The Problem w/Gene LeBell's Bruce Lee Stories, Secret Forms | The Kung Fu Genius Podcast #57
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- Опубликовано: 27 фев 2022
- Alright peeps, on this 57th episode of the Kung Fu Genius Podcast, the KFG (aka Alex Richter) will be answering all sorts of hot nonsense from RUclips! Lots of gems, lots of Francis Ngannous, lots of “Did Judo Gene REALLY teach Bruce Lee grappling?” Let’s get to it!
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Развлечения
Bruce learned Judo/Jujitsu from several individuals YEARS before he met Gene Lebell. This includes the likes of Jesse Glover, Wally Jay, and Hayward Nishioka. Jess was Lee's first student and he was an amateur Judo champion, Wally was an expert in Small Circle Jujitsu, and Hayward was a Gold Medalist in Judo at the 1967 Pan American Games.
I’m surprised Fook Yeung didn’t secretly teach Judo to Bruce as well. In a few years I’m sure we will hear that FY taught Bruce BJJ.
@@TheKungFuGenius Interestingly enough, I found an awesome video interview, where Jesse Glover himself is narrating in Seattle on foot, describing all the old locations he and Bruce used to train at. A lot of nuggets of info here, including Jesse meeting a masterful Choy Li Fut guy (Richard Leung), and Jesse does indeed state here that Fook Yeung taught Bruce "a lot of different things from a lot of different styles" (Jesse's words, at the 08:51 mark).
Jesse also talks about the gentleman (at the 10:26 mark) that taught Bruce the Northern Kungfu "Jeet Kune" form, which Jesse believes influenced Bruce's decision to call his style "Jeet Kune Do". He has some heartfelt words for Ed Hart at his grave as well, just an awesome video interview overall, highly recommend it, if you haven't seen it already.
Check it out here...
ruclips.net/video/10Rx98aG3P0/видео.html
Dan Inosanto in an interview mentioned that Gene Lebell was giving Bruce lessons.
@@nebulous8389 The issue is not whether Gene taught Bruce grappling moves. The issue is whether Bruce was introduced to grappling by Lebell. My original post (e.g.,Bruce learned Judo/Jujitsu from several individuals YEARS before he met Gene Lebell) lays out the reasons why the latter claim is erroneous.
@@TheKungFuGenius “During the time that I knew him, Bruce took things from many different places. A short time after I met him he introduced me to Fook Yueng. Fook was a cook at Ruby Chow’s. He was the man who drove to SF and brought Bruce to Seattle. Fook was a good friend of Bruce’s father and earlier in his life he did Chinese opera. He was with several different ones and each one had a Gung Fu master who forced the people to learn his style. Fook learned many styles and he taught parts of them to Bruce. He even taught me some of the material that he knew.” -Jesse R. Glover
I think it’s so beautiful that so many people continue to spread the truth about this man. It’s one of the highest honors to Bruce Lee and I am sure wherever he is he is so appreciative to all of these people.
The fact that some people who think that Bruce Lee was just an actor and did not know martial arts just blows my mind. I do believe everyone was skilled in their respective fields but I also believe a lot of martial artists were a little jealous of Bruce Lee’s spotlight. I mean Bruce is still a household name even today. I believe a lot of other martial artists embellished on their skills and encounters to boost their image.
True. The main reason for this are the lies from so called friends of his like Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, Gene LeBell and others. Lewis came back to the reality in the final years of his life, but Norris and LeBell to this day make these false claims etc. Fact is they all were quiet as a church mouse on sunday during the time Lee was alive. This should give you a hint how the reality looks.
Subed! Awesome content man. Something to aspire to for sure.
Welcome aboard!
Man, this needs to definitely be shared. Joe Rogan touts that Gene LeBell story about him giving Bruce an airplane spin as if it's true. I'm glad you tackled this story, and I'm glad to hear that Gene's stories about Bruce are B.S. Another great episode! Thanks again for these videos! I really enjoy them!
Thank you!
Yup and Rogan thought Ronda Rousey was the next coming of Christ. He's definitely the be all and end all of martial arts discussion.
@mig1017 Rogan seems to not do a whole lot of fact checking.
I think that LaBelle and Savage fought in either 63 or 65, if I remember correctly.
Gene is a cool guy. So many people forget that he is literally the embodiment of the pro wrestling business from a bygone era. This helped him become a stuntman, as well as a world class judoka. His family was in the wrestling/grappling business years prior to Gene's rise to fame.
The Inoki/Ali fight was 76, methinks.
As always, great stuff, guys. Glad I found this channel. It has definitely lit a fire under my ass to start accomplishing my own goals and podcast. Keep up the excellent work .
I think you are right!
His Mother owned and managed the Olympic Auiditorium here in L.A.. The birthplace to Pro Wrestling and boxing for the area. Gene, at a very early age studided with CCW greats, Karl Gotch and others. Learned boxing, etc. IF Gene got a hold of Bruce, then it was over! He says that when Bruce asked to be put down, Gene said "No" you're gonna kick my butt! All we know today are stories about stories. Bruce has been dead for 48 yrs now, yet still new stories arise. Greatest Martial Artists ever? Who knows. Greatest fighter ever...absolutely not.
@@michaelfarar4232 definitely agree.... however I'm a little more inclined to believe he was....at that time....in the upper echelon of martial artists in regards to ability and actual toughness. I think he can be just as easily underestimated now as easily as he is overestimated.
Gene's book, The Godfather of Grappling, is a helluva read. His background is amazing, and the people he trained with definitely helped him become the legend he is now.
@@fletchkeilman2205 At that time, Yes, I agree, that Gene was one of the best grapplers, and his talents were underestimated. Bruce, Joe Rogan, Chuck Norris, etc ALL said he had the strength of a Gorilla. To be a American Judoka and the first to beat the best in Japan, says a lot, and the same goes for two students; Ronda Rousey, and her mother, the first white woman to win in Japan. I'm going to look up that book. I might suggest a video to you, that being "CHOKE" on Rickson Gracie. I've met Gene, Rickson, other Gracies, and students of Genes. Like the proverbial; who would win in a fight Ali or Tyson? Gene vs Rickson in their prime is right up there. Respect to both, as well as Bruce, and hundreds of others. Gene is a true legend!
All respect due, in his era, Gene LeBell was only US level and far from World class level of his era : Wim Ruska, Anton Geesink, Jon Bluming, Masahiko Kimura, etc,
I have no idea about what specifically happened regarding Bruce Lee and Gene’s initial meeting, and no skin in the game. But I do know that Gene is known for constantly cracking jokes and messing with people. So, this business about “I was brought in to teach him a lesson” may have been intended as a joke. I can picture that, given Bruce’s reputation as a skilled martial artist. Gene also horses around and lot, and might have grabbed Bruce and hoisted him into the air. Again, totally insignificant. I can picture Bruce saying “put me down”, and so on. After Bruce’s problems with working out how to do movie martial arts and work better with stunt men, they might have asked Gene, as a martial artist and stunt man, to come and smooth things over and welcome Bruce to the club. I would suggest that people are making too much out of nothing.
Yp - everyone was joking around … the guy who spoke to Gene to tease Bruce - Gene teasing Bruce ( hosting him up etc ).. all fun
BL withholding knowledge from students wouldnt be surprising. Inosanto has confirmed this in an interview.
There is an interview with the late Van Williams (Britt Reid/Green Hornet) on RUclips who confirms that Bruce Lee did annoy stuntmen and the stunt coordinator in the early episodes of The Green Hornet by making unnecessary contact with stuntmen during fight scenes. In the interview, Williams simply attributes this to Lee's natural enthusiasm combined with a lack of experience doing fight scenes. Remember, Lee's previous experience in acting was as child to teen actor in Hong Kong on dramatic shows.
And as many people take umbrage to Tarantino's less than flattering portrayal of Lee in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Williams goes on to tell a story (pre Tarantino's movie) to confirm that Lee had moments of stubbornness and overconfidence on The Green Hornet and was humbled on one contentious incident when, as a last straw, the frustrated stunt coordinator and producers of the show gave Lee full reigns to choreograph and film the fight scenes for one of the episodes. Lee was highly disappointed and embarrassed - to the point of fuming - after he saw the rushes of what was filmed and was more cooperative as a result.
Yet it doesnt justify Tarantinos potrayal, not even a bit! Williams story contradicts Tarantinos version completely. You pointed out correctly what Williams said, but Tarantino told Joe Rogan Lee did it because he wanted to hurt the american stuntmen, had no respect for them and disliked them. And when you read the novel to this movie where Tarantino made the quote "Bruce Lee was like Charles Manson" you can see he is only interested in mocking Lee and nothing else. That quote alone is such an incredible statement. But yeah, he is a great director but as a human being not as great. A guy who defends child molester and rapists should be carefull in judging other people, be it Lee or even you and me.
@@chrisbach1533 Agreed - shocking how a jerk who defends child molesters is still allowed to roam hollywood!
Wow, great topic. I took martial arts in LA since 1980. Always love hearing about the great Gene
Great episode and great to hear the clarification of the ongoing Bruce Lee tales told by so many. So many stories and riffs on an artist that left this rock way too early -- how so many focus on the wrong details from his martial arts to his films. How easy to attack a great figure that is no longer with us, I equate it to stating one beat up the Wing Chun dummy that is static and stationary and the fight wasn't even close! The ever-evolving art known Jeet Kune Do was not a completed system, let alone a structured one where authorities claim it is This or That... blah blah blah, those are the funniest stories to me, as I can only continue to train with the inspiration that was left and gifted to me as the catalyst of my interpretation of the mind-body expression. Whether that interpretation is in form of sparring; training; self-defense; or combative sports realm, all are different and unique in their own right, for they are all very specific situations.
This brings me to give kudos again to The Kung Fu Genius, for you have mentioned many times the intricacies of sparring/training where you select one practitioner as Wing Chun and the other as the aggressor representing different styles of ways of attacks - Bravo. I also agree is the most conducive for the defender to properly learn self-defense(offense) skills as opposed to each side on the same agenda and style. In my personal experience, I have learned better reactionary skills on defense when challenged by different styles and rhythms coming at me and with each side having their defined purpose versus 2 dancing around to score or attach each other. Even the game of life has a defined side on the attack field and one side opens.
Thanks again for the great content and for sharing the knowledge as always. I do have a question for you, have you ever trained for an extended time in Jeet Kune Do? If so, with whom? If not, what is the reason? It would be interesting to know and always respect your choices. Thanks KFG.
Great comment and great question!
I love when my Bruce lee sources talk about Bruce's life and they all connect together. If I remember correctly Tom Bleecker helped Bruce get the apartment at the Barrington plaze, Bruce paid with "Script", which gave him a big discount on his rent. Tom goes into how he got him in, about Bert Ward living there, how Bruce move to a big apartment on the same floor. Tom also tells a scary story about Branden Lee when he was a baby.
ruclips.net/video/a3Xl1_e7E9Y/видео.html
Here's my understanding about the Green Hornet stuff. Bruce didn't know how perspective worked in front of the camera. He didn't understand that if you position the camera at a certain angle, it looks like you make contact with a punch,...even though you're like 3 feet from the person. Bruce hit stuntmen on accident because he wanted his fight scenes to look real on the set. Apparently Bruce (being stubborn because he's a martial artist) didn't like to be told how a "film fight" works and about camera angles. Bennie E. Dobbins was Van Williams stuntman and fight coordinator of the Green Hornet. Bennie and Bruce would get into heated arguments about how things work on a film studio. Even to the point that Van had to get in between them to keep them from fighting each other. Bennie came up with an idea about letting Bruce be the stunt coordinator for one of the scenes. Letting him setup and film a scene the way he wants. This way they could show him how it looks doing it his way. Bruce did his scene and the next day they took Bruce to go see the "dailies" (the raw, unedited footage shot during filming) The scene Bruce did was terrible. Even one of the people watching his footage started LOL. Bruce got pissed off and stayed in his dressing room for 2 hours. Bruce finally came out and agree that he didn't know what he was doing. This is probably one of the few times that Bruce was humbled.
ruclips.net/video/GCQIp4s-P-8/видео.html
Bruce was known for throwing punches at people and getting as close as he could (even slightly touching them) to their body or face. Like he does here
ruclips.net/video/k2BKNDc48N4/видео.html
I use to do this when I was young. It's really just to show off. (Thank Bruce for that) I would back fist to someone's face as fast and as close as I could get. Even though I was pretty good at it, I still managed to get a couple of accidental hits on people. After hitting my sister (not full force) on her cheek, I stop doing it. Bruce trying to do this on a studio set with moving stuntmen....I don't care how good you are, you're going to hit someone. You don't know how people are going to react.
My belief is that Gene LeBell was brought onto the set prior to Bruce being allowed to film a scene. Gene was not only a stuntman (Which they needed because Bruce kept hitting stuntmen on accident) but also because he's a martial artist. Gene being a stuntmen knew how to throw a punch in front of the camera. I think they were hoping that Bruce and Gene would bound over the fact that they were both martial artist and that Gene would be able to teach Bruce about film fighting and camera angles. I don't think Gene was able to convince Bruce.
Which led to Bruce being allowed to film a scene. Let's make this clear, Bruce Lee took care of his stuntmen. Like KFG said Bruce made sure the stuntmen ate good and got paid. He would hangout with them during takes. I think it was his way of saying sorry for hitting the stuntmen on the set of the Green Hornet. He took care of them. Bruce could have been a bully but he wasn't. Bruce just didn't understand that his martial arts didn't work the same way that scene fighting does. If he was a dick to stuntmen on the Green Hornet, that would have carry over to the rest of his films but everything I've read up on says Bruce took care of his stuntmen. Which I believe was because he felt guilty about hitting so many stuntmen on the set of the Green Hornet. I've never heard of one stuntmen that Bruce has hit, complain about how Bruce was a dick to them on the Green Hornet. If he hit them, I'm sure Bruce was like "Oh crap I'm sorry!" He show concern for them after he made contact. I believe this to be true because of how Jackie Chan talks about how Bruce helped him up and asked him how he was after performing a stunt on the Fist of Fury
ruclips.net/video/ViYOLHPijmA/видео.html
and how Bruce reacted to hitting Jackie on the set of Enter the Dragon
ruclips.net/video/ViYOLHPijmA/видео.html
At the end of the day KFG, people are going to believe what they want. I'm just happy that what I've research on Bruce all lines up with each other. It's not 100% but it all adds up for me. Which is good so when people like Tarantino say things like Bruce didn't like American stuntmen, I can say bullshit! Keep up the good work KFG crew.
Scrip
@@alfredleung3738 my bad.......type it out in a hurry.....lol
Great post good sir.
@@AztecUnshaven thank you
Another cracking episode delivered.The high standards continue Mr KFG.
Who would I believe? Quentin (I make the same movie and just change the title) Tarantino, or the stunt men who actually worked with Bruce? As said here Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung and other stuntmen loved Bruce and respected him. The point about how crazy it would be to get someone to 'teach the co-star a lesson' is a brilliant point.
As for LaBelle, I have heard him in other interviews and he never mentions this account. Without Bruce here to defend this story, its a pretty low claim to make. As Judge Judy is always saying, 'If it doesn't make sense, it's not true.'
Great podcast again Sifu Alex! There is something else about LeBell: Yes we know what a fish Seagal is, and yes we know he lied many times, but there were indeed some people who wanted to find out if LeBell actually has a black belt in the original japanese Jūdō.
They checked out any Kōdōkan, Nippon Budōkan, Judokai etc. and couldnt find one black belt. The Kōdōkan is the headquater of the world wide Jūdō community, and any black belt is listed there.
LeBells Wiki article list him as:
10th degree red belt in Judo
9th degree black belt in Jujutsu
10th degree black belt in Kyokushin Budokai
Kyokoshin Budokai is the style which was founded by dutch Jon Bluming.
I have no doubts LeBells 10th degree in Kyokushin Budokai is legit, and i dont know if his 9th degree black belt in Jujitsu is legit.
But is 10th degree red belt (highest rank) in Jūdō is very sceptical!
Notice:
Jūdō = the original japanese writing when romanized to western alphabet, founded by Kano Jigoro
Judo = western version, but not the original style which was founded by Kano Jigoro.
So it can be LeBell only has a 10th degree red belt in american Judo, but not in the original art from Japan named Jūdō.
And this would be very cheap since his nickname is Judo Gene LeBell. It would be a total gag if he never studied Jūdō but calls himself Judo Gene.
But since he told so many stories from which many are not true, i woudnt be surprised.
Go here on YT for Steven Seagal Bruce Lee Haters and you gonna find a video when Steven talks about Tarantino and LeBell. And he pointed out LeBell made his entire career in lying about who he beat up.
PS: Because of some unknown reasons i cant write replies here on RUclips anymore, only single comments. If someone should answer to my post, check out the „newst comments“ if i wrote you an answer there. Thx.
Anything coming from seagal is probably bull . Gene is legit
It helps in your "investigation" if any of you clowns knew what you were talking about or anything about Judo for that matter. The Kodokan isn't the governing body of judo where there is a record of every person who holds Yudansha Rank in Judo.....and WTF is "the original Japanese Jūdō" ? ...and who is "they"? I swear...I don't know who is worse....the Steven Seagal/Aikikdo cultists/weebos or the Bruce cultists and fanbois? It's really pathetic if no one has told you yet.
Wow thanks for sharing!
Sure Alex Chan, no problem. :)
never get tired of hearing about bruce lee.
Man this is a good one.
I really like your channel. I trained Wing Chun years ago under Sifu Brian Edwards (disciple of Duncan Leung). Good times. Now I live in Brazil and train/compete in BJJ. Keep up the great work my friend.
Greetings KFG. Much appreciate your podcast and especially how you approach analyzing controversies. I always took Gene LeBelles accounts as true but that was before ever knowing other pieces of evidence.
Thank you!
I remember in October 1969, in Black Belt magazine it said, it’s hoaxed up a bit for the dramatic effect, but let no one fool you, he’s a top notched expert in this ancient Chinese Art
Interesting. But hasn't Dan Inosanto confirmed that Bruce trained with/learned from Gene? I don't recall which book or magazine it was in but I do remember Dan saying that he could sometimes tell when Bruce had recently worked out with Gene because Bruce would want to work on grappling and/or submission techniques with Dan kind of out of the blue. I believe the late Larry Hartsell also mentioned Bruce's having trained with the LeBell, & both of those gentlemen would also train with Gene & his people in the decades after Bruce's passing. I would also be curious as to who introduced Chuck Norris to LeBell who apparently started training with Gene in the 60s, too. Did Bruce tell Chuck about Gene? Maybe.
I do think it's kind of difficult to judge how much of what LeBell says is the absolute, just the facts, miss, truth, because, as you mentioned, Gene is a storyteller, he seems to enjoy entertaining through humorous embellishment, like any good pro wrestler would. As for Bruce's having trained with Gene privately, I don't find that too hard to believe, by the time Bruce would've been training with Gene Bruce seemed to want to be seen as a "master", would he have wanted to be seen as anyone's "student" at that point?
As for Gene's work on The Green Hornet, I recorded the entire series probably 15 years ago off some cable channel, I recall about three scenes Gene was in from at least two episodes, IMBD isn't, as you noted, always 100% accurate.
Working out does t mean being g his teacher and they miss worked fight choreograph together for green hornet. And bruce lee learned more grappling from Olympian Japanese judo guy I forgot his name and a guy from Seattle who was judo not to mention Jesse glover wand he learned from wally Jay. Judo gene I love bit he sensationalized things alot he's from pro wrestling background
Bruce had a temper !!! And was well cardio fit !! And good at observation and initiative and if anybody had challenged him Bruce was all in WITH NO RULES!!
Bruce Lee would have tore Brad Pitt up. I really get disgusted with all these people who have negative shit to say about Bruce, 50 years after Bruce’s passing. Let the man rest in peace! Great vid, thank you. Peace.
With regards to the Green Hornet stuntmen, I think people forget, this was the 1960s. Bruce a small unknown Chinese, 25/26 years old in Hollywood trying to get a footing in the business and of course gain some respect with the big burly stunt men. He would absolutely have to prove himself in some way. Sometimes you can't talk your way into getting respect.
Easy for us to comment now in this modern era. Times were different back then. Still I believe Bruce was respectful if not cocky/confident, but he needed to be with what he was up against. And we are the beneficiaries of his efforts. More than anyone else he introduced Martial arts on a worldwide scale. And here we are still talking about him. That's the lasting impact he has had.
Regarding shoes for gongfu training; I like wrestling shoes. They are designed for use on wrestling mats, so they work fine on a martial arts mat. They are OK on a cement, tile or hardwood floor (as long as it is not waxed) but the soles will wear out faster than on a mat. As much as I'd like to take credit for the idea, I got it from my Kenpo teacher.
Great Podcast! BTW-Love those V Neck Tees you and Dre are wearing in this vid-where can I purchase one, if possible? Thanks in advance. 🤙
Great episode. Your discussion on TV and movie fight choreography was on point. It's not about the punch, but how you sell the punch. Your thoughts on Gene LeBell are insightful as well. He's a badass, no doubt, but maybe he embellished some details with his meeting with Bruce. Finally, winced a bit when you talked about Iron Fist. You echoed what Brett Chan, the stunt coordinator, and Lewis Tan, implied about the Iron Fist actor, that he was lazy and didn't commit to his training. And it showed. Ugh. One of the best martial artists in the Marvel Universe reduced to that. Very cool that you were contacted about being an instructor for a Netflix show. Maybe we'll get to see you on Cobra Kai with your ninja outfit from the 80s :) ! A great podcast, Sifu Alex!
Great show and subject matter
Great Gene Lebell episode. Could you discuss the veracity of the Ng Mui origin story of Wing Chun? How important was the Red Boat Opera in the development of WC/WT/VT?
Sharing this episode on my page... Maverick’s martial arts media... brb...
Thank you!
Gotta agree with you Alex, no doubt Judo Gene is one tough guy, without a doubt!
Thanks
Excellent podcast. Please consider having Dan Inosanto on your podcast. He is in his mid 80's so it would be nice to hear his take on the Bruce Lee story.
Many have tried and many have died trying to get through the iron wall that is is wife
@@TheKungFuGenius On an unrelated side note, still hoping for the Sifu Carl Albright interview soon good sir! Much respect.
You Make Sense To Me Kung Fu Genius, Great Show!!!
Thank you!
"I have more in common with some of the other Hong Kong lineages than I do with WT" couple days ago you asked if you were to have a private Q&a with the KFG what would our questions be. I think I just found one of those questions.
Bruce as you know was such a kind open hearted person who was never disrespectful to anyone but he was also outspoken and strong minded especially in the area of fighting. So this can push a lot of buttons and Bruce had a childish temper but he was always honest and holding nothing back how one wants to take it is up to them butI love it. Talk about freedom. Also Gene training him for year doesn’t sound right because Bruce would pick things up quick so I don’t see why he would need a year.
Another great episode. I’m really glad you addressed a lot of the good and bad about Gene Lebell.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great Episode again. Hope Gene will come to your show. 👏👏👏
Haha me too
Excellent explanation of what the great Terrantino took and twisted up into his revisionist histories. Keep in mind this is the same man who blew up Hitler to Smithereens in a theatre. Same type of stretching.
Thanks, I think you're right.
I don’t know if I’m right, but there was definitely more to the story than had previously been let out.
4:40 “He loves the long pole” 😂💥
Ask Gene LeBelle to fireman’s carry you to the 10 ft high door, lol
For a Bruce /green Hornet freak like me I loved it... but wasn't something new but it was good to get the truth on the story .wish I could read those day scribbles from Bruce when he did the hornet ...like did he knew that van got so much more for the show..
Did you see that You tube vid of Van Williams talking about Bruce Lee on set how he would kick peoples ears on set and throwing punches and other kicks, really a good vid.
Question[s] for a future episode:
Hello KFG, Dre and Andrew,
On the documentary ‘Bruce Lee: The Legend’ there is a segment on Bruce learning a style of Kung Fu from Siu Hon Sung. To paraphrase: Siu stated that Bruce mastered his forms in just 3 days where it takes most people weeks to just learn the basic forms.
What style was that Kung Fu called, how well do you think it works in self defense and do you think Bruce kept up with it or discarded it later on?
Thank you
Great question!
Great to hear your thoughts on Gene Lebelle!
Question for a future episode:
What are your thoughts on Roberto Duran's "Sticky hands" in-fighting boxing style and drills in comparison to Wing Chun trapping?
ruclips.net/video/_GSw-1Weuzo/видео.html
Great question!
I know that Dan Inosanto said that in the early years, Bruce Lee was very cocky, I dont know how much of that is true, but I don't think Dan Inosanto would lie.
Mando is short for Armando. That was actually a lucha libre legend Mando Guerrero of the famous Guerrero pro wrestling family. One can't forget that there are some pro wrestlers that are real 'shooters' and can actually stretch people in real life...
But yes Judo Gene is a consummate entertainer, who can hurt you for real
I like it when they change guest's you have to slow the video to see it in slow mo
And more about it: I posted this below the clip from Prinze jr, since there are guys who believe his version but ignore some important cirmustances. I think this is maybe interesting for your readers:
This movie with the so called choke out was shot in 1990. Freddie was 13/14 years old back then. Conrad Palmissano was the stunt chief, a Vietnam veteran who was 45/46 years old in 1990. Steven Lambert was also a stuntman and 35/36 years old.
Of course its up to you who you want to believe, a 13/14 yrs old teeny who was never seen by anyone on the set, or the 45/46 yrs old stuntchief of that movie and one of the stuntmen who was 35/36.
Both man Palmissano and Lambert stated it never happened. Nobody was choked out.
PS:
And Freddie had a family relation to the late Point Karate Champion Bob Wall, who died earlier this year. Bob was Freddies Godfather. Gene and Bob were good friends and training partners, and Bob was one of the forerunners who repeated this Steven chokeout story over and over again. So it get it why Freddie has the motivation to continue with the story after his godfather died, especially since in 2021 two videos surfaced by Lambert and Palmissano who put that story to rest and esposed it as fake.
PSS:
Hollwood has become a place for liars and pretenders nowadays! A director like Quentin Tarantino can write a fictinal novel about his movie "Once Upon A Time In Hollywood", and can bring the quote in this book "Bruce Lee was like Charles Manson", that shows you what did happen with Hollywood. Quentin defends child molsters ans rapists like Harvey Weinstein, but he says Bruce was like Charlie. And noone from Hollywood opens his mouth about this. It seems like they all have a place for swines like guys like Weinstein and others.
And Sifu Alex: I saw on LeBells Wiki page Viking Samurai is listed as source there. I am active on Wiki too and my changes and work on certain article usually get positive feedback. I think some of your videos are good sources too, especially this one about LeBells story with Lee. I think i gonna try to share it there too as source. Of course i dont know if the Wikipedians will take it since you werent actually there, while Conrad Palmissano was there when this LeBell Seagal thing did happen. But i maybe give it a try since your points here are very well researched and detailed. In no other place, be it a book, article or video, it is mentioned for example LeBell was only in one episode, and it makes logially no sense why Dobbins would wait 10 Episodes to let Lee hurt the stuntmen, and then calling LeBell for help. In 10 Episodes many stuntmen would have quit. And you can be sure there would be stuntmen from back then who would have told the story Lee did hurt them and they quit, simply because he became such a big name later on. And of course to debunk Tarantino s claim Lee liked to hurt them.
hey love the podcast! Just a point about Once upon a time in Holluwood. I was under the impression that the Brad Pitt part was based on Hal Needham from Smokey and the Bandit fame.???
Wonder how much Bruce spoke of of Larry Hartsell in the "Daytimer"? In '66 or '67 when Bruce visited Seattle I met with him to see what new moves he might have as Linda's mother's house was close to my parents and Bruce would always go over everything new... as I was one of his first "child" students. Blew me away the armbars and rear choke holds he had incorporated into this new style he was developing ...as all I knew was the old early '60's Wing Chun he was teaching.. Always was waiting for him to return cuz it was so mesmerizing ... as I had more questions than ever. Then years later I saw Hartsell's book, and I knew that Hartsell was probably a key source of some of those armbar moves. Believe I made two brief trips to LA and saw Bruce for one day each... '69 being the last one. Blew me away too that he mentioned my visit in his "Daytimer" too. Always wondered about the Gene LeBell connection though. I know Bruce supposedly went to the "Stuntman's Ball" around that time as well.
I would think Danny Inosanto as a former "stuntman" (or so I heard)... as well ..would know all the inside story too....ruclips.net/video/bHDDd07n4Ao/видео.html
Do you have a name?
@@TheKungFuGenius ..Roger Kay (Loo); 1969 Daytimer. ...(Friday July 4, 1969) ...ruclips.net/video/J5jRg7yq5Sg/видео.html
Supposedly too; ...on July 30, 1968, Bruce Lee made an entry into his diary/daytimer - "hurt upperback (via BL FB site). I actually thought he had hurt his back in '67 when allegedly a box fell on him during filming the "Green Hornet" series. '70 was however the worst one ... reportedly being told he could never practice martial arts again.
I love Judo, and I will always appreciate Gene's contributions to grappling and Hayastan Academy. That being said though...
Old man Gene and Bob Wall were masterful promoters of ridiculous claims (Gene loved selling his "toughest man alive" image). A lot of Gene fanboys are most likely gonna rage ("he taught Bruce Lee Judo bro! Joe Rogan told me and he never lies!") after seeing this one lol.
Hopefully, that’s how videos get views!
@@TheKungFuGenius
Have you considered going on the Joe Rogan show ?
My good friend David Tice who certified Sifu Paul Vunak In-N-Out of our jkd for grappling science was taught by Judo Gene Labelle
Looking forward to this! Gonna post another string of questions for future episodes:
1) I often see people on social media trashing certain technique demonstrations, saying they aren't realistic or practical. Usually it's something ridiculous, but at the same time, there are lots of legitimate techniques that take lots of training to be able to apply. How does one know the difference between a technique not working in application, versus you simply not being able to do the technique, especially when they're coming from an outside perspective?
2) When I was a kid I briefly trained Hung Gar under a sifu who only had one arm. Do you have any thoughts on or experience with training students who have physical disabilities?
3) When I briefly trained Hung Gar as a kid, training the horse stance was heavily emphasized. It was brutal trying to sit in the stance for a long period of time. I know we have that deep horse stance with the long pole - but do you think there's value in WT practitioners training it before learning the pole?
I second question number 2.
I love point #1. It was well illlustrated in an old article i read from the early 1900s, in which a wrestler and judoka were interviewed. Long story short the judoka insisted that judo had many unique techniques and demonstrated them, while the wrestler contended that they existed in wrestling as well. However when the judoka demonstrated the armbar (or whatever the proper name is) the wrestler scoffed and said hed be surprised if anybody ever ended up in that position. Lo and behold, it is one of the few subs that is still used regularly in mma.
Very true 👍!! No secret form!! It is what It is and like you said it is what you can do with it!! YIP MAN ,certainly was legit 👌!! And is legit!!
11:00 NAPTIME.. me n Jackie throw this on when we wanna knock for a while. 😂lol. IM TOTALLY PLAYING. 😂no.. we watch it any chance we get. 😂just being funny.
The part that really makes me skeptical about the Gene LeBell story is that Bruce didn't end up in a serious and brutal fight with LeBell. I am reading Wrath of the Dragon by John Little and I know for a fact that if the Gene LeBell really grabbed BL and lifted BL on his back, Bruce would have tried to kill him no matter what. Bruce had enough self control to not react to people's words, but he was not capable of tolerating being touched. It makes no sense that after Gene put him down, Bruce didn't even attempt to attack him. There is simply no way Bruce was capable of tolerating that degree of humiliation and disrespect.
Maybe something happened but the story was severely distorted. Maybe some important information was left out.
@@bruhmoment3731 After watching a video from Viking Samurai with Hollywood stuntman George Pogacich again, i think i know now what s the true story about Lee and LeBell, or at least it makes the most sense from all: LeBell proved actually he was lying, because the real indicdent took place during filming "Ironside" and not "Green Hornet".
Pogacich has first hand informations about the Hollywood stunt scene since he is a well known stuntman, and he stated LeBell's original story was he took Lee over his shoulder while they were doing a stunt together, and then he refused to take Lee down again. Watch the two in "Ironside", there is actually a fight scene in which Gene's character "Karate student" takes Bruce's character "Leon Soo" over his shoulder, but Leon comes back to his feet and kicks Karate student to the floor.
This incident completely matches what Pogacich and LeBell described, but first of all it wasnt a fight, second it was done during filming a scene when Karate student had to take Leon Soo over his shoulder, and third it had nothing to do someone called up LeBell to teach Lee a lesson or what ever, that was all fabricated nonsesnse and lies by Mr. LeBell (RiP!).
The fact alone that LeBell stated it was during Green Hornet, when in fact it most probably was during Ironside, shows you Gene changed many things making him look like the guy who "beat" Bruce/Junfan Lee. And the reason why LeBell said it was Green Hornet is simple: Because Lee was there for nine months and 26 episodes, while Ironside he was only in 1 episode, so the story about: "The stuntchief called me (Gene) up to teach Bruce a lesson" wouldnt have worked. Lee's appearance in "Ironside" was only 2 minutes or so, and i am sure he filmed that scene in 1-2 days.
This sounds the most logical from all. And it's so cheap and laughable how people made it out like LeBell defeated Lee in a real fight or something. If a do a movie with Conor McGregor and the script says my character takes his character over his shoulder, of course he will let me take him over my shoulder because its the movie plot, and if i then make a joke and dont put him down again, then i can later claim "i defeated Conor McGregor in a fight. I took him over my shoulder and he couldnt do anything against it", of course only if all witnesses and he himself die before me.
That its at least likely the real thing did happen during Ironside, when video footage even proves Karate student (LeBell) took Leon Soo (Lee) over his shoulder. Here is the scene.ruclips.net/video/4Vuy2cEemJg/видео.html
Love the pod. It’s balanced and a sensible take on a lot of things Bruce. I’ve read everything and listened to all things Bruce. I find his life fascinating.
One thing I’ve never heard is where the cat noises (I’ll call them Kiai as I only have practiced Japanese arts and forgive me I don’t know the Chinese word) come from in the films. In the timeline and forgive my memory he was used a more traditional kiai in the Green Hornet and in the Big Boss, it really came in Fist of Fury then got amped up from there …
It was so distinctive I’m wondering if it was something that Bruce consciously cultivated as a method of making himself uniquely sellable? … well my opinion is that as there are other motifs and iconic things he used in his films. I’m just wondering is there a story or recall of him saying to anyone - “I’m going to do these sounds ? Kinda thing.
Just watching a KFG pod episode where you guys talk about this! The power of the universe 😀
Thank you!
Man!! KFG!! It looks like Bruce learned the long pole! But he did not. According to research!! That photo you showed him as a kid doing a long pole tq looks so Kool 👌. He was a very skinny kid!!
I agree the story of the fireman carry did not sound right!!! By the way I had almost all the judo tapes of gene lebell from panther videos production . It was ok !! But I find Brazilian jujitsu more effective!!
Great Episode, Judo Gene is truly a tough guy but his stories are questionable.
Mr. Gene lebell is a champion in his own ride but I believe he stretches the truth to his favor he wants to be recognized and I believe sometimes at other people expense
6:07 “There’s a time n a place for Judo”
Great episode. I always found Gene Lebell's story a bit odd. It's not that I don't think he had the ability to pick Bruce up in a fireman's carry, it's just that if he did do this to "teach Bruce a lesson" then I don't think Bruce would have hesitated in gouging one of Gene's eyes. As for him training Bruce in grappling for a year, I always wondered in all the thousands of photos of Bruce, I don't think I've seen one of them both hanging out together.
Look forward to the next episode.
Gene Lebell was a known to sweep BB Judo divisions in the 50s....so I am not sure where you are getting this idea that he would not have been able to do whatever he wanted to some actor he outweighed. You Bruce Lee Cultists are delusional.
@@thecollector6746 yeah I know what you mean. There certainly are some delusional Bruce Lee fans out there
Kfg great stuff,nice to listen to knowledge without thinking here we go again more untruths and hype,at end of the day gene knows to embellish with fun helps self promotion, ( Bruce lee could self promote slightly less with ego ,in most cenarios) but at end the day gene was a stuntman and made the stars look good ,Bruce definitely learned this from hornet era ,van Williams was more a friend to Bruce than everyone else on set ,
The shoe described for training with the suede sole sounds like my old bowling shoes when I was a teenager... except they had a hard rubber heal...hmm...anyway, train in all kinds of shoes, as when you are out and about, you aren't going to be able to pull a Billy Jack and hold up your hand to take off your boots and socks before you proceed to kick someone up the right side of their face.
Thanks for the tip
I believe the tv show he was on with Bruce as a judo guy was ironside? I have the episode.
I think you are right
If you want to know anything about Bruce Lee , ask Dan Inosanto
Exactly
There's a picture of Bruce Lee tossing someone? 😂🤣😂 Brit humour!
Hahaha, don't call him a tosser!
You guys have got to do a reaction video to the latest Beerdy video. Talking about Bruce Lee vs Muhammad Ali. Could be his worst yet. I only watch them for a laugh 😂
Where is the Kwoon?
Hi Alex great podcast glad you called. Gene and q t out , I am back training now all over covid and it me a while but did my first two hours training sessions on the weekend
I tried to be fair!
Hell No! Definitely not the Iron Fist from the Netflix series😂. The one in the comic book. Question, have you ever thought about doing more WT demos like you did before? Those were very good and I know if definitely help improve my Gan Sao/ Gan Da.
Certainly not “that “iron fist! To answer your query, I will never do some thing like teach techniques for free on the Internet again. The most thankless and masochistic thing you can do with your hard earned knowledge is give it away for free on the Internet.
@@TheKungFuGenius I totally understand. That is great advice to know and use as the Joker said in the Dark Knight “When you’re good at something never do it for free.”
What on earth happened at 52:28? Like out of the blue we’re talking to a new guy. 🤣
Dre needed to use the toilet (you can see in the outtakes at the end).
Gene LeBelle actually appeared in two Green Hornet episodes. I watched them all with interest in seeing LeBelle do stunts. Just wanted to clarify that.
Thanks
So or so: RiP Ivan Gene LeBell! He died yesterday at the age of 89. He was a tough guy and yes, he is a real legend! I dont take anything away from him, he was a true martial artist and no fake.
But sure he also lied a lot. His stories about taking Bruce Lee over his shoulder or beat the cr... out of him, or choking Steven Seagal out, or beating up American Football Legend Jim Brown, all of these stories have big holes. But yeah, i am very sure Bruce will forgive him that when they gonna meet again now. :D
So or so Gene is now united again with his good friend Bob Wall.
I was at a martial arts fest named Dragon Fest a decade ago and met Gene. Hes a funny old guy with so much life too him. He loved Bruce said he was a very nice man.
Barrington Plaza is still there and still a nice luxury condo building.
Yeah I looked it up, it still looks quite nice!
I was by his Bel Aire house about 3 years ago. I met his neighbor across the street. He took a photo of me in front of Bruce's house and told me some stories about how his kids used to play with Bruce's kids. The house was going up for sale at that time, too. A lot of houses in that neighborhood were being demolished and new houses built on the lot, but last time I checked his house was still there. That same day we drove by whereTarantino's crew were filming some scenes for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (the sequence where the Sharon Tate goes to see Wrecking Crew at a theater).
His got a never ending story.
I heard the story about Gene picking him up. And that Bruce, being a little hot headed, was getting pissed. And started yelling at Gene to put him down. Gene on the other hand, knowing how fast Bruce was, was a little concerned, that if he let him loose, that once free, Bruce might try to hurt him, so he refused to put him down. And held him, until Bruce promised not to take a swing at him, that's what I heard...
And you heard it from…
@@TheKungFuGenius Various people throughout my 56 years. But no one famous, or that you would know. Which isn't unusual really, since I just ran across you today..
Jack, i just saw your comment here. Sure nobody can say it for sure, but its always good if someone is a first hand witness. Gene told for decades he choked out Steven Seagal, but in 2021 this was debunked here on RUclips by two first hand witnesses, stuntman Steven Lambert and stunt chief Conrad Palmissano. Gene never choked Steven out, but this fake story flew around any corner and even some random people believe it.
Even the godchild of the late Karate Champ Bob Wall "O Harra from Ente The Dragon", actor Freddie Prinze jr. just repeated the story again after it was debunked by two first hand witnesses. This just underlines if a lie is in the world its difficult to get rid of it again.
To me its important not one person from the actual Green Hornet crew ever spokea bout it, not Van Williams, not Wende Wagner, not stunt chief Bennie E. Dobbins, nobody. An incident like that would have been noticed by leading actors or even the stunt chief (since Gene was a stuntman), but the fact that nobody ever mentioned it, i would put my money it was an other of Genes lies.
He also claimed once he beat up Football Legend Jim Brown, who was a friend of Muhammad Ali and Martin Luther King jr.. Ali himself said Brown was one of the toughest men he d ever met, and since there are not witnesses too, i also doubt Gene ever beat Brown up.
Bob Wall even went so far at one point when he was older, that he stated Gene had beat Ali and Antonio Inoki up, and this was the reason why they chosed him as referee for their match. Thats utter nonsense.
You dont have to like Seagal, but he said once Gene made his whole career in lying about who he beat up. And at least with Steven himself, but also most probably Bruce and Brown, this statement is somehow true.
Doesnt mean Gene wasnt a tough guy, of course he was! But his stories with Bruce, Brown and Steven seem to be made up, but they gave him a huge spotlight.
Sifu Larry mentioned that story in the 80 s it was all in fun
Thanks for the clarification on Bruce Lee great pod cast. With respect to Judo and the fire man's carry it is no longer used in contest you cannot place your hands below the belt while standing. In Judo the throw is called Kata garuma.
Ohhh Gene L. Is a Legend!!! The Segal story is Hilarious!!
He is definitely a legend who sometimes acts like a leg end.
Definitely ha ha
KFG I have a question 🙋♂️ Like you I’m a huge Bruce lee fan. Read all his books, magazine articles, documentaries, back catalogues etc. Iv gone down more rabbit holes about him , his students, fights in RL etc etc, having said all that, do you think his philosophy on fighting was partially marketing and self promotion? I have no doubt he related everything he did to fighting and martial arts but he was also a master self promoter. He realised that although he believed in his philosophy he soon realised it made him stand out from the “bullshit artists”. Long story short, how much vanity and marketing was behind his philosophy not withstanding he spoke wisdom and genuine fighting knowledge most of the time?
great question
@@TheKungFuGenius the podcast has become my weekly pleasure. It’s live most of the time around 11pm Irish time, so perfect for bedtime listening 🙏
Hope it doesn’t give you nightmares about hypothetical situations
@@TheKungFuGenius only nightmares about Steven segal going to the toilet 😂
Great episode 👏 👌 👍 the stunt men situation is spot on 💯%. Even in Enter the Dragon 🐉 it's known that Bruce paid the stunt men extra and made sure they ate well etc.. so that they could work harder and so on... Bruce was all about a action and was very close with the people that produced all the movements...
Well said
I really want to train in wing chun, but it's so damn expensive. $90.00 to $150.00 I my area. I know that on-line training is an option, but there would be neither pressure testing nor sparring.
So let me get this straight: an instructor has to dedicate his entire life to learning this martial art, undoubtedly countless trips for training, years of practice, years of study and introspection. Then that instructor has to open a school to give his hard fought and hard earned knowledge, give you all the sparring pressure testing, facilities, training equipment you need. And they have to do this for 90 bucks a month?
@The Kung Fu Genius OK, you make good point. Thank you, Sifu Alex.
Hallo pliss tjek out James demile true story about Bruce Lee Love from Mik Roy from Denmark
Bruce Lee took Judo under a guy name Chris Cato (Kato), a Japanese instructor, in Seattle after he left a short time living in San Francisco 1959.
Source?
Not Chris Cato (Kato), his name was Fred Sato, he was Jesse Glover's Judo Instructor.
Great episode Alex,I was listening to Joe Rogan podcast last year,and here was sayingGene DeBell gave him the grappling techniques too Bruce Lee,and said I if the got into a real fight,that Gene would crush him 9 times out of 10,again he wouldn't of touched Bruce Lee,he was just to fast,no one could touch him,listening to John little,real fight Bruce lee stories
I still wonder who is more famous posthumously, Bruce Lee or Steve McQueen. I never heard of Steve McQueen until I started reading John Little’s books about Bruce Lee in the 90s.
What about Dominic Izzo of Chicago Wing Chun? Is he legit ?
Are you planning on learning from him? Then check him out!
You said there's no evidence of Gene LaBell teaching Bruce Lee Judo Linda Lee Cadwell Bruce Lee's Widow mentioned in one of her books that she wrote about Bruce That Gene did teach him the finer points of Judo
I have read that as well, the problem is what is being discussed is always changing. If it was just a few fine points of Judo, that could’ve been discussed while on the set, but the claim here is that Gene was teaching him for nine months to a year for an hour a week at some location, no one has ever seen them at. The biggest skeptic about this is John Little, who worked with Linda Lee for 20 years. Not everything she said about her late husband is accurate, nor is it even written by her.
Sounds like that's where the bad back happened.
🤔
I like gene and his stories are really embellished but he would have gotten destroyed by Bruce. One dimension wont work. Jack of all trades master of none, is always better than a master of one. Gene couldnt get close enough to bruce to do the things that were said. Lebelle never did that to bruce. There was never talk about that except from lebelles camp. Nothing from anyone on the set. Great video, great evidence and facts .
I love martial arts
Me too!
Viking Samurai also had Conrad Palmisano on his podcast and he also stated LeBell didnt choke out Seagal. LeBells claims loose more and more credibility.
Agreed!
Something about Tarantino: I have no prove, but a martial artist from LA told me he met his dad Tony once. Tony told him his son Quentin changed negative in past years, and came in contact with strange people. Maybe some so called Bruce Lee friends were also among them and told Quentin some false and negative things about Bruce, and so he wanted to give Bruces name a damage as good as possible. Of course i cant confirm you if this story is true, but if so i think it would explain some things. I would never claim its the case but its definately possible.
So if the bruce lee story isnt true, and the steven seagal story isnt true, then the only thing about lebell that still makes lebell really famous to randos like me is his participation in the 'first mma match', which itself isnt even the first mma match, since people doing different martial arts have been beating on each other for forever. So the only thing left that separates lebell from seagal is that lebell is funny and seagal is a tool, but theyre both fill of bs? Jeez, celebrity blinds us to everything that matters.
Yo thanks for this. Can you talk to Mike Stone and Leo Fong. They were friends of Bruce and can talk about him as a friend and human being rather than idolizing him as a teacher or superstar. That is why I was not too disappointed on the infidelity or drug use. I recognize him as a human being as a 45 year old man. Also, what are your thoughts on former student James Demille?
Leo Fong just passed away.
I believe Mike Stone lives in a small village on Mindanao, Philippines. He has been there for years with wife (Filipina) and family.
@@TheKungFuGenius :(
bruce also trained with joon rhee privatley also fook yeung it was part of his journey
If not for Jhoon Rhee Bruce would have never seen a high kick - and if not for Fook Yeung, Bruce would not have known paak sau.
are you sure those crazy holds dont work and are not from catch wrestling
It wasn’t catch wrestling they were many nonsensical pro-wrestling holds. I have respect for catch wrestling, but a lot of the stuff in that video was nonsense… on purpose.
Hi Mr Kung Fu Genius, regarding the Bruce Lee death what do you think about this theory?
Using Electrical Muscle Stimulation
Lee also used electrical muscle stimulation to train his muscle which damaged his muscle at same time. This machine was brought from Japan and was banned later. It used high voltage to stimulate muscle which destroyed the balance between the nervous system and biological system. It can made Lee's muscle stronger in a short time but it did more damage inside Lee's body. Coincidentally, a actor named Yuan Jie also used this machine and also died without reasons one year after Lee's death.