How we recover mini split refrigerant back to the outdoor unit, same as how it shipped
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2022
- shop.airspool.com/ This video gives the HVAC pump down procedure. If you ever want to move (or recover, or restore, or reclaim or pull back) r410a refrigerant for a mini split back to the compressor (outdoor unit) for whatever reason (such as moving the unit or making a repair to the inside unit), follow this procedure. It's less than 30 seconds once you have your gauges and the correct hex wrench to close the valves on the outside unit. No vacuum pump need. No recovery machine is needed. The compressor does the work. Note the comments below for some additional explanation and hints based on questions others have had. Shoot us a 'thumbs up' and/or subscribe to this channel, Airspool, for solar air conditioning. If you need help with this procedure, post up to the comments section. #airspool
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Finally got it up and running. The only delays we had was because we realized we needed some extra parts (I’ll list that below) ruclips.net/user/postUgkxihMYiJNXcHdbH-7ihymsLz61l7jVyb5O . So we have a loft where our current hvac just couldn’t seem to keep cool during the summer. We have been using a window unit since we bought this house over 6 years ago (all the houses in this neighborhood were built in the 80’s and majority of the houses built like ours use a window unit). I hate window units because they are just so noisy and the one we had really only cools one side of the loft. I had contemplated upgrading our current HVAC, but with all the rising prices these days, it would take years before saving up enough to do that. With the advice of my father-in-law (used to run an HVAC business), he recommended we get an inverter instead. We thought we bought everything we needed, but there were just a few other parts we didn’t anticipate needing (which is what caused most of our delay). My friend and father-in-law did all the work to get it installed and running and now we have nice cool air circulating nicely throughout the entire loft. It is very quiet and even the outside unit is much quieter than our main HVAC unit. Saved ourselves thousands getting this.
Love it!
you should cut the power right after closing the second valve
This is a life saver, thank you!!!
Thanks for the video
Good video apart from the painful part of watching you use the Allen keys.
I spent a few years in middle management after 15+ years in the field; you can tell alot about an employee by how much they fumble with their tools and more importantly their PPE
Good job my friend 🎉👍
I've seen this king valve trick used on larger central units. I didn't know if it would work for mini-splits as well. Very useful tip. I was wondering if I'd have to shell out for a gas'n'go if my mini split ever had to come off the wall for siding repair/replacement.
I had no idea you could do that. I got one outdoor unit I want to move. The mount is not good but I was worried about the refrigerant lines. I will have to try this in the spring.
nice thank youuuuuu
Keep in mind units with inverter protection will trip an error when the pressure drops down pretty low, say 25-30 psi.
Will this affect this process? Or is there some additional that needs to be done to work around this error?
what we do in that case when the inverter protection trip an error around 25-30 psi?
What setting is the mini split on when u disconnect the ⁶ the ac setting or heating setting or do it matter ??
Yes, it certainly matters. It needs to be in the cooling mode. Thanks for this.
I have a pioneer 18k unit with a 40’ linset that I added additional r410a when installed. I want to move the unit to a different location because of a remodel. Will the unit only hold the amount for a 25’ linset when I pump it down or do I need to buy a tank to store the additional coolant?
Just do it when it's cool, and you should be good to have the accumulator and outdoor coil hold everything fine.
Hi, Can I use a digital micron gauge instead of the standard pressure gauge. If so, what reading should I expect from the micron valve (in microns). Thanks
www.convertunits.com/from/PSI/to/micron+mercury yes, take it down to 1000 microns.
Great advise ….thanks....What mode is this done in, Cooling or Heating mode?
Always in cooling mode.
Hi, Thank you for the video. Quick question, can I do this for a four zone heat-pump, there is only one line set (one high and one low) for all the zones flow. I assume I have to turn on all units for the vacuum process, and to turn off all units at the same time I will use the circuit breaker from the main supply. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you again.
Yes, and for the details, check some of the earlier comments from a year ago or something. There are some other people that also had multi-zone units with some other questions.
Great video, thanks!
I accidentally left a valve on my vacuum pump open when releasing refrigerant in the liquid line during setup, and lost a bunch of pressure. I tried running it anyway and the liquid line is icing. Think this will help, or do I need to just start over?
Many thanks!
It sounds like you really just need to add some refrigerant. No need to go through this procedure.
@@airspoolthanks for the reply! Made my day. I believe there is also a leak in the liquid line though. So I’m going to do this trick, change/fix the line, vacuum the lines again, then re release the refrigerant.
Does the unit need to be working for this to work or can it be vacuumed back with a pump. I have a new unit that I setup. And when I went to start it it is fulty so getting a replacement but it does not run it is possible to put the refrigerant back another way. Just trying to figure out how to remove the unit so I can swap out for the new one with out letting all the coolant out
Hi Grizzly, so the compressor didn't work at all? Are you sure it's not just some type of power issue? Anyway, This technique relies on a working compressor, so it won't work if the compressor is not working. An alternative would be to get a demo machine from Harbor Freight and an empty tank and transfer the refrigerant there.
I have a very practical question. When you are operating the vaccuumpump on the service port, the operation here suggests that the gas is not being 'sucked out' via the pump. How does the valve work on the servicepoint that prevents the gas being part of the vaccuum? Maybe I misunderstood the operation. Does the outdoor unit produce the vaccuum on itself by closing the liquid valve? Is there any refrigerant in the blue line or is this impossible because the outdoor unit creates the vacuum?
Hi Sinkie, actually, the 'vacuum' is the condenser itself. So, the condenser pumps the refrigerant back into the unit. No external vacuum pump is needed. But, you do need the pressure gauge on the service port (which is connected to the low-pressure side, usually on the back side of the top of the two gas valves) to monitor that the compressor has done its job. So, by closing the high-side refrigerant port/valve first, no more refrigerant can get to the indoor unit. Meanwhile, the low-pressure port is still open, coming from the indoor unit, so, all of the refrigerant is being sucked back into the outdoor unit. Once that all is back in there, you'll see that there's no more pressure on that low side port from your gauge. Then, make sure to TURN OFF THE UNIT IMMEDIATELY. Todd had the remote in his hand, but another user, YoPeace, pointed out that it was still turned on. So, yes, turn the unit off once all the refrigerant is back in the unit.
@@airspool Thanks!
@@airspoolhow do you pump a 4 casket style or multi head? Close 4 liquid ports and 3 suction ports and run down to 5 psi and close the 4th one down?
Yes, open all liquid and gas ports, then close all of the suction ports. Close the gas port with the manifold gauge hooked to it last.
If u suspect air or moisture in your mini split lines from not properly being vacuumed how do u correct that does the R-410 have to be completely changed or what do u do ?
It sounds like the refrigerant is already flowing through the unit. If that's the case, you need an empty tank and what's called a 'recovery machine' to pump the refrigerant and contaminants into the tank. You can get one of those from Harbor Freight for like a $100 or less. If the refrigerant is not in the machine yet, then it's easy. You just need to vacuum the line set before you release the refrigerant as normal. Give us a call If you need any more help.
@@airspool ok thanks yes it's already flowing through the machine it seemed to be acting like is supposed to now it's brand new but I know it wasn't vacuumed I just bleed the lines and let all the air out is much that would come out I didn't know about the vacuuming part
Nice vid. Just a practical question. Did you purge the blue hose and manifold before evacuation ?
Hi Misenko, yes, to purge the air out of the blue gauge hose, screw it onto the service port of the unit and then unscrew it for maybe 1/2 second where it attaches to the gauges. This of course is done when the unit is turned offer. The pressure of the refrigerant will force the air out. Then, when the unit is turned back on, refrigerant is sucked back into the the outside unit from both the blue hose and the rest of the system.
@@airspool Thanks for reply. Does the unit need to be turned off before attaching a hose to service port? I’ve read thst it is better to connect while the system is running since there is lower pressure on suction line so less refrigerant leak during attachment.
Michal, sorry about the delay. This one got by us until now. Yes, right, you can connect it when it's running, and will be easier because less pressure.
@@airspool No problem, thanks for the response.
So to purge the blue line you simply hook the hose up the service port while the ac is running for a couple second then disconnect it? Or do you leave it on the service port an disconnect the blue line at the gauge?
If you do this step and then want to reinstall it let's say another part of the house do you need to do the whole vacum thing with a machine?Or can you just wire it up and turn it on?
Well, it sounds like the refrigerant lines are going to be disconnected from the unit, in which case the vacuum would be lost in the lines, in which case you would need to vacuum again. But if you can somehow move the units of the line set is connected, you be okay in theory. By the way, why do my upstairs neighbors always vacuum after midnight?
I have a senville with multiple indoor units do i have to do this with each indoor unit?
Hi, if these are all on the same circuit, you should just be able to evacuate from the condenser the same way. All the refrigerant will come back to the outside unit in the same way whether there is one unit or multiple units. Larger vrf systems may be her different? I'm not sure on that.
I bought a single manifold gauge. Do I plug or seal off the inlet that’s not being used for this?
A single manifold set would only have one port that should be controlled by the valves at at the ends, as long as those valves are closed , shouldn't need to cap anything as the low side hose will go straight to the low side gauge.
what if you had to add refrigerant to the line set? will it hold the additional refrigerant that was added?
Yes. There's room in the coil there and in the compressor and the accumulator for whatever line length the unit is rated.
I have a Daikin 4 ton multi port with 2 indoor units. 1 indoor unit cools great. The other does not. I think I had a leak and may have low refrigerant. Can I use this process in your video or do I need to recover and vac the system?
Would need to turn both zones on cooling, then follow the steps, both valves need to be closed on the high side , the when at 0 on the low side. There are some other comments further down in this list, too, that talk about multi-zone.
There is an electric solinoid valve for that circuit that opens on demand. However. The whole system would be affected when both zones are calling for cooling, not just one. We would almost be leaning towards a wiring issue that isn't opening the second zone valve.
Can’t get anyone way out here to do this work so I’m installing a Mr Kool mini split heat pump head unit to an existing Me Kool mini split. The outside unit is a tad different from the one in your video. Is the process basically the same in order to replace head unit? Thanks
Yogi, yes, should be about the same.
ok so on centrel air i push the start silinoid from out side then let go whrn done how do i kick the compressor on and of from outside a mini split....
Yes, just turn the unit on and when the refrigerants in the outdoor unit, cut the power to the outside unit.
Whenever you recover the freon back into the outside unit, what are the changes that air or any form of moisture will be inside the outside unit? If you didn’t perform a vacuum test the first time?
If the line set wasn't vacuumed the first time, the compressor will have air, and possibly moisture, since the compressor is acting as a vacuum to suck whatever was in the indoor unit and line set back into the compressor.
@@airspool So how would you fix this problem, I had my mini plit installed by a friend and I am trying to do the same thing, so I can vaccum my lines but the line set was never vaccumed initially?
You would have to recover the Freon out of the unit clean it or add new back after vacuuming the whole system down to get out all moisture.
Another noob question. Is the valve on the actual pressure gauge on or off when doing this? I followed everything to the “T”, but the pressure never dropped. I don’t want to open the valve of the gauge because I don’t know if doing so will release anything that shouldn’t be released. Does that make sense?
Hi Brian, well, make sure that you are actually depressing the service valve such that the pressure from the unit can be read on the gauge. Sometimes, it can be like a bike schrader valve such that if it's not pressed in correctly, nothing happens. So yes, the valve is actually attached. It doesn't need to be turned on or anything. Again, it's similar to a bike pump gauge such that if it's correctly mounted, you'll see pressure. Nothing will be released. And yes, the pressure will go down as the compressor sucks the refrigerant into the outside unit.
Gauge valve should be off
Sorry, newbie question....
What is the yellow hose connecting to?
Hi Fargo, actually, that's a 110 (or 120?) v electrical cord powering the unit. So, yes, for this procedure, you only need the blue hose on the low-pressure service port just to monitor the refrigerant pressure to see that the compressor has done its job and sucked up all of the refrigerant. Since the high-side (smaller refrigerant line) was closed in the beginning, the refrigerant has nowhere to go but back into the compressor. Once it's all back in there, the suction port (for the larger refrigerant line) is also closed.
Hi there when the blue hose is connected does the Gauge have to be open
I have a three zone unit that was wondering if this will work for just one zone or do I have to do all zones. my unit is three zone. I need to put it independent unit in the bedroom because my wife always likes to do opposite of what the other rooms are.
Well, probably all of the ports are tied together for hooking up gauges, so you're not going to get an accurate reading. But having said that, you could potentially do it without gauges by just closing down the high side and run for 30 seconds with the low side port open and then close the high side valve. If there was a separate service port on all three circuits, then no problem to monitor the pressure, but most units don't have this.
@@airspool I have to go and look but best to my memory. It had three service ports on the low side, and I think one master one at the top above the three I was a little confused about hooking gauges to it due to the port if I remember right. I think I vacuumed down each line separately. It was my second unit I installed the first one that was a multizone since then I put in four at my shop. The process and installing one at my wife’s shop. The gauges I got don’t have the right Freon but I’ve been just using the pressure readings on it. And the vacuum gauge. The two systems are put in the house. I’ve been running for over a year with no issues.
I have a multi zone fujitsu, 4 indoor units, do I run all 4 simultaneously to perform this? And can I use the test run from outside unit to statt and stop all units together? Thank you!
Idle, sorry for the delay. Have the gauge hooked up to any of the 4 service ports. If one is bigger than the other three connect to that largest one. Close all of the high-side (high press, for the smaller lines) valves quickly, with all zones running in cooling. Close the low-side valves quickly when the pressure shown on the gauge goes to zero. Immediately shut the unit off.
@@airspool Thank you, I only have 1 set of ports on my outside unit. My system is older and use 2 branch boxes, located in the attic.
Valves are closed tight but when i break open the unions for the insode coil i still get hissing?
The high side valve gets closed 1st the the low side valve gets closed when the gauge gets to zero. So, potentially, the compressor could pull enough to make the lines have a bit of a vacuum, but if you disconnect under these circumstances, the hissing will only be for a split second. If there's still refrigerant in the lines, that's high pressure, that will stay hissing for a while and be a very scary sound as you're losing your refrigerant as you disconnect. If you did the procedure correctly, all the refrigerant should be in the compressor.
How do put freon back on the high side of the unit
The compressor should suck all of the refrigerant through the system. So, any that started on the high side will expand in the indoor unit and then come back through the low pressure line to the compressor. And all this is a very quick process from the time you close the high pressure line to the time of the refrigerant is in the compressor.
Your video starts with the gauge already connected to the service valve. When I try to connect my gauge it starts shooting out quite a bit of coolant before I can even get it screwed on fully. What am I doing wrong?
Well, good gauges should screw on a bit before the Schrader starts pushing down. Search for environmentally friendly gauges, and those will help you save both money and save the environment from keeping refrigerant from being released.
Thank you!
Just wonder how much longer before the outdoor unit may blow up? I saw those guy chatting causally while the gauge needle already hit the zero point, and finally the video ended.
It won't blow up, most of that copper in there is rated at 3,000 PSI burst and even completely locked down with the compressor on the high side won't ever push over 500 PSI, and the scroll compressor in there is strong enough to handle the extra head pressure for a good bit of time
How about Tri Split? How to do it? Can you please let me know since I need to move the outdoor unit to other location.
Hi Virgilio, yes, it's also simple. Have the gauge hooked up to any of the 3 service ports. If one is bigger than the other two, connect to that largest one. Close all of the high-side valves quickly, with all zones running in cooling. Close the low-side valves quickly when the pressure shown on the gauge goes to zero. Immediately shut the unit off.
Thank you!!
After refrigerant is backed up and service ports are closed, is the low pressure port still open to pressure test lines with nitrogen?
Just found the answer on my installation manual. The answers yes. I guess that is the propose of a 3-way valve. Great video, Thank you!
Well, for this procedure, close the low pressure port when all the refrigerant is back into the unit. So at that point, first the high pressure port, which is closed first, and then the low pressure port, which is closed once all the refrigerator is back into the unit, will be closed. At that point, the outdoor unit is similar to the way it was when it shipped from the factory. You can move the indoor and outdoor unit anywhere you would like, connect the refrigerant lines again, pull a vacuum again, and then re-release the refrigerant.
Ok but where is the yellow line connected to in the out door unit you not showing it ??
Hi Melvin, actually, the yellow one is just the power cord to power the air conditioner, so nothing directly related to the procedure here.
When i connected the gauge i had a lot of hissing, whats best way to connect the gauge?
Sounds like the hose or gauges are leaking. Check the ports on the gauges, and make sure that they are closed. Only use the hose for the low-side gauge.
Do you have air conditioner on or heat on?
In the video, we have the air conditioning on. You would need to reverse the order of valve closure in heat mode.
If you don't know that you don't need to do this...
@John Drossart so in heat mode close the big line first then the small line ?
Hi @jamie_liles, for simplicity, just have the unit on air conditioning mode. That's safer, because certain mini splits use the large line for liquid come in some use it for gas, and heating mode.
Why is this never mentioned? I've watched a few videos on this process, but they never say whether they're running in heating or cooling, and that seems very relevant.
Is the unit running when you do this?
Yes. The compressor motor is used to pull the refrigerant back into itself.
Hi there just a qusetion does the Guage have to be open
Hi Sai, I think you're asking if you need to have gauges. Yes, because without them, you will not know when the refrigerant has all entered the compressor and if you keep it on too long, it can damage the compressor. And yes, first close the high pressure gauge, and then later close the low pressure gauge.
@@airspool thank you very much for responding back greatly appreciated
Can I pump down a inverter compressor too?
Sure! This one shown is an inverter compressor.
@@airspool Thank you. One more question. How accurate is this method if we consider that we had a negative pressure, before releasing a refrigerant from outdoor unit? How much a refrigerant do we lose?
Ted, first, sorry for the late reply. Yes, when you pull the vacuum in the closed refrigerant loop, the pressure will be negative. Once the refrigerant is released, though, the pressure will be well above ambient pressure. And, well, using this method, the compressor is being used as a 'vacuum pump' to pull this refrigerant back into the compressor. So, yes, it'll work. The pressure on the closed loop goes back to negative at the end of this procedure, since all of the refrigerant is back in the compressor. Then, the low pressure valve is closed. The closed loop then remains negative, and the positive pressure is all in the compressor.
Maybe better audio and a more of a complex set up from start to finish would make this video perfect
Likely.
If I have a 3 zone mini split do I need to do this for all 3 circuits?
Hi Michael, have the gauge hooked up to any of the 3 service ports. If one is bigger than the other two, connect to that largest one. Close all of the high-side valves quickly, with all zones running in cooling. Close the low-side valves quickly when the pressure shown on the gauge goes to zero. Immediately shut the unit off.
@@airspool thank you for the response. So i by doing this i can pump down all 3 circuits from one of the service valves. If i do i this way do I close the master valves as well the same time i close the service valves?
also would i be able to just hook up my gauge to the master low side. Then close the high side master valve and 3 high side service valves , then do the same to master high side and 3 service high side valves?
thank you for your time
@@michaels1527 well, remember, the compressor's doing the pumping. The gauges are just on the any of the service ports, just to check the pressure. If you have, say, 2 9k btu units and one 12k btu unit, put the gauge on the 12k service port. Turn the unit on in air conditioning. When the compressor is running, close the liquid/smaller lines, all quickly at about the same time. When the pressure goes to zero, close all of the gas/low pressure lines. Then immediately turn the unit off. Then, disconnect the gauge.
@@airspool Ok thank you I understand. I have 3 9k btu units so it doesn't matter where i put the gauge. and ill close the 4 liquid lines first then the 4 gas ports (the master and the 3 service) once i hit 0 psi. Should i shut the master valve ports first or service ports first? Or it doesn't matter ?
@@michaels1527 this is what i was wondering myself
If there is air in my minisplit system (An error occured during installation). How can I restore it?
Is the error that no vacuum was pulled? If so, yes, that refrigerant needs to be pulled out of the system, and the new refrigerant needs to be put in. Yes, the refrigerant is still fine, but there's no way to separate it from the air, so start fresh.
So leave power on?
Yes, and in air conditioning mode, not in heat mode. And then turn the unit off once all the refrigerant is back in the outdoor unit.
@@airspool mine is a inverter style. Will I have any problem getting all the Freon out? I know it’s got protection built in in the event that Freon gets low and shuts off the compressor.
Two questions:
First, do you do this procedure only when the unit is in cooling mode or will either heating or cooling work?
Second, if I wanted to add refrigerant to a system that is low, could I use the fully charged weight of the outdoor unit as it comes from the factory to measure how much refrigerant was lost? By weighing the outdoor unit I mean. Thank you for the video!
Yes, do it in cooling mode. And, is the leak fixed? Or was it just low to begin with? If there's a leak, obviously that needs to be solved first. And instead of weighing the outdoor unit, just let in a very little bit of refrigerant at a time, and let it run for 10 minutes and feel the suction line. If it feels like an icy cold beverage, you're good. Don't overfill the unit. You of course could try to do this by the pressure/temperature chart for your unit, too, if you have that. This will say what the pressures should be for a given outside temperature.
@@airspoolThank you!
What happens if your AC is serviced and the technicians do not use evacuation pumps. All my minisplits leaked out. The Mexican guys just guess and add refrigerant (do not weigh) not care about evacuation. My minisplits run max power all the time and the fins on teh back barely feel warm. 18k minisplit using 2800 watts constantly.
The install is the most important aspect of any split system refrigerant installation. If it's done correct, very little maintenance on the unit will be needed in the future. Just clean the indoor filter once a month or something, and then clean the coils, both indoor and outdoor, as needed.
@@airspool I asked on a Facebook page here in Mexico "it's not a thing here". I have no choice but to buy my own equipment, evacuate system then wait for lazy arse MX tech to fill with refrigerant. I found another guy here in MX did the same thing because he was tired of "shotty work".
Ok,
why did you leave it running lol
This is a very important point. Todd actually has the remote in his hand, so he was fixin' to do that. Thanks for bringing this up, since yes, the unit must immediately be turned off once all the refrigerant is back in the outside unit.
Hmm... a 3/16ths of three barleycorns size wrench huh? Who wants to bet it's actually a 5mm? Since America can't figure out how to make our own mini splits and even the American brands just import and re-badge much more sophisticated, more efficient, and more reliable Asian designed and manufactured units. lol
this was painful
Why?
@@robertinogg For me it having to watch Todd still masticating his breakfast....
So after its stored how do we reinstall it elsewhwre
At that point, the unit is back to factory conditions. Take the outdoor unit and indoor unit to any other location, re-install the line set, pull a vacuum on the line set to remove the air, and re-release the refrigerant into the system and turn it on.