I've done a newer updated version of this video with better explanation and newer games here: ruclips.net/video/6mWies_4oDs/видео.html&pp=sAQA Find out if your gaming laptop model has Optimus here: jarrods.tech/list-of-gaming-laptops-with-mux-switch/
Great video, particularly on something often overlooked by other channels! From my own testing (Metabox/Clevo P650RP-G which also uses a MUX chip to swap between G-Sync and Optimus modes) I've found the explanations for why Optimus loses performance in some cases, and in some others, performs the same: 1) Optimus mode transfers the framebuffer from the Nvidia GPU to the Intel GPU over the PCIE bus. So the higher your framerate goes, the more PCIE bandwidth is eaten up by this process, which in turn means less bandwidth available to the Nvidia GPU. This is why very light games like CS:GO show massive changes as the system will perform increasingly worse as you exceed ~100fps or so. 2) Optimus mode engages the Intel iGPU at all times which shares power limits with the CPU, thus bottle-necking the CPU performance. If the game is already CPU bound like Watch Dogs 2 (shown at 100% cpu usage) and the new Assassins Creed games (Origins and Odyssey) it will slow it down even before you run into PCIE limits above. 3) If your game is not CPU bottle-necked at all AND runs below 100fps, chances are it'll perform exactly the same. This is easy to test using DSR. Crank the GPU settings until the framerate falls well below 100fps and until CPU bottle-necking disappears and you'll find the performance delta disappears. As a final note, all of these issues also apply to External GPU setups (Razer Core etc) to an even greater degree since they only have a skinny x4 PCIE connection to work with. These effects are also seen with the Linux Looking Glass software which works very similarly to Optimus, except it's used for Virtual Machines on desktop PCs.
Wow great info there! Makes sense when I was playing fortnite on an external monitor and seeing like a crazy % FPS difference. I always play on very low settings to keep FPS as high as possible and with Optimus, I was at 200ish fps dropping in and with g sync on, I was at just under 300ish. You're right more people need to be aware of this since massive amounts of people buy gaming laptops just for e sport light weight games specifically. Also, my other laptop (XPS 15 9560) gets the same FPS on external monitor or internal display but the HDMI/thunderbolt 3 on it isn't connected directly to the Nvidia GPU which makes sense why it's the same and why I can't enable g sync on external monitor even with dp adapter. Had I known it wouldn't be the same on laptops connected to the dGPU, I wouldn't have bought anything but a switchable/dedicated GPU laptop considering the performance loss. Thanks again man 👍
Your videos are very informative, to the point and the quality is less to none! I hope you'll get to 1M subs by the end the of year mate! Thank you from the enthusiast community.
@@alwinmt i wish my laptop's gpu could output to the HDMI port, the thing is, osu runs on openGL (if you don't mark the compatibility option in the game's settings), and minecraft also runs on openGL, they run worse on the dedicated GPU than on the integrated from intel, minecraft with intel 300fps, minecraft with dedicated gpu 90-130fps + lots of input lag if your screen is 60hz. nvidia optimus is the worst thing they could make for performance, not only lowers the native performance of the machine you play on, but also breakes openGL apps completly and gives room for an integrated gpu to compete in fucking minecraft
Good video Jarrod. I concur, I have seen the same improvements with Gsync. Its good to see more laptops have the option to switch manually now, like my Triton 500. My old GT73 did the same. What I would like to see is Freesync using these Nvidia cards.
@@JarrodsTech Honestly, the biggest letdown with the new Razer Blade 17. Would have been a day 1 purchase if it had switchable Optimus/G-sync. 17" without G-sync seems like an oversight.
It’s interesting because this makes laptops seem even better compared to their desktop counterparts over the years. It was always said how the xx80/xx70/xx60 is however much worse but part of it is optimus.
Good review! I didn't expect such a difference. G-sync is very cheap to implement on laptops, it's sad to see that most 2060, 2070 etc laptops comes with optimus. Lower batterylife is a downer, but I think most people who spend 1500USD or more would like fps over batterylife. On many g-sync systems optimus can be manually enabled aswell.
Thanks! Yeah I think having the option of both and rebooting to swap like the GX701 has is the best option, best of both worlds and the user can pick how they want to use it rather than being stuck with one or the other.
Ah, this explains things. I got my G5 RTX2060 a week or so ago, and tried the UV/OC (for some reason, I got less fps with OC applied). In Fallout 4 at nearly ultra I was averaging 40-60fps at best. Old monitor crapped out so I picked up an Acer VG270 and tested it with the G5... my FPS gained a substantial boost to 75 on average, with dips down to 60 at most in the worst areas of the game. Great analysis and explanation.
just found out about this "Hybrid mode" setting on my new Lenovo Legion 5.. I must say it is still quite impressive- while my battery is around 70% running on discrete GPU mode + battery saver I get around 3 hours battery life in nongaming activity, but with "hybrid mode" enabled + batery saver I get around 6 hours... In my opinion this is insane for 17" screen gaming laptop, not to mention the fans are so quiet you just don't hear anything. I must say it is a bit of a pain in the ass that you need to restart system in order to switch between these modes, but I really see myself doing it in the future... sometimes I like to read books or watch movies, let's face it sometimes it is a bit too awkward to keep your laptop pluged in... this is a nice little feature that I will keep in mind.
Very interesting. I noticed this on my gx701 as well. The retail units come with gsync off and I noticed tearing where I was mostly playing Far Cry 5 and ESO. I enabled gsync and saw a nice frame boost (I didn't measure it but I think the ESO boost was nice). It confused me at first. Interestingly the Optimus running slower in some games actually increases the impact of tearing in the more intensive games so it kind of double downs on the negatives vs using a gsync mode. On a separate note I returned my gx701 because the 9th gen Intel cpu version is coming around May 27th, but of note it's the same price but they are bumping the models RAM from 16GB to 32GB. So I'm guessing they decided to solder on 16GB vs 8GB previously. This really removes one of the biggest negatives the gx701 had IMHO. I loves my gx701 so definitely getting the new one. Interestingly they are offering (limited in certain regions apparently) an HDR screen variant supposedly with better contrast etc but no gsync. Was curious about that but gsync removes tearing and gives a fps bump (by bypassing the integrated pass through as you say) really is steering me away from any optimus only laptops. I'm curious about the performance of the new Razer Blade Pro 17 too, though don't think it has gsync, not sure if it uses optimus though so might see the same frame hit.
Oh that's interesting if the 9th gen has 16gb soldered now 👍 hope that's the case, let us know! I haven't seen G-Sync listed in the Razer Blade Pro specs yet, but also not sure if they're final as it's not out yet, I've asked my contacts about a review unit when available but no reply lol
Matthew Langley you returned your laptop why? I just ordered mine off amazon price went down $400 $2899 for 8th gen. 16gb is enough but u could always upgrade it down the road total of 40gb it’s possible.
@@NomanNizarAli So I returned mine since it was recent enough and I wanted the new gen CPU and the 32GB vs 16GB of RAM. To be clear I paid the full $3300, now as you said it's down $400 and I think that's an excellent deal. With that said that model has to 8gb of soldered on memory and 8gb slotted. You can in fact upgrade that secondary module to 16GB or 32GB to get 24GB or 40GB total memory, with that said only 16GB will be dual channel via flex ever. With the new one I'm assuming it has 16GB soldered in (otherwise it seems the 32GB would be impossible basically) and that ups the cap to 32GB of dual channel memory. 16GB is plenty for gaming and as all the benchmarks show for all reviewers it outperforms pretty much anything with the same hardware. With that said though this is my personal laptop my profession has me using a 32GB work laptop where the memory is useful for running 10+ VMs. So for the choice was clear, return it and get the 8750h -> 9750h and 16GB (max dual channel ever) -> 32GB of dual channel memory (and 16GB more immediate memory) for the same price I already paid. Since I was able to return it and get all my money back (minus about $12 for the pro-rated extended warranty plan refund) it's basically a no brainer. Even then I almost didn't because I had mine set up and was really enjoying it, have to wait 3+ weeks now and I'm already missing it. At $400 off I think that model is an excellent deal.
@@JarrodsTech Yeah will be interesting to see. Also of interest the new model is listed as weighing 5.7 pounds vs 5.95 pounds before. Not sure what to think of that. Xoticpc seems to list a "coming soon" gx701 with a 9880h, though I think that might just be a typo since I don't see that anywhere else.
Okay there are two questions left for me: 1- How do I know if my laptop's monitor is directly connected to the Nvidia GPU or the iGPU? (ie: Is it using Optimus while gaming or not?) 2- Is there another way of getting rid of the Optimus bottle-nick without having a G-Sync laptop or connecting the laptop to an external monitor? I have the Eluktronics Mech-15 G2RX with an Nvidia RTX 2070 MQ. Thanks in advance
1 You can watch on nvidia control panel, not exactly know where, but there will be a picture of it where is going your monitor. 2 i dont know that, watch yt videos
Wow. I didnt even expect, that performance difference will be that dramatic in some games. I plan to buy Lenovo Y740 RTX2060, with G-Sync and now I'm even more confident with this choice. I'm still waiting for you to review this laptop though. GJ anyway.
Nice! I sent them a follow up email yesterday on the Y740, waiting to hear back. They needed them all for an esports event over the weekend, but now that's over I'm hoping I can borrow one!
Why do u not have more subs look at the quality the to the point vids and I love everything about the way i=u give info and all the info u give i hope u get 1million subs by the end of this year
Nice Video like always Jarrod if you don't mind may i ask you something, it is asus strix hero ii rtx 2060 will have nvidia optimus or not? cause i really hate that technology that use on my laptop now (dell 7577) cause a lot of game are really have issues with this optimus.. so i really want to fin d a gaming laptop that will have options to disable that optimus, external monitor is not my thing cause i dont have room to put it also dont care about battery too as long that optimus can be disable.. hope you can help me tq.. if you don't mind please put all the list you know a gaming laptop that don't have optimus i will appreciate it 😁
It'd be nice if there were more laptops with an MUX switch allowing the user to opt between Optimus or G-Sync at will. I happen to have a 17.3" rebranded Clevo with RTX 2070 and 8750H that has this function.
What clevo model is it exactly...I've seen some clevo models that have really good specs with Gsync. But was skeptical about buying em since no one seems to do detailed reviews on them
Are these the laptops I'm looking for? :) I've always preferred laptops that have g-sync over ones that don't. Ever since I got my G-sync monitor years ago it's tough for me not to have it. The difference to me is night and day. But screens have gotten alot better and 144hz and low response times are common these days. So it's less noticeable than when I first got it. I still prefer it though. So how did you come up with this idea? I never thought about it before. . .but it makes so much sense.
Haha 😂 personally I don't mind the tearing aspect much, once you have high refresh rate and high FPS it's less noticeably to me, but yeah the extra performance adds another dimension to it. I knew some people preferred G-Sync for more reasons than just the adaptive sync aspect, honestly it was a bit of an accident that I came across the performance benefit because I benchmarked a game with and without G-Sync enabled and noticed the different results and thought "hey that's odd", so did some more research over a few weeks. Other people are talking about this, but it doesn't seem to be that widely known as far as I could tell, there are some threads about it on enthusiast forums so I figured it might be useful if I cover it in a video.
i have a msi katana gf66 11UC-478IN which is 144hz but my monitor is 60hz so how do i disable optimus and not use my monitor because i still need 144hz
Preach mate, more people need to be aware of this. A MUX switch between Nvidia Suckptimus and G-Sync/Freesync needs to become mainstream on gaming laptops. The more people know about this, the more vocal they are about it, the higher chances for MUX switches to trickle down to mainstream gaming laptops. Btw Nvidia "Optimus" is a can of worms, plenty of software issues and troubleshooting, it does not work perfectly, sometimes it will use dGPU for productivity/office software and drain the battery instead of using iGPU. It just doesn't work half the time. I see Nvidia Suckptimus only laptops as a major con. Bob of All Trades has more videos on how Suckptimus downgrades user experienced.
Thanks! Yeah I've heard about the problems with it, I guess it's just been pretty good over the last couple of years since I've been doing the channel as I haven't had any complaints with it, so yeah I just assumed it's improved over time. I've heard him talk all about how it sucks 😛
I have a laptop with a 8750H and GTX 1070. And the laptop only uses the 1070 during gaming. All other tasks it uses the intel integrated graphics. Laptop has no G-Sync so I use V-Sync while gaming.
Excuse me kind sir? But I have a question. How I connect my moniter with a 144hz and G-sync on my Razer Blade 15 Advanced (Rtx 2070 model) The Razer Blade has a HDMI port, Mini DisplayPort and a Thunderbolt 3. Which of these ports is available for me to use my monitor? I have watch your videoes a lot and a massive Thank you!!! for helping me decide which gaming laptop I should get!
The Razer Blade 15 Advanced has HDMI 2.0b and mini DisplayPort 1.4, both of which should support 144Hz at 1080p. You can check what the spec supports here: HDMI: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Refresh_frequency_limits_for_standard_video There was a similar table for DisplayPort but it seems to have moved.
I turned off optimus because my 14th gen cpu was unstable AF. I would always have video related errors and BSODs after turning it off, I haven't been experiencing problems thus far.
Dude thank you 🙏 for doing this and confirming what I experienced on my tongfang laptop before I returned it. What's sad is most people with Optimus laptops will never realize this loss unless they have an external monitor. I can accept 5% but some of these are 15-20% difference or higher... Everyone should know this before spending likely over 1000$ on a laptop. The CSGO/DotA difference is insane and who knows if there are lots of other games seeing this kind of difference? 😑😠 I wish every laptop maker had switchable graphics. Better battery life with Optimus unplugged than switch modes when plugged in gaming for performance. Best of both worlds to me. Having to reboot isn't practical, but an extra 15-20% fps is basically like getting an upgraded GPU since the laptop is basically running the GPU like a desktop would!! Thanks again for being one of the few to discuss/notice this! More people know about this the better👍
20% FPS hit is a sin, that's the equivalent of moving from a RTX 2060 Max-Q to a full powered RTX 2070. I don't mind rebooting at all in the age of blazing fast M.2 PCI-E 4 SSDs, it takes about 40 seconds of my time to either receive full performance of the GPU I paid full price, or instead take a 20% hit to increase battery life while on the move. Most users don't switch from productivity or browsing to heavy gaming every 5 minutes while on the go.
No problem! Yeah I wish they all had the option of swapping too, then you at least get to pick what you want to use rather than being stuck with one or the other.
i know im a year late but like, first of all, idk why you would want g sync, as it increases latency. Second of all, what you are explaining is counter intuitive to the entire point of laptops: to save energy and battery life. Yes you can get better FPS by overclocking the GPU, but your battery life goes down if overclocked on battery. Yes you can get better performance by tuning your CPU, but if the CPU takes more energy, then it will actually lower in battery life. There is a tradeoff: more FPS = less battery life. That applies per the same generation CPUs and GPUs respectively.
Great video! Quick question: For laptops that only have Optimus like the Dell you showcased, does changing the preferred GPU from "Auto-select" to "High performance NVIDIA processor" in the NVIDIA control panel have the same effect as disabling Optimus (for the laptop's display)?
No I don't think so, it just ensures that the Nvidia graphics render what ever it is that you've chosen, however in the end the signal still needs to go via the Intel integrated graphics which seems to be what causes the slow down.
@@JarrodsTech just to confirm, the gs65 8rf lost performance due to this? There is nothing you can do about it in most cases? Just plug in via hdmi? Fuck
Thanks! I haven't heard of that as a feature, though why would you need to reboot when an external monitor is plugged in? It's not like G-Sync / MUX switch where you need to reboot to swap between G-Sync and Optimus, you should just be able to plug in and ready to go.
I'm sorry, I'm not an expert here, but I have a question. Enabled G sync results to smooth experience in the expense of battery life, right? So does it mean enabling G sync more frequently will lead to shorter life span of battery? Or it is consumes battery faster? I don't understand the consequences of it. And, does having a G sync makes a difference in price?
Nice video comparing the two, it helps alot. I'm sure that everyone would want a gsync display without the cost of battery life so hopefully it can be more efficient in the future. One question i do have is how the lenovo y740 work? I think in their control center you're able to manually turn gsync off and on. What does this mean about the battery? I'm sure you get more battery life with gsync off but would you be saving as much power as a laptop with nvidia optimus? If so that's the best solution to all of this. Just turn gsync on when gaming and off when not. A quick little research that i did. The dell g3 15 inch has a 57whr battery so pretty similar to the lenovo legion y740. With the dell g3 you about 4 hours and a half of battery life while the y740 will get you a little less at 4 hours. The difference is probably because of the screen. If that's the case then what I previously mentioned really is the solution to this problem. All that's needed is for manufacturers to have such a feature in their control centers
Cheers! I haven't used the Y740 myself yet, but if you have the option of changing it, it would depend on what it's changing to. Is it changing to Optimus mode, or is it changing to only Intel graphics? What's more likely is it's changing to Optimus, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use the Nvidia graphics at all, when you open a game up it would just be using the Intel graphics. I think there is a little more involved than just having the software option, both graphics need to be wired to the display and there's a MUX switch which lets you change over after reboot.
Jarrod'sTech yea you're right, if only it was that easy to change things instead of going through the bios every time. Either way I'm sure there will eventually be a time where either optimus is good enough to not sacrifice performance. Hopefully manufacturers can work on this problem better in the future. Thank you for the reply, always appreciate it
Thıs video saved my life man. Thank you. I recently had an Asus laptop with 11800h and rtx3060 but CPU was overheating on CPU demanded games like CS:GO, DOTA 2, BF1&5 and I was so disappointed on that. Since I use my laptop with a monitor at home, disabling optimus really gave me like %30 fps increase in dota 2. Is it possible to disable optimus with laptop's screen too?
@@JarrodsTech I have Asus FX506HM. And I will check that video thanks mate. Even if it's not possible this was extremely helpful and I'm so glad I can use more or cpu
I own a clevo p870dm3 and am aware of what this video covers. My laptop has g-sync and no option for optimus, and as strange as it may sound, having that option would be nice. With a 7700k and dual 1080's the thing is a beast...... that chews thru battery power like a stoned packman (mmmmmm munchies.......), but at the same time I got the thing for its performance and clevo left that option out for the exact reasons you described. What really needs to happen is that panel manufacturers need to design laptop panels with dual inputs so there is no performance hit, you can still use g-sync, and save battery life when just web browsing. Having the signal pass thru the iGPU seems like an over-engineered solution imposed by intel. Otherwise Optimus is just a gimmick, not a feature. I also own a much smaller ultrabook with an Nvidia dGPU and optimus option and it works just great for that little thing, so some of it does boil down to specific use-case, but on any 'high end' laptop, optimus is a garbage feature as it stands now. All that being said, somthing like that, if engineered into a product, should always be a selectable option. ANY laptop that I buy that uses it as an always on feature without the ability to switch would be immediately returned. And lets be honest; yes having to reboot is annoying generally, but with todays modern systems with a decent ssd, even my i5-400x (i forget specifically, maybe a 4200u, so a low power chip at that) ultrabook with an msata ssd only takes 20 seconds at most to restart, omg..... Because EVERYTHING has to be NOW NOW NOW!!!!!! . If developers were stuck on this iGPU passthru design, maybe they could design in a physical switch for it? Make it work only when powered off? Either that or use AI and inferrence to train a psychic neural network with the ability to predict what you need based on how you open the lid to your laptop?
Yeah I agree, I want to see it as an optional feature so then at least you have the option of choosing which you want to use rather than being forced one way or the other.
Is there a gsync laptop out there that has a good price/performance ratio while sporting slim bezels? I travel for a living and trying to keep weight at a minimum if possible so factoring that in is quite difficult. The y740 seems amazing but that power brick.... yikes! I'm also contemplating the non Sager NP8966 with the 2060). I mostly play Fallout 4, Starcraft 2 and Killer Instinct. Not sure how those titles use gysnc, etc. Love the channel and thanks for the help if you see this!
Thanks! I suspect the Clevo options, like the stuff Sager sells, would probably be the best option in terms of price, otherwise I have't tested many others that I'd consider to be priced well, all the recent machines I've had with G-Sync have all been top end models like this GX701 for example. I have heard the Y740 is pretty good though, I'm in the process of trying to get one for review at the moment.
the problem is that even having deactivated the management of the GPU by optimus, the clocking of the ram it remains divided by 2 compared to the mains supply (I checked with Ultimate boot disc (by dimitry primochenko)), even worse, the Ram memory heats up more and therefore loses its lifespan because of optimus
My Razer Pro 17 2020 doesn't have G Sync, but if I switch from Optimus to Dedicated GPU I was getting around 10% better performance in the Red Dead Redemption 2 benchmark, and around 15% better performance for Nier Automata. I didn't think Optimus was making *that* much of a difference...
Nvidia Optimus never works properly in my opinion. Even when using 3D CAD software, the laptop still tries to put most of the load on the Intel integrated graphics and the program lags, even though I have a great Quadro card in the computer. Integrated graphics should be disabled whenever the laptop is plugged in, period. PS, this is one of the highest quality videos on the subject of Optimus so thank you.
I was between a toss up between Strix Scar III and GX701GWR and after seeing this video, I think I have made up my mind. Thanks for this informative video!
Will this work with monitors that are „only“ G-Sync compatible to the same extent? I own an Asus ROG Strix Scar III and I am planning on getting the new Viewsonic XG270. Do you believe I might experience the same boost in performance with this setup?
The gain is from bypassing Optimus, G-Sync is just a bonus, so any monitor will give you a performance boost if the laptop is stuck with optimus with its screen. Yes I'd expect that to boost performance.
Thanks! Yes they should be able to, as long as the screen supports FreeSync/G-Sync. This seems to be an old page, but it lists the GPUs that support G-Sync, and it seems to include laptop versions (eg 970M) www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/supported-gpus not sure if you have to use DisplayPort for it to work though.
@@JarrodsTech I also have a question what i cant figure out for almost a week. I've been watching you since i decided to buy the predator helios 300 1660ti 144hz cause you tested it it was damm good! But i want to buy an external monitor wit G-sync because of the performance boost and more comfort. However i have nly a HDMI port and i dont know if i convert the HDMI via display pot will get mi access the monitor full refresh rate and also the G-sync? Noobody could helped me solve this problem ind I'm not enougt smart to do it myself :(
@@istvanmester ok so hdmi doesn't support 144hz (if it's hdmi 1.4). you need to use your usb c port. however, be aware that your usb c port might be hard wired to your Intel Integrated GPU (using Nvidia Optimus to switch to your dedicated Nvidia GPU when you're playing games and such). so, you won't be able to use g sync, since the result is being compressed by the iGPU. the 144hz will in fact work, but not g-sync, unless you have a Multiplexer (which is rare among laptops).
@@StarTrackerChannel Thx for the reply! Ibought my monitor and connected via Minidisplay->DisplayPort and my refresh rate and Gsync is also working.. However everytime once or twice if i start my laptot it seems like the external monitor stucks or stutter as hard as f*uck. Disabeling the Inter Grapich 630 seems woriking for the next start, but its not the best way ithink to solve this problem.
Thanks for that tip (close the laptop to use the dedicated gpu or something..), I use a magnet for keep it open and now i can use the NICE keyboard that my laptop have :D
Probably related to CPU TDP more than anything. With Intel gpu getting a load it'll give less power to the cpu cores hence limiting performance. With gsync on you're giving all cpu tdp to the cores rather than divide between iGpu and cores. My theory is especially supported by cs go and Witcher 3 benchmarks. Former being more cpu intensive gets a huge boost while the latter has always been a gpu heavy title so core power draw matters. Anyone on Optimus can put Intel iGpu on power saving mode and undervolt their cpu including the iGpu for a boost this'll have similar effects to increasing TDP limit without the cons. To support my points if I have a browser game running on iGpu my performance in cpu intensive games (cs go, Arma 3, gmod) suffer despite having 3.9 ghz on cores anyway. 6 cores need as much power as they can get and iGpu steals that away.
It could be related, though I was testing with higher settings to make the game tests as GPU bound as possible. There's some more information in the pinned comment though.
@@JarrodsTech thanks that's a good pin, I'm wondering did you use Windows Full-screen optimizations on or off in the games tested? It's on by default, can't be globally disabled and results in performance loss in Full-screen apps BUT apparently gsync bypasses this so it might be adding to the massive gains from some of the testing. www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/10/ Check the link above, I've no way to test this since my laptop is Optimus only and I don't have a gsync external monitor.
Hmm yeah I didn't look too much into the 1% low results to see if the overall percentage is higher than the average FPS, the data is there so I guess someone could check that if they wanted 😅
Yeah it is, I talk about the difference a bit more in the GX701 vs Razer Blade video, basically the GX701 comes out ahead in all games tested due to this.
Optimus is by far one of the worst things Nvidia has ever made. Not being able to directly render to your laptop screen from your GPU is absurd, with no way to disable this on 90% of laptops.
I am confused. Should or should not use G-Sync? If i only use my laptop montior without external monitor and i have a pretty powerful laptop with optimus off. I got an Nvidia update today that auto turned it on... I never use my laptop without power cable. I have 2 laptops currently. A Lenovo Legion 7 16IAX7 laptop and an MSI GS66... My lenovo updated today and auto turned on and now im afraid to update nvidia on my other laptop >.> so basically my question is how do i mininise fps, or potential performance issues, which option should I choose? Im a potato send help pls.
So just by setting on the G-sync setting, you could get a 15% increase in performance because it will forced the desactivation of Optmius, am i right ?
Hey jarrod! Can please review these two laptops? The asus tuf fx505 with the 1660ti and the asus zephyrus rog ga502 with the 1660ti as well, we want to see budget oriented laptops more! And to compare these two to see which one's better!
I'm trying to get both, ASUS just had the launch event in Australia yesterday for the new stuff so hopefully not too long before I can get them, I've been asking for the last few weeks.
Hi, I'm using a hp omen 15 with a rtx 2060/i7 10750/300 mhz screen with no gsync. I want to connect a gsync capable monitor and enable gsync. Will this model enable gsync? Do I need to keep the laptop closed to do so? Do I connect with the hdmi port if so or thunderbolt? Thanks been watching your vids here and on your laptop channel for a year, very helpful.
Interesting results! But shouldn't it be "Optimus" vs "Optimus disabled" (or "dGPU only") rather than "G-Sync" ? What has G-Sync to do with Windows only seeing and using the dGPU (other than it makes G-Sync possible, but it could be disabled and you'd get the same result in term of fps) ?
Perhaps, but I felt that G-Sync is more widely recognized as a brand name and something that is actually advertised with laptops. I haven't really seen laptops been advertised as not using optimus and just using the discrete graphics only, is there a term for that? I do note multiple times in the video that the requirement is having the discrete graphics connected to the display and not G-Sync, G-Sync just happens to require this.
@@JarrodsTech G-Sync is surely highly recognizable but in my opinion inappropriate, because if you connect a non G-Sync monitor (or simply disable G-Sync in the NV Control Panel) you will still have the same gain in fps (with vsync off). It's really Optimus on vs off. There is no catch all term for Optimus off. My BIOS setting calls it "Discrete Graphics". And it calls Optimus "Hybrid Graphics".
So does enabling G-Sync and restarting the laptop just turn off Optimus? And also if I connect an external monitor with a displayport and keep the laptop screen open will the External monitor have better performance than the laptop or will the laptop bottleneck the performance?
@@X3N1TH bruh did you even watch the video anyways when you connect an external monitor to your laptop it directly communicates with the dgpu so it's faster than its data going through the igpu which is connected to the laptop's integrated display Edit: of course you're gonna have to change some settings in the nvidia/amd gpu control panel
Plus right now I am interested in MSI designs and how it has a fan control center while Dell G5 5590 doesn't and I feel comfortable to have fan control and I really really really like MSI designs. SO, I decided and save up to buy the new MSI GF63 9SC. Jarrod, can you review the MSI GF63 9SC please?
Hi! Is there any laptops availeble with the following specs: AMD Ryzen 9 5900, 3080 grafic card, 240-360 hz 1080p monitor, Mux switch (advanced optimus), With TDP/TGP (or what it is called) 125-150W? If not, have you heard any rumors regarding a laptop coming soon with the specs listed above?
May be a silly question- I don't play games. Recently got an external monitor (supports refresh rate upto 165) and I could enable Gsync. Would it help to achieve variable refresh rate for day to day office work/editing/media consumption if I don't want to fix refresh rate to say 144 ? Or Gsync is totally useless for me? Would it save my laptop battery if I completely disable it?
Is it true that disabling Optimus will disable free sync? Why is this, if true? Strix Scar 2022 does not have g sync, so if you turn off Optimus, and it loses free sync, there is no vrr/adaptive syncing at all?
Im on a HP Pavilion Gaming 15-dk1056WM, how do i know if this have an output connected to the nvidia graphics? All i know is that it has a USB C output that can transfer info through a DisplayPort. Idk what that means btw.
I have a legion y530 with gtx 1060. I've tested several configurations with assassins creed odyssey benchmark and i did not see any of that performance differences. I have an 144hz display but i use it at 60hz(CRU) to avoid judder at 60fps and 30 fps, since i play with vsync. I've tested with the built in display at 720p, 1080p, maximum settings, full screen, borderless, and the same thing with an external monitor with the internal disabled in the intel control panel. Tested with the lid closed also. The difference in average fps is about 1 or 2 fps maximum(52 vs 51). There's a biggest performance difference if the benchmark has a cloudy day or a sunny day. So, optimus does not make a diffence on my case. I have all battery saving features turned off on nvidia and intel control panels. I also have prefer maximum performance enabled on nvidia control panel since otherwise the gpu frequency is always too low and causes stutters. Latest drivers and windows 10. On a side note, where optimus gives me issues is with vsync and frame pacing(judder). It only works if enabled in game and in exclusive fullscreen. I also have to use frame limiters to achieve stable framerates. Sometimes i have to use rivatuner, other times nvidia profile inspector and sometimes both. I also have to try nvidia profile inspector limiter v2 and v3, since sometimes one works fine and the other doesn't. And i have created a custom resolution at 60hz because using the screen at 144hz does not allow for a smooth experience using 60fps or 30fps, since i like to play the games locked at a stable framerate.
does this mean that once intel improves their iGPU for their H series processors the fps for gaming laptops using these chips will become closer to those not using optimus?
I'm pretty uninformed and educated with computers these days but using the bios to switch to dGPU if available, is that the same as what you've shown here to completely override optimus? Thanks 👍
So do I have to just enable gsync for this to work? I have a HP omen 17 rtx 2070 with gsync. Does that mean I just have to enable gsync and I'll get better performance or is this just for Asus products?
You don't need to enable G-Sync, you just need to be on Nvidia graphics (this is a requirement to enable G-Sync in the Nvidia control panel). If you want to confirm, check task manager performance tab, Intel graphics should not show up there.
I wish I knew this before buying my laptop. I got the old Helios 300 (16gb ram+i7-7700hq+GTX1060) because i found it at a good price, but I notice that I get much better fps when I plug it to a external monitor or tv. I actually saw people commenting about this but I didn't knew it was such a big deal. From the games you tested, I only tried CSGO and Shadow of Tomb Raider, CSGO also showed a huge difference in performance in mine, while tomb raider a smaller but still a lot more stable. Other games have like 10-30 more fps and less stutter, but even though I play most games at 60fps locked, its still disappointing to know that to get the most of the laptop I need to connect it to a external display. Unfortunately, I can't disable the Intel gpu and keep only the gtx, the internal display still works but it causes games to run at 1fps for some reason. Is there any workaround about this? I'm wondering if upgrading my ram to dual channel will decrease this difference, right now I have one 16gb stick cl17 2400mhz, was thinking to get two kingston hyperx 8gb cl14 2400mhz. But if it doesn't make much difference, I'll end up selling this laptop later. I would be ok if the difference was like 5-10 fps, In understand why optimus exists, but the difference in some games is too big. Another problem I found, is that when I connect the HDMI with laptop already on, and change to display the external display only, I get some stutter in everything that its not full screen, sometimes opening steam or start menu fixes this, others I have to restart the laptop or the igpu. Did you found similar problem when doing this tests? I'm unmotivated to play in the internal screen now.
Not that I'm aware of, just need to use an external display if it bypasses Optimus. I have not experienced that problem myself. I will probably do a video specifically about external screen performance in the future at some point.
is there an amd equivalent to optimus? i want to know cuz i also want to know if i would get an fps boost if i connected my full amd laptop to an external monitor
I've done a newer updated version of this video with better explanation and newer games here: ruclips.net/video/6mWies_4oDs/видео.html&pp=sAQA
Find out if your gaming laptop model has Optimus here: jarrods.tech/list-of-gaming-laptops-with-mux-switch/
first
Thanks for the list. It was very helpful
Great video, particularly on something often overlooked by other channels!
From my own testing (Metabox/Clevo P650RP-G which also uses a MUX chip to swap between G-Sync and Optimus modes) I've found the explanations for why Optimus loses performance in some cases, and in some others, performs the same:
1) Optimus mode transfers the framebuffer from the Nvidia GPU to the Intel GPU over the PCIE bus. So the higher your framerate goes, the more PCIE bandwidth is eaten up by this process, which in turn means less bandwidth available to the Nvidia GPU. This is why very light games like CS:GO show massive changes as the system will perform increasingly worse as you exceed ~100fps or so.
2) Optimus mode engages the Intel iGPU at all times which shares power limits with the CPU, thus bottle-necking the CPU performance. If the game is already CPU bound like Watch Dogs 2 (shown at 100% cpu usage) and the new Assassins Creed games (Origins and Odyssey) it will slow it down even before you run into PCIE limits above.
3) If your game is not CPU bottle-necked at all AND runs below 100fps, chances are it'll perform exactly the same. This is easy to test using DSR. Crank the GPU settings until the framerate falls well below 100fps and until CPU bottle-necking disappears and you'll find the performance delta disappears.
As a final note, all of these issues also apply to External GPU setups (Razer Core etc) to an even greater degree since they only have a skinny x4 PCIE connection to work with.
These effects are also seen with the Linux Looking Glass software which works very similarly to Optimus, except it's used for Virtual Machines on desktop PCs.
Wow great info there! Makes sense when I was playing fortnite on an external monitor and seeing like a crazy % FPS difference. I always play on very low settings to keep FPS as high as possible and with Optimus, I was at 200ish fps dropping in and with g sync on, I was at just under 300ish.
You're right more people need to be aware of this since massive amounts of people buy gaming laptops just for e sport light weight games specifically.
Also, my other laptop (XPS 15 9560) gets the same FPS on external monitor or internal display but the HDMI/thunderbolt 3 on it isn't connected directly to the Nvidia GPU which makes sense why it's the same and why I can't enable g sync on external monitor even with dp adapter.
Had I known it wouldn't be the same on laptops connected to the dGPU, I wouldn't have bought anything but a switchable/dedicated GPU laptop considering the performance loss. Thanks again man 👍
Thanks! That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing 👍
damn, G-sync is an even bigger must-have than I realized
edit the comment and add "Explanation: " to the first line
I dont care abt battery life just give me gsync
This answered questions I didn't know I had
Just as planned 😎
@@JarrodsTech, Thug l- no
*RUclipsr Life!*
Exactly, Right?!
Your videos are very informative, to the point and the quality is less to none! I hope you'll get to 1M subs by the end the of year mate! Thank you from the enthusiast community.
Thanks for the support!
wow, didnt expect to see such high differences between gsync and optimus, 20 fps is quite a lot
Yeah me either, which is why I wanted to make it into a video to show the results 👍
It depend... You want true graphic or more battery life.... Only noob don't know that... Gaming laptop don't stay far from power outlet anyhow...
@@campkira get a life
The difference is much larger in lighter games. Playing osu on my laptop screen gives 450 fps, while on an external monitor it clocks over 1800!
@@alwinmt i wish my laptop's gpu could output to the HDMI port, the thing is, osu runs on openGL (if you don't mark the compatibility option in the game's settings), and minecraft also runs on openGL, they run worse on the dedicated GPU than on the integrated from intel, minecraft with intel 300fps, minecraft with dedicated gpu 90-130fps + lots of input lag if your screen is 60hz.
nvidia optimus is the worst thing they could make for performance, not only lowers the native performance of the machine you play on, but also breakes openGL apps completly and gives room for an integrated gpu to compete in fucking minecraft
Didn't know this was a thing! Thank you Jarrod spreading the word out!
No problem!
Good video Jarrod. I concur, I have seen the same improvements with Gsync. Its good to see more laptops have the option to switch manually now, like my Triton 500. My old GT73 did the same. What I would like to see is Freesync using these Nvidia cards.
Cheers! Yeah having the option to pick which you want rather than being forced to one or the other seems to be best of both worlds 👍
@@JarrodsTech Honestly, the biggest letdown with the new Razer Blade 17. Would have been a day 1 purchase if it had switchable Optimus/G-sync. 17" without G-sync seems like an oversight.
Remember this when reviewing the new RB17! :)
Thanks for doing these tests jarrod. Kudos to you!
No problem!
It’s interesting because this makes laptops seem even better compared to their desktop counterparts over the years. It was always said how the xx80/xx70/xx60 is however much worse but part of it is optimus.
Good review! I didn't expect such a difference. G-sync is very cheap to implement on laptops, it's sad to see that most 2060, 2070 etc laptops comes with optimus. Lower batterylife is a downer, but I think most people who spend 1500USD or more would like fps over batterylife. On many g-sync systems optimus can be manually enabled aswell.
Thanks! Yeah I think having the option of both and rebooting to swap like the GX701 has is the best option, best of both worlds and the user can pick how they want to use it rather than being stuck with one or the other.
Ah, this explains things. I got my G5 RTX2060 a week or so ago, and tried the UV/OC (for some reason, I got less fps with OC applied). In Fallout 4 at nearly ultra I was averaging 40-60fps at best. Old monitor crapped out so I picked up an Acer VG270 and tested it with the G5... my FPS gained a substantial boost to 75 on average, with dips down to 60 at most in the worst areas of the game. Great analysis and explanation.
Thanks!
Great content. This was very informative and helpful
Thanks!
just found out about this "Hybrid mode" setting on my new Lenovo Legion 5..
I must say it is still quite impressive- while my battery is around 70% running on discrete GPU mode + battery saver I get around 3 hours battery life in nongaming activity, but with "hybrid mode" enabled + batery saver I get around 6 hours... In my opinion this is insane for 17" screen gaming laptop, not to mention the fans are so quiet you just don't hear anything.
I must say it is a bit of a pain in the ass that you need to restart system in order to switch between these modes, but I really see myself doing it in the future... sometimes I like to read books or watch movies, let's face it sometimes it is a bit too awkward to keep your laptop pluged in... this is a nice little feature that I will keep in mind.
Very interesting. I noticed this on my gx701 as well. The retail units come with gsync off and I noticed tearing where I was mostly playing Far Cry 5 and ESO. I enabled gsync and saw a nice frame boost (I didn't measure it but I think the ESO boost was nice). It confused me at first. Interestingly the Optimus running slower in some games actually increases the impact of tearing in the more intensive games so it kind of double downs on the negatives vs using a gsync mode.
On a separate note I returned my gx701 because the 9th gen Intel cpu version is coming around May 27th, but of note it's the same price but they are bumping the models RAM from 16GB to 32GB. So I'm guessing they decided to solder on 16GB vs 8GB previously. This really removes one of the biggest negatives the gx701 had IMHO. I loves my gx701 so definitely getting the new one. Interestingly they are offering (limited in certain regions apparently) an HDR screen variant supposedly with better contrast etc but no gsync. Was curious about that but gsync removes tearing and gives a fps bump (by bypassing the integrated pass through as you say) really is steering me away from any optimus only laptops. I'm curious about the performance of the new Razer Blade Pro 17 too, though don't think it has gsync, not sure if it uses optimus though so might see the same frame hit.
Oh that's interesting if the 9th gen has 16gb soldered now 👍 hope that's the case, let us know! I haven't seen G-Sync listed in the Razer Blade Pro specs yet, but also not sure if they're final as it's not out yet, I've asked my contacts about a review unit when available but no reply lol
Matthew Langley you returned your laptop why? I just ordered mine off amazon price went down $400 $2899 for 8th gen. 16gb is enough but u could always upgrade it down the road total of 40gb it’s possible.
@@NomanNizarAli So I returned mine since it was recent enough and I wanted the new gen CPU and the 32GB vs 16GB of RAM. To be clear I paid the full $3300, now as you said it's down $400 and I think that's an excellent deal.
With that said that model has to 8gb of soldered on memory and 8gb slotted. You can in fact upgrade that secondary module to 16GB or 32GB to get 24GB or 40GB total memory, with that said only 16GB will be dual channel via flex ever. With the new one I'm assuming it has 16GB soldered in (otherwise it seems the 32GB would be impossible basically) and that ups the cap to 32GB of dual channel memory.
16GB is plenty for gaming and as all the benchmarks show for all reviewers it outperforms pretty much anything with the same hardware. With that said though this is my personal laptop my profession has me using a 32GB work laptop where the memory is useful for running 10+ VMs. So for the choice was clear, return it and get the 8750h -> 9750h and 16GB (max dual channel ever) -> 32GB of dual channel memory (and 16GB more immediate memory) for the same price I already paid. Since I was able to return it and get all my money back (minus about $12 for the pro-rated extended warranty plan refund) it's basically a no brainer. Even then I almost didn't because I had mine set up and was really enjoying it, have to wait 3+ weeks now and I'm already missing it.
At $400 off I think that model is an excellent deal.
@@JarrodsTech Yeah will be interesting to see. Also of interest the new model is listed as weighing 5.7 pounds vs 5.95 pounds before. Not sure what to think of that. Xoticpc seems to list a "coming soon" gx701 with a 9880h, though I think that might just be a typo since I don't see that anywhere else.
Okay there are two questions left for me:
1- How do I know if my laptop's monitor is directly connected to the Nvidia GPU or the iGPU? (ie: Is it using Optimus while gaming or not?)
2- Is there another way of getting rid of the Optimus bottle-nick without having a G-Sync laptop or connecting the laptop to an external monitor?
I have the Eluktronics Mech-15 G2RX with an Nvidia RTX 2070 MQ.
Thanks in advance
Helly yeah man, that's what I've been trying to know for over 2 weeks, let me know if you find out something, it's very hard for me. :/
@@istvanmester same man damn I got a laptop with 240hz and I can't even utilize it without plugging in an external monitor..
@@Uchitagi why is that so?
1 You can watch on nvidia control panel, not exactly know where, but there will be a picture of it where is going your monitor.
2 i dont know that, watch yt videos
Wow. I didnt even expect, that performance difference will be that dramatic in some games.
I plan to buy Lenovo Y740 RTX2060, with G-Sync and now I'm even more confident with this choice. I'm still waiting for you to review this laptop though. GJ anyway.
Nice! I sent them a follow up email yesterday on the Y740, waiting to hear back. They needed them all for an esports event over the weekend, but now that's over I'm hoping I can borrow one!
Insane how well your videos are put together and the value of information provided with them.
Thanks!
Why do u not have more subs look at the quality the to the point vids and I love everything about the way i=u give info and all the info u give i hope u get 1million subs by the end of this year
Thanks for the support!
the difference in csgo performance is more than I get on my laptop
i felt this
very nice info, mate!! didn't know that the difference would be that far, gonna try mine later. Good job man!!
Thanks!
Nice Video like always Jarrod if you don't mind may i ask you something, it is asus strix hero ii rtx 2060 will have nvidia optimus or not? cause i really hate that technology that use on my laptop now (dell 7577) cause a lot of game are really have issues with this optimus.. so i really want to fin d a gaming laptop that will have options to disable that optimus, external monitor is not my thing cause i dont have room to put it also dont care about battery too as long that optimus can be disable.. hope you can help me tq.. if you don't mind please put all the list you know a gaming laptop that don't have optimus i will appreciate it 😁
Optimus - Great battery life
G-Sync - Smooth and tear free gaming
No best of both worlds ?
Yeah, also more FPS with G-Sync too, as shown here 😎
@@nicktan4530 MUX switch
@@genexis_x9040 what is that ?
It's what allows you to swap between Optimus and G-Sync.
It'd be nice if there were more laptops with an MUX switch allowing the user to opt between Optimus or G-Sync at will. I happen to have a 17.3" rebranded Clevo with RTX 2070 and 8750H that has this function.
Yeah I agree, having the option to pick which you want to use rather than being forced into one or the other is a good compromise.
What clevo model is it exactly...I've seen some clevo models that have really good specs with Gsync. But was skeptical about buying em since no one seems to do detailed reviews on them
Was waiting for this video....thanks a lot....
No problem!
Are these the laptops I'm looking for? :)
I've always preferred laptops that have g-sync over ones that don't. Ever since I got my G-sync monitor years ago it's tough for me not to have it. The difference to me is night and day. But screens have gotten alot better and 144hz and low response times are common these days. So it's less noticeable than when I first got it. I still prefer it though.
So how did you come up with this idea? I never thought about it before. . .but it makes so much sense.
Haha 😂 personally I don't mind the tearing aspect much, once you have high refresh rate and high FPS it's less noticeably to me, but yeah the extra performance adds another dimension to it. I knew some people preferred G-Sync for more reasons than just the adaptive sync aspect, honestly it was a bit of an accident that I came across the performance benefit because I benchmarked a game with and without G-Sync enabled and noticed the different results and thought "hey that's odd", so did some more research over a few weeks. Other people are talking about this, but it doesn't seem to be that widely known as far as I could tell, there are some threads about it on enthusiast forums so I figured it might be useful if I cover it in a video.
i have a msi katana gf66 11UC-478IN which is 144hz but my monitor is 60hz so how do i disable optimus and not use my monitor because i still need 144hz
Preach mate, more people need to be aware of this. A MUX switch between Nvidia Suckptimus and G-Sync/Freesync needs to become mainstream on gaming laptops. The more people know about this, the more vocal they are about it, the higher chances for MUX switches to trickle down to mainstream gaming laptops. Btw Nvidia "Optimus" is a can of worms, plenty of software issues and troubleshooting, it does not work perfectly, sometimes it will use dGPU for productivity/office software and drain the battery instead of using iGPU. It just doesn't work half the time. I see Nvidia Suckptimus only laptops as a major con. Bob of All Trades has more videos on how Suckptimus downgrades user experienced.
Thanks! Yeah I've heard about the problems with it, I guess it's just been pretty good over the last couple of years since I've been doing the channel as I haven't had any complaints with it, so yeah I just assumed it's improved over time. I've heard him talk all about how it sucks 😛
I have a laptop with a 8750H and GTX 1070. And the laptop only uses the 1070 during gaming. All other tasks it uses the intel integrated graphics. Laptop has no G-Sync so I use V-Sync while gaming.
Thank u for this vid Jarrod.
No problem!
Thank you for the information I've been looking for the answer! Cheers!
How do you actually disable it though? I couldn't see any tutorial in your video.
It will be disabled with g sync enabled
Excuse me kind sir? But I have a question.
How I connect my moniter with a 144hz and G-sync on my Razer Blade 15 Advanced (Rtx 2070 model)
The Razer Blade has a HDMI port, Mini DisplayPort and a Thunderbolt 3.
Which of these ports is available for me to use my monitor?
I have watch your videoes a lot and a massive Thank you!!! for helping me decide which gaming laptop I should get!
The Razer Blade 15 Advanced has HDMI 2.0b and mini DisplayPort 1.4, both of which should support 144Hz at 1080p. You can check what the spec supports here:
HDMI: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Refresh_frequency_limits_for_standard_video
There was a similar table for DisplayPort but it seems to have moved.
I turned off optimus because my 14th gen cpu was unstable AF. I would always have video related errors and BSODs
after turning it off, I haven't been experiencing problems thus far.
Dude thank you 🙏 for doing this and confirming what I experienced on my tongfang laptop before I returned it. What's sad is most people with Optimus laptops will never realize this loss unless they have an external monitor.
I can accept 5% but some of these are 15-20% difference or higher... Everyone should know this before spending likely over 1000$ on a laptop. The CSGO/DotA difference is insane and who knows if there are lots of other games seeing this kind of difference? 😑😠
I wish every laptop maker had switchable graphics. Better battery life with Optimus unplugged than switch modes when plugged in gaming for performance. Best of both worlds to me.
Having to reboot isn't practical, but an extra 15-20% fps is basically like getting an upgraded GPU since the laptop is basically running the GPU like a desktop would!! Thanks again for being one of the few to discuss/notice this! More people know about this the better👍
20% FPS hit is a sin, that's the equivalent of moving from a RTX 2060 Max-Q to a full powered RTX 2070. I don't mind rebooting at all in the age of blazing fast M.2 PCI-E 4 SSDs, it takes about 40 seconds of my time to either receive full performance of the GPU I paid full price, or instead take a 20% hit to increase battery life while on the move. Most users don't switch from productivity or browsing to heavy gaming every 5 minutes while on the go.
No problem! Yeah I wish they all had the option of swapping too, then you at least get to pick what you want to use rather than being stuck with one or the other.
Hey
Is there a way to disable optimus ?
Yes in Lenovo legion and some of the new asus devices
So how do I disable Optimus if I don’t have a G-Sync laptop?
What kind of laptop do you have ?
Hi Jarrod, I just bought the Legion 5Pi and it comes with a new technology called Advanced Optimus Technology, does this eliminate this problem?
That feel when you’re laptop has G-Sync 😏
Y740 life.
😎👍
Can't wait for mime to arrive.
ShredderGG desktops are better
BluMac The sky is blue
BluMac NO SHI* SHERLOCK.
i know im a year late but like, first of all, idk why you would want g sync, as it increases latency. Second of all, what you are explaining is counter intuitive to the entire point of laptops: to save energy and battery life. Yes you can get better FPS by overclocking the GPU, but your battery life goes down if overclocked on battery. Yes you can get better performance by tuning your CPU, but if the CPU takes more energy, then it will actually lower in battery life. There is a tradeoff: more FPS = less battery life. That applies per the same generation CPUs and GPUs respectively.
Hey can you do a list of what laptops can bypass optimus with a external monitor? 2020 modela
Hey, mate. Can you test with HDMI dummy plug? If using it, will it disable Optimus?
Great video! Quick question: For laptops that only have Optimus like the Dell you showcased, does changing the preferred GPU from "Auto-select" to "High performance NVIDIA processor" in the NVIDIA control panel have the same effect as disabling Optimus (for the laptop's display)?
No I don't think so, it just ensures that the Nvidia graphics render what ever it is that you've chosen, however in the end the signal still needs to go via the Intel integrated graphics which seems to be what causes the slow down.
@@JarrodsTech just to confirm, the gs65 8rf lost performance due to this? There is nothing you can do about it in most cases? Just plug in via hdmi? Fuck
Great video Jarrod. Are there any laptops out there that are smart enough to reboot on connection to an external monitor and vice versa?
Thanks! I haven't heard of that as a feature, though why would you need to reboot when an external monitor is plugged in? It's not like G-Sync / MUX switch where you need to reboot to swap between G-Sync and Optimus, you should just be able to plug in and ready to go.
You are my favourite Tech youtuber :) i like how you make alot of videos on laptops!
Thanks!
I'm sorry, I'm not an expert here, but I have a question. Enabled G sync results to smooth experience in the expense of battery life, right? So does it mean enabling G sync more frequently will lead to shorter life span of battery? Or it is consumes battery faster? I don't understand the consequences of it. And, does having a G sync makes a difference in price?
Why does this have only 20k views ?????!! more ppl need to know about this !
Yeah I wish more people knew!
Super useful information, as a G5 owner myself, though i think having a third monitor is worth the few frames i loose ^^
Glad it was helpful!
Um... why would you need an external monitor if laptop already has a g-sync? Isn't it that simple as just checking the boxes? Can someone clarify?
Nice video comparing the two, it helps alot. I'm sure that everyone would want a gsync display without the cost of battery life so hopefully it can be more efficient in the future. One question i do have is how the lenovo y740 work? I think in their control center you're able to manually turn gsync off and on. What does this mean about the battery? I'm sure you get more battery life with gsync off but would you be saving as much power as a laptop with nvidia optimus? If so that's the best solution to all of this. Just turn gsync on when gaming and off when not.
A quick little research that i did. The dell g3 15 inch has a 57whr battery so pretty similar to the lenovo legion y740. With the dell g3 you about 4 hours and a half of battery life while the y740 will get you a little less at 4 hours. The difference is probably because of the screen. If that's the case then what I previously mentioned really is the solution to this problem. All that's needed is for manufacturers to have such a feature in their control centers
Cheers! I haven't used the Y740 myself yet, but if you have the option of changing it, it would depend on what it's changing to. Is it changing to Optimus mode, or is it changing to only Intel graphics? What's more likely is it's changing to Optimus, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use the Nvidia graphics at all, when you open a game up it would just be using the Intel graphics. I think there is a little more involved than just having the software option, both graphics need to be wired to the display and there's a MUX switch which lets you change over after reboot.
Jarrod'sTech yea you're right, if only it was that easy to change things instead of going through the bios every time. Either way I'm sure there will eventually be a time where either optimus is good enough to not sacrifice performance. Hopefully manufacturers can work on this problem better in the future. Thank you for the reply, always appreciate it
Great video as usual. Do you know if the optimus laptops (like the razer blade 15) can use g-sync or freesync with an external monitor?
Yes, that should work, though I have not personally tested it myself I have read about others using that perfectly fine.
@@JarrodsTech Great thanks for the reply!
Thıs video saved my life man. Thank you. I recently had an Asus laptop with 11800h and rtx3060 but CPU was overheating on CPU demanded games like CS:GO, DOTA 2, BF1&5 and I was so disappointed on that. Since I use my laptop with a monitor at home, disabling optimus really gave me like %30 fps increase in dota 2. Is it possible to disable optimus with laptop's screen too?
It will depend on your laptop. I have made an updated video on Optimus here: ruclips.net/video/6mWies_4oDs/видео.html
@@JarrodsTech I have Asus FX506HM. And I will check that video thanks mate. Even if it's not possible this was extremely helpful and I'm so glad I can use more or cpu
How does bypassing Nvidia Optimus affect CPU and GPU temperatures?
I own a clevo p870dm3 and am aware of what this video covers. My laptop has g-sync and no option for optimus, and as strange as it may sound, having that option would be nice. With a 7700k and dual 1080's the thing is a beast...... that chews thru battery power like a stoned packman (mmmmmm munchies.......), but at the same time I got the thing for its performance and clevo left that option out for the exact reasons you described. What really needs to happen is that panel manufacturers need to design laptop panels with dual inputs so there is no performance hit, you can still use g-sync, and save battery life when just web browsing. Having the signal pass thru the iGPU seems like an over-engineered solution imposed by intel. Otherwise Optimus is just a gimmick, not a feature. I also own a much smaller ultrabook with an Nvidia dGPU and optimus option and it works just great for that little thing, so some of it does boil down to specific use-case, but on any 'high end' laptop, optimus is a garbage feature as it stands now. All that being said, somthing like that, if engineered into a product, should always be a selectable option. ANY laptop that I buy that uses it as an always on feature without the ability to switch would be immediately returned. And lets be honest; yes having to reboot is annoying generally, but with todays modern systems with a decent ssd, even my i5-400x (i forget specifically, maybe a 4200u, so a low power chip at that) ultrabook with an msata ssd only takes 20 seconds at most to restart, omg..... Because EVERYTHING has to be NOW NOW NOW!!!!!! . If developers were stuck on this iGPU passthru design, maybe they could design in a physical switch for it? Make it work only when powered off? Either that or use AI and inferrence to train a psychic neural network with the ability to predict what you need based on how you open the lid to your laptop?
Yeah I agree, I want to see it as an optional feature so then at least you have the option of choosing which you want to use rather than being forced one way or the other.
Is there a gsync laptop out there that has a good price/performance ratio while sporting slim bezels? I travel for a living and trying to keep weight at a minimum if possible so factoring that in is quite difficult. The y740 seems amazing but that power brick.... yikes! I'm also contemplating the non Sager NP8966 with the 2060). I mostly play Fallout 4, Starcraft 2 and Killer Instinct. Not sure how those titles use gysnc, etc. Love the channel and thanks for the help if you see this!
Thanks! I suspect the Clevo options, like the stuff Sager sells, would probably be the best option in terms of price, otherwise I have't tested many others that I'd consider to be priced well, all the recent machines I've had with G-Sync have all been top end models like this GX701 for example. I have heard the Y740 is pretty good though, I'm in the process of trying to get one for review at the moment.
the problem is that even having deactivated the management of the GPU by optimus, the clocking of the ram it remains divided by 2 compared to the mains supply (I checked with Ultimate boot disc (by dimitry primochenko)), even worse, the Ram memory heats up more and therefore loses its lifespan because of optimus
My Razer Pro 17 2020 doesn't have G Sync, but if I switch from Optimus to Dedicated GPU I was getting around 10% better performance in the Red Dead Redemption 2 benchmark, and around 15% better performance for Nier Automata. I didn't think Optimus was making *that* much of a difference...
Nvidia Optimus never works properly in my opinion. Even when using 3D CAD software, the laptop still tries to put most of the load on the Intel integrated graphics and the program lags, even though I have a great Quadro card in the computer. Integrated graphics should be disabled whenever the laptop is plugged in, period.
PS, this is one of the highest quality videos on the subject of Optimus so thank you.
MUX FTW
Hey Bob
👌
Yooo
I was between a toss up between Strix Scar III and GX701GWR and after seeing this video, I think I have made up my mind.
Thanks for this informative video!
No problem at all!
Will this work with monitors that are „only“ G-Sync compatible to the same extent? I own an Asus ROG Strix Scar III and I am planning on getting the new Viewsonic XG270. Do you believe I might experience the same boost in performance with this setup?
The gain is from bypassing Optimus, G-Sync is just a bonus, so any monitor will give you a performance boost if the laptop is stuck with optimus with its screen. Yes I'd expect that to boost performance.
@@JarrodsTech Thank you!
Great video man, I have a question, will the laptops are directly connected to the discrete gpu be able to use gsync on an external monitor?
Thanks! Yes they should be able to, as long as the screen supports FreeSync/G-Sync. This seems to be an old page, but it lists the GPUs that support G-Sync, and it seems to include laptop versions (eg 970M) www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/supported-gpus not sure if you have to use DisplayPort for it to work though.
@@JarrodsTech I also have a question what i cant figure out for almost a week. I've been watching you since i decided to buy the predator helios 300 1660ti 144hz cause you tested it it was damm good! But i want to buy an external monitor wit G-sync because of the performance boost and more comfort. However i have nly a HDMI port and i dont know if i convert the HDMI via display pot will get mi access the monitor full refresh rate and also the G-sync? Noobody could helped me solve this problem ind I'm not enougt smart to do it myself :(
@@istvanmester ok so hdmi doesn't support 144hz (if it's hdmi 1.4). you need to use your usb c port. however, be aware that your usb c port might be hard wired to your Intel Integrated GPU (using Nvidia Optimus to switch to your dedicated Nvidia GPU when you're playing games and such). so, you won't be able to use g sync, since the result is being compressed by the iGPU. the 144hz will in fact work, but not g-sync, unless you have a Multiplexer (which is rare among laptops).
@@StarTrackerChannel Thx for the reply!
Ibought my monitor and connected via Minidisplay->DisplayPort and my refresh rate and Gsync is also working.. However everytime once or twice if i start my laptot it seems like the external monitor stucks or stutter as hard as f*uck. Disabeling the Inter Grapich 630 seems woriking for the next start, but its not the best way ithink to solve this problem.
Thanks for that tip (close the laptop to use the dedicated gpu or something..), I use a magnet for keep it open and now i can use the NICE keyboard that my laptop have :D
Next step? weren't they doing this in the early to mid 2010s and then suddenly stopped?
How do you tell if your laptop is G-Sync capability?
So in other words enable G-Sync so that it uses the 3080 graphics instead of optimus??
Probably related to CPU TDP more than anything. With Intel gpu getting a load it'll give less power to the cpu cores hence limiting performance.
With gsync on you're giving all cpu tdp to the cores rather than divide between iGpu and cores.
My theory is especially supported by cs go and Witcher 3 benchmarks. Former being more cpu intensive gets a huge boost while the latter has always been a gpu heavy title so core power draw matters.
Anyone on Optimus can put Intel iGpu on power saving mode and undervolt their cpu including the iGpu for a boost this'll have similar effects to increasing TDP limit without the cons.
To support my points if I have a browser game running on iGpu my performance in cpu intensive games (cs go, Arma 3, gmod) suffer despite having 3.9 ghz on cores anyway. 6 cores need as much power as they can get and iGpu steals that away.
It could be related, though I was testing with higher settings to make the game tests as GPU bound as possible. There's some more information in the pinned comment though.
@@JarrodsTech thanks that's a good pin, I'm wondering did you use Windows Full-screen optimizations on or off in the games tested? It's on by default, can't be globally disabled and results in performance loss in Full-screen apps BUT apparently gsync bypasses this so it might be adding to the massive gains from some of the testing.
www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/10/
Check the link above, I've no way to test this since my laptop is Optimus only and I don't have a gsync external monitor.
Wow these are fascinating results. I wonder if this affects frame time since everything has to come out through the CPU when Optimus is on.
Hmm yeah I didn't look too much into the 1% low results to see if the overall percentage is higher than the average FPS, the data is there so I guess someone could check that if they wanted 😅
Lmao. You've done enough testing on this. This is great though. Tuis can affect future decisions. I mean 10 to 15% difference is kind of a big deal
Yeah it is, I talk about the difference a bit more in the GX701 vs Razer Blade video, basically the GX701 comes out ahead in all games tested due to this.
Optimus is by far one of the worst things Nvidia has ever made. Not being able to directly render to your laptop screen from your GPU is absurd, with no way to disable this on 90% of laptops.
Didn't know this was a thing - I need to go away and test my Dell G7 7790 with RTX 2060 on an external monitor now
@Random Dumbass negligible. Not worth doing
I am confused. Should or should not use G-Sync? If i only use my laptop montior without external monitor and i have a pretty powerful laptop with optimus off. I got an Nvidia update today that auto turned it on... I never use my laptop without power cable. I have 2 laptops currently. A Lenovo Legion 7 16IAX7 laptop and an MSI GS66... My lenovo updated today and auto turned on and now im afraid to update nvidia on my other laptop >.> so basically my question is how do i mininise fps, or potential performance issues, which option should I choose? Im a potato send help pls.
So just by setting on the G-sync setting, you could get a 15% increase in performance because it will forced the desactivation of Optmius, am i right ?
Hey jarrod! Can please review these two laptops? The asus tuf fx505 with the 1660ti and the asus zephyrus rog ga502 with the 1660ti as well, we want to see budget oriented laptops more! And to compare these two to see which one's better!
I'm trying to get both, ASUS just had the launch event in Australia yesterday for the new stuff so hopefully not too long before I can get them, I've been asking for the last few weeks.
Hi, I'm using a hp omen 15 with a rtx 2060/i7 10750/300 mhz screen with no gsync. I want to connect a gsync capable monitor and enable gsync. Will this model enable gsync? Do I need to keep the laptop closed to do so? Do I connect with the hdmi port if so or thunderbolt? Thanks been watching your vids here and on your laptop channel for a year, very helpful.
Interesting results! But shouldn't it be "Optimus" vs "Optimus disabled" (or "dGPU only") rather than "G-Sync" ? What has G-Sync to do with Windows only seeing and using the dGPU (other than it makes G-Sync possible, but it could be disabled and you'd get the same result in term of fps) ?
Perhaps, but I felt that G-Sync is more widely recognized as a brand name and something that is actually advertised with laptops. I haven't really seen laptops been advertised as not using optimus and just using the discrete graphics only, is there a term for that? I do note multiple times in the video that the requirement is having the discrete graphics connected to the display and not G-Sync, G-Sync just happens to require this.
@@JarrodsTech G-Sync is surely highly recognizable but in my opinion inappropriate, because if you connect a non G-Sync monitor (or simply disable G-Sync in the NV Control Panel) you will still have the same gain in fps (with vsync off). It's really Optimus on vs off. There is no catch all term for Optimus off. My BIOS setting calls it "Discrete Graphics". And it calls Optimus "Hybrid Graphics".
did not expect that a 2000$ laptop only have a single channel ram config
So does enabling G-Sync and restarting the laptop just turn off Optimus? And also if I connect an external monitor with a displayport and keep the laptop screen open will the External monitor have better performance than the laptop or will the laptop bottleneck the performance?
Why do they make it so hard for me to turn off optimus.
Because you can’t. It’s physical.
@@kingeling oh that’s fantastic 😭 it messes up my games
@@X3N1TH You can connect an external monitor tho
@@kingeling I have one, what’s that do?
@@X3N1TH bruh did you even watch the video
anyways when you connect an external monitor to your laptop it directly communicates with the dgpu so it's faster than its data going through the igpu which is connected to the laptop's integrated display
Edit: of course you're gonna have to change some settings in the nvidia/amd gpu control panel
Plus right now I am interested in MSI designs and how it has a fan control center while Dell G5 5590 doesn't and I feel comfortable to have fan control and I really really really like MSI designs. SO, I decided and save up to buy the new MSI GF63 9SC. Jarrod, can you review the MSI GF63 9SC please?
Cool, hope it goes well. At this point I'd be happy to get any new MSI laptop lol, I haven't had a new model in 2019 yet 😢
My friend suggested searching this video up because my 1660ti mobile isn't really performing as it should be able to. I'll try this for bettter FPS.
Hi! Is there any laptops availeble with the following specs: AMD Ryzen 9 5900, 3080
grafic card, 240-360 hz 1080p monitor, Mux switch (advanced optimus), With
TDP/TGP (or what it is called) 125-150W? If not, have you heard any rumors regarding
a laptop coming soon with the specs listed above?
Why does Optimus exist then? Battery life? For a gaming laptop that is always plugged into the wall? Does not make any sense to me.
Agreed
Does Disabling iGPU in bios help in fps gains in a laptop without mux switch,Jarrod ?
Jarrod are you going to make a full review of this laptop?
The GX701? It's already up here: ruclips.net/video/h-RANuMwU0c/видео.html
@@JarrodsTech oppps sorry I didn't check it lol thanks!
May be a silly question-
I don't play games. Recently got an external monitor (supports refresh rate upto 165) and I could enable Gsync.
Would it help to achieve variable refresh rate for day to day office work/editing/media consumption if I don't want to fix refresh rate to say 144 ?
Or Gsync is totally useless for me? Would it save my laptop battery if I completely disable it?
Hi, do you think this works with a ryzen/radeon laptop? Will you still get a performance bump connecting an external monitor and closing the lid?
Can I use a headless display to get the same improvement?
Great, just yesterday i was kinda disappointed bcs my gl703vm got no integrated gpu so no optimus = short battery life
Now im not disappointed anymore
If you spend most of the time plugged into wall power anyway then it's probably a better option in terms of performance!
Haha yeah i only use it for presentation outside of gaming
It has short battery life tho about 2.5hours only
Is it true that disabling Optimus will disable free sync? Why is this, if true? Strix Scar 2022 does not have g sync, so if you turn off Optimus, and it loses free sync, there is no vrr/adaptive syncing at all?
Im on a HP Pavilion Gaming 15-dk1056WM, how do i know if this have an output connected to the nvidia graphics? All i know is that it has a USB C output that can transfer info through a DisplayPort. Idk what that means btw.
Does getting an external moniter with g-sync compatible yield the same result?
So basically if I want more battery life I should go for a non g sync laptop?
Yes, or one where you can enable Optimus.
I have a legion y530 with gtx 1060. I've tested several configurations with assassins creed odyssey benchmark and i did not see any of that performance differences. I have an 144hz display but i use it at 60hz(CRU) to avoid judder at 60fps and 30 fps, since i play with vsync.
I've tested with the built in display at 720p, 1080p, maximum settings, full screen, borderless, and the same thing with an external monitor with the internal disabled in the intel control panel. Tested with the lid closed also. The difference in average fps is about 1 or 2 fps maximum(52 vs 51). There's a biggest performance difference if the benchmark has a cloudy day or a sunny day. So, optimus does not make a diffence on my case.
I have all battery saving features turned off on nvidia and intel control panels. I also have prefer maximum performance enabled on nvidia control panel since otherwise the gpu frequency is always too low and causes stutters. Latest drivers and windows 10.
On a side note, where optimus gives me issues is with vsync and frame pacing(judder). It only works if enabled in game and in exclusive fullscreen. I also have to use frame limiters to achieve stable framerates. Sometimes i have to use rivatuner, other times nvidia profile inspector and sometimes both. I also have to try nvidia profile inspector limiter v2 and v3, since sometimes one works fine and the other doesn't. And i have created a custom resolution at 60hz because using the screen at 144hz does not allow for a smooth experience using 60fps or 30fps, since i like to play the games locked at a stable framerate.
my monitor is not disabling optimus HELP! it says its running on my igpu
does this mean that once intel improves their iGPU for their H series processors the fps for gaming laptops using these chips will become closer to those not using optimus?
Possibly.
5:21 85% FPS difference. Wow that's crazy. G-Sync all the way XD.
Yeah that was pretty crazy, but really depends on the game.
@@JarrodsTech how about csgo?
I'm pretty uninformed and educated with computers these days but using the bios to switch to dGPU if available, is that the same as what you've shown here to completely override optimus? Thanks 👍
So do I have to just enable gsync for this to work? I have a HP omen 17 rtx 2070 with gsync. Does that mean I just have to enable gsync and I'll get better performance or is this just for Asus products?
You don't need to enable G-Sync, you just need to be on Nvidia graphics (this is a requirement to enable G-Sync in the Nvidia control panel). If you want to confirm, check task manager performance tab, Intel graphics should not show up there.
I wish I knew this before buying my laptop.
I got the old Helios 300 (16gb ram+i7-7700hq+GTX1060) because i found it at a good price, but I notice that I get much better fps when I plug it to a external monitor or tv. I actually saw people commenting about this but I didn't knew it was such a big deal.
From the games you tested, I only tried CSGO and Shadow of Tomb Raider, CSGO also showed a huge difference in performance in mine, while tomb raider a smaller but still a lot more stable. Other games have like 10-30 more fps and less stutter, but even though I play most games at 60fps locked, its still disappointing to know that to get the most of the laptop I need to connect it to a external display.
Unfortunately, I can't disable the Intel gpu and keep only the gtx, the internal display still works but it causes games to run at 1fps for some reason.
Is there any workaround about this?
I'm wondering if upgrading my ram to dual channel will decrease this difference, right now I have one 16gb stick cl17 2400mhz, was thinking to get two kingston hyperx 8gb cl14 2400mhz.
But if it doesn't make much difference, I'll end up selling this laptop later.
I would be ok if the difference was like 5-10 fps, In understand why optimus exists, but the difference in some games is too big.
Another problem I found, is that when I connect the HDMI with laptop already on, and change to display the external display only, I get some stutter in everything that its not full screen, sometimes opening steam or start menu fixes this, others I have to restart the laptop or the igpu. Did you found similar problem when doing this tests?
I'm unmotivated to play in the internal screen now.
Not that I'm aware of, just need to use an external display if it bypasses Optimus. I have not experienced that problem myself. I will probably do a video specifically about external screen performance in the future at some point.
@@JarrodsTech Thanks, this should really be more discussed.
is there an amd equivalent to optimus? i want to know cuz i also want to know if i would get an fps boost if i connected my full amd laptop to an external monitor
Hi Jarrod! Does disabling optimus shorten my laptops lifespan?
No.
@@JarrodsTech thanks Jarrod!