When the game of the year orchestra plays all the contenders back to back…. Super Earth followed by…… Bow Wow Wow. We need the lifestream to create an alternate reality where that happens, because I know we won’t get it in this reality.
I guarantee they’re saving Cloud and Aerith’s water scene for part three when he finally regains his true personality. It’s going to hit so much harder. The ending is meant to be confusing. We’re now in Cloud’s shoes as the unreliable narrator. Red XIII’s real voice was first introduced at the inn in Junon. He is talking to Aerith in his real voice til Cloud walks in. Maximillian actually sums it up perfectly. Cloud is going to have a moment like Dr. Cox from Scrubs in the Brenden Fraser episode. He believes his friend is alive, and they get to the funeral and Dr. Cox finally sees the truth and forgives himself for what happened. He couldn’t accept it so he fooled himself.
There’s a major problem with this theory though, Cloud regaining his identity during the lifestream sequence with Tifa is a HUGE story point in the OG; in fact it’s what makes FF7 the story it is and w/o it there is no FF7. If you take that whole segment and make it all about Aerith you’re essentially destroying the main focal point of the story. If Aerith is dead then she needs to stay off the screen; her death in the OG was powerful because you never see or hear from her again; if she starts showing up again as a ‘force ghost’ or in flashbacks your taking that impact away. If she’s dead keep her out of it, if she’s alive somewhere else it needs to known early on and not left a mystery. It’s really that simple.
@theonecalledlamorak6446 cloud still needs to find himself, that's not going to be taken away in that scene, they're just going to have to add his grief for aerith into the mix too. It's a powerful part of who he is, he's a guy that represses trauma so much that he doesn't know what's real. What he does with aerith isn't too dissimilar to how he handles the memory of zack. He pretends aerith is fine and flat out deletes zack from his brain so he doesn't have to deal with it. Let's face it, in the og they go snowboarding straight after her death. The party never grieves, and she's rarely brought up again. A game with this level of character dynamic/writing/ performance can't get away without acknowledging her death in a significant way.
FF7 rebirth feels like a culmination of everything Square Enix has built for the last decade. From 15 to KH3 to Remake to 16. I really believe that each of those titles have contributed in one way or another to Rebirth
The fact that they managed to use Aeriths iconic scene as a plot point to turn the story even darker while saving its emotional payoff for the final installment is genius. The amount of catharsis from this, Clouds lifestream moment, and finally having questions answered will make the wait completely worth it.
Man, the set has genuinely never looked better. I think you guys really hit your stride with these graphics and everything. Also loved the conversation, and having Imran on the show is always hype
I, too, found myself with the can-feline bæstie. At first I was disappointed, to be honest, but I somehow lucked into the most plot-heavy date, who’d have thought?
Wait you don’t think they have much plot to do after rebirth? Bruh most of the OG plot happens after the forgotten city haha and also they confirmed that Glen was a character made for rebirth before the mobile game
I think I'm one of the few people that liked Remake way more than Rebirth. Almost 100% due to the forced ubisoft open world stuff. I honestly can't think of a single game where the whole climb the tower and then go through a checklist thing has made the game better. If they handled the open world a bit differently or even just had the game be more traditionally linear I think it would have been much better (Story, combat and characters were just as great as Remake though if not better)
I feel a similar way. I liked the characterization/character moments in rebirth because we got more of them. But the style of open world didn't work for me
@@TheKennyboy92 Exactly, but even without the Sephiroth influence Blessing doesn’t understand that Cloud didn’t have a normal childhood before Sephiroth even came into the picture such as growing up without his father in the picture, being a child soldier for Shinra, and not to mention Cloud very much being introverted and being labeled as a loner by the other children in Nibelheim other than Tifa (there’s nothing wrong with being introverted) Then throw all the trauma from what that happens in the Nibelheim incident and in crisis core. It’s like bruh, Cloud is a deeply broken individual for reasons that were out of his control and then you add the Sephiroth influence you mentioned and it’s a recipe for disaster. It’s wild to ignore all of that on a final fantasy 7 spoilercast.
@@thevaultdweller8717 Exactly! I think it's a bit of semi-joking jealousy about Aerith and Tifa being so into Cloud that makes Blessing blind to the fact that he's not a bad guy.
My theory on Aerith is that Cloud experienced a timeline where he deflects the attack. But the party when they barge in experience the timeline where she died. Evidence? Cloud sets Aerith down rather neatly before engaging Jenova, but after the fight the rest of the party see her slumped on her side, because to them she was killed.
Could be for sure. But I think its more likely Cloud is either imagining Aerith is still alive (repressing her death), or Aerith is feeding him a illusion of her still being alive to make sure Cloud doesn't turn into a full Sephiroth puppet. This is also supported by the fact that the Aerith & Cloud vs Sephiroth battle takes place in his mind. Look at the symbolism that happens when Aerith, she "cleanses/purifies" the surroundings (His mind), turning it from black to white and filled with water
@@HXXXXWXXN I disagree personally, to me all the white void stuff is the "Seven Seconds Until the End" place that we saw in Remake. Hopefully we'll find out later!
@@KBABZ Right. But that's before Aerith appears. The end of remake also takes place inside Cloud's mind :) Its like the end of OG, the final battle vs Sephiroth is inside Clouds mind
There’s no actual evidence that any of that is happening in Clouds mind, that’s a Maxdood theory thing. We really don’t know what’s going there with the white void. Plus Aerith thanks Cloud for “what he did back there” and she could only be talking about blocking the sword. I personally find it hard to believe they would lay out all this groundwork for multiple timelines/worlds just to turn around suddenly and say “oh never mind it’s all just in his head” lol. I really want OP to be right and that Aerith is still alive somewhere, to me that’s more exciting rather than treading on the original story footprints but no one really knows what’s up for sure.
I was worried this was gonna be a bunch of multiverse talk like most mainstream spoilercasts. So glad y’all are tapped into the dreamscape aspect of it all.
Can you be mad at other casts for doing that though? The multiple timelines angle isn’t a theory anymore. It’s confirmed to be a pert of the storyline for the trilogy.
Nothing is confirmed, but no I’m not mad at anyone. It’s just nice to hear Kinda Funny going down the rabbit hole of extremely deliberate clues left by the devs.
@@Joshiepoo2525 Bro. Sephiroth says point blank to Cloud “Behold. The true nature of reality. When the boundaries of fate are breached, new worlds are born.” What do you think he was talking about? Pumpkins? That is confirmation that the multiverse theory is in play somehow. How could it not be?
@@zachm2331 And Aerith calls her world a dream. There’s more to this. “Worlds” can mean anything. Aerith touches the lifestream and senses Zack. Cloud senses him in dreams. Cosmo Canyon NPC describes post-death spiritual planes made of memories and dreams. It’s all there.
Just finished the game and came here for the spoilercast. SUCH AN AMAZING GAME! I'm a Bless on this matter, never played the original and experienced he great story. INCREDIBLE soundtrack. Wacky moments. Amazing!
I also think ya missed where sephiroth converged all the worlds and is not a multiverse timeline. There isn’t a timeline everyone is happy. Sephiroth explained that every world ends up fading away. They are all apart of one livestream
Nothing against developers, but I'm happy we just have the crew and not someone who worked on the game on the spoilercast. I feel like when they have a dev, the conversation is less about how they feel about the overall game, and more so talking to the dev about the game. Almost like an interview.
I think that the materia that "turned black" is actually Aerith's materia. And Cloud turns it black himself - with his grief/sorrow, same as the Gi did. Under the dissociation that he deals with, there's depression. That's why the materia transforms right after his defence mechanism seems to break (headache/flashes). Despair breeds nihillism (if the life doesn't seem worth it, why should the universe go on at all?). Maybe the end og the world ("Sephiroth's reunion") is the only way to be reunited with Aerith? This is also how the enging connects to Advent Children - that's the same emotion Cloud had to deal with in the film
They're going all in on the lifestream sequence in Part 3. So much so that they're willing to take away from some of the impact of Aerith's death to make this sequence even more impactful.
I'll be honest, I wish Emran wasn't part of this conversation. I like Emran, seems like a great fun guy, but when it comes to these type of things, when I go back and look at who was right on the nail and who's takes were off base, the one big pattern I see is people's perceptions of gaming companies and their business strategies and using them as a reflection of what people are doing with story, characters, gameplay, etc......those are always the guys who are off base in hindsight, or at least, they are far more likely to be than those who don't, regardless of person or game. I feel like almost every game that has a prominent company behind it this is what Emran does, and he does a lot of speculating instead of actually explaining to the guys who don't know what's going on, Seems like it has kinda hurt their experience as they have gone thru the game, and definitely think the constant insisting of the marketing strategies being the driving motive for the game direction, the others have absorbed it over time, and turn a could-have-been very colorful experience somewhat grey for them. Thing is, most of the time they do this it's just because they don't quite get what is actually happening in the game. Shame really. And IDK, I get it with MTX and all that but....kinda feel like constantly reducing games to their company business strategies is unfair to all the people who actually work on the games.
My only issue is with feeling little emotion to Aerith’s death and missing the iconic body in the water scene but if they do that scene how I think they will with Cloud remembering then it will be worth it
They give you that emotional aerith moment in that dream where she hugs him and basically tells him bye and you see sephiroth walking in and it was very emotional for me. I think we will get those other scenes in the next game once cloud accepts who he is
Honestly how i would describe the game is that it feels like one giant good side quest. Pros: Gameplay, music, character interactions with each other & boss fights. Cons: Too many mandatory minigames to progress the story, Terrible pacing nothing major really happens until chapter 8 or 9 which is 35+hrs into the game, & a stupid convoluted multiverse storyline.
I dont understand their hate for Cloud. They talked about how much he sucked in the spoiler free review so I braced myself to dislike him, but most instances of him being a bad person are due to Sephiroth's influence and I just cant put that on him. He's being manipulated.
Listening to theorizing going on, are any of the KF guys familiar with the Lifestream White/Lifestream Black short stories? I've found them helpful for understanding the general framework of what's happening in the remake series
oh, we will get the death scene and the putting her in the lake and stuff. Remember, we're Cloud, his Brain is in denial. We will get those in part 3 most likely
re: the Reno casting. I believe it is Japanese tradition to not recast a character when the actor dies. I believe they did the same thing for Phil in Kingdom Hearts 3, which is why he was uncharacistically quiet (correct me if I am wrong). I think it was an intentional choice to not not use him as much in this game and I think they reused old lines the JP actor recorded. Hopefully they consider using him more in the final part because it would be sad not to see him be important again.
Gus is the guy in corral prison I am a ff7 nerd first game that made me feel something back in 1997 at 9. Was like wow this goes harder than Mario and Zelda lol
The problem with the Whispers storyline and changing fate is that its confusing for none fans and lots of fans just wanted a remake, so a lot of people are either confused or not getting what they want. I am not sure why anyone at Square thought it was a good idea.
They wanted to keep people on their toes right? So you’re upset at how confusing and convoluted it is, but you missed all the context leading up to it she was always going to die. Pay attention more to all the scenes in the game leading up to it. This was all very intentional. Her fate was sealed but there’s other things that are definitely at play here that weren’t before. We’ll get our answers. What’s a third game with no mystery?
Its seems you guys are for the yellow tape. People get mad when they feel hand held but when there is no yellow tape people get mad that its too hard. It's hard to make everyone happy.
Let me start with: I loved 95% maybe even 99% of Rebirth. From the characterization to the modernization to the relationship dynamic changes to the even the multiversal elements. However the ending is currently in tbd based on how things go in part 3, though regardless I still hate the "reality rewrite" in order to still check off the box of "Aerith's death". After they had Cloud arrive on time, have the knowledge of her being in danger ahead of time, having broken away from Fate, and even being strong enough to deflect Sephiroth's blade. Every single thing that people have wanted to be in play to avoid any semblance of the death. Instead reality gets rewritten by Sephiroth and things seemingly go between branchlines, where she is saved and not. If it goes that route and Cloud did save Aerith in another branchline or even that Aerith somehow entered a stated of transcended beyond life or death leading to her continuing to live and become what Maximilian Dood refers to as "Omni Aerith"? Cool, I'll see Rebirth's ending as a means to a good end route. However if it doesn't and puts it all on Cloud's mental instability, while also backhand slapping the sizable part of the fandom that wants Aerith to live in this version by putting in some "reality rewrite" to override all the "Aerith lives" flags as well as reversing course from Remake to acting like Fate can't be altered? To hell with it and I'll never touch the game again, as well as forever labeling it & part 3 as the worst of the Compilation (which says something given the wavy quality of its entries). I want to believe that it was a way to keep to what they said in the story hitting the same beats/check off boxes, while also maintaining their own route as well via presenting the case of Schrodinger's Aerith. Where she technically can be seen as having died but also not, cause branchlines. Personally I do think it'll be the first given the various evidence and quotes from people working on the project, as well as the fact that they're continuing to maintain the Schrodinger's Aerith aspect. Regardless Remake left me hyped for Rebirth for years, Rebirth on the other hand has left me in the state that part 3 has to earn back my investment and hype instead. There is no overwhelming hype towards anything in part 3, just wanting to see how they handle Aerith. Part 3 needs to go back to what they did in Remake in embracing the "unknown journey" and originality aspects, rather than being chained by OG that already exists. My interest and investment was pulled by R-trilogy because of the new path it offered, which is the thing that's keeping me with an eye towards part 3. Not the idea of just seeing the same old fatalistic story. Also the knowledge about Cloud's mental state could absolutely be a tool in being used in the writer's toolkit too. Namely that they put him at the center of the differing branchlines and seeing the truth of the world (the seam in the sky, Aerith alive, multiverses existing, etc), which makes certain people wonder if its not all just in his head. For them to then to reveal that no he's legit seeing things as they are, there is a living Aerith; there is a seam in the sky; there are multiverses; etc and the one able to know all of it happens to be someone with a very fractured mind. Also on the note of why Sephiroth is so interested in Cloud, I do think that can be answered a bit if one thinks of Advent Children if you take his words as literal and R-trilogy being a sequel. Namely that so long as he remains in Cloud's memories he will never truly die, just be waiting for another chance to manifest. I can definitely say in an ideal world I'd be able to have Tifa and Aerith go on the Gold Saucer date, cause R-trilogy so far has made me want them to be together romantically more than either of them w/ Cloud (and ftr in OG I'm still Cloti though one that acknowledges the issues with it shown in AC). That's in part born from loving both of them and also just because of how they're written in R-trilogy. If anyone I'd have had Cloud w/ Jessie cause those two actually work w/ her being very forward w/ things.
I like the game. I’m not exactly loving it. This game just feels so…safe. I can’t really describe it. I feel like I’ve played this game 100 times before. I hate that I have to go through combat simulations to get the powerful summon materia of this world now. I freaking got LEVIATHAN because my FF7R save file was present. I hate how this game will NOT let me find anything organically while exploring without feeling the need to hold my hand via some stupid bird leading me to secret areas. It basically threw everything in the Ubisoft playbook at us. It feels like cookie cutter open world slop with FF7 dressing on it. I just wonder if there was another way to make this game feel special. But Square probably wanted to go after the lowest common denominator with this one.
I think the “Ubisoft open world design” criticism has been overdone to the point it’s meaningless now. I guess if a game has open world design mechanics it’s a Ubisoft game now? Can you tell me a Ubisoft game that has this level of variety of gameplay content, and this much content, at this high quality? The game also isn’t safe at all. It dares to take the story in ways that, while interesting, have potential to piss off a lot of OG purist fans. I respect your opinion, but I don’t really get it. Wish the game was as good for you as it is for me and many others. But I respect where you’re coming from even though I don’t agree, I just don’t get it.
@@Erikthedood Well generally if a lot of people feel a certain way based on their experience, there must be something to the claim. On the whole, there is an over saturation of open world games, which is a different can of worms entirely. But most of my time has been spent trudging from one highlighted point of interest in the regions to another. Mindlessly checking off map markers. Down to the Ubi towers. You really can’t deny how familiar and sanitized it feels from many recent games. I’m still working my way through the game mind you, and I think it’s a good game (when Chadley isn’t interrupting my gameplay every 60 seconds). I’m pretty much counting on the story beats to carry the game.
@@Erikthedood "Ubisoft open world design" means a specific thing that you don't seem to grasp. Ubisoft open world design is a design pattern where you're most incentivized to find towers to reveal points of interest on the map, and the world offers no further objectives outside of those heavily telegraphed points of interest. Ubisoft open world games are a flawed design because it explicitly disengages a player from the open world; the rest of the space outside of the points of interest might as well not exist. This is why open world was considered a negative point about a game until 2017 when Breath of the Wild showed the industry what an open world game should be, and finally delivered on that promise properly in the AAA space
u know u can go to the counter and say u wanna skip the tournament right? however playing the tournament gives u the awesome nanaki in uniform scene and it's so funny
I had to double check that I didnt accidentally skip WAY ahead in the video because 10 minutes in and you guys are talking about the ending. You should really start your spoilercasts from the beginning of the game and discuss your way to the end. Its like watching an In Review and you go straight to the end of Endgame or something. Work on it.
Firstly, what’s with the attitude dude? These people owe you nothing, even if you do pay a subscription, there are much better ways to offer constructive criticism. And secondly, I’ve watched a tonne of spoiler casts, specifically for rebirth, and a majority of them, people jump directly into talking about the ending, because it’s such a big deal, and everyone wants to talk about it when they finish. Also, all the other ones where they do go point by point, chapter by chapter end up being like 4 goddamned hours long and this is not that kind of production. They just wanted to talk about their overall impressions, their favourite parts, and that crazy ending, and they had to keep it around an hour to an hour and a half. Chill.
I’m a huge FFVII original fan, but I’m on the same page as Blessing. The game in my opinion would be way better without the weird crap they added. The core story is what I enjoy and I feel like they shoehorned in the weird crap so you can fight Sephiroth at the end of each part.
I grew to really dislike this game. I had a good time up until the 3rd region and I just couldn't handle rinse and repeat open world blah quests. That said, I like to hear theories on how they think Square is going to bring this Kingdom Hearts BS story telling to a close. Spoiler, they won't. It won't be satisfying in anyway shape or form. It might be fun though!
Honestly I don’t understand why they’re doing this whole Star Trek 09 Requel story with this remake trilogy, like What’s the Point? it doesn’t add anything, this whole alternate timeline multiverse Kingdom Hearts crap. Just remake FF7 & retell that story, that’s all we wanted.
It doesn't matter, 95% of remake and rebirth follow the original story anyway. The 5% is different but then again the characters are in the same situation so I don't understand what you complaining about.
@@SmashBrosAssemblethe point is it's expanding the story so people familiar with the original are also experiencing something fresh. They're just retelling the story and using the toybox of the expanded compilation as they do so.
That's what some wanted, not all. I want what Remake set up and Rebirth depending on how things go moved forward, a new good end route to go alongside the OG's bad end route. THAT is what I wanted, not the same old story retold; been there seen that and the edgelords that obsess over it enough. The point if it goes the way I hope it does is to offer up a good end route for FF7 after 20+ years of having the same bad end route, while also incorporating in later elements naturally. It adds a TON to the story and if they do finally deliver on the good end route it can serve as a bookend to the entire compilation that finally puts the other side of the message in place. "death is a natural thing that should be accepted not feared" + "life is something that should be valued and fought like hell to preserve". inb4 anyone tries to start talking about loss I'll just head that off with having lost 3 grandparents over the years, the last one literally this week, and having a parent that's going through cancer treatment; so don't even come at me from that angle it won't go well for you. I'm also someone that's followed FF7 since a few years after OG and gone through each of the available to the US games within the compilation, so again don't try me on my "devotion to FF7".
FF7 Rebirth is an instant classic. As someone who never played the OG (crazy I know) I love the remake project and has become an all-time favorite.
I can't stop playing it
Its not a remake project. These are sequels.
@@BasketCase-rr7tx ok
At the Game Awards they better play Bow Wow Wow Battle version while Squeenix is coming up to accept their awards
When the game of the year orchestra plays all the contenders back to back…. Super Earth followed by…… Bow Wow Wow.
We need the lifestream to create an alternate reality where that happens, because I know we won’t get it in this reality.
I guarantee they’re saving Cloud and Aerith’s water scene for part three when he finally regains his true personality. It’s going to hit so much harder. The ending is meant to be confusing. We’re now in Cloud’s shoes as the unreliable narrator.
Red XIII’s real voice was first introduced at the inn in Junon. He is talking to Aerith in his real voice til Cloud walks in.
Maximillian actually sums it up perfectly. Cloud is going to have a moment like Dr. Cox from Scrubs in the Brenden Fraser episode. He believes his friend is alive, and they get to the funeral and Dr. Cox finally sees the truth and forgives himself for what happened. He couldn’t accept it so he fooled himself.
Damn, the Dr Cox comparison is perfect haha
There's also a brief moment where he uses his normal voice when seeing Aerith and Tifa in swimwear!
@@KBABZI didn’t notice that on 1st playthrough but on every rewatch of that scene I chuckle. His reaction is so funny.
There’s a major problem with this theory though, Cloud regaining his identity during the lifestream sequence with Tifa is a HUGE story point in the OG; in fact it’s what makes FF7 the story it is and w/o it there is no FF7. If you take that whole segment and make it all about Aerith you’re essentially destroying the main focal point of the story.
If Aerith is dead then she needs to stay off the screen; her death in the OG was powerful because you never see or hear from her again; if she starts showing up again as a ‘force ghost’ or in flashbacks your taking that impact away.
If she’s dead keep her out of it, if she’s alive somewhere else it needs to known early on and not left a mystery. It’s really that simple.
@theonecalledlamorak6446 cloud still needs to find himself, that's not going to be taken away in that scene, they're just going to have to add his grief for aerith into the mix too. It's a powerful part of who he is, he's a guy that represses trauma so much that he doesn't know what's real. What he does with aerith isn't too dissimilar to how he handles the memory of zack. He pretends aerith is fine and flat out deletes zack from his brain so he doesn't have to deal with it.
Let's face it, in the og they go snowboarding straight after her death. The party never grieves, and she's rarely brought up again. A game with this level of character dynamic/writing/ performance can't get away without acknowledging her death in a significant way.
FF7 rebirth feels like a culmination of everything Square Enix has built for the last decade. From 15 to KH3 to Remake to 16. I really believe that each of those titles have contributed in one way or another to Rebirth
The fact that they managed to use Aeriths iconic scene as a plot point to turn the story even darker while saving its emotional payoff for the final installment is genius. The amount of catharsis from this, Clouds lifestream moment, and finally having questions answered will make the wait completely worth it.
You are ASSUMING that's what they are doing. If that's true, it will be good but we don't actually know what will happen.
Man, the set has genuinely never looked better. I think you guys really hit your stride with these graphics and everything.
Also loved the conversation, and having Imran on the show is always hype
Forgot to do one of Arith’s quests before the date so I got a date with my talking dog best friend Red. 😂😂😂
I, too, found myself with the can-feline bæstie.
At first I was disappointed, to be honest, but I somehow lucked into the most plot-heavy date, who’d have thought?
That's hilarious
@56:00 The Nanaki-father part, waa rhe most emotional for me. It brought me to tears!
Wait you don’t think they have much plot to do after rebirth? Bruh most of the OG plot happens after the forgotten city haha and also they confirmed that Glen was a character made for rebirth before the mobile game
Glenn will be Cloud’s father.
I think I'm one of the few people that liked Remake way more than Rebirth. Almost 100% due to the forced ubisoft open world stuff. I honestly can't think of a single game where the whole climb the tower and then go through a checklist thing has made the game better. If they handled the open world a bit differently or even just had the game be more traditionally linear I think it would have been much better (Story, combat and characters were just as great as Remake though if not better)
I feel a similar way. I liked the characterization/character moments in rebirth because we got more of them. But the style of open world didn't work for me
Blessing not understanding Cloud is hilarious.
Yeah I don't get it. He is clearly being in influenced by Sephiroth so he is obsessed with the black materia so of course he is an asshole to Aerith.
@@TheKennyboy92 Exactly, but even without the Sephiroth influence Blessing doesn’t understand that Cloud didn’t have a normal childhood before Sephiroth even came into the picture such as growing up without his father in the picture, being a child soldier for Shinra, and not to mention Cloud very much being introverted and being labeled as a loner by the other children in Nibelheim other than Tifa (there’s nothing wrong with being introverted) Then throw all the trauma from what that happens in the Nibelheim incident and in crisis core. It’s like bruh, Cloud is a deeply broken individual for reasons that were out of his control and then you add the Sephiroth influence you mentioned and it’s a recipe for disaster. It’s wild to ignore all of that on a final fantasy 7 spoilercast.
@@thevaultdweller8717 Yeah he there is a reason he is withdrawn in general. He is not like Zach who is always more upbeat.
@@thevaultdweller8717 Exactly! I think it's a bit of semi-joking jealousy about Aerith and Tifa being so into Cloud that makes Blessing blind to the fact that he's not a bad guy.
The perfect lineup for this spoilercast
My theory on Aerith is that Cloud experienced a timeline where he deflects the attack. But the party when they barge in experience the timeline where she died. Evidence? Cloud sets Aerith down rather neatly before engaging Jenova, but after the fight the rest of the party see her slumped on her side, because to them she was killed.
Could be for sure. But I think its more likely Cloud is either imagining Aerith is still alive (repressing her death), or Aerith is feeding him a illusion of her still being alive to make sure Cloud doesn't turn into a full Sephiroth puppet.
This is also supported by the fact that the Aerith & Cloud vs Sephiroth battle takes place in his mind. Look at the symbolism that happens when Aerith, she "cleanses/purifies" the surroundings (His mind), turning it from black to white and filled with water
@@HXXXXWXXN I disagree personally, to me all the white void stuff is the "Seven Seconds Until the End" place that we saw in Remake. Hopefully we'll find out later!
@@KBABZ Right. But that's before Aerith appears. The end of remake also takes place inside Cloud's mind :) Its like the end of OG, the final battle vs Sephiroth is inside Clouds mind
There’s no actual evidence that any of that is happening in Clouds mind, that’s a Maxdood theory thing. We really don’t know what’s going there with the white void. Plus Aerith thanks Cloud for “what he did back there” and she could only be talking about blocking the sword.
I personally find it hard to believe they would lay out all this groundwork for multiple timelines/worlds just to turn around suddenly and say “oh never mind it’s all just in his head” lol. I really want OP to be right and that Aerith is still alive somewhere, to me that’s more exciting rather than treading on the original story footprints but no one really knows what’s up for sure.
@@HXXXXWXXN Didn't think of that!
Cloud has the black materia at the end of rebirth. No one else
Yeah they all seemed to skip passed this
I was worried this was gonna be a bunch of multiverse talk like most mainstream spoilercasts. So glad y’all are tapped into the dreamscape aspect of it all.
Can you be mad at other casts for doing that though? The multiple timelines angle isn’t a theory anymore. It’s confirmed to be a pert of the storyline for the trilogy.
Nothing is confirmed, but no I’m not mad at anyone. It’s just nice to hear Kinda Funny going down the rabbit hole of extremely deliberate clues left by the devs.
Same lol
@@Joshiepoo2525 Bro. Sephiroth says point blank to Cloud “Behold. The true nature of reality. When the boundaries of fate are breached, new worlds are born.”
What do you think he was talking about? Pumpkins?
That is confirmation that the multiverse theory is in play somehow. How could it not be?
@@zachm2331 And Aerith calls her world a dream. There’s more to this. “Worlds” can mean anything. Aerith touches the lifestream and senses Zack. Cloud senses him in dreams. Cosmo Canyon NPC describes post-death spiritual planes made of memories and dreams. It’s all there.
Just finished the game and came here for the spoilercast. SUCH AN AMAZING GAME!
I'm a Bless on this matter, never played the original and experienced he great story.
INCREDIBLE soundtrack. Wacky moments. Amazing!
I loved the Rebirth ending. the more I sit on it and think, the better it gets
This is KFG Vol. 3, Episode 3 (Episode 487 overall)
I also think ya missed where sephiroth converged all the worlds and is not a multiverse timeline. There isn’t a timeline everyone is happy. Sephiroth explained that every world ends up fading away. They are all apart of one livestream
12:08 - I legit had the same reaction. I was going "Yes, he did it! He saved Aerith!" and almost immediately things got very muddy and confusing.
Glenn is a protagonist in Ever Crisis which was not delayed to a point in which we are confused about who Glenn is
I'm still playing this freaking game, I just got all of the sidequests done in Cosmo Canyon.
Perfect timing just finished the game this week. My favorite game ever
Nothing against developers, but I'm happy we just have the crew and not someone who worked on the game on the spoilercast. I feel like when they have a dev, the conversation is less about how they feel about the overall game, and more so talking to the dev about the game. Almost like an interview.
Game is amazing. I feel like the guys underrated it heavily.
12:31 - True, Aerith and Tifa act almost like sisters. 😂
I think that the materia that "turned black" is actually Aerith's materia. And Cloud turns it black himself - with his grief/sorrow, same as the Gi did. Under the dissociation that he deals with, there's depression. That's why the materia transforms right after his defence mechanism seems to break (headache/flashes). Despair breeds nihillism (if the life doesn't seem worth it, why should the universe go on at all?). Maybe the end og the world ("Sephiroth's reunion") is the only way to be reunited with Aerith? This is also how the enging connects to Advent Children - that's the same emotion Cloud had to deal with in the film
They're going all in on the lifestream sequence in Part 3. So much so that they're willing to take away from some of the impact of Aerith's death to make this sequence even more impactful.
BEST GAME EVER MADE ❤
GOTY 2024
I’m here 2 months later - GOTY
I'll be honest, I wish Emran wasn't part of this conversation. I like Emran, seems like a great fun guy, but when it comes to these type of things, when I go back and look at who was right on the nail and who's takes were off base, the one big pattern I see is people's perceptions of gaming companies and their business strategies and using them as a reflection of what people are doing with story, characters, gameplay, etc......those are always the guys who are off base in hindsight, or at least, they are far more likely to be than those who don't, regardless of person or game.
I feel like almost every game that has a prominent company behind it this is what Emran does, and he does a lot of speculating instead of actually explaining to the guys who don't know what's going on, Seems like it has kinda hurt their experience as they have gone thru the game, and definitely think the constant insisting of the marketing strategies being the driving motive for the game direction, the others have absorbed it over time, and turn a could-have-been very colorful experience somewhat grey for them. Thing is, most of the time they do this it's just because they don't quite get what is actually happening in the game.
Shame really. And IDK, I get it with MTX and all that but....kinda feel like constantly reducing games to their company business strategies is unfair to all the people who actually work on the games.
Someone in the chat did correct Emran on the "they backed off story elements after the reception of remake" thing
My only issue is with feeling little emotion to Aerith’s death and missing the iconic body in the water scene but if they do that scene how I think they will with Cloud remembering then it will be worth it
They give you that emotional aerith moment in that dream where she hugs him and basically tells him bye and you see sephiroth walking in and it was very emotional for me. I think we will get those other scenes in the next game once cloud accepts who he is
Honestly how i would describe the game is that it feels like one giant good side quest.
Pros: Gameplay, music, character interactions with each other & boss fights.
Cons: Too many mandatory minigames to progress the story, Terrible pacing nothing major really happens until chapter 8 or 9 which is 35+hrs into the game, & a stupid convoluted multiverse storyline.
I dont understand their hate for Cloud. They talked about how much he sucked in the spoiler free review so I braced myself to dislike him, but most instances of him being a bad person are due to Sephiroth's influence and I just cant put that on him. He's being manipulated.
Listening to theorizing going on, are any of the KF guys familiar with the Lifestream White/Lifestream Black short stories? I've found them helpful for understanding the general framework of what's happening in the remake series
I respect other people opinions but man i’m baffled how everyone bashes on the gongaga region. I think that was the most fun region do go around
oh, we will get the death scene and the putting her in the lake and stuff. Remember, we're Cloud, his Brain is in denial. We will get those in part 3 most likely
Elena is larxene from kingfom hearts
re: the Reno casting. I believe it is Japanese tradition to not recast a character when the actor dies. I believe they did the same thing for Phil in Kingdom Hearts 3, which is why he was uncharacistically quiet (correct me if I am wrong). I think it was an intentional choice to not not use him as much in this game and I think they reused old lines the JP actor recorded.
Hopefully they consider using him more in the final part because it would be sad not to see him be important again.
Gus is the guy in corral prison I am a ff7 nerd first game that made me feel something back in 1997 at 9. Was like wow this goes harder than Mario and Zelda lol
I heard that last bit from Maximillian dude like a month or so ago.
I think the hollow materia will be filled once Tifa pieces Cloud back together in the Lifestream
I’ve been waiting for this and you got Imran! Yasss.
The problem with the Whispers storyline and changing fate is that its confusing for none fans and lots of fans just wanted a remake, so a lot of people are either confused or not getting what they want. I am not sure why anyone at Square thought it was a good idea.
Is there a chance when cloud “sucks” he’s actually sephiroth?
They wanted to keep people on their toes right? So you’re upset at how confusing and convoluted it is, but you missed all the context leading up to it she was always going to die. Pay attention more to all the scenes in the game leading up to it. This was all very intentional. Her fate was sealed but there’s other things that are definitely at play here that weren’t before. We’ll get our answers. What’s a third game with no mystery?
Commenting to help the algorithm. Have fun FF fans.
I’ll see you guys in 2027 when I finish this game then and watch this spoilercast lol
Its seems you guys are for the yellow tape. People get mad when they feel hand held but when there is no yellow tape people get mad that its too hard. It's hard to make everyone happy.
Let me start with: I loved 95% maybe even 99% of Rebirth. From the characterization to the modernization to the relationship dynamic changes to the even the multiversal elements.
However the ending is currently in tbd based on how things go in part 3, though regardless I still hate the "reality rewrite" in order to still check off the box of "Aerith's death". After they had Cloud arrive on time, have the knowledge of her being in danger ahead of time, having broken away from Fate, and even being strong enough to deflect Sephiroth's blade. Every single thing that people have wanted to be in play to avoid any semblance of the death. Instead reality gets rewritten by Sephiroth and things seemingly go between branchlines, where she is saved and not.
If it goes that route and Cloud did save Aerith in another branchline or even that Aerith somehow entered a stated of transcended beyond life or death leading to her continuing to live and become what Maximilian Dood refers to as "Omni Aerith"? Cool, I'll see Rebirth's ending as a means to a good end route. However if it doesn't and puts it all on Cloud's mental instability, while also backhand slapping the sizable part of the fandom that wants Aerith to live in this version by putting in some "reality rewrite" to override all the "Aerith lives" flags as well as reversing course from Remake to acting like Fate can't be altered? To hell with it and I'll never touch the game again, as well as forever labeling it & part 3 as the worst of the Compilation (which says something given the wavy quality of its entries). I want to believe that it was a way to keep to what they said in the story hitting the same beats/check off boxes, while also maintaining their own route as well via presenting the case of Schrodinger's Aerith. Where she technically can be seen as having died but also not, cause branchlines. Personally I do think it'll be the first given the various evidence and quotes from people working on the project, as well as the fact that they're continuing to maintain the Schrodinger's Aerith aspect. Regardless Remake left me hyped for Rebirth for years, Rebirth on the other hand has left me in the state that part 3 has to earn back my investment and hype instead. There is no overwhelming hype towards anything in part 3, just wanting to see how they handle Aerith. Part 3 needs to go back to what they did in Remake in embracing the "unknown journey" and originality aspects, rather than being chained by OG that already exists. My interest and investment was pulled by R-trilogy because of the new path it offered, which is the thing that's keeping me with an eye towards part 3. Not the idea of just seeing the same old fatalistic story.
Also the knowledge about Cloud's mental state could absolutely be a tool in being used in the writer's toolkit too. Namely that they put him at the center of the differing branchlines and seeing the truth of the world (the seam in the sky, Aerith alive, multiverses existing, etc), which makes certain people wonder if its not all just in his head. For them to then to reveal that no he's legit seeing things as they are, there is a living Aerith; there is a seam in the sky; there are multiverses; etc and the one able to know all of it happens to be someone with a very fractured mind.
Also on the note of why Sephiroth is so interested in Cloud, I do think that can be answered a bit if one thinks of Advent Children if you take his words as literal and R-trilogy being a sequel. Namely that so long as he remains in Cloud's memories he will never truly die, just be waiting for another chance to manifest.
I can definitely say in an ideal world I'd be able to have Tifa and Aerith go on the Gold Saucer date, cause R-trilogy so far has made me want them to be together romantically more than either of them w/ Cloud (and ftr in OG I'm still Cloti though one that acknowledges the issues with it shown in AC). That's in part born from loving both of them and also just because of how they're written in R-trilogy. If anyone I'd have had Cloud w/ Jessie cause those two actually work w/ her being very forward w/ things.
Rebirth screwed up the ending
Too short :(
I like the game. I’m not exactly loving it. This game just feels so…safe. I can’t really describe it. I feel like I’ve played this game 100 times before. I hate that I have to go through combat simulations to get the powerful summon materia of this world now. I freaking got LEVIATHAN because my FF7R save file was present. I hate how this game will NOT let me find anything organically while exploring without feeling the need to hold my hand via some stupid bird leading me to secret areas. It basically threw everything in the Ubisoft playbook at us. It feels like cookie cutter open world slop with FF7 dressing on it. I just wonder if there was another way to make this game feel special. But Square probably wanted to go after the lowest common denominator with this one.
I think the “Ubisoft open world design” criticism has been overdone to the point it’s meaningless now. I guess if a game has open world design mechanics it’s a Ubisoft game now? Can you tell me a Ubisoft game that has this level of variety of gameplay content, and this much content, at this high quality? The game also isn’t safe at all. It dares to take the story in ways that, while interesting, have potential to piss off a lot of OG purist fans. I respect your opinion, but I don’t really get it. Wish the game was as good for you as it is for me and many others. But I respect where you’re coming from even though I don’t agree, I just don’t get it.
@@Erikthedood Well generally if a lot of people feel a certain way based on their experience, there must be something to the claim. On the whole, there is an over saturation of open world games, which is a different can of worms entirely. But most of my time has been spent trudging from one highlighted point of interest in the regions to another. Mindlessly checking off map markers. Down to the Ubi towers. You really can’t deny how familiar and sanitized it feels from many recent games. I’m still working my way through the game mind you, and I think it’s a good game (when Chadley isn’t interrupting my gameplay every 60 seconds). I’m pretty much counting on the story beats to carry the game.
@@Erikthedood "Ubisoft open world design" means a specific thing that you don't seem to grasp. Ubisoft open world design is a design pattern where you're most incentivized to find towers to reveal points of interest on the map, and the world offers no further objectives outside of those heavily telegraphed points of interest. Ubisoft open world games are a flawed design because it explicitly disengages a player from the open world; the rest of the space outside of the points of interest might as well not exist. This is why open world was considered a negative point about a game until 2017 when Breath of the Wild showed the industry what an open world game should be, and finally delivered on that promise properly in the AAA space
Stopped playing when I couldn’t get passed a card game in the main story (because I suck lol) glad to hear the game is good though❤️🔥
You can forfeit the tournament and the story will continue
u know u can go to the counter and say u wanna skip the tournament right? however playing the tournament gives u the awesome nanaki in uniform scene and it's so funny
I had to double check that I didnt accidentally skip WAY ahead in the video because 10 minutes in and you guys are talking about the ending. You should really start your spoilercasts from the beginning of the game and discuss your way to the end. Its like watching an In Review and you go straight to the end of Endgame or something. Work on it.
Firstly, what’s with the attitude dude? These people owe you nothing, even if you do pay a subscription, there are much better ways to offer constructive criticism.
And secondly, I’ve watched a tonne of spoiler casts, specifically for rebirth, and a majority of them, people jump directly into talking about the ending, because it’s such a big deal, and everyone wants to talk about it when they finish.
Also, all the other ones where they do go point by point, chapter by chapter end up being like 4 goddamned hours long and this is not that kind of production. They just wanted to talk about their overall impressions, their favourite parts, and that crazy ending, and they had to keep it around an hour to an hour and a half.
Chill.
Colin is better
I’m a huge FFVII original fan, but I’m on the same page as Blessing. The game in my opinion would be way better without the weird crap they added. The core story is what I enjoy and I feel like they shoehorned in the weird crap so you can fight Sephiroth at the end of each part.
I grew to really dislike this game. I had a good time up until the 3rd region and I just couldn't handle rinse and repeat open world blah quests. That said, I like to hear theories on how they think Square is going to bring this Kingdom Hearts BS story telling to a close.
Spoiler, they won't. It won't be satisfying in anyway shape or form. It might be fun though!
Honestly I don’t understand why they’re doing this whole Star Trek 09 Requel story with this remake trilogy, like What’s the Point? it doesn’t add anything, this whole alternate timeline multiverse Kingdom Hearts crap.
Just remake FF7 & retell that story, that’s all we wanted.
It doesn't matter, 95% of remake and rebirth follow the original story anyway. The 5% is different but then again the characters are in the same situation so I don't understand what you complaining about.
@@sachin72767
You’re just adding to my case, What’s the Point?
@@SmashBrosAssemblethe point is it's expanding the story so people familiar with the original are also experiencing something fresh.
They're just retelling the story and using the toybox of the expanded compilation as they do so.
That's what some wanted, not all. I want what Remake set up and Rebirth depending on how things go moved forward, a new good end route to go alongside the OG's bad end route. THAT is what I wanted, not the same old story retold; been there seen that and the edgelords that obsess over it enough.
The point if it goes the way I hope it does is to offer up a good end route for FF7 after 20+ years of having the same bad end route, while also incorporating in later elements naturally. It adds a TON to the story and if they do finally deliver on the good end route it can serve as a bookend to the entire compilation that finally puts the other side of the message in place. "death is a natural thing that should be accepted not feared" + "life is something that should be valued and fought like hell to preserve". inb4 anyone tries to start talking about loss I'll just head that off with having lost 3 grandparents over the years, the last one literally this week, and having a parent that's going through cancer treatment; so don't even come at me from that angle it won't go well for you. I'm also someone that's followed FF7 since a few years after OG and gone through each of the available to the US games within the compilation, so again don't try me on my "devotion to FF7".
Lol, Yes lets attribute Multiverse shenanigans to Kingdom Hearts like that plot device has not existed in other media 😂