@PenOfEvil well yes, considering that you barely even mention Warframe or Tenno powers, hold Nova as the most powerful one with all other Warframes being insignificant, neglect to mention Warframe skills that actually do render them immune to everything, and still, until this day, argue into the comments section of both videos with your misunderstanding of how Operator immortality is done using Eternalism which was downright explained to us in New War, (confusing it with Warframe immortality which is done using Oro, then misinterpreting Ballas' imprisonment of the Tenno in the Void as actually killing them), and completely neglect to mention Drifter rewinding and looping time by an entire year in 1999 Then yes, either you did not research enough, or you ignored all of it, and what's fatal here is that everything mentioned above happens in-game, so now I even have cause to doubt your "decades of playing Warframe" from the last video
@@Necroxion If this is arguing then I can just say nothing but I don't think that will be better. I'm not gonna say you guys are right about everything cause you aren't. Did I ignore all the other Warframes or simply not have the time to put every single one in there? I literally scrolled through a document I made summarizing every single one. In the VIDEO. 😂I picked ten based on what we know for sure. I even mentioned a few things about the drifter. But enough is not what people here are looking for the Warframes have to win or every single thing about them has to be covered in a single video no exceptions. I watch Warframe fans do this to every video concerning them it's sad at this point. I only have one single question cause nothing I say about Warframes matters at this point who do you think actually beats them? Genuinely not sarcasm.
@@PenOfEvil "I scrolled through a document summarizing every single one! Oh, but Warframes don't have a skill that makes them immune to everything The most powerful Warframe attack is just Nova's with the antimatter" Yeah man I'm actually gonna have to doubt on that statement, because what you mentioned barely covers a fraction of what Warframes do. Sure, Nova's antimatter bomb is powerful in terms of raw destruction, but Warframes also have tactical and subtle skills that can shut down fights easily - we have Equinox and Dante who just need to show up and everyone starts bleeding, we have Dante just casually wrapping everyone in thousands of layers of anti void power protection overshields that also protect against bullets, we have Nyx, Xaku, Nekros, Revenant, and Atlas each having their own flavor of "making foes fight each other", we have Harrow's Covenant, Revenant's Mesmer Skin, Wisp's Decoy, Limbo's passive, and Rolling Guard for example making them literally immune to everything (And may I remind you that mods are canon because both Duviri-Teshin and Fibonacci mention elemental modding during their respective Alchemy missions, and Veso mentions his "unmodded Plinx" in New War) Hell, Wisp and Equinox can both transfer damage, so if they just nuked a rat for example then everyone within range would also be dead It's not that "it's not enough people want Warframe to win in every single vs video", it's that people who rule that Warframes lose often miss out on massive chunks of lore and in-game feats while doing so And then you still don't mention how the Guardians can counter Drifter just resetting time, or the Operators just respawning by themselves and just making more Warframes, or how the Tenno have entire Dojos dedicated to reverse-engineering their foes' gear and sometimes making their own frames It's not that they want Warframes to win, it's that you didn't even show all of their tools
@@Necroxion I literally mentioned my take on the drifter's time manipulation abilities cause just like protea they cannot be used willy nilly. The drifter resetting time is cool but then they just get beat on repeat. I'm not saying guardians are immune to death they are just stronger and have the tools to kill a tenno. But that's in the video. I agree modding is canon I said that in the video as well I even said I just can't do it to the extent people want it to be. Cause trying to figure out what mods do in lore in Warframe vs what light does to guardians is a ridiculous task. One that can bear no results. So I just made everything Op I even gave the Warframes more time with an entire counterargument section dedicated to them. Yet the verdict was I didn't do enough research. I'm negating gameplay of course a group of Warframes and guardians can loop immunity indefinitely. There is no fight there. But because I said to you I'll do better I want to ask you. Who do you think would beat Warframes?
okay. wow. there's several problems with your conclusion and complete ignorance towards the tennos powers. 1. the tenno can move at irrelivent speeds with their void sling / void dash ability. the void is a dimension not bound by time and space, the void sling ability erases the time it takes you to reach a target location, and the void dash ability just moves you to that location at that speed 2. the tenno's immortality is instant, what happened in the new war wasnt death, the tenno where trapped in the void by ballas and they where kept there by the man in the walls deal. how the tennos immortality works is actually above the guardians. the guardians can die, but they revive themselves, the tenno actually have zero concept of death. when they die, their death is erased from causality and reality is re-written to erase that possibility. this is what happens in the war within. 3. the tenno have above universal levels of ap, they are able to kill void demons which are stated to be unkillable and above causality just like the tenno, accept the tenno kill them by merging every version of the demon across infinite timelines into a single target, and kill that target. meaning they are killing an entity that has infinite durability. 4. the tenno can give any warframe, or any weapon or character, whatever power level they want from outside of the universe. they do this to mag in the warframe 1999 quest to save her from death (in the good ending) 5. the tenno can transfare into or be eaten by oroworms. this doesnt seem too powerful, but oroworms are stated to erase concepts and inherit their abilities. this means the tenno can eat the guardian, but it also means that if you erase the concept of a tenno, their imortality is so potent the tenno can re-write reality while the concept of who they are is erased. 5. using the parazon, the tenno can kill or brainwash immortal beings of different classes. 1 being the kuva litches, who are immortal through re-birth, and the sisters of parvos who's immortality comes from the same sauce as the tenno. 6. the void copies anything that it touches, this would include the guardians if possible and all of the guardians weapons. kullervo can call upon the void, and if the guardians are copied he would be able to use the guardians weapons. (the weapons are also improved by the void) 7. when stabbed through the heart by a sword that seemingly effects its target across all timelines, it does nothing to the tenno, so that method wouldnt work, 8. the tenno, and harrow individually can manipulate fate and causality, 9. Oro and the tennos void immortality are completely different things. The tenno have oro, but it's not their only method of immortality, it's like a weak tool that every void entity has. All of the sentients have oro, and the paracisis sword actually attacks the oro. The tenno where stabbed through the heart by this sword and where un affected. Oro is specifically important to the warframes ability to revive not the tennos. The word "tenno" is used in the conclave because the second dream hasn't happened yet and the word tenno is used to describe the faction of the warframes not the operator. The warframe community uses the word tenno and operator interchangeably but they aren't the same thing. The operator is the character and the tenno is the faction
Different warframe abilities Using sunrays (Wisp i think, mentioned in another comment), entering another dimension (Limbo), manipulate time (cant remember wich warframe), eat everything (grendel), manipulate dead enemies (Nekros raising dead army) And so so many more abilities available at their disposal via the warframes Should the sentient be mentioned in all of this too? comparing power between characters/species?
@Gollet95 they aren't weak compared to the tenno because the tenno increase the warframes power. But without the tenno the highest tier warframe feat is inaros being able to create a sandstorm the size of Mars. But with the tenno / OPERATOR (I'm saying operator because I have seen people use people talking about the tenno faction as anti feats) low tiers like yureli who is the strength of a normal teenage girl can dish out universal levels of ap
@@iskanderwulfstein7731 that just reminded me that the entire modding system is canon, meaning every overpowered build ever made by the Warframe community is possible in lore.
im not going to assume to quickly because the video isnt over, but you said you wouldn't use the gameplay for scaling. then you mention all the lore accurate destiny stuff, and only the gameplay for warframe ignoring the lore. (of the warframes anyway)
yes, when he mentioned that protea "cant spam her time traveling ability" like wtf?? in the lore she freezes time like another monday and created another dimension from SPAMING that lol
@@belphemmore3802 tbf Warframe Lore its a mess sometimes, for example if you check Chromas Wiki, theres literally nothing about him, but then on the quest Lotus tells you that Chroma was THE MOST powerfull Warframe during the orokin era bro wtf 😭 you cant just say that and leave him with 0 lore, and apparently he still had his own will, and apparently the orokin sended 4 warframes to take him down but they couldnt beat him because he adapted to them, and thats why you need volt, ember, Frost and Zaryn parts to craft him. And then when Chroma Prime releases he doesnt get a cinemaric trailer, neither answers on his lore 💀💀💀
Tbh, this is just physical power-wise. Just nyx would probably be able to beat a guardian (as far as i know) by just mind controlling the guardian. Or abilities that make enemies able to fall asleep. Also nekros could just revive fallen guardians or grendel could just hold the guardian in his stomach. Limbo could just send the guardian to a separate dimension.
True, the Tenno could resurrect perma-dead guardians like Cayde 6 as soldiers for their army. Guardians are cooked, the ghost is such a weakness. And the Tenno and Drifter aren't tied to something like that, they just get infinite resurrections. So it becomes a war of attrition, and no matter how stacked it is in favor of the guardians, they will eventually lose because eventually Tenno will take out ghosts with stray bullets and abilities. The guardians have no hope
@@codynovick5701ember alone can just incinerate everything after all she can burn a whole planet to death, she not even beginning even more frames have destruction level power the d2 universe cooked compared to warframe
@@codynovick5701 So a guardian can still go into the strand dimension and wiping out all 3 with anihaltion. So using electromagnetism, cause arc is. And use anti particles, or just use solar and heat them up at just 10.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 kelvin, and all 4 forces are like immediately after the big bang. Or just put them into a closing wormhole. Or shooting a imense amount of neutrons and protons at very high speeds and then the isotope and element changes, or just ionize them with harmful radiation, a tenno is still a human being. I just say how to defeat them.
@@TyToochill What about electromagnetism and nuclear fusion? so this is arc and solar in the destiny universe. And if the tenno never died, someone else could turn them into taken. Cause in the destiny universe a taken can only be taken if someone never died before. And someone who never died before can take control of the taken. When a tenno is trying getting to light or darkness he needs a ghost or be ready fo that that darkness can corrupt him badly.
I'm noticing you say tenno can be killed. No tenno have never died at any point. Warframes have died, not tenno. There is one counterpoint: Rell But that was a particular case. Rell did die, but that was because he assumed he would die of old age and fully transferred his soul into his Warframe. We learn in duviri drifter was ageing for centuries and was still in good physical shape despite having less void powers to the operator. Rell 'assumed' he would die of old age. It was never confirmed. So departing from his immortal body and becoming one with a very mortal shell was what causes his death in the end. Edit: no the new war was not a death scene. Ballas even explained that he was fully aware the tenno were incapable of dying. "You cannot kill the devil, tenno. But you can send it back to hell!" Edit2: i believe guardians can wipe the floor with warframes. Since it has been shown they are just advanced technocyte units without an operator. The hex could barely make their abilities functional and stalker constantly gets shit on. With an operator on the otherhand. Its the opposite. Since it has been shown the operator is the one who knows how to fully use warframes biology. (Better than the frames themselves). That and the operator's powers makes it a one sided fight. Edit3: a few comments at the end regarding the time tenno spend being downed and the question if transference is remote. For the first part: your assumption is based on tenno being sent into the void not that they died. Warframe has great attention to detail, even changing UI for different characters. In the sacrifice quest umbra retains all damage inflicted by the operator after the operator is downed and self revives. Operator even has animation for getting back up for the fight. They do not spend years in the void when going down. For the second statement: it is remote if done via the somatic link in the orbiter. In-person if not. Most tenno have abandoned somatic link as it was shown that further distance negatively effects the power from transference. Lotus mentions that the relocation to the orbiter will make power greater in the second dream quest.
@floppy3962 The only comic of rell I'm aware of is him being ousted by the rest of the zarimann survivors. Nothing to do with the deal as far as I'm aware.
Guardian powers are SUPER inconsistent. They move faster than light in one feat, then die by nanobots in another. What you're saying here is you have no idea how strong a warframe is therefore destiny wins because you understand it more. If the lore of guardians was accurate and fallen kell can tank a nova bomb, they'd blink and earth would be destroyed by the Shockwave Paracasuality means they are not bound by fate or reality, meaning they can do things that they are physically incapable of doing because their will is strong enough and they are put in a position where they can rise to the occasion of whoever they fight as long as their light is strong enough. This means that their is an upper limit to their power, but they only win because they can overcome their opponent Warframes are strong because they channel what is essentially a similar power. Did you not learn about how duviri was made? A thought became reality. They channel the power to reshape reality to their liking, which is how they channel abilities in ways that break science. Sound familiar? The battle then is not a battle of science or feats, but a battle of will. Limbo used an equation of the void to casually hop between dimensions. We guardians need a portal for that. Rhino stomps the ground and time ruptures. Shaxx made a big crater. Wei Ning slightly moved a mountain. Atlas one shot an asteroid. I use to think Tenno easily stomp, but now i know that they are the same thing in a different universe, both characters who channel reality breaking powers to rise to the occasion of their opponent. About reviving, did you not learn about Oro or Kuva? They die and come back because of it immediately.
@Tevatron044 a massive problem with the match up, is the guardians strength depends on their connection to the light. The tenno can nullify the man in the walls connection to a vessel and the man in the wall is far stronger than a guardian. So the tenno should be able to just void sling into a guardian, remove the connection to the light. And it's normal dude vs a warframe
@@floppy3962 Sure, The Indifference may be stronger than most individual Guardians, but I don't see how that means a Tenno can sever their connection to the Light, since I don't see the Indifference being stronger than the Light, and even then, Guardians don't need connection to the light to use Stasis and Strand, as seen by Zavala and Osiris.
@floppy3962 this is true, although Spoilers ahead like what happened with Arthur, it's likely that their will is strong enough to repel the transference. The question then becomes whether a guardian can repel reality breaking compulsion and that depends on the guardian. The problem with warframe is that as of now, the lore in terms of feats is not well known enough. What we do know is insane enough as it is, but we're not even scratching the surface of what the warframe does. What we do know is that the warframes took down an empire that were revered by Gods and essentially immortal. They terraformed planets and they went down in a single day. That's one hell of a power
@Tevatron044 breaking a link and transference isn't the same thing. Being able to effect the will of a literal slab of rock is wild. Also the quest ends with the drifter literally saying he doesn't have that problem anymore
guardian lore is like that kid no one wants to play make believe with, because he always needs to be better then every one else, and he hasn’t realized people stopped playing with him 15 minutes ago
Warframe kid: "I use the last of my energy to put up a barrier shield to block your incoming attack and hopefully survive." Destiny kid: "Oh yeah? uhh...well then I guess all of a sudden I consume the sun to fuel my convenient anti barrier spell, making it able to destroy any barrier plus infinity. Then, also I do a spell that makes you die permanently, and there is no possible way to counter it."
This video doesn't sound like you actually compared the lore/universes of both games and more like you started making the video with a "winner" already in mind. Other comments already mentioned a lot but what was particularly annoying to me was how you mentioned that "Gameplay does not constitute to in universe power". You then support this statement by giving us a short form of The Guardian's lore and how their ability functions (which is good) but then for the warframes you immediately 180 into only giving your assumptions for how they function based on their gameplay/trailers. Eg1. "There is no indicator of volt running at the speed of light except for the trailer in any other facet of the game" - this is a correct fact in that Volt does not move at light speeds. Their just really fast, like Quicksilver from X-men. Really fast but not at the speed of light. If they were moving at the speed of light everything in the trailer would be a blur/shredded from the speed and not just slowmo/moving quickly among the crowd. It's a correct statement but the way you framed it implies "volt *is* supposed to be as fast as light based on their lore", which was never stated to be so because volt has no lore (poor guy), in order to make your argument that the abilities in warframe are inconsistent and that you will in response, pump up the Guardian's power even higher (which is funny cause the abilities in warframe ARE inconsistent due to how its early development was- starting directionless to a direction- but my issue is that for all the valid examples of inconsistencies you pulled out one you fabricated from your own assumptions.) Eg2. saying Nova is the ""strongest warframe because antimatter" is an assumption, not a fact. Sure. antimatter is destructive, but when compared to other frames with - control over dimensions (limbo. Being affected by things outside the rift is purely gameplay only and the result of many nerfs. Again, another assumption from gameplay, not lore.) - control over time (Protea. who also created a temporal pocket dimension to protect her creator from being lost to the void- though she turned into a former copy/spectre of herself. A copy which still has the ability to manipulate time as during her quest the first thing she did while waking up was sending the player back in time to before they entered the temporal space to "kick them out".) - control over an ever evolving infestation that corrupts anything it touches (both organic and inorganic) across the system (Nidus. It's hard to describe in a few words how powerful the infestation is in lore) - the ability to divine the best future and the steps to take towards it/guarantee it happens (Koumei. She does not manipulate the future but is able to predict, and find the best course to handle it. To put into perspective its like the movie troupe of dodging all the punches because you already know at what point in time and space each punch would be in) - and so on and so forth. There is not "strongest frame" because they are all built to handle specific issues/whims of their original creators. (There are plenty of "weakest" frames though, again due to inconsistencies in lore and being designed to undertake tasks for their creators that aren't very important) And that's the thing. Warframes are technically just tools. I can definitely see an arguement for where guardians would dominate over warframes because quite a lot of warframes are made rather specifically for each task (though we already have a few frames that could definitely wipe guardians. Limbo being the most obvious one- Am still sad at how gutted his gameplay has become) but they arguments you presented in this video just aren't there/accurate at all. ========== kinda separate section =========== This part is a bit nitpicky: In terms of lore though, while I understand not wanting to get into the warframe operators because they are their own whole can of worm and messy lore, for the sake/accuracy of a "powerscaling/comparison" video you do need to realize that "Warframes" are literally just "suits/footsoldiers" for the tenno to operate. The capabilities/legends/lore of each warframe is derived from the actions and powers of the operator that controlled and used the frame's abilities to the fullest. (Only the first iteration/generation of warframes had any sort of sentience left in them before they went insane, the sole exception being one frame who was specifically made to "retain their sentience" as a punishment/torture) Warframes are equivalent to "weapons constructed for specific situations", tools for the whims of the orokin, a fast, agile, deadly, and seemingly immortal weapon platforms that are controlled from far away. (Sure warframes can "die/fail" in lore but its specifically only the involved "suit" that is disabled. Their Operators are still very much alive, are literally unkillable (realities where they "died" will be erased and switched back into realities where they are alive), and can craft more of those "suits" with modifcations to handle future situations better. Basically you are comparing the powers of "heros" in one universe against the power of "the hero's guns" in another, of which some are already more than capable of taking out Guardians.
Wasn’t there a quest that stated chroma was the strongest warframe due to his ability to adapt to damage he was taking to make him stronger, make him impossible to kill
@zhongli5689 given that its a quest for the warframe in question, do note that certain levels of "glazing" will be applied to enhance their flavours lol. Like how in Inaros was treated as a god king by the people on Mars , Koumei as a guardian/diety for the ostrons, and Jade who was turned into a warframe as punishment but kept in stasis as her power of disintegration was used to execute/vapourize criminals "mercifully". It's easy to say "x is strongest" but in warframes case where there are so many "out there" stories it's hard to say which exactly stands on top (especially since they are constructed for their own specialized tasks and not to compete with each other) On the other hand, its easier to say which ones are the weakest lorewise though. Like frames that literally has no lore yet or funny music maker octavia and surfer girl Yareli (they aren't bad but lorewise definitely not as crazy as the rest)
Using conjecture on an argument is not how this works. The point is if I take exactly what Warframes can do and not what people theorize they can do, they lose so much more. Protea died to create Granum void. Her time manipulation has very strict limitations. But no one says anything about that they just assume she is all powerful. Same thing with limbo. The Warframe community has a habit of taking something small and inflating to the point of absurdity with no proof so when I get in there and do the work of research I find that a lot of what people say either isn't there or were theories based on incomplete information.
@@PenOfEvilalright so let's take rev huh, he can go immoral, let's go Max str wisp, let's go dante, lets go styanax,let's go baruuk with elude,rhino I have more on list and they can just outright tank most of supers and dps from destiny. Game wise and not lore wise
One huge problem with weapon scaling. The second a tenno gets their hands on the guardians' weapons, it's over. Forma isn't a mastery mechanic in gameplay it is literally in the universe.
@johntran4478 stuff like void copies and kullervo would carry the fight without the operator. With the operator it just becomes the guardian un able to kill them
The video was fire but your presentation and your points are trash brody if I were you before putting Warframe in a versus battle you should make sure you know all the research and scaling that goes behind the warframes and tenno otherwise you just sound like a destiny fanboy
@@PenOfEvil I’m pretty sure 90% of your audience has never played destiny and don’t understand when they bring up something like limbos pocket dimension, they ignore what happened in the witch queen expansion.
@@PenOfEvil because you are Always Sucking up to D2! IMHO the Guardians only partially compare to Warframes and the Tenno! and BTW i have hundreds of hours in both games, but i've given up on D2 due to Bungee's massive Failures!
@@Grassdia Its not a pocket dimension, its the space between real space and the void, the menbrane inbetween. It is and always was, only limbo could get there and back.
I like how for the guardians, their best feats speak for every single one of them, while ignoring the fact that on average guardians aren't that strong (RIP Cayde). Yes, your guardian can wield strand and go toe to toe with a god, but the Drifter created an entire universe because they were bored and sad. Guardians aren't it. They wield a power lent to them to defend a god from a god. I know the lore of both games extensively. Guardians deal in much smaller numbers against weaker foes, and their ferocity doesn't come from their power, but from the fact that they are warriors who can't die if their ghost is alive. Warframes toppled an empire that in itself makes the Witness look small with the influence and power they wielded. Using the power of Kuva, the Orokin mastered immortality and, through it, ravaged the entire Sol system in the name of their own prosperity. A dax warrior could solo most guardians in a duel, and the Grineer were a force genetically engineered to fight, much like space marines. Each warframe is on an equal footing to the strongest guardians, going by lore. Twisted, infested beings given light from a paracausal source (see what I did there), the Tenno. You cannot kill the devil. The Tenno are truly beings that live behind the veil, who were only as limited as they were at the fall of the Orokin empire because of the fact that they were basically babies compared to what they could become. Then there's OUR Tenno, one who specifically made a deal with a being of the void, which works fundamentally different than the void in Destiny, who enjoys so much influence that the man in the wall may just be a rule of reality on its own. Our Tenno can go face to face with that entity. O youtuber mine, who is so pitifully Guardian-pilled, Warframes versus the Guardians would certainly not be a fair fight. The Tenno would be better fit fighting the Nine itself. As a side note, Koumei. She was created by the Drifter, because the Drifter willed it into existence. This is a little farther than Mara Sov's raw power, don't you think? Creating a frame that has but a fraction of the Drifter's ability, to alter fate? While it is true that Guardians lose to Warframes in a fight no matter the circumstance, I do concede one truth, in that the guardians are much more wise than a bunch of devil children.
As someone who played both games for literally thousands of hours, you clearly don't actually understand the lore or how to make a coherent argument. Guardians part of the video, you used lore and game play to showcase your take and it derailed from there. Warframe was ignored by lore for strength atlas punching a meteor, and when using game play you said you cant use mods but expect audience to ignore all the different game play abilities of the guardians? As if the players don't add weapons or change builds to suit weapons. A lot of this would be up to interpretation regardless because they are two different universes, so this VS is also basically pointless. Regardless, hopefully Destiny 2 survives 2025, because the Guardians won't be very powerful or immortal if they don't have a future. Never mind I guess you have Mobile. Good Luck Guardian
I really disagree because lore means nothing when it's not visually shown for power scaling. Or if it's heavily inconsistent you have to average it. In combat in gameplay warframes clearly best guardians. Beyond that there is the tenno vs guardian power but that's impossible to accurately scale. So warframes win
Just remembering that Guardians take radiation wipes and here comes Qorvex's description "a hulking mass of concrete arranged around a radioactive Crucible Core", and here is his fourth ability "Crucible Blast: Release a beam from Qorvex's Crucible Core. Each enemy struck suffers Radiation Damage with a guaranteed Status Effect. Enemies affected by Radiation Status explode in a chain reaction."
It's crazy that in pure gameplay, Warframes are so much more powerful than Guardians, but lorewise, it would be the opposite. I mean, Antimatter Drop is so much more useful than Nova Bomb, and can be cast repeatedly as long as you have energy. Snow Globe is a better titan bubble. Golden Gun shoots concentrated sun bullets? That's cute, Wisp shoots actual rays from the Sun and Mesa's Peacemakers can drop entire rooms faster than GG's cast animation.
I had to pause in the first five minutes. The disclaimer for not using gameplay abilities and relying on lore and then specifically using Warframes as examples for not being invulnerable and listing no such limitation for Guardians tells me very clearly that you are biased in this. IE, immediately attempt to debuff Warframe and then proceed to list the godly powers of the Guardians. Then you proceed to largely ignore Wareframe's lore and seem to just go by which Warframe you think seem to be the most powerful by gameplay. As for the rest of the video, I think the other comments have that covered. Edit 1: Nullify all inconsistencies and grand them the powers they would logically have? Cool. Guardians keep dying in the gameplay and their powers seem weaker than the lore presents, therefore to be consistent and logical about how they haven't just won the world yet, their powers are not all that. Same with Warframe. But that wouldn't lead to a Destiny win. Edit 2: To much of Warframe's lore is ambiguous, so the only way to say that Warframes would match or defeat Guardians is if you assume it? Never use an argument that can be flipped back around on you, because it means nothing. "To much of Warframe's lore is ambiguous, so the only way to say that the guardians would not get absolutely thrashed by the Warframes and Operators is if you assume it to be that way."
@@PenOfEvil dude, first of all i know is much hard but try to do your homework in warframe, everry mod, everry arcane are cannon, and even iff you wanna just skip that, are warframe have exisit in physical and conceptual like dagatah, savegoth, some other can control your mind. even some like garuda cant recive lethal damage, and the tenno he is nearly a reality warper, if you gonna do a 3 part video for advice, do the first one in one game the second in other and the third and final the fight, rn your video have alooot of issues lore wise in warframe, also some other warframe are half sentient and sentient can adapt really fast to all types of dmg, or have even void power, a power outside our reality, theen you need a fine tunning in your arguments lore wise
Just bad takes all around. The problem with Guardians is the in lore characters you pointed out just had plot armor. By that same idea Batman is stronger than the guardians.
@@PenOfEvilhe’s not wrong man. You seemed to have skimmed the lore massively especially since guardians are massively inconsistent. Physically even Excalibur can go toe to toe with Raiden from Metal Gear. You know the dude that had a sword fight with mechs casually and tossed them around like toys with them being the size of the corpus orbs
The weakest warframe killing the entire d2 universe single handedly, ember can incinerated a whole planet frost can turn ea whole planet into a frost globe so yea their levels of power is pretty crazy. They can literally one man any raid boss we fought even the witness
@@TyToochill Where are you getting any of this from? Nothing about them, at least from the codex, implies either of them can do the things you stated, let alone fight a being that can reshape reality.
Guardians are indeed killable but once you pop the ghost, bye bye. Kill the Warframe, the Tenno jumps out and cannot die and can simply revive their Warframe. The Drifter can just pound the ground and loop time until they get the outcome they want. Guardians are powerful, but the Tenno and their Warframes are built to take on battles larger than them.
@@johntran4478 maybe but that doesnt mean it's easy, if it can then the tenno will die get folded if they leave a Warframe and they are not immune while shooting .
nova is NOT the number 1 most powerful warframe 😭she was number 1 at launch. but warframes like harrow, limbo, dante, kullervo are so much more powerful
@@carolthepyro899 I mean it’s canon with conclave that warframes themselves can even tank that. Meaning they can tank antimatter and the bs other warframes can throw at each other
@@IntrusiveThoughts838 I was talking about general gameplay in a squad setting, not PvP, which btw, NOBODY but a select few play. By that logic tho, in the simulacrum with friendly fire enabled, frames like atlas stomp the meta frames cause of that turning things into stone ability. see how this a slippery slope if bringing modes that aren't relevant in the discussion?
Well this was done in bad faith considering it’s meant to be a power-scaling comparison and this Destiny glazer hasn’t even bothered to comprehend the lore for the sake of accuracy and the foundations of his argument
I find that funny because even the people on the Warframe wiki say things like they don't know for certain. Your bias is ok though. I'm aware of mine and you should be aware of yours 🙏.
You brought no lore to the tenno end of this fight. Also for a cheap shot, inaros destroyed an entire planet wide infestation outbreak with the wave of his arms. And he in virtually immortal and feeds on his foes. Can guardians purge entire planets at will and self revive with their strength? Not the light, their own? Inaros, sevagoth and nidus would like a word. Plus on an additional note. Grendel could just eat the ghost and sit on the guardians. Entities eaten by him have they abilities or linked powers severed entirely while inside him. And can a guardian stop Grendel when their power is cut off and only have less then a minute before they are completely digested by the gluttonous wall of gristle? Also Revenant. If yoyr doing only warframe abilities. Mesmer Skin. Plus if I he controls a guardian and their ghost he can't Reave and 100$ execute them both in and instant while remaining completely untouched. Hell even nyx can just ignore all they can do with her absorb/assimilate ability. And what happens when all that damage comes right back? Goodbye. Plus on a more wild note, who's to say that a guardian could even physically take the beat down atlas can bring? They can't hurt him while he's punching and that boi can crack planetoids with his bare fists! What good is a petrified ghost?! I have played both games and the guardians have no chance against entities that require the very void to destroy! How will they halt the March of void angels? Of the thrax? How can they stop alad V of all people? He survived being infested and was able to rebuild and reuse warframes for his zanuka and succeeded! If alad v got a hold of a ghost he would easily find a way to crack their tech and learn to counter it. He could create a zanuka to rival the ghosts and guardians given time and resources. And when all else fails....can they survive the Jade Light that kills any and everything no matter how strong so long as it has a physical form.
@@PenOfEvilthen don't call the fight without bringing equal measure to each end. Lore Is required to justify the narrative fight. If you cannot bring the lore to bare on both ends, don't enter the ring. Bais is bais. Regardless the guardians can't stop hungry boi Grendel when he wants lunch.
As I said in the community post as a warframe fan and non destiny player from what I understand about the power levels of destiny lore wise there was a book that just flat out stated every guardian to be universal level or something along those lines, I don't know what the book fully says but with my knowledge it very much comes across as an "infinity plus 1" moment that isn't well portrayed in Destiny's gameplay whilst Warframes quicker pace better portrays their lore strength if that makes sense.
That's my biggest problem with the lore of Destiny, the guardians seem to be more around the level of normal people gameplay-wise than not, but in lore they're gods. It genuinely makes me feel like either the lore is pure lip service, or the guardians are the single most incompetent faction in scifi/fantasy. As written, they shouldn't lose to anything, then get bodied by so much.
@@ShimattaZ Again not a destiny lore person, but pen bringing up the Cabal at the end comes across a bit iffy when I've seen what was an explicitly powerless guardian specifically Zavala run straight towards a cabal and just grab their gun and turn it on them in the destiny 2 campaign.
@@Maxdamage_rulz i agree it does lol but those fat bums got technology strong enough to blow up planets and darkness enhanced versions that have the same powers as the guardians to an extent
I have have played both games and and familiar with lore of both and I don’t think there’s an outcome where guardians win. Yes guardians are strong, but warframes, their arsenal, and the Tenno are OP, that’s kinda the point. Also the confines of which you scaled each side off of was pretty wack, you basically stripped half the shit of warframe and then gave destiny everything. Give each side everything and at max power and then make a video. Don’t exclude anything. Making this video was a weird way to admit you understand very little of warframe and its lore.
@PenOfEvil have you even seen the lore the moment they enter his pocket world they are powerless he can do whatever he wants in the pocket world in lore
@@danjan4941heard about the dreaming city? They defy all logic even in other lower dimensions (like how a 2d drawing can draw itself and isn’t bound by the artist) how you expect them to obey his rules?
Guardians have been in other peoples dimensions before idk if you’ve heard of throne worlds but they are pocket dimensions created by gods and the guardian does whatever inside them
@@Grassdia the problem is that you can't enter the rift (limbo's dimensions) without his permission. And you can't do anything in the rift if limbo doesn't want you to. It's in his name, you are in a limbo, you can't move you can't speak, you can only observe
It's an interesting debate. The witness and indifference are largely mysterious, but the man in the wall is a different beast. It isn't constrained by the laws of time or space, but neither is the witness, I think it would honestly go down as the strangest match of chess the universe has ever seen
Wally is capable of of copying and toying with the witness. Since the witness is an amalgamation of their entire race in one being, they have emotions and Wally loves messing with emotions. This would be a battle between a dimensional God vs a Godlike being. I'm not sure who would win, but I'd believe that the witness would have a very hard time.
@@ReviewersGuildArSR ok to expound on this, based on new information and context from the latest quest, Wally can not only copy another person, but he can actually possess and gradually take over that person's very being. He's essentially a sentient cogneto-hazard. Worse, he only needs a foot in the door to start causing hell and that takes literally only 1 person to accomplish. It's also of note that the only thing allowing the tenno to contest him is that the drifter is a pure paradox where instead of what should have been a version with and a version without his gifted powers, the drifter acquired them due to a whole lot of Ballas messing up the script for everyone. The truly scary thing though is that Wally is kind the polar opposite of the witness, while at the same time the witness is kind of Wally's wet dream of a fascination. So logically what you'd get in a vs is Wally meeting the witness, then proceeding to utterly break all concept of cause and effect, trapping the witness in an endless cycle of psychological torment as each and every entity within them is driven into a raving homicidal lunatic. TLDR: it would go very, VERY poorly for the witness cause the base laws of paracausality that the Traveler and Winnower are working with are also the things Wally plays with like playdough for fun, putting him on their tier of entity.
This whole thing is stupid and i disagree I think youve overestimated the gardians. And warframe lore is a mess and largly coveted so i dont blame you for underestimating the tenno and warframes. Hear me out. Some of the more impressive feats done by the gardians were not done with raw power, but but by putting the enemy into a temporarily weakend state. Exp when fighting oryx you would do counter rituals. These universis are just not on the same scale. In destiny you fight wanna be gods. Figures that have gained enough power they believe that they are gods just from not having anything eles to compare themselves to. But you compare any of these to the indiference, the man behind the wall. If it envelops you in the void you are in its reality where it makes all the rules. Fighting it is like fighting the rain the only thing we've been able to do is restrain its influence. This is the opponent for the tenno because anything less would be a cake walk. People want to compare these game with each other but you can't they are just not in the same ball park. Both universis re scaled compleatly differenlty based of the player charator. Destinys gardians are able to find a way dispite the odds to find victory in the darkest places and its what makes gardians so great. The tenno are wannabe gods. Beings of pure void energy. Warframe is a power fantasy game where the lore reflects how strong you feel in the game. Holy molly im really getting into this This sounds stupid because it is. The tenno are immortal in the same way you cant destroy energy. When the oporator "dies" he actually just kinda disipates because thats what he thinks would happen if he died. Continue on. The story Kinda flip flops over to the drifter. he does some stuff and pulls the oporators consioness into his timeline. They chat for a sec (the drifter and the oporator are the same person from different timelines based of eternalism) They then take every possibility of the oporator and difter in all the time lines and conjoin all that power into one. This is important because the tenno boost the power of whatever warframe they are in. The atlas feat was done by a warframe and tenno from the old war. They are basically powerless when you compare them to the player charactor now. They had no real idea of the extent of their power and were heavily restricted by the orokin. When compaired to the player they're basically just a means to controle the beast that is a warframe Do you see how stupid this whole thing is. Warframe lore is an awefully writen fan fic that makes zero sense at times. I will try and answer questions as best i can
Their is also another theory that when the tenno convergeged all his timelines he coverged all the timelines making only one. Then went back in time and changed events so an entire faction will never come to power. If this is true i think the player tenno sits firmly in god territory. Not just a wanna be god
@@D9E2E1P2 well technically it would be two, I guess? The Drifter is the only other remaining Operator timeline, but they are stuck in the void and can inly switch places with the operator (and appearently be in the same together as of 1999) so I guess it could be true, but it's kinda reaching. Tho tbf considering the rest of warframes crazy lore this wouldn't surprise me lmao
@@cgyue right its kinda all over the place cuz you can play as the operator or drifter when texting the hex. But the jade shadows quest heavily implies the drifter isnt there. It'll even switch if you were playing as drifter The thing that feels best... if you accept it. Is when they conjoined only the drifter and operators consciousness survived. Its also weird cuz they dont have phisical forms they just feel more comfortable meterializing one
I would like to point out, putting immunity to everything off the table seems to be another way to tip the scale towards destiny considering not only do multiple frames have a No i dont die/even take damage ability the Tenno themselves can completely phase out of existence in a way that makes them immune to everything as well. I dont think the Guardians have anything remotely like that but i could be wrong.
@PenOfEvil warframes have them as passive abilities as well as regular and their ultimate. Also in warframe all the frames abilities are Canon. Not just game mechanics
People forget atlas shattered an asteroid with his bare hands Spoilers ahead A lore accurate operator abilitiy is just disrupting time and space or drifter just reseting time and many more Second of all Every single mod, arcane,shards, buffs etc that you get and deal like -2.14 billion dmg (breaking the integer limit in a game where it panics) is all canon in lore as well.
@@isaiahgarnes9801yall call anything glaze I said one thing, and it’s a fact if you truly know what limbo himself is basically a god in his rift, but I haven’t even touched on what could the Tenno/drifter could do to the guardians 😭🙏🏽
The Witness is not the founder of darkness, Titan isn't a moon of Jupiter and Ikora uses blink and transmats which aren't exactly teleportation powers. Atheon's portion is in-universe speculation from other characters. Officially we don't know his role in the vault, just that all of his powers worked only inside the vault of glass itself and (presumably) the vex network.
Saturn my bad. If it was speculation from people then I would agree but speculation from characters in the game allude to truth most of the time. Thank you for the corrections though, I do not know too much about destiny lore 🙏
@@PenOfEvil Tenno were speculated to be demons from the void, warframes were just empty shells and the technocyte virus was not supposed to be able to assimilate everything, but yet here we are
@@PenOfEvil In Destiny speculation from characters doesn't always allude to truth because truth is a funny thing. We have lorebooks about Calus written from his or his subbordonate's perspective about things that never happened, stories from Destiny 1 like Shin Malphur's not being what they seem later on in Destiny 2, the entire backstory of The Witness being mixed up with that of The Winnower for years until the very last moments of The Final Shape, Truth to Power in general etc. Basically anything that the characters themselves are speculating about is put there specifically to allow them to change it later if they wanted. Saint-14 being speculated to be the real deal until he wasn't in episode Echoes is another example of that.
This matchup is quite interesting, perhaps you would be interested in making a longer deep dive into this? I feel as there are quite a few missing context in both the guardian's side and on the warframe/tenno's side which would probably effect the outcome.
This seems bias I mean, "No gameplay" is so stupid considering that almost all the warframes have no lore based abilities, and if you take their abilties as in what the description states, theres at minimum 1 frames that turns entirely immortal as part of their abilties, with lots of other frames having abilities that simply prevent all damage and frames that have abilities that kill no matter what, like saryn which spreads a virus that spreads and kills anything, and the only thing that prevents it from spreading across the universe is that it keeps getting more fatal until everything afflicted dies before it can spread further Then theres the fact that the tenno beat immortal beings like void angels, liches and sisters of pavos like its a regular tuesday
After reading some of the more comprehensive comments that provide counterpoints, i have to agree that it doesn't seem like you understand the lore and feats of Warframe very well. Especially when it comes to anything involving the Void or Transference. Im not even sure you did your due diligence with studying all the warframes, because you never even considered Harrow's feat of holding back the single strongest entity and deity of the warframe universe. Instead, you pick mag, again. And... Grendel? I've enjoyed your videos, but do your due diligence on the next warframe related one.
@zhongli5689 I'm not as studied on individual warframes as i am the big picture of the tenno and setting, so i couldn't say, but if that's confirmed, that is very funny and very true.
Guardians could only possibly win in strictly lore. But you ignore the lore regarding warframes Because it's not shown in game. Guess what guardians can't run on walls. Sprint while reloading. Or kill hundreds of enemies a minute. And you refuse to really acknowledge that
@@drep8840 No, and a guardian is not based on that. And warframe is far more complex, cause every frame has a different abillity. And guardians are just different. And a guaridan dosent want that to do. Still you can kill easy inaros with for example weaken effect, severed and song of flame with neocrotics and stareaters. Use movement with mountaintop and kill with choir of one from hip.
just wow... didn't think I would see somthing so poorly researched today. Don't bother answering to this with the obligatory "why don't you give critics or reasons", the comment section is full of those, you just seem to ignore them.
If you are saying that you watched the entire video and you still think it is poorly researched then you are completely correct there's nothing I can do about that 😂
Thanks to eternalism there is a universe where the Guardians win, and a universe where the Tenno win. The Tenno will simply be assigned to the one where they win.
I think you just need to stop talking about Warframe if you're not gonna actually do due diligence and research properly, my guy. Lots of folks gave lots of reasons across these videos why you're downplaying Warframe and you continue to do so, looking down on Warframe like it's gum under your shoe.
Gum under my shoe is crazy 😂 I gave proof of everything I've done, played and researched and it wasn't enough. What's next you want me to make a video with 30 mins of just Warframe lore, no not happening. Pandering is something I won't do. People hear the verdict and react, it has nothing to do with research.
Been playing Destiny and Warframe both for around or over 10 years. Guardians are strong without a doubt, but the Tenno could literally do things like down a Guardian, then use transference to possess the Ghost. Also, could potentially do it with Exo’s, meaning the Tenno could use a robot Guardian the same as a Warframe. Could probably do it to the Vex too. They can shift back and forth between void and physical form at will and negate all damage, can chain teleport. The Tenno/Drfiter cant even die if they wanted to. The Tenno/Operator just goes back to void form, and then can immediately become physical again, so instant revival, and with Drifter (alt timeline version of the Tenno) has the ability to rewind time upon his death. The Guardian could try to kill them, but time would be reset and would be stuck in that fight until they ultimately lose. My Warlock is OP af, but my Tenno and any of the Warframes would destroy my Warlock. The weapons and frames alone with the mod system, not including pets/companions, gear (necromechs, motorcycles, space battle ships, arch wings, hoverboards). D2 was my favorite game for a long time, but 2 Tenno could take on a whole platoon of Guardians. There’s literally no way to kill them. Think of the Void like a Hive Throne World. Except even if you kill the Tenno there, they still come back. The one downfall is The Guardians absolutely needing their ghost. And with the Tenno/Drifter doing their version of Void damage (what could be considered a paracausal damage), they just need one good shot with their Amp, and the Guardian is cooked. There are so many reasons Guardians would lose. A Tenno’s Glaive is literally an infinitely reusable nova bomb of any damage and element(s) that can also slice through the Guardian, and that explosion from the glaive may even take out the Ghost at the same time. If a Phlanx Shield can one tap a guardian, they have no shot against Tenno and Warframes
I think it would have made more sense to compare the Guardians to Tenno themselves, not their Warframes. Warframes are just tools, which you can think of like weapons, which they also use. The Tenno have classes like the Guardians (known as "schools") and manipulate the Void, much like Guardians with their Light and Dark. Personally I think the real purpose of comparison videos like this is to bring two fandoms together and show off some of the coolest parts of each but I think you've missed some of the best ones from the Warframe universe.
I mentioned in the video to watch my other videos otherwise this video wouldn't be a reasonable length. It was taken into consideration though. Also I can't answer you if you comment 9 different times. I'd love to talk though 😁
@PenOfEvil how can we talk? The issue is it seems like you disregarded alot of the questlines. Saying nova is the strongest warframe, when harrows chains are able to restrain the man in the wall who is the sauce of harrows powers and can erase infinite universes from a single handshake.
@@PenOfEvil This is not bad criticism. but instead of expalin just about destiny for 10 minutes. you should go between the two subjects. to making more interactive with the viewer. but good video, bro. keep going.
@@floppy3962 that's a theory as it is quite literally never explained though I hope you understand that I cannot fully explain the tenno's theoretical power as that would take the whole. And as much as I love theory I cannot include theories as a part of capabilities. The tenno's abilities weren't mentioned because from what we know they can do its not enough for this battle. They have many hacks they have nothing that the guardians haven't seen. We are talking about damn near demigods that have committed deicide several times 😂. I can't reason that the tenno could do that. Mind you I played and watched everything there is in Warframe and I've covered it on this channel as well so there is my proof. So I don't know what you can tell me about tenno that will change the verdict even in the slightest. I'd say this is not a close fight but bruh this isn't a fight at all. The guardians annihilate Warframes and everything in their universe before breakfast the next morning 😂. Immortality, that's it?
Warframes CANNOT die. There are also infinite Tenno in one universe as all timelines were merged in lore by the Man In The Wall. Tenno can teleport from Earth to the Zariman which is on the outer edges of the galaxy. Prime Warframes which you conveniently forgot are indestructible and always present. You also missed out Nidus, who can control Infested and therefore the Zealoid Prelate which is immortal if they don’t have Arlo’s Flame (which they don’t) so they literally CANNOT kill it. You also missed out on the abilities of Nekros such as Soul Punch, where he literally removes your soul from your body. You ALSO missed out Nyx whose entire kit is centred around mind control and she can control multiple people at once. You ALSO missed out Jade who can just straight up kill people with the Jade Light and that turns them into glass that they can’t be saved from. Same with Revenant who also has mass mind control and an all immune ability (1 + 2) . You also missed out everything about Archwings and Necramechs which the Tenno have. Protea can just rewind time. Loki can teleport and literally just disable all Guardian weapons. Harrow can absorb all damage. Khora can create a “Strangledome” that forces other enemies to kill enemies caught. Frost can deep freeze any moisture and Vapor which would immobilise guardians as they still need to breathe and have blood, as well as it being invulnerable. He can also instantly freeze any enemies in an 8m radius. Inaros is just immortal. Mesa can reflect all bullets and also store damage dealt to her by guns and then fire it back in one bullet. Titania can force enemies to go to a targeted enemy and then they explode. I could go on but I have other things to do.
ok I can't hear anything because background music BEAT is too loud on my speakers so I dive into the comments and these are pure gold 😁👍 I always thought that D2 Guardians are more powerful than Frames, but less powerful than Tenno. And I don't have an issue with that as an ex-D2 player who enjoys Warframe Lore.
I understand that you put a lot if effort into making this video but one little thing I'd like to add is that limbo only failed that calculation because he was attempting to do something similar to a void jump which caused issues as the rift isn't as flexible as the void Or at least that's what I understood from the little lore de gave us on the top hat man
I say both, both have entropic powers (therefore both must be paracausal) both can kill each other (Guardian vs, the any and/or all Warframes) BUT not against the Operator since if they die in anyway shape or form The Void will just recreate them again forever while Guardians are just tied to their Ghosts Now for The Witness vs. The Indifference: The Witness believed that causality is the cause of all suffering and wishes it to be stopped through "The Final Shape" The Indifference is the COMPLETE opposite and contradictory to that belief for The Void is itself chaos and entropy The Witness with the Light and Dark CAN absolutely reshape the Void in it's entirety, but without the Light, the indifference probably fight against it
Heres the thing, Ive had this debate before, and I can't say for sure which would win, but I still firmly believe that it would not be an easy fight for either side. Problem is, I dont think a lot of people really understand how powerful a gaurdian really is, and how the elements they wield isnt as simple as fire, ice, lightning, weird goopy stuff, but building blocks that make up reality. I think that warframe does a lot better however of conveying just how powerful the things you're playing as are.
Ikr I understand the general audience is biased to warframe but as far as I know none of them have read the unveiling and don’t know who the winnower is or how the guardian doesn’t just use the light but also the dark and could probably in theory, manifest nightmares similar to the the indifference since they know how to use darkness abilities.
@@PenOfEvil yeah it’s kinda hard to really compare them imo since they both rely on the void and the light to use their abilities and both light and void are seemingly infinite according to the lore.
@@PenOfEvil man it really didnt seem like that from the video. besides you're questionable choices for most powerful frames you seem to have misunderstood what happened when Ballas stabbed us, you know when he explicitly mentioned he couldn't kill us but could send us back to hell? Using that as a reference for how long it takes a tenno to come back from death is ridiculous. Especially when as admittedly revealed recently the drifter themselves doesn't believe themselves capable of dying and even can go so far as to say death as a concept doesnt make sense to be applied to them. Numerous feats of frames or the operator are completely ignored while destiny gets all of its special subclasses mentioned and explained just how powerful they are. Nevermind the fact that killing a Void Angel involves collapsing the dimensional orbs it uses to protect itself. Which is done as the operator themselves not the frames.
Guardians need time to recharge their weak abilities. Meanwhile warframes going ham with almost infinite ability spam that can nuke an entire encounter from a destiny raid or amplify their weapon damage and crits to solo kill caretaker
They can shoot a void beam in different ways and teleport and go intangible for a short period of time. It makes no difference in the end. Unless you got something else in mind?
@@PenOfEvilthe drifters ability to alter time? Rewind it There ability to take over constructs necromechs oro worms They can go into people's minds but they gotta grab you At one point the drifter created a dimension within the void granted they got stuck and completely forgot what was going on being trapped in there own loop only remembering after taking back the throne then resetting time They use void speak to kill immortals permanently or force them to submit But last thing if would be them being connected to the void being completely immortal
@@PenOfEvil brother, you said in the first SECONDS of the video that this is not a gameplay fight, don't make videos like this if you have no idea about the lore of one of the two games
@@cgyue watch the whole video I promise what needs to be addressed is addressed aside from that I'm not going to explain theory to everyone because that isn't lore. If the lore doesn't say then it doesn't exist 😂
This is actually a well-made video, and I appreciate you listening to the criticism and complaints about the last debate you did and doing more research on the matter and addressing them. You -main- made a strong case and argument and most of the things you said I don't think we can logically debate against. Theres a few things that could be debatable, but otherwise you made a strong Irrefutable argument for most of your statement. There are a few things that I would like to add, not as an argument, but just as an extra thought or note. I think few more warframes could have been used as examples for "the strongest" such as harrow who held back The Indifference for eons, but this could easily be due to Rell as well or Xaku who uses pure raw void energy and can 25-75% to straight up phase through damage and can steal and replicate weapons, or even Revenant who is stated to violate causality and seems to be one of the less logical frames along with Xaku. I also would like to add that I agree that most the enemies that the Tenno fight aren't as strong as the guardian's, but if we were to place the Tenno's foes into destiny or have them face the Guardians, I don't think they would win, but I feel like they could cause trouble with their Eximus units due to their Overguard (making them temporally immune to the light and crowd control) and their eximus abilities and Kuva Liches and Sister tier foes. I'd argue even the sentients would be able to adapt to most guardian abilities that aren't pure paracasual or pure light/darkness. Also, I don't know if energy base attacks can actually hit limbo in the rift or if that's merely gameplay, same with warframe abilities being capable of hitting foes while they're in the rift, which kinds of contradicts the (you can't touch things in a separate plane as you) rule of the rift, but I'm willing to assume both are equally true or false. I also thought the reason limbo died was not because he went into the rift, but because he used it to teleport across the system, which is why a miscalculation killed him. Which he could theoretically be do to a guardian. using the rift to teleport them and purposely messing up the miscalculation o scatter them across time, dimensions, and space. As I've seen in another comment, you didn't mention the Tenno Operator or focus abilities. Even though I doubt it would impact the outcome much it would have been a nice mention. Also, one more thing, most people don't really consider the skill of the Tenno and rarely take it into account. I know the Guardians have more experience and have showed to be competent combatants; however, I generally think the Tenno are simply more skilled in martial prowess and possibly marksmanship Aswell considering how they have a wide broad of strange and differing melee and range weapons and can master them multiple times over. Also consider how the Tenno have multiple stances for different melee weapon, and just like Teshin I feel they are capable of switching on the spot like he is, yet it's not a gameplay feature so it's nothing more than a mere speculation that is supported by the Tenno's track record of being extremely skilled. With a large power gap, skill and martial art abilities might not mean to much, but it's something to take into consideration.
I greatly appreciate it, things I didn't mention were solely to preserve time. I did take it into consideration. So much speculation is littered in the Warframe community that many take speculation as fact although it's never stated by the game itself only assumed to be so. It's impossible to be truthful about this versus battle and not poke a beehive 😂
You know, wouldnt it be funny if a Destiny glazer were to debate an Warframe glazer to see how the conversation would go and if there even would be an conclusion?
first sorry in advance for the spelling mistakes english is not my native language. i don't know enough about the destiny universe to describe to visualize their power but i know that they face the equivalent of divinity, which seems to them to be divine beings (if it can be killed it is not divine) i also know that a very small number of guardians are really capable of the actions described, yes they all have access to these different classes (i don't know if they can change class), but that doesn't change the fact that only a small percentage of guardians are really powerful and not just soldiers dying in chains to try to stem their inevitable end. i'm not going to argue about destiny further because you seem to know much more about it. as for warframe, i think i saw a comment that indicates it but warframes are literally warheads on legs. Atlas can destroy a meteor with the strength of his fists alone. Inaros covered an entire planet in a sandstorm (a single warframe). as far as we know Kumei can see an incalculable number of futures and choose the best one. Limbo can travel in a dimension between reality and the void and pop up where and when he wants. etc... I'm not going to list the 50+ warframes. I know that the guardians can come back to life thanks to their specter and that these specters can be killed (I think it was a bullet of void or darkness for Cade 6) small point the Tenno (operator, the warframes are only mobile weapon platforms) use the void and can kill entities that like them should not be able to die. Xaku (the warframe) uses the Void and powers all the weapons he steals (yes, steals with the power of the void in addition to their previous ability, so yes, every time a guardian dies and their specter appears to resurrect them, a single bullet from the Void will be enough to destroy them. in a fight between 2 opponents with centuries of experience and the ability to come back to life, the one who can come back most often, quickly and with certainty is the one who will win, the guardians have no security on their resurrection, even in their own universe. not to mention the fact that the traveler can just go back in time to inform all the Tenno of their opponent and this in a loop. I would say that very quickly the fight would be of we do not know how many Tenno, the time never specifies (but I would say given the size of the Zariman max 1000) and the remaining 1% of the Guardians who are really capable of the actions described in the video and yes invincibility is real in the story, Valkyr becomes totally invincible during her ultimate
its kinda unfair to compare the Tenno to any other universe. The Tenni are literally immortal and can posses any one anything, so they could take controll over a Guardians body. also my limited knowledge of Destiny tells me the Guardians are the good guys. So if that would happen, im pritty sure the Tenno and Guardians would team up and never fight each other. Can you imagine, a guardian paired with an immortal healer Tenno?
Where are the defense for the warframes bro been glazing the guardians to say that destiny's enemies are all stronger than Warframe enemies is crazy void angels sentience fragmented one infestation kuva lich that's crazy man 😂 sounds like someone's painting a narrative sucks to see he's one of my favorites every Warframe player knows part of the gameplay is part of lore the helmeth system in lore says able to use a warframe's abilities in the game it disintegrates a full-fledged Warframe and now you have whatever ability that Warframe had it's just common sense just because they didn't say that it takes all of the Warframe powers it doesn't mean it ain't Canon as that's what the infested do😅 gameplay wise there needs to be a balance today lore wise there's no limit the evidence you've put was weak for the warframes strong for the guardians and that's what I call painting a narrative also that is the only guardian speed feet the infinite Forest you're probably one other the one thing about the infinite force is that it's a simulation and everyone knows the tax cannot create simulations exactly like the real world there's always a flaw so that can't really be used pcausality is just another way to say magic and the vax can't simulate that pretty pcausality so it mess with it but hi 👍🏿
You can tell you did the bare amount of research when it comes to Warframes. Some of the deeper lore is pretty well hidden. But that doesn't excuse the ignorance when making a video like this. You did Warframes dirty. You did the Tenno dirty. Tenoo literally can not die, reality rewrites itself to make that not happen and not some year long wait, it is instant. Do better.
My goal is not to make a Warframe video then the opposite would happen. If Warframes won it doesn't matter what I said. Literally when the infested won against the tyranids no one bats an eye. I'm not gonna add 15 more minutes of conjecture to prove what I already know. I appreciate all of you and always will.
@@PenOfEvil You know nothing, Jon snow. You argument was trash, your video was trash, do better. Even Destiny players like myself know that Warframe would win hands down. Get real, kid.
@@PenOfEvil considering the average warframe is already a powerhouse, it's easy to assume that the vessels, made to specifically fight the indifference, might be even more cracked than the average warframe.
Well yes but they're also proven to be mortal once fully cut off from the traveler. So per say limbo, who can literally just casually send people to and from a pocket universe he has full domain over, could simply send them and/or their ghost and cripple them. As it's not gameplay they wouldn't be visible anymore to anyone but limbo. Aside from that guardians do have an edge against the frames mostly if they're strong in light. Mainly just the player guardian would be problematic however not all are as strong in paracausal forces. So send limbo against those with the strongest connection into a meer mortal killing both the ghost and them in the separate lightless realm and then send nova and a few other Warframs that are obscenely powerful to wipe out as many ghosts and guardians as they can
"guardians are basically gods" up until a tenno pops a cap in the ghost. warframes and tenno, guardians can not kill them. so a tenno and frame can simply walk to the guardian, they don't need to run. they die, eh, dump void energy into the frame and refresh it. guardians, while having a ghost can revive, tenno can just do that, only way to kill one is be one. gotta have that oro.
Paracausal powers defy the laws of reality so I have no reason to think it can’t trump Void powers of the Tenno. They can use Light and Darkness. Guardian can and have beaten stronger foes than themselves consistently.
Hard disagree. Tenno revives are not tied to a bot that can get shot. Cayde 6 is all the evidence I need to know that they could never win an endless fight against the Tenno.
Cayde is a special case. His ghost was shot with a Weapon of Sorrow, which are Darkness infused weapons meant for killing Guardians. Ghosts are very durable, it took the Cabal doing an orbital bombardment on one to kill it. Now could the Tenno do that? More than likely, but it would still take a lot for them to kill a Ghost.
@@section4344go search vauban or one of many frames *cough cough* nova who can use null star and i think a literal null star is way stronger then orbital strike.
This man use lore for the guardians but gamplay for warframe 😂. I never seen a video so bias in a while. If you need to nerf the warframe to make to make them battle then the outcome is obvious.
Let’s start with not accounting for the mod system, overlooking weapons. Look man I play both and I like both, so watching a video of someone that claim to be unbiased and then doing this porqueria you made. Is a slap on the face for all Destiny and Warframe player. Get your facts straight and unbiased and come back again. If is still the same outcome is fine but at least do a better job in presenting the information.
Btw there not such thing as Warframe vs Guardians, is Tenno. The Frames are just a tool. Also the main antagonist is the man in the wall. Start with that. Good luck!
Okay i agree with the comments even after watching the video, here my main complaints. 1. You talked alot about who the gaurdians have fought but nothing about the tenno and warframes. If we put the sentient into destiny everyone is dead except the very top tiers as sentients are canonically immune to any and all damage except the void which gaurdians dont have. Lets not even bring up the man in the wall because he would smoke everytbing in destiny alone, the void is only limited by imagination, and wally is an eldritch god like being that resides in it and uses it to violate everything. Wally in game is far weaker because one of the orokin cuts some fingers off, if not for that wally would be completely unbound by time, as the void also violates the time rules. The void is basically prismatic + paracasuality + time shenanigans of the vex which guardians dont have an answer to, considering just being in the void would drive them insane and turn them into void angels potentially or just make them rip themsleves apart. Lets not even mention that its cannon the reason we have crossplay was because of wally, hes just far supeior to the witness in every way 2. This video is compleltly off from the start when you dont use the tenno. Warframes are the weapon, tenno are the users. Just as The light is a weapon and gaurdians are the users. If you ask who would win, dude with a gun vs just a gun its blatently obvious who would win 3. Mods, forma,and sheild gating are cannon in warframe lore. Yes actual gameplay mechanics that can be abused to make you immortal are cannon, so i dont see how guardians would get past just sheild gating and mods like rolling guard. 4. I just disagree on the warframes you think are the strongest, rhino and revenant have ways to just be immune to any and all damage on top of sheild gating and those arent really what id consider the strongest.
The Tenno literally can Not Die; the Drifter can manipulate time, space, and matter. The Tenno and Drifter can Tranferrence into anyone or anything including The Guardian. The Drifter and Operator are the embodiment of Multiversal Order and Chaos. EDIT: You didn't play the Chains of Harrow quest (this is lore not gameplay by the way). The Tenno Rell created his own "Throne Realm" and solo the The Man in the Wall, an entity who warps causality [A Level 0 being I might add] for fun, for milennia and held its influence at bay until our character Tenno came which drove Rell insane because of the PTSD from being around other Tenno. Come on now. Rell did this in a weakened state with one Warframe, no amp, or focus school to draw power from while mentally unstable. Imagine what our empowered Tenno, with all Focus disiplines, and an Sirroco Amp (all lore btw) could do.
The power Gap in Warframe is too big against guardians which they move just like human beings do if you ask me, guardians would get annihilated based off of their abilities And speed alone.
Bro sad that guardians kill Gods whit guns and dhen sad tha Warframes don't figth things as that ar strong enugh my man if a God can be killed whit guns why should't a Warframe be capeabel to kill it? Not to mention he strait up left the void Angels/Tharx enemys out that litteraly can only be killed by Void powers that only the tenno has
@@funmbi9876 amir and all of the hex are not fully capable. Aoi literally states she still doesn't have a handle on her powers. Amir can't dodge a bullet. Volt absolutely can.
I can confirm after all the raids and vespers host guardians are not invincible I’ve done thousands of garden runs and almost 100 plus clears in every raid and I’ve seen soooooo many wipes I’m Mr 20 in warframe and you don’t really see mission failed in that game bigggg difference and warframe is wayyyy harder and it’s fun
I've played Destiny since D1 beta and am very new to Warframe but even I know more than it seems you do mate, from just what I have read in game on Warframe I know their immortality is better than the guardians 😁 Now I finished your video I think you are a bit hard for the guardians mate.
This was a one-sided view when it came to the comparison of Warframe and Destiny. It sounds like you have very intimate knowledge of Destiny lore, but you don't know shit about Warframe lore at all. Your video was one dimensional at best. How is this a fair video ? When you don't know all the aspects and history of the Warframe universe ? Destiny only has three classes of characters, and Warframe has over fifty characters. Whatever abilities one Warframe don't have another will. I get it ... guardians have a network of abilities just between those three characters, which is impressive. But the tenno that control the Warframes are forever. If you're going to make a video, you might as well do it right. You have to cover all aspects of both game's lores. There's even abilities in Warframe that the guardians just don't possess.
Warframe is smoking the whole d2 universe even the weakest frame can do serious damage to the most powerful being in d2 thats how deep the frames power can go even the tenno can one man the witness no problem
call me crazy but I feel if we use gameplay Warframe wins handily (various abilities that are simply better than guardian ones (Volt's shield which not only buffs the damage, critical damage and is fully invuln (Also can be picked up & moved with) as a single example of many and this isn't even looking at stuff like Limbo (Hey you now must fight without your guns & projectile weapons), Nova (Can absorb various attacks into her antimatter and we all know how a super works on a non supered (or even a supered) guardian, and Nyx (Guardians, FF is enabled, you all look like the target you are after and this isn't looking at Chaos, Mind control, and defense strips(Know those shields, what if we Removed them.) If we use lore Tenno vs Guardians get more complex but considering a Tenno can just slam the ground in a "No, I do not accept this outcome" style manner setting up a infinite time loop (This ain't looking at lore like Atlas' whom punched a very large, rocket propelled meteor and shattered it to the edges of the system in a single punch) In the end however, Eternalism. Some side notes 1. Limbo only way to take damage in the rift is if you are on his side or use warframe abilities & the like (Energy weapons & such of that nature are ineffective,) 2. Protea kept up a time stasis of around a explosion if memory served 3. the diverse weaponry of destiny is fairly similar to each other, where warframe's tend to be more spicied (So a example you have stuff like the braton, than you have the Corinth, a buckshot shotgun + airburst grenade launcher, various flavors of craziness like arch guns (Stuff made to deal with space fighters), and incarnon weapons (my rifle now shoots a bouncy ball o explosive death) 4. to memory the rhino stomp is just a basic 360 aoe around him (old frame, still a good frame, his durability scales with his enemies) 6. Where did you get years? (Ballas literally sent us into the void, which Wally kept his end of the bargin & kept one of us alive in the universe at all times) Nitpick Phenmor starts as a semi rifle & evolves into a stronger version, not really a HMG in some ways
How is the drifters ability inconsistent and I feel like the second the guardians even get a percentage of a chance to actually kill the Tenno Wally would appear and kill them
So did you look up anything about warframe like you didn't talk about literally anything in warframe like the man in the wall is a god who gave us power or like you know everything we fight are weak because we are pretty a god in warframe and you didn't even talk about the tennos void powers
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
"Don't worry, for my next video I'll research the Tenno"
Well, this is awkward
If you honestly think no research was done I don't know what to tell you 😂
@PenOfEvil well yes, considering that you barely even mention Warframe or Tenno powers, hold Nova as the most powerful one with all other Warframes being insignificant, neglect to mention Warframe skills that actually do render them immune to everything, and still, until this day, argue into the comments section of both videos with your misunderstanding of how Operator immortality is done using Eternalism which was downright explained to us in New War, (confusing it with Warframe immortality which is done using Oro, then misinterpreting Ballas' imprisonment of the Tenno in the Void as actually killing them), and completely neglect to mention Drifter rewinding and looping time by an entire year in 1999
Then yes, either you did not research enough, or you ignored all of it, and what's fatal here is that everything mentioned above happens in-game, so now I even have cause to doubt your "decades of playing Warframe" from the last video
@@Necroxion If this is arguing then I can just say nothing but I don't think that will be better. I'm not gonna say you guys are right about everything cause you aren't. Did I ignore all the other Warframes or simply not have the time to put every single one in there? I literally scrolled through a document I made summarizing every single one. In the VIDEO. 😂I picked ten based on what we know for sure. I even mentioned a few things about the drifter. But enough is not what people here are looking for the Warframes have to win or every single thing about them has to be covered in a single video no exceptions. I watch Warframe fans do this to every video concerning them it's sad at this point. I only have one single question cause nothing I say about Warframes matters at this point who do you think actually beats them? Genuinely not sarcasm.
@@PenOfEvil "I scrolled through a document summarizing every single one!
Oh, but Warframes don't have a skill that makes them immune to everything
The most powerful Warframe attack is just Nova's with the antimatter"
Yeah man I'm actually gonna have to doubt on that statement, because what you mentioned barely covers a fraction of what Warframes do. Sure, Nova's antimatter bomb is powerful in terms of raw destruction, but Warframes also have tactical and subtle skills that can shut down fights easily - we have Equinox and Dante who just need to show up and everyone starts bleeding, we have Dante just casually wrapping everyone in thousands of layers of anti void power protection overshields that also protect against bullets, we have Nyx, Xaku, Nekros, Revenant, and Atlas each having their own flavor of "making foes fight each other", we have Harrow's Covenant, Revenant's Mesmer Skin, Wisp's Decoy, Limbo's passive, and Rolling Guard for example making them literally immune to everything
(And may I remind you that mods are canon because both Duviri-Teshin and Fibonacci mention elemental modding during their respective Alchemy missions, and Veso mentions his "unmodded Plinx" in New War)
Hell, Wisp and Equinox can both transfer damage, so if they just nuked a rat for example then everyone within range would also be dead
It's not that "it's not enough people want Warframe to win in every single vs video", it's that people who rule that Warframes lose often miss out on massive chunks of lore and in-game feats while doing so
And then you still don't mention how the Guardians can counter Drifter just resetting time, or the Operators just respawning by themselves and just making more Warframes, or how the Tenno have entire Dojos dedicated to reverse-engineering their foes' gear and sometimes making their own frames
It's not that they want Warframes to win, it's that you didn't even show all of their tools
@@Necroxion I literally mentioned my take on the drifter's time manipulation abilities cause just like protea they cannot be used willy nilly. The drifter resetting time is cool but then they just get beat on repeat. I'm not saying guardians are immune to death they are just stronger and have the tools to kill a tenno. But that's in the video. I agree modding is canon I said that in the video as well I even said I just can't do it to the extent people want it to be. Cause trying to figure out what mods do in lore in Warframe vs what light does to guardians is a ridiculous task. One that can bear no results. So I just made everything Op I even gave the Warframes more time with an entire counterargument section dedicated to them. Yet the verdict was I didn't do enough research. I'm negating gameplay of course a group of Warframes and guardians can loop immunity indefinitely. There is no fight there. But because I said to you I'll do better I want to ask you. Who do you think would beat Warframes?
okay. wow. there's several problems with your conclusion and complete ignorance towards the tennos powers.
1. the tenno can move at irrelivent speeds with their void sling / void dash ability. the void is a dimension not bound by time and space, the void sling ability erases the time it takes you to reach a target location, and the void dash ability just moves you to that location at that speed
2. the tenno's immortality is instant, what happened in the new war wasnt death, the tenno where trapped in the void by ballas and they where kept there by the man in the walls deal. how the tennos immortality works is actually above the guardians. the guardians can die, but they revive themselves, the tenno actually have zero concept of death. when they die, their death is erased from causality and reality is re-written to erase that possibility. this is what happens in the war within.
3. the tenno have above universal levels of ap, they are able to kill void demons which are stated to be unkillable and above causality just like the tenno, accept the tenno kill them by merging every version of the demon across infinite timelines into a single target, and kill that target. meaning they are killing an entity that has infinite durability.
4. the tenno can give any warframe, or any weapon or character, whatever power level they want from outside of the universe. they do this to mag in the warframe 1999 quest to save her from death (in the good ending)
5. the tenno can transfare into or be eaten by oroworms. this doesnt seem too powerful, but oroworms are stated to erase concepts and inherit their abilities. this means the tenno can eat the guardian, but it also means that if you erase the concept of a tenno, their imortality is so potent the tenno can re-write reality while the concept of who they are is erased.
5. using the parazon, the tenno can kill or brainwash immortal beings of different classes. 1 being the kuva litches, who are immortal through re-birth, and the sisters of parvos who's immortality comes from the same sauce as the tenno.
6. the void copies anything that it touches, this would include the guardians if possible and all of the guardians weapons. kullervo can call upon the void, and if the guardians are copied he would be able to use the guardians weapons. (the weapons are also improved by the void)
7. when stabbed through the heart by a sword that seemingly effects its target across all timelines, it does nothing to the tenno, so that method wouldnt work,
8. the tenno, and harrow individually can manipulate fate and causality,
9. Oro and the tennos void immortality are completely different things. The tenno have oro, but it's not their only method of immortality, it's like a weak tool that every void entity has. All of the sentients have oro, and the paracisis sword actually attacks the oro. The tenno where stabbed through the heart by this sword and where un affected. Oro is specifically important to the warframes ability to revive not the tennos. The word "tenno" is used in the conclave because the second dream hasn't happened yet and the word tenno is used to describe the faction of the warframes not the operator. The warframe community uses the word tenno and operator interchangeably but they aren't the same thing. The operator is the character and the tenno is the faction
Different warframe abilities
Using sunrays (Wisp i think, mentioned in another comment), entering another dimension (Limbo), manipulate time (cant remember wich warframe), eat everything (grendel), manipulate dead enemies (Nekros raising dead army)
And so so many more abilities available at their disposal via the warframes
Should the sentient be mentioned in all of this too? comparing power between characters/species?
someone with real understanding about warframe lore, finally
@Gollet95 warframes are weak compared to tenno
@@floppy3962 I know, but it also sets it more into perspective if warframes with all these powers are weak compared to the tenno
@Gollet95 they aren't weak compared to the tenno because the tenno increase the warframes power. But without the tenno the highest tier warframe feat is inaros being able to create a sandstorm the size of Mars.
But with the tenno / OPERATOR (I'm saying operator because I have seen people use people talking about the tenno faction as anti feats) low tiers like yureli who is the strength of a normal teenage girl can dish out universal levels of ap
"No warframe can go invincible to everything"
Harrows 4:
nyx's 4 as well
Rolling guard mod 😐
and valkyr's now that i think about it
@@iskanderwulfstein7731 that just reminded me that the entire modding system is canon, meaning every overpowered build ever made by the Warframe community is possible in lore.
Harrow, nyx, valkyr, revenant, wisp, wukong, dageth, loki, and any frame with brief respite, or an augur mod, or rolling guard.
alternate title: "Man who's only ever played destiny 2 fails to do even the most basic research."
Tell me how lol 😂
@PenOfEvil you seem to forgot that the operator are immortal and that the drifter can loop time
Tennos dont die and the Warframes are mere disposable tools. Tennos can replicate Warframe as long as they want.
@@AudioVisualAids-i3p this alone is enough to close the argument.
Maybe google....@@PenOfEvil
Homie forgot to mention that if the Tenno battled the 60 eyes that they are literally fighting the concept of time and winning
im not going to assume to quickly because the video isnt over, but you said you wouldn't use the gameplay for scaling. then you mention all the lore accurate destiny stuff, and only the gameplay for warframe ignoring the lore. (of the warframes anyway)
Its as far as he goes… destiny glazer
yes, when he mentioned that protea "cant spam her time traveling ability" like wtf?? in the lore she freezes time like another monday and created another dimension from SPAMING that lol
@ bro he read the lore, he knows that…. Right?
@@belphemmore3802 tbf Warframe Lore its a mess sometimes, for example if you check Chromas Wiki, theres literally nothing about him, but then on the quest Lotus tells you that Chroma was THE MOST powerfull Warframe during the orokin era bro wtf 😭 you cant just say that and leave him with 0 lore, and apparently he still had his own will, and apparently the orokin sended 4 warframes to take him down but they couldnt beat him because he adapted to them, and thats why you need volt, ember, Frost and Zaryn parts to craft him.
And then when Chroma Prime releases he doesnt get a cinemaric trailer, neither answers on his lore 💀💀💀
Warframe game play is warframe lore
Quite literally Lore-Wise Warframes cannot die. Even if you annihilate the entire Warframe they come back with no damage or issues.
Tbh, this is just physical power-wise. Just nyx would probably be able to beat a guardian (as far as i know) by just mind controlling the guardian. Or abilities that make enemies able to fall asleep. Also nekros could just revive fallen guardians or grendel could just hold the guardian in his stomach. Limbo could just send the guardian to a separate dimension.
True, the Tenno could resurrect perma-dead guardians like Cayde 6 as soldiers for their army. Guardians are cooked, the ghost is such a weakness. And the Tenno and Drifter aren't tied to something like that, they just get infinite resurrections. So it becomes a war of attrition, and no matter how stacked it is in favor of the guardians, they will eventually lose because eventually Tenno will take out ghosts with stray bullets and abilities. The guardians have no hope
@@codynovick5701ember alone can just incinerate everything after all she can burn a whole planet to death, she not even beginning even more frames have destruction level power the d2 universe cooked compared to warframe
@@codynovick5701 Yes, they are. To atoms.
@@codynovick5701 So a guardian can still go into the strand dimension and wiping out all 3 with anihaltion. So using electromagnetism, cause arc is. And use anti particles, or just use solar and heat them up at just 10.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 kelvin, and all 4 forces are like immediately after the big bang. Or just put them into a closing wormhole. Or shooting a imense amount of neutrons and protons at very high speeds and then the isotope and element changes, or just ionize them with harmful radiation, a tenno is still a human being. I just say how to defeat them.
@@TyToochill What about electromagnetism and nuclear fusion? so this is arc and solar in the destiny universe. And if the tenno never died, someone else could turn them into taken. Cause in the destiny universe a taken can only be taken if someone never died before. And someone who never died before can take control of the taken. When a tenno is trying getting to light or darkness he needs a ghost or be ready fo that that darkness can corrupt him badly.
I'm noticing you say tenno can be killed. No tenno have never died at any point. Warframes have died, not tenno.
There is one counterpoint: Rell
But that was a particular case.
Rell did die, but that was because he assumed he would die of old age and fully transferred his soul into his Warframe. We learn in duviri drifter was ageing for centuries and was still in good physical shape despite having less void powers to the operator. Rell 'assumed' he would die of old age. It was never confirmed. So departing from his immortal body and becoming one with a very mortal shell was what causes his death in the end.
Edit: no the new war was not a death scene. Ballas even explained that he was fully aware the tenno were incapable of dying. "You cannot kill the devil, tenno. But you can send it back to hell!"
Edit2: i believe guardians can wipe the floor with warframes. Since it has been shown they are just advanced technocyte units without an operator. The hex could barely make their abilities functional and stalker constantly gets shit on.
With an operator on the otherhand. Its the opposite. Since it has been shown the operator is the one who knows how to fully use warframes biology. (Better than the frames themselves). That and the operator's powers makes it a one sided fight.
Edit3: a few comments at the end regarding the time tenno spend being downed and the question if transference is remote.
For the first part: your assumption is based on tenno being sent into the void not that they died. Warframe has great attention to detail, even changing UI for different characters. In the sacrifice quest umbra retains all damage inflicted by the operator after the operator is downed and self revives. Operator even has animation for getting back up for the fight. They do not spend years in the void when going down.
For the second statement: it is remote if done via the somatic link in the orbiter. In-person if not. Most tenno have abandoned somatic link as it was shown that further distance negatively effects the power from transference. Lotus mentions that the relocation to the orbiter will make power greater in the second dream quest.
@thwartgorgon6063 rell was killed. But rell has a comic explaining that he was rejected by the man in the walls deal
@floppy3962 The only comic of rell I'm aware of is him being ousted by the rest of the zarimann survivors. Nothing to do with the deal as far as I'm aware.
Guardian powers are SUPER inconsistent. They move faster than light in one feat, then die by nanobots in another.
What you're saying here is you have no idea how strong a warframe is therefore destiny wins because you understand it more. If the lore of guardians was accurate and fallen kell can tank a nova bomb, they'd blink and earth would be destroyed by the Shockwave
Paracasuality means they are not bound by fate or reality, meaning they can do things that they are physically incapable of doing because their will is strong enough and they are put in a position where they can rise to the occasion of whoever they fight as long as their light is strong enough. This means that their is an upper limit to their power, but they only win because they can overcome their opponent
Warframes are strong because they channel what is essentially a similar power. Did you not learn about how duviri was made? A thought became reality. They channel the power to reshape reality to their liking, which is how they channel abilities in ways that break science. Sound familiar? The battle then is not a battle of science or feats, but a battle of will. Limbo used an equation of the void to casually hop between dimensions. We guardians need a portal for that. Rhino stomps the ground and time ruptures. Shaxx made a big crater. Wei Ning slightly moved a mountain. Atlas one shot an asteroid. I use to think Tenno easily stomp, but now i know that they are the same thing in a different universe, both characters who channel reality breaking powers to rise to the occasion of their opponent.
About reviving, did you not learn about Oro or Kuva? They die and come back because of it immediately.
@Tevatron044 a massive problem with the match up, is the guardians strength depends on their connection to the light.
The tenno can nullify the man in the walls connection to a vessel and the man in the wall is far stronger than a guardian.
So the tenno should be able to just void sling into a guardian, remove the connection to the light. And it's normal dude vs a warframe
@@floppy3962 Sure, The Indifference may be stronger than most individual Guardians, but I don't see how that means a Tenno can sever their connection to the Light, since I don't see the Indifference being stronger than the Light, and even then, Guardians don't need connection to the light to use Stasis and Strand, as seen by Zavala and Osiris.
@floppy3962 this is true, although
Spoilers ahead
like what happened with Arthur, it's likely that their will is strong enough to repel the transference. The question then becomes whether a guardian can repel reality breaking compulsion and that depends on the guardian. The problem with warframe is that as of now, the lore in terms of feats is not well known enough. What we do know is insane enough as it is, but we're not even scratching the surface of what the warframe does. What we do know is that the warframes took down an empire that were revered by Gods and essentially immortal. They terraformed planets and they went down in a single day. That's one hell of a power
@Tevatron044 breaking a link and transference isn't the same thing. Being able to effect the will of a literal slab of rock is wild. Also the quest ends with the drifter literally saying he doesn't have that problem anymore
@section4344 stasis and strand won't do anything. It just removes their immortality is the point
Bro glazing destiny 2
licking even
guardian lore is like that kid no one wants to play make believe with, because he always needs to be better then every one else, and he hasn’t realized people stopped playing with him 15 minutes ago
They amways pull some random shit out of their ass with no lore to back it up. “Guardians are 10x better than frames bcus i say so”
Warframe kid: "I use the last of my energy to put up a barrier shield to block your incoming attack and hopefully survive."
Destiny kid: "Oh yeah? uhh...well then I guess all of a sudden I consume the sun to fuel my convenient anti barrier spell, making it able to destroy any barrier plus infinity. Then, also I do a spell that makes you die permanently, and there is no possible way to counter it."
@@belphemmore3802 an try to make their backstory coincide with every one else’s
@@lilfuzzballa this guys knows exactly what i’m talking about
This video doesn't sound like you actually compared the lore/universes of both games and more like you started making the video with a "winner" already in mind.
Other comments already mentioned a lot but what was particularly annoying to me was how you mentioned that "Gameplay does not constitute to in universe power".
You then support this statement by giving us a short form of The Guardian's lore and how their ability functions (which is good) but then for the warframes you immediately 180 into only giving your assumptions for how they function based on their gameplay/trailers.
Eg1. "There is no indicator of volt running at the speed of light except for the trailer in any other facet of the game" - this is a correct fact in that Volt does not move at light speeds. Their just really fast, like Quicksilver from X-men. Really fast but not at the speed of light. If they were moving at the speed of light everything in the trailer would be a blur/shredded from the speed and not just slowmo/moving quickly among the crowd. It's a correct statement but the way you framed it implies "volt *is* supposed to be as fast as light based on their lore", which was never stated to be so because volt has no lore (poor guy), in order to make your argument that the abilities in warframe are inconsistent and that you will in response, pump up the Guardian's power even higher (which is funny cause the abilities in warframe ARE inconsistent due to how its early development was- starting directionless to a direction- but my issue is that for all the valid examples of inconsistencies you pulled out one you fabricated from your own assumptions.)
Eg2. saying Nova is the ""strongest warframe because antimatter" is an assumption, not a fact. Sure. antimatter is destructive, but when compared to other frames with
- control over dimensions (limbo. Being affected by things outside the rift is purely gameplay only and the result of many nerfs. Again, another assumption from gameplay, not lore.)
- control over time (Protea. who also created a temporal pocket dimension to protect her creator from being lost to the void- though she turned into a former copy/spectre of herself. A copy which still has the ability to manipulate time as during her quest the first thing she did while waking up was sending the player back in time to before they entered the temporal space to "kick them out".)
- control over an ever evolving infestation that corrupts anything it touches (both organic and inorganic) across the system (Nidus. It's hard to describe in a few words how powerful the infestation is in lore)
- the ability to divine the best future and the steps to take towards it/guarantee it happens (Koumei. She does not manipulate the future but is able to predict, and find the best course to handle it. To put into perspective its like the movie troupe of dodging all the punches because you already know at what point in time and space each punch would be in)
- and so on and so forth. There is not "strongest frame" because they are all built to handle specific issues/whims of their original creators. (There are plenty of "weakest" frames though, again due to inconsistencies in lore and being designed to undertake tasks for their creators that aren't very important)
And that's the thing. Warframes are technically just tools. I can definitely see an arguement for where guardians would dominate over warframes because quite a lot of warframes are made rather specifically for each task (though we already have a few frames that could definitely wipe guardians. Limbo being the most obvious one- Am still sad at how gutted his gameplay has become) but they arguments you presented in this video just aren't there/accurate at all.
========== kinda separate section ===========
This part is a bit nitpicky:
In terms of lore though, while I understand not wanting to get into the warframe operators because they are their own whole can of worm and messy lore, for the sake/accuracy of a "powerscaling/comparison" video you do need to realize that "Warframes" are literally just "suits/footsoldiers" for the tenno to operate. The capabilities/legends/lore of each warframe is derived from the actions and powers of the operator that controlled and used the frame's abilities to the fullest. (Only the first iteration/generation of warframes had any sort of sentience left in them before they went insane, the sole exception being one frame who was specifically made to "retain their sentience" as a punishment/torture)
Warframes are equivalent to "weapons constructed for specific situations", tools for the whims of the orokin, a fast, agile, deadly, and seemingly immortal weapon platforms that are controlled from far away. (Sure warframes can "die/fail" in lore but its specifically only the involved "suit" that is disabled. Their Operators are still very much alive, are literally unkillable (realities where they "died" will be erased and switched back into realities where they are alive), and can craft more of those "suits" with modifcations to handle future situations better.
Basically you are comparing the powers of "heros" in one universe against the power of "the hero's guns" in another, of which some are already more than capable of taking out Guardians.
Wasn’t there a quest that stated chroma was the strongest warframe due to his ability to adapt to damage he was taking to make him stronger, make him impossible to kill
@zhongli5689 given that its a quest for the warframe in question, do note that certain levels of "glazing" will be applied to enhance their flavours lol.
Like how in Inaros was treated as a god king by the people on Mars , Koumei as a guardian/diety for the ostrons, and Jade who was turned into a warframe as punishment but kept in stasis as her power of disintegration was used to execute/vapourize criminals "mercifully".
It's easy to say "x is strongest" but in warframes case where there are so many "out there" stories it's hard to say which exactly stands on top (especially since they are constructed for their own specialized tasks and not to compete with each other)
On the other hand, its easier to say which ones are the weakest lorewise though. Like frames that literally has no lore yet or funny music maker octavia and surfer girl Yareli (they aren't bad but lorewise definitely not as crazy as the rest)
Using conjecture on an argument is not how this works. The point is if I take exactly what Warframes can do and not what people theorize they can do, they lose so much more. Protea died to create Granum void. Her time manipulation has very strict limitations. But no one says anything about that they just assume she is all powerful. Same thing with limbo. The Warframe community has a habit of taking something small and inflating to the point of absurdity with no proof so when I get in there and do the work of research I find that a lot of what people say either isn't there or were theories based on incomplete information.
@@PenOfEvilalright so let's take rev huh, he can go immoral, let's go Max str wisp, let's go dante, lets go styanax,let's go baruuk with elude,rhino I have more on list and they can just outright tank most of supers and dps from destiny. Game wise and not lore wise
@@PenOfEvil ok D2 fanboy! whatever, cant see your own bias for the infinite garden in your eye! lol
One huge problem with weapon scaling. The second a tenno gets their hands on the guardians' weapons, it's over. Forma isn't a mastery mechanic in gameplay it is literally in the universe.
@johntran4478 stuff like void copies and kullervo would carry the fight without the operator. With the operator it just becomes the guardian un able to kill them
@floppy3962 void energy is literally reality bending energy......
@johntran4478 yes
@@floppy3962 I think you're thinking of Xaku with their turret ability. Kullervo is more of a melee type
@godzelda123 with what? If you're talking about the calling uppon the void. Kullervo's LORE states that he can call upon the void
I hope people don't waste any time on this video, unless you want to keep listening to a dude constantly being impreg by Destiny for 25mins 😂
Thank you for watching!
The video was fire but your presentation and your points are trash brody if I were you before putting Warframe in a versus battle you should make sure you know all the research and scaling that goes behind the warframes and tenno otherwise you just sound like a destiny fanboy
How😭
@@PenOfEvil I’m pretty sure 90% of your audience has never played destiny and don’t understand when they bring up something like limbos pocket dimension, they ignore what happened in the witch queen expansion.
Fr 😂
@@PenOfEvil because you are Always Sucking up to D2! IMHO the Guardians only partially compare to Warframes and the Tenno! and BTW i have hundreds of hours in both games, but i've given up on D2 due to Bungee's massive Failures!
@@Grassdia Its not a pocket dimension, its the space between real space and the void, the menbrane inbetween. It is and always was, only limbo could get there and back.
I like how for the guardians, their best feats speak for every single one of them, while ignoring the fact that on average guardians aren't that strong (RIP Cayde). Yes, your guardian can wield strand and go toe to toe with a god, but the Drifter created an entire universe because they were bored and sad.
Guardians aren't it. They wield a power lent to them to defend a god from a god. I know the lore of both games extensively. Guardians deal in much smaller numbers against weaker foes, and their ferocity doesn't come from their power, but from the fact that they are warriors who can't die if their ghost is alive.
Warframes toppled an empire that in itself makes the Witness look small with the influence and power they wielded. Using the power of Kuva, the Orokin mastered immortality and, through it, ravaged the entire Sol system in the name of their own prosperity. A dax warrior could solo most guardians in a duel, and the Grineer were a force genetically engineered to fight, much like space marines. Each warframe is on an equal footing to the strongest guardians, going by lore. Twisted, infested beings given light from a paracausal source (see what I did there), the Tenno.
You cannot kill the devil. The Tenno are truly beings that live behind the veil, who were only as limited as they were at the fall of the Orokin empire because of the fact that they were basically babies compared to what they could become.
Then there's OUR Tenno, one who specifically made a deal with a being of the void, which works fundamentally different than the void in Destiny, who enjoys so much influence that the man in the wall may just be a rule of reality on its own. Our Tenno can go face to face with that entity.
O youtuber mine, who is so pitifully Guardian-pilled, Warframes versus the Guardians would certainly not be a fair fight. The Tenno would be better fit fighting the Nine itself.
As a side note, Koumei. She was created by the Drifter, because the Drifter willed it into existence. This is a little farther than Mara Sov's raw power, don't you think? Creating a frame that has but a fraction of the Drifter's ability, to alter fate? While it is true that Guardians lose to Warframes in a fight no matter the circumstance, I do concede one truth, in that the guardians are much more wise than a bunch of devil children.
As someone who played both games for literally thousands of hours, you clearly don't actually understand the lore or how to make a coherent argument. Guardians part of the video, you used lore and game play to showcase your take and it derailed from there. Warframe was ignored by lore for strength atlas punching a meteor, and when using game play you said you cant use mods but expect audience to ignore all the different game play abilities of the guardians? As if the players don't add weapons or change builds to suit weapons. A lot of this would be up to interpretation regardless because they are two different universes, so this VS is also basically pointless.
Regardless, hopefully Destiny 2 survives 2025, because the Guardians won't be very powerful or immortal if they don't have a future. Never mind I guess you have Mobile. Good Luck Guardian
I don't even play destiny, did you watch the whole video the second half is dedicated to Warframe. Or did you see the verdict then comment?
@@PenOfEvil oh God man, this is even worse
I...uhh...at least make an effort to know both settings well before you even compare them
@@SuperLogan8054 you just sound sour lol did destiny hurt you? Was it warframe that brought you back from that hurt, Tenno?
1 tenno would be enough to kill all guardians with a basic amp xD
with a freaking mote amp 🤣
if a tenno wants to use light, he has to die, where is there any way around? no one. Expect for wishes but there are no more wishes.
I really disagree because lore means nothing when it's not visually shown for power scaling. Or if it's heavily inconsistent you have to average it. In combat in gameplay warframes clearly best guardians. Beyond that there is the tenno vs guardian power but that's impossible to accurately scale. So warframes win
Just remembering that Guardians take radiation wipes and here comes Qorvex's description "a hulking mass of concrete arranged around a radioactive Crucible Core", and here is his fourth ability "Crucible Blast:
Release a beam from Qorvex's Crucible Core. Each enemy struck suffers Radiation Damage with a guaranteed Status Effect. Enemies affected by Radiation Status explode in a chain reaction."
It's crazy that in pure gameplay, Warframes are so much more powerful than Guardians, but lorewise, it would be the opposite. I mean, Antimatter Drop is so much more useful than Nova Bomb, and can be cast repeatedly as long as you have energy. Snow Globe is a better titan bubble. Golden Gun shoots concentrated sun bullets? That's cute, Wisp shoots actual rays from the Sun and Mesa's Peacemakers can drop entire rooms faster than GG's cast animation.
That's the thing, even in lore tenno are either equal or stronger. This guy skipped a LOT of lore
I had to pause in the first five minutes. The disclaimer for not using gameplay abilities and relying on lore and then specifically using Warframes as examples for not being invulnerable and listing no such limitation for Guardians tells me very clearly that you are biased in this. IE, immediately attempt to debuff Warframe and then proceed to list the godly powers of the Guardians. Then you proceed to largely ignore Wareframe's lore and seem to just go by which Warframe you think seem to be the most powerful by gameplay.
As for the rest of the video, I think the other comments have that covered.
Edit 1: Nullify all inconsistencies and grand them the powers they would logically have? Cool. Guardians keep dying in the gameplay and their powers seem weaker than the lore presents, therefore to be consistent and logical about how they haven't just won the world yet, their powers are not all that. Same with Warframe. But that wouldn't lead to a Destiny win.
Edit 2: To much of Warframe's lore is ambiguous, so the only way to say that Warframes would match or defeat Guardians is if you assume it? Never use an argument that can be flipped back around on you, because it means nothing. "To much of Warframe's lore is ambiguous, so the only way to say that the guardians would not get absolutely thrashed by the Warframes and Operators is if you assume it to be that way."
Woah I said BOTH are not immune BOTH😂 but people think that was solely for Warframe.
@@PenOfEvilYou do know that revenant exists and every single mod, every single arcane is canon to the lore btw
@@PenOfEvil dude, first of all i know is much hard but try to do your homework in warframe, everry mod, everry arcane are cannon, and even iff you wanna just skip that, are warframe have exisit in physical and conceptual like dagatah, savegoth, some other can control your mind. even some like garuda cant recive lethal damage, and the tenno he is nearly a reality warper, if you gonna do a 3 part video for advice, do the first one in one game the second in other and the third and final the fight, rn your video have alooot of issues lore wise in warframe, also some other warframe are half sentient and sentient can adapt really fast to all types of dmg, or have even void power, a power outside our reality, theen you need a fine tunning in your arguments lore wise
Tell me you know nothing about Warframe lore, without telling me you know nothing about Warframe lore
Thank you for watching 😁
Just bad takes all around. The problem with Guardians is the in lore characters you pointed out just had plot armor.
By that same idea Batman is stronger than the guardians.
Batman!?!?
@@PenOfEvilhe’s not wrong man. You seemed to have skimmed the lore massively especially since guardians are massively inconsistent.
Physically even Excalibur can go toe to toe with Raiden from Metal Gear. You know the dude that had a sword fight with mechs casually and tossed them around like toys with them being the size of the corpus orbs
The weakest warframe killing the entire d2 universe single handedly, ember can incinerated a whole planet frost can turn ea whole planet into a frost globe so yea their levels of power is pretty crazy. They can literally one man any raid boss we fought even the witness
@@TyToochill Where are you getting any of this from? Nothing about them, at least from the codex, implies either of them can do the things you stated, let alone fight a being that can reshape reality.
@@section4344 limbo can legit bend time and reality he's on of the most powerful frame to exist he can literally one man the d2 universe
Guardians are indeed killable but once you pop the ghost, bye bye. Kill the Warframe, the Tenno jumps out and cannot die and can simply revive their Warframe. The Drifter can just pound the ground and loop time until they get the outcome they want. Guardians are powerful, but the Tenno and their Warframes are built to take on battles larger than them.
Why you saying pop the ghost like a bullet can do it. 😂
@@PenOfEvil cause the void probably could
@@johntran4478 maybe but that doesnt mean it's easy, if it can then the tenno will die get folded if they leave a Warframe and they are not immune while shooting .
@@PenOfEvil That is literally what happens to Cayde.
You don’t just pop a ghost lol you need power from either the traveler or the veil to do that
nova is NOT the number 1 most powerful warframe 😭she was number 1 at launch. but warframes like harrow, limbo, dante, kullervo are so much more powerful
Nova can compete or destroy most of those frames. She's not worse or better, she's different.
@carolthepyro899 nova isn't the strongest.
@floppy3962 I didn't say she was the strongest, I said she was different. She's a highly versatile warframe, however.
@@carolthepyro899 I mean it’s canon with conclave that warframes themselves can even tank that. Meaning they can tank antimatter and the bs other warframes can throw at each other
@@IntrusiveThoughts838 I was talking about general gameplay in a squad setting, not PvP, which btw, NOBODY but a select few play. By that logic tho, in the simulacrum with friendly fire enabled, frames like atlas stomp the meta frames cause of that turning things into stone ability. see how this a slippery slope if bringing modes that aren't relevant in the discussion?
A Tenno can be a better Guardian but a Guardin can't keep up in being a Tenno 😂
Well this was done in bad faith considering it’s meant to be a power-scaling comparison and this Destiny glazer hasn’t even bothered to comprehend the lore for the sake of accuracy and the foundations of his argument
Bad faith no, you don't agree absolutely that's fine. My proof is there. If you want to ignore it I can do nothing about that.
Bro just says "we can't determine this or that" whenever Warframe has a ability that would obliterate d2
Like bro all the info is on Warframe wiki
I find that funny because even the people on the Warframe wiki say things like they don't know for certain. Your bias is ok though. I'm aware of mine and you should be aware of yours 🙏.
You brought no lore to the tenno end of this fight.
Also for a cheap shot, inaros destroyed an entire planet wide infestation outbreak with the wave of his arms. And he in virtually immortal and feeds on his foes.
Can guardians purge entire planets at will and self revive with their strength? Not the light, their own?
Inaros, sevagoth and nidus would like a word.
Plus on an additional note. Grendel could just eat the ghost and sit on the guardians. Entities eaten by him have they abilities or linked powers severed entirely while inside him. And can a guardian stop Grendel when their power is cut off and only have less then a minute before they are completely digested by the gluttonous wall of gristle?
Also Revenant. If yoyr doing only warframe abilities. Mesmer Skin. Plus if I he controls a guardian and their ghost he can't Reave and 100$ execute them both in and instant while remaining completely untouched. Hell even nyx can just ignore all they can do with her absorb/assimilate ability. And what happens when all that damage comes right back? Goodbye.
Plus on a more wild note, who's to say that a guardian could even physically take the beat down atlas can bring? They can't hurt him while he's punching and that boi can crack planetoids with his bare fists! What good is a petrified ghost?!
I have played both games and the guardians have no chance against entities that require the very void to destroy! How will they halt the March of void angels? Of the thrax? How can they stop alad V of all people? He survived being infested and was able to rebuild and reuse warframes for his zanuka and succeeded! If alad v got a hold of a ghost he would easily find a way to crack their tech and learn to counter it. He could create a zanuka to rival the ghosts and guardians given time and resources. And when all else fails....can they survive the Jade Light that kills any and everything no matter how strong so long as it has a physical form.
This is not a tenno lore video 😂 of course I did mention it but I'm not gonna unpack that in a video that isn't solely about them.
@@PenOfEvilthen don't call the fight without bringing equal measure to each end.
Lore Is required to justify the narrative fight.
If you cannot bring the lore to bare on both ends, don't enter the ring.
Bais is bais.
Regardless the guardians can't stop hungry boi Grendel when he wants lunch.
As I said in the community post as a warframe fan and non destiny player from what I understand about the power levels of destiny lore wise there was a book that just flat out stated every guardian to be universal level or something along those lines, I don't know what the book fully says but with my knowledge it very much comes across as an "infinity plus 1" moment that isn't well portrayed in Destiny's gameplay whilst Warframes quicker pace better portrays their lore strength if that makes sense.
That's my biggest problem with the lore of Destiny, the guardians seem to be more around the level of normal people gameplay-wise than not, but in lore they're gods. It genuinely makes me feel like either the lore is pure lip service, or the guardians are the single most incompetent faction in scifi/fantasy. As written, they shouldn't lose to anything, then get bodied by so much.
Word lore accurate guardians are demigods, gameplay guardians appear to be in just soldiers with powers 😂
@@ShimattaZ Again not a destiny lore person, but pen bringing up the Cabal at the end comes across a bit iffy when I've seen what was an explicitly powerless guardian specifically Zavala run straight towards a cabal and just grab their gun and turn it on them in the destiny 2 campaign.
@@PenOfEvil Aye its annoying, "the vex time travel when they see an enemy", expect they don't etc etc
@@Maxdamage_rulz i agree it does lol but those fat bums got technology strong enough to blow up planets and darkness enhanced versions that have the same powers as the guardians to an extent
As if these 2 would not become loot goblin murder hobos together.
😂😭😭 accurate
I have have played both games and and familiar with lore of both and I don’t think there’s an outcome where guardians win. Yes guardians are strong, but warframes, their arsenal, and the Tenno are OP, that’s kinda the point. Also the confines of which you scaled each side off of was pretty wack, you basically stripped half the shit of warframe and then gave destiny everything. Give each side everything and at max power and then make a video. Don’t exclude anything.
Making this video was a weird way to admit you understand very little of warframe and its lore.
As a month 1 Destiny 1 player, and a mf who has played warframe since year 2. Warframe takes this.
Wait limbo in lore could just banish them then he'd be literal god and just erase them
Not at all my friend Limbo is not omnipotent I certainly think he'd kill a few guardians though, but not enough to matter.
@PenOfEvil have you even seen the lore the moment they enter his pocket world they are powerless he can do whatever he wants in the pocket world in lore
@@danjan4941heard about the dreaming city? They defy all logic even in other lower dimensions (like how a 2d drawing can draw itself and isn’t bound by the artist) how you expect them to obey his rules?
Guardians have been in other peoples dimensions before idk if you’ve heard of throne worlds but they are pocket dimensions created by gods and the guardian does whatever inside them
@@Grassdia the problem is that you can't enter the rift (limbo's dimensions) without his permission. And you can't do anything in the rift if limbo doesn't want you to. It's in his name, you are in a limbo, you can't move you can't speak, you can only observe
The indifference vs The Witness? Who wins?
Prolly the indifference he might be stronger
It's an interesting debate. The witness and indifference are largely mysterious, but the man in the wall is a different beast. It isn't constrained by the laws of time or space, but neither is the witness, I think it would honestly go down as the strangest match of chess the universe has ever seen
Wally is capable of of copying and toying with the witness. Since the witness is an amalgamation of their entire race in one being, they have emotions and Wally loves messing with emotions. This would be a battle between a dimensional God vs a Godlike being.
I'm not sure who would win, but I'd believe that the witness would have a very hard time.
@@ReviewersGuildArSR ok to expound on this, based on new information and context from the latest quest, Wally can not only copy another person, but he can actually possess and gradually take over that person's very being. He's essentially a sentient cogneto-hazard. Worse, he only needs a foot in the door to start causing hell and that takes literally only 1 person to accomplish. It's also of note that the only thing allowing the tenno to contest him is that the drifter is a pure paradox where instead of what should have been a version with and a version without his gifted powers, the drifter acquired them due to a whole lot of Ballas messing up the script for everyone.
The truly scary thing though is that Wally is kind the polar opposite of the witness, while at the same time the witness is kind of Wally's wet dream of a fascination. So logically what you'd get in a vs is Wally meeting the witness, then proceeding to utterly break all concept of cause and effect, trapping the witness in an endless cycle of psychological torment as each and every entity within them is driven into a raving homicidal lunatic.
TLDR: it would go very, VERY poorly for the witness cause the base laws of paracausality that the Traveler and Winnower are working with are also the things Wally plays with like playdough for fun, putting him on their tier of entity.
@@rexex345 yeah... Wally would be the witness worst nightmare.
all it takes is a Grendel or a Rhino
hell, a base Nullifier Bubble and an Ambulas should do the trick
This whole thing is stupid and i disagree I think youve overestimated the gardians. And warframe lore is a mess and largly coveted so i dont blame you for underestimating the tenno and warframes. Hear me out. Some of the more impressive feats done by the gardians were not done with raw power, but but by putting the enemy into a temporarily weakend state. Exp when fighting oryx you would do counter rituals.
These universis are just not on the same scale. In destiny you fight wanna be gods. Figures that have gained enough power they believe that they are gods just from not having anything eles to compare themselves to. But you compare any of these to the indiference, the man behind the wall. If it envelops you in the void you are in its reality where it makes all the rules. Fighting it is like fighting the rain the only thing we've been able to do is restrain its influence. This is the opponent for the tenno because anything less would be a cake walk.
People want to compare these game with each other but you can't they are just not in the same ball park. Both universis re scaled compleatly differenlty based of the player charator. Destinys gardians are able to find a way dispite the odds to find victory in the darkest places and its what makes gardians so great. The tenno are wannabe gods. Beings of pure void energy. Warframe is a power fantasy game where the lore reflects how strong you feel in the game.
Holy molly im really getting into this
This sounds stupid because it is. The tenno are immortal in the same way you cant destroy energy. When the oporator "dies" he actually just kinda disipates because thats what he thinks would happen if he died. Continue on. The story Kinda flip flops over to the drifter. he does some stuff and pulls the oporators consioness into his timeline. They chat for a sec (the drifter and the oporator are the same person from different timelines based of eternalism) They then take every possibility of the oporator and difter in all the time lines and conjoin all that power into one. This is important because the tenno boost the power of whatever warframe they are in. The atlas feat was done by a warframe and tenno from the old war. They are basically powerless when you compare them to the player charactor now. They had no real idea of the extent of their power and were heavily restricted by the orokin. When compaired to the player they're basically just a means to controle the beast that is a warframe
Do you see how stupid this whole thing is. Warframe lore is an awefully writen fan fic that makes zero sense at times.
I will try and answer questions as best i can
love the fan fic part because its so true, yet I still love warframe lore for some reason xD
Their is also another theory that when the tenno convergeged all his timelines he coverged all the timelines making only one. Then went back in time and changed events so an entire faction will never come to power. If this is true i think the player tenno sits firmly in god territory. Not just a wanna be god
@@D9E2E1P2 well technically it would be two, I guess? The Drifter is the only other remaining Operator timeline, but they are stuck in the void and can inly switch places with the operator (and appearently be in the same together as of 1999) so I guess it could be true, but it's kinda reaching.
Tho tbf considering the rest of warframes crazy lore this wouldn't surprise me lmao
@@cgyue right its kinda all over the place cuz you can play as the operator or drifter when texting the hex. But the jade shadows quest heavily implies the drifter isnt there. It'll even switch if you were playing as drifter
The thing that feels best... if you accept it. Is when they conjoined only the drifter and operators consciousness survived. Its also weird cuz they dont have phisical forms they just feel more comfortable meterializing one
@@D9E2E1P2 yeah its weird
I would like to point out, putting immunity to everything off the table seems to be another way to tip the scale towards destiny considering not only do multiple frames have a No i dont die/even take damage ability the Tenno themselves can completely phase out of existence in a way that makes them immune to everything as well. I dont think the Guardians have anything remotely like that but i could be wrong.
They also have Ults make them immune but I took that away from guardians too because immunity is a game mechanic.
@@PenOfEvil No Dude, give them both everything max power! Warframe Hands down winner!
@PenOfEvil warframes have them as passive abilities as well as regular and their ultimate. Also in warframe all the frames abilities are Canon. Not just game mechanics
I’m glad that we all can consecutively agree that warframes play and feel how destiny’s lore reads
Facts 😂
Exactly that's why a lot of people say the Warframes beat the guardians
14:20 Aoi (Mag's Protoframe counterpart) can be seen in Hollvania Central Mall bending metal like it's liquid
People forget atlas shattered an asteroid with his bare hands
Spoilers ahead
A lore accurate operator abilitiy is just disrupting time and space or drifter just reseting time and many more
Second of all
Every single mod, arcane,shards, buffs etc that you get and deal like -2.14 billion dmg (breaking the integer limit in a game where it panics) is all canon in lore as well.
Holy glaze, bro limbo is just enough for the verse tbh 😭 lore and gameplay wise
How you gonna accuse me of glazing and then do the same thing 😂 if I am a glazer so are you. We are in this together😭🙏
@@Nappyheaded_sebby nah there is NO way you said holy glaze as the first thing out of your statement then proceeded to glaze tf outta limbo
@@isaiahgarnes9801yall call anything glaze I said one thing, and it’s a fact if you truly know what limbo himself is basically a god in his rift, but I haven’t even touched on what could the Tenno/drifter could do to the guardians 😭🙏🏽
The Witness is not the founder of darkness, Titan isn't a moon of Jupiter and Ikora uses blink and transmats which aren't exactly teleportation powers.
Atheon's portion is in-universe speculation from other characters. Officially we don't know his role in the vault, just that all of his powers worked only inside the vault of glass itself and (presumably) the vex network.
Saturn my bad. If it was speculation from people then I would agree but speculation from characters in the game allude to truth most of the time. Thank you for the corrections though, I do not know too much about destiny lore 🙏
@@PenOfEvil Tenno were speculated to be demons from the void, warframes were just empty shells and the technocyte virus was not supposed to be able to assimilate everything, but yet here we are
@@PenOfEvil In Destiny speculation from characters doesn't always allude to truth because truth is a funny thing. We have lorebooks about Calus written from his or his subbordonate's perspective about things that never happened, stories from Destiny 1 like Shin Malphur's not being what they seem later on in Destiny 2, the entire backstory of The Witness being mixed up with that of The Winnower for years until the very last moments of The Final Shape, Truth to Power in general etc.
Basically anything that the characters themselves are speculating about is put there specifically to allow them to change it later if they wanted. Saint-14 being speculated to be the real deal until he wasn't in episode Echoes is another example of that.
This matchup is quite interesting, perhaps you would be interested in making a longer deep dive into this? I feel as there are quite a few missing context in both the guardian's side and on the warframe/tenno's side which would probably effect the outcome.
This seems bias
I mean, "No gameplay" is so stupid considering that almost all the warframes have no lore based abilities, and if you take their abilties as in what the description states, theres at minimum 1 frames that turns entirely immortal as part of their abilties, with lots of other frames having abilities that simply prevent all damage and frames that have abilities that kill no matter what, like saryn which spreads a virus that spreads and kills anything, and the only thing that prevents it from spreading across the universe is that it keeps getting more fatal until everything afflicted dies before it can spread further
Then theres the fact that the tenno beat immortal beings like void angels, liches and sisters of pavos like its a regular tuesday
Better yet, he say 'no gameplay' then proceeds to use gameplay to discredit warframes.
"gameplay holds no bounds unless it has to"
@@PenOfEvil In other words, if Warframe's lore is too powerful, use gameplay instead. Everyone saw through that.
@PenOfEvil stop with the bad faith dude. Own up to your poorly made video. It was an absolute trash take.
@@Otterton88 Exactly! bravo!
After reading some of the more comprehensive comments that provide counterpoints, i have to agree that it doesn't seem like you understand the lore and feats of Warframe very well. Especially when it comes to anything involving the Void or Transference. Im not even sure you did your due diligence with studying all the warframes, because you never even considered Harrow's feat of holding back the single strongest entity and deity of the warframe universe.
Instead, you pick mag, again. And... Grendel?
I've enjoyed your videos, but do your due diligence on the next warframe related one.
Wasn’t it also stated Grendel could eat anything so couldn’t he just eat a ghost or guardian and digest them?
@zhongli5689 I'm not as studied on individual warframes as i am the big picture of the tenno and setting, so i couldn't say, but if that's confirmed, that is very funny and very true.
lorewise the guardians cant kill the tenno, and the tenno are the only characters who can kill the guardians
Guardians can quite literally snap things out of reality let alone kill it.
I’m not gonna lie to you bro I respect ya love for warframe I love it too but ya glazing, just a bit
@isaiahgarnes9801 I'm not, for some reason in his video he mentioned zero of the tennos abilities or hax.
@@PenOfEvil yeah, that won't effect the tenno
@@PenOfEvil listen to albrecht entrati's recordings in deimos. He describes how the tennos immortality works
Guardians could only possibly win in strictly lore. But you ignore the lore regarding warframes Because it's not shown in game. Guess what guardians can't run on walls. Sprint while reloading. Or kill hundreds of enemies a minute. And you refuse to really acknowledge that
Yes a guardian can, just use armor and weapons that can do that.
@donik4551 so can a guardian turn all lifeform on a planet into sand ? cuz inaros did that and lore wise this is why there is sand on mars
@@drep8840 No, and a guardian is not based on that. And warframe is far more complex, cause every frame has a different abillity. And guardians are just different. And a guaridan dosent want that to do. Still you can kill easy inaros with for example weaken effect, severed and song of flame with neocrotics and stareaters. Use movement with mountaintop and kill with choir of one from hip.
@donik4551 i was talking about the tenno they are not human not annymore basically (message at the wrong place)
@@drep8840 but they are still one part of a human race
just wow... didn't think I would see somthing so poorly researched today. Don't bother answering to this with the obligatory "why don't you give critics or reasons", the comment section is full of those, you just seem to ignore them.
If you are saying that you watched the entire video and you still think it is poorly researched then you are completely correct there's nothing I can do about that 😂
@@PenOfEviljust noticed I've watched some of your other Videos, I liked those, but this is one really is quite rough man
bruh Warframe can rizz the npc, Guardian can't
Its not even a challenge😂
😂
Did you even do research?
No
Thanks to eternalism there is a universe where the Guardians win, and a universe where the Tenno win. The Tenno will simply be assigned to the one where they win.
NOW THAT IS A GOOD REPLY
Drifter would also just make a timeloop and farm the Guardians for Drops.
I think you just need to stop talking about Warframe if you're not gonna actually do due diligence and research properly, my guy.
Lots of folks gave lots of reasons across these videos why you're downplaying Warframe and you continue to do so, looking down on Warframe like it's gum under your shoe.
Gum under my shoe is crazy 😂 I gave proof of everything I've done, played and researched and it wasn't enough. What's next you want me to make a video with 30 mins of just Warframe lore, no not happening. Pandering is something I won't do. People hear the verdict and react, it has nothing to do with research.
@@PenOfEvil This video is pandering, stop lying to yourself.
@@PenOfEvil so says the Panderer of D2! ROFL!
Been playing Destiny and Warframe both for around or over 10 years. Guardians are strong without a doubt, but the Tenno could literally do things like down a Guardian, then use transference to possess the Ghost. Also, could potentially do it with Exo’s, meaning the Tenno could use a robot Guardian the same as a Warframe. Could probably do it to the Vex too.
They can shift back and forth between void and physical form at will and negate all damage, can chain teleport. The Tenno/Drfiter cant even die if they wanted to. The Tenno/Operator just goes back to void form, and then can immediately become physical again, so instant revival, and with Drifter (alt timeline version of the Tenno) has the ability to rewind time upon his death. The Guardian could try to kill them, but time would be reset and would be stuck in that fight until they ultimately lose.
My Warlock is OP af, but my Tenno and any of the Warframes would destroy my Warlock.
The weapons and frames alone with the mod system, not including pets/companions, gear (necromechs, motorcycles, space battle ships, arch wings, hoverboards).
D2 was my favorite game for a long time, but 2 Tenno could take on a whole platoon of Guardians. There’s literally no way to kill them. Think of the Void like a Hive Throne World. Except even if you kill the Tenno there, they still come back.
The one downfall is The Guardians absolutely needing their ghost. And with the Tenno/Drifter doing their version of Void damage (what could be considered a paracausal damage), they just need one good shot with their Amp, and the Guardian is cooked.
There are so many reasons Guardians would lose. A Tenno’s Glaive is literally an infinitely reusable nova bomb of any damage and element(s) that can also slice through the Guardian, and that explosion from the glaive may even take out the Ghost at the same time. If a Phlanx Shield can one tap a guardian, they have no shot against Tenno and Warframes
I think it would have made more sense to compare the Guardians to Tenno themselves, not their Warframes. Warframes are just tools, which you can think of like weapons, which they also use. The Tenno have classes like the Guardians (known as "schools") and manipulate the Void, much like Guardians with their Light and Dark. Personally I think the real purpose of comparison videos like this is to bring two fandoms together and show off some of the coolest parts of each but I think you've missed some of the best ones from the Warframe universe.
. . . did you not even mention the tenno's abilities? only the warframes?
I mentioned in the video to watch my other videos otherwise this video wouldn't be a reasonable length. It was taken into consideration though. Also I can't answer you if you comment 9 different times. I'd love to talk though 😁
@PenOfEvil how can we talk? The issue is it seems like you disregarded alot of the questlines. Saying nova is the strongest warframe, when harrows chains are able to restrain the man in the wall who is the sauce of harrows powers and can erase infinite universes from a single handshake.
@@PenOfEvil This is not bad criticism. but instead of expalin just about destiny for 10 minutes. you should go between the two subjects. to making more interactive with the viewer. but good video, bro. keep going.
@@floppy3962 that's a theory as it is quite literally never explained though I hope you understand that I cannot fully explain the tenno's theoretical power as that would take the whole. And as much as I love theory I cannot include theories as a part of capabilities. The tenno's abilities weren't mentioned because from what we know they can do its not enough for this battle. They have many hacks they have nothing that the guardians haven't seen. We are talking about damn near demigods that have committed deicide several times 😂. I can't reason that the tenno could do that. Mind you I played and watched everything there is in Warframe and I've covered it on this channel as well so there is my proof. So I don't know what you can tell me about tenno that will change the verdict even in the slightest. I'd say this is not a close fight but bruh this isn't a fight at all. The guardians annihilate Warframes and everything in their universe before breakfast the next morning 😂. Immortality, that's it?
@@TheManWhoSoldThe-World they have a second part the last 9 mins are about Warframes and all the counterarguments I know of
Destiny glazer
If the Warframes win would that change anything or am I just doomed 😂
Warframes CANNOT die. There are also infinite Tenno in one universe as all timelines were merged in lore by the Man In The Wall. Tenno can teleport from Earth to the Zariman which is on the outer edges of the galaxy. Prime Warframes which you conveniently forgot are indestructible and always present. You also missed out Nidus, who can control Infested and therefore the Zealoid Prelate which is immortal if they don’t have Arlo’s Flame (which they don’t) so they literally CANNOT kill it. You also missed out on the abilities of Nekros such as Soul Punch, where he literally removes your soul from your body. You ALSO missed out Nyx whose entire kit is centred around mind control and she can control multiple people at once. You ALSO missed out Jade who can just straight up kill people with the Jade Light and that turns them into glass that they can’t be saved from. Same with Revenant who also has mass mind control and an all immune ability (1 + 2) . You also missed out everything about Archwings and Necramechs which the Tenno have. Protea can just rewind time. Loki can teleport and literally just disable all Guardian weapons. Harrow can absorb all damage. Khora can create a “Strangledome” that forces other enemies to kill enemies caught. Frost can deep freeze any moisture and Vapor which would immobilise guardians as they still need to breathe and have blood, as well as it being invulnerable. He can also instantly freeze any enemies in an 8m radius. Inaros is just immortal. Mesa can reflect all bullets and also store damage dealt to her by guns and then fire it back in one bullet. Titania can force enemies to go to a targeted enemy and then they explode. I could go on but I have other things to do.
ok I can't hear anything because background music BEAT is too loud on my speakers
so I dive into the comments and these are pure gold 😁👍
I always thought that D2 Guardians are more powerful than Frames, but less powerful than Tenno. And I don't have an issue with that as an ex-D2 player who enjoys Warframe Lore.
Damn I apologize I'll try And dampen the bass some more 😂
I understand that you put a lot if effort into making this video but one little thing I'd like to add is that limbo only failed that calculation because he was attempting to do something similar to a void jump which caused issues as the rift isn't as flexible as the void
Or at least that's what I understood from the little lore de gave us on the top hat man
I say both, both have entropic powers (therefore both must be paracausal) both can kill each other (Guardian vs, the any and/or all Warframes) BUT not against the Operator since if they die in anyway shape or form The Void will just recreate them again forever while Guardians are just tied to their Ghosts
Now for The Witness vs. The Indifference:
The Witness believed that causality is the cause of all suffering and wishes it to be stopped through "The Final Shape"
The Indifference is the COMPLETE opposite and contradictory to that belief for The Void is itself chaos and entropy
The Witness with the Light and Dark CAN absolutely reshape the Void in it's entirety, but without the Light, the indifference probably fight against it
Heres the thing, Ive had this debate before, and I can't say for sure which would win, but I still firmly believe that it would not be an easy fight for either side. Problem is, I dont think a lot of people really understand how powerful a gaurdian really is, and how the elements they wield isnt as simple as fire, ice, lightning, weird goopy stuff, but building blocks that make up reality. I think that warframe does a lot better however of conveying just how powerful the things you're playing as are.
It definitely does, I feel way stronger in Warframe
Ikr I understand the general audience is biased to warframe but as far as I know none of them have read the unveiling and don’t know who the winnower is or how the guardian doesn’t just use the light but also the dark and could probably in theory, manifest nightmares similar to the the indifference since they know how to use darkness abilities.
@@Grassdia yea everyone is biased here I tried my best though 😂😭 I promise I def know more about Warframe than destiny though
@@PenOfEvil yeah it’s kinda hard to really compare them imo since they both rely on the void and the light to use their abilities and both light and void are seemingly infinite according to the lore.
@@PenOfEvil man it really didnt seem like that from the video. besides you're questionable choices for most powerful frames you seem to have misunderstood what happened when Ballas stabbed us, you know when he explicitly mentioned he couldn't kill us but could send us back to hell? Using that as a reference for how long it takes a tenno to come back from death is ridiculous. Especially when as admittedly revealed recently the drifter themselves doesn't believe themselves capable of dying and even can go so far as to say death as a concept doesnt make sense to be applied to them. Numerous feats of frames or the operator are completely ignored while destiny gets all of its special subclasses mentioned and explained just how powerful they are. Nevermind the fact that killing a Void Angel involves collapsing the dimensional orbs it uses to protect itself. Which is done as the operator themselves not the frames.
Guardians need time to recharge their weak abilities. Meanwhile warframes going ham with almost infinite ability spam that can nuke an entire encounter from a destiny raid or amplify their weapon damage and crits to solo kill caretaker
How are you not gonna mention the Tenos abilities. smh
They can shoot a void beam in different ways and teleport and go intangible for a short period of time. It makes no difference in the end. Unless you got something else in mind?
@@PenOfEvilthe drifters ability to alter time? Rewind it
There ability to take over constructs necromechs oro worms
They can go into people's minds but they gotta grab you
At one point the drifter created a dimension within the void granted they got stuck and completely forgot what was going on being trapped in there own loop only remembering after taking back the throne then resetting time
They use void speak to kill immortals permanently or force them to submit
But last thing if would be them being connected to the void being completely immortal
@@PenOfEvil brother, you said in the first SECONDS of the video that this is not a gameplay fight, don't make videos like this if you have no idea about the lore of one of the two games
@@cgyue watch the whole video I promise what needs to be addressed is addressed aside from that I'm not going to explain theory to everyone because that isn't lore. If the lore doesn't say then it doesn't exist 😂
@@PenOfEvil Not theories though lmao
This is actually a well-made video, and I appreciate you listening to the criticism and complaints about the last debate you did and doing more research on the matter and addressing them.
You -main- made a strong case and argument and most of the things you said I don't think we can logically debate against.
Theres a few things that could be debatable, but otherwise you made a strong Irrefutable argument for most of your statement.
There are a few things that I would like to add, not as an argument, but just as an extra thought or note.
I think few more warframes could have been used as examples for "the strongest" such as harrow who held back The Indifference for eons, but this could easily be due to Rell as well or Xaku who uses pure raw void energy and can 25-75% to straight up phase through damage and can steal and replicate weapons, or even Revenant who is stated to violate causality and seems to be one of the less logical frames along with Xaku.
I also would like to add that I agree that most the enemies that the Tenno fight aren't as strong as the guardian's, but if we were to place the Tenno's foes into destiny or have them face the Guardians, I don't think they would win, but I feel like they could cause trouble with their Eximus units due to their Overguard (making them temporally immune to the light and crowd control) and their eximus abilities and Kuva Liches and Sister tier foes. I'd argue even the sentients would be able to adapt to most guardian abilities that aren't pure paracasual or pure light/darkness.
Also, I don't know if energy base attacks can actually hit limbo in the rift or if that's merely gameplay, same with warframe abilities being capable of hitting foes while they're in the rift, which kinds of contradicts the (you can't touch things in a separate plane as you) rule of the rift, but I'm willing to assume both are equally true or false. I also thought the reason limbo died was not because he went into the rift, but because he used it to teleport across the system, which is why a miscalculation killed him. Which he could theoretically be do to a guardian. using the rift to teleport them and purposely messing up the miscalculation o scatter them across time, dimensions, and space.
As I've seen in another comment, you didn't mention the Tenno Operator or focus abilities. Even though I doubt it would impact the outcome much it would have been a nice mention. Also, one more thing, most people don't really consider the skill of the Tenno and rarely take it into account. I know the Guardians have more experience and have showed to be competent combatants; however, I generally think the Tenno are simply more skilled in martial prowess and possibly marksmanship Aswell considering how they have a wide broad of strange and differing melee and range weapons and can master them multiple times over. Also consider how the Tenno have multiple stances for different melee weapon, and just like Teshin I feel they are capable of switching on the spot like he is, yet it's not a gameplay feature so it's nothing more than a mere speculation that is supported by the Tenno's track record of being extremely skilled.
With a large power gap, skill and martial art abilities might not mean to much, but it's something to take into consideration.
I greatly appreciate it, things I didn't mention were solely to preserve time. I did take it into consideration. So much speculation is littered in the Warframe community that many take speculation as fact although it's never stated by the game itself only assumed to be so. It's impossible to be truthful about this versus battle and not poke a beehive 😂
All it takes is a nova for to solo anything just from the antimatter abilities, which she can control.
Thank you for watching 😁
You know, wouldnt it be funny if a Destiny glazer were to debate an Warframe glazer to see how the conversation would go and if there even would be an conclusion?
That's an interesting debate
first sorry in advance for the spelling mistakes english is not my native language.
i don't know enough about the destiny universe to describe to visualize their power but i know that they face the equivalent of divinity, which seems to them to be divine beings (if it can be killed it is not divine)
i also know that a very small number of guardians are really capable of the actions described, yes they all have access to these different classes (i don't know if they can change class), but that doesn't change the fact that only a small percentage of guardians are really powerful and not just soldiers dying in chains to try to stem their inevitable end.
i'm not going to argue about destiny further because you seem to know much more about it.
as for warframe, i think i saw a comment that indicates it but warframes are literally warheads on legs.
Atlas can destroy a meteor with the strength of his fists alone.
Inaros covered an entire planet in a sandstorm (a single warframe).
as far as we know Kumei can see an incalculable number of futures and choose the best one.
Limbo can travel in a dimension between reality and the void and pop up where and when he wants.
etc... I'm not going to list the 50+ warframes.
I know that the guardians can come back to life thanks to their specter and that these specters can be killed (I think it was a bullet of void or darkness for Cade 6)
small point the Tenno (operator, the warframes are only mobile weapon platforms) use the void and can kill entities that like them should not be able to die.
Xaku (the warframe) uses the Void and powers all the weapons he steals (yes, steals with the power of the void in addition to their previous ability, so yes, every time a guardian dies and their specter appears to resurrect them, a single bullet from the Void will be enough to destroy them.
in a fight between 2 opponents with centuries of experience and the ability to come back to life, the one who can come back most often, quickly and with certainty is the one who will win, the guardians have no security on their resurrection, even in their own universe.
not to mention the fact that the traveler can just go back in time to inform all the Tenno of their opponent and this in a loop.
I would say that very quickly the fight would be of we do not know how many Tenno, the time never specifies (but I would say given the size of the Zariman max 1000) and the remaining 1% of the Guardians who are really capable of the actions described in the video
and yes invincibility is real in the story, Valkyr becomes totally invincible during her ultimate
its kinda unfair to compare the Tenno to any other universe.
The Tenni are literally immortal and can posses any one anything, so they could take controll over a Guardians body.
also my limited knowledge of Destiny tells me the Guardians are the good guys. So if that would happen, im pritty sure the Tenno and Guardians would team up and never fight each other.
Can you imagine, a guardian paired with an immortal healer Tenno?
As much as you overall understand Warframe lore you really underestimate warframes
Where are the defense for the warframes bro been glazing the guardians to say that destiny's enemies are all stronger than Warframe enemies is crazy void angels sentience fragmented one infestation kuva lich that's crazy man 😂 sounds like someone's painting a narrative sucks to see he's one of my favorites every Warframe player knows part of the gameplay is part of lore the helmeth system in lore says able to use a warframe's abilities in the game it disintegrates a full-fledged Warframe and now you have whatever ability that Warframe had it's just common sense just because they didn't say that it takes all of the Warframe powers it doesn't mean it ain't Canon as that's what the infested do😅 gameplay wise there needs to be a balance today lore wise there's no limit the evidence you've put was weak for the warframes strong for the guardians and that's what I call painting a narrative also that is the only guardian speed feet the infinite Forest you're probably one other the one thing about the infinite force is that it's a simulation and everyone knows the tax cannot create simulations exactly like the real world there's always a flaw so that can't really be used pcausality is just another way to say magic and the vax can't simulate that pretty pcausality so it mess with it but hi 👍🏿
You can tell you did the bare amount of research when it comes to Warframes. Some of the deeper lore is pretty well hidden. But that doesn't excuse the ignorance when making a video like this. You did Warframes dirty. You did the Tenno dirty. Tenoo literally can not die, reality rewrites itself to make that not happen and not some year long wait, it is instant. Do better.
My goal is not to make a Warframe video then the opposite would happen. If Warframes won it doesn't matter what I said. Literally when the infested won against the tyranids no one bats an eye. I'm not gonna add 15 more minutes of conjecture to prove what I already know. I appreciate all of you and always will.
@@PenOfEvil You know nothing, Jon snow.
You argument was trash, your video was trash, do better. Even Destiny players like myself know that Warframe would win hands down. Get real, kid.
Warframes and Guardians might be close, but guardians would lose to the Vessels, since they are Kaiju-sized warframes.
I have no idea what those things can even do other than be large and mysterious 😂
@@PenOfEvil considering the average warframe is already a powerhouse, it's easy to assume that the vessels, made to specifically fight the indifference, might be even more cracked than the average warframe.
Gameplay-wise, I believe Warframes would win, but lore-wise, Guardians are seemingly gods, though you’d never guess that just from playing the game
Well yes but they're also proven to be mortal once fully cut off from the traveler. So per say limbo, who can literally just casually send people to and from a pocket universe he has full domain over, could simply send them and/or their ghost and cripple them. As it's not gameplay they wouldn't be visible anymore to anyone but limbo. Aside from that guardians do have an edge against the frames mostly if they're strong in light. Mainly just the player guardian would be problematic however not all are as strong in paracausal forces. So send limbo against those with the strongest connection into a meer mortal killing both the ghost and them in the separate lightless realm and then send nova and a few other Warframs that are obscenely powerful to wipe out as many ghosts and guardians as they can
"guardians are basically gods" up until a tenno pops a cap in the ghost. warframes and tenno, guardians can not kill them. so a tenno and frame can simply walk to the guardian, they don't need to run. they die, eh, dump void energy into the frame and refresh it. guardians, while having a ghost can revive, tenno can just do that, only way to kill one is be one. gotta have that oro.
Paracausal powers defy the laws of reality so I have no reason to think it can’t trump Void powers of the Tenno. They can use Light and Darkness. Guardian can and have beaten stronger foes than themselves consistently.
Guardians can be kill and they die a lot, tennos...
@@acgearsandarms1343 tenno are also paracausal. And can casually zip through time. And possess things
mods are cannon in warframe lore
Hard disagree. Tenno revives are not tied to a bot that can get shot. Cayde 6 is all the evidence I need to know that they could never win an endless fight against the Tenno.
Cayde is a special case. His ghost was shot with a Weapon of Sorrow, which are Darkness infused weapons meant for killing Guardians. Ghosts are very durable, it took the Cabal doing an orbital bombardment on one to kill it. Now could the Tenno do that? More than likely, but it would still take a lot for them to kill a Ghost.
@@section4344 kill the ghost kill the guardian. basic
@@section4344go search vauban or one of many frames *cough cough* nova who can use null star and i think a literal null star is way stronger then orbital strike.
This man use lore for the guardians but gamplay for warframe 😂. I never seen a video so bias in a while. If you need to nerf the warframe to make to make them battle then the outcome is obvious.
How were they nerfed again?
Let’s start with not accounting for the mod system, overlooking weapons. Look man I play both and I like both, so watching a video of someone that claim to be unbiased and then doing this porqueria you made. Is a slap on the face for all Destiny and Warframe player. Get your facts straight and unbiased and come back again. If is still the same outcome is fine but at least do a better job in presenting the information.
Btw there not such thing as Warframe vs Guardians, is Tenno. The Frames are just a tool. Also the main antagonist is the man in the wall. Start with that. Good luck!
@@njrodz I won't 😂
Okay i agree with the comments even after watching the video, here my main complaints.
1. You talked alot about who the gaurdians have fought but nothing about the tenno and warframes. If we put the sentient into destiny everyone is dead except the very top tiers as sentients are canonically immune to any and all damage except the void which gaurdians dont have. Lets not even bring up the man in the wall because he would smoke everytbing in destiny alone, the void is only limited by imagination, and wally is an eldritch god like being that resides in it and uses it to violate everything. Wally in game is far weaker because one of the orokin cuts some fingers off, if not for that wally would be completely unbound by time, as the void also violates the time rules. The void is basically prismatic + paracasuality + time shenanigans of the vex which guardians dont have an answer to, considering just being in the void would drive them insane and turn them into void angels potentially or just make them rip themsleves apart. Lets not even mention that its cannon the reason we have crossplay was because of wally, hes just far supeior to the witness in every way
2. This video is compleltly off from the start when you dont use the tenno. Warframes are the weapon, tenno are the users. Just as The light is a weapon and gaurdians are the users. If you ask who would win, dude with a gun vs just a gun its blatently obvious who would win
3. Mods, forma,and sheild gating are cannon in warframe lore. Yes actual gameplay mechanics that can be abused to make you immortal are cannon, so i dont see how guardians would get past just sheild gating and mods like rolling guard.
4. I just disagree on the warframes you think are the strongest, rhino and revenant have ways to just be immune to any and all damage on top of sheild gating and those arent really what id consider the strongest.
The Tenno literally can Not Die; the Drifter can manipulate time, space, and matter. The Tenno and Drifter can Tranferrence into anyone or anything including The Guardian. The Drifter and Operator are the embodiment of Multiversal Order and Chaos.
EDIT: You didn't play the Chains of Harrow quest (this is lore not gameplay by the way). The Tenno Rell created his own "Throne Realm" and solo the The Man in the Wall, an entity who warps causality [A Level 0 being I might add] for fun, for milennia and held its influence at bay until our character Tenno came which drove Rell insane because of the PTSD from being around other Tenno. Come on now. Rell did this in a weakened state with one Warframe, no amp, or focus school to draw power from while mentally unstable. Imagine what our empowered Tenno, with all Focus disiplines, and an Sirroco Amp (all lore btw) could do.
Limbo vs Guardians.
Its GAME OVER
Yes if you ignore everything the guardians can do.
@PenOfEvil yes killing weak af "GODS" with their pulse riffles and revolvers.
Lol
The power Gap in Warframe is too big against guardians which they move just like human beings do if you ask me, guardians would get annihilated based off of their abilities And speed alone.
Bro sad that guardians kill Gods whit guns and dhen sad tha Warframes don't figth things as that ar strong enugh my man if a God can be killed whit guns why should't a Warframe be capeabel to kill it? Not to mention he strait up left the void Angels/Tharx enemys out that litteraly can only be killed by Void powers that only the tenno has
Amir literally tells you in chat that he can’t out run a bullet..
@@funmbi9876 amir and all of the hex are not fully capable. Aoi literally states she still doesn't have a handle on her powers. Amir can't dodge a bullet. Volt absolutely can.
@ thanks, I didn’t know this
Destiny Gods are p ss ies that can easily killed by Guardians with guns.
Exactly. This is my gripe with the Destiny lore.
That's a crazy statement 😂😂😂
I can confirm after all the raids and vespers host guardians are not invincible I’ve done thousands of garden runs and almost 100 plus clears in every raid and I’ve seen soooooo many wipes I’m Mr 20 in warframe and you don’t really see mission failed in that game bigggg difference and warframe is wayyyy harder and it’s fun
I've played Destiny since D1 beta and am very new to Warframe but even I know more than it seems you do mate, from just what I have read in game on Warframe I know their immortality is better than the guardians 😁
Now I finished your video I think you are a bit hard for the guardians mate.
Thank you for watching
"Paracausal. That word doesn't even exist." ¿%:?EXTR!UDE GUN
i hope he re does this video with doing his research on warframe lore not just the gameplay
I definitely won't redo this video BUT, I got you 🙏
ngl you should have spoken about the crucible first, it just makes the guardians seem less impressive compared to the tenno
This was a one-sided view when it came to the comparison of Warframe and Destiny. It sounds like you have very intimate knowledge of Destiny lore, but you don't know shit about Warframe lore at all. Your video was one dimensional at best. How is this a fair video ? When you don't know all the aspects and history of the Warframe universe ? Destiny only has three classes of characters, and Warframe has over fifty characters. Whatever abilities one Warframe don't have another will. I get it ... guardians have a network of abilities just between those three characters, which is impressive. But the tenno that control the Warframes are forever. If you're going to make a video, you might as well do it right. You have to cover all aspects of both game's lores. There's even abilities in Warframe that the guardians just don't possess.
Warframe is smoking the whole d2 universe even the weakest frame can do serious damage to the most powerful being in d2 thats how deep the frames power can go even the tenno can one man the witness no problem
call me crazy but I feel
if we use gameplay
Warframe wins handily (various abilities that are simply better than guardian ones (Volt's shield which not only buffs the damage, critical damage and is fully invuln (Also can be picked up & moved with) as a single example of many and this isn't even looking at stuff like Limbo (Hey you now must fight without your guns & projectile weapons), Nova (Can absorb various attacks into her antimatter and we all know how a super works on a non supered (or even a supered) guardian, and Nyx (Guardians, FF is enabled, you all look like the target you are after and this isn't looking at Chaos, Mind control, and defense strips(Know those shields, what if we Removed them.)
If we use lore
Tenno vs Guardians get more complex but considering a Tenno can just slam the ground in a "No, I do not accept this outcome" style manner setting up a infinite time loop (This ain't looking at lore like Atlas' whom punched a very large, rocket propelled meteor and shattered it to the edges of the system in a single punch)
In the end however, Eternalism.
Some side notes
1. Limbo only way to take damage in the rift is if you are on his side or use warframe abilities & the like (Energy weapons & such of that nature are ineffective,)
2. Protea kept up a time stasis of around a explosion if memory served
3. the diverse weaponry of destiny is fairly similar to each other, where warframe's tend to be more spicied (So a example you have stuff like the braton, than you have the Corinth, a buckshot shotgun + airburst grenade launcher, various flavors of craziness like arch guns (Stuff made to deal with space fighters), and incarnon weapons (my rifle now shoots a bouncy ball o explosive death)
4. to memory the rhino stomp is just a basic 360 aoe around him (old frame, still a good frame, his durability scales with his enemies)
6. Where did you get years? (Ballas literally sent us into the void, which Wally kept his end of the bargin & kept one of us alive in the universe at all times)
Nitpick
Phenmor starts as a semi rifle & evolves into a stronger version, not really a HMG in some ways
How is the drifters ability inconsistent and I feel like the second the guardians even get a percentage of a chance to actually kill the Tenno Wally would appear and kill them
So did you look up anything about warframe like you didn't talk about literally anything in warframe like the man in the wall is a god who gave us power or like you know everything we fight are weak because we are pretty a god in warframe and you didn't even talk about the tennos void powers
Destiny is writing fast and power full but Warframe is writte/ plays fast and powerful
Yea this guy definitely didn't do his research wth
This is similar to Goku vs Gojo
Research more warframe lore, destiny glazer.
🙏