Why Rick Warren Changed His Mind on Women Pastors | Doug Wilson
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Doug Wilson reacts to Rick Warren telling Russell Moore why he changed his mind on women pastors.
H/T to @WokePreacherClips for the clip.
Doug Reacts is an apologetics reaction series presented by Canon Press.
I'm not an exegete, but I can notice things. It's not long after a denomination starts ordaining women that the same denomination starts flying the rainbow flag.
Progressives talk about listening to the Spirit. Well, the Spirit has spoken over the past 4 or 5 decades and said female pastors are horrible for the church and for humanity.
Pattern!!
He did that years ago.
Yup!
Slippery slope fallacy?
“I didn’t bow to culture on this issue. That’s eisegesis.”
>proceeds to commit eisegesis
You beat me to this exact comment lol. He is literally ignoring every other scripture that sheds light on that passage.
He also bows to culture
He also came to this conclusion after decades of being a pastor, just in time to be accepted by the world on this issue, and not a moment too soon.
@@freshfishbowl Shouldn't he return a portion of his salary for all those years he preached without knowing what the Bible said?
Bryce Jeffcoat , Exactly because context matters. Warren is not rightly dividing The Word of God.
He literally built a career out of catering to culture lol
True!!
Yes, LITERALLY...😂
A career and a great mountain of earthly mammon. He's a verified, card-carrying lackey for the World Economic Forum (Klaus Shwab's Great Reset mafia family), and a personal favorite "neovange guru" of the Universalist Christ-denier, Oprah Winfrey. These are on the record, proven facts, not speculation nor slander.
There's an abundance of doctrinal red flags surrounding Rick Warren, and these are just a few.
💯
@Joshua By Rick's own words at the SBC Convention last year "I've trained more pastors than all of the SBC seminaries combined!" *Sigh*
“I changed when I came across 4 scriptures no one talks about.”
One of them: The Great Commission, one of the most preached passages in all of Scripture.
The great commission is about making disciples not pastoring. You can be a teacher without being a pastor. Discipling is teaching not pastoring.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:19-20 NIV)
FIGHTING FOR POSITIONS IS PRIDE. Paul had to quit all his positions in order to accomplish the will of God. Apostleship was his call not his position.
I mean its worth watching just to learn how NOT to read the Bible
sadly… so true
Yes.
Honestly
Sad indeed
He’s been so far off all along. He got fired from saddleback
Pastor Doug- It is sad to watch before our eyes both Russell and Rick continuing their rapid drift away from the truth they once held! Thanks for your help!
Book sales must be down.
“Tell me what the world is saying today, and I’ll tell you what the church will be saying in seven years.” - Francis Schaeffer
Wow. Spot on.
He ain't wrong.
*what weak churches
Just like the Republican Party!
@@terrifictomm I haven't voted in decades.
Doug’s laugh right after RW says culture didn’t change him was the only critique needed.
This is extremely sad! The times are closing in so fast the the falling away from the truth. We are all wrapped up in changing these crazy people. We just need to walk away from them and keep telling the real Word of truth. Thanks for the video Brother.
The issue is authority, not teaching or organizing. The plight to be avoided is women ruling over men by the very definition. You can see it in secular culture and see how that's working out?
Amen. You nailed it.
Amen.
Thats true. I've never heard that explanation. The gospel must be preached by women and men yes. The authority is for men. Simple.
There are so many female world leaders, Eric. They’re working out better than fine in countries as varied as Germany, NZ, Taiwan, UK, Norway, Singapore, Finland, Iceland and many more. Male rulers have presided over the decline and fall of almost every empire in history, haven’t they?
@@aallen5256 they aren’t working out well, friend. Half the ones you mentioned have been in the news prominently for blunders they’ve done. Merkel sold her country to refugees.
Men have also presides over the rising of every empire. There are other factors that influence the success of a nation. The gender of the leadership is just one of them.
I attended Saddleback for years until God moved me out of there as I began to mature and thirst for the word. So grateful I am not there. Covid, George Floyd and the feminist movement showed that Warren does, despite what he said early in this video, cater to culture all the time. Who else could throw a blacks only event like he did (after the George Floyd event) unless they catered to culture?
I cracked up at Doug Wilson's little chuckle after Warren said, "Culture could not change me on this issue." 😆
Suuureee....
Warren led a very large charge for many yrs., wrote many books, yet, he says, " I changed my mind because there are 4 scriptures that no one ever TOLD ME ABOUT." What? He never knew these 4 scriptures? C'mon, man!
I hope Rick adequately stretched before he performed that gymnastic act to reach that conclusion.
I got sprains just listening...
To the woman he said,
“Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
What does that mean
That's not a command. That was the curse.
Rick and Russel. What great examples of strong Orthodoxy 😮
hahahaha
🤣🤣
@John Sixfourteefour Where would Keller fit?
@John Sixfourteefour Yeah, Andy Stanley is a real disappointment! His "theology" is incredibly misguided. I can't help wonder what Charles Stanley thinks of his son's so called teaching. 😪☹️
Is orthoducksy another name for having all your ducks in a row?
Doug, You don't know what Rick Warren would eisegete into "a little child shall lead them." 😁
@John Sixfourteefour Nice!
I love the way you laughed after just one minute. “The culture could not change me”. Ha 😂
“Many will be deceived and fall away from the faith…”
Growing up Pentecostal we actually did have 10 year old preachers which is hilarious looking back on it now
There have been little boy preachers who were probably used by their parents to make money. But a ten year old could share their simple faith in a sermon. It wouldn't be theologically astute perhaps, but if he knows Jesus and is sincere he could be used by God. Wouldn't it be nice if ten year olds began giving Bible messages in Reformed churches? Good Sunday School training and encouragement can prepare all believers, whatever their age, to be ready to share, in season and out of season.
In an appropriate setting, I don't see a problem with this. My last church had a 9th grader leading a bible study with others his age. It worked fine.
@@chrisleannwynnministries6927 Yes, makes me think of Samuel
sounds crazy and not biblical so yep - an error in someones judgement/ discernment most likely, not sure I would think it funny if God is mocked as a result.
Very hilarious when I think about it now. Thought this only happened at my church
Rick is always fulfilling scripture😊
Like how?
A woman sharing the news of an empty tomb is one of those weak arguments I hear a lot.
@@bruce8961 "...fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock..." Acts 20:29
This is not the strongest argument for women in ministry. Actually Doug you slipped up and started mentioning them better than Rick. If women are prophesying, they’re speaking in church bro. So either Paul was contradicting himself (which I don’t believe) or the women in those specific churches were causing specific issues… not all women for all time. How about this: Why is Phoebe called “deaconess” when the word is always translated pastor for everyone else? Why was Priscilla involved in teaching Apollos (a man). These are biblical examples of how women were active in teaching/preaching situations that seem to contradict Paul- but again, it’s not contradiction, it’s showing us that we’ve misinterpreted Paul’s words bc we don’t have the full picture of the context. These are more compelling to me.
Amen brother!
Yes!!
Clearly they were speaking in church as they prophesied, but thats a reason Paul said that women (1 Cor. 14:34) should keep silent in the churches.
It is not contradicting to say that Priscilla was helping teach a man, but they also took him aside quietly to better explain. It was not an open air rebuke.
And there is nothing prohibited about a “deaconess” in the nt. They were common. Deacon/deaconess were and are servants of the church. Women having the ability to serve women in a way that is inappropriate for men. Deacons/deaconesses are not teachers.
so you believe that a woman can prophesy in the church, but not teach? And you see no potential connection between these things, for example you don't believe that a prophetic word could include instruction?@@criticalthinkingwjake
@SeanShineYouth thank you!! Blessings for studying the word more thorough!
First time I see Doug smiling. Rick Warren the guy that can make Doug smile. 😊
Doug laughs all the time on these... just watch more of them. He is jolly.
@@Golfinthefamily Jolly is a great word to describe Doug’s demeanor! Even more so after church on a Sunday morning!
Let me interpret the verse that helps me express the opinion I want to have to fit into the current culture and ignore the verses that explicitly forbid the things contained in the current culture that I want to fit in with.
Pretty much par for the course in modern churches.
Exactly! such hypocritical cherry-picking! Where are the modern churches preaching about shaving and marrying beautiful prisoners of war (Deuteronomy 21: 10-14)?! Or discussing how to settle an unsolved murder by washing villager's hands in the blood of a heifer?!
Rick is confusing a common call to evangelize and pray with specific offices in the church. The two are not the same.
Rick gaslighting like a true Dem
I think that pressure from other people did change his mind on this issue. All those in the church should be known to be co-laborers in the gospel. However, this does not mean that all co-laborers should be ordained or teach to the church. This is not a Great Commission issue - evangelism and missions should not be confused with pastoral ministry. Finally, being indwelt with the Holy Spirit is an all-believers feature, not an all-ordained issue (see Joel).
Did anyone else think the Rick Warren’s opening statement was him being a salesman, putting on his steel toed boots so his foot didn’t get crushed in the door? With that said this makes me so sad. I grew up in a Saddleback style church in So Cal and this one issue has caused so much division in my family. May their eyes be open to the truth!
2 Tim. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
In Matthew, it specifically says he was talking to the 11 disciples about the great commission.
It's so obvious he bowed to culture and then backed into scriptures to try and justify it, so he's also a liar.
How had he never considered these Scriptures on this? Has he never talked to people? These are commonly misused Scriptures in this debate. I'm glad culture could not change him, but it's convenient the change happened around the same time.
And where can I find this idea of ordination in the word of God?
I remember him being interviewed years ago by John Piper and talking about his respect for Jonathan Edwards and reformed theology. I also remember Rick calling pope Benedict "our pope" and refusing to stand for justification by faith alone. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Thanks from Finland.
Rick Warren's explanation sort of sounds like Steven Furtick.
Ahh, the old ‘my position is evolving’ lie
To quote John Macarthur to women that want to preach:
"Go Home"
Not MacArthur's most shining moment. Such remarks appeal to our base instinct to laugh at those with whom we disagree.
@@chrisleannwynnministries6927 One of my favorite MacArthur moments. It's almost as good as when Elijah told the Baal worshippers:
"Hey! Y'all ain't loud enough. Baal must be napping, or maybe he's travelling, or maybe he's taking a big dump. Y'all better pray louder to wake him up! Haha!"
@@the32712 But the Baal worshipers were not brethren of Elijah. Whether you like it or not, even if you have a problem with his theology, Rick Warren is your brother in Christ. (And Beth Moore and the other lady preachers are your sisters in Christ)
Can 10 year olds become Christians? Yes they can. My son became a Christian at 5 years old after I prayed with him. What I didn’t realise was that after he prayed he had the real experience of Gods presence which I did not realise until became an adult and he reminded me of that. But as a kid he was always smiling, quite joyful and happy. Teachers loved him, kids loved him. But I didn’t realise his happiness was the joy of the Lord until he grew up. I think as a kid he probably didn’t fully realise his experience until later.
Doug said 10 yo's could become Christians, too. He said they can't or shouldn't be ordained to preach.
Thank you. I'm glad you addressed this.
Wait, they made another Dumb and Dumber movie, this time with Russell Moore and Rick Warren? I had no idea. They should have made a sequel to the The Three Amigos instead, included Beth Moore and called it The Three Compromisers. 😂
That should totally be a show or movie on Loor!🤣
They are most definitely compromised, in more ways than one.
There's a difference between teaching unauthoritatively and teaching authoritatively.
Reminds me of one ‘takedown’ I saw where the guy ‘refuted’ Doug’s model that [men tend the garden and women tend the gardener] by quoting Genesis 1:28; “it says ‘THEM’, Doug!”. I didn’t know whether to laugh or facepalm.
Doug Wilson is so refreshing. A Chesterton for us Americans.
First it’s head coverings, then it’s women pastors, and it ends in drag queen story hour.
Drag queen Bible study 😅now 😊
@@donzellbroadnax1948 May it never be. But nothing surprises me anymore.
It will got o drag queen story hour, but it won't end there. Worse is to come, if the woke get their way.
I would also add that preaching in a general context in the world or even specifically preaching the good news of the gospel to sinners is not the same as holding a biblical office in the church governmental body, as in being an elder, pastor, bishop, deacon, etc. As a woman, I am sometimes "preaching" in a sense, as in exhorting sinners to trust in Christ or encouraging my fellow believers in their faith walk or even preaching to myself! That's very different than holding an authoritative leadership role within the body of Christ.
Complementarianism is a false teaching. At its center
it supports a two-tiered priesthood based on birthright.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood...
-excerpt 1 Peter 2
Reply for my full post 'Complementarianism' if desired.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually.
@@8784-l3b I don't need your post. I read my Bible. People being equal spiritually does not mean they have the same roles within the family or the church.
Pastor Wilson, you're right. Thank you. (signed, a woman)
Thanks Doug, always held the view women cannot have authority over a man. Thats it!
Finding excuses to make some categories of people "lesser" is one of the most damaging things in society. Desperately maintaining that is sad. Saying that a 30 year old woman is incapable of ordination by comparing her to a 10 year old boy is astounding.
I had a friend introduce me to Rick Warren bc she sings at his church in CA. I couldn’t put my finger on it at the time and had no previous knowledge of him and his books, sons suicide or his theology. All I can say is he landed weird in my ears, I sensed something wasn’t right but didnt really know what it was. Just strange to think back 3 yrs ago now n see how things have panned out. I dont even talk to that friend anymore either
Very important that you never talk to that friend ever, ever again.
@@danarose6314 it is important for me to know why it is so important for you to let me know how important you think it is for me realize the importance of it all… on second thought,
im good
@@trevornever27 And I mean ever again!
@@danarose6314 should I still reply to you though?
@@trevornever27hello i think you should talk to whoever u wanna talk to unless God tells you not too. Lol byr
Pastor Mike Winger does a great multi-part study on this topic with hundreds of hours of research exploring both sides and coming to same conclusion.
Amazingly, Warren, a *pastor*, had never read these passages or heard anyone preach them until a few years ago after which he immediately changed his mind on the issue and repented.
1Cor 11 women were speaking in the congregation, I think. What do you do with Phoebe, Pricilla, Philip's daughters. . .
Questions: what do you mean by "ordination to office"? Where do you find that in scripture? Are you referring to the appointment of elders and deacons?
Culture did change Rick. Notice he doesn't he deal with I Timothy 3.
I don’t know if he is right or wrong but I do know that he and his church is acting unethically. They should have left the SBC over this issue and instead now they are challenging that conference I suppose out of a misguided attempt to strong arm the smaller churches into their unorthodox beliefs.
So, Rick Warren was lying to the SBC meeting? He represented that he had a different understanding of THESE types of ministry positions. No he was lying, he ordains women
When you attempt to harmonize scripture with the ways of the world, scripture becomes discordant with itself. When all of scripture harmonizes, it remains discordant with the world.
I'm wi Doug on this one, but here's a little gem from Matthew Henry I read a few weeks back. "The women are sent to tell it to them, and so are made, as it were, the apostles of the apostles. This was an honour put upon them, and a recompence for their constant affectionate adherence to him, at the cross, and in the grave, and a rebuke to the disciples who forsook him." It's always striking to find language like this in the old guys, but I'm glad to find things that help me not be too dogmatic with my language.
Didn’t Mary Magdelene tell Peter and John, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him” (John 20:2) How is that preaching the gospel?
Try reading the end of John 20. Also see Mark 16:14. Jesus rebuked those who did not believe Mary's witness. "Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen."
The motto in our house is "live for an audience of one." You can live either for the approval of man or the approval of God.
One of the problems of trying to discuss this issue is that we live in ‘silos’ or ‘bubbles’ where we use biblical terminology differently, from the authors, and from each other, and we have numerous non-biblical presuppositions based on how our group does things. Our concept of “church” is often all about running an organisation today, in the Western world, built around staff, hierarchy like in a business, and everything revolving around a Sunday morning teaching meeting. By introducing words like “ordination”, conflating “pastor” and “elder”, etc. Christians end up going round in circles, with more heat than light. We need to do word studies, understand how the apostles used particular words, and try to get back to first century context, before proof texting to try to win arguments.
Oh lands sake- Saddleback church spent a month saying goodbye to Rick and his wife like listening to “ happy trails “ for over a month. But anyway, Rick is not doing a lot of heavy lifting with his extra non biblical teachings on who can be a pastor.
Is Rick this dense?
It's not density at all unfortunately. Rick is intelligent. He read those texts for 47 years and understood them just fine. Something changed.
yes
@@hudjahulos maybe he's got that mind virus or is one of those trans people
Looks like it...although it might be more nefarious than that!
He's a phony, like so many in the church today. The world is in the wicked state it is bc most so-called Christians capitulated to the culture bc they don't have the courage to stand against it
I honestly can not find one single scripture that specifically says a woman can pastor/preach at a church as the main pastor.
Complementarianism is a false teaching. At its center
it supports a two-tiered priesthood of believers.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood...
-excerpt 1 Peter 2
Reply for my full post 'Complementarianism' if desired.
Just a few minutes to read.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually.
Also wrote a short postable essay on Deborah,
a Judge of Israel. A Judge was far far above a
pastor in our time. Even the position of a single
individual being over a group of Christians is
very questionable itself. So 'pastor' is probably
a false position, except maybe ok for a house church.
Not sure at this point.
Thank you pastor Wilson for exposing this rubbish.
He didn’t see these scripture til three years ago
I literally asked a Pastor one time, why Jesus didn’t call female apostles? Or call queens over Israel in the Old Testament? No response
Russell Moore is such a rebel.
Tnx pas Doug I'm learning a lot from your ministry
This just shows that R. Warren does not know how to correctly handle Scripture. As a woman, this is tiring and sexist. It is saying that teaching women and children is beneath people and that this is not fully using the gift the Spirit bestowed upon them. This is also telling God that His gift and our calling are lacking... tread carefully
LISTEN, THERES ONLY ONE REASON SOMEONE CHANGES THIER MIND ON THIS ISSUE AND ITS ""MONEY""
That mansplaining line got me good 😂 😂😂
Well said sir. Thank you
“Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 18:3-4
Take note.
Amen brother
I see and hear it to
Matthew 13:9-He who has ears, let him hear.”
What they don't see
Proverbs 16:18-Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
God Bless
The pattern of apostolic leadership that governed the early Church after the Savior’s Ascension continues in the Church today.
In the early Church, the Savior set the pattern for Church leadership: “He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers” (Eph. 4:11).
God called me to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, 3 witnesses was in my mother’s kitchen I was 15 years old! Been preaching ever since ; I rather obey God than man !! ❤❤❤❤
Could it be that his wife or daughter influenced him more than he knew? eg Tony Campolo? We can always reason from Scripture after motivation mounts.
Just like Obama’s wife and daughters changed his stand on gay marriage.
Bummer about Tony Campolo. I always liked his talk about preaching, called: “It’s Friday! But… Sunday’s a-com-IN’!!!”
I guess anyone can change church teachings all these years if your Protestant. Just last year these men were saying there is nothing wrong with Rick Warrens teaching and theology simply because him and MacArthur were going to be on the same platform. Unstable in all their ways and in need of discernment, these men think that God has raised them up to correct the church after all these years. The arrogance to think that the church was never led by the Spirit until now. This is what Joseph Smith believed and Charles Taze Russell. This is how cults begin
There were not 120 in the upper room at Pentecost. It says that is was Peter and the Eleven...Acts 2:14 KJV
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Thanks Rick for giving old fashioned churches a Hillsong type makeover. Mr. Warren wrote a book called “ purpose driven life”that I feel ruined quite a few Churches. Many pastors got rid of the organists and old time hymns and brought in electric guitar players and drums. Also some preachers started preaching a different type of message, not related to sin., due to this book.
What’s wrong with electric guitars?
@@khanburger3610 Good point. There’s nothing wrong with any instrument. It was that my church took the divine hymns away. And replaced the music with New Age music. Also the pastor spent money on the upgrade of the stage and acoustics to attract the younger people. I don’t think a church needs so many “ programs” to attract people to come to church. Just teach from the Bible.
Maybe I’m just old fashioned. God bless you
The church is not a concert venue.
This subject is so clear in the bible that I can't imagine it being anything other than social political pressure that made him ordain women. Women preachers almost always receive special revelation to guide them on a personal level, or, they deny that the Bible is inerrant.
So what scripture says who can partake or administer the eucharist? The Lord's Supper was only giving to the 12, the great commission was given to the 11 and probably the women who told them to meet Christ there. The Holy Spirit was given to all present men and women, maybe children? What scripture gives anyone an office?
Absolutely blows my mind how Rick Warren has had such a large following with such weak argumentation.
But it's what people want to hear. People will always follow others that tell them what they want to hear.
David, yes it is sad.
It’s not women in ministry. It’s women in the pastorate.
Culture changed Rick Warren for sure.
Rick's such a coward
Another one bites the dust🎶
Love this. Tough subjects take strong men to address. Nicely done, Doug. Can't wait to see you address some of the tough questions Gary DeMar is exposing - questions most pastors have conveniently side-stepped in their pulpit deliveries over recent decades. I don't say this to mock you, Doug, but rather, to encourage you to do what many other pastors will continue to avoid doing. Let God be true... and let him bring truth and clarity to the church about all topics, including eschatology. :)
There are boy preachers already! Haha, and you guys loved them.
Rick Warren has many disturbing connections. One of which is the Trilateral Commission.
Warren's argument is sophistry.
Rick is going to have to re-repent. Assuming humility is possible for a man that is unresponsive to the “culture.”
What he really meant to say is “unresponsive to emails on this subject” lol
Warren: "Culture could not change me on this".
Why is it that now you decide to do this then???
Worked at Saddle Back and towards the end I could not believe my eyes or ears to what I witnessed!!!!!😮
Seems odd that someone who claims to have worked at Saddleback can't spell Saddleback.
I love when Google gives me long LGBTQMAP+ ads so that I can mute them and play them knowing that it will increase the ad revenue going to Canon Press.
Could you do a reaction to Calvin Robinson at the Oxford Union debate please?
Perhaps proactively saving the lost rather than reactively entertaining those who think they are saved but whose appetite for scandal - real or imagined - puts that in doubt.
So by the process of elimination we now know it is MONEY that changed Rick Warren. 😂😂🤣🤣
It's not that women can't study the Bible, or share the Gospel. Of course they can, and should. But all the New Testament qualifications for pastor/elder/teacher/ shepherd are directed at men. And the larger point is simply this: God has not given woman the authority to lead the Church, neither will God hold them responsible. That mantle falls squarely on the shoulders of men.
True that.
Thru one MAN sin came into the world, not thru the deceived woman.
Thanks for tackling this Doug. Rick is a coward and self-deceived. Will be praying for him and his family.
Rick Warren seems to be confusing preaching with testifying. Mary Magdalen was not sent to preach to the apostles, she was sent to testify about what she had witnessed.
But if they can't speak in church how can they even testify there? How many on here have women that speak in church? Be consistent.
@@andrealmoseley6575
Wrote a post called 'Complementarianism'.
Reply if you want it pasted up. It addresses this
false teaching.
When you desire popularity over TRUTH this tends to happen, sadly.