Crossing airplane very close. Landing in San Francisco (KSFO) Cockpit view
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- B737-700 cockpit view of the ILS approach to runway 28L in San Francisco International Airport (KSFO / SFO). Crossing runway operations, simultaneous take off and landing with a Hawaiian Airlines A330 taking off from runway 01R.
Sadly this was the same approach where Asiana 214 crashed on July 6 2013.
Boeing 737-700 vista desde la cabina de pilotos de la aproximación y aterrizaje a la pista 28L del Aeropuerto Internacional de San Francisco, California. (KSFO/SFO). Operaciones en pistas cruzadas, se puede observar un A330 de Hawaiian Airlines despegando de las pista 01R.
Con tristeza esta fue la misma aproximación donde se accidento el vuelo 214 de Asiana el 6 de Julio de 2013.
I wanted to give my 2 cents worth. First of all I'm a retired controller with 30 years experience.
At 1:18 in the vid Hawaiian is cleared for take off. It's not till almost 30 seconds afterward that he starts his toll. That's REALLY long and unprofessional. In the tape you can hear one of the pilots comment that he is rolling finally at about 1:50.
Having said all that what really matters is the rules. The 7110.65 (ATC procedures) makes this legal provided visibility is at least 3 miles and ceiling above minimums. The controller requirement is that the departure clears he intersection before the arrival touches down which did happen. The controller used his experience not to endanger other people's lives by panicking.
Efoxx ok thank you very much for the contribution.
Efoxx ok you are right, because a plane could of started to descend towards it, crashing.
KingOf TheCreepers
Could of?
Efoxx you already correct and I agree with you. The only correction I would add is that separation is the departure has to be through the intersection prior to the arrival crossing the landing threshold. Thanks for your controller service bud!
Efoxx ok thank you for the explanation, very much appreciated!
I was a controller at SFO. When I was there the requirement was that the departing aircraft had to clear the intersection before the arriving aircraft crossed the threshold for it to be "legal". In this case that requirement was met. We had a few airlines who would take their time after being cleared for takeoff and occasionally we would have to cancel takeoff clearance as they weren't moving in time. The guideline was you could clear an aircraft for departure on a crossing runway if the arrival was at least two miles from the threshold. If you had a airline (PSA) who would go when you told them, then you could reduce that margin. Close ones such as on this video were called "good eyes".
thank you very much for the information
Al Cuevas
The job isn't for everyone. It helps if you like aviation, airplanes and flying. But just like being a doctor or lawyer or carpenter you have to really want to do it. One thing that I forgot to add is that you had two data people who assisted you with the arrivals and departures. They also acted as a cross check and would point out any potential problems. More than once the data person prevented a problem.
Just took the new ATSA last week so I'm really hoping I get a "referred" status from the FAA so I can go to the academy. I've wanted to be a controller my whole life. Keeping my fingers crossed
Good luck Grant. If you make it the job can provide tremendous job satisfaction.
1:56 Co-pilot “what’s up? What’s up?” 1:59 Captain “landing”. Pilot clearly saw the Airbus would be clear of the intersection before touchdown. Close? Yes, but nothing illegal or unsafe. Great video
Strong work Rob T. I could hear you call out for the "Hawaiian" before he even rotates. Good situational awareness.
I’ve been flying in and out of San Francisco for 35 years. That wasn’t that close. The controllers have figured out the timing including slow reaction time for departures and arrivals. I fly all variants of the 737.
Thomas Ryan, IV : Shouldn’t you be concentrating on flying the damn plane rather than posting on RUclips??
He didn’t take off for about 30 seconds after he was cleared too. That, in itself was the problem. It was too close too. You might wanna be careful what you start to become comfortable with....
@@johnb8956 he started his t/o roll within 16 seconds, well within the parameters of a clearance and actual roll. The approaching aircraft hasn’t even crossed the threshold of 28L and the Hawaiian Heavy has already passed the intersecting runway. I have literally landed and taken off those runways over a 1000 times - this is very normal operations for most airports that have simultaneous approaches and departures for major airports in the US, which I have operated out of all of them.
I don't know why all the thumbs down on this. The title is fine. It is close and it looks a bit dangerous, despite the fact that it is perfectly within the parameters of safety. I think it's a great video!
"a bit dangerous" means ?
Andrea 1604 More dangerous than not dangerous, but less dangerous than really dangerous!
Haters r everywhere
There are thumbs down because many self proclaimed aviation experts (12 years olds) think they know better
These are routine procedures at KSFO, perfectly timed and within safety margins. Controllers and Pilots know that.
More than 10 seconds from touch down to reaching the intersection, seems safe to me. From the runway treshold that counts even more time to get there.
at SFO the scary part is getting through the terminal and out into traffic!
at SFO the scary part is that you're now in a city that is literally covered in feces
PaleBear ... and pee
PaleBear too bad San Francisco is 12 miles away from the airport. Nice try though
It’s amazing how they run that place. So many times going in there I think “we’ll, that’s not gonna work.” Then it does, like magic!!!
That was so close you could see a passenger doing the finger
I wasn't on board either flight. Nor was I involved in this incident in any way. I have been to San Francisco, but wasn't there when this happened. These factors all contributed to me surviving this incident. Thankfully, somebody made a video or I wouldn't have known how close I came to death's door.
That plane ran the lights on yellow.
I had a close encounter like this when we were landing on runway 31 into LaGuardia. They were using the Expressway Visual and departing 31 and on the final turn to final at about 500 feet I looked up at the runway and saw a plane just starting its line up to take off. I knew we were less than a minute from touchdown and they rotated maybe right when we were about to cross the threshold. Those controllers know what they are doing but still its pretty freaky lol.
I love landing and taking off in SFO! I've had some of my best crosswind landings there and I always try to get the bay tour departure if the weather is good.
2:01 you can thank me later
No
Thank you
😂😂😂😂
Ty...later.
Wasn’t even close. Dude was through intersection way before other flight crossed threshold. He was like 1.5 mile final? Good situational awareness
Had to watch for a second time to see when the other plane crossed
so do i. lol
1:44 from the left side on the runway.
Thank you 🐪
This isn’t the movies. A real life scenario like this is considered close in avionics
I believe that when most people read "very close", they think they're about to watch a near miss. Hence feeling they've been duped by the title. I wasn't.
Good landing video. You may want to ad to the title or highlight somehow the crossing departure traffic as your about to flair. thanks for the video.
Thank you very much for the suggestion.
thats when they pull the nose up a bit, to burn speed as they touch down on the runway. its basically stalling the airplane.
Thanks literal Fabio. but i think he meant "Flare" considering the context of the video. but in the spirit of pretentious literal corrections "Flair" can also mean instinctive aptitude and ability, and "Flare" can mean a burst of sudden bright light, or a gradual widening (of skirts or pants)
This is the Yoonited Stayts. Speling not manduhhtoree. smh..
If I knew a plane was directly in front of me, I would've just hit the reverse button.
It exists but it doesn't always work.
I used to commute into SFO once a week. One of the available channels for passengers was the cockpit radio. I always listened on approach. I was shocked how many separation violations occurred in that air space.
not rhys
This was United. Maybe 15 years ago. And NO it is NOT standard. I used to fly that airspace. Gross violations of separation as close as 100 yards is insane.
Patrick EH how have I never heard of this before!?! what airline did you use?
RY28L is 11381' long, RY28R is 11870' long.
As a supervisor, air traffic controller, I would say this was not close at all. I had something similar happen to me. Some idiot passenger reported a "near miss" at his arrival airport two hours later. I got a phone call (surprise) inquiring about it. Needless to see I didnt know what the caller was talking about. Moral to the story, if you don't know what you are talking about, keep your mouth shut.
or at least turn your certainties in questions for example "did that plane passed too close?"
ATC Larry Smith - Hey man I'll second your opinion all day long. I'm going to say it again because I like the sound of it and some people need to hear it again. If you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut! Thanks Larry I feel better.
I noticed in various videos on youtube that in the US more than one airplane can be cleared to land on the same runway, and even with departing in front.
I fly in Europe and I only get "you are number X" calls until the runways are completely clear before I get a "cleared to land".
When it's real busy I can even expect the call "Expect late landing clearance".
Nice pretty vid. The cross traffic was closer than it should be but no danger detected
Just a little math, (I'm estimating of course) the landing plane was doing about 150mph, which, times 1.5 would give an approximate feet per second of 225 times the 27 seconds before said landing plane reached the intersection the other plane crossed means they were approximately 5850 feet apart or just over a mile.
For anyone criticizing the Hawaiian airliner, if you look at the video closely, they did actually start rolling very soon (less than 10 seconds) after they were cleared. The close spacing was the ATC's call, and they were within safe limits.
pop5678eye in fact they were Cleared for take off at 1:10 but they start rolling between 1:30 and 1:34 almost 25 seconds after take off clearance
Try again.
wake turbulence does not affect the aircraft crossing in this case, because induced drag was not being generated yet when the hawaiian crossed their landing runway
The crossing aircraft was a mile away by the time they crossed the runway.
Now imagine they had aborted their takeoff, then what? It would've force the pilots to make a rapid go-around decision. Pilots who are busy with landing an airplane.
I'm not sure, but I think that would qualify for a go-around because the departing aircraft hasn't cleared 28L at minimums.
Airblader
Read the first comment above.
One mile. I am not a pilot but Googled "Average landing speed of 737-700. came up with 130 - 140 kts. 120 would be two miles every minute so 30 seconds to cover 1 mile. So the airplane is less than 30 seconds away. Any other problem with a take off (such as a wheel blowing and aborted t/o) would not give the incoming enough time to SAFELY clear. Probably still would, but this is still pretty close....
I'd say the controller was on his game with this one. Great job by all, pilots and controllers.
Charles T So pilots can't make a decision to go around if they feel the situation is unsafe? The controller must tell them to go around? I think not.
Charles Thomson It was a good job by all concerned, except maybe the HA pilot who took his time on takeoff. The controller didn't panic and cancel the landing clearance, the landing pilots didn't panic with the HA and declare a go around. How is that hard to understand?
Charles Thomson Oh, I get you now, after a quick google search, your ATC in Houston. You are one of "those" controllers.....
Charles Thomson Oh yes, the Millennial Controller, who tells his wife and little daughter and all his friends how if it wasn't for him, planes would drop out of the sky and all air transportation would cease to exist!!! Lol. Tell that to the controllers that were fired by Reagan in '81.....life went on, and so did the transportation system. Grow up kid. Learn to appreciate other people for their contributions in life, especially when it directly effects your livelihood. LN out.
Charles Thomson How unprofessional. You won't last a career in ATC.
Two aircraft cannot occupy the runway at the same time. The Hawaiian Air 737 rotated and cleared the intersection of runways 1 and runways 28 before the landing aircraft landed. Nothing out of the ordinary for SFO here. The expression at KSFO is "Land two and blast off two through the hole." This goes on all day at KSFO and is normal ops. Completely safe. And yes, I am a commercial pilot.
While the crossing plane cleared the intersection prior to the incoming plane touching down I found it extremely difficult to keep my (and the pilots) eyes focused on the tarmac and not in the departing plane. Human nature.
Thats what I call keeping the runways hot!
was that a wiper on the nose of this plane or did someone just drive a rod through the metal with a hammer and put a bolt on top for good measure....
In December of 1991, I landed my 1954 Cessna 170B on that same runway, although I only used the last 500' of it.
The landing fee was something rediculous, like $75, but I didn't really care.
I got to jump jumpseat on a flight into SFO which did a go around for traffic. I think it was an Alaska flight that was a little too sluggish departing 01R. Tower initiated the go around right about 200 ft AGL. Felt like a bucket list thing I was able to cross off.
a. Separate an arriving aircraft using one runway
from another aircraft using an intersecting runway or
a nonintersecting runway when the flight paths
intersect by ensuring that the arriving aircraft does
not cross the landing threshold or flight path of the
other aircraft until one of the following conditions
exists:
REFERENCE−
FAA Order JO 7110.65, Para 2−1−21, Traffic Advisories.
1. The preceding aircraft has departed and
passed the intersection/flight path or is airborne and
turning to avert any conflict.
(See FIG 3−10−6 and FIG 3−10−7.)
The departing aircraft was past the intersection, off the ground and ascending, and almost out of the frame before the landing aircraft crossed the threshold. I don't see a problem with this looks good to me.
For those saying it is not close. It is close because after ATC gives an aircraft clearance to takeoff, it is still the pilot's discretion on when to throttle up and actually takeoff. If he took off 25 seconds later, it would have been hit. (although the plane landing would most likely go around anyways and the plane taking off most likely had visual on the incoming aircraft). So it was close but close to an extent, so it wasn't extremely close. Actually it was close, but this happens all the time in San Francisco and other cross runway airports that it becomes generalized as a normal distance..
Final Approach Aviation Not if ATC says "cleared for immediate takeoff, no delay".
By ATC terms that wasn't too close.
Estuve en la misma posición que ese avión despegando; pude ver Por la ventanilla izquierda cómo se aproximaba otro al mismo tiempo que nosotros partíamos de SFO
Did I see a hot air balloon pass by doing 300 knots?
Years ago I took off from my home field and was at 500 feet or so, ready to turn crosswind for the pattern. I liked the rectangular pattern because it stretched my flying muscles; it included takeoffs, climbing turns, level flight, descending turns, stall and spin aviodance and landings. It was great way to practice the fundamentals of flying.
Then a small single-engine high-wing airplane flew directly under me maybe, maybe, 200 feet away. This was a major -- no, a HUGE -- violation of both regualtions and common sense. If it was some sort of emergency then I get it, but the fucker never replied to a radio message or bothered to explain what he was doing.
Bottom line: You know those assholes who cut you off while driving or steal parking spots right under your nose? Some assholes also fly airplanes!
4 runways crossing at one of the business airports in the world. Madness! They missed by only 20 seconds.
Vera close????
That wasn’t even close
That was close: Are you joking😒🤔😤🥱
I really thought I was going to see another plane fly in front of him . That wasn’t close at all compared to flying into Atlanta as we turned to align with our runway I seen the bottom of another plane . Now that is close .
I waited and waited...😱
You know that air traffic controller could have gotten fired right?
The cockpit sound absolutely pro and on their game during approach. The delayed takeoff was verbally noted between pilots. Reconfirmation of landing was affirmed. Visibility was exceptional. This is what we pay and trust our top pilots to do. I will fly with this crew anytime.
é ai onde você observa o cálculo meticuloso que a torre faz ao autorizar uma decolagem e um pouso em pistas tranversais. Muuuito top.
What route was this?Also,what airline was this?
Personally, I wouldn't describe this as "close" at all. Roughly 30 secs passed from the point where the departing airplane was likely clear of the landing runway and when the arriving airplane got to the intersection.
This happends ALOT at SFO during busy days.
I agree with Al and in fact this wasn't considered close. I've had closer, but without concern. Controllers, control and the majority are good at it. When they say 'cleared' and then, 'no delay', it's up to the pilot to roll immediately or inform ATC that they will hold.
Why did you cut off the close part?
Lol it was funny when Aeromexico pilot started cursing “este pendenjo se tardo”😂 1:50
Lmao
If you thought yhat was close you go to Newark and watch the aircraft that have just landed scramble across the active take off runway to get to the terminal. It's poetry in motion.
I'm pretty sure there's no violations here but in general when you have big objects moving at high speeds with low margin for error you don't want to cut things that close.
I agree it was a very close one. Closer than usual for a crossing runway. But I also agree that it was safe because the airplane departing took off before this plane even touched down.
This wasn’t close by any means. The plane was at least 400 feet in the air before touch down.
if any body is wondering about fishing in that area their is alot of halibut and stripers and small sharks and rays in that area,where the plane flys over its only 5 feet all over that area 10 feet max but if you go by were they call the bird cage its towards the right in the water its only 30 feet max if anyone wanted to kno..
Imagine a rejected take off in the middle of the runway while another aircraft is performing an IlS III landing with poor visibility..could be dangerous
I wonder when was the last time the airport scraped the rubber from the runways. It looks pretty thick.
My father was a pilot for United. he had one incident flying into LAX. the whole way in they alerted each handoff that they were low on fuel and each time got vectored around. finally as they started final they hit mayday fuel (less than 30 minutes) but were already in the pattern and about 12 minutes out from touchdown. as they began the approach my father noticed there was an aircraft sitting at the end of the runway. they called tower, no tower response, they called again, and again no response. The runway plane hadnt been cleared for takeoff and my father, now less than 2 minutes from wheels down, had not been cleared to land by the tower. Finally 30 seconds out the tower saw what was about to happen and told him to go around. "UALxxx, Go around, climb and maintain 4500, heading 170". my father told them "Im declearing a fuel emergency, im maintaining 1700 and turning right". they asked him to repeat, which he did, and had him land on another runway. he got the supervisors number to call (for the Runway incident and emergency declaration). The supervisor was expecting his call. apparently there was a new controller in the tower who had forgotten that they had placed an aircraft on the runway and failed to coordinate with departures regarding another aircraft on another Runway and so it sat there too long.
How long ago since the seemingly never depart and land the same runways at LAX these days.
That was "so close" that it made headline news at CNN
Just like Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. Gotta love technology 😊
You understand that in Nascar they're doing same speed as those planes inches apart.
Dangerous to permit such a close encounter in case of fog, rain etc.
I'm sure they have visibility limits, amongst other limits that need to be met before allowing that procedure.
That's one you observe then think about for a while afterwards.
ATC was probably sitting the entire time about to tell the 737 to go around. I not expert or anythign at all, but play a lot of flight sim back in day. I would think that primary issue here, is it's get harder and harder to estimate the separation. Here it might seem like it was close, but then almost another minute till the aircraft actually touches down. So the issue would be when it works the other way, and it looks like there is a gap and instead it all works out that two of them run right smack into one another.
Very dangerous... If plane crossing would have stalled, this could have turned drastically devastating.
Where is the plane which crossed closely ?
Wow, these video games have come a long way.
was that a windshield wiper in front of the camera
Lol! It was the date....1980 the 3rd of jan. Returning from michigan christmas time leave from Castle AFB in Merced, Atwater, Stockton area, as soon as the plane landed and started to roll solid, Wham!!!! Gust of wind from the north side swiped the plane and damn near hit the south side wing tip, damn near pin wheeled at 140? Ive had one emergency flight since then but no more.
Que aerolínea es. Es Aeromexico?
It may have seemed that there was enough distance between planes, but what if the Hawaiian Airliner had to abort the takeoff after rolling several hundred feet? Do they know that there is a 737 landing?
Close,did I miss something?
what vidoe game is these? can you get for the xboy?
that wiper is what you guys use at full speed? Damn!
Was this COPA ?
No problem there at all, looks close but 2 aircraft are not on the intersecting runways at the same time. Arriving aircraft had another 20 feet of altitude remaining before touchdown while the departing aircraft was already airborne. All good on ATC part.
The required separation is that the departing aircraft must be clear of the intersection before the landing aircraft crosses the runway threshold.
100... 50... 40... 30... 20... 10...
BuTtEr
(some catchy Swiss001 butter song)
Guauuuu!! Que cerca pasaron los dos!!!
Why’s everyone complaining? You should live life on the edge.
Non c'est classique comme approche et l'autre au décollage , un poils tardif mais sans danger pour les deux , j'ai vu plus serré les approches d'avion en décollage et atterrissage sur la même piste sur marignane .La tour de contrôle travail très souvent en tension avec les vols quand le trafic sature .
¡Vaya! Un vuelo mexicano.
Superb Video Mate !
Seen this often. Have landed there many times.
Very nice..
Ok. Everything legal and under control... until something goes wrong.
I landed at this airport four weeks ago and was shocked to see another jet on the run way to our right landing in tandem with us... very scary!
that is very common sight in sfo, but they only allow it now for domestic flights not international. i guess must have something to do with what happened to asiana airlines in 2013. it also happens in other airports like atlanta but in san francisco, they planes are much closer because of the proximity of the runways. i guess, the planes are about 750 feet apart.
Same at DFW with 4 runways - 2 side by side on each side of terminals. Planes routinely come in nearly same time.
Now THAT'S a dash-cam!!!!
hi can i post this with credit in instagram ?
where is atc at that time ??????
Are you implying that ATC slipped-up here? In what way?
after looking at google maps the planes were about 1.25 mi away from each other.
Was this an Aeromexico arrival?
That was pretty close with another plane crossing and taking off! Isn't that way too risky?
This happens a 100 times a day at SFO. There's plenty of clearance between the two aircraft.
That plane that crossed was far enough away that it showed no threat.
What Dafuq anything could go wrong at that distance. No plane should take off once landing plane gets a green light. I'm no pilot nor ATC, but I think it's common sense. What if the taking off plane had engine failure mid way?
What Dafuq chand vovle
They had plenty of time to go around.