December 10 - DOOM's 30th Anniversary Stream with John Romero, John Carmack, and David L. Craddock
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Watch as David L Craddock moderates a chat between John Romero and John Carmack about Wolfenstein, DOOM and Quake. One hour of great conversation on DOOM's 30th Anniversary. -- Watch live at / theromero
Publishing the source code was one of the best decisions ever made. This is a way to keep the game alive and active forever, else the activity would have subdued over time.
Totally.
Doom, Doom II was awesome in its prime but...stock maps are stock. The user Wads and megawads and mods, yea it kept the game going!
I think for 17 years straight now, 'ive played through atleast 1 megawad every year atleast.
Too bad the multiplayer is sucky, playerbase i mean in Doomseeker, everybody is playing some damn Megaman mod, nobody are on the awesome DM maps.
Not too long ago, well 7 years ago, i was playing Whodunit, Dead by Daylight in Doom form.
A Command & Conquer mod was awesome, but it needs people!
It was financially horrible for id, but it greatly helped gaming as an industry and community.
@@Jay_SullivanYou couldn't be more wrong, 'cause the license for the Doom source states that you need to have the original game to run your version of the Doom engine. Without the original game, checked via well known .wad files, you are on illegal territory. Unless you do a separate licensing. This way they keep up the sales up for 30 years now. Same goes for Quake source code. That is the other side of the coin, literally, which I left out mentioning.
@@JouMxyzptlk , oh, Carmack was wrong when he talked about another company making more money off of their engine than they made. I'll let him know that some random kid on the internet knows more about id's history than he does. I'll also let Bethesda know that they can't own id because id was actually massively successful when they made their engine open source. Thanks!
@@Jay_Sullivan Please excuse me, my internet mind reading capabilities are lacking lately to extract the full extend of what you refer to and what you mean in detail.
Please be so kind to provide full reference in future remarks to help me understanding your context of thought.
As for "other companies": I never denied that. Especially when looking into the half-life direction, even though Vavle extended the capabilities enormously, like ragdoll-style control of characters instead of vertex-controlled animations.
As for "kid": I experienced the Atari 2600 when it was new, so your time must be 'round when "Colossus" was newest to crack Enigma.
Great to see you guys come together for 30 years of DOOM
Right? I designed two entire custom episodes for D1... "Darkhell" and 'Blakhell". I learned a ton about design, softlock prevention, the discipline to complete a huge project, and the idea of crafting competent jumpscares! 😁 WAY TO GO, ID SOFTWARE!
This overcomes any sadness for no new id announcements. Wholesome.
666 likes on first comment in this situation is so fitting. And it's still 666 likes.
@@user-rk9xe4is4c I'm not gonna upvote. Leave 666 here
@@user-rk9xe4is4c aaand some smeghead ruined it.
"You guys wanna know why John Romero had an ego? Cause he made the video game equivalent of Thriller"
-Civvie
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well.
I mean if you had made DOOM when you were 26 you would let it get to your head too.
He didn't solo make it by himself though, he had some of the best programmers to date working on it
@@moviesynopsis001 to be honest, Carmack (The time traveling, interdimensional overgenius and actual rocket scientist John Carmack) soloed almost everything when it came to programming the really important stuff in the engine. so it's more like one of the best programmers. Everyone else who did programming basically only did level design (I think). Romero did do some awesome like creating the actual level editor though, as well as most of the episode one levels. But I think Carmack deserves the most credit here.
@@Scream_Soda172 I think they both deserve equal and opposite credit. Like a yin yang if you will. Without Carmack, the game wouldnt have been nearly as technologically impressive, and without Romero, the game wouldnt of been nearly as cool. It was the melding of both of them (and more people) that created something magical. That my friends, is the power of working together.
It's quite inspiring to see these people reunited for a short period of time to meet such a historical moment together. 30 goddamn years... Gives you a food for thought
i was 12 when this game came out. didnt actually get to play it till the jaguar hahaha.
@@justins21482 I was 11 when this game came out, and played it on my dad's PC, and it was slow as fuck. Fortunately, Moore's Law solved that problem, and due to the extreme modifiability of the game, it's not like it was starved for content!
@@justins21482 I was 15 and I rememer the exact place I saw it running for the first time. It was a Chinese-run computer store in a small mall in Paris' 13th arrondissement. You can't reproduce the awe I was in watching this shit. I was already a Wolf3D fan but this was really something else. People who were born after just cannot realize how much of a turning point this game was.
@@justins21482 hahaha.
⁰0⁰0
Hearing Carmack, mr unsentimental himself, talk about how he's proud of what they did back then and remembering the good times...not gonna lie, that hit me right in the feels. Living legends, both of these men, so happy that you managed to pull together this stream
100%!
Seriously where would I be in life without their influence..... Wait a second.....where am I 🤨🧐
They are still friends
I think Carmack has grown to be just a bit warmer and more sentimental in recent years. Never losing his technical edge of course
@@Vestu he's a sharp boy
Glad that John Romero and John Carmack ain't mad like they used to. Thanks to both of you for doing this.
Haha, i heard him say he even worked on classified stuff back in the day.
I don't hope real people or the gov't were really tapping into some demonic Argent energy.😅
they never were really mad
@@klaasj7808 Guessing they were a bit, Carmack fired Romero.
@@Rootfury yeah romero was a lame worker to carmack standards so they both had issues. as what is the definition or being lazy or working good enough. for many its never good enough and carmack is that kind of person. but i dont think they were ever real mad, maybe they were. but not for decades. and i think carmack was right looking at romero's failure with making me his bitch.
@@klaasj7808 That was just ego, anyone could make that mistake.
I love how happy Romero is during the entire interview! What he and Carmack had was special!
You can tell they regret not working with each other after Quake. I feel it's time for them to do something together as a side project but just start with brainstorming ideas. No stress
They should walk into id Software, hostile takeover, start a direct sequel to Quake 1 on id Tech 8 re-optimized by The Carmack himself.
had? its still special. nobody can compete
carmack got rid of romero way back :(
Romero seemed insincere and fake smiling tbh. Carmack is the goat.
Romero and Carmack the godfathers of Doom coming together to show us their love of games and how far we've come. Thank you guys for continuing to support your baby after 30 freaking years and so happy that I've been lucky enough to be able to be be part of all 30 with Doom introducing me to computers. 🥂
Not only godfathers of Doom but the godfathers of an entire gaming generation!
@@wlockuz4467 oh I didn't see your comment here lol. I've deleted mine, yours is much more accurate
Does Carmack even love games?
They are the *fathers* of Doom, not the godfathers
@@leeartlee915yes
I've had a career in IT now for about 25 years. DOOM, Quake, Unreal, and many other games absolutely pushed me to learn how to use and configure computers, networks etc. They made learning those skills fun and they did transfer to production environments.
100% my story as well.
Ditto. Walked into a friend's model shop, and he had Wolfenstein playing on a x286 on a black and white monitor. Blew me away.
Within a week I'd ordered a then cutting edge x486 with 4mb of ram lol.
IPX networking and general dos and windows support led to a career in It too lol
There's something absolutely hilarious about watching the guys with decades of computing experience struggle with cameras and audio for a meeting.
They're human after all!
Have you ever visited an IT department where the printer just works?
@@VortechBand a working printer exists? The legends are true!
Just goes to show how much these proprietary software is...
Well, one of them is human, the other one is the benevolent hyper-intelligent architect of the post-singularity simulation we all live in.
I think it's _because_ they were/are so focused on their art, that setting up cameras & audio is an after-thought.
John Carmack is 100% right. ID Software had a feel and a vibe, and you knew it when you played their games. Adrian Carmack is very underated. ID games always had this "industrial meets flesh" type transhumanism going on with their games, which I thought was very creepy. Giants in the industry for sure!
Everything has this lovely chunky feel to it.
Indeed. This fusion of metal and flesh is something also present in a lot of David Cronenberg films
Adrian Carmack did all the monster models and a lot of the art. A big part of Doom. It is definitely sad he didn't get much praise for it. The praise is usually left to the programmers of games, sadly.
Not even the modern adaptations (Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal) were able to replicate that theme. Just for this alone, and for the slower pace, is why i prefer the original 1993 Doom over those two. The average game dev has a horrible habit to make everything super-fast paced.
@damsen978 you say that but most levels in Doom I have a par time of under 3 minutes.
2 johns are better than one I wish they would do something again together even if it was small
Would be hella cool, but I doubt it. It's because of Carmack. He seems to be all about the bleeding edge, but the tools and tech are amazing now. He has nothing left to do in gaming.
I would love to see Romero pair up with some other excellent tech guy with creative deficiencies, like the dude that made Teardown.
Would be cool to see them make a project with the choice between one of there old engines id tech 1-2-3-4 etc.
@@richardhunter9779there's always something left to do. Carmack is so talented, he can turn his hand to any new technical challenge or problem. Romero is a creative visionary with the natural intuition for what rocks. I think they could create something spectacular together, even if comparatively 'simple' with modern big releases. It doesn't need to be cutting edge graphics, but what about some amazing AI? Carmack's working in the AI space right now... These guys had the ideas, vision and technical ability to create new worlds & features. If the drive is still there, I'm sure they're beyond capable.
@@richardhunter9779 Carmacks always pushing the bleeding edge, right now the bleeding edge is VR so maybe a VR game?
@@distantforest2481He already worked for Oculus / Meta for years but he decided to leave because Zuckerberg couldn't get his head out of his ass, so Carmack left. A bit of over simplification but it was something along those lines. So now he works in AI and left VR world behind, for now at least.
Doom was the first game I ever played, thank you Johns. You guys have my eternal gratitude for making my childhood!
It's one of the first I remember playing and the first I got addicted to besides Sonic 2
Eternal
My first PC game was Wolfenstein 3D waay back in 1992 , I was 6 . I still love Wolfenstein 3D!
Uersname checks out!
Imagine both Johns at QuakeCon 2024.....I would drop everything just to attend.
The moderator for this interview was great, I could listen to these two talk for hours.
Yes, how exciting it'll be to see them both onstage... especially for Quake 30th anniversary
EPIC!
Spent last night playing SIGIL II and it made my jaw drop in spots. Brought a smile to my face to still see clever and unexplored level ideas from Romero on the 30th anniversary.
If you like clever and unexplored, you need myhouse.wad
Sorry if that's old news but all DOOM fans need to play it. Most mindblowing level I've played of any game
One thing I like about Sigil 2 is how there seems to be such a big gap between HMP and UV. Where HMP is kinda too easy, UV is a serious challenge!
Awesome to see Carmack and Romero together. Hope to see something like this again in 3 years for Quake, one of the most groundbreaking games of all time.
Well the development of Quake made the original team split a part. So I wouldn't hold my breath for it. Lol.
Some kids are fans of basketball players and others of gangsters, but *You guys are the heroes of my childhood.* I would go to the shopping mall with my mum, in the very early nineties just to play Wolfenstein 3D at some random shops where they had setup a pc 386 with the game running. My goodness, that changed my life. Today, I am an engineer working on computer graphics and computer vision thanks a large part to you. You have made great contributions to humanity. ❤
DOOM was released a few years before I was born but somehow I idolise DOOM's creators. I go full crazy mode whenever there's a mention of John Carmack.
I'm also about to start my computer graphics career just after getting my master's degree.
Best wishes for you. 🔥
I just love these comments. "oh this inspired me as a kid now look how successful I am" meanwhile me being a complete failure and probably about to kms soon
@@crylunebro
@@crylune bear in mind that many successful stories had a 'previous chapter' similar to what you are going through
basketball players and others of gangsters))
Absolutely amazing to see Carmack and Romero together having fun and talking about Doom Wolfenstein and Quake. I wish it would be longer.
Congrats on SIGIL 2, and thank you for getting together with Carmack for this wonderful day.
John, hi from Russia! Just finished listening your book about Doom. It's unbelievably great to imagine how it was to you in your youth to create such historical things as Doom and Quake. It's very touching to listen about your family, dad and his little box of memories about you. It's heartbreaking moment.
John, thank you for the book and your games. Thanks you for our moments of happiness and carelessness in this scary and unfriendly worlds.
Cheers from Russia, brother!
Great to see them together. I love Doom and Quake - I am 40 years old and last night for the first time I played a LAN game with my 17 year old daughter. She enjoyed it and was floored how good an “old” game is
Haha, "got into networking/IT because of Doom", 100%. I went from the guy that always got invited to LAN parties (to make the computers talk to each other) to setting up networks across 10k acre offices and factories on 3 continents, even on an oil rig. It's wasn't just Doom but that was certainly where it started. Half Life is where my networking skills really kicked into high gear. As if that wasn't enough, Doom also started a lifetime passion/hobby in modding games, from maps and textures in Wolf 3d and Doom to remaking and replacing character models in my favorite, now outdated, games.
Thank you guys, I have had so many adventures in my life thanks to your games, stories to tell, friends to treasure and memories to hold onto for a lifetime. It's hard to believe it's been 30 years already, my young self never would have guessed where those 1.44mb shareware disks would lead me. Absolute legends!
i wish i was at the forefont of something like this... everything sucks and is boring now
@humanharddrive1 wtf!? you live in the rise of AI. Carmack himself said that in HIS childhood he thought he "missed the boat", totally wrong then and now. The golden age is RIGHT NOW
@@Wobbothe3rd ai is ebil
@@Wobbothe3rd AI sucks tho
@@Wobbothe3rd what's so wonderful about AI?
This is amazing ! ♥ Thanks for doing this ! It's so great to see John Romero and John Carmack together again !
Did anyone else get emotional at the closing words from both Johns? This stuff just means so much to a lot of people.
People played DOOM with people that don't live anymore or people they haven't seen since childhood. It's such a powerful emotion and they are both involved
I got sad 😔
Yes, it was enraging.
Congrats for 30 years of Doom guys! You’ve created so many memories for me. I still play Doom to this day and will never stop. Also, I thank you guys and everyone at ID Software for making Doom open source, because the mod support is insane for Doom, and it’s still enjoyable!
People still cherish and play this game 30 years later! I still remember getting in mad trouble playing the Doom 2 demo on my families first PC! 😆😆🙏🙏🥰🥰
I am 37, but still feel so fucking old. I remember playing Wolfenstein 3D for the first time at 6 years old in 1992, and Doom at 7 years old in early 1994.
Your old gramps
Thats because you are old
You kids are just jealous that we got to witness such amazing history.
@@brendandoyle7508 same! What a time to be alive!
Thank you for hosting John Carmack and for all the contributions to video games over your career.
I've always had a clever way to run DOOM on every computer/game device I've ever owned and it's always a treat to find unique ways to play this timeless game. As a teenager, I never experienced DOOM until my dad bought the collectors edition of DOOM 3 for xbox which had the classic games with master levels. It wasnt until I started playing custom levels and TC mods on a PSP source port of all things. I remember sending an email to Romero himself about playing on the psp and he responded the next day to my shock. DOOM was the game that catapulted modding games as an extension of my hobby.
You can play DooM on anything
LCD screens of a printer, fridge, toaster....
Carmack and Romero seems so different in personality, can really understand how they both would like complete each other and also frustrate each other 🙂
Classic yin-and-yang partnership, like Lennon/McCartney or David Lynch & Mark Frost.
It's good to see both Johns sharing their experiences and having a great time together after 30 years, I really enjoyed the talk and seeing them all happy and friendly sharing their thoughts of the times they worked together, great stuff!
Happy 30th Anniversary to Doom!
To both Johns - thank you for a wonderful childhood. Thanks to you I'm where I am today. I wouldn't be inspired without you.
I second that! :)
Thirded!
Fourthed!
5thd! So well said
Congrats on the Anniversary. You guys are amazing!
To Johns point about learning networking because of Doom: He's 100% right. I was in 5th grade and my buddy got a copy of Doom 2. Which, of course in those days meant I also got a copy...
But we were 5th graders... 1994... figuring out how to make this networking game thing work, and it absolutely made me the person I am today. Working in IT, still a huge Doom fan... but it all started with gaming with my buddy and making sure mom didn't pick up the phone while we were fraggin'.
Same here, I forgot that all started by trying to playing Doom over a network.
Same here
Hey! Don't copy that floppy!
I have no words to express how much I love listening to John Carmack.
This guy is a genius
Really awesome to see both John and John streaming together 30 years later. I loved Doom (and Wolfenstein 3D) growing up and I still enjoy it more than ever today. Thank you both, and to everyone involved in bringing Doom to life!
I love these 2 guys. They are really special.
Nice to see both here after all these years!!!
Romero and Carmack are like the left (logical, structural) and right (creative, emotional) side of a brain working in perfect harmony.
I was 3 when Doom came out, and I've played it since it was brand new. I had fun playing head-to-head with my dad at Berkeley Systems in 1993-1994 when he was writing the After Dark Screensavers engine (he'd take me to work and we'd stay after hours and play Doom on the workstations), I enjoyed playing Doom with my dad and brother on-line when I was at my Nana's house, and I enjoyed exploring the secrets in the levels and escaping the real world after I started school in 1995. Commander Keen, Wolfenstein, Doom and Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure were my late toddlerhood/early childhood.
Thank you John Romero and John Carmack, (and Adrian Carmack and Tom Hall and all others at id) for making my early childhood truly amazing and magical. My whole family has enjoyed what you guys have made. I'm 33 now, and I got married 2 months ago. I'm going to play Doom with my wife tonight for the first time (on my Nintendo 3DS). :)
I remember that screensaver! Was really cool for the time!
You're both an inspiration! Thanks for your amazing work!
DooM is my favourite game of all time. I doubt that either of the Johns will ever see this message, but if they do - thank you so much for DooM. It's meant a lot to me over the years.
You should try Prodeus if you love doom. It's a newer game but it has that doom feel with a modern spin on it. It's really good.
I might check it out. Thanks!@@cchron1063
Prodeus is a very fun game to play
So glad to see that after all the drama that was Romero leaving id they managed to get over this and be able to talk about the good things they created together. Here's hoping this will be the first of many other opportunities to come.
There wasnt really any drama and Romero was ready to leave. Plus he would get royalties the rest of his life.
Times may change, but DOOM is Eternal.
Wow they got Carmack to stop his robot uprising to join you 😂
Had the pleasure of meeting John Romero when he came over to the UK in for a game conference in Brighton in July of 2017.
Got to have a great chat with him in his hotel room after watching him being interviewed for PC Gamer magazine (IIRC).
Thanks for being so gracious with your time John.
My daughter was not yet three years old at that time. Now she's ten and we play DOOM Co-Op and Deathmatch together. She's as enthralled with the game as I was when I first played it back in early 1993 on our indy software house's networked PC's 👍
The DOOM magic still working 30 years on !
Looking at the body language of both John's, seems there are unsaid things between them, but congrats for coming together again to share with the community who are still interested in what you are doing 🙏 Quakeworld launched my career as a software founder, putting together a team and running a clan, I found my first work through playing with a friend also, and that was a monumental moment in my life, as I am still dear friends with the people I met playing quake online back then in 1997-1999. Respect!
That moment when Carmack says "Romero leaned into it", talking about the "Rockstar Developer" image, was quite awkward 😅 but I'm glad they came together for this.
You're stretching for drama a bit here. These are both 50 something guys who know each others personality better then almost anyone. The comment about the leaning into being a rockstar was just a statement of fact and completely relevant to the question. Romero couldn't stop smiling for most of the video and looked extremely happy to have Carmack there.
@@Ash_18037 You're reading way too much into my comment. Have a nice day.
@@ttwoundsnah not that awkward. It's more awkward to completely avoid or deny certain facts. It's been a long time too.
Nonsense. They've said very clearly that they are friends.
The Two Johns still know what's fun all these years later. Playing modern games, they feel slow. Even Doom 2016 and Eternal feel slow compared to Doom and Quake.
2016 feels slow, but to me Eternal is just as fast as the classics.
Eternal feels slow? Nah
@@octagonseventynine1253 afraid so bud. I played on Nightmare first run too.
Sad thing is, I can't play FIFA or any racing game at all haha, get destroyed every time
It was an awesome time, with the three of you!
Incredible. Love this so much. Such an important piece of history here.
I'm so thankful that the two of you came together to do this. I can't believe it's been 30 years.
I feel old.
And yet, I saw the world irrevocably change before my eyes and in my youth, I may not have appreciated that which I was witnessing - but I'm glad I saw it first hand.
Thank you for this. It means a lot to so many. Love how humble, authentic and interesting the two Johns are. Both captivating. Could listen for hours.
My heart filled with joy regarding them making amends for past misgivings/mistakes/misunderstandings. The excitement to both attend Quakecon was sincere and palpable. Absolute icons... of sin. Had to say it!
I just replayed through DOOM and DOOM 2 this year and they still hold up remarkably well. If you never beat them as a kid you should definitely go back and play them.
will do. I never beat them before. And recently i got those games in GoG. I am super excited to enjoy those master pieces
The modding/mapping scene is such a special aspect of gaming. This has got to be one of the main reasons why games like doom and half life are still popular today.
Thank you for 30yrs of ripping and tearing! You two are truly legends of the genre!
30 years of the timeless classic.
Excellent interview. I watched it on Twitch but had to click it on RUclips to throw you a like... keep doing what you do Romero.. you and Carmack are LEGENDS!!!
It was amazing! Thank you guys for this incredible live. So good to see two Johns talking each other e sharing their feelings and knowledge. I felt honored on my 44 years old to watch my heroes (I am a computer programmer that in my free time build doom like engines) to watch this. Let´s hope for more on the future! Regards!
You guys are truly legends, your work will be remember forever! Thanks guys!
This game came out when I was about 12 years old and it redefined what a video game was to me. I had the opportunity and the privilege to be able to work on Doom 3 BFG edition (focusing on doom 1 + 2) and Doom Classic Complete as a QA tester - which launched my career in QA automation which led to software design after a decade of working fast food / customer service jobs.
I've had the chance to thank John Carmack via email while we were both working for Zenimax (for better or worse), and wanted to thank you directly on here, John R. So Thank you.
It's great to see you both together chatting Doom.
In 90s' many computer manufacturers were adding "MS DOS compatible" note to their hardware where in fact they should add "id Doom compatible", because that was the real reason to buy PC back then, lol
I grinned ear to ear when I saw this. So happy to see John Romero and John Carmack together. Love hearing them both individually, so this is a real treat seeing the both of them on a stream together.
Seeing you reunited to celebrate this monumental event has hit me in the feels in a way I want prepared for. Happy birthday Doom!
I've been a game developer for over 18 years and Doom and Quake single-handedly got me into it. These two are legends and I often think about those times.
This went by so quick. Awesome job moderating this chat between 2 legends. Loved it!
Two of my favorite programmers. Thank you for this! My 8 year old made his first Doom level last week.
I really think that the overall ease of making levels is one of the major components as to why Doom has endured, especially with the advent of the efficient and userfriendly Doom Builder programs, and better node builders, which makes it an absolute breeze to make Doom levels.
You look at a game like Duke Nukem 3D, and I love it, it's one of my favorites, but making levels for the Build engine is just nowhere near as easy, it exists in this twilight between Doom's fairly simple and straightforward "2.5D" and a full fledged 3D engine like Quake's, so a lot of what you'd want to do requires a lot of fiddling, like stacking sectors and all that kind of stuff.
If you want to do an underwater section you make that an entire separate area somewhere else in the level which given surface areas connect to (and need to match), and this works pretty well, but there's limits to this. For instance, like shooting a rocket from the water and up into the air, and you hear the kaboom coming from like, southwest or something, where that location actually physically is, rather from where you'd expect.
Compare to Quake, where you'll just shape out the location and then you just add the water, you don't need any tricks like that.
If you learn how to do all that, how Build works and how you can build levels for it, you can make some absolutely _phenomenal_ stuff with it, Ion Fury is a relatively recent example of all kinds of flashy things Build can do, but it's not easy and straightforward like Doom, there's a steeper learning curve which only a fraction of people are willing to engage with, so regrettably, great classics like Duke Nukem 3D and Blood barely have any custom content at all compared to Doom.
Pioneers of FPS games. They are the reason I chose programming and got a computer science degree. Seeing them trying to fix a stream gives me a strange comfort. I suddenly don't feel like missing out and being left behind anymore.
Joe Lieberman was wrong, i didnt end up a serial killer after all.
I remember when this was new. Holy crap I'm old.
TANKS FOR DA MEMORIES!
This was historic. Saw it was live but had to come back and watch
I'm watching this in my late 30's as a realization dream seeing idols as a young PC gamer back then. Speaking about my favorite games I used to play in literally YEARS (and now too). This is amazing, infinite thanks. Greetings from an italian guy living in China
Bygone's be bygone's. Herald in a new era of Carmack and Romero collaborating or even working together on a new project that will blow everyone away. Get the band back together, all of em!
Maybe let’s get Hall back too.
Amazing! I never thought we would see the 2 Johns together. Thank you very much
I have very vivid and unique memories of playing each of the major Id games.
My brother would bring me to his college and let me play games on a computer in his honor's program's computer room. I played Wolfenstein 3D for hours. I was a Castle Wolfenstein fan--and playing its successor in 3D was amazing. I remember my brother teaching me about following the left or right wall in order to find my way out of a maze.
With Doom, I lived on a military base in these tiny duplexes. Both my dad and my friend's dad had to stick their computers in very cramped closets. I remember playing at my friend's house--the closet got so hot from the computer. We kept the door open so we could both watch the game while we played--some of us from out in the hall. I don't recall being blown away by the graphics, but the music was great and it had great atmosphere (where the graphics probably had a big part). I remember trying to make levels with my friends--it was difficult to get the floor & ceiling heights correct and sensible.
I remember when a math teacher brought his computer to school and showed the class a newly released game called Quake on his room's projector. It blew me away--we could run smooth 3D graphics on home computer!? Not too long afterwards my dad helped me assemble my first own 8086 based computer and he ran a coaxial network throughout the house. That's when I first started playing networked games, mostly with my dad. I remember it felt easier to make levels for Quake. But very important to me was the availability of QuakeC--which I first tried to learn before I had learned C. I recently played Quake with multiplayer co-op enabled; the first time I died in game, I got an immediate & very emotional memory of playing it with my dad.
It was really nice seeing the two John's at peace & speaking jovially: both Carmack & Romero come together to do a stream on the subject of Doom's legacy, but I do find it weird that the only team member other than a quick Jay Wilbur cameo who was brought up during the stream was Tim Willits. Tim had limited involvement with Doom as his career was just starting out then. Sure he contributed to Ultimate Doom & Master Levels for Doom II, but that was later. No direct mention of Tom Hall or Sandy Petersen as designers? That surprised me. No mention of Adrian Carmack's amazing artwork or Kevin Cloud who is still a key person at id Software to this day?
Romero got Tom for the most recent stream posted to the channel from 5 months ago.
John Carmack still doesn’t look a day over 39. I remember as a kid thinking John looked ridiculously young
I have so many good memories of experiencing Doom with my dad in 1993. I'm still greatly enjoying it to this day, fighting for my life in Eviternity, Sigil II is next on the list! I have a very high appreciation for both of you and the whole 1990's ID team.
Awesome seeing these two legends together again and listening to their stories about our beloved game. Hopefully I’ll be able to see them in person at some point at QuakeCon
Thank you so much for not only one of the finest pc games ever, but in wider gaming. The quality is what stands the test of time. Doom was the first time I upgraded a PC, then it was Quake. It's a joy to revisit both of them every so often and I will be for as long as I can still play video games. You've been generous to the community and set high standards that are so rarely met these days. Best to you and thanks again for such wonderful memories.
Happy thirtieth anniversary of one of the most influential games
Absolutely awesome! Thanks for making it!
Ah. As was once foretold by the prophecy: the 30-year convergence of the Johns.
I love to hear conversations like this. Thanks so much for coming together to have this fireside chat and delve into the history of these incredibly formative games!
The new follower alert messages were pretty hilarious though. Some of those names... I can see why a lot of streamers don't allow alerts for new followers! 😅
This is like if the Beatles had got together again!
Both Paul and Ringo
So great to see the 2 most legendary John's back together. Love both of these guys. Thanks for the amazing games, hours and hours of fun i had with them (mostly as a kid lo), and an IP that led to my favorite game of all time,, DOOM Eternal.
Wow 30 years ago.......I was in middle school living on the American embassy in Moscow and my friend's dad got this on his PC. Bad ass game still.
Awesome chat and thx for creating such a great game...played the hell out of Doom back in 1993 on my 486sx 😎
Me too and I wished I had 486dx :D it made a major difference in DooM
@@Vestu my neighbor had a 486dx so i went over there almost every day to play Doom 2 😂
Thanks so much for this talk, guys.
I've been following these two since they were writing .plan files, and I think this is the first time I've seen them interact directly.
Great staff. Doom was the first game I played, sitting on my dad's lap in 94. Thank you.
30 years of great memories, long live DOOM!
I was only able to sit in and catch the final 10 minutes of the stream. I am happy as hell that I had a chance to sit in with the two legendary Johns. You know whatever sour stuff that happen in the past doesn't matter guys, I read the book. You guys are my heros honestly. DooM will always be the coolest game that anyone has ever made, my childhood was obsessed with it. Hell I'm sitting and writing a text no one will read but I got to get it out there. Thank you guys so much. I just wish John Carmack was back building Engines because the man has the gift. It is sorely missed. I love you guys truly.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart! 🍀❤
You are true legends!💫
Thanks John for hosting this! And for Sigil 2, great timing!
I adored all the games that had special manuals. Particularly some Fallout 2 release had a thick booklet filled like a journal of the vault dweller and even had things like food recipes in the theme. Then there was Metal Gear Solid with amazing unique artwork and it showed you anything and everything about the game, the cd case for the game even had a radio frequency you needed in-game in the back of the case. Today those manuals are really appreciated because it was like you had a piece of the game world come true, you had something bleeding over and you could dive inside the fantasy world a bit.
Some music artists have released similar bits with their albums in the past decade or so, a little coloring book or whatever they come up with. And that's fantastic creativity on the artist's part (be it video game or music or movie or anything) to peek into the head of the fan and figuring out what would delight them and improve their experience even more despite them not knowing they could wish for such thing. In fact my mind was blown when I found out Steven Wilson released a concept album about a person who had died and was in the news back then, the curious profiling on her made Wilson imagine and tell a story. But it didn't end there, after the release of that concept album he kept this anonymous website up that was the character of the album blogging like any existing person. Things like that are magical.
Then there's the thing where people to this date push speedrunning Doom and Quake, they really, really want to figure out everything and be THE person on the top in THAT game. It's so special to people and when you see a youtube channel like decino's that's extremely dedicated to just figuring out the engine on its tiniest quirks and details, 1/1000000 bugs and occurences, people are so passionate about those two games. And despite Johns saying how challenging it was to design levels on Quake, seeing mods like Arcane Dimensions is mind blowing. What that engine could give if you had enough time and vision.
And the music thing Carmack mentioned is not wrong. Music makes the game, it's the final nail on the coffing. Like you have great games with unnoticeable soundtracks, but anyone who's ever played Doom remembers the soundtrack. No doubt about that. You remember how the menu was like smacking a hard thing and then you hear the door sound when the level starts and the midi song hits. I don't think anyone had experienced something of that impact. It hits you just right. You can't forget that first touch on Doom. Of course given that it was inspired by the top rock and metal hits of the time, gave it a real vibe and it wasn't just video game noise, it was something oddly familiar to people. I think that was part of the magic, it found common ground with people while being different from other peers. And fit the mood just right, it told the same story as another layer, it hinted at what you were feeling in the level. You don't need to do more than say E1M1, and you don't need to search anything more than "E1M1" and the first thing youtube gives you is the song from the soundtrack, that's how iconic it is to people. Like ask any metal musician if they can play E1M1 or if they remember it.
"No one wants to read a book in the middle of a video game" and then came Doom 2016 and Eternal with cutscenes and endless books of text. But I don't think those games would've been released if they didn't push in the early days to release the source code. It was such an insanely important decision that no one else saw really. To give out your hit product for free to do whatever you'd like with it. Absolutely that's what made the game carry to today, people are STILL buying it on Steam and playing it for the first time. My first playthrough (I played some of it as a kid even though I didn't have a pc) was around maybe 2018! And it was a fantastic experience, you can't just make a game like that outdated which is what shocked me. I would play it again too! Which I can't say about most games these days and at this age, I don't have the interest or time and rarely a game feels that good (and that much like hop in and have fun for a moment and hop out). And it was still scary, it made me anxious! Even playing Sigil it's like rushing through some maps and after 15-30 minutes closing the game like sighing in relief "damn I made it that far, I'm now allowed to take a break". It makes you sit on the edge of your chair. I don't know how. Clearly there's a lot to say about making the game you want to see.
If you ever have a chance to get Carmack's time for another sit down and chatting about the decisions made when making id games, that'd be wonderful. Like he hinted that he would enjoy talking more about some things. It's such a treat to have this.
Happy anniversary to Doom and the legends who made such a legendary game!
I can totally relate to Romero's comment regarding multiplayer. A mate and myself both had the game in around '96 or '97 and for a number of weeks we tried to play over a modem. I had installed another phone line in the home in anticipation. I'd phone him on the home phone and we made all types of changes to the modem settings but could never work it out, we were both pretty much computer illiterate. Anyway one day after making a change, me phoning his modem with mine and listening to all the line noises, bang, connection. We flogged Doom, flogged it. I'll never forget that first moment. Doom was a magical time and then Quake.
History is being made right now gentlemen. Rip and tear. Rip and tear.
#doom30
Cringe
Zoomer cringe
@RustieFawn it's literally history being made
@@GMOTP5738nah
God I still miss those boxes. I loved reading the manuals from Starcraft, reading the lore. God I miss having those books.
Stil play the first two DOOMs to this day, thankyou Carmack and Romero!