When you upgraded the Bluchers 3inch guns the game unchecked the autoloader and DP toggles, so those guns will be a lot less usefull than you expect. I guess in a couple months when it leaves the dock the crew will find out that someone made off with a bunch of money that was supposed to have been spent on better guns :P Edit: I also noticed that the graf spee doesnt have autoloaders on the 3inch guns even though you gave them 500 rounds of ammo
I personally like the Konigsberg design. Although I have never been very good at making cheaper ships. I tend to always build more on the exspensive side, much to the dismay of parliament.
Others will do thorough analysis that I usually see with your videos Dickie, but I must say, I feel that this fleet development is pointing to the next war being far more lethal than the last. I am enjoying the discussion around building a CL suited for air-defense, which nowadays if a fairly common platform that certain navies within NATO do. BTW, I know you are a little on the fence about putting helicopters out there - but for the Scharnhorst to carry a few to augment search patterns or provide some addition firepower from a few airframes is if anything, a fun idea. Many videos ago I was scolded by someone else for this idea but hey we play to have fun! Perhaps it comes down to, if you had that available tonnage not being spent on helicopters - where would it go instead?
Supposedly helicopters placed on ships other than AV does not get ASMs at all. But scouting is essential in engagements without aircrafts. When you get enemies with missiles on radar, they're launching already.
Von der Tann. Similar that my doctrine is the main HSSM launchers are DDs. Some of late game BX dont carry HSSM at all. The reason being they are, in my doctrine, there for the heavy gun fighting after the missile exchanges.
YAY SAM turrets! Was wondering when that would pop up. mid 1953.... sounds about right. As for your Helicopters, they will only get better at Tech improves. At the moment they are just modern Seaplanes (except im pretty sure the ship doesn't need to STOP completely to pick it up). Your Scientists were on the verge of giving them ASW capability, which is nice. Konigsberg vs Rostock, May as well go with the Konigsberg if you can afford it, its not THAT much more expensive.
@@RvTWargames I know that feeling all too well from Airships Conquer the Skies. (fun game, highly recommend) Tries to make "cheap" ship.... the ship is ither CRAP or more expensive then it really needs to be.
OK, gonna ask you to make a bit of commitment, FOR SCIENCE!!! If you go to war, please very carefully look at your missile ships after battles to see how many SAMs they have left/actually fired! I found that being in Admiral Mode, my DDs either died with torps in the tubes, OR, they never fired all their torps. So I was able to decrease the amount of torps carried and do other stuff on the design when I got them right-sized. Which is the Konigsberg vs Rostock: will the Konigsberg ever fire off all those missiles or not? I feel they MAY since these are gonna be used by the game if you face aircraft, vs maybe holding back torpedoes unless I black flag them. BUT, it might just be TOO many and if you find only half are getting fired, then we all know not to just put way too many on a ship! (My game out in this era I just don't have a war or real prospects for one, and hadn't paid any attention in the last war ;-(
I'm just out of war in missile age (If you can name such maintaining submarine blocade for three years after sinking Russian Pacific Squadron). Most ships had default 20 sam and I haven't run out of them once. I just wish to have more ssm. My new refits tend to even go lower in lsam for just self defence. But whole war consisted of two battles where my aviation wiped the field and couple convoy raids where opposition was limited to few DDs. Besides sporadic land based aircraft, there wasn't much to shoot at besides surface targets.
@@antonisauren8998 Good to know! But now I wonder if your opponents had had carriers, or at least lots more of land based A/C that could get to the battles, what would have happened. But yeah, that would factor in to what you think is a needed amount--who and where and their fleet--which may not be huge amounts needed like on the Konigsberg.
@@pterrok5495 They got two or three carriers, but in both cases it was 1 vs 6. Bad battle generator rolls for them. Land based strike aircrafts are almost useless in my experience. AI makes strikes by four plane flights even while having hundreds in range. Bombing airfields into oblivion is trivial.
Regards the the two cruisers options... their role is anti air umbrella for carrier task group yes? In that case lose the SSM as that is not their function. Max out on medium SAMs with 4 or 5” dual-purpose batteries. In that case your could get way the a traditional six thousand tone light cruiser that could still close with damaged foe to dispatch with gunnery. Remember, you talked about taking outthe halt and lame rather than a stand up gun fight between equals.
CL prefer Konisberg though I also should point out you don't have Enhanced Sonar nor ASW Rockets. Personally I don't do HSSM reloads as they are too costly on deck space for what they give you. My main HSSM launchers are DDs not CL. So my doctrine version would have a CL with the 2 x MSAM w 35 each the 4 HSSM but no reloads. Add at least the ASW rockets. You'd have to add ~300 tons displacement to get the 150 tons for the Enhanced Sonar. Making it more of an 8000 ton CL. Feature creep being a thing. However if you dont need the deck space for HSSM reloads you might be able to drop radar ability from 6 to 5 which would free up much tonnage toward the enhanced sonar. So for curiousity... compare from Konisberg no HSSM reloads, add enhanced sonar and ASW rockets. What tonnage and deck space are you at?
@@RvTWargames Ships are like fish, they sell by the pound. Ticking magazine box armor on Konigsberg would net you about 80 tons for no real loss in effective protection, and switching the armor scheme to a narrow flat or narrow sloped can also save a bit weight. Might be almost enough for the ASW suite.
They have no heavy AA guns. SAMs are not counted into that number with separate combat phase to be calculated. Then if they're supposed to be escort AA CL, maybe drop to 5in DP autoloaders? Fixed SSMs could be tricky to fire at the end of formation. Torpedoes also do not have much use besides +2 asw score.
Belly up to the pier boys. The boats are back in town!
Quick off the mark!
When you upgraded the Bluchers 3inch guns the game unchecked the autoloader and DP toggles, so those guns will be a lot less usefull than you expect. I guess in a couple months when it leaves the dock the crew will find out that someone made off with a bunch of money that was supposed to have been spent on better guns :P
Edit: I also noticed that the graf spee doesnt have autoloaders on the 3inch guns even though you gave them 500 rounds of ammo
Oh for goodness sake. The user interface can be most annoying at times.
I raise you 'infuriating' 😊@@RvTWargames
There is an "Up" button now to upgrade the guns. This way you don't have to change the caliber back and forth anymore to get improved guns
Use the save/load template option in the graphics tab. Saves you money, and then you can use the template in all your games.
I personally like the Konigsberg design. Although I have never been very good at making cheaper ships. I tend to always build more on the exspensive side, much to the dismay of parliament.
Others will do thorough analysis that I usually see with your videos Dickie, but I must say, I feel that this fleet development is pointing to the next war being far more lethal than the last. I am enjoying the discussion around building a CL suited for air-defense, which nowadays if a fairly common platform that certain navies within NATO do.
BTW, I know you are a little on the fence about putting helicopters out there - but for the Scharnhorst to carry a few to augment search patterns or provide some addition firepower from a few airframes is if anything, a fun idea. Many videos ago I was scolded by someone else for this idea but hey we play to have fun! Perhaps it comes down to, if you had that available tonnage not being spent on helicopters - where would it go instead?
Supposedly helicopters placed on ships other than AV does not get ASMs at all. But scouting is essential in engagements without aircrafts. When you get enemies with missiles on radar, they're launching already.
New video hell yeah I was waiting for this one, Great video as always man
You're very welcome!
Von der Tann. Similar that my doctrine is the main HSSM launchers are DDs. Some of late game BX dont carry HSSM at all. The reason being they are, in my doctrine, there for the heavy gun fighting after the missile exchanges.
The larger light cruiser definitely.
YAY SAM turrets! Was wondering when that would pop up. mid 1953.... sounds about right. As for your Helicopters, they will only get better at Tech improves. At the moment they are just modern Seaplanes (except im pretty sure the ship doesn't need to STOP completely to pick it up). Your Scientists were on the verge of giving them ASW capability, which is nice.
Konigsberg vs Rostock, May as well go with the Konigsberg if you can afford it, its not THAT much more expensive.
Yeah, it's just really hard designing a good cheap ship when it would be so much better for a little bit more!
@@RvTWargames I know that feeling all too well from Airships Conquer the Skies. (fun game, highly recommend) Tries to make "cheap" ship.... the ship is ither CRAP or more expensive then it really needs to be.
OK, gonna ask you to make a bit of commitment, FOR SCIENCE!!!
If you go to war, please very carefully look at your missile ships after battles to see how many SAMs they have left/actually fired!
I found that being in Admiral Mode, my DDs either died with torps in the tubes, OR, they never fired all their torps. So I was able to decrease the amount of torps carried and do other stuff on the design when I got them right-sized.
Which is the Konigsberg vs Rostock: will the Konigsberg ever fire off all those missiles or not? I feel they MAY since these are gonna be used by the game if you face aircraft, vs maybe holding back torpedoes unless I black flag them. BUT, it might just be TOO many and if you find only half are getting fired, then we all know not to just put way too many on a ship!
(My game out in this era I just don't have a war or real prospects for one, and hadn't paid any attention in the last war ;-(
I'm just out of war in missile age (If you can name such maintaining submarine blocade for three years after sinking Russian Pacific Squadron). Most ships had default 20 sam and I haven't run out of them once. I just wish to have more ssm. My new refits tend to even go lower in lsam for just self defence. But whole war consisted of two battles where my aviation wiped the field and couple convoy raids where opposition was limited to few DDs. Besides sporadic land based aircraft, there wasn't much to shoot at besides surface targets.
@@antonisauren8998 Good to know! But now I wonder if your opponents had had carriers, or at least lots more of land based A/C that could get to the battles, what would have happened.
But yeah, that would factor in to what you think is a needed amount--who and where and their fleet--which may not be huge amounts needed like on the Konigsberg.
@@pterrok5495 They got two or three carriers, but in both cases it was 1 vs 6. Bad battle generator rolls for them. Land based strike aircrafts are almost useless in my experience. AI makes strikes by four plane flights even while having hundreds in range. Bombing airfields into oblivion is trivial.
Regards the the two cruisers options... their role is anti air umbrella for carrier task group yes? In that case lose the SSM as that is not their function. Max out on medium SAMs with 4 or 5” dual-purpose batteries. In that case your could get way the a traditional six thousand tone light cruiser that could still close with damaged foe to dispatch with gunnery. Remember, you talked about taking outthe halt and lame rather than a stand up gun fight between equals.
Go for the max. More offense, defense and self protection for the fleet.
Everyone loved the Konigsberg!
CL prefer Konisberg though I also should point out you don't have Enhanced Sonar nor ASW Rockets.
Personally I don't do HSSM reloads as they are too costly on deck space for what they give you. My main HSSM launchers are DDs not CL. So my doctrine version would have a CL with the 2 x MSAM w 35 each the 4 HSSM but no reloads. Add at least the ASW rockets. You'd have to add ~300 tons displacement to get the 150 tons for the Enhanced Sonar. Making it more of an 8000 ton CL. Feature creep being a thing. However if you dont need the deck space for HSSM reloads you might be able to drop radar ability from 6 to 5 which would free up much tonnage toward the enhanced sonar.
So for curiousity... compare from Konisberg no HSSM reloads, add enhanced sonar and ASW rockets. What tonnage and deck space are you at?
I'll see if I fit it in. Though I'm reluctant to go to 8,000 tons. It was meant to be a cheapo 6,000 ton cruiser.
@@RvTWargames Ships are like fish, they sell by the pound. Ticking magazine box armor on Konigsberg would net you about 80 tons for no real loss in effective protection, and switching the armor scheme to a narrow flat or narrow sloped can also save a bit weight. Might be almost enough for the ASW suite.
I personally like the Konigsberg design.
You and everyone else!
I would go with the Konisberg.
Seems the winner!
It seems you have selected MSAMS for your ships over HSAMS would HSAMS on the CAs or BC be a good idea to give an even larger bubble off AA?
I don't have Heavy SAMs at the moment, only mediums and some SMAs are better than none at this stage.
Königsberg!
If nothing else to tease the Soviets 🙂
The HAA factor is zero on both, is that correct or with SAMS does it not matter?
They have no heavy AA guns. SAMs are not counted into that number with separate combat phase to be calculated. Then if they're supposed to be escort AA CL, maybe drop to 5in DP autoloaders? Fixed SSMs could be tricky to fire at the end of formation. Torpedoes also do not have much use besides +2 asw score.
But that 7500 CL rocks. A ton of bag for the extra few bucks.
Yup. No one loves an economical cruiser.
Konisberg
👍