It was a mistake to disregard those new LJFs so quickly, especially the Ju 222. While the ranges are lower in terms of category, the load for those categories more than makes up for it: The Ju 222 can carry a 500lb bomb to 442nm, the He 191 only to 353nm (25% increase). The Ju 222 can carry a 1000lb bomb to 347nm (31% increase), the He 191 to only 263nm. The Ju 222 can carry a 2000lb bomb to 250nm, while the He 191 can't even get off the deck. Even the Light Load is a marginal increase of 442nm for the Ju 222 vs 438nm (9%), though that's largely negligible. But I know that's not really what LJFs are for. They are dogfighters. So, let's look at the dogfighting stats: Max Speed, Firepower, Maneuverability, and Toughness. The He 191 wins in terms of Max Speed, no doubt... by 20 knots. That's a huge decrease... of 3.2%. Meanwhile, the Ju 222 has just as much Firepower, just as much Toughness, and has a 2-point increase in maneuverability, meaning it's more likely to get the kill. And finally, the Coup de Grace for me is the chance to reroll on the Reliability table. And this time with a second generation of LJF. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure the game takes that into consideration in some form or another, to simulate mature vs innovative technology. And even if not, it's not like it will go down. All in all, I don't think this is a catastrophic mistake; but nonetheless an error IMHO.
Agree. As Im advising in a separate thread I believe the reliability is checked both at the battle start and with each landing. Thus higher reliability will get more sorties. With jets moving so much faster this will matter more as more launches means more landing checks on reliability. Not 100% on the landing reliability check but I believe it to be the case.
It doesn't matter if the new planes dont go as fast or as far if your old ones spend all their time in the workshop, as they say the best ability is availability.
BTW, if you ever need a way to just "burn" your stockpile of money (dodging the Funding decreases for example), their is always building Missile Batteries to defend your Provinces. They like 1000 Bucks a pop while building but they are effective. (I think its like 1 Anti Ship Battery and 4 sam launchers.) YAY a fleet exercise, certainly makes for interesting Data on how your ships may preform in battle if nothing else. OOOOOO so THATS what Missile Torpedo are. Wait, does that mean jets can drop Torpedoes from a safe distance? (relatively speaking, they probably still get hit by sam turrets)
I love running automatic fleet excercises! I told my girlfriend that I was watching the AI fight itself and she asked me why lol. It's just interesresting to see what my lil guys are capabale of without my help
Hey Merry Christmas to you RtV! Thabks for this series, which was holding me up this year :) One small thing I noticed: The refit of CA Gneisenau semms to have the 3inch guns not DP and not autoloading by mistake. Needs a further refit but with the current situation, should probaly only done when it's damaged (ships can go to refit while repairing). Thanks for your exxellent contet and good luck with the war, I really like there your fleet is going!
Huzzah, you now have the German version of ASROC (? - or is this an offensive torpedo? - never got this far), though too late for this war. I think the Baltic should be renamed 'Ostsee' on all maps
Thanks Tom. Feels like a very patchy process as everything is changing, but not all at the same rate! So the changes always feel a bit award and incomplete.
On reliability: I believe reliability is checked at the start of the battle of setting how many are available then also checked every time they land it's reliably check to see if they come down safely. So in battles that are full of repeat strikes and launches you also have repeat landings and reliability matters more and more
Yes. I shold have asked for fresh LJF designs after those were so poor with no gurantee that their reliability would be any better. I need at least parity in performance.
Hmmm, IF the new LJF was Good or better reliability, I'd argue it IS better than your current Poor one, even with slightly lower stats. I mean, like 3% off max speed, and less than 10% off the range (36 miles) of the Heinkel I would have taken, for being able to fly? Yes please! So I would have taken the chance and seen if reliability worked out after having it for awhile. Hopefully you get offers from private builders, or can get into an alliance and buy one! Wow! Can't believe you ran an exercise! Yeah, I did it once and never again! ;-) OH! If I get the gumption, I could do an exercise and see what it says about SAM usage! (BUT, I think I'd have to make some new builds using more SAMs and such to do it properly. So it'll take some time, but I'll see if that reveals anything. Will update if/when I get some sort of data.) Wow! Finland and war! Could use an ally about now! ;-) 13K for the exercise and the budget is over 8K in the hole--spending like a drunken sailor! BUT, Elite crews will show the French what-for! So hopefully you get lots of war cash incoming!
OK, 1960 GB has some cash and no real tensions; designed a new CL named SAMMY that has 6x6" guns--NOT DP, and then 2 SAML(35) and 2 SAMM(35). Idea being that these will just shoot planes with their missiles. So 70 Light and 70 Medium SAMs waiting to go! FINALLY got them built and ran an exercise with 2 CV and 2 SAMMYs vs 2 CV and 2 SAMMYs. The CVs should total around 130 A/C per force. Very disappointing results; went to run it again and was told I could only run one exercise per YEAR! D'oh! So had to get to January and now SAVE the game in another slot! Phew--NOW ready to run the test again. L 1 1 4 0 L 2 0 2 1 M 4 4 3 2 M 2 22 3 ======= T 9 7 11 7 What those are is how many each launcher shot, on the ships that got found. (In all 4 cases, one force found the other and was not found in return, using auto-play on the entire combat.) In two cases both CVs were sunk due to raging fires and in the other 2 cases took they took minor and heavy fire damage but survived. Battles ran the max of 800 minutes. Crews were not very good and really should have damage control being a special training in this era! ;-p But yeah, a max of 4 missiles out of a single launcher means that the default 20 is pretty generous, I think! Though one ship DID launch 11 total across all launchers in one battle. Oh yeah--if any of those missiles HIT a plane I don't know! I wasn't watching the battle unfold where it might have said something--but the logs certainly didn't say anything other than when the tubes got reloaded, and there was no breakdown of aircraft lost to missiles. (If I get a LOT of time I may try and run the battle instead of auto and see what happens--but no promises on that at all! ;-)
It was a mistake to disregard those new LJFs so quickly, especially the Ju 222. While the ranges are lower in terms of category, the load for those categories more than makes up for it:
The Ju 222 can carry a 500lb bomb to 442nm, the He 191 only to 353nm (25% increase). The Ju 222 can carry a 1000lb bomb to 347nm (31% increase), the He 191 to only 263nm. The Ju 222 can carry a 2000lb bomb to 250nm, while the He 191 can't even get off the deck. Even the Light Load is a marginal increase of 442nm for the Ju 222 vs 438nm (9%), though that's largely negligible.
But I know that's not really what LJFs are for. They are dogfighters. So, let's look at the dogfighting stats: Max Speed, Firepower, Maneuverability, and Toughness. The He 191 wins in terms of Max Speed, no doubt... by 20 knots. That's a huge decrease... of 3.2%. Meanwhile, the Ju 222 has just as much Firepower, just as much Toughness, and has a 2-point increase in maneuverability, meaning it's more likely to get the kill.
And finally, the Coup de Grace for me is the chance to reroll on the Reliability table. And this time with a second generation of LJF. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure the game takes that into consideration in some form or another, to simulate mature vs innovative technology. And even if not, it's not like it will go down.
All in all, I don't think this is a catastrophic mistake; but nonetheless an error IMHO.
Agree. As Im advising in a separate thread I believe the reliability is checked both at the battle start and with each landing. Thus higher reliability will get more sorties. With jets moving so much faster this will matter more as more launches means more landing checks on reliability. Not 100% on the landing reliability check but I believe it to be the case.
It doesn't matter if the new planes dont go as fast or as far if your old ones spend all their time in the workshop, as they say the best ability is availability.
This series convinced me to buy the game during steam sale, never knew excel graphics could be so addicting!
It's amazing what happens when you start to 'see' beyond the graphics, and start to care for your creations.
@@RvTWargames You know what they say, graphics dont matter if the subject in indepth enough
BTW, if you ever need a way to just "burn" your stockpile of money (dodging the Funding decreases for example), their is always building Missile Batteries to defend your Provinces. They like 1000 Bucks a pop while building but they are effective. (I think its like 1 Anti Ship Battery and 4 sam launchers.) YAY a fleet exercise, certainly makes for interesting Data on how your ships may preform in battle if nothing else.
OOOOOO so THATS what Missile Torpedo are. Wait, does that mean jets can drop Torpedoes from a safe distance? (relatively speaking, they probably still get hit by sam turrets)
I always look forward to the annual reviews lol
I love running automatic fleet excercises! I told my girlfriend that I was watching the AI fight itself and she asked me why lol. It's just interesresting to see what my lil guys are capabale of without my help
In this case the answer turned out to be: make no sense whatsoever!
Hey Merry Christmas to you RtV! Thabks for this series, which was holding me up this year :)
One small thing I noticed: The refit of CA Gneisenau semms to have the 3inch guns not DP and not autoloading by mistake. Needs a further refit but with the current situation, should probaly only done when it's damaged (ships can go to refit while repairing). Thanks for your exxellent contet and good luck with the war, I really like there your fleet is going!
Yeah. The game is NO HELP in checking 'did you really mean not to have DP and autoloading in the 50s' sort of thing. Thanks for noticing.
Huzzah, you now have the German version of ASROC (? - or is this an offensive torpedo? - never got this far), though too late for this war.
I think the Baltic should be renamed 'Ostsee' on all maps
Not sure what they mean by missile torpedoes. ASROC sounds as good as any.
@RvT wargames Merry Christmas to you, my good sir. Thank for a lot of entertainment this year. ❤
Thank you, you're very welcome. It's been entertaining for me to do with the great community support I get.
It's very interesting to watch the development of the fleet in the jet era, I'm looking forward to the release of new episodes😌
Thanks Tom. Feels like a very patchy process as everything is changing, but not all at the same rate! So the changes always feel a bit award and incomplete.
On reliability: I believe reliability is checked at the start of the battle of setting how many are available then also checked every time they land it's reliably check to see if they come down safely. So in battles that are full of repeat strikes and launches you also have repeat landings and reliability matters more and more
Yes. I shold have asked for fresh LJF designs after those were so poor with no gurantee that their reliability would be any better. I need at least parity in performance.
Those light jet fighter prototypes had double the bomb load
Still not good enough to compensate for the drops in speed and range.
Hmmm, IF the new LJF was Good or better reliability, I'd argue it IS better than your current Poor one, even with slightly lower stats. I mean, like 3% off max speed, and less than 10% off the range (36 miles) of the Heinkel I would have taken, for being able to fly? Yes please! So I would have taken the chance and seen if reliability worked out after having it for awhile. Hopefully you get offers from private builders, or can get into an alliance and buy one!
Wow! Can't believe you ran an exercise! Yeah, I did it once and never again! ;-)
OH! If I get the gumption, I could do an exercise and see what it says about SAM usage! (BUT, I think I'd have to make some new builds using more SAMs and such to do it properly. So it'll take some time, but I'll see if that reveals anything. Will update if/when I get some sort of data.)
Wow! Finland and war! Could use an ally about now! ;-)
13K for the exercise and the budget is over 8K in the hole--spending like a drunken sailor! BUT, Elite crews will show the French what-for! So hopefully you get lots of war cash incoming!
OK, 1960 GB has some cash and no real tensions; designed a new CL named SAMMY that has 6x6" guns--NOT DP, and then 2 SAML(35) and 2 SAMM(35). Idea being that these will just shoot planes with their missiles. So 70 Light and 70 Medium SAMs waiting to go!
FINALLY got them built and ran an exercise with 2 CV and 2 SAMMYs vs 2 CV and 2 SAMMYs. The CVs should total around 130 A/C per force. Very disappointing results; went to run it again and was told I could only run one exercise per YEAR! D'oh! So had to get to January and now SAVE the game in another slot! Phew--NOW ready to run the test again.
L 1 1 4 0
L 2 0 2 1
M 4 4 3 2
M 2 22 3
=======
T 9 7 11 7
What those are is how many each launcher shot, on the ships that got found. (In all 4 cases, one force found the other and was not found in return, using auto-play on the entire combat.)
In two cases both CVs were sunk due to raging fires and in the other 2 cases took they took minor and heavy fire damage but survived. Battles ran the max of 800 minutes. Crews were not very good and really should have damage control being a special training in this era! ;-p
But yeah, a max of 4 missiles out of a single launcher means that the default 20 is pretty generous, I think! Though one ship DID launch 11 total across all launchers in one battle.
Oh yeah--if any of those missiles HIT a plane I don't know! I wasn't watching the battle unfold where it might have said something--but the logs certainly didn't say anything other than when the tubes got reloaded, and there was no breakdown of aircraft lost to missiles. (If I get a LOT of time I may try and run the battle instead of auto and see what happens--but no promises on that at all! ;-)
What?