Matra was (is) a defense company, they also made Rockets. In the 70s and 80s they worked together with Simca (Later Talbot) and built the Bagheera and successor, the Murena. Both with 3 seats, plastic body and Simca and Peugeot engines). Matra would go on to develop and build the Renault Espace, the first European minivan.
@@paulds65 yupp here in India, our French fighter jets have matra missiles. It's like saab lol. Both are dead car manufacturers that thrive as defence manufacturers.
Honestly, MW has done some damage to community. I feel like it’s now more entrenched in PURITY. Kinda bums me out since anytime I’ve talked about my idea to buy a roller and hot rod it I’ve had friends and social media heads just absolutely shit on me. It gives me Eugenics vibes 😢
They were much more that a coach builder. They were an engineering consulting company, in the same vein as what Lotus later became. They built winning Formula 1 and Le Mans cars. They were also exceptionally innovative, having built what can arguably be called teh first mid-engined sports car. the first European mini vans, the first European SUVs and much much more.
Small world! I work with the Jan that Jason mentioned around 38mins in and have seen photos of a young Cammisa in his prime with his Scirocco. He appreciated your shout out. Great dude. 👍🏻
18:43 As an auto tech who constantly fixes clapped out shitboxes all day, this is why I have 2 P cars. I don't want to deal with a pain in the ass. A breakdown is not my idea of a good time on a weekend. They offer great performance without the bullshit of something more exotic or classic. Need parts? Build an entire car from Pelican or Suncoast, VS. trying to get parts for DTS' Citroen. I'm glad Jason finally admitted that there is another reason aside from lack of originality.
That craze seems to have screwed up the market for every air-cooled model from the first 3.2 through the 964. The 993 used to have a big price premium as the "last, ultimate" example. Now, 933s often seem to actually be priced lower than the earlier cars.
My local cars and coffee has gotten so popular that unless you show up 30 minutes before the gate opens you're probably not getting in. Imagine a line of air coolers all idling waiting to get in to park on the lawn. These days id rather go for a morning drive.
FFS I was listening to your rant about Talbot/Matra Begheera and/or Murena and HAD TO get on RUclipss to comment. Yes it's both and I'd definitely watch that. I stumbled on THREE of these parked on the curbside in the Netherlands last year. Gotta love the crazy Dutch people. And by the way, I DEMAND revelations on TALBOT/MATRA/SIMCA RANCHO. If being triple-brand (!) car is not enough (spoiler alert: it is), it's also a grandfather of all MPVs/crossovers/SUVs and the fake it till you make it overland movement. And it has a greenhouse like a Disco. Glorious car.
An episode about all the products of Matra would be interesting. Starting with the 1960's Djet mid-engined car, the first European Mini vans (Renault Espace), the first European SUV (Talbot Matra Rancho), the three-seat sport cars Murena and Bagheera, the first luxury SUV coupe (Renault Avantime) as well as the F1 and Le Man winning cars...
A friend bought a 1999 Tacoma v6 4wd Xtra cab new, and kept it like new, and rarely drove it. He had the illness of needing to have "perfect spaces", which this was one of, and he looked at it like an investment. One day, he drove it to work in the snow. Upon arriving he decided to back it into a parking space. He got pedantic about how it was parked, as was common here there was a lot of ice build up everywhere, and upon his third attempt to alingn the vehicle to his liking the rear tires went over the Parking Stop. On the other side of the Parking block was more snow/ice, and a steeper 3ft slope leading to a wall of a building. So, once the tires got over the block, there was no stopping the truck before, BAM the wall, lol. It crunched a tail light and that fende. It wasn't that bad, and probably could have been repaired to near perfection. Especially since he worked the frontnof a high end body shop. But no, the truck was sold, within a month, unrepaired. Fun eh? 😀
Yup. The 2nd episode of The Carmudgeon Show way back when was basically titled "The Porsche 911 isn't as exciting as you think" In it, Hyphen argued he bought a 911 to be different and Jason called him out because buying a 911 is the POLAR OPPOSITE of being different.
@@kjyu that’s fair.. I love that Cammisa seems to be very open minded when it comes to cars (I’m not, at all) but to be objective about Porsche is something I’ve very rarely seen from anyone.
I loved Hyphen’s license plate frame posts. It was very entertaining. I would only put the actual selling dealer on one of my vintage cars. It took me 10 years to find a Phil Smart BMW (Seattle) license plate frame and until then, I just ran the plate. No Vasek Polak plate frames unless your car was sold there. No posing. And yes, I have thought way too much about this.
My car was sold in Bevery Hills in '87, and has holes in the center console for one of the first gigantic cell phones. You've just talked me into reaching out to the dealer to see if they have license plate frames!
my grand parents drove a white matra simca bagheera s and a dark red honda S800 coupe. He had the Matra converted to right hand drive They were so glamorous. He was a sculptor
That’s better, thanks. Please do an episode on Matra - the 1970s Matra V12 Le Mans cars had the best sound ever! A Matra episode where you’re both on peyote would be extra good. Derek, you’d like my 1:64 diecast car collection, it aligns well with your interests…
Thank u, nice the hear more of DTS. JC, yup me feel same way when timing belt on a Honda is due, got one coming up on a SOHC V6. On the rear engined bettles, agree it is a safe choice, wish more of them were just driven more often, than kept polished/stored. Plus more were made so the masses can enjoy them often. Great show
I live like 20 miles from where the Porsche show took place and am fairly connected online yet had absolutely NO idea this show was happening. I would have loved to attend, had there been a way to attend. I didn't know about it until after if happened. Not great. I guess I'll stick to Radwood :)
I hate new trend of "enthusiast" who likes the car because of what it represents than how it drives. Although there are some owners who love Porsche because how they drive, I see more and more Porsche owner who buys them because of perceived perception of being enthusiast driver who love driving. All they know is stupid option codes and paint codes and it's always pain for me to watch them talk about how Porsche is great because it doesn't depreciate
This is also a thing with zoomer girls who buy Miatas and then film themselves driving around for "vibes" to lure in orbiters, and they never actually talk about the car or driving. It's basically just "car girl is my personality" aka "Porsche is my personality". My dad does the same thing with his Corvette lol some people are just not nuanced thinkers
@@thegamingguy1 I think every car brand has that, and it's just that Miata, Corvettes and Porsche are good at making car "livable" and that attracts these people who wants like driving but in reality doesn't view car more than a drivable luxury handbag
I was fortunate enough to own a 76, 84, and a 87 911 when they could be bought for average Joe’s money. Even back in the 90’s when people would see you in a 911 they automatically assumed you to be a DB and would make snide remarks like “must be nice”. My 911 replacement is a 65 Corvair Corsa and when people see that they give me a thumbs up. I’m with you Derek I would much rather have several cool cars which is why my daily is a W124 400E, a Citroen CX turbo, a 71 Beetle with a Subaru 2.5, and the above mentioned Corvair.
Corvairs are underrated, I especially liked how mine handled on gravel. Once you've thrown the clark's catalog at it, they'll hang with anything from that era.
Also, we're seeing the same thing with the Porsche "scene" that we saw start with VWs a decade or so ago. Individuality from a menu. Lots of people who want to look a certain way and show up and park and have people look at their cars. There's just a lot more money now.
Top curmudgeonery and enjoyable but Luft-slagging is misplaced... Paid just above $100 for *both* days, free parking, excellent transportation/organization/food, saw really cool cars in great backgrounds and was only stuck 5 min on 37 on my way back both days... Good times ! Stupid prices of air cooled cars aren't Luft's fault.... Oh, and Matra is a French defense contractor (missiles and stuff) that also ventured into F1, endurance and car making in the 70s. They made cool entries that won Le Mans in the 70s, and it' s *only THE best sounding V12* in the world (debate that, I dare you). Also made a Matra Rancho that was a cool French range rover on the cheap.
Feels like we can't have nice things like Porsches because vapid status seekers rush in and buy them and elevate values in a feedback loop of empty boasting, and people who actually like and care about the thing are pushed out. ~20 years ago before Porsche values went crazy it was a much more likeable and honest (albeit often quite pedantic) community and fanbase IMO. These days way too much of the conversation is taken over by investment values, speculation, and what fancy watch pairs best with your Porsche collection...gross
To be fair I'll take that then the fuckboi ricers with the Supreme t shirt that chops up a 964 into a gaudy RWB for Instagram.... At least the investor is preserving the car to a degree.
Totally agree with Derek on the Singers...I hate that they are gobbling up 964s and turning them into un-obtanium. The 964 is fantastic looking era between the classic 911 and the shaved nose, too modern looking 993.
The Talbot-Matra Jason was looking for is the Murena. It followed the Bagheera and was powered by 4 cylinder engines cranking out 92 bhp (1.6L) and 142bhp (2.2L). 8.4 sec to 60mph Top speed 127mph
I used to see Matra Bagheras/Muranas in Italy (Friuli) in the early 90s pretty often. To my 10 year old eyes it may as well had been a Pantera or Merak.
After 17 years of owning my present Porsche it seems to always like people. The older I get, the more I hate people. Fewer shows, more driving away from others.
A whole episode on the single-marque car show (and Porsche at that) without mention of Rennsport Reunion? C'mon, at least that one has a crap ton of cool shit to see, watch, and listen to throughout the weekend. But stepping back, I've met most of my closest friends through car stuff and motorsport - Sometimes the sheet metal is only half of the experience.
I've insured a dozen cars and a classic Chris Craft with Hagerty over the last 30 years. I put two cars with them 2 years ago.I have no tickets or accidents ever. I have never made an insurance claim. When the renewal came for year 2, the rate had been increased 100%.Still I stayed with them. Then I got the Year 3 renewal...again a 100% increase over Year 2. I am done with Hagerty now in favor of Grundy, who offered a rate that was 30% of what Hagerty was extorting.
Jason speaking about VW shows and drivers reminded me of the New Dimensions show of 2003, where the R32 was debuted, and yes, we drove like absolute a-holes. I mean, it was the MKIV era.
A revelations about Matra itself, or *sny* Matra car would be amazing. They are possibly weirder than Citroen but with more humble underpinnings. (Mainly Talbot and Renault iirc). And way too European for American tastes
Complains that about people noticing stickers aren't period. 2 mins later Complains singer wheels are too big for period 😆 jks aside love the content guys
Surprisingly I'd say the venn diagram of people interested in the Roadster definitely has more enthusiasts in it than other Teslas. Heck, I like those, think they're sub zero and they're badged *Tesla*; I'd rather put the proverbial tongue in a cheek than think about those cars at all. The Model S might've made the grade but I think the Roadster is the far cooler car. Z1 vibes...even if it isn't really all that gimmicky in concept
9:05 - "There's this culture of sorta, like..." 🤔 Perhaps _try-hard_ is the ideal label to give those characters. 16:25 - (Puts tongue in cheek, for those viewers who are hearing impaired, or that just don't listen. 🙉) 26:02 - Multiple of that car, is _Prii_ .
I am curious when the friend bought the 911 off BAT? Your Ferrari and Lotus in todays market would be more than 70k. The Ferrari starting in the 40's and the Lotus starting mid 30's.
I think the ownership experience of a 911G is going to be a lot more expensive for Jason's friend than is being discussed. EVERYTHING has gone throught the roof in the last 2-3 years. Work that was $15K a few years ago is $30K now, and climbing. Depending on how rough "rough" is, this friend owner can very easily be into $50K+ just to get the car in reasonable shape. Some parts are increasingly NOT available and there are fewer experienced mechanics every year. If you can't do your own work, a 911 is now a VERY costly car. 944 Turbo - that's the move today, and fully RADwood-approved
@50:43 : When did you drive the cars? If Rental Car Adam Sandler was driving the red one post-Aparteid Chad's roadster stunt that re-inserted the Roadster into public consciousness, that would be the explanation.
Great episode Jason. Love that you actually call out some of these bay area Porsche assholes. As someone who's much younger than the people who come to these car shows, i sure do hope that by the time i have worked and earned enough to buy a 997 GT2(yes its turbocharged, i don't care. It's the modern underdog. Everybody liked the GT3 better. It probably was. There's just something exciting to me about a actual mezger motor, because remember the mezger was always turboed in racing form, with a manual, the 997 shape and size, which i thing is perfect. And also the fact that you can probably die in it if you turn of tc.)that people start to appreciate other weird shit like iso grifos with chevy v8's and 50's abarths, all of which gordon murray owns lol.Also love the gt2 because of the exploits of a certain rob 'lonman' kenworthy. If you know you know.
This might all be a West Coast thing. I don't get any of this vibe at all on the East Coast, though admittedly the BaT crowd tends to ruin every marque everywhere.
Mr. Shirt and Mr. - , I need help finding my dream car. I love manuals but for an every day car I'd like something quiet. So I've been trying to find a car that is manual, flagship levels of quiet and comfortable, and preferably naturally aspirated, although I'd tolerate supercharging. So far the closest thing I've been able to find is a blackwing, if they ever get cheap, or swap an early panamera since they were offered with a manual, but that would be an obscene amount of work just to figure out the software. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help.
OK, feel free to laugh at the idea, and yeah, I know they'd never do it... But if I had truly filthy amounts of idle lucre, one of the many absurd things I would like to do is bring a Karmann Ghia and a 2.5L Polo engine to Singer and have them give it the full treatment.
By that logic every ICE sports car is just an overpriced Lada... There is much more to the taycan than a model 3 rip off. the only thing those two got in common, besdies the number of doors and wheels is that they are electric.
@@leviathan5207 The F are you talking about? Do you mean 400kg overweight by "much more to it"? Add a 2.5k suspension upgrade to a Model 3 Performance and it equals or beats a thrice the price Taycan Turbo in every single metric (including passenger and luggage space, making the typical Taycan vs. Model S comparison dumb), apart from interior materials - those feel probably a grand or two more upscale in the Porsche - make sure you don't get the standard plastic dash and opt for the optional full leather though.. Alternatively: If you buy a base Taycan here you have to spend almost 12k€ on options before you get what's standard in a Model 3 for half the money with more power and AWD.... Is it worth 10% more? - probably; 20%? maybe; 100-200%? F that noise...! But you made the point of the episode quite well. Branding is strong and the cars used to be great and good value back in the day..
@@NO3V have never owned a taycan but a Model 3 is no where near any Porsche I have been in in terms of interior build quality and quality of materials...that alone can account for a good chunk of th price difference... Also by your logic, you can take a taycan, put a great aftermarket suspension on it and it can basically compete with electric supercars/hypercars... Almost all high power electric cars are basically the same in acceleration and such after you get into the the really high power configurations....
The real difference is that the Porsche will do the performance out of the box without the need to upgrade brakes, suspension, etc to match the Model3 or Model S. Also the reason the Taycan is compare to the Model S is because of the overall dimension of the vehicle - but you are accurate in that in terms of actual usable space, the Taycan is closer to the Model 3 than the S.
@@triaxe-mmb Weeeeeell.. "Does the performance out of the box" needs a few asterisks. You'll never see one in a review or as a test drive car (believe me, I asked and never heard back...) but a base Taycan comes with 326hp and 2,125 kg, with the smaller battery, without AWD, without air suspension, without four wheel steer, without PCCB, without PASM, without PTV, without Servo Plus, without Sport Chrono and on 225 front HANKOOK VENTUS tires.. and is still 90% more expensive here than a Model 3 Performance that's standard on Pilot Sport 4S'..
You pay so that they get your car to show??? Really??? Without cars there is no show. AND THEN you have to pay to get in yourself??? and more then 100 dollars ??? Who should support that? Around here you can look at awesome cars for free just by having the event advertised. How about charging 10 dollars for entrance and getting the rest from drinks and prezels like other events do? I would never want to be part of such a "selected" group.
9:45 😁 Wannabe individualists doing the same thing making them uniform. (A bit like tatoos: The uniform of the people who want to show their individuality by doing the same thing as others. Like a comedian once said)
✋🙂 Chalk me up for another viewer who would gladly watch a Revelations episode about the Matra Bagheera. (No, I am not a Matra devotee, much less a Bagheera owner! Hell, I drive an old Sube, and own a much older Holden.)
I would definitely watch a revelations episode about the Matra Begheera!
You, I and 3 other people counting hyphen, Jason and paolo
Matra was (is) a defense company, they also made Rockets. In the 70s and 80s they worked together with Simca (Later Talbot) and built the Bagheera and successor, the Murena. Both with 3 seats, plastic body and Simca and Peugeot engines). Matra would go on to develop and build the Renault Espace, the first European minivan.
Matra’s 70s Le Mans cars had the greatest engine sound ever.
Yes pls, I want to know more, on weird car stuff always
@@paulds65 yupp here in India, our French fighter jets have matra missiles. It's like saab lol. Both are dead car manufacturers that thrive as defence manufacturers.
the curmudgeon-ness of this episode is fucking palpable, I love it!
Hyphens take on Magnus Walker’s collection is spot on what I’ve been thinking for a looong time. Good to know I’m not alone on this.
yeah. everyone is afraid to say anything negative about MW or his cars. odd.
From the _very first_ MW episode I ever saw, about 3 yrs ago, he was only ever a contrived, entitled, self-conscious, try-hard, car enthusiast. 🤮
Honestly, MW has done some damage to community. I feel like it’s now more entrenched in PURITY. Kinda bums me out since anytime I’ve talked about my idea to buy a roller and hot rod it I’ve had friends and social media heads just absolutely shit on me. It gives me Eugenics vibes 😢
MW and everybody that hangs out with him are cancerou.
@@vogueisdeath2176 Hey man, go nuts and have fun; no permission needed
There is a great quote from Regular Car Reviews which sums up roof racks on cars well I think: "You're unique, just like the rest of us."
Matra was the Coach Builder - they also did the Renault Espace many years later. The Murena and the Bagheera were both Simca/Talbot based :)
Didn't Matra create the first mid engined production car?
Matra also made the amazing Avantime
They were much more that a coach builder. They were an engineering consulting company, in the same vein as what Lotus later became. They built winning Formula 1 and Le Mans cars. They were also exceptionally innovative, having built what can arguably be called teh first mid-engined sports car. the first European mini vans, the first European SUVs and much much more.
Great talk. Love Derek and the way he thinks... definitely. I was waiting for a Porsche talk like this one.
Small world! I work with the Jan that Jason mentioned around 38mins in and have seen photos of a young Cammisa in his prime with his Scirocco. He appreciated your shout out. Great dude. 👍🏻
18:43 As an auto tech who constantly fixes clapped out shitboxes all day, this is why I have 2 P cars. I don't want to deal with a pain in the ass. A breakdown is not my idea of a good time on a weekend. They offer great performance without the bullshit of something more exotic or classic. Need parts? Build an entire car from Pelican or Suncoast, VS. trying to get parts for DTS' Citroen. I'm glad Jason finally admitted that there is another reason aside from lack of originality.
Clapped Out Shitbox is not a bad band name.
Finally someone has the ball$$ to say that backdating a 964 is a crime! :D
That craze seems to have screwed up the market for every air-cooled model from the first 3.2 through the 964. The 993 used to have a big price premium as the "last, ultimate" example. Now, 933s often seem to actually be priced lower than the earlier cars.
My local cars and coffee has gotten so popular that unless you show up 30 minutes before the gate opens you're probably not getting in. Imagine a line of air coolers all idling waiting to get in to park on the lawn. These days id rather go for a morning drive.
Ah yes, the weekly hit of dopamine from this grumbly duo
FFS I was listening to your rant about Talbot/Matra Begheera and/or Murena and HAD TO get on RUclipss to comment. Yes it's both and I'd definitely watch that. I stumbled on THREE of these parked on the curbside in the Netherlands last year. Gotta love the crazy Dutch people. And by the way, I DEMAND revelations on TALBOT/MATRA/SIMCA RANCHO. If being triple-brand (!) car is not enough (spoiler alert: it is), it's also a grandfather of all MPVs/crossovers/SUVs and the fake it till you make it overland movement. And it has a greenhouse like a Disco. Glorious car.
Agree completely on Singer cutting up 964s. It's a shame.
They’re just base Carreras tho
It does not matter, you cant get the 964 back
noooo not the 964 RS!!
Best episode yet
An episode about all the products of Matra would be interesting. Starting with the 1960's Djet mid-engined car, the first European Mini vans (Renault Espace), the first European SUV (Talbot Matra Rancho), the three-seat sport cars Murena and Bagheera, the first luxury SUV coupe (Renault Avantime) as well as the F1 and Le Man winning cars...
Saw Derek's License plate presentation. It was cool actually! Very interesting way to pluck something cool from the sea sameness.
Where did you find this? My google skills are letting me down. :)
You guys should talk more C4 corvette, as Jason said there is actually a lot of cool stories about the C4.
Have you watched Jason's C4 Revelations episode? Great stuff.
I have 2 of them. A 96 lt4 collector edition and a 92 zr-1. So yes, I'm all in for a c4 episode.
@@brandonherrera2891 I also own 2 C4´s 😆
A 94 6 speed, and a manuel 85 track car!
A friend bought a 1999 Tacoma v6 4wd Xtra cab new, and kept it like new, and rarely drove it. He had the illness of needing to have "perfect spaces", which this was one of, and he looked at it like an investment.
One day, he drove it to work in the snow. Upon arriving he decided to back it into a parking space. He got pedantic about how it was parked, as was common here there was a lot of ice build up everywhere, and upon his third attempt to alingn the vehicle to his liking the rear tires went over the Parking Stop. On the other side of the Parking block was more snow/ice, and a steeper 3ft slope leading to a wall of a building. So, once the tires got over the block, there was no stopping the truck before, BAM the wall, lol.
It crunched a tail light and that fende. It wasn't that bad, and probably could have been repaired to near perfection. Especially since he worked the frontnof a high end body shop. But no, the truck was sold, within a month, unrepaired.
Fun eh? 😀
Wait Cammisa isn't a porsche fanboy? This is why he is one of the greats.
I think they are both for the porsche experience, but not the porsche people.
Yup. The 2nd episode of The Carmudgeon Show way back when was basically titled "The Porsche 911 isn't as exciting as you think"
In it, Hyphen argued he bought a 911 to be different and Jason called him out because buying a 911 is the POLAR OPPOSITE of being different.
Maybe still bummed he couldn’t get that 911R he reviewed back in the day.
@@kjyu that’s fair.. I love that Cammisa seems to be very open minded when it comes to cars (I’m not, at all) but to be objective about Porsche is something I’ve very rarely seen from anyone.
Best Episode Yet !!
So good to have Derek back!
I loved Hyphen’s license plate frame posts. It was very entertaining. I would only put the actual selling dealer on one of my vintage cars. It took me 10 years to find a Phil Smart BMW (Seattle) license plate frame and until then, I just ran the plate. No Vasek Polak plate frames unless your car was sold there. No posing. And yes, I have thought way too much about this.
My car was sold in Bevery Hills in '87, and has holes in the center console for one of the first gigantic cell phones. You've just talked me into reaching out to the dealer to see if they have license plate frames!
Highlight of my Monday morning as I get into my rhythm in AutoCAD
I left air and water show Sunday and passed 3 GT3RS’s in my wife’s Prius on the 680? WTF
my grand parents drove a white matra simca bagheera s and a dark red honda S800 coupe. He had the Matra converted to right hand drive They were so glamorous. He was a sculptor
Derek's delivery at 50:30 actually made me do a spit take lmao
Both Murena and Bagheera sit three abreast, you both were right but thinking about different cars. 😜
That’s better, thanks. Please do an episode on Matra - the 1970s Matra V12 Le Mans cars had the best sound ever! A Matra episode where you’re both on peyote would be extra good. Derek, you’d like my 1:64 diecast car collection, it aligns well with your interests…
Thank u, nice the hear more of DTS. JC, yup me feel same way when timing belt on a Honda is due, got one coming up on a SOHC V6. On the rear engined bettles, agree it is a safe choice, wish more of them were just driven more often, than kept polished/stored. Plus more were made so the masses can enjoy them often. Great show
I live like 20 miles from where the Porsche show took place and am fairly connected online yet had absolutely NO idea this show was happening. I would have loved to attend, had there been a way to attend. I didn't know about it until after if happened. Not great. I guess I'll stick to Radwood :)
I hate new trend of "enthusiast" who likes the car because of what it represents than how it drives.
Although there are some owners who love Porsche because how they drive, I see more and more Porsche owner who buys them because of perceived perception of being enthusiast driver who love driving.
All they know is stupid option codes and paint codes and it's always pain for me to watch them talk about how Porsche is great because it doesn't depreciate
This is also a thing with zoomer girls who buy Miatas and then film themselves driving around for "vibes" to lure in orbiters, and they never actually talk about the car or driving. It's basically just "car girl is my personality" aka "Porsche is my personality".
My dad does the same thing with his Corvette lol some people are just not nuanced thinkers
@@thegamingguy1 I think every car brand has that, and it's just that Miata, Corvettes and Porsche are good at making car "livable" and that attracts these people who wants like driving but in reality doesn't view car more than a drivable luxury handbag
@@racesuey drive able luxury handbag lol well said
I was fortunate enough to own a 76, 84, and a 87 911 when they could be bought for average Joe’s money. Even back in the 90’s when people would see you in a 911 they automatically assumed you to be a DB and would make snide remarks like “must be nice”. My 911 replacement is a 65 Corvair Corsa and when people see that they give me a thumbs up. I’m with you Derek I would much rather have several cool cars which is why my daily is a W124 400E, a Citroen CX turbo, a 71 Beetle with a Subaru 2.5, and the above mentioned Corvair.
DB? Is that something milder, or worse than what I immediately assumed: dick-brain... 😬
Silly me.... Of course - it has to be _douche bag_ .
Corvairs are underrated, I especially liked how mine handled on gravel. Once you've thrown the clark's catalog at it, they'll hang with anything from that era.
Also, we're seeing the same thing with the Porsche "scene" that we saw start with VWs a decade or so ago. Individuality from a menu. Lots of people who want to look a certain way and show up and park and have people look at their cars. There's just a lot more money now.
It's very reassuring to know I'm not the only grump who feels this strongly about stuff. 🤣
Now I wanna go to Folsom street fair, thanks Derek
I think you guys are good at covering car news topics even if many other people are also doing it because of your unique fun vibe
Fantastic episode!
Brothers I seen a Suzuki Equator with doing my route yesterday.
I believe it was last episode that was a forgotten automobile
I definitely crave/want/desire/need an air-cooled Porsche...and I promise the Carmudgeons I will drive the wheels off of it!
This is an entire episode about how jaded Jason and Derek are lol.
try again
Top curmudgeonery and enjoyable but Luft-slagging is misplaced... Paid just above $100 for *both* days, free parking, excellent transportation/organization/food, saw really cool cars in great backgrounds and was only stuck 5 min on 37 on my way back both days... Good times ! Stupid prices of air cooled cars aren't Luft's fault.... Oh, and Matra is a French defense contractor (missiles and stuff) that also ventured into F1, endurance and car making in the 70s. They made cool entries that won Le Mans in the 70s, and it' s *only THE best sounding V12* in the world (debate that, I dare you). Also made a Matra Rancho that was a cool French range rover on the cheap.
I need this show, or meds, and I dont need an RX for the show. Plus the clap is priceless.
Zen & the Art of Old Cars....
Feels like we can't have nice things like Porsches because vapid status seekers rush in and buy them and elevate values in a feedback loop of empty boasting, and people who actually like and care about the thing are pushed out. ~20 years ago before Porsche values went crazy it was a much more likeable and honest (albeit often quite pedantic) community and fanbase IMO. These days way too much of the conversation is taken over by investment values, speculation, and what fancy watch pairs best with your Porsche collection...gross
💯💯💯💯👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
To be fair I'll take that then the fuckboi ricers with the Supreme t shirt that chops up a 964 into a gaudy RWB for Instagram.... At least the investor is preserving the car to a degree.
i like the term Peacocking for that showy behavior; sorta safe but still evocative
Jason - your friend bought the 84 Carrera from NJ? That looked like a fantastic load of fun. I watched that with great interest.
Totally agree with Derek on the Singers...I hate that they are gobbling up 964s and turning them into un-obtanium. The 964 is fantastic looking era between the classic 911 and the shaved nose, too modern looking 993.
Luftgekühlt is great because it's not just the marque it's also the setting.
Great episode!
The Talbot-Matra Jason was looking for is the Murena.
It followed the Bagheera and was powered by 4 cylinder engines cranking out 92 bhp (1.6L) and 142bhp (2.2L).
8.4 sec to 60mph
Top speed 127mph
I used to see Matra Bagheras/Muranas in Italy (Friuli) in the early 90s pretty often. To my 10 year old eyes it may as well had been a Pantera or Merak.
Its probably the autism, but an episode about license plates would be incredible.
What happened to the Ferdinand Piëch episode ?
We'd love to do it for Episode 100, but... let's see if time allows!
23 year old timing belt!!!! LOL!!! Surprize!
After 17 years of owning my present Porsche it seems to always like people. The older I get, the more I hate people. Fewer shows, more driving away from others.
A whole episode on the single-marque car show (and Porsche at that) without mention of Rennsport Reunion?
C'mon, at least that one has a crap ton of cool shit to see, watch, and listen to throughout the weekend.
But stepping back, I've met most of my closest friends through car stuff and motorsport - Sometimes the sheet metal is only half of the experience.
Rennsport is an actual cool event, because you get to see them race, and getting worked on in the paddocks
@18:45 True. Had a perfect 997. Sold it and got an e30 Touring. 997 too good. Too fast in 2nd gear. E30 is a hoot in all gears.
I think you guys would enjoy Autopia, in Madrid (Spain)
I've insured a dozen cars and a classic Chris Craft with Hagerty over the last 30 years. I put two cars with them 2 years ago.I have no tickets or accidents ever. I have never made an insurance claim. When the renewal came for year 2, the rate had been increased 100%.Still I stayed with them. Then I got the Year 3 renewal...again a 100% increase over Year 2. I am done with Hagerty now in favor of Grundy, who offered a rate that was 30% of what Hagerty was extorting.
ahhh the Cincy VW days... oh the memories!
Would watch a rev on matra!!!😊
Jason speaking about VW shows and drivers reminded me of the New Dimensions show of 2003, where the R32 was debuted, and yes, we drove like absolute a-holes. I mean, it was the MKIV era.
I would like to see Derek at the Folsom 🙂
A revelations about Matra itself, or *sny* Matra car would be amazing. They are possibly weirder than Citroen but with more humble underpinnings. (Mainly Talbot and Renault iirc). And way too European for American tastes
Bagheera and Murena are both 3-seat models :-D
Complains that about people noticing stickers aren't period.
2 mins later
Complains singer wheels are too big for period
😆
jks aside love the content guys
My example affects how the car drives, however.
@@Dtamscott and they always shrink the steering wheel at the same time
Rowan Atkinson said something like “I don’t understand Porsche People”. Whatever that means 😅
We'll have words with the S4 owner.
Surprisingly I'd say the venn diagram of people interested in the Roadster definitely has more enthusiasts in it than other Teslas.
Heck, I like those, think they're sub zero and they're badged *Tesla*; I'd rather put the proverbial tongue in a cheek than think about those cars at all.
The Model S might've made the grade but I think the Roadster is the far cooler car. Z1 vibes...even if it isn't really all that gimmicky in concept
9:05 - "There's this culture of sorta, like..." 🤔 Perhaps _try-hard_ is the ideal label to give those characters.
16:25 - (Puts tongue in cheek, for those viewers who are hearing impaired, or that just don't listen. 🙉)
26:02 - Multiple of that car, is _Prii_ .
I thought Matra Begheera was John Malkovich’s character in “Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy”
I am curious when the friend bought the 911 off BAT? Your Ferrari and Lotus in todays market would be more than 70k. The Ferrari starting in the 40's and the Lotus starting mid 30's.
Would be interesting to here what everyone thinks about RWB Porches.
Please talk about how bad RWB is :D
I think the ownership experience of a 911G is going to be a lot more expensive for Jason's friend than is being discussed. EVERYTHING has gone throught the roof in the last 2-3 years. Work that was $15K a few years ago is $30K now, and climbing. Depending on how rough "rough" is, this friend owner can very easily be into $50K+ just to get the car in reasonable shape. Some parts are increasingly NOT available and there are fewer experienced mechanics every year. If you can't do your own work, a 911 is now a VERY costly car.
944 Turbo - that's the move today, and fully RADwood-approved
Episode two of asking for carmudgeon merch
A douchèrie would be a shower vendor
@50:43 : When did you drive the cars? If Rental Car Adam Sandler was driving the red one post-Aparteid Chad's roadster stunt that re-inserted the Roadster into public consciousness, that would be the explanation.
Everyone needs more Maserati Biturbo in their lives
Great episode Jason. Love that you actually call out some of these bay area Porsche assholes. As someone who's much younger than the people who come to these car shows, i sure do hope that by the time i have worked and earned enough to buy a 997 GT2(yes its turbocharged, i don't care. It's the modern underdog. Everybody liked the GT3 better. It probably was. There's just something exciting to me about a actual mezger motor, because remember the mezger was always turboed in racing form, with a manual, the 997 shape and size, which i thing is perfect. And also the fact that you can probably die in it if you turn of tc.)that people start to appreciate other weird shit like iso grifos with chevy v8's and 50's abarths, all of which gordon murray owns lol.Also love the gt2 because of the exploits of a certain rob 'lonman' kenworthy. If you know you know.
This might all be a West Coast thing. I don't get any of this vibe at all on the East Coast, though admittedly the BaT crowd tends to ruin every marque everywhere.
Mr. Shirt and Mr. - ,
I need help finding my dream car. I love manuals but for an every day car I'd like something quiet. So I've been trying to find a car that is manual, flagship levels of quiet and comfortable, and preferably naturally aspirated, although I'd tolerate supercharging. So far the closest thing I've been able to find is a blackwing, if they ever get cheap, or swap an early panamera since they were offered with a manual, but that would be an obscene amount of work just to figure out the software.
Thanks in advance to anyone that can help.
OK, feel free to laugh at the idea, and yeah, I know they'd never do it...
But if I had truly filthy amounts of idle lucre, one of the many absurd things I would like to do is bring a Karmann Ghia and a 2.5L Polo engine to Singer and have them give it the full treatment.
9:30
Douchery is a name for it, but yeah.... I see what you are talking about and it's a bit of an issue, taste aside.
That Hyphen boy... I like him angry
If only Porsche still made good, good value cars...
*Looks at the Taycan in disgust realizing it's basically a triple-priced Model 3 competitor
By that logic every ICE sports car is just an overpriced Lada... There is much more to the taycan than a model 3 rip off. the only thing those two got in common, besdies the number of doors and wheels is that they are electric.
@@leviathan5207 The F are you talking about?
Do you mean 400kg overweight by "much more to it"?
Add a 2.5k suspension upgrade to a Model 3 Performance and it equals or beats a thrice the price Taycan Turbo in every single metric (including passenger and luggage space, making the typical Taycan vs. Model S comparison dumb), apart from interior materials - those feel probably a grand or two more upscale in the Porsche - make sure you don't get the standard plastic dash and opt for the optional full leather though..
Alternatively:
If you buy a base Taycan here you have to spend almost 12k€ on options before you get what's standard in a Model 3 for half the money with more power and AWD....
Is it worth 10% more? - probably; 20%? maybe; 100-200%? F that noise...!
But you made the point of the episode quite well. Branding is strong and the cars used to be great and good value back in the day..
@@NO3V have never owned a taycan but a Model 3 is no where near any Porsche I have been in in terms of interior build quality and quality of materials...that alone can account for a good chunk of th price difference...
Also by your logic, you can take a taycan, put a great aftermarket suspension on it and it can basically compete with electric supercars/hypercars...
Almost all high power electric cars are basically the same in acceleration and such after you get into the the really high power configurations....
The real difference is that the Porsche will do the performance out of the box without the need to upgrade brakes, suspension, etc to match the Model3 or Model S.
Also the reason the Taycan is compare to the Model S is because of the overall dimension of the vehicle - but you are accurate in that in terms of actual usable space, the Taycan is closer to the Model 3 than the S.
@@triaxe-mmb Weeeeeell.. "Does the performance out of the box" needs a few asterisks.
You'll never see one in a review or as a test drive car (believe me, I asked and never heard back...) but a base Taycan comes with 326hp and 2,125 kg, with the smaller battery, without AWD, without air suspension, without four wheel steer, without PCCB, without PASM, without PTV, without Servo Plus, without Sport Chrono and on 225 front HANKOOK VENTUS tires..
and is still 90% more expensive here than a Model 3 Performance that's standard on Pilot Sport 4S'..
You pay so that they get your car to show??? Really??? Without cars there is no show. AND THEN you have to pay to get in yourself??? and more then 100 dollars ??? Who should support that? Around here you can look at awesome cars for free just by having the event advertised.
How about charging 10 dollars for entrance and getting the rest from drinks and prezels like other events do?
I would never want to be part of such a "selected" group.
EV’s will never be collectible. People don’t collect calculators, nobody dreams of some day owning their first iPhone 3 again.
Not that I disagree... but have you seen the recent auction prices for first gen iPhones?
@@worldisafrick And original G-Shocks.
Liked because biceps
Every show I'm randomly thinking "Damn, Derek is jacked."
9:45 😁 Wannabe individualists doing the same thing making them uniform. (A bit like tatoos: The uniform of the people who want to show their individuality by doing the same thing as others. Like a comedian once said)
I bet there was no asbestos in that warehouse
people who make a big deal about luft9, are the best of car culture, and the absolute worst of car culture all wrapped up into one!
just do three seaters.
And or, three wheelers.
Porsches are awesome. But their owners and rich fan boys just suck and ruin the whole experience.
All hail the algorithm
✋🙂 Chalk me up for another viewer who would gladly watch a Revelations episode about the Matra Bagheera.
(No, I am not a Matra devotee, much less a Bagheera owner! Hell, I drive an old Sube, and own a much older Holden.)
Cammisa is the new Clarkson. Derek - the new Harris.
Hyphen is more like May
@@tonyclewes8 Harris is also a massive nerd
@@XunoHa May took it to a whole new level - Lego house Spitfire kit ?
Sold my 1990 C4 with 250k km in 2005 for 17000 euro......
VW owners driving to a show, LOL!!!! I feel targeted
Apparently Top Gear destroyed an original press car Matra Bagheera (DHP 794T)...
Do you think a Porsche owners car resembles their Schwantz?