“I hid the whole game with a key and waited for my teammates to die so I could use hatch. I’m such a pro as a survivor :).” According to the mmr system
urban evading blendette that hides the whole game and luckily escaped = winner skillfull and altruistic player running the killer for minutes and unhooking as many teammates as he can but then gets camped to death = loser
Old emblem system at least rewarded interesting and risky gameplay. I would take that over this. This rewards camping /tunneling and hiding/ not being altruistic
It’s so odd to me that they used kills and escapes as the criteria when they already have the BP system, ie the thing that tracks what you did throughout the trial and rewards you accordingly to how well you did. Just ignore anything that increases the amount of BP the player gets and use that the unaltered amount for the program. Perfect system? Of course not, but I’d say it’s much better at determining a player’s skill than kills and escapes do.
I’ve got a question. So what if you’re a really good survivour and then you and the three randoms get slugged by a speed running nurse and killed and none of you get over 5k points? Like you could be good but if you just get rolled one match are you paired against babies the next? Idk exactly what my question is but I just need some clarification. And the nurse themself won’t get many points as it’s not actually a match it’s just haha I sweat to get WR.
@@Valgient Wouldn't the players lose rank/mmr and be thrown into easier matches, whilst the nurse gains rain/mmr and be thrown into harder matches? With baby survivors eventually losing enough games to be put lower, in their balanced place. Doesn't that solve itself?
@@kingcole5977 Yeah but they’re saying it’s based off bp gained and since the nurse speedran the game she doesn’t get many points either so she’ll just stay that rank I guess? Also you can’t lose rank anymore which is dumb but that’s the point in the reward system. I think all players would lose mmr some more than others lol even if they shouldn’t be losing mmr but because of bad teammates they did. Also a baby survivour could just immerse and easily get points for the categories even if they suck which means they’ll be in higher mmr when not suppose to be lol. But yeah it kind of solves itself but not in the way it should imo
I beg to differ. Almost every No Mither I encounter nowadays is a cheater/lagswitcher who is unpickable and/or unhookable. So they just keep picking themselves for free.
@@KatyaAbc575 I mean, while that might be true (I believe you, I've just never seen it) I don't think that people cheating should make it so that people who want a legit challenge get screwed over.
It is so demoralizing to hear the lead designer just straight up say "yes the chad Yui who looped the killer for 4 gens then got face camped while their teammates jacked each other off in the corner is less skilled than the Claudette who hid in a locker the entire game and got hatch."
I had a game yesterday that as a killer made me grind my teeth. I’ll preface this with I was playing Pig on Midwhich and I had 8 hooks at the end of the game. I played the match and I had STBFL level 2, I hit 8 stacks at the very end of the game after hitting my obsession over a pallet once. I had to let 2 people walk past me because I wasn’t tunnelling but I had seen the same 2 people 3x back to back so I let one go, saw the other and walked by, found the third and put him on second hook. Towards the end of the game I passed by him again and let him go only to then hook the other two followed by him. 2 gens left I had been searching for meg who I did not see a SINGLE TIME, NOT ONCE, NOT EVEN A GLANCE the entire match!!! She gets out through hatch almost immediately after the 2nd survivor dies and the game ends. Not once. She should lose 2 pips for that for real. She had 12k BP after escaping through hatch…. I should also add I went locker searching at the end of the game thats why I switched to “towards the end of the game” I had gone for about 40s checking lockers near gens that were not regressing after I kicked them
@@revellations7741 What annoys me is how many points hatch is worth. 7.5k. 5k for surviving. And 2.5k for objectives for some reason. Hatch should only be worth like 2.5k survival only. Key hatch escapes (before the nerf) shouldnt give any.
How often is that Claudette going to escape if she always just hides though? You can't take just one match into account, you have to consider how well they do across multiple games
Not to mention MMR isn't about skill, it's about who gets the better result. Having a higher MMR doesn't mean you are better and it isn't supposed to be like an ELO rating. It's just a tool to see who you should be paired with
What bothers me is how little the devs act like they care. "Eh we know it's broken. Whatever." Mid chapter is just McLean's dying breath and the game is downhill from here.
Ruin undying isn't even strong unless you have potatoes as survivors. Totems literally just don't last anymore and them nerfing undying to shit doesn't help that at all. On top of that, you're still required to be able to down survivors extremely fast in order to actually get value out of it. It blows my mind how you people still think ruin undying is good. Newsflash: if you're losing to it you're either playing a really good killer or you and/or your teammates aren't as good you/they think.
That's not true. Run all the slowdown you want and you'll still lose when you face top tier survivors. HOWEVER, those survivors are like the Vasto Lorde of dbd. They're extremely rare. Still though, the game is not possible to win at the highest level if you're the killer.
@@Ben_chesmoor this is what I have been saying for a while. Either add more ranks or make the ranks harder to level up. You can do nothing at brown rank and still get a pip. It is way too easy, and it causes everyone to eventually reach red rank, which also means that red ranks is filled with bums and also gods. If it was harder to pip at each color level, the noobs would stay low and the people who are really good would continue to grow.
@@yurei3714 - It could also have been a Laurie desperately trying not to use DS. Meg, Nea, Laurie and Claudette are the toxic Queens... then Bill, Jake and Leon are honorary toxic Queens.
@@zenlavin34 If you NEED to, then yes (unless you need it for a challenge :p), but if you just use it not necessarily. Can take hatch after everyone else left (escaped) too. This should be still possible with new hatch soon is my guess, as it only states it will get visible when only one surv is remaining. But I might be wrong about that as I have not been up to date with the game really ^^ Also until update it is possible to get all 4 through the hatch. Since it needs 5 gens to be completed and everyone alive - I don't see the 'your team def lost'.
This is what happens when they care more about the statistics than the player experience. Jeff Kaplain from Overwatch once said "The perception of balance is more important than actual statistical balance." Wish bHVR would listen to him.
ive been playing the game since hag came out and after all that time im finally running out of hope for this game, im usually the master of giving them the benefit of the doubt but hearing them acknowledge they made a poorly functioning system and be okay with it is brutal ugh
@@EvilPeppermintHelix It’s important because the game now pairs people up in matches who are at completely different skill levels (as the game bases ‘skill’ off of ‘escapes’ which is flawed.
I'll be honest, I've always been sure they made the mmr announcement just to meet people's expectations. The ranks never really meant anything other than playtime, so they made the mmr to make people happy.
and perhaps shut up people who strictly compare the ranks, like "oh I'm a rank 1 and I was just put in a team of rank 20's!" I'm sure that's extremely annoying
Well. Rank resets were dumb as fk. I don't only play dbd. When I do I got rank 1 and kept rank 1 through out a season. Bit not playing and coming back to rank 20 is boring as fuck. Shitty teammates and new killers. No joke met a first time trapper one with my 600 hour survivor experience. It was extremely boring. I don't enjoy stomping people. I enjoy a higher level of play. Just making ranking up harder and removing rank resets would fix it.
@@NaJk93 if u remove rank reset then eventually over time every1 even default Megs will be on Red/your ranks ... its what happened before and why we asked for MMR in the first place
@@Gnomechopski they listen for now VHS being a Free game a Is a Fear People who are just dying to jump Games are being blinded to the issues VHS Being a Free Game brings is crazy Because if they Get Lost And Just get money hungry Or They Dont Patch things or fix or Have a good anti cheat It will die like all other games that tried to take on dbd
It's almost as if they had a system that worked in the first place. The BP system. Where you could max out in one or two categories and still pip. It solves the issues feeling like you tried your hardest and still lost, and still caters to the people who keep repeating "ranks don't matter anyways".
"DS would moderately decrease the skill value" Oh no, the "moderately" virus has jumped from Dbd to Scott. He's been in there too long, we have to get him out.
I dont even watch DBD anymore i just enjoy watching the content creators, Scott always takes the cake with his takes and the fact that his thought process goes so deep and far into the game. Really do show how much he loves the game and its beyond admirable. I wish the devs would listen he has great ideas
I always make sure not to tunnel or camp, i just have fun and try to make sure everyone, myself included, has a fun game. If i end with 8 hooks and 0 kills i consider that a win for me, I did a lot, it was a close one, everyone had a good time, if youre telling me that 8 hooks is a complete L thats so dumb, toxicity is about to go crazy.
This is the precise reason I quit the game. I wasn’t having fun but I was still playing just to play and then thought to myself why not just spend my time on something I actually enjoy.
@@runewarrior43 the problem with this concept is how much hours someone has spent on a game in hopes that the devs would do something better to bring back the ‘fun’. Also these same individuals have probably spent 100’s supporting the game like DLC’s, Skins etc. I feel the same tho, DBD is just me playing a few times every couple of months then uninstalling
@@sandevastated1 I get that hell I’m one of the people whose spent hundred on DLC and cosmetics. What it really comes down to is wether you find your time and happiness more valuable then the money and time already spent which will be different for everyone.
What if you split perks and addons into tiers based on how often they get used. The more common your perk/addon is the less mmr you get. They could be split based on community usage that could update weekly or something
@@SerbianKnifeFight Then the devs look at the stats and go "Well clearly monstrous shrine is perfectly fine because all these killers are using it with ruin/undying" and will use that to justify not buffing perks that actually need buffs. Incentivising people to use uncommon perks for the sake of MMR is bad for balance as it scews the numbers.
You know what? I'm done, i'm done. I'm uninstalling, i have so many other options out there for good relaxing game expereiences in witch i don't feel stressed as fuck going into a match. Like at this point the game is not fun anymore, it feels like a chore to play killer, survivor on the other hand you can SWF with some friends and still have fun loosing, Like i literally don't see any point in playing killer no more, i'm running the same 4 perks every game, going against the same surviors with the same perks every game. Nobody is trying new stuff, every match is the same. You also got so much more shit to do as a killer, you gotta gen pressure early, you gotta learn to juke loops, you gotta deal with fellas blocking on hook, you gotta learn all the killers and their kit in actual machmaking, not even a way to practice them outside of the Q, you gotta wait for unbrakable, DS, Deliverance play around BT, Spine Chill, Adrenaline is just too much man. I don't even get mad over it i'm just bored, just straight up bored and tired. I literally feel a feeling of freedom every time i'm playing something else then DBD. Maybe the game wasn't for me from the start, maybe i stayed because i've spent money and didn't wanted to feel like i wasted em', maybe i stayed for the comunity or the tought that will get better, maybe i just love to bitch around about the game after 3k hours spent or maybe is just time to move on to something new, enjoy some other stuff or just take a long brake either way i know that i'm just done.
You really do need to admire BHVR for coming up with Skill Based matchmaking that doesn't take player skill into account. That's innovation right there.
I have a concern with a ratio'd system based on builds. With perks like DS and BT and Unbreakable, they change the trial in ways that help all other survivors in some way shape or form. Someone using DS could make a chase last 5 minutes longer and give survivors all the time in the world to do objectives, but only that single survivor will suffer from a lower progress ratio. Now if it was calculated to change the MMR ratio of your teamates, then you could just run a crutch build with tremendously degenerative affects towards all other survivors and prevent them from being scored fairly regardless of THEIR build. I think just adding a skill cap is the best option. That way, it is possible to get a maximum amount of "skill"(for lack of a better term) per trial. That way, using godlike perks simply makes it easier to reach that ceiling and maybe go just a little further if you do exceptional. Im not sure if im making much sense or if I'm just describing the last ranking system but i feel like having a semi-flexible ceiling per trial is an alright way to judge the broken placement of the game.
The fact that they call it SKILLED based match making, and then dumb it down even more from the emblem system, is just such an insult to all their playerbase.
Skilled base matchmaking is so fucking broken for killer, I recently got plague and I got put up against survivors who had played the game for thousands of hours.
The emblem system tracks so much more than SBMM does: Lightbringer: Generator repair progress, generators completed, exit gates opened, dull/hex totems cleansed, being chased while other survivors are repairing/cleansing. Unbroken: Time alive, being put into the dying state. Benevolent: Being hit, healing, healing another survivor, being hooked, unhooking someone, safe unhooks, protection hits, helping another survivor wiggle free (i.e; pallet/flashlight saves), hook sabotages - all with modifiers for basement and after powering the exit gates. Evader: Being in the killer's terror radius, chase duration, escaping a chase (with modifiers for chase duration), getting hit, stunning a killer. Gatekeeper: Time generators remain unrepaired, exit gates being opened. Devout: Sacrifices, Moris, bleedouts, disconnects, hooks, whether or not the killer hooks all 4 survivors. Malicious: Hits, hook states, survivors healed, survivors escaping your grasp. Chaser: Finding a survivor and initiating chase, losing the survivor, chase duration, hitting a survivor, proximity to a hooked survivor. Surely they could have taken some of this data, assigned appropriate numerical values to each, and calculated MMR from that? Hell, they could have kept using the emblem system but uncapped and it would have been better than this kills vs escapes atrocity.
come on scott they only had a year to design skill based matchmaking give them at least a few more to realize add-ons, perks, and offerings drastically effect the outcome of the match /s
Side note: You could easily account for which perks/add-ons are stronger based on the percentage of how many wins (chases/escapes/kills) a killer or survivor gets in matches over all players
@@rekrap4348 No, good nurses will climb regardless of any modifier. Most players are bad nurses, so going based off of all players would have incorrectly considered nurse terrible.
Today I accidentally ran a little experiment on MMR. I was streaming for a friend as a killer, and he wanted to play against me, so I picked a killer with lower MMR, and we were searching and living lobbies for a little bit. Then I changed killer to something i play more, I ended up in the same previous lobby, I swapped to my least played killer, same lobby, to my most played killer, same lobby, mid played killers, first timing level 1 killers, all of them ended up in the same lobby (Sorry to those 4 survivors that must have been waiting forever)
For survivor, they also said that you get a higher MMR rating if you are the last to die. Their rating not only uses escapes as a point of reference to determine your MMR "score" for the match.
To be fair I believe that if they balanced matchmaking around your loadout, you could take advantage of that system by just loading into your game with nothing and then adding whatever you like before the game starts. So they would need to have you only be able to choose your perks/add-ons before you queue.
Before reset I was Iridescent 3, I don't have time to play a ton so I'm slowly climbing back 1 game at a time. I'm at Gold 3 right now. I played a match and destroyed 4 Ash 1 survivors, cool, ranked up a little bit, but my next match was against 4 Iridescent 1 survivors each with 1,000+ hours (I have about 200). I got all 4 of them to death hook, the game took a long time, I out mind gamed all 4 of them a few times, and I ended up getting 1 kill.... and I lost a rank point. I think the game also needs to take into consideration the skill gap between the opposing teams, because for how well I played against 4 Iridescent 1 survivors at gold 3, I think I should've at least not lost a rank point for that match.
I actually implemented a glicko2 based MMR system, so I can give a pretty informed perspective. Judging in game actions: All of the actions that Scott lists are actions that make it more likely that more of your teammates escape. However, you get into a balancing act of assigning values to each of these properties. And these values might change based on what patch you are on or what build you are using. Against some killers, pre-dropping every pallet is the right call. Whats happening is that these values are proxy values for the actual value we care about, the total number of survivors that escape. Adjusting based on addons: The objective of a good system is to estimate the chance each team will "win". If a killer takes iri addons into a match 100 games in a row, their rating would be way higher than if they did not do this. However, this is good. By giving them a higher rating, the system is marking them a scarier killer, and it is right to do this, as they are likely to bring iri addons in their future matches as well. With no knowledge of the concept of addons, the system has successfully taken into account the threat that a player who uses them poses. If they repent for their sins and stop using iri addons, a good glicko2 system should be able to adjust their rating back down within like 10 games. "This system is the same as the red rank system, Every killer will eventually reach 1900 rating" This is true, and the fact that it is even possible is mind numbing. Rating is traditionally, by definition, a proxy for win rate. Two players with a rating difference of 100 points would have a 36/64 matchup in a standard rating system for example. The thing thats funny about this is that they copied the aesthetics of a rating system (Numerical scale usually ranging from 1000 - 2000) without actually understanding it at all. Reasonable solution A reasonable system could just count the number of survivors that escape, and plug that number into a modified glicko2 formula where 0 escapes is more "winny" for killer and 4 escapes is more "winny" for survivors, then divvy the ratings accordingly. Yes, there will be noise. But there will always be noise, it's literally impossible to account for changes in players skill or play style. This system would be accurate enough to provide the results that BHVR wants. I cant post links in youtube comments it seems but if anyone wants to find my work search "terminal correlation one forum" and search "glicko"
I enjoy, not just your insight but also your open-mindness to these topics and I say this as a survivor main. thanks for these videos if I go back to watching Twitch killer videos I'm definitely going to check your schedule.
The blood point system discussed in a video not so long ago really solved all issues for rank imo. Having 20k or 25k be a cap for 1 pip and under is a depip. You can literally weigh peoples actions in blood points based on the value of the action. Like having a killer miss their swing while vaulting would give way more BP than say, vaulting it regularly without danger. They have archive missions dedicated for this stuff so the code is already there.
Currently in the game RIGHT NOW they can calculate the length of chase time in the boldness category so they easily can make an MMR system for people who run the killer for the whole game!
The biggest red flag in the world was that their "mmr" system had a max cap. Shows they fundamentally don't understand how the concept is supposed to work.
The thing is that BHVR endorses every type of gameplay. Camping is valid, tunneling as well. That means that they also endorse immersive gamers, the people that only hides during the match. For them they are equally valid as the God loopers. For us, we know that the proper way to play is sometimes taking aggro when the match requires it, you need to be proactive. But they don't wanna tell the players how to play their game. I also understand that, as much as I hate the one guy that only hides and doesn't take pressure from their teammates.
Those mad lads. They did it. They really did it. The community asked for a better ranking system, and BHVR committed to the “you asked for this, so we nerfed blank” joke by *nerfing their own ranking system.*
They said its effective to fulfill its main objective for MMR which is to prevent stomp matches which from my experience has been on point. But there are rare occasions of double recharge nurse or ring + amulet spirit which should be accounted for same would go for BNP and medkits but there is no lock in mechanism for queue where they could account for it.
i play more killer than survivor but I've notice in my survivor games I'll loop goofy (assumed newer) killers for 2 gens to pop, get a bunch of unhooks on others, go back during end game collapse after i complete last gen and opening exit gate to unhook poor newbie survivor with my BT active so another can escape but I go down to goofy killer and teammates just leave. Since that counts as a loss, subsequent games include teammates that don't heal others, unhook, they go down easily in short chase and if you're unlucky enough to get killed again its a positive feedback loop of mmr tanking until the games aren't even close to your caliber and it just simply isn't fun to participate in.
With them having MMR be hidden, it just being centered around kills and escapes, and, iirc, him at one point saying something along the lines of "play how you want, the system will sort out where your playstyle fits among others," it sounds like they don't even want it to be a 'skill-based' matchmaking so much as a way to match you against/with people that play the way you do. Except it's still a little too vague for that and the only difference I feel is longer killer queue times...
The system is completely broken with no easy fix. There's ways to make things a bit less broken with the way things currently are but as a whole, the entire system needs to be either scrapped or overhauled and since they've already admitted that there's no way they can realistically make an actual working system, why bother trying? As for making things a bit less broken, at least as far as survivor is concerned without having to add a bunch of nuance that takes everything into account is to have the survivors evaluated as a team instead of individually. If 3 or 4 survivors escape, all survivors in the match go up in MMR. If all survivors die or only 1 escapes, all the survivors go down in MMR. If 2 survivors escape, then all the survivors go up or down in MMR based on the MMR of the killer they played against. This allows players to normalize their MMR after many games. For example, the Dwight player that hides in the corner of the map and does nothing every game he's in is not contributing to the win. In those games, the killer is far more likely to kill the other 3 survivors because it's essentially a 3v1. So, it doesn't matter if the Dwight escapes through the hatch at the end, he (and the rest of his team) will still lose MMR because as a team, they lost the match. The players that actively contribute to the objectives, IE: doing generators and running the killer around as effectively as possible, utilizing the map's resources optimally are far more likely to consistently have their teams escape. So, even if the guy that ran the killer around for 5 gens gets hyper focused once the exit gates are opened and Bubba camped to death, their MMR will still increase because their team escaped and the killer will lose MMR because again, the team escaped. After a dozen or more games, MMR will begin to normalize. The survivors that simply do not contribute to the success of the team's escape will eventually begin to lose MMR until they're faced against killers with low enough MMR that they can't win even the 3v1 games and the survivors that can effectively run the killer around for 5 generators will reach a higher MMR until they come across killers that can effectively catch them. Is this a perfect solution? No. The entire system is broken and should probably be scrapped. However, with minimal effort, it would be a better implementation of essentially what we already have which, while not completely fixes the problem, does at least address some of the most blatant problems with the current MMR system.
This is probably the best idea I've seen for mmr. It'd also add a lot more interesting decisions, since now you have to actually consider "I need to go save my teammate endgame, so that I can win" which is good for the game as a whole. Also the meta would shift from selfish perks to more team oriented perks, which I think is also good for the game
The most amazing thing to me is that the devs took years to make this sbmm to in the end it only take into account your escapes or kills. if anyone has the capability to make a good sbmm for dbd it would be the devs with all their cosmetic and dlc money. this bs of it being too complicated is bs, they couldve done it but they decided to copy past old matchmaking and say its "new". Well i felt hopefull for a whole week very nice.
For the 100% trial chase, what if a bug appeared not recording the chase? MMR would fail and then multiply that by other MMR unhooks, gen time, healing time, etc failing with a bug then MMR fails more frequently and is obvious there are bugs in the system. Escape and time played are two easy values to record to avoid people complaining about the bugs. Now imagine a game breaking bug where the killer couldn't hear a slugged survivor, how long has that been in the game?
i think for me the most important things would be the chasetime, ressources wasted doing so, and how little downtime you had doing nothing. When you have a long time not doing gens or something like that, especially while someone is getting chased it should punish that.
Honestly rank does somehow matter, I was a green/purpule rank killer and the SBMM often give 2 red ranks and 2 low rank survivor. The red ranks can loop me for minutes while the low ranks keep hiding all the game.. it really sucks to play killer right now for me I lost completly the motivation, I only get kills during end game camping it's so boring and stressfull please just give me people with the same rank, back then the MM was way better than now...
5:08 Or just look at the points that the survivor gained throughout the match? It would be a lot more easier to implement than a chase timer in my opinion..
@@facecampingbubba4656 yes that's why it doesn't work. Mmr doesn't take in consideration the items/addons you bring plus if you play in a swf etc.. doesn't make much sense to me. They should just remove mmr altogether
This is how mmr should be 1 - You can see your own number. 2 - Remove the cap. 3 - Its optional but let everyone start at zero, after a few months it will sort itself out. 4 - The way it goes: Killer gets 4k = +2, 3k = +1, 2k = no change, 1k = -1, 0k = -2 5 - Same with survivors but instead of kills its escapes and it counts for everyone, so if you get camped the entire game and the rest escape, all survivors all rank up by 1. 6 - BP bonuses the higher rank you are for motivation. (like idk if ur rank 13 its +%13 or sum shit). Tell me its not the best system. About the addons and perks, if you bring strong stuff that makes you more likely to win then you will win, rank up and then come across opponents who also bring strong stuff so it will even out at the end.
I imagine if they implemented Scott's admittedly logical system there would be SOOOO MUCH debate about each and every number or coefficient or whatever. Numbers would be debated a lot I imagine, just like everything is already.
Maybe something like point buy system would work for dbd, like every item, perk and addon(not rarity based) has cost in points and you have pool of points that you spend on them while in lobby. Like army building in wh40k works. Some killers get more points to spend, some killers like nurse get less. Imho it would make meta in perks much more flexible and dynamic. Problem is that it will take time and effort from BHVR to pull it out and i'm afraid that it is too much to ASK from them
At least they're admitting it. I would almost be afraid they'd look at the numbers, see more Killers in high MMR and decide that every Killer needs a nerf despite it being their own system that caused the discrepancy.
"If a team wants to win, they can probably modify the match in such a way that they can win without actually being better than the opponents". This is 100% true. Whenever I play killer and I'm tired of losing, the 3 gen method works 95% of the time, even when I recognize that my opponents are a million times better than me. It's scummy but the fact that that's reality sucks for mmr.
A 3 gen is usually a blunder on the survivors part. As killer, even as hag or trapper, as long as 2 survivors are alive, you cant patrol the 3 gens all at the same time.
I've said before and I'll say it again, if there's 4 survivors alive and they lose to a 3 gen that's a huge mistake on their part. It's really not that hard to do the last gen with 4 people alive because no matter what there will always be 3 people you aren't chasing who can easily do the last gen or split pressure on gens.
Does any other game considers what you're using to rate your skill? Imagine you're playing LoL and the game goes "So you're playing off-meta? That will give you more rating!" Doesn't work because it's a nightmare to keep changing this according to every single patch.
Not off-meta, more like you can't pick your runes in which league would 100% account for that because being at an objective disadvantage not being considered would be stupid.
No you're right. Things like items and load out in a game like LoL are too variable whereas objectives are a more consistent measure of skill. But...even to that point, there are plenty of sites that track the WR of specific items and champ match ups etc. In an asymmetrical game, there's not really an equivalent measure outside of comparing killer vs survivor builds. Which just proves how mmr in DBD can't be expected to work as intended.
It's counter intuitive to punish people for optimizing. You want to climb ranks, so you bring what gives you the best chance of winning. For both LoL and DBD that would mean character and builds. And then you'd receive less rating because you're going for the optimal.
The sad thing is I think they had KINDA of a good thing going with the emblems ratings... With little tuning (taking into account for example killers with insta downs that usually get less chaser emblems and so on so forth) they could have based their MMR system solely on that! Emblems already take into account chases, gens, unhooks, heals, etc... With a FEW tweaks it could have been a perfect starting point for the MMR, in my opinion!
Base MMR on BP score rather than kills/escapes, because kills/escapes still factor in, they just aren't the ONLY thing that factors in, and playing for score encourages both sides to play in a manner that is more fun (ie engaging in more chases, hook rescues, etc and NOT just hook camping for kills or Gen rushing.)
I feel like with all the variables that come with making this game harder to balance, the solution would just be to lower the variables. Like, do we really need all these different tiers of medkits, toolboxes, and a buttload of tiered add-ons? I feel like trimming some of the fat should be the first step in making an MMR, but at this point they can't do it because then people would complain they're removing content or it might limit playstyles because there's certain things you can not do with certain tiers of medkits or toolboxes for example. I haven't played in awhile so not 100% sure how the new changes are, but If I could throw out a suggestion that I think would really help ballancing. On the survivor side, 1 to 2 types of every item for survivors would probably be a much easier system to balance around than 4 different tiers of the same items- 1 type of medkit, 1 type of toolbox, 1type of key, 1type of map, 1type of flashlight that actually works(alternatively just make flashlights something common throughout the map- that way instead of wasting bringing in a useful item, like a medkit, you could just drop your medkit midgame, grab a nearby flashlight, then go for a save if your friend's in trouble.) And make these items standard, and free to bring in for every match without having to run out of them or get new ones on the blood-web. the only thing that should have to be earned on the Blood-web is add-ons- but that's automatically easier to balance the game around I feel. Now you have these items standard and free, you can properly balance around them instead of having to balance around a team with no add-on vs a 4 man with all the add-ons. On the map side of things, maybe try standardizing a system for making your maps? I'm not sure the precise formula but they already have different loop types, just have a set easurement of, "X ammount of L-walls must spawn, X ammount of jungle loops. X type of loop can't be placed next to Y type of loop." Etc. etc. I know it might be too late to fix for older maps, but hopefully moving forward newer maps follow some sort of model, that way they don't suck, and we'll get more good maps than bad ones. Also having the option to ban certain maps would just be the bee's knees. On the killer side, since I'm going off my idea for a standard sort of tool model, where tools will always be brought into a game- I feel it'd be alot more benificial for the killer to set up builds, or have their power work on certain tool types. Like Clown's gas could eat at tool boxes(clown's bottles, given that they're corrosive.), Plague's could ruin medkits, etc. etc. Removing nurse. Honestly not sure what the best way to balance nurse would be, outside of removing her- less because she's overpowered(which she is if you're good, let's be honest), just because her power doesn't work well with the game at all. If I had to think up some galaxy brain idea to make nurse balanced- maybe her first blink is the only one that can go through walls, but she can only swing in her second or third blink. Would this work? I honestly don't know, I'm just spitballing ideas.
I feel like the rank system you are proposing is something that would rank how inherently skilled you are by taking into account the variables such as the perks you are using. However, survivors shouldnt be matched against killers in accordance to their inherent skill level. That would mean the system goes "ok, you are a 4-man swf with 4 smol pp builds and Ormond offering, so your victory doesnt mean that much and therefore you wont gain as much mmr from that victory". This means that that 4 man squad isnt gonna face killers that are as strong as expected since the survivors themselves arent that strong, they are just being carried. But does it matter that they are being carried? They are still getting results and that's what matters in a pairing system. It wouldnt be fair for killer players that arent top tier to be faced against those squads, and it wouldnt be fair for a very solid survivor that does decent with only no-mither to be faced against super strong killers just because their inherent skill is very high. The moment you take those variables into account when pairing, you are actually removing their influence on the pairing which is just worse. What you achieve in a match should be taken into account, but how you achieve it shouldnt. It doesnt matter that you are always using keys to escape everytime: if you are using it enough times for it to statistically matter, then you might as well consider that player has a inherent "buff" and therefore he has to be faced against stronger killers who can maybe deal with that kind of bs
The way that Patrick actively mocks people who say they play well, as if it's nothing to be proud of, shows you just how competitive this game truly isn't.
The problem is that as a survivor I can be really good in a match and have the worst mates and thus die and because of that my mmr gets lower and thus I have an even higher chance of playing with even worse mates the next game. And the second enless loop is that if you play against a tunnler and he tunnels you completely than you play the next game against someone with even less mmr and killers with less mmr are more likely to camp or tunnel.
I can't believe we're still talking about this. The new matchmaking is objectively better than the previous one. Is it better for streamers and people in the top 99th percentile of ranking? No, queues are longer and obviously they lose more games than before when they could just stomp their opponents 50 times in a row. For everyone else it's better and more fair in every way. This whole "why can't they just implement MY convoluted ranking system that is definitely not just reinventing the shitty emblem system we all hated?" is fucking ridiculous.
You don't like weird clickbait videos focused around a 30 second clip using BHVRs words as evidence, but conveniently ignore the time they spend afterwards saying things directly contradicting the title of the video? I can understand Scott & other streamers desperate shilling to maintain a status quo where they look like much better players than they actually are, but I don't get why so many players eat up this narrative.
I feel like this MMR system could easily be re-worked with little effort. Make the cap MUCH higher (say like 10000 or something) and have every action taken in the game worth a point value. Heal a health state? 10 points. Unhook a survivor? 50 points. Escape? 200 points. For losing MMR, it could start off with no escape = -150 points. Get hooked -30 points. They could improve it so it calculates how many suvivors were hooked in a game and for every survivor you didn't unhook, it's -10 points. This incentives helping teammates or risk losing mmr, but not so much that you need to go out of your way. Obviously my points are an arbitrary amount, but they really shot themselves (and us) in the foot when the MMR is capped so low.
So they’re saying that they can’t track what you did during the game? Why don’t they just use the Bloodpoint system? Every action in the game gives you bloodpoints, so they could easily look at how much bloodpoints you got for doing certain things. Then depending on how much you got would increase (or decrease if you got under a certain threshold.) your MMR. Like seriously, they said they can’t track what you did when they already have a way to track what you did. As Survivor, you get points for doing gens, getting chased/stunning the killer with pallets, being altruistic, even some for escaping and more. You get points as Killer for hooking, killing, hitting, kicking gens and pallets, and even keeping survivors injured. Now why can’t they make a system that looks at all that stuff, and say “Huh, this survivor got a lot of points from working on generators and being altruistic” or “Hmm, This killer got a lot of points during chases and got a lot of points from hooking/killing”. You can literally even add this on to Scott’s skilled ratio system. The skill ratio would affect how many blood points you’d need to increase your MMR. If you run a bunch of strong things that lower the skill ratio on survivor, then you need a lot more blood points to increase your MMR. Same with killer. To Note, all of this is just with base bloodpoint gain, so BP offerings wouldn’t make you just soar through MMR. If you run BBQ on killer and BP offerings, it’s not gonna help MMR, it’ll just give you the extra BP. Again, I’m not good at game design or really even that smart, but even I can look at somebody’s blood points and see they did a good amount of stuff in that game.
To fix it in the way that they want to would be to simply just count HOW MANY PEOPLE escape and give the whole team MMR based on that number - so if you hide in a bush, did gens and left you would get the same MMR as the person chasing the entire game. Perhaps also tie this in to 4 things you get at the end of the game if you want to distribute to the survivors. And then the killer gains MMR based on how many survivors he killed + how many hooks he got. That's literally the only change they need and it's not far from their current implementation.
They say that they can’t keep track of anything that happens in game other than escapes for mmr, and yet they already have a rough system to track how much of all the different things any one player does in a match in the form of the scoring events. Could they not just attach values to scoring events to track if you have done enough “stuff” to gain or lose an mmr rating?
honestly i was scared for the mmr system. but i’ve been having an overall way better experience. i typically get rank 1 as both killer and survivor if i play enough but i’m always rank 1 survivor. i’m relatively good at the game but when i play swf, we’re homies who are trying to have fun, not try our asses off. bc of that mmr has been great cuz we just fuck around every other game making it fun for us. most of the killers we play against end up being somewhat bad, or fun to play against with the occasional god tier killer
Good to know that even if I do every gen . Save all my teamates. Run and loop the killer pretty well but sadly die, Im considered less skillful than the meg that blow up every skill check , body blocked teammates but got a lucky escape :D
They’ve reached the final stage of grief: Acceptance.
Too bad they still won’t change it.
Me
Bruh, this was joke writing S tier of the gods 💀 😂
Escape = Good
Die = Bad
BHVR MMR after 1+ years of testing.
“I hid the whole game with a key and waited for my teammates to die so I could use hatch. I’m such a pro as a survivor :).” According to the mmr system
@@DarkKiller-0 Apparently hatch gives you nothing, so as if you played no game at all.
@@tooth1539 how do you know?
@@Cameron-or8qw they said that in the q&a. Hatch escapes are ignored by the SBMM system (I.e. no change in points)
@@Cameron-or8qw The devs said so themselves in the QnA
I'm completely convinced that bhvr isn't real and that dbd is a huge case of mass histeria
It does legitimately feel like that sometimes.
Broke: Dbd sucks
Woke: dbd isn’t real
@@rowanbcapr
Broke: DBD sucks
Woke: DBD is a money laundering scheme
I still have the conspiracy theory that DBD is all a Canadian government-funded psychological experiment.
@@Jacob-qr8pl I Canadian, can confirm
“insidious bubbaface” -JottScund 2021
I always call him “Bubbaface” lol
JottScund sounds like damn Star Wars character.
@@Promethe3u5 Scund sounds like a great insult
@@ajkcool that means short in romanian
Ikr
urban evading blendette that hides the whole game and luckily escaped = winner
skillfull and altruistic player running the killer for minutes and unhooking as many teammates as he can but then gets camped to death = loser
I can't. This is too relatable.
Old emblem system at least rewarded interesting and risky gameplay. I would take that over this. This rewards camping /tunneling and hiding/ not being altruistic
It’s so odd to me that they used kills and escapes as the criteria when they already have the BP system, ie the thing that tracks what you did throughout the trial and rewards you accordingly to how well you did. Just ignore anything that increases the amount of BP the player gets and use that the unaltered amount for the program. Perfect system? Of course not, but I’d say it’s much better at determining a player’s skill than kills and escapes do.
I’ve got a question. So what if you’re a really good survivour and then you and the three randoms get slugged by a speed running nurse and killed and none of you get over 5k points? Like you could be good but if you just get rolled one match are you paired against babies the next? Idk exactly what my question is but I just need some clarification. And the nurse themself won’t get many points as it’s not actually a match it’s just haha I sweat to get WR.
Like I agree with the system you’re saying I’m just a little confused
I honestly prefer kills and escapes. The emblem system made even less Sense. You could pip with Legion/Wraith even If you Killed nobody.
@@Valgient Wouldn't the players lose rank/mmr and be thrown into easier matches, whilst the nurse gains rain/mmr and be thrown into harder matches? With baby survivors eventually losing enough games to be put lower, in their balanced place. Doesn't that solve itself?
@@kingcole5977 Yeah but they’re saying it’s based off bp gained and since the nurse speedran the game she doesn’t get many points either so she’ll just stay that rank I guess? Also you can’t lose rank anymore which is dumb but that’s the point in the reward system. I think all players would lose mmr some more than others lol even if they shouldn’t be losing mmr but because of bad teammates they did. Also a baby survivour could just immerse and easily get points for the categories even if they suck which means they’ll be in higher mmr when not suppose to be lol. But yeah it kind of solves itself but not in the way it should imo
No Mither be like: Tremendously increases Rating Ratio
Fuck sake 😂
I beg to differ.
Almost every No Mither I encounter nowadays is a cheater/lagswitcher who is unpickable and/or unhookable. So they just keep picking themselves for free.
@@KatyaAbc575 I mean, while that might be true (I believe you, I've just never seen it) I don't think that people cheating should make it so that people who want a legit challenge get screwed over.
It is so demoralizing to hear the lead designer just straight up say "yes the chad Yui who looped the killer for 4 gens then got face camped while their teammates jacked each other off in the corner is less skilled than the Claudette who hid in a locker the entire game and got hatch."
I had a game yesterday that as a killer made me grind my teeth.
I’ll preface this with I was playing Pig on Midwhich and I had 8 hooks at the end of the game.
I played the match and I had STBFL level 2, I hit 8 stacks at the very end of the game after hitting my obsession over a pallet once.
I had to let 2 people walk past me because I wasn’t tunnelling but I had seen the same 2 people 3x back to back so I let one go, saw the other and walked by, found the third and put him on second hook.
Towards the end of the game I passed by him again and let him go only to then hook the other two followed by him. 2 gens left I had been searching for meg who I did not see a SINGLE TIME, NOT ONCE, NOT EVEN A GLANCE the entire match!!!
She gets out through hatch almost immediately after the 2nd survivor dies and the game ends.
Not once. She should lose 2 pips for that for real. She had 12k BP after escaping through hatch….
I should also add I went locker searching at the end of the game thats why I switched to “towards the end of the game” I had gone for about 40s checking lockers near gens that were not regressing after I kicked them
@@revellations7741 What annoys me is how many points hatch is worth. 7.5k. 5k for surviving. And 2.5k for objectives for some reason. Hatch should only be worth like 2.5k survival only. Key hatch escapes (before the nerf) shouldnt give any.
How often is that Claudette going to escape if she always just hides though? You can't take just one match into account, you have to consider how well they do across multiple games
Not to mention MMR isn't about skill, it's about who gets the better result. Having a higher MMR doesn't mean you are better and it isn't supposed to be like an ELO rating. It's just a tool to see who you should be paired with
@@francescoauricchio4189 Spine chill makes hiding pretty easy and effective. Ratting is the most effective way to win when solo queuing.
What bothers me is how little the devs act like they care. "Eh we know it's broken. Whatever."
Mid chapter is just McLean's dying breath and the game is downhill from here.
Exactly. When I saw that McLean left I gave up on this dumpster fire of a game.
Please I hope, I want this game to die so others can rise :)
You guys say this like McLean wasn't there for all the other patches...
@@AImightywoIf737 He likely wasn’t given as much influence over the previous updates, LOL
@@oatconsumer1513 Clearly, bcz apparently he is just the God of dbd developing
Just use ruin, undying, tinkerer, and corrupt intervention and mmr won't be a problem.
but insidious on bubba
@@tecdek7153 There shall be no arguing with Supreme Leader John Xina.
@@myleg7012 i’m just going off what sir scott said , i am soo sorry 😔💔
Ruin undying isn't even strong unless you have potatoes as survivors. Totems literally just don't last anymore and them nerfing undying to shit doesn't help that at all. On top of that, you're still required to be able to down survivors extremely fast in order to actually get value out of it. It blows my mind how you people still think ruin undying is good. Newsflash: if you're losing to it you're either playing a really good killer or you and/or your teammates aren't as good you/they think.
That's not true. Run all the slowdown you want and you'll still lose when you face top tier survivors. HOWEVER, those survivors are like the Vasto Lorde of dbd. They're extremely rare. Still though, the game is not possible to win at the highest level if you're the killer.
"there's too much nuance to make a real, effective system"
Yes. Exactly.
👏JUST👏 ADD 👏 MORE 👏 RANKS 👏
Make those ranks almost impossible to climb.
For the old ranks not the stupid bronze silver gold
@@Ben_chesmoor this is what I have been saying for a while. Either add more ranks or make the ranks harder to level up. You can do nothing at brown rank and still get a pip. It is way too easy, and it causes everyone to eventually reach red rank, which also means that red ranks is filled with bums and also gods.
If it was harder to pip at each color level, the noobs would stay low and the people who are really good would continue to grow.
A meg sitting in the corner all game, gets everyone killed, and they still "WIN" according to this system
That was probably a Blendette and not a Meg, the Meg had other ways of being toxic.
@@goawayleavemealone2880 baby megs get so cocky. And it was probably a Nea urban evading around the map
@@yurei3714 - It could also have been a Laurie desperately trying not to use DS. Meg, Nea, Laurie and Claudette are the toxic Queens... then Bill, Jake and Leon are honorary toxic Queens.
@@goawayleavemealone2880 Laurie is rare
@@yurei3714 - You don't see her often, but she's a toxic queen when you do.
"Everyone saw it coming but they did it anyway" - story of every bad DBD change.
Patrick: we don’t want to tell people how to play.
Also: you MUST ESCAPE, BY *EXIT GATE ONLY* , TO COUNT IT AS A SURVIVOR-WIN!
I mean if you need to use hatch your team def lost lol
@@zenlavin34 If you NEED to, then yes (unless you need it for a challenge :p), but if you just use it not necessarily. Can take hatch after everyone else left (escaped) too. This should be still possible with new hatch soon is my guess, as it only states it will get visible when only one surv is remaining. But I might be wrong about that as I have not been up to date with the game really ^^
Also until update it is possible to get all 4 through the hatch. Since it needs 5 gens to be completed and everyone alive - I don't see the 'your team def lost'.
This is what happens when they care more about the statistics than the player experience.
Jeff Kaplain from Overwatch once said "The perception of balance is more important than actual statistical balance."
Wish bHVR would listen to him.
ive been playing the game since hag came out and after all that time im finally running out of hope for this game, im usually the master of giving them the benefit of the doubt but hearing them acknowledge they made a poorly functioning system and be okay with it is brutal ugh
Ive been playing it since it came out, Why is rank/mmr important to you?
@@EvilPeppermintHelix
It’s important because the game now pairs people up in matches who are at completely different skill levels (as the game bases ‘skill’ off of ‘escapes’ which is flawed.
"What a surprise." - me who is very surprised and totally didn't see BHVR having issues with their MMR system.
I am actually surprised they decided to acknowledge a problem
I'll be honest, I've always been sure they made the mmr announcement just to meet people's expectations. The ranks never really meant anything other than playtime, so they made the mmr to make people happy.
and perhaps shut up people who strictly compare the ranks, like "oh I'm a rank 1 and I was just put in a team of rank 20's!" I'm sure that's extremely annoying
thats like saying " i copy pasted my homework from wikipedia and told my mom im finished "
@@Kingdomall Seeing that they had to hide ranks in the final test just so the community wouldnt scold them for their shitty system is quite telling
Well. Rank resets were dumb as fk. I don't only play dbd. When I do I got rank 1 and kept rank 1 through out a season. Bit not playing and coming back to rank 20 is boring as fuck.
Shitty teammates and new killers. No joke met a first time trapper one with my 600 hour survivor experience. It was extremely boring. I don't enjoy stomping people. I enjoy a higher level of play. Just making ranking up harder and removing rank resets would fix it.
@@NaJk93 if u remove rank reset then eventually over time every1 even default Megs will be on Red/your ranks ... its what happened before and why we asked for MMR in the first place
Just watched Dowsey's reaction into this lmao
Im worried. I hope he took a breath by now again.
bruh fr LMFAO i legit just came from that vid as well
Lol me too
can you link it?
nvm, found it
Okay, what happened to BHVR?
All of a sudden, they're acknowledging what's bad and trying to actively update the game???
They realized they have to get their shit together because McLean is leaving
VHS seems to be siphoning off players from dbd from the devs who don’t listen at BHVR to devs who do.
@@Gnomechopski they listen for now VHS being a Free game a Is a Fear People who are just dying to jump Games are being blinded to the issues VHS Being a Free Game brings is crazy Because if they Get Lost And Just get money hungry Or They Dont Patch things or fix or Have a good anti cheat It will die like all other games that tried to take on dbd
@@SAR500keyword "IF",but in all seriousness the VHS development seem very genuine and serious about the game so I have faith in them
@@hypermax7975 who is McLean
It's almost as if they had a system that worked in the first place. The BP system. Where you could max out in one or two categories and still pip. It solves the issues feeling like you tried your hardest and still lost, and still caters to the people who keep repeating "ranks don't matter anyways".
"DS would moderately decrease the skill value"
Oh no, the "moderately" virus has jumped from Dbd to Scott.
He's been in there too long, we have to get him out.
I dont even watch DBD anymore i just enjoy watching the content creators, Scott always takes the cake with his takes and the fact that his thought process goes so deep and far into the game. Really do show how much he loves the game and its beyond admirable. I wish the devs would listen he has great ideas
find it funny how he basically said ‘just don’t die’
After quitting this game some time ago, I got back into dark souls 3, and your old videos are really helping me, thanks Scott
BHVRS MMR in a nutshell
"Our expectations where low but holy shit BHVR"
I always make sure not to tunnel or camp, i just have fun and try to make sure everyone, myself included, has a fun game. If i end with 8 hooks and 0 kills i consider that a win for me, I did a lot, it was a close one, everyone had a good time, if youre telling me that 8 hooks is a complete L thats so dumb, toxicity is about to go crazy.
I just play the game, I completely gave up on the escape/death ranking. I just play to pass time at this point, doesn't even give me fun anymore.
at that point id find a new game, sorry to hear that.
This is the precise reason I quit the game. I wasn’t having fun but I was still playing just to play and then thought to myself why not just spend my time on something I actually enjoy.
@@runewarrior43 the problem with this concept is how much hours someone has spent on a game in hopes that the devs would do something better to bring back the ‘fun’. Also these same individuals have probably spent 100’s supporting the game like DLC’s, Skins etc. I feel the same tho, DBD is just me playing a few times every couple of months then uninstalling
lol get a life then
@@sandevastated1 I get that hell I’m one of the people whose spent hundred on DLC and cosmetics. What it really comes down to is wether you find your time and happiness more valuable then the money and time already spent which will be different for everyone.
What if you split perks and addons into tiers based on how often they get used. The more common your perk/addon is the less mmr you get. They could be split based on community usage that could update weekly or something
That could potentially get manipulated if a killer or survivor brings 3 meta perks and 1 random trash perk to try offset it.
@@caldw615 I mean good, that's one less meta perk they're using I don't see anything wrong with that
@@SerbianKnifeFight Then the devs look at the stats and go "Well clearly monstrous shrine is perfectly fine because all these killers are using it with ruin/undying" and will use that to justify not buffing perks that actually need buffs. Incentivising people to use uncommon perks for the sake of MMR is bad for balance as it scews the numbers.
You know what? I'm done, i'm done. I'm uninstalling, i have so many other options out there for good relaxing game expereiences in witch i don't feel stressed as fuck going into a match. Like at this point the game is not fun anymore, it feels like a chore to play killer, survivor on the other hand you can SWF with some friends and still have fun loosing, Like i literally don't see any point in playing killer no more, i'm running the same 4 perks every game, going against the same surviors with the same perks every game.
Nobody is trying new stuff, every match is the same. You also got so much more shit to do as a killer, you gotta gen pressure early, you gotta learn to juke loops, you gotta deal with fellas blocking on hook, you gotta learn all the killers and their kit in actual machmaking, not even a way to practice them outside of the Q, you gotta wait for unbrakable, DS, Deliverance play around BT, Spine Chill, Adrenaline is just too much man. I don't even get mad over it i'm just bored, just straight up bored and tired. I literally feel a feeling of freedom every time i'm playing something else then DBD.
Maybe the game wasn't for me from the start, maybe i stayed because i've spent money and didn't wanted to feel like i wasted em', maybe i stayed for the comunity or the tought that will get better, maybe i just love to bitch around about the game after 3k hours spent or maybe is just time to move on to something new, enjoy some other stuff or just take a long brake either way i know that i'm just done.
Doing the same thing. Just bought a Logitech g920 wheel and pedal so I can play f1. I'm having such a great time. Never going to play dbd ever again
Try dread hunger. It's alot more fun.
You really do need to admire BHVR for coming up with Skill Based matchmaking that doesn't take player skill into account. That's innovation right there.
Behavior: We did something wrong.
Everyone on DBD: Yea, we knew before you said that
I have a concern with a ratio'd system based on builds. With perks like DS and BT and Unbreakable, they change the trial in ways that help all other survivors in some way shape or form. Someone using DS could make a chase last 5 minutes longer and give survivors all the time in the world to do objectives, but only that single survivor will suffer from a lower progress ratio. Now if it was calculated to change the MMR ratio of your teamates, then you could just run a crutch build with tremendously degenerative affects towards all other survivors and prevent them from being scored fairly regardless of THEIR build. I think just adding a skill cap is the best option. That way, it is possible to get a maximum amount of "skill"(for lack of a better term) per trial. That way, using godlike perks simply makes it easier to reach that ceiling and maybe go just a little further if you do exceptional. Im not sure if im making much sense or if I'm just describing the last ranking system but i feel like having a semi-flexible ceiling per trial is an alright way to judge the broken placement of the game.
The fact that they call it SKILLED based match making, and then dumb it down even more from the emblem system, is just such an insult to all their playerbase.
Skilled base matchmaking is so fucking broken for killer, I recently got plague and I got put up against survivors who had played the game for thousands of hours.
The emblem system tracks so much more than SBMM does:
Lightbringer: Generator repair progress, generators completed, exit gates opened, dull/hex totems cleansed, being chased while other survivors are repairing/cleansing.
Unbroken: Time alive, being put into the dying state.
Benevolent: Being hit, healing, healing another survivor, being hooked, unhooking someone, safe unhooks, protection hits, helping another survivor wiggle free (i.e; pallet/flashlight saves), hook sabotages - all with modifiers for basement and after powering the exit gates.
Evader: Being in the killer's terror radius, chase duration, escaping a chase (with modifiers for chase duration), getting hit, stunning a killer.
Gatekeeper: Time generators remain unrepaired, exit gates being opened.
Devout: Sacrifices, Moris, bleedouts, disconnects, hooks, whether or not the killer hooks all 4 survivors.
Malicious: Hits, hook states, survivors healed, survivors escaping your grasp.
Chaser: Finding a survivor and initiating chase, losing the survivor, chase duration, hitting a survivor, proximity to a hooked survivor.
Surely they could have taken some of this data, assigned appropriate numerical values to each, and calculated MMR from that? Hell, they could have kept using the emblem system but uncapped and it would have been better than this kills vs escapes atrocity.
come on scott they only had a year to design skill based matchmaking give them at least a few more to realize add-ons, perks, and offerings drastically effect the outcome of the match /s
Side note:
You could easily account for which perks/add-ons are stronger based on the percentage of how many wins (chases/escapes/kills) a killer or survivor gets in matches over all players
By that logic the nurse is the worst killer in the game
@@grilledforeskin7327 NERF PIG!
@@grilledforeskin7327 Which means the good nurses will climb really fast and get to max mmr where they belong. Seems fine to me.
@@grilledforeskin7327 She IS, for most people. She only IS good If you are pretty good.
@@rekrap4348 No, good nurses will climb regardless of any modifier. Most players are bad nurses, so going based off of all players would have incorrectly considered nurse terrible.
Imagine everyone runs pinky finger clown now and they nerf him because of his high kill rate
''According To The Statistics''
Today I accidentally ran a little experiment on MMR. I was streaming for a friend as a killer, and he wanted to play against me, so I picked a killer with lower MMR, and we were searching and living lobbies for a little bit. Then I changed killer to something i play more, I ended up in the same previous lobby, I swapped to my least played killer, same lobby, to my most played killer, same lobby, mid played killers, first timing level 1 killers, all of them ended up in the same lobby (Sorry to those 4 survivors that must have been waiting forever)
Bruh, literally, my matches are either WAY too easy or SUPER sweaty.
The one thing that stands out to me in the QnA, is the fact that they said they had no plans on adding a Graphic Setting for consoles.
Ah so that's why I've been having keys in every second game as killer. Escaped = you won, heres your MMR
Justin's face through the entire video is an accurate representation of the engaged DBD community to the response.
so if they where not aiming to make a effective system, why on earth SPEND 2 YEARS OF RESOURCES ON SOMETHING NO ONE ASKED FOR
Modernize the game for investors
For survivor, they also said that you get a higher MMR rating if you are the last to die. Their rating not only uses escapes as a point of reference to determine your MMR "score" for the match.
Everybody: MMR is stupid.
The Devs: MMR is stupid.
Why the fuck is it in the game then
To be fair I believe that if they balanced matchmaking around your loadout, you could take advantage of that system by just loading into your game with nothing and then adding whatever you like before the game starts. So they would need to have you only be able to choose your perks/add-ons before you queue.
Before reset I was Iridescent 3, I don't have time to play a ton so I'm slowly climbing back 1 game at a time. I'm at Gold 3 right now. I played a match and destroyed 4 Ash 1 survivors, cool, ranked up a little bit, but my next match was against 4 Iridescent 1 survivors each with 1,000+ hours (I have about 200). I got all 4 of them to death hook, the game took a long time, I out mind gamed all 4 of them a few times, and I ended up getting 1 kill.... and I lost a rank point. I think the game also needs to take into consideration the skill gap between the opposing teams, because for how well I played against 4 Iridescent 1 survivors at gold 3, I think I should've at least not lost a rank point for that match.
No mither would be the king of the survivor skill ratio system. I can't help but chuckle at that thought.
NO MITHER META!!!!
I actually implemented a glicko2 based MMR system, so I can give a pretty informed perspective.
Judging in game actions:
All of the actions that Scott lists are actions that make it more likely that more of your teammates escape. However, you get into a balancing act of assigning values to each of these properties. And these values might change based on what patch you are on or what build you are using. Against some killers, pre-dropping every pallet is the right call. Whats happening is that these values are proxy values for the actual value we care about, the total number of survivors that escape.
Adjusting based on addons:
The objective of a good system is to estimate the chance each team will "win". If a killer takes iri addons into a match 100 games in a row, their rating would be way higher than if they did not do this. However, this is good. By giving them a higher rating, the system is marking them a scarier killer, and it is right to do this, as they are likely to bring iri addons in their future matches as well. With no knowledge of the concept of addons, the system has successfully taken into account the threat that a player who uses them poses. If they repent for their sins and stop using iri addons, a good glicko2 system should be able to adjust their rating back down within like 10 games.
"This system is the same as the red rank system, Every killer will eventually reach 1900 rating"
This is true, and the fact that it is even possible is mind numbing. Rating is traditionally, by definition, a proxy for win rate. Two players with a rating difference of 100 points would have a 36/64 matchup in a standard rating system for example. The thing thats funny about this is that they copied the aesthetics of a rating system (Numerical scale usually ranging from 1000 - 2000) without actually understanding it at all.
Reasonable solution
A reasonable system could just count the number of survivors that escape, and plug that number into a modified glicko2 formula where 0 escapes is more "winny" for killer and 4 escapes is more "winny" for survivors, then divvy the ratings accordingly. Yes, there will be noise. But there will always be noise, it's literally impossible to account for changes in players skill or play style. This system would be accurate enough to provide the results that BHVR wants.
I cant post links in youtube comments it seems but if anyone wants to find my work search "terminal correlation one forum" and search "glicko"
I enjoy, not just your insight but also your open-mindness to these topics and I say this as a survivor main. thanks for these videos if I go back to watching Twitch killer videos I'm definitely going to check your schedule.
Scott: "This is all fucked. Let's talk about it"
Dowsey: "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME"
The blood point system discussed in a video not so long ago really solved all issues for rank imo. Having 20k or 25k be a cap for 1 pip and under is a depip. You can literally weigh peoples actions in blood points based on the value of the action. Like having a killer miss their swing while vaulting would give way more BP than say, vaulting it regularly without danger. They have archive missions dedicated for this stuff so the code is already there.
Currently in the game RIGHT NOW they can calculate the length of chase time in the boldness category so they easily can make an MMR system for people who run the killer for the whole game!
The biggest red flag in the world was that their "mmr" system had a max cap.
Shows they fundamentally don't understand how the concept is supposed to work.
The thing is that BHVR endorses every type of gameplay. Camping is valid, tunneling as well. That means that they also endorse immersive gamers, the people that only hides during the match. For them they are equally valid as the God loopers.
For us, we know that the proper way to play is sometimes taking aggro when the match requires it, you need to be proactive. But they don't wanna tell the players how to play their game.
I also understand that, as much as I hate the one guy that only hides and doesn't take pressure from their teammates.
Well boys, VHS is coming out soon hope to see you there
BHVRs slogan may as well be "Incompetence, with a hint of laziness and *occasional* effort; soon abandoned.."
Those mad lads. They did it. They really did it. The community asked for a better ranking system, and BHVR committed to the “you asked for this, so we nerfed blank” joke by *nerfing their own ranking system.*
They said its effective to fulfill its main objective for MMR which is to prevent stomp matches which from my experience has been on point. But there are rare occasions of double recharge nurse or ring + amulet spirit which should be accounted for same would go for BNP and medkits but there is no lock in mechanism for queue where they could account for it.
i play more killer than survivor but I've notice in my survivor games I'll loop goofy (assumed newer) killers for 2 gens to pop, get a bunch of unhooks on others, go back during end game collapse after i complete last gen and opening exit gate to unhook poor newbie survivor with my BT active so another can escape but I go down to goofy killer and teammates just leave. Since that counts as a loss, subsequent games include teammates that don't heal others, unhook, they go down easily in short chase and if you're unlucky enough to get killed again its a positive feedback loop of mmr tanking until the games aren't even close to your caliber and it just simply isn't fun to participate in.
The 1st minute is what its like to find a true ace main
With them having MMR be hidden, it just being centered around kills and escapes, and, iirc, him at one point saying something along the lines of "play how you want, the system will sort out where your playstyle fits among others," it sounds like they don't even want it to be a 'skill-based' matchmaking so much as a way to match you against/with people that play the way you do. Except it's still a little too vague for that and the only difference I feel is longer killer queue times...
The system is completely broken with no easy fix. There's ways to make things a bit less broken with the way things currently are but as a whole, the entire system needs to be either scrapped or overhauled and since they've already admitted that there's no way they can realistically make an actual working system, why bother trying?
As for making things a bit less broken, at least as far as survivor is concerned without having to add a bunch of nuance that takes everything into account is to have the survivors evaluated as a team instead of individually. If 3 or 4 survivors escape, all survivors in the match go up in MMR. If all survivors die or only 1 escapes, all the survivors go down in MMR. If 2 survivors escape, then all the survivors go up or down in MMR based on the MMR of the killer they played against.
This allows players to normalize their MMR after many games. For example, the Dwight player that hides in the corner of the map and does nothing every game he's in is not contributing to the win. In those games, the killer is far more likely to kill the other 3 survivors because it's essentially a 3v1. So, it doesn't matter if the Dwight escapes through the hatch at the end, he (and the rest of his team) will still lose MMR because as a team, they lost the match.
The players that actively contribute to the objectives, IE: doing generators and running the killer around as effectively as possible, utilizing the map's resources optimally are far more likely to consistently have their teams escape. So, even if the guy that ran the killer around for 5 gens gets hyper focused once the exit gates are opened and Bubba camped to death, their MMR will still increase because their team escaped and the killer will lose MMR because again, the team escaped.
After a dozen or more games, MMR will begin to normalize. The survivors that simply do not contribute to the success of the team's escape will eventually begin to lose MMR until they're faced against killers with low enough MMR that they can't win even the 3v1 games and the survivors that can effectively run the killer around for 5 generators will reach a higher MMR until they come across killers that can effectively catch them.
Is this a perfect solution? No. The entire system is broken and should probably be scrapped. However, with minimal effort, it would be a better implementation of essentially what we already have which, while not completely fixes the problem, does at least address some of the most blatant problems with the current MMR system.
This is probably the best idea I've seen for mmr. It'd also add a lot more interesting decisions, since now you have to actually consider "I need to go save my teammate endgame, so that I can win" which is good for the game as a whole. Also the meta would shift from selfish perks to more team oriented perks, which I think is also good for the game
The most amazing thing to me is that the devs took years to make this sbmm to in the end it only take into account your escapes or kills. if anyone has the capability to make a good sbmm for dbd it would be the devs with all their cosmetic and dlc money. this bs of it being too complicated is bs, they couldve done it but they decided to copy past old matchmaking and say its "new". Well i felt hopefull for a whole week very nice.
For the 100% trial chase, what if a bug appeared not recording the chase? MMR would fail and then multiply that by other MMR unhooks, gen time, healing time, etc failing with a bug then MMR fails more frequently and is obvious there are bugs in the system. Escape and time played are two easy values to record to avoid people complaining about the bugs. Now imagine a game breaking bug where the killer couldn't hear a slugged survivor, how long has that been in the game?
i think for me the most important things would be the chasetime, ressources wasted doing so, and how little downtime you had doing nothing. When you have a long time not doing gens or something like that, especially while someone is getting chased it should punish that.
"No doubt you've seen this already"
My guy I just got out of school wait up🏃♂️💨
The ratio system is such a brilliant idea. Sad it will never be implemented
Honestly rank does somehow matter, I was a green/purpule rank killer and the SBMM often give 2 red ranks and 2 low rank survivor. The red ranks can loop me for minutes while the low ranks keep hiding all the game.. it really sucks to play killer right now for me I lost completly the motivation, I only get kills during end game camping it's so boring and stressfull please just give me people with the same rank, back then the MM was way better than now...
5:08 Or just look at the points that the survivor gained throughout the match? It would be a lot more easier to implement than a chase timer in my opinion..
Now if only they'd figure out that 4 kills, not 2, is the only reasonable way to define a killer win.
Shocker, it totally worked out for COD and Fortnite.
Breh
It works in pretty much any other competitive game tbh
@@robybartez7942 Problem is DBD isn’t meant to be a competitive game.
@@facecampingbubba4656 yes that's why it doesn't work. Mmr doesn't take in consideration the items/addons you bring plus if you play in a swf etc.. doesn't make much sense to me. They should just remove mmr altogether
does not work in cod
what Patrick said made me want to punch my monitor
This is how mmr should be
1 - You can see your own number.
2 - Remove the cap.
3 - Its optional but let everyone start at zero, after a few months it will sort itself out.
4 - The way it goes: Killer gets 4k = +2, 3k = +1, 2k = no change, 1k = -1, 0k = -2
5 - Same with survivors but instead of kills its escapes and it counts for everyone, so if you get camped the entire game and the rest escape, all survivors all rank up by 1.
6 - BP bonuses the higher rank you are for motivation. (like idk if ur rank 13 its +%13 or sum shit).
Tell me its not the best system.
About the addons and perks, if you bring strong stuff that makes you more likely to win then you will win, rank up and then come across opponents who also bring strong stuff so it will even out at the end.
I imagine if they implemented Scott's admittedly logical system there would be SOOOO MUCH debate about each and every number or coefficient or whatever. Numbers would be debated a lot I imagine, just like everything is already.
Maybe something like point buy system would work for dbd, like every item, perk and addon(not rarity based) has cost in points and you have pool of points that you spend on them while in lobby. Like army building in wh40k works. Some killers get more points to spend, some killers like nurse get less. Imho it would make meta in perks much more flexible and dynamic. Problem is that it will take time and effort from BHVR to pull it out and i'm afraid that it is too much to ASK from them
At least they're admitting it. I would almost be afraid they'd look at the numbers, see more Killers in high MMR and decide that every Killer needs a nerf despite it being their own system that caused the discrepancy.
"If a team wants to win, they can probably modify the match in such a way that they can win without actually being better than the opponents". This is 100% true. Whenever I play killer and I'm tired of losing, the 3 gen method works 95% of the time, even when I recognize that my opponents are a million times better than me. It's scummy but the fact that that's reality sucks for mmr.
If they are allowing you to set up a 3 gen, they might not be as good as you think.
A 3 gen is usually a blunder on the survivors part. As killer, even as hag or trapper, as long as 2 survivors are alive, you cant patrol the 3 gens all at the same time.
You know what, Im going to use this fucking 3 gens method, Im tired of losing to assholes swf.
I've said before and I'll say it again, if there's 4 survivors alive and they lose to a 3 gen that's a huge mistake on their part. It's really not that hard to do the last gen with 4 people alive because no matter what there will always be 3 people you aren't chasing who can easily do the last gen or split pressure on gens.
The true irony is that we're asking for the emblem system to determine MMR.
Does any other game considers what you're using to rate your skill? Imagine you're playing LoL and the game goes "So you're playing off-meta? That will give you more rating!" Doesn't work because it's a nightmare to keep changing this according to every single patch.
Not off-meta, more like you can't pick your runes in which league would 100% account for that because being at an objective disadvantage not being considered would be stupid.
No you're right. Things like items and load out in a game like LoL are too variable whereas objectives are a more consistent measure of skill. But...even to that point, there are plenty of sites that track the WR of specific items and champ match ups etc. In an asymmetrical game, there's not really an equivalent measure outside of comparing killer vs survivor builds. Which just proves how mmr in DBD can't be expected to work as intended.
@@AmandaDuncil also, for survivors, would the perks and items OTHERS bring affect your rating? Because they make it easier for you aswell.
It's counter intuitive to punish people for optimizing. You want to climb ranks, so you bring what gives you the best chance of winning. For both LoL and DBD that would mean character and builds. And then you'd receive less rating because you're going for the optimal.
@@PsychoMachado meta is only a dirty word in dbd because neither the devs nor the community know what this game is supposed to be
The sad thing is I think they had KINDA of a good thing going with the emblems ratings... With little tuning (taking into account for example killers with insta downs that usually get less chaser emblems and so on so forth) they could have based their MMR system solely on that! Emblems already take into account chases, gens, unhooks, heals, etc... With a FEW tweaks it could have been a perfect starting point for the MMR, in my opinion!
Base MMR on BP score rather than kills/escapes, because kills/escapes still factor in, they just aren't the ONLY thing that factors in, and playing for score encourages both sides to play in a manner that is more fun (ie engaging in more chases, hook rescues, etc and NOT just hook camping for kills or Gen rushing.)
I feel like with all the variables that come with making this game harder to balance, the solution would just be to lower the variables. Like, do we really need all these different tiers of medkits, toolboxes, and a buttload of tiered add-ons? I feel like trimming some of the fat should be the first step in making an MMR, but at this point they can't do it because then people would complain they're removing content or it might limit playstyles because there's certain things you can not do with certain tiers of medkits or toolboxes for example.
I haven't played in awhile so not 100% sure how the new changes are, but If I could throw out a suggestion that I think would really help ballancing. On the survivor side, 1 to 2 types of every item for survivors would probably be a much easier system to balance around than 4 different tiers of the same items- 1 type of medkit, 1 type of toolbox, 1type of key, 1type of map, 1type of flashlight that actually works(alternatively just make flashlights something common throughout the map- that way instead of wasting bringing in a useful item, like a medkit, you could just drop your medkit midgame, grab a nearby flashlight, then go for a save if your friend's in trouble.) And make these items standard, and free to bring in for every match without having to run out of them or get new ones on the blood-web. the only thing that should have to be earned on the Blood-web is add-ons- but that's automatically easier to balance the game around I feel. Now you have these items standard and free, you can properly balance around them instead of having to balance around a team with no add-on vs a 4 man with all the add-ons.
On the map side of things, maybe try standardizing a system for making your maps? I'm not sure the precise formula but they already have different loop types, just have a set easurement of, "X ammount of L-walls must spawn, X ammount of jungle loops. X type of loop can't be placed next to Y type of loop." Etc. etc. I know it might be too late to fix for older maps, but hopefully moving forward newer maps follow some sort of model, that way they don't suck, and we'll get more good maps than bad ones. Also having the option to ban certain maps would just be the bee's knees.
On the killer side, since I'm going off my idea for a standard sort of tool model, where tools will always be brought into a game- I feel it'd be alot more benificial for the killer to set up builds, or have their power work on certain tool types. Like Clown's gas could eat at tool boxes(clown's bottles, given that they're corrosive.), Plague's could ruin medkits, etc. etc.
Removing nurse. Honestly not sure what the best way to balance nurse would be, outside of removing her- less because she's overpowered(which she is if you're good, let's be honest), just because her power doesn't work well with the game at all. If I had to think up some galaxy brain idea to make nurse balanced- maybe her first blink is the only one that can go through walls, but she can only swing in her second or third blink. Would this work? I honestly don't know, I'm just spitballing ideas.
VHS is just looking better and better every day
I feel like the rank system you are proposing is something that would rank how inherently skilled you are by taking into account the variables such as the perks you are using. However, survivors shouldnt be matched against killers in accordance to their inherent skill level. That would mean the system goes "ok, you are a 4-man swf with 4 smol pp builds and Ormond offering, so your victory doesnt mean that much and therefore you wont gain as much mmr from that victory". This means that that 4 man squad isnt gonna face killers that are as strong as expected since the survivors themselves arent that strong, they are just being carried. But does it matter that they are being carried? They are still getting results and that's what matters in a pairing system. It wouldnt be fair for killer players that arent top tier to be faced against those squads, and it wouldnt be fair for a very solid survivor that does decent with only no-mither to be faced against super strong killers just because their inherent skill is very high. The moment you take those variables into account when pairing, you are actually removing their influence on the pairing which is just worse.
What you achieve in a match should be taken into account, but how you achieve it shouldnt. It doesnt matter that you are always using keys to escape everytime: if you are using it enough times for it to statistically matter, then you might as well consider that player has a inherent "buff" and therefore he has to be faced against stronger killers who can maybe deal with that kind of bs
The way that Patrick actively mocks people who say they play well, as if it's nothing to be proud of, shows you just how competitive this game truly isn't.
The problem is that as a survivor I can be really good in a match and have the worst mates and thus die and because of that my mmr gets lower and thus I have an even higher chance of playing with even worse mates the next game.
And the second enless loop is that if you play against a tunnler and he tunnels you completely than you play the next game against someone with even less mmr and killers with less mmr are more likely to camp or tunnel.
I can't believe we're still talking about this. The new matchmaking is objectively better than the previous one. Is it better for streamers and people in the top 99th percentile of ranking? No, queues are longer and obviously they lose more games than before when they could just stomp their opponents 50 times in a row. For everyone else it's better and more fair in every way. This whole "why can't they just implement MY convoluted ranking system that is definitely not just reinventing the shitty emblem system we all hated?" is fucking ridiculous.
You don't like weird clickbait videos focused around a 30 second clip using BHVRs words as evidence, but conveniently ignore the time they spend afterwards saying things directly contradicting the title of the video? I can understand Scott & other streamers desperate shilling to maintain a status quo where they look like much better players than they actually are, but I don't get why so many players eat up this narrative.
I feel like this MMR system could easily be re-worked with little effort. Make the cap MUCH higher (say like 10000 or something) and have every action taken in the game worth a point value. Heal a health state? 10 points. Unhook a survivor? 50 points. Escape? 200 points. For losing MMR, it could start off with no escape = -150 points. Get hooked -30 points. They could improve it so it calculates how many suvivors were hooked in a game and for every survivor you didn't unhook, it's -10 points. This incentives helping teammates or risk losing mmr, but not so much that you need to go out of your way.
Obviously my points are an arbitrary amount, but they really shot themselves (and us) in the foot when the MMR is capped so low.
„Its not just based on escaping.“
Me: „Oh Really?!“
I can’t believe these people can call themselves “Devs” With how incompetent they are.
So they’re saying that they can’t track what you did during the game? Why don’t they just use the Bloodpoint system? Every action in the game gives you bloodpoints, so they could easily look at how much bloodpoints you got for doing certain things. Then depending on how much you got would increase (or decrease if you got under a certain threshold.) your MMR.
Like seriously, they said they can’t track what you did when they already have a way to track what you did. As Survivor, you get points for doing gens, getting chased/stunning the killer with pallets, being altruistic, even some for escaping and more. You get points as Killer for hooking, killing, hitting, kicking gens and pallets, and even keeping survivors injured.
Now why can’t they make a system that looks at all that stuff, and say “Huh, this survivor got a lot of points from working on generators and being altruistic” or “Hmm, This killer got a lot of points during chases and got a lot of points from hooking/killing”.
You can literally even add this on to Scott’s skilled ratio system. The skill ratio would affect how many blood points you’d need to increase your MMR. If you run a bunch of strong things that lower the skill ratio on survivor, then you need a lot more blood points to increase your MMR. Same with killer.
To Note, all of this is just with base bloodpoint gain, so BP offerings wouldn’t make you just soar through MMR. If you run BBQ on killer and BP offerings, it’s not gonna help MMR, it’ll just give you the extra BP.
Again, I’m not good at game design or really even that smart, but even I can look at somebody’s blood points and see they did a good amount of stuff in that game.
To fix it in the way that they want to would be to simply just count HOW MANY PEOPLE escape and give the whole team MMR based on that number - so if you hide in a bush, did gens and left you would get the same MMR as the person chasing the entire game. Perhaps also tie this in to 4 things you get at the end of the game if you want to distribute to the survivors. And then the killer gains MMR based on how many survivors he killed + how many hooks he got. That's literally the only change they need and it's not far from their current implementation.
It's like they've forgotten that they have both a BP and Emblem system
Going to start hiding all game and use all those keys I never used. Escape = Skill according to Patrick
They say that they can’t keep track of anything that happens in game other than escapes for mmr, and yet they already have a rough system to track how much of all the different things any one player does in a match in the form of the scoring events. Could they not just attach values to scoring events to track if you have done enough “stuff” to gain or lose an mmr rating?
honestly i was scared for the mmr system. but i’ve been having an overall way better experience. i typically get rank 1 as both killer and survivor if i play enough but i’m always rank 1 survivor. i’m relatively good at the game but when i play swf, we’re homies who are trying to have fun, not try our asses off. bc of that mmr has been great cuz we just fuck around every other game making it fun for us. most of the killers we play against end up being somewhat bad, or fun to play against with the occasional god tier killer
2 Years in the making for this POS system
Good to know that even if I do every gen . Save all my teamates. Run and loop the killer pretty well but sadly die, Im considered less skillful than the meg that blow up every skill check , body blocked teammates but got a lucky escape :D