Never really considered the dismounting potenital as something important for cav, but after the druzhinnik video i tried dismounting them and mixing them in infantry. The resulting infantry blob just annihilated anything it stepped on - cavalry, infantry, archers. Actually a really solid tactical option if you feel like having cav in the fight is not crucial.
Sometimes you literally have too, dismounting is necessary if you don’t want to take severe losses in town battles. Horses will get easily stuck in the narrow roads with blobs of infantry. When you’re in late game defending settlements you do town fights really often when enemy Vassals raid your villages.
Yes, i am awere i completely forgot to record the Horse armor bit. quite unfortunate since i had a very informative section for the Horse. DId you know it's the tallest horse in the game?
probably for a potential tier list that will add visuals and graphs to better explain the reasons behind the rankings. As for these type of videos i think the current format is fine, oftentimes good but not great armor can't carry a bad sidearm, so the breakdown of the tests gives a better indication. As always stuff is subject to change, if i see more people requesting this change i'll add it to the format
@@LyonExodus I really like your current "bite size" format. Its easy to watch and covers everything important. Would be cool to see you do a full units of the game series tho, like the master tomb of LyonExodus unit analysis!
@@LyonExodus yeah, like same thing you do for the high teirs in the current videos, but for all troops in a faction. You could call them like "Troop Bibles" or the "complete guide to" whatever faction you cover in the video
The Virgin Khan's Guard vs the Chad Khuzait Heavy Horse Archer enjoyer. Even the Heavy Horse Archer could stand to lose their horse armour in favour of more mobility and speed. But it's TW that had 2 years to balance the game but couldn't.
it feels to me like TW is down to balance every faction but when it comes to the Khuzait they seem to have a sweatspot for them. Maybe it's because their faction style wasn't good in warband or maybe the guy in charge of the troops is biased.
@@LyonExodus Funnily enough the Cataphracts are also one of the 2 troops that spear brace while dismounted. The other is the Pikeman,but we don't talk about Pikemans
Yeah, we don't talk about the Pikeman. I wanted to gather footage for the 20m Vlandian recap and damn, they managed to lose in the same scenario as the Catas in this video. Like what's they bloody purpose other than medicine farming?
been pretty disappointed with how ai cavalry sucks at couching lances, so this unit works well in that it doesn't even have that option and just stabs. Haven't used them in ages as Khan's guard just seemed better but I'm probably going to do an empire play through soon. looking forward to the palatine guard video as they're quite a bit better with the extra quiver now.
Catas are possibly the only cavarly that feels like working well. Their armor and the fact that they won't even use the spear but the 1H sword when told to shield wall makes them quite a killing machine. Obviously not on par with the Khan's that can simply kill without getting touched but if you are looking for that Templar charge feeling than this guys should do.
@@notimeforspace2477 i prefer shield wall. not that much for the spear or sword thing but because they deal with arrows better and prioritize defense when in 1v1 or worse situations. You surely have seen cavalry getting stuck in a small infantry formation or against another horseman. Shield wall helps in that scenario, as long as you use the charge command. If you plan to move them from one place to the next then line or something else is better.
So, in 1.8 melee cavalry able to dominate T1 and T2 infantry units (LOL) but gets completley decimated by higher ranks if not supported by friendly infantry. Good job TW, made infantry great again but forgot that horsemen cost almost 3 to 4 times more denars to upgrade. That`s why everyone crying about Khan`s to be OP. Of course, because they are able to use their weapons properly
It's one of those things where needing to have the best units is more the issue, rather than which it is. By the time we've played enough to have used them all in different ways and know which is the best, we shouldn't really need to use them - they're a crutch for the new player and handy for the AI to survive. Instead we see people outnumbering the enemy 3 to 1 and still using them. I'm much more impressed and interested in the playthroughs where someone is taking over the world with average units, rather than the elite. I mean, obviously it can be done with the best.. Hunting larger more powerful parties rather than bullying Looters and recruits with a Cataphract/Khan's Guard horde. Kinda like when we were kids, if ya were good at a sport or something, ya were good - you didn't need the most expensive football boots or best tennis racquet to be good. It's the 'Great! You can do it with the best kit and all the advantages but can you do it without all that!?' - and I dunno if it's more rewarding or it's just about doing the thing.. Personally think the Cataphracts are probably the best "F1+F3/F6" cav, others seemingly need a little (to a lot) more attention to get the best out of them but I'm more interested in what the worst/cheapest unit is that I can counter the Cataphracts, Fians or Khan's Guard with. Little note on Stats - I'd love to see what the differences between the units with the whole taken into account. Not just the numbers a unit may have in One Handed - but what the "Combat Effectiveness" is; taking into account encumbrance from armour, the weapon handling and swing speed, whether there are any relevant perks/captaincy bonuses that'd have an effect. We focus a lot on the protection from the armour but not how much it slows down the swing of a sword or reloading of a bow/crossbow. Plenty about how many HP a shield has but fewer pay attention to what it weighs - a unit may have 20 more Athletics than the rest and be 'S tier' as a result but at the same time be carrying enough extra weight for it to be irrelevant - similarly a unit can have a higher One Handed skill but poor handling/slow swinging weapon, which is the reason they've been given the higher skill to compensate, yet we quote the misleading stats (I don't mean in this video..).
Thank a lot for your lengthy comment. Seeing people like you interested in all of that was the main reason i played the game with all kinds of units and never really abused the OP or good ones. You probably would have loved watching me stream this game back in the day. As of now i might, one day, return with more testing style of content, and a bit of streaming too. Thanks for the comment again, it did spark a bit of a nostalgic feeling in my Bannerlord enjoyer heart Enjoy your time with the game Sir.
@@LyonExodus lol yeh sorry, not of the Twitter generation (and usually on an old enough video that I don't expect a response lol) but every now and then I'm prepared to be the black sheep. Appreciate the reply. 3897.5 vanilla hours since 1.5.7 for me, though barely 500 since launch - so it's nice to find a CC that cares about guiding players and not simply giving the answers already known. I'm sure I can find the old vods if they're up on Twitch. Just started a Poacher-only Robin Hood playthrough on the back of the video, stirred the old pot lol
Definetily and probably THE best looking troop. It's the most Elite, most prestigious looking unit in the game. Whem you see them, it's like you're looking at an armored legendary elite soldier.
You claim every video that cavalry doesn't have it easy, but never explain your point and I'm confused. In my point of view cavalry is the strongest type of unit. An army of 50 cataphracts or banner knights will win against any even number of infantry. They have it pretty easy.
maybe not weak but the Bucs other than shooting are very fragile. and the Xbowman lost a lot with the 1.8. accuracy reduction for crossbows and the extra quiver for the Palatine.
From my last row of testings they are the 2nd best in general KD but just 4th best Vs Low tiers. It shows how much that little nerf to blunt DMG impacted a unit that was by far the best after the Fian in melee
they are all solid units that's for sure. i would say they lack a powerful combo like other factions. but none of their troops are weak for sure, even the mid low tiers are some of the best around.
Just curious, since the troop balance in the vanilla game is purely dogshit, have you ever thought about making a troop rebalance mod based on your tests?
yes. after i am done with the videos and the channel has gathered more visibility i plan to make a post to invite some modders to create excately that, if possible i also would like to change the AI lords perks and skills to make the game more challenging.
The cavalry AI sucks too much. You have to constantly make it move or risk loosing it. If I get attacked by enemy cavalry and I order my cavalry to charge, so I can deal with them some of them will go to the enemy infantry formation and get absolutely stuck and murdered. Micromanaging Cavalry is not fun in 3rd person mode.
thanks fro saying something many hold back on. I can't do much about it, and let me tell you that the way i speak english is not even close to your average italian. Yet, after many years of speaking it it's still very much imperfect. It's not the first time i hear such comments and i have always been afraid that the way i speak is the main issue behind the channel poor performance. The quality of the video itself and the information are some of the best you can get about the game on this subject. But the voice is unable to sell them. I'll likely have to look for someone to record and help in writing the scripts while i edit the video itself in the future
@@LyonExodus you can make a video about this mod and tell them about the new tier because they are op 🔥 in a RUclipsr but different language 😁. I make movie from this game not only gameplay
The war horse the Elite Cataphract use, being the slowest and dealing high charge damage, helps out the unit a lot in terms of landing hits from horseback. Even if the AI sucks at hitting while on the move on horseback, the unit + horse can just soak all the damage while ramming enemies down. Enough to disrupt a line of enemy ranged units from firing their projectiles. (If I recall from the old patches, they used to have a chance to spawn with a Cataphract Mace or maybe it's the name playing tricks in my head.)
the horse analysis is pretty much what i had written down before forgetting to record that part. On the weapon as far as i know they always had the Paramerion since i started playing in 1.5.6. no idea before that.
I love that each time I start using tons of a certain unit, like the elite cataphract, you drop a video detailing how excellent they are! I'm currently going with about 120 khans guard and 120 elite cataphracts (I managed to get to clan tier 5 with over 250 steward, who knew there was a clan tier 6?) and my 240 strong all cavalry army just completely demolishes everything it comes across. The map movement speed is a major bonus, but the lack of grounded range options is sometimes a problem, particularly in sieges against armies 5 times my size, but the cataphract does a lot of work
i love the khans guard until the time for siege. They are great as range units, but not so good when it comes to melee. context* i tried a all Khan's guard only army xD
But the Khan's Guard IS the best unit in the game both melee and ranged 🤣 Which is why I am avoiding using them this time. And I think mounted infantry should get at least 3/4th the speed bonus as cavalry, not half. Also, cavalry is useless in the new patch. They can't land a single hit and only get stuck with their long weapons. This might be a good time to play as Sturgians lol
i can't have fun playing Khan's. way too good of a unit that gets out of any situation. Cavalry does indeed suck, it always did for better or worse. No idea why they won't even, at least triple their horse charge DMG or let riding skill impact that stat. it would make them feel better for sure without fixing the real issue. (a short term fix)
@@LyonExodus i used to love cavalry. Their AI sucked but I used to F1 F6 the infantry and archers and personally lead the cavalry like Alexander the Great. At least they could hit their targets back then, now if I send 60 lancers into looters only 2-3 dies from the charge
Is the Bannerlord Cataphract OVERPOWERED? If you read about them from historical battles, they were used as tanks of ancient period. They even charged elephant units head on. What military unit you know was dumb/brave enough to do this that we know of? Spartans and Alexander the Great but neither are in Bannerlord. Therefore Bannerlord Cataphract is NOT overpowered.
Considering that the Spartans used ditches to defeat epirus elephants and even the Macedonian phalanx suffered heavily under Indian war elephants and may have broken without heavy focus fire from the javelin units and allied tlaxan commanders telling them where to aim to kill the elephants. And 200 elephants more were reinforcing but Alexander defeated the flank with his cav and the elephants surrender. Cataphracts are the only unit who took aggressive action against war elephants and won. Note that war elephants when not focused fired broke through roman legions, phalanxes, elite Greek and Persian cavalry, ottoman janissaries and even served as redoubts for allied horse archers when fighting the Mongols. The fact cataphracts charged them in melee (even if it was from the flank, I mean they aren't stupid) is exceptional historically
Screw the heroic troops, heavy mameluke cavalry is the greatest. Cavalry archer with a shield. The versatility of the unit, siege, village, or field is jnsane
judging purely based on their performance Vs T5 archers they might do well. they are the best cavalry unit at dealing with high rank archers but Fians are Fians. Although other than a curiosity it's not that we are ever going to face 200 Fians (T5 or 6) in vanilla.
like the best Cavalry combo or best Infantry/shock infantry combo? Sure, if it's requested enough i will. Right now i have my hands full with the Banners testings and optimization and the massive Infantry and dismounted Cavalry performance update for 1.0. So it's safe to say the next month is not available.
@@LyonExodus I mean I usually play 2 or 3 types of troops in the formation like: bow and cavalry combo, so I can both break the shield formation and attack from a distance. I don't know if it's good to arrange such a lineup, because I still don't have a lot of experience with formations If you have time, can make a video about comparing bow+cavalry or bow+infantry combination, or compare if using only one unit in formation is best? many thanks
is it more about army tactics then? Eventually i do plan to cover it, especially in some of the hardest scenarios like fighting Horse Archers without Cavalry and such. attacking and defending fortifications, with all their layouts and so on. But for now there is little time to be capable of creating such well crafted and informative videos.
troop wages are quite honestly a non factor as there are a lot of perks that can reduce them by more than 50% (a few combos can even make your troops pay you). And at one point in the game money flows in, even without abusing some of the mechanics. If anything the thing that you need 2 horses to upgrade them from T2 to T6 is way more expensive, but like the wages, there are perks that will allow you to never run out of horses or buy them.
so, evidence is just an opinion then? as of 1.8. it's no longer true for Khan's. Fians are still better tho but not by much. i also explain the reason as to why the Khan's are no longer top in that category in this very video
@@LyonExodus 100 battanian fian champions can easily beat 200 elite cataphract in melee. Only 6 Battanian fian champion dieds after I tested that battle.
and Axeman have only 1. view the video about the Axeman to find out. what's the point? Listen, changing your opinion based on evidence is an healthy thing, failing to so so only hurts oneself. Also, the Banner Knights as in depth testings goes have the best general K/D that means against units from T1 to T5. and yes, they have the Fians beat. does that mean anything? not really, since in a game scenario 200 Banner Knights Vs 200 Fians doesn't happen. so who cares?
@@LyonExodus banner knights and imperial elite cataphracts are just hard to kill because they have a good armor. They have a weak dps. Their spears are weak on horseback and useless on foot. You can beat a super big army with just battanian fian champions or khan guards if you use them well. You cant do the same with imperial elite cataphract or banner knight. Spear need a big buff. Pikeman are just average against cavalry and horseman do not do much with their spear.
Elite Catas might apply to what you just said. the reason they are very good in melee (yes, dismounted you can see the graph here and compare with unit X that would be the Khan's guards) is thanks to their armor. But the Banner knights for sure don't. their armor is nothing stellar as they don't even break into the top 10 of armored units. and their DPS is the sole reason they are very good when dismounted (the best by quite a margin actually) since 66% of their weapons are very fast, mid DMG hitters. one being an axe the other a mace. Listen, i am not saying that the Elite Cataphtracts are a better unit than the Khan's or the Fians, they are honestly not. but you started by saying melee and either you are making the mistake of getting stuck into thinking that performance Vs T5 translates to lower tiers (don't worry, i have to been there) or you quite simply are unwilling to change your opinion based on extensive testing done by someone else that has a small channel. I don't think you will find anyone out there willing to go this in depth with stats and bringing 4K hours of game experience to understand how to properly evaluate units and test them. I have run tests both good and bad for well over an year on this game, i think i know how to get to the relevant information and avoid making the mistakes other channels have done before for the simple reason of gathering views. Like i said, not changing your opinion on evidence is only damaging. Also no, you don't need to use Khan's or Fians well to beat massive armies (you can ask most players about that and they would say the same) they are known as auto win units, they are quite simply OP while the Cataphracts and Banners are just very good units with their strengths and weaknesses. For the last two units you need to know how to use them to beat massive armies, by dismounting some of them generally.
So nice of the player character to hand every single unit in their army to hold the fancy banner. :)
took me a second to get it. But well done.
Is this a banner knight joke? or is it because he did all the units so they all held the banner in the intro?
Help, I am stupid.
Never really considered the dismounting potenital as something important for cav, but after the druzhinnik video i tried dismounting them and mixing them in infantry. The resulting infantry blob just annihilated anything it stepped on - cavalry, infantry, archers. Actually a really solid tactical option if you feel like having cav in the fight is not crucial.
It just works
Sometimes you literally have too, dismounting is necessary if you don’t want to take severe losses in town battles. Horses will get easily stuck in the narrow roads with blobs of infantry. When you’re in late game defending settlements you do town fights really often when enemy Vassals raid your villages.
Love this unit. It looks like a armoured knight and doesn't disappoint.
The word Cataphract basically mean armored horseman
Yes, i am awere i completely forgot to record the Horse armor bit. quite unfortunate since i had a very informative section for the Horse.
DId you know it's the tallest horse in the game?
Are you going to do a complete list or like over view purposes of all armor types/classes? Maybe include it back in on something like that?
probably for a potential tier list that will add visuals and graphs to better explain the reasons behind the rankings.
As for these type of videos i think the current format is fine, oftentimes good but not great armor can't carry a bad sidearm, so the breakdown of the tests gives a better indication.
As always stuff is subject to change, if i see more people requesting this change i'll add it to the format
@@LyonExodus I really like your current "bite size" format. Its easy to watch and covers everything important.
Would be cool to see you do a full units of the game series tho, like the master tomb of LyonExodus unit analysis!
you mean low tiers and all right?
@@LyonExodus yeah, like same thing you do for the high teirs in the current videos, but for all troops in a faction.
You could call them like "Troop Bibles" or the "complete guide to" whatever faction you cover in the video
LOVE the graph at 4:45. More graphs please!
The Virgin Khan's Guard vs the Chad Khuzait Heavy Horse Archer enjoyer.
Even the Heavy Horse Archer could stand to lose their horse armour in favour of more mobility and speed.
But it's TW that had 2 years to balance the game but couldn't.
it feels to me like TW is down to balance every faction but when it comes to the Khuzait they seem to have a sweatspot for them.
Maybe it's because their faction style wasn't good in warband or maybe the guy in charge of the troops is biased.
Why do you think heavy horse archer is better ?
@@LegionaryOfRome Not better.
They're clearly not better than Khan's Guards.
It's the fact the H Archets are simply more down to ground.
@@LyonExodus Funnily enough the Cataphracts are also one of the 2 troops that spear brace while dismounted.
The other is the Pikeman,but we don't talk about Pikemans
Yeah, we don't talk about the Pikeman.
I wanted to gather footage for the 20m Vlandian recap and damn, they managed to lose in the same scenario as the Catas in this video.
Like what's they bloody purpose other than medicine farming?
been pretty disappointed with how ai cavalry sucks at couching lances, so this unit works well in that it doesn't even have that option and just stabs. Haven't used them in ages as Khan's guard just seemed better but I'm probably going to do an empire play through soon. looking forward to the palatine guard video as they're quite a bit better with the extra quiver now.
Catas are possibly the only cavarly that feels like working well. Their armor and the fact that they won't even use the spear but the 1H sword when told to shield wall makes them quite a killing machine.
Obviously not on par with the Khan's that can simply kill without getting touched but if you are looking for that Templar charge feeling than this guys should do.
@@LyonExodus what is catas?
CATAphractS
@@LyonExodus oh
@@notimeforspace2477 i prefer shield wall. not that much for the spear or sword thing but because they deal with arrows better and prioritize defense when in 1v1 or worse situations.
You surely have seen cavalry getting stuck in a small infantry formation or against another horseman.
Shield wall helps in that scenario, as long as you use the charge command.
If you plan to move them from one place to the next then line or something else is better.
So, in 1.8 melee cavalry able to dominate T1 and T2 infantry units (LOL) but gets completley decimated by higher ranks if not supported by friendly infantry. Good job TW, made infantry great again but forgot that horsemen cost almost 3 to 4 times more denars to upgrade. That`s why everyone crying about Khan`s to be OP. Of course, because they are able to use their weapons properly
Man, I love this rubric.
It's one of those things where needing to have the best units is more the issue, rather than which it is. By the time we've played enough to have used them all in different ways and know which is the best, we shouldn't really need to use them - they're a crutch for the new player and handy for the AI to survive. Instead we see people outnumbering the enemy 3 to 1 and still using them. I'm much more impressed and interested in the playthroughs where someone is taking over the world with average units, rather than the elite. I mean, obviously it can be done with the best.. Hunting larger more powerful parties rather than bullying Looters and recruits with a Cataphract/Khan's Guard horde. Kinda like when we were kids, if ya were good at a sport or something, ya were good - you didn't need the most expensive football boots or best tennis racquet to be good. It's the 'Great! You can do it with the best kit and all the advantages but can you do it without all that!?' - and I dunno if it's more rewarding or it's just about doing the thing.. Personally think the Cataphracts are probably the best "F1+F3/F6" cav, others seemingly need a little (to a lot) more attention to get the best out of them but I'm more interested in what the worst/cheapest unit is that I can counter the Cataphracts, Fians or Khan's Guard with.
Little note on Stats - I'd love to see what the differences between the units with the whole taken into account. Not just the numbers a unit may have in One Handed - but what the "Combat Effectiveness" is; taking into account encumbrance from armour, the weapon handling and swing speed, whether there are any relevant perks/captaincy bonuses that'd have an effect. We focus a lot on the protection from the armour but not how much it slows down the swing of a sword or reloading of a bow/crossbow. Plenty about how many HP a shield has but fewer pay attention to what it weighs - a unit may have 20 more Athletics than the rest and be 'S tier' as a result but at the same time be carrying enough extra weight for it to be irrelevant - similarly a unit can have a higher One Handed skill but poor handling/slow swinging weapon, which is the reason they've been given the higher skill to compensate, yet we quote the misleading stats (I don't mean in this video..).
Thank a lot for your lengthy comment.
Seeing people like you interested in all of that was the main reason i played the game with all kinds of units and never really abused the OP or good ones.
You probably would have loved watching me stream this game back in the day.
As of now i might, one day, return with more testing style of content, and a bit of streaming too.
Thanks for the comment again, it did spark a bit of a nostalgic feeling in my Bannerlord enjoyer heart
Enjoy your time with the game Sir.
@@LyonExodus lol yeh sorry, not of the Twitter generation (and usually on an old enough video that I don't expect a response lol) but every now and then I'm prepared to be the black sheep. Appreciate the reply. 3897.5 vanilla hours since 1.5.7 for me, though barely 500 since launch - so it's nice to find a CC that cares about guiding players and not simply giving the answers already known. I'm sure I can find the old vods if they're up on Twitch. Just started a Poacher-only Robin Hood playthrough on the back of the video, stirred the old pot lol
I use these mixed with Khan's Guard. A potent mix
As a Khans Guard Enjoyer i hate going against Cataphraks😅
direct headshot with a cross bow 11 damage
i prefer banner knights anyway, charges are soo epic
to each their own. they both look awesome and they'll look even better as soon as they add banners.
I love that unit.
What is Unit X shown in the graphs at 4:45?
KG
Definetily and probably THE best looking troop. It's the most Elite, most prestigious looking unit in the game. Whem you see them, it's like you're looking at an armored legendary elite soldier.
You claim every video that cavalry doesn't have it easy, but never explain your point and I'm confused. In my point of view cavalry is the strongest type of unit. An army of 50 cataphracts or banner knights will win against any even number of infantry. They have it pretty easy.
this unit is actually pain and brings sadness, and mostrly is the main reason I hate the empire
name a single weak imperial unit
oh wait
you cant
maybe not weak but the Bucs other than shooting are very fragile. and the Xbowman lost a lot with the 1.8. accuracy reduction for crossbows and the extra quiver for the Palatine.
@@LyonExodus But still X-man is best in meele archer other than Fian.
From my last row of testings they are the 2nd best in general KD but just 4th best Vs Low tiers.
It shows how much that little nerf to blunt DMG impacted a unit that was by far the best after the Fian in melee
@@LyonExodus the fact is non of them matters for imperial
Best cav
Still strong inf
Strong archers if not xbow
Dont care about horse archers
they are all solid units that's for sure. i would say they lack a powerful combo like other factions. but none of their troops are weak for sure, even the mid low tiers are some of the best around.
Just curious, since the troop balance in the vanilla game is purely dogshit, have you ever thought about making a troop rebalance mod based on your tests?
yes. after i am done with the videos and the channel has gathered more visibility i plan to make a post to invite some modders to create excately that, if possible i also would like to change the AI lords perks and skills to make the game more challenging.
oWo
The cavalry AI sucks too much. You have to constantly make it move or risk loosing it. If I get attacked by enemy cavalry and I order my cavalry to charge, so I can deal with them some of them will go to the enemy infantry formation and get absolutely stuck and murdered. Micromanaging Cavalry is not fun in 3rd person mode.
They would be better if they could couch
Not gonna lie. I can understand and not understand what you're saying at the same time. The accent is really heavy 😂
thanks fro saying something many hold back on.
I can't do much about it, and let me tell you that the way i speak english is not even close to your average italian.
Yet, after many years of speaking it it's still very much imperfect.
It's not the first time i hear such comments and i have always been afraid that the way i speak is the main issue behind the channel poor performance.
The quality of the video itself and the information are some of the best you can get about the game on this subject. But the voice is unable to sell them.
I'll likely have to look for someone to record and help in writing the scripts while i edit the video itself in the future
Hello bro. There's an update for troops tier 7 and 8 check it and make a review ❤️🔥
analysis on modded troops are not currently planned. but if enough people suggest it then i could become an option
@@LyonExodus you can make a video about this mod and tell them about the new tier because they are op 🔥 in a RUclipsr but different language 😁.
I make movie from this game not only gameplay
The war horse the Elite Cataphract use, being the slowest and dealing high charge damage, helps out the unit a lot in terms of landing hits from horseback. Even if the AI sucks at hitting while on the move on horseback, the unit + horse can just soak all the damage while ramming enemies down. Enough to disrupt a line of enemy ranged units from firing their projectiles. (If I recall from the old patches, they used to have a chance to spawn with a Cataphract Mace or maybe it's the name playing tricks in my head.)
the horse analysis is pretty much what i had written down before forgetting to record that part. On the weapon as far as i know they always had the Paramerion since i started playing in 1.5.6. no idea before that.
@@LyonExodus lol did you start playing on the cracked version
I love that each time I start using tons of a certain unit, like the elite cataphract, you drop a video detailing how excellent they are!
I'm currently going with about 120 khans guard and 120 elite cataphracts (I managed to get to clan tier 5 with over 250 steward, who knew there was a clan tier 6?) and my 240 strong all cavalry army just completely demolishes everything it comes across. The map movement speed is a major bonus, but the lack of grounded range options is sometimes a problem, particularly in sieges against armies 5 times my size, but the cataphract does a lot of work
i love the khans guard until the time for siege. They are great as range units, but not so good when it comes to melee. context* i tried a all Khan's guard only army xD
But the Khan's Guard IS the best unit in the game both melee and ranged 🤣
Which is why I am avoiding using them this time. And I think mounted infantry should get at least 3/4th the speed bonus as cavalry, not half. Also, cavalry is useless in the new patch. They can't land a single hit and only get stuck with their long weapons. This might be a good time to play as Sturgians lol
i can't have fun playing Khan's. way too good of a unit that gets out of any situation.
Cavalry does indeed suck, it always did for better or worse. No idea why they won't even, at least triple their horse charge DMG or let riding skill impact that stat.
it would make them feel better for sure without fixing the real issue. (a short term fix)
@@LyonExodus i used to love cavalry. Their AI sucked but I used to F1 F6 the infantry and archers and personally lead the cavalry like Alexander the Great. At least they could hit their targets back then, now if I send 60 lancers into looters only 2-3 dies from the charge
the khans guard fans one
cataphracti are a completely unbalanced unit, braindead charge, heavy armor should exhaust them more than this
0:48 that why I hate bannerlord , after that charge 3 enemy died , I mean wtf ?
Is the Bannerlord Cataphract OVERPOWERED? If you read about them from historical battles, they were used as tanks of ancient period. They even charged elephant units head on. What military unit you know was dumb/brave enough to do this that we know of? Spartans and Alexander the Great but neither are in Bannerlord. Therefore Bannerlord Cataphract is NOT overpowered.
Considering that the Spartans used ditches to defeat epirus elephants and even the Macedonian phalanx suffered heavily under Indian war elephants and may have broken without heavy focus fire from the javelin units and allied tlaxan commanders telling them where to aim to kill the elephants.
And 200 elephants more were reinforcing but Alexander defeated the flank with his cav and the elephants surrender.
Cataphracts are the only unit who took aggressive action against war elephants and won.
Note that war elephants when not focused fired broke through roman legions, phalanxes, elite Greek and Persian cavalry, ottoman janissaries and even served as redoubts for allied horse archers when fighting the Mongols.
The fact cataphracts charged them in melee (even if it was from the flank, I mean they aren't stupid) is exceptional historically
I once had 26 elite cataphracts I never lost with them
There was a time when Catas have maces...
There was a time when horsemen was able to use spears and not just cut air with it...
Your content is keeping me interested in the game… can’t wait for steam workshop mods:)
should arrive soon they said. probably sometime after the game comes out of early access in October/November
Screw the heroic troops, heavy mameluke cavalry is the greatest. Cavalry archer with a shield. The versatility of the unit, siege, village, or field is jnsane
Im currently playingn an empire playthrough. I havent played since the early acces so its good to know that my shiney bois are packing a mean punch :D
nothing as overpowered as the damn max tier horse archers
I love your videos and your accent. Good job my friend.
Your english is really good.
How do cataphracts fare against an army of Fian champions? They should have advantage, being cavalry, yet I haven't tested it
judging purely based on their performance Vs T5 archers they might do well. they are the best cavalry unit at dealing with high rank archers but Fians are Fians. Although other than a curiosity it's not that we are ever going to face 200 Fians (T5 or 6) in vanilla.
Could you create video for "combine types of soldiers in the formation"?
like the best Cavalry combo or best Infantry/shock infantry combo?
Sure, if it's requested enough i will. Right now i have my hands full with the Banners testings and optimization and the massive Infantry and dismounted Cavalry performance update for 1.0.
So it's safe to say the next month is not available.
@@LyonExodus I mean I usually play 2 or 3 types of troops in the formation like: bow and cavalry combo, so I can both break the shield formation and attack from a distance. I don't know if it's good to arrange such a lineup, because I still don't have a lot of experience with formations
If you have time, can make a video about comparing bow+cavalry or bow+infantry combination, or compare if using only one unit in formation is best?
many thanks
is it more about army tactics then?
Eventually i do plan to cover it, especially in some of the hardest scenarios like fighting Horse Archers without Cavalry and such.
attacking and defending fortifications, with all their layouts and so on.
But for now there is little time to be capable of creating such well crafted and informative videos.
A con that was missing is the high price for leveling up the unit as well as their high salary.
troop wages are quite honestly a non factor as there are a lot of perks that can reduce them by more than 50% (a few combos can even make your troops pay you). And at one point in the game money flows in, even without abusing some of the mechanics.
If anything the thing that you need 2 horses to upgrade them from T2 to T6 is way more expensive, but like the wages, there are perks that will allow you to never run out of horses or buy them.
simply OP
Khnas guard is far better
Elite cataphract are weak in melee. Khan guard(hold fire) and Battanian fiend champion(hold fire) are way stronger in melee.
so, evidence is just an opinion then? as of 1.8. it's no longer true for Khan's. Fians are still better tho but not by much.
i also explain the reason as to why the Khan's are no longer top in that category in this very video
@@LyonExodus 100 battanian fian champions can easily beat 200 elite cataphract in melee. Only 6 Battanian fian champion dieds after I tested that battle.
and Axeman have only 1. view the video about the Axeman to find out. what's the point?
Listen, changing your opinion based on evidence is an healthy thing, failing to so so only hurts oneself.
Also, the Banner Knights as in depth testings goes have the best general K/D that means against units from T1 to T5. and yes, they have the Fians beat. does that mean anything?
not really, since in a game scenario 200 Banner Knights Vs 200 Fians doesn't happen. so who cares?
@@LyonExodus banner knights and imperial elite cataphracts are just hard to kill because they have a good armor. They have a weak dps. Their spears are weak on horseback and useless on foot. You can beat a super big army with just battanian fian champions or khan guards if you use them well. You cant do the same with imperial elite cataphract or banner knight. Spear need a big buff. Pikeman are just average against cavalry and horseman do not do much with their spear.
Elite Catas might apply to what you just said. the reason they are very good in melee (yes, dismounted you can see the graph here and compare with unit X that would be the Khan's guards) is thanks to their armor.
But the Banner knights for sure don't. their armor is nothing stellar as they don't even break into the top 10 of armored units. and their DPS is the sole reason they are very good when dismounted (the best by quite a margin actually) since 66% of their weapons are very fast, mid DMG hitters. one being an axe the other a mace.
Listen, i am not saying that the Elite Cataphtracts are a better unit than the Khan's or the Fians, they are honestly not. but you started by saying melee and either you are making the mistake of getting stuck into thinking that performance Vs T5 translates to lower tiers (don't worry, i have to been there) or you quite simply are unwilling to change your opinion based on extensive testing done by someone else that has a small channel.
I don't think you will find anyone out there willing to go this in depth with stats and bringing 4K hours of game experience to understand how to properly evaluate units and test them.
I have run tests both good and bad for well over an year on this game, i think i know how to get to the relevant information and avoid making the mistakes other channels have done before for the simple reason of gathering views.
Like i said, not changing your opinion on evidence is only damaging.
Also no, you don't need to use Khan's or Fians well to beat massive armies (you can ask most players about that and they would say the same) they are known as auto win units, they are quite simply OP while the Cataphracts and Banners are just very good units with their strengths and weaknesses. For the last two units you need to know how to use them to beat massive armies, by dismounting some of them generally.