How TERRIBLY DESIGNED is the Khan's Guard? Bannerlord Horse Archer Troop Units Guide
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- This is a 1.8. Bannerlord in Depth Analysis of the Horse Archer troop known as Khan's Guard.
This video is part of a Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Playlist where we analyze each unit not only based on their equipment but also on statistics taken after intensive testings.
The Data will be trimmed down and showcased both throughout the video and at the end to allow the viewer to know as much as possible about the unit in question.
A score will also be provided at the end based on Lyon’s opinion, this score shouldn’t be taken as hard evidence, as different playstyles may impact the way viewers evaluate units.
In this here video we are going to talk about the Khuzait Khan's Guard.
A wildly popular unit due to it's extreme versatility and sheer power, but is it's overpowered nature a problem of game design, or a needed solution for the Khuzaits?
Units Guide Playlist: • How BAD is The Wildlin...
And remember, criticism and constructive feedback are always appreciated.
Khan's Guard is strong
Khan's Guard aims true
You can press F1
And what's after F2
Sieges, it does well
This unit is swell
Khans have whistles
But they also have bells
Taleworlds, I ask
Have you been using a flask?
When balancing units
Isn't such a difficult task
poetry :D
You make the Khan's Guard do a shield wall?
I shed a tear
W poetry
Devs are Turks of course they make these OP
They are the worst because they are the best lol. Really wish they sped up the thrusting animations of every weapon. That would make spears somewhat useful and make thrusting attacks with swords an actual option
that sums it up.
Browsing on the forums the other day we have confirmation that the "long weapons" issue is gettign fixed.
the cavalry thrusting is "still in process"
So expect a patch soon(TM)
*Soon™️
They did say they plan to have a 1.8. "coldfix" before the 1.9. version comes out, so this might be a real Soon this time.
@@LyonExodus its getting close to release
They have to fix the damn AI and buff melee and shock cavalry armor.
also sucks that spears cant thrust if someones too close wouldnt you just push through them irl
They happen to be equipped the same way as a player character trying to maximize their K/D ratio.
Yesssss
Yeah in my opinion polearms shouldn’t be able to cut through 6 people like wtf were they thinking.
@@jordanwilson4182 that's literally a mod you use. Vanilla no weapon other than two handed axes can cleave.
@@abseits_ger7274 Can the 2handed CLEAVER cleave?
@@DIEGhostfish nope. Not in vanilla. Only with mods.
Khan's Guard would only be a little overtuned if the AI didn't cripple the effectiveness of so many other weapon types, most notably thrusting weapons. But since the Khan's gear is good AND they actually use it near its potential they are unbeatable.
It's like they took the Vaegir Master archer. The Vaegir Knight, the Rhodock seargeant and just made it 1 guy on an armored warhorse horse.
Good Lord. I remember how friggin tanky those Sergeants are.
@@nordicgaming5429 they were still no match for swadian knights and the butterlords
Yeah armored warhorse horse are the best mounts in bannerlord lord
@greynium7794 My God. I said Warhorse Horse.
@@jauneork278 my God. I said bannerlord lord
when sending khans vs imperial cataphracts.
always order the khans to "hold your fire" and focus on melee. they will annihilate the cataphracts.
otherwise, they keep switching between bow and glaive, then it gets them killed.
thats so dumb, i believe you. im just saying their glaives are op
@@vaspia19 yes. their glaives are very OP.
i tested khan guard's glaive in melee combat for both mounted and unmounted.
they dominated against everyone in pure melee combat.
as for ranged combat, fian champions are still the best, but khan's guards are within the top 3 (right after palatine)
@@nowherefool5869 I thought Khans were second only to fians, isnt their bow skill a lot higher than palatine?
@@vaspia19 i tested palatine vs khans a few times. not entirely sure how palatine beats khans, but they do.
might need a few more tests on that.
@@nowherefool5869 interesting, keep me posted ;p
I think one balance issue is how all troops of the same tier cost the same, so if you are paying the exact same wages, then there's no reason not to grab the best troop. What I think would be cool is to have differing costs, so you might have a unit like the khan's guard that is super OP but costs twice as much as other troops of the same tier, while you might have a trash unit that is super cheap, so you can bring a lot more troops to the table (or at least cut down on troop wage costs). I think having factions with varying levels of quantity vs quality would be an interesting balancing feature.
yea the fact cavalry and infantry has the same upkeep is dumb, cavalry should have higher upkeep, than infantry, horse archers should have higher upkeep than melee cav, and khan guard should have one of the highest upkeeps
@@eshinnightrunner6290 Yes the one time cost of horses pales in cost compared to the regular upkeep, so that barely balances the cost. Imo cav should have at least a 25% cost increase at all tiers. Maybe give certain factions a bonus reduction?
@@LarsSeprestthe Khuzeit doesnt need further horse boosts lol
@6:11 You should have said: "Let's list the pros and khans."
missed opportunity
Once i played with only khans, I conquered half of calradia and started the new game because like u said it was like cheating. Normaly having 200 u can beat to 500 units with low casualites but with them u can up to 800 and literally lose (with good medicine) like 15
yeah, i feel like that's the main issue.
This unit should feel like an hybrid Cav/horse archer type
but instead is better than both in a best case scenario.
Your solution seems good
@@LyonExodus i think they could change glaive for bastard sabre this have decent speed dmg and is much more balanced than glaive, but with 1.18 polearm AI this could be much better on foot than on horse
changing the weapon will definitely hinder their melee abilities but i also don't really like to take away that unique look from them.
Nerfing the glaive or reducing the Polearm skill of the unit i think would be a bit better.
the unit will still have that look and feel but it won't be as powerful
Imagine if gengis khan had khans guard in their army 🤣🤣
200 vs 500 ? If u havr 200 khans guard and good captain ability and combined with vandal ability... Ur khan guard can melt even the strongest shield wall Sturgian or fight 3 times of your force (with micro managing)
Its the reason Mongol so broken OP in medieval
Someone put a Fain champion on a horse and gave them a stick with a sword on the end of it…
Was dealing with them last night in sieges. Their counter on foot is cheap swordsman or throwing units like sea raiders. Took shield and jareeds and killed them easily. On horse when it is later in the battle and there is more skirmishing and space to swing they do excellently.
Wish taleworlds made more such unique units.
Agree that they make all other Khuzait units feel worthless even though IMO Khuzait has no bad units. I think the OPness of Fian Champions is compensated by the unit being a foot troop so it's harder to use up all the arrows before being forced into melee and shield wall formation do a good job at blocking shots before getting into melee range. However, the Khan's Guards can just reposition and fire around shield wall till they run of arrows before charging in.
Also Khan's Guards + Fian Champions for double the OPness. Have Fians as the frontline troop to rain arrows on the shield wall while Khan's Guards circle to the back to rain arrows from the unprotected rear and watch the AI confused on which formation to target. Whenever I face Khuzaits with lots of Khan's + Heavy Horse Archers in an open field battle, the best chance to survive against these guys would be to exploit the red border wall.
Strong Khuzait army on an open map is death unless you have a good army yourself.
I haven't done the border strat in a long time.
I instead use cavalry and archers to get something working and it generally does well unless you are facing 300 T5/6 guys.
Also Swally0ne, a buddy of mine. has a different strategy that also works well against Horse archers.
The Fians are indeed OP units as well and can replace the shock trooper of Battania but, like you said.
It's much harder for them to flank the enemy so they have to rely on something else to stop and absorb charges in order to hit the enemies in the back.
The Khans can simply do a WW2 Germany move and go around the lines.
Stationary archers tend to do a good job against any horse archer, as the AI has them constantly moving and thus not shooting as accurately and fast.
Also against charging cavalry of any kind I find that what works is having all of your troops kinda compacted together in a tight square (not square formation, just a square in line formation), as that will make the cavalry trip on each other before they reach you and then they will get bogged down between your troops.
depending on the unit in question loose can work even better in decimating charges
@@LyonExodus well it's not ww2 German move more Prussian manoeuvre warfare which the "blitzkrieg" evolved from the blitzkrieg wasn't even called blitzkrieg by the Germans it's the name the allied gave it
@@delanovanraalte3646 I was talking about the Maginot Line...
Turkic nomadic horse archers and Mongol horse archers were just like that irl too, that's how they became so successful as warriors.
it's a game we talking about tho, and not an historic one. Balance should have priority.
No they weren't. Find me even a single example of Mongol horse archers dismounting and annihilating heavy infantry in melee.
Horse archers were not all an army of super heavy glaive swinging badasses, they were all quite varied. Most of the time, they were fairly light, with only some wearing good armour.
@@calebcampbell9280 Indeed, in fact the second Mongol invasion f Hungary failed because the hungarian king Bela IV prepared well; among other things he issued heavy armour to his troops, as he noticed the heavily armoured units fared much better during the first invasion. This worked, the second mongol invasion was repelled handily, the mongol arrows fared poorly against the heavy armour of his new knightly force. So if you want historical accuracy, the answer to horse archers is heavy armoured knights. In bannerlord it works quite well, heavy cataphracts annihilate horse archers. I never even noticed Khan's guard doing anything useful against my heavy cataphracts. I was using the realistic battle mod though where the heavier armour of catphracts gains a big advantage.
Heavy mounted hungarian knights annihilated golden horde horse archers and ended their counqer of europe. In bannerlord they are compared strenght to heavy can, but irl they was bullied by heavy can, even light cav was able to succesfully beat horse archer in battles. Infantry and archers struggles to fight them so they hide in castles on behind town walls, while khan s army was starving because they can t loot any food from city
Oh man, i Think the horse is a bit to tiny for such a heavly Armored Unit. But i ready love this unit. Also tue Khuzait heavy Horse Archer
wouldn't the tiny horse just make them harder to hit? ending up in enemy archers missing more?
I mean, when they are in large quantities you should give a medal to anyone who managed to miss them.
@@LyonExodus Historically, smaller and stockier horses could carry an armored mongol (probably not as heavily armored as the Khuzait tho). They are also renowned for their stamina due to their smaller mass than European horses
yeah, probably wouldn't be able to carry that much armor but you forget that the Khuzait have been blessed with the "khanatinium" a special metal that weights less than a pund for KM square.
It's all "balanced" and makes "perfect sense"
Thrusting polearms need to have a passive damage potential(ability to do damage without bracing/player input) similar to actual spears and the ability to pull the weapon in close for close quarters stabbing, similar to different sword grips in Mordhau. There need to be different stab/parry types as well(riposte etc.) if they want spears to be as effective as irl.
And if they want to balance the Khan's within the current game they should replace the glaive with a long 1h sabre or a shorter 2h sabre instead.
@@ribos2762 just a chance to knock someone off their horse or knock them down if they eat a full speed spear to the shield
The game already has alternate weapon modes like couch, brace, and switch between thrown and melee for thrown weapons (x key), they could just add a close quarter mode for spears where you wield them closer to the point.
I mean clearly they don't want spears to be as viable as irl. Ever since the first mount and blade, spears on foot were a tool dedicated entirely to poke a charging cavalryman exactly once, to make them stop, and then switching to your 1h weapon to actually kill them.
It's even dumber in Bannerlord, because there's all this infantry walking around with these stupid-looking poles attached to their backs that they never use.
Great video!
Every time I see these guys in large numbers in the enemy's army and at the same time my character will participate in battle only as a sergeant, without the ability to lead an army into battle on his own, then I already know that I will lose this fight.
I don't like the balance of specialized troops in the game. Many of them are needed to fulfill a specific goal, but at the same time their effectiveness is not so high compared to uneversal units. For example, the LEGENDARY PIKEMAN. It seems to me that he should destroy the enemy cavalry, but at the same time be vulnerable to all other types of troops, but in fact he cannot even compare with this and there is a Vlandian sergeant next to him who can use a spear against cavalry, has a shield to tank arrows and, in principle, can stand up for himself against infantry. Then why do we need a pikeman? Not to mention the fact that such troops are completely useless in the hands of AI, since it does not know how to separate them and use them correctly.
There are definately more badly designed troops in Bannerlord.
The PIkeman and the Veteran Falxman are some of them.
But the Khan are the only "Omni-unit" in the game and the only one that is badly designed not because of how bad it is but how good it is.
The Fians get very close too, but at least they are not as mobile and have to deal with the current Battanian rooster. but lowering their arrow count wouldn't be a bad idea for balance.
@@LyonExodus Fians also lose in melee to imperial veteran crossbowmen. They aren't THAT good. Ironically marching up shieldwalled crossbowmen to near melee, firing one volley and charging will utterly wipe Fians.
Unlike essentially any other unit, the fian champion and khan’s guard are must haves for armies
Yes... Th problem the are too far... Converted Forest bandit maybe they are breeding so fast near myzea and Amprelea forest...
If u play around khuzait land...
Since the Khuzait heavy lancer has not got a video I thought I would share a test I did on them here. Really basic nowhere near as well done as what Lyon Exodus could do. They won when put up against other tier 5 cav so they seem like a good mounted melee option for Khuzait. They also have shields unlike the Khan's guard which means they are able to do the one thing they can't which is block incoming projectiles albeit they are small but it's a lot better than nothing. Note they lost against the tier 6 Calvary which makes sense since their tier 5. Would recommend the heavy lancer. Test was charging both sides into each other 100 units each.
Haha love this video so funny, im playing as "ghengis Jan " (since im interested in ghengis khan after reading Marco polo), im currently on my second journey of collecting nobles sons after a bit of a mistake fighting a caravan, and this is great to hear that they are such powerful units 🤣🤣
You mentioned 145 length being a "sweetspot" with the AI. Could you elaborate? Would you ever do a video talking about the best weapons and best weapon lengths, etc. with the 1.8 AI?
Don't think it will be necessary, or at least, not for 1.8.
Because TW has already said they plan to patch the AI either before or with the release of 1.9.
So this issue isn't here to stay.
But for mounted units anything in the range of roughly 110+ to 160 makes them perform better than longer or shorter weapons, as far as swingable weapons are concerned.
As these weapons tend to generally be fast, have decently wide arcs and deliver enough DMG to either 1 shot or 2 shot while mounted.
Longer weapons will fail to hit cleanly and deliver less DMG and shorter weapons would just end up missing.
Speed is also important, both weapon, skill and horse.
Slower horse (Cataphract) tend to help the units more since their speed allows the unit to have a larger striking window. a fast horse like an Aserai will end up making that window smaller and leads to the unit missing more.
While the fastest the swing of the weapon the better, since late swings are more likely to land.
So, for AI, the slower the horse, the better the melee. And the faster the weapon the better.
One thing i want to do is an "best gear for companions" for every type of unit and a few playstyles in the game at different skill levels.
@@LyonExodus ruclips.net/video/xFS5Xqrl4gg/видео.html
the AI does best when not moving. cav at a stand still does better than charging, but starting the fight with the enemy's formation disrupted and some of them knocked down is a bonus.
Perhaps they could Nerf them when they’re on foot. I don’t know how hard that would be to code. That would be I think a good solution. You need something overwhelming about them because otherwise they really aren’t worth it it’s so hard to get an expensive. Likewise, with all the Battamian units, maybe they start buffing their raw abilities to enhance foot speed and survivavbility. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad that troops have disabilities.
never take a Khuzait off his horse!!
Good idea in a sense but not whats going to fix them. Their strongest tool is their horse which they will most likely be on the whole time. Nerfing their unmounted combat will do little to nothing in field battles. Honestly I just think they should just replace their melee weapon with something a little more tame. And not a weapon you would find on a shock troop.
Just lower athletics is a bit of a decent foot nerf
Dude I fucking love the khan's guard for they're look man, they could be the best or the worst unit but I would still love them, they look like what the Khuzait faction shouldve been in Warband lol
You might even say a...GREAT WALL...nah they'll just go around it and then proceed to besiege Peking.
It was Germany secret weapon in 1940.
Everyone was calling for the Panzers but we all know it was Khan's Guards that took the French by surprise
I've only just got into the game on PS5 and a newbie. I'll probably end up agreeing with you after I've no lifed the game (I'm seriously addicted..) but after I finish your vid I'm going to frantically search how to get these guys ASAP!
Have a look at the Steppe boys (Khuzait) they are the light green ones.
Then click on every castle name (not towns) and have a look at their bounded villages.
Noble troops can only spawn in those specific villages, with the right culture.
Then, later. With a perk in leadership called Veteran Respect. You will even be able to convert Steppe bandits into those guys.
So cleaning hideouts with mace wielding troops (Aserai low tiers or Legionary) then dueling with the leader will give you roughly 20+ bandits.
Hope this helps with the addiction.
@@LyonExodus Thanks mate for awesome explanation. I'll be doing this tomorrow! Cheers
Khan's guard are the only cavalry who are good at countering my "run up alongside them with a 2handed cleaver and sideswipe them" strat. Those glaives hit HARD.
My main issue with khans guards is how they’re horse archers with the same armor as knights, horse archers need visibility (open faced helm) and the ability to turn 180 in the saddle to shoot. So heavy as fuck armor should not be put on fucking horse archers period
Maybe they could make javelins dismount to have it counter mounted archer's?
Turkic developers making Turkic troops the most OP? Checks out.
Historical reality says this, not because they are Turks. Also, Khuzait is not only Turkish. Turk and Mongolian. This is what the producer of the game says. Didn't the Turkic-Mongolian tradition conquer the world in this way? The majority of Genghis Khan's army consisted of nomadic Turks.
@@familycpr Oh, I know. I was just making a joke.
This likely would be fixable not in nerfing the unit, but changing up the faction mechanics. Which if you look at the lord stats they've tried, but still the Kuziat are too stable internally. Externally an even higher conquered loyalty ding than 3, making it very/near impossible for them or a player of the faction to hold lands without rebellion, would hem them in. Troup morale could also play into it, having the unit break much quicker when taking any losses to turn a 5% casualty rate into a rout, which could nerf their offensive ability in sieges. That said, there is a reason pastoralists conquered all of eurasia several times over.
I kind of think they're still OP in this version, didn't know that until I watched this video but it explaines why I managed to beat a party of 120 with a squad of 30 khan guards... (only lost 4) Interesting
I hate needing to fight these ones. I can kill and beat hundreds of units in the battlefield. But these ones both kill me and my units quicker than a tidalwave. With the worst part being that the kuzait spam them to high heaven and low hell.
Once i play campaign... mesui (one of Monchug general) deployed 200 khans guard in 1 battle...
My battle limit is 1000 so i fight around 200 khans guard at the start of battle. At that time we are in the equal force around my 1200 ish vs her 1300 ish...
Its one of the bloodiest war i have ever played
Can you guess what I usually have in my armies? :P
well that's an interesting question to figure out.
it might be Khans since that's what we talk about.
but it might also be the exact opposite because, maybe, you find them too good as well.
I am going with Khan's but i am not completely sure
@@LyonExodus I usually play khuzait and become a vassal of rhagy baby while taking khuzait lands for the empire. Yes I roll with cataphracts and khans guards in my cav only armies.
@@t1t0s89 very nice.
In my opinion, it seems that TaleWorld loves the Khuzaits and hates/dislikes the Aserai. It seems like an army of fians and Khans guard could defeat any army combination of any faction.
The producers of the game are Turkish. That's why the producer of the game says in his interview that Khuzaits come from the Turkic-Mongolian tradition. The Central Asian nomadic tradition conquered the world with horse archers. So it's no coincidence that these unions are the best.
...I admit from the title I had thought you were going to say that these troops were actually terrible, not terribly powerful.
Nerfing the glaive would do a lot to rebalance... the fact they out fight palace guards on foot is ridiculous and makes palace guards useless.
With an epic name like ‘khan’s guard’, I’d expect them to be the strongest Khuzait unit fieldable. I don’t actually see any issue with them, as they’re an elite top tier unit. If you get to the point where you have 300 of them, you’d expect to be a fricken demolisher. Their con is their difficulty to replace due to the exclusivity and resources required.
What I actually believe is overpowered is the auto battle mechanics and how a bunch of lowlife infantry can overrun castles with few losses in a matter of seconds 😂
I didn’t understand how broken Khans Guard are. Doing a Khuzahit campaign for the fun and I managed to get 40, with waaaay to many other tiers of Khuzahit Horse Archers. Just that alone let me easily defeat Sturgian Armies that outnumbered me.
Yeah, they are something else.
And what makes them strong is that you can fall asleep on your desk and they would still find a way to win.
@@LyonExodus I’ve gotten fond of finding a battle I’m extremely outnumbered for, picking the best terrain possible and just letting the enemy walk up too me and let the “machine gun” open up and call a charge. Battles take a few minutes before the enemy routes. Khuzahit has ruined any hopes of me doing any other kind of play style though.
Its pain in the ass to recruit these things unless ur playing kuzait.
Can't kuzait settlements when at wars.
Can only recruit like 30 noble sons before they declare war on u
Recruiting them as prisoners is the only viable way.
And steppe bandits.. how tf are we supposed to catch em
"Khan's Guard are overpowered."
Genghis Khan who conquered 1/3 of the world: "Am I a joke to you?"
Khans guard is ALWAYS top killer, in a 1200 vs 200 siege he was mvp with 400+ kills and I only had 18 of them total
Khan's Guards are one of my favorite units in the game. I wouldn't call them OP because without them, the Khanate really can't bring any other good units to the battlefield.
none of the khuzait troops are considered "bad"
Lancer is super strong Cav, Marksman is very good archer and Darkhan is one of the best infantry in the game.
So because other units are bad this one is justified being op? That's a prime example of HORRIBLE design.
The Khuzait are honestly the faction with the best troops out of all of them, the worst unit they have is the Heavy Lancer, but that is still the best standard T5 cavalry in the game.
And saying that you standard cav is your worse unit when you have a unit like the Khan in your rooster is not such a bad thing.
@@Bzhydack Khuzait Lancer are good unit, for me Darkhan is decent infantry unit, but for the khuzait marksman is terrible unit archer except Khans Guard is very good unit in my opinion
I feel quite hungry
maybe make all noble troops like the officers in eagle rising. you can only hae a limited number of them, and it should depends on perks and clan level. like the eagle rising, you should not beable to get officers of different culture. another thing taleworlds could have done is give 33% of their kit shields, 33% lances, and 33% maces. I'm not really a fan of nerfing units but I think this will make it so only 33% can use a swingable polearm (ai use swingable polarms as thrust polarms if they have a shield and if it was 1h/2h). next most viable option will probably make the veterinian perk far down the line, and have less noble-recruitable villages similar to sturgia.
not of a fun of splitting templates when units have unique weapons like this one.
I think like someone else mentioned, all that is needed is less polearm skill, and taking away 1 quiver in order to make them great units but not OP.
I think TW is way to fixated on "the unit must have this exact number of weapon skill because it's noble". Make it less, buff something like the bow skill, so even with less arrows they are still very dangerous and it's already a better solution than their current state and doesn't change their look much.
These guys shouldn't have a swingable polearm, period. They are horse archers, give them the best horse archers bow back but take the polearm away and give them a one handed sword.
I like the way this guy says Lamellar
Just add a shield to Khans Guard making Glaive 1H
Just the opposite khans guards the unit make game balanced as they are shock troops. And khuzait lacks shock troops. İf it werent for them. Khuzait would be worse copy of empire or aserai. İ think fians and crossbows kinda op.
to be fair without him. They aint gonna get any castles.
Have you seen mid game marksman spam? Khuzaits can take castles by shooting everyone, and they have great armour.
Darkhans are very respectable melee troops lol, you can take them and have no issues with sieges. And dismounted arches are still archers, which the Khuzaits will have plenty of.
@@TheNEOverse agreed
meanwhile army of 400 Imperial Sergeant Crossbowman in V-formation: HOLD MY BEER
1.7. crossbows, sure but wasn't without decent casaulties. Mainly the Khuzait don't bring too many Khans so the Crossbow had it easy, but i modded my game to increase the upgrading speed of the Lords and they were tough to bring down when in decent numbers.
1.8. crossbows, definetely much worse.
The reason why Khan's Guard are OP in everything is because they are simply Player Characters that got isekai'd by Truck-kun and are now part of the game as individual units. 🤣
The Turkic-Mongolian tradition created this monster and thus they took over the world. We know that the game draws on historical realities, so it is no coincidence that this union is the best. The helmets of the Khan's Guard were inspired by the Kipchaks and they did this job very well.
Fioms can fare pretty well against khans guard.
That said they are also pretty OP.
they are, just not as much
Khans guard is the strongest melee troop in the entire game.
I was right. Khan’s Guard OP!
They were op in real life therefore it's ok, balance is for weakilings, I always play with a full party of khans to maximize army effectiveness, I could easily win against your infantry army with minimal casualties, I have over 300 confirmed kills in a single siege, I've been involved in numerous raids on empire, and sturgia and even aserai
I can be anywhere, anytime, and my party moves fast no matter what, and by the way, I had a little visit with your village, thanks for the resourses
sucks to suck, keep loosing mate, see ya
They were not the best because they could employ whole armies of these glaive swinging sniper beasts though. An actual Steppe army would only have few of these sorts of dudes.
The bulk would be just a guy in light robes, a bow and a short stack horse.
Glad that my first actual play through, I chose to do a cav archer mongol inspired play through only to find out khans guard are OP.
Im not great at the game yet but skirmishing enemy front line with two groups of horse archers is so crazy. Couldn’t imagine watching my entire army ripped to shreds because they outnumber my archers 5 to 1 and infantry are too slow to catch them.
The producers of the game are Turkish. Armağan Yavuz (the producer of the game) says that Khuzait comes from the Turkish-Mongolian tradition. But you insistently claim that he is Mongolian. Do you have a problem with Turks? Why does it bother you that such powerful troops come from the Turks? The majority of Genghis Khan's army consisted of nomadic Turks. If this were not the case, Mongolia's population would not be 3 million today. Millions of Turks live in Central Asia and Anatolia. Please review your thoughts. Even the helmet of the Khan's Guard was inspired by the Kipchak Turks. If you Google Kipchak Helmet, you will see it.
Swing Pole dmg too OP Taleworlds plz nerf!! (Seriously please nerf the damn thing)
I definitely believe the noble lines need a revision the up in skills should be enough of an upgrade but they get best overall armor when they should get best I'm class. Plus sturgia should replace the raider with the druzhnik champion and have a noble heavy infantry like a huscarl that wields throwing axes and a 2 handed axe with an axe and shield.
I don't know why any horse archer should have a double quiver set. Like I understand they are an archer class but they already have a huge advantage being mounted because they can just snipe for gruesome durations of battle time and one up foot archers like Fians who should have the better accuracy advantage. Mounted archers should have less than 30 arrows for balance in my opinion. When they run out they can double as cavalry units a lot quicker than constsntly sniping broken ai.
The only two things that balance the Khan's Guards are the Bow and the Horse Armor.
Jesus..TW's so stupid
don't touch their Khuzait. it's illegal.
@@LyonExodus Yea...
The only things that truly matter to a horse archer,horse and bow..are the ones balanced.
They should reduce their bow skill to 180 and glaive to 180
It's a fun and interesting unit, bow/polearm/cav.
i mean only an idiot would use the drakhans
You forgot one con- their shoulder armour doesn't match the colour of the body armour at all so they look stupid and therefore unplayable.
They should lose the brass lamellar chainmail armour and instead wear that eastern lamellar thing. Then give them all swords instead of extra arrows, nerf their skills to be more in line with Vanguard Faris, and then maybe now you have something balanced.
Accurate to history though. Mongols did shred through a lot of nations unless they were walled, in a jungle or had an army specifically formed to counter them. I like fighting them they are a good challenge for experienced players to fight, and a safe option for those new to the series. So I personally don't have a problem with them being really powerful for those reasons.
The producers of the game are Turkish. Armağan Yavuz (the producer of the game) says that Khuzait comes from the Turkish-Mongolian tradition. But you insistently claim that he is Mongolian. Do you have a problem with Turks? Why does it bother you that such powerful troops come from the Turks? The majority of Genghis Khan's army consisted of nomadic Turks. If this were not the case, Mongolia's population would not be 3 million today. Millions of Turks live in Central Asia and Anatolia. Please review your thoughts. Even the helmet of the Khan's Guard was inspired by the Kipchak Turks. If you Google Kipchak Helmet, you will see it.
Well they are the Khans Guard, they should be an OP unit. Its not like on campaign they are easy to mass up, so I usually just treat them as a seperate elite bodyguard unit for my character
They are really easy to amass, you can easily get around 50-60 of the unit's line through one trip of khuzait territory.
Sure it's not the full on khan's guard, but they level up fast with how easy they wreck bandits, and since they are a mounted unit, you can reliably catch up to most bandits
The unit is pretty silly how busted it is
@@Austin555661 wait to amass them do you just convert step bandits?
@@tbones8733 You can just find yourself a village that produces a shitload of them and do their quests. Then you just have this source of khan's guard.
since patch 1.5.10 noble troops are way too easy to recruit from villages. all you need is a decent relation, some perk that give you some open slots even with no relation and you can just get 50+ each day from a few villages.
The Bandits one works best for hideouts but right now, recruiting from villages is definitely a bit overtuned for the player.
i know they changed it to allow the AI to have more noble troops but it's kinda ridiculous now
@@LyonExodus Well people complained about not getting enough of them... as if that wasn't the whole point.
So now we gotta deal with too many since everyone wants that super elite army.
their mongols( sort of) comon
Too OP? Hmmm that's why Huns and Golden Horde capture a half world 🤔
Shhhhhhhhh, dont say it too loud....
Worst thing that can happen is that they get buffed even more. TW is like that with the Khuzait.
Tbf tho it is pretty accurate that horse archers are over powered
Is it also accurate to be the best foot unit in the game as well?
The problem with the Khan's is not being excellent Horse Archers or even mounted units. But it's that they are the best foot fighters as well. And they got even better in 1.9. and 1.0.
@@LyonExodus they can just buff the infantry units then. But most noble lines are hybrid troops so khan guards are good at horse archery and shock troops
I don't disagree on giving more armor to infantry units.
But the next video i am making plus the cavalry update i already made. Kinda highlights the design problem of this troop that can do anything it wants and be in the top 3 every time.
It's kinda pointless to even use any other khuzait unit since they can reliably cover all roles but they have no shields.
At lest a unit like the Fian, as OP as it might be, can't be mounted.
They are fine as they are.Other units just suck and that makes them op
i think it's a matter of both.
some other units suck but the Khans are definitely way overtuned
How can you make anything else as strong when the basically have the ultimate loadout of pure murder? Upping skills isn't enough at all. Giving everyone glaives, bows, heavy armour and horses would be the only way to match them really.
Yeah they are broken but you also should consider that they cost DOUBLE the wages of cataphracts, have 5 units in their tree and require a warhorse which nets you about 800-2000 denars down the hole over their lifetime.
I think also if taleworlds was to specialise them to only perform well in mounted archery, they would be even more broken.
All units are payed based on their level. The Khans and Cataphracts (or any T6 unit) have the same level and are payed the same amount in terms of wages.
On the horses. the Cataphract from T2 to T3 requires 1 normal horse, then from T4 to T5 requires 1 warhorse.
The Khan's only need 1 warhorse from T4 to T5.
The cost is less. and any warhorse works for upgrades.
Then, if you get the medicine perk called veterinary you don't even need to buy horses. you ,quite literally, will gather so many just by battling other armies.
In my campaigns i often have to slaughter the horses to avoid some massive herding penalties.
You still think they are overall more expensive? Because the math states otherwise.
Nah mate! They need a buff. I lose like 3 units per siege. XD
The only way to defeat an army of Khans guard and armies of 1000 aserai is use the red borders
The trashiest unit out there. Just because the game developer is Turk and wants to have an association to the Mongol culture and that's the sole reason why these guys are way way overpowered. I guess, it was the developers way of trying to make up for how trashy they were in Warband.
The producer of the game insistently says that it comes from Turkish-Mongolian culture, but you insist on saying Mongolian. The majority of Genghis Khan's army consisted of nomadic Turks, and yes, the best military units in world history are the Turks and Mongols. Do you have any objection?
I can confirm Khan's are still very op lol. They easily take out wall archers. Started playing Khuzait and have maybe 5-7 in my party of 40. Mainly used for bandit hideouts annoying that when facing the boss they use their bows automatically instead of their glaives.
You can just order your troops to hold their fire and they will switch to their melee weapons. Hope this helps.
@@ThatGuy-ez7eggreat tip. Thanks
When your primary task is to shoot bows but you wear a full face mask with terrible visibility...
When you use a swingable polearm from horseback that with every second swing clips right through your own horses neck...
Both a bad design choice.
Realistic Battle Mod alleviates that to some extent because, for one it generally reduces the speed of consecutive shots with a bow, and the glaive does cut damage, which is very much reduced against higher tier armour.
Just re-read your comment Mike.
And i was weirded out by the glaive doing cut DMG in Realistic battle mod cause it also does in the vanilla game.
i think the reason as to why it's less effective in the mod is due to the way the DMG calculations differ.
basically armor is better in RBM than vanilla.
But i have never tried it out, and likely won't touch Bannerlord in general any time soon.
@@LyonExodus yeah glaives do cut damage both in RBM as wellbas in vanilla but the way armor works in RBM, pierce damage is much more worthwhile against highly armored enemies. So a lance makes much more sense in RBM than a glaive. And historically lances or long spears were the predominant types of weapons on horseback across all cultures.
I used khans guard during 1.8 beta and they destroyed everything but as my own tradition. Now with the Full release. I am once again conquering my game with my hoard of khans guards. Genghis khan and Timur the lame would me proud of me
Well. they are even better now with the Swing AI being fixed.
But beware when dismounting them, the new mechanic of "formation fighting" makes you lose more units than before.
The keshig are the khans guard if it was lore accurate
ruclips.net/video/YxPFSb23orc/видео.html
horse archers mounted beat regular archers due to how the game works. top tier HA should then beat top tier foot archers in an even match up. the AI also has trouble with cavalry melee, so expect some weirdness there as well. the khan's guard is OP, much like the Fian Champion, however how the AI builds armies means that they have to for the AI to match more regular forces. the foot troops of the Khuzaits are some of the worst for open field combat, and they aren't good at sieges and such either. this means that their HA and Cav will end being outnumbered in all fights by a high degree by the enemy forces. the nobles then are even less in an army, so their OPness is mitigated further. basically the Khan's Guard might be okay if they fix the other issues, and are really only a problem when the player looks to exploit their OPness. if you micro manage you can get better results from other troops for everything other than HA. cav in shield wall is actually really good (better than infantry), making the Nord nobles better than one would think, and roughly on par with Empire nobles. one should keep in mind that the Cav Ai is broken, and that the only non-cav nobles are the FC and the KG, and they both are top tier above others.
I wonder how a mask covering all face can shoot arrows acurately from a horse, wher they inspired horse archers like this??
If you do research on the Kipchak Helmet, you will see that it was inspired by a historical reality.
Let's see, it is realistic that the mounted archers are OP, there is a reason why the Mongols conquered so much as they were nomads with nothing more than horses, and even more so in times of light infantry on large plains, the elite of these units it is logical that they are the best in the game, excellent unmatchable archers on fast horses with a great spear and charging ability, for me the nerf should be that they should be much more expensive to get, that you need noble horses instead of warhorses to upgrade to that point, or both, with higher maintenance cost, even so it is difficult to maintain realism in a game when reality was not balanced, the horse archers were always OP
When you said it turns the bow into a machine gun I laughed because its so true LOL
Seems whoever designed the Khan's Guard was a BIG fan of Guan Yu.
Hey Hey. they can totally block arrows.
Just.. only once or twice, is all
I don't see anything wrong with this *hhrrrrmmmmmsss in aproval
Historically accurate
when playing khuzait i force myself to use only 20/25% khans guard. Honestly no more horsies but those, but i force myself not to use a khans only army. I make a bulk of 40% darkhans (great infantry... the only down side is the downgrade in size of the shield when compared with the tier before it), 35/40 marksman and the 20/25% khans. My problem with this build is that i started using it with aserai (mameluke, master archers and vet infantry) and had a blast using it because, aside of the archers, the other units are outclassed by the khuzait counterparts (and honestly i dont know if the aserai archers are still better).
im honestly curious with the darkan video
When ever I see an enemy faction with a lot of noble sons or khestigs I deal with them immediately. Cus Khan guards are very annoying to deal with.
The devs are turkish so they make their faction op thats why
Another pro
You become a speed demon on the campaign map.
they just carrying ma battles yo
Can you get the khan guards helmet with the mask for your character
Yes. after a few years it should spawn pretty reliably in one of the Khuzait culture towns
@@LyonExodus thanks for replying :)
They are also a pain in the rear to deal with in large number when you are trying to fight the Khuzaits
yes, 300 khan guard is fun. its even better accompanied with elite cataphracts xD
Desire for throat singing intensifies.
I may have to use it.
My situation is bad, the Aseri, Northern Empire, and Sturgia all have around 10,000 man power.
The South Empire has 4,000, and I seem to be the only one winning battles for it.
The remnants of the Western Empire and city state of the Khuzaits both continue to be a thorn in my side as well.
Constantly in a deficit as my city's prosperity is shit and can't pay for the garrison I have.
Also I'm having to juggle conspiracy quests in there too.
Op or not, I need to conquer cities and win field battles faster the speed if light to survive it feels like.
Anyone got advice?
Pray, you dared to do the campain, and launched the conspiracy too soon, it is now constant suffering lol
Might be too late but do nothing but cataphract/khans armies and save/load every battle to minimize casualties. In addition, get the Scouting perk Keen Sight and Riding 225 Mounted Patrols so that you have a 100% chance to prevent prisoner escapes.
With this, start absolutely obliterating armies in the field and capturing all the vassals. In time, with a big party, you can have 150+ lords in your party as prisoners and even the terrible sieging ai will begin to start taking fiefs again. Recruit as many clans as you can and you should be fine. Note that it will be a grind though
Genghis Kahn in battle:” F4 + F1 + F3”
I have only khan guards in my army no cavalry.
I send them melee and when they overcome I make them shut... Versatile.
the "Omni-unit"
The producers of the game are Turkish. Armağan Yavuz (the producer of the game) says that Khuzait comes from the Turkish-Mongolian tradition. But you insistently claim that he is Mongolian. Do you have a problem with Turks? Why does it bother you that such powerful troops come from the Turks? The majority of Genghis Khan's army consisted of nomadic Turks. If this were not the case, Mongolia's population would not be 3 million today. Millions of Turks live in Central Asia and Anatolia. Please review your thoughts. Even the helmet of the Khan's Guard was inspired by the Kipchak Turks. If you Google Kipchak Helmet, you will see it.
mate i am sorry but you have understood very little about this video. There is absolutely no problem of ethnicity with the unit. it's the fact that watching the video again might show you how that unit can singlehandedly replace, almost fully, exception made for the Darkhans, every unit of the Khuzait rooster.
I am not taking historical accuracy, or any racist take on the unit, just a pure design take about the faction, you can go watch the Fian video and you would find a similar take to the one in that video, altough the Fian makes much more sense for the Battanians since they have otherwise no archer unit.
If i were to follow your logic than me finding the Fian OP must mean that i have something against White archers? Sorry if you got insulted but you completely missed the point of the videos my friend.
I have taken my time to reply just because i found your comment to show that you got really offended and i wanted to clear things up.
Also you can see what the video aims at by reading the description........ i do think i even praise the aesthetic design of the unit at some point so i really don't get how you got offended
@@LyonExodus Thank you for your explanation. Yes, we are sad and angry. Unfortunately, we have a prejudice on such issues. There are many people who think that Turks are Arabs, imply that they ride camels and wear turbans, and describe them as hairy and uncivilized. Since Khuzait Khan's Guard is the most elite unit of the game, people deliberately show ulterior motives when they insist on not associating him with the Turks. We came to Anatolia from Central Asia and people constantly annoy us to make a statement because we do not ride camels. I think it's probably because the Ottoman Empire dealt a lot with Europeans in history. Turks and Mongols are two different nations of the same culture, so there are people who cannot tolerate the fact that Turks have one of the best troops even in a game. I apologize for showing prejudice, I am sensitive about this issue.
they not terribly designed. it's even historical for such unit to be extra good.
So you think that a unit that is the following: 1) Best horse archer, 2) 2nd best foot archer 3) 2nd best shock infantry 4) 2nd best cavalry.
You think this is not terrible game balancing?
The again, "historically", it is well that mongols cavalry was great on open fields, yet not so good once they got to fight at close range so no, i am afraid your historically accurate is quite inaccurate.
Then again i do question some of your comprehension skills, i guess English isn't your first language cause you should be able to pick up that the "reason" of me saying it's terribly design is not related to them being great or OP at what they are supposed to do (shooting arrows) but the fact that they make their same faction unit redundant (Heavy lancer) their own archer unit redundant (marksman) and are top 3 in any category of class.
That up here was why (summarized for you). I invite you to have a second look at the video to understand the points that i wrote more in depth.
@@LyonExodus yes it's not if u didn't understand before. 1) it's fun 2)it's historical, soldiers trained on archer, horsemanship, and martial arts like Great Seljuks, Mongols, Huns, Timurids and Ottomans managed to for large empires because their troops combined those tree arts 3)historically speaking, castles didn't stop Mongols. 4)your balance is overrated, the game is fun. if you don't like it, go and make the balanced game....
@@nasserm20 i am afraid you still can't comprehend what was said in the video.
Any high rank veteran soldier in the last 2000 years was highly skilled in close quarters combat. so that reasoning falls flat as soon as you compare the khan's melee performance with some other T6 units in the game.
One thing is clear do, you can't seem to have an objective point about the unit. You can't seem to see the opposite side, such as mine and the majority of the players and you think that rebalancing a clearly too good unit would make the ENTIRE game worse when in reality it's hardly the case.
anyway have a great day, none of what you said is what i stated if you actually watched and made an effort to understand the video.
then again most players, like me, agree with my take on the unit as you can see from the most up-voted comments and the discussions that sparked with it.
You like the unit, you like how it feels. there's nothing wrong with it. Just evaluate it in an objective manner and keep your preference away from it.
There are units i love in the game too, and if they feel too good i'd still like them to be tuned down. if anything that makes it funnier to use other units rather than sticking to what is the best possible ones.
Imagine this: for some (a lot) of player variety is a lot better than maximixing performance. incredible right? yeah same...
Imagine if a Pizzeria was handing off only Margheritas because they are the most profitable pizza. yeah, what a great experience it must be for the customers who want some pepperoni or fries or...
@@LyonExodus if a unit works, why ask for it to be nerfed rather than asking for the others to be improved.
And when it comes to pizza. Imagine if restaurant makes great pizza but bad pasta. They should make their pizza bad too or they should improve their pasta ?????
@@nasserm20 mate, I don't want to be rude by may i ask you for how long have you played the game? Cause as much as you can improve the other units they will never reach the level of the khan's, like not even close. It's due to a mix of great equipment, skills and game mechanics (archery + swingable polearms + one of the best armor sets in the game, as far as units are concerned)
As many other players have commented the reason the Khan's are that good is because they are equipped in the most AI friendly way + they bring that 260 polearm skill that makes their weapon fast and deadly by increasing it's DMG and Speed.
If you tried to give them a 1H weapon for example they wound't be as good in melee.
Then again that would 100% kill the cool factor the unit has. So it's tricky to balance it without destroying their look.
You aren't wrong in your suggestion (other players have suggested the same in the comments and i gave them my opinion about it), just that it's will very likely not going to be enough.
And you are right, a lot of units needs to be better than what they currently are.
This was the main reason i started making those analysis videos in the first place, in hope that TW would buff some of the very bad units.
There are just 2 units in my opinion which are gamebraking (as in: they can win 99% of battles without any tactics) and those are the Fians and Khan's.
It would be a lot more work to make everyone else better in a balanced way than it would be to tune down slightly a clearly overtuned unit.
don't you think?
Anyway, the Khan's have been the best unit in the game since release. it won't change any time soon no matter how much evidence there might be. TW is fixed on them being the go to unit in the game.
My video isn't going to change anything on that front, plus it's from 1 year ago and i am sure nothing as changed when it comes to the Khan's
Not related but when it comes to pizza the thing that makes or brakes them is generally the cheese. (and i live in italy, so technically pizza should be good here) Altough as in many things, it depends on the preference of the customer.