Crazy Hybrids Are The New Normal - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 152
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- It's not just Bugatti - we're seeing a shift away from pedestrian turbocharged engines and toward hybrids with an amazing engine as the centerpiece.
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There's a bunch of amazing stuff coming - but sadly nothing for enthusiasts who don't have unlimited funds.
Lamborghini has two new powertrains: a hybrid V-12 for the Revuelto and a 10,000-rpm V-8 for the Huracan replacement. Aston is developing a new V-12. The GMA T.50 and T.30 and Aston Valkyrie use a Cosworth V-12; the Bugatti Tourbillon uses a 9500-rpm Cosworth V-16. The Porsche 992.2 GTS uses an amazing hybrid turbocharged 3.6-liter flat-six.
What's happening in the car market? First, there's a discussion of who buys new cars? How old are car buyers? And how old is the average car on the road?
And why Hybrids all of a sudden?
What's happening is that manufacturers are realizing that a high-revving, vocal combustion engine is what customers want. And a plug-in hybrid system allows this to happen while passing emissions legislation.
All this and more in a very, very curmudgeonly episode of the Carmudgeon Show.
Hey Jason & Showrunner - do you think you could start posting links to sources in the notes? Even just the news article or something, especially if it's something someone has prepared and is a main topic. Thx
this would go perfectly in the carmugeon subreddit
@@papakwasiasiedu5280what's the r/ ?
@@papakwasiasiedu5280 the whaaaa? (runs to Reddit)
The average new car transaction is $47,000?
_My_ average car transaction is about $4700.
Its not that I don't _want_ a new car...
... it's that I want a lot of different cars.
$ 47K = 8 cars and a modest budget.
4700 is more than I paid for my truck that I've had for 10 years and put 150k miles on
@@imgooley that isn't a driver's car but yeah, cars are extremely expensive these days (last few years, to be more specific)
EFF dept and depreciation. Gimme something fun and weird.
@@eugenux paid 3500 for my firebird, facilitated a few Corvette buys, and am primarily a hot rod and low rider guy. The rules apply across the board.
And my truck is a stick with double wishbone front suspension to be fair
Jake deserves a raise for the inserts that he does in all these episodes. They're hilarious.
38:42, Hyphens delivery of "Toyota can" cracked me up.
23:27 Reminds me of my boss. He bought a new S-Class and is in his 70ies. When he showed me the car he failed to be able to open the sun roof.
Icons options I'd love to hear on...
ND3 - Celebrate the Miata Is Always The Answer
992.2 GTS - Electric turbo and the hybrid-ized future
Or touch on something that is gone now. Like the Challenger/Charger or the GTR...Icons can be a swan song to something that is leaving, a goodbye to an icon.
The Miata has been curing automotive diseases for 3 decades now 👍
I think the 992.2 makes for a great Engineering Explained video, not really an Icons. No manual and no analog gauges (whole dash is just a display) could be a Revelations episode exactly like a Golf Mk8, highlighting the many things wrong with it, and coming to the conclusion of "well it exists, that's about it"
+1 for the Miata though, Anthony will probably be pushing for one as well
Bit late to reply, but I would love an ICONS on the Hellcat House. Sam Smith did an absolutely amazing job summing that family of cars and trucks up in a Hagerty article a few years back, though, so the niche might already be filled. And like, Henry Catchpole spoke well of the Challenger Redeye's dynamic capabilities, but would Cammisa? Not like any of the models have any racing history either.
The GT-R would deserve an ICONS episode too if Jason hadn't already made one for MotorTrend. That brought the three most significant models - the C10 "Hakosuka" of late 60's and early 70's Group 2 JTC fame, the R32 (which barely needs an introduction thanks to what it did in the Group A era), and the R35 GT-R (which was there as a point of contrast but was otherwise an extra).
Here's a car that probably deserves a proper sendoff (and god knows its maker won't give it one)......THE CAMARO! The Ford Mustang's lifelong sparring partner went down and nobody's even making a sound about it. This, despite the Camaro arguably proving the better road racer. Its most basic variants were cheap, it always came with a stick, and the ZL1 LE boxed with supercars around road courses in the style of the old ACR Vipers. The Camaro deserves veneration on the level of the greats in automotive history, and if it doesn't? I, as a Mustang Enjoyer, will riot.
That Sarah McLaughlin soundclip with Jason killing his plants was absolutely perfect!
See, I kinda thought Icons was about cars we know about, revelations was the backstory about cars we don't. It doesn't matter to me in the end, as long as it's about a car with a great script, I'm watching it.
Crazy hybrids are the new normal....
If you've been watching Carmudgeon... It's been norm for the last few years..
Jason = crazy - Hyphen = OCD ... Hybrid presentation
ADHD + OCD = The Carmudgeon Show
and end the show with the Revel-icons hybrid idea
They're older than I think they are?!? Fuck you with your facts! 😂
One problem with the GR86 and BRZ is that those of us who are interested in them can't find them! Dealers aren't stocking them.
I bought my GR86 a year ago at the age of 54. Great car, rather have it than an older Porsche. It’s my second car and a luxury. My 24 year old son couldn’t have swung it.
I couldn’t even consider one and went with a Mustang instead because I couldn’t find one within 150 miles of me to test drive
There's not alot of people who are
It's a committee-made sports car without the styling or aftermarket of the previous generation that everyone is familiar with
Additionaly, at least here in Germany, insurance is like M5 and more than Boxster... Got my GT86 in 2014 when it was one year old and buying it ~10.000€ below new MSRP is a no brainer compared to buying it new.
Why not order one?
This was clearly filmed before the debut of the new m5😂
100%. They even referenced it as something worth looking forward to without bringing up 5,400 lbs.
@@clinttubeI think these guys are a lot less terminally-online than the average viewer. Chances are they haven't even heard about the disgrace that is the new M5. They also say RS6 is continuing without acknowledging that it's being renamed RS7 (probably they are unaware). Jason spends his time thinking about old cars until a manufacturer drops a new car in his driveway for a test drive. My suspicion is that he has driven so many cars that he doesn't even care to think about or speculate on a new car until he's behind the wheel.
Well at least he was correct about it getting its doors blown of by a base EV
lol time for “BMW is having a bad day v2.0”
@@FeLiX13sLaVe lol maybe so. Although I cannot imagine given the E39 M5 shirts Jason wears that he missed the announcement I mean I usually don't know about specs/reveals for months at least, but RUclips got me the memo. I do have a V10 6-speed M6 though, so the algo probably knew it'd get a rise out of me. Or that it'd make me feel less self-conscious about weight given all I could find that fit the bill was the convertible.
And as far as DTS is aware BMW could be making forklifts nowadays... I don't fault him for that though, not his bailiwick. Willful ignorance is bliss I suppose haha.
The Ferrari called the"🇨🇦 " was hilarious (happy 🇨🇦 day). Jim Carry insert for the 997GT3 Ref solid. Enjoyed the episode. Surprise the 190 EVO redone was not mentioned, would be interested
My fiancée and I bought a used 2021 Launch Edition Polestar 2 as our daily driver and we love it. The performance pack adds Ohlins dampers and BIG brembos to already great chassis dynamics, and makes it a real M3 competitor IMO. We've put 36,000 miles on it in 6 months, no issues whatsoever. Absolutely superb.
Its insane that insane hybrids are the norm but there STILL isn't an affordable hybrid performance car ANYWHERE in the global car industry.
A couple of points that could add some clarity:
When talking about the average age of a car buyer, does that include lessees? The reason for the question is that if so, it's likely skewing the average age up. It's very plausible that younger drivers buy or lease new cars, but speaking anecdotally- the older drivers I know tend to have substantially more turnover on their cars. So the last car I bought was in 2020, and it was brand new. But in that time I know someone in their late 70s who has gone through multiple leases.
Also on the insurance thing- a friend in the Bay Area got a quote for a Mach E for over $400 per month with Allstate. When he put in my zipcode in the Phoenix metro, the quote was under $100 per month for the same coverage. It seems the insane insurance pricing is Bay Area specific. Not sure if that's more of a judgement on the quality of drivers in the area or just general risk of accidents.
I'm watching this while waiting for my BRZ to be delivered ;)
i think car ideals on media underrates this kinda driving fun: normally people are thinking of driving fun as a sense of accomplishment from escaping danger. but much more relevant and less risky/costly is fun of driving efficiently. driving efficiently is making power at optimal RPM and fuel amount especially at down hillish roads (more speed with less torque (pushing power) used, like speeding before uphills. brake and steering minimally and steadily. neutral gear in transmission for coasting which also turns off using hybrid system regenerative braking os it doesnt eat up your coasting speed , and ideally hybrid energy used only on 0 to 5 or 10 miler per hour for max battery longevity per efficiency, minimal tire emissions and tire life loss. mid engine, limited slip differential, also helps.r
I leased a RWD base Polestar 2 recently. The $299 lease deal assumes a two year lease, 10K miles per year, $1,000 down payment, and costco discount. I did a 3 year/12K mile per year lease, and I'm only at $389/month including taxes. I think the Polestar 2 is a great bang for the buck that is fun to drive. I don't get involved in politics. It's sad how divisive vehicles are these days. I support everyone's choice to get a car that THEY like.
26 years old. This episode is a pretty tight example of one of the reasons I stopped frothing at the mouth in excitement over cars in general and stared doubling down on motorcycles. I can’t afford a new car, I can’t afford the car I have now (funny enough a used 2019 rdx) and am actively trying to get rid of it inspite of my spouse. I can’t afford a old e30 because 5k for something I immediately need to put 3k into and it needs to be a daily because I don’t have a garage or the space to shuffle 2nd+ car away yet a motorcycle or two can do those while also capable of being fixed in a day/weekend on anything other than fully replacing a frame
Great point. You may be ahead of the crowd on this; looking at motorcycle sales they've fallen off a cliff since 2007. I don't get the impression there are many young people riding bikes. When I got my first bike in high school and 2nd in college there were a number of my friends that ended up getting them and it seemed much more common than now.
I don't ride much at all anymore but still have my 2004 ZZR600 which was plenty quick and comfortable for me. However I know for sure if I dived into bikes that #1 spouse would be terrified and #2 I'd graduate to serious motorcycles quickly that might be bad for my health. My grandmother and granddad both had bikes into their 70's so maybe I'm just a wimp. Nonetheless, nothing beats a motorcycle ride. Safe riding!
I got into bikes 10+ years ago for the same reason - I couldn't afford and didn't have the space for a second "fun" car.
Want an affordable, manual, naturally aspirated, high-revving machine? Motorcycle.
"I'm sporty, did you know that"😂😅😂😅
I like to go play off-road. I got excited when Ford started releasing their other Raptor variants. Until I saw the price. But I’ve still watched the Bronco Raptor episode at least 5 times. Keep the shows going with whatever you can get your hands on because the stories, the performance, and the insight are worth our time
Icons with a focus on the C7 corvette. They're at an age now where they're affordable, available, yet still very capable and serviceable. The Z06 was usually the focal point of past media while ignoring the hidden gem... Grand Sport. There's still a very healthy community embracing the 7th generation car. Stingray, Z51, Grand Sport, Z06, ZR1 are all phenomenal cars. Still to this day most people don't truly understand the differences in each model or relative performance compared to other sports cars.
My Corvette is best Corvette because affordable performance
Even when it’s a bummer, it’s still fun. Love it.
"What 29 or 30 year old do you know could afford a $47k car?"
When I was 25 I graduated college and got a job making $52k in IT. I went out and celebrated by buying a new Mustang GT which had a sticker of $31,000. That was 2006. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $48,000.
This might seem like I am going against the original claims...stick with me.
I recently hired a guy who graduated college into the job I was hired into in 2006. I hired him at $62k. In the last 18 years, the starting pay increased by 19%.
In contrast, a Mustang GT spec'ed out the same as I bought in 2006 is now $52,000. In the last 18 years, the cost to buy the Mustang increased by 64%.
Had the position also been adjusted for inflation, I would have hired him at $81k.
Wait, are you saying you bought a new car that was roughly 60% of your ANNUAL PROJECTED income at that point first thing after landing a job? Man, if that's the case you're so oblivious to your privilege it's actually hilarious.
You also have to keep in mind, that it's not just the Mustang that got much more expensive, it's also housing, food, energy,... Wages just don't keep up with the increase in cost of living, unless you're already way above a certain paygrade.
Yeah, you got a good job in IT. So?
@@georgebull-mclean3333 I think his point was, that he had a well paying job and could afford a car in 2006, but the wages for the very same job today just haven't kept up with the price increase of cars (or just literally anything). Wages are too damn low, compared to everything getting more expensive.
@@TheDr1Acula Yes, exactly that. I am not tooting my horn, I am saying the wages of today have not kept up in a way that would allow a 20-something with a fresh college degree and little-to-no dependencies to go out and buy something like a new Mustang GT. To say nothing of someone that is married, trying to buy a house, start a family, and has to deal with literally EVERYTHING else costing WAY more than it did 20 years ago.
Me any my friends are university students that are also car enthusiasts. Of the ones that actually have sports cars their cars are at least 20 years old, except for the one guy that has 3 modern/expensive cars. That’s why a lot of us just have motorcycles.
Cool to hear young people are getting back into bikes. I rode everywhere in high school/college ~15 years ago and still have my bike, but rarely ride it since my riding buddies mostly sold their bikes about 10 years ago. Unlike cars it's easier to have something that you can push hard/learn on without being ridiculously costly - save for some potential medical bills. Assuming/hoping you guys have taken riding courses/whatnot but it makes you so much better as a driver too.
Don't give up on cars though; I just got my newest and most expensive car by a factor of 2x 6 months ago and it's a 2009. Haven't lost money on a single car I've owned (aside from my 04 GTO I lost $1000 on when it was totaled but I put >125k miles on) by just having unusual ~$20k cars at the bottom of their depreciation curve for years. Took me >10 years to feel financially ready to step up the $ I have in vehicles by 4x, but instead of buying a $100k car I have 3 manual transmission naturally aspirated 2005-2009 V8's/V10s from $20-$40k. Morale of the story is if you guys are patient you'll come out ahead - don't give into the temptation when your boy finances a $100k AMG that depreciates 20% a year.
Safe riding!
@9:02 Jason perfectly described me driving to work in my mk7.5 on Bilstein Coils. The Ace Ventura 2 reference was *chef's kiss*
The problem with GR86 and BRZ is that for less than the price of a new one I can get a lightly used 2015 BMW M235i. Seems like a lot more bang for my buck, especially when you factor in depreciation.
I’m in my mid 20’s with a college degree and I don’t see myself buying a new car anytime soon. There’s nothing in my budget I would want.
I think that to but then I factor in maintenance/repair costs on the used bmw. At least with the gr/brz you get a new car woth a warranty tough decision
Lightly used manual 22-23 4 V Blackwings are dipping below the $60k mark.
But there are barely double digit quantities for sale across the US.
Hmmmm, in about a year, that might be doable 👀😄
This is the definition of as advertised lol, you won’t get that car for that price
@@CoreyGolphenee
Got mine last fall for ~$62k. But it’s a base model, no sunroof even.
@@CoreyGolphenee eh, I searched after seeing that comment - there's literally a '22 within 30 miles of me with 5k miles at $60k.
@@cloudyview no I get that, walk into the dealership and try to pay 60, it’s not gonna happen, after “fees” that car is gonna be 10 over sticker, that’s just what they do for loss leaders these days, which any of the black wings are gonna be.
An episode in the driver's seat of a Sunfire doing the PET? Yesssss
DEF is diesel exhaust fluid. Love the show
Huh. I thought it was an '80s hard rock band.
This is the podcast we never asked for but all deserve. +sub
25:00
It's not out yet, but the C8 ZR1 will be insane. Though I think the Zora would better fit the Icons theme.
Icon: Land Cruiser (I might be biased)
I listened to this podcast on Apple but wanted to come here to join the conversation. The points about the cost of new cars, especially in the enthusiast space was very interesting to me. I got an allocation for a 2022 G80 M3 in June 0f 2021 at MSRP (when that was much harder). Even with amazing credit and a APR of less that 3% at the time, I had payments of nearly $1300 for 60 months when financing through BMW. I took the car and kept it for over 2 years before selling and acquiring my current E36. Attempting to buy a new GT86/BRZ, Miata, M240 or whatever with current prices and rates is one helluva ask for someone shouldering college debt and/or a job that's not paying a hefty salary while trying to manage other bills.
Sweet cars; 100% agree. As the cost of living goes up faster than compensation, all but the top 5% or so of earners have to decide between being financially prudent and building wealth or buying/owning/leasing a new car. It'll take a long time for most people to get to the point where that $1k-$2k monthly payment is manageable, whereas the 55-70 year olds had lower costs and a wider window of success to get to that point. Granted, it's not a fair comparison because of time, but the ability of people in their 20's 30's 40's to allocate enough of their income to cars to have new/newish cars has been cut dramatically. You can pull it off during those years if you resign yourself to being a permanent renter/debtor, but the average person is either going to have to do that or wait for many years for that to become feasible - and who knows how much those cars will cost at that point haha.
@@clinttube you’re absolutely right man. One of the reasons I sold mine was taking a hard look at what I was spending on monthly payments for my car while having a kid in grade school and another finishing high school. Plus it was my only car and I was driving A LOT… to the tune of over 75k miles when I sold it in November of 2023. Maintenance was starting to get expensive and I still had other obligations. Had I been in debt or paying back student loans or not making decent money; would’ve been impossible. But even a base 330 with decent options is a hefty ask these days. No wonder people are opting for older fun cars, or newer “appliances” to get the job done.
@@brandonchism6960 (sorry, I was stuck somewhere so thesis incoming)
Dang that is a lot of miles in 2 years lol. Sounds like you made the prudent move. DEFINITELY not worth it in my opinion to be putting that many miles on a new car that's depreciating. However, I'd also say if you're driving that much and spending probably like 10%-25% of your day in your car, it's justifiable to spend an unusually high amount on it.
If I were in your position I'd be trying to find a 5-10 year old high-ish mileage highly depreciated luxury cruiser with some sportiness that gets reasonable hwy mpg. Let somebody else basically do what you did with the M3 but for 1-2 years longer and pick it up then.
Newer performance cars are so expensive partially because they've become such good all-arounders. I think to be financially smart you either have to:
A: accept depreciation and high initial cost on a new performance all-arounder like your M3, or
B: take the added complication/effort/space of splitting duties and finance a used, max bang-for-buck toaster with carplay/adaptive cruise that'll still depreciate some but cost half as much to buy/run/insure, and also have a fun, older, performance car that is done depreciating or is appreciating with collector car insurance/minimal unavoidable annual costs.
I've owned 5 different 6-speed 2004-06 Pontiac GTOs (with a SSR in between - yea I'm weird I guess) for this exact reason. Only car I've ever lost $ on was my 04 I put 125k on it over 7 years. Despite loving the GTO, of course I wanted something different, but they were manageable to repair/run and never depreciated (actually appreciated enough for me put on "free" miles). The only true car "upgrades" I'd consider were $35k-$45k because I'd want something different. No way could I have gotten a mortgage at 25 with a car payment, so I just kept playing that game for 10 years until recently when I was financially ready to allocate significant new $ to cars again.
Even now though, I have a 2005, 2007, and 2009 - all manuals all naturally aspirated 2xV8 and a V10. Friends with their $100k new cars initially wonder what I'm doing but I tell em I honestly cannot prudently afford a single $100k new car. However, spreading miles across 3 rare/non-depreciating $20k-$40k older cars to me maximizes driving pleasure with minimal unavoidable costs. I've convinced myself that math will work, plus while not an investment they're at least a partial inflation hedge which could appreciate significantly over time.
Like you said even underwhelming new base models of "fun" cars with decent options are a lot now. That said, if there's a new/newish car you really love and want to own for 7-10 years, I think it's easier to make the math work to justify the depreciation. The problem is you gotta have the income to cover that chunky payment ON TOP of mortgage/living expenses if you want to actually save any $. Which, although doable, would mean giving up most flexibility to move to a nicer house if an opportunity arises.
I truly am amazed at how so many people afford the $60k-$85k new cars I see driving around everywhere. It can't be they are all actually making $150k-$250k a year with no/minimal debt. Discounting the solid # who have the income/no debt or who have done the sacrificing already/are older, it seems like it's got to be people are just car-poor and don't realize it because they only care about the monthly payment and never have any equity in it. Either that or they are ok with never being able to retire. If it's a business lease write-off that's understandable (albeit not something I think is fairly implemented as a taxpayer), but otherwise I just don't get it because that BMW 530 M-sport or whatever can't be bringing so many people 5 figures/year worth of excess enjoyment lol. Cars aren't the only valuable thing in life.
50:25 It's time for the Icons on the whole Fisker Saga, from the Karma from the first company to the Ocean from the last. Iconic vision, iconic collapse.
Jason, that shirt is cool as HELL!!!
I'm driving a car that's nearly 15 years old - a 987.2 Boxster S that I bought in 2015. Great steering, great handling, faster than I need anywhere but at the track, physical controls, generally great to drive. Why would I want a new one?
Jason, you should get into Motorcycles. The modern engineering and tech is still impressive and not some wealth extraction appliance on 4 wheels.
Aren’t motorcycles getting pricey too? I see them going for $20k+ nowadays
@@TomK-ti8kp yea maybe liter bikes but those are nearly unusable on the street. Middle weight is where it’s at. And you can find plenty of options under 10k on the used market. Even a “beginner” bike will be a world of difference of visceral experience compared to some of the best sports cars. An SV650 can compete with a 911 for example and it’ll be way more raw and exhilarating for 90% less money.
Editing is amazing, props!
We need an Icons episode on the MK7 GTI/Golf
Icons episode about Aston Martin sports cars? Or an episode about Civic and Integra models?
Emira..?
Watching the start and the 992.2 GTS has a SINGLE electric turbo, but they didn't say no to the possibility of putting two on higher models.
Maybe an icons on the F56 Cooper JCW Manual and how they totally messed up the new one. Idk I feel like it’s an overlooked brand (totally not biased as a mini owner)
the resurgence is as derek said - we know we wont have combustion for much longer so we’re celebrating it. i rebuilt my LS 6.0L Ute with overbore, pistons, heads, cam, etc. (value of car in mods) because its the last hurrah.
Great episode! I’d love to learn more about Jason’s new BMW!
Shitcan me if you want, but I would love to see you do an IS500 on Icons, Jason. Imperfect as it may be, there's a lot of interesting history on Lexus related to their performance V8s, and with it tentatively being the last in the line...maybe a good one? Its also not totally unattainable (yet).
Makes J. Leno look like the smartest car guy in the world....
Blackwing Icons!
I don't care about the car, I am just happy they built a V16.
The best news powetrains this year Bugatti Tourbillon and Porsche GTS 😊❤❤
If Miatas were $25k they’d sell hundreds of thousands of them every year. But they’re $40-50k so I’d much rather get a 14 year old Boxster and 2 motorcycles.
Except when the ND came out in 2016, you could get a Sport trim for $25k, and they absolutely did not sell that much. Best year for the ND to date was a little over 11,000 sales.
Adjusted for Inflation its todays worth of 33.130 $
Basic trim today costs 32.480$
One could argue, that it became cheaper.
Have those darn kids gotten off your lawn?
No they would not enthuast would whine that's it's not $15,000 we are eternal cheapskates
Our wages haven't increased to match inflation rates, so I think it's harder for the average person to afford despite that @@FroTzeN12
That Tesla insurance quote is insane. I hope he got competing quotes.
Yeah that’s….unbelievable. I’d believe $550 for a 6 month policy.
This has to be an 18 year old who lives downtown San Francisco? Right? Doesn't make sense for anywhere else
i think car ideals on media underrates this kinda driving fun: normally people are thinking of driving fun as a sense of accomplishment from escaping danger. but much more relevant and less risky/costly is fun of driving efficiently. driving efficiently is making power at optimal RPM and fuel amount especially at down hillish roads (more speed with less torque (pushing power) used, like speeding before uphills. brake and steering minimally and steadily. neutral gear in transmission for coasting which also turns off using hybrid system regenerative braking os it doesnt eat up your coasting speed , and ideally hybrid energy used only on 0 to 5 or 10 miler per hour for max battery longevity per efficiency, minimal tire emissions and tire life loss. mid engine, limited slip differential, also helps.
Damnation, I thought it was just me yelling about high prices, stupid screens & electrojimcrackery. But, it's not just me & that's so sad....
Maybe you sure do an ICONs on America's 1st and very American sports car. The Jeep CJ, YJ, Wrangler. This went to spawn other icons like Land Rover, Land cruiser, bronco, and that whole darn four-wheel drive utility vehicle market.
ICONS could also push into other areas, like off-roaders and motorcycles. Or wait for it, RVs. Haha
For real I would unironically watch an Airstream or Winnebago Icons episode and probably enjoy it.
Icons on Corvette? ZR1's coming.
Where's the Big Block Talk?
I was hoping for a Rear Drive Unit in a 1970 El Dorado. Need more torque.
Are there any kit cars that could work for icons? They aren't icons because too few in number, but they are new, and potentially interesting and affordable.
Icons show idea- find a peak car that hasn’t gotten out of reach. Mk7 Golf R comes to mind. Can do a comparison to the new version
Do an Icons episode on the Lotus Emira?
I'm completely on board with the lack of excitement about new cars. Problem #1 is the outrageous prices that people either can't afford or can afford but refuse to spend. But aside from that, almost everything is way too big, way too heavy, and way too boring. They are loaded with pointless tech that is unreliable and near impossible to fix. The extreme efforts to cut costs have replaced everything with crappy plastic that cracks after a few years. Plastic is now being used for oil pans and control arms! These new cars won't last beyond the warranty and so even enthusiasts won't be enjoying them in the future.
I am 100% with Derek, that even were I tremendously wealthy, I'd much rather drive something older and simpler and enjoyable.
please tell me you guys know the difference between tenet and tenant.
As a Canadian, I would find a way to buy a Ferrari Canada. It would never happen, but it's clearly way better than SuperAmerica
You’re forgetting one huge factor: all those 300mile-drives many of us still need to do within acceptable hours. In most EV’s this is STILL NOT POSSIBLE.
Some of us are just too damn cheap to buy a new car and think they are all ridiculously overpriced
You could try to do Hyundai N with a tie in to their Rally success for an icons. They used to really suck at rally, now they’re good, and they make good street cars based on their motorsport success, like the Elantra in TCR and they also make the I5 N
To your comment about the GR86 and "what are they buying?" When I drive by my old high school it's full to the brim of 2015-2017 Mustangs, Challengers, Chargers, and Camaros. It wasn't like that when I was a kid.
My uncle/aunt recalls their community college parking lot filled with mk3 Supras, which was a current model at the time
today, a fifteen year old car is entirely workable and, aside from small inconveniences like the lack of Apple/Android connectivity, you'd be challenged to point out any significant shortcomings. We haven't bought a new car in a dozen years or more. We don't need to when a low-mile used example is just as good as a new one and will continue to be serviceable and modern for plenty of years to come.
Mazda actually released their new i6 engines (petrol and diesel). Has been out for like 2 years now, outside of USA of course. Mazda bragged about how their new diesel is so clean that they didin't need to add DEF fluid injection but they did it anyways for added cleanliness.
People aren’t buying the BRZ/86. Because it seems like all the publications and reviews are so hyper focused on numbers. How fast it does 0-60 etc… the slow(er) good driving cars get overlooked
Too expensive for what they are. A hatchbak like the I30N usually makes way more sense and is a lot faster. Hell, even something like the I20n or Polo GTI maker more sense in that regard.
@@leviathan5207 your comment proved my point
I'd argue the opposite, to me it seems more and more people are realizing that fast doesn't always mean fun e.g. any Tesla
My crew calls this the "spreadsheet wars" era of cars, where the stats pages matter more to buyers than the actual experience. I place my bets on the vanity life that social media has perpetuated into younger buyers only wanting cars that are "statmaxxing" so they can show off.
@@carsaregood911 and yet I still see journalists and RUclipsrs pointlessly drag racing cars like GR86 or MX5. Which is an utterly pointless thing to do. The idiots even drag race Camrys and are like "well, it's not fast". No fucking shit, Sherlock, how'd you figure that?
There has yet to be an icons on the Demon 170. While it’s very much not a Jason car I wonder if he has forgetten to consider that one.
The base 992.2 was already announced and there is no manual. The S and T are still pending.
The 992.2 GTS is a single turbo enhanced with electric motor. Not a twin turbo.
My first and only new car was a 2012 mustang GT for only $32k. With leather, manual heated seats etc. The entry price for a similar sports car is much more than that now
I made a spreadsheet showing just how sad the new enthusiast market is right now... So many things have disappeared lately or are disappearing right now from the market.
I would have bought a miata or 86 new, they are right in my budget. But after daily driving my s2000 for a year, the only time i had any fun with it was on track or on blizzaks. Theres not really anywhere to enjoy cars like that near me outside of grattan & gingerman. The only thing i like about my s550 is the coyote, but it is significantly easier to enjoy on local roads. I didnt want to buy a third sti when i picked up the honda but honestly i think i should have, cause i havent had as much fun in a daily since then
and that's why I'm going to keep my 26 year old Nissan Patrol forever...anything new has to many electronics to go wrong...Suzuki and the Jimny showed the way
21:37 I am 44 at the moment, and i have never bought a new car my whole "driving life".
I have saved and worked a lot, and i would have enough money to afford a new car, but there is almost nothing interesting on the new car market. Either because the cars are not interesting at all (with the HMI and the engine) or it's in price ranges i could afford, but what i would not pay for a car unless i won the lottery (which have not.)
See, 10 years ago i found a used E63 (with the 6.2) and i don't want to swap it for a 4cyl. (as i wold never be able to get more than 4 cylinders after it.) It's 14 years old now, and still way more fun than most newer cars i tried.
-Something about the people considering an EV as their next car: as you had a discussion why people would not consider: many people i know who consider an EV as their next car don't do so because they like EV's but because they worry what the legal changes could be and they want to be "safe for the next future".
28:20 If that's the case, then they really, really, really f*** up the interior and the HMI, because most of these old people can't really deal with that stuff. (Sure there are some, but most of them can'T afford such cars)
It seems they are making interiours for children in modern cars. (For people more interested to play around with the infotainment than drive safely)
40:00 Mercedes presented a few months ago that they are making a new and different electric motor which needs less space and is lighter and that they are working on a proprietary software operating system.
-I disagree with the Diesel sentiment: with GDI and stuff, the soot particles increased which means todays direct injection gasoline engines need particulate filters too, and so the fuel economy difference between Diesel and gasoline is the same again.
Also the Mazda CX60's 3L inline 6 Diesel is fairly new, and gets great fuel economy. A friend of mine has one, and it used less fuel than his previous Mazda 2.2L Diesel CX5. Depite being a way bigger and heavier car and having way more hp and torque. And you don't get any gasoline engine to that fuel economy. (His averag is 5.4 L /100km at the moment. And the CX5 took 7L/100km -> he didn't change the route, or his driving style. The lowest you get with an SUV of that size with a gasoline engine is almost double the fuel per 100km than his current CX60.)
42:00: Audi and Mercedes use electric Turbos for years now. And they did advertize it, but people have already forgotten, and are now hyped because Porsche does it now and react like Porsche invented it.
The diesel real world fuel economy is a very good point. I don't think the EPA cycle really does justice to the overall benefits of diesel over gas, which has similar advantages to hybrids (more torque and efficiency down low, leading to better city fuel economy over similar gasoline engines). There's a reason diesel has been so successful in Europe.
Icons on the new BMW M5 Touring please! 🙏🏻
Pepperidge farm junior!
34:52 and very likely they will never be any old EV’s that you can drive.
I'd like to see a Icons episode on the new Land Cruiser.....👀
I kind of pointed this out last time when we were discussing EVs and supposed 20 some years olds jumped me and stole my money. I work with a lot of new people and no one is buying a new car let alone a car that doesn't do double duty. Regardless of how nice EVs are and the future, people aren't going to buy EVs unless they are affordable; easier to live with then the alternative.
Edit: my grammar is awful
Let's face it. Jason has conquered the automobile. It's time for him to move onto motorcycles (🙏🙏🙏)
I know they are all autos now, but the C8 Vette is becoming the everyman (everygrandpa?) sports car it has been. Stingrays are dipping into the low $60K range and I am sure we close to a sub $100K Z06 (hello ZR1), which is sweet for a flat plane crank V8.
Not sure how they’re going to offer a manual on the 992.2 with the hybrid setup because one of the e-motors is actually integrated into the pdk transmission
Mine was a 2003 gold (light brown?), much dented and cracked plastic, Chevy Cavalier and I called it "the Golden Cav (calve)". Paid $500 for it and drove it for 5 years. Oh, and I sold it for $550
Maybe the manufacturers could give us these hybrids (because they have to) and make it easy to remove the stuff we don't want (reducing weight and complexity after the purchase).
I'm 24 and any car I can even mentally afford is below 30k. As much as I strongly would like a new car, in the 20-30k budget I'm just better off looking at used. And honestly within that region interest rates are too high for my tastes so I'm holding onto my 2012 Chrsyler 300 that I have a love hate relationship with.
Could Icons focus on people in the auto industry?
I'd love to see an Icons with the Elantra N. But I am an Elantra N owner.
Elantra n for icons?
I have a new Type R and my wife has a new model 3 we pay $160 combined for insurance.
Yeah there must be some confusion there. I’m guessing he thought $550 for a 6 month policy was the monthly price.
The *ultimate* Icons episode has already been filmed by Hagerty colleague Henry Catchpole. What is more iconic than the legendary McLaren F1? And Gordon Murray succeeded it with his T50, taking lightness and ultra driver engagement to the next level. Both are beautifully compared here.
(But the new M5 wagon vs the E34 M5 Touring would be interesting).
ruclips.net/video/cmR2mWBi3co/видео.htmlsi=n1-FxQ2dlr5vRCap
36:29 you like the idea of a WHAT NOW?
37:44 why are you saying it like that???
Looking at the models that are substantially new for 2024, I think your "sporting" Revel-Icons subjects are limited to the Aston or the Emira.
Would a Taco/4Runner/LandCruiser episode tank as bad in the viewcount as i fear it would? I'd still be interested. 🤷🏼♂️
at Emira I was thinking myself as well.
Do an icons on Ineos Grenadier
Re Icons. If S/T is unattainable what about 12cil or Revuelto? Are these budget substitutes? 😂
with the decline of EV prices it opens up opportunities for people who couldn’t afford an EV I think that’s something people are taking about