The Rover SD1 and British Leyland - The Carmudgeon Show w Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep. 132
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- Опубликовано: 11 фев 2024
- In this episode, we take a close look at British Leyland through the eyes of the Rover 3500 (SD1)starts a discussion about the current state of - and scary future of - Stellantis.
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British Leyland was the combined entity of many, many English car brands: Austin, Land Rover, Leyland, MG, Riley, Wolseley, Vanden Plas, Princess, Jaguar, Daimler, Mini, Innocenti, Morris, Rover, Triumph, and several others.
This sounds remarkably similar to today's Stellantis: Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Citroën, Dodge, DS, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Opel, Peugeot, Ram, and Vauxhall.
The curmudgeonly Carmudgeons look to see if history is about to repeat itself, exploring what went wrong with the development and production of the gorgeous Rover SD1.
The Carmudgeon Show is part of the Hagerty Podcast Network 
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So when brits say american cars suck, they speak from the seat of knowledge.
Yes and no but definitely yes
yeah but we usually mean cars from the malaise era when we think of American crap, so happens to be the same time as BL's worst years of 1974-78. A lot of crap on the roads around the world in the 1970s and early 80s.
GM had 60% of the US market once, now about 15%.
Also, with the best will in the world, a landyacht isn't fitting in the village. Modern Ravs don't either, but that's a different problem.
Or through the seat of knowledge?
You were kind of tiptoeing around Stellantis, but I wouldn't mind an episode focused on them. Leyland is a story, and worth knowing about, but it's also 40 years dead. Stellantis might be in the process of dying right now. Plus I think people might have more familiarity with the marques concerned with Stellantis, at least compared to the byzantine British car family tree.
I have been referring to Stellantis as "Global Leyland" for some time.
Turns out, that might not be off.
Global Leyland, amazing!
The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off 😁
Lucas didn't invent darkness but lay claim to sudden unexpected darkness.
They also made refrigerators that couldn't cool beer either.
@@rturner4205 that's why the Brits drink warm beer.
My dad would always say “Lucas - the Prince of Darkness”
XJ40 was the one designed to not be able to fit the Rover V8. It had an extremely long gestation period. Circa 10 years.
XJ81 (XJ40 V12) was released in 93 7 years after XJ40 launch in 86
(I have an XJ81)
Love this podcast. Wonderful geekery and enthusiasm. Best car podcast full stop!!
I live in the usa and own an SD1, a series 2 in the alluring moonraker blue, a color name that evokes images of roger moore raising an ironic eyebrow. As far as SD1s go, they are very unusual, ive yet to see another over here, and they are an undeniably cool car thats actually surprisingly fun and fast, especially with the dirty 80s euro efi vitesse engine.
As for this show and the revelations piece, I was astonished at how well researched informed and correct it all was, not just detail on brand and model evolution but how everything fitted at a national politics, industrial policy, labor relations and economics level. There was the odd thing too pedantic to even mention,but for not living in the country or during those strife ridden times it was amazing. Congrats.
There was a guy in the USA that collected SD1's ...he had a LOT! I saw it on a program with Richard Rawlings I think. I had the 2600 in Moonraker then the 3500 Van den Plas.....great cars.
Yes to a revelations on the K-car. Supported Chrysler for over 40 years (1980 through Jason's Van-gina).
Triumph 2000/2500 saloons were six cylinders. Austin Maestro wasn't a Honda, but the Rover 213/216 series was (and the later 200/400/600 series of the 90s).
Thank the whoever. Needed this today.
Morris garage. Well blow me down. I never even wondered what MG stood for and I'm English...
Oh dang it, I learned something today! 😂
Many memories for me as a child growing up in Jamaica in the mid 60's. My Aunt had an Austin Cambridge. Another family member drove a Morris Oxford. Same car in everything but the name. My father had a Riley 4/72 Saloon which I'm pretty sure was the same car, but the Riley was more "sporting/luxurious". Hearing them mention Rootes also brought back memories of said Aunt who then bought a Humber Sceptre. Twin Stromberg carbs and electric overdrive FTW!!
my dad bought a brand new Maroon/bordeaux SD1 (2600) around 1980, in Belgium. Maroon velours interior as well i think. We loved it. We could hear him 3 or 4 miles further down the road...of course it ended very badly with uncountable trips to the rare dealerships and ending in a cloud of smoke in a tunnel somewhere in Spain. I was around 7 years old then, and remember the calamity vividly. :D The car never came home again.
Rootes Group (Hillman, Humber, Singer, Sunbeam, Commer and Karrier) were fully bought out by Chrysler in 1970 and sold to Peugeot Group (PSA) in 1978 which resurrected the Talbot marque until 1986 (cars) and 1994 (commercial).
I like how you have Alfa Romeo books on both sides of the table, so Jason AND Derek can have Alfa in the background of their closeups.
The Jaguar engine bay design to not fit the Rover V8 was indeed the XJ40. BL was just so dysfunctional that the XJ40 didn't come out until 1986, but the XJ40 project had been underway since 1972 in order to replace the Series 1/2 XJ6. Due to BL's financial troubles in the 70's, the project kept getting delayed, the Series XJ cars kept getting updates (Series 3, which was done on a shoestring budget w/ Pininfarina), and the XJ40 didn't happen until later on after BL when they got a modern factory, manufacturing capability, etc. They didn't bother to design the XJ40 engine bay for the V12 because they figured nobody would be interested in a V12 (after the 2 fuel crises).... Then BMW and Merc both came out with their V12 so they basically said "ah, shit" and had to redesign the front half of the car to fit the V12. XJ40 got the V12 for one year to replace the Series 3 XJ12 (which had been going on outside of the US until 1993!), then it got redesigned into the X300/X305 XJ12 after that 1994 model year.
XJ81 available for 93 and 94 in the UK
More Jason in my life is always a good thing.
Also, AP/Lockheed was a common supplier to BMC/BMH/BL, so "AP Racing Brakes" weren't so exotic at the time. Also, Lucas owned Girling, who was another prominent hydraulics and brake manufacturer that supplied BMC/BMH/BL, so while the possibility exists that a Girling caliper would be labeled as a Lucas, AP were in competition WITH Lucas/Girling, so no, there would not have been a Lucas AP caliper. Thank you for attending my Ted talk.
Lockheed aircraft brakes at Banbury. Car clutches also at Leamington Spa. Most of my family worked there at one time, myself included.
If you were really going to do a British Leyland show, the screen should have gone dark for several minutes in the middle, followed by intermittent performance afterward, maybe punctuated by an electrical fire.
Hoping to have my SD1 running by next week!
"hoping" 🤣🤣 The eternal mantra of Rover owners.
Very true lol. It has been a weird car because it should have been a basketcase but is somehow rust free and everything electrical works.
The EFI ECU died and the last owner gave up halfway converting it to carb as he was moving states but had owned it since new. All I have left is ignition and I'm done so super excited. @@TML34
Where can we watch this adventure unfold?
@@JasonCammisa I need to share to socials but can send you pics on Instagram! Identical year and spec but the paint is JRG and not blue
The evolution of the Fiat Company since Gianni Agneli ( la dolce vita ) is an interesting story. How we arrived at Sergio Marchione vision of a Global network is a fascinating story. Of family fudes and the HQ leaving Italy for the Netherlands. Many are STILL upset - Italians are quite a proud bunch. Giannis wife never spoke to her grandson again, despite him being the one to make it work . There would be no modern Gulia without Sergio RIP.
so that's the reason for margherita denunce of john elkann? anyway shit soon is going to hit the fan in France and Italy halving the plants
@@vercingetorige400 Gianni left a will, John Elkann was to inherit it. His wife, Marella ( 'The Last Swan' - decended from Nobility ) at his death missed out and she sued, but lost. I am not sure that Gianni's son Edoardo (who died in an odd car accident ) would have done any better. Giovanni before them profited greatly from military equipment supply, but this was siezed destroyed. Gianni rebuilt it. I love The Carmudgen boys, but the difference between the English mixyblob is they were at war within the group making 'competing' products and This Dutch HQ conglomeration isnt as bad. I'm not saying their products aren't bad. Some of them are woeful. But Sergio's vision of copying VW and being 'Too big to fail' was correct. Fiat let Lancia , Mazerati, Alfa Romeo whither away on the vine. Withouut the expansion it would ALL most likely be dead. Mary Barra will most likeley presude over GMs demise before Stelantis folds, who will bail either out with taxpayers money. Only one thing IS certain, there will never be another giant of industry like " L'Avvocato " . I'm STILL waiting for these two guys to get off their butts and do the Piech podcast . . . . . ! A facinating story right there.
@@ronzelina6682 you seems too much informed to not be italian
The SD1 story had one more twist. The factory tooling was shipped to India when production ended in the UK, and the car rebranded as a Standard 2000 with an old Standard 4 cylinder engine (Standard being another defunct British brand that was dropped by Triumph not long before they merged with Rover). There is a Bollywood film on RUclips with a dance routine set in the factory. Few cars were actually produced, but loads of panels and components lay around for years, before being bought by a British parts specialist that shipped them back annd is still selling some of them now! Leyland needed to rationalise more quickly than they did, and then BMW under estimated what required. They made a good job of turning around the ex Morris factory that built the MK2 SD1, 800 and 75 to build the Mini and are still investing in it. However, would love to see Rover return as a former owner - the only hope is if JLR ever needed to launch more aero dynamic EVs than couldn't be produced as Land Rover products, especially now Jaguar is in the process of being relaunched as a super luxury brand.
The narrow engine bay to prevent the Rover v8 was the XJ40. The XJ81 was a redesign of the XJ40 to fit the V12, as customers still wanred a V12 Jaguar.
By Jove, Pinky and Perky have done it again! Good show lads. 😄
Great Episode, just a couple of mistakes,
The Austin Maestro wasn't based on a Honda, possibly confused it with the Rover 200 series.
I owned a Rover 75 V6, one of the last ones built in 2004.
Loved it great car
PEAK CARMUDGEON. Virtually every insert is gorgeous, fun to drive, and a soulful, frosty, fookin, pint. Corroded as well.
I am from Lincolnshire. I work in Grantham where Margret Thatcher comes from. There is a statue of her there which is constantly being vandalised. In that spirit I drive an MGTF because it would annoy her.
I grew up in a Rover owning household in Australia. My brother still has my father’s 82SE SD1. A pretty decent car by the time of the series 2. And one of my favourite instrument clusters.
The Triumph Stag is another one that dodged the Rover V8, they put a terrible overheating lump of their own development in on an otherwise splendid car and it killed the Stag in the end...
Thank you and Love this. My first car was an MGA, worked as a mechanic at a JRT/Peugeot dealer in the early 80's and knew most of the history, but refresher is nice. I loved driving the SD1's we had at the time, in for service or new. REALLY Love this as I JUST bought a 7'x5' original BMC/Austin/Austin Healey/MG dealership sign a week ago on BaT! BL was a disaster..and by 1980 the MGB wouldn't die, but the Triumph TR7 wouldn't sell. The Triumph was favored by BL and basically said the only way you could get new MGBs was to take extra TR7's... right up until they killed the MGB.
I sharply remember the SD1 when it was on sale (early 1980's) and it was very beautiful at a distance. Even back then, if you were close enough, gaps and paint were bad. If a W123 was parked side-by-side, the SD1 looked like a shepherd's shack. My father waited for the 800, since it was said to be much better.... but not really.
I'm a simple man. I see Jason does "Rover," and I click "Like."
Why is this episode still not on Spotify?
Because last week’s episode was too embarrassing and they want to screen these before publishing?
I’m sad we didn’t get a sequel to the previous episode
Not yet, but you will!
A full hour into the episode, I finally realize Jason is wearing a Throttle House hoodie.
Love these episodes. So factual and interesting. ❤
Also Solihull isn’t in Essex, it’s pretty much the opposite side of the country and considerably further North.
Pressed in liners vs cast in liners was the big change on RV8 vs Buick 215
Grew up in Austin Cambridge. Then family went to Rover 3500S in 1971. Have been around the 3500 V8 since then. Have 2 1980 sd1 3500'S. Along with 2 later 1980's Range Rovers. Enjoy the V8 a lot. Am a Kansas farmer that loves
BMC and Rover cars. Daily beater is a old Benz 300D.
On the subject of k cars...
About 20 something years ago myself and 2 other Airmen were delivering about 20 vehicles for a visiting NAOC aircraft. It was getting repetitive shuttling back and forth, and some racing ensured.
When the dodge caravan that was chasing the reliant k got pulled over for speeding, the cop was told that the driver if the k car had radioed that the throttle was stuck and they couldn't show down, and that as proffesional drivers we had been tought to get in front of it, and use the van to slow it down.
The cop looked quizzical and then just let everyone go.
On Jaguar you're both right - they engineered the XJ40 to never take a V engine, but the design of the XJ40 started back in the early 70s, it was I believe a 12 year development with many stops and starts
That was a good conversation. The TWR track SD1's really gave these cars street cred in the UK
This episode is still not up on the overcast app
BMW 2002s also had 4-piston front calipers paired with drums in the rear, with a non ventes rotor! Not sure when in the NK lineage that those calipers were added though, may have been present in earlier 1600/1602 or 1800/1802 cars in the sixties, or the big Bavarias too.
this is the first podcast to have an actual jumpscare in this whole milky way universe i think 5:21
Revelations on the mr2?
@derrek ... Chrysler Rootes was a second merger and never went into British Leyland.
That was Chrysler UK being formed by buying rootes ..
Rootes brothers had bought significant historic brand..
The French Talbot group..which got merged into part of Sunbeam.
Rootes bought many brands
Sunbeam was rootes sporting brand (vs MG, triumph)
Hillman the economy brand ( vs Austin)
Humber the luxury brand ( vs rover)
Singer (vs Riley )
Commer industrial (vs Leyland)
You guys need to go to New Zealand and Australia at some time. 73% of all cars were British. The switch to Japanese cars in the 80's was a Tsunami.
OK GM Hierarchy (1940s-1970s):
Chevrolet - Working Man's car to compete with Ford. (Cheap Cast Iron Engines, last to get pressurized oils systems and oil filters, leaf springs when Olds, Buick and Cadillac all had 4 wheel coil spring suspension)
Pontiac - Performance Division (shared the platform with Chevrolet 40s-50s, Joined Olds and Buick on the larger platforms starting in the 1960s)
Oldsmobile - Technology Division (First OHV V-8, automatic transmissions, mass produced front wheel drive)
Buick - Best of the Proven Technology with the Most Refinement of that technology. Luxury Car for people who can't be seen spending Cadillac money, (Doctors, Small Business owners, executives, etc) Basically Mercedes/BMW/Audi of today.
Cadillac - American Rolls Royce. Old Money, Air conditioning and power windows before Rolls Royce had them by almost a decade.
Interesting fact Police Car Sales before 1955
Ford #1 in Police Car Production
Chevrolet #2 in Police Car Production
Buick #3 in Police Car Production, it was the fastest, most durable, most reliable car they could buy for the money.
In 1955 California Highway Patrol selected the Buick Century as the Enforcement Class vehicles purchased for that year.
The Buick Century was the large Buick Straight 8 in the smaller Buick Platform, first mass produced car to achieve and maintain 100 mph hence the Century nameplate.
Some things to put in perspective:
- Stellantis managed to turn Opel/Vauxhall around, after GM forgot how to manage them properly and lost money on those brands for most of the 21st century
- Stellantis spans multiple nations (US, UK, France, Germany & Italy, plus Canada, Poland & Serbia), instead of just 1 for BL; whether it spreads the risk or makes things more complex remains to be seen
- VW seems to show how to manage various brands under the same roof (VW, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Skoda, Bentley, SEAT, Cupra) with a small number of common modular platforms; Stellantis is rolling out the STLA platforms in similar fashion
- In a case of reverse colonialism, Tata Motors of India owns Jaguar Land Rover
Another car with a strangely enough brakes scheme with rear drums and front 4 piston discs was the soviet Moskvitch 2140 from 1975 powered by an astonishing 75 h.p motor
Do a revelations episode on the US 🍋 of the 70s.
Always remember Richard Hammond's short film on the Rover V8 and SD1.
Behold Stallantis now is thinking about merging with Renault, creating the biggest group with old and overlapping products. Bmw buyout of Rover was a cash bloodbath, the subsequent sell was for 1 pound
freetomove and leasys are leasing/rental companies by the way, not surprising you never heard of them. they dont really make cars.
Cheers from italy
nice hoodie Jason!
As a Mopar fan, and knowing they've always been broke. This is probably the scariest I've been for the fate of the company.
I drove an Oldsmobile V8 coupe in high school, although not anything with the iconic 442 big block. It was definitely exciting, but mostly because I drove so poorly. I also sold the car for the same (paltry) price that I paid for it. However, I wanted to add to the comments that Oldsmobile was the best selling car in the USA for multiple years to close the 1970s, as my two cents. Perhaps Oldsmobile was the unexpected brand of GM; I did not expect the brand to fold, after all.
I love the 75 ,😢😢
You guys should look into the P76 story
As a car designer, I think we have unfortunately come to a point in global market logic where the return on making honest cars that follow a vernacular design language that gives a car a sense of place is simply too low to sustain the effort. What we end up with as Jason alludes to in his comments on Bentayga is caricature because real design features that would build a sense of identity only appeal to the small fraction of us who actually care about cars for what they are and not the status that they confer.
Blimey! A Rocky Horror reference! Cheeky Jason!
A Revelations on the Leyland P76 would be quite something.
I'd say a calling Stellantis a new BL is a bit much. They are in quite a bit less trouble than some other brands like Jaguar, Nissan and Aston Martin which I think may disappear earlier. Stellantis may close down Chrysler and Dodge but will through Jeep and Ram offer a competitor to the dreary crossovers and SUVs/trucks of GM and Ford.
No, I think the comparison is quite spot on. The parallels between Stellantis today and Leyland in the late 1960s are quite strong. Stellantis has too many dispersed brands in old factories needing huge funds for R&D to transition from ICE cars to EVs, plus feuding divisions in different countries, and badge engineering gone mad. Leyland in the 60s/70s had the same problems with ancient factories, no capital to reinvest, badge engineering everywhere and feuding divisions over resources. Stellantis will have to drop brands to survive, but they could easily drop the wrong ones and end up exactly like Leyland, dropping the wrong ones and loosing sales.
I think the story of British Leyalnd is (even) more political than you paint it. It was put under one roof because of ideology. It had factories in ill-advised places because of ideology. The cars were shoddy because you couldn't sack people because of ideology. Margaret Thatcher wouldn't have one because of ideology. It was broken up and sold because of ideology. Chrystler's business decisions may be questionable, but they are largely business decisions. So, I think there's a bit more hope for them than Britsh Leyland.
Covid totally f'ed me up. I got long covid as a result of working out while I had covid and didn't know it. Everyone is affected differently, but for me ivermectin made a night and day difference. Wim Hoff breathing and cold exposure can help too for nervous and immune system issues. Good luck!
Around 32:41, you mention a car that was specifically engineered to not accept the Rover V8 because of corporate rivalry; the Stag may have been what you're thinking about, but if not, guess what! It TOO was made in such a way to promote their new V8 made from two TR7 4-cylinders.
I’d love a big in-depth episode on Mercedes, focusing on where they were in the 70s/80/s to where they landed in the 00s and where you think you should be going into the future.
8:00 - 8:45 is a reasonably harmonious 45 seconds
WOW was Jaguar so petty lmao
I look forward to seeing the revelations about the K car, and how Lee iacocca turned Chrysler into a Mexican restaurant.
The Maestro (pronounced "My-stro") wasn't related to any Honda products, and was developed independently by Austin-Rover alongside the Montego long before the joint venture with Honda.
Also the 800 was related to the Legend, but not not "literally a Legend". It had differences in suspension, some unique engines and its own body and interior.
That shold actualy be Stellantis's logo :DD 5:23
My home now sits on the land that the Rover East works use to be .
The rear 3/4 of the 827SLI @1:04:29 looks a LOT like a Merkur Scorpio.
The British Car Industry and Our Part in its Downfall is an interesting book that covers 60 years from the end of WW2 to the collapse of Rover
Spen King was Tech Director at Triumph & during the Ryder Report fallout, cancellation of P8 (which was a long way down the line as mentioned but nowhere near out of the woods in terms of engineering robusteness/sign off)..that fact & the realisation + constraints from the government meant that there was no choice but to repurpose what already existed which resulted in the SD1. The fact that it's the same guy in charge of the technical side means you end up with the same solution. Is a quartic steering wheel all that different to C8 & what Aston are doing?
I would be interested in knowing from Jason and Derek if they think that the US automotive industry was any better during the malaise period than Britsh Leyland was during the Thatcher period?
The us industry had a different set of problems during the malaise era. Yes, quality hit all time lows, but the biggest problem, in my opinion, was the struggle to meet emissions targets. That’s why we had seven liter engines with 135 horsepower. The engines were never designed for epa regulations and all kinds of 1/2 assed solutions were implemented to clean them up. It wasn’t until the late 1980s that power made a comeback
@joetz1 yeah power made a comeback thanks to the Japanese manufacturers building decent cars for the US market
cool Aye Eff.
The easiest way to understand these big consolidations is that car brands become trim levels.
You miss the fact that the vast majority of cars with sunroofs have the drains routed into the rockers / sills which basically ensures they are always damp inside so not unique in that respect. Series 2 SD1 instruments were unique - nothing to do with Range Rover although similar in style. Calipers (not AP racing specifically, general AP product line in cast iron) were actually originally on the Austin Princess which also had drums on the rear.....same as the first generation Austin Metro which used smaller AP 4 pots on the front & drums on the rear. The Pricess calipers were an upgrade option for a lot of period Fords - they were cheap & plentiful in scrapyards!
The Rover SD1 won car of the year 1977 the uK Police loved the V8 watch the liver run from 1987
imagine if they kept developing the sd1 with the rover v8 and the 2800, if you think that is not possible, just look at the Range Rover that pretty much didn't changed from 1970 to 1995 and later with the p38 it was almost the same thing with ergonomics in mind.
I had a Giulia, it stopped dead of its own accord and refused to move thirteen times in the first few months of ownership. I got my money back.
Hmm, Stellantis platform sharing- can we talk about Maserati Grecale/Jeep Grand Cherokee??
The SD1 was such a let down after the P6. One was a delight, a technical masterpiece with loads on innovative design, and one was a cost cutting step backwards…
The XJ40 engine bay statement is often repeated but the truth is a bit more muddy. Spen King asked the question & was told that the RV8 wouldn't fit in the XJ40 engine bay but that was as far as it webt. Given that there are XJ40s, XJS etc which have retrofitted with all sorts of engines from small block Ford / Chevy / LS it's fair to assume that the much more compact RV8 would easily fit...it went under the bonnet of an MGB! The reality was tha RV8 was production constrained given the increase in demand of RRC & Series V8. If there was ever a BL engibe decision which didn't make sense it was the Stag V8....that was frankly nuts!
Industry consolidation was a hallmark of UK govt policy in the 1960s. Not just the car industry - aerospace and computers. Generally a catastrophic series of failures.
SD1 never had a quartic wheel, the allegro only did for a couple of years as it was so widely hated
I just bought a new Chrysler 300C 6.4V8, so you are saying I basically bought the equivalent of the Rover 3500 Vitesse from Stellantis.🤣🤣
Yea, it really is too bad GM never got the metallurgy right on the Buick 215. Interestingly the V6 was sold to Kaiser for the Jeep lines in 1967 because the idle was "too rough" for a luxury car. Gas Crisis hit and GM asked Jeep for their engine back, AMC sold it back.
Rover P5 knockoff is fun to play as in Wreckfest
How many in the VW group ? Is that going the same way?
VW's group is more levels of luxury or performance. Not merging several comparable groups that cannot afford to stand alone.
Absolutely not. Sure diesel gate has hurt them. But VW and VW group is huge, for very good reasons. it's certainly not because they're broke 🤣
Volkswagen, Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles, ŠKODA, SEAT, CUPRA, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Porsche and Ducati
@@bentucker2301also Bugatti, MAN and Scania. And a few more.
I remember the Sterling, but not how they screwed up a Honda....
Maserati Kyalami/Detamaso Longchamp was the design 39:30 that pissed off Maserati into the Quattroporte2 Citroen era that born the QPiii of the 80s.
we (in Australia) called the P76 the pregnant elephant. Not really a term of endearment
Sad this was not a continuation of the stereotypes
maybe do a revelations on the Renault alliance. and when AMC folded into Chrysler and took America’s auto industry from 4 down to the big 3.
I’m British and 63 so remember all this. My Mum’s first car was a Sunbeam Rapier and was a great car built by Rootes. After the war the country was very poor trying to pay off all the US war loans. The factories were all Victorian and couldn’t compete with the new rebuilt German factories. My Dad bought a very high spec XJ 6 in 1973 and caught fire when it was six years old. The politics inside BL meant that Triumph refused to use the Rover V8 in the Stag and days after launch had heads warping. I learnt to drive in a Morris Marina 1.3 and the under steer was frightening! My brother bought a lovely old Rover P5 3.5 in about 1979 for peanuts but seized it after a few weeks because he’s an idiot. Thatcher was right, she knew what quality was. Surprised you didn’t mention the Princess, another totally shit car. The same thing will happen to the US car industry as happened with the Japanese but this time it’s the Chinese.
Gardam - that P8 (19:142j is horrendous!
The Stellantis brands represent the remains of the old European order, where tariffs between countries allowed local manufacturers to exist. With the relaxation of tariffs in 1993 the economic case for a domestic car market in each country started to dissolve.
Rolling up all of those companies has a logic if done right. Platform engineering can produce cars that meet the needs of a particular market - see: Skoda or SEAT in the VW Group. If the supply chain is distributed around the home countries for the various brands like Airbus has done, could produce a good result.
By contrast British Leyland was dealing with a bunch of Zombie brands that were heavily weighted to seriously obsolete sports cars that didn't make the transition through the safety and emissions regulations enacted in the '60s and '70s.
Combine that with a sclerotic siloed sclerotic management and a restive labor force and the failure was no surprise at all.