solid grounding in the theory behind algorithms, data structures, and computational models. Theoretical understanding of cryptography, machine learning, and computational physics. Renowned lecturers of computer vision or natural language processing. Just first that comes to my mind. Surely you dont need any of this to make a website or an app. But calling HE "useless" is simply lack of understanding how broad scope is "software development" University is not there to teach you coding. Thats what courses are for. It's like saying "PhD in architecture is useless, I can mount bathtub myself" - two completely different stories
"University is not there to teach you coding" - Believing that knowing complex theory about cryptography, algorithms, data structures, and complex software development theory is equivalent to having a degree is a fundamental misunderstanding many people have done before you. To illustrate that fact, here's the documentation for the cryptography parts of my own project (created by somebody with 9 years of formal education) ... docs.ainiro.io/plugins/magic.lambda.crypto/ Now if I had a couple of hours to repeat the theory, I could probably write out both RSA and Elliptic Curve on a whiteboard, without looking at the documentation, can you? I can also probably write out 5 different sorting algorithms on a white board without references, can you? I could probably advise on what data structure to use for whatever data storage problem you're currently facing, without looking, can you? I can manually write out the math for distance calculations for normalised vectors of 1,500 dimensions without looking, can you? I can explain the algorithms behind collision detection in a polygon based rendering engine, in addition to implementing raytracing if I was pushed really hard, can you? I have 9 years of formal education, how much education do you have? I am sorry for sounding harsh here, and I don't mean to come across as bragging - But believing that university will teach you things you cannot teach yourself without a degree, is a *fundamental misunderstanding* a lot of people have fell for before you ...
@@CrucialFlowResearch I dont think you know what software engineering is, good Sir. Autonomous cars is software engineering, inverted square root in Doom is software engineering. Your PHP is web development and has as much in common with software engineering as chair has with electric chair. Great that you use mysql for your homepage but can you CREATE mysql engine? The word "engineer" means something, the fact that you call yourself an engineer - doesnt make you one.
@@jonathanhirschbaum6754 As an outsider, it seems to me that someone with a CS degree or a Math degree has stronger fundamental understanding of how things in software and hardware actually work beyond the abstractions a coder does. This is similar to mathematicians and physicists: the first engage in pure investigation of the discipline, the others use it as a means for understanding real-world scenarios. For software, no it is not necessary if you are developing and joining premade components together in order to build something. But if there ever comes a point where a coder has to know how something works in order to actually implement it, he will have a harder time than the person that actually learned how it is done. A software developer cannot do what a CS grad does, but because he has spent much more time tinkering with the tools than the latter he can be more useful in most practical scenarios. The CS grad will more likely be able to do what the other does, but because time invested in learning low level concepts he is unlikely to perform as well within a practical time frame. Hence the disdain for academics.
@@jonathanhirschbaum6754 @ainiro true , what he said was that not having a degree does not matter , one could learn and develop what one wants or is really passionate about , but is having one wrong or useless ? , i don't think so , If u can afford it , If u have time , If u want to move to another country (easy student VISA grant ) for all this education is required . More than the out dated theory that one would be learning at university it would be the people he/she would be meeting , they could be ur future startup founders , who knows ? , at last this video gives hope to people that don't have a formal education . this piece of media should not be dis-motivation to someone who wants to pursue formal education in the field of software development and computer science.
It takes a lot of experience, skill and talent to be able to architect and design a complex software system. If that's a "code monkey" for you, then yes, I'm a code monkey - And so are 85% of the world's software developers too ...
I think one thing you're missing here is that Higher Education usually implies collaborating with people and presenting your ideas, using the concepts that you just learned. Either if it is Programming basics, OOP, ML, Algorithms; they're all technical subjects which you need to bash your head through, but only after you express your understanding of the subject, you develop something unique in your mind. And that skill is very important in areas where you stumble upon new stuff, and you need to collaborate with other devs using that stuff. University gives you the opportunity to do that with people that struggle as hard as you.
I took many advanced math courses in university, and I do appreciate those experiences for math classes, but I got suspended for writing an email and never looked back when I realized how stupid these bureaucrats are over some stupid email. Universities are completely broken and cannot be fixed in the forseeable fututre. Computer programming comes from internally, not externally, so external institutions cannot provide those internal motivations and pathways needed for computer programming.
I agree, teaching computer programming is like teaching how to be a great painter, or writer - Such as Picasso or Shakespeare - It simply cannot be taught, it must be experienced - At which point with enough iterations, you'll inevitably learn how to create master pieces ... The only difference between you and Picasso, is that he spent 40 years doing nothing but painting. Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman too, or Alan Kay to use a less "controversial" example only have one thing most others don't have; Experience having created millions of lines of code over the years. Spend 50,000+ hours writing code, and studying other peoples' code, and "brilliance" becomes the natural side effect. The problem with kids coming straight out of college, is that they believe they actually know something valuable after having spent some 3 to 5 years in some job. The only thing they actually know, is how to *not* create software - Something they've learned from their team members having even more experience in how to *not* create software ... I started coding when I was 8, I'm 50 today, and I've got some 18,000+ commits to GitHub the last 7 years alone. Any "talent" I have is simply a product of extreme dedication, extreme amounts of coding, and nothing else ... If you want to learn how to play the violin, then play the violin. If you want to learn how to code, then code - It's really that simple ... :)
solid grounding in the theory behind algorithms, data structures, and computational models. Theoretical understanding of cryptography, machine learning, and computational physics. Renowned lecturers of computer vision or natural language processing. Just first that comes to my mind.
Surely you dont need any of this to make a website or an app. But calling HE "useless" is simply lack of understanding how broad scope is "software development"
University is not there to teach you coding. Thats what courses are for.
It's like saying "PhD in architecture is useless, I can mount bathtub myself" - two completely different stories
"University is not there to teach you coding" - Believing that knowing complex theory about cryptography, algorithms, data structures, and complex software development theory is equivalent to having a degree is a fundamental misunderstanding many people have done before you. To illustrate that fact, here's the documentation for the cryptography parts of my own project (created by somebody with 9 years of formal education) ...
docs.ainiro.io/plugins/magic.lambda.crypto/
Now if I had a couple of hours to repeat the theory, I could probably write out both RSA and Elliptic Curve on a whiteboard, without looking at the documentation, can you? I can also probably write out 5 different sorting algorithms on a white board without references, can you? I could probably advise on what data structure to use for whatever data storage problem you're currently facing, without looking, can you? I can manually write out the math for distance calculations for normalised vectors of 1,500 dimensions without looking, can you? I can explain the algorithms behind collision detection in a polygon based rendering engine, in addition to implementing raytracing if I was pushed really hard, can you? I have 9 years of formal education, how much education do you have?
I am sorry for sounding harsh here, and I don't mean to come across as bragging - But believing that university will teach you things you cannot teach yourself without a degree, is a *fundamental misunderstanding* a lot of people have fell for before you ...
You are confused, because none of that is software engineering, so all this criticism falls apart.
@@CrucialFlowResearch I dont think you know what software engineering is, good Sir. Autonomous cars is software engineering, inverted square root in Doom is software engineering.
Your PHP is web development and has as much in common with software engineering as chair has with electric chair. Great that you use mysql for your homepage but can you CREATE mysql engine? The word "engineer" means something, the fact that you call yourself an engineer - doesnt make you one.
@@jonathanhirschbaum6754
As an outsider, it seems to me that someone with a CS degree or a Math degree has stronger fundamental understanding of how things in software and hardware actually work beyond the abstractions a coder does. This is similar to mathematicians and physicists: the first engage in pure investigation of the discipline, the others use it as a means for understanding real-world scenarios.
For software, no it is not necessary if you are developing and joining premade components together in order to build something.
But if there ever comes a point where a coder has to know how something works in order to actually implement it, he will have a harder time than the person that actually learned how it is done.
A software developer cannot do what a CS grad does, but because he has spent much more time tinkering with the tools than the latter he can be more useful in most practical scenarios.
The CS grad will more likely be able to do what the other does, but because time invested in learning low level concepts he is unlikely to perform as well within a practical time frame. Hence the disdain for academics.
@@jonathanhirschbaum6754 @ainiro true , what he said was that not having a degree does not matter , one could learn and develop what one wants or is really passionate about , but is having one wrong or useless ? , i don't think so , If u can afford it , If u have time , If u want to move to another country (easy student VISA grant ) for all this education is required . More than the out dated theory that one would be learning at university it would be the people he/she would be meeting , they could be ur future startup founders , who knows ? , at last this video gives hope to people that don't have a formal education . this piece of media should not be dis-motivation to someone who wants to pursue formal education in the field of software development and computer science.
This video is basically "higher education is useless if you want to be a code monkey", which is true
It takes a lot of experience, skill and talent to be able to architect and design a complex software system. If that's a "code monkey" for you, then yes, I'm a code monkey - And so are 85% of the world's software developers too ...
I think one thing you're missing here is that Higher Education usually implies collaborating with people and presenting your ideas, using the concepts that you just learned. Either if it is Programming basics, OOP, ML, Algorithms; they're all technical subjects which you need to bash your head through, but only after you express your understanding of the subject, you develop something unique in your mind. And that skill is very important in areas where you stumble upon new stuff, and you need to collaborate with other devs using that stuff. University gives you the opportunity to do that with people that struggle as hard as you.
That's true, and there is learning value in collaboration - But I've got another video here about teamwork you should watch ...
I took many advanced math courses in university, and I do appreciate those experiences for math classes, but I got suspended for writing an email and never looked back when I realized how stupid these bureaucrats are over some stupid email. Universities are completely broken and cannot be fixed in the forseeable fututre. Computer programming comes from internally, not externally, so external institutions cannot provide those internal motivations and pathways needed for computer programming.
I agree, teaching computer programming is like teaching how to be a great painter, or writer - Such as Picasso or Shakespeare - It simply cannot be taught, it must be experienced - At which point with enough iterations, you'll inevitably learn how to create master pieces ...
The only difference between you and Picasso, is that he spent 40 years doing nothing but painting. Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman too, or Alan Kay to use a less "controversial" example only have one thing most others don't have; Experience having created millions of lines of code over the years. Spend 50,000+ hours writing code, and studying other peoples' code, and "brilliance" becomes the natural side effect.
The problem with kids coming straight out of college, is that they believe they actually know something valuable after having spent some 3 to 5 years in some job. The only thing they actually know, is how to *not* create software - Something they've learned from their team members having even more experience in how to *not* create software ...
I started coding when I was 8, I'm 50 today, and I've got some 18,000+ commits to GitHub the last 7 years alone. Any "talent" I have is simply a product of extreme dedication, extreme amounts of coding, and nothing else ...
If you want to learn how to play the violin, then play the violin. If you want to learn how to code, then code - It's really that simple ... :)
Very interesting
What a great channel! Thank you for speaking.
Thank you, but before you quit school, make sure you see my conclusion at the end of the video - So I don't give you "damaging advice" ... :)