Post Office Inquiry: Former CEO accused of ‘living in la la land’
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2024
- 'There were so many forks in the road but you always took the wrong path, didn't you': the opening line from a lawyer representing subpostmasters at the Horizon Inquiry today.
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In response, Paula Vennells broke down in tears as she insisted that she "loved the Post Office" and named a series of executives and legal counsels who she claimed had let her down.
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Claw back the bonuses and send her to prison.
take her house pension and all her assets, then send her to prison for a long time.
Should be able to do that cos we took back control didn't we?
@@danielcraig4974 no sorry boris johnson also lied
This is the UK . Only poor people have to pay for wrongdoing.
@@danielcraig4974 obsessed.
She’s been trained well… the dramatic pause before the tears was well versed. She’s an absolute disgrace.
Absolutely!!
And will walk out of court a free woman !!!
theres no justice..
Absolutely right.
Sentence her to Half an hour with the victims before she spends the rest of her life in custody because she can NEVER make up to the victims
@@TonyToning-ne7uqthere has GOT to be justice or the country will have no confidence in the judicial system of the country again
More than 900 people prosecuted and she still had confidence in the system. Pull the other one
And some committed suicide. She’s a MURDERER!
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Spot on
She did - confidence in it to make her rich with bonuses.
yes, gaslighting
Arrest Vennells tonight
Who gave her the job?
This isn't a trial, it's an inquiry hearing and there's parliamentary privilege that applies here as well.
Whats the charge?
Police escort for a criminal on the loose.....😡😡😡
@@chrisstevens2706 Perjury for starters, she admitted to lying to MPs in her select committee appearance.
Janet Skinner made a great point - a postmaster is personally responsible for every single penny at a post office, but apparently the CEO wasn't responsible for anything that happened in the organisation she ran.
Janet Skinner is a local Hull girl and when these poor Victims are innocently.treat the way they all were and some are near to us personally it makes your blood boil even more. Hope Vennells gets the punishment she has EARNED and there is a big box of tissues in her cell
Well said!
haha
Only responsible for collecting her pay and massive bonuses: going to high end parties etc. Loved playing rich beach!
You mean you loved the money and the bonuses. You didnt care to much about the rights of the Postmasters and Postmistresses.
That email showed her true colours, her real thoughts, the real person behind this appalling scandal
Crocodile tears, all of these upper managers should be sentenced to time in prison. They are all liars shame on them 😮
She's not crying because she's upset she's crying because she's been caught out..
Upper managers don't get sent to prison silly. That's only for working people.
The CEO class get to move their incompetence around to other high paying jobs.
@@Farzocalypse21This is *exactly* how it works. Its amazing, the lowest paid person in a company is held responsible for anything they do.... yet the massively paid ones never are.
What I want to say about this woman is unprintable.
Feminists would call it misogyny.
@StimParavane nonsense, you clearly have a little bee in your bonnet, eh? You can't speak for all feminists, don't be so arrogant.
@@StimParavanelook over there at what this other group would do! I think everyone would find agreement on their feelings towards her. Don't go chasing strawmen.
@@SkandiaAUS No woman can ever do anything wrong according to feminists.
My mother lost everything and my family nearly lost her. These people need prison time.
That's what i'm talking about: Storys like yours.
It's not just 900 people prosecuted in the postal system. Innocent people striped of their goods and sent to jail. It's not just the system was wrong.
The system was wrong, they knew it. They made people walking the plank perfectly knowing they are innocent. Maybe there is no section in the UK law for that, but there is a morale and ethical guilt. If Vennells walks free, how can anyone ever have confidence in the british law system again?
And again: For me, a foreigner, those prosecuted people are just numbers. For you, at least one of those numbers has a name attached to it. A human beeing, false convicted of crimes. By people who knew it was wrong. Heartbreaking and disgusting at the same time.
You could almost be forgiven for feeling sorry for her, but the emails written by her and shown to the inquiry in the afternoon betrayed her real mindset towards the SPMs. Disgusting specimen.
Why? Because she's a woman?
She has been coached to act like this, and told what to say: they all have "spin doctors" - vocal language experts. But good job the world can see through the veil of her deceptiveness.
Anyone who works with IT, especially a new or updated system and suddenly something is going wrong, resulting in indications that many postmasters and mistresses were found to be committing fraud, then the first thing to look at is that new system. The fact that senior managers and Vennells didn’t instantly realise this is a sign of gross incompetence, arrogance, or sheer vindictiveness.
Ever CEO in the world understands complex it systems are NEVER defect free and if they don't they are incompetent
an important caveat, though, is that the last twenty yeas of vennells' life appear to have been little more than an exercise in finding a way to avoid communicating to the plebs what had been realized & when
She was responsible for its testing and for proving it was fit for purpose. Clearly she didn't bother or if she did she didn't care that it wasn't. She should spend the rest of her days in a prison cell.
She and her team were told about the problems with Horizon early on, but they deliberately put the blame for the mess on the postmasters. They even went as far as deliberately making it well nigh impossible for any of them including Alan Bates to take them to court over it. They threatened, they bankrupted and ruined people's lives as well as those of their families, some were sent to prison - which raises serious questions about how that happened - and some either committed suicide or were sent to an early death. But she can't recall and she can shed a few tears - she's been extremely well coached by her PR team, I wonder how much they charge ?
Especially given that it would be unrealistic that so many postmasters suddenly decided to steal money. That should have raised questions.
Why isnt she facing charges??
Her political masters will protect her.
Because the inquiry isnt complete yet.
Cos it's a two tier society and she's part of the club and we ain't in it.
i suspect they're coming - although it seems to me she's still covering for others, so the charges will probably be to try to draw a line under it
This foolish, venal woman should face charges, but so should others. If she's made a scapegoat, it meansothers equally deserving of punishment will escape.
Sympathy for a woman that sent you to jail?
She sent innocent people to jail and suicide. Despicable
No. Prison for all PO board and investigators
This is BEYOND DISGUSTING
She shows no humility. Her tone in court is arrogance. She thinks shes holding court
And she was a high contender for Bishop of London!!!
@@user-bl8zw4ol1j makes sense. Politics. Skulduggery. Idolatory.
She knows she did wrong. But there is no way she can admit that in an inquiry. The police, the public, the government are watching.
She's decided to insist, no matter how ridiculous it looks, that she did nothing wrong.
We all know she did, including herself.
@@deang5622 damage limitation. Instead of 2 years she gets 6 months. She has given a warning to her former exec nest: rat on me and we all go down. Young is an interesting actor who's untraceable and mentioned in emails.
Those poor subpost masters. Horrible intimidation by a callous ruthless delusional, pragmatic bunch of soul less ghouls. Tainted blood - whoa! Whoa!
I feel nothing but cold contempt, no mercy on her.
Basically. "If you can't show me the proof I knew I deny it". She knew everything, and her comments about Jo Hamilton shows her totally lack of empathy. PV has lost every job she has had since she left POL, but she still has her life and her bonuses.
And she has another highly-paid job at the top.
You can see it in her face. She doesn't care. 😒🤷♀️
She will when the old bill come for her. Perverting the course of justice and lying under oath to a parliamentary select committee should get her around 6 years as a guest of His Majesty.
Absolutely shameless woman....
She should get her money taken from her and she should be put in jail !
And never let out Her friend the archbishop of Canterbury will visit her as he has plenty of spare time because the hierarchy of the C of E don't do much for their parishes
She should have all assets frozen, confiscated, sold off and any of the profits should go to those who were affected by this callous witch.
Note, the sudden brief slip in her sanctimonious acting at 3.00 when she turned and her head and facially expressed a moment of true indignation to criticism. Not the wilting flower she portrays herself as being!
Good morning from Fremantle,yes I noticed that as well.your right
The stoney faced response of the lawyers as she desperately tries turning the waterworks on say it all.
I wonder what bit of the Post Office she loved most?…….I wonder if it was the huge bonuses she took home?
Very rarely can I say "cry more" and not feel a shred of shame. It's nowhere near what her actions put others through. Cry more, Paula.
£400,000 just in performance bonus......
Cracking views in the interview from Lee and Janet. Its hard to listen to them knowing the pain theyve gone thru.........absolutely we need prosecutions.
Weve had this, the blood scandsl and Grenfell........we need to see justice
Vennels joins the shabby club of CEOs, MPs, PMs, News Editors, Police Chiefs, War Criminals and others who say "I can't remember"... & hope for the best.
Can I add "Peers" to that list.....thinking Michelle Mone who stole £200m of our money.......could do with an ITV drama about that whole fiasco
Not forgetting Astrazenica to be charged with genocide.
This was exposed because of the size of the post office and the TV drama. Who hasn't seen this type of behaviour/culture in smaller organisations?
the tears are only there because she's been caught out. if the post office lawyers had covered all this up we'd still have 1,000 of post office workers suffering and all these execs smiling at their fat pay cheques. she's crying because shes found out, not because she cares about the people she destroyed.
She had 12 years to show, how much she cared. And she did.
She didn't care, she and her team had and still have utter contempt and disdain for those victims.
You are absolutely right!!
@@franc9111 I'm sorry to say sarcasm is lost on you.
i'm sure she loved the post office...as a ceo i'm sure it was very nice to her
“I loved the post office…when it was just me and my mates sending innocent people to jail. Now it’s no fun at all. All you people asking me these nasty questions…about all the things I did…which I can’t remember at all”.
"but I remember spending my bonuses!"
PV feels no remorse or accountability and must be prosecuted otherwise what's the point in all this
absolute lies - How can the CEO not know - they call the shots
Paula Vennels knew everything and knew how damaging it was and didn't want to loose her job or bonuses. At best it's negligence while it's probably criminal intent. Even negligence the UK tax payer deserves a refund of her salary and bonuses.
didn't want to lose her status
@@beaulieuc8910 Its gone now big time
GREED!!!! Hold them to account.
I really respect the sub-postmasters being interviewed, they showed real maturity and honesty in their answers, also the interviewer asking questions and listening. I should watch channel 4 news more ! I hope justice is served after all this suffering of the subpostmasters and expense of the taxpayers. People must be help accountable, and that means doing hard time in a proper prison, not some open 'fluffy' place for executives.
Lock her up!
They could make a cracking spitting image character out of her
That does not solve problem it is so serious that a joke about it is insulting to the case
"I was trying to address a command and control culture where people could not speak up" ???????!!!!!!!!! She was the EMBODIMENT of this culture.
is there any good argument for her avoiding jail?
God will come to her defence! The Reverend Paula Venal COE
She’ll be a bad influence on the other inmates.
Rich look after the rich. She won't see prison because most of them would then be eligible for it.
@@user-oo1zh5vw7t true - although i think they've a bit of a problem incoming. within months - rather than years - artificial intelligence is likely to make it trivial to unravel the connections that the british aristocracy previously relied upon to thwart accountability
Her words never matched her actions, she tried to come across all caring and concerned, but opposite occurred every time, there were so many opportunities to do the right thing, but her and her team calmly destroyed 1000’s of lives. You sort of wonder how a bunch of people in an organisation become so depraved so easily. The psychologists would be busy with that bunch for years. Lets hope they do all get charged and sentenced as I am sure this culture is not limited to the Post Office, and new laws need to be put in place prevent individuals behaving so badly in corporations.
That man was brilliant... well done Sam
Posh rich people get an enquiry everyone else gets sent to court
And right now she'll be back in her multi million pound house thinking got away with that one, a few hurty words but a nice pot in the bank to fall back on
Maybe might get a knock on the door with someone with a outstretched hand with handcuffs
She’s afraid of criminal charges.
And take her out of that nice house,and put her in a cell that smells of disinfectant.one would think that's a possibility
Crocodile tears 😂😂😂
Just what I was gonna say! 😂
They have all been coached. Admit nothing, now and again say sorry, say l can’t remember or I’m not sure.
Some of them have turned quite nasty when being questioned. Their kind don't like that.
Narcissists and sociopaths are easily enraged when being made to face consequences for their actions.
Lock her up.
Too good for her.
Crocodile tears. She is only sorry that she is being called to account. As a CofE priest she seems to be ignorant of the 9th Commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbour"
Or the 11th, though shall not be found out.
Bless you two. I sincerely hope you get proper redress.
She seems to cry for herself, not for the thousands of people whose lives were destroyed, some of whom committed suicide.
100%. She’s upset about her experience, not theirs.
It looks and sounds like a poor imitation of the true emotions expressed by a wrongly accused sub-post master that has been on a few Channel 4 clips.
True or not, I can only think that Vennells is only out to save her own skin by any means necessary.
She needs to go prison what she did to those postmasters was criminal.
and what she did to the post office as a company was criminal too, falsifying statistics etc
Excellent discussion. Excellent video.
Evil evil woman.
Women are rarely held to account for anything...
I totally agree. M. Scott. Peck wrote a book called The People of the Lie, describing a psychology of evil, Vennells comes within that category.
Disgusting - and more so because there is no accountability.
Criminal charges will come after the inquiry.
Overpaid and under Qualified says it all about British Institutions and Civil Service not to mention the Government, arrests and jail time is what has to follow
"WHAT ARE WE DOING?" !! Indeed, Lee Castleton.
As all millionaires she thinks shes above the law and can not be held accountable!!!
If she dont goto jail no one will !!
Crocodile tears......
She should be in prison for the corruption she presided over.the live she and her entourage have destroyed.
She loved the Post Office for the money and abusive authority it provided.
Laws in the UK need to be brought in to protect the public against these criminals and fraudsters acting in the UK corporate world! Accountability laws are what is needed to make the wrongdoers do the right thing in the future!
Those people are the ones who write the laws so good luck with that.
2 lovely people. after everything that's happened. Their families should be proud.
This is still organised crime surely. And should be in Crown Court with a judge and jury after the public investigation. The people involved should be facing a strip of assets and a custodial sentence. Please reply anyone
High Court should deal with her !!!!!!.
I agree. Definitely with a judge and jury.
I would say fraud for starters, money taken from the post masters illegally as they did not owe it. Not returned either when it's clear monies were taken in error. The fact that several senior people ignored information that meant their actions were fraudulent and continued is just revolting. Several people including Paula should be serving a prison sentence. Slander, false accusation, false imprisonment of post masters, decisions/actions leading to bankruptcy based on false evidence...etc Accepting salaries and bonuses based on falsified information gathered & presented by CEO/Directors which made the bottom financial line look like they were managing the business competently when they were falsifying financial information. Sacking employees amounting to breaching employment law....etc
And today, dear kids, we’ve learned that Komodo dragons can cry.
she loved the money . that’s all
.......and the power to ruin other people's lives.
She presents well and it got her far in life, but scratch the surface and you see ZERO compassion and integrity. For a member of the clergy it’s even more shocking.
Not really.
This lady needs to answer in court why she put her position and job before the lives of people.
Complaining that she had worked for the last year without pay to produce her witness statement is a bit much when she earned over £2.0m working for the Post Office especially as if she had done her job there properly she wouldn't have had to write a witness statement at all! Incidentally I see she is no longer a vicar - did she resign under pressure to avoid being sacked?
I will continue to say Paula Vennells is a disgrace & should be in jail
Can C4 present a “rogues gallery” of executives implicated in this enquiry? So many involved that its quite baffling.
Horizen started in 1999 when John Miller signed the contract for Horizen based on John Mills '..robust..'when it was defective with known bugs. Again in 2003 Coyne report - bugs , not fit for purpose - when John Mills (acting CEO )did not read that report and it was buried for over 15 years. Mills signed a £180,000 for that sub post master!!
I dont believe he didn't read it, more like read it and pretended he hadn't.
Who recommender her for the job in the first place, they are equably responsible for her being place in that position?
Jail her
She had better go to jail. They should ALL be going to jail.
She loved the post office..so did postman pat but he didn't kill anyone.
Watching on with amazement from Australia, I’d be fascinated to know - is there one person in the UK who doesn’t hate this woman? I’m guessing she does have family and friends, but I think even they may be wavering.
Yeah loads of other execs at PO who she's protecting.
Until she goes to jail, they know they are safe.
She may as well have said “no comment” to most of the questions asked over the three days… then there were multiple times when she was obviously stringing it out by asking for questions to be repeated.
Pure evil.
This woman is an utterly disgrace. She should be behind bars. 😡
Was the money paid by the Sub Postmasters to the Post Office used to enhance the bonuses of the management & is that fraud ? This will have to be tested in a Court of Law ,
I think it's fraud taking money from people dishonestly and under false pretence...they didn't owe that money, therefore it should be illegal for anyone to have taken it from the postmasters
A LIAR with no integrity ....
Lock her up!
She can't think of a good enough lie, so pretends to start blubbering. Horrible creature deserves prison for what she has put those people through, but I doubt it will happen
P.V was just on another level. I rewatched the last 3 days of her evidence. Day 1: she got a good grilling I.e text message from Moya Greene about saying “you knew”. It looked like she was on the back foot, ( breaking down/tearing up a few times) Day 2 and 3, i noticed she just got better at handling the questions, and became a snake like politician, relaying on not remembering keys events, falling back on her best intentions, deep pauses when cornered, owned up to things immediately when it appeared damaging, but relied on her scheme set ups etc.: She grew in confidence and became at ease and despite core participant tough questioning,, she still got the better of them. I saw tiny cracks, but she’s got some otherworldly skills. .
FIRST THE POST OFFICE AND NEXT THE BBC, my point is that nobody has investigated the bbc who have for years been able to criminalize the citizens of the uk for its tv license fee.
if we damn the post office why not also the bbc when its the same culture?
we have an election soon would any party dare to bring an end to the bbc charter as it is due for renewal soon?
Great comment. Spot on 👌
No one is criminalised for not paying the telly licence.
Why is she not in prison? She’s a serial killer. LOCK HER UP NOW.
The police are waiting for the inquiry to conclude first so not to risk prejudicing its findings.
Word has it her and Angela van den Bogerd are going to be charged with perverting the course of justice and perjury.
Of course she loves the Post Office if I was on £500k pa. I would simply love them for life.
Should interview from prison
A perfect UK CEO of the 2010’s. She has actually done not much more than many in similarly sizeable companies and reportable to government. This in no way excuses the abhorrent and clearly criminal behaviour. Its a systemic failing of ethics at this level of corporate operations and governance. It is genuinely psychopathic at that level
The tears are for her own doing...... don't be disillusioned.... please don't be disillusioned
Other people go to prison for far less what she has done, flabbergasted! 😮
Where are the perjury charges?
Rich people getting away with it as usual..
This item proves that UNBRIDLED SHAMELESSNESS, SHEER ARROGANCE, UNFETTERED RUTHLESSNESS AND BLOODTHIRSTINESS - read: AVARICE - of ms Paula Vennellis just happen to be her main chracteristics. Thank you Channel Four for keeping your focus on this "crime againnst hardworking people!"
2:15 'It was working for the majority of people' wtaf! That is incompetence of the highest order. Jail her.
No commercially run organisation should have the right to bring criminal charges. It’s incredible that Vennels and her experienced exec team were not aware of the injustice they were propagating. For whatever reason, they chose to protect the system over their own team.
She has put up a much more intelligent performance throughout this enquiry than people realise. She might have appeared to be ignorant and dumb on many occasions but I sense that it is part of her deliberate strategy to distance herself from any potential criminal charges. Hence her evidence given often seems to be quite random and full of gaps concerning IT disclosure and sub postmasters. There is a pattern in her responses to the questions. Where they are related to IT bugs, her knowledge and awareness on convicted cases and legal advice surrounding sub postmasters, she deliberately made herself looking ignorant and blaming all the faults on other people. She knows that being incompetent is not a criminal act but by deliberately withholding evidence to interfere in the administration of justice (perverting the course of justice) and causing death (corporate manslaughter) are. So she did not admit once in the past 3 days that she might just know about the bug and the disclosure issue before 2013 - she is much cleverer and smarter than people think otherwise she could not be the CEO in the first place. Throughout the enquiry, she stubbornly stuck to her single line of defense which was 'she should have known but she did not know' (a famous phrase used by Albert Speer at Nuremberg trials in 1946 which got him off from the death penalty - he was known to be the one who got away! ) because her colleagues failed to keep her fully informed. You would also notice where questions are related to non Horizon and sub postmasters issues, she happily remembered everything and was able to give details down to individual names. I don't think given the amount of documentary and audio evidence, there is any doubt that she knew all along as MD and later CEO and she was doing everything and deploying every available resources to silence the noises from the sub postmasters. Regardless what she said, I think there is now sufficient evidence to charge her on perjury, perverting the course of justice, corporate manslaughter and obtaining money by deception as soon as the inquiry is over!
They all do that, suddenly they don't know anything about the processes of the organisation they're in charge of, they don't remember anything they did that incriminates themselves, instead of being detailed and articulate they practice being vague and confused, instead of accountability (if profits increase, its down to them) they were not actually responsible and didn't know of decisions made by those lower in rank, suddenly they don't understand the post office's entire IT system, they can't recall the evidence they came across that showed they were lying narcissists.....
Surely their collars will be felt? What are we waiting for? This is incredible.
Thats call out from the people attending the Inquiry , was like a stone breaking thru a glass window , that broke her . Thats how she will be remembered .
Such measured thoughtful genuine people in that last segment. I wish them and every other affected spm every remedy they may need to live a happy future life in dignity and peace.
I'm not going to comment on Paula vennalls, she speaks (at last) for herself and her actions and in actions.
The even bigger scandal than her disastrous management is her appointment as CEO in the first place. She lacked all competence to do the job. But her CofE background got her in. Jobs for the toffs.
As a retired system test and integration director, can i ask who tested and integrated this system? Anyone reviewed the test plans? Who verified the results, reviewed the trouble reports? Was there an independent test team or was this just designer tested?
Where are the project review reports? What test and system test gates did this software go through to go to market.
Paula Vennells' husband was a senior engineer with ABB. They developed their 800XA System, a superb real time system, for complex process control. Surely he explained "anomalies and exceptions" and their potential destructiveness to her in more detail.
@@BarMagnet well ABB have a very good track record. However, should he have put up his hand and be listened too? Probably not and after all advice over the dinner table is probably not the way to go.
This was we understand a professional project, who independently tested it?
@@johnmurray8428 What I find difficult to accept is her professed lack of knowledge of IT systems.
@@BarMagnet interesting point. I am looking at this from North America and the technology perspective. I guess she would claim that she had technical experts to run all this, she did not need to know every bit and byte.