Damn I lowkey wasn’t subscribed 😂 just did it, my brother and I always watched your zombies videos and we played revelations yesterday for the first time in awhile 🔥
@@senabecool7232 Grass Ground isn't a good typing: weak to Bug, Flying, Fire, and Ice (4x), but the region isn't as bad for grass types as other is probably why it's not on this list
@@alexy5611 Venusaur is actually the best starter to pick in pokemon firered and leafgreen game first come Brock which has geodude onix both are ground and rock type so you are 4x effective then comes misty water type staryu water type you may get problems with starmie being water - psychic but that is a problem for another day next gym type electric team voltorb pikachu and raichu neutral next grass type the team: victreebell tangela vilepume the only advantage you have is against tangela bring a grass and venusaur is grass-poison type and also all of here pokemon execpt tangela are water -poison type so you are pretty much neutral next comes koga which is poison type team: koffing muk koffing Weezing they are all poison type so you are neutral cause venusaur is a grass-poison type next is Sabrina team: Kadabra Mr. Mime venomoth alakazam well well after 5 gyms here comes a weakness that is 4x effective but you do get advantage over venomoth being poison-bug type cause you know venusaur is grass-poison type and poison resists big and poison so atleast you get one advantage against Sabrina Next come Blaine gym type:fire team: Growlithe ponyta Rapides arcanine you basically have no type advantage here all are fire types so you should probably get a water type cause when coming towards cinnabar Island you have surf so get a water type its not that heard Next gym type: ground team: rhyhorn dugtrio nidoking nidoqueen Rhyhorn yes poison is weak to ground but grass is resistant to ground so you will be neutral to all there attack also about nidoking and nidoqueen poison resists poison Elite four Lorelei type: ice team: dewgong cloyster slowbro jynx Lapras all pokemon here are either water -ice or water-psychic which provide no resistance to grass type effectiveness so make sure your venusaur has high attack and speed and you should be good Next Bruno type: fighting team: onix hitmonchan hitmonlee onix machamp you have 4x effective against two off his pokemon onix and onix other than that your neutral Next agaitha type: ghost team: Gengar golbat haunter arbok gengar all of her pokemon are poison types also and poison resists poison so you have a great advantage you may get trouble in to golbat being a poison-flying type but that is a problem for another day Next Lance type: dragon team: Gyarados dragonair dragonair aerodactyl dragonair you have there gyarados which has the typing of water -flying aerodactyl typing of rock flying and dragonite typing of dragon and flying you will deal neutral damage to gyarados and aerodactyl but dragonite is very hard Champion battle Your rival: type: mixed team: pidgeot alakazam Rhydon Exeggcutor Gyarados charizard you are weak to all of his team execpt rhydon you are 4x effective to that so for the rival fight your really need some another pokemon man The end
saddly changing stats would break the compatibility between other gen 1 games, however, an easy way to make Pikachu suck less is it should learn surf and fly as showed in Yellow intro, and I think that was the route they were going before they decided to make it event exclusive to sell Statium spin offs.
@@grammysworld5449 They could make Pikachu learn double kick earlier like let's go games did, so it would not be overpowered with surf earlier but also would not be useless against Brock
I feel like using the grass starter helps you to better understand the team dynamic of Pokémon. Since you can’t brute force your way through everything, you need to make sure you acquire a diverse array of Pokémon in order to cover your weaknesses. It helps in making you consider abilities and stats, and having the proper movepool. I always choose the grass starter in any Pokemon game and I don’t find myself stuck or struggling as long as I have a good team.
The main reason why I tend to pick a lot of the Grass Starters. The game becomes too easy with Fire and Water being two of the strongest typings in the game.
That makes sense for older games, but for the newer ones with the forced EXP share, you almost never have to use your starter if it isnt optimal and it will keep up in level regardless. At least in older games you had to use more of your team to keep them leveled, and go through the strategy and growing pains of a middling team.
Also makes you think how to optimize their shallow movepools. For example, Grovyle has a pretty weak early game movepool. So you have to take advantage of status moves to make it viable Ex. Absorb, Leer, Pound Fury Cutter or Bullet Seed, Pursuit, Leer, Fury Cutter Same with Servine Ex. Leech Seed, Wrap, Leaf tornado/mega Drain, Growth
@@raitaylor except for the Red and Blue version. Picking bulbasaur is easy mode early on, by the time you meet some real opposition you already have other pokemon to handle them.
Choosing Sceptile as a kid actually helped me better understand Pokémon, when I get to the rival fight on the underpass near cycling road I found it extremely difficult to 7 yr old me. After countless attempts and always loosing it forced me to find other Pokémon and realize that if I want to succeed I can't just brute force my starter through the game and that I need other Pokémon to back me up and cover my bases. After training about 2 more Pokémon to a similar level as my starter I was able to just barely overcome the immensely difficult combuskin fight and learned a valuable lesson along the way. Prepare for the unexpected
While I completely agree with all your points, I’ve found that the cycling road rival fight is easier with grovyle. Combusken was the one I struggled with most.
while I agree with you, in my 1st ever experience in a pokemon game (i was 14 yo), I basically forced my way through the entire game with only a blaziken (and rarely a kadabra as a second mon). The rest of my team were basically HM slaves.
I remember just using my Meganium as a toxic/poisonpowder killer as a kid. I didn't know how to play Pokemon and Crystal was my first game. Every time I thought, "I can't possibly kill that Pokemon," I'd send her out and poison all of them (This is also how I managed with Red lol). I didn't know that this was even a strategy up until today but one thing was for sure, my baby Meganium was a monster killer back then.
Meganium's moveset, stats, typing and region encourage that really well. Honestly, as much as I love Chikorita line, that's probably the only strategy it has to even compete. Well, at least in wins in cuteness
@@friedpilot4663 Yeah. I actually want to make my own Rom Hack, and once I've got everything down making Sceptile a physical attacker is on my list as well. Just need to get everything I need to make a Rom Hack and learn the basics. It's beyond me that they kept it as a special attacker. Even Grovyle - how can you look at that guy and go "Hm, that guy definitely looks like he prefers Energy Ball over Leaf Blade/Slash"
Objectively I know why Chikorita always ends up at the top of "most useless" or "weakest" starter pokemon (as the game is very stacked against it). But Meganium was an absolute beast for me in my Silver & SoulSilver playthroughs and Chikorita will always be my favorite Johto starter because of it. In general, grass starters tend to simply be the most challenging starters to use, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I tend to gravitate toward the grass starters in most generations and I think that having to think critically about my team building and type coverages because of its disadvantages helped me grow into a better player from the get go.
Pokemon games aren't that hard and your starter will always end up really strong. Thats just how it works. Meganium just has less potential and a already easy game will be even easier by picking another one
Pure Grass type is a very disadvantageous typing. The most useful starters are water. Sometimes i don't even have to have fire type since fighting and flying types can already be its alternative.
True. Grass is just so weirdly terrible considering it’s one of the three starter types. You’d think of all the types, at least those three would be sure to be balanced amongst eachother
@@xsellepoch9954 torterra and venasaur are really good venasaur is effective to many gyms with a good movest and turtwig gets curse early to set up defense and attack and torterra gets early earthquake and you can even it the swords dance tm which makes torterra extremely good
@@diyarecords9960 but the water alternatives to Venusaur and torterra are miles better, blastoise learns bite before misty to deal with her starmie and resists water, and bite also completely destroys Sabrina whilst the other starters have huge difficulty against her, not to mention blastoise is water type which means he can learn ice type moves, getting ice beam before the erika fight to sweep that and destroying the rivals venusaur every time, also having way more advantages than venusaur, also I don’t think I need to explain for empoleon, it has a steel typing, gets peck before the grass gym
It's pretty rare for the water starter to be the most useful actually. Typically you have access to superior water types early on in most games which isn't the case with the fire type which tends to have the best stat spreads and move pools of any of the starters.
@@dovahkiin5902 it's not common for the fire starter to be the most useful actually. Typically you have access to superior fighting and flying types in most games. But if fire starter has better stats in speed and attack/sp attack, then it might be better than water. However, movepools don't matter if you have pokemons of different typings, but surely all water starters can learn ice moves, with enough speed, can quickly kill grass, which makes it only difficult to electric in general.
Serperior is actually quite better in Black/White 2. Thanks to move tutors it can learn coverage moves like Iron Tail, Aqua Tail, Dragon Tail and Dragon Pulse and Coil helps negating the lower accuracy of the moves while also raising attack and defense too. But in Black/White 1 move tutors are pretty much nonexistent. And Serperiors level-up moveset is so unbelievably bad I actually had to reset midway through the game because using it got really frustrating.
Okay, but with Treeko.... you can get Bullet Seed right outside the forest right before Roxanne.... so you don't have to use Absorb, you can use something that hits pretty hard between 2-5 times.
That would be good in modern games, but in GBA versions of Gen 3 Bullet seed has the power of 10 per seed, so the damage is still quite bad even if it's better than Absorb.
We must remember that this is Gen 3 Bullet Seed, which deals only 10 damage per hit. That's equal to Absorb at worst, and barely edges out Ember or Water Gun at BEST, which won't be happening very often.
I actually did a Grass type run in Ruby a while back. I ran my Sceptile with Earthquake for Poison and Fire coverage, Aerial Ace for Bug type coverage, Leaf Blade, and Dragon Claw. Ice and Flying stood no chance against my Cradily. My Cradily has Toxic, Rock Tomb, Earthquake, Giga Drain
Some months ago i said to me u never played trough gen 2 with chikorita so i started a playtrough but after like 3 badges i came to the conclusion the struggle is just not worth it lol
Sad part is, a lot of these are my favourites to pick (I just love grass type starters in general except for Chespin) Treecko line especially, Grovyle is my…3rd? favourite pokemon (solely because explorers of sky) I picked Chikorita in my first run of Soulsilver (second ever pokemon game after Diamond) And I picked Snivy in my first run of Black.
I still don't understand what's so wrong about the chespin line, their design is so cool and creative, they aren't as powerful as cringe greninja or furry delphox, but that doesn't make them bad either. chespin is one of my favorite starters along with cyndaquil and popplio
@@Pao-vo8mf I mean everyone has their own opinions. Some people even like the elemental monkeys when they’re some of the most hated Pokémon. Just the Chespin line is by far my least favourite grass starter, and the only time I didn’t pick Grass for my first run. I just don’t like how it goes from Chespin (which I like the design of) to Quilladant (who is the generic ugly middle stage evolution IMO) and then from green and brown to white and red outlines for Chesnaught. I think it could’ve been good but I personally, and many others, just don’t like the design. Also what’s with the Greninja and Delphox nicknames? Well Delphox may attract furries but still
@@Oxijinn_ I think the problem lies at the feet of Quiladin exclusively. Chespin and Chesnaught are good designs in their own right, but the middle form fails at the two main things a mid stage evolution is supposed to do. It isn't an appealing design itself to most people, and it fails at bridging the gap between the lovable Chespin and the bulky brawler Chesnaught. If you fix Quiladin, the line gets more coherent and has logical progression.
unless its gen 1, where the bulbasaur line can carry you pretty easy against all but 1(maybe 2) gym leaders, and will almost negate 2 of the elite 4 members.
@@bulborb8756 the irony is, in FR/LG speedrun, Blastoise is the go to pokemon for a run. but the one that COULD dethrone him would be none other than Charizard himself, its just that, its all theoretical at the moment, as noone was able to pull it off yet.
I have always loved grass as my starters, going all the way to choosing Bulbasaur as my first. Yes, grass has more weaknesses, but they tend to be tanky and make the game more interesting. You have to build a team to cover your starter. Plus grass moves are so much fun. Leech seed, synthesis, giga drain, sunny day/solar beam...and so on.
@@deocharismostrales4142 In Radical Red Meganium got the Triage ability which gives +1 priority to every move with an healing effect on top of the additional fairy typing. It's not amazing but still a pretty solid mon
@@gofglida4155 nope not always. In gen 6 and 7 Serperior and Mega sceptile where Good in competitive. Amonguss and Therrothorn are relevant in competitive since gen 5
@@dannytent8776 I don’t think the grass type is the reasoning to why ferrothorn is good in competitive. There is a secondary typing it has that makes it significantly better.
I grew up with Gen 5 with Snivy and all did to beat the gym leaders, even though it wasn’t a great time, I just grind and leveled them up until they were about ten levels ahead of the gym leaders Pokémon. And by the time I beat the game, I am literally at LV. 80 or 90.
Chespin actually has a pretty easy time against the first gym of Kalos, it learns rollout at level 8, which you could OHKO the vivillon with if you build it up against surskit first. And you can teach Quilladin the TM for rock smash before the second gym, which hits both of Grant's pokemon for super effective damage, 4x on the amaura. (also ice doesn't resist anything except itself, so grass is still super effective against a rock/ice type)
Thank you for bringing this up. Also, aside from Hawlucha and Jumpluff, the Chespin line has good enough defense to do its part in those gyms. I played Y with Chespin and to even think that its options are more limited than gen 3 Treecko is laughable. It pulls its weight throughout the entire game.
It's kind of hilarious - Fennekin actually performs the worst against that gym due to Surskit's Water Sport and Bubble, while Chespin just sweeps with Rollout. Totally backwards from what is expected given typing.
I'd say the mega saved Sceptile for the most part. For one thing, you have less of a disadvantage against Winnona's Altaria because it gains dragon as a STAB type, and for the same reason it's useful against Drake's Pokémon too. On top of that, you get a physical attack buff!
@@toni929ann you are not. The only Megas you battle in the main story of ORAS are your two rivals (May/Brandon and Wally), the evil team leader and Steven. In the postgame, you have the evil team lieutenants, Zinnia and Elite 4 rematches.
There's more to Pokémon than just type advantages. Yeah, they are important, but what makes Grass types so great and fun to train is the life steal moves they get. They're usually capable of actually taking big hits because grass types are the vampires of Pokémon. Snivy is my favorite starter ever, and it really is a great grass type. I never have any trouble implementing it on my gen 5 teams. What I will say is that Chikorita barely gets life steal moves. This video did touch on weaknesses these starters have beyond type advantage/disadvantage, but I think it could have stood to go more in depth with movepools and such.
The reasons why playing PMD Explorers for the first time, as a Treecko, was so goated cuz I could just entirely ignore the mechanic of hunger depleting health when it hits 0, as i could continuously restore my health by using up to 3 different life steal moves, and in that game type resistance isn't as strong as main series, so you always do decent damage, and overkill anything late-game without even having to evolve. I know it's a different type of game altogether but it's what got me to always go for the grass type in subsequent pokemon games i'd play ( I chose all 4/4 starters cited in the video )
Looking forward to playing with Chikorita in Blaze Black 2 Redux. The mod authors give it Serene Grace and the Fairy type. SG gives its Moonblast a 60% chance to lower sp. atk, and it learns dual screens at lvl 17.
Chikorita is one of my favs, but i have to admit: if you dont want your soul to be crushed in the main games GSC you better take Cynda. Fire types are so rare and there are better water types than the starters. With HgSs chikorita is fine actually ❤❤
hgss chikorita does significantly worse because the first two gyms now have better stab options to destroy it and rival 2 still completely walls it. (quilava, gastly and zubat)
Nah it still sucks. It’s such a well done design but it sucks hard. Beedrill at least got a powerful mega. Meganium deserves to be one of the best grass types ever
@@RainmakerXBooty if the fairy type would have existed in Gen 2 (or atleast 4) and it would have gotten it, as well as a much better movepool, it could have been much better starter. It still wouldn't be great since Jotho is still a nightmare for Grass types, but it atleast could do something against some fighting, dark and dragon trainers.
Then there’s me who only uses Treecko in gen 3, Snivy in gen 5, Chespin in gen 6 and last but not least, one of my favourite starter Pokémon in Chikorita, I found it quite fun doing a solo run of gen 2 with the Chikorita line.
The worst thing js most grass type starters dont have a 2nd type.I prefer chesnaught over sceptile for the sole reason of its double typing.Other than that sceptile(of course with a 2nd typing would be pretty good)its atk and special atk should be reversed.Serperior is pretty good on its own i dont find it that bad.Chikorita sadly is too bad probably a grass/fairy typing would change that but right now is an awful starter even though i love its design
having a dragon as the second type tho would be too OP since the basic fire-water-grass starter should always be an advantage and disadvantage of another type. Sceptile with dragon type will be resistant to fire, so it cannot be. That's why the mega evolution is good for Sceptile but still it's movepool is poor
what makes that more ironic is that bulbasaur from the start was a duo type. and it being poison, really gives it a massive advantage against lance in gen 1.
Mega sceptile has good movepool coverage Dragon pulse / leafstorm / focus blast / earthquake is enough to wreck the OU metagame during Oras , especially with latias latios and mega slowbro running around Leafstorm modest sceptile also ohko landorus t btw
Another factor I think should be included for how “good” or “bad” a starter can be is that one would also have to look at just what kind of Pokémon of the same type can you get. Like if your starter is by far the best water/fire/grass type in early/mid/late game available, I think that merits points in a Pokémons overall viability.
In fairness, it wouldn't change the list that much. In RSE, you have Breloom. In Gen V you have Whimsicott and Lilligant as well as Roserade in B2W2. In XY you have Venusaur. Only starter that would *maybe* benefit from this rule is Chikorita since Grass types in general are pretty mid in Gen II.
@@crazycoolkids00 Especially in Diamond and Pearl, where the only other fire types are Ponyta, Rapidash, and Flareon until you get the national dex. Platinum at least mitigates this somewhat by adding a few more fire types to the regional dex.
Gen 3 has a similar problem. Other than Blaziken there are only 4 other options, of which none are particularly good. Camerupt and Torkoal aren’t terrible, but Magcargo and Ninetales are pretty bad.
That wouldn't change anything about this list, everyone but chikorita has better options in their regions in The early game, that would only Ensure that not a single fire type starter would be able to get in a top like this
It was a bit of a grind at times, but I had a very handy moveset with a Serperior in Gen 5 that worked well in the Elite Four. Held Item: Big Root Leech Seed Coil Mega/Giga Drain Leaf Blade Begin with a leech seed, use and abuse coil, hyper potion and then destroy. It wasn't pretty, but there's definitely potential.
I'm a sucker for most grass type starters. It's mostly because they're under dogs and i like a bit of a challenge. Plus some of their designs are appealing to me.
Kind of wish you talked more about Serperior in BW2 and not just BW1 because it swapped a neutral gym 2 matchup with a bad gym 2 matchup in order to get a good gym 8 matchup instead of a bad gym 8 matchup. However... That's far worse in practice than on paper. The advantages of one pokemon matter much more in the early game, especially in non SS games without the wild area, because your access to pokemon is much more limited. The tradeoff is absolutely awful when you try to execute it
Please don't stop thus content. Been a pokemon fan since young, and been a fan of your BO2 top 5s and top 10s so this is like perfect. And if you start making shorts and stuff, you're gonna make it big in the pokemon fan base
Fun story: A Sceptile helped me win a battle on Pokemon Showdown, using a more defensive moveset. Substitute, Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Earthquake. I hid behind Subbies and sapped opponents' HP. It must've been annoying to battle!
@@whatdatechnodogedoin It was randomly generated on Showdown. I dig it though, and it didn't get killed! It seemed to prioritise avoiding hits instead of eating hits with bulk, which Sceptile doesn't have.
sub-seed is good in nearly all competitive battles. The problem is; You don't get many options for an even 6 on 6 match in game to use competitive non hyper offensive strats. Why sub seed when you can 2h KO every mon in game when using SE moves or if you were actually competitive, pull out your sword dancer or what not and one shot their entire team? Name a time you needed to set up screens or rocks or even u-turn in game?
for Treecko, you're supposed to pick up Bullet Seed TM before Rustboro, and get Miracle Seed after beating Roxanne and returning to the forest with Cut and make Treecko hold it... makes a tiny difference but two grass type attacks is better than one lol
@@MarvinPowell1 lol no one said it's a strong move 🤣🤣🤣 Absorb is the only grass type move Treecko knows for quite a while, and it's already a weak move, by teaching it Bullet Seed it'll have a second grass type move before Roxanne, and it will still usually deal more damage than Absorb... again, having 2 grass type moves is better than one, especially this early in the game 🤷♂️
Pat you should check out Pokémon rejuvenation/reborn. It’s a fan game that you can choose any of the 24 starters (with hidden abilities) and has a really interesting/tough play through.
I did use Serperior in B&W and really enjoyed it. Yes I couldnt use him as much as empoleon in gen 4 but he was still an important main stay of my team
Fun fact for you: as a kid I thought electric didn’t effect rock types because I never knew that Geodude and onix were part ground. Fast forward to Gen 3 and it would always blow my mind that electric moves hit the Aron line since he’s rock and assumed it was a bug. Fast forward more and I didn’t learn that electric moves could hit rock types until maybe a year ago, I think a little less though…I’m 29 😭
they do... w h a t ??.. I thought that aron can be hit with electric type moves cause he is *only* a steel type... 😳 And I believed too in rock type immunity to electricity.. Well... It was TODAY when i learned this information too, thanks 😭
@@cryptid8872 it BLEW my mind. Someone shocked something with like thunder shock…maybe nose pass? I don’t exactly remember but I was so confused!! And after watching all these “can you beat” challenges I finally realized it. It’s insane, once I got a tad bit older than 5 and knew what I was doing I never tried to zap a rock type after Brock!
Recently I played Heartgold and decided to start Chikorita to try something new because I played Cyndaquil and Totodile back in Gold and Crystal. Bugsy made me want to restart the whole game. I've never before had a run that made me feel this way in Pokemon ever.
And in addition, the only bug move Viola's team knows is Infestation, the bug equivalent to Constrict. I does barley anything to Chespin despite it being super effective. So, if anything, Chespin has the advantage here.
It's pretty much just grass type that's bad- the starters I usually pick. No wonder some of my runs have been so frustrating- it's like playing a souls game.
I almost never have a grass type on my team for a few reasons. 1- water Pokemon learn ice moves, 2- water and grass both beat ground and rock so just use a water Pokemon, 3- Gengar is my favorite so I just use Giga Drain on it and use Gengar as my "grass Pokemon"
Question: does this list use or skip TMs? Because Treeko can get TM Bullet Seed right after the forest in RSE, and that would probably help over Absorb.
The Chikorita line is actually a lot better than people give it credit for. No, you don't get a lot of favorable attacking matchups, but the Chikorita line aren't designed for that; they're bulky Pokémon designed to take hits and heal the damage away with synthesis, leftovers, (and if you breed it, leech seed!) That said, Meganium shines much more in the fan games like Pokémon Faria's final battles (use walk through walls if you need to deal with the glitches locking you out.) Leech Seed + Toxic + bulk helps conserve items vs Lv100 NPCs. Sceptile is interesting, since if you're playing RSE, you'll likely have used Sceptile against numerous Geodude and its evolutions, so you should have a decent investment of defense EVs, making Sceptile decently bulky. Also it's pretty fast, so it can often quickly KO Glacia's water types before they can counter-attack. Unless you EV-train Sceptile, I wouldn't use it on Tate and Liza because of Solrock's flamethrower. HOWEVER, where Sceptile really shines is against Team Aqua, with all of their water types, Leaf Blade tears them to pieces (just watch out for Golbat and the like) I've never played Chespin or Snivy.
This video's title should be "how Grass-type Pokémon get screwed in gym and Elite Four match-ups", because that's what it's really all about. Apart from Treecko, the video didn't try to analyze whether these starters were actually the weakest out of the ones in each game, it just lists how each and every match-up at Pokémon Gyms and the Elite Four is stacked against them.
I know that most pokemon games are so easy that attack is the only stat that matters, but I still think you're selling the defensive starters short. In order to get a sweeper out reliably, you need a good matchup to switch into. Some of the best ways to do that is to either have a good tank or have a good pivot, and grass types can be good at the latter. Even if they don't have the stats to back up those roles, they can always have the moves. I used a Meganium in a HG playthrough and it never knocked out anything, but it didn't need to because it had Refect and Light Screen. It's job was to make switching in easier for the rest of the team, and it was pretty good at that.
Chespin actually does the best against Viola though and is the Choice starter for Speedruns of Pokemon X/Y. Originaly it was used against viola for rollout but eventually was replaced with the trade farfetch'd which gets swapped out latter for Hawlucha and Lucario.
I recently played through Yellow and didn’t even need to use my team hardly against the E4 because the Pikachu dominated lol. Use Thunder Wave, then 6 Double Teams. Then use Thunderbolt or Body Slam lol
Whenever there’s a list like this of the weakest starters, they’re pretty much always dominated by the grass types, which really highlights just how abysmal the type actually is. Of the 5 Pokemon on this list, 4 of them were grass types and the only one that wasn’t was only on the list because it literally couldn’t evolve. I always say this, but it is absolutely crazy just how poorly balanced grass was, especially compared to the other two starter types. Edit: also, by the way, just wanted to point out that NONE of the starters on the strongest starters list that’s also on this channel were grass types.
@@smithplayspokemonOoh, got a response from the channel!! Okay serious question, if Pikachu could evolve in Yellow version, would Raichu still have been on the list, and if not, what would have taken its place? Like, could it really have been *another* grass starter?
i keep saying this but, what really makes this sadder is the fact venusaur is one of the best starters in gen 1. it has the most easy time of them with the gym leaders, with only facing some dificulty with blaine and maybe sabrina. completely negates bruno and will turn half of lance's team into useless target practices. the only reason blastoise ends up superior is due to its movelist and resistances. and even then venusaur carries itself well enough to not be that far behind.
In all honesty, starter pokemon aren’t that great statistically. But there’s a charm to them, in that you’re usually offered one choice from three in the beginning of the game and you can’t cleanly obtain the other two without trading
I always over-level my Pikachu in yellow so I've never noticed not being that strong cuz its just a gigachad at all times from all the battles I put it through
Im just goin to go ahead and say it...and us real Pokemon trainers know this one statement:....No Pokemon is bad or good...the whole point is to train what u want and develop a team u can be proud of.
I was like 5 years old when I tried to fight Bugsy's Scyther in Pokemon Crystal with my Bayleef. Scythers Fury Cutter traumatized me forever. I still remember succeeding after countless tries tho lol
Still can't believe that he forgot Chespin learns Rollout naturally, so Vivilion still isn't that much of a threat. Also, Ice doesn't resist Grass, so Aurorus is still weak to Grass attacks, not to mention still weak to Rollout as well. It's funny how this one Rock move can really help for the early game. Helps against Viola, Grant's Amaura, Ramos' Jumpluff, the Emolga's in Lumiose Gym, and Wulfric's Ice types. Also, again, if you're gonna take the bonus typing from fighting into account, then Wulfric's Ice Gym should be fine. None of his team resist Fighting. As for Valerie and Olympia, yeah that's gonna rip Chesnaught up bad. As for the Elite 4, yeah Chesnaught doesn't get too far there either. Drasna and Malva crap all over Chesnaught, Wikstrom doesn't make Fighting moves any good, and Siebold, as you stated, has Starmie and Gyarados, so Chesnaught doesn't get much from there. And finally, the Champion does have an advantage with Gourgeist, Hawlucha, Goodra and Gardevoir. However, the Fossil Pokemon are still susceptible to Fighting attacks. Hammer Arm on one and Wood Hammer on the other and you're pretty much golden. So, I think Chespin outclasses Pika and Serperior, and I love both of those two, but Chespin clenches it big time over both of those.
Serperior>sceptile Sceptile is bad in every game Serperior is bad in BW but in competitive pokemon you know it got contrary-leafstorm, that makes it broken.
Yes this video is 10 months old but I’ve come to defend Meganium after just using it in a heartgold play through. Getting a brave nature gives your early game razor leafs the oomph to ohko through your early game and your tackles some extra damage. We take minus speed because late game petal dance and eventually giga drain aren’t gonna want that minus special nature from something like adamant. Ofc you’re not gonna use meganium in any disadvantageous match ups but when it’s strong it’s strong. With dual screens you can eat super effective attacks and even ko frail fires with earthquake. It’s a late game beast in a game with one of the more drawn out late games. I personally loved it.
LMFAO Poor Chespin xD. Sees my favorite starter of Gen 2: "Oh my god..." I think Chespins is funnier though because he actually appears to almost get worse due to the /Fighting xD, it's the main reason he does terribly on 6 and 7.
I always picked Meganium in Gen 2. Simply coz there were a tonne of water types & I planned on grabbing Houndoom. Sunny Day Synthesis Solar Beam & Body Slam made it quite useful
Another big factor is how early you can fill the slot the starter takes up. Oddish, Paras, Bellsprout, Shroomish, and Budew can all be obtained super early in the first 4 gens. Grass is just too easy to fill to waste your starter on, unfortunately.
Odd 🤔 I never had a problem with chespin in my playthrough do to move coverage earthquake,stone edge, hammer arm, wood hammer. He wasnt a tortera sure 🤔 but I could give him moves to make him feel equivalent.
lately I do playthroughs with starting area pokemon as my "starter" rather than one of the 3 you can choose Soul Silver with a ledyba starter is pretty challenging and fun
what other 2? water is almost always the easier choice of the 3. with their access to ice moves, really strong water moves, and even some op ground moves. also in gen 1, its almost a tie between venusaur and blastoise which is the best starter, with blastoise winning due to access to pretty useful stuff earlier(against the gyms it would be weak against) like bite and mega punch vs misty, or dig against surge. venusaur only really starts to face some problems with blaine, maybe sabrina. both are miles ahead of charizard its not even funny.
Sooo many starters get done dirty but pretty much all of them are grass types (so many weaknesses) Pretty much the only grass type to do *good* in a playthough - not just decent but actually good - is bulbasaur, who actually gets off with a very strong start with the first few gyms and even the final gym
subscribe or scarlet & violet get fire fighting starter
Damn I lowkey wasn’t subscribed 😂 just did it, my brother and I always watched your zombies videos and we played revelations yesterday for the first time in awhile 🔥
i now have no option.
You should mention that the cat will stand up. That'll get more people to subscribe
Not about the disrespect sepctile I demolished Wallace's team with time he put in mad work
Subscribe or sprigatito stands up on two legs
Props to Venusaur and Torterra for managing to be both good and grass type at the same time
I think its because if Venusaur and Torterra's extra typing (Ground and Poison) that bolster it
@@senabecool7232 Yeah, kind of a shame honestly that all pure grass starters have been bad when this type clearly has the potential to be good
@@senabecool7232 Grass Ground isn't a good typing: weak to Bug, Flying, Fire, and Ice (4x), but the region isn't as bad for grass types as other is probably why it's not on this list
Rillaboom and Decidueye are great grass starters tbh
@@odajimenez2600 Decidueye is both pretty slow and frail physically with not that great HP and a pretty bad defensive typing, making it hard to use
RIP to the grass starters
Grass haters😞
Grass type needs a buff..
yeah pokemon types are so unbalanced
Torterra, Decidueye, and Venusaur being the only grass starters that are actually good:
@@alexy5611 Venusaur is actually the best starter to pick in pokemon firered and leafgreen game first come Brock which has geodude onix both are ground and rock type so you are 4x effective then comes misty water type staryu water type you may get problems with starmie being water - psychic but that is a problem for another day next gym type electric team voltorb pikachu and raichu neutral next grass type the team: victreebell tangela vilepume the only advantage you have is against tangela bring a grass and venusaur is grass-poison type and also all of here pokemon execpt tangela are water -poison type so you are pretty much neutral next comes koga which is poison type team: koffing muk koffing Weezing they are all poison type so you are neutral cause venusaur is a grass-poison type next is Sabrina team: Kadabra Mr. Mime venomoth alakazam well well after 5 gyms here comes a weakness that is 4x effective but you do get advantage over venomoth being poison-bug type cause you know venusaur is grass-poison type and poison resists big and poison so atleast you get one advantage against Sabrina
Next come Blaine gym type:fire team: Growlithe ponyta Rapides arcanine you basically have no type advantage here all are fire types so you should probably get a water type cause when coming towards cinnabar Island you have surf so get a water type its not that heard
Next gym type: ground team: rhyhorn dugtrio nidoking nidoqueen Rhyhorn yes poison is weak to ground but grass is resistant to ground so you will be neutral to all there attack also about nidoking and nidoqueen poison resists poison
Elite four
Lorelei type: ice team: dewgong cloyster slowbro jynx Lapras all pokemon here are either water -ice or water-psychic which provide no resistance to grass type effectiveness so make sure your venusaur has high attack and speed and you should be good
Next Bruno type: fighting team: onix hitmonchan hitmonlee onix machamp you have 4x effective against two off his pokemon onix and onix other than that your neutral
Next agaitha type: ghost team: Gengar golbat haunter arbok gengar all of her pokemon are poison types also and poison resists poison so you have a great advantage you may get trouble in to golbat being a poison-flying type but that is a problem for another day
Next Lance type: dragon team: Gyarados dragonair dragonair aerodactyl dragonair you have there gyarados which has the typing of water -flying aerodactyl typing of rock flying and dragonite typing of dragon and flying you will deal neutral damage to gyarados and aerodactyl but dragonite is very hard
Champion battle
Your rival: type: mixed team: pidgeot alakazam Rhydon Exeggcutor Gyarados charizard you are weak to all of his team execpt rhydon you are 4x effective to that so for the rival fight your really need some another pokemon man
The end
I always felt like Yellow's Pikachu should have had an event in-game that gave him his evolved stats.
Or the very least, be able to learn Surf since they literally have a mini game where pikachu is on a surfboard
@@daniaaal Yeah, if he got Surf early in, he goes from weak to OP for a few fights
saddly changing stats would break the compatibility between other gen 1 games, however, an easy way to make Pikachu suck less is it should learn surf and fly as showed in Yellow intro, and I think that was the route they were going before they decided to make it event exclusive to sell Statium spin offs.
@@essentures yea man Surfing Pikachu was a MONSTER.. Only issues I had were against Brock (before surf), Sabrina (too frail) and the Champion battle
@@grammysworld5449 They could make Pikachu learn double kick earlier like let's go games did, so it would not be overpowered with surf earlier but also would not be useless against Brock
I feel like using the grass starter helps you to better understand the team dynamic of Pokémon. Since you can’t brute force your way through everything, you need to make sure you acquire a diverse array of Pokémon in order to cover your weaknesses. It helps in making you consider abilities and stats, and having the proper movepool. I always choose the grass starter in any Pokemon game and I don’t find myself stuck or struggling as long as I have a good team.
The main reason why I tend to pick a lot of the Grass Starters. The game becomes too easy with Fire and Water being two of the strongest typings in the game.
That makes sense for older games, but for the newer ones with the forced EXP share, you almost never have to use your starter if it isnt optimal and it will keep up in level regardless. At least in older games you had to use more of your team to keep them leveled, and go through the strategy and growing pains of a middling team.
Also makes you think how to optimize their shallow movepools.
For example, Grovyle has a pretty weak early game movepool. So you have to take advantage of status moves to make it viable
Ex. Absorb, Leer, Pound Fury Cutter or Bullet Seed, Pursuit, Leer, Fury Cutter
Same with Servine
Ex. Leech Seed, Wrap, Leaf tornado/mega Drain, Growth
@@raitaylor except for the Red and Blue version. Picking bulbasaur is easy mode early on, by the time you meet some real opposition you already have other pokemon to handle them.
U won't struggle in the game but ur starter won't carry ur team that's the difference
Choosing Sceptile as a kid actually helped me better understand Pokémon, when I get to the rival fight on the underpass near cycling road I found it extremely difficult to 7 yr old me. After countless attempts and always loosing it forced me to find other Pokémon and realize that if I want to succeed I can't just brute force my starter through the game and that I need other Pokémon to back me up and cover my bases. After training about 2 more Pokémon to a similar level as my starter I was able to just barely overcome the immensely difficult combuskin fight and learned a valuable lesson along the way. Prepare for the unexpected
While I completely agree with all your points, I’ve found that the cycling road rival fight is easier with grovyle. Combusken was the one I struggled with most.
while I agree with you, in my 1st ever experience in a pokemon game (i was 14 yo), I basically forced my way through the entire game with only a blaziken (and rarely a kadabra as a second mon). The rest of my team were basically HM slaves.
My lvl 93 Feraligatr from 7 yo me would disagree
From now on I always wait to evolve treeko until he gets screech and Mega Drain.
I remember just using my Meganium as a toxic/poisonpowder killer as a kid. I didn't know how to play Pokemon and Crystal was my first game. Every time I thought, "I can't possibly kill that Pokemon," I'd send her out and poison all of them (This is also how I managed with Red lol). I didn't know that this was even a strategy up until today but one thing was for sure, my baby Meganium was a monster killer back then.
same here. I loved my Meganium
That's how I used my Jumpluff, except with Leech Seed instead of Poison Powder (or in addition to Poison Powder).
Meganium's moveset, stats, typing and region encourage that really well. Honestly, as much as I love Chikorita line, that's probably the only strategy it has to even compete.
Well, at least in wins in cuteness
My brother played heartgold and actually soloed most of Johto with his meganium by over leveling it. Now he's stuck on Lance.
@@pacfan2933 I mean, duh. You can solo with just about any Pokemon if you just overlevel it enough.
If the physical/special split happened in Gen 3, I feel like Sceptile would have had its physical and special attack swapped
They would have all been physical based going by design lol
Oh definitely. It's still so odd that its signature move, Leaf Blade, went physical (which makes sense) while they kept it as a special attacker.
@@mrcx6142 it would have been so much better off with physical. so much coverage gone to waste
@@friedpilot4663 Yeah. I actually want to make my own Rom Hack, and once I've got everything down making Sceptile a physical attacker is on my list as well. Just need to get everything I need to make a Rom Hack and learn the basics.
It's beyond me that they kept it as a special attacker. Even Grovyle - how can you look at that guy and go "Hm, that guy definitely looks like he prefers Energy Ball over Leaf Blade/Slash"
@@mrcx6142 It was because Grass was a Special type before the split. It's the same reason why all gen 3 ghosts are physical attackers.
Objectively I know why Chikorita always ends up at the top of "most useless" or "weakest" starter pokemon (as the game is very stacked against it). But Meganium was an absolute beast for me in my Silver & SoulSilver playthroughs and Chikorita will always be my favorite Johto starter because of it. In general, grass starters tend to simply be the most challenging starters to use, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I tend to gravitate toward the grass starters in most generations and I think that having to think critically about my team building and type coverages because of its disadvantages helped me grow into a better player from the get go.
Pokemon games aren't that hard and your starter will always end up really strong. Thats just how it works. Meganium just has less potential and a already easy game will be even easier by picking another one
@@davidc. the interesting thing is that I just read a comment saying the same thing defending Chikorita
I usually pick grass but it's for a much more simpler reason, the grass starter usually looks the coolest
Pure Grass type is a very disadvantageous typing. The most useful starters are water. Sometimes i don't even have to have fire type since fighting and flying types can already be its alternative.
True. Grass is just so weirdly terrible considering it’s one of the three starter types. You’d think of all the types, at least those three would be sure to be balanced amongst eachother
@@xsellepoch9954 torterra and venasaur are really good venasaur is effective to many gyms with a good movest and turtwig gets curse early to set up defense and attack and torterra gets early earthquake and you can even it the swords dance tm which makes torterra extremely good
@@diyarecords9960 but the water alternatives to Venusaur and torterra are miles better, blastoise learns bite before misty to deal with her starmie and resists water, and bite also completely destroys Sabrina whilst the other starters have huge difficulty against her, not to mention blastoise is water type which means he can learn ice type moves, getting ice beam before the erika fight to sweep that and destroying the rivals venusaur every time, also having way more advantages than venusaur, also I don’t think I need to explain for empoleon, it has a steel typing, gets peck before the grass gym
It's pretty rare for the water starter to be the most useful actually. Typically you have access to superior water types early on in most games which isn't the case with the fire type which tends to have the best stat spreads and move pools of any of the starters.
@@dovahkiin5902 it's not common for the fire starter to be the most useful actually. Typically you have access to superior fighting and flying types in most games. But if fire starter has better stats in speed and attack/sp attack, then it might be better than water. However, movepools don't matter if you have pokemons of different typings, but surely all water starters can learn ice moves, with enough speed, can quickly kill grass, which makes it only difficult to electric in general.
Serperior is actually quite better in Black/White 2. Thanks to move tutors it can learn coverage moves like Iron Tail, Aqua Tail, Dragon Tail and Dragon Pulse and Coil helps negating the lower accuracy of the moves while also raising attack and defense too.
But in Black/White 1 move tutors are pretty much nonexistent. And Serperiors level-up moveset is so unbelievably bad I actually had to reset midway through the game because using it got really frustrating.
Game Freak realized Bulbasaur had it too easy on gen 1 and decided they'd shit on every grass starter going forward.
Okay, but with Treeko.... you can get Bullet Seed right outside the forest right before Roxanne.... so you don't have to use Absorb, you can use something that hits pretty hard between 2-5 times.
I love bullet seed in fire red for bulba and i give him miracle seed to buff it so your hitting like 15-20 at 100 percent 2-5 times really good
That would be good in modern games, but in GBA versions of Gen 3 Bullet seed has the power of 10 per seed, so the damage is still quite bad even if it's better than Absorb.
Bullet Seed still isn't that good.
Bullet Seed is horrible and usually only hits 2 times.
We must remember that this is Gen 3 Bullet Seed, which deals only 10 damage per hit. That's equal to Absorb at worst, and barely edges out Ember or Water Gun at BEST, which won't be happening very often.
Well the guy just outside the flower shop in gen3 gives you bullet seed , which is enough to carry you through the game until you get leaf blade
Sergeant, go stand guard! Duuubious....Dubios!
@@BrodieBr0 ????
@@KyurunVulpix It's just a play on words. 'Bullet Seed' - Seargent in the army, artillery fire, etc, etc.
I actually did a Grass type run in Ruby a while back. I ran my Sceptile with Earthquake for Poison and Fire coverage, Aerial Ace for Bug type coverage, Leaf Blade, and Dragon Claw. Ice and Flying stood no chance against my Cradily. My Cradily has Toxic, Rock Tomb, Earthquake, Giga Drain
@@Kali_Krause Darn , thats a really goood team
I guess at some point in life the word difficult became synonymous with bad. Chikorita you’ll always be a champion in my eyes.
Only razor leaf and solar beam? Sounds bad to me
@@antoschka-5065 especially when the first two gyms destroy it and rival 2 completely invalidates it.
Some months ago i said to me u never played trough gen 2 with chikorita so i started a playtrough but after like 3 badges i came to the conclusion the struggle is just not worth it lol
well chikorita is not meant to be an offensive pokemon based on its stats and moveset.
If it's competitive, I guess?
Sad part is, a lot of these are my favourites to pick (I just love grass type starters in general except for Chespin)
Treecko line especially, Grovyle is my…3rd? favourite pokemon (solely because explorers of sky)
I picked Chikorita in my first run of Soulsilver (second ever pokemon game after Diamond)
And I picked Snivy in my first run of Black.
Grass types are some of the coolest designs in the whole game. Snivy is one of my all time favorites but without contrary it’s an awful Pokémon
What's wrong with Chespin? He's the best grassy boy! ^_^
I still don't understand what's so wrong about the chespin line, their design is so cool and creative, they aren't as powerful as cringe greninja or furry delphox, but that doesn't make them bad either. chespin is one of my favorite starters along with cyndaquil and popplio
@@Pao-vo8mf I mean everyone has their own opinions.
Some people even like the elemental monkeys when they’re some of the most hated Pokémon.
Just the Chespin line is by far my least favourite grass starter, and the only time I didn’t pick Grass for my first run.
I just don’t like how it goes from Chespin (which I like the design of) to Quilladant (who is the generic ugly middle stage evolution IMO) and then from green and brown to white and red outlines for Chesnaught. I think it could’ve been good but I personally, and many others, just don’t like the design.
Also what’s with the Greninja and Delphox nicknames? Well Delphox may attract furries but still
@@Oxijinn_ I think the problem lies at the feet of Quiladin exclusively. Chespin and Chesnaught are good designs in their own right, but the middle form fails at the two main things a mid stage evolution is supposed to do. It isn't an appealing design itself to most people, and it fails at bridging the gap between the lovable Chespin and the bulky brawler Chesnaught. If you fix Quiladin, the line gets more coherent and has logical progression.
"Chespin can only hit back for 1/4th damage"
It gets rollout
It also has stab fighting type moves against the ice gym leader, that was just making it sound worse than it Is
@@thecriticalghost4626 that is why he said you need speed investment
In other words: Grass type starters will teach you to build a balanced team.
unless its gen 1, where the bulbasaur line can carry you pretty easy against all but 1(maybe 2) gym leaders, and will almost negate 2 of the elite 4 members.
@@marcosdheleno yeah cause in Kanto, venusaur has a pretty easy time there, unlike charizard who just get's completely destroyed
@@bulborb8756 the irony is, in FR/LG speedrun, Blastoise is the go to pokemon for a run.
but the one that COULD dethrone him would be none other than Charizard himself, its just that, its all theoretical at the moment, as noone was able to pull it off yet.
I have always loved grass as my starters, going all the way to choosing Bulbasaur as my first. Yes, grass has more weaknesses, but they tend to be tanky and make the game more interesting. You have to build a team to cover your starter. Plus grass moves are so much fun. Leech seed, synthesis, giga drain, sunny day/solar beam...and so on.
At least the Chikorita line got a lot of love in rom hacks
How was chikorita buffed?
@@deocharismostrales4142 In Radical Red Meganium got the Triage ability which gives +1 priority to every move with an healing effect on top of the additional fairy typing. It's not amazing but still a pretty solid mon
Polished Crystal gave her the added Fairy-Type upon evolving into Meganium
Alternate Title: grass Type starters suck
In normal Play through
Grass types suck in general
@@gofglida4155 nope not always. In gen 6 and 7 Serperior and Mega sceptile where Good in competitive. Amonguss and Therrothorn are relevant in competitive since gen 5
@@dannytent8776 I don’t think the grass type is the reasoning to why ferrothorn is good in competitive. There is a secondary typing it has that makes it significantly better.
@@gofglida4155 yeah but the Grass type adds to that with: ingrain, Leech seed, power whip and Seed Bomb
I grew up with Gen 5 with Snivy and all did to beat the gym leaders, even though it wasn’t a great time, I just grind and leveled them up until they were about ten levels ahead of the gym leaders Pokémon. And by the time I beat the game, I am literally at LV. 80 or 90.
Chespin actually has a pretty easy time against the first gym of Kalos, it learns rollout at level 8, which you could OHKO the vivillon with if you build it up against surskit first.
And you can teach Quilladin the TM for rock smash before the second gym, which hits both of Grant's pokemon for super effective damage, 4x on the amaura. (also ice doesn't resist anything except itself, so grass is still super effective against a rock/ice type)
Thank you for bringing this up. Also, aside from Hawlucha and Jumpluff, the Chespin line has good enough defense to do its part in those gyms. I played Y with Chespin and to even think that its options are more limited than gen 3 Treecko is laughable. It pulls its weight throughout the entire game.
@@istokipsy6289 Chespin is really bad for the Rock Gym because of Stab Refrigerate Take Down.
Also, Surskit doesn't have a bug move so you can use Rollout safely.
It's kind of hilarious - Fennekin actually performs the worst against that gym due to Surskit's Water Sport and Bubble, while Chespin just sweeps with Rollout. Totally backwards from what is expected given typing.
I'd say the mega saved Sceptile for the most part. For one thing, you have less of a disadvantage against Winnona's Altaria because it gains dragon as a STAB type, and for the same reason it's useful against Drake's Pokémon too. On top of that, you get a physical attack buff!
But isn't Mega Altaria also part Fairy?
@@Kali_Krause As far as I know Altaria doesn't mega evolve in the gym. Correct me if I'm wrong
@@toni929ann you are not. The only Megas you battle in the main story of ORAS are your two rivals (May/Brandon and Wally), the evil team leader and Steven. In the postgame, you have the evil team lieutenants, Zinnia and Elite 4 rematches.
@@yorecf9641 the rival has a mega?
@@owenaspinall2046 yes, in the battle after you defeat Steven.
There's more to Pokémon than just type advantages. Yeah, they are important, but what makes Grass types so great and fun to train is the life steal moves they get. They're usually capable of actually taking big hits because grass types are the vampires of Pokémon. Snivy is my favorite starter ever, and it really is a great grass type. I never have any trouble implementing it on my gen 5 teams.
What I will say is that Chikorita barely gets life steal moves. This video did touch on weaknesses these starters have beyond type advantage/disadvantage, but I think it could have stood to go more in depth with movepools and such.
The reasons why playing PMD Explorers for the first time, as a Treecko, was so goated cuz I could just entirely ignore the mechanic of hunger depleting health when it hits 0, as i could continuously restore my health by using up to 3 different life steal moves, and in that game type resistance isn't as strong as main series, so you always do decent damage, and overkill anything late-game without even having to evolve. I know it's a different type of game altogether but it's what got me to always go for the grass type in subsequent pokemon games i'd play ( I chose all 4/4 starters cited in the video )
Looking forward to playing with Chikorita in Blaze Black 2 Redux. The mod authors give it Serene Grace and the Fairy type. SG gives its Moonblast a 60% chance to lower sp. atk, and it learns dual screens at lvl 17.
Gen 1 gave grass such an advantage that they were like "nah, can't do that again"
At least Mega Sceptile was the night fury of Pokemon for a couple generations. Counting mega evolution it was the fastest dragon type.
It still is fastest dragon
Forest fury indeed
Chikorita is one of my favs, but i have to admit: if you dont want your soul to be crushed in the main games GSC you better take Cynda. Fire types are so rare and there are better water types than the starters. With HgSs chikorita is fine actually ❤❤
hgss chikorita does significantly worse because the first two gyms now have better stab options to destroy it and rival 2 still completely walls it. (quilava, gastly and zubat)
Nah it still sucks. It’s such a well done design but it sucks hard. Beedrill at least got a powerful mega. Meganium deserves to be one of the best grass types ever
@@RainmakerXBooty if the fairy type would have existed in Gen 2 (or atleast 4) and it would have gotten it, as well as a much better movepool, it could have been much better starter.
It still wouldn't be great since Jotho is still a nightmare for Grass types, but it atleast could do something against some fighting, dark and dragon trainers.
Then there’s me who only uses Treecko in gen 3, Snivy in gen 5, Chespin in gen 6 and last but not least, one of my favourite starter Pokémon in Chikorita, I found it quite fun doing a solo run of gen 2 with the Chikorita line.
Sceptile at number 5 is an actual crime. He's literally the only grass type pokemon with a decent grass type move in a predominantly water region.
The worst thing js most grass type starters dont have a 2nd type.I prefer chesnaught over sceptile for the sole reason of its double typing.Other than that sceptile(of course with a 2nd typing would be pretty good)its atk and special atk should be reversed.Serperior is pretty good on its own i dont find it that bad.Chikorita sadly is too bad probably a grass/fairy typing would change that but right now is an awful starter even though i love its design
Sceptile was done dirty not getting dragon type
having a dragon as the second type tho would be too OP since the basic fire-water-grass starter should always be an advantage and disadvantage of another type. Sceptile with dragon type will be resistant to fire, so it cannot be. That's why the mega evolution is good for Sceptile but still it's movepool is poor
what makes that more ironic is that bulbasaur from the start was a duo type. and it being poison, really gives it a massive advantage against lance in gen 1.
Mega sceptile has good movepool coverage
Dragon pulse / leafstorm / focus blast / earthquake is enough to wreck the OU metagame during Oras , especially with latias latios and mega slowbro running around
Leafstorm modest sceptile also ohko landorus t btw
@@goshi2712 in general, dragon is TOO strong of a type to give to a starter
Another factor I think should be included for how “good” or “bad” a starter can be is that one would also have to look at just what kind of Pokémon of the same type can you get. Like if your starter is by far the best water/fire/grass type in early/mid/late game available, I think that merits points in a Pokémons overall viability.
This is a heavy point in favor of the fire starters. I agree, though.
In fairness, it wouldn't change the list that much. In RSE, you have Breloom. In Gen V you have Whimsicott and Lilligant as well as Roserade in B2W2. In XY you have Venusaur. Only starter that would *maybe* benefit from this rule is Chikorita since Grass types in general are pretty mid in Gen II.
@@crazycoolkids00 Especially in Diamond and Pearl, where the only other fire types are Ponyta, Rapidash, and Flareon until you get the national dex. Platinum at least mitigates this somewhat by adding a few more fire types to the regional dex.
Gen 3 has a similar problem. Other than Blaziken there are only 4 other options, of which none are particularly good. Camerupt and Torkoal aren’t terrible, but Magcargo and Ninetales are pretty bad.
That wouldn't change anything about this list, everyone but chikorita has better options in their regions in The early game, that would only Ensure that not a single fire type starter would be able to get in a top like this
I like how this dude jumps right into the video without an extended intro! Like, I really appreciate that 😂💪🏽
That's why each and every trainer should carry more than one pokemon😂💀
It was a bit of a grind at times, but I had a very handy moveset with a Serperior in Gen 5 that worked well in the Elite Four.
Held Item: Big Root
Leech Seed
Coil
Mega/Giga Drain
Leaf Blade
Begin with a leech seed, use and abuse coil, hyper potion and then destroy.
It wasn't pretty, but there's definitely potential.
i love watching pokemon youtube vids. Your videos are probably the most palatable i've watched recently. Thanks for posting content.
I'm a sucker for most grass type starters. It's mostly because they're under dogs and i like a bit of a challenge. Plus some of their designs are appealing to me.
In conclusion: GRASS
You've been getting in my recommended lately, and been Ive been really enjoying your stuff
you make very good videos, your voice is nice to hear, and the audio quality is great. keep it up boss
I actually did a solo playthrough of HG with the Chikorita line. It was pretty fun, have the video up of me fighting Red on my channel
Kind of wish you talked more about Serperior in BW2 and not just BW1 because it swapped a neutral gym 2 matchup with a bad gym 2 matchup in order to get a good gym 8 matchup instead of a bad gym 8 matchup. However... That's far worse in practice than on paper. The advantages of one pokemon matter much more in the early game, especially in non SS games without the wild area, because your access to pokemon is much more limited. The tradeoff is absolutely awful when you try to execute it
Please don't stop thus content. Been a pokemon fan since young, and been a fan of your BO2 top 5s and top 10s so this is like perfect. And if you start making shorts and stuff, you're gonna make it big in the pokemon fan base
Fun story: A Sceptile helped me win a battle on Pokemon Showdown, using a more defensive moveset. Substitute, Leech Seed, Giga Drain and Earthquake. I hid behind Subbies and sapped opponents' HP. It must've been annoying to battle!
Defensive Sceptile is a thing?!
@@whatdatechnodogedoin It was randomly generated on Showdown. I dig it though, and it didn't get killed! It seemed to prioritise avoiding hits instead of eating hits with bulk, which Sceptile doesn't have.
@@whatdatechnodogedoin actually yes in gen 3 it's a good sub seed staller lol
sub-seed is good in nearly all competitive battles. The problem is; You don't get many options for an even 6 on 6 match in game to use competitive non hyper offensive strats. Why sub seed when you can 2h KO every mon in game when using SE moves or if you were actually competitive, pull out your sword dancer or what not and one shot their entire team? Name a time you needed to set up screens or rocks or even u-turn in game?
for Treecko, you're supposed to pick up Bullet Seed TM before Rustboro, and get Miracle Seed after beating Roxanne and returning to the forest with Cut and make Treecko hold it... makes a tiny difference but two grass type attacks is better than one lol
This!
Bullet Seed still only has a maximum power of 50 in gen 3 if all five seeds hit, which is unlikely. It still sucks.
@@MarvinPowell1 lol no one said it's a strong move 🤣🤣🤣 Absorb is the only grass type move Treecko knows for quite a while, and it's already a weak move, by teaching it Bullet Seed it'll have a second grass type move before Roxanne, and it will still usually deal more damage than Absorb... again, having 2 grass type moves is better than one, especially this early in the game 🤷♂️
Contrary Serperior has been solid competitively tbh. But yeah.. during the base game, he’s not amazing
I saw #1 coming before I clicked on the video, it was just to find out who else would be on the list
The poor grass starters lol. Great stuff dude :)
Pat you should check out Pokémon rejuvenation/reborn. It’s a fan game that you can choose any of the 24 starters (with hidden abilities) and has a really interesting/tough play through.
Chikorita might not be good, but it's become my favorite starter
I did use Serperior in B&W and really enjoyed it. Yes I couldnt use him as much as empoleon in gen 4 but he was still an important main stay of my team
YESSSSSS its the SmithPlays again with Pokemon, I love smith
Choosing a grass starter is playing the game on hard difficulty
Except Gen 1. Otherwise yeah lol
@@atomicpunk2360 leech seed is amazing
This is just a grass starter slander video
It doesn’t matter what anyone tells me, but to me, chikoreta is not just one of my favorite starters but is also in my opinion the best johto starter
Great video, yeah, seems tough to use a grass type starter for sure, I’ve mainly used fire or water, anyways, keep it up!
😂😂😂 I love using grass types I don’t think these starters are bad I just think it comes down to bad matchups in gyms
Fun fact for you: as a kid I thought electric didn’t effect rock types because I never knew that Geodude and onix were part ground.
Fast forward to Gen 3 and it would always blow my mind that electric moves hit the Aron line since he’s rock and assumed it was a bug.
Fast forward more and I didn’t learn that electric moves could hit rock types until maybe a year ago, I think a little less though…I’m 29 😭
they do... w h a t ??..
I thought that aron can be hit with electric type moves cause he is *only* a steel type... 😳 And I believed too in rock type immunity to electricity..
Well... It was TODAY when i learned this information too, thanks 😭
@@cryptid8872 it BLEW my mind. Someone shocked something with like thunder shock…maybe nose pass? I don’t exactly remember but I was so confused!!
And after watching all these “can you beat” challenges I finally realized it. It’s insane, once I got a tad bit older than 5 and knew what I was doing I never tried to zap a rock type after Brock!
@@cryptid8872 and I’m fairly certain Aron is Steel/ Rock no??
@@cryptid8872 yeah buddy just looked it up, Aaron line is dual!
Unless you were saying you thought they were just steel? Haha im a little high my bad!
Recently I played Heartgold and decided to start Chikorita to try something new because I played Cyndaquil and Totodile back in Gold and Crystal. Bugsy made me want to restart the whole game. I've never before had a run that made me feel this way in Pokemon ever.
Your ability to make a video super addictive to watch at the start is unmatched.
serperior gets aqua tail and dragon pulse for the fire and dragon types so that counts for something.
Unfortunately, both are move tutor moves, and are inaccessible in Black and White without trade exploits
@@matthewkuscienko4616 right but theres no harm in trading and trading back lol
Contrary Serperior was kinda good competitively tbh. So it’s rly not bad
Well in Chikorita's defense against Pryce it can beat him but only if your lucky and careful
That applies to chikorita in nearly any gym.
For Chikorita I always got it to its final stage and then brought it back for Kanto because it shines there.
They put bullet seed and the miracle seed early in the game I think to balance it for sceptile, plus it learns dragon claw and crunch by breeding
But Chespin gets rollout, that makes the bug gym pretty easy just saying
Septile can learn roll out too
@@blacksheep7741 I don't think it's a level up move for Sceptile though, Chespin learns it at like lvl 11 or something
And in addition, the only bug move Viola's team knows is Infestation, the bug equivalent to Constrict. I does barley anything to Chespin despite it being super effective. So, if anything, Chespin has the advantage here.
It's pretty much just grass type that's bad- the starters I usually pick. No wonder some of my runs have been so frustrating- it's like playing a souls game.
I never encountered much difficulty, and I picked grass every time
I almost never have a grass type on my team for a few reasons. 1- water Pokemon learn ice moves, 2- water and grass both beat ground and rock so just use a water Pokemon, 3- Gengar is my favorite so I just use Giga Drain on it and use Gengar as my "grass Pokemon"
Question: does this list use or skip TMs? Because Treeko can get TM Bullet Seed right after the forest in RSE, and that would probably help over Absorb.
Chespin can learn Rollout before Viola, so it’s actually super good for that gym
Also he chesnaught can learn stone edge which takes care of most of his disadvantages. 🥰
@@grimphantom99insaneenderma85 i think you mean stone miss
The Chikorita line is actually a lot better than people give it credit for. No, you don't get a lot of favorable attacking matchups, but the Chikorita line aren't designed for that; they're bulky Pokémon designed to take hits and heal the damage away with synthesis, leftovers, (and if you breed it, leech seed!)
That said, Meganium shines much more in the fan games like Pokémon Faria's final battles (use walk through walls if you need to deal with the glitches locking you out.) Leech Seed + Toxic + bulk helps conserve items vs Lv100 NPCs.
Sceptile is interesting, since if you're playing RSE, you'll likely have used Sceptile against numerous Geodude and its evolutions, so you should have a decent investment of defense EVs, making Sceptile decently bulky. Also it's pretty fast, so it can often quickly KO Glacia's water types before they can counter-attack. Unless you EV-train Sceptile, I wouldn't use it on Tate and Liza because of Solrock's flamethrower. HOWEVER, where Sceptile really shines is against Team Aqua, with all of their water types, Leaf Blade tears them to pieces (just watch out for Golbat and the like)
I've never played Chespin or Snivy.
This video's title should be "how Grass-type Pokémon get screwed in gym and Elite Four match-ups", because that's what it's really all about. Apart from Treecko, the video didn't try to analyze whether these starters were actually the weakest out of the ones in each game, it just lists how each and every match-up at Pokémon Gyms and the Elite Four is stacked against them.
Chikorita : Bad
Sceptile : Bad
Snivy : Bad
Chespin: Bad
Dont worry, our boy Bulbasaur will avenge you all !
Bellsprout is the real grass starter in johto if u ask me
Btw, I did not get triggered when Snivy was mentioned..good thing I love you and your videos xD
Lol it's Wiss-Cash & Milo-Tick. I used to think it was Melodic too and it sort of made sense but the anime confirmed it to be My-Low-Tick.
I know that most pokemon games are so easy that attack is the only stat that matters, but I still think you're selling the defensive starters short. In order to get a sweeper out reliably, you need a good matchup to switch into. Some of the best ways to do that is to either have a good tank or have a good pivot, and grass types can be good at the latter. Even if they don't have the stats to back up those roles, they can always have the moves. I used a Meganium in a HG playthrough and it never knocked out anything, but it didn't need to because it had Refect and Light Screen. It's job was to make switching in easier for the rest of the team, and it was pretty good at that.
Chespin actually does the best against Viola though and is the Choice starter for Speedruns of Pokemon X/Y. Originaly it was used against viola for rollout but eventually was replaced with the trade farfetch'd which gets swapped out latter for Hawlucha and Lucario.
I recently played through Yellow and didn’t even need to use my team hardly against the E4 because the Pikachu dominated lol. Use Thunder Wave, then 6 Double Teams. Then use Thunderbolt or Body Slam lol
Whenever there’s a list like this of the weakest starters, they’re pretty much always dominated by the grass types, which really highlights just how abysmal the type actually is. Of the 5 Pokemon on this list, 4 of them were grass types and the only one that wasn’t was only on the list because it literally couldn’t evolve. I always say this, but it is absolutely crazy just how poorly balanced grass was, especially compared to the other two starter types.
Edit: also, by the way, just wanted to point out that NONE of the starters on the strongest starters list that’s also on this channel were grass types.
I feel like torterra should be there it has a stacked level up moveset and tm movest with strong attack and defense and curse pumps that even higher
It's tragic. Even the series best like Rillaboom and Torterra aren't great through the mainline games :/
@@smithplayspokemonOoh, got a response from the channel!!
Okay serious question, if Pikachu could evolve in Yellow version, would Raichu still have been on the list, and if not, what would have taken its place? Like, could it really have been *another* grass starter?
i keep saying this but, what really makes this sadder is the fact venusaur is one of the best starters in gen 1. it has the most easy time of them with the gym leaders, with only facing some dificulty with blaine and maybe sabrina. completely negates bruno and will turn half of lance's team into useless target practices.
the only reason blastoise ends up superior is due to its movelist and resistances. and even then venusaur carries itself well enough to not be that far behind.
In all honesty, starter pokemon aren’t that great statistically.
But there’s a charm to them, in that you’re usually offered one choice from three in the beginning of the game and you can’t cleanly obtain the other two without trading
Most starter Pokémon are just not very powerful outside of play through teams. A couple of dumb rocks made charizard cry its way to NU.
Love the vid... on a technical level, how on earth are you able to use the persona 5 soundtrack without getting slammed by dmca? Love these tunes.
I always over-level my Pikachu in yellow so I've never noticed not being that strong cuz its just a gigachad at all times from all the battles I put it through
LMAO You don't have to deal with Absorb for Treeko because you get Bullet Seed in one of the early routes, and it can easily deal with Roxanne.
Im just goin to go ahead and say it...and us real Pokemon trainers know this one statement:....No Pokemon is bad or good...the whole point is to train what u want and develop a team u can be proud of.
I was like 5 years old when I tried to fight Bugsy's Scyther in Pokemon Crystal with my Bayleef. Scythers Fury Cutter traumatized me forever. I still remember succeeding after countless tries tho lol
Still can't believe that he forgot Chespin learns Rollout naturally, so Vivilion still isn't that much of a threat. Also, Ice doesn't resist Grass, so Aurorus is still weak to Grass attacks, not to mention still weak to Rollout as well.
It's funny how this one Rock move can really help for the early game. Helps against Viola, Grant's Amaura, Ramos' Jumpluff, the Emolga's in Lumiose Gym, and Wulfric's Ice types.
Also, again, if you're gonna take the bonus typing from fighting into account, then Wulfric's Ice Gym should be fine. None of his team resist Fighting.
As for Valerie and Olympia, yeah that's gonna rip Chesnaught up bad.
As for the Elite 4, yeah Chesnaught doesn't get too far there either. Drasna and Malva crap all over Chesnaught, Wikstrom doesn't make Fighting moves any good, and Siebold, as you stated, has Starmie and Gyarados, so Chesnaught doesn't get much from there.
And finally, the Champion does have an advantage with Gourgeist, Hawlucha, Goodra and Gardevoir. However, the Fossil Pokemon are still susceptible to Fighting attacks. Hammer Arm on one and Wood Hammer on the other and you're pretty much golden.
So, I think Chespin outclasses Pika and Serperior, and I love both of those two, but Chespin clenches it big time over both of those.
Serperior>sceptile
Sceptile is bad in every game
Serperior is bad in BW but in competitive pokemon you know it got contrary-leafstorm, that makes it broken.
Yes this video is 10 months old but I’ve come to defend Meganium after just using it in a heartgold play through. Getting a brave nature gives your early game razor leafs the oomph to ohko through your early game and your tackles some extra damage. We take minus speed because late game petal dance and eventually giga drain aren’t gonna want that minus special nature from something like adamant. Ofc you’re not gonna use meganium in any disadvantageous match ups but when it’s strong it’s strong. With dual screens you can eat super effective attacks and even ko frail fires with earthquake. It’s a late game beast in a game with one of the more drawn out late games. I personally loved it.
LMFAO Poor Chespin xD.
Sees my favorite starter of Gen 2: "Oh my god..."
I think Chespins is funnier though because he actually appears to almost get worse due to the /Fighting xD, it's the main reason he does terribly on 6 and 7.
I always picked Meganium in Gen 2. Simply coz there were a tonne of water types & I planned on grabbing Houndoom.
Sunny Day Synthesis Solar Beam & Body Slam made it quite useful
Another big factor is how early you can fill the slot the starter takes up. Oddish, Paras, Bellsprout, Shroomish, and Budew can all be obtained super early in the first 4 gens. Grass is just too easy to fill to waste your starter on, unfortunately.
Why even use grass types at all tbh
Odd 🤔 I never had a problem with chespin in my playthrough do to move coverage earthquake,stone edge, hammer arm, wood hammer.
He wasnt a tortera sure 🤔 but I could give him moves to make him feel equivalent.
known you for years, pat. never thought id find you making pokemon videos 😂 lovin it tho, i just got back into pokemon
Great video 👍🏽
lately I do playthroughs with starting area pokemon as my "starter" rather than one of the 3 you can choose
Soul Silver with a ledyba starter is pretty challenging and fun
Bulbasaur was too Chad, so they had to nerf the entire type afterwards...
Fax 🗿
Sceptile being able to learn earthquake helps a ton for the elite 4. One shotted Metagross in the championship battle
Lots of grass types on this list but I guess that's what happens when gamefreak have a hard on for fire types and neglect the other two
what other 2? water is almost always the easier choice of the 3. with their access to ice moves, really strong water moves, and even some op ground moves.
also in gen 1, its almost a tie between venusaur and blastoise which is the best starter, with blastoise winning due to access to pretty useful stuff earlier(against the gyms it would be weak against) like bite and mega punch vs misty, or dig against surge.
venusaur only really starts to face some problems with blaine, maybe sabrina. both are miles ahead of charizard its not even funny.
Sooo many starters get done dirty but pretty much all of them are grass types (so many weaknesses)
Pretty much the only grass type to do *good* in a playthough - not just decent but actually good - is bulbasaur, who actually gets off with a very strong start with the first few gyms and even the final gym