Thanks Matt for the overview. I can't wait to add this to my reloading bench next to the AMP with the AMP Mate. This tool will satisfy my curiosity on several things. When and by how much does a difference in seating force actually show up on the target...with my rifle, my chamber, my barrel, with my reloading technique of my brass, my bullet, my powder and my primers. Everyone is different, but this tool will show what works best for me...in my unique situation. You guys keep pushing the understanding, the slow removal of the veil between mystery and science. No longer is it black magic, but a simple formula or routine of making the best match ammo for ELR and 1 mile paper that I can. Our own progressions hit speed bumps. I'm glad you are one of the guys helping to clear those speed bumps and allow us to ascend to the next level.
Wow, what a fantastic diagnostic tool. Will certainly give direct feedback on case prep and seating and show outliers and discrepancies. Software looks great. Look forward to optimising some case/neck options for best consistent results. Congratulations, you've hit another one out the park! Not for everyone but for the OCD reloaders amongst us, bloody awesome!
I look forward to BRT getting stock so I can get my hands on this tool. I do have a couple of requests though, Is it possible to export the data into Excel for better analysis and sorting? I have my cases numbered and would like to have the ability to input the starting trace number per batch or per case.
Hi Brett, There is an option to export the data to a CSV file so you can import it into Excel if you want. The program already does have the ability to sort traces by either the peak force, work load or the order they were done of that helps.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 Was more wanting to input the starting trace No. Say I load cases 1-10 in one batch then cases 50-70 in another batch, I'd like to have the trace start at 50 for the 2nd batch.
@@1868Brett You could just create your first trace and set the starting number to anything you like. We will be adding small features like this after initial feedback.
Great gilding the lily! Good for uniform bullet "pull", but only if case necks are of uniform hardness ( AMP ???). The trace shows the initial pressure rise as the boat tail of the bullet starts expanding the neck, then the slower but steady rise as the shank of the bullet steadily expands the neck, and the final peak as the shank ofthe bullet reaches the effectively thicker neck- shoulder junction....once the shank has passed this junction, pressure drops. Very good micro-analysis of the bullet seating process, but to what pro???, Getting even bullet pull depends on Neck metal uniformity...even with the best uniformity in drawing, annealing, and bullet specification uniformity there will still be tolerances that will cause variations in bullet pull.... I suppose the best one can do is achieve an average pull which gives the best accuracy in a single barrel. I would say the AMP Press is excellent for experimentation and research, but for regular reloading of medium to large reloading is a bit over the top. DocAV
You have cartridges that pull the bullet out and down the barrel? Crazy. All mine push bullets out and down the barrel. Maybe that's why this is "over the top" for you. You probably need an ass-backward version of this tool to measure the ass-backward bullet unseating - and firing - of your ass-backward cartridges by seeing how much force bullet pulling requires instead of bullet pushing.
Uhhh..."conventional" - some would say STANDARD presses and all dies made for them put the shell holder and cases - the parts that are never perfectly "consistent" - on the moving ram and secure the dies in the press frame so they are locked in position and can never move and introduce variables and the ram in the press and the case in the die and the bullet in the case are the only moving parts. And of course they're also multi-purpose and decap (remove primers) and size cases, expand case mouths when loading handgun or straight-wall rifle cartridges, seat bullets and crimp cases when needed. This "perfect" press seats only? And requires NON-STANDARD "dies" for the step where dies are really "needed" least? And the die has to be used "upside down" and "floats" under the ram and must be taken off and put on the "load cell" every time? I fail to see how this "high tech" bullet seater with oddball "dies" can possibly be more accurate OR precise than the STANDARD presses and dies that have been used...forever...to handload and reload ammo even on a "production" level simply because it provides "data" from previous bullet seating "events". It's not like there is anything the press or loader can do after the fact to create better "data" and honestly sizing "force" variation "data" would be WAY more useful for "brass prep" including annealing and checking how "perfect" they are. Neck tension i.e. "seating force" can never be "accurate" if case prep is not "complete" - decapping, sizing, trimming, deburring, cleaning- degreasing, resizing and priming. Factory ammuniton is loaded using "perfectly" clean - inside and out and top to bottom - and uniform cases as "identical" as possible. After firing what possible reason could there be for deviating from the processes required to make the cases as close to "like new" as possible? Neck tension will always be "perfect" if you use "factory" reloading dies and case prep processes to get the cases back into "spec". Neck reaming or turning or otherwise "cutting" after resizing and trimming "perfectly" clean cases to "spec" will never "improve" neck tension which is what it is when cases and bullets are in "spec" because THAT IS WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AND WHEN IT IS IN "SPEC". The material used in cases and case dimensions and seating depth and bullet length and shape determine the overall neck "friction" on the bullet which determines chamber pressure. Altering anything about load data especially case dimensions to alter neck friction does nothing for "accuracy" or "consistency" because all PRECISION built into the "hardware" is LOST. The neck tension "spec" is not meant and the "perfect" neck tensions were "developed" by ammunition manufacturers and gun makers on "day one" of creating new cartridges and turning "wildcats" into commercial cartridges. Nothing about "wildcats" makes them any more or less dependent on those industry "standards" for neck thicknesses when they all use factory cases, case materials, bullets, primers and powders from commercial cartridges. And "data" used to compare "methods" that produce different "finished products" with different physical properties and/or dimensions is useless for determining "accuracy" of loaded ammo which no matter how "consistent" in seating force can never be "consistently accurate" without 100% "controlled conditions" at the range. Some ammo manufacturers DO have "ranges" with absolutely consistent conditions of zero wind and constant temp and humidity because they are underground tunnels below the "frost line" and connected to climate-controlled buildings. They develop or rather make "hunting" bullets, cases, ammunition and "wildcat" cartridges they "commercialize". But they don't alter cases from "spec" for more "accuracy" and don't use dirty or once-fired cases "developing" cartridge load OR RELOAD DATA.
@@johnwilliams1091 Yes, from your perspective. Not theirs. Personally, I am not sure what shooter needs this. I think it is good for testing various processes, but not for the common shooter.
@@justice1327 for what it’s worth, I work in manufacturing. All they’re doing is passing the risk of breaking something along to their customers and saving on packaging costs. I’ve actually bought the AMP II, and I can’t believe how immature their packaging is, and that it made it to me in one piece. For the price point, they need to step up their game and pack these properly.
Stay away from Ikea then.....I think the reason behind the decision to sell disassembled is due to shipping being charged by the cubic centimetre. If someone lacks the skill for such a simple assembly then maybe they need to rethink if reloading is a good hobby for them.
Thanks Matt for the overview. I can't wait to add this to my reloading bench next to the AMP with the AMP Mate. This tool will satisfy my curiosity on several things. When and by how much does a difference in seating force actually show up on the target...with my rifle, my chamber, my barrel, with my reloading technique of my brass, my bullet, my powder and my primers. Everyone is different, but this tool will show what works best for me...in my unique situation.
You guys keep pushing the understanding, the slow removal of the veil between mystery and science. No longer is it black magic, but a simple formula or routine of making the best match ammo for ELR and 1 mile paper that I can. Our own progressions hit speed bumps. I'm glad you are one of the guys helping to clear those speed bumps and allow us to ascend to the next level.
Thanks @B2LEE! We are looking forward to the feedback.
On my, wait till Gavin over at Gavintoobe sees this!
Outstanding. I’m going to have to snag one. I’ve had your amp annealer mkII since it came out and I swear by it. Another fantastic product!
Wow, what a fantastic diagnostic tool. Will certainly give direct feedback on case prep and seating and show outliers and discrepancies. Software looks great. Look forward to optimising some case/neck options for best consistent results. Congratulations, you've hit another one out the park! Not for everyone but for the OCD reloaders amongst us, bloody awesome!
Good stuff as always!
❤ thank you
Very cool tech.
What seating die are you using please ? Thank you. And love your products. Just ordered the annealer ! Can’t wait to use it.
LE Wilson Inline seating dies
I look forward to BRT getting stock so I can get my hands on this tool. I do have a couple of requests though, Is it possible to export the data into Excel for better analysis and sorting? I have my cases numbered and would like to have the ability to input the starting trace number per batch or per case.
Hi Brett,
There is an option to export the data to a CSV file so you can import it into Excel if you want.
The program already does have the ability to sort traces by either the peak force, work load or the order they were done of that helps.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 Was more wanting to input the starting trace No. Say I load cases 1-10 in one batch then cases 50-70 in another batch, I'd like to have the trace start at 50 for the 2nd batch.
@@1868Brett You could just create your first trace and set the starting number to anything you like. We will be adding small features like this after initial feedback.
There is no Sessions button in the menu bar. How do I create a new session?
Great gilding the lily!
Good for uniform bullet "pull", but only if case necks are of uniform hardness
( AMP ???).
The trace shows the initial pressure rise as the boat tail of the bullet starts expanding the neck, then the slower but steady rise as the shank of the bullet steadily expands the neck, and the final peak as the shank ofthe bullet reaches the effectively thicker neck- shoulder junction....once the shank has passed this junction, pressure drops.
Very good micro-analysis of the bullet seating process, but to what pro???,
Getting even bullet pull depends on Neck metal uniformity...even with the best uniformity in drawing, annealing, and bullet specification uniformity there will still be tolerances that will cause variations in bullet pull....
I suppose the best one can do is achieve an average pull which gives the best accuracy in a single barrel.
I would say the AMP Press is excellent for experimentation and research, but for regular reloading of medium to large reloading is a bit over the top.
DocAV
You have cartridges that pull the bullet out and down the barrel? Crazy. All mine push bullets out and down the barrel. Maybe that's why this is "over the top" for you. You probably need an ass-backward version of this tool to measure the ass-backward bullet unseating - and firing - of your ass-backward cartridges by seeing how much force bullet pulling requires instead of bullet pushing.
Is the Press available for purchase? Or when do you anticipate it to be?
It will be released late June.
Amp press mate auto feeder lol. 😂
Uhhh..."conventional" - some would say STANDARD presses and all dies made for them put the shell holder and cases - the parts that are never perfectly "consistent" - on the moving ram and secure the dies in the press frame so they are locked in position and can never move and introduce variables and the ram in the press and the case in the die and the bullet in the case are the only moving parts.
And of course they're also multi-purpose and decap (remove primers) and size cases, expand case mouths when loading handgun or straight-wall rifle cartridges, seat bullets and crimp cases when needed. This "perfect" press seats only? And requires NON-STANDARD "dies" for the step where dies are really "needed" least? And the die has to be used "upside down" and "floats" under the ram and must be taken off and put on the "load cell" every time?
I fail to see how this "high tech" bullet seater with oddball "dies" can possibly be more accurate OR precise than the STANDARD presses and dies that have been used...forever...to handload and reload ammo even on a "production" level simply because it provides "data" from previous bullet seating "events".
It's not like there is anything the press or loader can do after the fact to create better "data" and honestly sizing "force" variation "data" would be WAY more useful for "brass prep" including annealing and checking how "perfect" they are.
Neck tension i.e. "seating force" can never be "accurate" if case prep is not "complete" - decapping, sizing, trimming, deburring, cleaning- degreasing, resizing and priming. Factory ammuniton is loaded using "perfectly" clean - inside and out and top to bottom - and uniform cases as "identical" as possible. After firing what possible reason could there be for deviating from the processes required to make the cases as close to "like new" as possible?
Neck tension will always be "perfect" if you use "factory" reloading dies and case prep processes to get the cases back into "spec". Neck reaming or turning or otherwise "cutting" after resizing and trimming "perfectly" clean cases to "spec" will never "improve" neck tension which is what it is when cases and bullets are in "spec" because THAT IS WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE AND WHEN IT IS IN "SPEC".
The material used in cases and case dimensions and seating depth and bullet length and shape determine the overall neck "friction" on the bullet which determines chamber pressure.
Altering anything about load data especially case dimensions to alter neck friction does nothing for "accuracy" or "consistency" because all PRECISION built into the "hardware" is LOST. The neck tension "spec" is not meant and the "perfect" neck tensions were "developed" by ammunition manufacturers and gun makers on "day one" of creating new cartridges and turning "wildcats" into commercial cartridges. Nothing about "wildcats" makes them any more or less dependent on those industry "standards" for neck thicknesses when they all use factory cases, case materials, bullets, primers and powders from commercial cartridges.
And "data" used to compare "methods" that produce different "finished products" with different physical properties and/or dimensions is useless for determining "accuracy" of loaded ammo which no matter how "consistent" in seating force can never be "consistently accurate" without 100% "controlled conditions" at the range.
Some ammo manufacturers DO have "ranges" with absolutely consistent conditions of zero wind and constant temp and humidity because they are underground tunnels below the "frost line" and connected to climate-controlled buildings. They develop or rather make "hunting" bullets, cases, ammunition and "wildcat" cartridges they "commercialize".
But they don't alter cases from "spec" for more "accuracy" and don't use dirty or once-fired cases "developing" cartridge load OR RELOAD DATA.
one complaint: this press did not show the balance of my bank account and did not wash my underwear. such a disapointed. lol
It’s stupid to put the assembly onto the consumer. Packaging has come a long way, and this should be ready to go out of the box.
Not really...from their point of view. No additional expense for an assembly line, smaller boxes/ less packaging expenses, smaller footprint, etc...
@@justice1327 for this price point, it should be assembled
@@johnwilliams1091 Yes, from your perspective. Not theirs. Personally, I am not sure what shooter needs this. I think it is good for testing various processes, but not for the common shooter.
@@justice1327 for what it’s worth, I work in manufacturing. All they’re doing is passing the risk of breaking something along to their customers and saving on packaging costs. I’ve actually bought the AMP II, and I can’t believe how immature their packaging is, and that it made it to me in one piece. For the price point, they need to step up their game and pack these properly.
Stay away from Ikea then.....I think the reason behind the decision to sell disassembled is due to shipping being charged by the cubic centimetre. If someone lacks the skill for such a simple assembly then maybe they need to rethink if reloading is a good hobby for them.