This ONE thing, can ruin everything else.
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- Опубликовано: 22 июн 2024
- Just ONE thing done at the wrong time, can cause everything else you've done correctly to be completely irrelevant.
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Thank you for the Scripture reading part. Blessings.
You are welcome! His gift, I'm just sharing it. :)
Great information. And thank you for being bold with your faith!
Thank you Mr Dykstra! Great content again. Paul’s letter to Ephesus is a absolute gem for guidance! Thank you for your witness!
You’re welcome! Thank you for the kindness!
Great one! I'm making a video to direct people to this masterclass!
Hey Keith, Thanks for the shoutout. God bless.
Thank you for both messages! It is very evident the Holy Spirit is guiding you.
Never thought I'd hear the term "normal production tumbling rice" but I'm here for it.
Great Word brother, thanks!
Thank you Sir! Could you possibly show us your step by step process for lubing your brass before you size?
Sure thing!
Pretty much my process. I use a universal deprimer as soon as I get home from the range. When I get a batch of 100, I anneal. I’ll then tumble for a short time just to make sure there isn’t any “trash” on or in the case. I’ll then full length resize, and run through my usual brass prep (trim if needed). Then they get a final tumble, pop in a new primer, some powder, and then a boo-lat. Lather, rinse, repeat!
This is the same path I follow . . . Is this in line with the proposed path as outlined in this video?
I 100% agree with your process, and it's very close to my brass prep methods. It is nice to see big batch testing to see it in a graph from the Amp seating press. Thanks.
As a newbie, it would be helpful if you could provide your order of operations. Thanks!
Would be handy.
Praise God! Excellent word. Finally someone using their platform for something good, Jesus and reloading!! God bless you and keep up the great commission!
Great video Greg. I gave up on dry tumble years ago because of the dust. I switched to wet tumble with pins and was happy with the results but recently i went with wet tumble using Dawn and lemi-shine only, not getting that brand new shine but acceptable. I’m new to annealing and your video laid out the steps for a good process. I may add the dry tumbler with rice in the future after sizing to get remove the Imperial Wax. Finally, thanks for the scripture and your faith. God Bless
Thanks for sharing your reloading insights and your heart.
Thanks for making this sacrifice Greg! Nails on the chalkboard are horrible, but doing this to your brass is worse. You're the man!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for all the advice and knowledge and information you put forward for us all i personally have benefited from this info in all forms 👍
Great Research and advice. Thank you very much!
So, my process has been:
Remove primers with Lee APP
Anneal with AMP
Clean
Lube, size, clean
Primer, powder, seat
Think that is OK? Removing the primers with the APP first? It's quick and doesn't work the brass any.
Would like to hear your thoughts.
These videos have become my Sunday morning yard work with education and Bible lessons to start the Sunday!! Great work as always, sir!
The down side of decapping separately is that it adds another opportunity for human hands to introduce variables.
@primalrights I had not considered that. In my thinking, I was using a process that I don't touch the brass after dropping into the case feed tubes, and the decap die has plastic fingers to ensure alignment to center the decap pin so there shouldn't be much, if any, work to the case.
I may have to run an actual test on my current process versus a resize/decap, then rice clean again process.
Thanks for giving me more things to consider and test!!
Have a great Sunday, Greg!
I like the idea of reducing variables...but I don't see how recapping with a press introduces variables...more so that at another stage .... respectfully
@misterlewgee8874 I think Greg is saying that by doing it in a separate step gives another chance for human hands to make a mistake and do something wrong that could have a negative effect on the quality of the brass through the remaining steps.
I will get an AMP press someday to measure the forces and then test the idea. Can't right now, but when I can spend the money on it and have the time to test, I will. When I do, I will post my results here on RUclips under this name. I am still new to this, but trying to document and share my progress as I get into PRS.
In my head, I don't think it would have an effect, but I could see the chance to damage the brass by running it thru another step.
@@ChadKelly7 reloading process is usually a developing, evolving process....most reloaders do it a bit differently and understanding why is interesting an interesting task towards appreciating what fundamentally matters and works.
In this case I can't see why or how decapping separately could make a difference..
I like to decap, give the primer pocket a clean..or uniform..then clean the brass...then anneal..then headspace check , then neck size, then trim, then chamfer if necessary..maybe sonic clean again to remove trimmings...dry lube the necks..then powder, pill.
If I deprimed as I neck sized..etc..id be annealing with the primer still in..which is not preferable..possibly even advised against.
Mr.Primal Rights has many good ideas I feel that have aided my appreciation of brass management.
Thank you for the content. I'm sure it was painful. A few people have not stayed close since I have found Jesus. And that's ok by me. I pray they also will find this good path I find myself on. God Bless.
Awesome video, thank you. And wonderful testimony of faith and where our hearts need to be.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for your words. I gleaned wisdom from them on both accounts.
Wonderful!
well, kept my routine since yrs and got very good results. But I do not have a amp seating station.
1 unprime, 2 wet tumble to shine, 3 drying, 4 annealing (induction), 5 greasing outside (self formula), 6 full sizing (touching) with minimal neck pressure bushing, 7 trimming (incl. cutting edges), 8 inner neck sizing (spigot), 9 cleaning (paper), 10 priming, 11 powdering, 12 seating. SD is normal between 1 to 3 m/s and .3 MOA for 10 rds. Would really be curious to see how the pure seating pressure would be on a amp tool.
When I get ready to prep all my service rifle ammo for the season I'm doing thousands of cases at a time this year I had a batch that I finished late and I did it then out of order and annealed them before sizing and mix them in with the rest of my brass all of which is lake City separated by year and every time I see an old case come out I put it aside now because I noticed it can be extremely difficult to see the bullets into those cases and it is simply because of what he is saying the oxidization.
Thanks for the video, as always, great content!You have convinced me to try your rice tumbling.
Have u tested a nylon brush with a little 0000 steel wool wrapped around it, to smooth out the inside of the necks? Great video
Good Idea. I use steelwool for cleaning the casenecks outside & polishing barrels inside.
Love the preaching at the end! Thank you for sharing the gospel!
You are a good guy. Keep it up.Thank yo.
Thx Greg Amen.
Amazing work you did on this! Thank you! ...now I'm thinking it was a big mistake annealing the brass I made out of .308 to 8.6 blackout after everything was done...I still need to fireform it anyways but I could see the oxidation you were referring to...
Great video. I use a bronze brush brush followed up by a nylon brush in my Lyman prep center as well. Guess Ill be pulling that out now.
The primary reason was to help with the roughness/tarnish of the inside of the necks post annealing. I decap first, but then anneal, size, tumble in SSTL for 30 minutes (just enough to get it clean and not beat the case necks to death) but that doesnt shine up the inside of the necks. From there I run mandrel using Imperial dry lube on the case neck, trim in Giraud, then chamfer, deburr, and brush the necks with the brushes. Without having an AMP mate on hand, do you think that this system is yielding good consistent neck tensions? I can feel the difference when I seat bullets that I do not use dry lube and brush on the case necks.
Having used nonferrous metals in jewelry making I found it takes very little force re-harden the annealed metals. When finishing a piece I will place it in a tumbler with stainless media and tumble to harden the metal and smooth the surface. Working with brass as thin as rifle cases it will take very little force, as you have shown, to harden the case neck to an unacceptable degree.
Never knew you were from my original neck of the woods. I grew up in Isabel. Nice video.
Thank you 🙏🏽
You are welcome!
First, thanks for the dedication that you put into your content. While I'm no F-class, and honestly not looking to be, you have definitely helped my up my game in what I can achieve as a hand-loader. It looks like I have been inadvertently doing things fairly correctly in that I tumble clean for gunk removal, anneal, decap/resize, and then tumble again for removal of lube... didn't really realize I was removing oxidization at the same time. I use a Dillon CV-2001 tumbler with walnut (might give rice a try), and an hour or so typically does a good job, but what is the detriment if left in too long?
Will get too clean.
I can't wrap my head around re-sizing dirty brass let alone annealing it.😅
Maybe you learned the same way I did back in the 80s. Was taught not to size dirty brass so as to not build up carbon gunk in the die. Regarding annealing, I've done it dirty and also have taken steel wool and removed the fouling from the outside of the neck before annealing.
@@derekmcmurry Absolutely. It goes against everything. By no means am I stating Greg is incorrect. In fact, he is using raw data. I am receptive to his findings. I need to put it to practice. It is time to go down the AMP rabbit hole. My bank account will not be happy.
Tens of thousands of rounds a year maintaining 1/3 MOA or better would seem to indicate things are working well with my methods.
@@primalrights Indeed, sir. 👍
Great video. Thank you for the time, effort, and material investment to make it.
Do you ever lube your case neck? Curious what the result would be on your amp press with say different types of lube.
I feel there's not many breakthroughs or improvements being made anymore in the shooting hobby. Somehow you manage to find and demonstrate things that make shooting a little bit more consistent & accurate. The only thing I didn't fully understand is why not to clean brass thoroughly (shiny).
Please see my previous content for full explanations as to why. Long and short of it is that with squeaky clean necks, it produces terrible bullet seating force variation. Our milled rice (Primal Rice) is the antidote.
Maybe the type of annealing you do would make the order different ? Only reason i say this is because I now do short tumble clean first then anneal, size and tumble one last time before seating because when i did anneal before any cleaning the torch just made the necks so damn black and its like it baked in the dirtiness. I tried various times on the annealing everything from only a couple second to just at the brass turns red and stopping and they all were way more black than if i cleaned first then annealed. Maybe cosmetic, but still annoying. not sure if this is an issue with induction annealing or not
I flame anneal as well and was curious about this same thing. I've only ever annealed a few dirty cases and they looked horrible afterwards, had to tumble them again before sizing anyway so I just went back to cleaning them before. Maybe I'll try tumbling both before and after? It was my understanding that tumbling (I wet tumble with stainless steel media) work hardens case necks and shouldn't be done after annealing
@@DanielReyes-hz1qk have zero idea about steel media. I guess it makes sense that it would work harden. I use corn or walnut media and as far as I know I have never seen any research showing it work hardens brass. I only do a short tumble after annealing or sizing to get the case lube off so it’s not a make it or break it stage I wouldn’t think.
Greg hello there. When you spoke about the Nylon brush vs the Bronze brush to clean the inside of the necks. So you don't recommend using a bronze brush inside the neck of the brass?
Thanks for the information I aneal first then I use a nylon brush and then I go back over them and put a coating of Neo Lube on the inside of the case neck I get very smooth bullet seating then I wonder what your thoughts on this is
I have demonstrated my method is less prone to human error and takes less effort to get there due to fewer steps and less hand interaction with the case which reduces the opportunity for variables to enter. So I don't recommend a separate step of dry lube.
Uggh! This never even crossed my mind. In fact I wet wash all of my brass, until 22:14 minutes ago. My clearly incorrect reasoning was 1. To be able to see any imperfections that may be a concern. 2. Clean brass would provide more consistency…. since it’s clean. 3. I just like clean brass - it’s shiny and who doesn’t like shiny things. But thankfully, I am finishing fire forming some new .308 brass and haven’t done a thing with any of them. Thank you for another great video. Winning in the Wind was correct when he recommended people watch this video.
BTW, did you shoot those that you loaded? Maybe I missed it in the video, but I would be curious to see what deviation you had on paper.
Thank you for the kindness! I have done quite a bit of previous content that "proved" that bullet seating pressure variance will produce variance on target. Folks just joining the channel may not have seen it, but I feel like at this point people are just going to have to accept the reality that bullet seating force disparity produces down range disparity. I don't spend much time trying to "prove" things to people here. I just share things I believe in.
@@primalrights Yep, I get not needing to “prove.” I was more interested in what it looks like on paper just to round out my knowledge. Also, I’m going to have to look at this for my pistol brass. Obviously, I’m not normally shooting any great distance with a handgun, but I would presume the results would be similar. I’ll have to test that out. Again, thanks for another eye opening video. It never crossed my mind. 🤦🏼♂️
I'm glad I subscribed awhile back. I've been handloading a long time and still learn. I consider people like you and Erik Cortina to be experts. But I must admit, when I watch his videos, your videos, and others discuss their process and the variations, and sometimes there is quite a bit, I ask myself, are they all correct? I saw where E. Cortina commented in one of his videos that he never cleans anymore and does not like to "lube anything" - the necks (inside). So now what? If I recall correctly he mentioned that the fired case neck carbon acts like a lube but you're saying that once you anneal that fired case the inside and outside neck get a different texture that changes seating forces. Clearly you both know what you're doing and my process the last 25 years has been nearly the same. But the first 10 years (35 total), I always cleaned first in corn cob media, then annealed. But back then we didn't have all force measuring tools we have today.
I don’t put any stock in what anyone else is doing or whether someone thinks my way is “right.” Want to know who’s right? Go do, and you’ll find out quick, if you’re meant to. 👍
@@primalrights That's exactly what I've done. I feel pretty good about my way. It's worked to my satisfaction for quite some time. But always open to learn if I can.
Okay, at 2 minutes in: I anneal after depriming and cleaning but before sizing and neck expanding... let's see if I'm right.
I seem to be right about that, but you can bet I'll be switching to nylon brushes for neck cleaning. Thanks for a very important lesson... BTW, I never aspired to riches or notoriety. I place value on learning, so make that lessons!
Love your scripture reading and comment
I deprime only, clean, anneal, lube and resize , and mandrel size -.002, gives me very consistant seating preasures.
I absolutely love this channel!!! The fact you read a scripture from the Bible is awesome 👍👍🔥🔥. Do you custom build rifles? Also could u give me your opinion on a 18 to 20 inch 22 creedmoor?
We offer custom builds. 22 creeds are awesome in every length.
Does cleaning the brass after sizing introduce any issues with case mouth rounding? Could it potentially dent case mouths or otherwise alter the shape of the brass in any way? I have always sized after cleaning, and then loaded powder and seated bullets.
A very bad tumbling op could theoretically cause mouth peening. My method with our Primal Rice, does not damage anything. It only helps!
Thanks Greg. Very powerful message and very well articulated too.👍 What tumbler do you recommend to use? Thanks and God bless.
I like the Thumler UV-18.
@@primalrights OK. I’ve been looking for that. Seems hard to find.
@@primalrights I checked everywhere and they were sold out everywhere. But, I just found a good used one and pulled the trigger. 👍 Thanks!
Hey Greg is the primal rice different then the original medium grain premium rice you first did the rice cleaning with?
Yes. Ours goes through processing to optimize its use in this role.
Now I'm a little confused. What is your normal order of operations? Shoot/be awesome/, anneal, clean, size, clean in different media??
Really enjoy your videos. Hugely valuable information on reloading.
I happen to be a Buddhist and though I come at my spiritual beliefs from a somewhat different direction I still find the "morality" section valuable and thought provoking.
You are doing good work. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
So nice of you!
As I understand it, annealing or the brass brush makes the surface rougher. Cleaning or the plastic brush polishes the surface so that the setting resistance is reduced and becomes more even. My question: what happens if the sleeves are cleaned in an ultrasonic bath after annealing? Greetings from Germany
I do not recommend ultrasonic on brass for any reason.
Oxidationsprozess. Vergleichbar: Wenn ich bei Hülsen von Lapua nach der ersten Verwendung , die Hälse mit Stahlwolle reinige ist von der bläulichen Oxidschicht nicht mehr viel zu sehen. Diese sind aber nach dem glühen mäßig poliert worden.
@@primalrights why?
Great video. Off the topic, is that cell holder on the front of your trickler i see in the background? Thats an awesome addition if it is, do you sell these?
It’s a RAM mount arm with phone holder screwed to the wall.
Prior to watching ths video. My first step is annealing, Then I size/trim, Then I tumble off the lub. The last thing I do before re-priming is chamfer the case mouth.
Sorry to mess up the comments field...
But do you have videos on load development in regards of powder and seating dept tuning .
I have not looking through all videos , just scanning the video headlines..
I know a bunch of techniques, and have tryed most of them, and mostly they work if you follow them , I just wonder what You use ?
Regards from Sweden 👋
I probably missed it somewhere but when do you trim?
After sizing and tumbling.
Watching your brass tumble in rice it looks like you added dryer sheets? I have used them myself in the past. However I'm getting buildup on the outside of the necks and case rim. This buildup resembles wax. I am tumbling for up to 12 hours straight though.
I rarely need to tumble for more than 2hrs in Primal Rice. Never more than 4hrs.
@primalrights I'm using Nishiki brand you suggested a while back. Guess I'll cut the time back.
Thanks for your sharing of knowledge.
What about freshly anealed brass from the manufacturer
They almost all tumble it or otherwise remove the oxidization.
After watching this Im confused about exactly what your recommended order of operations is, other than anneal first
Maybe that's because the focus of the video was: Anneal first.
@@primalrights What is the order of operations beginning to end that you recommend?
There are other videos on my channel that have gone over this previously. I'd encourage you to watch them. I'll also be putting out a condensed video on it in the future.
What are you using to anneal?
Does decapping as the first step then annealing screw up this process?
Not at all. I use a universal decapping die first, then anneal. If you happen to clean your brass and prefer the spent primers to stay so as to help prevent media from getting stuck in the flash hole, you can anneal, clean, then decap.
It can. Not all decappers are created equal. Some can damage necks and mouths.
I guess I should have qualified my first comment. I use a universal decapping does that doesn't touch any part of the case except punching the spent primer out. This does not affect the process.
What stage do you deprime ?
Do you add wax to your rice?
We don’t have a rice shortage now do we?
👻☕️ boo-latte 😉 jk
Thx for info process.
Don't you think the black dirty spots on the neck Will create hotspots when you anneal.
Not that matter in any way.
what about wet tumbling brass
Worst process in all of handloading.
I was curious about this as well. What does wet tumbling with stainless pins do to degrade the accuracy??
It cleans the neck ID to a super clean finish. No lubricity. This is horrific for bullet seating.
@@primalrights Thanx for the reply. I do lube necks with graphite before expanding with a mandrel and then load and seat. I would be curious as to how this works compared to your method
Yikes, had no idea this was a religious platform! 👎
Religion has nothing to do with it.
@DStein-jn9ls
1 day ago
Great information. And i echo the previous statement "thank you for being bold with your faith!" i need to work on my being BOLD