Swiss 1929 Simplified Luger (Yes, Swiss and Simplified)
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2019
- / forgottenweapons
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Switzerland was the First Nation to adopt the Luger as a service pistol, and they purchased them DWM in Germany from 1900 until 1914. World War One stopped deliveries, of course, and after the war the Swiss opted to begin their own production at Waffenfabrik Bern. These Swiss Lugers have become known as the model 06/24 by collectors, and were made until 1933. During that time, Bern was looking for ways to simplify and economize their production, and these efforts came together with the development of the Model 1929. It actually entered production in 1934, and was made until 1947 with a total of about 28,000 made for the military and about 1,900 made for the civilian market.
The main mechanical change to the 1929 pattern was a lengthening of the grip safety. Other changes included simplifying the profile of the front strap of the grip, removing knurling and serrations on the controls, and only serializing four parts. A production date stamp was also added to the inside of the frame, however.
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The Swiss engineer upon finishing the simplified Luger was on the verge of a mental breakdown... his supervisor upon seeing this threw him a bone and let him put that extra pin in the magazine floorplate 👍
Hahaha
@@Streamcatcher That extra pin is actually very usefull. I got an original magazine from 1916 that spent decades in the magwell. The wooden base plug now basicly pivots on the single pin since the wood has shrunk and the constant pressure pushed kept pushing it down. Now the hold open doesnt really work with that magazine, it only works somewhat reliably when you push in the base plug. Wouldnt have happend with the second pin
@@thrifikionor7603
The Swiss simplified and cheapened something? Where are The Swiss, and what have you done to them?
Clearly some sort of dark sorcery is at work here.
Needs more views and likes.
👍👌👌
Simplified for mass production not because they wanted it to be cheap but that's a pros of it being mass-produced, lower cost. lugers originally were too finicky and hand fitted so the Swiss try to fix that problem. It's also not loved for being in .30 cal
Jajajajajaja
@@That_NJ_guy r/whoooosh
To put things into perspective: The 1929 Luger was finally replaced by something cheap and easy to make: the P210
Cheap? My last Swiss 210 cost me $2100 used!
@@33Luger Thats his point
@@33Luger #woosh
Ahahaha nice one
The very best of the variation of the Browning tilting barrel pistol
Simplified Swiss Luger?
Wait, that's illegal
There actually isn’t any way of saying “reduced machining time” in Swiss.
CHI È QUEL MONA CHE SBATTE LA PORTA!
@@tankadar No nessuno, GUN JESUS, no nessuno!
GESTAPO OPEN UP
If we make these pistols simpler then we can make our rifles even more complex.
The Swiss complaining about a weapon being too expensive is like the Germans complaining about something is too efficient.
Jawohl !
Or too cubic. Or has three times as much parts as it needs...
Or it should really make you stop and think for a moment about something being so complicated and expensive that even the Swiss were taken aback.
It is too expensive for the Swiss!
Or the British being supplied with to much tea!🧐
I like how they simplify serration on the controlling parts, but keep deep crisp serrated Swiss shield logo.
One has to have priorties
Swiss not making something over complicated, “Science forbids this”
Well that rule was written in German so obviously the French speakers didn't understand it.
@Charlie K , How about watches?
Now it comes with 100 tools inside
Clorox Bleach The law states that we need to have a corkscrew in every gun.
Pretty sure they confused Swedes for Swiss.
My wife is swiss-i have her grandfathers original wartime issue Luger in the original holster. Great gun. Didnt realise that the month/year of manufacture was stamped inside, must check next time i clean it. Thanks for the video, very interesting
Did you fund out the month/year yet?
I looked up the word "oxymoron" on wikipedia, but all I found was a link to this video...
They switched the grip from milk to dark chocolate? Travesty!
I didn't know these existed. Thank you for showing me another old firearm to lust after.
Your comment is displaying as MY comment from another video, until I open the thread. Wtf RUclips?
@@mooeggroll3830 holy crap, mine too!
“Swiss Luger”
Means it comes with a little fold out toothpick and Philips screwdriver
Good joke but no. Lol
That's what that extra pin in the floorplate is.
You forgot about the fold out knife
I am Swiss and I absolutly love this comment section.
And coincidentally I just cam from the range shooting my Luger 1929 in a competion (Feldstich 164 out of 180 possible at 25 Meters)
@toeff7852 50 Meter is still possible, it's btw where I developed my love for the Luger. Got one handed at a Feldschiessen, and managed to get the card at 50 Meters
Germans: This is ze pinnacle of german engineering
Swiss: Hand me my army knife
I am so gona steal this quote, thank you Sir
Germany: *crafting of firearms becomes banned*
The Swiss: "Fine, i'll do it myself"
Forged by the dwarves of Moria and folded 1,000 times...
I'd never even given any thought to Lugers having that "toe" at the bottom of the grip. But damn, it makes them dramatically less attractive to remove that tiny feature.
The extractor claw is also a bit beefier compared to an 00/06 or 00/06W+F (NOT 06/24). The simplifications brought costs down significantly from 225CHF per pistol to 160CHF.
Plus the cam shape that the toggle rides on is a bit different. Maybe to be a bit "softer" on the toggle, or simply as a manufacturing simplification.
Sure it is a "Swiss Simplified" Luger. Though the history is convoluted. My head is spinning trying to figure out the reason why the Swiss made the Luger over any other handgun. So this is still very Swiss.
Better then their revolvers, just seemed the best available, other then Luger the only good choices were Brownings or Steyr
@@nickerickson7902 Hey I am not saying they did nothing wrong. Though it is Swiss. When is anything simple?
It was 1899 when they started looking. What else was out there other than revolvers? C96, C93, Bergmanns..
@@skepticalbadger oh, im thinking 1900-1906 good point
Yeah, being a first mover can suck; just ask the French... *cough* M1886 Lebel *cough*
Every now and then I find myself bingeing on this channel. Theres something so interesting about the history of different guns. The design, engineering, the personalities that develop them, theres so much to get into.
Simplified Swiss Luger!? Gott im Himmel how is that even possible?
Two words. Random. Mutation.
Don't worry, Colonel Furrer 'redeemed' himself by designing the Swiss Army's first submachine gun; the absurdly complicated and expensive MP 41/44. With a toggle-lock!
Making the grip safety bigger was good, but the thing about the open-sided version was that all you had to do to clean it out was scoop quickly down the side. The newer grip requires disassembly or a lot of water being poured through the little holes awkwardly. A minor consideration also is that when gripped, the palm of a right-handed person covers the open side of the safety and if dragging yourself along the ground with a gripped pistol, you would be placing the gun down on its left side anyways. A real improvement would have been to enclose it completely.
Swiss? SIMPLIFIED!? The end is near
I mean they would make the p210 afterwards...
@toeff7852 the machining required to make a p210 isn't quite easy to do for a browning action. It's an excellent firearm but I wouldn't recommend it be a service handguns but that is what the Swiss do. It's more of a target shooting handgun and this is why it is still loved today. The German are the same but I at least enjoy Swiss arms, I don't have much experience with German arms.
Imagine the Swiss making something simpler than the original design... *brain explodes*
It's not simpler, it's MORE EFFICIENT.
Yankees ego
I love every video from "fireplace guy's" collection!
Great work Ian! I will definitely be buying 1 or 2 soon and now I have great information that I can trust. Thank you for your excellent research and excellent delivery of the relevant information!
I love nerding out over Lugers, Mouser C96s & Walther PP/ PPK pistols, & Ian's vast knowledge is a pleasure to listen to & watch. Great channel Ian, keep up the great work mate.😎👍🏻
I love that black bakelite version more than probably any other Luger I've ever seen. It's a badazzs Luger. No fancy stuff. Simple machining. No checkering. Straight black. Just works. Kind of the antithesis of most lugers.
Just an absolutely great breakdown of the history behind this firearm. This is why I sub to this channel.
4:45 I heard that Ian, now I know your secret.
Your'e a time travelling, gun-collecting wizard that practices salvation on the side. I'm onto you.
Yes please. Ian please lean into this persona
By far the best I've seen on the subject. Thank you!
As ALWAYS, another great vid, thanks Ian !!
Shooting mine every year at the "Tir en campagne" with great results.
That is a nice collection of old lugers there, and even holsters I hope someday to be able to own one of those.
Most favourite gun ever made. Just the look and feel is incredible.
The checkering as you call it is called knurled in engineering knurl , knurling , knurled .
Just so that you know coz I hear you say all sorts for this patterning and it grins my ear m8 !!!
You sir are the G.O.A.T. of guns and ammo !!! Keep up the excellent work Gun Jesus !!!
Always a thumbs up on me on every video !!!
I love my 06/24 luger. Very finely crafted handgun!
Fireplace friend has an amazing collection.
Well the sig pro SP 2009 was a simplified M75 (P220) based design that cut the cost in half & made it more reliable at the same time. It's an almost Forgotten Weapon made by the Swiss at SiG in the late 90's & is my absolute favorite weapon of choice.
That red plastic. I have seen it in the (german) Arriflex 35mm film camera (of about the same time period) used in a sacrificial gear, so when the film jams, it would not mash all the internal gears pushing the film. Interesting.
Such beautiful pistols
Thank you , Ian .
I did enjoy it. Thanks Ian
Nice info, Mine is a Military one from 10.1939 in the 57*** serial range.
I have the same book shown on the side, actually signed by Mr. Bobbia.
He gave a very interesting conference in Mendrisio in 2007 on the toggle system.
I have been drinking this evening and I don't think I'll be able to keep this straight in my head later.
Man, fireplace guy never fails to provide the goods
S works for quite a few contries more then just those tree. The nordic contries for one , Italy, Romanie, Bosnia, Croatia, and if you just meant language largely spoken, works for Spanish aswell . :)
I'm gunsmith on Swiss Army and the Swiss emblem on the top is the Logo for WaffenFabrik Bern.
Likewise, you can see W+F for Waffenfabrik Bern on guns after ww2.
All Swiss weapons is so wonderfull. I like to sit on chair and just watch... disassemble or use it :D
Swiss simplified is an oxymoron but I love anything made by the Swiss, especially their straight pull rifles.
My K31 agrees.
@@thechilledonion9313 Did you find the troop tag under the butt plate as I did?
Realy they had straight pull rifles ? I only know we had them in austria
@@l.h.9747 Yep mousqueton k11 & k31
@@astokras2877 i have my grandfather's 31 in top condition and damn does it shoot smoothly
I wonder if that red rubber was the same as the stuff used on the Schmidt-Rubin bolt handles?
Cavasite is also known as SRBF (synthetic resin bonded fabric) or TUFNOL. I believe it’s a bit like the Duriplast they used to make Trabant body panels out of.
It’s still commercially available so someone could potentially restore one, though I don’t know how easy it is to work with.
The Swiss have always had a habit of modifying foreign firearms. Remember the Swiss Peabody rifle or the SVT-40? Heck even the STG 57 was a roller-delayed blowback and the SIG550 was inspired by the AK-47.
Hold on. Taking inspiration like the stgw57 and stgw90 is completely different from modifying foreign fire arms. Don't know if you just can lump both into the same thing like that
@@lucariolps277 Just have a look on the SG550 bolt. It's an AK. I agree on the stgw57 tho.
toeff7852 In what way is the Stgw 57 a mediocre rifle? It‘s big and heavy but well made, very reliable and accurate.
@toeff7852 I have no idea what you are talking about. I used the Stgw 57 in Winter and Summer in the service and never had a single problem.
@toeff7852 The problem with the Stg57 is that it was trying to fill 3 roles in 1 weapon, LMG, precision rifle (DMR?) and anti-tank grenade launcher, it was heavy, it was expensive, but the full auto performance blew anything else on the same weight category out of the water and there was nothing short of recoiless rifles or rocket launchers around that could compete with the swiss rifle grenades.
Delicious, delicious Bakelite. The most aesthetic kind of furniture there is.
What? Swiss? Simplified? Not over-engineered? HERESY!!!
Excellent timing for the spring popular vote that takes place on sunday ! The swiss people will be voting on a (light) gun ban.
This video makes me happy, thanks Ian. Proud owner of the 06/29 myself, from Geneva.
By the way, we call them Parabellum, here, not Luger.
Also, "ch" is pronounced "sh" in german, so Sicherheit is something like "zisher-hite". (And Mannlicher is *not* pronounced "man-licker"...)
Golly, Ian. I wish I had what it took to do what you do. Even so, I’m blessed. With a wee bit of experience, and an undying interest.
I will be selling all my firearms soon, but will get to enjoy rentals at a nearby shooting range (full-auto, even).
Best Wishes from Hogtown, Florida.
g0679 - bummer having to sell your babies. Will you be selling locally or with an auction house or perhaps online commission style through Gun Broker or another seller?
Electric Hellion
Broker.
They may be simpler, but they're still beautiful. 😁
Oil the damn holsters! As a saddler, I can see that leather is thirsty!
What do you use for leather?
@@That_NJ_guy If you don't want to buff it: a good quality leather oil, or at the very least saddle soap. Personally I prefer both. If you want to buff it you need a leather grease with carnauba wax or similar. If you oil leather it will be neigh on impossible to ever buff it again.
The civilian holster may have a little felt strip and different colors but it doesn't have rivets in high stress areas like the military holster does.
That safety change to a S is definitely simpler then the machined track on the original Luger. The s is a simple stamp, the other requires an expensive end mill that's prone to breaking under modern computer control.
I have a 1924 Swiss Luger. Love it !!!
I really wouldn't say that the Swiss "simplified" the Luger, more like they made the production of the Luger more efficient, simplification was a byproduct of this.
There, that sounds more "Swiss-like".
I really weep that there aren't any more toggle locked pistols today. The design is absolutely beautiful.
The tiny spring behind the grip safety on my 1929 broke and I was gutted, I then made one out of memory foam hidden behind the safety, it cannot be seen and it works better than the original.
These are such pretty pistols
It was with one of these Luger P06 that a crime was committed in the French Alps, near the border with Switzerland, on the road from the village of Chevaline south of Lake Annecy, in September 2012, where a British family of Arab origin of three people and a passing French cyclist were murdered. Two children in the family survived. 25 rounds of 7.65 caliber were fired. The weapon was identified as a Luger P06 because a piece of the stock broke off when one of the victims was hit on the head with the handle of the gun. The killer has not been identified and the weapon has not been found.
Cool video thanks bos
The Luger has long been one of my favorite pistol designs. Not necessarily for mechanical or operational reasons, I just find them beautiful. Now, I like the later-production WFB Lugers even more than German P08's.
Darnit, Ian, now I want a Swiss Luger. Do you have any idea what those cost?! People want $150 for a Swiss CLEANING ROD!
All this got me really curious as to how much it would cost to obtain a functioning Luger (in any caliber, any year)
*Looks it up*
Guess I'll continue not owning one.
Looks like they also deleted the lanyard loop, which represents a surprising savings in machining costs, I'm sure.
What was the point of thee half-moon trigger on the original?
4:46 confirmed he his either immortal or a time traveler no one will ever know because this video is a year old
I didn't know the Swiss made BLACK WIDOW Lugers!!!
Well the grip safety was not exactly an improvement I'd say. On the one side, it really makes it harder for dirt to get under the safety but on the other side it makes it much harder to diagnose and clean when it happens.
Hell if it showed up in my local gun shop, I'd buy it up.
Ian wish you would do one on super mags. 357 445 441 360 dan wesson and so on. People have really forgotten them.
Ian, you're showing some of the rarest things on this channel and I wonder when you will get your hands on a SVU rifle
Probably wouldn't be that long of a video sadly. I don't think SVU's are much more than bullpup SVD's, despite how much I like them.
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 I thought pretty much the same
I used to shoot with a guy who had a Swiss Luger in 7.65 Luger. Though I remember it being virtually sanitised, I believe it only had a serial number in one place, on the back of the toggle and nothing else. He surmised that it was either a parts bin build on a sneaky persons gun.
the luger, so well engineered, even the swiss had to dumb it down.
Just visited the lugerman site..jeeezz....now i understand why it is important to finish college..
Those grips look pretty cool lol
I love the Germanic pragmatism of understanding that going from a 5 digit serial number to a 6 ditto would incur an extra cost and generally be an inconvenience, enough that they would delay such an event until the last possible moment by using every available number in the 5 digit range.
All the memes were already told, so I just watch and enjoy the video.
Ian, you mention the plastic magazine floor plates being broken by dropping on a cement range floor. That makes me think: Of all of the old handguns you've shot in a match (on video, of course), I don't recall ever seeing you compete with a Luger. Have you, and I just overlooked it? If not, please consider doing so.
Additionally this isn’t the only time the Swiss simplified something. They did the same in the K31 they modified their k11 rifles to be more efficient and cost effective while creating a stronger action that maintained the accuracy of the long gewer 1911.
I was expecting modifications to the action and lockwork. That straight frontstrap really looks odd to my eye. When you showed the Luger next to the M49 (P210), I couldn't help but wonder if there was much comment made about the 'weird' grip angle of the new pistol.
Checks prices...
Well, here's another wish list gun
Love the show but you forgot to mention the lanyard loop missing from the swiss unlike the original. Not sure if i spelled that right lol.
Awesome Swiss Lugers !!!!!!!!
S stand for safe in italian too: "Sicura". In most west europe tongues the S and F letters will work.
People want German lugers more because 9mm and WW1 and WW2. I want a Swiss luger for the Swiss collection. Lol
Doesn't matter who made it, Luger are beautiful😍
Man these Lugers look awesome. Simplified or not.
6:35 - Presumably "S" working out for "Sicuro" in Italian as well was probably a more important aspect than for the English word on a gun intended for use in Switzerland...
If you haven't already, can you make a small video about the tokagypt?
Actually never mind. Your videos make the guns prices go up
Here I thought it would be something like they took out the clock.
6:40
_Also italian and every Spanish-like language_
Ian, was there a dimensional change to the frame at the top rear (behind the surfaces which cam open the toggle) between the 06/24 (Bern-marked) Lugers and the simplified versions? One looks shorter (fore-aft) than the other, behind the toggle grips.
>swiss
>simplified
HmMmmMMmmMmmMmMm
The only way to simplify a Luger is to make it delayed-blowback instead of recoil operated. That toggle lock is perfect for that, I never understood why they bothered with a moving barrel.