Are The Yeagerists Right?
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2022
- Is The Rumbling justified? Would you sacrifice the world to save your friends and family or would you sacrifice your friends and family to save the world?
Since the airing of S4 P2 Yeagerists vs Alliance is a big discussion among the Aot anime onlies, who's right and who's wrong? I hope you enjoy the video and don't forget to like and subscribe :)
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#attackontitan #eren #rumbling #yeagerist #alliance #attackontitanseason4 #mikasa #floch #anime #aot #aotseason4 
Развлечения
Who's Edward and who's Jacob
Two of the greatest fictional characters ever written with the best dynamic ever seen
@@Odin69 you're being sarcastic right?
@@Odin69 also, I meant which is which
Jacob is the one that turned into the wolf
If Armin and hange really claim what eren was doing wrong and if they believe they can talk out with rest of the World for peace then why not talk with your own people like yeagrist and people of paradise but , they never try instead of try they just accept we have to kill every member of yeagrist to stop rumbling to me they are doing the exact same thing like eren and rest of world so how can we believe the the alliance and scout in middle of everything to me they think of ourselves to much high mighty even they save the world by stopping the rumbling they are not going to send morally good message to the reader at the end because technically they doing exact same thing like eren committing the genocide against paradise so there action are also not justified in the end .
I'm not sacrificing my friends, family, and my people for a world that hates us.
@T.S. OK so you'll sacrifice the whole world for your people?
With the whole world in AoT being racist and wanting to nuke Paradis, any kind of 'moral grey' the series was going for goes out the window.
@@alexvaughan1013 it's not even the entire world, its marley
@Song Daniels absolutely. Genocide was gonna happen anyway. I rather be one doing it and saving my people
@@UchihaGremory genocide is sugar coating it. it's a mass extinction event and it is not necessary. you're just a bloodthirsty monster if you think extinction is necessary.
The entire worlds leadership declared war on Paradis even after Willy admitted that they are innocent, and people still want to defend the clown alliance. 🤡🤡🤡
The only clown here is you who is unable to use your two brain cells to make one of the most obvious deductions in the world, which is that there are not only Marleyan war criminals outside the walls but countless innocent people, children, babies and adults who just want to live their lives.
What the fuck are you talking about ? He demonized *the entire fucking island;* he confused *ALL* of Paradis for an Eren Yeager whom he didn't even understand & caricaturized; what were they supposed to think ? They were not immune to propaganda !!!! And neither are you...
Exactly 😡
Yeah I'm not hating the alliance just bcoz they are the characters that i liked till season 3 especially Levi but otherwise i COMPLETELY support eren.
@@MrLamontCranston The Marleyans have been getting their revenge for the last 100 years in the story without a peep from Paradis. Eldian ghettos, oppression, turning Eldians into titans. Paradis doesn't even respond to Marley building a port facility to drop hostile titans off onto their island, something that Marley still presently screams about being done to them in the past. Marley's 'call to arms' against Paradis isn't about their race's past ills, it's about Paradis owning oil and Marley desiring it.
The Rumbling isn't about revenge, it's about survival. The organization the Scouts observed in 4x28 were in favor of ending Eldian discrimination in the outside world and their messaging was "Paradisians are evil and should be genocided, all other Eldians have paid for their race's sins". When an organization that should be okay with your race's existence is saying that, there's no middle ground to be reached or peace to be built with the world.
Marley, and by extension the rest of the world when they cheered a declaration of war against Pardis, started the Rumbling when they couldn't accept Eldian's existing outside of their ghettos.
All I'm saying is that I wouldn't just lay down and die if I was a Paradisian. The Yeagerists fight for their right to exist and so that everyone that died for the sake of the Island didn't die in vain. I 100% respect that.
Exactly the people that say the Yeagerists were wrong put them in there situation where there family is in danger just cause of the history of there ancestors and see the things they will do to protect there family.
Seriously bro I feel like thats the one view point they ignore they just wanna live same as eren rather kill others than be killed
Spoiler....
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apparently levi claimed that the people in the scouts atleast didnt died in vain because isayama portrayed it as if they are all in alliance side. levi be like: sasageyo guys, we killed eren, this is what you dedicate your hearts to lmao!
Ok so the right to exist is only valid for those who are inside the island? What a hypocritical bullshit, dude.
@@shadowslayer9988 people these days say the Yeagerist are facist and extremist. But we see them as patriots. The world gave paradis no other options and the Cringevengers did nothing to protect the island being absolute terrorist and war criminals to paradis.
when marley proudly declared war, ready for genocide while people where celebrating and cheering, was the moment that solidified Eren's inocence.
Yeah, people feel bad for the Marleyans, when these people threw parades when sending children to commit genocide themselves! I don't feel sorry for them at all.
and don't forget the first time we are introduced to marley, is literally when they are in the middle of eradicating another people 😂 it's just because isiyama decided to add this cringe of a charachter (Gaby) and make her the most annoying, fucked, cringe, bitch in the entire story.
if he hadn't tried to make other charachters like that relatable noone would've cared and everyone would've been able to see clearly that Eren was in the right the whole time.
100%
One thing that never made any sense about the talking option was that it ignored the reason that Marley invaded in the first place. In the flashback chapter, Armin was opposed to having to use the rumbling at all and merely wanted to talk to Marley and the rest of the world. He thought if they could convince the world that they just wanted peace, then they could resolve their conflict.
Here's the thing though: Paradis had been peaceful for a century, and Marley still attacked them. In Grisha's backstory, it's revealed that advancing military technology was making the Power of the Titans less and less useful. In the future, military power would be determined by machines (powered by fuel). So, Marley then set its eyes on Paradis because it had massive fossil fuel deposits. So, Marley didn't care if Paradis wanted peace. They just wanted the island's resources for themselves so they could maintain their status as a superpower, and so they were never going to stop until the island was under their control.
I'm glad someone actually called out marley. Bc even after finishing the story, I still really think about 2 things really hardly. 1, Marley are hypocrites; they talk about how the "devilish race" used the power of titans to destroy their home but they themselves are actively colonising other countries using that power. 2, it's been centuries since the walls were built. If the founder wanted to start the rumbling, he would've by now. For me personally, all Marley did was provoke paradise by breaking down their wall. They force eren's hand. Anyone can say anything about the yagerists but, at the end of the day if you had to choose between your loved ones and strangers, you would pick your loved ones anytime.
@@ostrichfm3244 exactly bro. I’m not a jeagerist because I’m bloodthirsty for vengeance or I meatride eren. I just believe that Eren had no other choice considering the time and circumstances. If he wanted to save paradis the rumbling it is. (Actually I’m kinda personally sadistic as well and maybe enjoy seeing marleyans die but I’m mainly a jeagerist for an actual reason with logic and not some bloodthirsty emotions. Logic > emotions.)
THANK YOU!!!Finally someone with a fucking brain!
even if marley could not be reasonned with the rest of the world could eren could have atleast tried to reason with the rest of the world or marley but he did not
First of all, they didn't even fucking KNOW that anyone else was outside the walls, for over a century; what kind of "peace declaration" were they supposed to communicate, exactly, you fucking moron ? It's because of this hundred years of *RADICAL* self-isolation that corrupted the outside World's perception & perspective of the nation, & made them complacent
Second of all, Paradis could start using that fucking fuel for themselves, as leverage & a natural advantage; again, you fucking moron
Marley is a hypocrite with their "Eldians are evil" meanwhile using Eldians as weapons
All for their own power over the rest of the World. The whole point of attacking Paradis wasn't because of the Rumbling threat, it was the oil rich reserves underneath Paradis that would ensure Marleys power. They used the threat of the Rumbling as an excuse the wipe out Paradis so they could maintain their power...
@@Matty_B0y Also wasn't their whole mission for Marley to gain the Founding Titan and use the rumbling anyways to conquer the remaining lands to expand their Marlian Empire?
Like Marley was gonna do it first, and now when the tables are turned we're supposed to be against Eren?
@@JarenLemon It’s been a good while since I read/seen the Anime etc, but if I remember correctly, taking the Founding Titan was “phase 1” of Marley’s ultimate goal. Marley wanted the oil reserves to fuel their military power as the rest of world was creating weapons to actively fight against Titan power. So having the Founder would do 2 things for Marley, 1, it would stop the Rumbling when Marley invaded Paradis for it’s oil reserves, and 2, it would also give them a “Trump Card” against the rest of the world should they have another uprising etc…
@@Matty_B0y magath said the era of titans is over almost and the only way for them to still rule against other nations is through the founder.
and resources in paradis is 2nd option
Here's the thing:
The problem w/ the 50 year plan is that it was based on the idea that the partial Rumbling would be enough of a deterrent against the world attacking Paradis. However, this isn't guaranteed. As Floch correctly points out, if you destroy only part of the world w/ the Rumbling, the rest of the world will take vengeance on Paradis. And w/ the way technology and anti-titan weaponry was advancing, it was only a matter of time until even the full Rumbling wasn't enough of a deterrent against attack.
Zeke's euthanasia plan has the same flaw. It was based on the idea that the fact that Eldians would die anyway would deter the world from killing them all off. But again, this wasn't guaranteed. Jean correctly points out that the entire population of Paradis would be old people within 60-70 years, so what's going to stop the world from just attacking them then? And using a partial Rumbling has the same problem as the 50 year plan.
The tragic reality is this: What Eren's doing is the best option for the people of Paradis. It's just horrifying.
Exactly
Yea I remember flock saying that but no one believes me when I bring it up, could you tell me the ep when that happened if you remember?
@@romhacher5160 It was the episode where the Alliance is trying to steal the ship. Floch mentions it in order to rally the Yeagerists to keep fighting.
@@BenMedia7 thanks I appreciate it
YES😊
Jean once said that none of this wouldn’t have happened if they wouldn’t have broken down the walls and have eren’s mom eaten by a titan. Jean was right in that scene and he understood eren more than his so called best friends armin and mikasa.
Mikasa and Armin have got to be the biggest concussion causing headache inducing characters ik rn
Nah grisha still would have passed the founder and attack titan to eren and he would have learned everything from past memories and see a future of himself doing sum
@@joshuapena4684 fr bruh they just do a U-turn and destroy their own island
@@kairevenge9041 grisha got the attack titan because all of them share memory, you clearly see at the end s3 that kruger was waiting all those years to give the attack titan to grisha to have eren have it because they broke the wall, in snk futur have impact on the past so maybe if they didn't broke the wall eren didn't need to go as far so the attack titan might have take a different path
@@skaloniannoob601 doubt it eren would have stepped on the world either way
I am 100% on the side of the Yeagerists. The world would never allow the people of Paradis alone.
The fact that, in the last chapter, we see planes bombing the island somewhere in the future clearly shows that the 20% of the world's population that survived the Rumbling eventually grew strong enough to attack Paradis. And the fact that the city that was bombed was never rebuilt heavily implies that the war ended badly for Paradis.
Future generations of Paradis had to suffer because they stopped Eren.
Thats a really ambiguous time skip, in truth we can only spectulate how long, but educated guesses put it as 100, or maybe 150 years later. Meaning, Erens immediate friends, Mikasa, Armin etc would have all most likely died of old age, before Paradis was ultimately wiped out by the world.
@@Matty_B0y Eren wants to save all of Paradis and the rest of the world is already launched their counter attack
@@prestongarvey57 and they rightfully do so
And roughly 2 billion people had to die because they didn’t kill Eren sooner as they should have.
@@Matty_B0y Isayama confirmed the conflict never went away, and its implied that it was still the alliance's lifetime
[Spoilers] I saw many people who read the manga of aot who were on the alliance side, and when they saw the ending, Paradis were bombed by the whole world even though they can't turn into titans anymore. And when they saw that, they said, "I wish Eren just finished off the whole world if I knew that would happen."
Anyone on the Alliance side is an idiot. Full stop
I mean they were bombed because of the rumbling Eren killed 80% of humanity.
@@levia9349 declaration of war season 4 episode 5
Wow imagine getting the entire ending completely wrong.
@@levia9349 A lot of people (mostly marleyans) still hated the Eldians. Rumbling was necessary as Paradis was going to get wiped off the face of the Earth if not
Imagine: you are in an indigenous culture never heard of Marley or titans, then Eren shows up
give back money and land to the indigenous of the americas.. you european devil
Do the alliance really think that the people of world would just forgive the paradise if they try to save the rumbling ?
That's naive thinking
@@dovahkiin2206 it's not
@@VergilEdits no, I mean I'm agreeing with you. What the alliance is thinking is naive thinking
@@dovahkiin2206 oh I'm really sorry if i sounded rude. I thought about it and the rumbling was the only way cause
1 : Eldians cannot coexist with the world
2 : the outside world really hates paradise and want them dead
3 : talking wouldn't help them
4 : wouldn't the remaining of the world hate paradise even more after the rumbling ??
5 : Floch and the yeagerist were out of options, they wanted to keep their friends and families safe
@@VergilEdits yep you're right. There's no way people will accept the alliance, especially since they're partly the reason the rumbling started (not literally, but they don't know that)
Both the ways are right , but eren really sacrificed everything , he sacrificed himself , his parents , his happiness , his humanity just for his friends and for eldians and still they oppose him , that really sucks.
Cuz they are his friends, why wouldn’t they try look for a different alternative where they can avoid the deaths of millions plus their best friend. Also most of it wasn’t revealed to them until the very end. And finally, Eren sacrifice everything because that’s his will, it still doesn’t mean you can reject that choice
Okay first of all he wanted them to stop him, secondly he also scarified the lives of billions of *other people* as well. Being a tragic character doesn’t make you right.
No spoilers. His sacrifices will hurt even more when you see what happens in the end.
@@Ismael-kc3ry LMAO. Paradis was bombed either way after 100 years of the rumbling even though the Eldians don't have the ability to turn into titans anymore and when the people who saved the people from Eren were all Eldians. The genocide of Paradis still happened, it was just delayed for 100 years. Remember that Willy fired up the whole world to wage war against Paradis and before that, the rest of the world don't even want to have any peace talks with the Island Eldians.
@@jalen2287 okay and?
"I rather betray the world rather than let the world betray me"- Cao Cao
King Floch did what he had to do and so did Eren.
King floch have erwin soul
And that's why he and Eren died and Paradis still got destroyed
@@willisstillhere8846 I really wished the OG ending where Eren wins, was the final and canon one....
No eren was a moron in the end
Complete character assassination
Is weird how floch was the character that made the most sense, wtf
He was right, but he was becoming a tyrant, trying to control with fear
Mikasa:"There's only so many lives I can give a damn about."
Mikasa should have been j
Yaegerist I am an eremika shipper but I do support eren that’s what her should have done
I feel like if I was in Paradis' Situation, I would have no empathy for the outside world, and after all, Why would I? They did absolutely nothing but spend their time torturing your race, and trying to commit genocide on your friends, family, and neighbors, Also Mikasa and Armin aren't necessarily killing Eren to save the world, They're killing him to save his soul, because they don't want him to have to bear the burden of having destroyed the world.
The outside world had innocent people who had nothing to do with Eldians or had any intent to harm Eldians. And yes Mikasa and Armin are killing Eren to save the world because they don’t believe in mass genocide even if it is to save Paradis.
The people of paradis were completely innocent of any wrongdoing, so why do they have to die while everyone treats them live they are the evil ones?
@@sevonsounds9663 They shouldn't, any more than the innocent people of the outside world should have to die for what their governments may or may not hae done. That's why I support the idea of a partial Rumbling to destroy the rest of the world's militaries, and then forcing nations like Marley to dismantle themselves. They're implied to be vast, multi-ethnic empires, so if those ethnicities are liberated by Paradis, they'd then have mainland allies, and they'd be the only ones allowed to openly remilitarize.
@@CABRALFAN27 the rest of the world including Marley saw paradis as evil, they mentioned that eldians are treated worse than in Marley, sounds like the whole world is an enemy so a partial rumbling doesn’t solve the problem as we see in the manga that paradis is bombed way later anyway
@@sevonsounds9663 It doesn't sound like the rest of the world is an enemy when you stop looking at nations and start looking at people. Kiyomi, Onyankopon, a significant part of the anti-Marley volunteers, and that's just the adults. There are also children, some of whom aren't even old enough to have a concept of what Paradis is. And it's not like we aren't meant to be thinking of them, either; Why else would Isayama have put so much emphasis on Halil and Ramzi, or that baby being pushed off a cliff?
My point is, you can destroy the nations of the world without literally genociding everyone who lives within them. Assuming it was even the outside world that bombed Paradis, that wouldn't have happened if they'd had the threat of continuing the Rumbling to fall back on, not to mention other allies like I mentioned in my comment.
Leaving spoilers out of it and future eren out of it, let me put it very simple. If a mob decided to slaughter my mother for simply existing and having some history regarding that mob, in which her ancestors killed or enslaved a bunch of people, that mob wouldn't have any right to attack my mother. I personally wouldn't hesitate to use a rocket launcher to deal with the entire group, because there is no middle ground or time to think etc. They chose violence because of history, same goes for eren and his soldiers. The world chose violence and were the ones to declare war on them. It is completely irrelevant what's ethically correct or wrong here, what matters is what you decide on at the end of the day. There are other franchises like halo, in which genocide is just another tuesday
the problem is eren did not just go after the mob he went for the mobs loved ones too and children of the mob anyone slightly related to the mob regardless if they had anything to do with the mob's actions
@@tlotlosethapelo7954 eren's answer is absolute freedom of oppression and any possibility of a future conflict. He doesn't leave anything to chance.
@@tlotlosethapelo7954 Problem is, he didn't go after the innocents; the innocents are intermingled with the mob. Usage of the rocket launcher will result in their deaths too. It's not like the innocents are clearly separated in their own distinct zone. In that take, is it still wrong to defend your loved ones? It's not like you have a high precision weapon to take out only the mob, only a rocket launcher. I personally believe it isn't wrong, but it aint right either. That's life for ya.
@@anthonygarza4653 I don't have a problem with defending paradis and I understand why he used the rumbling I don't agree with it cause the sacrificing historia option was available which most ppl agree was the best option am not saying sit aside and watch everyone die but the historia one gave them time to think of a way to survive the situation
@@tlotlosethapelo7954 that still means live like livestock. Eren might have lied to mikasa regarding his hatred towards her, however, his comments regarding living like kettle were honest. He mixed truth and a lie together to make his lie believable. You're essentially asking eren to assassinate his own character. In the conversation he had with historia he made it clear that he'd slaughter the military police, if they forced historia to become a titan.
I remember when Brownsmagic said it best . They’re okay with coming and destroying Paradis , but it ain’t so fun when the rabbit got the gun ✌🏾👌🏾
Considering one is Island Genocide and the other is Global Extinction... I understand why some fans aren't ok with the Rumbling
@@thalmoragent9344 doesn’t matter the scale. You support genocide either way
@@thalmoragent9344 To be fair, some fans have a very childish sense of morality that only sees things as black and white. Murder is murder, but killing isn't always murder. It depends on the context. Genocide is genocide, but there is a distinct difference between a genocide for the purposes of getting natural resources and ruling the world (Marley) and a genocide for defense against the aforementioned genocide (Paradis).
You wouldn't believe the number of times I have had to explain the Social Contract theory, Common Sense by Thomas Paine, and being under duress and what that entails only to be ignored by them saying, "Genocide is still wrong," essentially repeating the same argument without room for debate or even offering up other moral theories in return.
I find it odd that most people seem to default to a utilitarian point of view, where the numbers matter more than the people themselves. I'm assuming that most people here come from countries like the USA or the UK, so you would think that given the history of our enemies throughout time that they wouldn't use that as their reasoning. Degradation of society and all that, I guess.
@@anthonygarza4653
True, but when Eren goes after places that didn't declare war against Paradis, or in the case of Hizuru, was allied with Paradis (as well as the Eldian ancestors in the Old Eldian Empire) you realize it's not even straight forward.
The concept is the same so, if both sides are fighting for survival, look at the consequences. Eren wins? That's 90% of the world's Ecosystems and species wiped out.... if Marley wins? A single island is destroyed, as is the existence of Titans. Even Eren himself in the Manga realized this comparison, so it's not like Isayama hasn't portrayed this train of thought as well.
So while I agree with you that many only see the Rumbling as Black and White despite all the gray involved, I also understand that there are still those that don't but still default to that "Utilitarian view"
So, reasons aside, if one was only told who was fighting who, what would they choose? A Island sized Genocide, or a Global Extinction Event? 🤔 Cause only reason I understand and can sympathize with Eren even as he's Rumbling is because he's doing it to save his people, so obviously he's not doing it cause he wants too, but so many fans are rooting for Eren without understanding the weight of everything.
The fact Eren feels more upset about the Genocide of the world than some of his supposedly "loyal fans" says a lot. At least the Warriors are fighting for their own folks and the people/world they know of, even if much of it hated them, cause they're not gonna have good lives at the hands of the Yeagerists either on Paradis, and even Jean despite being a empathetic guy still sees that it was either Paradis or everyone else.
Still, the Scouts, particularly Hange all fighting and killing their comrades was messed up to see, particularly Mikasa's spree. I mean, even the Warriors had more remorse than she did when they were fighting the Scouts, and it's made me hate the Paradisian Alliance Members more than anyone else at this moment.
(That said, glad to have an intellectual conversation with someone on the Rumbling, its refreshing that there's those of us who can dive deeper into this without devolving into basic arguments.)
@@thalmoragent9344 Agreed in that regard, though I would like to mention that Hizuru shouldn't be regarded as a true ally of Paradis. It was mentioned multiple times that they were there only to exploit Paradis. Help from them was contingent on Paradis remaining the Island of Devils to the world and they wouldn't help with forming trade relations (which of course would improve normal relations).
A big problem of deciding what is right and what is wrong in this show is that we simply do not know about the different countries and their cultures. Based on their actions, we can say that the leading government of Hizuru are greedy people, but that obviously doesn't extend to the people of Hizuru, or at least every person. This was made clear during the Falco, Gabi, and Kaya scene at Kaya's old house. That makes it hard to determine the actual number of "innocents" that would be killed.
My only argument that doesn't hold much weight against the destroyed ecosystems is that the Founder has some semblance of power of biology. Yet again there is no actual evidence to support it, but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility to grow a lot of that life back using the Founder (imagine growing a whole deer from a Colossal Titan's foot).
The way I saw Mikasa's killing spree is that she purposely went as hard as she did to scare the rest off; supported by when she didn't chase the fleeing Jaegerists. It's hard to see if she had any remorse or not as she has already hidden her emotions very well. However, even if she had remorse for it, she clearly had no hesitation to start killing. The same goes for the rest of them. Daz hesitated to shoot Armin who wasn't even his best friend yet was someone he cared for, but the moment Conny got the gun from Samuel he instantly used it to kill Daz. To me, it felt like Daz had more humanity in him than Connie.
I agree with your dislike of the Paradisan part of the alliance. Most of all, I dislike Hange. She never gave a good answer to the problem and wasted time by idling, yet complains when someone does provide an answer, i.e., the worst type of person to work with on a team project. Even more so, once it became easier and more beneficial to do so, she started to hide information from the public and stopped letting them decide the course of their life. In short, she started to take their freedoms away just like the old regime.
If you disagree with the Rumbling, your wife has a boyfriend confirmed
dumbass
You will probably end up living alone so you don't get to talk buddy
I’m married lmao
@@marcoslopez127 To a man ?
Marriage is only between a man and a woman, you confused child.
Do people forget that the whole world declared war on an island? Eren waited before transforming at Eldia, he waited to see whether or not eldia and the world would unite against Paradis Island. And when he heard Tybers declaration of war and the whole world cheering, then eren transformed and "started" the war.
My problem with the ending is that this was the clearest cut kill or be killed situation I have EVER seen in media. It's genocide of the people of Paradi vs genocide of the rest of the world. Eren chose his home and his friends/family which I can stand with because it's me and my own before anyone else. Hell! It's my loved ones before me most times.
I said it before and I'll say it again, the world wanted a war and they lost.
no need for genocide. Pretty easy to dismantle Marley without killing billions of innocent
@@adem34hz58 dismantle Marley, and then watch all the other nation that are at war against you come and destroy you
Wait some time and the rumbling isn't even relevant anymore since the technological advancement
Then what
@@randomusername3873 Destory all the military and government bases around the world lmao. cmon man
True
Ramzi sure looked like he wanted to go to war with Paradi.
The yeagerist are right, the only thing that's wrong is the way the marleyans thought it was ok to subjugate Eldian people and force them to become warriors who kill their own people on paradise. Also planes go brrrr with bombs and titans can't do anything.
Lmao inagine getting enslaved and oppressed and enslaved for 2000 years and now people are hating you because you are mad about that
@@nerevarchthn6860 Exactly the point. Some people are just peace loving pussies who are too much of a fucking child to see the wicked ways of our world
@@nerevarchthn6860 Are those eldians responsible for royal government's crimes?
@@basmeenkaur7312 they are
@@nerevarchthn6860 No
W take cause alliance defenders to me makes no other point than “genocide is wrong” and that’s it. I’ve made points and arguments that are true cause it’s in the story, but all I get is headcannon and being called a fascist. In my opinion the reason it’s alot of alliance defenders cause the ending makes eremika canon.
It doesn't matter what they say in the end paradis got nuked and floch was right, 100% was the only way
@@SuperXrayDoc I agree that’s why the alliance is so hypocritical, everything the alliance did made no sense cause paradise got destroyed.
most eremika fans are dumb teens. For them, AoT is baby's first ship and edgy anime. They don't care about the story and greater themes, only fan art and fan fiction and doujinshi crap, or because they think its "adult" without actually contemplating what makes things adult.
"Genocide is wrong" is a mildly valid point, man
@@cris9242 You are right , but the story doesnt provide option. If isayama wanted to prevent this ending or draw our cast a heroes than he could have made it so that they outside world wasn't as hostile. But he did so our character are left with the dumb, moral option or the evil, drastic but successful option.
I’ve always been on the side of the Yeagerists but the part that cemented my absolute HATRED for the alliance was during the port battle where Mikasa and co. butchered their former allies.
Those weren’t nameless fodder that they killed. Remember that after the battle/massacre of Shiganshina the survey corps was down to barely 10 members. Everyone who joined after was inspired by their sacrifice and heroism in not only taking back Wall Maria, but also eradicating the Titan threat.
Only for those very same ‘heroes’ to turncoat and condemn their own people for the sake of a world that openly despises them. At least Reiner, Bertholtd and Annie were always double agents, the alliance are betraying Paradis based entirely on a childish view of the circumstances.
Fuck. The. Alliance.
Not only were the people at the port were ordered to kill the alliance but the Yeagerists killed multiple innocent people in their violent regime change
Deadass Floch killed unarmed volunteers for no good reason. Volunteers that spent 3 years with our cast bettering the island
Facts I always say that if the roles were reversed and paradis was getting destroyed Reiner Annie pieck every single warrior would’ve let it happen I understand the alliance but I cannot support it that’s why I think im not totally for sure but the alliance except for mikasa is not welcome in paradis they’re able to visit for peace talks and everything but they live in the outside world now including Levi
Well FUCK your opinion you xenophobic genocide is justified supporter.
Fuck mass murderers you probably support ISIS and the NAZIS who are just like the Yeagerists
@@jc-1018you realize that the only difference between yaegetists and the outside world is that the outside world had no reason for attacking Paradis in the first place, right? You people keep praising the dept of this story yet somehow have the most basic reading skills about how weird the writing of the last season even was
@@randomusername3873
The outside world absolutely had a reason to attack Paradis.
The official reason was just a lie that only Willy Tybur and his inner circle were privy to the truth of. (That Eren Yaeger and the people of Paradis have committed treason against the peaceful King Fritz and wish to use the Founding Titan to start the Rumbling) The real reason was to establish peace between Marley and the rest of the world and for Marley to be able to have the natural resource to catch up technologically after relying for so long on titans. Also because they had intel suggesting that they were already infilitrated by the Paradis Eldians and because the Eldians could've started the Rumbling.
That said, calling Willy Tybur and his crew "the outside world" goes crazy. Most people don't know Willy Tybur's official reason even, and those who think about Paradis at all think that King Fritz has been a scorned loser waiting any second now to pull the trigger and start the Rumbling for the last 100 years. Most don't think about Paradis, beyond Marley using Eldians to kill them as they have been doing for the past 100 years.
In fact, Marley itself and Paradis are the only places that have been free from the violence of Titans ever. Everywhere else have been constantly attacked by Eldians for 2000 years.
The 50 year plan doesn't work, its nearly identical to what King Fritz did, 'Leave me alone or else', the Rumbling is my choice for this dilemma
Ever since they wanted to sacrifice Historia (their own friend) to do the 50 year plan , they became the traitors and I hated the alliance for that. They’re basically doing what King Fritz did when Ymir died.
The lesson I learned from this as what Isayama also wanted to portray, comes from his favorite visual novel Muv Luv Alternative . This is a quote from Meiya (best girl): While our main objective may be the same… with differing values come differing methodologies
Floch: if eren dies paradis, will sink into a sea of blood. The world will take vengeance on us.
You know what happened in the last chapter paradis destroyed because eren die.
floch was right
Yep
What everyone doesnt get is, it has been imbedded into the worlds mind that paradis is an island of devils, this includes your everyday civilians and kids. There would be no way to target only the militart outposts and expect that the family of the worlds soldiers would accept peace, violence only beget violence. This all started because marley wanted paradis resources and discreetly attacked, the whole chain of events can be traced back to them.
Eren wanted peace by going to marley alone to learn, to adapt to better negotiate, but once he was there he saw how eldians was treated, how the normal populace saw the eldians and he knew there is no way it would end peacefully. For everyone who says eren is wrong, you are condemning your family, friends and your fellow citizens to an eventual war and annihilation of paradis.
He took the only option that was left to him, if only he had seen it through to the very end. Destroy everything, to rebuild to where there is no history or memory of Eldians as devils.
Honestly bro in my opinion I think you’re wording the question wrong. The question shouldn’t be “would you sacrifice the world to save your friends and family or would you sacrifice your friends and family to save the world?” It should be “would you sacrifice the world to save your friends or family or would you sacrifice your friends or family to APPEASE the world?”
Why do I say that? It’s simple man. All the world had to do was f*ck off and leave paradise alone. Think about it. Itachi had to deal with the first questions you asked in the video. The characters in AoT faced a different kind of dilemma. (The question I asked). If the world never made any moves towards paradise then they would’ve never had any reason to attack in the first place. The opposite can’t be said though. And without a doubt i would much rather sacrifice the world to save my friends and family than let ourselves be the sacrificed ones just to appease a wrong world
facts
It’s not just to appease them, yeah it’s mainly Marley's fault that the rumbling happened, but that doesn’t change the fact that their lives are in danger.
You also said that if the world never made any moves against Paradis then it wouldn’t have happened, but it goes back even further than that when Eldians oppressed the Marleyans for 1900 years. If that never happened they wouldn’t have the hatred that they do for Eldians and none of it would have happened. Their not in the right for holding onto the past like that, but the fact is Eldians started it.
@@matcauthon5889 facts
@@matcauthon5889aight You people started the wars that colonized our countries. Let me g3n0c1de you aight?
@@matcauthon5889 You're not understanding. Even if Eldians did stuff 2000 years ago, even Willy stated for a fact that the Eldians now are literally not bothering anybody, and they STILL wanted to genocide them. They only have themselves to blame at that point, because, like OP said, they could just leave Paradis alone and everybody would live peacefully. They chose violence, and got wrecked because of it.
the alliance try to be the heroes while ignoring the fact that by saving the world they doomed themselves and their nation
eren never wanted this he was forced to do it by the racist world he lives in
now of course on the bigger picture eren is a bad person but you gotta ask yourself if you were in his place would you have the guts to sacrifice you friends family and nation?
For the people who say if you support the yeagerists you support genocide ok if you support the alliance you also support genocide let that sink in good video man 👍
Guaranteed genocide of billions of people VS hypothetical genocide of a few thousand. The situation does not seem balanced to me.
@@cris9242 If it came down between my race and everyone else, my race is staying. Simple as that
@@JoseRamirez-ew7vq What a beautiful line, did you read it on the "Main Kampf " ?
@@cris9242 Everyone has a right to fight for their survival. Yeagerists did just that. World forced them to do it.
@@cris9242 just say you’re suicidal bruh lmfao. You rather get killed than fight back
Are The Yeagerists Right?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Y E S.
N O
@@quietopinion9637 they are right so Y. E. S.
@@quietopinion9637 Y. E. S.
in the post-credits scene, it was shown that many years had passed on Paradise and the inhabitants of the island had noticeably grown in development and lived in peace until humanity bombed the entire island and began the cycle of hatred again. That is, there was peace on Paradise until the world destroyed them. There were no conflicts on the island for centuries, until the world destroyed them. Floch was right 👑
Eren Yogurt failed to protect Paradis and turned into a stupid bird so Jean could plow Mikasa. lol, what a cuck!
@@Solaris_Paradox and remember he forgot why he did the rumbling
Both were right. Both options would end the cycle of hate but the yaegarists likely chose the rumbling because they were fighting for their life and the alliance because genocide seemed inherently worse and possibly the scouts didn’t want the innocent people in the rest of the world to experience what they experienced when Marley breached the walls
Lol it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong. It's as Yelena says: "Can't separate violence from humanity."
but eldians are right too tho. which makes their actions even more justified
If I were Eren then I would do the rumbling. I would sacrifice the world that hates us to save my friends and country. The reason why I would do this is because just like Eren I want my friends to live long and happy lives. There is nothing that I wouldn't do for them to reach that.
Hopefully you don't have friends, for the greater good.
@Marco Marco unfortunately for you, I do 😔
@bLackstar this
Explain "Happy" for you.
Here's an option that could have saved everyone. Marley could have just made peace. They could have left the island alone. This would have solved everything.
Yup, if they had send peace missionaries instead of child assassins, maybe they wouldn't be in this situation!
I honestly dont undertsnd why hange wants to stop eren so bad. Thr whole world literally hates their island
None of that justifies killing innocent people
@tagsan ok, it isn't justified. Tell us your plan then. What do you want eldians to do? Lay down their arms and die? When war is declared, throw your morals out the window and prepare to kill. That's the only way to protect those you love.
@@tagsan3834 It also not justifies to kill eldian people on the island. And sending eldians in mainland in ghettos or being turned in a titan.
@@Akxyyyso, you are type of person that agrees with nakam. The organization that sought to kill six million german in vengeance for The Holocaust. Also Jeagerists were literally spouting Lebensraum. You know what? Israel should genocide the world according to logic of jeagerists defenders because every country has antisemitism even in countries with no Jewish population. Should we all including you and your loved ones, every people you know, every innocent children and people should die for sins of the father? Are you okay with that?
Bruhhhh if you don't want eldians to die you also don't want marleyans to die
Eren's actions are 100% justified/understandable.
Personally, I am with the Yaegerists because I've grown up watching the Scouts and Paradis making an effort to fight titans, who we find out are Marleyans.
The main problem I have with the Alliance is that Mikasa, Armin, and Jean, who apparently really cared for Eren just turn on him because Genocide is wrong, which I do agree but they should realize why he's doing it? That's what I don't get. If I was in their position, i'd most probably side with the person who is willing to protect me and my friends and family.
I might be seeing this wrong, but idk. Anyways good video mate.
Manga spoilers
After they stopped eren, how are they so sure that the world won't hate them or attack the paradise again ?
@@VergilEdits read the extra pages of the manga
Spoiler:
The rest of the world forms an alliance and Paradis gets destroyed
The thing is, Eren didn't actually want to use the Rumbling. So when he and rest of the Survey Corps travelled to Marley, they went desperately hoping that a slim chance for peace was possible between Paradis and the World. But of course the world of AOT is cruel, and while they were on the dock, Eren saw just how much Marley hated Eldians and it wasn't just the military, but normal everyday Marleyans too, and acccording to other world building dialogue, the rest of the world had a far less view of Eldians too, going so far as to be barbaric with inncoent Eldians. Lets also not forget it was Marley & the World who declared War on Paradis first. Eren had no other option, it was either attack first and wipe out the world or wait until the world wiped out Paradis. Eren played the only hand he was dealt with.
@@hossainmohammodtoufiq9002 yeah... after more than a century. Considering how twisted AoT world was, more than a century of peace sounds like a victory to me
They are fully aware of the reasons and they also talk about it. But what does it mean? You can understand a person's motives, but you absolutely disagree. I personally would rather die than live the rest of my life knowing that billions of people have died for my safety. It's too much. I would prefer to fight with all my strength to find another solution. They are very intimate and personal motivations, yours is a completely subjective speech.
I remember seeing a video that spoke about the Rumbling, and how the nations of the world of Attack on Titan - from the long disbanded Eldian Empire to the modern nation states like Marley - having something called "A Cup of Sin" Not a religious person myself, but the guy who spoke about this talked about how the Old Eldian Empire willingly drained its cup of sin before it could overflow via the First King of the Walls choosing to disband the Old Eldian Empire and errect the 3 Walls of Paradise 100 years ago. Thus the sins of the Old Eldian Empire can no longer be used to justify the outside world's treatment of the Eldians. Both from those inside the walls who are oblivious to the truth of the world beyong their paradise prison, to the Eldians trapped in the mainland nations who murder, oppress and enslave them for the sins of their ansestors.
Meanwhile modern day Marley is doubling down on all the same mistakes and sins of the Old Eldian Empire via their usage of using 7 of the 9 Titans as weapons of war and conquest. And the fact they choose Child Soldiers to inherit the Titans they are using for such wars makes it even worse. As not only have they enslaved these kids and are using them as cannon fodder and their loved ones as hostages, they've systimatically stole their childhoods from them and made many of them believe they deserved to be treated like the way they've been treated. It doesn't even help Marley's case that they still act like they're the victims of Eldian Tyranny when saide Eldian Tyranny ended over 100 years ago. They chose to perpetuate the same cycle that the First King of the Walls chose to end. They could've taken in and learned from the flaws and mistakes made by the Old Eldian Empire to build something better for themselves. Instead they chose to copy/paste everything they did. Both the good and bad things. Such as using the very Titans that the Eldians used to dominate the world in their time as weapons of war.
They then procceeded to use said weapons of war to launch a unprovoked attack on a nation that has closed itself off from the outside world. A nation whose people spent the last 100 years with no history of what the outside world was like before the Walls were raised. As far as the People of Paradise knew, they were the remnants of the Human Race. Which makes this unprovoked attack even more attrocious. The people that died when the Colossal and Armored Titan broke down Wall Rose didn't deserve to die. The People of Paradise do not deserve to suffer and be slaughtered for the crimes of an Empire they no longer have any written memories or stories of. Everything Marley did to Paradise was no holds bar unjustifiable. And their decision to double down and seek to mobilize the entire world into joining them on wiping out Paradise Island only sealed their fate when Eren Yeager - a man who they helped create - returned all that hatred and bloodlust back to them ten fold.
TL;DR
To genocide?
Or get genocided?
The needs of the many vs the needs of the few but you're the few basically
one thing common with ending defenders argument is they always use civil war excuse as worse! than paradis destruction and their subjugation and genoc1ded
It's not really genocide, it's globacide
Who cares about "right or wrong"? The options are "live or die", the Yeagerists are for "live", so I'm with them.
If the Yeagerists are wrong, then I don't want to be right!
Could it have been possible to cause a civil war on Alliance side or set up circumstances where most of the Alliance would give up and renounce the war with Paradis and Eren could of focused on military targets instead of indiscriminate civilian ones?
A different stragedy with different methods?
Eren still got his retribution against a nation who loved war and expansionism at the cost of innocent lives. I personally believe that Marley didn’t hate Eldia for their abuse but envy Eldia for their power and ability to create a huge empire. Only Marley’s leaders know this truth.
In Castlevania Netflix, when Trevor Belmont told the people that the church was responsible for Dracula’s mission to commit genocide on humans, the people attack all the church priests and bishop. It is like what if a non eldian told the world that Marley attacking Paradis was the reason for Eren’s attempt to completely eradicate humanity outside the walls with the Rumbling.
which is also what grisha and the eldia activists in marley said. that eldians in the past didnt use their titan powers to slaughter marleyans but used their powers to uplift humanity.
imo isayama should have stuck to that in the ending. it def would have made more sense
The Yeagerist vs Alliance debate just reminds me of the Stormcloack vs Imperial argument from Skyrim. People already chose a side and nothing will change their viewpoints. Instead, people will either justify their beliefs, insult the other side, or just side with their favorite characters. This is just another silly debate and I’m all for it.
Here's a question that alliance supporters need to answer. What right do the Marleyans have to exterminate the Eldians? No one outside the royal court on the island ever knew about the rest of the world. Marley could have made peace, but decided to build their own empire instead. They act as if they're completely justified in using the titans, and demonize the eldians for using those same powers. If they had left the Eldians alone, and didn't abuse the rest of the world in the same manner that they accuse the eldian of doing, this situation wouldn't have happened.
Yep
Marley doesn't have the right and neither did Eren. The thing with the cycle of violence is that the one with the biggest gun is always responsible for ending the cycle or not. King fritz had it but couldn't end it, Marley had it but couldn't end it and then finally Eren had it but he also couldn't end it.
@marocainforlife Eren was fighting in self-defense. That is a very different reason than fighting just out of hatred. Marley spent 100 years persecuting Eldians. Then it backfired when they sent the Titan Warriors. Eren has every right to defend his friends, his life, and his home. Marley had 100 years to stop the persecution. They chose violence, and here are the consequences. You are not the victim when you start the fight.
@@joshuasepeda3289 no one was fighting out of hatred. Marley started their plan of invasion of Paradis for the ressources and the power of the founding Titan.
Eldia had 2000 years to stop their persecution and they only did it 100 years ago, and yet they had to be forced into it by the king while at the same time he held the world at gunpoint.
Eren's rumbling stopped being self-defence when he purposely decided to massacre everyone outside of Paradis (involved in the attack of Paradis or not) after instigating them.
Inb4 he attacked only after Willy declared war.
No. Zeke orchestrated the declaration as part of his fake 50 years plan and Eren knowingly followed along. Before he ever even set foot on Marley he already planned on rumbling everyone.
Talking about who started the fight is stupid because technically the Eldians started it first.
@marocainforlife You clearly didn't watch the series. Marley had made peace with the Eldians and then proceeded to persecute the Eldians for the next century. This was done out of hatred. They also started many different wars with other nations and used the Eldians as disposable soldiers. This was done out of hatred. Their so-called reasons for invading were nothing but poor excuses. Everything Marley did to the Eldians was out of hatred.
Genocide is morally wrong, but the rumbling is justified, the world is trying the kill the people of Paradis, so Eren is going to give them what they deserve.
Genocide is FUCKIN EVIL. Marley wanted to Genocide Eldia. Eren just said "not happening". Or did he?!? Inserts chapter 139
@@assasinsjeff Chapter 139 is so stupid
@@commanderscimitar1353 yeah fuck those bastard children
@@assasinsjeff Shut up
Excellent video. Some great points!
floch was right, eren was right, the yeagerists was right, paradis got destroyed, armin resulted to be the biggest hypocrite of the whole aot now !! just because of that annie, he opposed the rumbling, and now u see paradis got destroyed, those hyprocrite alliance members were wrong all the time and floch without having any abilities was able to see the future, WHAT A GOAT !!! i hope haters will understand floch in the end !!
remember his words: "'IF EREN DIES, PARADIS WILL SINK IN A SEA OF BLOOD. THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL TAKE VENGEANCE ON US AND KILL YOUR PARENTS, SIBLINGS AND CHILDREN !! THEY WILL ALL BE SLAUGHTERED ! and thats what happened !
Facts floch>armin
Facts
👑
I don't think people remember that the 50 year plan wouldn't even work because zeke never intended on giving up his plan.
I like this video as someone who loves the ending.. and I think discussions bridging from this is how both sides can see another point of view. One thing I'd say is I think Isayama purposely wrote himself "into this corner" as you mention, because he wants to portray the grim reality of the world and of humans. It's not black and white as we like may like to think, and striving for a better solution than to further the cycle of hatred is what he depicts as the ideal solution, even though it doesn't always work (hence the extra pages). He shows us that two things are fundamental to humanity, the first being that we will always be in conflict with our differences fueling that, and the second being that we will also always strive to find a solution to that based in empathy and understanding.
If it really was down to just those two choices, I don't know what I'd do, but I don't think it is that binary, and at the very least, I don't think it's bad writing for some characters to want to try and find a third option. It makes sense that the pre-Shiganshina scouts, who all signed up to fight monsters in defense of humanity, wouldn't be eager to turn their weapons on their fellow humans, and it makes perfect sense that the post-Shiganshina Scouts, who learned as kids that there is humanity outside the walls and they want to destroy them, wouldn't care as much about destroying them right back.
As an internationalist, in a vaccuum, I'm of course inclined to side with the group that sees and values people as people regardless of nationality or ethnicity, but I'll admit, it gets a lot more complicated when it comes to a question of family. Accordingly, I like that Jean, who, aside from being the closest thing to an "everyman" in the cast, is also the only one to have (Non-Titanized) family on Paradis, is also the one who comes the closest to properly joining the Jaegerists. I could easily see myself having the same dilemma in his shoes, and frankly, I have no idea what I'd do.
That's how I know Isayama created a compelling moral quandry.
In my opinion, more than genocide, Isayama show us how real wars are, how a lot of soldiers must face those decisions single day
Floch did nothing wrong!
I Agree !
He was still gonna kill the Volunteers who helped his people though...
floch is the true hero of paradise
Erwins true successor
Gabi did nothing wrong!
There were no other options. The whole world hates the paradise and wanted to attack paradise just like willy tybur said . Words would save them
If President Zelenskyy had the opportunity to nuke the fuck out of Russia without repercussions, would he be a villain? Not remotely, that’s essentially what the rumbling is, Eren is not evil, war is, you do whatever it takes to end it.
That's a bit different because Russia doesn't want to genocide all Ukrainians.
@@ACORNyMOFO Exactly, Eren is even more justified.
@@ShantyIrishman I agree. If I had to choose between my life and a hundred strangers. I'd choose me .
Are we talking about the guy who tried to bring Poland (and Nato with It ) in War?
Honestly if a Rocket falls on his head I wouldn't be so sad
Wtf
Did we forget that a literal slave goddess chose Eren to lead the rumbling to its conclusion including the plan for them to stop him and establish world piece for the Paradisians to be on top and it showed that peace reigned for atleast 100 years and likely foe much longer due to the populations damage the world faced.
Eren gave a soon to be sex slave freedom and purpose to fight against injustice and trusted him with her life and swore to protect him and be by his side even when he didnt want her their. That kind of devotion does not come simply because he saved her. But because he gave her life purpose and her pursuit for freedom and love in the face of a cruel world.
He did it twice even freeing Ymir from a continued hell of slavery to a currupt bloodline.
Eventually Eren was Reincarnated into a bird for a short period as nothing else could explain the bird helping her scarf.
It's also quite real that they lived 4 years together in happiness while he was in control of the paths. Living with Mikasa.
He became God and tried to do what he could for all the sides he cared about.
The only ones who lost were those that didn't care about him.
It’s an anime it’s not that deep but I’m on erens side
I think that the best way to end this conflict in a satisfactory way for Paradise was to use a small Rumbling and obliterate Marley. From that point, Paradise will try to negotiate again with the world and, if they didn´t accept this, Eren should crush them all. It is similar to the way the United States used the atomic bombs over Japan. First, Hiroshima. If they don´t surrender, Nagasaki, etc
itachi didnt choose to kill his clan only to save the world, it was also to protect sasuke. because sasuke is more precious to him than the world.
Banger content , clear explanation
You just earned a subscriber
Great vid!!
Thanks :)
Eren did the right thing . Armin was so optimistic to think that if they attack a little part it won't destroy their tech to kill titans and this time whole world would attack Paradise together like what happened in future.
Armin's gen lived like a hero but their future gen died due to the terrible decision .
Anti Yeager were a bunch of hypocrites, who chose the people who attacked first , whom they don't know over their friend . That's why Floch was the best from hating Eren and Erwin to taking their wills , like Floch said" Our devil is our only hope" was true
There's one more option. Marley is the one that declared way on paradis, not the whole world. Eren should've used the rumbling to destroy Marley alone, not genocide of the entire world. Correct me if I'm wrong
Willy Tybur is the one saying to go to war against Paradis and the other nations agree with him, the rest of the world not just Marley hates Paradis in fact in season 4 part 1 Udo says that Eldians are treated worse in the other nations outside of Marley
@@Odin69 I see, thanks for the info. Despite that, I still think Eren should've just destroyed Marley only and used the rumbling to defend paradis after that. If any other nation tried to make a move, then take care of them too. After Eren has made an example out of marley, it's doubtable that other nations would be dumb enough to declare war, and if they do, rinse and repeat. Self defense against a war is justifiable, but mass genocide isn't. That's my opinion
@@dovahkiin2206 the unfortunate thing is that they didn’t have the time to just keep defending against attacks zeke only had one more year to live and eren did not want to sacrifice historia
@@vincevergara5520 once the rumbling is activated, it stays activated does it not? It doesn't need the person with royal blood to stay alive, as long as it was already activated, all should be fine
@@dovahkiin2206the founders power can only be used by royal blood or if someone were to make contact with it. Zeke is still in contact with eren which is why the rumbling is happening if zeke were to separate from eren the rumbling would stop.
The point of this arc was to show neither side were right. Both were wrong. In the manga, and spoilers be damned because some folks need to understand the context. The Paradis soldiers who sided with Marley and their families were spared. From a story standpoint, to a degree yes the Yeagerist’s points were understandable. Eren’s decisions never included diplomacy, he was given that chance but chose to ignore it without giving the people a chance to consider it. He went straight to a full-fledged attack on diplomats and innocents. Yes military action against Marley was justified, but against the whole world? No. They didn’t attempt any kind of diplomacy whatsoever, it was immediately war.
I have an issue with the people who unironically use this situation to justify genocide in the real world claiming its self-defense and that yaddy yayada reason. Its a morally gray area no matter what side you are on. On one hand the Marlyeans were going to kill all the Islanders, on the otherhand the Yeagerists were going to kill everyone.
This is basically Home Vs Humanity. Would you save your home and family, or would you protect the greater part of humanity. Arguments could be made for both.
For me I’m part of home and family, but I’m not sure I would be able to go through with mass genocide. I also don’t think that I would be able to let my home and family get destroyed.
W take
Apex later tonight?
Yeagerist supporters like to apply the "as long as it happens to somebody else instead of me" logic when making their arguments for the rumbling. Fact is if they were the ones on the receiving end of a rumbling their opinion would be dramatically different.
Well of course duh🤦 dummy...
there is an unfathomable amount of destruction and hate in the world, im never choosing them over those who actually care about me
Isamaya
You are
Great
Bhayya✨⚡💥
What people don’t understand is that is not that Genocide is wrong, but in the context of Aot what is it going to bring to the paradisians. The answer is pretty simple, nothing. Because the hate they are erasing is just temporary. The show has stated and tried to tell that conflict is human nature, Erwin literally says conflict will not end, not even if we are down to one” or what Kiyomi said to Floch “all you doing is making the world smaller” .Also the Yeagerist are a representation of the old Eldian empire, the same ones that enslaved and butchered civilizations, the same ones that led to the creation of the Titan era. The cycle will not end cuz we always choose violence when we are confused and scare.
Nobody chooses violence when they’re scared unless they’re a child,or in a war, in reality we choose violence to defend ourselves and fight those who hate us,or are trying to kill us
And the cycle would end of eren hadn’t been stopped by the people that were called friends
@@user-tg9gt6bk9u how come would it end?
@@rosegiogio9255 It would end if eren killed everyone, it would be better,and as flock was already planning if any of their own in paradis (including Mikasa, Jean,Connie) and the rest didn’t like it then they’d have to be dealt with
@@user-tg9gt6bk9u what a way to end the cycle 🤦♂️ “hey if you don’t like my genocide plan then will just have to persecute you ” 🤦♂️ did you even read my original comment?
both sides are correct, im just on erens side cuz he is the protagonist and we saw from eldiia perspective. but really this question shows how great AOT is. the world is cruel, so u must fight, erens attitude is perfect reflection, he feels miserable inside because of what he KNOWS, he has to do,
I read a comment somewhere that Paradis could have sold the bulk of their iceburst stone to the nations of the world, and achieved peace in the process. The logic being that it would be more profitable to buy iceburst stone than to go to war with Paradis.
It’s no surprise that the Paradis military didn’t think of this, but it’s perhaps a stretch that the government-which should understand politics and economics-never considered this option either.
The problem with that is they not only wanted their resources but for them to all DIE!
Why would they buy from you when they can just take it by waging war against paradis genius..... Marley has the capability to win the war against paradis easily (unless someone activates the rumbling)......also no one will stop Marley from waging war against paradis because almost 90% of outside world consider them devil and would be more than happy to make the same deal of resources with Marley instead of eldians
“What about the innocent people that haven’t done anything” WHAT ABOUT MY INNOCENT PEOPLE????
and what about both?
W video W RUclipsr
:)
Just because it's wrong, doesn't mean that we wouldn't do it anyways.
The fastest talk and the most complex yet simlle question ever😂
Is it wrong?
All hail King Floch
W video
W comment
This guy sounds like me when I'm writing a 500 word essay that's saying would you rather save the world for your friends and family or save your friends and family for the world
I'm a year late but one flaw all of these people just forget and don't bother mentioning because they want Eren to be the bad guy is that Eren actually explored all options, Paths has shown Eren some of his potential outcomes but I have no clue if the Anime will even touch this, but in the Liberio arc Eren was scouting to see if they even had a slim chance of negotiation (Not as if the Warriors made it clear)
Eren was morally justified by waiting until it was a declaration of war (Like they had been waging indirect war with paradis by turning their people into pure mindless titans to hunt down the people within the walls)
Morally, Eren is doing what most people would do, but what the alliance did was just cringe af killing the people they were protecting up until S3 P2
Eren did nothing wrong. They threw stones so we threw a knife.
idk why eren is mad at the world. he basically killed his own mom
That's poor writing and the exact reason why people hated the ending lol....some of the things in the story literally don't make sense 😂 ,.............so maybe you should ask this same question to isayama lol
People think in black and white so much when it comes to this. Just cuz I say the rumbling is wrong doesn't mean that I support the exctinction of Paradis!
Think in colours/grey areas people!
There was literally no othe choice
Eren walked out after literally one peace talk. He didn't give it a real chance. Maybe the guy saying that paradis is the devils doesn't believe so and is saying that because he wants to help the mainland eldians first because it's a more manageable goal. Eren won't ever know, and by going missing made hanges hands full and would have probably soured any peace talks if the founding doesn't believe in your plan. A small scale rumbling where the worlds military has been gathered all in one place and all such targets are taken out would have worked or at least bought enough time to establish itself as an actual nation.
Also was the whole coup necessary? It wasn't a (relatively) peaceful transition in power like with historia. Making eldia into a nation of warmongers after you're gone isn't the answer, even if the rumbling was 100%
There was definitely other ways someone could have went about this. Would it have been tougher? Definitely. This wasn't a snap decision, these were choices eren kept making for 4 years straight.
@@taanwallbanks9841 you perfectly summed up my thoughts. So many opportunities were not taken, nor explained why not. S4 felt like characters just did what they did for the plot to roll the direction the creator wanted and not like real people acting and reacting based on the circumstances around them.
*Spoiler* The crazy thing is that even though 80% of the population got killed Marley still destroyed them like 100 years later but at least the main cast lived out there lives peacefully
With both Itachi and Eren I made the same decision. Killing mass amount of people for the survival of the few is cruel and wrong. What Eren is doing is no better than what the world did to him. I understand it but I do not support it. I cannot say what I would do in the actual situation, but like Hange said Genocide is wrong.
I suggest looking at the Social Contract theory, the most popular and widely used moral theory in the world. Eren's genocide is not wrong; when it comes to survival, there is no right or wrong. Hange's take on genocide is childish; it's like someone saying that killing is wrong no matter what. Sometimes, however, killing is not wrong nor right, especially when done in self defense. It depends on the context.
@@anthonygarza4653 Then you must agree that the world's Genocide on Paradis is also not wrong. Correct?
@@djco8919 It is wrong. Because it was not needed for survival. If Paradis was left alone, it wouldn't have come to that. If you are talking about the genocide that comes 80 years later, that is also wrong because no one there had anything to do with the previous attempt at genocide.
Think of it like this; imagine you and everyone else in the world, past, future, and present are in a room together. You are all going to decide what is morally right and what is morally wrong. HOWEVER, you do not know who you are; maybe you are black, maybe you are Eldian, maybe you are from the year 1950 or the year 1214. Because you don't know who you are, you don't have any biases. All that you know is that you are self-interested and rational.
A situation appears on a screen, "The robbing of others for personal gain". Now, decide if that is good or bad, or neither. Of course, you are self-interested so you poke your head up at the "personal gain". However, you are also rational. What if you are the one getting robbed? Thus, you decide that it is wrong.
In short, the collective responses of self-interested and rational individuals can actually formulate the laws needed for a society to survive and endure. So, what about this situation?
"Person A attacks Person B with the intent to kill. Person B defends himself and kills Person A to do so. Is he wrong for doing so?" Well, if you are Person A, you don't want to die. But the same goes for Person B! But remember, you are rational. Thus, you know that if Person B is not allowed to defend himself, society would fall to incessant murders. A functioning society is in your self interest so you decide self defense that resorts to killing is not wrong! However, does that make it right?
"Person A should die because it would improve the lives of Person B." What if you are Person A? Thus, we can conclude that the killing of a person is never right. BUT, depending on the context, it can be either wrong or neither.
Now, let's more to more dangerous topic. "Person A kills Person B not in self defense but because it was the only way to ensure their own survival." Person B doesn't want to die, but neither does Person A. This is an "under duress" situation. So what is the right answer here? The correct one is once again neither. That is because society only functions on the realization of everyone knowing that if they push someone into a corner, that person is not morally wrong for fighting back with lethal intent. Because everyone knows this, no one wants to push someone into that corner. However, Person B never pushed Person A into a corner in this situation. Someone else did; let's say that it was Person C.
So, the situation changes to "Person C forces Person A to kill Person B on the threat of death." However, the answer doesn't change whatsoever in regards to Person A. He was pushed into a corner and made a self-interested choice and rational choice; to validate the concept of the right to life for oneself, which the validation of allows for the continued survival of society.
Let's break that situation up even more. What if Person A decides to die rather than kill Person C? Well, that would make him morally right! Because he made a choice that wasn't self-interested but was also for the good of others self-interest and society!
What about Person C? Is he morally wrong? Assuming that no one else force his hand, then yes, he was in the wrong.
Now let's apply this to AoT. No one forced Marley's hand into attacking Paradis first. Their constant warfare provoked the world into fighting them and rather than try to make amends they continued. Then, to get more resources, they decided to genocide an island of people. They made their decision. Even more so, they fearmongered by claiming Paradis was coming to kill everyone.
Paradis had their hands forced on the threat of death. Lets say they are People A. People B is Marley, People C is the rest of the global alliance, and People D are all of the innocents. People B convinced People C to scorch Paradis completely. People C agreed. For People A to defend themselves, they needed to kill People B and People C. However, their only method of doing so would also kill People D.
If they don't defend themselves, the Social Contract breaks. With the symbol of international hatred and thus international unity gone, the world will fight each other much like ours. However, the rules would have changed. Now, genocide of whole countries is on the table as seen with Paradis.
Do you want to know who to really blame? Blame Willy Tybur. The shadow leader of Marley. He let his country attack innocent people knowingly. He then fearmongered to get support for another unwarranted attack. Willy is the real villian.
@@anthonygarza4653 you wrote way too much I promise to read it all someday, but not right now.
Yes Willy did allow Marley to attack Paradis and that was bad, but then what was he supposed to do? Marley was beginning to fail as a country and the king of the walls told him it would be ok. They were all trying to repent for the wrongs of the past. Does that make it ok? No. Yes because they attacked first, Eren retaliated, but what should he have done after that attack. He knows Eren is free to use the power of the founder to destroy them all. Should he become just like king of the wall and just let everyone die because of his past sins? You call this fearmongering, but he told them the truth. The power to destroy the world is in the hands of someone that might use it now, no matter the reason. The Tybur's knew the island was not a threat and easy taking if Marley ever wanted too. Does that make it right to do it? No, but when the deed is done and the dice have been rolled, what do you expect them to do? Die.
Just like Historia said. There are people outside Paradis that will not know of what or why is happen. They will be just like Eren's mother. Killed in ignorance. Are these killings justified? Self defense extends to everyone actively trying to kill you not everyone that wants you dead. Destroying the alliance makes sense, but everyone else is insane.
@@anthonygarza4653 Ok I got through it all. My statement still stands. "Self defense extends to everyone actively trying to kill you not everyone that wants you dead. Destroying the alliance makes sense, but everyone else is insane."
I hate the Cringevengers
Who is cringevengers ? 🤔
I wonder what will happen to the world if the enemy obtained the Founding Titan and eradicated the Paradis Island? Nobody seems to think about this outcome as they are focusing more on Eren's rumbling. He was just delaying hatred actions towards his people in order for his friends to live long and have a good life.
Conflicts will continue anyway nmw. I'm with Eren all throughout. A short-lived genocide is better than long-lived genocide that the Marley will inflict to the world once they get the Founding Titan.
At the very least, Eren was able to stop the Titan powers which flourish more greed and hatred to the world. It also ended a long suffering of Ymir.
I'm so glad Jean didn't join the yeagerist. even if he had doubts, he knew deep inside what they were doing was just wrong.
Eren was right simply on the fact that he had literally no choice, and to sacrifice your friends to save the world that hates them is the very thing that goes against his morals
I disagree with the yeagorsts main reason would have to be they are out right fascists
Buzzwords.
W point fs I hope there’s an anime original ending, I personally don’t think isayama put himself in a hole, Marley alliance was similar to Itachis way of saving the world in exchange of his own people whilst there yeagarist valued their own, I think it was good writing bcuz it shows the constrast of morality.
"In the struggle of life and death, where is there a place for rules and morals" miyamoto musashi
Genocide is the rightful decision it's the way to stop the cycle of hated that will threaten eldia in the future.