i don’t think there’s any failure when we assign virtue to strangers. i expect virtue from everyone, i want to project goodness as the default. it’s totally fair to be disappointed when a stranger harasses you, why not a person who is known for being good?
You said my thoughts perfectly. I keep seeing comments like "well we don't know these celebrities," and I feel I don't have to know them to expect better. I don't know any of those tech execs who had sexual harassment cases/allegations during the me too era, and I don't need to know them to expect better from them and the workplaces they were creating.
When people are revealed as the *exact opposite* of what they show the world- people feel the intentionality of it all, and they feel ‘betrayed’ on a much deeper level. There’s messing up, and then there’s creating a completely false persona/brand. Big difference.
Honestly why im cautious of anyone portraying themselves as super progressive and body posetive, they’re almost always hypocrites and ironically racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic behind the scenes, or abusive. So, super posetive and overly progressive folk makes me anxious. Thats not to say i don’t believe on equeal right for every single human on earth, but i don’t go around making it my personality.
It is 100% illegal to REQUIRE prayer in the workplace at all, especially if it's against the stated religious beliefs (includes aetheism) of an employee. If anyone will corroborate her claim it's a direct violation of the civil rights act of 1964.
I think Tee is agreeing that legally you're probably right, but culturally you might have a hard time getting the jury to see this as a problem amongst all the other problems
@@juicyparsons For almost any other situation I'd agree, but the civil rights act of 64 is a really, really big deal here in the US. It's one of the central pillars of our modern legal system. Any judge ruling that mandatory prayer was acceptable in a workplace might actually end that judge's career-- it would be grounds for an appeal at the very least. I think where they might have a hard time is proving that the prayer circles were actually mandatory, and that the dancers would lose their jobs if they didn't attend. If they have messages or emails from management stating that the prayers were required, that might win them the case. But, if they have to try to convey that it was a 'culture of fear' type situation where attendance wasn't technically mandatory but everyone knew it was, that ambiguity will be hard for them to prove. Especially if their colleagues aren't willing to testify.
@@Lakishia Prayer in the workplace is fine. Mandatory prayer in the workplace is a hard no on a federal level. You can hold a prayer circle for your company, but forcing your employees to attend is religious discrimination. Until the civil rights act of 64 is struck down (sometimes i think it's only a matter of time...), it's completely illegal to do that in the US.
In the complaint it says that it is not officially mandatory but sort of expected. I don’t think that they can use this as religious discrimination or anything illegal if they themselves admit that it is not actually mandatory
what's shitty is people using this as an excuse to be fatphobic, racist, and misogynistic towards lizzo as if the victims themeselves aren't fat black women. like obviously we know that they don't actually care about any of the real problems in regards to the lawsuit, but i wish they would at least be honest about their intentions instead trying to frame what they're doing as Good and Just
It's very brave to publicly hold celebrities accountable in an industry where people so often get black-listed, so I admire the women bringing Lizzo to court for that.
I do too. Weird anecdote but I have a family friend who did lots of extra work in shows like Game of Thrones, several Marvel movies, etc. and you wouldn't believe the amount of s*xual harassment that goes on in plain sight of big celebrities, perpetuated by big celebrities, and hushed up by big celebrities. It's heartbreaking. Another friend of mine worked in a very trendy and fancy hotel in London that hosted a lot of male celebs from the early 2000s, and the amount of them that targeted questionably aged girls *exclusively* is shocking. *EDITING TO BE MORE VAGUE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE SMOKE FROM THIS DUDE WHO'S A KNOWN CREEPER* : Perhaps maybe allegedly a man who might've been in a famous film concerning animals and time goofs... maybe possibly allegedly who may also be a bit threatening so I have no desire to get in their sights...
Tbf, there isnt a market really for plus sized dancers in the industry outside of what Lizzie provided. There’s some but it’s far and few between. These girls had nothing to lose because they no longer worked for Lizzo.
That DEEP adoration the dancers had for her creates a situation where power abuse is just so easy and normalized. It’s giving cult leader vibes … And this applies to all celebrities btw
I think you make a very valuable point here on the power abuse dynamic given that yes, they did idolize her, enough to audition and be on her show and work their asses off. Agree with you completely here.
💯🎯💯🎯 yes. Very well said. it was very much seemingly giving 'High control group with a cult-like atmosphere'. Everything from the hierarchy to the encouraged 'hive mind mentality'...
Idk, as a victim of gross&weird sexual harassment I stand with the women Lizzo (& others) victimized. I was also a fan of Lizzo (she's super talented) but nah, I'm out and I definetly believe the accusers as I usually do. Being sex positive and sexually liberated doesn't give you the right to force anything of a sexual nature on nonconsenting folks, so I don't think a lot of people looking into this and speaking out against Lizzo are fatphobic in nature, I do think people who already hated on Lizzo before any of these allegations (mostly because she's fat) could be suspicious in why they are vocal about the situation
I have to say the people I have known in my life who talked the most and the loudest about being "sex positive" were always the ones putting others into incredibly uncomfortable situations almost constantly. The amount of times just one particular woman harassed me into showing more skin, touching or being touched by people I wasn't comfortable with, being in photos I didn't want to be in was astronomical. And she did it to anyone and everyone who came to certain events.
that perceived blurred line between sex positive and sexually inappropriate behaviour without consideration for the targeted individuals involved is something that has played on my mind for years. I've seen it, I've felt uncomfortable being in the vicinity of it, and I'm glad more conversations are being had around it.
This is the most thoughtful and critical commentary on this whole situation I have seen on the internet thus far. From calling out the fatphobic biases, to critiquing celebrity idolization, to the dark realities of the entertainment industry, and highlighting what's actually on the line for the suing party. Excellent commentary.
As someone who just finished their law degree the assault might stand because there is a difference between assault and battery. Battery is the act of actually touching someone else and causing harm, Assault is just the threat of violence. Balling up your fists and having to be restrained deffo counts as assault in my opinion and there’s more than enough case law to support. But yeah depends if the courts want to take it seriously.
Agreed. They may have something to stand on for that but a lot of the other allegations don’t seem to hold much weight. Have your read the full document yet?
@@jazisajoke8688I recently did and they really don’t have much here. I imagine the court of opinion being way harder on Lizzo than the law will be. Most of the allegations aren’t even against her, they’re against the dance captain, and most of the allegations are rooted in “I felt like…” not actual things that were said or even implied by Lizzo or her team.
@@madixxoo yeah that’s what i seem to be getting. the dance coach and management hold a bulk of the claims. I’ll always believe the victims as Tee said but obviously recognise how the public has been waiting for a chance to jump on her (although rightfully so in this case) I actually just did a dissertation about Lizzo and the hate she gets from the public 😭 so this hit vv close to home.
i wasnt even a huge lizzo fan, but this one hurt as a fat girl. i knew objectively any celebrity could be capable of this, hell any regular person could be, but this one hurt. i really appreciate your nuanced view as always, and you clocking the fatphobia that people are allowing just because its lizzo. and just in case anyone comes for me, obviously and always i stand with the victims and survivors. i just wish lizzo had known and acted better. sigh. also, so good to see you back tee!
One thing about having millions of dollars and power is that it leads to an inflated sense of self-importance and often the ability to abuse your power~ No celebrity is to be adored!
@@nwatson2773 I wonder what the line is where a normal person goes from being normal, to realizing they can do things like that and not have anyone say anything.
So many people were salivating for a chance to attack Lizzo like this and now they have gotten what they wanted. I'm not saying I disbelieve her accusers but it would be crushing if these were falsehoods that ruined this woman who moved the needle forward for so many plus sized performers. That being said, if the allegations are proven true, I will stand with the victims.
Tasteofashes1196, exactly. You worded what I’ve been trying to say. I 100% believe the victims bcz the industry is so weird. I just hate that anytime a fat person or a black women does something wrong all the fatphobia and misogynoir comes out
@@nwatson2773 I think it's a chicken-egg situation. You almost have to believe your own hype to gain the popularity and commercial success in the first place, which further leads you down the road of license to feel important while everyone else is lesser. I just think only egotistical people tend to seek that kind of commercial, big-name stardom. People without the ego-drive tend to have different artistic goals than money and fame.
Thank you so much for this nuanced video, Tee! First of all, it is extremely rare to see someone who isn't overweight to understand and speak out about fat phobia, and I appreciate how you brought that into the discussion. Secondly, I was struggling to understand why I was feeling so completely devastated by this, and I think you articulated it perfectly. And then giving yourself the space to feel your sense of loss in a para-social relationship made me realize that I can do the same. Really, I was engaging with a ideal of Lizzo, and I'm now suffering the loss of that ideal (which I'm sure no one could measure up to anyway). Thirdly, the way you showed that we can believe victims, even when they don't prevail in court (we know the judicial system really protects employers)- PERFECT! We need more of your videos - you always seem to remind me how nuanced things are, and how it's okay for me to feel more than one way about a thing. Thank you again, and I sure hope we'll be seeing more of your videos!
Agree with you though just so you know overweight is a medicalised fatphobic term so please use the word fat, plus size, person of size or something in future 💜
@@cordeliaistheone I’m sure your intentions are good, but people can use whatever words they want. “Overweight” is a scientific term with a specific definition. It’s also a medical classification. You can say or think whatever you want- it doesn’t make it true.
Watched this while my devout Christian mother (and Lizzo fan) was relaxing in the living room with me and I think it really helped her see other people’s perspectives on this whole situation. She’s been trying to be more open minded over the last few years and I’m really glad we both got a chance to calmly discuss all the issues you went over in this…thank you for this video, Tee 💛
i’m glad that you and your mom were able to talk about this!! sending so much love and support both of your ways- trying to change isn’t easy, but it’s one of the most important things we can do. i hope she knows that even the small steps are huge victories.
I feel like this situation is an example of why we shouldn’t hold up celebs as ‘unproblematic faves.’ Like everyone is capable of bad behavior. I also saw someone talking about how most celebrities don’t have any actual leadership experience and don’t know how to be a ‘boss’ in the literal sense. I definitely feel like that’s part of this situation.
Seeing the typical “me too” “feminist” women in her comments on Instagram completely bullying the victims while gassing up Lizzo was disappointing but ultimately unsurprising. Celebs are just the worsttttr
19:51 the whole Red Light District thing doesn’t surprise me but it makes me sad bc I’ve been in Arianna’s shoes…I don’t wanna go into my personal peer pressure situation but a similar example would be: when bachelorettes/sorority girls invite everyone in their group out to a male strip show or something similar and one of the girls CLEARLY isn’t down to be danced on or interact with the performers so they get called “lame” or “a party pooper” by the rest of the group (which doesn’t make it okay obviously but it does happen and makes you feel shitty) I can only imagine how I’d feel if MY JOB was on the line
Exactly… I feel bad for them because it is a type of emotional abuse that isn’t “extreme” enough that many wouldn’t categorise it as such. They are brave to expose Lizzo for her horrendous behaviour. I don’t know if they’ll win their suit but hopefully they get some healing out of the process of telling their story
I think the issue of whether fatphobia made you presume Lizzo is harmless is valid but also theres another element. I think we presume people who are allies are good because they are exhibiting a moral virtue that in society’s eyes is optional. The basic human rights of minorities and oppressed are deemed “political issues”, and thus abstract. This creates the problematic idea imo that caring about those rights - sexual violence for women, black lives matter, transgender murder, etc - is abstract political discourse instead of an objective sign on whos humanity we have to protect /care about to be deemed “good people”. Compassion is biased, so when we see people like Lizzo actively voicing support and sympathizing with other oppressed groups she does not have to to be deemed a good person in society…its hard to disentangle that from the idea that she is good and cant be cruel because its relatively rare to begin with and absolutely optional in our current world.
@@casper1343 Hmmm I can try I am not the best....Basically because Lizzo has spoken up on various social issues on behalf of different communities - such as the black community, plus sized/fat community, lgbtq, etc - communities that are less valued or often unheard in society, we think she's a good person, especially since she doesn't have to support these communities to be popular. She could stay silent like many do and still be loved, but she chooses to empower these groups with her voice despite knowing she could stay silent. Due to this, we presume she's a good person
Re: imprisonment: the entertainment industry does this regularly. The cast of Love is Blind were held without access to wallets or phones in a hotel room. They couldn't even access water without asking. It is very fucked up and also everything alleged in the suit is so normalized in the entertainment industry. I feel for them and I'm sad to know someone I looked up to is capable of this.
I was in a toxic work environment for several years where nothing "happened," but the palpable hostility, microaggressions and twisted politics surrounding me were so damaging to me that I still suffer from physical and mental health complications to this day, several years later. The worst part was that I couldn't make any concrete claims about what was happening. What was I supposed to say, that someone used a slightly condescending tone, even though what they said was fine? That everyone looked at me like something was my fault, even though no words were spoken? I felt like I was going crazy, and no one seemed to care. Honestly, getting slapped around would've been so much better, I can handle direct conflict, but that mess was too much for me. The only thing I can say is, if you're in a situation that is harming you in any way, get yourself out of there. Whatever you're sacrificing to be there is worth more than what you're supposedly gaining. And yes, I'm talking about family too. I put up with the workplace toxicity for too long because I was used to tolerating that kind of treatment. I wish there was a way for bullies to get their comeuppance, but oftentimes they don't, and accepting that fact and choosing a better life for myself has made me a much happier person.
The fear of losing your job as a dancer is real. The culture is very much say yes to everything, act right, and know your place. It is rare to be treated with sometimes the most basic humanity. These huge stars have the mentality that you should be grateful just to be picked because other people would kill to replace you. Too often they’re not seen as professionals in their field that are just as much apart of the show as the main performer. Being a professional dancer is ranked one of the highest physically demanding jobs! Yet we stay underpaid with minimal protection against situations these women were put in. There is a greater conversation to be had surrounding dancers rights and how we can collectively combat the normalized mistreatment in our WORKPLACES. Not exactly the same thing but a big example of dancers not being respected for what they do is the 2022 Super Bowl halftime show. The dancers were not paid, neither was Mary J Blige but it’s not the same! Ugh how is the biggest sporting event in america ,that generates so much revenue, does not pay the hundreds of dancers that rehearse for weeks for the halftime show that literally everyone watches. Make it make sense.
Not a dancer, but got my degree in technical theatre & worked as a scenic artist for a bit before leaving the industry. I *loved* the work, but the culture of 'we're a family, why are you not willing to put in double the hours you agreed to in your contract, do you *want* to be branded difficult & unwilling to give your all?' just got to be too much. Artists love making art, but we still need money for rent, food, etc.
That’s how you know we are similar in age cos these kids barely know who Naomi Campbell is let alone remembering her drug induced violence towards her former employees. Y’all remember when she hit her assistant with her cell phone????
I honestly only have vague memories of _something_ about her throwing a phone. I'm a couple years ahead of Tee and l honestly only remember people rebutting her detractors with accusation of racism and next thing I know, she's just the misunderstood baddie Supermodel who Tyra tried to take down.
I don't expect celebrities to be perfect, but I am disappointed by all of this behavior, especially the ableism, fatphobia, and sexual harassment. She can be allowed to be human and have bad days where she is mean, rude, etc, but that other mess is an abuse of power. Such a shame.
That's the thing that really gets me about all of this is that the bigots were waiting for this. Whether it's Lizzo, Amber Heard, Johnathan Majors (I believe) or even a person like Meghan Markle. People wait for their downfall then justify their misogyny and racism with whatever the person did. But in regards to Lizzo and Johnthan Major's Believe The Victims Always. Especially if your favourite celebrity is the one being accused.
I have always been one to listen to victims first. But I will say that there are people who defended Johnathan Majors and Tory Lanez, but are demanding Lizzo’s head. Even the ones who say “I usually wait” are just jumping at Lizzo. It’s just misogyny. There’s people who just want to be justified in never listening to women when they come out and say they were harmed.
@@rahbeeuh Your absolutely Right Meghan never did anything wrong. It's Just she is a prime example of a person being attacked for their Race and Gender. I honestly believe that hate against her isn't justified but at the slightest misstep she will be attacked.
I feel like the big difference between Lizzo and a lot of the other people in entertainment who do terrible things is that she made a big part of her brand being inclusive and more ethical, at least on the surface. The fact that she made that her brand while allegedly torturing her employees is definitely going to alienate some people, who really were with her because of that positive branding. Honestly, I think she really positioned herself as an advocate and ally, which is why so many people expected better from her. I don't think this will end her career, but definitely, a lot of people are going to jump ship. I was never really a die-hard fan, but I appreciated her talent and liked some of her songs, and now I really don't want to hear from her.
If you go through life knowing almost all rich people are moral mutants it makes it much easier. You stop looking up to celebrities and oligarchs and see them for what they are.
and once you see them for what they are it’s hard to unsee. The crazy part is people will try to convince you that it doesn’t matter or you just want to be “different”
Someone else pointed out that the way lizzo used her employees as pseudo friends -leveraging her power as boss to force their behaviors in "casual" contexts - is actually EXTREMELY common with rich people. And I suddenly went back to all the reality shows I've seen where they call their assistants their friends and stuff like that and realized why so many rich women in the industry are backing her. Because they think they're entitled to use poor laborers as play things.s
What’s so disheartening is that Lizzo was living out of her car at one point, but I guess once you accumulate so much wealth without it corrupting you. Or maybe you can’t accumulate that wealth to begin with if u ain’t corrupt hmm 🤔
This is why there should be a limit to how much power one person can hold. At a certain point, you can't hold it down anymore. And to climb that ladder, you have to step on other people.
@@ivania321I mean, I'm not sure how a parasocial relationship can apply to people we already know. I was mostly referring to people who we really don't know at all. Not people we have personal relationships with.
As a fan of Lizzo I still feel the same I did upon originally hearing it. I did have to reevaluate my love for her when she said Chris Brown was one of her favorite people. That statement has never felt right to me and had me questioning some things about her. My main issue with the pushback is that had she been more conventionally attractive and not fat like other faves this would've been played down. As mentioned Naomi Campbell has assaulted multiple employees and still has a career, still highly sought after and still getting her flowers. Doesn't make Lizzo less wrong but hella people would be requesting to join the crew to have their "mean mommy" fave step on them. I just want the same energy for all as if we haven't been watching Onika bully for over a decade openly now. Lizzo was wrong for her part in all this but I'm not going to crucify her. Sounds like the line was blurred often between employer vs friend and that is a definite no. Especially if you feel your friends don't have the right to say no to you 👀 also weird. TDLR: Am I surprised by this? No, but I am disappointed.
Glad you said this! I've lived a little and made plenty of my own mistakes in life so far, so I'm not exactly jumping for joy how others are when devastating news comes out about certain celebrities behind the scenes lives vs. the public face we see, but I can say I've been waiting for a while now for Nicki to get her own video tbh. She needs one QUICKLY.
i do want the dancers’ stories to be at the center of the conversation, and it’s been hard to have this come right after the ozempic craze and a slew of formerly fat celebrities being like “don’t put me in a body positivity box. it’s too much pressure to be a role model.” which would be also a valid conversation if there were literally anyone else doing what Lizzo was doing for fat representation. Holding one (1) shitty person accountable should not mute 95% of the conversation in entertainment about loving our fat bodies, but it feels like that’s what is going to happen. i’m grateful there’s a space here where i can talk about this without being hit with “so you don’t care about sexual assault???!?!!?”
I don't worship Lizzo or anything, but I thought she would be nicer because of the message she puts out. Thus, I'm not going to lie, I was very disappointed. It took me a couple of days to process because I didn't expect it. There are celebrities I look at and think "Yeah you're probably mean" or there are celebrities where you can see their flaws... I guess with Lizzo I rarely saw them. Soo yeah it's been eye opening
See I never felt that I always got she was very strict with her work ethic as she had many hurdles and her TikTok very much tells you she's rowdy, I meet many Lizzos in my life and I'm just 24 aside from the piss incident many of these scenarios really hard to get masses to understand cause the club scenario and force prayers would not faze another dancer who vibes the same so someone seeing her info and being kind I wish told her way earlier this not a good fit for you, I wonder did she sign a contract she couldn't get out of cause I wished she left at first sign then maybe her name wouldn't be dead in this line of work breaks my heart for her.
As someone who was bullied relentlessly as a youth, I don’t assume anyone is nice or kind; I must get to know them personally. To me anyone can be a bully, no matter their public persona, attractiveness, or good works. I let people show me who they are then react accordingly. 😊
I love that you bring up Naomi Campbell. You hear nothing but praise surrounding her. Yeah, we get it, she's stupidly successful as a model and ages better than any of us. Apparently if you're skinny enough, you can do whatever.
I was also heartbroken when I learned about the Lizzo incident. I was reluctant to believe it at first on the small chance that it wasn't true. But as more stories came out and found out the lawyer Lizzo hired was the same one that defended Chris Brown and Bill Cosby in the past, I'm inclined to believe the women who're going up against Lizzo. And now knowing more details thanks to your video, it's so much worse than I thought it was. I don't blame myself for putting faith in Lizzo that she was a good person, despite being aware I'm in a parasocial relationship with her. I also know I had to be careful about putting people on pedestals. And I did think about if a celebrity or influencer I loved was problematic what would I do. I didn't think about how I'd feel. I know people have flaws and would rather have celebrities and influencers make actual apologies, take accountability, and make reparations to the people they harmed. And then I felt like I was tested by the dang universe with Lizzo. I had to figure out where I drew the line on how I feel about and interact with her art. I mean we should hold people, whether it be strangers, celebs, or influencers to a standard of being a decent and kind person. And that includes Lizzo. Yes, she made strides in the music industry and pop culture, but like you said we can acknowledge that truth at the same time as her being a mean person behind the scenes. I'm more angry and disappointed in Lizzo. I followed her since 2016 and saw her Special concert in 2022. Her songs comforted me through the worse times in my life, they were integral to my healing. I cried to my therapist yesterday about the Lizzo situation. I mentioned in past therapy sessions how Lizzo helped comfort and heal me. I ended up crying harder than I thought I would about this. Hell, at the end of my session I was still crying (which my therapist was concerned about) and cried some more afterwards. I was a huge fan and rooted for her. I had interacted with narcisstic and toxic people in the past and she helped me heal from that. But now knowing she's narcissistic and toxic too, I don't know how I'll interact with her songs anymore. I know I can't listen to them atm because now I'm reminded or those horrible people and that Lizzo is one of them until she apologizes and atones for her actions. I'm at a lost of what to do for myself. But if anything, I'm reminded that even talented people can be toxic and horrible; and their talent doesn’t excuse their behavior.
I think we need to start having long in depth lectures in public school about work place professionalism. The problem is that even with HR, even with legal precedent in place, there's no real clear guidelines laid out to young people about limitations and boundaries. Right now there's a high emphasis in America on hustle culture, on grinding endlessly and fighting your way to the top. And because of how career focused this country is and how we force everyone's lives to revolve around their careers, people don't know when too far is too far. These women were not just Lizzo's friends, they were her employees. But I'm sure in her mind, she thought she was just messing around. And a lot of people think that way in lots of professional environments. We aren't given social spaces to freely express ourselves in a non-professional way with colleagues and friends. Most adults make friends with coworkers because there's very few other places to find people to interact with. And while that doesn't excuse any of her actions, Lizzo here is just a symptom of the larger problem. People have to keep their lives to themselves in the work place within reason. If you wanna push yourself to the extremes, that's just you, not your employees. If you want to go to strip clubs and let loose with friends, make friends that want to do that, not just your coworkers. It needs to be made expressly clear that that's what being an adult means. In school they let you get away with goofing off in class cause you're still young and figuring things out. But some people get to college and kick that shit to an 11, and then never break those patterns. They're rewarded for being "outgoing" and often treated better because people see them as "entertaining" (which is likely why so many of these public cases are about entertainers). But that pursuit of happiness can't impede upon someone else's liberties. Or worse, someone else's livelihood. The thing they need to survive.
I really appreciate you bringing up the unfair bias society has for Christianity and how if Muslims dared to act like so many of these rude Christian’s people would be freaking out.
I sick by Lizzo's statement and the lawyer she chose to represent her. Taking accountability and responsibility as someone who holds a large amount of power and influence over people is the LEAST that she can do. Do we have to see her acts of abuse televised Tyra Banks style for her to realize she is not immune to Abuse of Power???? But like you said, I also believe that Lizzo is fully aware of the power she holds over the women she works with and she abused her power intentionally for her own gain and pleasure. Sick, but not at all surprised imo. No one in the entertainment industry is immune Wishing the best to the dancers, Ariana, Crystal, and Noelle, and hope they can find fulfilling work somewhere else in the entertainment industry, if they still want to at this point.
In all honesty we have to get out of this good person bad person mentality. There is no such thing as a good person or bad person.Its people who do good things or bad things.
People who do bad things repeatedly and feel no remorse ARE bad people. Everybody makes mistakes, but good people recognize their mistakes and learn from them were as bad people don't care and keep doing it over and over again. There are indeed "bad" people. In fact, there are people who are downright EVIL.
I don't know if avoiding parasocial relationships altogether is possible - our brains aren't wired for how we engage with strangers/famous people on the internet. engaging with those relationships critically and keeping them in check is maybe the best we can do!
This whole situation breaks my heart, I didn't listen to Lizzo's music before and obviously not now, but I did loved Lizzo. I admired her a lot for the things she had done for fat people, for us to be taken seriously and not as a joke in many branches of entertainment and in society in general tbh (obviously I don't think Lizzo was THE only one to do this but you can't lie Lizzo had a lot to do with this change). I am a Hispanic, fat bisexual woman, and to see a fat woman of color in a stage being herself made me feel happy about myself, I felt hopeful of the sorts, that no matter what I look like I could achieve anything, and I adored Lizzo for that, she was like a beacon of hope of the sorts to me and for many I would like to think. When i first saw the news, honestly i couldn't believe it at first but then it did ended up being real and it made me genuinely sad, not for Lizzo but for first of all, the victims and for fat people in general.
So happy to see a video! 💞 I'm someone who tries as best as I humanly can to not form all sorts of parasocial relationships with celebs, or really pay attention to online drama anymore. I place my value first and foremost about the people in my personal life, especially now that I'm finding more worthwhile stuff to spend my time on. Even as someone who I suppose... used to admire Lizzo? Who absolutely wants the victims to have their peace, their privacy and closure that they need--it still stung. And I found it was less so because 'someone I thought was cool wasn't all that perfect' since I don't want to view ANYONE as perfect, and more because the rate at which I saw people (mostly skinny people lol) come out of nowhere to say stuff like "She always felt off to me" or that "I knew all along she was bad I just didn't have proof". As you said, WOW the fatphobia is off the charts omg! All of a sudden, if someone like Lizzo 'turns out to be a bad person' it gives rise to all the people to once again to make the "always thought she was ugly/bad and now I can shame her for her appearance publicly since she's problematic" comments. Just straight up vitriolic fatphobia and racism from people who months ago were trying to celebrate her (and now people can see how surface level that support really was). I sadly expect it every time something like this happens now as a fat person. The way fat people have to specifically remind thin people to not make comments like that... always so exhausting. But anyway... I really hope that the victims that are suing get their peace and compensation. They deserve everything and the support, I just wish people weren't so surface level they resorted to fatphobia to show it, and you KNOW they only care about 'looking righteous for talking shit about the problematic person of the week'. Especially since from what I remember multiple of the victims are also reporting they were shamed and discriminated against for being fat too!! 😵💫
Hard agree! The fat phobia coming out is crazy. What Lizzo (allegedly) did was and is disgusting. But to act like it’s suddenly okay to make fun of her body? Trash.
I’m not a big fan of lizzo but she was truly the only fat and black pop girly. And my heart breaks for the little girls who finally have a pop star to look up to. I hope they don’t see the fatphobic comments coming Lizzos way. But as you said she likely did do these things and I hope those girls get some form of Justice.
The internet can be a weird place sometimes. We've got people on the internet debunking these lawsuits made by the victims as lies, that they were solely after the money. Honestly, this shocked me ngl, so I do see why they would not believe them at first because Lizzo's entire 'feel good music' brand stems from body positivity and self-confidence. Like this is a special case of separating the art from the artist because this shows that Lizzo has been contradicting herself behind the scenes. This goes to show that we as people shouldn't put celebrities on a high pedestal for representing a demographic that the entertainment industry and society as a whole view as undesirable. The fact that she made the song 'Rumours' 😭.
Agreed. And also, we need more discussions on how art making has been extremely separated from what it takes to be successful in the business of art. If art as a business requires a person to be an asshole to survive in the game, why do we keep acting so surprised by the vile actions of celebrities? I hope we can get honest about what we have decided it takes to be successful at business, in every industry
One thing I've realized is you can never judge someone by how they advocate for themselves -- look at how they ally themselves with others (or if they don't). Lizzo spoke up for fat women, for women in male dominated industries, etc, but that's also a self serving thing to do. Lizzo clearly loves lizzo and lizzo benefits from that advocacy. Better tells of a person's likely moral character is how they speak on behalf of others, especially if it contradicts their own self interest. Not 100% accurate obviously.
what upsets me right now is the reaction to this lawsuit. people are using lizzo’s actions as a way to fatshame her and be awful to her. i can fully understand what she’s done is such an awful thing and i hope the dancers get justice. it’s just so unfair that lizzo will have to be punished so much more than any (white skinny especially male) others who have commit crimes in the workplace. i’m almost certain those backup dancers didn’t ask for lizzo’s messages to be lost - all that activism shouldn’t be forgotten . misogynoir and fat phobia continues to exist. we shouldn’t always jump to hate on people, because it’s false i’m sure these people shaming lizzo don’t really care for these girls. be kind or don’t say anything at all in regards to something people cannot change.
the thing about parasocial relationships is they’re entirely subconscious. sure you can try to keep yourself in check but your brain literally cannot differentiate the different between seeing someone you know every day and seeing a celebrity posting videos and talking to their fans as if they’re friends every day. unless you completely stop engaging with celebrities outside of consuming their art, i don’t know if there’s a way to actively combat the development of a parasocial relationship
When you said you expected Lizzo to be sweet because she's a big black woman and it's internalized fatphobia I felt that SO hard. Like she is a pretty big girl who looks like one of my family members or one of my homegirls and the big black women I know in my life are always the ones to go out of their way for people and are super kind and I kinda projected that idea onto Lizzo herself. Idk if that is really internalized fatphobia bc I know we all know big girls who are just the fucking coolest people to be around and I think we all kinda projected that onto the only really visible representation of that woman.
Thiiiissss. Maybe it is internalised fat phobia because it boils down to looking the way you do, you should be nice since being fat is seen as a disqualifying factor for like-ability. It's just what we've seen and grown accustomed to, but having the dialogue to challenge our own beliefs is fantastic.
I just wished to say, I really love the self awareness and your ability to let us watch your own inner thought process of your parasocial relationship vision in real time. It feels more human, not as if you're speaking on a higher ground which is hard to find within social commentary youtubers. We all need to work on this and I respect you a lot for that, Tee
Don't feel bad babes💕, I felt the same thing but I don't think it's fully from a parasocial standpoint. Lizzo represented alot of change to people, body autonomy, fat acceptance and love, economic change and women's empowerment. Also queer women's specifically black bi women's most 'respectful and unapologetic' representative. It's alot to let go of, there aren't really celebrities that are both highly visible and such a bold ally/member like Lizzy was in the mainstream, she's made STRIDES for other marginalized people. I think that pain you feel is a loss of community bc Lizzo was meant to be a safe place for us😫. Plus the Vail lifting on such a strong ally is just so fucking painful to watch. Personally as a black queer woman myself, I'm terrified of the repercussion we'll face when the media inevitably frames her as a predator..
Y'all shouldn't put value in what celebrities do, to begin with. If you go outside the internet/TV, you will see it's all just buzzwords that don't change reality. They know people are innocent and fall for this bullshit.
@@vidaverde5047 there’s truth to what your saying definitely! But I think she made a good point considering we’re in a very internet driven culture. We can try to stay off it and act like we don’t know these people but wether we like it or not they’re going to have somewhat of an impact on how people view marginalized groups of people. I wasn’t surprised just disappointed. It becomes hard to critique celebrities when you have them spreading a public image and on top of that they like to make it seem like they’re great people who we’ve seen get unfairly scrutinized before. I’m not talking about lizzo personally ofc she fucked up but I’m talking about celebrities and artists in general.
@@vidaverde5047 I feel like this is dangerous lines of thinking only because yes, it is the internet. It, ideally, shouldn't have much political/social bearing on life offline, but it definitely does, for better and for worse. I just think this was a case of being in the wrong place at the right time because she was already seen as a throwaway person, as well as her victims and the identities/communities they represent. It's like they've been holding out a trashcan this whole time, waiting for her to jump head first into it, and now she has to since there is no coming back from this. I find the timing so interesting, too, since Travis Scott just came back, but notice how it was in Rome and not in the U.S. (where his repercussions are!), and how Tory Lanes just now got sentenced! The other two people mentioned, are obviously not related at all to these events surrounding Lizzo and her camp, but I hate to see it all happen. I can't imagine, if the allegations are true, what the victims are going through right now. They're gonna need hella therapy after all this mess.
FR this hurt to see esp since we rlly cant separate her acts from her entire brand (like?? it’s literally the opposite of what she marketed herself as😭). Ngl yes theres a bunch of underlying fatphobic takes coming out but im also more concerned by the amount of discrediting going on abt the accusers, framed as fatphobic attacks on lizzo like- , these allegations are her own dancers that are also big, black women bffr 😭😭😭
You do know that if this never happened and Lizzo got even more famous she could just easily ditch the whole fat branding and guzzle down the ozempic, get skinny and avoid the health risks of obesity? The only people who would be affected is the fans who took her branding seriously. Celebrities never believe in the things they tell their fans, their image is just marketing and not actually how they view themselves.
"so much to lose and so little to gain" is how I see nearly every case of talking publicly about abuse. the claims of these situations being fake or for attention almost never make sense even where the victim (rarely) wins the lawsuit or whatever, there's still so much to lose in terms of bullying and harassment from strangers and community, getting mired and stuck engaging with the abuser long-term while stuff is sorted, and monetary stuff being up in the air bc engaging with the legal system is prohibitively expensive. I can't see doing this unless you truly believe it's the right thing for you and maybe future victims. horrible process, luck and strength to anyone who goes through it
I’m so glad you brought up the undercurrent of fatphobia when it comes to Lizzo’s cancelation. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else have such a nuanced approach to analyzing this situation. I stand with victims always so I’m rooting for these girls to at least get some type of justice, but this is not an excuse to fat shame Lizzo. That being said, Lizzo’s actions are so disgusting and especially disappointing for me because since the song “Special” came out, I listen to it nearly every morning on my commute and I loved Watch Out for the Big Grrrls. I loved that there was a plus sized icon of color because as a mid-sized black girl, Lizzo made me feel safe and seen too. I’m not usually the type of person that idolizes people, and I think we shouldn’t put celebrities on pedestals, but for someone whose whole brand and persona is based on self-love, acceptance, and positivity this one felt like a punch to the stomach. On the topic of purity culture and imposition of Christianity: when I was in my freshman year of high school, they gave us PHYSICAL v-cards and by signing them we were pledging abstinence 💀
I would have had so much fun being an atheist with the dance captain bc I don’t care about dancing for Lizzo. I’m also raised Baptist which I consider a PhD in atheism in my case
last sentence is way too true. i wasn’t raised baptist but attended my friend’s baptist church a few times and know several ppl who grew up that way and we’re all either agnostic or atheist now 😂
I'm from South africa. Like every other country.. We consume American culture. ALOT. Something that I have noticed about American celebrities is that they use statements like "I dissapointed the idea of me that you have in your mind" "Other people have done worse but I'm getting punished" or even "They are trying to bring a black man down" There are groups of people who deserve to say that like Lil nas x who was told that his song old town is not country enough or Victims of the death row thingy who genuinely didn't do anything. These are just examples. But I feel that there are people who exploit these statements in order to be not held accountable for their actions. The bad part of their exploitation of these statements is that sometimes they are truly not held accountable AND the statements loose their weight. To a point where even if a person who is genuinely innocent uses them... People will be so used to hearing those. Honestly i believe that celebrity culture in America is STRONG. Too strong. It's strong to a point where a celebrity can never have a downfall. If they fall, they land on the clouds.. Leaving victims at a huge disadvantage UNLESS there are alot of victims like the R Kelly situation.
I think we went through this with Ellen too. Major win for gays on TV, known for her kindness, wretched to work for. We've been known and it didnt end her career. Entertainment industry is just fully toxic so im never surprised when it comes out that harm has occured
I feel like people who say "I wish people would stop looking up to these celebrities" and actually thinks that'll happen, are the people who's faves haven't been called to the principals office yet. And when it happens we all gon be like "OUUUUU 🫵🏾👀" pointing 'n shit 😂
This was exactly the video I was waiting for 🙏 I've been actively avoiding 'news' about this, because I did not trust the majority of outlets/creators, to mindfully breakdown the situation without being discriminatory and hateful in all directions. 2 thoughts: 1. Them being plus sized dancers as well makes it even riskier to bring allegations because their pool of jobs is much smaller. I wouldn't be surprised if they came into this fully expecting to end their careers. And that's absolutely awful. 2. With the charge of disability discrimination, I'm struggling with this one because on one hand, I do believe (as someone with multiple invisible disabilities) you are responsible for advocating for your needs and wellbeing. However, I do hold Lizzo and her team responsible for not proactively ensuring their workplace facilitated and supported disabled workers advocating for and accessing accommodations. Basically, I think responsibility is shared, but more so on the part of the employer as they were in charge of the environment and are not subject to the additional cost of not having your disability accommodated for. That said, I don't believe Lizzo and her team deserve more critique on this than should be leveled at all other workplaces. Because this exact dynamic is pervasive across literally any area that interacts with disability. And it's infuriating.
Great video. I think that if you are a celebrity that becomes a hugh brand and you have a lot of employees you need to hire some sort of HR person to help you to deal with so much people and draw concrete contracts. That lady harassing the dancer because of religion is a great example to set boundaries, perhaps Lizzo wanted to have a bonding time with her employees. She thought it was ok because she works within music/celebrity industry. There is a set of things that employer and employees can do together and going to a sex club and push people that work under you to touch the preformersb is not it.
When I saw the tiktok about the guy who was glad Lizzo was being hated in the media because he found her "disgusting" and now had the means to justify his fatphobia made me sick!!!! Matter of fact, there are so much videos on tiktok with men being happy about this.
When people are revealed as the *exact opposite* of what they show the world- people feel the intentionality of it all, and they feel ‘betrayed’ on a much deeper level. There’s messing up, and then there’s creating a completely false persona/brand. Big difference.
Spent ages trying to word a comment around my feeling on Lizzo, so I’m gonna give up, but still wanted to thank you for your empathy and passion around fatphobia, it meant a lot ❤
Your bit on fatphobia was so refreshing. Hit the nail on the head- it was very cathartic to hear you talk about that before even diving in. Thanks for the video!!
Even if she admits she “suggested” going to that club in Amsterdam and touching the performers, I would also like her to admit that doing so was inappropriate due to the power she holds over her dancers as not only their boss but as someone who is famous. Loved this video. I told my friends that Lizzo doesn’t owe it to us as a collective to be a good role model however she does owe it to her employees to create a safe and legal abiding work environment
This is the best analysis of this situation I've heard so far. You put a lot of conflicting thoughts I had into words, and really dug into them. Excellent work ✨
I'm very disappointed 😔 I've never been a fan of another person ever, but I like people that tries to change society for the better. Which makes this so much more heartbreaking 😔
I feel relief when I watch your videos. Every nuance of a situation that i find difficult to explain or think through is laid out in such a way I can immediately connect with and understand. There is never a stone unturned and that makes your videos incredibly satisfying and grounding. It doesn’t stop me from looking and thinking further but gives me energy to think more about it.
I really appreciated your breakdown of this. Especially again being "baggered by the book" and pledging abstinence. I completely believe the victims and also feel like Lizzo is going to get worse treatment than anyone else (cis, thin, male, female, yt) who might do the same or worse. Its so complicated feeling like i want justice and precedent but also feeling so upset that someone i did admire for what conversations and representation she did bring (because gosh darnit, celebrities are marketed for entertainment but they sure as heck influence social norms) screwed up so badly. We are all people who make mistakes but abuse is not okay, ever.
Not surprised tbh as a former kpop stan we were shown almost every 2 weeks an idol was… human. Not that they didn’t do bad things, they did, but I say human because this is stuff normal folks get in trouble for ie. Bullying and saying the N-word. It becomes a scandal because of their status and sometimes antis wanting them to get in trouble then the situation turns from idol doing something wrong to their fans need to stop defending them then we lose the potentially nuanced conversation of the initial issue. It got to the point where I even stopped calling them idols fr bc what? Lol. I feel like this is headed in that direction 😭 but overall I am tired of the cycle and I’m tired of celebrities too like If they would just focus on their art or business and stop bothering us and the people that help them achieve the status they have I think the world would be better. Probably not.
I think it was easy to pretend that Lizzo was a sweet person in real life because her persona on social media was so familiar. We all had a friend or loved one that talked and acted like that.
I moved from the midwest to Houston almost 2 to 3 years ago. "Prayer" at work is fucking common here, it's honestly crazy. I'm an atheist. So I make eye contact during prayers with other atheists and non-Christians and we're always like "wtf... we're at work" and it's exhausting. It's not MANDATORY but it's always present. They never ASK, they just do... I get it, religion is important to people who feel lost or confused in their own place in the universe. But that shouldn't be MY problem, you know? I'm not only a religious minority but a racial and sexual/romantic one too. I'm TERRIFIED of being pressured into shit for work. I'm asexual and gay and genderqueer. I'm already compromising my body but pretending to be feminine presenting at work. I've turned down "coffee sometimes" a lot from male coworkers and thankfully my bosses are straight women but that's a big fear I have. I'm a brown fat woman. Who's gonna believe me, you know? This was fucking devastating to me. I've listened to Lizzo since 2016 Let Em Say. She's blocked for me on Spotify, even if she "wins" the lawsuit. I feel gross now. Forcing people into sexual situations is a big trigger for me and I refuse to support people who do that...
Yeah I feel similar. Every now and then a creator or celeb gets outed for bad behavior and I've had 0 issues dropping them. Like the whole Try Guy's issue. He was my favorite one to watch of the group but when it came out he cheated on his wife and the girl he was with cheated on her fiancé I dropped him out of my entertainment space pretty easily. Idk I didn't really feel any major loss just disappointed that yet again another famous person did a shit thing, kinda "as per usual" or "oh wow... so anyways". It's just kinda expected at this point.
I was so let down by the news. I can’t totally blame myself for trusting her but like you said, I was also expecting certain virtues from her because she’s a plus sized, queer woman of colour which is my own unfair standard. Moral of the story, never trust a celebrity lol. Although, I hate seeing people blame fans for idolizing certain celebrities when I think everyone unconsciously creates role models out of people who act inspirational. It’s important to check ourselves but it’s also people like Lizzo (and the music industry who prey on parasocial relationships) who are creating this false sense of comfort.
Thank you for emphasing how absolutely terrifying it is to go up against incredibly powerful people publically. People are so quick to assume that people make the decision to go public lightly which boggles my mind. I don't know about y'all but my well-being, safety, career, reputation, privacy, financial future, etc...is not worth the very slight chance of a one time payout and I have a hard time understanding how so many people think most people in their right mind would. The only way it makes sense is in a matter of dignity and principle because it is almost always a losing battle.
Thanks as always for offering a nuanced take. Same as you I without question believe the accusations and stand with the victims, and simultaneously am cautious in how I phrase my feelings since I've seen people JUMP to diss Lizzo in a way I have simply not seen for other celebrities (in a very, very antiblack and fatphobic way). How identities intersect with "cancel culture" (HEAVY on the quotes) seems to always get lost in the outrage. I'm furious for and wishing the best for the victims, but phew, the politics are a little messy.
As a dancer myself, I am so so so proud of them for standing up and saying how wrong it was the way they were treated because it is still widely accepted and seen as normal for dancers to be treated like that. Even if they don't win the case, it still calls to attention the terrible ways dancers are treated, and spreads the awareness that there needs to be change beyond just the dance world.
What's really insidious about lizzo looking down on her employees for seeking out other work when they could is that it cannot be easier for plus sized dancers to get work, like, period, so for Lizzo to keep them Ina chokehold like that was beyond cruel
Hey basic dude here. Really love how you expressed everything here. Never actually held Lizzo deeply as an icon for myself because I’m not a plus sized gal but I wasn’t blind to what she represented and how devastating this is. I was actually worried people would let their want for an idol that can represent them lead them down a path of victim blaming but you articulated a way for people to both hold the loss they may feel without losing ethics. For what it’s worth we never NEVER get many voices telling people they can feel the loss of an ideal but they shouldn’t turn a blind eye to bad behavior. I feel that’s why R Kelly got so wild. So in short I hope you keep doing what you do
Thank you for such a refreshing & insightful take on this situation. I've seen lots of commentary youtubers doing a totally great job covering the situation in an ethical way, but not as many really digging in to those complicated feelings about Lizzo herself & holding space for 2+ seemingly contradictory ideas to exist within 1 person. You've helped me clarify some complicated feelings I have as someone who's hardly ever surprised when celebrities turn out to have ethical issues, and yet foolishly thought Lizzo "was different." Ugh. Thanks again for an insightful video.
Thank you for speaking about this and for creating a platform for people to discuss it. I know I can always come to your channel for a respectful take on what’s going on in the world. I appreciate your sensitivity and everything you’re doing overall! Take care ❤
MINE WAS 6th grade and I really had to sit here and think if that happened at my school or not. I grew up in TN so Christian beliefs are shoved down our throats. I grew up baptist but I don’t really identify with any religion atm. So I didn’t even realize that’s what we were doing until you described it 🥲
I had a similar realization as soon as I heard about the allegations. I was holding her to a whole other standard, and that's definitely where I f'd up. I brought the initial "disappointment" on myself.
Yo, your epiphany at around the 25 min mark - I realized I was holding my own bias on this too and felt a similar way of like "but she looks so bubbly and sweet", thanks for including that in the video. I had to put myself in check lol.
Love Lizzo and just went to her show in May but I totally believed what she’s accused of when I heard it. I’ve had wildly unprofessional bosses in retail, food service and transportation, so I can imagine what nonsense goes down in show business. Doubt Lizzo had a HR department or any real training herself about what’s appropriate behavior when dealing with employees. I watched her doc on hbo and she’s crying about her man problems with the people doing her hair and makeup. Of course they probably enjoy hearing the tea but where’s the line? Those people aren’t her friends, her dancers aren’t her friends. Celebrities can be so self center and have so much power, so who on the payroll is gonna say “hey I’m just here to work, keep it professional please.”
This is by *far* the most nuanced take I've seen on this news. Thank you for helping me process my own deeply complicated emotions on this. I'm also still not sure how I feel, but this has helped me work through some of it. And you know what? Maybe it's okay not to have a firm conclusion in place yet. Maybe jumping to conclusions is *not* actually the move, ever.
i wholeheartedly agree with your take on this, especially the part about being disappointed in myself that a celeb i’ve never even met is not the perfect angel i imagined them to be. i can’t even imagine the disappointment her plus sized supporters feel.
Im so proud of these dancers for bringing these issues to light. I was sa'd by my ex and it was so incredibly hard for me to go through the legal system. I wish them all the luck in the world. Also the Naomi Campbell thing....what THE fu*k?!
I really appreciate the nuance you bring to the discussion, Tee. I was heartbroken to see that Lizzo's dancers were harmed but something in the backlash Lizzo was facing felt... Off. So much of it was focused on bashing on Lizzo, claiming she was disgusting and had always shown "signs". There was too little sympathy for the victims. Too little discussions on how we could aid or what a shame it was that a person like Lizzo eho had brought body positivity ro a new forefront had turned out to be a bad person. I'm not here to excuse Lizzo. It pains me to see that women that likely admired her and went through the same fatphobia, antiblackness and worse, eith ableism too, were taken advantage of and hurt so throughly. But it's easy to see who's here for the victims and who's here against Lizzo. I wasn't sure how to put it into words but you did it perfectly.
The thing you said about always believing accusers is so true! I'm a firm believer of innocent until proven guilty unless its with sexual harassment or assault( also regular assault or abuse) I think its crazy how some people would rather believe an accused harasser or assaulter rather than the person who claims to be sexually harassed or assaulted. Also with christians, they are allowed to be "proud" and shove it in your face with nobody thinking it isnt ok, but if somebody even talked about their religion that wasnt a christian would get sighs and groans and " omg can you go one second without talking about *blank religion*"
I think if people can accept that humans can choose to be pleasant or harmful , peaceful or violent, positive or negative - it would make it easier to not put others pedestals. Just because someone has done and said a lot of positive things doesn’t mean they don’t have the capacity to hurt others. This is for everyone, even yourself. We all have the capacity to uplift and tear down one another. I personally expect the best out of others because that’s the perspective I want to have but I do so with the mentality mentioned above. I still get disappointed but it’s not so earth shattering where I view that person as a villain or evil but more like, “damn they made some harmful decisions that I don’t vibe with now.” and remove myself from the situation. For me it’s a lot easier to do this w celebs and internet ppl bc they’re strangers and there’s no deep connection. W fam and friends, I have to practice this mentality more lol All in all I hope this situation works out well for everyone involved ❤
If Lizzo ever made you feel empowered or special, that doesnt immediately get undone by her horrendous actions; she still did good things but she also did bad things. She still did put spotlights on big girls and take the heat and open a door.
Oh Tee, I was just thinking about you the other day, I heard about some Ariana scandal and I saw some recent pictures of her being light again and I was immediately reminded of your video "When the black gaze expires".
Whew this was well done. And QUICK!! Before this release I was curious about if you were to make a video on this, if you would be touching on the ex girlfriend coming out with her lizzo story thing (which I believe was also mentioned in the tiktok you cited? But I’m not sure) and discuss the discourse around that or how it relates (or doesn’t) relate to this lawsuit. Also I know this ain’t what we talkin about but TEEEE YA LOOK SO SO GOOD 🙏🏾✨❤️🔥 hope you’re well !
Quick for sure! Haha thank you! I don't have anything to say regarding the whole ex girlfriend thing, it really didn't strike me as important for where i was going with the topic.
First and foremost Tee... This is one of your top 3 videos, for sure. Spot on, as always. The one overarching idea for me in this kerfuffle is that I really don't think that Lizzo INTENTIONALLY became this pioneer for body positivity. Her rise to stardom was purely off of her talent and star power. She's incredible. About Damn Time is one of the best pop songs of the 21st century. What I'm about to unpack here is purely how I experienced her rise to fame, and part of it is inspired by the points you made in this (FANFCKNGTANSTIC) essay. For one, I think it is largely understood, especially by Black consumers of contemporary music/sound, she makes Target/Old Navy commercial music. Which just so happens to attract predominately white audiences, specifically white women. I truly think white women saw this confident fat women that ignited this self love within them, which is far from uncommon considering we, as consumers of pop culture, bank on these artists to be representations for our human experiences. I don't think that was ever her intention. I think she just so happens to be a fat Black woman who loves to shake her a$$ while playing the flute, being herself. THEY put her on this pedastool to be the face of body positivity and fat liberation, which isn't necessarily unprecedented considering that Black women often carry the responsibility to make white people feel better about themselves and their morality. I wholeheartedly believe that all allegations against her and Sister Shirley (that part had me ROLLING) are true, 100%. Waaaaay to specific to be untrue. But you're right, she's not going anywhere. She'll go dark for a few years (they just cancelled Made In America), and will re-emerge with more tenacity and innovation than ever before. That's what she should do anyway. That notes app defense was a joke, should've never happened. And we shouldn't expect her to learn anything, take accountability for anything, or demand anything of her because we do not know that lady. Period. She doesn't owe us, as the general public, anything at all, but I think people expect her to have some sort of elevated humility because she's a fat Black woman. Maybe it will happen, and if so her pockets getting HEFTY. I see a Netflix documentary coming her way, just like they did with Kevin Hart. Thank you for this video, Tee. Good to have you back. Patiently waiting for your Renaissance World Tour review 🤪
I felt the same way about my place with parasocial relationships after the Lizzo news came out. Especially b/c I'm not really a part of stan culture, but Lizzo was a bit of an exception. It's not surprising but it's incredibly sad, and makes me wonder how much automatic trust I put into people just b/c they have nice personalities online. You don't know folk!!!
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
i don’t think there’s any failure when we assign virtue to strangers. i expect virtue from everyone, i want to project goodness as the default. it’s totally fair to be disappointed when a stranger harasses you, why not a person who is known for being good?
Oh now this is an excellent take
Beautifully worded and EXCELLENT take okayyyy❤
thank you so much for putting this into words
Yoooooooooo well said
You said my thoughts perfectly. I keep seeing comments like "well we don't know these celebrities," and I feel I don't have to know them to expect better. I don't know any of those tech execs who had sexual harassment cases/allegations during the me too era, and I don't need to know them to expect better from them and the workplaces they were creating.
Lizzo as a boss is giving major Ellen vibes. Portraying a positive message to the public all while power-tripping/mistreating staff.
FACTS. Ellen disappointed me tremendously and I wanted to rag and tag her 🍑
When people are revealed as the *exact opposite* of what they show the world- people feel the intentionality of it all, and they feel ‘betrayed’ on a much deeper level. There’s messing up, and then there’s creating a completely false persona/brand. Big difference.
you all just want to believe that Lizzo is as bad as you could have imagined.
Honestly why im cautious of anyone portraying themselves as super progressive and body posetive, they’re almost always hypocrites and ironically racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic behind the scenes, or abusive. So, super posetive and overly progressive folk makes me anxious.
Thats not to say i don’t believe on equeal right for every single human on earth, but i don’t go around making it my personality.
Astronauts in space don’t count lol
It is 100% illegal to REQUIRE prayer in the workplace at all, especially if it's against the stated religious beliefs (includes aetheism) of an employee. If anyone will corroborate her claim it's a direct violation of the civil rights act of 1964.
I think Tee is agreeing that legally you're probably right, but culturally you might have a hard time getting the jury to see this as a problem amongst all the other problems
most celebs pray before a show including Beyonce
@@juicyparsons For almost any other situation I'd agree, but the civil rights act of 64 is a really, really big deal here in the US. It's one of the central pillars of our modern legal system. Any judge ruling that mandatory prayer was acceptable in a workplace might actually end that judge's career-- it would be grounds for an appeal at the very least. I think where they might have a hard time is proving that the prayer circles were actually mandatory, and that the dancers would lose their jobs if they didn't attend. If they have messages or emails from management stating that the prayers were required, that might win them the case. But, if they have to try to convey that it was a 'culture of fear' type situation where attendance wasn't technically mandatory but everyone knew it was, that ambiguity will be hard for them to prove. Especially if their colleagues aren't willing to testify.
@@Lakishia Prayer in the workplace is fine. Mandatory prayer in the workplace is a hard no on a federal level. You can hold a prayer circle for your company, but forcing your employees to attend is religious discrimination. Until the civil rights act of 64 is struck down (sometimes i think it's only a matter of time...), it's completely illegal to do that in the US.
In the complaint it says that it is not officially mandatory but sort of expected. I don’t think that they can use this as religious discrimination or anything illegal if they themselves admit that it is not actually mandatory
what's shitty is people using this as an excuse to be fatphobic, racist, and misogynistic towards lizzo as if the victims themeselves aren't fat black women. like obviously we know that they don't actually care about any of the real problems in regards to the lawsuit, but i wish they would at least be honest about their intentions instead trying to frame what they're doing as Good and Just
‼️
It's very brave to publicly hold celebrities accountable in an industry where people so often get black-listed, so I admire the women bringing Lizzo to court for that.
I do too. Weird anecdote but I have a family friend who did lots of extra work in shows like Game of Thrones, several Marvel movies, etc. and you wouldn't believe the amount of s*xual harassment that goes on in plain sight of big celebrities, perpetuated by big celebrities, and hushed up by big celebrities. It's heartbreaking. Another friend of mine worked in a very trendy and fancy hotel in London that hosted a lot of male celebs from the early 2000s, and the amount of them that targeted questionably aged girls *exclusively* is shocking. *EDITING TO BE MORE VAGUE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE SMOKE FROM THIS DUDE WHO'S A KNOWN CREEPER* : Perhaps maybe allegedly a man who might've been in a famous film concerning animals and time goofs... maybe possibly allegedly who may also be a bit threatening so I have no desire to get in their sights...
same
Tbf, there isnt a market really for plus sized dancers in the industry outside of what Lizzie provided. There’s some but it’s far and few between.
These girls had nothing to lose because they no longer worked for Lizzo.
@@RealElongatedMuskratOH ! CATCH THAT TEA ! 👁️ 🫖
@@TENOVISION idk nothing about nothing, all allegedly in Minecraft don't come for me thank uuuuu
That DEEP adoration the dancers had for her creates a situation where power abuse is just so easy and normalized. It’s giving cult leader vibes …
And this applies to all celebrities btw
I think you make a very valuable point here on the power abuse dynamic given that yes, they did idolize her, enough to audition and be on her show and work their asses off. Agree with you completely here.
💯🎯💯🎯 yes. Very well said. it was very much seemingly giving 'High control group with a cult-like atmosphere'. Everything from the hierarchy to the encouraged 'hive mind mentality'...
Yes! There's so much social pressure within a tight-knit group to conform and not rock the boat. It makes it very easy for abuse to occur.
Idk, as a victim of gross&weird sexual harassment I stand with the women Lizzo (& others) victimized. I was also a fan of Lizzo (she's super talented) but nah, I'm out and I definetly believe the accusers as I usually do. Being sex positive and sexually liberated doesn't give you the right to force anything of a sexual nature on nonconsenting folks, so I don't think a lot of people looking into this and speaking out against Lizzo are fatphobic in nature, I do think people who already hated on Lizzo before any of these allegations (mostly because she's fat) could be suspicious in why they are vocal about the situation
Remove that idk from the beginning of your comment; you said what you said!!
I have to say the people I have known in my life who talked the most and the loudest about being "sex positive" were always the ones putting others into incredibly uncomfortable situations almost constantly. The amount of times just one particular woman harassed me into showing more skin, touching or being touched by people I wasn't comfortable with, being in photos I didn't want to be in was astronomical. And she did it to anyone and everyone who came to certain events.
that perceived blurred line between sex positive and sexually inappropriate behaviour without consideration for the targeted individuals involved is something that has played on my mind for years. I've seen it, I've felt uncomfortable being in the vicinity of it, and I'm glad more conversations are being had around it.
You don’t have to put “idk” when you know what you’re talking about 😊
this didn’t age well cause it just came out they were lying 😭
This is the most thoughtful and critical commentary on this whole situation I have seen on the internet thus far. From calling out the fatphobic biases, to critiquing celebrity idolization, to the dark realities of the entertainment industry, and highlighting what's actually on the line for the suing party. Excellent commentary.
Thank you!
One thing *Tee will do is give us a nuanced and well thought out perspective! ❤
AGREED, this was the take I've been waiting for
Agreed
This is why I never have an issue waiting for Tee’s commentary. The woman gives SUBSTANCE!!
As someone who just finished their law degree the assault might stand because there is a difference between assault and battery. Battery is the act of actually touching someone else and causing harm, Assault is just the threat of violence. Balling up your fists and having to be restrained deffo counts as assault in my opinion and there’s more than enough case law to support. But yeah depends if the courts want to take it seriously.
HEYYYY i graduated a year ago CONGRATULATIONSSSSSS and hope the bar went well
Agreed. They may have something to stand on for that but a lot of the other allegations don’t seem to hold much weight. Have your read the full document yet?
@@madixxoo I haven’t gotten a chance to! Just seen a few pages here and there
@@jazisajoke8688I recently did and they really don’t have much here. I imagine the court of opinion being way harder on Lizzo than the law will be. Most of the allegations aren’t even against her, they’re against the dance captain, and most of the allegations are rooted in “I felt like…” not actual things that were said or even implied by Lizzo or her team.
@@madixxoo yeah that’s what i seem to be getting. the dance coach and management hold a bulk of the claims. I’ll always believe the victims as Tee said but obviously recognise how the public has been waiting for a chance to jump on her (although rightfully so in this case) I actually just did a dissertation about Lizzo and the hate she gets from the public 😭 so this hit vv close to home.
i wasnt even a huge lizzo fan, but this one hurt as a fat girl. i knew objectively any celebrity could be capable of this, hell any regular person could be, but this one hurt. i really appreciate your nuanced view as always, and you clocking the fatphobia that people are allowing just because its lizzo. and just in case anyone comes for me, obviously and always i stand with the victims and survivors. i just wish lizzo had known and acted better. sigh. also, so good to see you back tee!
One thing about having millions of dollars and power is that it leads to an inflated sense of self-importance and often the ability to abuse your power~ No celebrity is to be adored!
@@nwatson2773 I wonder what the line is where a normal person goes from being normal, to realizing they can do things like that and not have anyone say anything.
So many people were salivating for a chance to attack Lizzo like this and now they have gotten what they wanted. I'm not saying I disbelieve her accusers but it would be crushing if these were falsehoods that ruined this woman who moved the needle forward for so many plus sized performers. That being said, if the allegations are proven true, I will stand with the victims.
Tasteofashes1196, exactly. You worded what I’ve been trying to say. I 100% believe the victims bcz the industry is so weird. I just hate that anytime a fat person or a black women does something wrong all the fatphobia and misogynoir comes out
@@nwatson2773 I think it's a chicken-egg situation. You almost have to believe your own hype to gain the popularity and commercial success in the first place, which further leads you down the road of license to feel important while everyone else is lesser. I just think only egotistical people tend to seek that kind of commercial, big-name stardom. People without the ego-drive tend to have different artistic goals than money and fame.
Thank you so much for this nuanced video, Tee! First of all, it is extremely rare to see someone who isn't overweight to understand and speak out about fat phobia, and I appreciate how you brought that into the discussion. Secondly, I was struggling to understand why I was feeling so completely devastated by this, and I think you articulated it perfectly. And then giving yourself the space to feel your sense of loss in a para-social relationship made me realize that I can do the same. Really, I was engaging with a ideal of Lizzo, and I'm now suffering the loss of that ideal (which I'm sure no one could measure up to anyway). Thirdly, the way you showed that we can believe victims, even when they don't prevail in court (we know the judicial system really protects employers)- PERFECT! We need more of your videos - you always seem to remind me how nuanced things are, and how it's okay for me to feel more than one way about a thing. Thank you again, and I sure hope we'll be seeing more of your videos!
This was such a thoughtful comment and I thank you so much for it
Thank you!!!🥰
Well said! Completely agree. The context provided means *so* much.
Agree with you though just so you know overweight is a medicalised fatphobic term so please use the word fat, plus size, person of size or something in future 💜
@@cordeliaistheone I’m sure your intentions are good, but people can use whatever words they want.
“Overweight” is a scientific term with a specific definition. It’s also a medical classification. You can say or think whatever you want- it doesn’t make it true.
Watched this while my devout Christian mother (and Lizzo fan) was relaxing in the living room with me and I think it really helped her see other people’s perspectives on this whole situation. She’s been trying to be more open minded over the last few years and I’m really glad we both got a chance to calmly discuss all the issues you went over in this…thank you for this video, Tee 💛
i’m glad that you and your mom were able to talk about this!! sending so much love and support both of your ways- trying to change isn’t easy, but it’s one of the most important things we can do. i hope she knows that even the small steps are huge victories.
Support for constructive intergenerational discussions!
That's a relationship to be proud of!
this is inspiring !! hope you both grow and learn together.
Wow. You and your mom sound great! Maybe there's hope for humanity yet?!
Well done. 😊
That's awesome! 💕
I feel like this situation is an example of why we shouldn’t hold up celebs as ‘unproblematic faves.’ Like everyone is capable of bad behavior. I also saw someone talking about how most celebrities don’t have any actual leadership experience and don’t know how to be a ‘boss’ in the literal sense. I definitely feel like that’s part of this situation.
Not knowing how to be a boss and being a terrible person are still two different things tho :/
Seeing the typical “me too” “feminist” women in her comments on Instagram completely bullying the victims while gassing up Lizzo was disappointing but ultimately unsurprising. Celebs are just the worsttttr
D:
Same, I dont like how this creator is low-key hoping Lizzo's career continues after that. Its giving 🍇 apologist.
right ,seeing kristin chenoweth and penelope from criminal minds gassing her up in her comments had me like ☹️
nah I saw Lizzo live in Berlin and there's no way I'm cancelling her after she ate that performance upppp
It's honestly heartbreaking how celebrities can get away with whatever. they. want.
19:51 the whole Red Light District thing doesn’t surprise me but it makes me sad bc I’ve been in Arianna’s shoes…I don’t wanna go into my personal peer pressure situation but a similar example would be: when bachelorettes/sorority girls invite everyone in their group out to a male strip show or something similar and one of the girls CLEARLY isn’t down to be danced on or interact with the performers so they get called “lame” or “a party pooper” by the rest of the group (which doesn’t make it okay obviously but it does happen and makes you feel shitty)
I can only imagine how I’d feel if MY JOB was on the line
Exactly… I feel bad for them because it is a type of emotional abuse that isn’t “extreme” enough that many wouldn’t categorise it as such.
They are brave to expose Lizzo for her horrendous behaviour. I don’t know if they’ll win their suit but hopefully they get some healing out of the process of telling their story
I think the issue of whether fatphobia made you presume Lizzo is harmless is valid but also theres another element. I think we presume people who are allies are good because they are exhibiting a moral virtue that in society’s eyes is optional. The basic human rights of minorities and oppressed are deemed “political issues”, and thus abstract. This creates the problematic idea imo that caring about those rights - sexual violence for women, black lives matter, transgender murder, etc - is abstract political discourse instead of an objective sign on whos humanity we have to protect /care about to be deemed “good people”. Compassion is biased, so when we see people like Lizzo actively voicing support and sympathizing with other oppressed groups she does not have to to be deemed a good person in society…its hard to disentangle that from the idea that she is good and cant be cruel because its relatively rare to begin with and absolutely optional in our current world.
hi can u explain ur comment further I didn't quite get it and english isn't my native language
I wonder why everyone is speaking with this type of box words and phrases, who started? Just be authentic and restrict yourself from parroting others
Exactly
So beautifully said, and something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately💜
@@casper1343 Hmmm I can try I am not the best....Basically because Lizzo has spoken up on various social issues on behalf of different communities - such as the black community, plus sized/fat community, lgbtq, etc - communities that are less valued or often unheard in society, we think she's a good person, especially since she doesn't have to support these communities to be popular. She could stay silent like many do and still be loved, but she chooses to empower these groups with her voice despite knowing she could stay silent. Due to this, we presume she's a good person
Re: imprisonment: the entertainment industry does this regularly. The cast of Love is Blind were held without access to wallets or phones in a hotel room. They couldn't even access water without asking. It is very fucked up and also everything alleged in the suit is so normalized in the entertainment industry. I feel for them and I'm sad to know someone I looked up to is capable of this.
I was in a toxic work environment for several years where nothing "happened," but the palpable hostility, microaggressions and twisted politics surrounding me were so damaging to me that I still suffer from physical and mental health complications to this day, several years later. The worst part was that I couldn't make any concrete claims about what was happening. What was I supposed to say, that someone used a slightly condescending tone, even though what they said was fine? That everyone looked at me like something was my fault, even though no words were spoken? I felt like I was going crazy, and no one seemed to care. Honestly, getting slapped around would've been so much better, I can handle direct conflict, but that mess was too much for me.
The only thing I can say is, if you're in a situation that is harming you in any way, get yourself out of there. Whatever you're sacrificing to be there is worth more than what you're supposedly gaining. And yes, I'm talking about family too. I put up with the workplace toxicity for too long because I was used to tolerating that kind of treatment. I wish there was a way for bullies to get their comeuppance, but oftentimes they don't, and accepting that fact and choosing a better life for myself has made me a much happier person.
The fear of losing your job as a dancer is real. The culture is very much say yes to everything, act right, and know your place.
It is rare to be treated with sometimes the most basic humanity. These huge stars have the mentality that you should be grateful just to be picked because other people would kill to replace you. Too often they’re not seen as professionals in their field that are just as much apart of the show as the main performer. Being a professional dancer is ranked one of the highest physically demanding jobs! Yet we stay underpaid with minimal protection against situations these women were put in. There is a greater conversation to be had surrounding dancers rights and how we can collectively combat the normalized mistreatment in our WORKPLACES.
Not exactly the same thing but a big example of dancers not being respected for what they do is the 2022 Super Bowl halftime show. The dancers were not paid, neither was Mary J Blige but it’s not the same! Ugh how is the biggest sporting event in america ,that generates so much revenue, does not pay the hundreds of dancers that rehearse for weeks for the halftime show that literally everyone watches. Make it make sense.
Not a dancer, but got my degree in technical theatre & worked as a scenic artist for a bit before leaving the industry. I *loved* the work, but the culture of 'we're a family, why are you not willing to put in double the hours you agreed to in your contract, do you *want* to be branded difficult & unwilling to give your all?' just got to be too much.
Artists love making art, but we still need money for rent, food, etc.
That’s how you know we are similar in age cos these kids barely know who Naomi Campbell is let alone remembering her drug induced violence towards her former employees. Y’all remember when she hit her assistant with her cell phone????
Omg you just took me back! She was a trip
Chileeeee
Or the SHIRT she wore in public that said "I got hit by Naomi and I loved it". Good God - how did people find that funny?
I honestly only have vague memories of _something_ about her throwing a phone. I'm a couple years ahead of Tee and l honestly only remember people rebutting her detractors with accusation of racism and next thing I know, she's just the misunderstood baddie Supermodel who Tyra tried to take down.
And her career remains unaffected..
I don't expect celebrities to be perfect, but I am disappointed by all of this behavior, especially the ableism, fatphobia, and sexual harassment. She can be allowed to be human and have bad days where she is mean, rude, etc, but that other mess is an abuse of power. Such a shame.
That's the thing that really gets me about all of this is that the bigots were waiting for this. Whether it's Lizzo, Amber Heard, Johnathan Majors (I believe) or even a person like Meghan Markle. People wait for their downfall then justify their misogyny and racism with whatever the person did. But in regards to Lizzo and Johnthan Major's Believe The Victims Always. Especially if your favourite celebrity is the one being accused.
Real
Truth. That’s why it’s a nuance topic!
I have always been one to listen to victims first. But I will say that there are people who defended Johnathan Majors and Tory Lanez, but are demanding Lizzo’s head. Even the ones who say “I usually wait” are just jumping at Lizzo. It’s just misogyny. There’s people who just want to be justified in never listening to women when they come out and say they were harmed.
Of the four, one of them is not like the others. 🧐
@@rahbeeuh Your absolutely Right Meghan never did anything wrong. It's Just she is a prime example of a person being attacked for their Race and Gender. I honestly believe that hate against her isn't justified but at the slightest misstep she will be attacked.
I feel like the big difference between Lizzo and a lot of the other people in entertainment who do terrible things is that she made a big part of her brand being inclusive and more ethical, at least on the surface. The fact that she made that her brand while allegedly torturing her employees is definitely going to alienate some people, who really were with her because of that positive branding. Honestly, I think she really positioned herself as an advocate and ally, which is why so many people expected better from her.
I don't think this will end her career, but definitely, a lot of people are going to jump ship. I was never really a die-hard fan, but I appreciated her talent and liked some of her songs, and now I really don't want to hear from her.
If you go through life knowing almost all rich people are moral mutants it makes it much easier. You stop looking up to celebrities and oligarchs and see them for what they are.
and once you see them for what they are it’s hard to unsee. The crazy part is people will try to convince you that it doesn’t matter or you just want to be “different”
Someone else pointed out that the way lizzo used her employees as pseudo friends -leveraging her power as boss to force their behaviors in "casual" contexts - is actually EXTREMELY common with rich people. And I suddenly went back to all the reality shows I've seen where they call their assistants their friends and stuff like that and realized why so many rich women in the industry are backing her. Because they think they're entitled to use poor laborers as play things.s
What’s so disheartening is that Lizzo was living out of her car at one point, but I guess once you accumulate so much wealth without it corrupting you. Or maybe you can’t accumulate that wealth to begin with if u ain’t corrupt hmm 🤔
@@n.l.s.4346 I mean, getting huge success in a dirty industry requires a certain lack of empathy and self centeredness .
This is why there should be a limit to how much power one person can hold. At a certain point, you can't hold it down anymore. And to climb that ladder, you have to step on other people.
I wish people can stop looking up to celebrities in general. We know why they are where they are.
Exactly. The more we stop forming these parasocial relationships with celebrities, the less we'll feel-more or less-"betrayed" by their actions.
I don’t think this is so much people looking up to her because she’s famous. It’s that she represented something to a lot of people.
@@withlovetumi isn't it the same with family and friends?
@@JessieBanana loving and letting go...its an art for sure
@@ivania321I mean, I'm not sure how a parasocial relationship can apply to people we already know. I was mostly referring to people who we really don't know at all. Not people we have personal relationships with.
YES YES YES thank you so much for calling out Christianity's double standard in the US. As an atheist its exhausting ...
As a fan of Lizzo I still feel the same I did upon originally hearing it. I did have to reevaluate my love for her when she said Chris Brown was one of her favorite people. That statement has never felt right to me and had me questioning some things about her. My main issue with the pushback is that had she been more conventionally attractive and not fat like other faves this would've been played down. As mentioned Naomi Campbell has assaulted multiple employees and still has a career, still highly sought after and still getting her flowers. Doesn't make Lizzo less wrong but hella people would be requesting to join the crew to have their "mean mommy" fave step on them. I just want the same energy for all as if we haven't been watching Onika bully for over a decade openly now. Lizzo was wrong for her part in all this but I'm not going to crucify her. Sounds like the line was blurred often between employer vs friend and that is a definite no. Especially if you feel your friends don't have the right to say no to you 👀 also weird.
TDLR: Am I surprised by this? No, but I am disappointed.
Glad you said this! I've lived a little and made plenty of my own mistakes in life so far, so I'm not exactly jumping for joy how others are when devastating news comes out about certain celebrities behind the scenes lives vs. the public face we see, but I can say I've been waiting for a while now for Nicki to get her own video tbh. She needs one QUICKLY.
i do want the dancers’ stories to be at the center of the conversation, and it’s been hard to have this come right after the ozempic craze and a slew of formerly fat celebrities being like “don’t put me in a body positivity box. it’s too much pressure to be a role model.” which would be also a valid conversation if there were literally anyone else doing what Lizzo was doing for fat representation.
Holding one (1) shitty person accountable should not mute 95% of the conversation in entertainment about loving our fat bodies, but it feels like that’s what is going to happen. i’m grateful there’s a space here where i can talk about this without being hit with “so you don’t care about sexual assault???!?!!?”
I love how clear and nuanced you portray the whole situation! This is so professional AND empathetic 🥰
tee is a beacon of engaging with grey, complicated situations and coming out on top
@@bugzilly yes, it‘s such a valuable skill
I don't worship Lizzo or anything, but I thought she would be nicer because of the message she puts out. Thus, I'm not going to lie, I was very disappointed. It took me a couple of days to process because I didn't expect it. There are celebrities I look at and think "Yeah you're probably mean" or there are celebrities where you can see their flaws... I guess with Lizzo I rarely saw them. Soo yeah it's been eye opening
See I never felt that I always got she was very strict with her work ethic as she had many hurdles and her TikTok very much tells you she's rowdy, I meet many Lizzos in my life and I'm just 24 aside from the piss incident many of these scenarios really hard to get masses to understand cause the club scenario and force prayers would not faze another dancer who vibes the same so someone seeing her info and being kind I wish told her way earlier this not a good fit for you, I wonder did she sign a contract she couldn't get out of cause I wished she left at first sign then maybe her name wouldn't be dead in this line of work breaks my heart for her.
As someone who was bullied relentlessly as a youth, I don’t assume anyone is nice or kind; I must get to know them personally. To me anyone can be a bully, no matter their public persona, attractiveness, or good works. I let people show me who they are then react accordingly. 😊
I love that you bring up Naomi Campbell. You hear nothing but praise surrounding her. Yeah, we get it, she's stupidly successful as a model and ages better than any of us. Apparently if you're skinny enough, you can do whatever.
I was also heartbroken when I learned about the Lizzo incident. I was reluctant to believe it at first on the small chance that it wasn't true. But as more stories came out and found out the lawyer Lizzo hired was the same one that defended Chris Brown and Bill Cosby in the past, I'm inclined to believe the women who're going up against Lizzo. And now knowing more details thanks to your video, it's so much worse than I thought it was.
I don't blame myself for putting faith in Lizzo that she was a good person, despite being aware I'm in a parasocial relationship with her. I also know I had to be careful about putting people on pedestals. And I did think about if a celebrity or influencer I loved was problematic what would I do. I didn't think about how I'd feel. I know people have flaws and would rather have celebrities and influencers make actual apologies, take accountability, and make reparations to the people they harmed. And then I felt like I was tested by the dang universe with Lizzo. I had to figure out where I drew the line on how I feel about and interact with her art. I mean we should hold people, whether it be strangers, celebs, or influencers to a standard of being a decent and kind person. And that includes Lizzo. Yes, she made strides in the music industry and pop culture, but like you said we can acknowledge that truth at the same time as her being a mean person behind the scenes.
I'm more angry and disappointed in Lizzo. I followed her since 2016 and saw her Special concert in 2022. Her songs comforted me through the worse times in my life, they were integral to my healing. I cried to my therapist yesterday about the Lizzo situation. I mentioned in past therapy sessions how Lizzo helped comfort and heal me. I ended up crying harder than I thought I would about this. Hell, at the end of my session I was still crying (which my therapist was concerned about) and cried some more afterwards. I was a huge fan and rooted for her. I had interacted with narcisstic and toxic people in the past and she helped me heal from that. But now knowing she's narcissistic and toxic too, I don't know how I'll interact with her songs anymore. I know I can't listen to them atm because now I'm reminded or those horrible people and that Lizzo is one of them until she apologizes and atones for her actions. I'm at a lost of what to do for myself. But if anything, I'm reminded that even talented people can be toxic and horrible; and their talent doesn’t excuse their behavior.
I think we need to start having long in depth lectures in public school about work place professionalism. The problem is that even with HR, even with legal precedent in place, there's no real clear guidelines laid out to young people about limitations and boundaries. Right now there's a high emphasis in America on hustle culture, on grinding endlessly and fighting your way to the top. And because of how career focused this country is and how we force everyone's lives to revolve around their careers, people don't know when too far is too far. These women were not just Lizzo's friends, they were her employees. But I'm sure in her mind, she thought she was just messing around. And a lot of people think that way in lots of professional environments. We aren't given social spaces to freely express ourselves in a non-professional way with colleagues and friends. Most adults make friends with coworkers because there's very few other places to find people to interact with. And while that doesn't excuse any of her actions, Lizzo here is just a symptom of the larger problem. People have to keep their lives to themselves in the work place within reason. If you wanna push yourself to the extremes, that's just you, not your employees. If you want to go to strip clubs and let loose with friends, make friends that want to do that, not just your coworkers. It needs to be made expressly clear that that's what being an adult means. In school they let you get away with goofing off in class cause you're still young and figuring things out. But some people get to college and kick that shit to an 11, and then never break those patterns. They're rewarded for being "outgoing" and often treated better because people see them as "entertaining" (which is likely why so many of these public cases are about entertainers). But that pursuit of happiness can't impede upon someone else's liberties. Or worse, someone else's livelihood. The thing they need to survive.
I really appreciate you bringing up the unfair bias society has for Christianity and how if Muslims dared to act like so many of these rude Christian’s people would be freaking out.
I sick by Lizzo's statement and the lawyer she chose to represent her. Taking accountability and responsibility as someone who holds a large amount of power and influence over people is the LEAST that she can do. Do we have to see her acts of abuse televised Tyra Banks style for her to realize she is not immune to Abuse of Power???? But like you said, I also believe that Lizzo is fully aware of the power she holds over the women she works with and she abused her power intentionally for her own gain and pleasure. Sick, but not at all surprised imo. No one in the entertainment industry is immune
Wishing the best to the dancers, Ariana, Crystal, and Noelle, and hope they can find fulfilling work somewhere else in the entertainment industry, if they still want to at this point.
When I heard which lawyer would represent her I was like... Um does she realise that makes her look more guilty?
In all honesty we have to get out of this good person bad person mentality. There is no such thing as a good person or bad person.Its people who do good things or bad things.
People who do bad things repeatedly and feel no remorse ARE bad people. Everybody makes mistakes, but good people recognize their mistakes and learn from them were as bad people don't care and keep doing it over and over again. There are indeed "bad" people. In fact, there are people who are downright EVIL.
I don't know if avoiding parasocial relationships altogether is possible - our brains aren't wired for how we engage with strangers/famous people on the internet.
engaging with those relationships critically and keeping them in check is maybe the best we can do!
This whole situation breaks my heart, I didn't listen to Lizzo's music before and obviously not now, but I did loved Lizzo. I admired her a lot for the things she had done for fat people, for us to be taken seriously and not as a joke in many branches of entertainment and in society in general tbh (obviously I don't think Lizzo was THE only one to do this but you can't lie Lizzo had a lot to do with this change). I am a Hispanic, fat bisexual woman, and to see a fat woman of color in a stage being herself made me feel happy about myself, I felt hopeful of the sorts, that no matter what I look like I could achieve anything, and I adored Lizzo for that, she was like a beacon of hope of the sorts to me and for many I would like to think.
When i first saw the news, honestly i couldn't believe it at first but then it did ended up being real and it made me genuinely sad, not for Lizzo but for first of all, the victims and for fat people in general.
So happy to see a video! 💞
I'm someone who tries as best as I humanly can to not form all sorts of parasocial relationships with celebs, or really pay attention to online drama anymore. I place my value first and foremost about the people in my personal life, especially now that I'm finding more worthwhile stuff to spend my time on. Even as someone who I suppose... used to admire Lizzo? Who absolutely wants the victims to have their peace, their privacy and closure that they need--it still stung. And I found it was less so because 'someone I thought was cool wasn't all that perfect' since I don't want to view ANYONE as perfect, and more because the rate at which I saw people (mostly skinny people lol) come out of nowhere to say stuff like "She always felt off to me" or that "I knew all along she was bad I just didn't have proof". As you said, WOW the fatphobia is off the charts omg!
All of a sudden, if someone like Lizzo 'turns out to be a bad person' it gives rise to all the people to once again to make the "always thought she was ugly/bad and now I can shame her for her appearance publicly since she's problematic" comments. Just straight up vitriolic fatphobia and racism from people who months ago were trying to celebrate her (and now people can see how surface level that support really was). I sadly expect it every time something like this happens now as a fat person. The way fat people have to specifically remind thin people to not make comments like that... always so exhausting.
But anyway... I really hope that the victims that are suing get their peace and compensation. They deserve everything and the support, I just wish people weren't so surface level they resorted to fatphobia to show it, and you KNOW they only care about 'looking righteous for talking shit about the problematic person of the week'. Especially since from what I remember multiple of the victims are also reporting they were shamed and discriminated against for being fat too!! 😵💫
Hard agree! The fat phobia coming out is crazy. What Lizzo (allegedly) did was and is disgusting. But to act like it’s suddenly okay to make fun of her body? Trash.
I’m not a big fan of lizzo but she was truly the only fat and black pop girly. And my heart breaks for the little girls who finally have a pop star to look up to. I hope they don’t see the fatphobic comments coming Lizzos way. But as you said she likely did do these things and I hope those girls get some form of Justice.
The internet can be a weird place sometimes. We've got people on the internet debunking these lawsuits made by the victims as lies, that they were solely after the money. Honestly, this shocked me ngl, so I do see why they would not believe them at first because Lizzo's entire 'feel good music' brand stems from body positivity and self-confidence. Like this is a special case of separating the art from the artist because this shows that Lizzo has been contradicting herself behind the scenes. This goes to show that we as people shouldn't put celebrities on a high pedestal for representing a demographic that the entertainment industry and society as a whole view as undesirable. The fact that she made the song 'Rumours' 😭.
Agreed. And also, we need more discussions on how art making has been extremely separated from what it takes to be successful in the business of art. If art as a business requires a person to be an asshole to survive in the game, why do we keep acting so surprised by the vile actions of celebrities? I hope we can get honest about what we have decided it takes to be successful at business, in every industry
One thing I've realized is you can never judge someone by how they advocate for themselves -- look at how they ally themselves with others (or if they don't). Lizzo spoke up for fat women, for women in male dominated industries, etc, but that's also a self serving thing to do. Lizzo clearly loves lizzo and lizzo benefits from that advocacy. Better tells of a person's likely moral character is how they speak on behalf of others, especially if it contradicts their own self interest. Not 100% accurate obviously.
Moral of the story idolize no one
what upsets me right now is the reaction to this lawsuit. people are using lizzo’s actions as a way to fatshame her and be awful to her. i can fully understand what she’s done is such an awful thing and i hope the dancers get justice. it’s just so unfair that lizzo will have to be punished so much more than any (white skinny especially male) others who have commit crimes in the workplace. i’m almost certain those backup dancers didn’t ask for lizzo’s messages to be lost - all that activism shouldn’t be forgotten . misogynoir and fat phobia continues to exist. we shouldn’t always jump to hate on people, because it’s false i’m sure these people shaming lizzo don’t really care for these girls. be kind or don’t say anything at all in regards to something people cannot change.
the thing about parasocial relationships is they’re entirely subconscious. sure you can try to keep yourself in check but your brain literally cannot differentiate the different between seeing someone you know every day and seeing a celebrity posting videos and talking to their fans as if they’re friends every day. unless you completely stop engaging with celebrities outside of consuming their art, i don’t know if there’s a way to actively combat the development of a parasocial relationship
When you said you expected Lizzo to be sweet because she's a big black woman and it's internalized fatphobia I felt that SO hard. Like she is a pretty big girl who looks like one of my family members or one of my homegirls and the big black women I know in my life are always the ones to go out of their way for people and are super kind and I kinda projected that idea onto Lizzo herself. Idk if that is really internalized fatphobia bc I know we all know big girls who are just the fucking coolest people to be around and I think we all kinda projected that onto the only really visible representation of that woman.
Thiiiissss. Maybe it is internalised fat phobia because it boils down to looking the way you do, you should be nice since being fat is seen as a disqualifying factor for like-ability. It's just what we've seen and grown accustomed to, but having the dialogue to challenge our own beliefs is fantastic.
I just wished to say, I really love the self awareness and your ability to let us watch your own inner thought process of your parasocial relationship vision in real time. It feels more human, not as if you're speaking on a higher ground which is hard to find within social commentary youtubers. We all need to work on this and I respect you a lot for that, Tee
Don't feel bad babes💕, I felt the same thing but I don't think it's fully from a parasocial standpoint. Lizzo represented alot of change to people, body autonomy, fat acceptance and love, economic change and women's empowerment. Also queer women's specifically black bi women's most 'respectful and unapologetic' representative. It's alot to let go of, there aren't really celebrities that are both highly visible and such a bold ally/member like Lizzy was in the mainstream, she's made STRIDES for other marginalized people. I think that pain you feel is a loss of community bc Lizzo was meant to be a safe place for us😫. Plus the Vail lifting on such a strong ally is just so fucking painful to watch. Personally as a black queer woman myself, I'm terrified of the repercussion we'll face when the media inevitably frames her as a predator..
Y'all shouldn't put value in what celebrities do, to begin with. If you go outside the internet/TV, you will see it's all just buzzwords that don't change reality.
They know people are innocent and fall for this bullshit.
@@vidaverde5047 there’s truth to what your saying definitely! But I think she made a good point considering we’re in a very internet driven culture. We can try to stay off it and act like we don’t know these people but wether we like it or not they’re going to have somewhat of an impact on how people view marginalized groups of people. I wasn’t surprised just disappointed. It becomes hard to critique celebrities when you have them spreading a public image and on top of that they like to make it seem like they’re great people who we’ve seen get unfairly scrutinized before. I’m not talking about lizzo personally ofc she fucked up but I’m talking about celebrities and artists in general.
@@vidaverde5047 I feel like this is dangerous lines of thinking only because yes, it is the internet. It, ideally, shouldn't have much political/social bearing on life offline, but it definitely does, for better and for worse. I just think this was a case of being in the wrong place at the right time because she was already seen as a throwaway person, as well as her victims and the identities/communities they represent.
It's like they've been holding out a trashcan this whole time, waiting for her to jump head first into it, and now she has to since there is no coming back from this. I find the timing so interesting, too, since Travis Scott just came back, but notice how it was in Rome and not in the U.S. (where his repercussions are!), and how Tory Lanes just now got sentenced! The other two people mentioned, are obviously not related at all to these events surrounding Lizzo and her camp, but I hate to see it all happen. I can't imagine, if the allegations are true, what the victims are going through right now. They're gonna need hella therapy after all this mess.
@@vidaverde5047It isn’t buzzwords. You sound slow.
I feel so bad for the victims :( I hope they get justice
FR this hurt to see esp since we rlly cant separate her acts from her entire brand (like?? it’s literally the opposite of what she marketed herself as😭). Ngl yes theres a bunch of underlying fatphobic takes coming out but im also more concerned by the amount of discrediting going on abt the accusers, framed as fatphobic attacks on lizzo like- , these allegations are her own dancers that are also big, black women bffr 😭😭😭
You do know that if this never happened and Lizzo got even more famous she could just easily ditch the whole fat branding and guzzle down the ozempic, get skinny and avoid the health risks of obesity? The only people who would be affected is the fans who took her branding seriously. Celebrities never believe in the things they tell their fans, their image is just marketing and not actually how they view themselves.
"so much to lose and so little to gain" is how I see nearly every case of talking publicly about abuse. the claims of these situations being fake or for attention almost never make sense
even where the victim (rarely) wins the lawsuit or whatever, there's still so much to lose in terms of bullying and harassment from strangers and community, getting mired and stuck engaging with the abuser long-term while stuff is sorted, and monetary stuff being up in the air bc engaging with the legal system is prohibitively expensive. I can't see doing this unless you truly believe it's the right thing for you and maybe future victims. horrible process, luck and strength to anyone who goes through it
100%
Exactly
I’m so glad you brought up the undercurrent of fatphobia when it comes to Lizzo’s cancelation. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else have such a nuanced approach to analyzing this situation. I stand with victims always so I’m rooting for these girls to at least get some type of justice, but this is not an excuse to fat shame Lizzo.
That being said, Lizzo’s actions are so disgusting and especially disappointing for me because since the song “Special” came out, I listen to it nearly every morning on my commute and I loved Watch Out for the Big Grrrls. I loved that there was a plus sized icon of color because as a mid-sized black girl, Lizzo made me feel safe and seen too. I’m not usually the type of person that idolizes people, and I think we shouldn’t put celebrities on pedestals, but for someone whose whole brand and persona is based on self-love, acceptance, and positivity this one felt like a punch to the stomach.
On the topic of purity culture and imposition of Christianity: when I was in my freshman year of high school, they gave us PHYSICAL v-cards and by signing them we were pledging abstinence 💀
I would have had so much fun being an atheist with the dance captain bc I don’t care about dancing for Lizzo. I’m also raised Baptist which I consider a PhD in atheism in my case
last sentence is way too true. i wasn’t raised baptist but attended my friend’s baptist church a few times and know several ppl who grew up that way and we’re all either agnostic or atheist now 😂
I'm from South africa. Like every other country.. We consume American culture. ALOT. Something that I have noticed about American celebrities is that they use statements like "I dissapointed the idea of me that you have in your mind" "Other people have done worse but I'm getting punished" or even "They are trying to bring a black man down" There are groups of people who deserve to say that like Lil nas x who was told that his song old town is not country enough or Victims of the death row thingy who genuinely didn't do anything.
These are just examples.
But I feel that there are people who exploit these statements in order to be not held accountable for their actions.
The bad part of their exploitation of these statements is that sometimes they are truly not held accountable AND the statements loose their weight. To a point where even if a person who is genuinely innocent uses them... People will be so used to hearing those.
Honestly i believe that celebrity culture in America is STRONG. Too strong. It's strong to a point where a celebrity can never have a downfall. If they fall, they land on the clouds.. Leaving victims at a huge disadvantage UNLESS there are alot of victims like the R Kelly situation.
I think we went through this with Ellen too. Major win for gays on TV, known for her kindness, wretched to work for. We've been known and it didnt end her career.
Entertainment industry is just fully toxic so im never surprised when it comes out that harm has occured
I feel like people who say "I wish people would stop looking up to these celebrities" and actually thinks that'll happen, are the people who's faves haven't been called to the principals office yet. And when it happens we all gon be like "OUUUUU 🫵🏾👀" pointing 'n shit 😂
This was exactly the video I was waiting for 🙏
I've been actively avoiding 'news' about this, because I did not trust the majority of outlets/creators, to mindfully breakdown the situation without being discriminatory and hateful in all directions.
2 thoughts:
1. Them being plus sized dancers as well makes it even riskier to bring allegations because their pool of jobs is much smaller. I wouldn't be surprised if they came into this fully expecting to end their careers. And that's absolutely awful.
2. With the charge of disability discrimination, I'm struggling with this one because on one hand, I do believe (as someone with multiple invisible disabilities) you are responsible for advocating for your needs and wellbeing. However, I do hold Lizzo and her team responsible for not proactively ensuring their workplace facilitated and supported disabled workers advocating for and accessing accommodations.
Basically, I think responsibility is shared, but more so on the part of the employer as they were in charge of the environment and are not subject to the additional cost of not having your disability accommodated for.
That said, I don't believe Lizzo and her team deserve more critique on this than should be leveled at all other workplaces. Because this exact dynamic is pervasive across literally any area that interacts with disability. And it's infuriating.
Great video. I think that if you are a celebrity that becomes a hugh brand and you have a lot of employees you need to hire some sort of HR person to help you to deal with so much people and draw concrete contracts. That lady harassing the dancer because of religion is a great example to set boundaries, perhaps Lizzo wanted to have a bonding time with her employees. She thought it was ok because she works within music/celebrity industry. There is a set of things that employer and employees can do together and going to a sex club and push people that work under you to touch the preformersb is not it.
When I saw the tiktok about the guy who was glad Lizzo was being hated in the media because he found her "disgusting" and now had the means to justify his fatphobia made me sick!!!! Matter of fact, there are so much videos on tiktok with men being happy about this.
When people are revealed as the *exact opposite* of what they show the world- people feel the intentionality of it all, and they feel ‘betrayed’ on a much deeper level. There’s messing up, and then there’s creating a completely false persona/brand. Big difference.
Spent ages trying to word a comment around my feeling on Lizzo, so I’m gonna give up, but still wanted to thank you for your empathy and passion around fatphobia, it meant a lot ❤
Your bit on fatphobia was so refreshing. Hit the nail on the head- it was very cathartic to hear you talk about that before even diving in. Thanks for the video!!
Even if she admits she “suggested” going to that club in Amsterdam and touching the performers, I would also like her to admit that doing so was inappropriate due to the power she holds over her dancers as not only their boss but as someone who is famous. Loved this video. I told my friends that Lizzo doesn’t owe it to us as a collective to be a good role model however she does owe it to her employees to create a safe and legal abiding work environment
This is the best analysis of this situation I've heard so far. You put a lot of conflicting thoughts I had into words, and really dug into them. Excellent work ✨
Lol how we keep doing this 😂
AGAIN?! 😂
I'm very disappointed 😔 I've never been a fan of another person ever, but I like people that tries to change society for the better. Which makes this so much more heartbreaking 😔
I feel relief when I watch your videos. Every nuance of a situation that i find difficult to explain or think through is laid out in such a way I can immediately connect with and understand. There is never a stone unturned and that makes your videos incredibly satisfying and grounding. It doesn’t stop me from looking and thinking further but gives me energy to think more about it.
I really appreciated your breakdown of this. Especially again being "baggered by the book" and pledging abstinence.
I completely believe the victims and also feel like Lizzo is going to get worse treatment than anyone else (cis, thin, male, female, yt) who might do the same or worse. Its so complicated feeling like i want justice and precedent but also feeling so upset that someone i did admire for what conversations and representation she did bring (because gosh darnit, celebrities are marketed for entertainment but they sure as heck influence social norms) screwed up so badly. We are all people who make mistakes but abuse is not okay, ever.
Not surprised tbh as a former kpop stan we were shown almost every 2 weeks an idol was… human. Not that they didn’t do bad things, they did, but I say human because this is stuff normal folks get in trouble for ie. Bullying and saying the N-word. It becomes a scandal because of their status and sometimes antis wanting them to get in trouble then the situation turns from idol doing something wrong to their fans need to stop defending them then we lose the potentially nuanced conversation of the initial issue. It got to the point where I even stopped calling them idols fr bc what? Lol. I feel like this is headed in that direction 😭 but overall I am tired of the cycle and I’m tired of celebrities too like If they would just focus on their art or business and stop bothering us and the people that help them achieve the status they have I think the world would be better. Probably not.
We’ve missed you! 🥹🫶🏾
I think it was easy to pretend that Lizzo was a sweet person in real life because her persona on social media was so familiar. We all had a friend or loved one that talked and acted like that.
I moved from the midwest to Houston almost 2 to 3 years ago. "Prayer" at work is fucking common here, it's honestly crazy. I'm an atheist. So I make eye contact during prayers with other atheists and non-Christians and we're always like "wtf... we're at work" and it's exhausting. It's not MANDATORY but it's always present. They never ASK, they just do... I get it, religion is important to people who feel lost or confused in their own place in the universe. But that shouldn't be MY problem, you know? I'm not only a religious minority but a racial and sexual/romantic one too. I'm TERRIFIED of being pressured into shit for work. I'm asexual and gay and genderqueer. I'm already compromising my body but pretending to be feminine presenting at work. I've turned down "coffee sometimes" a lot from male coworkers and thankfully my bosses are straight women but that's a big fear I have. I'm a brown fat woman. Who's gonna believe me, you know?
This was fucking devastating to me. I've listened to Lizzo since 2016 Let Em Say. She's blocked for me on Spotify, even if she "wins" the lawsuit. I feel gross now. Forcing people into sexual situations is a big trigger for me and I refuse to support people who do that...
You atheists and those christians are annoying 🙄
I wasn't disappointed because I know that everyone is capable of evil. Happy I don't look up to anyone except myself.
check yourself. always.
I don't even look up to myself
I look up to God
Yeah I feel similar. Every now and then a creator or celeb gets outed for bad behavior and I've had 0 issues dropping them. Like the whole Try Guy's issue. He was my favorite one to watch of the group but when it came out he cheated on his wife and the girl he was with cheated on her fiancé I dropped him out of my entertainment space pretty easily. Idk I didn't really feel any major loss just disappointed that yet again another famous person did a shit thing, kinda "as per usual" or "oh wow... so anyways". It's just kinda expected at this point.
I was so let down by the news. I can’t totally blame myself for trusting her but like you said, I was also expecting certain virtues from her because she’s a plus sized, queer woman of colour which is my own unfair standard. Moral of the story, never trust a celebrity lol. Although, I hate seeing people blame fans for idolizing certain celebrities when I think everyone unconsciously creates role models out of people who act inspirational. It’s important to check ourselves but it’s also people like Lizzo (and the music industry who prey on parasocial relationships) who are creating this false sense of comfort.
Thank you for emphasing how absolutely terrifying it is to go up against incredibly powerful people publically. People are so quick to assume that people make the decision to go public lightly which boggles my mind. I don't know about y'all but my well-being, safety, career, reputation, privacy, financial future, etc...is not worth the very slight chance of a one time payout and I have a hard time understanding how so many people think most people in their right mind would.
The only way it makes sense is in a matter of dignity and principle because it is almost always a losing battle.
Thanks as always for offering a nuanced take. Same as you I without question believe the accusations and stand with the victims, and simultaneously am cautious in how I phrase my feelings since I've seen people JUMP to diss Lizzo in a way I have simply not seen for other celebrities (in a very, very antiblack and fatphobic way). How identities intersect with "cancel culture" (HEAVY on the quotes) seems to always get lost in the outrage. I'm furious for and wishing the best for the victims, but phew, the politics are a little messy.
As a dancer myself, I am so so so proud of them for standing up and saying how wrong it was the way they were treated because it is still widely accepted and seen as normal for dancers to be treated like that. Even if they don't win the case, it still calls to attention the terrible ways dancers are treated, and spreads the awareness that there needs to be change beyond just the dance world.
What's really insidious about lizzo looking down on her employees for seeking out other work when they could is that it cannot be easier for plus sized dancers to get work, like, period, so for Lizzo to keep them Ina chokehold like that was beyond cruel
Hey basic dude here.
Really love how you expressed everything here. Never actually held Lizzo deeply as an icon for myself because I’m not a plus sized gal but I wasn’t blind to what she represented and how devastating this is. I was actually worried people would let their want for an idol that can represent them lead them down a path of victim blaming but you articulated a way for people to both hold the loss they may feel without losing ethics. For what it’s worth we never NEVER get many voices telling people they can feel the loss of an ideal but they shouldn’t turn a blind eye to bad behavior. I feel that’s why R Kelly got so wild. So in short I hope you keep doing what you do
Thank you for such a refreshing & insightful take on this situation. I've seen lots of commentary youtubers doing a totally great job covering the situation in an ethical way, but not as many really digging in to those complicated feelings about Lizzo herself & holding space for 2+ seemingly contradictory ideas to exist within 1 person. You've helped me clarify some complicated feelings I have as someone who's hardly ever surprised when celebrities turn out to have ethical issues, and yet foolishly thought Lizzo "was different." Ugh. Thanks again for an insightful video.
Thank you for speaking about this and for creating a platform for people to discuss it. I know I can always come to your channel for a respectful take on what’s going on in the world. I appreciate your sensitivity and everything you’re doing overall! Take care ❤
(still watching the vid) but i love the set for this video! so cute and color coordinated and tee looks stunning as ever✨
Thank you!
MINE WAS 6th grade and I really had to sit here and think if that happened at my school or not. I grew up in TN so Christian beliefs are shoved down our throats. I grew up baptist but I don’t really identify with any religion atm. So I didn’t even realize that’s what we were doing until you described it 🥲
I had a similar realization as soon as I heard about the allegations. I was holding her to a whole other standard, and that's definitely where I f'd up. I brought the initial "disappointment" on myself.
Yo, your epiphany at around the 25 min mark - I realized I was holding my own bias on this too and felt a similar way of like "but she looks so bubbly and sweet", thanks for including that in the video. I had to put myself in check lol.
Love Lizzo and just went to her show in May but I totally believed what she’s accused of when I heard it. I’ve had wildly unprofessional bosses in retail, food service and transportation, so I can imagine what nonsense goes down in show business. Doubt Lizzo had a HR department or any real training herself about what’s appropriate behavior when dealing with employees. I watched her doc on hbo and she’s crying about her man problems with the people doing her hair and makeup. Of course they probably enjoy hearing the tea but where’s the line? Those people aren’t her friends, her dancers aren’t her friends. Celebrities can be so self center and have so much power, so who on the payroll is gonna say “hey I’m just here to work, keep it professional please.”
This is by *far* the most nuanced take I've seen on this news. Thank you for helping me process my own deeply complicated emotions on this. I'm also still not sure how I feel, but this has helped me work through some of it. And you know what? Maybe it's okay not to have a firm conclusion in place yet. Maybe jumping to conclusions is *not* actually the move, ever.
These eyebrows!!! Yessss
Okay *crosses legs* I’m seated.
i wholeheartedly agree with your take on this, especially the part about being disappointed in myself that a celeb i’ve never even met is not the perfect angel i imagined them to be. i can’t even imagine the disappointment her plus sized supporters feel.
Im so proud of these dancers for bringing these issues to light. I was sa'd by my ex and it was so incredibly hard for me to go through the legal system. I wish them all the luck in the world. Also the Naomi Campbell thing....what THE fu*k?!
I really appreciate the nuance you bring to the discussion, Tee. I was heartbroken to see that Lizzo's dancers were harmed but something in the backlash Lizzo was facing felt... Off. So much of it was focused on bashing on Lizzo, claiming she was disgusting and had always shown "signs". There was too little sympathy for the victims. Too little discussions on how we could aid or what a shame it was that a person like Lizzo eho had brought body positivity ro a new forefront had turned out to be a bad person. I'm not here to excuse Lizzo. It pains me to see that women that likely admired her and went through the same fatphobia, antiblackness and worse, eith ableism too, were taken advantage of and hurt so throughly. But it's easy to see who's here for the victims and who's here against Lizzo. I wasn't sure how to put it into words but you did it perfectly.
The thing you said about always believing accusers is so true! I'm a firm believer of innocent until proven guilty unless its with sexual harassment or assault( also regular assault or abuse) I think its crazy how some people would rather believe an accused harasser or assaulter rather than the person who claims to be sexually harassed or assaulted. Also with christians, they are allowed to be "proud" and shove it in your face with nobody thinking it isnt ok, but if somebody even talked about their religion that wasnt a christian would get sighs and groans and " omg can you go one second without talking about *blank religion*"
I think if people can accept that humans can choose to be pleasant or harmful , peaceful or violent, positive or negative - it would make it easier to not put others pedestals. Just because someone has done and said a lot of positive things doesn’t mean they don’t have the capacity to hurt others. This is for everyone, even yourself. We all have the capacity to uplift and tear down one another.
I personally expect the best out of others because that’s the perspective I want to have but I do so with the mentality mentioned above. I still get disappointed but it’s not so earth shattering where I view that person as a villain or evil but more like, “damn they made some harmful decisions that I don’t vibe with now.” and remove myself from the situation. For me it’s a lot easier to do this w celebs and internet ppl bc they’re strangers and there’s no deep connection. W fam and friends, I have to practice this mentality more lol
All in all I hope this situation works out well for everyone involved ❤
If Lizzo ever made you feel empowered or special, that doesnt immediately get undone by her horrendous actions; she still did good things but she also did bad things. She still did put spotlights on big girls and take the heat and open a door.
Oh Tee, I was just thinking about you the other day, I heard about some Ariana scandal and I saw some recent pictures of her being light again and I was immediately reminded of your video "When the black gaze expires".
Whew this was well done. And QUICK!!
Before this release I was curious about if you were to make a video on this, if you would be touching on the ex girlfriend coming out with her lizzo story thing (which I believe was also mentioned in the tiktok you cited? But I’m not sure) and discuss the discourse around that or how it relates (or doesn’t) relate to this lawsuit.
Also I know this ain’t what we talkin about but TEEEE YA LOOK SO SO GOOD 🙏🏾✨❤️🔥 hope you’re well !
Quick for sure! Haha thank you! I don't have anything to say regarding the whole ex girlfriend thing, it really didn't strike me as important for where i was going with the topic.
@@TeeNoir mhm, and that’s on Mary had a little lamb 💅🏾. Thanks for the work you put into these, be well !
First and foremost Tee... This is one of your top 3 videos, for sure. Spot on, as always.
The one overarching idea for me in this kerfuffle is that I really don't think that Lizzo INTENTIONALLY became this pioneer for body positivity. Her rise to stardom was purely off of her talent and star power. She's incredible. About Damn Time is one of the best pop songs of the 21st century. What I'm about to unpack here is purely how I experienced her rise to fame, and part of it is inspired by the points you made in this (FANFCKNGTANSTIC) essay.
For one, I think it is largely understood, especially by Black consumers of contemporary music/sound, she makes Target/Old Navy commercial music. Which just so happens to attract predominately white audiences, specifically white women. I truly think white women saw this confident fat women that ignited this self love within them, which is far from uncommon considering we, as consumers of pop culture, bank on these artists to be representations for our human experiences. I don't think that was ever her intention. I think she just so happens to be a fat Black woman who loves to shake her a$$ while playing the flute, being herself. THEY put her on this pedastool to be the face of body positivity and fat liberation, which isn't necessarily unprecedented considering that Black women often carry the responsibility to make white people feel better about themselves and their morality.
I wholeheartedly believe that all allegations against her and Sister Shirley (that part had me ROLLING) are true, 100%. Waaaaay to specific to be untrue. But you're right, she's not going anywhere. She'll go dark for a few years (they just cancelled Made In America), and will re-emerge with more tenacity and innovation than ever before. That's what she should do anyway. That notes app defense was a joke, should've never happened. And we shouldn't expect her to learn anything, take accountability for anything, or demand anything of her because we do not know that lady. Period. She doesn't owe us, as the general public, anything at all, but I think people expect her to have some sort of elevated humility because she's a fat Black woman. Maybe it will happen, and if so her pockets getting HEFTY. I see a Netflix documentary coming her way, just like they did with Kevin Hart.
Thank you for this video, Tee. Good to have you back. Patiently waiting for your Renaissance World Tour review 🤪
I felt the same way about my place with parasocial relationships after the Lizzo news came out. Especially b/c I'm not really a part of stan culture, but Lizzo was a bit of an exception. It's not surprising but it's incredibly sad, and makes me wonder how much automatic trust I put into people just b/c they have nice personalities online. You don't know folk!!!
I just want to say I always appreciate how you caption your videos. This makes the experience much better.