I saw a tweet that said “it’s always lightskins or mixed people as black representation when it comes to Netflix shows but y’all sho know how to find themselves brown/dark skins when it comes to slavery and horror” and now I think of it every time
iktr. i hate when the only black girl or boy in a show or movie is a lightskin. as if that’s the darkest black people get. i was talking to my dad ab how everytime you look up black movies on netflix n shit you only see movies or documentaries about mass incarnation, life in the streets, & single mothers. basically all about the struggle like fuck we know!! where the black girl coming of age movies , the cheesy rom-com shit they make with EVERY other race, comedies with different actors than the same 5 they keep starring ?? ofc education is important and i’m glad they started showing the truth ab the way black people are treated but that’s not all we tryna see! and it creates this image that keeps us boxed in as victims instead of the strong people we are.
@@hariellanaomi9392 yes girl, speak on it! I would love a coming of age film about a dark skin black girl. It would make me feel seen in the film industry. But producers act like it’s the greatest sin of all smh
@@hariellanaomi9392 You're so right! It took me about 3s of thinking to realize how true this is. The only thing I could come up with off the top of my head for funny, coming of age story with darker skinned lead, and not centered on racial issues/crime is Chewing Gum with Michaela Coel.
@@simoneseouls4552 let’s not start on the fact that hollywood has never embraced black women and in the few chances they do , there’s usually promblems with simple stuff like hair styles, makeup, lighting!!! did you know that kelsey on high school musical was never supposed to be wearing headbands thru the entire franchise, she had to because there were no stylists who could properly do her hair so they made it her “trademark”. i hate starting on these topics cuz i never want to stop but people need to see this. and i know that even if i’m not dark skin my father is and so is my strong grandmother who used to tell me stories all the time about life almost 100 years ago. we gotta do better!!!
The trope of the smart, attentive guy of color being left for a cold distant white dude with a slightly decent jawline is the best name for something that is the WORST. An abusive guy with anger issues whose constantly hot or cold isn't sexy its a red flag.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 That's true and I'm sure there are I just feel like it's necessary to show one nice healthy relationship. Even in YA books it's seen as hot that a guy acts like that. It just feels like we a priming young women to not see red flags for what they are.
@@ChrisBrooks34 I agree with you and even if they show good relationships on TV it doesn't mean people will choose that in real life. It was so strange that Ginny would decide to choose someone like Marcus, not that he is a bad guy, but we have literally never heard him say anything of any substance.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 that's weird to like they make what is essentially supposed to be a nice guy a person with no real personality or like a weird 2D character with nothing in them. A really good example is Samuel from Elité and how his whole character Arc was obsessing over Marina
Ginny and Georgia had me lookin sideways at Ginny cause every time she had an issue with her mom, she never failed to bring up her mom’s dating history. Very much gave me internalized misogyny, especially when Ginny herself was supposed to be a “feminist”
@@princessemerald849 true...I hate to say it, but the parents I knew growing up who were separated and had revolving doors of new partners weren't exactly what I'd call great parents 💀 (I'm criticising the dads too btw, they weren't innocent of this either)
Honestly if it was planned then I would say it was genius of the writers a lot of us do claim to support other women and want sexual liberation but get freaked out when someone close does it
I've never watched the show but I can see how her mom having many boyfriends would be harmful bc my mom was also like that and I know I definitely got fucked up from having men in and out of my life and try to have a say in it
@@christingraham86 The show writes it like Ginny has issues with her mom’s sensuality, not her constantly being around men (basically, Ginny is vvv jealous of her mom and it shows)
My biggest problem with the Femme Fatale, is that at the end of the day, in most portrayals, feminity and 'being sexy' is seen as dangerous trait in a woman.
👏👏👏 I've literally been described by people who don't know me and cat called as "oh she's dangerous" irl like what? I have a rockin body but I don't have fangs or barbed tentacles or something, I ain't venomous like wtf are you on about lol... How is it that threatening to men that I (and others) are perceived as very attractive? Like what are they afraid of?? What's the danger?
@@mikaela9799 Depends on what they mean by dangerous. The more men find you attractive, the more dangerous it is for you because you have a higher probability of being harmed.
How I have interpreted that is not so much being a sexy woman in itself isn’t dangerous, but how it can be used to do dangerous things. I mean black widows are a thing for a reason. It’s about how a woman can use her looks in the right way to manipulate and destroy (mainly) men.
It's like no matter what women do, we're 'tethered' to men. Every trope, even the seemingly empowering ones are little prisons that are created by and in someway benefit the menfolk
"Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur." Margaret Atwood
@@pierrebornholm5599 Not in the same ways, if a man achieves something it’s usually due to his own merits, but for women it’s somehow attached to men - she’s tearing down the patriarchy or something like that. Her achievements aren’t just hers, it’s hers in comparison to men, or because of men, or in spite of men. But men don’t have that same link attached to their achievements.
i can’t remember who said it but she said all movies and shows are aimed to please the man so they r in a pov of what a man would want basically and they call this the male gaze
i dislike how there r literal girls shipping marcus and ginny saying "hE uNDerSTAnds hEr" but like there so much wrong w him, one, creepily coming up to her room ever now and then, and two, pretending like nothing happened after taking her virginity. And when she does get a boyfriend, he acts all "I don't like u and Hunter" like how do pple not see how he can be toxic too??
halo effect. He’s extremely good looking. It kinda bothered me and really shows how low the bar is personality wise for men that are good looking. And the only reason he understands her is because he snuck up into her room. Irl this would be considered majorly creepy 😬
I started watching Ginny and Georgia to see what the hype is about, why people like Marcus more than Hunter. Yeah he's attractive, but he's creepy asf lol. Also Hunter is a lil cringy sure, but he's way better as a person.
Okay but can we talk about how intelligent all the women in these comments are? Everyone is constructing such good arguments and I'm seeing things from so many different perspectives. The femme fatale is such an old trope that it has the power to be perceived a million different ways. I personally think that those that hate on women who use the system to reach the top are just as complicit in maintaining the system as the femme fatales who stop at the top and dont take their sisters with them but I've seen so many arguments about how the trope in the media is either rooted in Shakespeare-esque tragedy or in ancient Hebrew mythology and coated in misogyny that I'm encouraged to learn more. So not to fan girl but I love Tee Noir and I especially love the audience.
I agree! Here's my take on why people turn on the "femme-fatale" after they successfully reach their end-goal. The funny thing is most of the "femme-fatales" I've come across my life were not "feminist" in any way and were basically the stereotypical mean girl. They had deeply rooted misogyny towards other women, and only sought to favor men they wanted to manipulate if it meant getting the patriarchy to benefit them in some way. It was strange seeing them use feminist talking points/arguments to serve only themselves, but then turn around and deny women around them the very same thing they themselves fought for. And I mean straight up sabotage, betray, or harm the women around them in anyway to reap benefits at their victim's expense, and maintain the lifestyle they have (often through misogynistic means). I have no issue with "femme-fatales" screwing corrupt men over in their own patriarchal games, but when "femme fatales" resort to the same misogyny their counterparts inflict on women, I'm no longer a fan. Personally, I don't really find the "femme-fatale" trope empowering in any way. I just find the portrayal of characters to be 1-dimensional and toxic. I would get it if it was a more honest portrayal of these character's traits as whole, instead of portraying these characters into "good" or "evil" categories. I think Hollywood fails to showcase these characters as whole; women almost are always placed in either extreme - the "all good, innocent, damsel in distress", or some "all bad, evil, malicious, vindictive witch". In reality, women (and basically the rest of humanity) hold all sorts of traits/qualities.
Chole from ChloexHalle is a great example, as soon as she started embracing herself and getting male attention, women started coming at her sideways, but I thought we were all rooting for her. Now she's labeled as an attention seeker smh, these women be envious as hell.
Right, they don’t like competition it makes them uncomfortable that she has a body to the gods....I love her I didn’t like the little girl Chloe, she reminds me of pre mommy Beyoncé
@Elegant Oprah actually I’ve also read more critiques from men than women. Actually, search RUclips and plenty of “red pill” content creators are speak ill about her and saying that women are for the streets.
People expect women to be humble for every little piece of success they have. We’re supposed to be beautiful and sexy but not know it because we’re so humble. We’re supposed to be smart but not to obvious because we’re so humble. It perpetuates the idea that we don’t inherently deserve good things to happen to us in life but rather that we need to go through hardships and trouble to earn a bit of happiness and success..
right. they invited her to hang out with them. but ig it's because she's grown up with a white family or smthn and she just can't relate to the black kids?
@@maplewhatever5581 ig not overall awful, but still the way they handled race was dreadful. Even if I look at different things, like that one girls body image issues, they touched on it once and never again. I hope they fix that in the next season
@@madisonmad2767 Yeah it’s so off putting when you hear a line or watch a scene and it’s painfully obvious that... “oh yeah there were definitely no women in this writing room... cool...”
For example Macbeth. I am convinced lady Macbeth's breakdown was a metaphor for the women not being able to take so much power and ultimately rooted in mysogny
@@lesbiangoddess290 absolutely! When Lady Macbeth said to him "look like the innocent flower but be the serpent under't" she was telling him the steps she knew from experience. Stealth, manipulation, feigned innocence with ulterior motives - the only way any woman could move in the yesteryear of patriarchy and status
@@hapikohw exactly what I've been trying to say. Macbeth is a tale of what beating and trying to break from the status quo can do to you. I've been trying to explain to my enlgish teacher but it was such a surface level debate that I gave up trying to have intelligent conversations. That's why I love this play so much lady Macbeth was coded to be a witch since they described her as deceitful, manipulative and domineering. In fact all the powerful women in Macbeth's life were portrayed as evil which is why I love the connection to lady m and the witches. Also another point: her ambition was seen as ruthlessness, her cunning nature was seen as too masculine and her violent description of her wanting to rid herself of the barrier that is gender was seen as it distorting her feminine virtues
Why are you not talking about the men that degraded this girl? I saw a lot of women actually defending chloe. But men never get called out on anything.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 It’s probably because men shaming women for literally anything is all too common, the critique she received from women was kind of out of the blue and in my opinion clearly a result of internalized misogyny because before she was receiving attention on a larger scale she was being praised constantly and uplifted, she rarely received any form of hate but because she’s now seen as potential competition there was women ready to tear her down for simply being admired by men. Obviously both the men and women should be held accountable but right now we’re tackling a specific topic that concerns women.
@@chelseao.8783 I hear your point. But I feel that a lot of women have worked really hard to support other women and praise other women but it seems that this is not enough because when some women decide to bash other women then all of a sudden all the attention is removed from the positive and placed on the negative. I'm disappointed that we are even giving these women attention or the time of day. Its creating a divide among women. Some of us genuinely love women and love working with other women. The narrative that women hate each other is tiring. Because that hate usually stems from fighting for a men. I just personally don't want to see that narrative anymore and I don't want the younger Generation thinking that that's how women behave.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 Its unfortunate but we are used to men calling women all sorts of thing to actually physically violating women and girls for being women. We call them out all the time , for me it was sad to see when women had joined in and validating all the hate.
I agree with not having to be hyperfeminine. Two of the most seductive-femme-fatale women (girls) I knew in my teen years were pretty tomboyish and boho in their style, almost never wore makeup and got glam-ed only for nightclubs. It was their essence and personality that made them so desireable
lol you mean those Buffy knock-offs/hacks? but instead of a strong, independent character with nuance just a flat/one note characterizations of girls' who are romantically involved with dead men? 💀
@@nyluv150 she wasnt self centered, she was the main character with the most problems and everyone volunteered to save her. she tried to sacrifice herself many times and literally commit suicide but somehow she's "self-centred". just because she's not the strong independent character like bonnie and caroline doesn't mean she's self centered. especially on a video like this you're being misogynistic...
@@joannakaseya and not to mention the fact that Jo wasn’t really strong and independent,,she put her magic away and guess what she was a good character,,
I'm glad you mentioned that femme fatales don't need to be hyper feminine. As a woman who's not very comfortable dressing feminine I appreciate this. I'm still a woman, and I want to feel like one, but dressing feminine just doesn't do it for me.
They don't have to be but usually are and that's the troupe so unless you are trying to live as a FF then it really shouldn't be a problem lol. It's like a style and it can be more "masculine" styled. It still looked really good, baggy or straight boyish though doesn't really draw up the FF as being super feminine even though it doesn't always have to be super feminine clothes is the point. The feeling you exude and the clothes just tie in.
I always felt like the femme fatale was a manifestation of male fears about female sexuality, given how the trope was definitely created by men, and how old it is (like, going back to pre-biblical times. One of the first known femme fatale is said to be Lilith, a demon from ancient hebrew mythology). A woman who owns her sexuality on her own terms is the ultimate threat to the patriarchy, which needs to subjugate women's sexualities for it's own gain in order to sustain itself, so a woman character using her sexuality to get ahead has to be an evil character. That's why she's often played in direct contrast to the 'damsel in distress' who is demure, subservient, and sexual only at the behest of men. I suppose that's also why she always gets a tragic end or "learns her lesson".
Yes! I'd say its a fear and a fantasy that female sexuality is something he cannot control. Not being in control can be a hit to his masculinity (which is the source of the fear). So, this troupe lets him privately indulge in "being with the bad girl", and then save face by publicly vilifying her.
@@emeeme3247 yess it's so interesting that you mention the male character has to publicly vilify her bc we see that all the time irl where women are expected to be sexually available to men but also to be pure virgin/mother figures. patriarchy tries to make proximity to men the only way for women to get power, status, security or pleasure then derides women for doing so by calling them sluts or gold diggers, or for not doing it by calling them prude. no win scenario.
@@aislinnrossi4608 Yes irl. If he does it publicly, it's a performance. He's embarrassed. But he still has to be "the man". It's sad really. If he goes there, in private, his feelings are hurt. Can't handle the rejection or believe he got played or etc.
The femme fatale historically was used to "warn" women after the world war II. After the World War II women started getting jobs and becoming independents, so obviously some men at the time felt threatened and started making this idea of a "femme fatale" who is usually the antagonist of a movie and EVERYTHING "a wife shouldn't be". She is desirable and that's it. Women watching movies wanted to be "respectable ladies" so obviously they felt like the "femme fatale persona" was something they needed to avoid to attract the right man. The femme fatale is a sexist construct, she is an idea, she is purely sexual in most movies...she doesn't have dreams, parents, anything that makes her a real woman. Just remember Meghan Fox, she was the "femme fatale" of 2000 and no one wanted to give her serious gigs, they just wanted her face and body. I like that we live in a time where a woman in movies can be more than a face, for example in The Queen's Gambit. Beth would be considered femme fatale if the story was narrated by a man, she is mysterious, has her issues, and she's extremely gorgeous. But thankfully, we get to know her story from HER side💗
I see what you're saying,but you trying to denounce the femme fatale by saying its because its a mysogynistic construct only of sexual nature and in the same breath saying that she isn't a "real" woman,doesn't make sense and just doesn't sit right with me.You are doing exactly what Tee mentioned in the video,turning on the femme fatales once they achieve their goals,shaming them for not living a traditional life.The concept of being a "real woman" in and of itself is created by men to oppress women into traditional gender roles.Every woman regardless of what they choose to do with their time,if they choose to work or study or not,matter.We should not make it harder for each other to simply exist in this patriarchal world when its hard enough already.
@@adaxx4103 Okay so reading comprehension is a struggle for you, noted. Femme fatales aren't real women they're fictional characters usually created by men, going all the way back before the bible. There's a reason it's called a trope. And these tropes rarely reflect real women because women are multi faceted complex people, and femme fatale characters, and damsels in distress, are often depicted with very narrow personalities and motivations, reducing them for the male gaze or to propagate patriarchal ideals. Moreover, emulating or attempting to emulate such a reductive archetype is counterproductive, and definitely not a goal women should be striving for especially considering the inevitable backlash and consequence that it results in.
But can we talk about how Netflix loves to cast biracial girls/women instead of just giving us a Black girl? In Ginny and Georgia, she obviously had to be biracial because her parents are different races, but in other shows there are barely any monoracial Black/dark-skinned female main characters. Netflix is just seems obsessed with light-skinned people in general. I guess it's their "preference." The first thing that comes to mind is #RealityHigh.
@@sugarpearl9781 Im guessing because white moms and black dads are the most common interracial relationship instead of the other way around and I can testify to that
@@nynydabarbie It is possible to display interracial relationship that do not fit the constellation of the most common one. I mean, it‘s just possible to do that. Apparently Hollywood remembers that often enough: white able bodied christian-ish cis straight middleclass men are by far overrepresented in movies, compared to how many of them actually exist in real society.
For me, my biggest issue with the hyper-feminine mean girl, the femme fatale and its eviler version the black widow is .. they all falsely equate female attractiveness with materialism, and female relationships with transactional relationships, or worse: exploitation. Imo, just like hyper-feminine mean girls shaped the "I'm not like other girls", the femme fatale and black widow have shaped the menosphere ("nice guys", incels, mgtow etc.).
@@Alina_Schmidt For me, it's not even about that. There are rl materialistic people and transactional relationships. I don't think patriarchy created them, and I think such people and relationships would exist in a society free of patriarchal baggage. My point is rather: it's not for me to judge and project my concept of happiness onto other people,. And that's what the tropes I mentioned are missing: 1) the perspective that the relationships these women have are not exploitative - the men too are getting something they want out of this, she is not a victimizer, he is not a victim, 2) it's not "evil" if it's a mutual understanding / transaction / consent, the women aren't acting at the expense of someone else, transactional relationships are not something to be looked down upon or judged. Most importantly, we need more female tropes that depict women (in power), who don't indulge in materialism and/or transactional relationships and/or exploitation, because, while there are women like that either due to patriarchy or due to their own volition, there's way more women who are not like that. .. and less depictions of the notion that whenever a woman is clever, talented, strong, attractive etc., she'd "automatically" "need" or "want" to _use_ men and other women, to achieve her goals or get into a position of power or wealth or respect. Here, I definitely agree with you that patriarchy is at play.
@@augustaseptemberova5664 I watched the devil wears Prada some weeks ago and it passed the bechdel test and yet still failed to break free of misogyny and I've been wanting to talk to people more about ACTUAL female power and empowerment- what does that look like? How does one gain it? Etc
@@arianam6430 I haven't watched this one, but now I'm gonna this weekend out of curiosity. The title already says a lot about what to expect, judging by your description. Personally, the only movie depiction of a powerful female character in the lead role that I can somewhat identify with or look up to, is Lt. Ripley in Alien(s). Probably because her femininity isn't a plot device. She's a capable officer and survivalist who happens to be female. She shows realistic, relatable human traits as well as classically perceived as "female" traits, and these aren't portrayed as "tools" or "skills" she or anyone else exploits, neither as handicaps or advantages. I also like Annalise Keating/Harkness from How to get away with murder. Not that I identify with her, but I liked how her character was written exploring elements of female tropes, but without reducing her to a trope. Mind you, I've only watched the first 2 or 3 seasons, so I have no clue about her further character progression.
The show also tried to do the race talk and that shit took me out the park. The whole using the black group as a fall back net because you are biracial and your white friends don’t want you anymore is so TIRED.
That part made me sad... For 1 she literally didn't even HAVE to choose! Like girl you can have Black and white friends its ok... and how she only hung out with the Black kids until her white friends accepted her again was so.... UGH
@@AMCW90 exactly! Whoever wrote that part and the whole part about her boyfriend telling her she wants black enough because she couldn’t twerk and stuff was disgusting. Very distasteful
@@AMCW90 She had no interest in being friends with Brachia in the first place, she feels insecure about her own skin tone. She literally went into the bathroom and cried.
@@ambergathings7160 exactly she had no interest in being with her black "friends " but she also seemed more happy and comfortable with her white friends.
I hope she realizes they're not her actual friends soon, because yeah I get it it's your first time making friends and being popular but come on girl they were fake from day one based on how they got your ass arrested!
In high school I started wearing shirts with cleavage and heels, makeup, and walking with confidence and suddenly I was regarded as a bitch by people who had never spoken to me. Once I stopped wearing makeup and dressed more conservatively purely because school is always freezing, I’d mention how people assume I’m a bitch and other people would go “what I never thought that? That wasn’t my first impression” and such but just after I stopped sexualizing myself as much. I’ve talked to other pretty girls and this is very much a real phenomenon. We get called a bitch just for being pretty and confident at the same time. Our beauty can only be enjoyed by others.
People do this even if you AREN'T confident! I was really shy and self-conscious in school, but apparently because I liked to wear makeup and kept my hair long (part of my insecurities: I literally felt sick leaving the house if I didn't look "presentable" and also bc it was my way of hiding my depression) people who didn't even know me were like "yeah she's cold and weird and probably really self-absorbed." I also got called "frigid" *and* "slutty" at the SAME TIME, somehow 💀 a lot of it came from shitheaded guys but there were mean girls too. People really do just look at you and think they can write your entire biography. It's honestly kind of sad.
you've just opened my eyes. now i get it. It's like when a man cheats on his wife and the wife goes after the mistress, that didn't know the man had a wife. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Another example is when women empower other women to be themselves and be whoever they want to be and not care what people say and then those same women get mad when Cardi b and Megan released WAP
OMG THIS MAKES ME SO MAD! Why is the other woman always attacked first? Like the person who you were in a relationship with, which is the man, is the only person you should really be upset with. Why attack the women who didn’t even know the man was married??
Yeah, my eyes rolled deep when she got with the white guy. It's as if a mysterious force can't keep them apart. How about the creepy ass scenes whenever he enters her room and the show tries to frame it as "romantic"?
Look outside of his race and notice the parallel their trying to draw between her choice in men and her mothers choice in men i.e Ginny’s biological father.
We all know if the black guy did that, her reaction to it would be more apt to what it should be, which is grossly unfair. Really saddening that we’re going into the third decade of the twenty-first century and still reinforcing not only unhealthy relationships, but double standards. Oh, and racism.
@@kiera6326 I think its wrong either way ( coming from a black man or a white man) and we shouldn't glamorize it or accept it. However she seemed to not have a problem with it so I honestly feel like my hands are tied and I can't complain.
and the fact that the reason why she suddenly realized that she "loved" him was because he *possibly* tried to KILL HIMSELF after he was rejected by her??? the toxicity of it all
“Females carry the marks, language and nuances of their culture more than the male. Anything that is desired or despised is always placed on the female body.“ - Wangechi Mutu
@@mariammohabbat most wars are because of woman who get in between men e.g Cleopatra. Or another example, Alexander the great. His wars wouldn't have happened if it weren't for his mother. You cannot blame it on men alone but men alone die in wars thats my point. Men love all people, animals, cultures not just their children as is the case for women. If woman are soo 'good' why dont they adopt little kids instead of having sex then carrying it for 9 months then getting your vagina destroyed? The answer is they are selfish to a degree (just the slightest) and cannot love unconditionally as they say unless it's their own flesh and blood. Men, I'll say again, have a greater burden. Not all men, some are useless.
Thing is, when Lori started doing what she was doing- everyone started praising her for it and I was confused. They were like oh my gosh Lori is so smart not letting these men treat her any way and I'm like?? Thats the standard lol, shes not supposed to instantly become a baby mama or straggle on for six extra months looking foolish on social media. Lori is a woman that does what she is supposed to when she is not being treated right and now she found someone who is! And I thought every one knew thats how it was supposed to be but😴
true and I dislike the glamorization of Lori because to be quite honest aside from the wealth of the men she dates her taste is 🗑️. Diddy, Future, and a man 10 years older than her? Future is literally a serial baby daddy what is the appeal?
@@thetornadocrusader968 getting on your knees for a man and YOU BEING A MAN is a lil sus my guy.... whats ya bible say about that ? man shall not lay w man ?? /j
Katherine and Elena from The Vampire Diaries also exemplify the bridge between the damsel in distress and femme fatal. There is also a beautiful symmetry in this example because they're doppelgangers. It just serves to illustrates that these two stereotypes are mirror images of each other.
@@ArteiceTB why do women have to always be nice though? Men aren't nice to each other; why do we have to play into the stereotype of being comforting and welcoming?
@@jazharris2903 It's also playing into sterotypes of being catty and sabotaging each other. Women need to uplift each other instead of hating on each other's success. And if they wanna be haters, they should ignore it and work on themselves instead.
Ugh, thank you for bringing up women hating on women because they embrace their beauty and sexuality. I will never forgive myself for hating on famous, beautiful, female figures simply because I was envious. Meghan Fox is the first example that comes to my mind. But, I was super young when that happened so I understand it wasn't completely my fault, still, not my proudest moment. I would also like to bring up the fact that this starts FUCKING YOUNG!! EVER SINCE I WAS A 4 YEAR OLD I WAS TRYING TO GAIN APPROVAL FROM MEEEEEEEEEEN!!! AAAAAAAAAARGH! All I wanted was to be accepted, so I dressed more masculine, I tried playing games at recess that were "boy sports", AND I STILL DO IT!!! I don't even feel comfortable with my own femininity anymore because my dad was always telling me that I couldn't wear certain clothing because "they were too tight". HE ALMOST KEPT ME HOME FROM SCHOOL BECAUSE MY SHORTS WERE TOO SHORT!! I WAS IN FOURTH GRADE!!!. This is all rooted in sexism (as you said) and we need to start teaching parents not to tell their young children they can't wear certain things "because they're concerned for their sAfEty" Hey, maybe make the world fucking safer instead of letting young kids wrestle with the consequences! FUCK! Anyway, awesome video, as always, have a good day.
Okay but why is this literally me💀 like when I was young I would try to 🤢 gain the approval of my male classmates too. It for real starts young, like one time in elementary school this guy came up to me and he was like "I like your shoes :-)" cuz I had on these red Nikes or whatever and I remember I was like "OMG THANK YOU😃" and I was so proud like that is so problematic😭😭 even when I picked them out at the store I was "yes, these will make me popular : )" and also my dad was thee exact same way with my sister, like he dictated so many of her outfits and she wasn't allowed to wear certain things. She told me she asked him if she could wear fake eye-lashes and he was like "I'll think about it .3." and then he forgot so she just bought loll cuz she didn't care anymore😭 Forchently when she went to college she didn't have anymore restrictions and could wear what she wanted
@@seeegaaaa Brooo, what is this world?!?! Like, i'm glad that someone can relate to me, but also super sad that what's going on isn't its own isolated incident. Smh.
@@somegrill7561 Oh, nah, nah, lol. I'm just saying that children shouldn't have to bear the consequences of an adult issue. If parents actually made an effort to make the world safer rather than just teaching their kids to cope they wouldn't have to deal with all the shit that they do.
I feel like this narrative of women hating more successful or more beautiful women is also a narrative created by men to keep women behind. Why cant we accept that there are many different beauty standards and that not only a single body type should be celebrated? Also as a women I don't hate on other more beautiful or more successful women because it simply is a waste of time and has No real value. What personally frustrates me is expecting other women to constantly be cheering on other women simply because they are not pretty enough or don't make the cut. Everyone has their own lives and needs and we cannot always be the ones cheering for others like it's our job. I never see these pretty girls getting called out somehow its always the average normal women. Its exhausting.
IMO this is just the modern director’s excuse to carry on focusing on the male gaze. “We can use her body as an object because she’s a strong, independent woman”. Even though that camera pan up her leg did absolutely nothing for the plot or scene-setting...
They also do that to deflect criticism. "Um ackshually those gratuitous camera angles are very important to the plot because she's like empowered and stuff, by criticising me you just admitted that you hate women. Checkmate haters 😎" (Don't get me wrong I don't really care about fanservice or whatever in a series, but the transparency is funny.)
the femme fatale is reminding me of this quote that I cannot for the life of me remember completely or where it was from but it goes something like: In the Bible it was Eve and not Adam who was tempted by the serpent and caused original sin for all of humanity and something something... basically women being represented as men's weakness and the cause of men's downfall. Men using narratives to blame women for their shortcomings, and men portraying women as some sort of malicious seductress who gets punished in the end is like not to far from that. Idk it's all very incel-ish to me.
Abrahamic religions always make women villains to the point where other women see each other as the same from this sick brainwashing which was all done to worship men without any disturbances since these religions needed that father God image to be strong in the psyche of people without the image of mother God or a gender neutral energy of God disturbing that male worship. The making of a pick me starts in the home with these same principles which we see our own mothers displaying with the internalised misogyny they were taught from birth. The way they make the women villains actually shows the power women have in many ways to the extent that they can destroy the stronghold these religions and cultural norms have in society.
At this point Hollywood should just say they hate women because these tropes specific made for women are often times rooted in misogyny, toxicity or is flat out negative . Smh 🤦🏾♀️
One petpeeve I have with the "Femme Fatal"? She is meant to be a tough, and independant woman...Yet in 99% of plots she is used as a Honeypot. Literally her "strength" is only used as it relates to male desires. Like can we get a Lucy Lawless again (Xena)? Cause the Black Widow type is overdone..... Edit: Oh yes, now ya mention it... the "tamed wild horse" is annoying AF. Hence why I liked Erin Brochavich. She stayed kinda trailor trash and sexy but learned to balance t with professionalism, and as a result she takes on one of the nations largest class action suits AND WINS! Bonus (possibly why she is less toxic then other femme fetals as well), Erin is based on a real world woman. One tough as nails, able to care for her kids, display her body with pride and not afraid to go waaaay beyond her comfort zone to achieve a seemingly impossible task.
Also a real life femme is Cleopatra. Contrary to what the entertainment industry has portrayed her she wasn't by the definition of the time attractive. What she was, was extremely intelligent ans more educated than most men as well as fluent in multiple languages. She used her intelligence, charm to disarm and enchant the men around her so she could retain her power. The idea that a seemingly unattractive woman could hold any type of power and control over men is unbelievable to men and their ego so they rewrote history in the retelling of her story to diminish her intelligence and hype up her sexuality.
I really like the way Crazy ex girlfriend deconstructed the femme fatal trope. The main character Rebecca is deeply hurt by something that her ex did, and she vows to get revenge and she spends a few episodes trying, but it’s clear to literally everyone around her that all her actions are more self destructive than hurting the person she’s sworn to get revenge on. After like 4 episodes this basically crashes and burns in an amazing but completely self destructive way, and the rest of the series has a lot of focus on her healing. It’s almost completely centred around Rebecca and why she feels this way and her actions, rather than the guy she’s getting revenge over and it’s done with such respect.
I feel like there's another important message there that people don't like to hear, but need: most people *don't* get revenge, and it's probably not worth it anyway. And just because something seems empowering or uplifts other people doesn't mean it'll work for you.
I want to see a woman, just a single woman in an action movie who is unapologetically tomboyish or masculine. I've literally never seen this before. I want to see a female protagonist that literally doesn't care at all about men. An ace heroine. Or a lesbian one. That would be so refreshing to see. I've never seen an action movie that doesn't include romance, so an aro ace protagonist would be really interesting.
@@purplekitten6637 I think “ not caring about men” is kinda just dehumanizing to the character and seems toxic... but a character that doesn’t care about the view points of men on herself and is freely and unapologetically herself is good
It was! It started off as the Jezebel in the 20s and 30s who would lure men away from traditional values like marriage. A lot of this tension was constructed geographically in terms of the city vs the country. By the introduction of the production code (Hollywood censorship code), a lot of filmmakers were limited to writing about amoral characters as long as they got their comeuppance at the end. So sexually liberated women could only be written about if they were punished by the end of the film to be green lit and not censored. And this carries on with the femme fatale trope in the film noir era where women who exercised their right to be sexual beings were killed at the end of the movie.
And I just love how they sprinkled the only black character in the series that went to Ginny school in only three or four scenes through out the entire season.
@@theimplications635 She is mixed, this means she is both black and white. Brachia, was one of the only black people in the show and Ginny brushed her off.
This is the first time I’ve heard somebody talk about Ginny & Georgia without bashing Ginny. 🤣 Like I don’t even watch that show but all I see is ppl going “wahh I hate Ginny she’s so selfish”, I didn’t even know this show was actually about a femme fatale!
Same, I see people bashing Ginny but not a lot of people bash her friends or even Marcus, the guy who literally broke into a girl's house, took her virginity and pretty much abandoned her.
Another "femme fatale" who was really well-written, at least in my mind as a 16-year-old loser girl mind, would be Meg from the Hercules movie. I saw a really good video on it and I'll come back and edit this comment adding a link to it, but It really just broke down how badass Meg really was and how she did eventually fall in love with Hercules, but in no way did she stop being a badass, as well as showed her damsel side that still lurked under the surface from her past.
you're growing so fast!!! I love to see it!!! You're my favorite channel to listen to on these topics also, the video was very thought provoking as well
I felt Georgia’s story was actually interesting. She was in control of way more than people seem to give her credit for. We have to be honest that the cliche “ femme fatale” trope is really a survival tactic for plenty of young girls and women unfortunately. A true deep dive into Ginny & Georgia would be nice.
Hey Tee I hope you're okay Can you please make a video addressing the victim blaming and improper male behavior towards women in Jamaica The whole thing about Khanice is messy
And when you explain to them that this time it's for violence against women they go off. Rolls eyes. At this point I'm tired of this. Cause nobody ever said we never cared about violence against men. I hate it how when a group of persons or an individual goes through something traumatic or hurtful there is always people talking bout oh, that's the least there is this issue too. Or you're whining too much as blah blah has issues too. I just can't with the bull.
Tee's channel isn't just a channel, this is real, modern philosophy. Her words have such weight, I can't even choose a segment to quote because it all hit so hard.
this reminds me of when everyone hated (and some still do?) Taylor Swift for writing songs about her exes & dating people - even though she really didn't date a lot of people, and even if she did, why is that anyone's business?
omg frr from the way ppl talk about her i though she dated all of hollywood (which would still be fine) but she dated like 12 guys?? people really made such a big deal over nothing
The fact that the whole world started hating on her simply because she lied? Like we all know EVERYONE was just waiting for her to mess up even just a little bit to cancel her.
@@sienh She was telling the truth? Umm how? She didn't say how it isn't nice for men to call women bitches in her speech, she said it isn't right for others to try and undercut your success by taking credit for your success and fame- "As the first woman to win Album of the Year at the Grammys twice, I want to say to all the young women out there, there will be people along the way who will try to undercut your success, or take credit for your accomplishments or your fame. But if you just focus on the work … you will look around and you will know that it was you and the people who love you that put you there." She *never* once referenced being called "that bitch" in her speech. Her speech was entirely about people who try and take credit for your success. Her speech was about Kanye line saying he made her famous- i.e. people who "take credit for your accomplishments or your fame" *not* about people who use the term that bitch, a word that was never once mentioned in her speech. She did not make a speech about how people should use the word bitch, nor did she make a speech about how people shouldn't use sexist or derogatory terms, she made a speech about how people shouldn't take credit for your accomplishments. Except she had already literally gave Kanye her blessing to say he made her famous i.e. to "take credit for your accomplishments or your fame." It was fake outrage about him taking credit for her success despite her literally approving of him doing just that. She only switched the narrative after the video came out. An obvious backtrack which makes zero sense as her statement after the video does not track at all with the speech she made. Her grievances in her speech were completely different to her supposed grievance after the video came out. It's pretty hard to continue to pretend to be upset that someone took "credit for your accomplishments or your fame" after we all watched a video of you literally telling them they could do just that. So instead she pretended that all along her argument was that she upset that he called her that bitch, except it wasn't and all you have to do is look at the speech transcript and see that for yourself. Show me the term "that bitch" in her original speech. You can't. You cannot rewrite her speech or history. She said what she said and it had literally nothing to with him calling her that bitch, it had to do with him taking "credit for your accomplishments or your fame" which was pretty odd considering she approved of him doing just that.
@@perfectchemistry8291 jesus, you wrote a whole essay about how taylor yet failed to actually realise the grammys speech wasn't the only place she made statements about kanye or famous. You just completely omitted the statement taylors publicist made about famous, saying that taylor was never told about the lyric, "I made that bitch famous," which was why it made her so furious especially since it was so derogatory in context. You also said she switched the narrative after the video came out but it seems as though you didn't even watch the video because if you did, you'd realise she was telling the truth the whole time. It's also quite hypocritical for you too since you're changing and omitting events from the narrative to fit your version of events lmao! You must have a miserable life to actually care so much about a celebrity who doesn't even know you exist. I wish you the best of luck in life because you'll need it 💀 - sincerely a taylor AND kanye fan
I would love for a whole video on the question/ statement you posed at around 7:20. “ how we as society view women who make their sexuality a permanent part of their womanhood” because I think a lot of women still struggle with this idea.
The Femme Fatale is an archetype that really can't be separated from fragile masculinity (at least in terms of its origin). So many things wrapped up in fears of castration, it really is a Freudian field day.
As a trauma survivo and author, i agree with the patr of writers delving into trauma. Like, bruh, I'm an orphan who lost both of my parents before highschool in horrible ways, and my early life was so traumatic I almost ended my life. But if my life was a late-night drama, I bet they'd just go over it in 5 seconds or some shit.
You’re the first person I’ve seen articulate my gripes with this show (aside from Ginny being an annoying brat) they didn’t go anywhere with the many issues they presented. Especially since Ginny was presented as so intelligent and “woke” in the first episode I was wondering when is she gonna check these bitches? But even her internal monologue didn’t even take issue with the micro aggressions or even acknowledge the many things they TRIED to address. With such a white cast and therefore a white audience I’m disappointed with how they handled a lot of the stuff they pointed out on the show. This show had so much potential but they really dropped the ball trying to do too much without doing anything.
that trope has almost always existed.. i remember it in the 90s in elementary school, in so much media over my whole life. i fought so hard to be seen as at least a tomboy, as young as like 7 or 8 i remember not feeling like i wanted to be, or was accepted by "other girls" *not to invalidate the 2013 phase idea. i just think that every generation has a rolling effect of realization or whatever it is.
@@queenofzenk this reminds me of my old days of refusing to wear makeup and hating the color pink makes me unique lol. But, this makes sense as well. Until today this trope is still everywhere, to the point i think that this might not be a phase but a "character" idea...
I would love to have a conversation about life with you like wow. I love you Tee, you've really made me grow as a person and in my knowledge in general so thank you for that
I literally have "femme fatale" tatted on my left arm,, and I got it because throughout my life I've struggled to embrace my femininity and sexuality... it's a reminder of what I want to be 8:34 yeeeeeesss. I'm hyperfeminine but this is so important-
Ginny and Georgia was the first show in which I rooted for the "cool guy", bc he and Ginny really have a connection while she and the "sweet guy" have literally none. She was pushed into this relationship and did not dare to end it. Damn, I thought "sweet guy" was cold towards her in person but loved the attention.
Your voice is so poised and calming. You also explain everything so well. I could honestly listen to you all day, everyday. Also you said nothing but the truth. I always hated, hated, HATED how the media, other video vixens & Tyra treated Karrine Steffans. She did nothing but tell the truth. And other people just couldn't handle the truth. I always loved how she handled that interview. She didn't let "pick me" ass Tyra get her mad, and that frustated Tyra even more. She just didn't give her the satisfaction of getting angry or cussing her out. And I admire that about her.💕
This is why I like Irene Adler on Sherlock because it's made clear that she's just as smart as Sherlock and that her power comes from her awareness and her own intelligence rather than a dependence on men. It's revealed that she isn't even attracted to men, but what's significant is that she understands how to utilize sex to access a position that men cannot.
I love “the woman” and her ability to “wreck” two married politicians’ heterosexual home while being homosexual by having an affair with both simultaneously. Loool.
Do you mean how she’s portrayed in the book? In the show, it was all well and good until Irene, proven by the show’s past hour of runtime to be an absolute genius, suddenly became a silly, lovestruck girl who just couldn’t help but set her crush’s name as her phone password 😒
Speaking of Sherlock there's an anime version and she was just recently introduced. Love her character already, my girl outsmarted Sherlock in those 20 mins lol (keep in mind I'm not familiar with Sherlock, just watching the anime)
Lori Harvey and Saweetie are two women I see that are constantly harassed simply because they're black, beautiful and, successful. It genuinely makes no sense to me.
I mean, the femme fatale is literally a villain archetype created to warn against female sexuality. Goes without saying it'd be misogynistic, and thats also the reason they lose in end (as villains do) I don't understand why the trope is being analysed as if it's something that's supposed to be 'Revolutionary', this trope goes as far back as the bible.
I saw a tweet that said “it’s always lightskins or mixed people as black representation when it comes to Netflix shows but y’all sho know how to find themselves brown/dark skins when it comes to slavery and horror” and now I think of it every time
This comment is soooo underrated😲
iktr. i hate when the only black girl or boy in a show or movie is a lightskin. as if that’s the darkest black people get. i was talking to my dad ab how everytime you look up black movies on netflix n shit you only see movies or documentaries about mass incarnation, life in the streets, & single mothers. basically all about the struggle like fuck we know!! where the black girl coming of age movies , the cheesy rom-com shit they make with EVERY other race, comedies with different actors than the same 5 they keep starring ?? ofc education is important and i’m glad they started showing the truth ab the way black people are treated but that’s not all we tryna see! and it creates this image that keeps us boxed in as victims instead of the strong people we are.
@@hariellanaomi9392 yes girl, speak on it! I would love a coming of age film about a dark skin black girl. It would make me feel seen in the film industry. But producers act like it’s the greatest sin of all smh
@@hariellanaomi9392 You're so right! It took me about 3s of thinking to realize how true this is. The only thing I could come up with off the top of my head for funny, coming of age story with darker skinned lead, and not centered on racial issues/crime is Chewing Gum with Michaela Coel.
@@simoneseouls4552 let’s not start on the fact that hollywood has never embraced black women and in the few chances they do , there’s usually promblems with simple stuff like hair styles, makeup, lighting!!! did you know that kelsey on high school musical was never supposed to be wearing headbands thru the entire franchise, she had to because there were no stylists who could properly do her hair so they made it her “trademark”. i hate starting on these topics cuz i never want to stop but people need to see this. and i know that even if i’m not dark skin my father is and so is my strong grandmother who used to tell me stories all the time about life almost 100 years ago. we gotta do better!!!
The trope of the smart, attentive guy of color being left for a cold distant white dude with a slightly decent jawline is the best name for something that is the WORST. An abusive guy with anger issues whose constantly hot or cold isn't sexy its a red flag.
I feel as though there is people in real life who make choices like that and its actually sad. You cannot control people who choose those things.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 That's true and I'm sure there are I just feel like it's necessary to show one nice healthy relationship. Even in YA books it's seen as hot that a guy acts like that. It just feels like we a priming young women to not see red flags for what they are.
@@ChrisBrooks34 I agree with you and even if they show good relationships on TV it doesn't mean people will choose that in real life.
It was so strange that Ginny would decide to choose someone like Marcus, not that he is a bad guy, but we have literally never heard him say anything of any substance.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 that's weird to like they make what is essentially supposed to be a nice guy a person with no real personality or like a weird 2D character with nothing in them. A really good example is Samuel from Elité and how his whole character Arc was obsessing over Marina
,,literally the entire plot of the kissing booth 2,,
I actually hate when movies present calm, loving and responsible people as boring and tedious.
🙌🙌🙌
Exactly,I don't know why being bright,kind and a responsible person is boring and treated"uncultured"
💯
I feel like a good example of character who defies this is Violet Bridgerton.
AGREED
As a superhero fan for instance it’s so tiring to have to constantly fight against the “Superman is boring” bullshit
Ginny and Georgia had me lookin sideways at Ginny cause every time she had an issue with her mom, she never failed to bring up her mom’s dating history. Very much gave me internalized misogyny, especially when Ginny herself was supposed to be a “feminist”
@@princessemerald849 true...I hate to say it, but the parents I knew growing up who were separated and had revolving doors of new partners weren't exactly what I'd call great parents 💀 (I'm criticising the dads too btw, they weren't innocent of this either)
Honestly if it was planned then I would say it was genius of the writers a lot of us do claim to support other women and want sexual liberation but get freaked out when someone close does it
That's so true idk how I didn't think of that
I've never watched the show but I can see how her mom having many boyfriends would be harmful bc my mom was also like that and I know I definitely got fucked up from having men in and out of my life and try to have a say in it
@@christingraham86 The show writes it like Ginny has issues with her mom’s sensuality, not her constantly being around men (basically, Ginny is vvv jealous of her mom and it shows)
My biggest problem with the Femme Fatale, is that at the end of the day, in most portrayals, feminity and 'being sexy' is seen as dangerous trait in a woman.
👏👏👏 I've literally been described by people who don't know me and cat called as "oh she's dangerous" irl like what? I have a rockin body but I don't have fangs or barbed tentacles or something, I ain't venomous like wtf are you on about lol... How is it that threatening to men that I (and others) are perceived as very attractive? Like what are they afraid of?? What's the danger?
@@Samson16436 The ones who say yall dangerous are the ones insecure. They are all insecure. That's all. Don't listen to insecure people.
@@mikaela9799 Depends on what they mean by dangerous. The more men find you attractive, the more dangerous it is for you because you have a higher probability of being harmed.
It’s the femme fatale for a reason. If there’s not danger than it’s boring :/
How I have interpreted that is not so much being a sexy woman in itself isn’t dangerous, but how it can be used to do dangerous things. I mean black widows are a thing for a reason. It’s about how a woman can use her looks in the right way to manipulate and destroy (mainly) men.
I also always noticed that this is an archetype of a woman who is only strong on male terms
Commenting to keep the 69 likes. 👍🏾
!!!
THIS
OOP
If the tea wasnt hot enough today
It's like no matter what women do, we're 'tethered' to men. Every trope, even the seemingly empowering ones are little prisons that are created by and in someway benefit the menfolk
"Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur." Margaret Atwood
@@jasleenkaur3072 omg I used this exact quote in a different comment. I feel like it's so applicable here and sums everything up so well
You think men are not equally bound to women?
@@pierrebornholm5599 Not in the same ways, if a man achieves something it’s usually due to his own merits, but for women it’s somehow attached to men - she’s tearing down the patriarchy or something like that. Her achievements aren’t just hers, it’s hers in comparison to men, or because of men, or in spite of men. But men don’t have that same link attached to their achievements.
i can’t remember who said it but she said all movies and shows are aimed to please the man so they r in a pov of what a man would want basically and they call this the male gaze
The Patriarchy doesn’t like it when women beat them at their own misogynistic games✍🏽
🔥🔥🔥
FAXX
By being a misandrist? And becoming a matriarchy? 🤔
@@benjaminreyes3624 ok but where is that happening? on what planet?
@@benjaminreyes3624 how are your joints still intact after that reach
i dislike how there r literal girls shipping marcus and ginny saying "hE uNDerSTAnds hEr" but like there so much wrong w him, one, creepily coming up to her room ever now and then, and two, pretending like nothing happened after taking her virginity. And when she does get a boyfriend, he acts all "I don't like u and Hunter" like how do pple not see how he can be toxic too??
halo effect. He’s extremely good looking. It kinda bothered me and really shows how low the bar is personality wise for men that are good looking. And the only reason he understands her is because he snuck up into her room. Irl this would be considered majorly creepy 😬
@@reylime2991 exactly it's pretty privilege at its finest
I started watching Ginny and Georgia to see what the hype is about, why people like Marcus more than Hunter. Yeah he's attractive, but he's creepy asf lol.
Also Hunter is a lil cringy sure, but he's way better as a person.
@@reylime2991 exactlyyyy someone who understands dayummm
@@strudelh exactlyyy. Marcus is toxic.. They just liking him coz he looks more handsome smh. He's a literal 0 for personality. Not a stable person
Okay but can we talk about how intelligent all the women in these comments are? Everyone is constructing such good arguments and I'm seeing things from so many different perspectives. The femme fatale is such an old trope that it has the power to be perceived a million different ways. I personally think that those that hate on women who use the system to reach the top are just as complicit in maintaining the system as the femme fatales who stop at the top and dont take their sisters with them but I've seen so many arguments about how the trope in the media is either rooted in Shakespeare-esque tragedy or in ancient Hebrew mythology and coated in misogyny that I'm encouraged to learn more. So not to fan girl but I love Tee Noir and I especially love the audience.
I agree! Here's my take on why people turn on the "femme-fatale" after they successfully reach their end-goal. The funny thing is most of the "femme-fatales" I've come across my life were not "feminist" in any way and were basically the stereotypical mean girl. They had deeply rooted misogyny towards other women, and only sought to favor men they wanted to manipulate if it meant getting the patriarchy to benefit them in some way. It was strange seeing them use feminist talking points/arguments to serve only themselves, but then turn around and deny women around them the very same thing they themselves fought for. And I mean straight up sabotage, betray, or harm the women around them in anyway to reap benefits at their victim's expense, and maintain the lifestyle they have (often through misogynistic means). I have no issue with "femme-fatales" screwing corrupt men over in their own patriarchal games, but when "femme fatales" resort to the same misogyny their counterparts inflict on women, I'm no longer a fan. Personally, I don't really find the "femme-fatale" trope empowering in any way. I just find the portrayal of characters to be 1-dimensional and toxic. I would get it if it was a more honest portrayal of these character's traits as whole, instead of portraying these characters into "good" or "evil" categories. I think Hollywood fails to showcase these characters as whole; women almost are always placed in either extreme - the "all good, innocent, damsel in distress", or some "all bad, evil, malicious, vindictive witch". In reality, women (and basically the rest of humanity) hold all sorts of traits/qualities.
@@dawn1201 This!
Always glad to listen to intelligent people✌️
@@thetornadocrusader968 No.
Female attractiveness is only ever threatening when men realize they cannot control it with the force of their hands. I said what
I said. :)
I love this comment so much 👍🏾❤️👏🏾
But literally this!
agree with you miss.
let em know
yes, which is why men love porn but hate sex workers
Chole from ChloexHalle is a great example, as soon as she started embracing herself and getting male attention, women started coming at her sideways, but I thought we were all rooting for her. Now she's labeled as an attention seeker smh, these women be envious as hell.
They reallly are it’s pathetic
I mean, I’ve seen more men coming at her then women if I’m being honest. Mostly men are calling her attention seeker
And these are the same people who say "girls supporting girls" 🤚🏾
Right, they don’t like competition it makes them uncomfortable that she has a body to the gods....I love her I didn’t like the little girl Chloe, she reminds me of pre mommy Beyoncé
@Elegant Oprah actually I’ve also read more critiques from men than women. Actually, search RUclips and plenty of “red pill” content creators are speak ill about her and saying that women are for the streets.
People expect women to be humble for every little piece of success they have. We’re supposed to be beautiful and sexy but not know it because we’re so humble. We’re supposed to be smart but not to obvious because we’re so humble. It perpetuates the idea that we don’t inherently deserve good things to happen to us in life but rather that we need to go through hardships and trouble to earn a bit of happiness and success..
If I could like this comment a million times I would !!!!!😭😭 Straight facts
@@awoman5363 i would too 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
the way you just worded my feelings
this
Good point!
Sookie kept her a baddie, ready to risk it all lolol
Not my favorite RUclips commenting on another one of fav’s channels. This is how I know I live in an echo chamber.
Gurl watchu doin
hey i love your vids!!!
No authentification next to your name? 😱 What
Stella Muller
Nice try 😉
Ginny says she's too yt for the Black kids, but never hangs out with them. Only time she did is when her yt besties didn't like her. Awful show.
LITERALLY. They were asking her to join them and she completely ignored them.
The show isn’t awful but you’re right, you need look deeper then just race because I related to how characters felt due to the trauma they experienced
right. they invited her to hang out with them. but ig it's because she's grown up with a white family or smthn and she just can't relate to the black kids?
@@maplewhatever5581 ig not overall awful, but still the way they handled race was dreadful. Even if I look at different things, like that one girls body image issues, they touched on it once and never again. I hope they fix that in the next season
yhshe completly ignored them! and she was especially racist to the asain guy, hunter?!
The Femme Fatale arch was made specifically to please men. also most Femme Fatale in Hollywood are mostly white women which is weird
Everything in Hollywood was made to please men tbh(if not most things)
@@madisonmad2767 Yeah it’s so off putting when you hear a line or watch a scene and it’s painfully obvious that... “oh yeah there were definitely no women in this writing room... cool...”
or the dark haired latina man eater too.
Rihanna is not white(I believe she’s a femme fatale. She’s strong on her terms and has really thrown the ideas of pleasing men right into their faces)
there are racialized versions of the archetype, the "dragon lady" is one i can think off the top of my head, but i bet it's similar across the board
The Femme Fatale trope is a Shakespearian tragedy wrapped in misogyny
Speak on it
For example Macbeth. I am convinced lady Macbeth's breakdown was a metaphor for the women not being able to take so much power and ultimately rooted in mysogny
This is actually crazy deep but they're not ready for it I don't know if I'm even ready for it😭😭‼️
@@lesbiangoddess290 absolutely! When Lady Macbeth said to him "look like the innocent flower but be the serpent under't" she was telling him the steps she knew from experience. Stealth, manipulation, feigned innocence with ulterior motives - the only way any woman could move in the yesteryear of patriarchy and status
@@hapikohw exactly what I've been trying to say. Macbeth is a tale of what beating and trying to break from the status quo can do to you. I've been trying to explain to my enlgish teacher but it was such a surface level debate that I gave up trying to have intelligent conversations. That's why I love this play so much lady Macbeth was coded to be a witch since they described her as deceitful, manipulative and domineering. In fact all the powerful women in Macbeth's life were portrayed as evil which is why I love the connection to lady m and the witches. Also another point: her ambition was seen as ruthlessness, her cunning nature was seen as too masculine and her violent description of her wanting to rid herself of the barrier that is gender was seen as it distorting her feminine virtues
I thinking of the Chloe tiktok criticism she received , women really got that internalized misogyny its tragic.
That would be a great video suggestion for her. I think she has mentioned it before
Why are you not talking about the men that degraded this girl? I saw a lot of women actually defending chloe. But men never get called out on anything.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 It’s probably because men shaming women for literally anything is all too common, the critique she received from women was kind of out of the blue and in my opinion clearly a result of internalized misogyny because before she was receiving attention on a larger scale she was being praised constantly and uplifted, she rarely received any form of hate but because she’s now seen as potential competition there was women ready to tear her down for simply being admired by men. Obviously both the men and women should be held accountable but right now we’re tackling a specific topic that concerns women.
@@chelseao.8783 I hear your point. But I feel that a lot of women have worked really hard to support other women and praise other women but it seems that this is not enough because when some women decide to bash other women then all of a sudden all the attention is removed from the positive and placed on the negative. I'm disappointed that we are even giving these women attention or the time of day. Its creating a divide among women. Some of us genuinely love women and love working with other women. The narrative that women hate each other is tiring. Because that hate usually stems from fighting for a men. I just personally don't want to see that narrative anymore and I don't want the younger Generation thinking that that's how women behave.
@@tondaniraluswinga2590 Its unfortunate but we are used to men calling women all sorts of thing to actually physically violating women and girls for being women. We call them out all the time , for me it was sad to see when women had joined in and validating all the hate.
I agree with not having to be hyperfeminine. Two of the most seductive-femme-fatale women (girls) I knew in my teen years were pretty tomboyish and boho in their style, almost never wore makeup and got glam-ed only for nightclubs. It was their essence and personality that made them so desireable
I’m very confused on how you got to that??
Not saying you’re wrong I’m just confused
@@speccogecko7296 it was in the video. Tee talked about it around 9 minutes in. OC was agreeing
Elena from TVD and Belle from Twilight are literally written the same way, a damsel in distress that everybody has to always save
lol you mean those Buffy knock-offs/hacks? but instead of a strong, independent character with nuance just a flat/one note characterizations of girls' who are romantically involved with dead men? 💀
yup and ik in the tvd fandom elena is constantly slandered by fans because of this
@@kahlyn4157 i mean why wouldn’t they she was just so self centered
@@nyluv150 she wasnt self centered, she was the main character with the most problems and everyone volunteered to save her. she tried to sacrifice herself many times and literally commit suicide but somehow she's "self-centred". just because she's not the strong independent character like bonnie and caroline doesn't mean she's self centered. especially on a video like this you're being misogynistic...
@@joannakaseya and not to mention the fact that Jo wasn’t really strong and independent,,she put her magic away and guess what she was a good character,,
When Tee winked at the screen I felt the gay evaporate out of me
Lmao same honey like the last thing I need is another existential crisis in my life
@@jasontoddsthighholsters4168 me too I've dealt with one already and I don't need another one 🤣🤣
Lol I think you mean it made the gay stronger!
and thats on 'T and Coco'
I watched it so many times. 😔
I'm glad you mentioned that femme fatales don't need to be hyper feminine. As a woman who's not very comfortable dressing feminine I appreciate this. I'm still a woman, and I want to feel like one, but dressing feminine just doesn't do it for me.
Exactly!!!! I want like a more baggy carefree style tbh 😂
SAME..I feel so much pressure to get glammed up especially for special occasions when hygiene and clear skin is enough for me.
@@kinkykoils6176 ABSOLUTELY
im a goth so..
They don't have to be but usually are and that's the troupe so unless you are trying to live as a FF then it really shouldn't be a problem lol. It's like a style and it can be more "masculine" styled. It still looked really good, baggy or straight boyish though doesn't really draw up the FF as being super feminine even though it doesn't always have to be super feminine clothes is the point. The feeling you exude and the clothes just tie in.
I always felt like the femme fatale was a manifestation of male fears about female sexuality, given how the trope was definitely created by men, and how old it is (like, going back to pre-biblical times. One of the first known femme fatale is said to be Lilith, a demon from ancient hebrew mythology). A woman who owns her sexuality on her own terms is the ultimate threat to the patriarchy, which needs to subjugate women's sexualities for it's own gain in order to sustain itself, so a woman character using her sexuality to get ahead has to be an evil character. That's why she's often played in direct contrast to the 'damsel in distress' who is demure, subservient, and sexual only at the behest of men. I suppose that's also why she always gets a tragic end or "learns her lesson".
Yes! I'd say its a fear and a fantasy that female sexuality is something he cannot control. Not being in control can be a hit to his masculinity (which is the source of the fear). So, this troupe lets him privately indulge in "being with the bad girl", and then save face by publicly vilifying her.
@@emeeme3247 yess it's so interesting that you mention the male character has to publicly vilify her bc we see that all the time irl where women are expected to be sexually available to men but also to be pure virgin/mother figures. patriarchy tries to make proximity to men the only way for women to get power, status, security or pleasure then derides women for doing so by calling them sluts or gold diggers, or for not doing it by calling them prude. no win scenario.
yes this is like the way men are so upset by sex workers but not by porn
@@aislinnrossi4608 Yes irl. If he does it publicly, it's a performance. He's embarrassed. But he still has to be "the man". It's sad really. If he goes there, in private, his feelings are hurt. Can't handle the rejection or believe he got played or etc.
@@kharlley8kh I don’t think you realize how embarrassing this comment is....
The femme fatale historically was used to "warn" women after the world war II. After the World War II women started getting jobs and becoming independents, so obviously some men at the time felt threatened and started making this idea of a "femme fatale" who is usually the antagonist of a movie and EVERYTHING "a wife shouldn't be". She is desirable and that's it.
Women watching movies wanted to be "respectable ladies" so obviously they felt like the "femme fatale persona" was something they needed to avoid to attract the right man.
The femme fatale is a sexist construct, she is an idea, she is purely sexual in most movies...she doesn't have dreams, parents, anything that makes her a real woman. Just remember Meghan Fox, she was the "femme fatale" of 2000 and no one wanted to give her serious gigs, they just wanted her face and body.
I like that we live in a time where a woman in movies can be more than a face, for example in The Queen's Gambit. Beth would be considered femme fatale if the story was narrated by a man, she is mysterious, has her issues, and she's extremely gorgeous. But thankfully, we get to know her story from HER side💗
I see what you're saying,but you trying to denounce the femme fatale by saying its because its a mysogynistic construct only of sexual nature and in the same breath saying that she isn't a "real" woman,doesn't make sense and just doesn't sit right with me.You are doing exactly what Tee mentioned in the video,turning on the femme fatales once they achieve their goals,shaming them for not living a traditional life.The concept of being a "real woman" in and of itself is created by men to oppress women into traditional gender roles.Every woman regardless of what they choose to do with their time,if they choose to work or study or not,matter.We should not make it harder for each other to simply exist in this patriarchal world when its hard enough already.
@@adaxx4103 Okay so reading comprehension is a struggle for you, noted. Femme fatales aren't real women they're fictional characters usually created by men, going all the way back before the bible. There's a reason it's called a trope. And these tropes rarely reflect real women because women are multi faceted complex people, and femme fatale characters, and damsels in distress, are often depicted with very narrow personalities and motivations, reducing them for the male gaze or to propagate patriarchal ideals. Moreover, emulating or attempting to emulate such a reductive archetype is counterproductive, and definitely not a goal women should be striving for especially considering the inevitable backlash and consequence that it results in.
I think Ginny and Georgia was trying to be everything at once and ended up becoming nothing at all
Like Riverdale tbh. Kinda, Because wow, the uber “wokeness” of it all...
I hate it.
You're absolutely correct
Who tf cares, it’s about relatability and observing the characters
@@maplewhatever5581 in what way is that show relatable? 😭😭
@@maplewhatever5581 or “real” at all? It’s the most UNREALISTIC teenage show I’ve ever seen.
But can we talk about how Netflix loves to cast biracial girls/women instead of just giving us a Black girl? In Ginny and Georgia, she obviously had to be biracial because her parents are different races, but in other shows there are barely any monoracial Black/dark-skinned female main characters. Netflix is just seems obsessed with light-skinned people in general. I guess it's their "preference." The first thing that comes to mind is #RealityHigh.
This
Why couldn’t the mom and son be black?
@@sugarpearl9781 Im guessing because white moms and black dads are the most common interracial relationship instead of the other way around and I can testify to that
@@nynydabarbie how is that common when most people date within there own race? Also why is that the only couple we see beside ww/wm?
@@nynydabarbie It is possible to display interracial relationship that do not fit the constellation of the most common one. I mean, it‘s just possible to do that.
Apparently Hollywood remembers that often enough: white able bodied christian-ish cis straight middleclass men are by far overrepresented in movies, compared to how many of them actually exist in real society.
For me, my biggest issue with the hyper-feminine mean girl, the femme fatale and its eviler version the black widow is .. they all falsely equate female attractiveness with materialism, and female relationships with transactional relationships, or worse: exploitation. Imo, just like hyper-feminine mean girls shaped the "I'm not like other girls", the femme fatale and black widow have shaped the menosphere ("nice guys", incels, mgtow etc.).
It‘s not the women in the first place. It‘s society and patriarchy. Then some women decide to play by that rules for different reasons.
@@Alina_Schmidt For me, it's not even about that. There are rl materialistic people and transactional relationships. I don't think patriarchy created them, and I think such people and relationships would exist in a society free of patriarchal baggage. My point is rather: it's not for me to judge and project my concept of happiness onto other people,.
And that's what the tropes I mentioned are missing: 1) the perspective that the relationships these women have are not exploitative - the men too are getting something they want out of this, she is not a victimizer, he is not a victim, 2) it's not "evil" if it's a mutual understanding / transaction / consent, the women aren't acting at the expense of someone else, transactional relationships are not something to be looked down upon or judged.
Most importantly, we need more female tropes that depict women (in power), who don't indulge in materialism and/or transactional relationships and/or exploitation, because, while there are women like that either due to patriarchy or due to their own volition, there's way more women who are not like that.
.. and less depictions of the notion that whenever a woman is clever, talented, strong, attractive etc., she'd "automatically" "need" or "want" to _use_ men and other women, to achieve her goals or get into a position of power or wealth or respect. Here, I definitely agree with you that patriarchy is at play.
@@augustaseptemberova5664 Jessica from suits is a good example.
@@augustaseptemberova5664 I watched the devil wears Prada some weeks ago and it passed the bechdel test and yet still failed to break free of misogyny and I've been wanting to talk to people more about ACTUAL female power and empowerment- what does that look like? How does one gain it? Etc
@@arianam6430 I haven't watched this one, but now I'm gonna this weekend out of curiosity. The title already says a lot about what to expect, judging by your description.
Personally, the only movie depiction of a powerful female character in the lead role that I can somewhat identify with or look up to, is Lt. Ripley in Alien(s). Probably because her femininity isn't a plot device. She's a capable officer and survivalist who happens to be female. She shows realistic, relatable human traits as well as classically perceived as "female" traits, and these aren't portrayed as "tools" or "skills" she or anyone else exploits, neither as handicaps or advantages.
I also like Annalise Keating/Harkness from How to get away with murder. Not that I identify with her, but I liked how her character was written exploring elements of female tropes, but without reducing her to a trope. Mind you, I've only watched the first 2 or 3 seasons, so I have no clue about her further character progression.
The show also tried to do the race talk and that shit took me out the park. The whole using the black group as a fall back net because you are biracial and your white friends don’t want you anymore is so TIRED.
That part made me sad... For 1 she literally didn't even HAVE to choose! Like girl you can have Black and white friends its ok... and how she only hung out with the Black kids until her white friends accepted her again was so.... UGH
@@AMCW90 exactly! Whoever wrote that part and the whole part about her boyfriend telling her she wants black enough because she couldn’t twerk and stuff was disgusting. Very distasteful
@@AMCW90 She had no interest in being friends with Brachia in the first place, she feels insecure about her own skin tone. She literally went into the bathroom and cried.
@@ambergathings7160 exactly she had no interest in being with her black "friends " but she also seemed more happy and comfortable with her white friends.
I hope she realizes they're not her actual friends soon, because yeah I get it it's your first time making friends and being popular but come on girl they were fake from day one based on how they got your ass arrested!
In high school I started wearing shirts with cleavage and heels, makeup, and walking with confidence and suddenly I was regarded as a bitch by people who had never spoken to me. Once I stopped wearing makeup and dressed more conservatively purely because school is always freezing, I’d mention how people assume I’m a bitch and other people would go “what I never thought that? That wasn’t my first impression” and such but just after I stopped sexualizing myself as much. I’ve talked to other pretty girls and this is very much a real phenomenon. We get called a bitch just for being pretty and confident at the same time. Our beauty can only be enjoyed by others.
They probably got insecure. Maybe they felt that you were unapproachable. Just projection, but maybe you actually did start acting “Hollywood”.
People do this even if you AREN'T confident! I was really shy and self-conscious in school, but apparently because I liked to wear makeup and kept my hair long (part of my insecurities: I literally felt sick leaving the house if I didn't look "presentable" and also bc it was my way of hiding my depression) people who didn't even know me were like "yeah she's cold and weird and probably really self-absorbed." I also got called "frigid" *and* "slutty" at the SAME TIME, somehow 💀 a lot of it came from shitheaded guys but there were mean girls too.
People really do just look at you and think they can write your entire biography. It's honestly kind of sad.
Queen behavior, I wish I was as confident, my Asian and black parents could never let me
NOW THISS you just voiced what ive been trying to say
For what you was Wearing. Confidence Is internal. Beauty Is external.
you've just opened my eyes. now i get it. It's like when a man cheats on his wife and the wife goes after the mistress, that didn't know the man had a wife. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Another example is when women empower other women to be themselves and be whoever they want to be and not care what people say and then those same women get mad when Cardi b and Megan released WAP
Yes! I was literally talking about this like last week
OMG THIS MAKES ME SO MAD! Why is the other woman always attacked first? Like the person who you were in a relationship with, which is the man, is the only person you should really be upset with. Why attack the women who didn’t even know the man was married??
Eh, sometimes they do
I know a lot of situations where they know but don’t care, in rl and especially in shows/movies
Yeah, my eyes rolled deep when she got with the white guy. It's as if a mysterious force can't keep them apart. How about the creepy ass scenes whenever he enters her room and the show tries to frame it as "romantic"?
right! I really don't get the hype around that dude lol
Look outside of his race and notice the parallel their trying to draw between her choice in men and her mothers choice in men i.e Ginny’s biological father.
We all know if the black guy did that, her reaction to it would be more apt to what it should be, which is grossly unfair. Really saddening that we’re going into the third decade of the twenty-first century and still reinforcing not only unhealthy relationships, but double standards. Oh, and racism.
@@kiera6326 I think its wrong either way ( coming from a black man or a white man) and we shouldn't glamorize it or accept it. However she seemed to not have a problem with it so I honestly feel like my hands are tied and I can't complain.
and the fact that the reason why she suddenly realized that she "loved" him was because he *possibly* tried to KILL HIMSELF after he was rejected by her??? the toxicity of it all
“Females carry the marks, language and nuances of their culture more than the male. Anything that is desired or despised is always placed on the female body.“
- Wangechi Mutu
Men fight in wars and die so you can preserve the culture. Have some shame bruh.
Love love love that artist. She's amazing 💛
@@mariammohabbat most wars are because of woman who get in between men e.g Cleopatra. Or another example, Alexander the great. His wars wouldn't have happened if it weren't for his mother.
You cannot blame it on men alone but men alone die in wars thats my point.
Men love all people, animals, cultures not just their children as is the case for women. If woman are soo 'good' why dont they adopt little kids instead of having sex then carrying it for 9 months then getting your vagina destroyed? The answer is they are selfish to a degree (just the slightest) and cannot love unconditionally as they say unless it's their own flesh and blood. Men, I'll say again, have a greater burden. Not all men, some are useless.
@@mustafa8920 calling women selfish for wanting to get pregnant ? Bye
Thing is, when Lori started doing what she was doing- everyone started praising her for it and I was confused. They were like oh my gosh Lori is so smart not letting these men treat her any way and I'm like?? Thats the standard lol, shes not supposed to instantly become a baby mama or straggle on for six extra months looking foolish on social media. Lori is a woman that does what she is supposed to when she is not being treated right and now she found someone who is! And I thought every one knew thats how it was supposed to be but😴
the bar is in hell fr
@@rahma6992 lmao 🤣
💯💯💯👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
So she's not allowed to date like any other influencer.
true and I dislike the glamorization of Lori because to be quite honest aside from the wealth of the men she dates her taste is 🗑️. Diddy, Future, and a man 10 years older than her? Future is literally a serial baby daddy what is the appeal?
"it does not always take a push up bra and a mini skirt to have a man on his knees"
❤️
I read this the EXACT moment Tee said it. Pretty cool hahah
And she's right lol, she isn't just saying that.
@@thetornadocrusader968 😐😐
@@thetornadocrusader968 getting on your knees for a man and YOU BEING A MAN is a lil sus my guy.... whats ya bible say about that ? man shall not lay w man ?? /j
Katherine and Elena from The Vampire Diaries also exemplify the bridge between the damsel in distress and femme fatal. There is also a beautiful symmetry in this example because they're doppelgangers. It just serves to illustrates that these two stereotypes are mirror images of each other.
Women will backstab each other out of envy just sets us all back. I love seeing my sisters get their bread, we should celebrate that together
period!
Why?
@@jazharris2903 You watched the same video as I did, Tee explained it
@@ArteiceTB why do women have to always be nice though? Men aren't nice to each other; why do we have to play into the stereotype of being comforting and welcoming?
@@jazharris2903 It's also playing into sterotypes of being catty and sabotaging each other. Women need to uplift each other instead of hating on each other's success. And if they wanna be haters, they should ignore it and work on themselves instead.
Ugh, thank you for bringing up women hating on women because they embrace their beauty and sexuality. I will never forgive myself for hating on famous, beautiful, female figures simply because I was envious. Meghan Fox is the first example that comes to my mind. But, I was super young when that happened so I understand it wasn't completely my fault, still, not my proudest moment. I would also like to bring up the fact that this starts FUCKING YOUNG!! EVER SINCE I WAS A 4 YEAR OLD I WAS TRYING TO GAIN APPROVAL FROM MEEEEEEEEEEN!!! AAAAAAAAAARGH! All I wanted was to be accepted, so I dressed more masculine, I tried playing games at recess that were "boy sports", AND I STILL DO IT!!! I don't even feel comfortable with my own femininity anymore because my dad was always telling me that I couldn't wear certain clothing because "they were too tight". HE ALMOST KEPT ME HOME FROM SCHOOL BECAUSE MY SHORTS WERE TOO SHORT!! I WAS IN FOURTH GRADE!!!. This is all rooted in sexism (as you said) and we need to start teaching parents not to tell their young children they can't wear certain things "because they're concerned for their sAfEty" Hey, maybe make the world fucking safer instead of letting young kids wrestle with the consequences! FUCK!
Anyway, awesome video, as always, have a good day.
Okay but why is this literally me💀 like when I was young I would try to 🤢 gain the approval of my male classmates too. It for real starts young, like one time in elementary school this guy came up to me and he was like "I like your shoes :-)" cuz I had on these red Nikes or whatever and I remember I was like "OMG THANK YOU😃" and I was so proud like that is so problematic😭😭 even when I picked them out at the store I was "yes, these will make me popular : )" and also my dad was thee exact same way with my sister, like he dictated so many of her outfits and she wasn't allowed to wear certain things. She told me she asked him if she could wear fake eye-lashes and he was like "I'll think about it .3." and then he forgot so she just bought loll cuz she didn't care anymore😭 Forchently when she went to college she didn't have anymore restrictions and could wear what she wanted
Dym nobody should have kids cause the world isn’t safe 😭
@@seeegaaaa Brooo, what is this world?!?! Like, i'm glad that someone can relate to me, but also super sad that what's going on isn't its own isolated incident. Smh.
@@somegrill7561 Oh, nah, nah, lol. I'm just saying that children shouldn't have to bear the consequences of an adult issue. If parents actually made an effort to make the world safer rather than just teaching their kids to cope they wouldn't have to deal with all the shit that they do.
I feel like this narrative of women hating more successful or more beautiful women is also a narrative created by men to keep women behind. Why cant we accept that there are many different beauty standards and that not only a single body type should be celebrated? Also as a women I don't hate on other more beautiful or more successful women because it simply is a waste of time and has No real value. What personally frustrates me is expecting other women to constantly be cheering on other women simply because they are not pretty enough or don't make the cut. Everyone has their own lives and needs and we cannot always be the ones cheering for others like it's our job. I never see these pretty girls getting called out somehow its always the average normal women. Its exhausting.
The entire TVD plot is those tropes😂😂
Katherine's the Femme Fatale and Elena's the Damsel in Distress
yuppppp
And like she said .. it’s the same person
"She gets caught, she dies or worse... she falls in love" hahah, gotta love that
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
"in order for all of us to win, the whole system has to be eradicated"
-Tee Noir
Tee : "did y'all miss me?"
me screaming "OMG YESS" while smiling alone in my room
IMO this is just the modern director’s excuse to carry on focusing on the male gaze. “We can use her body as an object because she’s a strong, independent woman”. Even though that camera pan up her leg did absolutely nothing for the plot or scene-setting...
YES! THANK YOU!
They also do that to deflect criticism.
"Um ackshually those gratuitous camera angles are very important to the plot because she's like empowered and stuff, by criticising me you just admitted that you hate women. Checkmate haters 😎"
(Don't get me wrong I don't really care about fanservice or whatever in a series, but the transparency is funny.)
I admire you you help me grow not as a teen not as a boy not as a man not as a person of colour but as a person so I'll be forever thankful to you!
Are you god
Beautiful boi handsome boi generous boi humble bo-
Travis Dean my drip is past the gods
wtf is your username lmao
the femme fatale is reminding me of this quote that I cannot for the life of me remember completely or where it was from but it goes something like: In the Bible it was Eve and not Adam who was tempted by the serpent and caused original sin for all of humanity and something something... basically women being represented as men's weakness and the cause of men's downfall. Men using narratives to blame women for their shortcomings, and men portraying women as some sort of malicious seductress who gets punished in the end is like not to far from that. Idk it's all very incel-ish to me.
true
There's also Pandora in Greek mythology, who opened the box and cause evil For All Mankind
+ Lilith !!
@@fievrelysis2470 Lilith is queen 👑
Abrahamic religions always make women villains to the point where other women see each other as the same from this sick brainwashing which was all done to worship men without any disturbances since these religions needed that father God image to be strong in the psyche of people without the image of mother God or a gender neutral energy of God disturbing that male worship.
The making of a pick me starts in the home with these same principles which we see our own mothers displaying with the internalised misogyny they were taught from birth. The way they make the women villains actually shows the power women have in many ways to the extent that they can destroy the stronghold these religions and cultural norms have in society.
I won't get tired of saying this. We need a lesbian femme fatale !!! 😩
My life goal.
It's a cartoon but there is a lesbian that i would consider a femme fatale in She-ra and the princesses of power
Uhh Santana Lopez from glee lol, but we do need way more
@@err8380 WHO
you should watch killing eve, it might be what you are looking for :)
At this point Hollywood should just say they hate women because these tropes specific made for women are often times rooted in misogyny, toxicity or is flat out negative . Smh 🤦🏾♀️
Right! But we all know Hollywood is racist and misogynistic doesn’t mean we should ignore it tho we gotta take it down
One petpeeve I have with the "Femme Fatal"? She is meant to be a tough, and independant woman...Yet in 99% of plots she is used as a Honeypot. Literally her "strength" is only used as it relates to male desires. Like can we get a Lucy Lawless again (Xena)? Cause the Black Widow type is overdone.....
Edit: Oh yes, now ya mention it... the "tamed wild horse" is annoying AF. Hence why I liked Erin Brochavich. She stayed kinda trailor trash and sexy but learned to balance t with professionalism, and as a result she takes on one of the nations largest class action suits AND WINS! Bonus (possibly why she is less toxic then other femme fetals as well), Erin is based on a real world woman. One tough as nails, able to care for her kids, display her body with pride and not afraid to go waaaay beyond her comfort zone to achieve a seemingly impossible task.
UGH YES Xena was it for me
Also a real life femme is Cleopatra. Contrary to what the entertainment industry has portrayed her she wasn't by the definition of the time attractive. What she was, was extremely intelligent ans more educated than most men as well as fluent in multiple languages. She used her intelligence, charm to disarm and enchant the men around her so she could retain her power. The idea that a seemingly unattractive woman could hold any type of power and control over men is unbelievable to men and their ego so they rewrote history in the retelling of her story to diminish her intelligence and hype up her sexuality.
The facts this girl talks I can’t when someone doesn’t believe me I’ll show them one of your vids
I don't even argue with people anymore
I just share her videos
@@lebogangkhumalo7823 perioddd
purrr
as u should
I really like the way Crazy ex girlfriend deconstructed the femme fatal trope. The main character Rebecca is deeply hurt by something that her ex did, and she vows to get revenge and she spends a few episodes trying, but it’s clear to literally everyone around her that all her actions are more self destructive than hurting the person she’s sworn to get revenge on. After like 4 episodes this basically crashes and burns in an amazing but completely self destructive way, and the rest of the series has a lot of focus on her healing. It’s almost completely centred around Rebecca and why she feels this way and her actions, rather than the guy she’s getting revenge over and it’s done with such respect.
I feel like there's another important message there that people don't like to hear, but need: most people *don't* get revenge, and it's probably not worth it anyway. And just because something seems empowering or uplifts other people doesn't mean it'll work for you.
the "until they're not relatable anymore" is so real. you're always making the best videos fr
Imo it was made for straight men specifically
made by straight men for straight men😍😔
This kinda goes without saying
I want to see a woman, just a single woman in an action movie who is unapologetically tomboyish or masculine. I've literally never seen this before. I want to see a female protagonist that literally doesn't care at all about men. An ace heroine. Or a lesbian one. That would be so refreshing to see. I've never seen an action movie that doesn't include romance, so an aro ace protagonist would be really interesting.
@@purplekitten6637 I think “ not caring about men” is kinda just dehumanizing to the character and seems toxic... but a character that doesn’t care about the view points of men on herself and is freely and unapologetically herself is good
It was! It started off as the Jezebel in the 20s and 30s who would lure men away from traditional values like marriage. A lot of this tension was constructed geographically in terms of the city vs the country. By the introduction of the production code (Hollywood censorship code), a lot of filmmakers were limited to writing about amoral characters as long as they got their comeuppance at the end. So sexually liberated women could only be written about if they were punished by the end of the film to be green lit and not censored. And this carries on with the femme fatale trope in the film noir era where women who exercised their right to be sexual beings were killed at the end of the movie.
And I just love how they sprinkled the only black character in the series that went to Ginny school in only three or four scenes through out the entire season.
Ginny had no interest in being friends with her.
I feel like that was kind of the point though, like Ginny had trouble connecting with the Black part of her identity
@@amandaadams1759 Because she chose not to. Only when it was convenient to her so she could fight with Hunter, who is also a minority.
Ginny is a black character but I get what you mean.
@@theimplications635 She is mixed, this means she is both black and white. Brachia, was one of the only black people in the show and Ginny brushed her off.
This is the first time I’ve heard somebody talk about Ginny & Georgia without bashing Ginny. 🤣 Like I don’t even watch that show but all I see is ppl going “wahh I hate Ginny she’s so selfish”, I didn’t even know this show was actually about a femme fatale!
Same, I see people bashing Ginny but not a lot of people bash her friends or even Marcus, the guy who literally broke into a girl's house, took her virginity and pretty much abandoned her.
if you watch the show, you’ll get why we hate Ginny
@@meme0218 She's awful.
It's only female that get treated this way
The implications EXACTLY OMG
Another "femme fatale" who was really well-written, at least in my mind as a 16-year-old loser girl mind, would be Meg from the Hercules movie. I saw a really good video on it and I'll come back and edit this comment adding a link to it, but It really just broke down how badass Meg really was and how she did eventually fall in love with Hercules, but in no way did she stop being a badass, as well as showed her damsel side that still lurked under the surface from her past.
Where the video at ??🤣
@@alyssalane3442 lmao I still haven't found it yet lemme go look again 💀💀💀
@@alyssalane3442 ruclips.net/video/WfivkjgGdmI/видео.html I believe it was her video
AAA, Tee, you hit it out of the park again! Thank you for mentioning me
you're growing so fast!!! I love to see it!!! You're my favorite channel to listen to on these topics also, the video was very thought provoking as well
Bro Ginny and Georgia was wild af what in the riverdale was that tap dancing scene
what in the riverdale was that song 🥴
@@aracellilo2341 a jazz version of happy birthday??? and everyone clapped??????
I thought that was cute.
I couldn't even finish the second episode. Ginny is so fucking annoying. 😒
It was so weird
"it does not always take a push up bra and a mini skirt to have a man on his knees". 😂😂
I felt Georgia’s story was actually interesting. She was in control of way more than people seem to give her credit for. We have to be honest that the cliche “ femme fatale” trope is really a survival tactic for plenty of young girls and women unfortunately. A true deep dive into Ginny & Georgia would be nice.
Tee's videos giving me life, as usual 😍🥺
Tee: "Y'all know about (insert person or show)"
Me not knowing a clue: "... sure, let's go with that"
"This show was not great... to me" Actually almost every single youtube videos about that film agreed 😂
I think everyone agreed
I feel like it was the "hot" white guy that made ppl keep watching but the show actually wasn't that good to me.
@@fans-ed1td he made me wanna turn off the show 😭 he was so manipulative and toxic
@@ramiyahlee6108 are we talking about paul?? or marcus
@@danielmorris6804 marcus lmaooo
Hey Tee I hope you're okay
Can you please make a video addressing the victim blaming and improper male behavior towards women in Jamaica
The whole thing about Khanice is messy
Idk if I phrases that right😅
You did great! I agree
You phrased it perfectly fine:)
Also on how the men keep trying to push the issue of violence against women away by saying there is violence against men.
And when you explain to them that this time it's for violence against women they go off. Rolls eyes. At this point I'm tired of this. Cause nobody ever said we never cared about violence against men. I hate it how when a group of persons or an individual goes through something traumatic or hurtful there is always people talking bout oh, that's the least there is this issue too. Or you're whining too much as blah blah has issues too.
I just can't with the bull.
“now where my West Indies? Where tf my curry chicken and my rice and peas?” 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
OKAYYYYYY
Tee's channel isn't just a channel, this is real, modern philosophy. Her words have such weight, I can't even choose a segment to quote because it all hit so hard.
exactly.
You're like Whitney Houston, the art of keeping your people waiting but don't even get mad about it, priceless 😂😂😂😂
this reminds me of when everyone hated (and some still do?) Taylor Swift for writing songs about her exes & dating people - even though she really didn't date a lot of people, and even if she did, why is that anyone's business?
omg frr from the way ppl talk about her i though she dated all of hollywood (which would still be fine) but she dated like 12 guys?? people really made such a big deal over nothing
The fact that the whole world started hating on her simply because she lied? Like we all know EVERYONE was just waiting for her to mess up even just a little bit to cancel her.
@@ajf1219 and the thing was she never even lied in the whole situation. She was telling the truth the whole time 💀
@@sienh She was telling the truth? Umm how? She didn't say how it isn't nice for men to call women bitches in her speech, she said it isn't right for others to try and undercut your success by taking credit for your success and fame- "As the first woman to win Album of the Year at the Grammys twice, I want to say to all the young women out there, there will be people along the way who will try to undercut your success, or take credit for your accomplishments or your fame. But if you just focus on the work … you will look around and you will know that it was you and the people who love you that put you there."
She *never* once referenced being called "that bitch" in her speech. Her speech was entirely about people who try and take credit for your success. Her speech was about Kanye line saying he made her famous- i.e. people who "take credit for your accomplishments or your fame" *not* about people who use the term that bitch, a word that was never once mentioned in her speech. She did not make a speech about how people should use the word bitch, nor did she make a speech about how people shouldn't use sexist or derogatory terms, she made a speech about how people shouldn't take credit for your accomplishments. Except she had already literally gave Kanye her blessing to say he made her famous i.e. to "take credit for your accomplishments or your fame." It was fake outrage about him taking credit for her success despite her literally approving of him doing just that.
She only switched the narrative after the video came out. An obvious backtrack which makes zero sense as her statement after the video does not track at all with the speech she made. Her grievances in her speech were completely different to her supposed grievance after the video came out. It's pretty hard to continue to pretend to be upset that someone took "credit for your accomplishments or your fame" after we all watched a video of you literally telling them they could do just that. So instead she pretended that all along her argument was that she upset that he called her that bitch, except it wasn't and all you have to do is look at the speech transcript and see that for yourself. Show me the term "that bitch" in her original speech. You can't. You cannot rewrite her speech or history. She said what she said and it had literally nothing to with him calling her that bitch, it had to do with him taking "credit for your accomplishments or your fame" which was pretty odd considering she approved of him doing just that.
@@perfectchemistry8291 jesus, you wrote a whole essay about how taylor yet failed to actually realise the grammys speech wasn't the only place she made statements about kanye or famous. You just completely omitted the statement taylors publicist made about famous, saying that taylor was never told about the lyric, "I made that bitch famous," which was why it made her so furious especially since it was so derogatory in context. You also said she switched the narrative after the video came out but it seems as though you didn't even watch the video because if you did, you'd realise she was telling the truth the whole time. It's also quite hypocritical for you too since you're changing and omitting events from the narrative to fit your version of events lmao! You must have a miserable life to actually care so much about a celebrity who doesn't even know you exist. I wish you the best of luck in life because you'll need it 💀
- sincerely a taylor AND kanye fan
YAHAAsss I have been WAITING for this
i loved georgias story line, ginny is too whiny and thinks the world revolves around her
Same anything Ginny was rude to her mom i was like 'SHUT UP VIRGINIA"
AGREED, finally a valid comment
I am obsessed with Simone Biles especially after her absolute power play for mental health in the Olympics. Like what a fucking bad ass.
me too
ur channel is my new obsession I've been binge watching you for 3 days straight
you are so smart and well spoken I love listening to you talk
I would love for a whole video on the question/ statement you posed at around 7:20. “ how we as society view women who make their sexuality a permanent part of their womanhood” because I think a lot of women still struggle with this idea.
The Femme Fatale is an archetype that really can't be separated from fragile masculinity (at least in terms of its origin). So many things wrapped up in fears of castration, it really is a Freudian field day.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 the patriarchy always needs to find an excuse for their weak-willedness & character flaws
"That is the bridge between the damsel in distress and the femme fatal awareness of her power and what she chooses to do with it" WOAH!
As a trauma survivo and author, i agree with the patr of writers delving into trauma. Like, bruh, I'm an orphan who lost both of my parents before highschool in horrible ways, and my early life was so traumatic I almost ended my life. But if my life was a late-night drama, I bet they'd just go over it in 5 seconds or some shit.
You’re the first person I’ve seen articulate my gripes with this show (aside from Ginny being an annoying brat) they didn’t go anywhere with the many issues they presented. Especially since Ginny was presented as so intelligent and “woke” in the first episode I was wondering when is she gonna check these bitches? But even her internal monologue didn’t even take issue with the micro aggressions or even acknowledge the many things they TRIED to address. With such a white cast and therefore a white audience I’m disappointed with how they handled a lot of the stuff they pointed out on the show. This show had so much potential but they really dropped the ball trying to do too much without doing anything.
The way I was just about to start writing an essay of the femme fatale lmao
I guess men really loves the trope Femme Fatale gosh this almost feels like 2013 "i'm-not-like-the-other-girls" phase again-
Yup, yup, yup.
that trope has almost always existed.. i remember it in the 90s in elementary school, in so much media over my whole life.
i fought so hard to be seen as at least a tomboy, as young as like 7 or 8 i remember not feeling like i wanted to be, or was accepted by "other girls"
*not to invalidate the 2013 phase idea. i just think that every generation has a rolling effect of realization or whatever it is.
I don't think men enjoy being manipulated.
@@queenofzenk this reminds me of my old days of refusing to wear makeup and hating the color pink makes me unique lol. But, this makes sense as well. Until today this trope is still everywhere, to the point i think that this might not be a phase but a "character" idea...
@Orion Jean true.
Did Tee just say "foot on the Gas, 200 on the dash?"
Snaps for you honey, that was poetry!
Lmfaaoo you just made me reread this in my “floetry ” voice
@@fatimafernand695 😂😂😂
@@fatimafernand695 stealing patriarchy lyrics. Stick to your WAP non sense.
@@mustafa8920 you maaaad, I can’t argue witchuu. Look at ya... I can’t argue witchuu
fr and with the self harm they really had marcus say "don't do that, for me :(((" and ginny fucking said "okay, all done now!"
often a “femme fatale”’s whole character revolves around men, creating misconceptions. wish they’d focus on other things more.
Then its not a femme fatale a femme fatale is a women who seduce men everything is about male
I would love to have a conversation about life with you like wow. I love you Tee, you've really made me grow as a person and in my knowledge in general so thank you for that
I literally have "femme fatale" tatted on my left arm,, and I got it because throughout my life I've struggled to embrace my femininity and sexuality... it's a reminder of what I want to be
8:34 yeeeeeesss. I'm hyperfeminine but this is so important-
Ginny and Georgia was the first show in which I rooted for the "cool guy", bc he and Ginny really have a connection while she and the "sweet guy" have literally none. She was pushed into this relationship and did not dare to end it. Damn, I thought "sweet guy" was cold towards her in person but loved the attention.
Your voice is so poised and calming. You also explain everything so well. I could honestly listen to you all day, everyday. Also you said nothing but the truth. I always hated, hated, HATED how the media, other video vixens & Tyra treated Karrine Steffans. She did nothing but tell the truth. And other people just couldn't handle the truth. I always loved how she handled that interview. She didn't let "pick me" ass Tyra get her mad, and that frustated Tyra even more. She just didn't give her the satisfaction of getting angry or cussing her out. And I admire that about her.💕
This is why I like Irene Adler on Sherlock because it's made clear that she's just as smart as Sherlock and that her power comes from her awareness and her own intelligence rather than a dependence on men. It's revealed that she isn't even attracted to men, but what's significant is that she understands how to utilize sex to access a position that men cannot.
I love “the woman” and her ability to “wreck” two married politicians’ heterosexual home while being homosexual by having an affair with both simultaneously. Loool.
Do you mean how she’s portrayed in the book? In the show, it was all well and good until Irene, proven by the show’s past hour of runtime to be an absolute genius, suddenly became a silly, lovestruck girl who just couldn’t help but set her crush’s name as her phone password 😒
Speaking of Sherlock there's an anime version and she was just recently introduced. Love her character already, my girl outsmarted Sherlock in those 20 mins lol (keep in mind I'm not familiar with Sherlock, just watching the anime)
bbc irene is one of the worst characters. i recommend hbomberguy's sherlock video, cause that whole show was 😐😐
@@elpidak6554 OMG every time I see someone recommend him or that video I feel compelled to comment on it/and or thank them. What a guy ✌️
Not me getting in bed and immediately getting your video notification. This nap gone have to wait 🙄
Lori Harvey and Saweetie are two women I see that are constantly harassed simply because they're black, beautiful and, successful. It genuinely makes no sense to me.
Genuine question: what makes Lori Harvey successful?
Saweetie is biracial tho
I agree but, sawed tie is not black she is biracial let’s get that cleared.
@@sunnybird6089 she's steve harvey's daughter and she used to date trey songz, and is dating michael b. jordan rn
@@sunnybird6089 shes a socialite
i just know her essays in school were FIRE. love you btw❤️
She did this video so well that when she mentioned Ginny and Georiga at the end I forgot that's where the video topic started
This video is the literal reason why I love women 🌈🌈🌈
sometimes i feel like charlie day in front of the board with all the red strings yelling " it's all internalized misogyny!! "
It IS all internalised misogyny tho
One thing about me is I’ve actually never been relaxed, ever.
Is a whole mood.
That was such a hot take on the trope ngl- The women turning on other women and policing them out of jealousy 😳😳😳
Girl, Where You At?????
Not you droppin a video on the day i accept a travel nurse job, really put the cherry on top of my already great day!! You go Glenn Coco!!
I mean, the femme fatale is literally a villain archetype created to warn against female sexuality. Goes without saying it'd be misogynistic, and thats also the reason they lose in end (as villains do)
I don't understand why the trope is being analysed as if it's something that's supposed to be 'Revolutionary', this trope goes as far back as the bible.
exactly, "femme fatale" characters always have this villainous shade
There was no central plot to the show, it was so surface level that it actually didnt talk about the issues properly.
I love how articulate you are and you know exactly how you feel. Its so inspiring.
I personally blame vampire diaries for teaching me the angry distant dangerous men are hot trope... gurrrrl I was a dumbass during my campus days 👀