No… I’m sticking with Legion, as I feel that it’s still very active and I have a heavy investment in it. My biggest issues with AMG are how they’ve handled their current licensed games and how spread out they’re becoming. I feel that AMG is making huge production mistakes (card errata, missing cards and physical model issues). And they made this new Shatterpoint game a different scale from Legion. And from my experience with MCP, their minis will be $20-25 each. But I’m also not AMGs target audience now. I was FFG’s audience and I hope that Asmodee is paying close attention to this situation.
I wish AMG would do a reprint of all the Legion cards that have changed. It annoys me having to keep up with all the changes to characters and Command cards. Would be an easy money maker for them.
Currently getting into Legion and it’s pretty confusing with the amount of keywords. Haven’t given up yet but also looking into indie rules for something more streamlined that would still give me the fun factor of playing with SW minis. That said, I really don’t like the art style of Shatterpoint so I’m not going that way either!
Important to remember one can always use the figures for either game (or the old pre-paints) with any rules you want. Plenty of indie ones can work with the SW setting - Blasters & Bulkheads, Space Weirdos, Galactic Heroes, Pulp Alley, Stargrunt (and many more for for fighter or fleet space games).
@@TabletopOddity All those are DiY rules, though many have franchises like SW already rated by other players. The only ones needing cards for gameplay either just need a regular deck of playing cards or you can print the cards out yourself (though fancier ones are available). I use B&B and GH, but Space Weirdos costs $5 and requires nothing else that can't be scrounged up.
One thing I don't think I've seen anyone else mention is this format of game likely makes it easier to bring characters from the sequel trilogy into the game. Those movies didn't have any 'big' land battles that would work at a Legion scale, but plenty of smaller scale conflicts that would be perfect for Shatterpoint.
I love Legion and don’t experience the meta/gameplay problems you have but I have had trouble getting games in with family in the balance. My hope is Legion is around for the long haul. It’s incredibly balanced right now. If the rule set continues to evolve in the right direction then it should have staying power. If Shatterpoint is totally casual play (which AMG seems to prefer) I think there will be a place for both. If it gets competitive I think the same issues you find in Legion will show up but be magnified b/c of the skirmish nature of the game. Skirmish Legion tends to suffer from this already (force users and heavies too strong; games tend to turn into elimination matches).
I think Legion is incredibly balanced. It’s still my favourite game overall, and while I would like some narrative gameplay options, I think Legion has gone from strength to strength. It should be noted that I exclusively play casually. Each to their own though! I always felt Crisis Protocol was a little too random (and often leads to a big brawl around the objective)
It sucks that Asmodee has put us in a position where some will have to choose to quit one or the other. If they just used the same scale you could still go 90% into shatter point and still play a game of Legion every now and then without having the expense of 2 full games.
@@TabletopOddity So you are assuming that the IP worries about Scale in the games? So if they would make minis of the same scale than Legion, there would be a problem with existing agreements? I do assume that this will be essentially a re-skin of MCP, with some new mechanics to differentiate the two IP's.
@@RandomDude-jq9mu No, I am assuming that there is difficulties with IP licensing because they would be the same game but not really. Like GW own Kill team and 40k, so no issues, but AMG are buying the IP, what if they lose the license for one of the games or something. I don't know, I just suspect it is complicated
@@TabletopOddity I doubt it’s complicated at all and it comes down to the almighty dollar. You could still keep it the same scale and release new sculpts making it a “new” product. People would use legion miniatures though and AMG would’t get as much money though.
Actually agree with many of your points. I’ve been trying to make Legion a squad based game on my own and this new announcement has me kind of excited. I do hope it will include different eras so I can ply some storm troopers and death troopers. We will see.
Shatterpoint is’t as fun as legion in my opinion, AMG is trying their best to promote it but its boring compared to legion and even games like X wing or Armada which they canceled because they are trying to put more money into their new games like Shatterpoint and the Marvel game which makes me disappointed because Armada and X wing had more interesting gameplay than a game where it is hard for Anakin to kill a B1 battle Droid :(
I agree with pretty much all your points, but the meta thing is true of basically any game. There will be optimal lists for every game, that's why playing narrative focused games and casual is the best bet, versus going to a tournament where the goal is to win at all costs. Pretty much every game can be played with a narrative and setting home rules on specific unit choices can help to keep a game light and friendly, not either of you trying to ball stomp the other. If you're interested in other sci-fi games, Infinity Codeone is a lighter version of Infinity N4 and both systems have all their rules constantly updated on their army builder app, so you don't have cards that are outdated.
@@TabletopOddity For fantasy, I'd recommend Relicblade, which is fairly light and plays quick on a 2x2 board. Outside of that, A Song of Blades and Heroes, as well as Pulp Alley are both great rule sets that offer a ton of flexibility in unit creation and they're both miniatures agnostic systems.
I started playing Shatterpoint in October or November 2023. At first, it was a blast. But now that they are releasing more expansion squads, people I play with have started teaming up characters on the same squad that were deadly enemies in the movies and TV shows. Grievous and Obi Wan. Anakin and Dooku. They're doing it to make unbeatable teams that have strong combinations. The cinematic and thematic elements are what first attracted me to the game. It just wrecks the game for me and exposes the boredom that this game can sometimes bring out.
I totally respect the video and your insight, though I’m a little confused at some of your points. To say that your want a more beer and pretzels game that is smaller scale and quicker would be a totally acceptable reason to switch. Though to say that legion’s balance isn’t great but then say you’re not a competitive player? That seems contradictory. It’s also confusing to critique legion’s rules bloat and hard-to-find erratas when the same maker of legion and other games where that’s an issue is making this new game. Doesn’t part of you believe that the same issues will arise? Love the content, and look forward to more in the future! I just worry that it’s ok to play both and consider they’re both very different experiences rather than throw one game in the trash all together.
My opinion is not overly informed these days, and I am not sure I made that point well enough. My views on competitive play comes from experienced comeptitive players who are some of the best in the business. also I think the game itself is perhaps very stregic and tactical in design, which makes it comeptitive. Like compare Legion to Warcry, I think the best Legion player beats the average Legin played like 9.9 times out of 10, but the best warcry player might beat an average Warcry player 7 out of 10. I don't know if I am making sense there. I agree that Shatterpoint will go the same way because it's made by the same people. I enjoyed Legion more when it was perhaps more basic. So you are very right, it is contridictory but hopefully in an understandable way.
Thanks for your honesty! I understand your feelings. But what I dont understand is, how the Old World will fit into this? It will be (probably, as we GW know) an even bigger, even longer, even crunchier, even more expensive game then SWL.
Easy right. But no, I am actually okay with simple, and yes I want a balcned game with not a shed ton of updates, now that one I appreciate is difficult. But also I do want a casual game but I am okay with losing at tournaments. It seems you are putting words in my mouth which I don't think I said. I think the issues are more nuanced than they seem though. Some times it's how they are done. For example you can have a simple game that is easy to learn difficult to master, or vice versa. And for losing at a tournament, I sort of want a casual competitive game, which means, if I play someone better than me, I want the other player to win maybe like 7 out of 10, as oppose to like 9 out of 10. I am not expecting one game to cover everything I want, but Legion wasn't covering anything I wanted anymore.
Yeahhh...I relate very much honestly. More and moreso over the last six months. As you say, you can run an army that isn't inherently bad, but anyone who runs a competitive list (as all but one person I've faced does), will have a decisive upper hand. At the end of the day, I'm a casual player, but while Legion isn't 40k in it's competitiveness, it still very much owes itself to the competitive side of things. After having more recently started collecting Marvel Crisis Protocol, I've been having a blast. Every game I've played, from my first ever game to my most recent, I've felt like I stood a chance, and that's even when I play a weaker faction (Spider-Foes) into more "competitive" ones. I have won various times now, unlike Legion where I've been obliterated time and time again over the last two years. I'm more of a casual player, who enjoys a little competitiveness on the side, so this will be a much better fit for me too
Honestly at this point I dont believe Star Wars legion will get any support for the clone wars. Cival War era has such an insane amount of units already I just dont trust them anymore. And this is not an AMG problem, FFG also didnt really put in the effort. The fact that magnaguards came soo extreemly late is proof enough for me. Ill keep playing legion, but my main focus will shift for sure.
Just started watching. If "rules bloat" is an issue for you with Legion, I suggest looking into a fan-made modification of other small battle rules, like Star Wars: Chain of Command, which is the Chain of Command WW2 ruleset using the Legion figures.
I havent played Star Wars Shatterpoint or Marvel: Crisis Protocol (so I cant say), but I do play both Wh40k and SW Legion and i find it (from your comments) that maybe you simply find it more fun, to play a smaller amount model tabletopgame maybe. Then Star Wars Shatterpoint should be just fine! And few models you have, actually look nicer.
I'm much more likely to drop MCP for Shatterpoint. Legion and Shatterpoint scratch very different itches for me. It's the same reason I play both X-Wing and Armada.
Exactly the same reasons I will be dropping legion. Legion was my "for fun" game and when I went to tournaments people were pulling bizarre card combos that made troops basically unkillable if you didn't hace another ubercombo. Same with the time and the size of the board. Too difficult to find the time and place for it.
I stick with Legion for sure. They both looks like completely different games. I'll wait for more information about Shatterpoint before jumping into hype-train
Oooooo this may be the one that brings me back to tabletop gaming! I bought legion on launch, haven’t played it for over a year now at least. Skirmish is also much more my kinda thing when it comes to painting as you say, painting 20 stormtroopers nearly killed me from tedious boredom haha
@@mikep3494 difficult to get my 12 year old interested in that, too much choice for her way of thinking I’m afraid, will be a lot easier when the choices are cut back in this game, well, I imagine it will be easier for her
And that's the sticking point, we can argue that they will only sell one, and there's no need for multiple, we can argue that it's half an army but 4 models fo $50 just seems high
Personally, I’m obsessed with table top. 6 40K armies and 2 legion armies. And I tried kill team and will probably try shatterpoint, but I prefer large army v army games. Some of my favourite games were 5000 points+ but granted buddy and I needed narrative behind it and custom actions/objectives. You make some points, but some people who understand balance better than me, created missions for me and buddy and had a blast. But that’s my thing.
I've had the exact same experience as you. I love Star Wars, I like miniatures games, I've really come to like Crisis Protocol and that's why I'll be focusing on MCP and Shatterpoint. I too found that I liked the IDEA of Leion more than I actually liked playing it. It's a great game, but not a great game for me.
Yeah I think I just want more chaos. I've lost legion games due to dice and one specific moment and while that feels bad, I think it feels worse because there's not much randomness in the game so the few moments stand out.... Not explaining myself well. But yes legion is good but SharePoint suits me and my life
dude, is this clickbait or just ignorance? "I'm leaving a popular game for one I know LITERALLY NOTHING about...." seriously? Are we supposed to take you seriously now? If you said "I'm quitting Legion" and listed the reasons, those are rational. "I'm leaving a game for something nobody knows anything about" isn't rational. It's clickbait at best. Ignorant blathering at worst. Please think through your content a bit before you throw out stuff like this. "This game will probably be" is truly the most common phrase in this video. Let's all just pause and consider how ill-conceived that is. You may as well have said "I'm leaving Legion for a game I hope someone builds and releases in 2025. I'm imagining a miniatures game. I'll bet it's awesome, and it comes out in 2025. In my mind, it's a great game and fixes everything I don't like about Legion" bleh. Have to unsub after this.
I have no idea if shatterpoint will be good, but if it isn't, I don't mind, I just won't play it. I know it's going to be a skirmish game that very likely plays quickly, if they make it badly then they make it badly and I won't play. If it isn't what I want, that is also okay. I am not sure I understand your issue? I tried to make it semi clear that I was pretty much done with Legion anyway, this is just the final death blow to me.
We play Legion as beer and pretzels game...just choose the units we like and the info on the cards they come with...Great craic! Never tried to keep up with the latest updates, don't care about imbalance...when was war a balance of armies going up against each other... I won't be getting shatterpoint. Cheers!
Luckily my friends and i build more thematic and fun lists than competitive and meta lists so our battles feel more like a clone wars episode. It makes every mission more nail biting and engaging since we’re using units and upgrades that maybe aren’t the most optimal but it challenges you to make do with what you got
It's always good to go to other games. I took a break from Warhammer AoS to invest more in Legion, and while I still enjoy Legion much more than AoS, the time I spent away from it in Legion helped me realize what I really liked about AoS by what I found myself missing.
Oddly enough, I might choose to play both. For Legion, I went with Galactic Civil War (Empire vs. Rebels), but the Shatterpoint starter box would scratch that Clone Wars itch…
Yes I know this was for ever ago. My comment, why would you need to abandon one game to play another? Do you not have the mental flexibility to play two separate games? Because in my house, not counting chess and draughts, we have about 12 or more miniature games we play from historic to sci-fi and so on.
I’m going to be playing both games on the regular. For anyone panicking on legion dying that won’t happen for a while. If anything x-wing and armada are gonna die off first. I’m happy this game is coming out as I love the mcp system. It’ll be fun to play this then hop into an 800 point legion game right after.
I used to play a bunch of Warhammer 40k back in high school and hadn't really played any miniature games since then. Now looking to get back into it, but I'm older and my tastes have changed. Legion looks like it's too much for me. Whereas with Shatterpoint, I feel like I can better afford to get into it AND also another (smaller scale) miniature wargame, such as Fallout: Wasteland Warfare, which I'm super excited about. But either way, really looking forward to getting back into the hobby, and I'm hyped to see miniature games that both include IPs that I love, as well as feature smaller scale battles that better suit where I'm at these days.
I think Shatterpoint will be cheapish to play (the starter box gives you 2 full "armies" which you can then mix around in loads of combinations) but way more expensive to collect everything. But yeah quicker games, smaller number of minis....good
Have to do what is right for you. I have collected everything with Legion and love playing it. I don't keep up with the meta and rule changes so I just play as is. Some days we play epic battles that are multi hour and other days we take 10-15 guys and play a skirmish style battle where each character is their own unit. As for shatterpoint, I will probably get the starter but I agree with others that the prices will get out of hand for little value. I picked up MCP and played it once so if it is a clone it might not be for me. Family responsibilities tend to change how you value down time and its good that your priorities are in the right place. I use to game every night and weekends til early morning. Once I was blessed with kiddos I may game once a week for 2 hours. You just have to wait for them to get older and continue to brainwash them with gaming!!!!
Yea i will brainwash my little one to think a 60 minute game is fun, I just need her to be a bit older :P But i still think Legion is a great game, I just always wished it was proper skirmish and now that time has come (in a different way).
When you say, 'if you are a really good player of Star Wars Legion, you will beat almost anybody else who isn't also a good player of Star Wars Legion,' I think the issue with SWL seems to be that the definition of 'good player of Star Wars Legion' is 'knowing and building your team around the current, ever changing meta', rather than 'choosing a faction and play style you enjoy and playing it effectively.'
To me that's a very fair point, I am not skillfull or knowledgeable to make that claim but the game does feel very meta dependant and the best players obviously use the meta. I know that the best player can rock junk lists but why would they.
I'm looking into this game, and also One Page Rules stuff to use my 40K minis... Definitely need some lighter rule sets and quicker games.... this being Star Wars may appeal to some people who I'd like to get into minis games... i live in a kinda rural area so no gaming group close by...
Since I first became involved in Warhammer games (later, SW Miniatures and X-wing) I became extremely frustrated with the continual changing of rules - bloating of the rules. The rule checking and interpretation became 95% of a game rather than being focused on having FUN playing. We started just using the miniatures with VERY streamlined and simple rules and have done so since the late 90’s, playing skirmish type games before they became a relatively popular “thing”. Totally non-competitive but totally enjoyable. I’m looking forward to Shatterpoint, mainly for the miniatures but also to see how playable and enjoyable the game is for a “casual” player (please no card “Deckbuilding” - where it seems, the player with the funds to buy the most expensive card collection always wins).
I have been trying to warn people about these problems in Legion since its beginning. Constantly changing things turns players off rather than bringing people in. It kills games rather than builds them.
I currently both play Legion and MCP and the meta chages are both similar speed. But the cost for MCP is way more as they release alot of content and if you wanna play comp you need those cards.
@@MrJasondeth they haven’t had a release with “generic” cards in it for quite some time now. Everything just comes with their own affiliation specific cards, so you don’t have to buy everything if you don’t want to.
Or maybe you could learn a lesson that it's quite risky to buy a set of rules from someone that just wants to sell you minis. Or in the case of Fantasy Flight, just sell you miniatures and way too many bits of random cardboard.
I am not sure if you are a Legion fan or not? The big companies want to sell you mini's that's how they make the money, the smaller companies want to sell you rules, that's how they make their money. I am not sure what lesson can be learned beyond that.
I feel like your points are: Legion has done minor points that I really dislike and for the other game it hasn't done that.....YET. so you're basing it off of what Legion had been doing over time vs where the other game could go, but hasn't gone there yet. I'm sticking with Legion
Yeah I don't actually dislike legion and the new changes I think actually start solving a lot of my issues with the game. Shatterpoint could be bad, I know that. But I think I'm ready for a skirmish game and regret missing out on mcp
@Tabletop Oddity I loved the moment where my opponent said "your troops are now frightened and will run to their mom's.... HAHAHA" until I told him "Vader is in range, they're not going anywhere" and from that moment I feltthe true power of legion 😅😅. The battles are unforgettable when you're into it.
I think I'd get the core box and only the core box... Mainly because of the different set of characters. Im really enjoying Legion but Shatterpoint could be a fun break in between. I'm not a fan of the "you MUST buy this $50 expansion of 4 pre set models if you want more" like they did with MCP. I just want Jango Fett, but don't care much for Dooku or IG-100s. But I'm also on the fence about just getting MCP and skipping Shatterpoint since the core box is 1/2 the price. But it does come with a lot of Legion usable terrain
I still have to watch the video, I recently decided to start with Legion and all these videos pros and cons for Shatterpoint make me feel like I'm making a bad move
For me I stayed with Imperial Assault and didn’t jump into Legion (it does look great) but I hated the thought of repainting the same models again. To be honest there are so many third party printers that can scale minis to IA scale, if I want to play a skirmish game I can. Shatter Point looks great but I will pass on that one too. Time, money and other games/models to paint. All the best!
I get it with the painting part... I have to paint a looooot of Death Guards + like 10 titan knights, also my main army isn't even 90% tabletop ready and I started my first Age of Sigman starter box because I realy like the look of Seraphon ( Lizards riding dinosaurs ) I'm starting a Star Wars Legion: Separatist Invasion box because I want to see 8 Droidekas rolling arround the Table in the cover of tons and tons of B1-Droids 2 Big juicy armys beating each other, even if then camp and shoot at long range My Primaris Repulsor or Plagueburst Crawlers aint going meele on 40 Nids ... there are others for the job of getting they hands dirty
you can just get the rules for shatterpoint and use legion minis and play both surely. As for scenarios being samey in legion, make up your own ones, get creative.
This week SP was released in my LGS and it didnt really get a lot of attention. I wanted to love this game but I find it inferior to MCP, also from Atomic Mass Games. It has less features. I miss throwing scenery which is a common force power in the series. It's hard to remove troops which is not very cinematic (hey, Anakin stil hacking those 2 droids?). Random activation (though mitigated) reduces strategy. I find the combat trees clunky. Coming from MCP I feel it is so much better, specially with its comeback mechanic (power). Its getting a lot of attention because of the IP (Star Wars) but if it was any other stuff I dont think people would be playing this. The sculpts are superb though. I picked up a couple to paint but I dont think I will be playing the game at all. /shrug
Hold on. We haven't even seen a gameplay yet. Perhaps the game is not as good as it seems. Also, A platoon-based Wargame such as Legion embodies better the "Clone Wars" than a "Skirmish" miniature game.
If the game is bad I just simply won't play it or Legion. It embodies the clone wars sure, but Star Wars feels mostly character driven and small fights rather than mass battle overall.
@@TabletopOddity It depends. If we are talking about the Rebellion vs Empire conflict, yes. In fact, I always found weird the direct contact between Rebels and Empire in Legion. But if we are talking about the Clone Wars, which seems to be the era that Shatterpoint is aiming, so we can compare it with Legion Clone Wars, no. I mean, you just need to see the Clone Wars animation movies that arr heavily based on battles between thousands of clones and droids.
@@artharionsanchez1793 The clone wars tv show is generally not focused on big battles, like there's big battles happening but it's very character driven
@@TabletopOddity All movies and TV shows are focused on characters and are very character driven, that's how narrative works. It wouldn't work to watch a WWII movie where we just see randoms soldiers just fighting. Movies like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers are focused in showing the story of a character or a group of characters in the WWII, still, the conflict is the conflict not by the characters but by its nature and all the people involved in it. By your assumption, Bolt Action should not embody better the WWII conflict, but instead, it should be a Skirmish WWII game where you see Lt Winters against some German Officer. Or if we want to be more specific with the Star Wars universe, following your argument, games like Star Wars Armada should not embody better the conflict regarding Space Battles because Star Wars are focused on characters and not space battles. Clone Wars, like the name says, are wars, not isolated skirmishes, so for me it fits better to have a game that includes a lot of miniatures in a battlefield rather than a skirmish game. I think that a good Skirmish game for Star Wars should be focused in scum and villains in the outer rim. Seeing a skirmish between some bountyhunters, mercenaries, smugglers in Tatooine would catch the Star Wars feel when it comes to skirmishes. I understand that you're hyped about the new game, and I think that is the fact that it is a new brand game that is going to be fully suppoted by AMG one of the reasons why you have choose it over Legion which is a bit abandoned, and this has makes you convince yourself that Shatterpoint will embody better the Star Wars Clone War era, but I think this is just a subjective psychological justification that you have created to believe that you have made the right choice and that you will be focused on the "best game" of Star Wars ground combat.
@@artharionsanchez1793 heh I am not justifying anything because I don't even really like Star Wars, I don't care if Star Wars is all about wars or not. I have no idea if Shatterpoint will be a better game, I have no idea if I will actually enjoy it more, I just think I will enjoy a skirmish game more due to personal reasons. The universe of Star Wars has never been super relevant to me. I wasn't really making any assumptions about Star Wars, just saying that a skirmish game isn't exactly crazy, in a world with lightsaber duels and stuff, but then again neither are mass battles when there are wars. You might be reading a bit too much into it. I just want a game I play in a small space, in about 1 hour and is actually good and popular...I probably should have tried MCP.
Won’t necessarily quit Legion, but I can see more Shatterpoint games in my house once it gets released. Main reasons being size (3x3) is handy and if it’s like MCP it’s quick to set up and fun to play.
@@TabletopOddity with three years in the making, I hope so. I will pre-order when available. :) look forward to more content, you always are informative and offer great perspectives.
Beer & Pretzels gaming when you've a life/job/family that only takes 2ish hours and time for a swift half in the local definately the way to go. Have you considered moving away from the Tournie type games as thing is unless carefally handled they just end up in a power creep, its allabout the Meta blah blah. Get the figures but try and get a game you can just play thats not going to get power creeped/errated every other week. Sifi wise huge range of options, Wiley Games Galactic Heroes probably worth your looking into I'd say. Xenos Rampant coming out next few weeks, or some of the others mentioned below.
As a fan of the classic Star Wars movies and miniature war games I still think Legion is for me. The big problem is the cost, especially for the vehicles and new units. Do you think one day they'll be a Shatterpoint for Empire v Rebels?
@@TabletopOddity agreed. They might handle it like Legion, but in reverse. A heap of releases for the Clone Wars factions, then come out with a Galactic Civil War starter and start releasing add-ons for that.
Why? Legion is a wargame and SP is a faster skirmish game based in figurines instead infantry and control, a Marvel Protocol. I mean, great if you want to change, but your change will not be between 2 similar games.
Massively disappointed that they chose a new scale for shatter point. Ill gladly buy a new grievous or Anakin sculpt made for Shatterpoint and sub it into Legion. Massively missed opportunity. Wish they would just use the same scale and have a Legion card and a Shatterpoint card in the box. I'll buy 2 versions, idc I just want more releases for Legion and ppl are gonna just sub legion figures in to play Shatterpoint everyway so might as well embrace the double dip and fix the scale before release.
Not the same game at all. If taking after MCP, Shatterpoint will be a tactical game where Legion lies on strategy. Very different beasts, if you like one, you won't necessarily dig the other.
@@joshuakerp4187 yes. If I want enjoying my main game, I would cash out and play a different one. I meant though, what is the difference in tactical Vs stretegic?
you can't just be blown of the table, while you positioning matters, it's not a game of hiding behind the corner of a wall taking pot shots for most of it.
@@TabletopOddity I never played legion or what people would call a war game. I bought shatterpoint though and I am just a little scared that I won’t feel choice will matter much and I am buying a game with the smokescreen of Star Wars to hide lackluster gameplay. But I am willing to give it a go.
I look forward to seeing a deeper explanation of game mechanics. I love star wars but the mechanics of legion really turned me off. I've always though it would be cool to have a squad of wookies go up against some trandosians. Tearing the arms off those scaly bastards would be a hoot.
So I play most GW platforms plus gaslands and MCP, was just about to start legion until I heard about this and if this is MCP with a star wars skin then I'm all in MCP is a awesome game the buy in isn't ridiculous and the games are short and fun want to mix it up sure swap one character around games completely different love it so for that reason I'm waiting
I had the exact same reaction when I saw this announcement. I’ve been slowly moving away from legion for things like MCP and Lord of the Rings for a while now, and I think, if this truly does end up being “Star Wars MCP” then I think I will definitely give up legion for good. Every game of MCP I’ve ever played has always felt really competitive, and I feel like even though I’m not the best player, I still have a chance. But there have been times with Legion where the odds quickly become insurmountable, and you’re basically just playing out the game until you officially lose, which doesn’t feel great, especially if you’ve traveled a few hours to a tournament or something. That and I’ve had games where I’ve basically tabled people, but because R2 managed to sneak away and score, I still would lose, which also doesn’t feel great. And I do find it hard to keep up with all the individual rules for every faction. I definitely have been cheated on multiple occasions by people who are playing factions I don’t know as well, so I’m just trusting them to play theirs correctly (clone token sharing was a big one). I don’t know if I’ll sell off all my legion right away. CIS is my main faction now so I’ll probably keep that for a while, but I’m already trying to sell my empire army. I just can’t keep up with everything and it doesn’t make sense to stay invested emotionally and financially in a game that I honestly haven’t enjoyed all that much for a while now.
I cool with them making their own game but the 2 games are different from what I gather AMG game is crisis protocol which as for me I not feeling that for me I as ways wanted to play a 40k ish type of game and commanding army's legion was perfect not that expensive and simple to learn shatter point might be a great game but squad based star wars is good in my humble opinion it would be a loss if AMG abandon it.
The rules you use depends on the scenario. For running hoth and a lot of vs I use a ruleset called Fubar. I’m more for just rolling to hit and rolling a save. Keep it simple. As far as shatterpoint if I do get into it I’ll probably just use miniatures from wotc or ffg. Actually looked into their other games kind of passed. I do have the hero’s from clix I want to run an aliens invasion the justice league and avengers stop them
No… I’m sticking with Legion, as I feel that it’s still very active and I have a heavy investment in it. My biggest issues with AMG are how they’ve handled their current licensed games and how spread out they’re becoming. I feel that AMG is making huge production mistakes (card errata, missing cards and physical model issues). And they made this new Shatterpoint game a different scale from Legion. And from my experience with MCP, their minis will be $20-25 each. But I’m also not AMGs target audience now. I was FFG’s audience and I hope that Asmodee is paying close attention to this situation.
Nice, I truly hope you enjoy it
@Chosen One Not at launch at least but we don't know
@Chosen One We don't know
@Chosen One I have no idea now
@Chosen One really not bad at all
I mean, we don't have any info yet, but play what makes you happy...
for sure, if the game is crap, I just won't bother, but I trust AMG enough
I wish AMG would do a reprint of all the Legion cards that have changed. It annoys me having to keep up with all the changes to characters and Command cards. Would be an easy money maker for them.
And come up with more scenario/mission cards like you mention.
The card packs are their time to do it but it never feels enough
5th Trooper are doing errata cards for patreons
@@tomsyn which level patreon do you need to be?
@@richardl8892 if i remember correctly, anything above the $10 mark
How can you say you are completely “giving up” an established game for a new game that has only had a teaser video and essentially no info released?
Pretty simple, I was getting sick of legion already and if shatterpoint is bad, I won't play that either... I'm not calling the game good
Currently getting into Legion and it’s pretty confusing with the amount of keywords. Haven’t given up yet but also looking into indie rules for something more streamlined that would still give me the fun factor of playing with SW minis.
That said, I really don’t like the art style of Shatterpoint so I’m not going that way either!
Yeah the keywords are the paint point. And fair enough, Legion is a great game to be fair.
Same I feel your pain
Important to remember one can always use the figures for either game (or the old pre-paints) with any rules you want. Plenty of indie ones can work with the SW setting - Blasters & Bulkheads, Space Weirdos, Galactic Heroes, Pulp Alley, Stargrunt (and many more for for fighter or fleet space games).
You can but you will need cards and stuff
@@TabletopOddity All those are DiY rules, though many have franchises like SW already rated by other players. The only ones needing cards for gameplay either just need a regular deck of playing cards or you can print the cards out yourself (though fancier ones are available). I use B&B and GH, but Space Weirdos costs $5 and requires nothing else that can't be scrounged up.
One thing I don't think I've seen anyone else mention is this format of game likely makes it easier to bring characters from the sequel trilogy into the game. Those movies didn't have any 'big' land battles that would work at a Legion scale, but plenty of smaller scale conflicts that would be perfect for Shatterpoint.
True interesting though
I agree, it always seemed really hard to add sequel stuff to Legion so it'll be fun to see it pop up here if it does.
I understand what you are saying but fffff the sequels XD
@@BubblegumJpt that's okay, you can do something else while we're having fun.
There is no sequel trilogy... 😐
I love Legion and don’t experience the meta/gameplay problems you have but I have had trouble getting games in with family in the balance. My hope is Legion is around for the long haul. It’s incredibly balanced right now. If the rule set continues to evolve in the right direction then it should have staying power.
If Shatterpoint is totally casual play (which AMG seems to prefer) I think there will be a place for both. If it gets competitive I think the same issues you find in Legion will show up but be magnified b/c of the skirmish nature of the game. Skirmish Legion tends to suffer from this already (force users and heavies too strong; games tend to turn into elimination matches).
I am hoping it is casual, and it would fit in better in my mind if it is
I think Legion is incredibly balanced. It’s still my favourite game overall, and while I would like some narrative gameplay options, I think Legion has gone from strength to strength. It should be noted that I exclusively play casually. Each to their own though! I always felt Crisis Protocol was a little too random (and often leads to a big brawl around the objective)
I think legion is mostly balanced but with strong meta that tends to pop up that often ruins it
It sucks that Asmodee has put us in a position where some will have to choose to quit one or the other. If they just used the same scale you could still go 90% into shatter point and still play a game of Legion every now and then without having the expense of 2 full games.
I am assuming that with the IP they maybe couldn't do two games same models even if they wanted
@@TabletopOddity So you are assuming that the IP worries about Scale in the games? So if they would make minis of the same scale than Legion, there would be a problem with existing agreements? I do assume that this will be essentially a re-skin of MCP, with some new mechanics to differentiate the two IP's.
@@RandomDude-jq9mu No, I am assuming that there is difficulties with IP licensing because they would be the same game but not really. Like GW own Kill team and 40k, so no issues, but AMG are buying the IP, what if they lose the license for one of the games or something. I don't know, I just suspect it is complicated
@@TabletopOddity I doubt it’s complicated at all and it comes down to the almighty dollar. You could still keep it the same scale and release new sculpts making it a “new” product. People would use legion miniatures though and AMG would’t get as much money though.
@@chunkycornbread4773 oo for sure, they think this makes them the most money
Actually agree with many of your points. I’ve been trying to make Legion a squad based game on my own and this new announcement has me kind of excited. I do hope it will include different eras so I can ply some storm troopers and death troopers. We will see.
I think we will 100% see that
…but you already can in legion
Shatterpoint is’t as fun as legion in my opinion, AMG is trying their best to promote it but its boring compared to legion and even games like X wing or Armada which they canceled because they are trying to put more money into their new games like Shatterpoint and the Marvel game which makes me disappointed because Armada and X wing had more interesting gameplay than a game where it is hard for Anakin to kill a B1 battle Droid :(
I agree with pretty much all your points, but the meta thing is true of basically any game. There will be optimal lists for every game, that's why playing narrative focused games and casual is the best bet, versus going to a tournament where the goal is to win at all costs. Pretty much every game can be played with a narrative and setting home rules on specific unit choices can help to keep a game light and friendly, not either of you trying to ball stomp the other.
If you're interested in other sci-fi games, Infinity Codeone is a lighter version of Infinity N4 and both systems have all their rules constantly updated on their army builder app, so you don't have cards that are outdated.
I agree really and sadly more into fantasy than sci fi but I will try Shatterpoint
@@TabletopOddity
For fantasy, I'd recommend Relicblade, which is fairly light and plays quick on a 2x2 board. Outside of that, A Song of Blades and Heroes, as well as Pulp Alley are both great rule sets that offer a ton of flexibility in unit creation and they're both miniatures agnostic systems.
@@sackofpeas2470 Relicblade sounds dope!
I started playing Shatterpoint in October or November 2023. At first, it was a blast. But now that they are releasing more expansion squads, people I play with have started teaming up characters on the same squad that were deadly enemies in the movies and TV shows. Grievous and Obi Wan. Anakin and Dooku. They're doing it to make unbeatable teams that have strong combinations. The cinematic and thematic elements are what first attracted me to the game. It just wrecks the game for me and exposes the boredom that this game can sometimes bring out.
I totally respect the video and your insight, though I’m a little confused at some of your points. To say that your want a more beer and pretzels game that is smaller scale and quicker would be a totally acceptable reason to switch. Though to say that legion’s balance isn’t great but then say you’re not a competitive player? That seems contradictory. It’s also confusing to critique legion’s rules bloat and hard-to-find erratas when the same maker of legion and other games where that’s an issue is making this new game. Doesn’t part of you believe that the same issues will arise?
Love the content, and look forward to more in the future! I just worry that it’s ok to play both and consider they’re both very different experiences rather than throw one game in the trash all together.
My opinion is not overly informed these days, and I am not sure I made that point well enough. My views on competitive play comes from experienced comeptitive players who are some of the best in the business. also I think the game itself is perhaps very stregic and tactical in design, which makes it comeptitive. Like compare Legion to Warcry, I think the best Legion player beats the average Legin played like 9.9 times out of 10, but the best warcry player might beat an average Warcry player 7 out of 10. I don't know if I am making sense there.
I agree that Shatterpoint will go the same way because it's made by the same people. I enjoyed Legion more when it was perhaps more basic.
So you are very right, it is contridictory but hopefully in an understandable way.
'Balance' issues aren't limited to Competitive play. It's no fun to be casually playing with &/or against a Faction that is over or under powered.
No.
Fair enough, I hope everyone enjoys Legion :)
Thanks for your honesty! I understand your feelings. But what I dont understand is, how the Old World will fit into this? It will be (probably, as we GW know) an even bigger, even longer, even crunchier, even more expensive game then SWL.
the old world is pure nostalgia for me, there's a very good chance I will hate what GW do as well.
@@TabletopOddity Same here, but my wallet will help me to resist the temptation. 😀
So you want a simple game that's not to simple and a balanced game but with no updates and a casual game but don't want to lose at tournament
Easy right.
But no, I am actually okay with simple, and yes I want a balcned game with not a shed ton of updates, now that one I appreciate is difficult.
But also I do want a casual game but I am okay with losing at tournaments. It seems you are putting words in my mouth which I don't think I said.
I think the issues are more nuanced than they seem though. Some times it's how they are done. For example you can have a simple game that is easy to learn difficult to master, or vice versa.
And for losing at a tournament, I sort of want a casual competitive game, which means, if I play someone better than me, I want the other player to win maybe like 7 out of 10, as oppose to like 9 out of 10.
I am not expecting one game to cover everything I want, but Legion wasn't covering anything I wanted anymore.
Yeahhh...I relate very much honestly. More and moreso over the last six months.
As you say, you can run an army that isn't inherently bad, but anyone who runs a competitive list (as all but one person I've faced does), will have a decisive upper hand.
At the end of the day, I'm a casual player, but while Legion isn't 40k in it's competitiveness, it still very much owes itself to the competitive side of things.
After having more recently started collecting Marvel Crisis Protocol, I've been having a blast. Every game I've played, from my first ever game to my most recent, I've felt like I stood a chance, and that's even when I play a weaker faction (Spider-Foes) into more "competitive" ones. I have won various times now, unlike Legion where I've been obliterated time and time again over the last two years.
I'm more of a casual player, who enjoys a little competitiveness on the side, so this will be a much better fit for me too
Yeah I think legion is just not a gray casual game in my opinion and I'm more and more casual these days
I’ve invested to much in Legion and I still enjoy it.
It's a good game!
Honestly at this point I dont believe Star Wars legion will get any support for the clone wars. Cival War era has such an insane amount of units already I just dont trust them anymore. And this is not an AMG problem, FFG also didnt really put in the effort. The fact that magnaguards came soo extreemly late is proof enough for me.
Ill keep playing legion, but my main focus will shift for sure.
Yeah, I mean Legion will be supported but things will be spread out for sure
Just started watching. If "rules bloat" is an issue for you with Legion, I suggest looking into a fan-made modification of other small battle rules, like Star Wars: Chain of Command, which is the Chain of Command WW2 ruleset using the Legion figures.
I think I will just move on, but thanks :)
Look into onepagerules also. It’s inspired by 40K but you can play the game with any minis you own.
⭐️ am sticking with Legion - end of…..buying the same models again but in an incompatible scale is a huge no ⭐️
yeah that is a bit of a big issue
I havent played Star Wars Shatterpoint or Marvel: Crisis Protocol (so I cant say), but I do play both Wh40k and SW Legion and i find it (from your comments) that maybe you simply find it more fun, to play a smaller amount model tabletopgame maybe. Then Star Wars Shatterpoint should be just fine! And few models you have, actually look nicer.
Yeah I am not calling Legion bad!
I'm much more likely to drop MCP for Shatterpoint. Legion and Shatterpoint scratch very different itches for me. It's the same reason I play both X-Wing and Armada.
I was thinking, you are probably right, in the long run MCP will likely run it's course.
I would rather you did both mate, you are my go to Legion fix and Shatterpoint would be a nice addition.
I might still cover news, maybe, I am not fully ruling it out, but shatterpoint has my interest very strongly
Exactly the same reasons I will be dropping legion. Legion was my "for fun" game and when I went to tournaments people were pulling bizarre card combos that made troops basically unkillable if you didn't hace another ubercombo. Same with the time and the size of the board. Too difficult to find the time and place for it.
Legion is a great competitive game....a bit poor as a for fun game
I stick with Legion for sure. They both looks like completely different games.
I'll wait for more information about Shatterpoint before jumping into hype-train
I'm on the hype train but if it crashes, I will get over it!
My love of the Star Wars vehicles means Legion will always have a place, but Shatterpoint will be the new go to for a quick game along with MCP
Makes sense, lets hope it's good
Oooooo this may be the one that brings me back to tabletop gaming! I bought legion on launch, haven’t played it for over a year now at least. Skirmish is also much more my kinda thing when it comes to painting as you say, painting 20 stormtroopers nearly killed me from tedious boredom haha
Yeah indeed, I like some big games though, but I don't know, this one feels right to me.
So play the 500 point skirmish mode in Legion…
@@mikep3494 difficult to get my 12 year old interested in that, too much choice for her way of thinking I’m afraid, will be a lot easier when the choices are cut back in this game, well, I imagine it will be easier for her
@@mikep3494 It's not really all the popular to be fair is it?
@@mikep3494 Quite frankly, it's laso not that good!
4 models for 50$ that makes GW prices look good
And that's the sticking point, we can argue that they will only sell one, and there's no need for multiple, we can argue that it's half an army but 4 models fo $50 just seems high
Personally, I’m obsessed with table top. 6 40K armies and 2 legion armies. And I tried kill team and will probably try shatterpoint, but I prefer large army v army games. Some of my favourite games were 5000 points+ but granted buddy and I needed narrative behind it and custom actions/objectives. You make some points, but some people who understand balance better than me, created missions for me and buddy and had a blast. But that’s my thing.
I've had the exact same experience as you. I love Star Wars, I like miniatures games, I've really come to like Crisis Protocol and that's why I'll be focusing on MCP and Shatterpoint. I too found that I liked the IDEA of Leion more than I actually liked playing it. It's a great game, but not a great game for me.
Yeah I think I just want more chaos. I've lost legion games due to dice and one specific moment and while that feels bad, I think it feels worse because there's not much randomness in the game so the few moments stand out.... Not explaining myself well. But yes legion is good but SharePoint suits me and my life
dude, is this clickbait or just ignorance? "I'm leaving a popular game for one I know LITERALLY NOTHING about...." seriously? Are we supposed to take you seriously now? If you said "I'm quitting Legion" and listed the reasons, those are rational. "I'm leaving a game for something nobody knows anything about" isn't rational. It's clickbait at best. Ignorant blathering at worst. Please think through your content a bit before you throw out stuff like this. "This game will probably be" is truly the most common phrase in this video. Let's all just pause and consider how ill-conceived that is. You may as well have said "I'm leaving Legion for a game I hope someone builds and releases in 2025. I'm imagining a miniatures game. I'll bet it's awesome, and it comes out in 2025. In my mind, it's a great game and fixes everything I don't like about Legion" bleh. Have to unsub after this.
I have no idea if shatterpoint will be good, but if it isn't, I don't mind, I just won't play it. I know it's going to be a skirmish game that very likely plays quickly, if they make it badly then they make it badly and I won't play. If it isn't what I want, that is also okay.
I am not sure I understand your issue? I tried to make it semi clear that I was pretty much done with Legion anyway, this is just the final death blow to me.
We play Legion as beer and pretzels game...just choose the units we like and the info on the cards they come with...Great craic!
Never tried to keep up with the latest updates, don't care about imbalance...when was war a balance of armies going up against each other...
I won't be getting shatterpoint.
Cheers!
It's good game for sure
That’s what I do too. To hell with the updates, whatever it says in my rulebook and on my cards is what we play 🤫
Luckily my friends and i build more thematic and fun lists than competitive and meta lists so our battles feel more like a clone wars episode. It makes every mission more nail biting and engaging since we’re using units and upgrades that maybe aren’t the most optimal but it challenges you to make do with what you got
It's always good to go to other games. I took a break from Warhammer AoS to invest more in Legion, and while I still enjoy Legion much more than AoS, the time I spent away from it in Legion helped me realize what I really liked about AoS by what I found myself missing.
Yes, I tend to think like 2 games is the right amount, and always be checking if something suits you better
Oddly enough, I might choose to play both. For Legion, I went with Galactic Civil War (Empire vs. Rebels), but the Shatterpoint starter box would scratch that Clone Wars itch…
That's not bad thought
Yes I know this was for ever ago. My comment, why would you need to abandon one game to play another? Do you not have the mental flexibility to play two separate games? Because in my house, not counting chess and draughts, we have about 12 or more miniature games we play from historic to sci-fi and so on.
Resume: he leaves Legion cuz hasnt enough memory for rules xD. Long live Legion
Yeah I am looking for a more casual game, no harm in that. Legion is also a little elitist :P
I’m going to be playing both games on the regular. For anyone panicking on legion dying that won’t happen for a while. If anything x-wing and armada are gonna die off first. I’m happy this game is coming out as I love the mcp system. It’ll be fun to play this then hop into an 800 point legion game right after.
If they did kill Legion it will be slow and not that painful
I used to play a bunch of Warhammer 40k back in high school and hadn't really played any miniature games since then.
Now looking to get back into it, but I'm older and my tastes have changed. Legion looks like it's too much for me. Whereas with Shatterpoint, I feel like I can better afford to get into it AND also another (smaller scale) miniature wargame, such as Fallout: Wasteland Warfare, which I'm super excited about. But either way, really looking forward to getting back into the hobby, and I'm hyped to see miniature games that both include IPs that I love, as well as feature smaller scale battles that better suit where I'm at these days.
I think Shatterpoint will be cheapish to play (the starter box gives you 2 full "armies" which you can then mix around in loads of combinations) but way more expensive to collect everything. But yeah quicker games, smaller number of minis....good
I'll be playing both. I don't see why you couldn't play both.
I could, I just don't want to play Legion! I think it's a good game but I don't think it's the right one for me anymore.
I respect that. Opinions are opinions, sadly too many people take them as a personal attack.
Yeah I am not even calling Legion bad, it's mainly just not for me in the way I percieve it.
Have to do what is right for you. I have collected everything with Legion and love playing it. I don't keep up with the meta and rule changes so I just play as is. Some days we play epic battles that are multi hour and other days we take 10-15 guys and play a skirmish style battle where each character is their own unit. As for shatterpoint, I will probably get the starter but I agree with others that the prices will get out of hand for little value. I picked up MCP and played it once so if it is a clone it might not be for me. Family responsibilities tend to change how you value down time and its good that your priorities are in the right place. I use to game every night and weekends til early morning. Once I was blessed with kiddos I may game once a week for 2 hours. You just have to wait for them to get older and continue to brainwash them with gaming!!!!
Yea i will brainwash my little one to think a 60 minute game is fun, I just need her to be a bit older :P
But i still think Legion is a great game, I just always wished it was proper skirmish and now that time has come (in a different way).
When you say, 'if you are a really good player of Star Wars Legion, you will beat almost anybody else who isn't also a good player of Star Wars Legion,' I think the issue with SWL seems to be that the definition of 'good player of Star Wars Legion' is 'knowing and building your team around the current, ever changing meta', rather than 'choosing a faction and play style you enjoy and playing it effectively.'
To me that's a very fair point, I am not skillfull or knowledgeable to make that claim but the game does feel very meta dependant and the best players obviously use the meta. I know that the best player can rock junk lists but why would they.
imperial assault and shatterpoint are the best. i wish theyd make more imperial assault expansions
I'm looking into this game, and also One Page Rules stuff to use my 40K minis...
Definitely need some lighter rule sets and quicker games.... this being Star Wars may appeal to some people who I'd like to get into minis games... i live in a kinda rural area so no gaming group close by...
Seems like shatter point is a 4 rule game... not for me
I have no idea what you mean by that but if it's not for you that's all good
Are the rules actually published?
I tried to look for a battle report of this game without any luck.
No, we aren't getting demo of the games till adepticon (or any earlier article)
You need to go Orcs and Goblins in old world for the random fun aspect.
Heh that's very possible!
Love legion. Might like shatterpoint.
Fair enough :)
why not play both? I will continue playing legion, blood bowl marvel crisis protocol and this. Probably other stuff to, I do love a bit of heroquest
I'm going to be playing Warhammer The Old World and I don't think I have time, otherwise I would!
@@TabletopOddity Yes another game im looking forward too! It seems I have far to much time on my hands :D
but to be fair I still have my old Warhammer pre aos armies, so I have an head start
@@gazmatraz5248 heh I made a new channel for it called Always Strikes Back
@@gazmatraz5248 nice
Can't you play a small skirmish on legion tho?
You can, but it felt shoe horned in and unloved, the new special ops though, that looks good.
Since I first became involved in Warhammer games (later, SW Miniatures and X-wing) I became extremely frustrated with the continual changing of rules - bloating of the rules. The rule checking and interpretation became 95% of a game rather than being focused on having FUN playing. We started just using the miniatures with VERY streamlined and simple rules and have done so since the late 90’s, playing skirmish type games before they became a relatively popular “thing”. Totally non-competitive but totally enjoyable. I’m looking forward to Shatterpoint, mainly for the miniatures but also to see how playable and enjoyable the game is for a “casual” player (please no card “Deckbuilding” - where it seems, the player with the funds to buy the most expensive card collection always wins).
I think maybe Horus Heresy and The Old World might be the antidote for that concern.
I have been trying to warn people about these problems in Legion since its beginning. Constantly changing things turns players off rather than bringing people in. It kills games rather than builds them.
I'm glad I started Legion when it first came out. To pick it up now from scratch I'd find the expansive rules hard to take in. :)
It's a really good game for those who like it. It sort of reminds me of warmachine, like thos eplayers would probably really like it.
I currently both play Legion and MCP and the meta chages are both similar speed. But the cost for MCP is way more as they release alot of content and if you wanna play comp you need those cards.
@@MrJasondeth they haven’t had a release with “generic” cards in it for quite some time now. Everything just comes with their own affiliation specific cards, so you don’t have to buy everything if you don’t want to.
Or maybe you could learn a lesson that it's quite risky to buy a set of rules from someone that just wants to sell you minis. Or in the case of Fantasy Flight, just sell you miniatures and way too many bits of random cardboard.
I am not sure if you are a Legion fan or not? The big companies want to sell you mini's that's how they make the money, the smaller companies want to sell you rules, that's how they make their money. I am not sure what lesson can be learned beyond that.
I feel like your points are:
Legion has done minor points that I really dislike and for the other game it hasn't done that.....YET.
so you're basing it off of what Legion had been doing over time vs where the other game could go, but hasn't gone there yet.
I'm sticking with Legion
Yeah I don't actually dislike legion and the new changes I think actually start solving a lot of my issues with the game. Shatterpoint could be bad, I know that. But I think I'm ready for a skirmish game and regret missing out on mcp
@Tabletop Oddity yeah that makes sense.
@@randifelix I hope all legion players are happy with the game :)
@Tabletop Oddity I loved the moment where my opponent said "your troops are now frightened and will run to their mom's.... HAHAHA" until I told him "Vader is in range, they're not going anywhere" and from that moment I feltthe true power of legion 😅😅. The battles are unforgettable when you're into it.
@@randifelix heh yeah that kind of stuff is super fun :)
I think I'd get the core box and only the core box... Mainly because of the different set of characters. Im really enjoying Legion but Shatterpoint could be a fun break in between. I'm not a fan of the "you MUST buy this $50 expansion of 4 pre set models if you want more" like they did with MCP. I just want Jango Fett, but don't care much for Dooku or IG-100s.
But I'm also on the fence about just getting MCP and skipping Shatterpoint since the core box is 1/2 the price. But it does come with a lot of Legion usable terrain
Tricky position, Shatterpoint I think makes most sense but maybe not
I still have to watch the video, I recently decided to start with Legion and all these videos pros and cons for Shatterpoint make me feel like I'm making a bad move
Nah, if you are interested in Legion, give it a go, it's great for some people!
For me I stayed with Imperial Assault and didn’t jump into Legion (it does look great) but I hated the thought of repainting the same models again. To be honest there are so many third party printers that can scale minis to IA scale, if I want to play a skirmish game I can. Shatter Point looks great but I will pass on that one too. Time, money and other games/models to paint.
All the best!
No harm in that. Thanks
I get it with the painting part...
I have to paint a looooot of Death Guards + like 10 titan knights, also my main army isn't even 90% tabletop ready and I started my first Age of Sigman starter box because I realy like the look of Seraphon ( Lizards riding dinosaurs )
I'm starting a Star Wars Legion: Separatist Invasion box because I want to see 8 Droidekas rolling arround the Table in the cover of tons and tons of B1-Droids
2 Big juicy armys beating each other, even if then camp and shoot at long range
My Primaris Repulsor or Plagueburst Crawlers aint going meele on 40 Nids ... there are others for the job of getting they hands dirty
I am a terrible painter and hobbiest
you can just get the rules for shatterpoint and use legion minis and play both surely. As for scenarios being samey in legion, make up your own ones, get creative.
I think some people might do that
Shatterpoint gave me Clone Commandos, that's enough to win me over.
Nice
This week SP was released in my LGS and it didnt really get a lot of attention. I wanted to love this game but I find it inferior to MCP, also from Atomic Mass Games. It has less features. I miss throwing scenery which is a common force power in the series. It's hard to remove troops which is not very cinematic (hey, Anakin stil hacking those 2 droids?). Random activation (though mitigated) reduces strategy. I find the combat trees clunky. Coming from MCP I feel it is so much better, specially with its comeback mechanic (power). Its getting a lot of attention because of the IP (Star Wars) but if it was any other stuff I dont think people would be playing this. The sculpts are superb though. I picked up a couple to paint but I dont think I will be playing the game at all. /shrug
No, it's not for me. I also don't like the cartoon look.
Shame but hope you have fun with Legion
@@TabletopOddity Well, everything can't be for everyone😊 I like bigger scale and longer games myself. 😁
Star wars legion price point too me seems crazy which is why I have always stuck to wasteland warfare but I can't wait to pick up shatterpoint
Shatterpoint will be expensive per model I bet you
I think you should wait for the game to come out before quitting legion
Nah, I wasn't enjoying Legion that much anyway, so if shatterpoint is bad, I will just move on.
my friends and I decided that we would only make cards and between us I would play with figures from Legion
I really enjoyed your battle reports as well going to miss them!
Apologies
Hold on. We haven't even seen a gameplay yet. Perhaps the game is not as good as it seems. Also, A platoon-based Wargame such as Legion embodies better the "Clone Wars" than a "Skirmish" miniature game.
If the game is bad I just simply won't play it or Legion. It embodies the clone wars sure, but Star Wars feels mostly character driven and small fights rather than mass battle overall.
@@TabletopOddity It depends. If we are talking about the Rebellion vs Empire conflict, yes. In fact, I always found weird the direct contact between Rebels and Empire in Legion. But if we are talking about the Clone Wars, which seems to be the era that Shatterpoint is aiming, so we can compare it with Legion Clone Wars, no. I mean, you just need to see the Clone Wars animation movies that arr heavily based on battles between thousands of clones and droids.
@@artharionsanchez1793 The clone wars tv show is generally not focused on big battles, like there's big battles happening but it's very character driven
@@TabletopOddity All movies and TV shows are focused on characters and are very character driven, that's how narrative works. It wouldn't work to watch a WWII movie where we just see randoms soldiers just fighting. Movies like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers are focused in showing the story of a character or a group of characters in the WWII, still, the conflict is the conflict not by the characters but by its nature and all the people involved in it. By your assumption, Bolt Action should not embody better the WWII conflict, but instead, it should be a Skirmish WWII game where you see Lt Winters against some German Officer. Or if we want to be more specific with the Star Wars universe, following your argument, games like Star Wars Armada should not embody better the conflict regarding Space Battles because Star Wars are focused on characters and not space battles.
Clone Wars, like the name says, are wars, not isolated skirmishes, so for me it fits better to have a game that includes a lot of miniatures in a battlefield rather than a skirmish game. I think that a good Skirmish game for Star Wars should be focused in scum and villains in the outer rim. Seeing a skirmish between some bountyhunters, mercenaries, smugglers in Tatooine would catch the Star Wars feel when it comes to skirmishes.
I understand that you're hyped about the new game, and I think that is the fact that it is a new brand game that is going to be fully suppoted by AMG one of the reasons why you have choose it over Legion which is a bit abandoned, and this has makes you convince yourself that Shatterpoint will embody better the Star Wars Clone War era, but I think this is just a subjective psychological justification that you have created to believe that you have made the right choice and that you will be focused on the "best game" of Star Wars ground combat.
@@artharionsanchez1793 heh I am not justifying anything because I don't even really like Star Wars, I don't care if Star Wars is all about wars or not.
I have no idea if Shatterpoint will be a better game, I have no idea if I will actually enjoy it more, I just think I will enjoy a skirmish game more due to personal reasons. The universe of Star Wars has never been super relevant to me.
I wasn't really making any assumptions about Star Wars, just saying that a skirmish game isn't exactly crazy, in a world with lightsaber duels and stuff, but then again neither are mass battles when there are wars.
You might be reading a bit too much into it. I just want a game I play in a small space, in about 1 hour and is actually good and popular...I probably should have tried MCP.
Hey try out the new legion squad based format. It might be right up your alley
Yeah I've got a video about it
Try the ASOIAF game. It’s been my go to game since June. I love Legion but til my issues are addressed that will be my game
I am waiting for warhammer for my fantasy fix!
Won’t necessarily quit Legion, but I can see more Shatterpoint games in my house once it gets released. Main reasons being size (3x3) is handy and if it’s like MCP it’s quick to set up and fun to play.
Indeed, just a lot less hassle to get games in.
Little to early to switch for me... will try it.
I will happily give this a bash, hope it's good :)
@@TabletopOddity with three years in the making, I hope so. I will pre-order when available. :) look forward to more content, you always are informative and offer great perspectives.
I plan on playing both, I'm so stoked for Shatterpoint
For me I think I will do WFB / TOW and Shatterpoint, but I get why people play Legion ist is great
Beer & Pretzels gaming when you've a life/job/family that only takes 2ish hours and time for a swift half in the local definately the way to go. Have you considered moving away from the Tournie type games as thing is unless carefally handled they just end up in a power creep, its allabout the Meta blah blah. Get the figures but try and get a game you can just play thats not going to get power creeped/errated every other week. Sifi wise huge range of options, Wiley Games Galactic Heroes probably worth your looking into I'd say. Xenos Rampant coming out next few weeks, or some of the others mentioned below.
I wouldn't play in tourny's if I had a regular play group, I just don't have that.
@@TabletopOddity It can be a challenge depending on circumstances to get games. So hope you find some fun, and now got a Star Wars playmate.
Bet you regret that dumb decision. Legion is still in the top 5 most popular and SP did really well on release and has since lost speed.
As a fan of the classic Star Wars movies and miniature war games I still think Legion is for me. The big problem is the cost, especially for the vehicles and new units. Do you think one day they'll be a Shatterpoint for Empire v Rebels?
100% yes, it would be insane not to.
@@TabletopOddity agreed. They might handle it like Legion, but in reverse. A heap of releases for the Clone Wars factions, then come out with a Galactic Civil War starter and start releasing add-ons for that.
Why? Legion is a wargame and SP is a faster skirmish game based in figurines instead infantry and control, a Marvel Protocol. I mean, great if you want to change, but your change will not be between 2 similar games.
I know, I am happy with that, I was just sort of done with Legion anyway I think
So will we just play the new game with the Legion minis and terrain we already have built and painted? 😇
heh I am home brewing now!
@@TabletopOddity I mean even in Marvel Crisis protocol there3d printing there own models for hero's who aren't out yet!
Massively disappointed that they chose a new scale for shatter point. Ill gladly buy a new grievous or Anakin sculpt made for Shatterpoint and sub it into Legion. Massively missed opportunity. Wish they would just use the same scale and have a Legion card and a Shatterpoint card in the box. I'll buy 2 versions, idc I just want more releases for Legion and ppl are gonna just sub legion figures in to play Shatterpoint everyway so might as well embrace the double dip and fix the scale before release.
I think it's mainly different design philosophy, like realistic be stylised, and once they decided to switch it up, they might as well do MCP scale
Sad to see you go but play the game you like.
I will follow Legion, I might still do the odd event but only till the old world I think
Not the same game at all. If taking after MCP, Shatterpoint will be a tactical game where Legion lies on strategy. Very different beasts, if you like one, you won't necessarily dig the other.
Can you explain what you think the difference is between the two? In basic terms. I like the sound of this I just don't understand it fully
@@TabletopOddity Would you stop playing AOS for Warhammer Underworld? The comparison is probably a bit forced, but you get the idea.
@@joshuakerp4187 yes. If I want enjoying my main game, I would cash out and play a different one.
I meant though, what is the difference in tactical Vs stretegic?
Bruh it's not even out yet
ooo yeah, it could be hot garbage, if so, I won't play it
So isn’t shatterpoint the same, go here and hold?
you can't just be blown of the table, while you positioning matters, it's not a game of hiding behind the corner of a wall taking pot shots for most of it.
@@TabletopOddity I never played legion or what people would call a war game. I bought shatterpoint though and I am just a little scared that I won’t feel choice will matter much and I am buying a game with the smokescreen of Star Wars to hide lackluster gameplay. But I am willing to give it a go.
Well guess I'm excited to see how Shatterpoint is played.
For sure, lets wait and see
I look forward to seeing a deeper explanation of game mechanics. I love star wars but the mechanics of legion really turned me off. I've always though it would be cool to have a squad of wookies go up against some trandosians. Tearing the arms off those scaly bastards would be a hoot.
Legion is strategic and great in many ways but it just out grew me
Shatterpoint can't replace legion, and legion is just a better game, so... LEGION FOREVER
Well. It could replace it if AMG chose, and we have no idea which is the better game for now. Legion is right now as you can play it :P
@@TabletopOddity that is true, but I've spent quite a lot of money on legion, and if it's done, well that isn't exactly my most favorite thought
@@pizza1866 Enjoy Legion and do'nt stress
So I play most GW platforms plus gaslands and MCP, was just about to start legion until I heard about this and if this is MCP with a star wars skin then I'm all in MCP is a awesome game the buy in isn't ridiculous and the games are short and fun want to mix it up sure swap one character around games completely different love it so for that reason I'm waiting
It is looking like star wars MCP with some interesting tweaks
The rules and keywords definitely change too much in Legion 😅
lol you would know that much better than I do! Are we getting a Shatterpoint Visual Guide series?
No. Damned incompetence with all titles. Xwing 2.0 needs epic ships. Armada dumped. Legion missing cards. IA dumped. Damn cheap shot money grab.
Yeah AMG have a few issues they need to sort
I had the exact same reaction when I saw this announcement. I’ve been slowly moving away from legion for things like MCP and Lord of the Rings for a while now, and I think, if this truly does end up being “Star Wars MCP” then I think I will definitely give up legion for good.
Every game of MCP I’ve ever played has always felt really competitive, and I feel like even though I’m not the best player, I still have a chance. But there have been times with Legion where the odds quickly become insurmountable, and you’re basically just playing out the game until you officially lose, which doesn’t feel great, especially if you’ve traveled a few hours to a tournament or something. That and I’ve had games where I’ve basically tabled people, but because R2 managed to sneak away and score, I still would lose, which also doesn’t feel great.
And I do find it hard to keep up with all the individual rules for every faction. I definitely have been cheated on multiple occasions by people who are playing factions I don’t know as well, so I’m just trusting them to play theirs correctly (clone token sharing was a big one).
I don’t know if I’ll sell off all my legion right away. CIS is my main faction now so I’ll probably keep that for a while, but I’m already trying to sell my empire army. I just can’t keep up with everything and it doesn’t make sense to stay invested emotionally and financially in a game that I honestly haven’t enjoyed all that much for a while now.
i think legion can be the competitive game and Shatterpoint can just be cahos and fun. I'd be happy with that.
Do you regret that decision? For me, Shatterpoint was a meh.
Why 1wo different games
This is a good question, simply they want to make their own I think as AMG not from FFG that is quicker
I cool with them making their own game but the 2 games are different from what I gather AMG game is crisis protocol which as for me I not feeling that for me I as ways wanted to play a 40k ish type of game and commanding army's legion was perfect not that expensive and simple to learn shatter point might be a great game but squad based star wars is good in my humble opinion it would be a loss if AMG abandon it.
@@joehendrson3815 They won't abandon Legion
Shatterpoint looks like a childish version, cartoon version characters, horrible. Your loss.
Not my loss, I like the look. If the game is bad it's bad.
Not interested in shatter point, no ill will just not interested.
that's fair enough :)
Kind of funny that you say that you do not like, strategy, painting and a bit more complicated rules and still have channel about games 😀
Heh I like strategy but I like a different kind from what Legion offers, I also like simplified rules that aren't hard work....all true
I'm gonna evaluate how it plays first, but it will probably be a Legion killer for me too.
it makes sense, I just trust AMG and I will cover it in the next few months.
The rules you use depends on the scenario. For running hoth and a lot of vs I use a ruleset called Fubar. I’m more for just rolling to hit and rolling a save. Keep it simple. As far as shatterpoint if I do get into it I’ll probably just use miniatures from wotc or ffg.
Actually looked into their other games kind of passed. I do have the hero’s from clix I want to run an aliens invasion the justice league and avengers stop them
Nice, i would love some of the old minis myself