Loved the beer analogy! The last few days I've been loading up on Shatterpoint videos as a means to get back in to it. I bought the core set on day 1, painted EVERYTHING (unusual) in under two weeks (WHAT), then had one demo, and never touched it again. I WANT to love this system as it is pretty much the only non-GW game played locally.
Hey thanks! I love the game, been trying to get more people into it. So many fun units out now - I think it's a great time to get back into it. Actually working on a video now about getting into the game in late 2024!
That's a fair assessment! I will say, it was pretty disheartening seeing all my painstakingly painted clones disappear from the battlefield in legion 😂
Not to be a negative Nancy, but I struggled to watch after about 3:20. Even though I was (and am) very interested in different perspectives, if you're going to get fundamental elements wrong, it makes it hard to have faith that any opinions expressed are based on the actual game. The original mission pack does *not* only have three objectives active at a time. In the first Struggle, that's just not true. Plus, you say Vader is slow. He's not. He can Advance without using an Activation, *and* Advance with one. Lastly, Vader is not too strong. He's, he's very good at killing, but the game is really not about killing. (That comment about using Vader and Maul to table opponents is also just wrong.) I know that all sounds harsh, but you can probably see that if your opinion is formed with two (and more later) elements objectively incorrect and a third being just an opinion, and not one shared by all, it's hard to get much out of the video. But ok, I get kept going. Then you say the second Mission Pack is basically the same. It's not. The objective placement distances very much change which characters do better compared to the original pack. Really, play enough games and it becomes clear. AMG even said that the initial several waves of characters were balanced to be better or worse across all three Missions, making roster building important - and it is. You don't even touch on rosters other than the incorrect statement that it's a heroes vs. villains game, which it isn't. I know it won't matter to you, as you said yourself you have to pretend to care about what other people think. Still, I thought other readers here might want to understand that what you are saying is inaccurate and incomplete. Spiteful? Maybe, but you said to send in the spiteful comments! ;)
Lol I actually appreciate this, thanks for commenting and if it was spiteful, it doesn't come across that way so all good. I didn't get the noti so I'm 11 days late but here we are! In the spirit of keeping the video shorter, I did make some generalizations of the game. However, I don't think they're blatantly incorrect as you're saying. 1) Largely, most of the game is fighting over a few active objectives (in the shifting priorities mission pack). Sure, the first struggle is different, but the second (and, when played) the third struggle follow the same format. 2) I'll stick by Vader is slow. He has the advances, but no ability to jump. In a terrain-dense map, that severely limits his movement, and in my experience, resorted to him throwing his lightsaber instead of properly engaging since he's too slow or stubborn to climb. Take this one as you will. 3) Vader and Maul both have abilities, that when combined, allow players to roll and obscene amount of attack dice. They both also do a ton of damage. I say in the video itself that the game isn't about killing, so we agree there. Sure there might be better ways to kill your opponent, but in my experience going against someone running Maul and Vader meant that they were objective-blind and blood-starved lol. 4) Mission pack same. It is, I'm sorry. The distances change, sure, but as a casual player - it felt the same. Sorry 🤷. Also not sure when I said it was a heroes vs villains game (except if you're going for thematics or preference) but you're right. I didn't cover strike team building or rosters in this video since, well, it wasn't my intention to! I did that over a year ago in another video lol. Thanks for the comment! I get that it was negative but sometimes this type of feedback than "V I D E O G U D"
I think this type of video brings some value in that it is not always apparent what those outside the ecosystem, looking in, think and feel about the game. Those within the system tend to look more favourably upon the game, and are willing to ignore, or brush aside, flaws with it (and let us be honest, Shatterpoint has flaws). It is, mostly, a good game, with a solid (almost airtight) rules system, but it struggles to attract new players outside those interested in a Star Wars licensed game. The randomess, the same-y feeling missions (they have said new missions without a priority token are coming), and the fact that a single poor activation can really derail the game make it all very unfriendly to new players, or even casual players. In the end, while I do think some of your criticisms/observations were a bit surface level, they are scratching a deeper concern that could impact the games ability to grow and expand.
Hey thanks 🙂 I appreciate the comment and I think you're spot on! I'm by no means claiming to be an expert, just a casual enjoyer who wants the game and community to thrive! Thanks for the feedback! Gonna be diving back into the game real soon 🎉
While I understand your viewpoint, as someone who has not played in a while, I disagree that the game isn’t full of strategy. A lot of the synergies and problems that the Vader meta had are not really the same and there are many ways to counter lists. They have also already announced new game modes: key operations are alternate missions that will eventually lead to a sudo-campaign once the next one releases (2 have been released for free on AMG’s website) and Galactic Legends seems to be similar to Ultimate Encounters like MCP (but this is in alpha with Asajj currently available to test).
Hey I really appreciate the feedback! I had figured that someone built a ranged list to counter Vader's melee, so interested to read more into that! And I heard about the Ultimate encounters style thing in testing - hope it goes well! I'll check it out for myself next chance I get. I remember legion had a strike team alpha out a year or two back that I tried out, but not sure if that has gone anywhere. Legion isn't my fav, tho I have considered getting back into that too. Thanks for the comment ❤ really appreciate your view
@@scodysk no problem. Look into the Iden lists if you are looking for a gun line squad. However Kanan rebels is currently the best way to handle kill squads with revenge triggers. Also key operations are fun and I suggest trying those. I think this will be the way to play for "something different" in non competitive play. Each mission has different goals (i.e. save the prisoner or steal a shuttle). Like I said they have also mentioned they will have the first 3 key operations connected in some way but we don't know how that is going to look currently.
Haha I like both, I go through phases. Really it's I get over zealous with buying minis, have a huge backlog to paint, get burnt out and would rather play. Wait a few months. Cycle starts over lol
Amg loves making objective based rulesets and at the same time they are absolutely unable of creating captivating objectives. Althroughout ffg games they were made to „curate” they dumbed down/randomized too much which resulted in less real variance and in a far less captivating experience. Oh, and about your Legion comment, it being formulaic, I implore you to play it more, because even after amg changes its the most responsive and immediate battle system I played, at least in its bigger scale (although its still a step between skirmish and a big battler like wh40, which I agree is bloated to the max).
I'll have to revisit legion! It's been a while since I played, and I really enjoyed the system! Just no one around to play with me tbh lol, and too big of a game to bring extra and teach someone on the fly. So for your objective based comment, what would make the objectives more captivating? Have you played a game that manages engaging objectives?
For me, we need more variety and options for less randomness , and missions that feel like a story segment not a random king of the hill. The game is so thematic in many ways but falls down when it comes to objectives, And the lack of variety means it can feel samey very quickly. Other games like Bolt Action, Battletech, Middle Earth Strategy Board Game all have much more variety when it comes to what your going to play when you sit down keeping them fresh. I want to see asymmetrical missions that could be a Clone Wars of Rebels episode; escort the hostage/rescue the hostage (which could be one of your secondary/primaries); jailbreak/escape - one squad versus two but that one squad is running; steal stuff - plans etc, win is the objective not the struggle tracker. And thats something else, the struggle tracker is good but I feel we need scenarios with less abstract win conditions so that it feels like a real win getting something somewhere etc. Paired team play would be great as well.
They have started this process already. Look on their website for Key Operations. This is more along the lines you mentioned. They only have 2 out currently but plan to add more.
Lots of great ideas in this comment, thank you! Missions that feel like a story segment would be so great for this game - as you mentioned, I really enjoy knowing and loving all the units I put on the board. But when it comes to current missions... it's just hold the points and push the opponents off. Still fun, I love the struggle system, but as @btenta mentioned below, looking forward to Key Operations. And asymmetrical Rebels mission would be AMAZING. AMG should hire you lol. Thanks for the comment! Really a lot of good takes.
Shatterpoint is doing well around here... same crowd is playing mcp, so atomic mass has basically split the player base... but not split their player base? It's a different vibe I play ewoks, I have just two boxes, dice, movement tools. I built my terrain, whole ewok village, took two weekends. I am not a fan of jedi or sith or clones, it's not what i find interesting in star wars... Boba and Jango back before they and the rest of the mandolirians got explored, today no thanks, i like tgey mystery the questions the what did Vader referencethere moment. The things that should never have been touched. i like the background stuff, jawas, Bountyhunter, droids, the huts... the stuff that shouldn't be the focus or exlored beyond helping move the plot along, the stuff that makes the universe feel alive while all the time just being the curtain hiding the wizard. Don't pull back the damn curtain. I would entertain a Droid list if they comeout with Droid primaries and HK 47 made an appearance. I would look at a wookie list if they gave us two wookie boxes. Jawas I'm there. If they ever fix the Bounty Hunter issue I will look at a list. I am also a murder hobo, so the game drives me nuts... so I don't care if I am playing murder teddybears... it's not like storm trooper in actually on the menu, yub nub.
Loved the beer analogy! The last few days I've been loading up on Shatterpoint videos as a means to get back in to it. I bought the core set on day 1, painted EVERYTHING (unusual) in under two weeks (WHAT), then had one demo, and never touched it again. I WANT to love this system as it is pretty much the only non-GW game played locally.
Hey thanks! I love the game, been trying to get more people into it. So many fun units out now - I think it's a great time to get back into it. Actually working on a video now about getting into the game in late 2024!
@@scodysk Excellent, keep it up my dude! I'm thinking I might start a Shatterpoint series too, get that hype train rolling.
Hey you should! If you ever want to work on something together let me know 😏
@@scodysk YES mate, for sure. I'll get back up to speed on it all and be in touch!
This is a hobby 1st objective based game where your beautiful minis don’t leave and you can play and enjoy it.
That's a fair assessment! I will say, it was pretty disheartening seeing all my painstakingly painted clones disappear from the battlefield in legion 😂
@@scodysk hahahaha I share in your suffering :) Us GAR players are a fraternal order :)
@@TeaKay_421 Too real!! They're more than clones... They're brothers 😂
Not to be a negative Nancy, but I struggled to watch after about 3:20. Even though I was (and am) very interested in different perspectives, if you're going to get fundamental elements wrong, it makes it hard to have faith that any opinions expressed are based on the actual game.
The original mission pack does *not* only have three objectives active at a time. In the first Struggle, that's just not true.
Plus, you say Vader is slow. He's not. He can Advance without using an Activation, *and* Advance with one.
Lastly, Vader is not too strong. He's, he's very good at killing, but the game is really not about killing. (That comment about using Vader and Maul to table opponents is also just wrong.)
I know that all sounds harsh, but you can probably see that if your opinion is formed with two (and more later) elements objectively incorrect and a third being just an opinion, and not one shared by all, it's hard to get much out of the video.
But ok, I get kept going.
Then you say the second Mission Pack is basically the same. It's not. The objective placement distances very much change which characters do better compared to the original pack. Really, play enough games and it becomes clear. AMG even said that the initial several waves of characters were balanced to be better or worse across all three Missions, making roster building important - and it is. You don't even touch on rosters other than the incorrect statement that it's a heroes vs. villains game, which it isn't.
I know it won't matter to you, as you said yourself you have to pretend to care about what other people think. Still, I thought other readers here might want to understand that what you are saying is inaccurate and incomplete.
Spiteful? Maybe, but you said to send in the spiteful comments! ;)
Lol I actually appreciate this, thanks for commenting and if it was spiteful, it doesn't come across that way so all good. I didn't get the noti so I'm 11 days late but here we are!
In the spirit of keeping the video shorter, I did make some generalizations of the game. However, I don't think they're blatantly incorrect as you're saying.
1) Largely, most of the game is fighting over a few active objectives (in the shifting priorities mission pack). Sure, the first struggle is different, but the second (and, when played) the third struggle follow the same format.
2) I'll stick by Vader is slow. He has the advances, but no ability to jump. In a terrain-dense map, that severely limits his movement, and in my experience, resorted to him throwing his lightsaber instead of properly engaging since he's too slow or stubborn to climb. Take this one as you will.
3) Vader and Maul both have abilities, that when combined, allow players to roll and obscene amount of attack dice. They both also do a ton of damage. I say in the video itself that the game isn't about killing, so we agree there. Sure there might be better ways to kill your opponent, but in my experience going against someone running Maul and Vader meant that they were objective-blind and blood-starved lol.
4) Mission pack same. It is, I'm sorry. The distances change, sure, but as a casual player - it felt the same. Sorry 🤷. Also not sure when I said it was a heroes vs villains game (except if you're going for thematics or preference) but you're right. I didn't cover strike team building or rosters in this video since, well, it wasn't my intention to! I did that over a year ago in another video lol.
Thanks for the comment! I get that it was negative but sometimes this type of feedback than "V I D E O G U D"
I think this type of video brings some value in that it is not always apparent what those outside the ecosystem, looking in, think and feel about the game. Those within the system tend to look more favourably upon the game, and are willing to ignore, or brush aside, flaws with it (and let us be honest, Shatterpoint has flaws). It is, mostly, a good game, with a solid (almost airtight) rules system, but it struggles to attract new players outside those interested in a Star Wars licensed game.
The randomess, the same-y feeling missions (they have said new missions without a priority token are coming), and the fact that a single poor activation can really derail the game make it all very unfriendly to new players, or even casual players.
In the end, while I do think some of your criticisms/observations were a bit surface level, they are scratching a deeper concern that could impact the games ability to grow and expand.
Hey thanks 🙂 I appreciate the comment and I think you're spot on! I'm by no means claiming to be an expert, just a casual enjoyer who wants the game and community to thrive!
Thanks for the feedback! Gonna be diving back into the game real soon 🎉
Great quality video, underrated channel fr
Hey I appreciate that ❤️
Good video; I agree with most of what you said, specially about getting some new game modes in the future, to keep the game from going stale.
Thanks for the feedback ❤ fingers crossed for new game modes!
While I understand your viewpoint, as someone who has not played in a while, I disagree that the game isn’t full of strategy. A lot of the synergies and problems that the Vader meta had are not really the same and there are many ways to counter lists.
They have also already announced new game modes: key operations are alternate missions that will eventually lead to a sudo-campaign once the next one releases (2 have been released for free on AMG’s website) and Galactic Legends seems to be similar to Ultimate Encounters like MCP (but this is in alpha with Asajj currently available to test).
Hey I really appreciate the feedback!
I had figured that someone built a ranged list to counter Vader's melee, so interested to read more into that!
And I heard about the Ultimate encounters style thing in testing - hope it goes well! I'll check it out for myself next chance I get. I remember legion had a strike team alpha out a year or two back that I tried out, but not sure if that has gone anywhere. Legion isn't my fav, tho I have considered getting back into that too.
Thanks for the comment ❤ really appreciate your view
@@scodysk no problem. Look into the Iden lists if you are looking for a gun line squad. However Kanan rebels is currently the best way to handle kill squads with revenge triggers.
Also key operations are fun and I suggest trying those. I think this will be the way to play for "something different" in non competitive play. Each mission has different goals (i.e. save the prisoner or steal a shuttle). Like I said they have also mentioned they will have the first 3 key operations connected in some way but we don't know how that is going to look currently.
I like painting the minis more than playing it, 😂
But it’s fun from time to time.
Haha I like both, I go through phases. Really it's I get over zealous with buying minis, have a huge backlog to paint, get burnt out and would rather play. Wait a few months. Cycle starts over lol
I'd love to hear more reviews of packs and which ones you think are worth buying before others. Great video.
Thanks!! More stuff on the way 🫡
Amg loves making objective based rulesets and at the same time they are absolutely unable of creating captivating objectives. Althroughout ffg games they were made to „curate” they dumbed down/randomized too much which resulted in less real variance and in a far less captivating experience. Oh, and about your Legion comment, it being formulaic, I implore you to play it more, because even after amg changes its the most responsive and immediate battle system I played, at least in its bigger scale (although its still a step between skirmish and a big battler like wh40, which I agree is bloated to the max).
I'll have to revisit legion! It's been a while since I played, and I really enjoyed the system! Just no one around to play with me tbh lol, and too big of a game to bring extra and teach someone on the fly.
So for your objective based comment, what would make the objectives more captivating? Have you played a game that manages engaging objectives?
I learned my lesson with X-wing and armada lol
Yeah I'm sad to see those go the way they have 😔
1 cup since 1940!
It should be illegal to release a skirmish game without a campaign system attached to it.
Kinda agree with you here - I love the game but chasing objects for the last year was most satisfying when I would run a themed skirmish.
Still a more fun game than Legion imo and more thematic.
Totally agree! Might be because I'm better at shatterpoint than legion... Nah it's def more thematic 😂
For me, we need more variety and options for less randomness , and missions that feel like a story segment not a random king of the hill. The game is so thematic in many ways but falls down when it comes to objectives, And the lack of variety means it can feel samey very quickly. Other games like Bolt Action, Battletech, Middle Earth Strategy Board Game all have much more variety when it comes to what your going to play when you sit down keeping them fresh. I want to see asymmetrical missions that could be a Clone Wars of Rebels episode; escort the hostage/rescue the hostage (which could be one of your secondary/primaries); jailbreak/escape - one squad versus two but that one squad is running; steal stuff - plans etc, win is the objective not the struggle tracker. And thats something else, the struggle tracker is good but I feel we need scenarios with less abstract win conditions so that it feels like a real win getting something somewhere etc. Paired team play would be great as well.
They have started this process already. Look on their website for Key Operations. This is more along the lines you mentioned. They only have 2 out currently but plan to add more.
Lots of great ideas in this comment, thank you!
Missions that feel like a story segment would be so great for this game - as you mentioned, I really enjoy knowing and loving all the units I put on the board. But when it comes to current missions... it's just hold the points and push the opponents off. Still fun, I love the struggle system, but as @btenta mentioned below, looking forward to Key Operations.
And asymmetrical Rebels mission would be AMAZING. AMG should hire you lol.
Thanks for the comment! Really a lot of good takes.
They have these sort of scenarios on their website for free under key operations
Shatterpoint is doing well around here... same crowd is playing mcp, so atomic mass has basically split the player base... but not split their player base? It's a different vibe
I play ewoks, I have just two boxes, dice, movement tools.
I built my terrain, whole ewok village, took two weekends.
I am not a fan of jedi or sith or clones, it's not what i find interesting in star wars... Boba and Jango back before they and the rest of the mandolirians got explored, today no thanks, i like tgey mystery the questions the what did Vader referencethere moment. The things that should never have been touched. i like the background stuff, jawas, Bountyhunter, droids, the huts... the stuff that shouldn't be the focus or exlored beyond helping move the plot along, the stuff that makes the universe feel alive while all the time just being the curtain hiding the wizard. Don't pull back the damn curtain.
I would entertain a Droid list if they comeout with Droid primaries and HK 47 made an appearance.
I would look at a wookie list if they gave us two wookie boxes.
Jawas I'm there.
If they ever fix the Bounty Hunter issue I will look at a list.
I am also a murder hobo, so the game drives me nuts... so I don't care if I am playing murder teddybears... it's not like storm trooper in actually on the menu, yub nub.
lol and yub nub to you too! Maybe one day we'll get an official mode that rewards KOing opponents! Until then, ewoks!