Troy, I regret to inform you that it is far too late in the evening for me to roast potatoes and thus I cannot watch the video at the moment. However, I’ll try my best and be back tomorrow
1:16:39 I think it’s less Harry is jealous of Peter and more the fact that the person who won’t give him back his life-saving cure and just told him off less than 30 seconds ago is now being praised by his own father
He got a couple things wrong in the video, which includes this bit. In my opinion, it perfectly makes sense to me why he would be jealous and upset at that, and his motivation and the symbiote's motivation makes sense to me too, because the way I see it, is that the symbiote just helps it's host to achieve it's goal so that the host doesn't toss him out. Similar to how it makes peter think that the symbiote makes him a better spiderman and something that "makes me everything I need to be", it's just that the symbiote twists the mindset of what good is. I love this dynamic, but to each their own. I do agree on the anti venom part that it should've been more expanded.
@@johncapron6010not sure if I’m correct on what you mean by anti Venom being expanded but if you mean that it wasn’t gone in enough depth then I think it will eventually. Pete doesn’t really know how to use the power yet and it feels like it’s based off emotion.
@johncapron6010 The symbiote "Because Venom is Eddie Brock & the suit combined to get revenge on Peter Parker" didn't negatively affect the minds of the hosts in the comic. That happened in the animated series that was loosely based on said source material. Between 1984 and 1988 in the main canon comics, Spider-Man wanted to get it off just because Reed Richard told him that the suit was alive. He showed no aggression, all the suit did was controlled hid body while he was sleeping. That was all reconned because of the cartoon show in a vain attempt to make the books more popular and increase sales. Which is still ongoing today by the MCU. 😒
@@johncapron6010that’s a cool take that could explain wth was going on with the symbiote during the game. Tbh, I really don’t like the anti venom suit, as the video says, the black suit has become a sort of analogy to substance abuse, and with that in mind, I can’t help but feel like the message ends up being “if you’re struggling with a substance, it’s because you’re not using the correct substance”
You know a little detail I like in this story? When Symbiote Pete wakes up on the bench in the city his phone says it's 9:46 AM. In the very next cutscene when Peter sees MJ's article before visiting Harry, the time is 4:16 PM... *Peter kept Harry waiting for over 6 hours and 30 minutes only to show up at his place and tell him to stuff it* Priceless, and it also quietly encourages the player to ignore the story and do side stuff during that time.
I loved how Miles basically had an arc of wishing Peter had more time for him only to see inside his head and Peters struggles dealing with Aunt Mays death. It's like he realises "oh yeah, Peter is actually a person. He doesn't exist solely to be a mentor to me"
It’s not only that, I feel like the writers were so worried about making Miles “perfect” that they forgot about making him a good character in the first place. Are we really supposed to believe that he didn’t hear all the commotion and explosives at coney island? Peter almost died twice in this game and Miles wasn’t there both times… Why? We are not smart enough to deserve better writing it seems.
@JEF_W yeah, peak hypocrisy. He's complaining about peter not making time for him but when Pete is fighting for his life against the symbiotes miles is asking whatsherface on a date.
@@eddieroomsI find it hard to believe all of the Miles story. You mean to tell me he made almost no references to Li during the first 2 games but now he's out for blood? Yes, running into someone who caused you so much pain unexpectedly would piss you off, but there would definitely be some thoughts of that person in the first place
@@Beans-do6wc I know right? And it also feels like they were going for a more deep story for Miles but they cut off a lot of it by the time the game released. There are some leftover dialogues that hint that. It would have been so cool if Miles' revenge quest against Li was one of the reasons why Peter lost himself to the symbiote. But no, it's the other way around, Peter is a total jerk to Miles even without the black suit. We're always shown every single time Peter dumps him just because Harry is calling. They want us to believe that Peter NEVER calls him back? That he NEVER writes Miles back? Fuck off game...
I really love how to find a worthy opponent Kraven had to fight an actual alien. He had to go against a being not of this world in order to find his match.
He didn’t properly beat Sandman, he just riled him up and then let Spider-Man take care of him. I feel like Sandman would’ve easily defeated all of Kravens forces and Kraven himself
@@radfrad5359unless Kraven suddenly masters web shooters yeah it’s doubtful, I’d like to see a sick dude survive being thrown through a building and multiple city blocks
The "I'm sorry" that Yuri/Peter screams to the lady literally makes me tear up. Its sounds so genuine and its a wake up call that superheroes can't save everyone, no matter how hard they try.
@@stillis2489How- how would that have helped? I'm pretty sure those arms aren't strong enough to lift that giant fucking structure on their own and Peter was already being pulled down by the weight of the two cars he was barely managing to hold in one hand, he couldn't possibly have gotten any leverage to use the Spider Arms effectively in that scenario.
I think reading into context clues, the reason why Harry becomes Venom after getting the suit back is because Peter influenced it with his anxiety and anger. When Harry has it at the start, it doesn’t alter his emotions at all. Throughout the story we see that Peter is really struggling in his personal life, and internally the symbiote is taking on a lot of his emotions while he has it. He’s tired, stressed, possibly even angry and fed up with people even if he doesn’t show it. So when it goes back to Harry (who’s already angry at Peter), it takes on Peter’s anger as well as emphasising Harry’s emotions, turning him into a monster
@@jingleballs9935 just because there wasn’t a 5 minute exposition dump for you to understand, doesn’t mean that regular people can’t figure it out using context clues
If I had a nickel for every time Miles decided to do a random backflip rather than helping Pete, I would have two nickels. It’s not much but it’s weird it happened twice
I've always thought of Venom's goal as just being whatever the host wants because that way its most likely to survive because the host wont want to get rid of it
Yeah I thought this was kind of clear. When Peter had it he said “it makes me a better spiderman” so that was his entire goal. When back to Harry, it was about healing the world.
For the longest time, I didn't get why Harry was mad at the Peter and Norman interaction, but I think I may have figured it out. Norman says he's grateful and proud of Peter for being there for Harry moments after Peter has snapped at Harry and refused to help him. So I think in this instance, it's not the classic father-figure resentment we've seen before, but that he's mad that Peter is (in Harry's eyes) acting like he's still helping and cares after what had just happened. What he sees is Norman thanking Peter for caring and being a good person, and it makes sense for him to be upset about that after Peter has just essentially abandoned him in his time of need and omitted that truth from Norman. I think it doesn't come across clear because it seems like Insomniac tried to frame it as a reference to the classic daddy issues dynamic when really it shouldn't have been. Just my theory!
Not just that harry heard of what peter has done throughout his years which hurted an eavesdropping harry. I don't think insomniac was going for that father and son issue path, but more like harry is hurt because he's going to die without anything that would make norman proud and harry doesn't hate peter that much because in the end they're like brothers, he even tried to recruit peter in his twisted dream of healing the world while in the black goo
that but also, taking what we know from harry in the comics and their relationship it ultimately comes down to harry’s insecurities. outwardly this harry appears to wear his heart on his sleeve but when it comes to his bigger, core insecurities he bottles them. it’s up to interpretation but a lot of the time harry as a character is very queer-coded and norman clearly isn’t receptive to having a more softer, emotional momma’s boy who’s kinda an artsy dork that he’s always having to coddle and protect from the outside world. peter is incredibly intelligent and shares a lot of the same interests as norman when it comes to their love of science and with peter’s new found spider-abilities he essentially becomes the jock-like son that’s also a genius and from the outside appears to have his shit together with the house and his relationship with mj. he doesn’t have to constantly worry about and protect someone like peter and he sees him as what he could’ve had.
The Howard mission was PERFECT. God it hit me perfectly. Great choice of song while having you swing around the city and finding out he passed but is at peace. Just beautiful.
@@rurpzthey say he died of natural causes when you finish the mission. I don't think they would make Howard kill himself, even if it was peaceful that's a bit too dark for something as nuanced as this mission
@@Subpar1O1Not that you CAN'T do dark topics in a nuanced manner, I think a mission could go a similar route and still be handled well and with nuance even concerning the topic matter, but yeah, imo it was obvious that he KNEW he was going to pass away, beit purely from age or disease, and he was preparing himself to go in peace- Which happens much more often than a lot of people seem to think, people accept their mortality pretty frequently.
I relate to Peter so much in this Game. I just escaped an emotionally abusive relationship with a girl I loved. She left me because she preferred me over other people and we didn’t have the same interests so she abused me. For months I was having Panic Attacks and such and a lot of people left me because of my anxiety saying it was too much for them. I have now put on a mask to hide my anxiety but this game taught me how that’s not ok. This game is what I needed.
i found it weird when the dev said they found spiderman overpowered in stealth when testing and didn't want the gameplay to become repetitive. Spiderman has always been a stealth character(in games) to me. Even in animated he does way more work in the shadows than in public, the public just sees the boss battles😅
@spider-man5544 did I say I wanted another arkham? spider's stealth has always been unique and a sandbox to solve. webbing to walls or overhang takedown have existed before the arkham games did (Spider-Man movie tie in did arkham style stealth in 2002) at this point he is as much of a stealth character as the bat.
@@abhinavpandey900 Batman uses shadows but he doesn't use stealth. They both use hiding and sneaking about as much as each other in the comics, the difference is that when batman isn't hiding, he wants to scare people and when spidey isn't hiding, he wants to put them at ease (except that one time he was trying to be intimidating when daredevil was threatening all the crime bosses in NYC)
For your point/confusion on Peter giving the symbiote back to Harry and creating Venom, I interpreted it as Peter having corrupted the symbiote through all of his bully shenanigans. I think another way of looking at the Host and Symbiote relationship, is that it truly is a symbiotic relationship where they can both affect each other's mental state as well as goals (so it's maybe not simply just "goo is evil"). I'm thinking that the symbiote's initial goal was to simply become stronger to help Peter, but when it gets onto Harry for the second time it shifts its goal to "healing the world" in a dark, ambitious, and power hungry way after being influenced by Peter. My reasoning that it truly wants to help its host comes from all the times it actually helps Pete and Harry. Such as when it saves Harry from a self-inflicted fall at EMF (if it was already malicious it would've let Harry go splat and jump onto the stronger host that is Peter), and the infiltration of Kraven's dinner party where it pulls the rug to save a waiter from harm (to Peter's desires). As a side note, in terms of the symbiote transformation, Peter's lust for power to become a better Spider-Man combined with Harry's resentment for his best friend is possibly the cause for why the standard symbiote suit morphs into the monstrous/hulking Venom. In a way, I kinda see the symbiote as another victim throughout this whole story, a tragic loss of innocence due to Peter not fully resolving his trauma from May's passing and his inner hatred for the criminals of NYC. Looking back at the story now, it's kinda nice that Insomniac left enough for the symbiote to be up for interpretation and speculation (which is pretty fun to do), but I think they could've told a few more things to clear some stuff up to spare people from frustration and confusion.
insomniac really said "hey Peter you know they really cool arc you had about how you don't need extra powers to be a great Spider-Man and that your friends and connections are the help you need, yea were gonna give a new suit with all the same powers but zero drawbacks that basically just sends the message that you do need extra powers to be a better Spider-Man and that your not good enough, see you later Pete!"
@@speedyazi5029 I think it'd be great if WE WERE THE ONES RUNNING and we'd get kncoked into sewers, subways, etc. and he fights us in traditional bossfight style
@@speedyazi5029 maybe it was supposed to happen, but they decided to cut it for the MJ mission. You can even see a cutscene where Pete is getting chased by venom and it looks like it's going to transition into a playable moment, until it unfortunately switches to MJ.
They didn't really stick the landing with the whole Miles college essay story, but the vibe I got from a few of the comments he makes over the course of the game lead me to believe that Miles was going to take a gap year before starting college. Which is a nice dove tail on the "Balance" lesson that Aunt May gave Peter. Peter is balancing his life by pulling back on being Spider-Man to prioritize Emily-May stuff and having a more stable life with MJ. Miles on the other hand spends the whole game running away from doing that essay in favor of doing Spider-Man stuff showing that's where his passion is right now. Unlike Peter at that same age Miles has a support system. His mom, Uncle Aaron, Genki and Hailey all have Miles covered when he needs support so not immediately going to college is acceptable choice. It's just nice to see how they are building kind of a family/community that helps each other out and steps up to cover each other's slack so no one feels overwhelmed with their responsibilities.
As far as the black suit design goes, I really would've preferred if it started like the black color scheme for the advanced suit, then give more breathing room where he's being normal Spider-Man but with it on, maybe during the fight with the lizard transitions into what the default design is, then changed into the more alien version later when he breaks out of the cage going into the Kraven fight so there's more of a progression as it impacts Peter's mental state more and more. As is it just all feels very sudden
@@odd-dev I never said it should be a recolor I said it shouldve started *like* the black color scheme. The black suit storyline doesn't work if everyone can immediately tell the suit is bad news, in the comic it looked and felt like fabric it wasn't a gooey mass until it turned into venom. If they wanted the black suit to look gooey and alien it makes no sense why Peter would be totally ok with it when it's very clearly something weird and organic like it is in the game
Yeah I don’t think Peter should’ve had the alien look when he had the symbiote, at least not right off the bat. He’s supposed to think of it as some hi-tech bio suit and later find out that it’s an alien, in my opinion they missed the point by having it look like an evil sentient alien from the get go. Personally I think they should save the goo alien look for venom and keep the sleek shiny cloth look for Spider-Man when the symbiote storyline gets portrayed In media anyways.
@@Marabcd315 The way it was explained is why it works. With Harry explaining it being an exosuit thing, which sidesteps the "problem" you have with its design
I've seen a few people say the same thing about the scene where Harry overhears Norman and Peter, it gets chalked up to something that's rushed or unreasonable, but this is the way I see it. Harry and Norman seemingly have a good relationship, but Harry hasnt really had a father in a while because hes been spending all his time trying to save him. Harry knows hes dying and though no doubt he wants to live, he also sorely misses when his father could just be his father, just spend time with him, another thing this illness has taken from Harry. And seeing Peter recieve the last bit of fatherly tenderness we see for quite some time, all the while hes still holding onto the suit was ruthless. I feel a part of Norman is beginning to lose hope, and that same part is slowly latching on to peter to fill that hole, if Harry were to die that is. I think it's a great scene that people aren't reading into enough. Can't wait to see where they take these three in the next game.
Maybe for Venom to get his name Peter could mention early after getting the suit how it puts him on equal footing with Miles’s crazy abilities and say something about the suit basically being his version of Miles’s “venom”, leading the symbiote to take that name later as a callback
@@cockatoo_xxi7065 The difference is that the Suicide Squad line doesn't really do anything for the story. All it does is make a connection to the out-of-story title of the movie, so it feels somewhat unnecessary. In this case, however, a line like that would give a stronger reason for the symbiote to call itself Venom. The pause that Deadshot takes before he does the title drop also doesn't help matters, as it makes it feel like more of a wink-wink nudge-nudge moment.
Harry's disease was named as Oshtoran Syndrome in the last game, though it seems fairly obscure and it's not clear whether the game depicts anything close to reality.
Fun fact, when Otto says "the final chapter" the shadow from his glasses look like spider man lenses, and the superior spider man suit is the ONLY suit that's looking straight at you in the suit selection screen
Ok, I liked his performance so much that I looked up who played Kraven, and it's a guy named Jim Pirri, who, oddly enough, also voiced Salvatore Maroni in the straight-to-DVD animated movie Batman: The Long Halloween.
I feel the part around 1:31:43 confuses me, and I think it's because of a single thing you forgot to mention beforehand: the meteorite. The game shows that as soon Pete got in contact with it, he begins to take a more venomized design, and starts to act completely different from earlier. Rather than simply treating the suit as a person, he was treating it as another being, which can be seen by him saying "Destroy us" and all that. This does veer into headcanon-ish territory, but I thought that was the reason given behind why Harry becomes venom, rather than agent venom. The symbiote had remembered it's origin as an alien; a creature connected to some sort of hivemind. Perhaps due to the bonding process it had with Harry during his treatment, it ended up forgetting its original purpose. But as soon as it grabs ahold of the meteorite, it gets a flashback to how it arrived to the planet in the first place. That, to me, explicitly shows that the Symbiote now knows who it is, and that is why it ends up making Harry into Venom, rather than Agent Venom. So, if Harry had gotten the suit before it interacted with the meteorite, it is extremely likely that it might have continued to be docile and unaware of it's original purpose. Meaning that would've been the right thing to do at that point in time. Edit: Another comment made a good point that Peter's Rage combined with Harry's Resentment turned the symbiote into what it is now, which does make sense!
The college essay is the best part of Miles balance arc for me because I remember my admission counselor openly laughing when I said I was worried I wasn't gonna get in. She just asked why and I said "the essay". I had like a 3.71 GPA. Miles could get into ANY school.
Even if Spiderman 2 isn't perfect for everyone, I can still say I enjoyed the absolute hell of it, and personally, I'm satisfied with the long-awaited game and everyone who worked extremely hard at Insomniac games and the cast deserves all the praise and support for possibly one of the greatest comic book videogames made. Really excited about what they give us in the future
They should have removed dodge indicators during the symbiote fights making you have to pay attention to attack telegraphs. Spiderman is not supposed to be able to sense venom with his spider sense. He always gets ambushed by venom for a reason. I wish they honored that part of the lore.
I agree from a lore perspective but the fact is, from a gameplay perspective, they really couldn't have gotten away with this. First of all, since you can switch between peter and miles and fight symbiotes in the open world, Miles would just be the objectively better option because he'd have spidey sense (because the reason pete can't sense the symbiote is that he bonded with it which Miles never did), and secondly the spidey sense indicators are a vital part of the combat. You wouldn't be making the combat more immersive by removing it from combat, you'd be making it less fun. No indicator of whether to parry or dodge, no idea if an enemy you can't see is coming for you, etc Like, it'd be possible to rework the current system into a system that would work without spidey sense, but it'd require a fundamental redesign of the combat and make you relearn it like 2/3rds of the way through the game
@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 it would just require paying attention to the attack telegraphs the arkham games have hard modes that remove the counter icon you have to pay attention yourself to counter enemies. But I hear you the play space is a little to chaotic for it to work compared to arkham combat it might even end being more rage enduring than a souls game
2:05:40 In defence of MJ, she's only just entered rehab for her compulsive "strap em down/tag and bag" killing spree so she's not going to be in the right frame of mind to think rationally about new hobbies.
I really liked the cinematography of the game and the way shots are put together is *Chef's Kiss*. It is barely noticeable, but at 1:26:52 when Venom fully takes over Harry and the camera is panned behind Peter it looks like it being panned in a way like when a boss fight begins, but when Norman comes into the shot to tell Peter to not hurt Harry is amazing cinematography. It is not noticeable to some, but play that particular mission again and see it for yourselves. It is a good subversion of expectation when you think you are about to fight Venom and your childhood best friend, but it cements that Harry is still within the suit when Norman steps into frame to remind us that our best friend who is dying is still in that suit of goop. I love the great Cinematography and storytelling of Spiderman 2 and I cannot wait for what is next for Insomniac Games in the future.
1:57:00 Minor detail in a LONG video detailing an ENTIRE game so all is forgiven - but during the mission where you go into Pete's mind to cure him and ultimately give him the Anti-Venom suit they quite literally explain explicitly that the suit was bonded to him long enough that it's engrained itself into Pete's DNA, which is backed in legacy canon of the Venom character as being a part of his "codex" and is backed in game by it being explained to have bonded to Harry in the same way, on a molecular level to Harry's DNA causing his genetic disorder to be curable by the symbiote. So more or less your "guess" you gave about ten second later is pretty much spot on. Excellent work!
Love this take on the "Peter was nerfed" thing. I think something that epitomises spider man's character is his ability to lose again and again and be able to get back up
Norman was the best part of this game. It has me really excited to see him become the Goblin, with his love and respect for Peter, yet despises Spiderman blaming him for Harrys coma at the end of the game.
yeah I agree, I like how hes a distressed father willing to do anything to save his son, we got some elements of that bond in Raimi Spiderman 1 and how Harry carries his fathers' legacy, but I feel that here in this game is kinda one sided I wish we got more scenes with Harry and Norman
Peter’s line during the Miles fight: “I’m the hero, I don’t get saved” is such a great and tragic way to reframe the symbiote arc and how Peter’s failing isn’t falling for the suit, it’s doubting himself compared to his peers/mentees.
Imma be real honest when it came to the depiction of may’s dirty house, I think thats the best way to depiction of it, its the grief and misery he is going through in the game. But I saw this process when my grandma died, the house was filthy because so much of my grandmas stuff wasnt moved or even cleaned out, it was like she was still there like the house was trapped in the moment before she died. Just like mays house which i found really heart warming
1:49:00 - The Studio wanted the game out, so they scrapped 70% of Tony Todd's lines, a section of the game where Miles gets the symbiote, among other things. They were rushed so much they literally told us that they were worried they wouldn;'t be able to make a satisfying final half of the game. YAY STUDIO INTERFERENCE!
1:16:18 To explain, I think it's because Peter just yelled and insulted MJ and Harry and is being selfish with the suit and in general so when he then gets complimented from Osborn, it just angers him, especially since as far as Harry knows, Pete is hogging the one thing that can save him.
I feel like something people don't mention whenever they say that this game was too short is the amount of busy work that Insomniac cut out. To 100% Spider-Man 1 (ignoring the main story missions) you have to do collect 55 Backpacks, 16 Side Missions, 47 Landmark Photos, 6 Fisk Hideouts with 6 waves each, 5 Demon Warehouses with 6 waves each, 4 Sable Outposts with 6 waves each, 4 Prisoner Camps with 6 waves each, 17 Research Stations, 11 Black Cat Stakeouts, 12 Pigeons, 16 Taskmaster Challenges, 45, Thug Crimes, 40 Demon Crimes, 40 Prisoner Crimes, and 40 Sable Crimes. A lot of these things, especially the 165 random crimes you have to do, definitely inflate the overall time it takes to 100% complete the game. Comparatively, to 100% Spider-Man 2 (again ignoring the main story missions) you need to do 14 Marko’s Memories, 23 Photo Ops, 6 FNSM Request, 10 Prowler Stashes, 4 The Flame Side Missions, 5 Brooklyn Visions Side Missions, 9 EMF Experiments, 43 Spider-Bots, 10 Mysteriums, 2 Cultural Museum Missions, 11 Hunter Blinds, 4 Hunter Bases, 9 Unidentified Target challenges, and 9 Symbiote nests. It is overall less stuff that you need to do, but I’d argue that a lot of them are of higher quality.
Yes! I think the main story/sidequest pacing is much better in this than in the original (which kinda cancels itself out because the story pacing isnt as good as in 1)
Yeah I’d agree! Although I do wish we had more stuff like backpacks because I loved the flashback stuff so much and I think the backpacks could have assisted some flashback scenes and filled in the gaps. Like backpacks relating to the Lizard and some of the older villains that we see in the game and maybe provide some extra content for the villains that Kraven killed to make it feel less sudden?
I'd say the problem is that the first one has much better side missions than the second one. Why? Not only were they better linked to the main story, they were much more fun. They put a bunch of stuff that don't really matter at all. What's the point of helping the rich kids at Brooklyn Visions? Really? Going to a museum? So much more could've been done and better, give Scorpion, Mysterio, Sandman, Prowler, Mr. Negative, Tombstone and Black Cat more, don't just throw some "oh this happened" or "oh so they're fine". There's no conflict, no consequence, no point. It's like someone told developers to make up "mature and adult content" and this is what they managed to think of.
I’d agree with the robot dog and howard mission, but all the woke missions were just very uncessary, but over i feel like side missions felt the exact same, the flame lore was nice alonf with chameleon easter egg, but i feel they couldve done more intresting side missions like the arkham games do (riddler-like challenges suck in both games)
I remember getting the spider cube and thinking it was the funniest bug ever. Just seeing enemies getting pushed back by the invisible venom punch was too much. I have some clips saved before my game crashed
I have to say, the Anti-Venom Suit actually makes sense with the "Addiction" allegory. The suit represents gaining a healthier relationship with the thing you once were addicted to. "The voices are gone, but the power is still there" shows that you can get drunk from time to time but your need for more isn't there anymore (I uses alcoholism as an example). So yeah, Anti-Venom actually makes much more sense.
I love taking the classic "being spiderman is a sacrifice and a burden" narrative being combined with the "anyone can out on the mask" narrative to create a situation for peter to genuinely rest and for things to not go to hell. His actions inspired miles and because of that peter is able to take time to himself and i think thats beautiful.
The subtext around how the symbiote works totally clicked with me on the first playthrough. The symbiote has always wanted to take over the world, it just needed someone with enough pain and anger to unleash its true form. Harry wasn't as pained as Peter was, and the symbiote could sense all of it on Peter. His anxiety around protecting the people he loves, his guilt around losing May despite doing the right thing. So when the symbiote gets the chance to take advantage of Peter, it gets to work. It was so close to success. Kraven was always looking to unleash the beast. If Peter had killed Kraven and Miles, that would have been enough to fully take Peter over and become Venom. But Peter has a friend in Miles who was able to anchor him and pull him out. Harry, due to Peter having the symbiote, lacked that anchor of friendship. Harry began to resent Peter. So when the symbiote is returned, only now does Harry have enough anger to let Venom take him.
See I always took the symbiote as an almost childlike entity that responds to the emotions of those around it. Osborn was it's first host and he just wanted Harry to heal. The symbiote responded to this and did just that! It healed Harry and once it bonded with him it helped him stay healthy. When Harry learned about a Peters identity as Spider-Man Harry's desire shifted to being "like spider man" the symbiote even reaches out to Peter as a sign of this desire. Agent Venom also comes from this desire to be like Peter and it even gives Harry the emblem. The suit only ever truly leaves Harry when his desire shifts to healing Peter after the knife wound. Now that its bonded with Peter whooooooo boy it breaks the poor aliens mind. Peter is a MESS. Peters desires are complicated and rough and messy. Peter is feeling his age and stress, the symbiote responds by making him stronger and by fighting even when Peter sleeps. Its being corrupted by peters anger and stress and becomes more and more violent and feral. It also still senses his desire to help people, but it's being corrupted by the rest of peters warped desires. I also think it's why Peter was unable to give it back to Harry originally. Peter knew that he SHOULD give the suit back, but deep down he didn't WANT to give the suit back. When it eventually rejoins with Harry the suit has been essentially brain broken by living in peters head for so long. Couple that with Harry's new feelings of resentment and anger towards Peter and Harry's desire to save the world and you have the recipe for disaster we see in the final act.
The one thing I really wish we would have gotten is returning villains post game. I think it would have been really cool to be swinging around, and suddenly you get a notification on your app that Lizard, Sandman, or some other boss character is rampaging somewhere in the city, and you basically play an amped up version of their boss fight. Maybe each encounter getting progressively harder.
@ungusbungus2486 Yeah but if you beat the story, you learn the post game isn't canon. So they could have brought any/all villains back that they wanted to.
I'm sure you're making a lot of excellent, nuanced and well-thought out points here, but I've been watching this for an hour and I can't stop thinking about how nice your hair looks
I think the symbiote instead of just simply making the host evil, it takes the host desires and twists it to fit it's own way of doing things. Which further backs it up by Peter wanting to be a better Spider-Man and Harry wanting to heal the world with Peter.
I haven't finished watching the video yet, but yes I would LOVE to see you cover Ben 10 on the channel, either as a retrospective or a rewrite would be amazing. (Also this video is pretty good, I've been loving it so far)
(SC: I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos.) Unironically though, I loved the review, it was awesome
i dunno i think the anti-venom suit could've meant "you think that whatever you're addicted to makes you stronger, but that isn't good for you and you don't need that to be stronger. if you wanna be stronger, you need a healthy support system and relationships" the anti-venom suit was forged by mister negative's redemption and second chances, and miles comforting peter in his time of need I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos.
1:16:05 Harry is angry with his father here because his father was praising someone who just presented himself as someone selfish and would let Harry die to keep the suit.
After beating the game, my current favorite thing to do and basically all I do in the game now is just open it up, go to the water between the two halves of the map, turn on super point launches, and then just glide and point launch off of boats, you get some EXTREME speed, and then you can swing under the bridges or even catch the wind currents
To be honest, I liked Spider-Man’s relationship to the police in the first game. Making friends in the force to connect him to more official sources (kind of like Batman, now that I think about it) was neat for a veteran Spidey. Plus, it feels like in this game he just beats up criminals and leaves, no police to arrest them or anything. I understand the police are controversial at the moment, with a spotlight being shone on their problems, but I don’t think illegal vigilantism is the morally superior option.
26:18 I thought there was gonna be some plot point about Harry clinging to the past, and Peter having to move forward (hence the bikes). And I think maybe they were gonna do that. Like with Peter getting past the symbiote and Harry going back to it or, heck, the final battle takes place at their high school. But then they just didn’t do that. It makes me wonder if it got cut, because I’m pretty sure Yuri Lowenthal said he recorded hundreds of lines that didn’t end up in the game (don’t quote me on that) so I guess it could’ve been cut. 29:27 I feel like Miles had not enough to do in the first half and then too much to do in the second half. Like I wish the Martin Li stuff was better spread out, maybe give him something to do with Uncle Aaron or make the museum robbery side quest a bigger part of the story. Like anything to give him something to do other than just sort of exist. 42:25 Cute how Tombstone was reformed, wish there was more of that. Maybe a Tombstone side mission where you take down some of his old thugs. Also: “I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you’re so cool and I watch all your videos.”
Isn't harry's reason on emf is a tribute to his mom and make her words to a reality and its evident when miles had a phone call from harry im pretty he sure he clings on it by a lot its just subtle I agree the only think i can complain about is the how martin li story was paced but even then i think its all good There is like mysterio and you have to deal with mysterium challenges where you fight a younger more narcissistic self of mysterio
most of the story is from sweet baby inc a ESG company outsourced for narrative and character writing the simple answer is just didn't bother, they didn't care
2:18:23 I feel like the symbiot in this game is the personification of anger. We have all felt pure anger in our lives to the point where it makes us say some horrible things and that’s what makes the symbiot more powerful. I think when the symbiot covers its host it hightens this emotion (feeding off of it) causing them to let loose and not hold back. So when they are freed they feel relieved not just from the symbiot but that horrible feeling of hatred. This also explains why harry doesn’t seem to be acting out of place when he first has the symbiot as he doesn’t really have anything that he truly hates in life. However Peter has a lot of built up trauma and people he blames (mainly himself) that that anger just comes straight out and is preyed upon. This is where the symbiot sees a way to accomplish its goal and why venom never really gives up on the idea of Peter joining him to complete his mission. Great video as always!
The tension between Harry and his dad is meant to come from Norman being yes, loving, but also a bit controlling. He doesn't respect Harry's wishes to tell his friends, he inserts himself into his projects, and the Hostile Takeover novel which goes more into it reveals that he did things like hire people to spy on Harry when he was out. I think there's also tension around the way they both treat Harry's illness. Harry is ashamed of it but his way of dealing with it seems to be trying to not dwell on it and establish himself out side of his condition. Meanwhile Norman is entirely fixated on curing it, which kind of reinforces it as something Harry should be ashamed of while defining him by it. Ergo being rejected by the symbiote for Peter's strength (and health) and then seeing Norman treating Peter like a son kind builds up the anxiety that he's worth less because of his illness and that everyone sees him as a burden. I do think they could have done more to show it, maybe have that connection between Harry and the symbiote be the feeling of rejection and to prove themselves worthy. I also wasn't really clear if Harry knew of the entire situation with Lee and then the Devil's Breath. It feels like it finding out the extent of what Norman did to save him, while entirely undermining Harry's own dreams and values in the process, would be a good sticking point between them.
The symbiote in this story is different through many reasons, instead of feeding on negative emotions, it instead feeds on the hosts thoughts and manipulates them, it manipulated Peter's thoughts of being a good Spider-Man to the point that Peter felt like he needed the symbiote to be a good Spider-Man and it also manipulated Harry's thoughts which was to heal the world, it manipulated him into allowing the city to be overrun by symbiotes.
In a SM game where you have side missions involving Carnage, Chameleon and the broader Spider-Verse, making down-to-earth side content as good as the Grandpa Earl and Howard missions (which are my favorite ones) really says a lot about the creative team behind this game, and how much they care and understand Spider-Man.
Yeah but then they made useless content such as mj missions the hailey mission and the Brooklyn visions side quests like bruh the grandpa earl and Howard missions were great, but man I wish I played more of venom 😂
From the implications I read from the game (maybe this is just a head cannon at this point to justify Agent Venom idk) with how Harry was with the suit, being perky and brave I think that the symbiote just amplifies and retains the emotions of it’s wearer whilst still having its own. For example: Peter angry, that make symbiote angry. Peter abandoned symbiote and Harry, that make venom angry and add Peter angry on to that.
I would love to see some Ben 10 content like you mentioned in the vid. I also found the continuous gags with Aaron's terrible beat and MJ's bloodlust really funny. Keep it up 💪
19:03 Not finished the video yet, so I’m sorry if this is brought up later but I really didn’t like either Jameson’s or Danika’s portrayal in this game specifically. They portray them as the designated “Point and laugh at how wrong” and “Sit and ponder how infallibly right” characters respectively and it not only lessons Jameson as a character but treats Danika as somehow omniscient. I liked her in Miles Morales as more of a representative of the community’s thoughts and feelings, but here she just regurgitates the story we’re actively watching unfold and somehow knows/predicts plot points and events that only the player would know?
Excellent review, Troy! You articulate your points really well while seeming fair and reasonable! I also really enjoyed the game, but had some issues- I feel like it could have been cool if maybe Miles got a bit of the symbiote, especially with his revenge arc for Li. Keep up the amazing work by making great reviews and always sticking up for what is right! I would love to see Ben 10 content as well, especially a Live Action Prewrite movie Also, I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy your'e so cool and I watch all your videos
I agree entirely with your swinging settings. 10 feels too slow but when it's on 0, hitting the floor so often is just really frustrating. Keeping me off the ground but still requiring effort to keep going feels so good, and you can even still hit the ground if you're really not trying. 1 is my favorite swing assist
19:35 It reminds me of Venom Let There Be Carnage teasing Sony’s Venom having a confrontation with MCU Spider-Man, only to spend all of his time in the MCU learning about the history and getting sent back as soon as he was going to go meet him.
I love this game a lot, my only complaints are not having enough time with the Black suit and not enough time with Venom, if they added onto the 3rd act and made it feel not as rushed, I think this could've been one of the greatest games ever made. Edit: spelling
My viewpoint of the symbiote in this game is that it takes the innermost desires of the host and unintentionally twists and corrupts them, seeing them from a simple animalistic view. Peter wants to he a better Spider-Man, so hes twisted into being cruel and brutal. Harry wants to "heal the world", which is already a pretty vague statement, and corrupts it into "healing" all weaknesses and imperfections, ie make it like the symbiote. But thats just how I thought the story was portraying it. Kinda plays into the themes of mental health and how your desires can be used against you.
1:01:25 ... its almost as if someone should've told Mr. Osborne that he lost the suit... maybe then he could've said " Oh I sent a piece off" and get the piece back. Or you could say the train coming back was because he sent for it to get the other symbiote piece to save Harry? And Cletus just hijacked it?
I'd like if he didn't have them at first, to make him feel weaker. He gets the symbiote, and feels stronger, like a better spidey. After, he's got some darkness, but he uses Otto's tech, to remind himself that he can build from mistakes. Like the theme of the game, second chances.
"This is what you wanted" is simply in reference to Norman wanting Harry to not die, and now he wont die. I think trying to take it as Harry living up to Norman's (nonexistent) pressure on Harry is reaching a little too far.
For me the differences with this venom subverted my expectations in a kool way. I did get the sense also that Harry was involved and that the Symbiote had an emotional element to it like it became invested in the dynamics of the broken friendship by being bonded to Peter and Harry, but was still obviously driven by its alien Instinct which gave it a Cosmic horror vibe and made thier story more tragic for me
One thing is that they oversteered way too hard on the police removal thing. The entire story has one instance of the police getting involved and it’s for a brief moment as a helicopter during the lizard chase. Especially when it comes to the hunters the police are blind to it. The hunters attack a prison transport ship, occupy a neighborhood, and attack a research center and there is no response.
Being 100%, I would’ve preferred this game be delayed so we could get a more fleshed out story. I really loved the game but how they showed Peter with the symbiote was not that great. I really wanted to see the “Addiction” part a lot more.
Nah, the symbiote here is a neutral amoral organism that is corrupted by the users, not just some evil goop, the stressful situations the characters passed through the story are the things that create Venom, not backwards, and I love this way of adapting it, the motivation of the symbiote are the motivations of the characters that wore it, it's like a pet, it just wanted to help.
So I have never played a Spider-Man game... or even watched someone play a through one, and I absolutely loved this video. I genuinely appreciated the effort put in to point out the little details, which is what I think makes a story so well done. I love that fact all the plot points where laid out so well, nothing felt like it was underexplained or reiterated too many time (yes even the 'second chances' part - seeing as it was the biggest theme of the game). Just an all round great video, thank you making it :)
The thing a lot of people miss in this game is venoms reasons for doing what he does ge doesnt want to be alone every thing he does is built on thought like when he begged peter to join him If he makes the whole world like he wont be alone at least thats the way i took all of it
Never thought about it until you brought it up at 26:18, but I think the "thematic significance" of the bike is that not everything is what it seems to be. Harry isn't better, he's about to be puppeted by an alien. The suit doesn't make Peter a better Spider-Man because he's abandoning the very principles that made him Spider-Man in the first place. I'm sure there are a few more, but this seems to be a big theme in this game.
i swear to god if the third game has some final mission suit imma be so pissed. If we're fighting green goblin(spider-man's MOST iconic villain), in ANYTHING other than the classic suit i will be so disappointed because this kind of set piece deserves to be untouched.
I don’t think I see any comments on it but the reason that fire isn’t really that much of a weakness for Venom is because there’s so many situations and sequences during the game where he’s around fire so rather than try and work around that they just flat out gave him immunity to fire.
See I always took the symbiote as an almost childlike entity that responds to the emotions of those around it. Osborn was it's first host and he just wanted Harry to heal. The symbiote responded to this and did just that! It healed Harry and once it bonded with him it helped him stay healthy. When Harry learned about a Peters identity as Spider-Man Harry's desire shifted to being "like spider man" the symbiote even reaches out to Peter as a sign of this desire. Agent Venom also comes from this desire to be like Peter and it even gives Harry the emblem. The suit only ever truly leaves Harry when his desire shifts to healing Peter after the knife wound. Now that its bonded with Peter whooooooo boy it breaks the poor aliens mind. Peter is a MESS. Peters desires are complicated and rough and messy. Peter is feeling his age and stress, the symbiote responds by making him stronger and by fighting even when Peter sleeps. Its being corrupted by peters anger and stress and becomes more and more violent and feral. It also still senses his desire to help people, but it's being corrupted by the rest of peters warped desires. I also think it's why Peter was unable to give it back to Harry originally. Peter knew that he SHOULD give the suit back, but deep down he didn't WANT to give the suit back. When it eventually rejoins with Harry the suit has been essentially brain broken by living in peters head for so long. Couple that with Harry's new feelings of resentment and anger towards Peter and Harry's desire to save the world and you have the recipe for disaster we see in the final act.
1:23:06 i agree 100% with you. The game needed more explanation on symbiote and antivenom in general.. it was so rushed we didn't get connors to even acknowledge the antivenom lol
From what i've understood it was because of Harry's anger and betrayal that he felt when Peter after all that time would still not give him his only cure -basically killing him- that he finally changed into Venom and not into his normal agent venom symbiote suit. Maybe he also got that angry because there was probably symbiote left in him just like Peter. If Peter almost reverted that quickly when he just had the symbiote for a few days, imagine how it would be for Harry when he was in contact with the symbiote for that long. But yeah I can see why you didn't like the decision they made on making every symbiote evil, they probs did that so they wouldnt get complains from people who think hes just a spiderman villain and only want to see him in that way
I think this might be related to what was up with Carnage in the comics. The Carnage symbiote is destroyed early on, but before that it modified Kasady's blood to generate copies of it. So this kind of more permanent bond thing is definitely not unheard of for symbiotes. I assume the Carnage DLC will have the Anti-Venom suit purged somehow though, completely cleansed from his system. Maybe as part of a process to destroy the Carnage symbiote. But that's just speculation.
1:16:08 I think the game was trying to convey that Harry was angry, not because of the usual toxic father son dynamic, but because we have Norman praising Peter for being a good friend when Harry and the player knows the exact opposite is true as shown in the previous scene before it. Peter is becoming less invested in helping Harry and is on the line (if not already) actively killing him and Harry can't just explain that to his father. Peter gets to be presented as the good best friend when it's the furthest thing from the truth.
This game is personally in my top 3 stories in games, with the 2018 god of war and Titanfall 2 being the others. I love this interpretation of Venom and Kraven, and while the black suit part could’ve been a BIT longer, the gameplay absolutely made up for it. My favourite suits to use were the default ones (the new advanced suit is insanely awesome) and the superior for Peter and atsv suit for miles. All in all 10/10 game imo
1:09 Yes… *YESSSSSS!!!* This is EXACTLY why I love you as a content creator, Troyo. Not in one crazy extreme camp, but in the middle-Being able to enjoy a work of fiction while still being able to critique it. You don’t know how many times there’s been a ‘reviewer’ on a game that is either a rage-rant or just completely blind with praise, so (although the title, length, and thumbnail scared me a bit) it’s good to see that you’re still keeping that great aspect. 👍👍👍
When I said I had "a lot of thoughts" that was kind of an understatement...
2 HOURS? That’s pretty cool.
honestly ill sit through all 2 hours of this video
I read the comment and was so confused, then I looked at the video length
That’s true bet is DEFINITELY impressive. Good Job Man
Troy, I regret to inform you that it is far too late in the evening for me to roast potatoes and thus I cannot watch the video at the moment. However, I’ll try my best and be back tomorrow
Dude, the fact you always name drop a bunch of comics with their authors instead just the movies or cartoons, mad respect
Yup
Neeerd
@@Super_Broly bro this is a spiderman channel ofc the fans are nerds
@@Super_Brolyno shot the dragon ball fan just called someone a nerd
That is why Troyoboyo 17 is a legend.
1:16:39 I think it’s less Harry is jealous of Peter and more the fact that the person who won’t give him back his life-saving cure and just told him off less than 30 seconds ago is now being praised by his own father
He got a couple things wrong in the video, which includes this bit. In my opinion, it perfectly makes sense to me why he would be jealous and upset at that, and his motivation and the symbiote's motivation makes sense to me too, because the way I see it, is that the symbiote just helps it's host to achieve it's goal so that the host doesn't toss him out. Similar to how it makes peter think that the symbiote makes him a better spiderman and something that "makes me everything I need to be", it's just that the symbiote twists the mindset of what good is. I love this dynamic, but to each their own. I do agree on the anti venom part that it should've been more expanded.
@@johncapron6010not sure if I’m correct on what you mean by anti Venom being expanded but if you mean that it wasn’t gone in enough depth then I think it will eventually. Pete doesn’t really know how to use the power yet and it feels like it’s based off emotion.
@johncapron6010 The symbiote "Because Venom is Eddie Brock & the suit combined to get revenge on Peter Parker" didn't negatively affect the minds of the hosts in the comic. That happened in the animated series that was loosely based on said source material. Between 1984 and 1988 in the main canon comics, Spider-Man wanted to get it off just because Reed Richard told him that the suit was alive. He showed no aggression, all the suit did was controlled hid body while he was sleeping. That was all reconned because of the cartoon show in a vain attempt to make the books more popular and increase sales. Which is still ongoing today by the MCU. 😒
@@johncapron6010that’s a cool take that could explain wth was going on with the symbiote during the game.
Tbh, I really don’t like the anti venom suit, as the video says, the black suit has become a sort of analogy to substance abuse, and with that in mind, I can’t help but feel like the message ends up being “if you’re struggling with a substance, it’s because you’re not using the correct substance”
You know a little detail I like in this story? When Symbiote Pete wakes up on the bench in the city his phone says it's 9:46 AM. In the very next cutscene when Peter sees MJ's article before visiting Harry, the time is 4:16 PM... *Peter kept Harry waiting for over 6 hours and 30 minutes only to show up at his place and tell him to stuff it*
Priceless, and it also quietly encourages the player to ignore the story and do side stuff during that time.
Your definitely right with that, because if you wait long enough peter has a line saying that he's annoyed how much harry is bugging him
I loved how Miles basically had an arc of wishing Peter had more time for him only to see inside his head and Peters struggles dealing with Aunt Mays death. It's like he realises "oh yeah, Peter is actually a person. He doesn't exist solely to be a mentor to me"
It’s not only that, I feel like the writers were so worried about making Miles “perfect” that they forgot about making him a good character in the first place.
Are we really supposed to believe that he didn’t hear all the commotion and explosives at coney island?
Peter almost died twice in this game and Miles wasn’t there both times… Why? We are not smart enough to deserve better writing it seems.
@@eddieroomsanyone thinks Miles deals with hypocrisy in this game?
@JEF_W yeah, peak hypocrisy. He's complaining about peter not making time for him but when Pete is fighting for his life against the symbiotes miles is asking whatsherface on a date.
@@eddieroomsI find it hard to believe all of the Miles story. You mean to tell me he made almost no references to Li during the first 2 games but now he's out for blood? Yes, running into someone who caused you so much pain unexpectedly would piss you off, but there would definitely be some thoughts of that person in the first place
@@Beans-do6wc I know right? And it also feels like they were going for a more deep story for Miles but they cut off a lot of it by the time the game released. There are some leftover dialogues that hint that. It would have been so cool if Miles' revenge quest against Li was one of the reasons why Peter lost himself to the symbiote. But no, it's the other way around, Peter is a total jerk to Miles even without the black suit. We're always shown every single time Peter dumps him just because Harry is calling. They want us to believe that Peter NEVER calls him back? That he NEVER writes Miles back? Fuck off game...
I really love how to find a worthy opponent Kraven had to fight an actual alien. He had to go against a being not of this world in order to find his match.
He did say, “I will not die like a mortal man” or something along those lines.
@@Im.myfuture "I will not die on a sick bed!"
He didn’t properly beat Sandman, he just riled him up and then let Spider-Man take care of him. I feel like Sandman would’ve easily defeated all of Kravens forces and Kraven himself
@@radfrad5359unless Kraven suddenly masters web shooters yeah it’s doubtful, I’d like to see a sick dude survive being thrown through a building and multiple city blocks
True
The "I'm sorry" that Yuri/Peter screams to the lady literally makes me tear up. Its sounds so genuine and its a wake up call that superheroes can't save everyone, no matter how hard they try.
I'd really like that scene if it weren't for one nitpick i just cannot get over: why didn't he just use his robot spider arms?
@@stillis2489right!?
He still wouldn't have been able to reach here @@stillis2489
@@stillis2489How- how would that have helped? I'm pretty sure those arms aren't strong enough to lift that giant fucking structure on their own and Peter was already being pulled down by the weight of the two cars he was barely managing to hold in one hand, he couldn't possibly have gotten any leverage to use the Spider Arms effectively in that scenario.
@@infamousplayer8772 i dunno
I'm just saying, if they didn't kill off Shocker, and gave Yuri a "SHOCKER!!!!" moment, he probably would've won best performance
Honestly. Yes, they were just mad there was a “SHOCKER!!” Moment
He didn’t chase him to the ends of the earth in MSM2. 😔
No bruh
@@DeterminedTorresnah
@@Lerch916huh
I think reading into context clues, the reason why Harry becomes Venom after getting the suit back is because Peter influenced it with his anxiety and anger. When Harry has it at the start, it doesn’t alter his emotions at all.
Throughout the story we see that Peter is really struggling in his personal life, and internally the symbiote is taking on a lot of his emotions while he has it. He’s tired, stressed, possibly even angry and fed up with people even if he doesn’t show it.
So when it goes back to Harry (who’s already angry at Peter), it takes on Peter’s anger as well as emphasising Harry’s emotions, turning him into a monster
Huh... That's actually a REALLY good theory.
Honestly, I WISH that was the case, it would make the whole thing come full circle!
@@aliminator1310that is the case
@@shaunavant532no it’s not lmao just head canon
@@jingleballs9935 that’s legit what happend! How do you not know this?..
@@jingleballs9935 just because there wasn’t a 5 minute exposition dump for you to understand, doesn’t mean that regular people can’t figure it out using context clues
If I had a nickel for every time Miles decided to do a random backflip rather than helping Pete, I would have two nickels. It’s not much but it’s weird it happened twice
A random backflip that got him CLOSER to danger. His spider sense is on a LOA
@@Beans-do6wc
Miles "What's Up Danger" Morales
The Howard mission was the mission that made me feel 100% happy with my purchase of this game. Made me cry like a freaking baby.
I was confused like why did he kill himself
@@rurpz he didn't kill himself, he knew he was dying
@thatnevelguy4466 i mean, he knew he was gonna die RIGHT THERE?!?!? kinda weird bro, but thats just a nitpick.
I've always thought of Venom's goal as just being whatever the host wants because that way its most likely to survive because the host wont want to get rid of it
True
Yeah I thought this was kind of clear. When Peter had it he said “it makes me a better spiderman” so that was his entire goal. When back to Harry, it was about healing the world.
Yeah that lines up with the comics as well
@@jasonjones3328 yes
@@thebiggestcarl yes
For the longest time, I didn't get why Harry was mad at the Peter and Norman interaction, but I think I may have figured it out. Norman says he's grateful and proud of Peter for being there for Harry moments after Peter has snapped at Harry and refused to help him. So I think in this instance, it's not the classic father-figure resentment we've seen before, but that he's mad that Peter is (in Harry's eyes) acting like he's still helping and cares after what had just happened. What he sees is Norman thanking Peter for caring and being a good person, and it makes sense for him to be upset about that after Peter has just essentially abandoned him in his time of need and omitted that truth from Norman. I think it doesn't come across clear because it seems like Insomniac tried to frame it as a reference to the classic daddy issues dynamic when really it shouldn't have been. Just my theory!
Not just that harry heard of what peter has done throughout his years which hurted an eavesdropping harry. I don't think insomniac was going for that father and son issue path, but more like harry is hurt because he's going to die without anything that would make norman proud and harry doesn't hate peter that much because in the end they're like brothers, he even tried to recruit peter in his twisted dream of healing the world while in the black goo
It was rushed so none of that matters.
that but also, taking what we know from harry in the comics and their relationship it ultimately comes down to harry’s insecurities. outwardly this harry appears to wear his heart on his sleeve but when it comes to his bigger, core insecurities he bottles them.
it’s up to interpretation but a lot of the time harry as a character is very queer-coded and norman clearly isn’t receptive to having a more softer, emotional momma’s boy who’s kinda an artsy dork that he’s always having to coddle and protect from the outside world.
peter is incredibly intelligent and shares a lot of the same interests as norman when it comes to their love of science and with peter’s new found spider-abilities he essentially becomes the jock-like son that’s also a genius and from the outside appears to have his shit together with the house and his relationship with mj. he doesn’t have to constantly worry about and protect someone like peter and he sees him as what he could’ve had.
The Howard mission was PERFECT. God it hit me perfectly. Great choice of song while having you swing around the city and finding out he passed but is at peace. Just beautiful.
Howard didnt pass he killed himself bro
@@rurpzthey say he died of natural causes when you finish the mission. I don't think they would make Howard kill himself, even if it was peaceful that's a bit too dark for something as nuanced as this mission
@@Subpar1O1Not that you CAN'T do dark topics in a nuanced manner, I think a mission could go a similar route and still be handled well and with nuance even concerning the topic matter, but yeah, imo it was obvious that he KNEW he was going to pass away, beit purely from age or disease, and he was preparing himself to go in peace- Which happens much more often than a lot of people seem to think, people accept their mortality pretty frequently.
@@Subpar1O1nah he definitely zoinked himself
I relate to Peter so much in this Game.
I just escaped an emotionally abusive relationship with a girl I loved. She left me because she preferred me over other people and we didn’t have the same interests so she abused me. For months I was having Panic Attacks and such and a lot of people left me because of my anxiety saying it was too much for them. I have now put on a mask to hide my anxiety but this game taught me how that’s not ok. This game is what I needed.
@chandllerburse737given how MJ acted in the first game, yeah same here
@chandllerburse737Same honestly. God MJ gave me bad flashbacks to my childhood with the attitude she had in this game..
That’s exactly what Spiderman is for. Really awesome you had such a profound experience with the game
i found it weird when the dev said they found spiderman overpowered in stealth when testing and didn't want the gameplay to become repetitive. Spiderman has always been a stealth character(in games) to me. Even in animated he does way more work in the shadows than in public, the public just sees the boss battles😅
i prefer non-stealthy spidey compared to stealthy one
No just no. Spidey was never a stealthy guy. He's great at it but never is like batman
@spider-man5544 did I say I wanted another arkham? spider's stealth has always been unique and a sandbox to solve. webbing to walls or overhang takedown have existed before the arkham games did (Spider-Man movie tie in did arkham style stealth in 2002) at this point he is as much of a stealth character as the bat.
@@DudeNamedPear no...spidey does 70% of his work non-stealthy way, batman almost 100% uses stealth
@@abhinavpandey900 Batman uses shadows but he doesn't use stealth. They both use hiding and sneaking about as much as each other in the comics, the difference is that when batman isn't hiding, he wants to scare people and when spidey isn't hiding, he wants to put them at ease (except that one time he was trying to be intimidating when daredevil was threatening all the crime bosses in NYC)
For your point/confusion on Peter giving the symbiote back to Harry and creating Venom, I interpreted it as Peter having corrupted the symbiote through all of his bully shenanigans. I think another way of looking at the Host and Symbiote relationship, is that it truly is a symbiotic relationship where they can both affect each other's mental state as well as goals (so it's maybe not simply just "goo is evil"). I'm thinking that the symbiote's initial goal was to simply become stronger to help Peter, but when it gets onto Harry for the second time it shifts its goal to "healing the world" in a dark, ambitious, and power hungry way after being influenced by Peter. My reasoning that it truly wants to help its host comes from all the times it actually helps Pete and Harry. Such as when it saves Harry from a self-inflicted fall at EMF (if it was already malicious it would've let Harry go splat and jump onto the stronger host that is Peter), and the infiltration of Kraven's dinner party where it pulls the rug to save a waiter from harm (to Peter's desires). As a side note, in terms of the symbiote transformation, Peter's lust for power to become a better Spider-Man combined with Harry's resentment for his best friend is possibly the cause for why the standard symbiote suit morphs into the monstrous/hulking Venom. In a way, I kinda see the symbiote as another victim throughout this whole story, a tragic loss of innocence due to Peter not fully resolving his trauma from May's passing and his inner hatred for the criminals of NYC.
Looking back at the story now, it's kinda nice that Insomniac left enough for the symbiote to be up for interpretation and speculation (which is pretty fun to do), but I think they could've told a few more things to clear some stuff up to spare people from frustration and confusion.
insomniac really said "hey Peter you know they really cool arc you had about how you don't need extra powers to be a great Spider-Man and that your friends and connections are the help you need, yea were gonna give a new suit with all the same powers but zero drawbacks that basically just sends the message that you do need extra powers to be a better Spider-Man and that your not good enough, see you later Pete!"
I wish they gave us a boss fight with Spiderman and venom through out the city like the way they promoted
exactly it would have been cool if we had like a prelude to the final boss with miles and pete in their classic suits like in the promotional material
This also confused me. They did it so well with Lizard. Not sure why they didn’t do it for Venom.
@@speedyazi5029 I think it'd be great if WE WERE THE ONES RUNNING and we'd get kncoked into sewers, subways, etc. and he fights us in traditional bossfight style
@@speedyazi5029bc they show lizard in the trailer
@@speedyazi5029 maybe it was supposed to happen, but they decided to cut it for the MJ mission. You can even see a cutscene where Pete is getting chased by venom and it looks like it's going to transition into a playable moment, until it unfortunately switches to MJ.
They didn't really stick the landing with the whole Miles college essay story, but the vibe I got from a few of the comments he makes over the course of the game lead me to believe that Miles was going to take a gap year before starting college. Which is a nice dove tail on the "Balance" lesson that Aunt May gave Peter. Peter is balancing his life by pulling back on being Spider-Man to prioritize Emily-May stuff and having a more stable life with MJ. Miles on the other hand spends the whole game running away from doing that essay in favor of doing Spider-Man stuff showing that's where his passion is right now. Unlike Peter at that same age Miles has a support system. His mom, Uncle Aaron, Genki and Hailey all have Miles covered when he needs support so not immediately going to college is acceptable choice.
It's just nice to see how they are building kind of a family/community that helps each other out and steps up to cover each other's slack so no one feels overwhelmed with their responsibilities.
As far as the black suit design goes, I really would've preferred if it started like the black color scheme for the advanced suit, then give more breathing room where he's being normal Spider-Man but with it on, maybe during the fight with the lizard transitions into what the default design is, then changed into the more alien version later when he breaks out of the cage going into the Kraven fight so there's more of a progression as it impacts Peter's mental state more and more. As is it just all feels very sudden
that would be very spectacular spider-man of them
no we're not doing a shitty recolor for the main symbiot suit
@@odd-dev I never said it should be a recolor I said it shouldve started *like* the black color scheme. The black suit storyline doesn't work if everyone can immediately tell the suit is bad news, in the comic it looked and felt like fabric it wasn't a gooey mass until it turned into venom. If they wanted the black suit to look gooey and alien it makes no sense why Peter would be totally ok with it when it's very clearly something weird and organic like it is in the game
Yeah I don’t think Peter should’ve had the alien look when he had the symbiote, at least not right off the bat. He’s supposed to think of it as some hi-tech bio suit and later find out that it’s an alien, in my opinion they missed the point by having it look like an evil sentient alien from the get go. Personally I think they should save the goo alien look for venom and keep the sleek shiny cloth look for Spider-Man when the symbiote storyline gets portrayed In media anyways.
@@Marabcd315 The way it was explained is why it works. With Harry explaining it being an exosuit thing, which sidesteps the "problem" you have with its design
I've seen a few people say the same thing about the scene where Harry overhears Norman and Peter, it gets chalked up to something that's rushed or unreasonable, but this is the way I see it. Harry and Norman seemingly have a good relationship, but Harry hasnt really had a father in a while because hes been spending all his time trying to save him. Harry knows hes dying and though no doubt he wants to live, he also sorely misses when his father could just be his father, just spend time with him, another thing this illness has taken from Harry. And seeing Peter recieve the last bit of fatherly tenderness we see for quite some time, all the while hes still holding onto the suit was ruthless. I feel a part of Norman is beginning to lose hope, and that same part is slowly latching on to peter to fill that hole, if Harry were to die that is. I think it's a great scene that people aren't reading into enough. Can't wait to see where they take these three in the next game.
i honestly think that the whole “MJ’s murder rampage” is one of the funniest bits you’ve ever done 😂
It’s wild that he repeated it and the Aaron’s music jokes like 300 times and they were still funny
@@bullymaguire6091 exactly!
When boss fight with scream was happening mj was in full control it is symbiot who screamed for help
Maybe for Venom to get his name Peter could mention early after getting the suit how it puts him on equal footing with Miles’s crazy abilities and say something about the suit basically being his version of Miles’s “venom”, leading the symbiote to take that name later as a callback
Not really a good idea, has the same vibes as “are we some kind of suicide squad”
@@cockatoo_xxi7065 The difference is that the Suicide Squad line doesn't really do anything for the story. All it does is make a connection to the out-of-story title of the movie, so it feels somewhat unnecessary. In this case, however, a line like that would give a stronger reason for the symbiote to call itself Venom.
The pause that Deadshot takes before he does the title drop also doesn't help matters, as it makes it feel like more of a wink-wink nudge-nudge moment.
Harry's disease was named as Oshtoran Syndrome in the last game, though it seems fairly obscure and it's not clear whether the game depicts anything close to reality.
Yeah, the fact that they don’t even mention Dr. Michaels’ letter to Alchemax, or Oshtoran syndrome in dialogue, is a bit surprising.
Ok
@@CynicalSerperiorok
Ok
@@commander_in_kief real
Fun fact, when Otto says "the final chapter" the shadow from his glasses look like spider man lenses, and the superior spider man suit is the ONLY suit that's looking straight at you in the suit selection screen
Ok, I liked his performance so much that I looked up who played Kraven, and it's a guy named Jim Pirri, who, oddly enough, also voiced Salvatore Maroni in the straight-to-DVD animated movie Batman: The Long Halloween.
Bro I love that movie!
He also played Angelo Bronte in Red Dead Redemption 2.
I feel the part around 1:31:43 confuses me, and I think it's because of a single thing you forgot to mention beforehand: the meteorite. The game shows that as soon Pete got in contact with it, he begins to take a more venomized design, and starts to act completely different from earlier. Rather than simply treating the suit as a person, he was treating it as another being, which can be seen by him saying "Destroy us" and all that.
This does veer into headcanon-ish territory, but I thought that was the reason given behind why Harry becomes venom, rather than agent venom. The symbiote had remembered it's origin as an alien; a creature connected to some sort of hivemind. Perhaps due to the bonding process it had with Harry during his treatment, it ended up forgetting its original purpose. But as soon as it grabs ahold of the meteorite, it gets a flashback to how it arrived to the planet in the first place. That, to me, explicitly shows that the Symbiote now knows who it is, and that is why it ends up making Harry into Venom, rather than Agent Venom.
So, if Harry had gotten the suit before it interacted with the meteorite, it is extremely likely that it might have continued to be docile and unaware of it's original purpose. Meaning that would've been the right thing to do at that point in time.
Edit: Another comment made a good point that Peter's Rage combined with Harry's Resentment turned the symbiote into what it is now, which does make sense!
As someone who was actively procrastinating on an essay when I was playing this game, I really related to that subplot lmao
Me too!!!!!
LITERALLY SAME
Dude same I had a life changing test but I literally platinumed this game the night before and still passed somehow lol
It was a painful reminder of the grad school applications I need to do.
A common occurrence it seems.
the first game had actual comic writers help insomniac with the story
The worst part of this game is that it could've been so much better. It's a solid 8/10 but it could've easily been a 10/10
The college essay is the best part of Miles balance arc for me because I remember my admission counselor openly laughing when I said I was worried I wasn't gonna get in. She just asked why and I said "the essay".
I had like a 3.71 GPA. Miles could get into ANY school.
Even if Spiderman 2 isn't perfect for everyone, I can still say I enjoyed the absolute hell of it, and personally, I'm satisfied with the long-awaited game and everyone who worked extremely hard at Insomniac games and the cast deserves all the praise and support for possibly one of the greatest comic book videogames made. Really excited about what they give us in the future
No game is perfect.
No game will ever be perfect.
@@Spider-Man-257it’s really not
Yes
@@Spider-Man-257arkham city
They should have removed dodge indicators during the symbiote fights making you have to pay attention to attack telegraphs. Spiderman is not supposed to be able to sense venom with his spider sense. He always gets ambushed by venom for a reason. I wish they honored that part of the lore.
I agree from a lore perspective but the fact is, from a gameplay perspective, they really couldn't have gotten away with this. First of all, since you can switch between peter and miles and fight symbiotes in the open world, Miles would just be the objectively better option because he'd have spidey sense (because the reason pete can't sense the symbiote is that he bonded with it which Miles never did), and secondly the spidey sense indicators are a vital part of the combat. You wouldn't be making the combat more immersive by removing it from combat, you'd be making it less fun. No indicator of whether to parry or dodge, no idea if an enemy you can't see is coming for you, etc
Like, it'd be possible to rework the current system into a system that would work without spidey sense, but it'd require a fundamental redesign of the combat and make you relearn it like 2/3rds of the way through the game
@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 it would just require paying attention to the attack telegraphs the arkham games have hard modes that remove the counter icon you have to pay attention yourself to counter enemies. But I hear you the play space is a little to chaotic for it to work compared to arkham combat it might even end being more rage enduring than a souls game
That running joke of Killer MJ got me every time, especially the first time it happened during The Final Mission section
2:05:40
In defence of MJ, she's only just entered rehab for her compulsive "strap em down/tag and bag" killing spree so she's not going to be in the right frame of mind to think rationally about new hobbies.
I really liked the cinematography of the game and the way shots are put together is *Chef's Kiss*. It is barely noticeable, but at 1:26:52 when Venom fully takes over Harry and the camera is panned behind Peter it looks like it being panned in a way like when a boss fight begins, but when Norman comes into the shot to tell Peter to not hurt Harry is amazing cinematography. It is not noticeable to some, but play that particular mission again and see it for yourselves. It is a good subversion of expectation when you think you are about to fight Venom and your childhood best friend, but it cements that Harry is still within the suit when Norman steps into frame to remind us that our best friend who is dying is still in that suit of goop. I love the great Cinematography and storytelling of Spiderman 2 and I cannot wait for what is next for Insomniac Games in the future.
barely noticeable? that was the intention of the devs brother
That's facts, I legit thought Pete and Venom were gonna scrap right there when I first played the game 😂
1:57:00 Minor detail in a LONG video detailing an ENTIRE game so all is forgiven - but during the mission where you go into Pete's mind to cure him and ultimately give him the Anti-Venom suit they quite literally explain explicitly that the suit was bonded to him long enough that it's engrained itself into Pete's DNA, which is backed in legacy canon of the Venom character as being a part of his "codex" and is backed in game by it being explained to have bonded to Harry in the same way, on a molecular level to Harry's DNA causing his genetic disorder to be curable by the symbiote. So more or less your "guess" you gave about ten second later is pretty much spot on. Excellent work!
Love this take on the "Peter was nerfed" thing. I think something that epitomises spider man's character is his ability to lose again and again and be able to get back up
dude i cant get over how when peter says run to mj it sounds just like zoom from the flash show
Norman was the best part of this game. It has me really excited to see him become the Goblin, with his love and respect for Peter, yet despises Spiderman blaming him for Harrys coma at the end of the game.
yeah I agree, I like how hes a distressed father willing to do anything to save his son, we got some elements of that bond in Raimi Spiderman 1 and how Harry carries his fathers' legacy, but I feel that here in this game is kinda one sided I wish we got more scenes with Harry and Norman
Peter’s line during the Miles fight: “I’m the hero, I don’t get saved” is such a great and tragic way to reframe the symbiote arc and how Peter’s failing isn’t falling for the suit, it’s doubting himself compared to his peers/mentees.
I have to believe a lot of the unexplained Venom stuff will be explored in a hypothetical Venom game
Imma be real honest when it came to the depiction of may’s dirty house, I think thats the best way to depiction of it, its the grief and misery he is going through in the game. But I saw this process when my grandma died, the house was filthy because so much of my grandmas stuff wasnt moved or even cleaned out, it was like she was still there like the house was trapped in the moment before she died. Just like mays house which i found really heart warming
1:49:00 - The Studio wanted the game out, so they scrapped 70% of Tony Todd's lines, a section of the game where Miles gets the symbiote, among other things. They were rushed so much they literally told us that they were worried they wouldn;'t be able to make a satisfying final half of the game. YAY STUDIO INTERFERENCE!
1:16:18 To explain, I think it's because Peter just yelled and insulted MJ and Harry and is being selfish with the suit and in general so when he then gets complimented from Osborn, it just angers him, especially since as far as Harry knows, Pete is hogging the one thing that can save him.
I feel like something people don't mention whenever they say that this game was too short is the amount of busy work that Insomniac cut out.
To 100% Spider-Man 1 (ignoring the main story missions) you have to do collect 55 Backpacks, 16 Side Missions, 47 Landmark Photos, 6 Fisk Hideouts with 6 waves each, 5 Demon Warehouses with 6 waves each, 4 Sable Outposts with 6 waves each, 4 Prisoner Camps with 6 waves each, 17 Research Stations, 11 Black Cat Stakeouts, 12 Pigeons, 16 Taskmaster Challenges, 45, Thug Crimes, 40 Demon Crimes, 40 Prisoner Crimes, and 40 Sable Crimes.
A lot of these things, especially the 165 random crimes you have to do, definitely inflate the overall time it takes to 100% complete the game.
Comparatively, to 100% Spider-Man 2 (again ignoring the main story missions) you need to do 14 Marko’s Memories, 23 Photo Ops, 6 FNSM Request, 10 Prowler Stashes, 4 The Flame Side Missions, 5 Brooklyn Visions Side Missions, 9 EMF Experiments, 43 Spider-Bots, 10 Mysteriums, 2 Cultural Museum Missions, 11 Hunter Blinds, 4 Hunter Bases, 9 Unidentified Target challenges, and 9 Symbiote nests.
It is overall less stuff that you need to do, but I’d argue that a lot of them are of higher quality.
Yes! I think the main story/sidequest pacing is much better in this than in the original (which kinda cancels itself out because the story pacing isnt as good as in 1)
Yeah I’d agree! Although I do wish we had more stuff like backpacks because I loved the flashback stuff so much and I think the backpacks could have assisted some flashback scenes and filled in the gaps. Like backpacks relating to the Lizard and some of the older villains that we see in the game and maybe provide some extra content for the villains that Kraven killed to make it feel less sudden?
That's the literal difference in a game that has been in development for 5+ years compared to one in development for 3.
I'd say the problem is that the first one has much better side missions than the second one. Why? Not only were they better linked to the main story, they were much more fun.
They put a bunch of stuff that don't really matter at all. What's the point of helping the rich kids at Brooklyn Visions? Really? Going to a museum? So much more could've been done and better, give Scorpion, Mysterio, Sandman, Prowler, Mr. Negative, Tombstone and Black Cat more, don't just throw some "oh this happened" or "oh so they're fine".
There's no conflict, no consequence, no point. It's like someone told developers to make up "mature and adult content" and this is what they managed to think of.
I’d agree with the robot dog and howard mission, but all the woke missions were just very uncessary, but over i feel like side missions felt the exact same, the flame lore was nice alonf with chameleon easter egg, but i feel they couldve done more intresting side missions like the arkham games do (riddler-like challenges suck in both games)
I remember getting the spider cube and thinking it was the funniest bug ever. Just seeing enemies getting pushed back by the invisible venom punch was too much. I have some clips saved before my game crashed
I have to say, the Anti-Venom Suit actually makes sense with the "Addiction" allegory. The suit represents gaining a healthier relationship with the thing you once were addicted to. "The voices are gone, but the power is still there" shows that you can get drunk from time to time but your need for more isn't there anymore (I uses alcoholism as an example). So yeah, Anti-Venom actually makes much more sense.
I love taking the classic "being spiderman is a sacrifice and a burden" narrative being combined with the "anyone can out on the mask" narrative to create a situation for peter to genuinely rest and for things to not go to hell. His actions inspired miles and because of that peter is able to take time to himself and i think thats beautiful.
The subtext around how the symbiote works totally clicked with me on the first playthrough. The symbiote has always wanted to take over the world, it just needed someone with enough pain and anger to unleash its true form. Harry wasn't as pained as Peter was, and the symbiote could sense all of it on Peter. His anxiety around protecting the people he loves, his guilt around losing May despite doing the right thing. So when the symbiote gets the chance to take advantage of Peter, it gets to work. It was so close to success. Kraven was always looking to unleash the beast. If Peter had killed Kraven and Miles, that would have been enough to fully take Peter over and become Venom. But Peter has a friend in Miles who was able to anchor him and pull him out. Harry, due to Peter having the symbiote, lacked that anchor of friendship. Harry began to resent Peter. So when the symbiote is returned, only now does Harry have enough anger to let Venom take him.
This actually a good take
See I always took the symbiote as an almost childlike entity that responds to the emotions of those around it. Osborn was it's first host and he just wanted Harry to heal. The symbiote responded to this and did just that! It healed Harry and once it bonded with him it helped him stay healthy. When Harry learned about a Peters identity as Spider-Man Harry's desire shifted to being "like spider man" the symbiote even reaches out to Peter as a sign of this desire. Agent Venom also comes from this desire to be like Peter and it even gives Harry the emblem. The suit only ever truly leaves Harry when his desire shifts to healing Peter after the knife wound.
Now that its bonded with Peter whooooooo boy it breaks the poor aliens mind. Peter is a MESS. Peters desires are complicated and rough and messy. Peter is feeling his age and stress, the symbiote responds by making him stronger and by fighting even when Peter sleeps. Its being corrupted by peters anger and stress and becomes more and more violent and feral. It also still senses his desire to help people, but it's being corrupted by the rest of peters warped desires. I also think it's why Peter was unable to give it back to Harry originally. Peter knew that he SHOULD give the suit back, but deep down he didn't WANT to give the suit back. When it eventually rejoins with Harry the suit has been essentially brain broken by living in peters head for so long. Couple that with Harry's new feelings of resentment and anger towards Peter and Harry's desire to save the world and you have the recipe for disaster we see in the final act.
The one thing I really wish we would have gotten is returning villains post game.
I think it would have been really cool to be swinging around, and suddenly you get a notification on your app that Lizard, Sandman, or some other boss character is rampaging somewhere in the city, and you basically play an amped up version of their boss fight. Maybe each encounter getting progressively harder.
Lizard and Sandman are reformed. And everyone else is dead or left New York.
@ungusbungus2486 Yeah but if you beat the story, you learn the post game isn't canon. So they could have brought any/all villains back that they wanted to.
I'm sure you're making a lot of excellent, nuanced and well-thought out points here, but I've been watching this for an hour and I can't stop thinking about how nice your hair looks
I think the symbiote instead of just simply making the host evil, it takes the host desires and twists it to fit it's own way of doing things. Which further backs it up by Peter wanting to be a better Spider-Man and Harry wanting to heal the world with Peter.
I haven't finished watching the video yet, but yes I would LOVE to see you cover Ben 10 on the channel, either as a retrospective or a rewrite would be amazing. (Also this video is pretty good, I've been loving it so far)
(SC: I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos.) Unironically though, I loved the review, it was awesome
Si hace una reescritura debe ser la saga de agregor tanto potencial desperdiciado
same
i dunno i think the anti-venom suit could've meant "you think that whatever you're addicted to makes you stronger, but that isn't good for you and you don't need that to be stronger. if you wanna be stronger, you need a healthy support system and relationships"
the anti-venom suit was forged by mister negative's redemption and second chances, and miles comforting peter in his time of need
I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you're so cool and I watch all your videos.
Fully agree
1:16:05 Harry is angry with his father here because his father was praising someone who just presented himself as someone selfish and would let Harry die to keep the suit.
Watching this now knowing there’s a near zero % chance we get more dlc is so depressing
After beating the game, my current favorite thing to do and basically all I do in the game now is just open it up, go to the water between the two halves of the map, turn on super point launches, and then just glide and point launch off of boats, you get some EXTREME speed, and then you can swing under the bridges or even catch the wind currents
To be honest, I liked Spider-Man’s relationship to the police in the first game. Making friends in the force to connect him to more official sources (kind of like Batman, now that I think about it) was neat for a veteran Spidey. Plus, it feels like in this game he just beats up criminals and leaves, no police to arrest them or anything.
I understand the police are controversial at the moment, with a spotlight being shone on their problems, but I don’t think illegal vigilantism is the morally superior option.
26:18 I thought there was gonna be some plot point about Harry clinging to the past, and Peter having to move forward (hence the bikes). And I think maybe they were gonna do that. Like with Peter getting past the symbiote and Harry going back to it or, heck, the final battle takes place at their high school. But then they just didn’t do that. It makes me wonder if it got cut, because I’m pretty sure Yuri Lowenthal said he recorded hundreds of lines that didn’t end up in the game (don’t quote me on that) so I guess it could’ve been cut.
29:27 I feel like Miles had not enough to do in the first half and then too much to do in the second half. Like I wish the Martin Li stuff was better spread out, maybe give him something to do with Uncle Aaron or make the museum robbery side quest a bigger part of the story. Like anything to give him something to do other than just sort of exist.
42:25 Cute how Tombstone was reformed, wish there was more of that. Maybe a Tombstone side mission where you take down some of his old thugs.
Also: “I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy you’re so cool and I watch all your videos.”
Isn't harry's reason on emf is a tribute to his mom and make her words to a reality and its evident when miles had a phone call from harry im pretty he sure he clings on it by a lot its just subtle
I agree the only think i can complain about is the how martin li story was paced but even then i think its all good
There is like mysterio and you have to deal with mysterium challenges where you fight a younger more narcissistic self of mysterio
most of the story is from sweet baby inc a ESG company outsourced for narrative and character writing
the simple answer is just didn't bother, they didn't care
2:18:23 I feel like the symbiot in this game is the personification of anger. We have all felt pure anger in our lives to the point where it makes us say some horrible things and that’s what makes the symbiot more powerful. I think when the symbiot covers its host it hightens this emotion (feeding off of it) causing them to let loose and not hold back. So when they are freed they feel relieved not just from the symbiot but that horrible feeling of hatred. This also explains why harry doesn’t seem to be acting out of place when he first has the symbiot as he doesn’t really have anything that he truly hates in life. However Peter has a lot of built up trauma and people he blames (mainly himself) that that anger just comes straight out and is preyed upon. This is where the symbiot sees a way to accomplish its goal and why venom never really gives up on the idea of Peter joining him to complete his mission. Great video as always!
The tension between Harry and his dad is meant to come from Norman being yes, loving, but also a bit controlling. He doesn't respect Harry's wishes to tell his friends, he inserts himself into his projects, and the Hostile Takeover novel which goes more into it reveals that he did things like hire people to spy on Harry when he was out.
I think there's also tension around the way they both treat Harry's illness. Harry is ashamed of it but his way of dealing with it seems to be trying to not dwell on it and establish himself out side of his condition. Meanwhile Norman is entirely fixated on curing it, which kind of reinforces it as something Harry should be ashamed of while defining him by it.
Ergo being rejected by the symbiote for Peter's strength (and health) and then seeing Norman treating Peter like a son kind builds up the anxiety that he's worth less because of his illness and that everyone sees him as a burden.
I do think they could have done more to show it, maybe have that connection between Harry and the symbiote be the feeling of rejection and to prove themselves worthy.
I also wasn't really clear if Harry knew of the entire situation with Lee and then the Devil's Breath. It feels like it finding out the extent of what Norman did to save him, while entirely undermining Harry's own dreams and values in the process, would be a good sticking point between them.
The symbiote in this story is different through many reasons, instead of feeding on negative emotions, it instead feeds on the hosts thoughts and manipulates them, it manipulated Peter's thoughts of being a good Spider-Man to the point that Peter felt like he needed the symbiote to be a good Spider-Man and it also manipulated Harry's thoughts which was to heal the world, it manipulated him into allowing the city to be overrun by symbiotes.
In a SM game where you have side missions involving Carnage, Chameleon and the broader Spider-Verse, making down-to-earth side content as good as the Grandpa Earl and Howard missions (which are my favorite ones) really says a lot about the creative team behind this game, and how much they care and understand Spider-Man.
Yeah but then they made useless content such as mj missions the hailey mission and the Brooklyn visions side quests like bruh the grandpa earl and Howard missions were great, but man I wish I played more of venom 😂
Imagine Peter as a teacher with thr symbiote💀
A Ben 10 video is in the cards?! YES PLEASE!
From the implications I read from the game (maybe this is just a head cannon at this point to justify Agent Venom idk) with how Harry was with the suit, being perky and brave I think that the symbiote just amplifies and retains the emotions of it’s wearer whilst still having its own. For example: Peter angry, that make symbiote angry. Peter abandoned symbiote and Harry, that make venom angry and add Peter angry on to that.
I would love to see some Ben 10 content like you mentioned in the vid. I also found the continuous gags with Aaron's terrible beat and MJ's bloodlust really funny. Keep it up 💪
19:03 Not finished the video yet, so I’m sorry if this is brought up later but I really didn’t like either Jameson’s or Danika’s portrayal in this game specifically. They portray them as the designated “Point and laugh at how wrong” and “Sit and ponder how infallibly right” characters respectively and it not only lessons Jameson as a character but treats Danika as somehow omniscient. I liked her in Miles Morales as more of a representative of the community’s thoughts and feelings, but here she just regurgitates the story we’re actively watching unfold and somehow knows/predicts plot points and events that only the player would know?
I cried a lot when howard died, it felt like losing someone I knew personally. I had to take a break from playing after that mission.
Excellent review, Troy! You articulate your points really well while seeming fair and reasonable! I also really enjoyed the game, but had some issues- I feel like it could have been cool if maybe Miles got a bit of the symbiote, especially with his revenge arc for Li.
Keep up the amazing work by making great reviews and always sticking up for what is right! I would love to see Ben 10 content as well, especially a Live Action Prewrite movie
Also, I loved this review, thank you for making it. Troy your'e so cool and I watch all your videos
I agree entirely with your swinging settings. 10 feels too slow but when it's on 0, hitting the floor so often is just really frustrating. Keeping me off the ground but still requiring effort to keep going feels so good, and you can even still hit the ground if you're really not trying. 1 is my favorite swing assist
I always have the swing assist setting set to 2 or 3
Black Cat's "girlfriend" is the Mona Lisa lmao
She's gonna be makin that bag in Paris!
actually, for a game about second chances, I'm willing to give black cat the benefit of the doubt.
1:51:12 Miles has the same ability in his game with the programmable matter suit
he probably knows he was going over some little cool details
19:35 It reminds me of Venom Let There Be Carnage teasing Sony’s Venom having a confrontation with MCU Spider-Man, only to spend all of his time in the MCU learning about the history and getting sent back as soon as he was going to go meet him.
I love this game a lot, my only complaints are not having enough time with the Black suit and not enough time with Venom, if they added onto the 3rd act and made it feel not as rushed, I think this could've been one of the greatest games ever made.
Edit: spelling
basically everything perfect up until Kraven dies
My viewpoint of the symbiote in this game is that it takes the innermost desires of the host and unintentionally twists and corrupts them, seeing them from a simple animalistic view. Peter wants to he a better Spider-Man, so hes twisted into being cruel and brutal. Harry wants to "heal the world", which is already a pretty vague statement, and corrupts it into "healing" all weaknesses and imperfections, ie make it like the symbiote. But thats just how I thought the story was portraying it. Kinda plays into the themes of mental health and how your desires can be used against you.
Use this comment as a Ben 10 video like button
Heat blast!
1:01:25 ... its almost as if someone should've told Mr. Osborne that he lost the suit... maybe then he could've said " Oh I sent a piece off" and get the piece back. Or you could say the train coming back was because he sent for it to get the other symbiote piece to save Harry? And Cletus just hijacked it?
I'd like if he didn't have them at first, to make him feel weaker. He gets the symbiote, and feels stronger, like a better spidey. After, he's got some darkness, but he uses Otto's tech, to remind himself that he can build from mistakes. Like the theme of the game, second chances.
"This is what you wanted" is simply in reference to Norman wanting Harry to not die, and now he wont die. I think trying to take it as Harry living up to Norman's (nonexistent) pressure on Harry is reaching a little too far.
For me the differences with this venom subverted my expectations in a kool way. I did get the sense also that Harry was involved and that the Symbiote had an emotional element to it like it became invested in the dynamics of the broken friendship by being bonded to Peter and Harry, but was still obviously driven by its alien Instinct which gave it a Cosmic horror vibe and made thier story more tragic for me
Also I believe it was implied that Conners was helping keep the Symbiote suppressed and obedient so Harry could have actually lived I think
One thing is that they oversteered way too hard on the police removal thing. The entire story has one instance of the police getting involved and it’s for a brief moment as a helicopter during the lizard chase.
Especially when it comes to the hunters the police are blind to it. The hunters attack a prison transport ship, occupy a neighborhood, and attack a research center and there is no response.
💯
I would love it if you made a Ben 10 video! I don't know a lot about the franchise, so I would love an introduction
Damn you've never seen Ben 10, Ben 10 alien force, ultimate alien or omniverse?
Being 100%, I would’ve preferred this game be delayed so we could get a more fleshed out story. I really loved the game but how they showed Peter with the symbiote was not that great. I really wanted to see the “Addiction” part a lot more.
Nah, the symbiote here is a neutral amoral organism that is corrupted by the users, not just some evil goop, the stressful situations the characters passed through the story are the things that create Venom, not backwards, and I love this way of adapting it, the motivation of the symbiote are the motivations of the characters that wore it, it's like a pet, it just wanted to help.
So I have never played a Spider-Man game... or even watched someone play a through one, and I absolutely loved this video. I genuinely appreciated the effort put in to point out the little details, which is what I think makes a story so well done. I love that fact all the plot points where laid out so well, nothing felt like it was underexplained or reiterated too many time (yes even the 'second chances' part - seeing as it was the biggest theme of the game).
Just an all round great video, thank you making it :)
The thing a lot of people miss in this game is venoms reasons for doing what he does ge doesnt want to be alone every thing he does is built on thought like when he begged peter to join him
If he makes the whole world like he wont be alone at least thats the way i took all of it
Never thought about it until you brought it up at 26:18, but I think the "thematic significance" of the bike is that not everything is what it seems to be.
Harry isn't better, he's about to be puppeted by an alien.
The suit doesn't make Peter a better Spider-Man because he's abandoning the very principles that made him Spider-Man in the first place.
I'm sure there are a few more, but this seems to be a big theme in this game.
i swear to god if the third game has some final mission suit imma be so pissed. If we're fighting green goblin(spider-man's MOST iconic villain), in ANYTHING other than the classic suit i will be so disappointed because this kind of set piece deserves to be untouched.
I don’t think I see any comments on it but the reason that fire isn’t really that much of a weakness for Venom is because there’s so many situations and sequences during the game where he’s around fire so rather than try and work around that they just flat out gave him immunity to fire.
See I always took the symbiote as an almost childlike entity that responds to the emotions of those around it. Osborn was it's first host and he just wanted Harry to heal. The symbiote responded to this and did just that! It healed Harry and once it bonded with him it helped him stay healthy. When Harry learned about a Peters identity as Spider-Man Harry's desire shifted to being "like spider man" the symbiote even reaches out to Peter as a sign of this desire. Agent Venom also comes from this desire to be like Peter and it even gives Harry the emblem. The suit only ever truly leaves Harry when his desire shifts to healing Peter after the knife wound.
Now that its bonded with Peter whooooooo boy it breaks the poor aliens mind. Peter is a MESS. Peters desires are complicated and rough and messy. Peter is feeling his age and stress, the symbiote responds by making him stronger and by fighting even when Peter sleeps. Its being corrupted by peters anger and stress and becomes more and more violent and feral. It also still senses his desire to help people, but it's being corrupted by the rest of peters warped desires. I also think it's why Peter was unable to give it back to Harry originally. Peter knew that he SHOULD give the suit back, but deep down he didn't WANT to give the suit back. When it eventually rejoins with Harry the suit has been essentially brain broken by living in peters head for so long. Couple that with Harry's new feelings of resentment and anger towards Peter and Harry's desire to save the world and you have the recipe for disaster we see in the final act.
1:23:06 i agree 100% with you. The game needed more explanation on symbiote and antivenom in general.. it was so rushed we didn't get connors to even acknowledge the antivenom lol
53:40 ✊🏼
From what i've understood it was because of Harry's anger and betrayal that he felt when Peter after all that time would still not give him his only cure -basically killing him- that he finally changed into Venom and not into his normal agent venom symbiote suit. Maybe he also got that angry because there was probably symbiote left in him just like Peter. If Peter almost reverted that quickly when he just had the symbiote for a few days, imagine how it would be for Harry when he was in contact with the symbiote for that long. But yeah I can see why you didn't like the decision they made on making every symbiote evil, they probs did that so they wouldnt get complains from people who think hes just a spiderman villain and only want to see him in that way
I think this might be related to what was up with Carnage in the comics. The Carnage symbiote is destroyed early on, but before that it modified Kasady's blood to generate copies of it. So this kind of more permanent bond thing is definitely not unheard of for symbiotes.
I assume the Carnage DLC will have the Anti-Venom suit purged somehow though, completely cleansed from his system. Maybe as part of a process to destroy the Carnage symbiote. But that's just speculation.
1:16:08 I think the game was trying to convey that Harry was angry, not because of the usual toxic father son dynamic, but because we have Norman praising Peter for being a good friend when Harry and the player knows the exact opposite is true as shown in the previous scene before it. Peter is becoming less invested in helping Harry and is on the line (if not already) actively killing him and Harry can't just explain that to his father. Peter gets to be presented as the good best friend when it's the furthest thing from the truth.
This game is personally in my top 3 stories in games, with the 2018 god of war and Titanfall 2 being the others. I love this interpretation of Venom and Kraven, and while the black suit part could’ve been a BIT longer, the gameplay absolutely made up for it. My favourite suits to use were the default ones (the new advanced suit is insanely awesome) and the superior for Peter and atsv suit for miles. All in all 10/10 game imo
1:09 Yes… *YESSSSSS!!!* This is EXACTLY why I love you as a content creator, Troyo. Not in one crazy extreme camp, but in the middle-Being able to enjoy a work of fiction while still being able to critique it.
You don’t know how many times there’s been a ‘reviewer’ on a game that is either a rage-rant or just completely blind with praise, so (although the title, length, and thumbnail scared me a bit) it’s good to see that you’re still keeping that great aspect. 👍👍👍