Spider-Man 2 Has A Complicated Story
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- A story analysis and critique of Marvel's Spider-Man 2. Going into character arcs, themes, parallels, and antagonists
Intro - 00:00
Peter Pt1 - 01:41
Miles - 20:23
MJ - 44:44
Second Chances - 54:04
Wrapping up Peter - 1:12:00
Uncle Terry - 1:19:48
Kraven - 1:48:28
Other Criticism - 1:52:30
Conclusion - 1:53:58
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also something i wanna add is that when he first gets the symbiote hes joking around a LOT. i think its because the symbiote is slowly digging deeper in peters mind, and since hes humor is kind of the surface level of his personality thats what the symbiote amplifies first and then when it gets deeper it amplifies his trauma because thats deeper inside him
Yeah
It's inconsistent. When he first gets the symbiote the first thing he says, is guess your boss needs better aim, and starts aggressively insulting the hunters, but then after that he immediately goes back to normal Peter
@@mrmelonman2893It’s not inconsistent, it only happened once and that’s just game dialogues meant to sound cool and exemplify what the Symbiote will do to Peter, Peter manages to get a grip after he beats the Hunters and gets back to Harry and MJ.
@@striker07927 that's what I was gonna say because your in symbiote surge in that sequence as well which usually shows him loosing control
@@striker07927Not to mention, Peter was pissed in the moment. Once the moment passes, he reverts to his older self.
Bro makes the dopest edit of the game and act like we ain’t going notice.
Facts!
I got goosebumps from the Symbiote spiderman and miles fight edit with Peter vs Doc Ock
There's another criticism that you forgot to put out: the fact that the game didn't include the best Spider-Man villain of all time: the wall.
True him and Big Wheel
@@C0LIN.At least big wheel was mentioned
If 3 doesn’t put him or Big Wheel in, I say we riot, lmao
Very true. Insomniac never included the wall spiderman couldn’t crawl.
@@C0LIN. Bruh, even fricking Spider-Man: Mysterio Menace featured Big Wheel!
14:43 Everybody gangsta until Peter starts talking about himself in plurals
Real
He did it like once.
@@jsmxke7058he does it multiple times throughout the game. It just isn't obvious
@@jsmxke7058in his boss fight, if you try to go invisible, he says "WE CAN STILL SEE YOU!"
@@mr.r5261 when the lizard escapes Peter says "he got away from Us" before miles even got into scene. And miles thinks he is referring to him. But it's pretty clear Peter didn't even acknowledge miles' presence there until he speaks later
ima be honest my only problem with Spider-Man 2 is that it was to short, we didn't get enough. Like bro 300 mil for 15 hrs is crazy giive me more pls. btw it does have the best traversal of all time.
I feel like half the budget went to that live service Spider-Man game
@@Dachin55555the one that got canned 💀
@@onesaucynougat7471 Yes
The game is like 30 hours long
Trust me it’s not too short. Especially since people are failing to remember key parts of the story. It’s actually hilarious how many people don’t understand the story and just say it’s bad because they don’t get it.
I love that Peter’s arc in the first game is him learning to accept help. That he needs to accept help to share the responsibility with. That’s what miles and his relationship with MJ is. This game is the 5 stages of grief of that and Aunt May. At the beginning he is in Denial that he is having a problem. The black suit represents his anger towards the fact that he needs people to help him. He thinks the suit can replace miles and MJ so they won’t be in danger. But he grows an addiction. The fight with miles is Bargaining. Then he is in depression as we see when he gets Anti Venom. And him giving all the responsibility to miles is acceptance.
Exactly
I think you got the stages wrong Buddy.
You sure? Even so often the order of stages is different.
Hopefully there’s a big consequence and reminder that he can’t look the other way.
This reminds me of the clone saga when Spider-Man believed he was the clone and Ben Riley took over.
That ended in Ben’s death and Spider-Man learned once again that
“with great power there must also come great responsibility”
Which means if he can, he must.
Which is why true retirement is out of the question for Spider-Man.
As long as he has the power he has the responsibility to use his power for the good of others “no matter what the cost.”
I hope Goblin comes in and either kills Miles or severally injures him so Spider-Man once again remembers the importance of his code and why he can’t look the other way. Not even if someone else “got this”
For Spider-Man it’s not about the job getting done.
It’s about the job getting done by HIM.
I really hope they bring that integral part of Spider-Man’s character back in his third game.
Its the cornerstone of who he is.
It’s what makes him stand out from every other hero.
@@jbstudios3000 Miles is spider man too... He follows the same code as Peter. Miles shouldn't need to die so Peter can shine. They're both heroes and sharing the spotlight/working together IS responsibility.
You gotta accept Miles is spider man as much as Peter is
The worst, most obviously annoying addition to the story is the Danicast. She literally just spells out everything that is going on for some reason. I genuinely think the story is pretty great as its own thing, but she went from kind of a fun neat addition that showed more of Mile's community to just telling us the plot that just happened.
Yea, honestly I found her annoying in Miles’s game too.
JJ’s better to me because he’s entertaining, even if he’s biased against Spider-Man and a lot of his takes are wrong.
I think they made her too correct and Jonah too stupid. Jonah is just a self contradicting parody of a right winged talk show person which is weird cause in the first game he did make genuine points such as when he called out Norman Osborn and Sable International. He was correct on the power vacuum and gang war albeit pinned it on Spider-Man too much but one thing is clear, he does care for New York and can make good points he just has a bad way of showing it. Danicast felt like a nice character in Miles Morales to as you said show more of Miles community and be the less blunt Jonah. Here as you said with Dani she’s just spelling out the obvious and is right on everything, kind of hard to find her podcast engaging when you just think “yea yea I know”. With Jonah I turned his podcast off cause he’s just an idiot who clearly cares more for clicks than the truth.
My problem with the Scream fight is that she’s not really held accountable for the things she said. Now, I’m not saying Peter should’ve held it over her head or something, but the second Peter got the suit off, he apologized for everything he did, but this feels more like her aggressively pointing out Peter’s flaws and having him apologize for everything, it would’ve been nice if she at least tried to apologize for what she said and have Peter say it’s fine, because he understands what the symbiote does.
Didn't she though? It's been a hot minute since I played that boss fight but didn't MJ say that she was sorry or that she didn't mean it, to which Peter replied, "It wasn't you. And I - wasn't me, earlier."
I just re-watched the scene. She apologized for that destruction she had caused, not so much for the things she had said. I remember now.
Not only that when it’s Peter your fighting with the suit on Miles is fighting the things he’s saying whilst with mj Peter just agrees and apologizes for everything including things that aren’t true or heavily twisted.
You may have a problem w/ how MJ was handled as Scream, and your reasons are great, but I gotta tell you, as a 40+ year old married, parent: this is representative of real life.
It took me quite awhile to learn that a person is not their feelings or their thoughts. The problem is that we give too much or the wrong kind of power to those feelings. Feelings should be validated, because they’re real, but they can also (often) be based on incomplete info, a person’s environment/upbringing, and/or falsehoods. How you act on your thoughts/feelings is what defines you to others, not what’s inside your head that we don’t have access to.
The point is: MJ had some negative feelings about Peter, that were real for her & based on her understanding of his actions, but she didn’t share those & still acted as a loving person. No one needs to be held accountable for their feelings & no one can be held accountable for things they do or say while possessed by an alien. She doesn’t need to say “I’m sorry” & Peter knows that.
Now Peter, on the other hand, is super apologetic, but if you pay attention, he’s that way BEFORE even getting the symbiote (Coney Island, can’t hold the rollercoaster, etc.). No one else needs Peter to say he’s sorry as much as he needs himself to say sorry. He’s not doing it because he’s a better person than MJ, he’s doing it because he has low self-esteem. That sort of constant apologizing can be damaging to relationships because people start to hear your sorry so much, they don’t care.
@@APrime25 i see, I didn’t mean to say her not apologizing made her worse, but that it was just something I noticed that bugged me. But I wasn’t thinking of all the angles and I appreciate you sharing this perspective, thank you
Miles rocking the Killmonger cut is character assassination. No sane person rocks that shit unironically 😭
Fr. The game might have to be non-canon just because of that cut
it’s just hair bro, not that deep
yall are weird. i liked the haircut. it looked good on miles imo lmao
My friend rocks that shit and it looks good on him. Nothing wrong with a haircut
@@TheoneShadow2728Your boy has zero drip
44:48 Agreed. The Fridge is Peter’s Arch Nemesis. It’s been the main villain of this Spider-Man Insomniac series. Hopefully in the 3rd game, Peter can finally beat it.
Well yeah, the fridge is the cousin of The Wall
And if the fridge got wheels, it would be the Big Wheel-Wall hybrid.
Guys i think Green Goblin will steal Peter’s fridge and he’s gonna get angry and kill him
@@Dachin55555 The fridge contains and preserves pumpkin bombs.
The fridge solos all of the insomniverse (insomniac universe)
42:42 ngl bro adding Otto here with the voice acting on top of that actually made me tear up 💀💀
same
biggest gut punch
Man SM2 was so beautifully written too bad the discussion are exhausted with toxic BG3 fans
Despite the issues that the game has in terms of story writing and character arcs, Spider-Man 2 is still an enjoyable game and I'm grateful for all the hard work Insomniac has put into it. :)
Not worth £60 though
@@IsiahM you do realize that going off of inflation and how much games were around 2006 games should be roughly 90 usd now right? I get wages aren't matching inflation but still
@@josanchez1536 I didn't say anything about inflation or previous games? This game is worth £40 not 60
@@IsiahM I mean if that's your opinion that's your opinion. But Considering we happily payed 60 usd back in 2006 for games of a similar caliber. Id happily pay 70 dollars for this game. Still cheaper in purchasing power wise.
@@josanchez1536 £70 for 40 hours of gameplay is just not OK to me, maybe £70 is worth less to you than it is to me 🤷🏾♂️.
as someone whos tried defending this game so fucking much its refreshing to see this thank the fucking lord
41:46 This sequence is genuinely amazing, it shows how Peter changed over the course of both games and how he parallels from the previous game. Something I didn't notice, Good Stuff. 👍
Sadly I feel like everyone doesn’t understand the story the way it is or like this video is because they were rushing through the game & tryna beat it first day instead of digesting everything & actually take their time to actually play it.
I just felt it was a little less memorable and I 100% didn’t rush it. I beat it in 37 hours cuz I loved the traversal so much
@architdewan6717 yeah no my thoughts exactly, it's good, but spider-man ps4 has more impact
@@nosauce7410 honestly I think the main reason is the first game was mostly about Peter and his way as Spider-Man. This game is about Peter, Miles, Harry in the same time frame of the first game. Too much stuff and less time to give it justice too
@@architdewan6717nah. AUNT MAY made Spider-Man 1. That's why it was successful 😅😂
I deleted it when I saw Peter get killed within 3 seconds of meeting Kraven.
its just sad to see people cant actually contain enough media literacy and just understand the story. peter is suffering not because he's physically weak, but because he's mentally and emotionally broken after aunt may's death, even the crossover with 616 peter deliberately stated where insom peter is going through.
Fyi that crossover isn’t canon
@@C0LIN. Darn it, it was so good Thou
The fact that u mentioned that crossover shows ur opinion is invalid. That crossover isn't even cannon. The problem with the suffering aspect is we never see it fully shown and developed, until a good hour or two after the black suit arc has ended. Anything before miles goes into his mind is just tiny details that don't tell us anything besides Peter misses may a bit Which is obvious. They handled this with miles way better as we see throughout the game his grief, with him visiting his father's grave, talks about his father to Harry to relate to him, and more, as well as his overall hatred for Lee, which all culminate in the Lee dream sequence in the mister negative boss fight, and then getting a resolution when miles goes in Peter's head. Peter never gets that attention with his storyline of grieving mays death, which makes no sense as he has the majority of the run time 💀
@@mrmelonman2893 U literally missed the entire point, the point is that Peter is repressing these emotions. And those little details show us that, and the black suit arc shows those repressed emotions coming out. People handle grief differently………
@C0LIN. Him repressing his emotions isn't the problem, it's the execution. He doesn't talk about these things or at least give more details throughout the story. They could have made it so he represses his emotions around others, but by himself his demeanor and thinking process changes. Also in retrospect, he doesn't have a good enough reason to think he's not a good spiderman, even though miles seems to be better( which makes no sense to be honest) because up until he gets the symbiote, he never fails at saving anyone. Would of been better and darker if he actually failed to save the people at coney Island, which would've actually added to his interior motive.
I feel like they miss out on making venom scary by not having him actually hurt anyone close to Peter.
It would add that extra oomph if we actually saw Venom use his teeth on someone Peter loves or knows. If Venom in the one scene with MJ broke her bone or something…it would be such a WTF moment. They give us this menacing huge animalistic beast and the only time we see him draw blood is against Kraven. A big part of what caught me by surprise with the first game was them killing May. I didn’t think they’d do it. But here everyone felt “safe” like we all knew nothing bad would happen to anyone Peter cares about.
Instead of breaking her bones, he LITERALLY broke her mind and body to his will
@@shaunavant532 sorry buddy…
Not good enough.
It didn’t hit the same way.
All he did was make her say outloud all she wanted to tell Peter but couldn’t. Venom offered them a relationship therapy session💀
@@MkayM254 a 1 star session, atleats she turned into scream
@@shaunavant532 yeah, he broke her mind for like 5 minutes and then its fine. It wasn’t even close to enough
@arpadszabo661 that's just because of pacing otherwise she prob would've stayed scream got another mission
42:40 ok, I love this cut. 1. I felt like the only person who realized Peter was mirroring Doc Ock here, their need to be better after so many failures externally became something which nearly ruined Peter 2. Because the Symbiote mirroring the Neural Interface was a great move by the writers, and as for the rest of the entire video, it was really well done and backed up all claim’s with evidence from the games and didn’t overly bash on the game for its writing choices, just brought them up to make clear the intent behind the video.
So I just finished watching this video and I just thought about the moment you bring up the opinion most people have on this game’s version of Venom and the symbiote being inherently evil reminded me of a line from Prey (2017). It is a line from Alex Yu to your character around a 1/4th to halfway through the game’s story where he says:
*“People are quick to project human features onto things they don't understand. The Typhon kill us without hesitation. But it's not because they're evil. It's because they can't do otherwise. You know what we discovered? They lack mirror neurons. For all of their wonderful abilities, there is one thing that we can do that they can’t: empathize with the suffering of another living creature.”*
I think in a way this quote can apply to Insomniac’s take on Venom. Because we have no actual way to say if this take on Venom was evil to begin with or not. Just thought it would be interesting to think about
Synthetic Boy’s ranting at the beginning of the video 😂😂😂
It's literally racist
@@thegreatacolyt1277 No doubt about it.
I seriously don't know how that guy genuinely has fans
@@TomCat0217 yeah
@@GaelMadOveratedLudwigsBetter 600 thousand too
There is actually an interaction you might’ve missed with miles and Peter in the black suit, it’s short but it shows more of Miles’ concern. He called Miles before the “Wake up” mission. Telling him he’s going to bed tonight and asking if Miles is alright. Miles responds just by saying “yeah, you?” Peter responds with “Yeah, just tired.” Miles shows his concern by saying that Peter never acts like that.
There’s also a part during the black suit story where Miles visits Aunt May’s grave, mainly telling Aunt May that Peter isn’t acting like his usual self.
47:57 If someone got a photo of this, J.J would be printing papers nonstop saying "Spider-Man beats helpless woman asking for help" or something...
One detail I really love that's really just more of an observation is how this game starts so similar to the first one, with Spider-Man swinging to action to the detriment of his other life, but it still feels so different, and not just because of the bigger scope. The first game started with Peter on his own, the lone wolf Spider-Man is infamous for being, his only ally being Yuri who, despite clearly being more than just an ally, was still kept at a very strict arm's length by both sides. Spider-Man was very much a solo act and Peter wanted it that way. And Peter's arc in that game was in great part learning how to grow out of the notion that everything was his responsibility and that he has people in his life who will help him if he'll just let them. MJ's words in first game, "You're not alone anymore Pete." resonate all over this game's opening. Peter is still swinging to action, but now Miles is right beside him, MJ is on call ready to help and completely in the loop of the situation, Ganke is providing support from the background and is the fucking backbone of the whole operation, Rio is aware and encouraging Miles to do his best while still being worried about him, there's a whole network of people behind us now, Spider-Man isn't a solo act anymore, and it feels earned because we went through two games playing as each to get here, the whole thing feels right, I LOVE that I have so much help instead of being annoyed by it, and that's only possible because the construction to that help was so well done.
I really enjoyed the video. I have the same score of the story as you do (8 out of 10). There's a lot to love about it.
One thing I really loved about it was how it handled the Black Suit arc. While I can see the point of the suit could have benefited from more screentime, what we get of it is pretty great.
I find it believable that Peter would fall into the Black Suit and turn into a monster from his own issues. Peter's actions come from a place of good intention. Him wanting to hang out with Harry and side-lining Miles. This wasn't out of malice. He wanted Miles to focus on his life and get his essay done. Peter hangs out with Harry because he wanted to catch up on lost time. When he gets the Suit, that's where those good intentions start to turn malicious. Peter leaves Miles out because he thinks Miles is off his game and that Peter thinks he can do it better on his own thanks to the suit. Peter hanging out with Harry turns more malice because the stress is getting to Peter and that he believes the suit should stay with him because it makes him a better Spider-Man.
It shows how that Peter was still calling the shots despite being in the Suit. You ultimately feel for Peter. He wanted to do good, but the failure to balance his life and him giving into the suit is what turns him into a monster.
It's my favorite way to handle his fall into the suit. It's out of established character traits and things established in the story of these games.
Spectacular Spider-Man handled the Black Suit arc well, but since it was early in Peter's hero career (He only been Spider-Man for about 5 months) and he's only now getting his villain line up, we couldn't really do much with the mental struggle of Peter because his career of being a hero has just begun. The mental battle with the Black Suit was great of course, but the symbiote didn't have a ton to work with.
Spider-Man 3's Black Suit arc set up was very shaky because it's built on a retcon (Sandman killing Uncle Ben) and Peter's questionable characterization in the beginning of the movie. I don't buy Peter's actions in the beginning of the movie because it's too much of a leap from the end of Spider-Man 2. Even if he's going through an ego trip, I don't buy him kissing Gwen the way he did. I have a hard time buying Peter would go through an ego trip at all. You can't show and tell me that Peter would protect MJ no matter what, just for him to act like a jerk to her in the very next film with no real built up.
Despite the shaky set up, I feel the movie does well of handling Peter's fall and becoming a monster. It's just how we got there is what bothers me.
The 90s show's Black Suit arc is iconic, and I have a ton of respect for it, but it doesn't really explore on what makes Peter tick all that much. The Suit is more responsible for Peter going bad then Peter was. Plus, Peter taking off the suit was just way too easy. The bell rings a few times and boom, the suit is off him.
The 2017's Black Suit arc was just... pathetic.
Good video. It was worth the wait.
Perfectly said
This is perfect, well said
Hope no one crusificate you for bad mouthing spectacular and 90's symbiote arc. I think symbiote storyline should be introduced after Peter either at his highest points in life or the lowest point'. Spiderman 3 start at Peter being on highest points in his life so his downfall not only sudden but also feels horrofying, while insom Spiderman start at his lowest point' after Otto and May stuff that he also jobless his fall is less horrofying but straight up saddening. Having Peter went symbiote in his early career to me doesn't work because as you said Pete hasn't gone through much. That's why TASM 3 if they Made it should include symbiote storyline because it's the right time.
@@bagussajiwo1036 I don't think the Spectacular or 90s version are bad.
As I said, Spectacular did the arc very well, but it had the limitation of being early in Peter's career. You can't have the "I'm the solution" line without it sounding off.
I have a ton of respect for the 90s version. It made the Black Suit story actually interesting unlike the comics. The 90s version is pretty enjoyable, but it's not all that deep.
I can see your point with the storyline being at its most interesting when Peter is at a high point or low point.
If TASM 3 played its cards right, it could've had a pretty good storyline. Peter is at his emotional low with losing Gwen, his Uncle's killer is still out there, and not pulling his punches as much. It basically would have been like SM3's Black Suit story, but it's set up is actually good because it's built on things established in the narrative and not pulled out of its butt like SM3.
@@tippy1731 oh no didn't insinuate that spectacular and 90's symbiote storyline is bad, it's just that i worry people take your statement in the wrong way while you never intended it to be (let's be honest here, Spiderman fans are one of the worst out there, this is a possibility).
What i like about spectacular symbiote Peter is that it felt in character, even without the symbiote i believe Peter if decided to be isolasist would act like that. There's no exgratted anger or Emotion, there's no savage line or out of pocket statement from him but just a cold, dismissive, uncaring and eerily cold frustrated calm here, which mind you probably something that Peter would do even without the symbiote in some circumtance. It make the influence more subtle and felt slow burn (which probably the intention here) that probably partly due the there's no obvious trigger that pushed Peter to the edge (yeah May sick but it's not like she's dead or something, his name kind of get dragged to the mud but that's normal for him, and he's jobless but he's still high school student so there's no rush there). Don't know if you get my point'.
That and spectacular Spiderman is the only Spiderman media aside from comic that has the most screen time when Peter Dons the symbiote suit (the other hand only brief screen time compared to spectacular) so it's naturally more stood out.
I love how when the little alley oop thing is over, the subtitles for Ganke say [WAR CRY!]
Dude for this game I was most hyped for venom obviously, but every single scene with Kraven was terrific. Every time I hear his theme I get the goosebumps. Man is a monster
Finally a review of this game that isn’t “this game’s story is so unbelievably bad”. I have some issues with this game’s story but it’s still phenomenal and it doesn’t deserve the hate it gets and I can’t wait for spider man 3.
Nah the story is just bad. It tries to brute force its way through bad writing with spectacle and lacks substance
@@mrmelonman2893 Watch this video. It perfectly explains why the story is good.
@@mrmelonman2893Nice rage baiting man!
Basically it's just not a masterpiece and it's ok
No no no lmao. It deserves about 80% of the negativity it gets. The only over reaction is the woke stuff. As far as the actual narrative and quality of writing. It’s ranges from bad to mid. Everything is rushed, weak pacing, could go on. But definitely not mid. I think outside of the narrative everything is a 9 or 10/10. It’s definitely no where close to being a mid game like other people like to say it is:
the way the venom says "thanks for coming pete" is so wholesome in comparison to something like spectacular venom saying the same thing, i know a lot of people don’t like this venom but i think it’s cool how the symbiote and harry still care about peter and wants him to rule WITH them instead outright hating him
i feel like this story has a underlying toxic friendship narrative, like those friends you’re so close with the second you aren’t there for them 24/7 they start genuinely tweaking. or when your actual best friend comes to visit and it pushes your current best friend to the side, everyone fr jus wanted some peter, the symbiote especially
@@igg7865problem is, we see this concept done better in spectacular spiderman, so in comparison venom in spiderman 2 is shit
@mrmelonman2893 not really. Spectacular Spider-Man leaned too hard into how much Venom Hates Spider-Man, that we've basically seen that story before.
We don't have enough stories where Venom sincerely cares for Spider-Man, and Harry sincerely cares for Peter.
@zacharybosley1935 BECAUSE VENOM AS A CHARACTER DOESN'T CARE FOR SPIDERMAN. U know how stupid u sound right now? 🤦. Venom despises spiderman that's his core character trait, take that away from him u don't have venom. There's a reason nobody makes Harry venom because that changes the core characteristics of what makes venom, so good. That's like saying theirs not enough stories of Peter killing uncle Ben. It's stupid
@@zacharybosley1935 Except Venom hating Peter is exactly his story Venom resent Peter for taking him off you could bring well they work together before in the comics that’s because they had to because Carnage is hell on earth
Spiderman 1 has a theme of inspiration. Spiderman and Martin Li were inspired by aunt May, Miles is inspired by his dad and Doc Oc was jealous of Osborn, helping people not because of inspiration or a genuine desire to help, but overtaken by the need to prove himself against Norman, leading to his downfall. “If you help someone, you help everyone”
Spiderman 2 has a theme of legacy. May’s legacy has left an impact on Peter and Harry to do right by her, Peter sees his new job as an alternative to help the world as the Spiderman legacy becomes unfulfilling to him, which the suit temporarily solves, leading to the lab getting destroyed, Kraven wants an honourable legacy before his death, despite the innocent people who get hurt. Harry says to Peter “don’t you get tired of healing the world everyday, you can do it once” leading to his downfall, becoming obsessed with healing the world, forgetting why he wanted to help people in the first place.
Don't disrespect Rufus. He's better than those rats 0:50
Don't be diss on Rufus!
I think with the fridge thing is that Peter was not expecting the fridge to fall on him like think about it if something you lift falls on you you would probably fall down because you won't expecting it
Yeah but if I had the strength of Spider-Man I would’ve gotten up pretty quickly after it fell on me
Ya but you also have to keep in mind Peter was hit by Venom who I away stronger then him and Peter was also weak from removing the Symbiote
alot of people hate the fact that harry is venom in this game, and I thought I was going to hate it too before I had played the game but I'm honestly very happy with the adaptation we got. Probably my favorite adaptation of Venom in a long time.
I never minded, honestly. It fits this story, which is the only thing that matters.
Harry was the better Venom for the story they wanted to tell. I still prefer Eddie overall though. Well… the screentime difference is kinda in his favor as Venom.
I feel, like many others have stated, that the game not having a longer runtime doesn’t really allow for us to see Harry as venom. Which sucks in comparison to the previous big bad, who’ve we gotten to see more of. If there was more scenes exploring this version of the character, then I imagine less people would be put off by the whole thing.
@@shinji2898 I'd prefer the story just focus on Kraven entirely, but more time with Harry was needed.
Eddie doesn’t always have to be venom
36:59
I’m just glad someone like LowTierGod doesn’t have Mr. Negative’s power. Miles would have never survived 😢😅
It’s finally here
Grab some popcorn, boys
Yes i will now
🍿🍿🍿
Already am
I brought the soda to btw
I recently discovered that venom has a freakin air finisher. There is so much random details like this or the insomniac bus
Also Tony Todd’s voice on the controller speaker i didn’t know about that
@@Dachin55555Hold up, what?!
@@LucasHopkins2006 Yeah at the end of the Tombstone mission you’ll hear Tony Todd say Peter’s name on the controller speaker when the symbiote grabs Peter’s hand it’s a cool little detail
@@Dachin55555 Yoooo, I never knew that, that’s sick!
Edit: I went back to that mission and had my controller’s volume on max just to be sure and yep, Venom definitely said Peter when that happened
@LucasHopkins2006 You can also hear him growling whenever you go surge mode out of your controller.
Absolutely fantastic. This video didn't even feel like it was 2 hours. I'm really glad that you made this. I was invested in what you had to say the WHOLE time.
Damn, what a great analysis! It's well edited and written. It made me love this game and its story even more! Keep up the good work
I hope youtuber GodzillaMendoza sees this. This was nothing short of amazing.
hes too busy being on twitter
I love how much peter with the symbiote reflects Otto, during the Lizard fight when he injects him with the antidote is when i first noticed how he uses the symbiotes tendrils like Otto's arms a lot, he does this when hes strangling Kraven too.
I love how you mention the Symbiote's POV too as Evan Filarca made an hour long video talking about Venom and the Symbiote itself and it pretty much touches on these topics as well
1:23:20 The way I viewed this was less that the symbiote wanted to ditch Harry for Peter. Harry learned Peter is Spider-Man and realizes that his best friend is a super hero, he already wanted to heal the world with Peter, and now he saw another way they could help, as superheroes. Harry not only wants to scoop Peter onto their old project, he also wants to be like Spider-Man, and the symbiote recognizes this.
Right after this, Harry is talking about being a hero, yet him and the symbiote would have no clue how to do that, Peter does. We've seen in other media that the symbiote will full on get off of their host to swap, and though that's nothing concrete, I figure it's worth bringing up.
After this, it copies Spider-Man in multiple ways. Harry's first suit is a lot like a spider suit. The conversation Harry and Peter have before the foundry, Harry wants to be a "Spider Pal." During the mission, Harry is jumping around and moving more brute like but after the suit grabs Peter, he not only aquires a symbol but he's shown using tendrils to swing as webs, just like Spider-Man. Finally, when Harry sees Peter dying, the only thing he can think of is not losing Peter, and so to fulfill the desire to save Peter, the suit does the only thing it knows it can do.
The only heavy issue I have with my own theory is mostly the suit grabbing Peter. My two theories were either it hsd Harry's desire to have Peter in his life or it was to copy his abilities for Harry to use, if you notice Harry's suit is armord because it needs to be as Harry is more fragile than Peter. But who knows, I had never considered that Harry probably isn't an ideal host and that Peter is a more desirable one, but I wonder if the suit would fully acknowledge this.
The symbiote usually isn't unloyal, but it also typically bonds with Peter first, always wanting him back after being torn from him. In the game, it talks about how Peter was torn away from it, so if it wanted Peter from the start or got attached, it later ultimately culminates to it being angry they were separated. The only thing I'd wonder is if it would now leave Harry for Peter, I would assume yes but I'm not sure if we'll ever know
yo, your videos are so expertly edited and well structured. You're massively underrated for your video quality and one of the only youtubers that i can watch for hours on end.
You make a video game that i know the story to and know the ending,so much more detailed and makes my apprecaite literally ANY game more
love long-form videos like these and make sure too keep these types of videos up👍
sorry for the glazing btw👍
It feels so rushed. It feels like as soon as you get the symbiote Peter takes it off
Im tired of this "Peter got nerfed" Wasn't it not told to us that when Peter is under a lot of stress and doubt, it hinders his performance as Spider-Man
When their favorite youtuber/figure says it they all want to just say the same thing despite it having a lore reason to why it’s a thing. it’s actually pretty sad.
@@yourefatmom6159 Exactly my point. This is why I don't believe the quote "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions" because people say some dumbass shit
Peter literally got his butt beaten by a post-jumped Miles while wearing the symbiote and it wasn't even close.
@@megabear8905 peter was still holding back even then as said by kraven before that section of the fight and miles in the end had to use the bell. I saw a comment of this before but in a fight while holding back miles would probably win but in a fight without holding back peter would win.
Said to us when?
42:00 I swear dude that bit was incredibly bone chilling and it really made my day
I'm glad you're one of the people that understand this game and the character spider
Hang on, I just noticed that Pete is always wearing his web shooters. Even when he visits Emily May and Harry doesn't even know he's Spider Man. How this guy managed to keep his identity a secret is a mystery.
People can't see his web shooters under his costune
He wears them like wrist bands and colors them to fit it.
I mean he does that in the comics, and most other interpretations too, hell in a lot of mediums he even wears his costume underneath his regular clothes, like sam raimis spider-man, or spectacular spider-man.
My 2nd least favorite thing about the game is easily Venom, I despise symbiote invasions storylines and it’s a little unclear about how the symbiote works. Venom’s always at his best when he’s after Pete, not taking over the world. Might I say it’s also a little sad that your filler villain is miles better than your main villain
Colin putting out the video we’ve always been waiting for
Yeah
@@thegreatacolyt1277 well hello
didn’t he already upload this at one point? or am I tripping
@@Cosmicmorales he uploaded an overw]view of the video but that. Was it
You sir, have officially made my favorite video about Spider-Man 2! I love how in depth you went with Peter and Miles' arcs, as well as MJ's arcs.
I especially love the way you described Venom (Uncle Terry) and is behavior. Mainly that the symbiote is acting based off of things it was "taught". The symbiote itself isn't necessarily bad in the traditional sense. It thinks it's doing the right thing, but it's going about it the wrong way!
It's clear that this video had a lot of effort put into it and it's an amazing watch not just for people who already love the game (the vast majority of people), but I think this video may also sway people who may not like the game (the minority)! Thanks for making this video my man, cheers!
I’m really glad to see this story receive more nuanced dissection. I’ve definitely been guilty of being too harsh on the game and it is still incredibly solid.
Evan Filarca's Incle Terry video is pretty eye opening and funnily enough you mentioned a few points he did like with the Symbiote learning from both Harry and Peter. I hope they explain more in the future officially regarding the Symbiote
I absolutely love the symbols, themes and characterizations in Insomniacs games and it’s disappointing that people perceive it as only an agenda because there's a 'little' political messaging in it that has nothing to do with the main writing, as well as over exaggerating and over analyzing even the smallest imagery
PS4 is better than this story wise, but Spider-Man 2 is still a fire sequel
Fake fan.
I know it's not directly related with the story, but you get so distracted in the Spanish version with their "neutral gender" approach that it takes you out of the narrative and seriousness of the themes... Like eating a good cake with some hidden needles inside
The editing is on point.
The parralel from Peter to Otto sent a chill down my spine.
I liked your review of Marvel's Spider-Man 2 gameplay and story. While I like the story of Spider-Man 2 (2023) I still think Spider-Man (2018) had a better story overall.
Great work! This has to be the best Spider-man 2 analysis video I’ve seen yet! Great job explaining Peter, Miles, MJ, Harry, the Symbiote, Kraven, and Uncle Terry!
This npc ass comment💀
Yo, Colin thanks for the shoutout! Glad my video could help!
I think one of the biggest differences between Spider-Man 2 and the other two games is that they cover a lot of story and character development during gameplay, specifically boss battles, and you need to pay attention to their dialogues to fully appreciate the writers' work. I get that's a problem for a lot of people but I believe it is a totally reasonable choice as at some point you need to stop spending millions for cutscenes.
Awesome vid! Loved the analysis it put everything into perspective, great vid!
I enjoyed the video as usual. You did a way better job talking about Peter, Miles and Mj's characters than in my review video. I really hate when people say that Mj is so bad and that she has no flaws which is not true. Overall I did enjoy the story and Peter and Miles characters in the game
Having the outline of the video be red and blue is genius because it tricked me into thinking i was already halfway through the video. I was going to click anyway but that’s damn smart
My biggest gripe with the story would be how fast the symbiote section went by. I feel the symbiote should have been attached to Peter much earlier in the game and have it slowly changing him throughout the game. Other than that I thought the story was top notch.
This is exactly what I’ve been waiting for
Bro that starting clip of the guy talking about Ganke and the Miles game is CRAZY, also great analysis of the story
Actually i have a theory about how electro could come back. It's that now that he's dead somehow that basically turned him into pure energy (which was his goal in ps4) maybe they even could make him crazy because his mind is being fluxuated and moved around and changed at a constant rate. And we could get the blue lightning ultimate Spiderman version. But that's just a theory
Kraven to me exemplified how what the most important thing is in a Spider-Man villain. To me at least. An ideology that opposes Spider-Man’s in some way. That’s more important than a villain’s powers.
I always like the thought of the symbiote being a baby and when it binds woth someone it take q part of who they are and becomes more like them. Like kid they absorb their surroundings and base their personality off it. And I think Insomniac's venom is a great showing of this idea, he's like a teenager with a great idea but because of his inexperience in the world he only sees one way of "healing the world".
Let’s go i’ve been waiting for this
Really well made video, dude. I'm glad to see someone actually have valid criticisms over something they love and not just... racism lmao
This video is objectively speaking facts. The story is great. The story is 8-8.5/10 but overall game is 9/10
bro that montage you did at the beginning of the video of the story beats was INCREDIBLE
I think you should post all the edits you put in this vid individually. They’re actually so good
truly a great video watching all if this has been worth the wait. great stuff man.
This is absolutely amazing keep up the great work can’t wait to see more 🔥!
I love Kraven in this but Venom has a problem I see a lot in modern black suit stories. It treats the symbiote like it controls the host, it and the host work together, it’s like alcohol, it lowers your inhibition and lets the symbiote become more aggressive.
Mmhm, it’s why the first time you play as Venom that everything hits so hard, because you really are playing as both Harry and the suit.
Great analysis dude. This was a great watch.
One thing I have mentioned before but here is a great opportunity. What they did with Venom in concept could have been perfect. Venom is a character who hates peter cause the symbiotic was abandoned by peter and hates Peter because Eddie hated peter. In this one harry likes peter even when betrayed and miles helped take the symbiotic off. So its miles who Venom hates because Miles replaced harry in the relationship: “That kid is the other one? A lot happened when you were gone.. believe me I Know ” and Miles is one of the reasons peter took the suit off.
24:10
That was another really good video!
I think your analyses are good, those I’ve seen thus far, of Peter’s symbiote arc and Miles’ arc. Still watching more of it after this comment.
To me, the story is less consistent and cohesive, but it does have so many great moments. And really good character work. I think this narrative really needed that bit more hours om game time. Mostly when it comes to more grounded scenes outside the spandex. Some more foreshadowing of MJ not being entirely satisfied with her relationship with Peter. Miles and Harry interacting more. Miles’ friends trying to interact with him whilst he’s searching for Li. (BTW, after Peter and Miles save Rio and Ganke in the subway, Ganke said he got he cheated at mini golf when they were eight. But wasn’t Ganke his new/other best friend after Miles went to Brooklyn Visions and didn’t see Phin anymore?) A little more time to smooth out Peter’s transition in the symbiote. A scene with Peter and Martin Li. About Li’s redemption and May’s passing. More time to amp up the final act with Venom. I really like most characters a lot. Kraven is perfect here for me. Miles’ storyline with Martin Li is well done. Harry’s descent is well done. And I like Venom, for the most part. Still kind of split on this iteration. Peter was good, though at times a bit inconsistent. This game is more of a spectacle in terms of set pieces. But I think the first game is just built up a little more meticulously. Otto hits harder than Harry for me. Insomniac did set the bar high there.
A lot of people don’t seem to like the ending, with Peter’s (likely temporary) retirement. I like it a lot. Both his games allude to the fact that he just needs Peter Parker time. He’s already tired at the start of the first game. And after so many setbacks, May and Harry topple him over the edge. Spider-Man can’t persist if Peter is completely drained mentally, so Peter needed to give himself, his job, his love life the time they need to finally start washing away some of that Parker luck.
As for the flame being the most notable side story, Carnage thus far is great, in my opinion. A threat before he’ll don the costume and the moniker. I do think Peter’s relationship with Wraith could’ve been done better. I think their ideologies should have clashed more, even though they had a boss fight. You get the prompt to play the boss fight mission when you have the symbiote. I think Peter could’ve been a little less restrictive.
Something I don’t see people talking about is how Miles stated to Ganke “I’ll do better, make the time to hang out.” But he becomes the lone Spidey after the main story. Which doesn’t seem congruent. Of course, he’d need to uphold the responsibility, especially with Peter taking his well earned break, but… Well, Miles did seem to give the people close to him some deserved attention. He finished his essay. Asked Hailey out and got to meet Albert and Cindy… but still, it seems contradictory in the long run.
Just to speak on your question about Ganke. I'm not sure how they're doing it in Insomniac's universe but in the comics Miles and Ganke have known each other since they were very young, like four or five years old, so it seems like they might be going that route. In Spider-Verse Miles and Ganke meet at Visions. Can't remember if they've explicitly stated when they met aside from that comment in the subway
@@aliciacap7206 I believe Miles introduced Ganke to Phin as his other best friend. But it’s clear that he and Phin were the childhood best friends and Phin doesn’t know Ganke yet.
Hes known ganke for awhile tho cause he said how when ganke was like in elementary that he and miles traded lunches @jarmoliebrand2005
I personally think the main story went a bit too fast and glossed over Peter's transformation into bully lowenthal (was too quick). And the symbiote invasion was a bit too short imo
And Miles suit just *appears*, the anti venom suit makes sense, it's a part of the story, same with Miles suit from his game, the anti Ock suit and the advanced suit, they all had story relevance. But the Miles Morales Original just exists to give a new suit. Plus it looks like shit
nah the first 2 acts were great it's only the third act was rushed as per Bryan Intihar.
I felt like the Aunt may Foreshadowing of balance was completely pointless we never see peter actually find perfect balance between anything by the end of the story he just gives up on being spiderman entirely for miles to takeover.
The Fridge is easily explained if you just take into consideration what Peter has been doing. The guy has to be exhausted and add the fact that being fresh off the Symbiote, I wouldn't be surprised Pete is going through a form of withdraw
Colin with another banger.
Got a good laugh and long conversation out of this tangled web of a confusing video. Thanks for the several hours of fun I had with the group watch.
I love your montages with the intro and the Peter fight. Hope to see more of that in the future. But the review itself, I like your interpretation of the story, it sounds better than "Symbiote is evil" that I've heard before. I kind of thought that the Symbiote was a learning alien when I first played it. (Also I wish I could've seen an edit when Miles was getting punched into the ground by Peter's rogue gallery and the 'Be Greater' trailer when Peter is falling)
I will say, that one thing I did not like is how “clean,” everything feels.
Characters speak and act as if their employers are watching, which can take away from the stakes at times and make it feel hyper sensitive instead of serious.
The game certainly has other flaws, this is just what I felt was the largest about the story. But as a game itself, still the best if not one of the best superhero games.
Love the video as always glad to see someone actually approach the game in good faith when Twitter will tell you this is the worst Spider-Man media ever to exist in anything
14:43 would have been so much funnier if it had a vine boom like imagine this
Peter: Destroy Us?
*Vine Boom*
This is like the best video about this game ive seen. Colin you never fail to be the only person to see reason in video's. I feel like this story could have gone as one of the characters greatests if it had just a bit more time to flesh out the themes it was trying to tell. its great as is and the messaging about balance and leaving behind what doesnt help you and even the themes of abusing an addiction to cope with your own self esteem and self doubts are genuinely amazing. if the story was even just a few hours longer to show more of peter i n the black suit, and miles struggle of being afraid of loosing people aswell as add a bit to the admittedly super fast third act to flesh out venom aa bit more it would have been perfect
I never understood why so many people disliked the story of the game. Insomniacs Spiderman Games are so high quality and a gift for us Spiderman-Fans and I will love them forever. Call me a Meatrider all you want Im here all for it
YES another W vid from Colin, Im gonna enjoy watching this better get the popcorn.
Love the content, especially how you can bring positivity to a game that has been getting criticized (I’d say unfairly). I love the Insomniac Spider-man games. Discussion thing posed in the vid: The thing about Avengers and Fantastic 4 are probably off somewhere else. It’s told in the first game that the Avengers are in California.
My best guess for MM and 2; 1. Miles’s villain was much more low scale in comparison to the avengers scales. 2. The whole thing with Venom’s Heal the World mission, it didn’t last very long, there are very few time skips in both games. Meaning that the spider-bros handled venom in a couple days, (I mean we saw how quickly Peter alone handled his rogues in the first game) and nobody except a handful of people had any info on the symbiotes to begin with.
But that’s my thoughts on it, love your content Colin, keep up the good work.
Would be cool if they showed like as Peter’s and Harry’s relationship was crumbling, Miles was reaching out to Harry and building theirs. So when Venom takes over he isn’t as aggressive towards Miles because Harry had a good relationship with him.
Miles's story really does feel separated and secondary for large chunks of the game, it's a shame.
They really did MJ dirty again, when the symbiote starts controlling Peter she just starts trashing him and when he got it off and started to apologize she just says "go on"
Can we all agree that Peter's line: "All I wanted to do was to save everyone, MJ, May, now that city thinks that I'M the problem" is one of if not the BEST DELIVERED lines in gaming history.
I love it
Bro
The beginning should have been the trailer for the game
Great analysis dude. Enjoyed this a lot
Also something I wanna add is:
In the end... Kraven won. He got his "Worthy Death". That was his objective and he was rewarded with. Sich af tbh
babe wake up new Colin vid just dropped
Off topic but I don’t see the point in adding silk it’s just going to take up more time and that’s more away from Peter\miles and that’s not wanted