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Solving the mysteries of Mortis: What does it all really mean?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2023
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The Mortis arc proved Anakin is The Chosen One, idc what Disney says.
Anakin IS the chosen one. Disney doesn't say different.
Yes I’m still on my Star Wars chronological rewatch right now I’m on Jedi survivor but still looking back on the clone wars and this arc shows how anakin is the chose one end of the goddam discussion Disney/Kennedy. Anakin/Vader is an amazing character and the chosen one. Rey will take nothing from him…
@@benjaminroe311ify I guess you didn't see the Rise of (false) Skywalker; Disney says Rey is the Chosen One; the only one to defeat Palpatine.
There was this little movie that came out in 1983...Return of the Jedi, kinda confirmed Anakin was the chosen one 😮
@@kenknowlton3085 I do agree. I think even if the sequels didn't spell it out would the issue is already here: "Palpatine somehow returned".
That is the most infuriating thing about those movies for me personally. There are more things but that is the worst of all. Anakin was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If he would not be there, Palpatine would just be in a similar position, so he did not bring balance to the force.
The fact that a Mary Sue then does it without any meaningful training and the whole "all Sith vs all Jedi" destroyed the lore of the force - that is the icing on the cake, followed up by the destruction of more lore and characters.
I know those movies will not be erased from Disney canon as long as they have the license to SW, but to me personally: I can't accept those movies, because they destroy so much lore, characters from the universe I love. I also think the message of those new movies is just terrible, the old deals with emotions, personal issues, sacrifice and how hard it can be to do the right thing. How hard work (training) will help you in the end, that falling down and failing (like Anakin or Luke) does not mean the end, as long as you get up and continue. Those are great values and ideas. The new is just: be a girl who is perfect. Really relateable and great advice for your life, isn't it?
Even though I was a kid when I first watched this episode, I still vividly remember how sad this arc was.
When the Daughter shielded the Father from the dagger, then using her powers to save Ahsoka.
Then later on when the Father using the dagger on himself to help Anakin deal with the Son, as well as the feeling of remorse from the Son when he realize what just happened.
It really felt like a tragedy. I still feel bad for what happened to the Mortis Family - especially to the Father who couldn't just let the Son leave that place.
I'm really enjoying these "force theology" videos; I would love to see more discussions about this kind of stuff!
It’s possible the gods of Mortis are the last of the celestial species which were known as the great architects in legends, it’s possible that pyramid we see Anakin, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka enter in the first episode of this arc is a Tho’Yor which was said to have been built by these beings. Also remember that Jedi temple on Lothal from Star Wars rebels? I like to think that was also built by them.
Yes
The very ships used to bring the original je'daii to tython in legends.
If you want a EU answer, Lothal would be built by Killik hives, because it's based on McQuarrie art of Alderaan. But none of these things you mentioned are canon.
I've really enjoyed your videos refuting the arguments about the "middle" between the dark light sides of the force and gray Jedi. Lucas himself said balance is when the dark side has been defeated.
Indeed, but the nuance is the simple fact that the Force embodies all life; good, bad and the ugly. There is the dark side of nature, which has attributes in the Force itself and then there is the Dark side of the Force that is Imbalance. The latter is an aberration of the natural cycle, discovered by the Sith and used as a means to power. The Son represented the former, but inevitably fell to the latter.
Exactly. Hate when people say the Son is "A Master of the Dark Side", and I'm like... that's not how balance works. If he was, he'd have been locked away a long time ago. He was balanced... till Anakin and the gang showed up
This would be a great segue into the lessons of KotOR 2. Specifically what Nihilus and Kreia represent in the force and how they needed to be stopped.
I think what it really comes down to is not that the world NEEDS the dark side, it's that the darkness is an inevitability. It isn't NEEDED, it just IS. And the light is the side that must rise to stop the darkness. In the same sense that the dark side is the "easy path to power", like sliding down a mountain, it just happens if you don't work to climb the mountain.
That is correct. I think evil is an inevitable, bcoz the state of nature and people are neutral and have the capacity for good and evil but that is not to say that good and evil don't exist. Our inner darkness is inevitable and we can feed it or fight it
Cool video. A few things I noticed in the Mortis arc: the Son and Daughter's animal forms closely resemble the fanged and winged gods, respectively, in Dathomiri Shamonism. Also, there are symbols of the Ashla and Bogan incorporated into the Mortis' architecture. Not to mention, Mortis has two moons, like how Tython had its Ashla and Bogan moons.
This arc was awesome, exciting, captivating, emotional, contained high stakes, deep, spiritual, insightful, and surprisingly misunderstood even till this day
I think of it like the Son is supposed (supposed) to embody the natural darkness (ex. a Supernova which is destructive yet natural) while the Sith embody the darkness of chaos. The Balance of the Force is the natural order of existence while the Sith upset that order.
Exactly. And the Jedi are meant to serve that balance. Therefore they are necessary
@@JDog2656 Meant to serve thst balance, but screwed up once they gave up on the Dark Side altogether, instead becoming dogmatic for the Light.
Hey Thor. I just got recommended your 3 year old video about the episode 9 leaks. I decided to watch it for fun and in it you said it was probably fake and that "at best it reads like decent fan fiction." As we all now know the leak was 100% accurate. The irony of it all is very hard to stomach as a huge fan of Star Wars. I just felt like sharing this.
10:06 yeah, I remember that video of Dave consulting with Lucas. Where George spoke of his concept of the Force and balance exactly as Thor described them in his previous video. Well, MAYBE George's views suddenly dramatically changed on their way to the Mortis episodes script.
...or someone had his own views or understanding...
I LOVE this arc, I thought all three represented phases of Anakin. The daughter being the Jedi who are currently wrong and self sacrificial and passive, then the Sith who are greedy and evil but ultimately tragic. The father is the Anakin of the end who does end the Sith despite acknowledging the tragedy and knows they need to go, even though he himself also dies.
Thor, there's another angle about this story. All 3 characters could represent a force user... A jedi. Meaning that everyone has a light and a dark side, but that it's you who choose and control your destiny.
Darkness is not the opposite of light, it's the absence of light.
So someone could say light is the absence of darkness
@@anthonysemerzier2048No.
See it like this, just because cold is the absence heat, dosnt mean the opposite is equaly true. Heat is not the absence of cold. Is a one way thing.
I always understood it as abrahamic metaphor for the force and the people that wields it with the children, and the whills as the father, nothing more too deep. The father can't control his children because the force, his own existence, grants them free will, so he realistically cannot do anything about them without contradicting his own being.
People I could just listen to all day talk about Star Wars.. George Lucas, Dave Filoni, Sam Witwer and Thor Skywalker.
I think the Son is the Dark Side but is supposed to represent the Dark Side as it should be and always has to resist giving into the true power of it.
Very interesting arc and yes mirrors the life and decisions of Anakin...
Bored me as a kid, still intrigues me to this day
I loved this arc as a kid and was my favorite for a while.
Also very good video thor. That arc is like a microcosm of the entire saga in a way and is super interesting
The point of Morris was to show that anakin had already started down the selfish path. He refused the father aid in what seemed to be the most important undertaking in the galaxy and could have been his actual destiny to "balance" the son and daughter by keeping them in check.
Except the whole point was the Father was wrong about balance.
@@willfanofmanyii3751that’s deep. What’s your thoughts on this?
I believe if the EU had continued we would have gotten much more of this arc in the novels past abaloth. I think the tho yor ships were connected to them as celestial tech and the mortis beings were celestials. Tython and it's moons were just like the mortis beings and we should have gotten more of this fleshed out
Right- we would have gotten explanations about the mist of apparitions, the font of power, the pool of knowledge and above all the throne of balance where allana sat in judgement
Mortis arc was really my first taste of force lore love to see that it's such a cornerstone of both the clone wars and the discussion surrounding the nature of the force as a whole
Is it possible that The Son is still around? We hear his voice in rebels on the sith temple, I think.
This is one of the best videos you’ve ever done. I’ve debated this in real life so many times and have never been able to put it so concisely
Well said Thor - great video! I really like this arc, the arc with the Wills and the World between Worlds. I like that they give you lore while also leaving the force with even more mystery.
I am curious to see if Dave brings some of this into the Ashoka series. Do you think we will see Morai and/or more relating to the Mortis arc?
I guess we could argue it's like religion. There are different interpretations and different teachings about the force but no one really knows the true answer. At least that's how I always seen it. It also explains the "force magik" of night sisters. Same force. Different teachings.
Also In Jedi Survivor you can overhear a very similar conversation between the monks of the hidden path. They try to explain contradictions and different interpretations of th force in ancient texts.
The force isn't a religion it seems to a fact of the star wars galaxy as much as matter is... But Force users typically ok 100% of the time are religious.... As remember all a religion is is a belief system and you can believe what ever you want.
@@GreenBlueWalkthroughthe force might be a tangible thing in the Galaxy but there groups like the Jedi and Sith who use believe it works in very different ways, which makes them religions.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Exactly where people get hanged up on is the force is relatively unknown in the galaxy and even in universe some people like Han Solo in a new hope believed it to be just some hocky religion because the Jedi and Sith are religious groups centered on the force. Which does not stop the Force from being fact much like sun worshipers don't make it just a belief.
Are you talking about that conversation about the suffering paradox or something different? I only remember the one about "breaking the cycle" of suffering is achieved by not trying to stop it. Or something like that.
It's a little like that stoicism concept of acceptance
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough my point was there are different schools and teachings. All of them are using the same force but all of them have different interpretations, different outcomes. Just like different religions has different interpretations of god and how the universe was created.
I guess you could also compere it to Dragon Ball. All of them are using Chi. But the outcome depends on the techniques they are using.
In a similar way night sisters have a different set of skills compered to Jedi or sith.
Great video, Thor!
I think of this topic in terms of the weight of both sides. The more positive aspects of life are things such as creation and peace. The darker aspects of life consist of destruction, death, sickness, etc. Both are natural aspects of life. However, the darker parts are much heavier or more consequential than the positive aspects. Therefore, true balance in Star Wars consists of mostly the light aspects, with only a little bit of dark. The small amount of dark has enough weight to keep the great amount of light from throwing the universe out of balance. This describes the natural cycle of birth, life, destruction, death, and rebirth. It is only when someone greatly embraces the negative aspects of life that the balance is lost.
It means mortis is more interesting than the sequel trilogy
Love it when we get these videos that are just talking about the force. It's such a fascinating topic.
*Thor...*
*This is your brain 🥚*
*This is your brain on Disney Star Wars 🍳*
*Any questions ?* 🤔
*"NUFF SAID"™️*
Where does Abeloth fall into all this?
The Legends category
(jkjk)
Thank God Thor finally covered this. It's this specific misunderstanding that has emo edgelords the world over praising Kreia's "wisdom". She was very, very wrong in her conclusions at least, and in many aspects of her philosophy. The dark side is a cancer on the force.
I just commented how they needed to be stopped because of this. Lol
Well, she is the Lord of Betrayal. Convincing people to betray the Force is exactly what she'd do.
@@smartalec2001 I suppose that so many praise her espoused views is a testament to her portrayal.
KK is a presentation of the dark side.
And I don't agree.
Unchecked growth can be just as dark as as unchecked destruction. Everything has a consequence.
The opposite is also true
U r also tested when using any side of the force
Excellent video. These are great episodes and my take is very much in line with Thor's.
This is the point where things started to get real goofy.
George Lucas: "the film (referring to Episode I) is ultimately about the dark side and the light side and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. We all have those two sides of us. We have to make sure those two sides of us are in balance" (Taken from his 1999 PBS Special with Bill Moyers.
I'm all for protecting Lucas' vision from Disney's incompetence but we don't have to manufacture fake predicaments to accomplish that.
So you're saying light = compassion, Dark = greed and that balance to the force is equal amounts of compassion and equal amounts of greed? That's like the third law of Newtons physics, for every action there is an equally opposite reaction. So you're telling me that balance to the force is Newtons third law of physics?
Good analysis of the philosophy behind the Mortis gods.
Imbalance is when there is a light side and a dark side. Balance is when death and destruction do themselves in; and, when life and prosperity continually regenerate themselves to sustain the optimal state for all living things.
0:19 it’s one of my favorite arcs.
my theory is this:
In the clone wars mortis arc, the son offers anakin the option to end the cycle of war by joining with him. i feel that the son is the one calling to Baylan and he is going to make the same offer to him and Baylan will accept. he will then become the vessel for the son and the resulting battle against him is why there are no other jedi in the sequels.
he will join with the son, and make his way to the main galaxy and will join with the nightsisters on dathomir and use thrawns war with the rebels to destroy both sides at the same time. the mandoverse heroes will come together to take out baylan/the son and some will die. then the remaining heroes, after having defeated the dark side vessel, have to deal with the remnant empire with their own severly depleted forces and thats how the new republic loses and becomes the first order in time for the sequels.
The confusion the Mortis arc causes is part of a deeper issue in how the Force is handled in Star Wars. In the Force Lucas attempts to present a synthesis of ideas taken from both Eastern and Western spiritual traditions, but these ideas aren’t readily compatible and for narrative reasons the story ends up favoring a more Western perspective. Initially the Force is described as an energy field which flows through the universe in the same manner as Qi, the spiritual energy of Taoism. This would imply that the Light / Dark dichotomy in the Force is analogous to the balance between Yin, the passive feminine form of Qi, and Yang, the active masculine form of Qi. Indeed, when Luke asks Yoda how to tell the difference between the Dark and Light Yoda says “You will know; when you are calm, at peace, passive.” Mortis expresses this by casting the feminine daughter in the passive role and the masculine son in the active role.
However, the need for a conflict to drive the narrative sees the Light and Dark cast in the Western mode of a Manichaean struggle between good and evil. In the Manichaean dichotomy the world exists in a balance between orderly creative forces and chaotic destructive forces, but this balance by its very nature makes the world a spiritual battle field. Star Wars clearly operates in this mode narratively, and that necessarily shapes the presentation of the Force spiritually.
This causes the Eastern-Western synthesis Lucas is attempting to fail, and the nature of the Force to collapse into a skewed and incomplete version of the Western spiritual perspective. The Force becomes a passive nurturing energy, while the Dark Side become an active domineering energy. This pits the sacred feminine against the profane masculine, which is narratively incoherent and incomplete as the sacred and profane feminine should be opposed by each other as should the sacred and profane masculine.
The original trilogy survives this spiritual incoherence because the feminine force empowers a masculine hero to over come masculine villains, but the Mortis arc fails because the mostly passive daughter becomes active to fight the son. There are examples of narratives which successfully pit the sacred feminine against the profane masculine, but in that dynamic the feminine doesn’t fight back. It surrenders to the masculine and redeems the masculine through nurturing it. This is the Beauty and the Beast narrative. Unfortunately, having already embraced the Manichaean model of good fighting evil, the Force as presented in the daughter cannot surrender to and redeem the the Dark Side embodied in the son. They must fight, and that fight forces the sacred masculine embodied by the father to sacrifice itself instead. This is discordant both narratively and spiritually, which is why it’s so damn confusing to the audience.
I'd argue Luke is using his feminine energy to redeem Vader. Retroactively, he continues what Padme started.
@@user-yq9im9dk9z Luke does lapse into a passive mode, which is necessary for Vader to become the active party. However, that passivity is immediately preceded by Luke in a highly active mode as he falls to the Dark Side and defeats his father in a duel with that power. Luke then redeems Vader by example. Casting aside his lightsaber he says to the Emperor who embodies the Dark Side, “You’ve failed. I am a Jedi like my father before me.” This shows Vader that just as his fall was a choice, so to is his path to redemption. He can choose to defy the Dark Side like Luke does. It’s a refutation of what Vader claims earlier in the film when he says, “ You don’t know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master.” This awareness of choice, an active and thus masculine mode of operation, is what allows Vader to redeem himself by turning on the emperor to save his son.
This Arc is Absolutely Brilliant and it really does show You that Anakin IS The Chosen One!
Hey Thor. Can you talk about the Sith views on what the force is. I imagine in universe, disagreements on the nature of the force occur especially frequently for dark siders.
If you want a good idea of what the Sith’s view the Force as, I would suggest the Masterpiece “Darth Plagieus”(Expanded Universe)
What do you think happened to the Mother? Some fans think she became Abeloth in legends, while others think she split into the 5 Force Priestesses in canon.
Who thinks the latter?
The force should never have been embodied. The force was an energy sorce that could be used for good or evil. At least that was how Joseph Campbell concieved of it.
I consider Thor and this channel to be the "Ultimate Guide to Understanding the Force," and by default, Star Wars as a whole. 🙏
The Mortis arc is proven, disney fail to show us a Star Wars.
Now this is Star Wars! Well done Thor! Always look forward to watching your content! MTFBWY
The struggle between light and dark is not between two opposing parts of the Force but within each and every individual person. The Father is a god version of the individual, struggling to maintain balance between their passion and compassion.
I don't understand how there even is a debate. Lucas Himself answered the question saying (paraphrasing) "Balance is having no evil. Balance is everyone looking after one another and living in harmony, which is where mythology played its role by getting a people or a society all on the same page with their ideals and values, and Star Wars is heavily rooted in mythology", so Lucas straight up Himself said "balance is having only the light exist". You're not at perfect health when your body is 50% cancer
Using mythology is not a good idea as there r some were good and evil most both exist 4 harmony
I just remembered that Matt Smith supposed to play Son of Mortis, and I thought how fun the speculation about episode IX was, before the movie released and...
I knew there was a reason why the face of the Grand Inquisitor had a familiar look to it. Lets hope that the _Force_ isn't a video game publisher. _Working as intended_ would have very dire reprucussions.
His species are also on Utapu in ep. 3, where Obi-Wan kills Grievous. But yes, they had a very minor appearance there, so it's understandable not a lot of people realise it. I also only discovered it after quite a lot of rewatchs :D
@@lorinctoth9402 Bruce Spence played Tion Medon as well as pilots in _The Road Warrior_ and _Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome._ I forgot he also played Trainman in _The Matrix Revolutions._ I also saw that he was _The Mouth of Sauron._ I had watched The Mortis episodes when they first came out and the Rebels episodes when the Grand Inquisitor appears when they first came out. No wonder it didn't ring a bell until now.
You could also say no can control everything or you can't have your cake and eat it too.
I've been reading the fate of the Jedi series lately and these Beings instantly came to mind when "The Destroyers" are brought up. Do we know if there's any connection to them?
Easily one of my favorite Clone Wars story arcs.
I'm on board with your interpretation I think, although it can be difficult for me to consider the idea that the "balance" is different when you consider the son and daughter vs when you consider "light side vs dark side". I think that part could use more clarification. In terms of creation and destruction, embracing destruction or death clearly leads to imbalance, but embracing creation or life does too? Or it doesn't? What constitutes being "selfless" in this case? I understand the point that death is a natural part of life, but to where is the line drawn when it comes to determining how much death becomes "excessive" or "unnatural" such that it must be prevented for balance to remain?
Actual constructive conversations and theory of GOOD Star Wars.. God I miss this..
Excellent video.
I thought the episode with the Wills was more to the point. In any case great video!
The Mortis gods are not the whills. The whills are microrganisms even smaller than midichlorians,and they in fact live inside the midichlorians. There're tens of thousands of whills in every midichlorian, and thousands of midichlorians per more complex lifeforms. George Lucas explained this in Paul Duncan's Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 Episodes 1-3.
@@Verebazs That is not what he said he said the Yoda arc helps push the truth about balance better. the In Legends there is a good chance the Ones were Whills since they were told to be which were basically described as the Force and the Ones were said to be what Celestials become it is all vague and this is one way of seeing it.
@@Lord-Emperor-Vader Priestesses are not the Whills either, the point still stands: Lucas explained what the whills are in the second volume of Star Wars Archives.
Legends is licensed fanfiction, utterly irrelevant, especially in the face of a direct quote from Lucas.
@@Verebazs The Priestesses were connected to them in some way.
Also the Legends stuff doesn't contradict anything Lucas said and it is the only explanation we ever got for Mortis. You need to stop being a hateful person because Legends is where you can get most of the best Star Wars stories not from Lucas.
I think you should do a video on the EU book CRUCIBLE. Great insight since the final battle takes place on Mortis in that novel
It's symbolism not literal. Like a dream. No time passes while they are in Mortis for days. Ahsoka "dies" while she is there. The whole thing takes place in an instant and they never speak of it again. It's all there to further prove "why" Anakin is the chosen one.
But, they recognize it happened, Ahsoka talks about the owl in Rebels, and Yoda mentions this event when Qui-Gon speaks to him because Kenobi told Yoda about Qui-Gon talking on Mortis.
I like that explanation too. I personally don't think it explains 'why' as much as it does 'how' Anakin will fall, (abandoning the balance for his chosen priorities, seeking knowledge, etc.) but still a good point
I don’t believe there is such a thing as too much prosperity. When there is balance, I think both in Star Wars and in the real world meaning harmony, that prosperity is a natural result of that and that’s a good thing. The problem with Thanos is that his ideology is not just wrong it’s downright evil, and the fact that he goes so far as to impose that ideology onto others is also evil. And as I said his ideology is plane wrong. It’s the same ideology propped up by people like Paul Ehrlich, who have been proven wrong time and time again.
You are completely correct.
The idea that the jedi were over active confuses me bc the Clone War, separatist confederacy, etc, were designed to scatter and kill the jedi as well as make the Republic want the Empire. Palpatine was using everyone's good will against them, and I blame CW for people forgetting that. They would rather preach what is fashionable "war bad" and "he's a victim of the system" instead of RotS very simple message to be vigilant of others' darker motives and our own darkness.
By far one of the most fascinating stories in Star Wars period. The Mortis Gods connection to the world beyond worlds. Ahsoka’s connection to the Daughter of the force. Who still guides Ahsoka in the form of convor. There’s more to this story that I hope gets explored in the upcoming Ahsoka series.
The foundations of the force
How does living of the Family or their death affects the galaxy? Nohow.
So I assume they are some kind of force prisoners, mighty in the force, but locked in their own space-time continuum.
Abeloth imprisoned, so as the family. May be Force "decided" to lock them because they are to strong and dangerous for the galaxy?
Hey Thor why didn't the Jedi take any action against the nightsisters of Dathomir considering they use the dark side of the force?
That's a good question. It calls the whole "Jedi being an over active amunsystem" argument into question, imo
I think its because they are not inherently the Sith. They are not actively disturbing the will of the Force unlike the Sith who wiped them out. Although I suspect when they started helping the sith like giving them Savage and Maul they put a target on their backs. They study the dark and tap into natural aspects of it.
I do actually wonder if the Daughter, via her nature/personality would eventually end overtaking Mortis without the Son's influence.
Like for example, if the Son represents Death/Decay, Destruction, Passion/Will, etc then surely the Daughter, as the opposite, would be the one to facilitate life, growth, healing etc. But, like if we take an Ecosystem into account, if the Daughter was left to her own devices, would she lead to overgrowth? The Father would have to ensure she doesn't get carried away?
Without Predators (the Son) then other prey animals (the Daughter) would end up overpopulated, causing other problems. Just food for thought
To be honest, I only watched the Mortis Arc to see Darth Ahsoka.
It was nice to see them bring back Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon and Pernilla August as Shmi.
An accurate assessment, although the different perspective I have is that the Daughter and the Son represent two separate experiences and emotions. Two radical and natural opposites in all life, and therefore the Force. Indeed, the Force isn't a Moral force but a Natural force. The Force is ultimately chaos, there is conflict in the Force as there is conflict in Life.
Because the Dark Side that is warned against is Imbalance, which could never be Balanced. The Sith originate from dark side wielders, but they discovered Imbalance and saw it as a source of power. Hence what we see with the modern Sith and their Dark Side.
Easy, Mortis means “Death’s” - singular genitive case of mors.
Wish you threw in abeloth and how she was in mortis. I know she's EU but might be another vid idea
Were the Mortis 'gods' real? Did the battle and the death of the daughter really happen?
I wonder that too. Someone said they thought it was just a vision and a representation of what Anakin will do, and I actually prefer that explanation
Darth sidious called the family as the Mortis Gods in Star Wars rebels
The father is just the fulcrum
You showed a scale, the scale has an axle that the balance arm can pivot about
That central mechanism is the father
Problem is balance isn't an equal balance of dark and light.
While that is one way to look at it, a fulcrum does need to exert any force to keep the two sides in balance - rather they balance themselves out around the fulcrum. This idea clashes with the very active interference of the Father.
@@thorskywalker i am convinced by your explaination that balance is not equal dark and equal light but a truimph of the light side, a truimph over selfishness, it is selflessness. But im sick of pretending that Lucas and Lucasfilm explained this well, there are many contradictions in your explaination and in star wars of balance and the mortis arc, to no fault of your own, you're using your best explaination you can give and you do a better job than most imo, but what you said is still filled with contradictions.
There is more contradictions in star wars than in 2000 year old regious books and the author is still alive😂. Total failure of consistency and communication. Lucasfilm should bring lucas back just so he can start from scratch explaining the force, the light, the darkside, the balance in a guide to star wars book so we can ignore the countless contradictions in canon and focus on that. Right now we are acting like star wars is some theology or complex philosophy when the difficulty in understanding just come from contradictions, incoherent ideas and lack of consistency in star wars.
I think you got a few things wrong here, S6 has Bane because between the making of S3 and S6 they found a way to integrate Sith spirits into the canon, Fact Files elaborates on this, The Spirit of Bane is still the real Bane, but he is nothing more than an illusion, if he’s feared it gives it power to manifest if not then he can’t appear, it’s the fear they feed off of, and TCW sets this up as a precedent for all Sith Spirits
You contradict yourself when you say he's real and an illusion. Literally opposite things. The real Bane is long since dead and gone.
@@thorskywalker Reality is what you believe, if you make it real in your mind it makes it real, that’s the only power the dark side has, fear doesn’t have a priestess it’s an illusion, the dark side is an illusion until you use it and corrupt yourself and make it live, Sith make it live by using it giving power to it.
Touched on a few of these topics in my Master and Apprentice video on my channel if ya wanna see the quotes
As I said, the "real" Bane is long since dead and gone. No matter how afraid Yoda may have become of his remnant, it doesn't bring him back. As being afraid of monsters hiding under your bed doesn't make them real either. The fear may be real to you, but that fear will not manifest them into existence.
@@thorskywalker Let me clarify, “real” Bane died and his spirt was interred in his tomb on Korriban, so that is Bane’s real spirit. being afraid of that spirit allows it it manifest and have power over you, when Yoda doesn’t fear Bane he despawns, Sith spirits are illusions of the Cosmic Force, similar in nature to Nightsisters, so Yoda being afraid of Bane doesn’t just spawn him in from nowhere like monsters under the bed, his spirit was actually there and Yoda’s fear just gives it the power to manifest and affect him, if you don’t fear the dark side (as Yoda learns) then it can’t have power over you, accepting it is there but not fearing it and giving power to it…
“Finally, he was sent to Moraband, the ancient Sith homeworld, and to the valley where the Sith Lords were interred”
-Relaunched Fact File #104
“Yoda encountered the disembodied spirit of Darth Bane in his huge mausoleum. Though dangerous, only fear could grant it power. Yoda was unafraid, calmly dismissing the illusion.”
- Relaunched Fact File #90
“Yoda faced Bane’s spirit but managed to see through the illusion of its existence to travel deeper within the temple.”
- Relaunched Fact File #90
And while we are at it I’ll mention something I think you are getting wrong about balance, Lucas has remained entirely consistent with this, it’s actually a myth in itself that Lucas is so contradictory
The cosmic force is all possible futures, as opposed to the living force which is the present and in the moment, those futures are just ideas influenced by our actions with the Living Force, they are in the mind, which is the issue with the Prequel Jedi they got too caught up in the future and in their minds and neglected the Living Force and what was actually going on around them, (Qui-Gon is commentary on this)
The Cosmic Force is where the dark side lives, in the mind, it’s not real until you make it real, then it corrupts you, it corrupts your living force power, so the dark and light are always there In equal balance in the Cosmic Force, but the Living Force needs to remain pure of the dark side, so it’s not like there needs to be both Sith and Jedi, rather just Jedi who accept the dark side is there but don’t give it power over them, don’t use it, emotions are energies and the dark side spirits need those energies to do anything. The Living Force is Synonymous with the Light Side, Balance is Dark and Light equally present in the Cosmic, Just Light in the Living (no corruption)
Is there more material that goes into the origin of the father, son and daughter? Exactly where they came from, what is their species ( if one can call it a species) why they are so powerful. Did they have a mother? Etc
Not so much in Disney Canon but in the EU there is some lore between the Mortis trio and Abeloth who started as a regular being, unlike the trio.
She had fallen in love with the Father, became his wife as well as step-mother of the Daughter and Son. They all had accepted her as family but due to the nature of the Mortis, they were immortal while she was not.
In desperation to stay with her family, Abeloth tried consuming both aspects of the Dark Side and Light Side which gave her incredible power but also drove her insane.
This is due to them not being two parts of a whole but complete opposites as Thor has mentioned before regarding the Light Side just being the Force itself.
The Mortis couldn't or wouldn't kill her, I dont remember that detail and so trapped her to prevent Abeloth from wrecking havoc across the galaxy.
So, not much in terms of origins for them but I personally do like giving them some familial ties that wasn't explored in TCW.
@Ark1437 yes I'm familiar with Abeloth! Thanks a lot
Hey Thor can you do more videos on why it seems hard to be a Jedi and why it seems like a Jedi can’t have someone that cares about them I mean it does sound that way to me sadly maybe I’m over thinking it but what I mean is that the Jedi trials sound and seem too extreme and are too extreme and that really bothers me about Star Wars
And I also want to state that as much as you’re right about what you say at the same time each Star Wars fan has their own opinions and beliefs on how the force and light and dark sides work and/or should work
Which is why in the EU Luke fixed this.
After Luke bogusly died in Last Jedi, I thought the only way to fix it was to discover that Luke was to be the new "Father" and Kylo and Rey would become the new Son and Daughter... But that would be silly... But better than what we got
That's basically plot of Fate of the Jedi. The problem is Abeloth wants to take Father's place instead.
If you need equal light and dark, why was the Daughter supposedly able to live on in a way through Morai and Ahsoka, while the Son just died, as far as we know at least.
The Daughter wasn't exactly sweetness and cheer. She clearly regarded herself as superior to the three Jedi. Maybe that was part of the point? Just because she represents the Light does not necessarily mean that her goals are peace and happiness for all. The Force is a literal force of nature, and nature can be brutal. Even the Jedi think nothing of dismembering people with lightsabers when a simple blaster set for stun could incapacitate an opponent without maiming them. The threat that she might have posed to the galaxy would have been the same arrogance that the Jedi developed. A conviction that in order to achieve a "Balance" that was really primacy of the Light would make her domineering for the sake of putting an end to the galaxy's seemingly endless conflicts. She was not humble, but instead very much saw herself as a higher power. Thus the Father needed to contain her too. The Daughter may have seemed more obedient to his will, but that was on Mortis. If she could be trusted when the Son could not, then it would have made more sense for the Father to contain the Son alone. Instead, he kept *both* children on Mortis, and openly stated that neither could be allowed to go free.
Mortis is a tho’yor that wanders the galaxy as tython is nothing but a seeing stone now the world between worlds is the same technology only inside Mortis (on the ship) it’s like a force sensitive sentient holodeck 🤷🏼♂️👍🏻
It means that Anakin unknowingly caused his kids and the Galaxy a ton of bunch of problems about about 64 years in the future by killing them when Abeloth escapes.
This a a very well thought-out and worded argument. I’ve also thought for a while that the Son is meant to embody part of the cycle, not the Dark Side itself, and that him being Dark is a result of him falling to temptation.
It’s probably worth mentioning (as you are probably already aware) that the EU tried to spin this story to the Balance = equal Light and Dark angle. Abeloth from Fate of the Jedi was framed as the incarnation of chaos, of the Dark Side unchecked, and the Son and Daughter were framed as equals who reined her in. Troy Denning has acknowledged in an interview that this idea was something he only introduced at the end of the series, though, since he saw a convenient opportunity to tie the series back into The Clone Wars.
Hi, Thor. It's not easy to conduct all my thought on this topic in one short comment, but I'll try. (Partially based on Kreia thoughts + George quotes + basic stuff)
- Force is like a fabric of reality. A 'system code' of a SW universe. And force-sensitivity is a 'bug' in this 'system'. So the ones who wield this 'bug' can feel/sense and affect the universe in very specific way. So dare i must say - You can be ether ForceUSER or ForceABUSER. If you are force-sensitive and do not fall to this categories, you are 'Apathetic'. You do nothing - you cause nothing!
Also i think it's worth to discuss how this 'abusing' is affecting you in return... As far as i know, that was never actually confirmed by George, but i (and many of us here) assume that abusing the Force destroys you mentally and physically. That what they label 'dark side corruption' in many games. Interesting to know your perspective on this mechanics.
Was Mortis the first Jedi?
No it is depending on how you see the episode it is either another realm where the Ones are imprisoned or it is the location where a vision takes place.
I still don't understand these "Force deities." They aren't necessary for the overall story or philosophy of the Force. And in my opinion they only serve to confuse things
I think the son and daughter represent selflessness and selfishness respectively as you mentioned in the video
True to achieve balance you have to keep both of these aspects in check. Selfishness isn't inherently evil unless you give in entirely. The desire to eat is a selfish one but obviously that's not an action that would lead you to the dark side.
I think you are misunderstanding this.
The light said isn’t all “good”. Think of it like this and I hate to say it. Luke said it best. “At the height of their powers the Jedi allowed Darth Sidious to rise to power and wipe them out. It was the jedis fear of the dark side that led to the creation of Vader and other dark side users.
The jedi and the light side can lead to ignorance, detachment from human emotion, creation as a whole eventually needs an endpoint so things don’t spiral out of control. The Jedi would never admit it. The Jedi of the prequel error became too detached and too light side focused that they lost their balance. They had good intentions but because they didn’t even allow the dark side they eventually unintentionally tipped the scales.
The dark side has mainly been used by villans in the show. But look at maul towards the end of rebels. His goals toward the end of rebels were flawed but he wanted the exact same thing that Obiwan wanted and that is for emperor to fall. If you were to ignore what he did in the past and purely looked at what the characters were doing in the present is maul evil just because he uses a different aspect of the force.
Now look at Baylan. A dark side user who doesn’t seek power for just himself. He is a character where the ends justify the means. You can talk about it for hours.
But both light and dark need to be kept in check. Otherwise the one who dominates will eventually lead to utter destruction. Anakin brought balance since he contributed to the fall of the Jedi and the sith. He basically completely wiped the playing field. Sometimes a middle man needs to be brough in to make sure neither one grows too powerful.
Light cannot help to cast shadow.
I was thinking the other day how cool it would have been if Snoke ended up being the Son.
I choose to think of the gods of mortis not as actual beings that can escape but as ideas. Manifestations of the force. Its a lot more lucasian than emo kid, kiss ass daughter and daddy dying that we’re presented with.
I don't care about any of these squabbles. The only thing that is important here is how unbelievably bad an idea it was to give the Force personifications in the first place. This fundamentally violates the nature, role and function of the Force as presented in the OT. Not having a mind or will of its own is precisely why Lucas called it a "force" and NOT "God". And it does not matter in the least if Lucas himself later forgot - or never fully understood in the first place - his original motivation for that act of naming. The name speaks for itself. Ceterum censeo Mortis esse delendam.
That is true.
In my mind, the "will" is likely just the natural order or cycles of the universe, the word "balance" should never have been used, and too many people treat "chosen one" like that makes Anakin right. I think people believing Anakin to be holy is a part of the confusion around the Force, the Dark side, and balance. It isn’t a tragedy or fall anymore. What happened to accountability?
But now the franchise has permanent Mortis and Kreya colored stains on it. I really hope later producers realize how dumb it is
@@ThreadBareHope1234 I hear you, brother, but I have no hope left anymore. At least we still have the OT and the old EU to go back to. "Before the dark times".
This video is still confusing. Damn, George really overcomplicated this simple "movie for kids." And then he pretends adult criticism of his work is not fair because he made these for 12-year olds. What 12-year old will comprehend meaning of Mortis arc on the first watch?
I'm thinking the same thing. My guess is he wanted to introduce simple but good moral concepts to kids then stuff like the Mortus arch made it too complicated.
I think the 2000 years ago timeframe is slightly relevant. Just because that's about how long ago Jesus lived in our world and star wars is jam-packed with messiah metaphors.
I think the dark side the sith use is debatably natural. I think it's like a cancer in the living force. Is a cancer in the body natural? It's certainly not what we would think of as the body working as intended, and if left unchecked a cancer will grow out of control and destroy the whole body.
I think this is what the dark side is, a cancer that naturally rises in the living force, but cannot be left unchecked or it threatens the whole of life. Someone like the father might see this is a natural part of the force to be controlled, whereas Yoda would see it as an error in the force to be corrected.
I think balance is between light and dark, from a certain point of view.
#starwars🎉
#1st
Unpopular opinion: the Mortis arc is actually one of my least favorite arcs in Star Wars. It’s just way too out there for me and kinda ruins the mysticism of the Force.
I would’ve agreed with you when it first came out but it’s grown on me over a few rewatches
I hate it so you don’t have to 🫠✨
You are right.
I get writers need something to put in their comics and there are fans that want to know everything but some of these explanations are too complicated and silly.
Midiclorians? You're overthinking this. Mortis Gods? This isn't Christianity Dave. Kyber crystals are sentient? I rediscovered Star Wars Adventures: Boba Fett and the Ship of Fear trying to find who asked. (Jk, conscious crystals are fine, but it could’ve been simpler)
alI I see is a person who wanted to get out of the control of his overprotective father an his authoritarian sister😡
Never liked Mortis episodes. Redundant story line without any addition to main story plot, messing up with lore and boring characters. It was filler arch. But not fun one.
This isnt even a debate. Balance means equal distribution. Balance absolutely means equal representation between the Dark and Light.
That's LITERALLY what balance means. I'm so tired of people getting this constantly wrong.