Hey Thor, what do you think about this interpretation of Ahsoka's dream sequence: It was a blend of Luke's cave vision from ESB and Cal's Visions on Dathomir in Jedi Fallen Order. "You will only find what you take with you." Not that the World Between Worlds is a dark-side location, but she brought imbalance with her. Thus, Anakin's final lesson was to present himself exactly as Ahsoka thinks of him, that is, he allows her to project what image she's held in her mind and memories, true or not. That's why he speaks so harshly or even callously in her flashbacks, because she's projecting only negative things on who Anakin was. She's forgotten the full person and character of her master. But Anakin makes Ahsoka confront her anger about him, even let her transform him into Darth Vader, and forces a binary question: Live (Fight) or Die (Give up). Ahsoka chooses life, but it's not just her life, it's his too. It's really a 3rd choice: to let go. And Ahsoka lets go of her hate of Darth Vader, and her trauma. Because she does that, Anakin returns to normal. "I knew you'd choose to see the real us. Now go back out there, there's fight still left in you."
Thank you for bringing up that we've seen TWBW more than just in the one episode with Ezra & Ahsoka. I also brought that up on one of yesterday's videos. A lot of fans seem to either forget or be ignorant of those scenes with Ezra & Yoda, Ezra & the Loth wolves, etc. People seem to be putting too much emphasis on the wrong things regarding Anakin & Ahsoka here. We're not going to be explicitly told whether this was in her mind or if she was in that realm, or whether her body was in the water or not. It ultimately doesn't matter, the intent here was moving the Hero's Journey forward and giving her the character progression and growth she needed. I choose to interpret these scenes as Anakin's force essence pulled her in for a teaching moment, and he pushed her back out when it was complete. No physical portal/entrance necessary, just like Ezra has done a few times. I also choose to believe she was physically there in TWBW, else why spend the time with Hera & Teva talking about how there's nothing out there, none of the scanners are picking up anything, they're almost out of fuel, etc.?
On one hand, I think mentioning these scenes does help, Jedi entering this space during meditation makes sense. It's like a mental force hub world where they can sense things from far away. But what would be an interesting use of the World Between, and an opportunity to make it more meaning, is if people can enter it (mentally or physically), see their past experiences to learn more from that experience and be able to have closure, move forward with more understanding, or -- similar to echos-- see events that maybe they weren't there for but has deeply effected you indirectly. Like a Jedi seeing Palpatine's machinations, bcoz it "draws you to things that have meaning to you personally". Their trauma is related to that. Even if it they had closure they could learn from it. On the other there is a lot about how things work that I think could be simplified or left Not over explained. I don't mean to be rude. I just don't like how the inclusion of the Mortis triad or Wills reframes and christian-izes the force as much as I dislike the way Midichlorians reframe the force. Each measuring it by scientific and western understanding, rather than in more simple yet mysterious ways. (And I know someone is going to say 'most religions have Gods, why is this a big deal?'. But I think Lucas was wise to just have the Force and not outrightly favor one religion, so it can be more focused on the people, and you can decide if there is a god in your head canon)
i think the mortis gods have everything to do with the wbw, and i think the reason ezra pulling ahsoka out not having a catastrophic impact on the timeline all comes back to morai and the daughter. Ahsoka died on Mortis and was brought back to life with the daughter’s life force, forever tying the two together. in my opinion that is the reason saving Ahsoka via the wbw is ok while trying to use to save others may not go so smoothly
I still think Star Wars is linear and any manipulations inside the world between worlds have already happened and are fated to happen both at the same time. Which both means Ezra was meant to pull Ahsoka to safety and that Palpatine was never meant to access it
@@jacksparrow9227 Ahsoka died on the planet Mortis and the daughter transferred her life force into Ahsoka. It was after the brother turned Ahsoka to the dark side
I believe she dematerialized (much like Kenobi) & Anakin was literally giving her the CHOICE to join the cosmic Force (or perhaps join him on Mortis, or both, really) and she chose to continue to fight evil in the physical realm. I also feel that Anakin was helping prepare & purify her spirit for an upcoming confrontation.
This is all a really amazing perspective on the subject, though I do think Anakin wasn't giving her the choice between life and death, rather he was helping her regain her will to live so she can survive. If Anakin's goal was to teach her to become a force ghost, I think he would've just gone and done that, just like Obi-wan presumably did with him
@@mar_speedman Right, gotcha. Let me try to phrase that better. I mean that (I think) Ahsoka had several actual options at this point. A. Become one with the force B. become a force ghost C. Take the daughter's place officially D. Go back & fight the good fight in the physical realm. I absolutely believe he was teaching her that lesson, as you say, but I believe that is concurrent to giving her the CHOICE, which is also another lesson of sorts. I mean, he's the chosen one, his lessons can be layered & nuanced, as was his life & method.
I was thinking that ahsoka did die, and her body faded out of our world (like obi wan or yoda) and when anakin was asking if she remembered what happened, he was probing to see if she still had her consciousness. And because she did that gave him the capability to send her back to reality. I'm also hoping that anakin has in a way replaced the father now as the guardian of the wbw's. If so his name of Skywalker could be almost like a title, since the wbw's looks like a night sky with pathways for him to walk about on.
That second bit. Just yes. A much better legacy to that name than what we got in the sequels :D (Sorry I had to mention them) As to the first bit, I would like to point out that you don't fade when you die normally. This is just something Obi-wan and Yoda learned to do. They intentionally moved their consciousness on to the cosmic force, aka, killing themselves. As for what you said about Ahsoka, it mostly makes sense to me, but more in the sense that Ahsoka was dying, not dead. She may have also been transported physically into the world between worlds by Anakin, though, because no one managed to find their body, and they've been looking for a long time. She would've been dead by then if she was in the water for that long
1) Anakin is real. 2) Ahsoka is in the World Between Worlds. 3) If she fails this trial she dies. 4) She was pulled in because this place is a Force Nexus. That is also why Jacen could hear the fight and expand the Force to Hera could too. 5) Hera's body was not in the water until she passed her test which is why the X-Wings couldn't find her 6) When it was time for her to go back Chopper was finally able to ID her location and save her.
Thor, I'm so glad you dropped the 'time travel' take. My thinking is that the WbW has ALWAYS been a nexus, a place where the connecting tissue of reality is bound together. The term 'veil' really REALLY works as a description. Anakin really was there...and it really feels like he was waiting for her. He knew things she didn't...and she knew things he didn't. If he were just a figment of HER imagination, he would only know what she did. This clearly isn't the case. Now the cool thing is that because is she is truly between life and death (which I think WAS the case because when she goes there, there are no gateways), AND because the WbW has no connection to 'time', coming and going would appear to take little to no time. Because there is no passage of external time there, she wouldn't drown in the 'real world' as she would only be 'out' for an eyeblink before returning to consciousness.
It seems a lot of people are really overthinking this whole episode, when really the episode is telling us everything we need to know. We should know that she is in the world between worlds, both because none of the alliance people searching for her could find her visually or on their scopes (and don't until she leaves...and how she leaves is a clue as well) and that Hera's son could here the lightsabers. Neither of these would be the case if this was happening in her mind. I can understand some confusion because Jacen tells Hera Chopper is picking up something on his scopes and gives coordinates, but I think this can be explained by time having no meaning in wbw, so when she starts entering the water is when they can find her on their sensors, and she would enter much more slowly in reality than what she percieves in wbw, giving them time to get to her. We know this is Anakin's force ghost because, well, what else would it be? Besides, when she said she wouldn't fight him, he said he heard that before....he heard it from Luke in ROTJ and is not something she would likely know. I see people confused about what the lesson was, Anakin's behavior being odd, Anakin still struggling with the dark side, etc....again, the episode tells us what's going on. Ahsoka just lost a very important fight. She was very emotionally imbalanced, she used the force in anger, she's clearly been struggling with her sense of failure the entire season so far. Anakin asks her to choose, live or die. He shows her a battle where she feels she's failed because her mistakes have killed people under her command. She's lamenting that this wasn't what she was trained for....it's clear she doesn't feel she is cut out for this and her presence is doing more harm than good. He's teaching both younger and current her that she is a warrior and warriors do what they must, to adapt to circumstance, that ro survive and lead she must fight, or die His joke is a subtle lesson about letting go of her guilt. They go to the Siege of Mandalore, which was hapoening at the same time he became Darth Vader. She asks if being a warrior is all she is, and Anakin tells her she's more than that, part of a legacy of knowledge. She again addresses her failure by saying what Baylon said to her about her and Anakin's legacy, and she confornts him about what he became. Clearly, like Baylon, she thinks their legaies are the same. Anakin tells her she learned nothing and they're starting the lesson over. He says "I gave you a choice, live or die". This is a key line, because it is only then that he chooses to become "Vader", meaning they are each defined by their own choices. As soon as she finally understands, lets go of her guilt and sense of failure, and accepts who and what she truly is, the fight is over, "Vader" is gone, and the lesson is complete. She chose to embrace her power and live rather than be destroyed by her guilt and fear, which Vader symbolized to her. Anakin only showed her what she needed to see. He was never Vader in these moments. Go rewatch with what I said in mind, and I think you'll see what I mean.
Star Wars has become increasingly complex, especially for those like me who haven't watched the animated series. It seems to be evolving into a new direction that doesn't quite resonate with the original six George Lucas films. I find it challenging to enjoy something that has become so intricate, to the point where even dedicated fans can't agree on their interpretations, as seen in the case of Ahsoka's storyline in just one episode.
I hope it doesn't turn into the 5 Nights at Freddie's series. From the handful of videos I've seen the community doesn't even know who the player character is half the time or when the games are set relative to each other. Let alone motivation, backstory, or even identities.
@@steveno7058 It takes roughly 4 more years until Star Wars (1977) turns fifty. Ahsoka was introduced after Prequel trilogy in 2008. For that it takes 5 more years for the first apparence of Ahsoka Tano (Snips) too turn "20" years old. We just need good writers and worth while characters. They don't necessarily have to be "new". This isn't only the case for the SW franchise but movies in general. I hope I didn't confuse you too much with all these numbers.
@@999999SkyGuy I’m not talking about new characters. I’m talking about new concepts like the World Between Worlds. New concepts are needed for a franchise that is nearly 50 years old
I agree with most of your points, but I haven't watched the animated Star Wars shows. Concepts like space whales and the world between worlds remain unclear to me, and it seems like the show doesn't make an effort to explain these to new viewers. Unfortunately, even if they did, I'm not sure if I'd be a fan of these new concepts; space whales appear somewhat silly, and the world between worlds gives me the impression that anything goes, which can be disorienting. Furthermore, there are so many new Force powers and instances where characters don't die, which adds to the complexity.@@steveno7058
I don't think Ashoka's body was in the water while she was in TWBW because otherwise Chopper and Hera would've pick her up with their scan , and also there is no way she would've survived an entire day submerged in that deep ocean
Hey Thor do you think Disney will ever admit that the sequels didn’t have a plan? Personally, as someone who hates them I don’t think they ever will, but what do you think?…
I'm glad someone else realises the WBW has appeared way more times than people think. When Ezra entered in "Shroud of Darkness" he physically vanished like Ahsoka did here. I think Kanans vision was also the WBW, the Grand Inquisitor manifestation of the Force knighting Kanan was very similar to WBW Anakin.
The world between worlds has officially become SW's Speed Force... it can be and do whatever it needs to in order to save the plot... or, as I've put it before: "The world between worlds is a pathway to many plot contrievances, some consider to be... convenient..."
Wrong. It can only be accessed at certain places. It is a place of knowledge and destruction. You can’t time travel in it or gain power. It can give you knowledge but that’s about it.
Like you said I think it’s purgatory a place between life and death. Although Anakin seemed to expect to see her there. Just not that soon. He says he there to finish her training. So I’m not sure if she was meant to die at that point. Or if this was something that was meant to happen. To transition Ahsoka to a higher enlightenment.
To put it simply, it’s practically a portal that travels across time and space, and to be honest, it is used as a plot device that was not hinted from the days of old.
The new "Mortis Gods" theory is pretty cool. Ashoka being saved by the daughter is the new light side one, Ezra being so naturally powerful becomes the new son but doesn't fully let the dark side corrupt him do is more chill than the son was. It is anikin who keeps the balance as the father predicted and can do so as both Jedi and with light and dark and respected by both Ezra and ashoka
Fits with the more than sith eyes after their duel too. Those eyes were downright force god like. We can see both light and dark in the anikin we get too!
Everyone thinks that Anakin is referencing his fight with Luke... but I am pretty sure that Ahsoka said that to Vader in their fight... maybe I am wrong but I don't think so.
If Ahsoka is in the World Between Worlds to once again survive death... the manifestation of Anakin is the manifestation of the Death that befalls Ahsoka if she doesn't fight back to live... to not die of a broken heart, but to keep on fighting... to have something to live for because she has to let go of her lingering guilt. In that essence, I don't think the real Anakin would manifest to do that... it is something more intangible and mysterious than saying that is real Anakin Force ghost imo. The World Between Worlds is huge ass plot armor for Ahsoka that Filoni has granted upon her.
Hey, Thor. Do you think that bringing Galen Marek back into canon and fight Ahsoka would be a good idea? I honestly think it would have much thematic weight having two of Anakin/Vader's apprentices fight which would kickstart a new character arc for Galen. Some people might not want him in canon because he is perceived as "overpowered" (even though canon can be just as over-the-top with the Force as in Legends, such as Palpatine lifting hundreds of Star Destroyers in TROS or Merrin being able to teleport in Jedi Survivor) but he is not OP as some claim, as the video game is deliberately over-the-top for entertainment value while the novelization is the lore version of the story. For example, he only defeated Vader because Force lightning is basically Vader's kryptonite and he did not pull down a Star Destroyer from the sky, he simply steered it out of control until it crashed on its own.
It saves your fanfiction girlfriend so she can continue to become the most important star wars character while never being seen or mentioned in a single movie and being so absent in fact from those movies that TCW's Anakin who trains her is an entirely different character from the revenge of the sith Anakin
Its very smart that Folini isnt explaining the WBW. Hes not writing himself into a corner which star wars has done before. This way he can use it in various way such as time manipulation or memorys or destiny. The fact we dont know means it isnt bound by some "rules" like a lot of other things
Woah, my comment got featured! Thanks for explaining more of your viewpoint on this, I was very interested in hearing it and I think you have a lot of good points (definitely convinced me and made my original comment look stupid hahaha). I look forward to hearing Dave talk more about this stuff as well, I just hope that the way that all of this stuff is utilized and expanded upon sits right with and aligns with George Lucas Star Wars. Thank you Thor!
Hey Thor,do you remember Yoda's warning back in ESB?"The Cave,the CAVE!Remember your failure at the Cave!" .In Luke's trial that would've completed his initial training (one is never too old to learn),he confronted A manifestation of Vader,in which he won..But he failed because he'd shown that he was quick to join a fight, instead of trusting in the Force. The overall meaning of Luke seeing his face in the decapitated helmet of Vader wasn't only a sign that he and Vader were related, but also and more importantly,if he quickly "struck him down,his journey to the Darkside would be complete."..I believe that this is the same thing that happened to Ahsoka,as she was never fully trained,and like Kanan Jarrus in Rebels, she had to face and let go of her doubt,guilt and fears of past experiences to finally be the Jedi she was meant to be..Each Vision Quest is unique to the Padawan, so this was no different. What are your thoughts?
Hi Thor I've got a question ive been wondering about for a long time. Qui-Gon Jin find a way to become a force ghost, he told it to Yoda. Who told it to Obi-Wan. At that time Anakin was already fallen to the dark side. How did Anakin become a force ghost? Even if Luke told him before he died, there was no time for him to train. Just a question
The process of Anakin becoming a force ghost was described in the now non-canon book The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, a 2007 young adult novel written by Ryder Windham. In that book, right after Anakin died, Obi-wan appeared to him and told him that he was in the “netherworld of the Force”, and then Obi-wan told Anakin what he had to do if he wished to reappear to living beings. It’s my understanding that this subject was also covered in the 2023 anthology book called Star Wars: From a Certain Point of View: Return of the Jedi (probably within Mike Chen's "Brotherhood" story.
I think Ezra got the Kyber crystal the same way Rey passed the lightsaber to Ben (Kylo) through the force... as stupid as that was it's the only explanation I got. Yoda passing a lightsaber crystal to Ezra through the force?
What are your thoughts on where Zeb is? A few friends and I that have been watching the series have enjoyed it so far (especially episode 5) but most of our conversations devolve into us just chanting "Give Us Zeb" even though there are much more interesting things going on (Anakin) during the episode. I can't help but feel like Captain Teva's role could have and I think should have been Zeb, especially the scene where he had to stall the new republic fleet for Hera. Is it that he's too expensive to animate? I can't help but feel like something is seriously missing with him not a part of this series especially with him making a cameo in The Mandalorian letting us know he's still around and doing things in the new republic.
The World between Worlds is a giant lever for plot conveniences & fan service. Nothing Anakin could do to save his son though……dude must of been on his holidays when Luke was dying to save his sister & the last Jedi????
If Ahsoka had been in the water the entire time how'd she stay alive without air for all those hours? I think Anakin pulled her in, the same Ezra did, and then pushed her back out
Why was she now not wet, when she was pulled in I remember him also saying that since she remembers what happened that she can be saved Insinuating she was in a place between life and death
But that's even worse. Now every time a good guy is in danger what stops the force ghosts from pulling them to safety? That's just another Holdo maneuver-level hole in the stakes.
@@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149 Seatos is a force nexus, which is why Anakin was able to pull Ahsoka into the World Between Worlds and why Jacen could hear the lightsabers (and expand his hearing to Hera).
@@thebaptistwasherWhen was that stated in the show? Can it happen at any force nexus? If so, let me clarify something. Luke's school, the one we see being destroyed in the sequels, was built at a force nexus. So all of Luke's students who didn't bow to Kylo are OK, right? Force Ghosts pulled all of these innocent children to safety. Because that's clearly what they can do. This episode takes place before the destruction of Luke's order. So force ghosts know they can do that. Or is Anakin once again taking pleasure in killing younglings, while Yoda and Obi-Wan just watch? Now every time a good guy is in danger, on the run, they can just go to the nearest force nexus. Death holds no power over them anymore. Oh right, force Ghosts can also grab lightsabers and throw lightning at people, as established by the sequels. All the steaks are gone. Even more so than before the airing of this episode. No matter how hard you try to fix the problems using your head cannon, everything set after RotJ in the Disney era is full of canyon-sized plot holes, and Dave's meddling doesn't improve the situation whatsoever.
Ezra saved Ahsoka from dying, and it was implied the option to save Kanen was also available. I don't think the World Between Worlds is an illusion or a remnant. The portals seem to be exactly what they are, portals through time and space. Maybe ALL Force Ghosts appear and function that way while there, and are only blue and intangible in the physical world.
This is the correct answer. Right now Filoni’s probably like, “Damn I didn’t even think about her being underwater all that time. Luckily my fans are morons who will never call me on this nonsense.”
I mean if that were the case he could have written that she survived Vader’s fuel. Like…he didn’t have to make her go through the WBW. Not that difficult to keep her alive by surviving a duel.
Hey Thor could you also plain about the whales. Have not watched fully CW or Rebels and these last episode have been bunch of wtf's with WBW and these flying space whales.
I think you’re half right. I think she’s both in the WBW but also physically there on the planet. Chopper was able to find her, right? I liken it to how it was in Rebels season 2 where Kanan Ezra and Ahsoka enter the temple and all 3 have a unique force experience where Kanan teleports into a different dimension, Ezra is in the WBW and connects to Yoda, and Ahsoka hears Anakin. All 3 were there in once place but also not there. I take that stance with Ahsoka I’m this encounter with Anakin. She’s there, but also on the planet in the water still
Hey Thor, I think the force echo thing might hold merit, given what we've seen in Jedi Survivor, with Cere guiding Cal through the abyss. The world between worlds kinda struck me a bit like when Harry died and met Dumbledore in King's Cross station. Do you think
Hey Thor: Concerning Anakin - I believe this may be “Anakin”, but not a Force Ghost or, more accurately, a “Jedi Ghost”. I say this for 2 reasons: (1) No glow/Not tangible - So far (at least to my knowledge) Force Ghosts were not tangible and had a “glow” around them….hence the term ghost. Since this Anakin had neither, I’m reluctant to call him a Force Ghost 🤔 (2) Sith Anakin - If this truly was Force Ghost Anakin, that would make him part of the “Light” side since, again as far as I can remember, no Force Ghost has been a Sith Lord. And, if that is correct, I can’t bring myself to say that a Light side Ghost would go full on Sith on a student simply to teach a lesson. You have unreal insight and I personally would love to hear your thoughts on this as it may be a possibility (as noted in your video) that this was a remnant of Anakin that somehow stayed in the World Between Worlds when Anakin was passing between life and death. This is the way. I have spoken….
I agree on the questionnaire, it feels like it is a vision. But at the same time the fighting with Anakin felt like it was happening in real time. Also if it was a vision Ahsoka must have the biggest lungs ever. It would also have been pointless to use the WBW for a vision, it only confuse does who haven't seen the animated shows. Even if I liked those scenes, it was confusing. But I didn't care.
But how tho? Because I know Ahsoka survived the Vader fight through being pulled by Ezra. But who pulled Ahsoka out of the real world? Anakin?@@steveno7058
I hate the World Between Worlds because turns the Force into something it isn’t nor does it need to be. The Marvel’s Vader comics does the same sort of thing, too, with the Force, with Vader literally using the Force to tear a hole in spacetime at a Dark Side Nexus located somewhere on Mustafar, where his spirit is forced out of his body to walk this strange, twisted plane in an effort to ‘save Padmé’, which goes about as well as it sounds. Another thing, if one could really do these godlike feats with the Force, how come we’ve yet to see or hear of one ancient Sith Lord exploit these sort of feats and thus become much more dangerous. If you wanna follow the Disney-Kennedy Star Wars, that’s one thing, but even you gotta admit that sounds like such a waste of some really cool story potential. Instead, we get the Acolyte, for example; where the Jedi are supposed to be the antagonists but rather than an ‘unreliable narrator approach’, they sound more like lying marauders in an actual genuine sense.
I didn't think this was the World Between Worlds in the Ahsoka series, i assumed it was just an interaction with the force she was having, and that was just the background given by the force, or Anakin, or her own subconscious to the situation. The force can manifest wild things, like in the cave on Dagobah where Luke fought a vision of Vader, so it shouldn't be that big of leap to assume it could give the apperance of the WBW without it actually being that.
Hey Thor! What do you think of the ways Ahsoka seems to be exploring the edges of Force Sensitivity and the Jedi so far? I can't help but notice that Morgan Elsbeth (and maybe Ezra if he appears later) is just about the only "conventional" Force Adept in the story. Ahsoka acts like a Jedi and is trained as one, but keeps denying formal membership. Huyang is a member of Jedi support staff, but as a droid cannot really touch the Force. Sabine is Force Insensitive, and it's dubious whether she's even meant to be a Jedi or if it's more about self-mastery and discipline. Jacen shows more ability though inherited qualities, childhood potential, and possibly cultural osmosis than Sabine has so far with no implied training, but has only shown receptive abilities. And then there's Anakin. Baylan is a fallen knight who's dialogue in ep4 implies he's pulling a Darth Revan. Shin seems like a dark imitation of a Padawan. Marrok was likely a reanimated corpse. Depending on how you count that's 3-4 darksiders in post-Sith galaxy. The show also goes into some of the stranger applications of the Force like Force Ghosts and Visions, psychometry, WBW or hitching a ride in the belly of a star whale. Frankly I'm surprised we haven't heard of Midichlorians or the Living Force yet.
Hey Thor, wondering if you could address this question in your next video. Many have thought that the lesson learned by Ashoka was not impactful enough. Some said it was too easy compared to Luke teaching father in Return and thus Some say it needed some final poignant poetic speech by Anakin to put a pin in this lesson instead of the one line there is still hope for you. Is it the factor that this is kids live action vs. adult live action or can they do both? My opinion is I can see both sides because the series has not ended yet thus it could be just making it simple and leave it at that as a simpler complete circle for 8 year olds as Lucas says was why he made Star Wars for or the lesson will be applied with difficulty to Sabine then Ashoka’s Adult Circle is now complete from 1. stoic out of alignment to 2. Alignment by Anakin to 3. Alignment of Sabine 😊. What do you think?
Great video, speculation with actual facts, very interesting and full of information congratulations, and thank you! I have to say that I disagree with one thing only, you say "its also not impossible...he himself doesn't have all the answers figured out yet" I can asure you that if that was the case he would not be paying with that with a few yers by now, he for sure has a pretty clear idea of whats the WBW is, he did the saga of Mortis with George Lucas in Clonewars so I think they know, George and Dave, what this is really about before even showing it in Rebels. I believe she was physically there, she has now a direct connection with that place, I mean it is more than physical, as you say it is between the physical and cosmic, so when Ahsoka was being covered with the liquid at the end was actually her getting back to the physical world, I believe its pretty clear, how that happened I dont know, but it is just like the clues they give us to know that was the actual Anakin.
Make a theory is difficult because both depictions of the World Between Worlds are different in concept. Or Filoni changed his mind and reimagined the place or are two different "places". To visit s place between life and dead you don't need to find a door in an ancient temple, just to appear there like Ashoka does in the episode 5. On the other hand the World Between Worlds that Ezra visits is found through a Tomb Rider quest, those of Cal Kestis in old temples, to find the door solving puzzles. It's nothing spiritual. So, to me what Ezra visits is an ancient place, beyond time and space, accessible through portals. A relic built by some powerful beings to interact with and manipulate the Cosmic Force on purpose while being alive. Instead Ashoka manifests that place from within the Cosmic Force as a pathway between life and dead.
It's a world in Ahsoka's head, so of course she beat Anakin. Anakin would have told her about the Emperor still being alive if it's real and not just a figment of her imagination.
The comment Anakin makes after Ahsoka says she won't fight him ("I've heard thst before") referencing when Luke said makes me think Anakin wasn't just an echo of her mind. As it wouldn't make sense for her to know the events of ROTJ in thst much detail. At some level I'd like to think it was Anakin. And yeah he didn't act like a normal force ghost because he was The Chosen One. And after his experience with the Mortis Gods it makes complete sense why he was different. That's my take anyway.
Hey Thor what do you think about that at least in Legends that it seemed that Anakin becoming Vader and the Rise Of The Empire was supposed to happen, since it is told in Fate Of The Jedi whenever the flow of time is altered Abeloth would be able to escape from her prison and something as big as the fall of the Chosen One would be big enough to unleash her since what did cause her escape was Jacen Solo's fall to the Dark Side trying to change the future where Darth Krayt took over the Galaxy and turning his daughter to the Dark Side which is basically what Anakin tried to do when he tried to save Padme but failed. Even looking beyond that if he never had the visions he would never had fallen either.
Hey Thor I've seen both stupendous wave's odd theory about anakin became a mortis god vids replacing the father or replacing all 3 of them the thumbnail(of his first mortis annie video)is seriously reddit fan art of anakin the father asoka the sister and fucking starkiller being the brother don't know how you feel about that I kinda strangly like it thee idea of anakin asoka and galen merek the new mortis gods and it would be a respectful way to bring starkiller in D canon rather then inquisator bullshit maybe he is the same galen of F.U. games or timeline or alternate universe crap however mortis theory is unlikey but would be sorta neat in a way
Makes 0 sense either being a Force Ghost or memory that Anakin would not know The Siege of Mandalore considering the last time they saw each other as Anakin and Ahsoka they were legit planning the invasion or whatever
Does being a Force Ghost rely on midichlorian count? No way Anakin would be able to become one if it requires the light side training which Obi-Wan was taught by Yoda between 3 and 4
I don't believe it is the actual WBW, there are no portals. Rather I believe she is in the cosmic force and what she is seeing is a representation of her memories. Anakin is a spirit, he is seeing a representation of Ahsoka's memories but is operating from his own recollections.
There's probably no portals cause the lothal temple is still very much destroyed. It still seems to be connected to different point in time through all that mist
Hey Thor, does the world between worlds confirm that the Star Wars timeline is fixed? Specifically when Ezra went in to the portal and pulled Ahsoka out. My head cannon says no, but I still think it is certainly evidence for it.
The World Between Worlds is, I think, a bit more simple than we make it. It’s just a convergence between life and death where all people, places and things are accessible within but are steered/determined by the life/death of the individual navigating it. Or, ya know, that’s what I’m assuming! Edit: It would seem Thor essentially says this in the video lol, I wrote this before I got there in the video 😋
Hey Thor, recently news has come out that stig asumussen the game director for Jedi fallen order and Jedi survivor has left EA and as a result will not be working on the third Jedi game. Do you think this might have a minor or major blow to not just the third Jedi game but its characters and there future as a whole?…
@@Milothemighty10 I get the feeling that once a sequel was greenlit (especially if a trilogy was greenlit), they wrote survivor with a 3rd game in mind. Maybe that's wishfull thinking.
@@kingofhearts3185 stig himself said “I always wanted to have this as a trilogy” or something along those lines so I don’t think your statement is far off…
@@kingofhearts3185 Star Wars games have a bad history with a third installment the original battlefront games, the newer battlefront games, the force unleashed etc. I really hate to sound like this is doomsday for Jedi 3, but even if it does happen it could be in big trouble…
It's a nice concept, to me anyway, but it could be explained a little more. Don't wanna demystify it like the legend of Korra did with the Avatar and spirit world.
She has to be in the World Between Worlds Anakin has memories of events that she never experienced like Luke saying he will not fight her and him not knowing about the siege of Mandalore. If he was part of her mind then he would know all that she knows and would not know things she never experienced. He was in a physical form since it exists outside of time and space so death does not apply here. My personal theory is that Mortis was a massive illusion used to keep the World Between Worlds hidden and once the Ones died the illusion dropped.
For all the people who are asking "Are Star War fans this easy to please?" The answer is "YES! Yes we are! That's the point!" Star Wars is not complicated. It a fairy tale with lasers. Make some vague statement about good and evil, have your character suffer and loose before to achieving a goal and do it all with style. That's it. That's all we want. Not to say you can't do more with it. But baseline for pleasing us is very very low. You have to be a special kind of incompetent mess up Star Wars. Was this a great episode or even good episode? No, but it had style and it didn't actively go out of its way to insult me. Doing something more with Star Wars would be great, but achieving baseline is something. That being said, while Star Wars fans are very easy to please, I don't know if we are equally easy to forgive. Supporting baby steps forward means that you want to see more Star Wars, and honestly I don't know if I do. All the positives association I had with Star Wars a decade ago has been overwritten by really bad experiences. Emotionally, I don't think I want any more Star Wars. Even good Star Wars. This is not "too little too late," it's just too late.
Dude, just read some of the stories that Disney haven’t actually said where canon some of those stories are kind of out there, and I love them but no I’m not gonna explain this because it takes too long, the world around the world between worlds connects with every timeline. Every thing that has happened in Star Wars from the beginning so in theory, it is a warm hole that connects all events. That’s why it seems so massive and black and why it seems like there’s so many branching paths it gets more complicated to explain, because depending on your understanding the forest more paths become open to you. That’s how I understand it.
Also, everyone seems to think that every time someone goes into the world between worlds that there are portals to other places. I am pretty sure that was just the Lothal Jedi Temple that had those gates.
Something to keep in mind with Filoni: there are probably some vague concepts he is still working with that he got half explained to him by George Lucas.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881I think this video makes sense of this pretty well, and it lines up with what I was thinking after watching the episode. I’m not sure what part of any of this you think is nonsense?
Why would you introduce this into Star Wars, knowing full well that you can affect time and space and possibly create new timelines. Ashoka being saved by Ezra has already changed the timeline. And yes I still hope that this world between worlds will retcon Disney trilogy, atleast in my canon it does.
Filoni said that the timeline of Ahsoka going in the first time was always supposed to happened. Her destiny was never to die there - and then be saved and have the timeline changed. She was always supposed to be saved. WBW - to Filoni - would have been a place of knowledge. Library. Could you try to affect a portal? Sure. But most people have enough consideration to how much chaos that could create - and as far as we know, have not done so.
It’s a magical bs story telling device and my least favorite thing that has been created in a while within Star Wars. Aka Filoni’s crutch. He’s leaving it mysterious because if he actually tried to explain it, most people would call bs on him.
It isn’t all in Ahsoka’s head. Hera and Jacen heard Ahsoka fighting Anakin. Also Anakin told her ‘I heard that before’. Referring to what Luke said to Anakin. Ahsoka has no knowledge of Luke telling Vader ‘I will not fight you’
To me, it was just a cheap way for Filoni to have his cake and eat it to aka Having Ahsoka fight Vader and live. She was robbed of a really good death, and now we have some pseudo time travel bs that apparently isn’t time travel (it is)
It isn’t time travel. You have to return to the same time period you came from. Yes you can view the past and maybe the future. But no one knows if you can really change things.
"Did Anakin reach out in a critical moment to help Ahsoka what she needed to survive and reconcile with her past? -nah just a hallucination. what we saw did not really happen" 🙃
She was not in world between worlds this was all in her head. Life was flashing before her eyes including all places she's been before in her lifetime. Anakins ghost visited her or not?? doubt we will ever know & thats ok. Just like our afterlife is not explained so should the force.
Hey Thor, what do you think about this interpretation of Ahsoka's dream sequence:
It was a blend of Luke's cave vision from ESB and Cal's Visions on Dathomir in Jedi Fallen Order. "You will only find what you take with you." Not that the World Between Worlds is a dark-side location, but she brought imbalance with her. Thus, Anakin's final lesson was to present himself exactly as Ahsoka thinks of him, that is, he allows her to project what image she's held in her mind and memories, true or not. That's why he speaks so harshly or even callously in her flashbacks, because she's projecting only negative things on who Anakin was. She's forgotten the full person and character of her master. But Anakin makes Ahsoka confront her anger about him, even let her transform him into Darth Vader, and forces a binary question: Live (Fight) or Die (Give up). Ahsoka chooses life, but it's not just her life, it's his too. It's really a 3rd choice: to let go. And Ahsoka lets go of her hate of Darth Vader, and her trauma. Because she does that, Anakin returns to normal. "I knew you'd choose to see the real us. Now go back out there, there's fight still left in you."
6:50 the world between worlds really rhymes with
Luke: "What's in there?"
Yoda: "Only what you take with you"
Yeah idk why certain people have issue with the WBW being a weird mystical concept. The Force was always like that, from the start.
Thank you for bringing up that we've seen TWBW more than just in the one episode with Ezra & Ahsoka. I also brought that up on one of yesterday's videos. A lot of fans seem to either forget or be ignorant of those scenes with Ezra & Yoda, Ezra & the Loth wolves, etc.
People seem to be putting too much emphasis on the wrong things regarding Anakin & Ahsoka here. We're not going to be explicitly told whether this was in her mind or if she was in that realm, or whether her body was in the water or not. It ultimately doesn't matter, the intent here was moving the Hero's Journey forward and giving her the character progression and growth she needed. I choose to interpret these scenes as Anakin's force essence pulled her in for a teaching moment, and he pushed her back out when it was complete. No physical portal/entrance necessary, just like Ezra has done a few times.
I also choose to believe she was physically there in TWBW, else why spend the time with Hera & Teva talking about how there's nothing out there, none of the scanners are picking up anything, they're almost out of fuel, etc.?
On one hand, I think mentioning these scenes does help, Jedi entering this space during meditation makes sense. It's like a mental force hub world where they can sense things from far away. But what would be an interesting use of the World Between, and an opportunity to make it more meaning, is if people can enter it (mentally or physically), see their past experiences to learn more from that experience and be able to have closure, move forward with more understanding, or -- similar to echos-- see events that maybe they weren't there for but has deeply effected you indirectly. Like a Jedi seeing Palpatine's machinations, bcoz it "draws you to things that have meaning to you personally". Their trauma is related to that. Even if it they had closure they could learn from it.
On the other there is a lot about how things work that I think could be simplified or left Not over explained. I don't mean to be rude. I just don't like how the inclusion of the Mortis triad or Wills reframes and christian-izes the force as much as I dislike the way Midichlorians reframe the force. Each measuring it by scientific and western understanding, rather than in more simple yet mysterious ways.
(And I know someone is going to say 'most religions have Gods, why is this a big deal?'. But I think Lucas was wise to just have the Force and not outrightly favor one religion, so it can be more focused on the people, and you can decide if there is a god in your head canon)
i think the mortis gods have everything to do with the wbw, and i think the reason ezra pulling ahsoka out not having a catastrophic impact on the timeline all comes back to morai and the daughter. Ahsoka died on Mortis and was brought back to life with the daughter’s life force, forever tying the two together. in my opinion that is the reason saving Ahsoka via the wbw is ok while trying to use to save others may not go so smoothly
Seems legit
I still think Star Wars is linear and any manipulations inside the world between worlds have already happened and are fated to happen both at the same time. Which both means Ezra was meant to pull Ahsoka to safety and that Palpatine was never meant to access it
Wasn't she killed by the brother and they all died?
@@jacksparrow9227 Ahsoka died on the planet Mortis and the daughter transferred her life force into Ahsoka. It was after the brother turned Ahsoka to the dark side
@@Jaykurosakii I meant the 3 Gods died
I believe she dematerialized (much like Kenobi) & Anakin was literally giving her the CHOICE to join the cosmic Force (or perhaps join him on Mortis, or both, really) and she chose to continue to fight evil in the physical realm. I also feel that Anakin was helping prepare & purify her spirit for an upcoming confrontation.
This is all a really amazing perspective on the subject, though I do think Anakin wasn't giving her the choice between life and death, rather he was helping her regain her will to live so she can survive. If Anakin's goal was to teach her to become a force ghost, I think he would've just gone and done that, just like Obi-wan presumably did with him
@@mar_speedman Right, gotcha. Let me try to phrase that better. I mean that (I think) Ahsoka had several actual options at this point.
A. Become one with the force
B. become a force ghost
C. Take the daughter's place officially
D. Go back & fight the good fight in the physical realm.
I absolutely believe he was teaching her that lesson, as you say, but I believe that is concurrent to giving her the CHOICE, which is also another lesson of sorts.
I mean, he's the chosen one, his lessons can be layered & nuanced, as was his life & method.
I was thinking that ahsoka did die, and her body faded out of our world (like obi wan or yoda) and when anakin was asking if she remembered what happened, he was probing to see if she still had her consciousness. And because she did that gave him the capability to send her back to reality. I'm also hoping that anakin has in a way replaced the father now as the guardian of the wbw's. If so his name of Skywalker could be almost like a title, since the wbw's looks like a night sky with pathways for him to walk about on.
That second bit. Just yes. A much better legacy to that name than what we got in the sequels :D (Sorry I had to mention them)
As to the first bit, I would like to point out that you don't fade when you die normally. This is just something Obi-wan and Yoda learned to do. They intentionally moved their consciousness on to the cosmic force, aka, killing themselves.
As for what you said about Ahsoka, it mostly makes sense to me, but more in the sense that Ahsoka was dying, not dead. She may have also been transported physically into the world between worlds by Anakin, though, because no one managed to find their body, and they've been looking for a long time. She would've been dead by then if she was in the water for that long
Listening to you describe the episodes is better then the episodes themselves.
Good for you. You can cancel your Disney plus subscription
@@steveno7058 I love living in a sanctioned country, we don't pay for watching D+ so we're less disappointed but equally excited for different shows
@@steveno7058What's that? Going Seven Seas is the smart way to go
@@angelperez1014 More like he makes better content than the actual show
@@steveno7058 I did after the first two episodes of Ashoka. I am being 100% sincere.
1) Anakin is real.
2) Ahsoka is in the World Between Worlds.
3) If she fails this trial she dies.
4) She was pulled in because this place is a Force Nexus. That is also why Jacen could hear the fight and expand the Force to Hera could too.
5) Hera's body was not in the water until she passed her test which is why the X-Wings couldn't find her
6) When it was time for her to go back Chopper was finally able to ID her location and save her.
Thor, I'm so glad you dropped the 'time travel' take. My thinking is that the WbW has ALWAYS been a nexus, a place where the connecting tissue of reality is bound together. The term 'veil' really REALLY works as a description.
Anakin really was there...and it really feels like he was waiting for her. He knew things she didn't...and she knew things he didn't. If he were just a figment of HER imagination, he would only know what she did. This clearly isn't the case.
Now the cool thing is that because is she is truly between life and death (which I think WAS the case because when she goes there, there are no gateways), AND because the WbW has no connection to 'time', coming and going would appear to take little to no time. Because there is no passage of external time there, she wouldn't drown in the 'real world' as she would only be 'out' for an eyeblink before returning to consciousness.
It seems a lot of people are really overthinking this whole episode, when really the episode is telling us everything we need to know. We should know that she is in the world between worlds, both because none of the alliance people searching for her could find her visually or on their scopes (and don't until she leaves...and how she leaves is a clue as well) and that Hera's son could here the lightsabers. Neither of these would be the case if this was happening in her mind. I can understand some confusion because Jacen tells Hera Chopper is picking up something on his scopes and gives coordinates, but I think this can be explained by time having no meaning in wbw, so when she starts entering the water is when they can find her on their sensors, and she would enter much more slowly in reality than what she percieves in wbw, giving them time to get to her.
We know this is Anakin's force ghost because, well, what else would it be? Besides, when she said she wouldn't fight him, he said he heard that before....he heard it from Luke in ROTJ and is not something she would likely know.
I see people confused about what the lesson was, Anakin's behavior being odd, Anakin still struggling with the dark side, etc....again, the episode tells us what's going on.
Ahsoka just lost a very important fight. She was very emotionally imbalanced, she used the force in anger, she's clearly been struggling with her sense of failure the entire season so far. Anakin asks her to choose, live or die. He shows her a battle where she feels she's failed because her mistakes have killed people under her command. She's lamenting that this wasn't what she was trained for....it's clear she doesn't feel she is cut out for this and her presence is doing more harm than good. He's teaching both younger and current her that she is a warrior and warriors do what they must, to adapt to circumstance, that ro survive and lead she must fight, or die His joke is a subtle lesson about letting go of her guilt.
They go to the Siege of Mandalore, which was hapoening at the same time he became Darth Vader. She asks if being a warrior is all she is, and Anakin tells her she's more than that, part of a legacy of knowledge. She again addresses her failure by saying what Baylon said to her about her and Anakin's legacy, and she confornts him about what he became. Clearly, like Baylon, she thinks their legaies are the same. Anakin tells her she learned nothing and they're starting the lesson over. He says "I gave you a choice, live or die". This is a key line, because it is only then that he chooses to become "Vader", meaning they are each defined by their own choices.
As soon as she finally understands, lets go of her guilt and sense of failure, and accepts who and what she truly is, the fight is over, "Vader" is gone, and the lesson is complete. She chose to embrace her power and live rather than be destroyed by her guilt and fear, which Vader symbolized to her.
Anakin only showed her what she needed to see. He was never Vader in these moments.
Go rewatch with what I said in mind, and I think you'll see what I mean.
100% agree👍
JJ Filoni loves mystery boxes! 😉
It is Filonis' Deus Ex Machina for him to protect Ahsoka from dying and only her.
What is the World Between Worlds? It's a plot device. How does it work? However Filoni wants it to at any given moment.
Star Wars has become increasingly complex, especially for those like me who haven't watched the animated series. It seems to be evolving into a new direction that doesn't quite resonate with the original six George Lucas films. I find it challenging to enjoy something that has become so intricate, to the point where even dedicated fans can't agree on their interpretations, as seen in the case of Ahsoka's storyline in just one episode.
I hope it doesn't turn into the 5 Nights at Freddie's series. From the handful of videos I've seen the community doesn't even know who the player character is half the time or when the games are set relative to each other. Let alone motivation, backstory, or even identities.
Star Wars is almost 50 years old. If new things aren’t introduced things will get stale. It isn’t that complex. Alot of it is open to interpretation
@@steveno7058
It takes roughly 4 more years until Star Wars (1977) turns fifty.
Ahsoka was introduced after Prequel trilogy in 2008.
For that it takes 5 more years for the first apparence of Ahsoka Tano (Snips) too turn "20" years old.
We just need good writers and worth while characters.
They don't necessarily have to be "new".
This isn't only the case for the SW franchise but movies in general.
I hope I didn't confuse you too much with all these numbers.
@@999999SkyGuy I’m not talking about new characters. I’m talking about new concepts like the World Between Worlds. New concepts are needed for a franchise that is nearly 50 years old
I agree with most of your points, but I haven't watched the animated Star Wars shows. Concepts like space whales and the world between worlds remain unclear to me, and it seems like the show doesn't make an effort to explain these to new viewers. Unfortunately, even if they did, I'm not sure if I'd be a fan of these new concepts; space whales appear somewhat silly, and the world between worlds gives me the impression that anything goes, which can be disorienting. Furthermore, there are so many new Force powers and instances where characters don't die, which adds to the complexity.@@steveno7058
I don't think Ashoka's body was in the water while she was in TWBW because otherwise Chopper and Hera would've pick her up with their scan , and also there is no way she would've survived an entire day submerged in that deep ocean
Hey Thor do you think Disney will ever admit that the sequels didn’t have a plan? Personally, as someone who hates them I don’t think they ever will, but what do you think?…
I'm glad someone else realises the WBW has appeared way more times than people think.
When Ezra entered in "Shroud of Darkness" he physically vanished like Ahsoka did here.
I think Kanans vision was also the WBW, the Grand Inquisitor manifestation of the Force knighting Kanan was very similar to WBW Anakin.
She is in the WBW. Ezra used ethernet. Ahsoka used wifi
The world between worlds has officially become SW's Speed Force... it can be and do whatever it needs to in order to save the plot... or, as I've put it before: "The world between worlds is a pathway to many plot contrievances, some consider to be... convenient..."
Wrong. It can only be accessed at certain places. It is a place of knowledge and destruction. You can’t time travel in it or gain power. It can give you knowledge but that’s about it.
Like the force itself since 1977
Like you said I think it’s purgatory a place between life and death. Although Anakin seemed to expect to see her there. Just not that soon. He says he there to finish her training. So I’m not sure if she was meant to die at that point. Or if this was something that was meant to happen. To transition Ahsoka to a higher enlightenment.
It IS an Star Wars way tô retcon anything without having tô explain much. It used tô save characters that should be dead and never by The villains
To put it simply, it’s practically a portal that travels across time and space, and to be honest, it is used as a plot device that was not hinted from the days of old.
Ezra's kyber crystal could have came from the temple itself.
The new "Mortis Gods" theory is pretty cool. Ashoka being saved by the daughter is the new light side one, Ezra being so naturally powerful becomes the new son but doesn't fully let the dark side corrupt him do is more chill than the son was. It is anikin who keeps the balance as the father predicted and can do so as both Jedi and with light and dark and respected by both Ezra and ashoka
Fits with the more than sith eyes after their duel too. Those eyes were downright force god like. We can see both light and dark in the anikin we get too!
Thank you, much needed clarification. I was definitely a little confused.
Everyone thinks that Anakin is referencing his fight with Luke... but I am pretty sure that Ahsoka said that to Vader in their fight... maybe I am wrong but I don't think so.
She said “I won’t leave you”. Then proceeded to fight
If Ahsoka is in the World Between Worlds to once again survive death... the manifestation of Anakin is the manifestation of the Death that befalls Ahsoka if she doesn't fight back to live... to not die of a broken heart, but to keep on fighting... to have something to live for because she has to let go of her lingering guilt. In that essence, I don't think the real Anakin would manifest to do that... it is something more intangible and mysterious than saying that is real Anakin Force ghost imo. The World Between Worlds is huge ass plot armor for Ahsoka that Filoni has granted upon her.
Ok, that is all nice... but they missed the chance to tie Legends timeline into World Between Worlds again... :/
Hey, Thor. Do you think that bringing Galen Marek back into canon and fight Ahsoka would be a good idea? I honestly think it would have much thematic weight having two of Anakin/Vader's apprentices fight which would kickstart a new character arc for Galen. Some people might not want him in canon because he is perceived as "overpowered" (even though canon can be just as over-the-top with the Force as in Legends, such as Palpatine lifting hundreds of Star Destroyers in TROS or Merrin being able to teleport in Jedi Survivor) but he is not OP as some claim, as the video game is deliberately over-the-top for entertainment value while the novelization is the lore version of the story. For example, he only defeated Vader because Force lightning is basically Vader's kryptonite and he did not pull down a Star Destroyer from the sky, he simply steered it out of control until it crashed on its own.
When I thought on it, I got that 'The World between Worlds' is THE TEMPLE OF THE COSMIC FORCE. I tend to listen to my instincts.
It saves your fanfiction girlfriend so she can continue to become the most important star wars character while never being seen or mentioned in a single movie and being so absent in fact from those movies that TCW's Anakin who trains her is an entirely different character from the revenge of the sith Anakin
WBW’s is a plot hole invented by Dave Baloni to save his love child Ahsoka
Its very smart that Folini isnt explaining the WBW. Hes not writing himself into a corner which star wars has done before. This way he can use it in various way such as time manipulation or memorys or destiny. The fact we dont know means it isnt bound by some "rules" like a lot of other things
Woah, my comment got featured! Thanks for explaining more of your viewpoint on this, I was very interested in hearing it and I think you have a lot of good points (definitely convinced me and made my original comment look stupid hahaha). I look forward to hearing Dave talk more about this stuff as well, I just hope that the way that all of this stuff is utilized and expanded upon sits right with and aligns with George Lucas Star Wars. Thank you Thor!
Hey Thor,do you remember Yoda's warning back in ESB?"The Cave,the CAVE!Remember your failure at the Cave!" .In Luke's trial that would've completed his initial training (one is never too old to learn),he confronted A manifestation of Vader,in which he won..But he failed because he'd shown that he was quick to join a fight, instead of trusting in the Force. The overall meaning of Luke seeing his face in the decapitated helmet of Vader wasn't only a sign that he and Vader were related, but also and more importantly,if he quickly "struck him down,his journey to the Darkside would be complete."..I believe that this is the same thing that happened to Ahsoka,as she was never fully trained,and like Kanan Jarrus in Rebels, she had to face and let go of her doubt,guilt and fears of past experiences to finally be the Jedi she was meant to be..Each Vision Quest is unique to the Padawan, so this was no different. What are your thoughts?
Hi Thor I've got a question ive been wondering about for a long time.
Qui-Gon Jin find a way to become a force ghost, he told it to Yoda. Who told it to Obi-Wan. At that time Anakin was already fallen to the dark side. How did Anakin become a force ghost? Even if Luke told him before he died, there was no time for him to train.
Just a question
The process of Anakin becoming a force ghost was described in the now non-canon book The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, a 2007 young adult novel written by Ryder Windham. In that book, right after Anakin died, Obi-wan appeared to him and told him that he was in the “netherworld of the Force”, and then Obi-wan told Anakin what he had to do if he wished to reappear to living beings.
It’s my understanding that this subject was also covered in the 2023 anthology book called Star Wars: From a Certain Point of View: Return of the Jedi (probably within Mike Chen's "Brotherhood" story.
Really good points and it being a limbo of storts would fit the name perfectly as you are not between life and the after life.
Exactly!
I think Ezra got the Kyber crystal the same way Rey passed the lightsaber to Ben (Kylo) through the force... as stupid as that was it's the only explanation I got.
Yoda passing a lightsaber crystal to Ezra through the force?
What are your thoughts on where Zeb is? A few friends and I that have been watching the series have enjoyed it so far (especially episode 5) but most of our conversations devolve into us just chanting "Give Us Zeb" even though there are much more interesting things going on (Anakin) during the episode. I can't help but feel like Captain Teva's role could have and I think should have been Zeb, especially the scene where he had to stall the new republic fleet for Hera. Is it that he's too expensive to animate? I can't help but feel like something is seriously missing with him not a part of this series especially with him making a cameo in The Mandalorian letting us know he's still around and doing things in the new republic.
Disney Star Wars really needs a Yellow Flash.
“It was me, Ahsoka”
Hope you are happier tomorrow
I my mind the force cave on Dagobah was also the WBW.
The World between Worlds is a giant lever for plot conveniences & fan service.
Nothing Anakin could do to save his son though……dude must of been on his holidays when Luke was dying to save his sister & the last Jedi????
If Ahsoka had been in the water the entire time how'd she stay alive without air for all those hours?
I think Anakin pulled her in, the same Ezra did, and then pushed her back out
Why was she now not wet, when she was pulled in
I remember him also saying that since she remembers what happened that she can be saved
Insinuating she was in a place between life and death
That does make more sense
But that's even worse. Now every time a good guy is in danger what stops the force ghosts from pulling them to safety? That's just another Holdo maneuver-level hole in the stakes.
@@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149 Seatos is a force nexus, which is why Anakin was able to pull Ahsoka into the World Between Worlds and why Jacen could hear the lightsabers (and expand his hearing to Hera).
@@thebaptistwasherWhen was that stated in the show? Can it happen at any force nexus? If so, let me clarify something. Luke's school, the one we see being destroyed in the sequels, was built at a force nexus. So all of Luke's students who didn't bow to Kylo are OK, right? Force Ghosts pulled all of these innocent children to safety. Because that's clearly what they can do. This episode takes place before the destruction of Luke's order. So force ghosts know they can do that. Or is Anakin once again taking pleasure in killing younglings, while Yoda and Obi-Wan just watch? Now every time a good guy is in danger, on the run, they can just go to the nearest force nexus. Death holds no power over them anymore. Oh right, force Ghosts can also grab lightsabers and throw lightning at people, as established by the sequels. All the steaks are gone. Even more so than before the airing of this episode. No matter how hard you try to fix the problems using your head cannon, everything set after RotJ in the Disney era is full of canyon-sized plot holes, and Dave's meddling doesn't improve the situation whatsoever.
Ezra saved Ahsoka from dying, and it was implied the option to save Kanen was also available. I don't think the World Between Worlds is an illusion or a remnant. The portals seem to be exactly what they are, portals through time and space. Maybe ALL Force Ghosts appear and function that way while there, and are only blue and intangible in the physical world.
Dave filoni doesn’t even know dude just made it up to keep his OC alive
This is the correct answer. Right now Filoni’s probably like, “Damn I didn’t even think about her being underwater all that time. Luckily my fans are morons who will never call me on this nonsense.”
I mean if that were the case he could have written that she survived Vader’s fuel. Like…he didn’t have to make her go through the WBW.
Not that difficult to keep her alive by surviving a duel.
I wish they had animated the Purrgil with stop-motion.
Hey Thor could you also plain about the whales.
Have not watched fully CW or Rebels and these last episode have been bunch of wtf's with WBW and these flying space whales.
Hey Thor I believe they are in the world between worlds because the scanners said nothing was there repeatedly and only Jason could Sense them
I think you’re half right. I think she’s both in the WBW but also physically there on the planet.
Chopper was able to find her, right?
I liken it to how it was in Rebels season 2 where Kanan Ezra and Ahsoka enter the temple and all 3 have a unique force experience where Kanan teleports into a different dimension, Ezra is in the WBW and connects to Yoda, and Ahsoka hears Anakin.
All 3 were there in once place but also not there.
I take that stance with Ahsoka I’m this encounter with Anakin.
She’s there, but also on the planet in the water still
Either way the show is entertaining :^)
Hey Thor, I think the force echo thing might hold merit, given what we've seen in Jedi Survivor, with Cere guiding Cal through the abyss. The world between worlds kinda struck me a bit like when Harry died and met Dumbledore in King's Cross station. Do you think
Hey Thor why do you think there are so many people against the idea of that really being Anakin's Force ghost?
Alternatively, Ahsoka herself could be a portal there BECAUSE she was pulled in and wouldn't be living after fighting Vader otherwise.
Hey Thor: Concerning Anakin - I believe this may be “Anakin”, but not a Force Ghost or, more accurately, a “Jedi Ghost”. I say this for 2 reasons:
(1) No glow/Not tangible - So far (at least to my knowledge) Force Ghosts were not tangible and had a “glow” around them….hence the term ghost. Since this Anakin had neither, I’m reluctant to call him a Force Ghost 🤔
(2) Sith Anakin - If this truly was Force Ghost Anakin, that would make him part of the “Light” side since, again as far as I can remember, no Force Ghost has been a Sith Lord. And, if that is correct, I can’t bring myself to say that a Light side Ghost would go full on Sith on a student simply to teach a lesson. You have unreal insight and I personally would love to hear your thoughts on this as it may be a possibility (as noted in your video) that this was a remnant of Anakin that somehow stayed in the World Between Worlds when Anakin was passing between life and death.
This is the way. I have spoken….
I agree on the questionnaire, it feels like it is a vision. But at the same time the fighting with Anakin felt like it was happening in real time. Also if it was a vision Ahsoka must have the biggest lungs ever.
It would also have been pointless to use the WBW for a vision, it only confuse does who haven't seen the animated shows. Even if I liked those scenes, it was confusing. But I didn't care.
I just need an explanation of how and why Ahsoka survived. This whole world between worlds confuse me a lot
She survived because she was pulled into another dimension of time and space. When she was fighting Anakin her body was not in the water
But how tho? Because I know Ahsoka survived the Vader fight through being pulled by Ezra. But who pulled Ahsoka out of the real world? Anakin?@@steveno7058
That’s because it is stupid nonsense.
It doesn't matter. It's nonsense. All of it. Filoni doesn't even kno wtf he is doing.
@@anthonyplanzo1082 As a casual fan I could genuinely not be more confused. This ain’t Star Wars for me sorry
Jacen heard the sabers. That tells me she’s really in the WbW.
This world between worlds, force gods. Is exactly why i could never fully get into clone wars and rebels
I hate the World Between Worlds because turns the Force into something it isn’t nor does it need to be. The Marvel’s Vader comics does the same sort of thing, too, with the Force, with Vader literally using the Force to tear a hole in spacetime at a Dark Side Nexus located somewhere on Mustafar, where his spirit is forced out of his body to walk this strange, twisted plane in an effort to ‘save Padmé’, which goes about as well as it sounds. Another thing, if one could really do these godlike feats with the Force, how come we’ve yet to see or hear of one ancient Sith Lord exploit these sort of feats and thus become much more dangerous.
If you wanna follow the Disney-Kennedy Star Wars, that’s one thing, but even you gotta admit that sounds like such a waste of some really cool story potential. Instead, we get the Acolyte, for example; where the Jedi are supposed to be the antagonists but rather than an ‘unreliable narrator approach’, they sound more like lying marauders in an actual genuine sense.
I didn't think this was the World Between Worlds in the Ahsoka series, i assumed it was just an interaction with the force she was having, and that was just the background given by the force, or Anakin, or her own subconscious to the situation.
The force can manifest wild things, like in the cave on Dagobah where Luke fought a vision of Vader, so it shouldn't be that big of leap to assume it could give the apperance of the WBW without it actually being that.
What would be the point? Just do a normal vision. Visuals tell a story too, not just dialogue.
I'm just so happy fans can talk about star wars lore and content again rather than the Disney behind the curtain BS politics.
Hey Thor!
What do you think of the ways Ahsoka seems to be exploring the edges of Force Sensitivity and the Jedi so far? I can't help but notice that Morgan Elsbeth (and maybe Ezra if he appears later) is just about the only "conventional" Force Adept in the story.
Ahsoka acts like a Jedi and is trained as one, but keeps denying formal membership. Huyang is a member of Jedi support staff, but as a droid cannot really touch the Force. Sabine is Force Insensitive, and it's dubious whether she's even meant to be a Jedi or if it's more about self-mastery and discipline. Jacen shows more ability though inherited qualities, childhood potential, and possibly cultural osmosis than Sabine has so far with no implied training, but has only shown receptive abilities. And then there's Anakin.
Baylan is a fallen knight who's dialogue in ep4 implies he's pulling a Darth Revan. Shin seems like a dark imitation of a Padawan. Marrok was likely a reanimated corpse. Depending on how you count that's 3-4 darksiders in post-Sith galaxy.
The show also goes into some of the stranger applications of the Force like Force Ghosts and Visions, psychometry, WBW or hitching a ride in the belly of a star whale. Frankly I'm surprised we haven't heard of Midichlorians or the Living Force yet.
I agree with the commenter guy you started the video on
Hey Thor, wondering if you could address this question in your next video. Many have thought that the lesson learned by Ashoka was not impactful enough. Some said it was too easy compared to Luke teaching father in Return and thus Some say it needed some final poignant poetic speech by Anakin to put a pin in this lesson instead of the one line there is still hope for you. Is it the factor that this is kids live action vs. adult live action or can they do both? My opinion is I can see both sides because the series has not ended yet thus it could be just making it simple and leave it at that as a simpler complete circle for 8 year olds as Lucas says was why he made Star Wars for or the lesson will be applied with difficulty to Sabine then Ashoka’s Adult Circle is now complete from 1. stoic out of alignment to 2. Alignment by Anakin to 3. Alignment of Sabine 😊. What do you think?
Great video, speculation with actual facts, very interesting and full of information congratulations, and thank you! I have to say that I disagree with one thing only, you say "its also not impossible...he himself doesn't have all the answers figured out yet" I can asure you that if that was the case he would not be paying with that with a few yers by now, he for sure has a pretty clear idea of whats the WBW is, he did the saga of Mortis with George Lucas in Clonewars so I think they know, George and Dave, what this is really about before even showing it in Rebels.
I believe she was physically there, she has now a direct connection with that place, I mean it is more than physical, as you say it is between the physical and cosmic, so when Ahsoka was being covered with the liquid at the end was actually her getting back to the physical world, I believe its pretty clear, how that happened I dont know, but it is just like the clues they give us to know that was the actual Anakin.
Has it ever been said where or when Ahsoka emerged from the world between worlds after being saved by Ezra?
She returned through the same portal back on Malachor.
As for when? Idk.
Make a theory is difficult because both depictions of the World Between Worlds are different in concept. Or Filoni changed his mind and reimagined the place or are two different "places". To visit s place between life and dead you don't need to find a door in an ancient temple, just to appear there like Ashoka does in the episode 5. On the other hand the World Between Worlds that Ezra visits is found through a Tomb Rider quest, those of Cal Kestis in old temples, to find the door solving puzzles. It's nothing spiritual. So, to me what Ezra visits is an ancient place, beyond time and space, accessible through portals. A relic built by some powerful beings to interact with and manipulate the Cosmic Force on purpose while being alive. Instead Ashoka manifests that place from within the Cosmic Force as a pathway between life and dead.
It's a world in Ahsoka's head, so of course she beat Anakin.
Anakin would have told her about the Emperor still being alive if it's real and not just a figment of her imagination.
So how did Hera and Jacen hear Ahsoka fighting? How did Ahsoka know that Luke told Vader ‘I will not fight you’
For sure think Jacen hearing it means it wasn't in her head.
@@brandynharter23Chopper the Droid didn't hear it so it was all imaginary. He heard the waves.
The comment Anakin makes after Ahsoka says she won't fight him ("I've heard thst before") referencing when Luke said makes me think Anakin wasn't just an echo of her mind. As it wouldn't make sense for her to know the events of ROTJ in thst much detail. At some level I'd like to think it was Anakin. And yeah he didn't act like a normal force ghost because he was The Chosen One. And after his experience with the Mortis Gods it makes complete sense why he was different.
That's my take anyway.
Hey Thor what do you think about that at least in Legends that it seemed that Anakin becoming Vader and the Rise Of The Empire was supposed to happen, since it is told in Fate Of The Jedi whenever the flow of time is altered Abeloth would be able to escape from her prison and something as big as the fall of the Chosen One would be big enough to unleash her since what did cause her escape was Jacen Solo's fall to the Dark Side trying to change the future where Darth Krayt took over the Galaxy and turning his daughter to the Dark Side which is basically what Anakin tried to do when he tried to save Padme but failed. Even looking beyond that if he never had the visions he would never had fallen either.
Hey Thor I've seen both stupendous wave's odd theory about anakin became a mortis god vids replacing the father or replacing all 3 of them the thumbnail(of his first mortis annie video)is seriously reddit fan art of anakin the father asoka the sister and fucking starkiller being the brother don't know how you feel about that I kinda strangly like it thee idea of anakin asoka and galen merek the new mortis gods and it would be a respectful way to bring starkiller in D canon rather then inquisator bullshit maybe he is the same galen of F.U. games or timeline or alternate universe crap however mortis theory is unlikey but would be sorta neat in a way
Makes 0 sense either being a Force Ghost or memory that Anakin would not know The Siege of Mandalore considering the last time they saw each other as Anakin and Ahsoka they were legit planning the invasion or whatever
but tell me the door was closed so how will we see it again do you think we will see it in rey skywalker movie
Does being a Force Ghost rely on midichlorian count? No way Anakin would be able to become one if it requires the light side training which Obi-Wan was taught by Yoda between 3 and 4
How i understand, world between worlds, is some kind of chamber between universes, but i have not idea how it works🤔
I think you're spot on, Thor.
This episode was a real treat for anyone who likes philosophy.
Great explainer. This is why I love your channel
I believe the World Between Worlds is The Force.
I don't believe it is the actual WBW, there are no portals. Rather I believe she is in the cosmic force and what she is seeing is a representation of her memories. Anakin is a spirit, he is seeing a representation of Ahsoka's memories but is operating from his own recollections.
There's probably no portals cause the lothal temple is still very much destroyed. It still seems to be connected to different point in time through all that mist
Exactly!
I like World Between Worlds as more of an afterlife Purgatory, rather than some interstitial space that can be accessed through portals at will 🤷🏻♂️
Isn’t when he said I heard that before referring to their duel in Rebels?
Nope. Ahsoka told Vader ‘I will not leave you’ in Rebels
Hey Thor, does the world between worlds confirm that the Star Wars timeline is fixed? Specifically when Ezra went in to the portal and pulled Ahsoka out. My head cannon says no, but I still think it is certainly evidence for it.
The World Between Worlds is, I think, a bit more simple than we make it. It’s just a convergence between life and death where all people, places and things are accessible within but are steered/determined by the life/death of the individual navigating it. Or, ya know, that’s what I’m assuming!
Edit: It would seem Thor essentially says this in the video lol, I wrote this before I got there in the video 😋
Hey Thor, recently news has come out that stig asumussen the game director for Jedi fallen order and Jedi survivor has left EA and as a result will not be working on the third Jedi game. Do you think this might have a minor or major blow to not just the third Jedi game but its characters and there future as a whole?…
We can only hope they left behind an outline for the story and it will be done well. Knowing EA, I wish them all well.
@@kingofhearts3185 Jedi 3 is more than likely in it’s baby stage of development but yes hopefully there is at least an outline…
@@Milothemighty10 I get the feeling that once a sequel was greenlit (especially if a trilogy was greenlit), they wrote survivor with a 3rd game in mind. Maybe that's wishfull thinking.
@@kingofhearts3185 stig himself said “I always wanted to have this as a trilogy” or something along those lines so I don’t think your statement is far off…
@@kingofhearts3185 Star Wars games have a bad history with a third installment the original battlefront games, the newer battlefront games, the force unleashed etc. I really hate to sound like this is doomsday for Jedi 3, but even if it does happen it could be in big trouble…
It's a nice concept, to me anyway, but it could be explained a little more. Don't wanna demystify it like the legend of Korra did with the Avatar and spirit world.
What is it? A soft magic system!
How does it work? However the hell the writers will need it to work from here on out!
No they don’t. All the secrets of the Force will never be known
Ashoka already fought him in rebels.
If I wanted to watch Space Whales I will just watch Star Trek: The Voyage Home
She has to be in the World Between Worlds Anakin has memories of events that she never experienced like Luke saying he will not fight her and him not knowing about the siege of Mandalore. If he was part of her mind then he would know all that she knows and would not know things she never experienced. He was in a physical form since it exists outside of time and space so death does not apply here. My personal theory is that Mortis was a massive illusion used to keep the World Between Worlds hidden and once the Ones died the illusion dropped.
For all the people who are asking "Are Star War fans this easy to please?" The answer is "YES! Yes we are! That's the point!" Star Wars is not complicated. It a fairy tale with lasers. Make some vague statement about good and evil, have your character suffer and loose before to achieving a goal and do it all with style. That's it. That's all we want. Not to say you can't do more with it. But baseline for pleasing us is very very low. You have to be a special kind of incompetent mess up Star Wars.
Was this a great episode or even good episode? No, but it had style and it didn't actively go out of its way to insult me. Doing something more with Star Wars would be great, but achieving baseline is something.
That being said, while Star Wars fans are very easy to please, I don't know if we are equally easy to forgive. Supporting baby steps forward means that you want to see more Star Wars, and honestly I don't know if I do. All the positives association I had with Star Wars a decade ago has been overwritten by really bad experiences. Emotionally, I don't think I want any more Star Wars. Even good Star Wars. This is not "too little too late," it's just too late.
Dude, just read some of the stories that Disney haven’t actually said where canon some of those stories are kind of out there, and I love them but no I’m not gonna explain this because it takes too long, the world around the world between worlds connects with every timeline. Every thing that has happened in Star Wars from the beginning so in theory, it is a warm hole that connects all events. That’s why it seems so massive and black and why it seems like there’s so many branching paths it gets more complicated to explain, because depending on your understanding the forest more paths become open to you. That’s how I understand it.
It's a plot device to keep Ashoka alive. She was killed by Darth Vader.
Also, everyone seems to think that every time someone goes into the world between worlds that there are portals to other places. I am pretty sure that was just the Lothal Jedi Temple that had those gates.
Something to keep in mind with Filoni: there are probably some vague concepts he is still working with that he got half explained to him by George Lucas.
Filoni’s nonsense can never be his own fault
@@donkeysaurusrex7881I think this video makes sense of this pretty well, and it lines up with what I was thinking after watching the episode. I’m not sure what part of any of this you think is nonsense?
Why would you introduce this into Star Wars, knowing full well that you can affect time and space and possibly create new timelines. Ashoka being saved by Ezra has already changed the timeline. And yes I still hope that this world between worlds will retcon Disney trilogy, atleast in my canon it does.
Filoni said that the timeline of Ahsoka going in the first time was always supposed to happened.
Her destiny was never to die there - and then be saved and have the timeline changed.
She was always supposed to be saved.
WBW - to Filoni - would have been a place of knowledge. Library. Could you try to affect a portal? Sure. But most people have enough consideration to how much chaos that could create - and as far as we know, have not done so.
The writers have no clue what it is.
It’s a magical bs story telling device and my least favorite thing that has been created in a while within Star Wars. Aka Filoni’s crutch. He’s leaving it mysterious because if he actually tried to explain it, most people would call bs on him.
Will the World Between Worlds introduce the Star Wars Multiverse? Or will it stick to basic time travel?
I think Filioni has said its not a time travel device.
@@TyroneLT oh
none, "perhaps its time to begin the video again".
No time travel. Filoni mentioned you need to return to the same time period you came from. But you can see things from the past and maybe change them.
@@steveno7058 cool
It isn’t all in Ahsoka’s head. Hera and Jacen heard Ahsoka fighting Anakin. Also Anakin told her ‘I heard that before’. Referring to what Luke said to Anakin. Ahsoka has no knowledge of Luke telling Vader ‘I will not fight you’
To me, it was just a cheap way for Filoni to have his cake and eat it to aka Having Ahsoka fight Vader and live. She was robbed of a really good death, and now we have some pseudo time travel bs that apparently isn’t time travel (it is)
It isn’t time travel. You have to return to the same time period you came from. Yes you can view the past and maybe the future. But no one knows if you can really change things.
"Did Anakin reach out in a critical moment to help Ahsoka what she needed to survive and reconcile with her past?
-nah just a hallucination. what we saw did not really happen"
🙃
She was not in world between worlds this was all in her head. Life was flashing before her eyes including all places she's been before in her lifetime. Anakins ghost visited her or not?? doubt we will ever know & thats ok. Just like our afterlife is not explained so should the force.
How is Jacen hearing the lightsaber fight then?