Rating the Logic of AoE2's Military Techs
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- I'm not an archer (these are not my bows; first time using them), so I'm not saying that this is good archery form.
And yes, Palfrey, Courier and Destrier aren't horse breeds in the modern sense. They are rather types of horses for specific use.
![Let's build the most over-powered civs possible! [AoE2]](/img/1.gif)
The fact that SOMEONE on YT makes videos like this is a blessing. Please please keep uploading!
Ah, fancy seeing you here!
@@PhoenixAlaris93 heheheh yeah, very in character!
Arson represents Organized Arson rather then just random building burning. Also when thinking about HP, think of it not just as the unit's ability to take damage but the unit's ability to fight overall, including moral and stamina.
I agree with your take. That makes Bloodlines look even better, as it definitely would increase a warhoses ability to fight (and not run away etc.)
I think parthian tactics should have 3/5 because pathian tactics were "invented" much earlier than what is imperial age in the game
I don't see the sword infantry as disconnected from nobility. I see the Millitia to longswordmen to be basic man at arms but from the 2handed swordmen to the Champion , they are connected to the elite troops of the army, thus for Western European civs the Champions ..to me represent knights on foot, Hospitalars/Templars and especially Teutonic knights, they all had squires, thus Squires fits perfectly for the sword line.
A squire will never cause a horse to run faster. For balance and history , I feel Squires is superb.
I really enjoyed the Archery lesson part.
I too love doing archery but I only practice the Medieval Longbow technique. I also know about the drawing techniques of the Japanese Yumi but I never knew about the Mongol CA draw method. Highly interesting. I learned something from you. I thank you good sir.
Fun video.
bro, I was just really wishing for you to upload again, loved your first two videos
Thanks for the support! I continue doing this. It just takes quite some time to make those, so I cant upload very often
@@armchairsaurus If the quality goes up, then I don't mind the quantity going down. I find your accent funny how you put a ump, sound, at the end of thumb, when the b is silent
@@dontspikemydrink9382 it is silent???!
@@armchairsaurus yeah
I would love you to finish this first, and then go with the unique units. I think you talked about the extremes in the unique technologies enough already
Noted. Tbh I would have most fun continuing with the general tech tree review
@@armchairsaurus so, go with that like I suggested :P
@@armchairsaurus hope you are doing well, neighbour
@@dontspikemydrink9382 Thanks, absolutely!
and you?
Perhaps surprisingly, learning how to conduct arson effectively WAS something armies could learn and be good/bad at. During the 100 Years War (eg: the Joan of Arc campaign) English cavalry got very good at doing a lot of damage very quickly....
Hmm... Maybe the tech should apply to cavalry, not just infantry?
Supplies is actually make historical sense. Without supplies, your soldiers sacks nearby villages, so villagers escape with their loads. If you set up supplies, you hire villagers, villagers give your food for gold and they also carry all the supplies. So the army gains both more food and labour. Historical sources mention that their army starved because the soldiers behaved undisciplined and plundered nearby villages. Of course, there is no logical explanation for the food to only affect the Champion-line.
I love This kind of aoe2 content👌I’m so happy I found this channel,please keep up the good work🙏🏻💪🏼
Very nice vid, definatley looking foward to the next one.
If I may offer a suggestion, it would have been really interesting if you compared which civs had those techs vs those who don't, and explain if those civs would or wouldn't of had those techs historically.
It would indeed. However there are two problems with that
-It would make the video muuch longer
-it would require massive amount of research considering we have 40+civs (or do you know from the top of your head if Koreans used Thum Ring and if Gurjaras were proficient in Masonry?)
...thats why I left it out:)
@@armchairsaurus Yeah true. It would take way too long to research.
@@armchairsaurus, maybe it could be a separate video in the future.
really great video man, thank you for putting so much effort into it. Looking forward to binging the rest of your videos :)
Thank You, man! glad people still come back to this vid. Just getting motivated to start the next unique unit video, after I let that series idle for a while
Thank you for such a great video with explanation of REAL effect of game technologies. Your RUclips channel is a real brilliant.
Great video! Love it! I wanted to talk about thumb rings..
It's also my understanding that thumb ring was basically only in asia. I have been shooting bow for almost 40 years now. I've built my own bows including ones designed to shoot with a thumb ring (arrow rest on opposite side). Having learned to shoot this way I actually much prefer it. I would argue it could very well by more accurate as it is basically a form of mechanical release. The ease of a consistent release that doesn't rotate the string or brush it to the side in an inconsistent way. It's more similar to the mechanical releases used by hunters with compound bows, which are very much proven to be more accurate. I would argue the olympic reasons are more historic than anything else. Anyway, there's wiggle room there :)
I guess in the context of horse archery.. I think you almost wouldn't be able to shoot Mediterranean - the arrow would just fall off the rest all the time. The thumb grip locks the arrow to the bow if you so choose. I wonder if that's why it gives "100% accuracy", which is comical in itself actually :). Anyway, it's definitely very regionally specific and doesn't really apply to foot archers.. I don't know if it was ever used by foot archers, why would you when you can have a horse?? :)
afaik thumb rings were also used by foot archers. the reason it is somewhat associate to horse archers is because horse archers basically always use it (since - as you pointed out - from horse back you can shoot only in the mongolian way)
Looking at the in game picture for thumb ring, perhaps the devs thought it was a device that went on the bow hand to give the archer an arrow rest instead of using their own hand(thumb knuckle). If shooting the arrow from draw hand side
After lots of shots, the fletching scratching your hand each loose can get it to feel a bit sore. So I can see the potential use.
That might have been the thought process. But even if it was, that kind of thron sticking out never existed (afaik)
I'm wondering how many arrows you've shot that your hand got sore from the fletching scratching it. I've never had that issue, certainly I've had more issues with muscular pain from just holding the bow against each draw, and that's with a normal (non war) recurve bow
@@afz902k tbh i can't remember, but my experience as a kid using a homemade bow with homemade arows, a sore thumb from terrible quality arrows going over it proably happened
Informative and enlightening as always. Glad I found this channel!
Just discovered you... Great videos... I am certain I will have gone thru yopuor whole You Tube collection in the next few days. KUDOS!!!
Thanks:) enjoy, take your time
I LOVED the outside demonstration, i can see future videos having more of that and doing silly stuff
Also analizing the historical veracity of the campaings and the historical backround of civilizations aswell as the actual representation of them ex. Where britons came from, their cities, enemies, development, and who are they now, where all that tea came from and how it correlates with the in game content.
You may not be an historian but you certainly have chosen the path of one, amazing videos, super chill, funny and accurate at the same time.
Thanks for the feedack:) indeed, there are endless possibilities to historically analyze. step by step
That video was just amazing. You are a blessing for the aoe community :)
RE: Parthian shot, I think the Parthian show having more attack vs Pike-man refers to the common steppe tactic of luring an enemy into chasing you while firing backwards at them. Specifically bringing to mind such misadventures as Crassus and his legions being peppered by the Parthians.
possibly, but then why particularly against pikeman and not infantry? And even then, I would say that the luring trick was targeting usually other horsemen. No infantry man would seriously try to chase a horse archer:)
@@armchairsaurus true, but In general tactics such as the parthian retreat, the caracole, and other horse archer tactics that would harass enemy formations, gradually breaking their morale.
Pikemen are trash units in game, and are implied to be levies, seeing how they cost no gold, so maybe the implication is that since they aren't professional soldiers they are more suspectable to the morale draining effect steppe nomad tactics would have?
I know im reaching, but hey
Blood lines is so important you are right its underrated
HHF once again going over techs. Delicious.
Great video, but I don’t think thumb ring affects ballista elephants, unless you’ve discovered something new about the game
Yep it doesn't, my mouth was faster than my mind. But the point still stands, that it affect many units which dont even use a bow
This video was great, I hope you do more of these
Very insightful and interesting. Thank you for making these videos. Keep up the good work!
Fun to watch, as are most of your vids.
I would argue that is was more difficult for you to hit the target using the thumbdraw only because you have not used the thumbdraw enough.
I don't think Olympic archers would be less accurate using the release devices that modern bow users have (the one where you release by turning the hand slightly) - but even so, they might be worse with those in the very beginning. Muscle memory is most important.
Both this and bracer are only okay-ish as an AOE tech, so I agree with your evaluation.
Thanks! You have to consider that Im also not used to the 3 finger draw. Im not an archer:) So for me both was a cold start and 3 finger draw felt by a wide margin easier to aim. But yeah, this is just my preference
This guy just goes out of his way to have a bow to show off how things don't make sense in a video game. Amazing
My interpretation of the Supplies tech is that by organising the supply chain, you can be more efficient with the total amount of food.
To make a comparison with weaponry, if the commandment would supply the weapons, they can buy a bunch that would be done in a standardised way, could get a bunch of materials for everything at once.
In the case of the food, the lord could be able to buy a lot of grain and stock in a dry place, avoiding losses, maybe get food from a different place of the country that has better crops, avoiding to have the surrounding area with nothing.
For the Squires tech, I think it could be something like Marching Drills instead.
that would make more sense. But then it should be called like this
@@armchairsaurus, I didn't notice that my previous comment could be ambiguous.
I meant that they should have changed to Marching Drills, not as an explanation.
@@thomasfplm I got you. Maybe my reply was ambiguous. I meant "the devs should do as you say"
Nice work man, keep it up
It has been proved that you can shoot a bow with the mediterranean-style draw on either side of a bow. Infact I have done it myself. We even have artwork of archers shooting on eather side.
yes its possible. Its just not the most common way
@@armchairsaurus It has some advantages for example being faster to shoot and also ester to draw.
Thank you so much for new knowledge! i try to study on this.
Next on the shopping list: A webcam (and perhaps a Thumb Ring?)
and a better microphone, it is awful. your first videos were really well made, but the sound was the one thing holding it back, 4/5 stars
I'd suggest continuing with this format to complete all the techs of the common tech tree
amazing video! can't wait for the next video (still very curious about stone shaft mining)
I like at least that the unit that benefits the most of Thumb Ring (according to Spirit of the Law) is the cavalry archer!
Yes that is a very fitting coincidence. Was thinking about pointing it about but I think I left it out to not stretch the video
Nice! Like the idea of your videos! :)
Love the videos, there's so much historical content you can sink your teeth in with aoe2 but I' wondering if you're also planning to do some simular videos for aom
Thank you. AoM is honestly not very high on the list allthough I loved it as a child and I'm a huge fan of in particular greek mythology. But I'm not playing it anymore currently and also the player/viewerbase is really small. But mayb that could change with AoM DE?!
@@armchairsaurus Hopefully it enjoys a bit of a revival, keep up the great videos, they're an absolute joy to watch!
Thumb Ring would increase accuracy be virtue of giving the archer a bit more time to aim.
Lovely channel, keep the good work man!
Great video! Keep up the good content
Okay, but.
How historically accurate is the bonus damage units do?
Mostly kind of accurate. But what always bothers me is that Genoese crossbowmen have a bonus against cavalry, but rather they should have a bonus vs archers. Their huge Pavese shields were to hide from enemy ranged fire, whereas against cavalrymen, Genoese crossbowmen didnt have that much to offer.
@@armchairsaurus i can taste great new videos, please take good care of yourself
You have a nice channel brother, keep going. And maybe you can do collabs with actual historical RUclipsrs who specialize in medieval weaponry.
would love to. Im watching many of them. But I think I have to grow a bit first
Need more videos like this
after a longer break im working on the next one
The monastry technologies should be fun to do. I suspect this is great for herbal medicine.
Tbh for the majority of monastery technologies it is super difficult to seriously judge them, because they are so...untangible
@@armchairsaurus Sounds like next years video for the 1st of April.
Now just finding a way to do it respectfully for those that do believe in those kinds of things.
Good and interesting video. Well done
Shadiversity has quite a few videos on drawing an arrow on the same vs. opposite side of the bow with the Mediterranean draw. My impression from those videos is that those two techniques both require adaptations in different directions, but both can be learned to a good level and both were probably prominent in medieval archery. The inside draw seems to achieve higher precision in olympic archery, while the outside draw seems to be easier for drawing 200+ pound bows. Neither of these two things sound particularly relevant in medieval warfare.
Oh thanks I wasnt aware. Just from trying out myself. I found the outside draw very unstable. But then again, I dont have any practice
@@armchairsaurus The two variations require a pretty different technique, and a lot of corrections that you do for the inside draw are things you have to avoid doing for the outside draw. I think a big part is tilting the bow to get gravity to help the arrow stay on
@@iwersonsch5131, yeah, I would suspect that if you're used to one style you'd be less precise if you attempt using the other all of sudden.
I don't remember who name, but there is a guy who made a video about indigenous people in the us that would shoot really fast and with quite good precision, about the same as the guns of that time, and that they used a grip similar to the Mongolian one, so he attempted to train that way and he concluded that it could be really effective.
Edit: I think this was the video I saw, but it seems there are many others similar.
ruclips.net/video/liHlCRpS70k/видео.html
The AoM OST tho
And another amazing video
Do unique units next
I whould defend supplies in the baseis that you pay 75 Food and 75 Gold. You practicly prepare to mass infantry. Maybe a better name for it whould be "rations" since if you took the food question to your own hands by handing out rations. The food consumptions could be more efficient, therefore cheaper.
I wonder if the damage against the spear line from Parthian Tactics might be a nod towards horse archer civilisations dominating slower infantry units even more.
And here I thought thumb rings were used on the left hand
and now I know why, the picture shows a left hand. So either archers are left handed or forgotten empires messed up again
riiight, i didnt catch that. Another mistake of the devs. Im getting the feeling that at microsoft office the historical advisors and the icon designers dont sit very close to each other
Please fix the closed captions, it is clear some are wrong, where words are added or not there. Some misspellings too. Lol, I misspelled, too..
You are right! Thanks for pointing this out. I made many adjustments. Sometimes though I leave out few words intentionally, when there are just the result of stuttering
@@armchairsaurus for accessibility for deaf people, it is fine if you write what you said, even if it is a mistake.
Squires could also refer to the squires themselves entering the field as infantry (which they often did). And maybe they are faster since they have to follow their masters on horseback... ok maybe a little lost on the faster part
Squires could also refer to Squirrels, entering the field as SquirrelOfDoom;)
@@armchairsaurus 😂😂😂
How about explaining the university tech next?
when continuing with the generally available techs, I will proceed in the order of the tech tree. trying to have some structure:)
As a kid I thought of squires as my infantry getting faster by being surfs 11
surfs?
do you mean serfs?:)
no, surfs, medieval totally radical boarders on the waves. @@armchairsaurus
For someone who has a Korean bow it's funny you don't know about Korean thumb rings... The thumb ring pictured is a Korean style "male" thumb ring. Totally historical.
never stop learning about the Koreans
Parthian tactics is effective against pikemen, because they are infantry and do not have shields, i.e. moving on foot behind the archer cavalry and have no shield to protect from arrows.
What you described explains why the CA unit itself has bonus damage vs spearmen. Yes they do good damaga against them because they have no shields. But that is true in any case. No shooting while moving (parthian tactics) needed for this
I think an argument could be made that thumb ring could improve accuracy over prolonged periods of shooting. Since it's putting less strain on the thumb each draw compared to drawing without one, you would probably be able to fire more accurately over longer periods of time compared to someone without one, assuming both are using the mongolian technique
Yes, an argument could be made. But I think it would be a bit of a far stretch.
@@armchairsaurus what? That was the reason it was used in the first place
@@dontspikemydrink9382 it was used in the first place as a protection, not to shoot more accurate
So would a better name for Husbandry be Squires?
Right, I would absolutely say so. And a better name for Squires would be Supplies.
@@armchairsaurus I would say that Squires could be changed for Marching Drills, and that Husbandry and Blodlines could be swapped.
Husbandry includes taking care of the health of the animals, so they would be less likely to die.
Blodlines could be to select faster animals.
It would still be generic, but I think would make more sense than what is now.
Pls continue the serie
after a longer break im working on the next one. thanks for the motivation and patience:)
Just commenting for the algorithm 11
I am new to the community. This is Dave, right?
11
Somes are totally on point somes are just funny if you know the concept. Could be nice to see more diverse archer line as arbalests should be rather very powerful and slowly firing slodiers, skirmishers should do more damage overall and thumbring definitely does not help you fire crossbow. I guess that its just too much overwork for the game mechanics thats used. But well said.
you DO know that knights went to battle on foot as well right???
and then they walked faster because of squires?
Don't u think that it soldiers should have torches when attacking buildings and siege? For the cav with spears, they should be flaming
Siege - no.
Buildings - yeah that could make sense. AoE 3 is like that. but it looks a bit clunky
@@armchairsauruswell realistically speaking i don't want to be the army blacksmith repairing weapons used to destroy onagers...wood has too much stopping power for the regular sword and spear
when melee units attack siege i wouldnt imagine that they try to cut the wood but rather the ropes or the crew. This is even illustrated in the AoE2 intro cinematic (the original one) where some knights attack a trebuchet (they cut the ropes)@@MoRDekai1364
Great video.
But I have to disagree with the last 2 ratings. Thumb ring hitting 1/2 effects perfectly is enough for 3 stars, especially relative to some other techs. Parthian tactics, however, completely miss the effect (+ armor) and it makes no sense... Can't get more than 3 stars! Just IMO.
well the thing that the thum bring itself is actually not bringing any of the 2 effect. it is the mongolian shot that allows faster shooting. And parthian tactics +armor can be interpreted as higher survivability by being mobile and evasive in battle
@@armchairsaurus, it would make more sense for Parthian Tactics to increase speed and/or fire speed and/or reduce the frame delay of the attack.
And it wouldn't make sense to affect elephant archers, witch they do. 😆
I personally prefer the scripted format
Still experimenting. Writing the script and adapting it whenever I have new ideas just takes a loooot of time and effort.
@@armchairsaurus you did well in this video.
9:40 wrong you can easly draw the arrow on right hand and have the arrow at the right site of the bow (even without the mongolien grib) and its no problem after practising it aroun 20 times. also hystorical effedicne suggsest that they drawed the weapon most of the time on the right site of the bow becaus faster and more efficent (arrow left site of the bow big advantage is taking aim
against 2D non moving targets to perferct for olympia for realy life use its just worse. rest nice video
I found it much more straight forward to do as I described. And at least in the presence, this is the default way. Ofc it might very well be that in the past they were tilting the bow or similar to make same sided draw possible with the mediterranean
@@armchairsaurus there are many people out there who shoot both ways in histroy both is shown, so ill think both ways are accuarte the way i descirbeed is jsut a little frauned oppn by the archer community and is for fast shooting better (so for battlefield conditions its preferable but not by a lot :D but shaadiversity and larsanders have both nice videos to the topic
The stupidest tech that you didin't talked about is how the champion have more health and armor that the men at arms while not having a shield
Besides that im not covering unit upgrades, champions having more health and armor actually is historically accurate. Throughout the middle ages, shields became smaller and smaller until they completely disappeared (on knights! not talking about light infantry) because plate armor became so good that shields were simply not needed
would be fun if longswordsman had 2 pierce armor due to that, I think we´d see a lot of them in games :D
wtf...why should archers not be affected by the effect of the thumb ring? Total BS. Also there are a lot of ways to draw a bow and on of them includes having the arrow on the far side and still not pulling with a thumb ring (just look at Kyuudo). So either you do your research or stop talking about stuff you have no idea about.