I asked on the MoErgo discord awhile back about a solution to finding your ideal tenting position each time you move it for travel, and their recommendation was to put a nut on the leg screw, find your ideal position, tighten the nut up the leg to the base of the keyboard to act as a marker, and then when traveling just unscrew the leg entirely from the board and screw it back in up to where the nut is when reassembling it. Not a perfect solution, but it should work as long as you don't lose the leg during travel.
I had a 360 and a Moonlander... and now two months on the Glove80. And I say I'll never going back. In stead... I just ordered a 2nd one for commuting. Best keeb ever!
I like glove80's design philosophy, i.e. elegant, super light, functional, no fat, and meticulous engineering to achieve it. If a product has premium feel for the sake of it (such as matching color screws), it rather adds a negative to me. (e.g. consider a cheap Casio watch vs grandfather clock. and keyboardio with wooden body and giant octo feet) High-tech and practicality i have a heart for. i like the g80 feet over clunky big ones. i also find the typing sound to be fine. (one critical thing is that i need light liner switches because my Repetitive Strain Injury, so i have choc pro red (35g force) installed thanks to mkultra.) I enjoyed your review, and enjoyed your vids on 360, moonlander, and dactyl. Thank you.
I echo this. These reviews are extremely helpful. He answers literally anyone's questions about these boards and leaves no room for imagination of what you're getting yourself into with these products. This man is an absolute gem for doing this! These boards are expensive! The man took time out of his day to go over, in great detail, the advantages/disadvantage of each board. I really appreciate it.
Mmh, i have seen the review with mixed feeling. Some interesting observations, but nearly no information about the typing experience. How are the fingers guided? Are the distances of the keys comparable to the other keyboards or different? Which keys can you reach easy? Which not? How good can the thumb keys be reached? How comfortable are those to use? How do the low-travel keys compare comfort wise to your other keyboards with standard keys? How do you find a good tenting position? Why do you choose a specific tenting? What is the advantage / disadvantage? How is typing with floating hands? How with hands on the rest? How close can you place the keyboard to the border of the table (important for typing with floating hands -- which in my experience is the much preferable and more ergonomic way of typing)? How are key combos compared to a standard or your other ergo keyboards? Ctrl-Shift, Ctrl-Alt, Shift-Alt...? BTW, I asked moergo for a keyboard to review on my channel (not under this Nickname), but never got a response -- even after a second time contacting them. Not very assuring to get absolutely no response from them.
Interesting review! I didn’t personally find the Glove80 feels « cheap » (or, not premium), and was actually quite pleasantly pleased at how lightweight it is, but I guess that’s really personal preference. I’ve had it for about 2 months now (pilot 1 shipment), and like it quite better than the Moonlander I’ve had for about 2 years before that. The keywell and choc switches make it very comfortable (it’s my first contoured), and I really love the thumb cluster, which is way more comfortable and accessible than on the Moonlander (so since you mentioned you don’t use it that you don’t use thumbs too much yourself, it probably doesn’t make much of a difference for you). I have red switches, which I quite like too, and I don’t have the same issue as you regarding how they sound (I actually like the sound of the Glove80 better than how my Moonlander sounds with Silent Reds, although even if I didn’t that’s not really a major point to me), but again I think it comes to personal preference. I agree with you that the ZSA configurator is incredible, but I’m hopeful MoErgo’s will get there in time! Also I do appreciate that I don’t need a paperclip to flash my keyboard anymore…
Oh yes, paperclip is a right PITA isn’t it. Of the ZMK based ones, the MoErgo is massively better than the faff involved in getting a a360 firmware written/built. Agree it would be nice to get everything in the configurator but it’s a great start and means any user can get in and make changes without needing github and the like 👍
@@benfrainuk Very much agree! As someone who can get around with a computer but doesn't do any dev and such and isn’t familiar with Github, I’ve very much enjoyed the simplicity to get my layout running! I’ve since got *another* ZMK keyboard without the luxury of a configurator and that’s… definitely something else… (I did manage to get a working layout in the end but that took me A WHILE). ZSA has had quite a few years to improve their configurator (which they still do now!), I’m sure given enough time MoErgo will bring us something at least as good! (Possibly even better, as ZSA doesn’t allow to add code and such, so, although their configurator is quite complete, if there’s something that’s not in it then you just can’t do it, whereas MoErgo allows you to add anything ZMK can do, which I find very good)
What keyboard needs a paperclip to flash? ZMK and QMK support assigning a flash/boot key. I haven't needed a paperclip for the A360 Pro or Moonlander? Both keyboards have a flash shortcut by default (Adv360 Pro has Mod + ① and Mod + ③, Moonlander has Layer 2 + upper right key). I did need to use a paperclip when I flashed the right half firmware to the left half on the 360. 🙈
This is an amazing review. I have no plans on buying a glove80 as I have too many ergos already and 2 of them are dactyls. Even then I think I watched most of your keyboard reviews twice. I particularly like how you get into details while keeping it entertaining. At least for a keyboard nerd
You shouldn't need weight for stability. I'm a fan of Glove80 (typing on it right now) and find the non-slip feet do an excellent job of keeping it in place. Plus, your hands being in the keywells naturally holds it firm to a desk or tray. This way I can easily take it on the go too.
Adding to that, you can always put some weights in the keyboard if that’s such a big issue to you (similar to gaming mice). I rather have it lighter than heavier. Like salt, “you can always add a little more but the food is ruined if there’s too” much kind of a thing.
I'm excited about them being wireless, I've wanted that since my very first ergodox. I just got my glove80s and I'm glad they're so lightweight-gonna see if I can make some kind of rig to let me type while my arms hang down in a natural position. I'm happy that they included sidecar attachment points too because I'd love to add some kind of mini joystick or touchpad.
Thanks for putting this video together. I'm looking for a portable keyboard similar to my home keyboard, the venerable Maltron 3D! The glove80 looks really good, but alas, I think it's going to be too large to fit in my bag. Also do you know if the batteries are easily replaced?
This is the the best option for a keyboard atm. Between uhk, moonlander, ergodox, dygma, this is a best option out there. Having included the function keys, removed all cables (wireless all the way) is something that other contenders don't have. However they should have included a module, or integrated mouse wheel - something like Naya Create keyboard. Another downside is the price.
I'm typing this on my UHK. I want to love this keyboard so bad, but this goddamn staggered row layout is killing me. I've designed and 3d printed my own tenting mount for the thing and no matter what angles I try, I can't find a truly comfortable layout. Part of the problem is then it's so high up I can't get a comfortable combination of arm, desk, and chair height. I'm loosing my mind. Staggered row keyboards truly need to disappear. My fingers don't move like that. Pulling the trigger on the Glove 80, hopefully it works. The ONE thing I don't know how I'm gonna deal with is the lack of good mouse control. The trackball and lenovo nub attachments for the UHK are pretty special even if not perfect. **Edit**: On second thought as my mouse hovered over buy... I think I should get a BastardKB Charybdis instead..... GAHHH
@@lostsauce0 The standard Charybdis does not come in wireless version but only the mini and nano version does. Another thing is placement of the trackball. It is meant to be used with the thumb instead of index & middle finger. Overall it is a nice option. The keyboard market is picking up lately.
@@lostsauce0 I am typing this on my UHK and it is so far the best keyboard I used. I have the halves at a distance (bottom case) of 7 cm and very slightly angled (1cm) and use the tenting legs attached, but not flipped out. I type with floating hands and have the keyboard at the table edge -- with _no_ palm rest attached. That is important. This pretty comfortable.
@@ZAWARUD00 The right half you can power through an USB-C cable from a host. But you still missing a cable connection between the two halves. But both of them running 100% bluetooth takes months of battery.
Ben, thanks for the video. I switched to Glove80 from a regular Keychron K2. So ortholinear and column stagger all at once, took me a few weeks to get used to. And to get up to speed with where I was with regards to typing speed. That said, Glove80 has been a joy to use. Your video was one of the main reasons for my buying decision. I actually got it as a 2nd hand purchase (someone who ordered didn't want it anymore and was selling it). Thus, it doesn't have choc whites and have pro reds. I'm divided about desoldering pro reds and putting choc whites. As a comparison, I finally settled on kailh box whites on my Keychron after experimenting quite a bit (with Gateron browns, Cherry MX blues and kailh mints). I do really like the kailh box whites and would like to have a similar experience on the Glove (with kailh choc whites) How would you rate having to desolder pro reds on Glove 80 and putting kailh chok whites in yourself?. As someone who did that for your Advantage 360 once (yes, I did watch that video), what would be your general recommendation?
I think my best advice here would be to pick up another second hand Glove80 with white switches and sell whichever of the two you like least. The MoErgo has a good buy/sell channel where you can likely pick one up soon enough. That will save you the hassle of potentially messing up and also enable you to be certain which you prefer.
I really like your way of presenting. More for "adults" not so much about flashy lights and how "cool" something looks. Like to that you often talk about weight, that is a bit underrated right now: a lot of this keyboards is to heavy/clunky if you want to carry them around.
:) nice review thanks... you did sort of skirt around saying if you preferred the 360 or the glove, I would love to know your thoughts on it. Will one of them be your daily driver?
Thanks for the review. Since I use a keyboard in more public settings I like to make my boards as silent as possible and usually modify my switches to that effect. It sounds like the typing experience is great. If I can make it quiet too then it's perfect.
They're quieter than the clicky switches, but not silent. There's still a noticeable click if you bottom out and when you take your finger off the keys and they return to the top. Those are things I want to silence in my switches. That way, the amount of sound a keyboard makes is dependent on the case more than anything else. Lighter switches usually mean it's going to be quieter though as when I bottom out, it's not as hard
This is my first untraditional keyboard (what do you call something like this?). I've used a Razer Tartarus Pro for a long time, for the programmable keys and additional thumb functionality, as well as the ortholinear format. But it's left-handed only, and i always had to pair it with a small 60% keyboard for actual typing. I'm excited to have something like this split, saving some of that precious desk space between my arms!
These types of comparison videos backed by experience is gold. Thanks Ben. Why do you care, like at all, about he color of the screws on the underside of the board? The Advantage 360 uses Gateron KS-9 switches (unless you had a custom job) not Cherry MX (which were used in the Advantage2). I don't care for having to keep another device that I use daily charged. Also, greatly prefer the durability, reliability and security of a battery-free wired device. I returned my Advantage 360 Pro for the non-Pro which has been near perfect. The winning design, to me, is dual link back to the computer (or custom hub) as the link cable between the left and right floating mid-air like on the Advantage 360 gets in the way on my desk.
Hi 👋 for me, attention to little details is often indicative of the overall care and thought that has gone into a product. My bad with the switches. I tend to say things have MX switches as in the form factor, even if they are derivatives from Gateron/Kaihl et al. Thanks for the comment 👍
Interesting board, how would you say it compares to Moonlander when it comes to hand placement and comfort? The issue I came across with ZSA, is my hands are too small to reach all the keys comfortably and use thumb cluster at the same time. Would you see that being a problem here potentially?
Definitely less of a stretch with a keywell board like the Glove80. Obviously impossible to know how comfy it would be for you. I just resigned myself to buying and trying a bunch and returning/selling ones that didn’t suit. It’s a pain but if you are after something that suits long term, might be worth the hassle. Let me know how you get on?
@@benfrainuk thanks for your reply! I pulled a plug and got the Glove last month, and it’s an almost perfect fit. I can reach most of the keys without palm movement, and the thumb cluster is fully accessible. There’s a learning curve since I never adapted to the split due to ZSA ergonomics, so I cannot attest to typing speed difference, but the comfort is definitely much improved.
@@Lubinetsm for me typing speed is not really a concern. I’ve never been fast and likely never will be! If it’s comfy then I suspect it will be a good long term investment 👍👍
Great review! I'm in batch 1 for the Glove80 and have an Advantage 360, and have nearly daily problems with the 360 staying connected. The right half also fully crashes on a regular basis, so I suspect that Kinesis isn't going to find anything wrong with yours. I upgraded it to ZMK 2 a few days ago (which was a bit of a Git nightmare) hoping it would fix these issues but unfortunately not. So I'm looking forward to trying the Glove80.
Yes, mine also running latest Zmk from Kinesis and still problematic, connection wise. Sounding more and more like it might just be the BT hardware that’s not ideal
I hope somebody does a teardown of the Glove80, since both the A360 Pro and the Glove80 use the same nRF52840 Bluetooth-enabled microcontroller. Of course, there may use different antennas, etc. The 360 Pro uses the Holyiot 18010 module. I am curious what module/antenna the Glove80 uses, since best case it may just be differences in the signal strength setting or something like that, which is fixable.
@@nonagoninf same, eh? I had been reliably informed they were different. Would you be able to tell by looking at the inside of the Glove80? Could post a pic if useful?
Using the urob fork which I believe is a bit more uptodate and put the keyboard sleep and idle timeout to a few days since I have it on usb power. Haven’t had any issues since.
In term of pure typing comfort, how would you compare this to the advantage 360? Putting aside issues of configuration and materials. Do you find the lower profile makes a significant difference?
Not really, but I suspect small margins may compound over time. So if you have work where you are literally constantly typing then it may add up. I work in web dev so it tends to be in bursts. I think the two boards, for me, are equally comfortable.
thanks for the review ;) how is it compared to the moonlander? i use the moonlander for programming and gaming and i wonder if that keeb can actually and is worth replacing the moonlander in those aspects :)
While everyone's hand are different, I moved from a moonlander (both gaming and coding) to a glove80 and am very happy with the change. I have average to smaller hands and find that I can comfortably reach 1 extra row of keys on the glove80 and 3 extra thumb keys per side without moving my palms
I really want to try one of those, but the cost of trying it is just too high. I could afford it if I knew I wanted it, but I need to try it first at least. Bummer.
i really love this keybord, basically i have bought it becuse i saw all of your videos that you were comparing it with the other keyboards. the only thing am looking up now is to have a single one usb so i can charge both of keyboard. if you know any brand please let us know. thank you for you time
Think MoErgo sell this with the boards. This what you mean? www.moergo.com/collections/glove80-accessories/products/1m-usb-2-0-a-to-dual-usb-c-split-cable?variant=44313112346897
@@benfrainuk omb i just missed that when i choose to buy it. aaaa am so angry now because the ship is going to be more than the usb. anyway thank you for taking even the time to respond to me. really appriciate it
Nice review. I just sold my keyboardio model 100. I will search for a replacement. I was considering the glove80. I would really try it if it came with kailh gChoc 20g option There will be two new split keyboards available soon the keychron q11 and x-bows split. What keyboard are you using right now ?
@@nickgoogle4525 The wood support starts to hurt the base of my wrists. I prefer no wrist support. I prefer keyboard with a little more keys like the moonlander for example
Thanks for the awesome review, informative and to the point as always! I wanted to ask, do you think the white chocs are too loud for an office setting? For context, I currently use an ergodox ez at work (absolutely love that board, I've owned it for over 2 years now). I'm not too crazy on keyboard modding / switch lubing but I do really appreciate a good sounding board. In fact I recently swapped the keys on my ergo from mx browns to akko cream yellows, which I have grown to love too. But I'm really interested in trying out a split key-well board. After seeing the ridiculous price of the advantage 360 and reading about the seemingly common connectivity/firmware issues people have with it, I'm quite sure that I'd like to try out the glove80. However I'm really not sure I'd enjoy the sound of the choc reds nor browns - as you mention in the video, they seem to sound quite plasticky in this board. So I'm left with the whites, which seem to counter balance that sound profile given their more distinct sound... but I'm not sure if they'd be too loud for the office setting I'd like to use them in. Do you have any thoughts on that? Sorry for the long post, and thanks again for the superb reviews you put out!
Hi Miguel, re the whites. I use mine (white) in a large open plan office. Obviously any mech keyboard is generally worse, sound wise, than a membrane board. However the whites are clicks rather than closely. More like an MX blue I suppose. Hard to give you a definitive answer as depends on many things, including the office, you’re typing style and the tolerance of your co-workers 😉
I can recommend the wired non-Pro Kinesis Advantage 360 with Gateron Browns modded with thick O-rings, which makes it sound and feel great, my favorite keyboard to date. Got a Glove80 rev 2 with Choc reds 2 days ago, and type-feel-wise it's become my 2nd favorite keyboard already. It does sound more pingy and not feel as solid, maybe more bendy, but typing is still very comfortable. I prefer key wells over flat boards comfort-wise, even though I like ErgoDox and Moonlander a lot as well. And the Voyager also, though for now I feel limited by 2 thumb keys, but it may be a good tradeoff for its immense portability.
The configuration from Dygma seems quite nice, also. Further, they seem to be constantly making updates and seem to be interested in what users think. Have you taken a look at the updates since your original Raise review? I really hope the new Defy ends up being great…
Defy is a variation of Kyria design, which was generally well received, so there's no reason for it the be horrible. The main problem is, it has a fairly low stagger which will make the distant thumb cluster keys harder to use for people with shorter pinkies
You can measure the difference between your own middle finger and pinky to check if it's suitable. Defy has the stagger of around 0.3 of a key between them. If that's close to your hand - it's fine, but if you have like 1.5 or even 2 key difference in lengths then you'd be more comfortable on more staggered designs
@@ImpostorModanica lengths of you fingers and reachability of different rows. Some people have middle finger reach much further than their pinky, some have their pinkies closer to level with the rest of their fingers. Just draw some keys on a piece of paper and see where your fingers can reach most comfortably without moving your palm. Usually the most comfortable stagger is bigger than on mainstream keyboards, but they stick to it because it's more familiar and closer to regular keyboards
if you use dvorak and mapped the control key to where the capslock button is (like very old school keyboards), then I've found ctrl + c is a better way to exit insert mode (rather than esc) and is better for your wrists
Honestly even on standard qwerty I find ctrl-c better for exiting than esc. (Or just map a jj, kj, or something…but I find myself using ctrl-c most often)
Great review, thanks! I was wondering how comfortable those wrist rests are. I am always wary of anything that presses the bottom of the wrists - had to switch to vertical mice for exactly that reason. Edit: oh wait, it's a *palm* rest, not a *wrist* rest. That changes everything, I guess! Must be a little confusing as first. :)
I was able to put a 2mm sheet of EVA foam in my Moonlander. It slightly improves the sound. I still went with lubed silent switches at the end since the board was just to loud with normal switches.
Hi Ben, thanks for this, very interesting. Would be interested in seeing you try out a more minimal keyboard (e.g. 36-key) to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of making that work! Cheers
Been there done that. 🤣 Sofle is about as few as I can get away with. The approach of fewer keys and more layers just doesn’t work for me. I get the idea, I just don’t personally seem able to adapt to it.
Can you please review the Keyboardio, I have been using one for years and am considering switching but no one who reviews keyboards has reviewed the Keyboardio and other split ergo boards for some reason.
Hmm. I don’t have experience with ergo keyboards, but I generally prefer keyboards that feel solid. I do like the dedicated function keys and the thumb cluster design over the 360. Feels like trade offs more than a clear winner. The 360 having connection issues for some also is a little concerning.
I think I would spend some time adding rubber and foam to that keyboard. I think you are currently sold out, but perhaps I’ll get the next generation or so. The thumb cluster looks far superior to the advantage 360
Did you try a piece of neoprene to dampen the sound? and now that you've reviewed the zsa voyager, has your opinion changed? I actually do have a usecase for a wireless multi device keyboard, as I wish to use it on 2-3 devices and do travel for work. Any recommendation? (Am looking at the naya create as that seems to claim to do it all, but still have to see a working prototype)
I’ve actually detailed a neoprene mod in the MoErgo discord. I think it definitely improves the sound. I like Voyager and Glove80 and appreciate their differences
I ordered a Glove 80 with white chocs. I'll be coming from my Advantage 1 which I've used for the past 13 years. For the RGB is there an easy way to setup just basic backlighting while typing that stops when your not using it? Is there a cable that allows you to charge both halves of the keyboard at the same time?
Two cables. One for each half. That’s the same as the Advantage360. Yes, you could have solid lighting but it will still drain your batteries far, far quicker
I'm in the exact same setup/situation as you describe and torn between white and red pro switches to replace my KA v1 (of 16 years...) - any experience to share on the white chocs?....
How stable is the Glove80 on your desk? It being this lightweight, do you end up pushing it accidentally when typing (especially when your hands are not on the wrist pads and you go for top row keys)
I have mine on a large desk mat. With that it is very stable. Without, I did have instances of it skating on the desk occasionally. Here is the one I got amzn.to/47dZPXX
@@benfrainuk Cool, thanks for the info. i use a large desk mat as well, so should be fine. Not yet set on switches (red vs red pro) but the Glove80 looks like a winner.
@@benfrainuk okay, got it just last week. I do really really enjoy it! I switched layouts to programmer dvorak, and it makes for a comfortable workday!
@@benfrainuk I went with a white one, which matches great with my oak desk. I also got the white clicky keys per your recommendation. They're my first clicky keys (I like oil kings, boba u4, etc), but I really like them! I'll likely be selling my moonlander soon. Thanks so much for your work :)
I would like a wired one. Don't care about RGB. Don't much care that it doesn't feel "premium" so long as it is still built well-- as in built to last. I think I'd likely go for the tactile version. I'm a fan of clicky but I do appreciate a more silent board. I don't have one yet. I will like to wait for a wired unit.. Just the simplicity along with the reality that it will live on a desk and not be toted about. Don't know why these companys have this spiel about why they leave out homing keys, when customers constantly state that they miss and would like them. Alas, the overlords with degrees know better than us paying peons. As for that simplistic yet affective tenting solution, I'm thinking some stacked small rubber washers might clean the look up and create a set point where it will be adjusted to by the user. I hear good things about this rig. Will keep my eye on it.
I do think the issue with a lot of new ergo keyboards is that the moonlander is such a high bar to pass. This appears to in many ways resemble a sculpted-keywell moonlander, but almost serves to highlight how many things the moonlander just nailed that most start-ups, DiY keyboards (and apparently kenseis) really seem to struggle with - it just feels like a complete product. Also can a company please put a pointing device on a keyboard, it seems like such a clear distinguishing feature in a market becoming ever more crowded!
Hear you on the pointing device. Couple have tried it I think. Quite common on dactyl builds but didn’t UHKB do a thumb module too (I know it’s not columnar mind)
Isn't moonlander just a version of ergodox, and a worse one in some regards? The thumb cluster on moonlander is antiquated at this point with the most useful space for a key occupied by the hinge. It may suit people with long thumbs that go sideways, but there was no reason for them to make it that way. There's a reason why no other newer keyboard designs ever copied ergodox let alone moonlander
@@benfrainuk Yeah, I have considered a DIY dactyl build, but find the process often more frustrating than rewarding. The module system on the UHK was absolutely cool and a really smart way of implementing it, unfortunately the weird layout ultimately put me off. I'm really holding out hope that ZSA could release new thumb modules for the moonlander, but I imagine that might be like a V2 type thing.
@@NJ-wb1cz the moonlander is a very heavily altered, though ergodox-derived layout prioritising portability and ease of use. Achieving "optimal ergo" on a mass manufactured keyboard is a fools errand. The only way to have a completely ergonomic keyboard would be using parametric design and 3d printing based on your own physical dimensions. Every manufactured product will make compromises to either work with a certain percentile of people, make manufacturing easier, to improve the design of the keyboard, etc... The moonlander might not meet your specific needs or ideals, but I think it's the safest choice for the vast majority of people, and has a strong community and expandability if you need to modify it. I also think it's silly criticising the ergodox layout since it remains one of the most popular layouts in the ergo community. Theres been very little research into the actual benefits of different designs and layouts.
Also wondered if we might get a wireless controller in some newer thumb clusters but I suspect you are right in that it would likely be easier to have that as part of a v2 model
I think there are enough differences that set it apart. Choc switches, different thumb cluster being the main ones. But, definitely has been influenced by Kinesis and Maltron
does anybody know which switches are used in the video? brown or red? and which keycaps are used for the black version of the glove 80 at the time 13:05
almost 400 bucks and no hot swappable switches??? it seems to me that the Moonlander will remain as the best keyboard... (even lacking wireless connectivity though...)
Hot swap is very very difficult to achieve from an engineering perspective on a key well so, yes, no hotswap. I would certainly appreciate hotswap as being able to lube the switches can sometimes be enough to fix any ‘scratchiness’ but at least you can get things with the loose switches
Dude, you built a hotswap dactyl manuform. What are you talking about "keywell keyboards can't have hotswap" ????? There are also a couple of per-key and once-piece PCB options.
damn i really want a split concave keyboard... but.... that sound was sooo god awful. Im over here with my custom built thocky monster, and i love the sound. and at that price point....
@@The1wsx10my work place does ‘hot desking’ so you don’t get somewhere to leave your kit. And even if it did, I would still want to keep it with me!
I'd like to say that if you're gonna go for cheap materials, just have some more respect to your own pricing. Nobody would mind a premium price for premium build. Otherwise it's kind of really showing who you are.
Insane ridiculous price. What da? I don't care how much they spend developing this keyboard. The price is freaking illegal for a freaking computer keyboard
When your income depends on using a keyboard and flat keyboards cause you physical pain to use, you either change careers or pay the cost of a keyboard that doesn’t cause you injury.
I asked on the MoErgo discord awhile back about a solution to finding your ideal tenting position each time you move it for travel, and their recommendation was to put a nut on the leg screw, find your ideal position, tighten the nut up the leg to the base of the keyboard to act as a marker, and then when traveling just unscrew the leg entirely from the board and screw it back in up to where the nut is when reassembling it. Not a perfect solution, but it should work as long as you don't lose the leg during travel.
"As I'm over sixteen years of age" (regarding RGB lighting) 🤣
And at the same time leds on wall. 😂
@@PeriMCS That's for the video
I asked on the MoErgo discord awhile back about a solution to finding your ideal tenting position each time you move it for travel, and their recommendation was to put a nut on the leg screw, find your ideal position, tighten the nut up the leg to the base of the keyboard to act as a marker, and then when traveling just unscrew the leg entirely from the board and screw it back in up to where the nut is when reassembling it. Not a perfect solution, but it should work as long as you don't lose the leg during travel.
Ben, I have followed your split keyboard journey and your indepth review of the Glove 80 is very helpful.
I had a 360 and a Moonlander... and now two months on the Glove80. And I say I'll never going back. In stead... I just ordered a 2nd one for commuting. Best keeb ever!
Have you tried the Voyager?
I like glove80's design philosophy, i.e. elegant, super light, functional, no fat, and meticulous engineering to achieve it. If a product has premium feel for the sake of it (such as matching color screws), it rather adds a negative to me. (e.g. consider a cheap Casio watch vs grandfather clock. and keyboardio with wooden body and giant octo feet) High-tech and practicality i have a heart for.
i like the g80 feet over clunky big ones. i also find the typing sound to be fine. (one critical thing is that i need light liner switches because my Repetitive Strain Injury, so i have choc pro red (35g force) installed thanks to mkultra.)
I enjoyed your review, and enjoyed your vids on 360, moonlander, and dactyl. Thank you.
I'm looking for my first ergo keyboard and you're reviews are really helpful.
I echo this. These reviews are extremely helpful. He answers literally anyone's questions about these boards and leaves no room for imagination of what you're getting yourself into with these products. This man is an absolute gem for doing this! These boards are expensive! The man took time out of his day to go over, in great detail, the advantages/disadvantage of each board. I really appreciate it.
Mmh, i have seen the review with mixed feeling. Some interesting observations, but nearly no information about the typing experience. How are the fingers guided? Are the distances of the keys comparable to the other keyboards or different? Which keys can you reach easy? Which not? How good can the thumb keys be reached? How comfortable are those to use? How do the low-travel keys compare comfort wise to your other keyboards with standard keys? How do you find a good tenting position? Why do you choose a specific tenting? What is the advantage / disadvantage? How is typing with floating hands? How with hands on the rest? How close can you place the keyboard to the border of the table (important for typing with floating hands -- which in my experience is the much preferable and more ergonomic way of typing)? How are key combos compared to a standard or your other ergo keyboards? Ctrl-Shift, Ctrl-Alt, Shift-Alt...? BTW, I asked moergo for a keyboard to review on my channel (not under this Nickname), but never got a response -- even after a second time contacting them. Not very assuring to get absolutely no response from them.
Interesting review! I didn’t personally find the Glove80 feels « cheap » (or, not premium), and was actually quite pleasantly pleased at how lightweight it is, but I guess that’s really personal preference. I’ve had it for about 2 months now (pilot 1 shipment), and like it quite better than the Moonlander I’ve had for about 2 years before that. The keywell and choc switches make it very comfortable (it’s my first contoured), and I really love the thumb cluster, which is way more comfortable and accessible than on the Moonlander (so since you mentioned you don’t use it that you don’t use thumbs too much yourself, it probably doesn’t make much of a difference for you). I have red switches, which I quite like too, and I don’t have the same issue as you regarding how they sound (I actually like the sound of the Glove80 better than how my Moonlander sounds with Silent Reds, although even if I didn’t that’s not really a major point to me), but again I think it comes to personal preference. I agree with you that the ZSA configurator is incredible, but I’m hopeful MoErgo’s will get there in time! Also I do appreciate that I don’t need a paperclip to flash my keyboard anymore…
Oh yes, paperclip is a right PITA isn’t it. Of the ZMK based ones, the MoErgo is massively better than the faff involved in getting a a360 firmware written/built.
Agree it would be nice to get everything in the configurator but it’s a great start and means any user can get in and make changes without needing github and the like 👍
@@benfrainuk Very much agree! As someone who can get around with a computer but doesn't do any dev and such and isn’t familiar with Github, I’ve very much enjoyed the simplicity to get my layout running! I’ve since got *another* ZMK keyboard without the luxury of a configurator and that’s… definitely something else… (I did manage to get a working layout in the end but that took me A WHILE). ZSA has had quite a few years to improve their configurator (which they still do now!), I’m sure given enough time MoErgo will bring us something at least as good! (Possibly even better, as ZSA doesn’t allow to add code and such, so, although their configurator is quite complete, if there’s something that’s not in it then you just can’t do it, whereas MoErgo allows you to add anything ZMK can do, which I find very good)
What keyboard needs a paperclip to flash? ZMK and QMK support assigning a flash/boot key. I haven't needed a paperclip for the A360 Pro or Moonlander? Both keyboards have a flash shortcut by default (Adv360 Pro has Mod + ① and Mod + ③, Moonlander has Layer 2 + upper right key). I did need to use a paperclip when I flashed the right half firmware to the left half on the 360. 🙈
Yea you dont need a paper clip to flash your moonlander. What Daniel said, Both keyboards have a flash shortcut by default
This is an amazing review.
I have no plans on buying a glove80 as I have too many ergos already and 2 of them are dactyls.
Even then I think I watched most of your keyboard reviews twice.
I particularly like how you get into details while keeping it entertaining.
At least for a keyboard nerd
Thanks for this review. I don't expect an ergo keyboard to be that portable, I'd rather have the weight and therefore the stability and strength.
You shouldn't need weight for stability. I'm a fan of Glove80 (typing on it right now) and find the non-slip feet do an excellent job of keeping it in place. Plus, your hands being in the keywells naturally holds it firm to a desk or tray. This way I can easily take it on the go too.
Adding to that, you can always put some weights in the keyboard if that’s such a big issue to you (similar to gaming mice). I rather have it lighter than heavier.
Like salt, “you can always add a little more but the food is ruined if there’s too” much kind of a thing.
I'm excited about them being wireless, I've wanted that since my very first ergodox. I just got my glove80s and I'm glad they're so lightweight-gonna see if I can make some kind of rig to let me type while my arms hang down in a natural position. I'm happy that they included sidecar attachment points too because I'd love to add some kind of mini joystick or touchpad.
I’ve seen a few photos in the Glove80 discord of someone mounting a mini trackpad so that might be an option?
Thanks for putting this video together. I'm looking for a portable keyboard similar to my home keyboard, the venerable Maltron 3D! The glove80 looks really good, but alas, I think it's going to be too large to fit in my bag. Also do you know if the batteries are easily replaced?
This is the the best option for a keyboard atm. Between uhk, moonlander, ergodox, dygma, this is a best option out there. Having included the function keys, removed all cables (wireless all the way) is something that other contenders don't have. However they should have included a module, or integrated mouse wheel - something like Naya Create keyboard. Another downside is the price.
I'm typing this on my UHK. I want to love this keyboard so bad, but this goddamn staggered row layout is killing me. I've designed and 3d printed my own tenting mount for the thing and no matter what angles I try, I can't find a truly comfortable layout. Part of the problem is then it's so high up I can't get a comfortable combination of arm, desk, and chair height. I'm loosing my mind.
Staggered row keyboards truly need to disappear. My fingers don't move like that. Pulling the trigger on the Glove 80, hopefully it works.
The ONE thing I don't know how I'm gonna deal with is the lack of good mouse control. The trackball and lenovo nub attachments for the UHK are pretty special even if not perfect.
**Edit**: On second thought as my mouse hovered over buy... I think I should get a BastardKB Charybdis instead..... GAHHH
@@lostsauce0 The standard Charybdis does not come in wireless version but only the mini and nano version does. Another thing is placement of the trackball. It is meant to be used with the thumb instead of index & middle finger. Overall it is a nice option. The keyboard market is picking up lately.
@@lostsauce0 I am typing this on my UHK and it is so far the best keyboard I used. I have the halves at a distance (bottom case) of 7 cm and very slightly angled (1cm) and use the tenting legs attached, but not flipped out. I type with floating hands and have the keyboard at the table edge -- with _no_ palm rest attached. That is important. This pretty comfortable.
I don't care that it's wireless, I want a keyboard that stay on my desk. I'd prefer not having a half using bluetooth.
@@ZAWARUD00 The right half you can power through an USB-C cable from a host. But you still missing a cable connection between the two halves.
But both of them running 100% bluetooth takes months of battery.
Ben, thanks for the video. I switched to Glove80 from a regular Keychron K2. So ortholinear and column stagger all at once, took me a few weeks to get used to. And to get up to speed with where I was with regards to typing speed. That said, Glove80 has been a joy to use.
Your video was one of the main reasons for my buying decision. I actually got it as a 2nd hand purchase (someone who ordered didn't want it anymore and was selling it). Thus, it doesn't have choc whites and have pro reds. I'm divided about desoldering pro reds and putting choc whites.
As a comparison, I finally settled on kailh box whites on my Keychron after experimenting quite a bit (with Gateron browns, Cherry MX blues and kailh mints). I do really like the kailh box whites and would like to have a similar experience on the Glove (with kailh choc whites)
How would you rate having to desolder pro reds on Glove 80 and putting kailh chok whites in yourself?. As someone who did that for your Advantage 360 once (yes, I did watch that video), what would be your general recommendation?
I think my best advice here would be to pick up another second hand Glove80 with white switches and sell whichever of the two you like least. The MoErgo has a good buy/sell channel where you can likely pick one up soon enough. That will save you the hassle of potentially messing up and also enable you to be certain which you prefer.
12:20 whoa that lighting effect is dope
I really like your way of presenting. More for "adults" not so much about flashy lights and how "cool" something looks. Like to that you often talk about weight, that is a bit underrated right now: a lot of this keyboards is to heavy/clunky if you want to carry them around.
:) nice review thanks... you did sort of skirt around saying if you preferred the 360 or the glove, I would love to know your thoughts on it. Will one of them be your daily driver?
Honestly, they are highly comparable. Not sure I could call it right now
@@benfrainuk Yeah fair call, I might just go the Glove 80 as it's about half the price here in Australia.
Yes. It’s a real concern. 360, as much as I like it, is mega money here in the UK too.
@@benfrainukhow about now?
Thanks for the review. Since I use a keyboard in more public settings I like to make my boards as silent as possible and usually modify my switches to that effect. It sounds like the typing experience is great. If I can make it quiet too then it's perfect.
The red switches are effectively silent.
They're quieter than the clicky switches, but not silent. There's still a noticeable click if you bottom out and when you take your finger off the keys and they return to the top. Those are things I want to silence in my switches. That way, the amount of sound a keyboard makes is dependent on the case more than anything else. Lighter switches usually mean it's going to be quieter though as when I bottom out, it's not as hard
@@JesseBradfordsIt’s quite a project, but lubing the switches and applying the “dentist mod” does wonders to the sound of chocs.
King reviewer. Love this. Might get this keyboard myself.
This is my first untraditional keyboard (what do you call something like this?). I've used a Razer Tartarus Pro for a long time, for the programmable keys and additional thumb functionality, as well as the ortholinear format. But it's left-handed only, and i always had to pair it with a small 60% keyboard for actual typing. I'm excited to have something like this split, saving some of that precious desk space between my arms!
These types of comparison videos backed by experience is gold. Thanks Ben. Why do you care, like at all, about he color of the screws on the underside of the board? The Advantage 360 uses Gateron KS-9 switches (unless you had a custom job) not Cherry MX (which were used in the Advantage2). I don't care for having to keep another device that I use daily charged. Also, greatly prefer the durability, reliability and security of a battery-free wired device. I returned my Advantage 360 Pro for the non-Pro which has been near perfect. The winning design, to me, is dual link back to the computer (or custom hub) as the link cable between the left and right floating mid-air like on the Advantage 360 gets in the way on my desk.
Hi 👋 for me, attention to little details is often indicative of the overall care and thought that has gone into a product. My bad with the switches. I tend to say things have MX switches as in the form factor, even if they are derivatives from Gateron/Kaihl et al. Thanks for the comment 👍
Interesting board, how would you say it compares to Moonlander when it comes to hand placement and comfort? The issue I came across with ZSA, is my hands are too small to reach all the keys comfortably and use thumb cluster at the same time.
Would you see that being a problem here potentially?
Definitely less of a stretch with a keywell board like the Glove80. Obviously impossible to know how comfy it would be for you. I just resigned myself to buying and trying a bunch and returning/selling ones that didn’t suit. It’s a pain but if you are after something that suits long term, might be worth the hassle. Let me know how you get on?
@@benfrainuk thanks for your reply! I pulled a plug and got the Glove last month, and it’s an almost perfect fit. I can reach most of the keys without palm movement, and the thumb cluster is fully accessible. There’s a learning curve since I never adapted to the split due to ZSA ergonomics, so I cannot attest to typing speed difference, but the comfort is definitely much improved.
@@Lubinetsm for me typing speed is not really a concern. I’ve never been fast and likely never will be! If it’s comfy then I suspect it will be a good long term investment 👍👍
Great review! I'm in batch 1 for the Glove80 and have an Advantage 360, and have nearly daily problems with the 360 staying connected. The right half also fully crashes on a regular basis, so I suspect that Kinesis isn't going to find anything wrong with yours. I upgraded it to ZMK 2 a few days ago (which was a bit of a Git nightmare) hoping it would fix these issues but unfortunately not. So I'm looking forward to trying the Glove80.
Yes, mine also running latest Zmk from Kinesis and still problematic, connection wise. Sounding more and more like it might just be the BT hardware that’s not ideal
I hope somebody does a teardown of the Glove80, since both the A360 Pro and the Glove80 use the same nRF52840 Bluetooth-enabled microcontroller. Of course, there may use different antennas, etc. The 360 Pro uses the Holyiot 18010 module. I am curious what module/antenna the Glove80 uses, since best case it may just be differences in the signal strength setting or something like that, which is fixable.
@@nonagoninf same, eh? I had been reliably informed they were different. Would you be able to tell by looking at the inside of the Glove80? Could post a pic if useful?
Using the urob fork which I believe is a bit more uptodate and put the keyboard sleep and idle timeout to a few days since I have it on usb power. Haven’t had any issues since.
In term of pure typing comfort, how would you compare this to the advantage 360? Putting aside issues of configuration and materials. Do you find the lower profile makes a significant difference?
Not really, but I suspect small margins may compound over time. So if you have work where you are literally constantly typing then it may add up. I work in web dev so it tends to be in bursts. I think the two boards, for me, are equally comfortable.
finally! waiting so logn for review. Thank you!
Hope it is useful! 👍
As always, great video. And yes, the audio issue is fixed! 😊
thanks for the review ;)
how is it compared to the moonlander? i use the moonlander for programming and gaming and i wonder if that keeb can actually and is worth replacing the moonlander in those aspects :)
While everyone's hand are different, I moved from a moonlander (both gaming and coding) to a glove80 and am very happy with the change. I have average to smaller hands and find that I can comfortably reach 1 extra row of keys on the glove80 and 3 extra thumb keys per side without moving my palms
I really want to try one of those, but the cost of trying it is just too high. I could afford it if I knew I wanted it, but I need to try it first at least. Bummer.
i really love this keybord, basically i have bought it becuse i saw all of your videos that you were comparing it with the other keyboards. the only thing am looking up now is to have a single one usb so i can charge both of keyboard. if you know any brand please let us know. thank you for you time
Think MoErgo sell this with the boards. This what you mean? www.moergo.com/collections/glove80-accessories/products/1m-usb-2-0-a-to-dual-usb-c-split-cable?variant=44313112346897
@@benfrainuk omb i just missed that when i choose to buy it. aaaa am so angry now because the ship is going to be more than the usb. anyway thank you for taking even the time to respond to me. really appriciate it
Nice review. I just sold my keyboardio model 100. I will search for a replacement. I was considering the glove80. I would really try it if it came with kailh gChoc 20g option There will be two new split keyboards available soon the keychron q11 and x-bows split. What keyboard are you using right now ?
Right now I happily interchange between 360, Glove, and Moonlander
Why did you sell your model 100? Would the q11 not be less ergonomic?
@@nickgoogle4525 The wood support starts to hurt the base of my wrists. I prefer no wrist support. I prefer keyboard with a little more keys like the moonlander for example
Thanks for the awesome review, informative and to the point as always!
I wanted to ask, do you think the white chocs are too loud for an office setting?
For context, I currently use an ergodox ez at work (absolutely love that board, I've owned it for over 2 years now). I'm not too crazy on keyboard modding / switch lubing but I do really appreciate a good sounding board. In fact I recently swapped the keys on my ergo from mx browns to akko cream yellows, which I have grown to love too. But I'm really interested in trying out a split key-well board. After seeing the ridiculous price of the advantage 360 and reading about the seemingly common connectivity/firmware issues people have with it, I'm quite sure that I'd like to try out the glove80. However I'm really not sure I'd enjoy the sound of the choc reds nor browns - as you mention in the video, they seem to sound quite plasticky in this board. So I'm left with the whites, which seem to counter balance that sound profile given their more distinct sound... but I'm not sure if they'd be too loud for the office setting I'd like to use them in. Do you have any thoughts on that? Sorry for the long post, and thanks again for the superb reviews you put out!
Hi Miguel, re the whites. I use mine (white) in a large open plan office. Obviously any mech keyboard is generally worse, sound wise, than a membrane board. However the whites are clicks rather than closely. More like an MX blue I suppose. Hard to give you a definitive answer as depends on many things, including the office, you’re typing style and the tolerance of your co-workers 😉
I can recommend the wired non-Pro Kinesis Advantage 360 with Gateron Browns modded with thick O-rings, which makes it sound and feel great, my favorite keyboard to date. Got a Glove80 rev 2 with Choc reds 2 days ago, and type-feel-wise it's become my 2nd favorite keyboard already. It does sound more pingy and not feel as solid, maybe more bendy, but typing is still very comfortable.
I prefer key wells over flat boards comfort-wise, even though I like ErgoDox and Moonlander a lot as well. And the Voyager also, though for now I feel limited by 2 thumb keys, but it may be a good tradeoff for its immense portability.
The configuration from Dygma seems quite nice, also. Further, they seem to be constantly making updates and seem to be interested in what users think. Have you taken a look at the updates since your original Raise review? I really hope the new Defy ends up being great…
I haven’t but have a Defy on order and look forward to trying it in summer 👍
Defy is a variation of Kyria design, which was generally well received, so there's no reason for it the be horrible. The main problem is, it has a fairly low stagger which will make the distant thumb cluster keys harder to use for people with shorter pinkies
You can measure the difference between your own middle finger and pinky to check if it's suitable. Defy has the stagger of around 0.3 of a key between them. If that's close to your hand - it's fine, but if you have like 1.5 or even 2 key difference in lengths then you'd be more comfortable on more staggered designs
@@NJ-wb1cz Can you please explain what you mean here? Not sure what I should measure
@@ImpostorModanica lengths of you fingers and reachability of different rows. Some people have middle finger reach much further than their pinky, some have their pinkies closer to level with the rest of their fingers.
Just draw some keys on a piece of paper and see where your fingers can reach most comfortably without moving your palm. Usually the most comfortable stagger is bigger than on mainstream keyboards, but they stick to it because it's more familiar and closer to regular keyboards
if you use dvorak and mapped the control key to where the capslock button is (like very old school keyboards), then I've found ctrl + c is a better way to exit insert mode (rather than esc) and is better for your wrists
Honestly even on standard qwerty I find ctrl-c better for exiting than esc. (Or just map a jj, kj, or something…but I find myself using ctrl-c most often)
Awesome review, thanks. Can you try looking in to the new keyboard from Dygma that is named Defy ?
Already reviewed, have a look at my other reviews ;)
Great review, thanks! I was wondering how comfortable those wrist rests are. I am always wary of anything that presses the bottom of the wrists - had to switch to vertical mice for exactly that reason.
Edit: oh wait, it's a *palm* rest, not a *wrist* rest. That changes everything, I guess! Must be a little confusing as first. :)
I was able to put a 2mm sheet of EVA foam in my Moonlander. It slightly improves the sound. I still went with lubed silent switches at the end since the board was just to loud with normal switches.
I have a sheet of 1mm neoprene/butyl I might try on mine 👍
Hi Ben, thanks for this, very interesting.
Would be interested in seeing you try out a more minimal keyboard (e.g. 36-key) to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of making that work!
Cheers
Been there done that. 🤣 Sofle is about as few as I can get away with. The approach of fewer keys and more layers just doesn’t work for me. I get the idea, I just don’t personally seem able to adapt to it.
@@benfrainuk same. I had a 32 key layout on the moonlander, and after 2 months I HAD to switch back.
This review helped me lots, thank you :)
Great stuff 👍
Can you please review the Keyboardio, I have been using one for years and am considering switching but no one who reviews keyboards has reviewed the Keyboardio and other split ergo boards for some reason.
If they sent one, I would be happy to use/review it but it’s not something I have on my personal shopping list currently!
still trying to get my hands on one. great review.
Hmm. I don’t have experience with ergo keyboards, but I generally prefer keyboards that feel solid. I do like the dedicated function keys and the thumb cluster design over the 360. Feels like trade offs more than a clear winner. The 360 having connection issues for some also is a little concerning.
Excellent. There is no absolute winner so if you can weigh each up and choose the right one for your criteria then my work here is done 👍
I think I would spend some time adding rubber and foam to that keyboard. I think you are currently sold out, but perhaps I’ll get the next generation or so. The thumb cluster looks far superior to the advantage 360
Thanks! Bought one thanks to this video
Excellent. Let me know how you find it?
Did you try a piece of neoprene to dampen the sound?
and now that you've reviewed the zsa voyager, has your opinion changed?
I actually do have a usecase for a wireless multi device keyboard, as I wish to use it on 2-3 devices and do travel for work.
Any recommendation? (Am looking at the naya create as that seems to claim to do it all, but still have to see a working prototype)
I’ve actually detailed a neoprene mod in the MoErgo discord. I think it definitely improves the sound.
I like Voyager and Glove80 and appreciate their differences
@@benfrainuk thanks!
Love this guy's reviews
I ordered a Glove 80 with white chocs. I'll be coming from my Advantage 1 which I've used for the past 13 years.
For the RGB is there an easy way to setup just basic backlighting while typing that stops when your not using it?
Is there a cable that allows you to charge both halves of the keyboard at the same time?
Two cables. One for each half. That’s the same as the Advantage360. Yes, you could have solid lighting but it will still drain your batteries far, far quicker
moergo sells a split usb c cable that will allow you to charge/flash both sides at the same time. You can probably buy a similar one on amazon too
I'm in the exact same setup/situation as you describe and torn between white and red pro switches to replace my KA v1 (of 16 years...) - any experience to share on the white chocs?....
I've really enjoyed the low profile clicky switches. much more satisfying than the old browns. The Glove80 is a game changer. @@spiff412
How stable is the Glove80 on your desk? It being this lightweight, do you end up pushing it accidentally when typing (especially when your hands are not on the wrist pads and you go for top row keys)
I have mine on a large desk mat. With that it is very stable. Without, I did have instances of it skating on the desk occasionally. Here is the one I got amzn.to/47dZPXX
@@benfrainuk Cool, thanks for the info. i use a large desk mat as well, so should be fine.
Not yet set on switches (red vs red pro) but the Glove80 looks like a winner.
Well watching this video cost me 400 dollars... Thanks a lot Ben lol
Ha 🤣 hopefully the best $400 you’ve spent 👍
@@benfrainuk okay, got it just last week. I do really really enjoy it! I switched layouts to programmer dvorak, and it makes for a comfortable workday!
@@Tannerlegasse excellent. Thanks for the update Tanner. You go white or grey/black?
@@benfrainuk I went with a white one, which matches great with my oak desk. I also got the white clicky keys per your recommendation. They're my first clicky keys (I like oil kings, boba u4, etc), but I really like them! I'll likely be selling my moonlander soon.
Thanks so much for your work :)
@@Tannerlegasse great 👍 sounds like you like the same kind of switches I do. Glad it’s proved a worthwhile investment.
You pretty much nailed all the problems the board has.
Awesome review, thanks.
I would like a wired one. Don't care about RGB. Don't much care that it doesn't feel "premium" so long as it is still built well-- as in built to last. I think I'd likely go for the tactile version. I'm a fan of clicky but I do appreciate a more silent board.
I don't have one yet. I will like to wait for a wired unit.. Just the simplicity along with the reality that it will live on a desk and not be toted about.
Don't know why these companys have this spiel about why they leave out homing keys, when customers constantly state that they miss and would like them. Alas, the overlords with degrees know better than us paying peons.
As for that simplistic yet affective tenting solution, I'm thinking some stacked small rubber washers might clean the look up and create a set point where it will be adjusted to by the user.
I hear good things about this rig. Will keep my eye on it.
it already works wired
@@alexehlke707
great review!
How long do the battery lasts?
If you have lighting on, not very long. Say a day or two. Without lights, literally weeks - very economical without lighting 👍
I do think the issue with a lot of new ergo keyboards is that the moonlander is such a high bar to pass. This appears to in many ways resemble a sculpted-keywell moonlander, but almost serves to highlight how many things the moonlander just nailed that most start-ups, DiY keyboards (and apparently kenseis) really seem to struggle with - it just feels like a complete product.
Also can a company please put a pointing device on a keyboard, it seems like such a clear distinguishing feature in a market becoming ever more crowded!
Hear you on the pointing device. Couple have tried it I think. Quite common on dactyl builds but didn’t UHKB do a thumb module too (I know it’s not columnar mind)
Isn't moonlander just a version of ergodox, and a worse one in some regards? The thumb cluster on moonlander is antiquated at this point with the most useful space for a key occupied by the hinge. It may suit people with long thumbs that go sideways, but there was no reason for them to make it that way.
There's a reason why no other newer keyboard designs ever copied ergodox let alone moonlander
@@benfrainuk Yeah, I have considered a DIY dactyl build, but find the process often more frustrating than rewarding. The module system on the UHK was absolutely cool and a really smart way of implementing it, unfortunately the weird layout ultimately put me off.
I'm really holding out hope that ZSA could release new thumb modules for the moonlander, but I imagine that might be like a V2 type thing.
@@NJ-wb1cz the moonlander is a very heavily altered, though ergodox-derived layout prioritising portability and ease of use. Achieving "optimal ergo" on a mass manufactured keyboard is a fools errand. The only way to have a completely ergonomic keyboard would be using parametric design and 3d printing based on your own physical dimensions. Every manufactured product will make compromises to either work with a certain percentile of people, make manufacturing easier, to improve the design of the keyboard, etc... The moonlander might not meet your specific needs or ideals, but I think it's the safest choice for the vast majority of people, and has a strong community and expandability if you need to modify it.
I also think it's silly criticising the ergodox layout since it remains one of the most popular layouts in the ergo community. Theres been very little research into the actual benefits of different designs and layouts.
Also wondered if we might get a wireless controller in some newer thumb clusters but I suspect you are right in that it would likely be easier to have that as part of a v2 model
How much does this one cost in the UK? the site says 327 but I'm not sure if that includes import fees
Nope. Doesn’t include import fees. However you might get lucky like me - for once I didn’t get any. Shipping took about 12 days.
love these videos
It’s basically just a copy of the Kinesis Advantage, isn’t it. Modified, naturally.
I think there are enough differences that set it apart. Choc switches, different thumb cluster being the main ones. But, definitely has been influenced by Kinesis and Maltron
does anybody know which switches are used in the video? brown or red? and which keycaps are used for the black version of the glove 80 at the time 13:05
MCC caps on clicky white switches
I also thought about the lock in a bike
Someone may have said it, but you can take apart the switches on the keyboard and put in different springs, lube etc.
Not when they are soldered in 😉
I've spent more time troubleshooting mine than actually typing on it.
(Update: all issues solved)
Oof, that’s unfortunate. Mine has been faultless in that regard. Take it you have sought help on their discord server?
Yes, and I’m happy to say that all the issues have been resolved! It was a rocky start, but the support from Moergo is fantastic.
Ngl chief I wasn't hearing any ping from any of them at 6:03
No, not sure it picked up too well on the recording.
almost 400 bucks and no hot swappable switches??? it seems to me that the Moonlander will remain as the best keyboard... (even lacking wireless connectivity though...)
Hot swap is very very difficult to achieve from an engineering perspective on a key well so, yes, no hotswap. I would certainly appreciate hotswap as being able to lube the switches can sometimes be enough to fix any ‘scratchiness’ but at least you can get things with the loose switches
Dude, you built a hotswap dactyl manuform. What are you talking about "keywell keyboards can't have hotswap" ????? There are also a couple of per-key and once-piece PCB options.
I ve seen 30 euro aliexpress keyboards that look more high quality than the glove 80. I would be afraid it breaks it if i put it in my backpack.
damn i really want a split concave keyboard... but.... that sound was sooo god awful. Im over here with my custom built thocky monster, and i love the sound. and at that price point....
who travels with their keyboard?
I do 2/3 times a week 🙂
@@benfrainuk as someone who owns multiple, nice keyboards, why don't you just keep them at all the places you would use them?
@@The1wsx10my work place does ‘hot desking’ so you don’t get somewhere to leave your kit. And even if it did, I would still want to keep it with me!
@@benfrainuk interesting. im not sure i'd like changing desks every day like that. you must be very organised or have very few items on your desk
You know you didn't pay for your Glove when you hold them a wave them around by the palm rest :p
20:58 he want the thoccc
should cost $120
I'd like to say that if you're gonna go for cheap materials, just have some more respect to your own pricing. Nobody would mind a premium price for premium build. Otherwise it's kind of really showing who you are.
Insane ridiculous price. What da? I don't care how much they spend developing this keyboard. The price is freaking illegal for a freaking computer keyboard
You’d better be sitting down if you go and price up an Advantage360 then 🤣
When your income depends on using a keyboard and flat keyboards cause you physical pain to use, you either change careers or pay the cost of a keyboard that doesn’t cause you injury.
I use ergodox ez before，I wish I can get this。
I asked on the MoErgo discord awhile back about a solution to finding your ideal tenting position each time you move it for travel, and their recommendation was to put a nut on the leg screw, find your ideal position, tighten the nut up the leg to the base of the keyboard to act as a marker, and then when traveling just unscrew the leg entirely from the board and screw it back in up to where the nut is when reassembling it. Not a perfect solution, but it should work as long as you don't lose the leg during travel.
awesome review!