Great video as usual mate! Its genuinely a great resource having someone actually daily driving these niche keyboards as opposed to using it for 5 minutes and saying it "feels more ergo". I think maybe the sad take away from this with ergo and niche keyboards is that you will almost always be compromising. My ideal mechanical keyboard would be split, hotswap, with per key RGB, a pointing device and scooped keywells but, most importantly, it needs to be reliable. I personally use a moonlander as it hits the most of those while being non-diy (the firmware and online flashing are also great on it) however even if I spent even more money or went full DIY, it's unlikely I could buy or build a keyboard hitting all of those. It's just the reality of a niche market. I really hope we see replacement moonlander thumb clusters as it might bring it a bit closer. Something like a Charybdis gets as close as possible, but to me my keyboard is a tool for work, so not being hotswap turns a switch dying from a 1 minute job into a weekend project. I don't want to be diagnosing issues when I should be working. The advantage 360 looks promising and hits a different combination of those dream features so I'll be awaiting your review.
Sorry to hear you're having thumb pain. I love your channel and feel you, literally. Unfortunately, I started getting some pain in my right thumb/wrist area (I'm right dominant) and it was made a LOT worse by ergonomic keyboards (also goes toward the elbow as in tennis elbow). I tried Kinesis Advantage 2, Ergodox EZ, Logitech split keyboard, tried an Ergo Mouse (Vertical and Thumb) and all made it worse. I do data analysis for work so am constantly typing and this freaked me out. Turns out I got De Quervain tendonitis and had to do some extensive therapy to get my right thumb back working okay (I still have pain). One of the issues is these 'ergo' keyboards put a LOT of pressure on the thumb in weird movements and stretching, going to and fro at add angles (same thing with a thumb mouse ball). Not sure if the issue is that the movements themselves are bad, or they're just bad for people who've done QWERTY for decades and aren't used to these other movements. Thumbs are strong and flexible but not really meant to make all these weird movements (nor constantly texting on smartphones). Not meant for tapping either I don't think (spacebar tapping is largely in one place at a time, not constantly moving and stretching the thumb at differing angles). Small pains can quickly blow up into larger issues with constant aches, pins and needles, etc. A quick De Quervain's test: hold your hand up as if waving, then curl your fingers around your thumb, pushing your thumb far in (like a really bad front facing fist). Then tile side to side (lightly). Interior I get no pain. But I have TONS of pain going exterior. (kind of a modified Finkelstein's test) Thankfully I'm back to okayish to work each day, still aches and pains constantly even with wrist braces, topicals, exercises, etc. It helped me a TON to go back to a regular QWERTY staggered layout (QWERTY itself may not matter, but my poor other fingers like my pink weren't used to so much extra work with a columnar ortho layout like Ergodox EZ). Please be careful with these ergo boards! From what I've seen online, they can be VERY good for certain kinds of RSI, but in my experience, they can heavily contribute to other forms. I hate it because I LOVE keyboards, especially weird ones and would love using one of these as my main, but it'll tear my tendons apart. Here's hoping for your improved joint health!
Hi Demi, that’s really interesting. I definitely feel it in the thumbs now more than ever. I’m also a long time staggered QWERTY user. Your story certainly illustrates how individual these problems can be and something describing itself as ergonomic is no guarantee. Wishing you a full recovery 👍💪
Demi'El you might want to try out something like the Keychron. It has QMK so you get all of the flexibility of the Kinesis/ Ergodox/ etc while still running a staggered QWERTY. I use a moonlander currently, and was having mild, but growing thumb pain for a while. For me it turned out the thumb clusters were just too far away. I ended up moving my space key to my right hand's index finger on the home row and my pain subdued over time. Also need to mention that I have very long hands, so if the distance is too much for me, I bet that others experience the same
FWIW I just move my hand and use my index finger on my in-keyboard trackball. Yes you're moving but it's far less than you would for a regular mouse and the correct way to ergonomically use a trackball is with the index finger.
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! I've been using a kinesis advantage for the past 9 years, and while it's been great I have been wanting to change to a split keyboard for a while now. I have been planning out and customizing a dactyl manuform build, and trying to decide whether to commit to the project or just get an advantage 360. Your experience gives some great insight into how the project can go and things to look out for in the design, so thank you very much for that. In case you or others don't know, there is a company partnering with kinesis to sell customized builds of the advantage 360. You can select switches, caps, and some other customizations. It adds a good bit of cost on top of the already fairly expensive default keyboard, but you end up with a very nice keyboard with a return policy and warranty, so it's something to consider if you're set on having more options for components. I'm still not decided on which route I'll end up taking but I'm leaning towards building a dactyl manuform. I think I'll have fun with the project and it'll be nice to have a fully customized keyboard that I can do maintenance on myself if necessary. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the advantage 360. Cheers!
Hi Josh, yes, I’ll be mentioning upgrade keyboards in the 360 review. Hopefully have the review out next week. Thanks for commenting. Let us know if you build a Dactyl how you get on 👍
Kinesis being astronomical in price is probably what I will buy in the future. I started small with the Microsoft Sculpt first to ease my wrists and give it a few months. Warranty and a battle tested product with decades on the market are the biggest difference when compared with a DIY solution. I just find very interesting how one can get so fixated on keyboards and go that rabbit hole. Great content!!!
Ha funnily enough it was last Christmas I started mine. Must be the thought we will somehow have an abundance of time spare (which never seems to happen!). Good luck 👍
Thanks for sharing your experience. After building the standard dactyl-manuform in 5x6 configuration, and getting used to typing on it - I got really convinced with idea of bringing functions closer to fingers, and not stretch fingers to get to functions. So when building second one for office use, I built one in 4x5 config (23x2 keys total), and been using it as daily driver for several years now. Using them without any wrist rests - so far so good - and I play keyboard-heavy games like DF and CDDA, on top of working as software developer.
Thanks for the video! I really liked them, but I hated the wrist wrests for it and was afraid the height is to big and would cause more issues, thanks for confirming this :) So I do really like the dactyl/skeletyl but guess I'll have to pass because of the height issue :(
Yes, if you aren’t hung up on building something bespoke yourself, I can recommend the glove80 (choc switches) or Advantage360. Buying a Glove80 isn’t really much different, price wise, than making your own Dactyl and has the benefit of good built in wrist rests
Hi! What do you think about Dactyl CC? It's thumb cluster position is copied from Advantage. And thanks for the amazing detailed video, it stopped me from printing Dactyl case right away, now I'm searching for a way to modify, moving thumbs cluster further away.
Looks interesting. The key thing for me, is just ensuring that the first thumb key is at least one key column on from the index finger homing key. Currently I have my ‘main’ thumb key two over (middle key of the thumb cluster) on the Advantage 360/Glove80 but it obviously comes down to what is most comfortable to you.
@@benfrainuk What method of editing the hull model would you prefer? Based on the fact that Dactyl Generator doesn't allow you to adjust this gap, and models in OpenSCAD don't seem human-readable at all.
Greetings from Scotland mate. That was an exceptionally candid and thorough review of a “product” (right word?) I’ve been really interested in for quite some time. The DIY approach really makes me shy away but thanks so much for pointing us in the direction of some other ergonomic keebs. Definitely gonna take a look at getting my hands on a Moonlander based on what you said! Have you ever gone back to your Dactyl? And have you got any similar opinions for ergonomic mice? The whole ergonomics discussion is a really interesting one and particularly for someone in your line of work I expect.
Hello there! 👋. I still have the dactyl but I never use it. I just think there are too many other good pre-built options in the same vein. If you can put up with listening to more of me, have a look at my videos on the Advantage360 and Glove80. With regards to mice, I’ve always been very happy with the Logitech MX Master amzn.to/3X01Qow
Very thorough review. Wondering if you've looked at the upcoming Dygma Defy? Really interesting to see how it'll compare to the Dactyl and the Kinesis (and the Moonlander i guess)... They did an in depth video on their thumb cluster design recently... But still no key-well 🤔
I love the idea of split keyboards, I wanna try them but I have a problem, I'm addicted to Thinkpad keybords, they layout, the trackpoint, and also addicted to trackballs.
Hey Ben, long time fan..love the videos and the details.. I got a dactyl manuform for relatively cheap (almost new- used) on reddit mechmarket (made by Cyboard). I am coming from microsoft ergo, cloud c989 split keyboard. I love the dacty and just feels natural and I am using the gel wrist rests BUT after heavy use / practice typing ( I have been doing touch typing for 10 years) I see my right wrist and ring/pinky area are hurting and may be early symptoms of rsi. I had ring finger pain (not as bad as now though) with my old Cloud c989 kb hence I moved to Dactyl but looks like it made it worse. Tried remapping keys, different desk/chair heights, wrist rest positions etc. but nothing helps. Weird that left wrist is perfectly fine. I do like the Dactyl but if I still want to use split , columnar kb what would you recommend other than Dactyl? I saw on this video you also had some pain after using Dactyl. Do you get similar wrist issues with Kinesis 360 or glove 80 or iris/lily58/zsa voyager/moonlander? Wondering if I should move to any of these and let go of my Dactyl....
I would say first of all, there is no ‘one solution fits all’. But I personally didn’t get wrist pain with either Advantage360 or Glove80. I put that down to the built in palm rests. I also didn’t get wrist pain from any of the ZSA boards (Voyager, Moonlander). Recently I started to get thumb pain from the split boards; probably due to overloading the thumbs, which for the longest time were just used for bashing a space bar! Sadly, I think you’ll only really know what works for you when you try it.
I also found out that for me amount of thumb keys matter a lot. Personally I reduced it to only 2 keys and it feels pretty nice. Btw your slimmer profile dactyl reminds me of remnant, although it isn't wireless. Thought about converting it to wireless with nice nanos, but it feels pretty hard...
What switches do you usually have? The browns feel lighter than the oil kings I’m used to. Certainly lighter than kaihl blacks. They feel ’just right’ although I probably wouldn’t have chosen them given the choice. I’ll try and get the review out ASAP.
the key is to start with the right seating posture, and in this case with wells you need your wrist to rest higher than the fingers, that is why the Kinesis & maltron have the shame they have. then get a bunch of playdoh or some kind of clay and use that as the starting point to find the comfortable shape for your hands, from that position with elevated wrists, and makes sure all of your articulations are free from strain.
I have been using my Dactyl Manuform 6 x 6 Nice!Nano for a few years and have no issues what so ever, for gaming its great for normal typing its just great, I use a wrist rest, and I have the 6 thumb cluster setup but I use different sized key caps for the clusters. You very basically said your choice of positioning messed the experience up for you, go back to using the normal thumb cluster and I bet things get a whole lot better after getting used to it again.
Just discovered you, and very much enjoy the "What's it like" sections of your videos. I can endlessly compare keyboards and pictures online but I don't often see people talk about long term use. Great to hear your thoughts.
How do you like this compared to the Kinesis 360? I just picked up the 360 Pro and now i'm questioning if I should return it for one of these. I have several custom built boards but this one fell off the radar! I'm also curios if the thumb switches are easier to use than the 360
I much prefer my 360. The Dactyl is in a storage box. Nothing wrong with it per se but it is a hand built keyboard and feels as much. The Dactyl can be built to have thumb keys wherever you want them and however many you want so that side of things is appealing.
Nope, at least none that are viable enough for mass production, it seems. The switches are always either lit from behind (SMD) or the LEDs are mounted through an opening in the switch casing.
Interesting video, it sucks to hear about your thumb pain. I've been using an Advantage 2 for work and found the spread wasn't wide enough for me, so it led me down the ergo keyboard rabbit hole at the end of last year. I found the moonlander would have been the closest fit, but I knew the lack of dishing would rule it out. Fortunately for me, the Advantage 360 pro was announced and was about to be released on Drop. Of course I missed the December 2021 preorder so I ended up making my own Kyria to be a stand in until the Kinesis could produce enough 360s. I read about the Dactyl and I knew it would have been too big of a build for a first time keyboard builder. I wasn't convinced by the position of the thumb clusters either and I didn't want to have to deal with 3D printed plastic. After watching your video I'm even more glad I picked a Kyria over the Dactyl. I too am excited for your 360 video, I hope you go into detail about Kinesis' implementation of ZMK (if you got the pro version), the Kinesis documentation seems limited. It's like they want people to use the GUI rather than building up their own layers and macros in ZMK.
I basically took and adapted my ZMK config from the Dactyl and used it on the 360. That definitely helped me get up to speed on the 360 quickly. I think it would be pretty frustrating to dive into writing ZMK configs fresh if you’ve never done them before. I’ll hopefully cover it sufficiently in the next video. Thanks for watching 🙏
@@benfrainuk Cool, luckily for me I have experience with QMK which should help. I imagine many first timers are going to find it frustrating if they rushed to buy a pro.
I love your videos Ben! In case you don't know this, the audio in your videos can be a bit jarring to headphone users (at least to me?) when you tap your hand on the table or type on the keyboard. It's like the mic is sitting directly on the table so the vibration is hitting the mic creating this thumpy base sound each time. Maybe I'm the only one that notices it :P Anyway can't wait for the 360 review!
Great video as usual mate! Its genuinely a great resource having someone actually daily driving these niche keyboards as opposed to using it for 5 minutes and saying it "feels more ergo".
I think maybe the sad take away from this with ergo and niche keyboards is that you will almost always be compromising. My ideal mechanical keyboard would be split, hotswap, with per key RGB, a pointing device and scooped keywells but, most importantly, it needs to be reliable.
I personally use a moonlander as it hits the most of those while being non-diy (the firmware and online flashing are also great on it) however even if I spent even more money or went full DIY, it's unlikely I could buy or build a keyboard hitting all of those. It's just the reality of a niche market. I really hope we see replacement moonlander thumb clusters as it might bring it a bit closer.
Something like a Charybdis gets as close as possible, but to me my keyboard is a tool for work, so not being hotswap turns a switch dying from a 1 minute job into a weekend project. I don't want to be diagnosing issues when I should be working.
The advantage 360 looks promising and hits a different combination of those dream features so I'll be awaiting your review.
please include more b roll of the actual keyboards next time, thanks
Sorry to hear you're having thumb pain. I love your channel and feel you, literally. Unfortunately, I started getting some pain in my right thumb/wrist area (I'm right dominant) and it was made a LOT worse by ergonomic keyboards (also goes toward the elbow as in tennis elbow). I tried Kinesis Advantage 2, Ergodox EZ, Logitech split keyboard, tried an Ergo Mouse (Vertical and Thumb) and all made it worse. I do data analysis for work so am constantly typing and this freaked me out. Turns out I got De Quervain tendonitis and had to do some extensive therapy to get my right thumb back working okay (I still have pain). One of the issues is these 'ergo' keyboards put a LOT of pressure on the thumb in weird movements and stretching, going to and fro at add angles (same thing with a thumb mouse ball). Not sure if the issue is that the movements themselves are bad, or they're just bad for people who've done QWERTY for decades and aren't used to these other movements. Thumbs are strong and flexible but not really meant to make all these weird movements (nor constantly texting on smartphones). Not meant for tapping either I don't think (spacebar tapping is largely in one place at a time, not constantly moving and stretching the thumb at differing angles). Small pains can quickly blow up into larger issues with constant aches, pins and needles, etc. A quick De Quervain's test: hold your hand up as if waving, then curl your fingers around your thumb, pushing your thumb far in (like a really bad front facing fist). Then tile side to side (lightly). Interior I get no pain. But I have TONS of pain going exterior. (kind of a modified Finkelstein's test) Thankfully I'm back to okayish to work each day, still aches and pains constantly even with wrist braces, topicals, exercises, etc. It helped me a TON to go back to a regular QWERTY staggered layout (QWERTY itself may not matter, but my poor other fingers like my pink weren't used to so much extra work with a columnar ortho layout like Ergodox EZ). Please be careful with these ergo boards! From what I've seen online, they can be VERY good for certain kinds of RSI, but in my experience, they can heavily contribute to other forms. I hate it because I LOVE keyboards, especially weird ones and would love using one of these as my main, but it'll tear my tendons apart. Here's hoping for your improved joint health!
Hi Demi, that’s really interesting. I definitely feel it in the thumbs now more than ever. I’m also a long time staggered QWERTY user. Your story certainly illustrates how individual these problems can be and something describing itself as ergonomic is no guarantee. Wishing you a full recovery 👍💪
Demi'El you might want to try out something like the Keychron. It has QMK so you get all of the flexibility of the Kinesis/ Ergodox/ etc while still running a staggered QWERTY.
I use a moonlander currently, and was having mild, but growing thumb pain for a while. For me it turned out the thumb clusters were just too far away.
I ended up moving my space key to my right hand's index finger on the home row and my pain subdued over time.
Also need to mention that I have very long hands, so if the distance is too much for me, I bet that others experience the same
What do you think about home row mods, since it could help using thumb keys less?
FWIW I just move my hand and use my index finger on my in-keyboard trackball.
Yes you're moving but it's far less than you would for a regular mouse and the correct way to ergonomically use a trackball is with the index finger.
Nice tip about the thumb position. I have big hands so I will have to take all of this into consideration. Thanks for the review.
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video!
I've been using a kinesis advantage for the past 9 years, and while it's been great I have been wanting to change to a split keyboard for a while now. I have been planning out and customizing a dactyl manuform build, and trying to decide whether to commit to the project or just get an advantage 360.
Your experience gives some great insight into how the project can go and things to look out for in the design, so thank you very much for that.
In case you or others don't know, there is a company partnering with kinesis to sell customized builds of the advantage 360. You can select switches, caps, and some other customizations. It adds a good bit of cost on top of the already fairly expensive default keyboard, but you end up with a very nice keyboard with a return policy and warranty, so it's something to consider if you're set on having more options for components.
I'm still not decided on which route I'll end up taking but I'm leaning towards building a dactyl manuform. I think I'll have fun with the project and it'll be nice to have a fully customized keyboard that I can do maintenance on myself if necessary.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the advantage 360. Cheers!
Hi Josh, yes, I’ll be mentioning upgrade keyboards in the 360 review. Hopefully have the review out next week. Thanks for commenting. Let us know if you build a Dactyl how you get on 👍
Kinesis being astronomical in price is probably what I will buy in the future. I started small with the Microsoft Sculpt first to ease my wrists and give it a few months. Warranty and a battle tested product with decades on the market are the biggest difference when compared with a DIY solution. I just find very interesting how one can get so fixated on keyboards and go that rabbit hole. Great content!!!
Had my eyes on the Dactyl for a while now. Over Christmas break I'm going to be looking into how approach this.
Ha funnily enough it was last Christmas I started mine. Must be the thought we will somehow have an abundance of time spare (which never seems to happen!). Good luck 👍
Thanks for sharing your experience. After building the standard dactyl-manuform in 5x6 configuration, and getting used to typing on it - I got really convinced with idea of bringing functions closer to fingers, and not stretch fingers to get to functions. So when building second one for office use, I built one in 4x5 config (23x2 keys total), and been using it as daily driver for several years now. Using them without any wrist rests - so far so good - and I play keyboard-heavy games like DF and CDDA, on top of working as software developer.
Are you using home row mods? And/or just lots of layers?
you can check bastardkb, they have pcbs for dactyls style keyboards.
Yep! Knew I’d forgotten a link. They look great if you have a standard-ish layout 👍
Thanks for the video! I really liked them, but I hated the wrist wrests for it and was afraid the height is to big and would cause more issues, thanks for confirming this :)
So I do really like the dactyl/skeletyl but guess I'll have to pass because of the height issue :(
Yes, if you aren’t hung up on building something bespoke yourself, I can recommend the glove80 (choc switches) or Advantage360. Buying a Glove80 isn’t really much different, price wise, than making your own Dactyl and has the benefit of good built in wrist rests
You should give sticky modifiers a try. They should reduce your reliance on holding keys in awkward positions. Also try combos! They’re great
Hi! What do you think about Dactyl CC? It's thumb cluster position is copied from Advantage. And thanks for the amazing detailed video, it stopped me from printing Dactyl case right away, now I'm searching for a way to modify, moving thumbs cluster further away.
Looks interesting. The key thing for me, is just ensuring that the first thumb key is at least one key column on from the index finger homing key. Currently I have my ‘main’ thumb key two over (middle key of the thumb cluster) on the Advantage 360/Glove80 but it obviously comes down to what is most comfortable to you.
@@benfrainuk What method of editing the hull model would you prefer? Based on the fact that Dactyl Generator doesn't allow you to adjust this gap, and models in OpenSCAD don't seem human-readable at all.
@@ЛичищеЛичище I just paid someone to alter the cad and print for me. Check out Wylderbuilds who I link to in the description
if you wanna be cleaner you can use a flexible pcb, or network cable to at least be cleaner.
Greetings from Scotland mate. That was an exceptionally candid and thorough review of a “product” (right word?) I’ve been really interested in for quite some time. The DIY approach really makes me shy away but thanks so much for pointing us in the direction of some other ergonomic keebs. Definitely gonna take a look at getting my hands on a Moonlander based on what you said!
Have you ever gone back to your Dactyl? And have you got any similar opinions for ergonomic mice? The whole ergonomics discussion is a really interesting one and particularly for someone in your line of work I expect.
Hello there! 👋. I still have the dactyl but I never use it. I just think there are too many other good pre-built options in the same vein. If you can put up with listening to more of me, have a look at my videos on the Advantage360 and Glove80.
With regards to mice, I’ve always been very happy with the Logitech MX Master amzn.to/3X01Qow
Do Dactyl has antighosting for all keys?
Very thorough review. Wondering if you've looked at the upcoming Dygma Defy?
Really interesting to see how it'll compare to the Dactyl and the Kinesis (and the Moonlander i guess)...
They did an in depth video on their thumb cluster design recently... But still no key-well 🤔
Have one on order so will review in due course 👍
Great review. A simple fix I found is to use the middle thumb as the main key. You can put a higher keycap on it if you like.
Yes, ended up using my middle one too 👍 Different keycap is a great idea though.
I love the idea of split keyboards, I wanna try them but I have a problem, I'm addicted to Thinkpad keybords, they layout, the trackpoint, and also addicted to trackballs.
I saw one diy dactyl with a track point/ball
One of the best videos on the Dactyl Manuform out there. Thanks for putting this out!
Appreciate that. 🙏
Hey Ben, long time fan..love the videos and the details.. I got a dactyl manuform for relatively cheap (almost new- used) on reddit mechmarket (made by Cyboard). I am coming from microsoft ergo, cloud c989 split keyboard. I love the dacty and just feels natural and I am using the gel wrist rests BUT after heavy use / practice typing ( I have been doing touch typing for 10 years) I see my right wrist and ring/pinky area are hurting and may be early symptoms of rsi. I had ring finger pain (not as bad as now though) with my old Cloud c989 kb hence I moved to Dactyl but looks like it made it worse. Tried remapping keys, different desk/chair heights, wrist rest positions etc. but nothing helps. Weird that left wrist is perfectly fine. I do like the Dactyl but if I still want to use split , columnar kb what would you recommend other than Dactyl? I saw on this video you also had some pain after using Dactyl. Do you get similar wrist issues with Kinesis 360 or glove 80 or iris/lily58/zsa voyager/moonlander? Wondering if I should move to any of these and let go of my Dactyl....
I would say first of all, there is no ‘one solution fits all’. But I personally didn’t get wrist pain with either Advantage360 or Glove80. I put that down to the built in palm rests.
I also didn’t get wrist pain from any of the ZSA boards (Voyager, Moonlander). Recently I started to get thumb pain from the split boards; probably due to overloading the thumbs, which for the longest time were just used for bashing a space bar! Sadly, I think you’ll only really know what works for you when you try it.
@@benfrainuk thank you...
I also found out that for me amount of thumb keys matter a lot. Personally I reduced it to only 2 keys and it feels pretty nice. Btw your slimmer profile dactyl reminds me of remnant, although it isn't wireless. Thought about converting it to wireless with nice nanos, but it feels pretty hard...
Yes. I’m definitely in the less thumb keys gang!
@rednil8242 did you get a chance to build yours? curious how it went
I’m impatient to see your review of advantage 360. I may buy it but gateron brown switch maybe too heavy for me.
What switches do you usually have? The browns feel lighter than the oil kings I’m used to. Certainly lighter than kaihl blacks. They feel ’just right’ although I probably wouldn’t have chosen them given the choice. I’ll try and get the review out ASAP.
@@benfrainuk on advantage 2 cherry mx red silent, on Xbows gateron clear
the key is to start with the right seating posture, and in this case with wells you need your wrist to rest higher than the fingers, that is why the Kinesis & maltron have the shame they have.
then get a bunch of playdoh or some kind of clay and use that as the starting point to find the comfortable shape for your hands, from that position with elevated wrists, and makes sure all of your articulations are free from strain.
I have been using my Dactyl Manuform 6 x 6 Nice!Nano for a few years and have no issues what so ever, for gaming its great for normal typing its just great, I use a wrist rest, and I have the 6 thumb cluster setup but I use different sized key caps for the clusters. You very basically said your choice of positioning messed the experience up for you, go back to using the normal thumb cluster and I bet things get a whole lot better after getting used to it again.
some great frank info in this video, very helpful.
Looking forward to your advantage 360 review
Looking forward to Kinesis review! Thank you for your hard work!
Just discovered you, and very much enjoy the "What's it like" sections of your videos. I can endlessly compare keyboards and pictures online but I don't often see people talk about long term use. Great to hear your thoughts.
Very useful review. Thank you.
Great video, thank you for your time 👍
How do you like this compared to the Kinesis 360? I just picked up the 360 Pro and now i'm questioning if I should return it for one of these. I have several custom built boards but this one fell off the radar! I'm also curios if the thumb switches are easier to use than the 360
I much prefer my 360. The Dactyl is in a storage box. Nothing wrong with it per se but it is a hand built keyboard and feels as much. The Dactyl can be built to have thumb keys wherever you want them and however many you want so that side of things is appealing.
Love this channel. Looking to get my first ergo so these reviews are good resources
Arent there backlit mechanical switches nowadays?
Nope, at least none that are viable enough for mass production, it seems. The switches are always either lit from behind (SMD) or the LEDs are mounted through an opening in the switch casing.
Interesting video, it sucks to hear about your thumb pain.
I've been using an Advantage 2 for work and found the spread wasn't wide enough for me, so it led me down the ergo keyboard rabbit hole at the end of last year. I found the moonlander would have been the closest fit, but I knew the lack of dishing would rule it out.
Fortunately for me, the Advantage 360 pro was announced and was about to be released on Drop. Of course I missed the December 2021 preorder so I ended up making my own Kyria to be a stand in until the Kinesis could produce enough 360s. I read about the Dactyl and I knew it would have been too big of a build for a first time keyboard builder. I wasn't convinced by the position of the thumb clusters either and I didn't want to have to deal with 3D printed plastic.
After watching your video I'm even more glad I picked a Kyria over the Dactyl.
I too am excited for your 360 video, I hope you go into detail about Kinesis' implementation of ZMK (if you got the pro version), the Kinesis documentation seems limited. It's like they want people to use the GUI rather than building up their own layers and macros in ZMK.
I basically took and adapted my ZMK config from the Dactyl and used it on the 360. That definitely helped me get up to speed on the 360 quickly. I think it would be pretty frustrating to dive into writing ZMK configs fresh if you’ve never done them before. I’ll hopefully cover it sufficiently in the next video. Thanks for watching 🙏
@@benfrainuk Cool, luckily for me I have experience with QMK which should help. I imagine many first timers are going to find it frustrating if they rushed to buy a pro.
I love your videos Ben! In case you don't know this, the audio in your videos can be a bit jarring to headphone users (at least to me?) when you tap your hand on the table or type on the keyboard. It's like the mic is sitting directly on the table so the vibration is hitting the mic creating this thumpy base sound each time. Maybe I'm the only one that notices it :P Anyway can't wait for the 360 review!
23:57-24:12 for example when you talk about the wrist angle :)
Hi Sig! That’s useful feedback, thanks. I’ll try and be mindful of that next time, I had no idea! Thanks again 👍