I'd like to gently point out your intermittent self-critical commentary. So I can COMPLETELY REBUKE IT. You most definitely do NOT "suck at this." You're highly articulate. You drill into the key aspects in an honest, attention-sustaining, and even hilarious way [re: "screwing" 😂] Its so damn normal to take a "long" time creating content, although you can get faster with time. And I really appreciate how much this vid helps me quickly surmise about the Glove vs. alternatives. Anywho, self-criticism is so pervasive and even glorified in our culture. My pointing this out may yield NULL. Nonetheless, I hope you seek to condition more positive self-noticing. And generally diminish the so-called "inner critic." You can become massively successful without doing this. People do it all the time. But I want you to know and enjoy who you are all along the way. For more in this, see Pete Walker's books. In any case, Cheers !
I have both Glove 80 and Adv 360 Pro. For me, Switch choices: Adv 360 Pro. Build quality: Adv 360 Pro. Tenting: Adv 360 Pro. Configuration: Glove 80. Really...Kinesis..wake up and make something better. Comfort: Glove 80 Community: Glove 80 Bluetooth connectivity: Glove 80. Kinesis...I gave up using with two computers (Yes, I'm using V3 firmware) I use Glove 80 way more now.
Thank you for this! It's refreshing to see a real review with things like the "q" key. So many vids on products don't go into actual detail like this, you rock!
I went from Kinesis Advantage 2 to glove80 about 2 months ago. Just the open-source ZMK firmware over kinesis' proprietary firmware was worth the upgrade for me, every other benefit (style, switches, bluetooth, discord community) was a bonus. Barring custom keyboards, I think this is the best keyboard on the market (at least for programmers) and worth every penny. If you're on the fence, just buy it.
Thank you for such a comprehensive first impression. It does however stretches the envelope of a first impression :D I wonder how long your review will be. A few comments: 1. I noticed that you use a magnetic USB connector. We strongly recommend against magnetic USB connectors. We don't know of any magnetic USB connector that complies with the USB specification. Specifically, the ground pin should be the first to connect and the last to disconnect according to USB spec. If this is not observed it is very possible to damage the connected devices. 2. Regarding the tenting mechanism: it is a deliberate choice after testing just about every tenting mechanism under the sun. a. Once you have found the perfect position, you won't have to change the tenting again. However, a non-optimal tenting position is a compromise for comfort forever. So we opt for a mechanism that allows fine-tuning, since we ound from extensive experiments that even 1 or 2 degrees is enough to make a big comfort difference. b. A low typing height is critical for a neutral tilt typing position (i.e. wrist not bent upwards) on standard height desks. As such we chose a tenting mechanism that does not increase the typing height - not many mechanisms fit this requirement.
Thanks for the warning about the magnetic USB adapters, I wasn't aware they could damage connected devices! As far as video length goes for first impressions, that's just how I roll 😎
There are other mechanisms you could use that would allow fine grained adjustments without adding nuts to a wobbly screw, this kind of jank is not acceptable at this price point
I watched a ton of videos and did a lot of research to find the perfect keyboard for me. Your videos helped me choose the glove80 and I literally can't imagine life without it now. I'm a full time software engineer and this has been one of the best purchases of my career! Thanks so much for the great videos and recommendation. Can't sing my praises of the keyboard enough
Great video. +1 to the wife! I ordered a glove80 on the weekend so I'm very glad your latest thoughts were positive ones. I also went for the red pros in the end so my fingers are crossed they aren't too light but I'm thinking that I'll just get used to it. The other thing is that until my keychron k2 (current KB), I'd always had low profile keyboards so I might actually find the key feel is going back to something, time wise, I've used more of.
Really appreciate these videos. These kinds of keyboards are not something many people normally come across unless specifically looking for them and with how relatively expensive they are it's really valuable to get some good information before deciding which one to go with. And a big thank you to your wife for her part in making these videos possible. My new Glove80 should arrive any day now :)
The price seems high, but compared to other split keyboard options, the value started to shine. I wonder if someone out there already copying this design...
I really love the board, the design, the company and the owner. BUT, I just want to provide a warning to others I wish I knew because it's a hefty chunk of money. Like any one size fits all product, it's design to fit most hands. I just happen to not fit that well and so in my case, even after using it for a year... I just never got fully comfortable and it hurt my wpm and error rate. My issue is, that while I have large hands, I have large palms and shorter fingers apparently than average. What this does is change the reach-ability of the keys due to the keywell. So I had to constantly move my hands to hit keys and thumb keys and the keywell really needs the wrist rest and hovering wrist at that height is just not realistic through a whole day. Idk, I was distraught that I was immediately faster and less error prone when I switched to another non-keywell keyboard bc I wasted a lot of money and a year of trying to use it. But my experience seems to be rare.
I currently have a Dygma Raise and I’m thinking about repurchasing for my Mac. My shortlist: Dactyl, Voyayer and this one. And I’ve never tried a well. Choices, choices
got this keyboard a few weeks ago. this was my first ergo venture ever, glad I did my research! I really should learn zmk so that I could take a look at your keymap. I've only done simple remaps inside the editor, and it's very comfortable but there are a few keys I can't figure out where to put, like ctrl, shift, cmd. great video!
Maybe instead of overstimulating hugs, you can try to build in some automation in the house to make her life easier. I can't imagine the work she had to do to keep them kids occupied even for this 3 hr recording 🥲
I got one of these for myself for Christmas and after getting really used to it I sprung for the quick release mounting plates and made a really nice captains chair. it took a lot of thought and experimenting but I managed to get it with a bit of wood and hose clamps. I love my new ergo chair so much its just amazing with this keyboard. my only complaint is that the bluetooth dongle for my pc needs to be literally within line of sight so I can't be wireless and partially under my desk I have to be completely visible to the dongle which is really really annoying, but regardless this keyboard is the shit. the rgb will kill the battery very quickly don't even bother with that lol.
Great video! I found the transition to the new key layout very painful and actually gave up at the first attempt. Went back to it a month or 2 later and now I absolutely love it. I've been going through some novels and short stories on Entertrained and can type for a really long time without fatigue! Instead of an expensive mounting system, I use a small sack of rice on the desk for positional tenting. Works surprisingly well and cost me about £8 in total. (I don't care about esthetics, clearly...) 😆 The only thing that might be even more comfortable for me is a dactyl manuform. I don't really like hitting the thumb-clusters with the side of my thumb and now have calluses there - with a manuform you hit them with the pads.
Hey 👋 Really enjoy your videos, and (very) recently purchased a glove80 myself to use for software dev. Would be very interested to see you do a run through of your glove80 keymap if you've spent much time customising it. Trying to work out what layout to crib from when making my own, without having to start from the absolute beginning and sinking 10s of hours into it before I get proficient. I've seen a few others that look good, but would be curious to hear more about how you settled on yours and what's important to you. I see you linked your git repo for it, but even so.
Hey, thanks for the video. I can confidently say you are the reason I decided to purchase a glove80. I'm on macOS and use it primarily for software dev as well. Would love a video like this in the future.
An issue I have with this keyboard is it will slide around on your desk if you place it on a desk mat. It’s too light for the rubber feet to get a good grip in that situation. However, removing the desk mat and having it placed on the desk surface itself resolved that issue. I’m curious for you to review the Dygma Defy keyboard. Also, which do you prefer? The voyager or the glove?
This video has actully been the most convincing sell for me, I think the criticism really helps me believe the praise now it's only a matter of finding the money for it haha
Thanks for this. I’ve been wondering about the voyager vs the Glove. I’m looking to make my own while funds are tight. Honestly, moErgo if you’re listening: I’d love a less-expensive Glove40 similar to a Hillside or Corne, but with same keywell and good tenting options. Oh and Sunset switches. Thanks for all you do!
I would love a glove42 or a glove44, with wireless, and the deep keywell, and the low profile switches. However, I would prefer a more extreme wrist tent or tripod quick mounts. I also could do without the wristrests. and at least a 3 button thumb cluster.
Probably the best review of this keyboard I’ve seen. I’m debating between this or the advantage 360. I’m a big gamer, how does the glove80 perform? Is there any lag given that it has to use Bluetooth all the time for the right side?
Would be nice to see indexing on the adjustment legs so you can match them on each side.....or be able to get back to original position if you experiment with different angles.
I wondered if that was what the white pieces in the bag were for. Threading them on the bolt as spacers? That would be the indexing. But the lock washer idea did firm up the wobble problem better than I thought.
Please do a video on the alternative you’re using to the MoErgo layout builder. I have the Glove80 and would love a more intuitive/less power user friendly interface.
Maybe an improvement for the tenting legs would just be increasing thread diameter? So the screw-turn height increment is larger? I'm sure they must've considered this, maybe it's just less good of a couple, more wobbly. But then the o-ring clamp-down could patch that back up?
I do electronics work on the side. If you can adjust the screws just right, you can cut a small plastic (or metal) tube the right length and put the screws through it and lightly tighten against the tube. That will keep the height stable. I'm still watching the video, but I thought that might be helpful. I do the same sort of thing with leads coming off of components like resistors on a circuit board to prevent shorts.
Of course, I just saw the nuts and o-rings part. That's a major PITA to do. I've done that for years with nuts and bolts and getting things stable and the right length doing that is just hard.
Really looking fwd to hearing about a comparison with the other brands out there. For such a Niche market $400 keyboards i would say im not in the market. But my hope is that all keyboards transition to whatever is most functional for Humans and if this was $100-200, id probably buy it.
Kinesis 2 has been near $400 for the decades I had an eye on it. Prices only go up so if you're in RSI typing trouble, just get funds together and buy one of them. The high price is probably to get corporation health plans to pay for them for stressed out typists, I always suspected...
8:00 cool, didn't know about MCC, looks like a cylindrical cut, like the ones on steno keycaps, contrast with the spherical cut MBK or flat top used on some laptop keyboards.
Hope you'll get a chance to review the Dygma Defy. Would love to hear your thoughts on its ergonomics and software. Alluminum build and Thumbcluster especially looks promising, though I probably would prefer a low profile option like the Glove80 (always used normal Cherry style keyboards, only recently tried a low profile one (Sharkoon PureWriter) to see if I could live with Chocs on the Glove80, and have to say, Cherry now feels a bit clumsy to me in comparison).
Thanks for the in-depth and articulate review.. I'm in love with my moonlander however being a person with slightly smaller hands I constantly crave the wells as I simply cannot access it as designed. Much to think about as I save up for the next thing... Also yes, I hate being "the keyboard guy" in my place of work
Currently buying the hardware to mount this keyboard to my desk 🎉 ✏️ You forgot to add the 1/4" female female adapter to the amazon list, the one that is used between the c clamp and arm
The right side battery drain issue is a known issue I believe. There are steps to fix it on Discord. I don't know why they haven't fixed it for V2 version...
Good review, one thing to note about your pinky reaching issue is that its specific to you. Without giving you a formal diagnosis it looks like you don’t use your wrist flexor muscles which would lead to issues with using your pinky.
Makes sense. But yeah you can tell by how you move your hand around. Basically the outer joint on your wrist has no tension from the lack of flexion in your wrist. No tension there means the outer part of your hand and pinky have no stability which is why it feels hard to reach
I was debating between the Glove80 and hte Dygma Defy. The problem with the Glove80 is the thumb cluster design. You have to reach forward to press the top keys, which is difficult. On the Defy you curl the thumb in towards the hand, and all keys are within easy reach. A pity because I am a big fan of the wells, but this time I'll be getting the Defy.
neighbor and i get a bit of keyboards, we both engineers. short version he has glove and he just ordered a defy after using my defy. i will not be ordering a glove80. he might return it, it is almost 400 usd
I have the Defy, and while the glove80 cluster does look worse, I disagree that all keys are easy to reach on the Defy. The bottom 3 thumb keys are reachable, but you would definitely develop RSI if you regularly pressed them - I just have them set for macros and layer locking
Great video! I have been thinking of going with the glove80 in the future. Loved the breakdown. I would also love to hear your thoughts on the Keyboardio Model 100.
Great video! I'm pretty hype for this. Not sure I'm ready for that $ tag but I could see it happening. Do you have an opinion on linear vs tactile for ergonomics? I've seen the debate that tactile can be better at keeping people from bottoming out so I'm not sure what I should be using.
My bet is that actuation force matters more than whether or not the switches are linear or tactile. If comparing a linear vs tactile switch with the same gf, I doubt the difference would matter enough to be noticeable.
A lot of review videos and comments speak about issues with pain of various kinds with different keyboards. If this is you, look into hand stretches and exercises for carpal tunnel relief whether you have CT or not. Maintaining strength ans flexibilty is critical to thwart these issues. Quite often the pain and discomfort is a result of a lack of strength in the hand and forearm combined with long term fixed hand positions.
Are these, like the glove 80 or Voyager or Kinesis, good for dealing with tendinitis? I’ve really been developing more pain in my tendons which is likely due to my desk being higher and arching my wrist. I feel like split keyboards are the only ones for me that will keep my tendon flares in my hands with their ergonomics. Any thoughts?
Personally I'd much prefer a heavier build version - preferably aluminum. At least heavy enough to not have to worry about the Glove80 to slide around on a table mat. Also, a purchase option with black key caps right away would be nice. Unfortunate, that it has no per key backlight settings, but understand that it is a ZMK limitation. Other than that it looks like a winner.
I guess waiting fifteen years for the Kinesis to go mechanical and get my hands on were worth the wait for the next gen to come out. I'd been using a Gateway Computer ergo I found at the thrift for so long, it's time for a change from convex to concave!
Thank you for a good review, but there is always a "but", the palms should not lie on the stand when typing is active, it was not invented by me, but by such unknown companies as Kinesis: The integrated palm supports reduce stressful bending of the wrist and provide a convenient place to rest your hands when you are not actively typing. Microsoft: Keep your wrists in line with your forearms. Do not use wrist rest areas while typing. Also, according to the rules, you need to clamp the modifier with the opposite hand, the only case when this is impossible is when the hand is on the mouse, but what prevented you from reprogramming the keyboard there so that you don't have to stretch and suffer?
I wonder why companies keep getting the thumb key placement wrong. No reason to have a keys so far away from the thumbs. Might as well not include those far off keys and make the keyboard less wide. Or perhaps they could "surround" your thumb with one key to the right and the left of your thumb at a 90 degree angle, and one key that you press down on.
After typing on offset keys for so long these column layouts, I'm just not sure at my age I'd adapt very fast. Also sounds a little silly to say to the consumer coming with a user qualm, "Eh, f-it, we've studied it to death" where other keyboards failed because they're time consuming to adjust. Maybe a 3-D printed little handle pressure fit to the foot would help spin it a bunch of times. The mounting idea just blows my brain. They don't need tenting for superusers if they're building their own chair stands. Are you then using eye-tracking for mouse movements?
Hey, you're using the same magnetic usb-c 'trick' I do. Very cool, and makes swapping or taking your cabled keyboards sweet and easy. Sigh.. I hemmed and hawed over which to get, and I took too so much time waffling, and weirdly I saw a HHKB on sale for $50 off, so I dove at that. So now I gotta wait and pace myself again, for these two. Great review, only gonna make me struggle more to try not to spend money like it grows from trees..
Thank you, for this video! I really appreciate you taking the time and effort! I've been programming for the last 20 years and I've just started experiencing RSI symptoms. Your videos are very helpful. Glove80 and the Voyager both seem to be great solutions. I love the idea about the keywells. However I've been thinking recently that the Voyager having less keys might actually be better for my symptoms, as stretching would be even less than with the Glove80. Do you agree?
For me, stretching is less on the Glove80 because of the concave keywell, but the smaller layout of the Voyager results in overall less finger travel. Either keyboard would be an improvement, but for different reasons. If your symptoms are really bad, the Glove80 is probably the safer bet. Otherwise, I'd get whichever board speaks to you the most.
@@ifcodingwerenatural Than you for the advice! To be honest I love how the Voyager looks and the hot swap capability! I printed the layout and made a cardboard version of it just to try out if I would be able to reach the keys comfortably. I am happy I did it because that was the only way to notice that my pinkies are not able to reach the key above the home row without also moving my whole hand. Maybe it would’ve been easier if they had used choc spacing instead of MX. Anyway, my heart wants the Voyager, but my reasoning points towards the Glove80. I can’t afford to stop working right now, so I reckon the wise decision would be to go with the Glove80. Also this seems to be a shorter journey to an RSI free workday, given that I would need to find a proper way to tent the Voyager as well as adequate palm support for it. I really feel under pressure to find a solution for my RSI fast. I would really have preferred to go ZSA and have been struggling with my dislike for the Glove80 tenting design and how bulky it is when packed. Thank you once again for your time and your reply! All the best to you! P.S. Loved the “1 hug per like idea” !
all the questions about reviewing the dygma defy make me think that these are fake comments from dygma trying to advertise their board. that‘s ridiculous
Or from lost bois like myself who want to see someone actually knowledgeable give a nuanced review of it not just “this is Keyboard Jesus”. I am looking to potentially get one but the more i lurk in their discord, the more i see issues that i have not seen in any full review like abysmal battery life, unstable tenting, inconvenient switching from bt to rf to wired, connectivity issues, apparently not working with KVM’s and some weird cable specification limitations just to name a few. Now for someone completely in the dark about anything other than a regular off the shelf board it’s hard to asses the validity and/or severity of these concerns. Which is where a review of a similar depth to this one would probably clear most of that up So yes please do a review and no I am not a dyma person even though that’s a exactly what a dygma person would say 😆
someone please comment; is this keyboard also versatile enough for gaming with traditional WASD ? I could just switch to my wooting when gaming, but constantly swapping keyboards is annoying.. Also, the low-profile caps make me sceptical, because I make more typing errors with other low-profile boards.
In his most recent video comparing the Voyager, Moonlander, Kinesis, and Glove 80, he mentioned that using WASD on the glove80 was slightly uncomfortable for him. I don’t own it so I can’t comment on it.
If you have hand, wrist or shoulder RSI I honestly recommend moving to dictation software to vastly reduce keyboard use. This isn’t so helpful for software coding unfortunately.
Dygma Defy is what I've elected for as my long term ergo commitment. Built like a tank, and I haven't been a fan of welled prototypes I've built and played with.
I'm still adapting to my Defy as my first split keyboard as well as my first keyboard with columnar layout and thumb clusters. A lot to get used to! The one thing I can say for certain at this point is that the build quality is fantastic. Really solid feeling, even while tented, and the wrist pads are really nice too.
they need some sort of configuration tool that shows an image of the keyboard and you select a key with your mouse and press a button on your other keyboard to have that programmed onto the new keyboard. i did built my own iris keyboards many years ago, and i didn't know anything about github or qmk or any code writing at all and it just sucked so bad it took me month to always fiddle arround after work with that shit that i am totally not interested in. since my layout is a german, very non default, layout there was no way to use anyone elses config. I don't get it, my 10 $ knockoff brand "gaming" mouse has a software included that can handle your inputs and just bind them to buttons of the mouse. for such an expensive device they have to add software that can do that or they gonna miss/frustrate many customers
I understand it's in good faith when you say that this is the "best keyboard on the market", but I take issue with broad statements like that in that your board line-up shows that you simply don't really recognize what exists in the market. For example, the Charybdis and other Dactyl Manuform type keyboards exist that have various subjectively superior characteristics to all of the keyboards you demo'd.
@@beginanewt no. People expect reviews to be impartial, it is a review. Once a company sponsors a review, it is not longer a review but an advertisement and should be treated as such, and not as a review with the person trying to seem like they review it for real.
Video production feedback: stop moving the keyboard around every 5 seconds, it is impossible to really get a good look at it because you pick it up and spin it around so much.
I don't know, your note about the tenting solution feels a bit disproportionate. Yes steps are easy, but they're easy because *they limit user choices*. You don't get to adjust the height to better match your needs. In your opinion then, as you presented it (just to make the point, I know you wouldn't agree with this), the best tenting solution is NO tenting solution, since you don't even have to do anything to get the "proper" (designer-imposed) tenting angle. Also I feel like you didn't appropriately attribute how awesome that tenting solution is in terms of being able to *CUSTOM MOUNT* the keyboard to the wonderfully ergonomic position of onto your armrest. Is there any other keyboard on the market that provides that possibility? Is there? It really opens the door to tons of possibilities by bridging into the camera mount market. That's really really huge. Also it's theoretically a onetime cost. I don't know, it just seemed unfair & excessive, especially since you didn't present these caveats which I think you probably DID think of, but for some reason left out just so that your criticism held more weight. Otherwise great review! Thanks so much. I by contrast actually liked that you kept moving the keyboard around. I can tune-into you talking while getting a bunch of angles for the keyboard and how it physically handles. I disagree with that other guy who criticized you for that.
I welcome comments like yours!... unlike that other guy 😆. Anyway, to clarify my thoughts on the tenting solution, I freely admit my criticism was based on personal preferences. For those who want no compromises in ergonomics, then yeah, I'm dead wrong. But I'm a common peasant among the masses who'd gladly accept more convenience in exchange for limited choices. I originally planned to go way deeper into the mounting options, but the video would have become way too long. I'm a little surprised you thought my criticisms were "unfair & excessive", especially when I praised the mounting system in this video. I say what I think and don't purposefully omit information for the sake of adding more weight to a point I'm trying to make. But, that's also why I enjoy comments like yours so much. It's incredibly hard to present clear information while simultaneously diving into the nuances, so people like you help fill in the gaps and balance things out. Thanks!
I'd like to gently point out your intermittent self-critical commentary.
So I can COMPLETELY REBUKE IT.
You most definitely do NOT "suck at this."
You're highly articulate. You drill into the key aspects in an honest, attention-sustaining, and even hilarious way [re: "screwing" 😂]
Its so damn normal to take a "long" time creating content, although you can get faster with time.
And I really appreciate how much this vid helps me quickly surmise about the Glove vs. alternatives.
Anywho, self-criticism is so pervasive and even glorified in our culture. My pointing this out may yield NULL.
Nonetheless, I hope you seek to condition more positive self-noticing. And generally diminish the so-called "inner critic."
You can become massively successful without doing this. People do it all the time. But I want you to know and enjoy who you are all along the way.
For more in this, see Pete Walker's books.
In any case,
Cheers !
Wow, massive YES to this comment. 👏🏼
And thank you to the video creator!
I have both Glove 80 and Adv 360 Pro. For me,
Switch choices: Adv 360 Pro.
Build quality: Adv 360 Pro.
Tenting: Adv 360 Pro.
Configuration: Glove 80. Really...Kinesis..wake up and make something better.
Comfort: Glove 80
Community: Glove 80
Bluetooth connectivity: Glove 80. Kinesis...I gave up using with two computers (Yes, I'm using V3 firmware)
I use Glove 80 way more now.
I like the low profile switches more, but otherwise agree with your assessment.
Glove80 + mounting plate + trackball captain's chair is unbelievably badass. Definitely want to try that one day.
Thank you for this! It's refreshing to see a real review with things like the "q" key. So many vids on products don't go into actual detail like this, you rock!
I went from Kinesis Advantage 2 to glove80 about 2 months ago. Just the open-source ZMK firmware over kinesis' proprietary firmware was worth the upgrade for me, every other benefit (style, switches, bluetooth, discord community) was a bonus. Barring custom keyboards, I think this is the best keyboard on the market (at least for programmers) and worth every penny. If you're on the fence, just buy it.
Did you felt any difference in typing? Which one would you recommend to someone transitioning from a standard keyboard
I can concur. Great choice.
Thank you for such a comprehensive first impression. It does however stretches the envelope of a first impression :D I wonder how long your review will be.
A few comments:
1. I noticed that you use a magnetic USB connector. We strongly recommend against magnetic USB connectors. We don't know of any magnetic USB connector that complies with the USB specification. Specifically, the ground pin should be the first to connect and the last to disconnect according to USB spec. If this is not observed it is very possible to damage the connected devices.
2. Regarding the tenting mechanism: it is a deliberate choice after testing just about every tenting mechanism under the sun.
a. Once you have found the perfect position, you won't have to change the tenting again. However, a non-optimal tenting position is a compromise for comfort forever. So we opt for a mechanism that allows fine-tuning, since we ound from extensive experiments that even 1 or 2 degrees is enough to make a big comfort difference.
b. A low typing height is critical for a neutral tilt typing position (i.e. wrist not bent upwards) on standard height desks. As such we chose a tenting mechanism that does not increase the typing height - not many mechanisms fit this requirement.
Thanks for the warning about the magnetic USB adapters, I wasn't aware they could damage connected devices! As far as video length goes for first impressions, that's just how I roll 😎
The M4 system looks pretty good! I like that it is ultimately a fine-tuned, one-and-done adjustment.
There are other mechanisms you could use that would allow fine grained adjustments without adding nuts to a wobbly screw, this kind of jank is not acceptable at this price point
I watched a ton of videos and did a lot of research to find the perfect keyboard for me. Your videos helped me choose the glove80 and I literally can't imagine life without it now. I'm a full time software engineer and this has been one of the best purchases of my career! Thanks so much for the great videos and recommendation. Can't sing my praises of the keyboard enough
I have a lot of keyboards and this one is clearly the best one. I wished it was released sooner. I would have saved a lot of money.
Sell the others?
This was very comprehensive, thank you so much. I just bought it and it's in the mail (you helped me make the decision as to which one to buy). :) x
Great video. +1 to the wife! I ordered a glove80 on the weekend so I'm very glad your latest thoughts were positive ones. I also went for the red pros in the end so my fingers are crossed they aren't too light but I'm thinking that I'll just get used to it. The other thing is that until my keychron k2 (current KB), I'd always had low profile keyboards so I might actually find the key feel is going back to something, time wise, I've used more of.
Really appreciate these videos. These kinds of keyboards are not something many people normally come across unless specifically looking for them and with how relatively expensive they are it's really valuable to get some good information before deciding which one to go with. And a big thank you to your wife for her part in making these videos possible. My new Glove80 should arrive any day now :)
The price seems high, but compared to other split keyboard options, the value started to shine.
I wonder if someone out there already copying this design...
I really love the board, the design, the company and the owner. BUT, I just want to provide a warning to others I wish I knew because it's a hefty chunk of money. Like any one size fits all product, it's design to fit most hands. I just happen to not fit that well and so in my case, even after using it for a year... I just never got fully comfortable and it hurt my wpm and error rate. My issue is, that while I have large hands, I have large palms and shorter fingers apparently than average. What this does is change the reach-ability of the keys due to the keywell. So I had to constantly move my hands to hit keys and thumb keys and the keywell really needs the wrist rest and hovering wrist at that height is just not realistic through a whole day. Idk, I was distraught that I was immediately faster and less error prone when I switched to another non-keywell keyboard bc I wasted a lot of money and a year of trying to use it. But my experience seems to be rare.
Thanks for making this video! I have ordered a Glove80. I am used to the Logitech K860 so hope the learning curve will be manageable.
Was waiting for this video
Such a comprehensive review. Thanks for making this!
Looking forward to the comparison video!
I currently have a Dygma Raise and I’m thinking about repurchasing for my Mac. My shortlist: Dactyl, Voyayer and this one. And I’ve never tried a well. Choices, choices
got this keyboard a few weeks ago. this was my first ergo venture ever, glad I did my research!
I really should learn zmk so that I could take a look at your keymap. I've only done simple remaps inside the editor, and it's very comfortable but there are a few keys I can't figure out where to put, like ctrl, shift, cmd. great video!
Good video, as always. btw I was shocked by the father of 3 part... omg, I'm struggling with one! lol.
I really liked the video, keep it up!
The struggle is real 😅
Maybe instead of overstimulating hugs, you can try to build in some automation in the house to make her life easier. I can't imagine the work she had to do to keep them kids occupied even for this 3 hr recording 🥲
I'll give a like solely for the struggle. I'm with Egel, i'm struggling with 1, though we don't have family help.
@@mistsriderComments like this make me SO happy I don’t have kids lmao
I got one of these for myself for Christmas and after getting really used to it I sprung for the quick release mounting plates and made a really nice captains chair. it took a lot of thought and experimenting but I managed to get it with a bit of wood and hose clamps. I love my new ergo chair so much its just amazing with this keyboard. my only complaint is that the bluetooth dongle for my pc needs to be literally within line of sight so I can't be wireless and partially under my desk I have to be completely visible to the dongle which is really really annoying, but regardless this keyboard is the shit. the rgb will kill the battery very quickly don't even bother with that lol.
Thanks for making the video. If you end up buying the Tripod Mount accessory for the Voyager, I would like to see how it turns out.
Great video! I found the transition to the new key layout very painful and actually gave up at the first attempt. Went back to it a month or 2 later and now I absolutely love it. I've been going through some novels and short stories on Entertrained and can type for a really long time without fatigue! Instead of an expensive mounting system, I use a small sack of rice on the desk for positional tenting. Works surprisingly well and cost me about £8 in total. (I don't care about esthetics, clearly...) 😆
The only thing that might be even more comfortable for me is a dactyl manuform. I don't really like hitting the thumb-clusters with the side of my thumb and now have calluses there - with a manuform you hit them with the pads.
Hey 👋 Really enjoy your videos, and (very) recently purchased a glove80 myself to use for software dev. Would be very interested to see you do a run through of your glove80 keymap if you've spent much time customising it. Trying to work out what layout to crib from when making my own, without having to start from the absolute beginning and sinking 10s of hours into it before I get proficient. I've seen a few others that look good, but would be curious to hear more about how you settled on yours and what's important to you. I see you linked your git repo for it, but even so.
Hey, thanks for the video. I can confidently say you are the reason I decided to purchase a glove80. I'm on macOS and use it primarily for software dev as well. Would love a video like this in the future.
Good review, the hand movements really put me off and made some parts hard to follow.
An issue I have with this keyboard is it will slide around on your desk if you place it on a desk mat. It’s too light for the rubber feet to get a good grip in that situation. However, removing the desk mat and having it placed on the desk surface itself resolved that issue.
I’m curious for you to review the Dygma Defy keyboard.
Also, which do you prefer? The voyager or the glove?
This video has actully been the most convincing sell for me, I think the criticism really helps me believe the praise now it's only a matter of finding the money for it haha
I would definitely watch a Keymap-editor tutorial
Thanks for this. I’ve been wondering about the voyager vs the Glove. I’m looking to make my own while funds are tight.
Honestly, moErgo if you’re listening: I’d love a less-expensive Glove40 similar to a Hillside or Corne, but with same keywell and good tenting options. Oh and Sunset switches. Thanks for all you do!
I would love a glove42 or a glove44, with wireless, and the deep keywell, and the low profile switches. However, I would prefer a more extreme wrist tent or tripod quick mounts. I also could do without the wristrests. and at least a 3 button thumb cluster.
Probably the best review of this keyboard I’ve seen. I’m debating between this or the advantage 360. I’m a big gamer, how does the glove80 perform? Is there any lag given that it has to use Bluetooth all the time for the right side?
Would be nice to see indexing on the adjustment legs so you can match them on each side.....or be able to get back to original position if you experiment with different angles.
I wondered if that was what the white pieces in the bag were for. Threading them on the bolt as spacers? That would be the indexing. But the lock washer idea did firm up the wobble problem better than I thought.
Please do a video on the alternative you’re using to the MoErgo layout builder. I have the Glove80 and would love a more intuitive/less power user friendly interface.
Maybe an improvement for the tenting legs would just be increasing thread diameter? So the screw-turn height increment is larger? I'm sure they must've considered this, maybe it's just less good of a couple, more wobbly. But then the o-ring clamp-down could patch that back up?
I do electronics work on the side. If you can adjust the screws just right, you can cut a small plastic (or metal) tube the right length and put the screws through it and lightly tighten against the tube. That will keep the height stable. I'm still watching the video, but I thought that might be helpful. I do the same sort of thing with leads coming off of components like resistors on a circuit board to prevent shorts.
Of course, I just saw the nuts and o-rings part. That's a major PITA to do. I've done that for years with nuts and bolts and getting things stable and the right length doing that is just hard.
Really looking fwd to hearing about a comparison with the other brands out there. For such a Niche market $400 keyboards i would say im not in the market. But my hope is that all keyboards transition to whatever is most functional for Humans and if this was $100-200, id probably buy it.
Kinesis 2 has been near $400 for the decades I had an eye on it. Prices only go up so if you're in RSI typing trouble, just get funds together and buy one of them. The high price is probably to get corporation health plans to pay for them for stressed out typists, I always suspected...
8:00 cool, didn't know about MCC, looks like a cylindrical cut, like the ones on steno keycaps, contrast with the spherical cut MBK or flat top used on some laptop keyboards.
Hope you'll get a chance to review the Dygma Defy. Would love to hear your thoughts on its ergonomics and software.
Alluminum build and Thumbcluster especially looks promising, though I probably would prefer a low profile option like the Glove80 (always used normal Cherry style keyboards, only recently tried a low profile one (Sharkoon PureWriter) to see if I could live with Chocs on the Glove80, and have to say, Cherry now feels a bit clumsy to me in comparison).
Thanks for the in-depth and articulate review.. I'm in love with my moonlander however being a person with slightly smaller hands I constantly crave the wells as I simply cannot access it as designed.
Much to think about as I save up for the next thing... Also yes, I hate being "the keyboard guy" in my place of work
A tutorial on how to do glove 80 on that layout editor would be incredible
Great review! I'm looking forward to your comparison with your Voyager!
Currently buying the hardware to mount this keyboard to my desk 🎉 ✏️ You forgot to add the 1/4" female female adapter to the amazon list, the one that is used between the c clamp and arm
Do you use an ergo mouse? If so, make a vid on those too please! :D Much appreciated
The right side battery drain issue is a known issue I believe. There are steps to fix it on Discord. I don't know why they haven't fixed it for V2 version...
Good review, one thing to note about your pinky reaching issue is that its specific to you. Without giving you a formal diagnosis it looks like you don’t use your wrist flexor muscles which would lead to issues with using your pinky.
Absolutely! RSI is very specific to the individual. Interesting observation about my wrist flexor muscles, I'll have to look into this.
Makes sense. But yeah you can tell by how you move your hand around. Basically the outer joint on your wrist has no tension from the lack of flexion in your wrist. No tension there means the outer part of your hand and pinky have no stability which is why it feels hard to reach
I was debating between the Glove80 and hte Dygma Defy. The problem with the Glove80 is the thumb cluster design. You have to reach forward to press the top keys, which is difficult. On the Defy you curl the thumb in towards the hand, and all keys are within easy reach. A pity because I am a big fan of the wells, but this time I'll be getting the Defy.
neighbor and i get a bit of keyboards, we both engineers. short version he has glove and he just ordered a defy after using my defy. i will not be ordering a glove80. he might return it, it is almost 400 usd
I have the Defy, and while the glove80 cluster does look worse, I disagree that all keys are easy to reach on the Defy. The bottom 3 thumb keys are reachable, but you would definitely develop RSI if you regularly pressed them - I just have them set for macros and layer locking
1.1k hugs and going!
Funny, so the o-rings act like shock absorbers. I didn't understand that on the site, only makes sense with a physical demonstration.
Great video! I have been thinking of going with the glove80 in the future. Loved the breakdown.
I would also love to hear your thoughts on the Keyboardio Model 100.
I had this one but I do not keep it mainly because of wrist rest
i really got worried for 0.5s when you said your wife is constantly bothered by "getting punched". HUUUGGEEE relief when you said "by her children"
It's over 9000 (almost)!
Great video! I'm pretty hype for this. Not sure I'm ready for that $ tag but I could see it happening. Do you have an opinion on linear vs tactile for ergonomics? I've seen the debate that tactile can be better at keeping people from bottoming out so I'm not sure what I should be using.
My bet is that actuation force matters more than whether or not the switches are linear or tactile. If comparing a linear vs tactile switch with the same gf, I doubt the difference would matter enough to be noticeable.
have you ever been interested in checking out a Dygma Keyboard? Like the new Defy?
A lot of review videos and comments speak about issues with pain of various kinds with different keyboards. If this is you, look into hand stretches and exercises for carpal tunnel relief whether you have CT or not. Maintaining strength ans flexibilty is critical to thwart these issues. Quite often the pain and discomfort is a result of a lack of strength in the hand and forearm combined with long term fixed hand positions.
Are these, like the glove 80 or Voyager or Kinesis, good for dealing with tendinitis? I’ve really been developing more pain in my tendons which is likely due to my desk being higher and arching my wrist. I feel like split keyboards are the only ones for me that will keep my tendon flares in my hands with their ergonomics. Any thoughts?
Personally I'd much prefer a heavier build version - preferably aluminum. At least heavy enough to not have to worry about the Glove80 to slide around on a table mat.
Also, a purchase option with black key caps right away would be nice.
Unfortunate, that it has no per key backlight settings, but understand that it is a ZMK limitation.
Other than that it looks like a winner.
I was going to mention dactyl manuform keyboards when you said there were only two concave key-well boards, but then you said on the market haha
I guess waiting fifteen years for the Kinesis to go mechanical and get my hands on were worth the wait for the next gen to come out. I'd been using a Gateway Computer ergo I found at the thrift for so long, it's time for a change from convex to concave!
Don’t know why but bit surprised he has his keyboards in QWERTY layout.
Thank you for a good review, but there is always a "but", the palms should not lie on the stand when typing is active, it was not invented by me, but by such unknown companies as
Kinesis:
The integrated palm supports reduce stressful bending of the wrist and provide a convenient place to rest your hands when you are not actively typing.
Microsoft:
Keep your wrists in line with your forearms.
Do not use wrist rest areas while typing.
Also, according to the rules, you need to clamp the modifier with the opposite hand, the only case when this is impossible is when the hand is on the mouse, but what prevented you from reprogramming the keyboard there so that you don't have to stretch and suffer?
Great review, thank you
Do you have an affiliate link for the Glove 80? I would love to support the channel when buying one of these bad boys
They need to do a Hotswap version and MX option desperately. They will be hard to stop if so.
How do you use your mouse when using mounting kit ?
I wonder why companies keep getting the thumb key placement wrong. No reason to have a keys so far away from the thumbs. Might as well not include those far off keys and make the keyboard less wide. Or perhaps they could "surround" your thumb with one key to the right and the left of your thumb at a 90 degree angle, and one key that you press down on.
After typing on offset keys for so long these column layouts, I'm just not sure at my age I'd adapt very fast. Also sounds a little silly to say to the consumer coming with a user qualm, "Eh, f-it, we've studied it to death" where other keyboards failed because they're time consuming to adjust. Maybe a 3-D printed little handle pressure fit to the foot would help spin it a bunch of times. The mounting idea just blows my brain. They don't need tenting for superusers if they're building their own chair stands. Are you then using eye-tracking for mouse movements?
@@cynvision real pros use custom made foot trackballs and dick tracking.
Hey, you're using the same magnetic usb-c 'trick' I do. Very cool, and makes swapping or taking your cabled keyboards sweet and easy.
Sigh.. I hemmed and hawed over which to get, and I took too so much time waffling, and weirdly I saw a HHKB on sale for $50 off, so I dove at that.
So now I gotta wait and pace myself again, for these two.
Great review, only gonna make me struggle more to try not to spend money like it grows from trees..
The struggle is real. If I got all the keyboards I currently want to try, I’d easily be out $2,000 😮💨.
Thank you, for this video! I really appreciate you taking the time and effort! I've been programming for the last 20 years and I've just started experiencing RSI symptoms. Your videos are very helpful. Glove80 and the Voyager both seem to be great solutions. I love the idea about the keywells. However I've been thinking recently that the Voyager having less keys might actually be better for my symptoms, as stretching would be even less than with the Glove80. Do you agree?
For me, stretching is less on the Glove80 because of the concave keywell, but the smaller layout of the Voyager results in overall less finger travel. Either keyboard would be an improvement, but for different reasons. If your symptoms are really bad, the Glove80 is probably the safer bet. Otherwise, I'd get whichever board speaks to you the most.
@@ifcodingwerenatural Than you for the advice! To be honest I love how the Voyager looks and the hot swap capability! I printed the layout and made a cardboard version of it just to try out if I would be able to reach the keys comfortably. I am happy I did it because that was the only way to notice that my pinkies are not able to reach the key above the home row without also moving my whole hand. Maybe it would’ve been easier if they had used choc spacing instead of MX. Anyway, my heart wants the Voyager, but my reasoning points towards the Glove80. I can’t afford to stop working right now, so I reckon the wise decision would be to go with the Glove80. Also this seems to be a shorter journey to an RSI free workday, given that I would need to find a proper way to tent the Voyager as well as adequate palm support for it. I really feel under pressure to find a solution for my RSI fast. I would really have preferred to go ZSA and have been struggling with my dislike for the Glove80 tenting design and how bulky it is when packed. Thank you once again for your time and your reply! All the best to you!
P.S. Loved the “1 hug per like idea” !
all the questions about reviewing the dygma defy make me think that these are fake comments from dygma trying to advertise their board. that‘s ridiculous
You know, that thought has crossed my mind...
Or from lost bois like myself who want to see someone actually knowledgeable give a nuanced review of it not just “this is Keyboard Jesus”.
I am looking to potentially get one but the more i lurk in their discord, the more i see issues that i have not seen in any full review like abysmal battery life, unstable tenting, inconvenient switching from bt to rf to wired, connectivity issues, apparently not working with KVM’s and some weird cable specification limitations just to name a few. Now for someone completely in the dark about anything other than a regular off the shelf board it’s hard to asses the validity and/or severity of these concerns.
Which is where a review of a similar depth to this one would probably clear most of that up
So yes please do a review and no I am not a dyma person even though that’s a exactly what a dygma person would say 😆
someone please comment; is this keyboard also versatile enough for gaming with traditional WASD ? I could just switch to my wooting when gaming, but constantly swapping keyboards is annoying.. Also, the low-profile caps make me sceptical, because I make more typing errors with other low-profile boards.
In his most recent video comparing the Voyager, Moonlander, Kinesis, and Glove 80, he mentioned that using WASD on the glove80 was slightly uncomfortable for him. I don’t own it so I can’t comment on it.
Had mine for nearly a year now - it's not perfect, but I can't use anything else.
Nice first look, would be interesting to hear your opinions on the "Dygma Defy" keyboard.
how do you type curly braces { } and square brackets [ ] on this thing?
Fantastic vid
Does it support chords? In other words can you, for example, map pressing J and K simultaneously to emitting a Backspace.
Yes, but they're called combos in ZMK.
hey, can i ask you something? do you crack your wrists, and does that help your rsi?
If you have hand, wrist or shoulder RSI I honestly recommend moving to dictation software to vastly reduce keyboard use. This isn’t so helpful for software coding unfortunately.
In Europe I can buy 1 Advantage 360 or two Glove80s.
Glove80 it is!
Advantage 360 is 609,-
Advantage 360 Pro is 649,-
Glove80 is 375,-
does them work in linux ?
Absolutely! It works without any issues (I use arch btw)
I just have one question based on the last 15 seconds... if u are typing like that, in what moment do use ur mouse!?, how do u use it?
Yeah, using the mouse like this is quite the difficulty tbh. I love typing with it mounted, but it makes using the mouse a pain.
Over 9,000 !!!! :D
Someone noticed!
@ifcodingwerenatural I can't believe there weren't like 10 more comments about it, lmao
2:57 Shout out to all the amazing wives out there :) (Mine included x1000) !
I am wondering why not many content creators review Dygmas keyboards…
$$$
what was conected in the usbc in the voyager?
It's a magnetic usb-c adapter.
> You will not find a more ergonomic keyboard than the Glove80, currently on the market
ThePrimeagen in shambles!
Did i miss a section where you talked about using the keyboard, how it was, etc ?
6:30 - 13:24
Dygma Defy is what I've elected for as my long term ergo commitment. Built like a tank, and I haven't been a fan of welled prototypes I've built and played with.
Since a few weeks I also own a Dygma Defy. I can really recommend it, as it feels like a Ferrari for type writers.
I'm still adapting to my Defy as my first split keyboard as well as my first keyboard with columnar layout and thumb clusters. A lot to get used to! The one thing I can say for certain at this point is that the build quality is fantastic. Really solid feeling, even while tented, and the wrist pads are really nice too.
You don't use mouse?
In the last shot of the video, is the keyboard chair-mounted?
Nope, mounted on my desk with the C clamps.
Charybdis has a key well
wheres the += button
seems not hotswap?
they need some sort of configuration tool that shows an image of the keyboard and you select a key with your mouse and press a button on your other keyboard to have that programmed onto the new keyboard.
i did built my own iris keyboards many years ago, and i didn't know anything about github or qmk or any code writing at all and it just sucked so bad it took me month to always fiddle arround after work with that shit that i am totally not interested in.
since my layout is a german, very non default, layout there was no way to use anyone elses config.
I don't get it, my 10 $ knockoff brand "gaming" mouse has a software included that can handle your inputs and just bind them to buttons of the mouse.
for such an expensive device they have to add software that can do that or they gonna miss/frustrate many customers
I understand it's in good faith when you say that this is the "best keyboard on the market", but I take issue with broad statements like that in that your board line-up shows that you simply don't really recognize what exists in the market. For example, the Charybdis and other Dactyl Manuform type keyboards exist that have various subjectively superior characteristics to all of the keyboards you demo'd.
i think reviews that are sponsored in any kind of way should be banned/illegal
Should advertising be illegal
@@beginanewt no. People expect reviews to be impartial, it is a review. Once a company sponsors a review, it is not longer a review but an advertisement and should be treated as such, and not as a review with the person trying to seem like they review it for real.
Product with that price shoudn't have any "cosmetic issues" ;)
Facts
If I'm dropping that kind of money on a keyboard, it better be a pretty motherfucker.
Video production feedback: stop moving the keyboard around every 5 seconds, it is impossible to really get a good look at it because you pick it up and spin it around so much.
Where were you at 1:27?
@@EtherealDoomed Writing this comment.
I'm guessing you watched 5 seconds of the 30 minute video, made this comment, and then stopped watching
Videos can be paused, last I checked
Agreed
I don't know, your note about the tenting solution feels a bit disproportionate. Yes steps are easy, but they're easy because *they limit user choices*. You don't get to adjust the height to better match your needs. In your opinion then, as you presented it (just to make the point, I know you wouldn't agree with this), the best tenting solution is NO tenting solution, since you don't even have to do anything to get the "proper" (designer-imposed) tenting angle.
Also I feel like you didn't appropriately attribute how awesome that tenting solution is in terms of being able to *CUSTOM MOUNT* the keyboard to the wonderfully ergonomic position of onto your armrest. Is there any other keyboard on the market that provides that possibility? Is there? It really opens the door to tons of possibilities by bridging into the camera mount market. That's really really huge.
Also it's theoretically a onetime cost.
I don't know, it just seemed unfair & excessive, especially since you didn't present these caveats which I think you probably DID think of, but for some reason left out just so that your criticism held more weight.
Otherwise great review! Thanks so much. I by contrast actually liked that you kept moving the keyboard around. I can tune-into you talking while getting a bunch of angles for the keyboard and how it physically handles. I disagree with that other guy who criticized you for that.
I welcome comments like yours!... unlike that other guy 😆.
Anyway, to clarify my thoughts on the tenting solution, I freely admit my criticism was based on personal preferences. For those who want no compromises in ergonomics, then yeah, I'm dead wrong. But I'm a common peasant among the masses who'd gladly accept more convenience in exchange for limited choices.
I originally planned to go way deeper into the mounting options, but the video would have become way too long. I'm a little surprised you thought my criticisms were "unfair & excessive", especially when I praised the mounting system in this video. I say what I think and don't purposefully omit information for the sake of adding more weight to a point I'm trying to make.
But, that's also why I enjoy comments like yours so much. It's incredibly hard to present clear information while simultaneously diving into the nuances, so people like you help fill in the gaps and balance things out. Thanks!
I disagree with his take on gaming. It works just fine
Try the Dygma Defy
Shout out to ur wife she sounds like a real one bro
The RGB looks offensive AF