Analysis in Wonderland - Tim Burton's Alice Movies
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2019
- The fifth review in my "Analysis in Wonderland" series, covering Tim Burton and Disney's 2010 blockbuster hot mess, "Alice in Wonderland," and its 2016 sequel, "Alice Through the Looking-Glass."
This series is in accordance withe Fair Use Act, under the subject and provisions of criticism. Music and Images Credited in the Video. I OWN NOTHING. NO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT IS INTENDED. ALL RIGHTS GO TO THEIR RESPECTIVE OWNERS.
Fanart of JJHatter Found in Thumbnail Made By: www.deviantart.com/dragonlove...
Next week we finish the first six videos of the series; there will be more, I promise you, I just can't say when they will come.
It's really nice to hear you talk about these movies, given our creative history with them! I definitely had the same year-or-two obsession with it, and then sharply falling off afterwards... I think the fall-off is because while we kept growing, as people and as creatives, the film did not, it just stayed as it was. But the first film was such great fanfic fodder, with how much it hinted at stuff that it didn't actually show in the characters' pasts, and with how fantastic the side characters were (Mally!!! I still love her). I think I started falling out of love with it when I rewatched it one day and realized that most of what I loved about the story was stuff that you and I and the rest of the fic community had put into it, not stuff that was actually in it.
A thought for when this series is done... analysis of Alice book adaptations? I've been thinking about The Looking Glass Wars a lot while watching these.
I actually had the same thought. I'm actually planning to make a short series in the future focusing on my favorite illustrated versions of the original books, and future videos will probably cover things other than films, such as video games and stage plays, so there's no reason I couldn't do The Looking-Glass Wars or other literary reimaginings.
I actually have decided that video number seven - which likely won't be out till AT LEAST sometime in August or September - will be a review of the video game adaptation of the 2010 Tim Burton movie. I'm curious to see how you'll react to that one, too. I've already written the script, it's just that I've got a lot on my plate, including an upcoming vacation, so I won't have time to work on the video properly till then.
And yeah, I think that's more or less it. A lot of movies that we love when we are younger tend to seem less grand than we remember when we revisit them, and I think part of the problem is that fanfics, by their very definition, are you doing what you would like to see happen to the characters and world. In the process, I think that actually opens the door and ALLOWS you to see the problems, because you start trying to fill in the gaps, so to speak, with self-satisfying concepts. There's nothing wrong with that, and as I hoped I made clear, there's still a lot of stuff I like in these movies...but I just don't see them as masterpieces. They are not terrible, but they are not genius, either.
I think that’s also part of why I loved and still love it. There was so much mystery! It felt like the lore would have been so interesting if they had explored it more, because the world is so silly and yet so dark. It’s fun!
For the record, JJ, I would like to say that I've read "Alice Underground", the fanfic you wrote in 2011 that adapts the original "Alice" books as a prequel to the 2010 film, and I count "Underground" as one of my favorite fanfics, because it does such a great job of blending Lewis Carroll's original story with the version of Wonderland and its inhabitants featured in the Burton/Disney version. The fact that you included much of Carroll's original dialogue and even a little of Disney's 1951 animated version is also good, and that you included the character of Humpty Dumpty (five years before his brief appearance in the 2016 "Through the Looking Glass") is just icing on the cake. You should be really proud of that fanfic.
That sounds super interesting. I have to give it a read now.
It’s so interesting how people loved it and then a few years later hated it. Perhaps it’s because the Internet told us to heat it. That’s what I think
I still love it.
@i .candy Tell me about it.
@i .candy So sick and tired of the Internet telling me how to thing. if I like something I like it, and I love Tim Burton’s Alice in wonderland! It’s beautiful.
To me it feels more like people hated it back then and love it now actually. I think it’s because we grew up with it and now that we’re all grown we’re reliving our childhood?
these movies are a real comfort to me, especially the first one. mostly because of nostalgia, due to watching it with my cousins as a child, but also particularly when the hatter freaks out and tells alice "i don't like it here, it's too crowded", referring to his own mind. i never related to that scene as much as i do as an adult and watching alice comfort him almost has the same effect on me. the themes of not fitting in as a woman or as a person who is mentally out of the norm or both (as is my case) resonate with me even more now.
as for the aesthetic, i actually love the dark, torn fantasy world look of the first one and personally prefer it over the vibrancy of the sequel. i also agree that helena and johnny's performances were stronger in the first movie. i always felt that tarrant's character in particular was missing the nuances he had in the first movie. the man instinctively inched closer to the jabberwocky with every hit he landed on alice and stabbed his tail, but he gets scared of the red queen in the sequel? besides that, i do like it and the goodbye scene is just as heartwrenching as the first movie's.
I'll admit, I LOVE Tim Burton, but there's even movies he directs that I don't like. They're well-made, yes, there's just other versions I like better. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Alice in Wonderland.
It’s weird how silly and weird Alice was shown to be in the real life sequences but how incredibly normal she is in Wonderland.
I must say, I've enjoyed this little review series of yours so far. I'm interested to see what you look at in the next one.
There is an Alice in Wonderland anime from 1983 known in Japan as "fushigi no kuni no alice" we're in episode 19 "The Mad Tea Party" Father Time makes appearance.
I am actually aware of the 1983 anime, but I - surprisingly - haven't seen The Mad Tea Party episode. Yet. I lost my copies of the episodes in a horrible drive crash. When I regather things and get a chance to see the series, I look forward to seeing Time there. Thank you for this information! :D
My history with these movies is more or less the same! I saw the first movie when I was just getting into the Alice books and ADORED it. Since then I've seen their flaws, but I enjoy them for what they are, and Tim Burton remains one of my favorite directors, if not my favorite. I also probably wrote some cringeworthy stuff based on the movie, including a failed attempt at an RPG set in Underland. I still think that world has a fascinating mythology and history worth exploring.
Because my world would be a wonderland ....
In Tim Burton's "Alice in Wonderland" and "Alice Through the Looking Glass", the world Alice returns to isn't even called Wonderland, it's called Underland
I actually enjoyed the sequel a lot better than the original. It has kind of a Back to the Future vibe to it (but I guess not really Alice, or at least, not Caroll's ideas)
Interesting. I kind of hate time travel sequels because they feel like a cop-out lol (like Endgame 🙄)
The problem I have with these films is that they do not feel like Alice in Wonderland. They feel like all the other fantasy epic films Hollywood keeps spitting out every couple of years.
If you decide to do another retrospective series, might I suggest looking at all the Peter Pan adaptations? I like to hear your thoughts on them.
I don't really mind that, personally. I kind of like Wonderland being interpreted as a fantasy epic type of world, as long as it's done well. It's been interpreted in all kinds of other ways, after all. It's all a matter of the execution.
WITH THAT SAID...how well these films are executed is...debatable. At best.
I have considered doing other films and stories, just in general, in the future. Peter Pan would be a GREAT one to cover, so maybe sometime I'll start looking at those. But I can't promise anything.
I think I liked it as a kid because at the time I hated the 1951 cartoon. I thought it was super boring, so I preferred the Tim Burton version because it had so much lore to offer as well as an aesthetic I just loved. That said, a few years later, I came to love the cartoon, and it’s now one of my comfort movies. I love both renditions of the book.
I still enjoy the movies…
I agree with everything you say about these movies!
Wow, you are MUCH younger than I! You said you were in your early teens in 2010. I was 35!
I watched this version
Good job! Interesting observations. I am going no a deep dive on all this. I believe the ALICE books have much truth to the human condition on this prison planet. I am working out how much of the essence of the message of the original books has been preserved in the Burton movies…. Coming back after a while so am rewatching a few times. Then will refresh on the books and report back. Clearly much of the coding and messages in the book are hard to translate to movies without losing most ppl. Which is why i guess they presented alternate visits to this parallel universe or the astral realm, or wherever wonderland is… i think it is the astral realm…. Anyway will report back 💫
would you ever do the 1988 alice made by Jan Švankmajer
I fully intend to. It won't be the next review I do - that one I already have everything prepared, aside from the voice track - but with so many people demanding it recently, it will probably be the one I do immediately after in November.
@@j.j.hatter8444 next to the mini-series it is the most accurate and closest to the source and might give all versions a run for their money in terms of weird and bizzare, I have it in dubbed british
I didn’t reconzine Helena as red queen
The thing is doesn't Make sense so look back on this and you shall find That Madnness will always be there in every Mind, i hope you understand my words despite the fact it maybe Absurd i am glad you understand my game because it shows Mentally Were All INSANE
These movies should have been a dream come true but Tim dropped the ball 🤦
I actually enjoyed Alice through the looking glass
For the second film they stole A LOT of ideas from the game Alice: madness returns.
I should very much like that you analyze two additional Alices - the 1982 PBS Great Performances Alice in Wonderland and the 1966 Jonathan Miller Alice in Wonderland. Both were produced for television. The 1982 has all star theatrical cast - liken to the 1933 Paramount film - that includes Richard Burton as the White Knight. The design is largely representational and based on the Tenniel illustrations. My personal favorite is the Miller! It has an amazing British cast, including some of Miller's Beyond The Fringe cast members. Ravi Shankar's sitar score gives it an other worldly mood. Miller's design doesn't draw on the illustrations, with the exception of Alice's costumes. His is a Victorian theme with actual locations for sets. It's my favorite because it's memory play, like the first book. I've read the Alices several times, primarily because a girl was the hero! Do take a look at them!
I am fully aware of both these versions. The Miller Version is actually next on my list, for November. It's one of two versions that's been highly requested (relatively speaking), and it's among my personal favorites, too. The Great Performances production is also on my list, though I cannot say how soon I will get to it. Time will tell.