I don’t think Shadow letting go of his past means he doesn’t care about Maria anymore, it would be more strange if he didn’t honestly. It just means he doesn’t let his past haunt him and cloud his judgement the way he used to, but he’s obviously still going to have emotions about it and he still loves Maria
This feels like a direct contradiction to the ending of Shadow '05, but even if we assume this was their intention, I still find Shadow's reaction to seeing Maria and Gerald a bit inconsistent. He flip-flops between acting emotional and acting reserved, and I can't really tell why. For a game that reunites him with these characters, it's odd just how little time they spend together.
@@telekinesticman The ending of Shadow's game wasn't that he'll stop thinking about his family just that he's done wondering who he is and what he should be.
@@telekinesticman trauma is a weird thing. It can flair up even if you think you’ve gotten past it. And while Shadow is clearly trying to hold it together, in other moments he simply can’t. It makes complete sense to me.
Hey Pariah! I just wanted to say I really love your videos and I would honestly maybe want to see videos in the future where you talk about how you would write some of the newer games ( Forces or maybe Frontiers ). You really helped me think more about Sonic in general and with my frustation with newer Boost Entries and I am highly thankful for your opinions, even though I might not always agree! I am not sure if you will but are you planning on making videos on the Movies someday since they are quite different than the Original Stuff?
In my opinion the thing about Shadow telling that hes never turning back again, but he gets so suprised when seeing Maria for the first time, is that he was in the end of Shadow 05 trying to run away from his past. Thats why he cries in the end of Shadow Gens, because he's been running away from grief his whole life, since Sonic Adventure 2
18:50 I think you might be selling the old boost games a bit short Preferences are preferences and I’m not trying to negate that but part of the appeal of the boost was exactly that for many people. Learning those exact button presses discovering secrets and that trial and error is what made getting that perfect run more satisfying I like both versions Reactive and Active a lot. I’m just trying to spread some appreciation
My girlfriend is into rhythm games, and Sonic X Shadow Gens was her first Sonic game. She actually found herself much more drawn to the boost formula over the classic games (even after sampling a bit of Mania) because the appeal of the boost formula is fundamentally the same as a rhythm game. It's about learning the correct sequences of button presses through trial and error (and in this case also finding shortcuts) to craft a "perfect run." The mid level cutscenes also aid this appeal, as often rhythm games incorporate short breaks during a song to let the player reorient themselves and take a breather.
@@dynamicyouthtube Calling Lost World a boost game is admitting you have never play it. But yeah, Forces wasn't bad because Boosting doesn't work, Forces was bad because they had no money to make levels by the time the engine was finished. In general the Nostalgia isn't the series trap in the past, is a budget issue of Sonic Team needing to cut cost. Honestly including Frontiers in the stuck in the past part feels wrong when only Cyber space is like that and it is by far the smallest part of the game.
I think its a little disingenuous to expect huge sweeping changes to the Sonic formula in whats supposed to be an extension to the original Generations thats meant to play similarly. Thats not to say they shouldn't try to rethink their game design in the future, just that this isnt really the place to do it.
I don’t think he’s logically asking for it to happen here, and it was probably a better decision to keep Shadow in-line with Sonic Generations in order to keep consistency between the two campaigns. His point is that these problems still harm the overall game experience.
Yeah I didn't expect them to fundamentally change everything, but the point stands that everything is still the same. The changes made are mostly additive, instead of foundational.
@@telekinesticman Sorry if I put words in your mouth, it's just that the start of the video seemed to me like you expected Shadow Gens to be indicative of Sonic Team's current approach to game design when it's really filling a different role. If anything Final Horizons is closer to that, as flawed as it is
Don't do Sonic's name dirty like that. The last several projects from the past two decades haven't been Sonic games. They're corporate products. Money-milking shovelware that couldn't give a rat's ass about the source material. Sonic ended in 2001, or 1998, take your pick.
@@Terminal_Apotos Take a hike? What are you talking about? The passionate creators of the property are the ones to establish the intended vision. That's the identity. That's what people remember. It's timeless because it's made by competent artists. That IS the real Sonic, and it's what people are gonna wanna see, no matter what the corporation wants to change it into. Don't treat me like a retard, that's uncalled for.
One of the greatest examples of how fundamentally Sonic Team does not understand the appeal of rolling as a tool to gain speed is that this is the 2nd Modern Sonic game in a row that features the Drop Dash... Without having an actual rolling system to go along with it. We enjoyed the Drop Dash because it was a tool that enhanced the EXISTING systems of rolling and Spin Dashing. Having the Drop Dash without a roll button is like if you gave Mario a Long Jump but not a normal Jump.
SS68, good to see you here. I think you're touching on something that TelekinesticMan is saying as well, but I personally don't think you're going far enough. What you're saying applies to basically every single element of the games for the past decade+. As you already know, my position is that boost is the literal worst thing that ever happened to Sonic, because it did as TeleMan said earlier in this video, replacing the "reactive" gameplay built on momentum with the "proactive" methodology that we have now. I criticised SonicXShadow the moment that I heard about it because I knew it was just going to do exactly what was mentioned here. Additionally they said they were done with the boost with Frontiers being the start of the next era... and then they *immediately* made a boost focused game in SonicXShadow. Personally I say they should just do exactly what TeleMan said... Start from scratch, no boost, no panels, no automation. Built a straight platforming gameplay engine and see where you go with it! Sadly I have zero hope for this. To me, SonicXShadow is just proof that they will never let go of "the Boost formula", Frontiers was a glimmer of something slightly different but it was, in my opinion, low quality in every single area from visuals to animations to combat system... Honestly even Frontiers does the same thing, automation in areas where they could have done so much more. Where Frontiers has "press button > perform the full move", Heroes had you performing different things in order to get in to the right attacks on enemies. You would start with Sonic and use the tornado then switch to Knuckles to do damage, or use Tails to knock enemies down then use Sonic to finish them off while also gaining height to start traversing straight out of combat, it was so much more fluid and well fitting for the characters. Alas, I can only say the same thing twice, I have no hope, they will NEVER let go of "the Boost formula". I have a different form of hope though, I'm a game dev, and I know plenty of modders and indie devs are on their way too, to making the things we always wanted from 3D Sonic, the future that never happened.
@@NimsoStudios Bro, I've been following you for years. I know exactly what you mean and I've played enough of your demos to know that you can and HAVE proven that a 3D momentum-based Sonic has a place in the industry. We can only watch and see how games like Rollin' Rascal perform to know how successful such a concept could go critically and financially. Perhaps then Iizuka will take notice.
Appreciate the use of the word "modular" with the mechanic descriptions here, gets pretty succinctly to the core of why skill and mastery in even the best 3D Sonic games can often boil down to rote memorization. There's definitely depth to what makes that satisfying, the difference between a Generations and a Forces proves that, but feeling the controls for themselves always feels like something is being compensated for.
Considering the massive positive reception of this game, I don't think now would be a good time to just completely throw everything out and start over when they JUST found out what works again. I'm more in favor of a gradual shift that leaves the boost formula in steps (starting with the most important changes), rather than Sonic Lost World 2 where everything is completely different and no one likes it Not that I think a new formula wouldn't be great, but rather I'm not certain that Sonic Team wouldn't fail and make Sonic a laughing stock again when it just became a more respected franchise in recent years
_"I'm more in favor of a gradual shift that leaves the boost formula in steps"_ This mentality doesn't make sense when the boost itself didn't come gradually. They made Unleashed the way it was directly after 06 failed and didn't hang on to any of the Adventure style gameplay. I'd rather them just move the boost back to a spin-off thing rather than mainline since it was openly stated over a decade ago they didn't know how to push the boost anywhere, which has been the case ever since Unleashed. All they've done is polish things or remove gimmicks or implement new gimmicks. Nothing that truly makes the boost itself evolve.
@@tyguy6290yes and no. The boost feature did already exist and was seeing implementation in 2D Sonic, while 3D Sonic was having similar, highly restricted versions, i.e. see the speed boost gem in 06 as just ONE example. Boost in 3D also seemed abrupt, because 06 failed so badly. Sonic is doing better than he has in ages, and an abrupt shift will not sit well with the large crowd. There is a VERY good reason the phrase “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” exists, and this is why. A step in the right direction is taking what went right in Frontiers and improving it, while removing what didn’t sit well with fans. Boost can’t just up and disappear, the vocal minority does not represent the consumer base at large. And never will. Doing it gradually as of right now will see much more consistent positive results.
@@hyperstargaming6150 I'm aware of the 2D Rush games and their implementation of the boost, but those are 2D games and not 3D, and even then the way you approach gameplay in both Rush and Unleashed are different despite having the same mechanic. I do not believe that Unleashed was a great interpretation of boost as it feels restricted. _"while 3D Sonic was having similar, highly restricted versions, i.e. see the speed boost gem in 06 as just ONE example."_ That singular example in 06 isn't even a great example because the functionality of the Blue Gem in 06 is no different from a dash ability. The Blue Gem (dash) is an optional ability and more supplementary compared to the Boost where the gameplay is centered around it. And even if you would consider the Mach Speed sections of 06, those sections are so minuscule in the grand scheme of not only Sonic's campaign, but the game as a whole since all four Mach Speed sections only amount to around 3-4 minutes of playtime. And as said before, they didn't hang on to much of the Adventure gameplay and gradually ease it out, they just gutted everything after 06 failed, not really something I'd consider a graceful _"gradual"_ shift. From my perspective, it didn't even make sense to shift away from the Adventure gameplay when it never got a chance to be truly refined, meanwhile, the boost has been here for 16 years now and hasn't gone anywhere meaningful. It's stale and stagnant. _"Sonic is doing better than he has in ages"_ Financially sure, but creatively not really, Sonic is still holding on to the same design principles that we've been seeing since SA1. And I frankly don't care about the franchise's financial success since that could still mean more boost later just because _"""""it worked"""""_ . I think it'd solve problems to just have boost spin-off titles running alongside non-boost oriented titles. _"...an abrupt shift will not sit well with the large crowd. There is a VERY good reason the phrase “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” exists."_ Problem is it was openly stated in an interview well over a decade ago that they don't know how to innovate on the boost, which tells me that the boost is broken. And that wouldn't be a strange conclusion to come to either considering we're still stuck with the same stagnant framework with no genuine improvement to it. If they actually took the boost somewhere meaningful I'd agree, but this has yet to be seen. I'm also not interested in what the _"large crowd"_ and/or fans think about the boost when many have also pointed out the shortcomings in it and the developers themselves have even noted that it's a bottleneck. Hell, there are many casuals and fans alike that believe the highly successful Sonic movies should be noted for how the characters are characterized and I still disagree regardless because the game Sonic characters and movie Sonic characters are fundamentally different. Argumentum ad populum (appeal to the people/majority) is a fallacy that I'm not interested in entertaining. _"A step in the right direction is taking what went right in Frontiers and improving it..."_ And I'm no longer interested in seeing a _"step in the right direction"_ . I want them to execute on a solid core idea instead of having to "gradually" do it, other developers are able to do this. How many more of these _"steps"_ do we need before we actually get somewhere? Because I've heard this phrase far too often by now.
@@tyguy6290Agreed. I feel like Sonic X Shadow Generations would be a great spot to leave behind the boost formula and nostalgia fumes the series has been running on for 13 years and take advantage of the new money flow and start fresh with momentum. Fans do not need to be desperate for how people view sonic to the point he is stuck in the boost formula. Sega and Sonic Team are in the position to move forward with the series and they need to take advantage of it.
Just wanted to comment here again thanking you for showing off Shady Knight in this video and your Shadow Gens stream. I recently picked it up and played a bit of it. It's sick af.
This is why i've been saying in sonic youtuber comment sections rails are pointless nowadays. Rails are the perfect object to describe the aonic series: "over simplification". Rails used to be more than just hold boost but now i just hate any rail stage because they've robbed every mechanic rails had since it's incarnation. Balance? Gone. Acceleration? Gone. Hell with this game we lost crouching too. No wonder they are barley even a footnote in this video. Either remove them or give them a sense of control again.
@bebopknux5857 The problem is when they did have control, they were incredibly janky and often led to many unfair deaths. Rail switching doesn't work half of the time, and I've also had several cases where I fell through the rail when just trying to land on it normally. Doing normal jumps to switch rails also doesn't really solve the issue since it halts your momentum, and the controls aren't always the most precise. To be fair, these problems were mostly in Heroes since that's the game that focuses most on switching, but it still had its moments in SA2. It was fun to occasionally get the right balance and zip down the rails, but I'm more than okay with leaving that behind if it means the simple act of switching rails doesn't feel like a gamble anymore.
@worlds-biggest-mbn-fanboy Like I said, manual jumps kill the momentum and still feels awkward. Most of the boost games in particular have very stiff jumps, and I'd hate to think about how jumping from rail to rail would feel with those controls.
SA2 had it right from the get go too, it just needed some smoothing to the input but the physics was 10/10 (talking 'bout physics not the rail switching)
39:26 Yes and No. People are complex there’s nothing wrong with wanting certain things from something you enjoy. Just like how plenty of people grew up with boost games and don’t really want the series to go to momentum.
Why should momentum be omitted from the boost formula? You want that, go play Forces and Frontiers. It's got plenty of that for you. It's plastic and boring without it. You can and SHOULD have both
@@stormcutter59 it would work If we had Sonic Team work on Boost games, and a whole new team working on 3D momentum games, that's actually the best compromise for both, cause we know this Sonic Team does not understand momentum at all. But a new team like the Mania Team now dubbed Evening Star who made Penny's Big Breakaway could work since not only do they understand it, but other teams of people could understand it better and make the kind of games we want
@derple8524 Except Sega does not like them and is stingy as all hell. They are a constant problem with the hiring of good people to work on Sonic. It would be right for them to do just what you said, making different KINDS of Sonic games much like Mario does, but they don't seem to understand that. Sega wants to keep the series very close to their chest and allow very little freedom for people to do with it. So they only give a very few the "privilege" to work on the games, and it's under close scrutiny it seems.
@@stormcutter59 dude, they have sega hard light that do have momentum physics and even they are doing the new Racing game, like yeah i'm not defending sega, but they do have some good relationships with their teams minus the main one that again... FORCES GOT 2 NEWBIES FOR LEVEL DESIGN, like i'm not going to defend the Game itself but the team was in really bad conditions
@joaquindiaz3621 Yes, and that's the fault of Sega themselves. They are HORRIBLE at treating their teams well and managing them. We all know this. So that's what I'm talking about.
14:51 One of my favorite moments from Sonic. Having to constantly thwart Eggman’s plans doesn’t restrict him, it’s something he enjoys. So when Eggman isn’t around, he’s not a concern to Sonic. Sonic is constantly moving, ready for the next adventure.
Very disappointing that you just glossed over the game's excellent 2D level design. This is easily the best 2D level design in Sonic for a really long time. Saying you haven't played as much as the 3D and then not even mentioning the 2D levels isn't good enough. I think you are very guilty here of the kind of taste fanboyism you accuse people of doing in your videos (for example on Unleashed). You clearly prefer the 3D gameplay so straight up ignore 40% of the game because it doesn't strictly match your taste. Extremely poor in a critique.
@@majestic3992 This video is long enough as it is. I wanted to focus on the parts of the game that I found the most interesting and appealing to me. This is the process I take with every video. Sure, I could have spoken more about the 2D stages. I could have also talked more about White Space, Gerald's journal, the bosses, and so on, but I didn't want to. I didn't have anything interesting to say, so I chose not to waste my own time, and everyone else's.
Nah they're not very good stages, at least in Generations there was some attempt to blend 2D and 3D together. The 2D only stages feel more static and boring by comparison
They were all pretty good but I think Kingdom Valley Act 2, Sunset Heights Act 2, and Chaos Island Act 2 were really great with a nice blend of that QTE gameplay and added emphasis on Platforming.
@@telekinesticman I just don't think this a good enough answer honestly. There's plenty to say about the 2D game design. It's your choice what you want to focus upon in each video, but if you want to be make a serious critique of the game I really don't think you can just ignore 40% of it.
Always appreciate a new Sonic analysis from you; even when I'm not entirely in agreement with you, your work always gives me a lot of insight on differing perspectives, and opens my mind to things I've never really considered! Honestly, all the talk of SRB2 in some of your recent stuff really makes me want to finally get around to playing it. Only a few things I wanna yap about, off the top of my head. Spear Gliding might have been discovered during development and just kept in the full game for the sake of speedrunning. Kishimoto said that was true of the homing boost tech in Sonic Frontiers, and later updates of the game even acknowledged it by using an asterisk to denote a Cyber Space stage cleared using it, as well as with the spin dash. Makes me think that separating Chaos Control runs into their own category could've worked just fine, in that sense. Haven't had the chance to use spear glides myself, as the console version doesn't allow full button remapping and I can't pretzel my fingers around the face buttons, but I absolutely hope something like it carries over to future games. You mentioning Shady Knight, as well as the inconsistency of the boost resetting in regards to grind rails and jumping off ziplines in Chaos Island VS in Tokyo, really reminded me how much I appreciate consistency and uniformity within game mechanics. Things like being able to jump cancel off anything with a hitbox, or parry anything with a hurtbox in an action game, for just one example. It's a small thing, but having everything in the player's arsenal staying consistent should be prioritized, especially in a game series like Sonic, where perfect play comes from the mastery of the mechanics and knowledge of the level design. Especially when Shadow Generations exists alongside Sonic Generations, which doesn't have those restrictions. Spear gliding to skip things like specific springs and boosters, and the automation that comes with them, is really cool, but doing them with less restrictions on the air boost afterwards would be amazing. Hoping the next game trims down on the unskippable cutscenes, too, since they absolutely play a part in the inherent replayability of a level. The Black Doom transition scenes are a really cool way to flex that Sonic finally has a budget again, but The Ark, and especially Tokyo with its near minute and thirty seconds worth, gets a bit overbearing. There's probably no real way to eloquently get around them without just reducing the time they take, since a skip button would throw the player's time off in a similar way to Chaos Control; just skipping past the cutscene wholesale with the clock adding on the additional seconds thereafter is the only way I can see it working. Also, the timer at 21:46 transitioning perfectly over from Shadow Gens to 06 was really slick, and I just hope you know I appreciated it.
Pretty good video. But, I always thought that spectacle was a really important part of Sonic games' design. However I do wished it were more skill based.
Spectacle is nice but if it can be achieved via gameplay it should be done (Like a QTE of Shadow weaving through explosive mid air enemies versus manually doing that in 1 go)
In defence of automation in 3D sonic games Those games keep you so much on your toes for the best skips, shortcuts, etc.. more than the momentum based ones that the rest time that those sequences give you quite become welcome so you catch your breath for a few seconds and then instantly gets back into the action for in some games the best time and for others the best final score
Fair argument, but I don't think it works for the open White Space where it's more annoying. I would jump on a rail near Space Colony Ark one way and the camera would move the other way keeping me from from seeing what's in front of me. we need way less camera restrictions, heck just give us full camera control and we be good to go
I’m fine if the the automation is like barley in the game like sonic frontiers FH Or some 10 seconds awesome cutscene like the volcano explosion in shadow gens What I don’t want to many automation stacking up the next to each other
Man, even when you're not enjoying yourself with Sonic, your writing and voice always making it so charming to watch. It comes to you channel in general, Jurassic Park video of yours was very addicting to re-watch for example.
@@MintyBoi8 thank you, glad to hear it. For what it's worth, I think Shadow Gens is pretty good overall, I just have a ton of things I wish were improved
I think the entire "Shadow Abilitys don't exist in a vacum" section falls flat. You complained Shadow Abilitys are keys to doors put there by the developers and you use SRB2 as a better example. When the truth is that those abilities only work well because they are effectively slightly modified versions of already existing skills. Vector is a Rhythm base Kuckles, Ray glide has very similar applications to Tails, and Shadow is a more controllable version of Sonics air attack. These abilities work because they intencionaly were limited to fit into the already existing doors. A similar thing happens with your other 2 examples, where an ability like quicking the floor to propulse yourself from was very clearly accounted for. None of these are truly free, the difference is that one tells the player while the other doesn't . Modern Sonic games are arcade experiences that want the player to hunt the highest score possible and as such are very forward about how to progress through the stages. This is the same reason Chaos control freezes the timer and it recharges off enemies and these recharge has a small delay so it can allow you to chain chaos control. Sonic games are Score attacks above all else, this is why Time Attack is actually a side mission in the original Generations. Although I will say the complaint of a true timer not being available by default is very fair and it should have been added alongside the score timer. I also find your complaint of springs and other elements slowing you down rather flawed when in a lot of your examples the only reason you are being faster by skipping them is because of Spear Gliding. A very clearly unintentional exploit that lets you fly over levels without the limitations and lack of verticality of the Doom Wings. Dare I say, Spear gliding itself would likely not work if the game didn't have the Doom Wings in it and the designers hadn't accounted with the player being able to cross big air gaps with them. Trying to TLTR, using the key into doors analogy to criticise this game gave me the impression you just fail to see this universal pattern of game design in other games rather than convincing me Shadow Generations design is too limited and not following the steps of the classic games. When even those classic games and just about every videogame use this exact same philosophy.
Genuinely don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Sure, the powers of those other characters are similar somewhat to the base characters...but doesn't that just show how much better those base game abilities are, too? Flying, gliding, climbing, air dashing etc. are all more versatile and useful than Shadow's highly context-sensitive Doom Powers.
@telekinesticman Those abilities are only usefull because the stages are designed to accommodate them. I'm criticism your complaint about keys into doors, because Sonic Robo Blast 2 does the exact same for it's core abilities and the modders understood they couldn't deviate too far from those core ideas when making new characters because otherwise they wouldn't work with the level design. Keys into doors isn't something Shadow Gens does, it's something every videogame does because that's at it's core just how designing a level for a specific moveset works. Also somewhat unrelated but something funny I noticed about the abilitys you listed: Flying/Gliding: Doom Wings Climbing: Doom Morph Air Dashing: Air Boost
I think you've summed up what I've only merely heard was a criticism: That Shadow should not feel for his past the way he does here. The simple thing that perspective misses is that there is no specific way a character SHOULD act like. You do not overcome trauma, you learn to live with it. Even if Shadow addressed before that he wouldn't allow his past to mess with him, what's to say his mind cannot be changed?
@@jaylenpage3137this is something I’m seeing people constantly miss. Shadow’s vision in Dark Beginnings was NOT optional, he was suddenly and forcefully shown those painful memories strung in high energy, stressful events. He’s being shown his painful past all over again, and the elements that make it so painful: the good and the bad. Shadow stressing over thinking about Maria is because of something he basically no longer had control over. This takes place the same time as Generations so by all means, it’s not unrealistic to think that Shadow is going about his life with a flimsy bandaid for his trauma. It’s just that I’ve noticed people conveniently forgetting, or intentionally leaving out canon material. Does it suck that it’s external to the game? Of course. It’s still canon, it still needs to be taken into account and addressed. It answers a lot of unnecessary questions.
I'm sure this is a fine video, but I'm admittedly turned off by the lack of nuance regarding Shadow's attachment to the past. In what universe, is it realistic to be 100% unflinching and unbothered by trauma, past emotional connection, etc? Yes, Shadow moved on, but moving on doesn't mean he cannot secretly wish that things turned out different, especially if the point of the game is that he's being thrown right back into his past. Not only would it be callous for Shadow to not act the way he does in the game, it would be boring otherwise. I'm not sure where everyone is getting the notion that Shadow's reaction to the past is a contradiction.
giving you my own personal reply about this, feel free to not read if you don't want to, it as i wrote quite a lot here. in any case, know that i respect your views on shadow's character, and that i'm just throwing my ideas out here. to me, the sonic cast is composed of characters who are mostly meant to represent ideas and concepts, not actual people with very complex feelings. shadow may be an exception, but this part of his character was already explored in his own game, where we see what could have happened to shadow in certain circunstances through the different routes in the game. yet none of that is canon, since the game wants to tell you that shadow is none of that. he's not a hero like sonic said he is, he's not a weapon of destruction like gerald or black doom said he is. he's not a failed experiment that caused a tragedy like the g.u.n. commander said. he's his own being and he decides his own fate. that's what shadow's character represents. his decision in the canon ending was to put an end to his past, including gerald and maria, as shown by the final cutscene of his solo game. games like 06 and forces followed on that, as shadow is now a different character. i think the way shadow generations treats shadow's character is less of a contradiction, and more of a mistake that sonic team thinks they can brush it off. in the game, rouge confirms shadow 05's influence on shadow's character, saying that he left his past behind. yet in practice, it's quite the opposite. the game tries to go both ways, and it not only fails at that, but takes current shadow's own agency away from him, as he now fights to fulfill his promise to maria once again just like in sa2, where the whole point is that he wasn't his own character, being controlled by gerald and only doing what he thought maria wanted him to do. shadow generations implies that everything shadow will do from now on, will be with maria in mind, not his own self. his development is now gone despite what is said in the game, so it's a mistake in my opinion.
@@asukabruxinha1301 I like this! And I agree to an extent, but I feel like maria's wish and his own autonomy isn't mutually exclusive. As it's said in Shadow Gens, he was made with a soul similar to hers. To me, this felt like as if her will and his are intertwined regardless. Her goodness lives and breathes through him, a bioweapon. It's contrast. It's genius. Because him choosing her ideals means he's not choosing Black Doom or even Gerald's. The ending cutscene I'd argue nullifies the idea that Shadow regressed because while he ALMOST gave in to his emotion and told Maria about the tragedy, she hushed him up, told him it doesn't matter, gave him affirmations and encouraged him to keep moving forward because the friends he has in the present day needs him.
@@odd-eyesvon their ideals are intertwined as you said, but i think that's precisely why shadow does need to be his own self; he's naturally pure, a pure soul. by having control over his own actions, shadow is always doing what he sees as right. fighting for a better world, even if said world fears him, and his powers. even if said world maybe doesn't deserve to be saved, because of what humanity did to maria. he doesn't need maria, as her will really is the same as shadow's. i'd personally argue that to have shadow being reminded of his past, and to have him carrying maria's wish in his heart once again, just diminishes the impact maria had on shadow. as if he's not what maria wanted him to be, a source of good to humanity. he left her alongside his past, but he naturally carries her will by being who he wants to be.
@@asukabruxinha1301 Shadow resolved to protect the world regardless of his stance on mankind since he values Maria's opinions. He doesn't care about being there to aid mankind alone, but rather the world (which yeah includes mankind).
@@galten7361 that's sa2 shadow at the end of the game, as this doesn't apply to the current iteration of the character unless you count shadow generations. i personally don't count it, he's free to choose whether he will help mankind when in need, or not. this has almost nothing to do with maria, shadow just has a pure soul.
Sonic team got their bearings back, now they need to show they can go beyond their past and tread confidently into the future... Huh... so that's why Silver's getting more popular nowadays...
You continue to be one of my favorite reviewers in relation to Sonic. Even when i disagree with you (sometimes heavily haha), you're super insightful and explain yourself well. Seriously your point on the balloon homing attack point in your 3D sonic video was genuinely mind blowing and I will hope to implement it in projects I make in rhe future (I'm in Game Dev haha). Keep up on the good work and congratulations on getting a job! (I've a question I'd like to ask you but ill wait until the video is finished)
4:05 I mean imo considering this shadow still believes this to just be his life It makes sense since he doesn’t actually remember why he wanted to throw his past away He just sees his best friend
I don't think I've poured so many hours into a sonic game within a month of getting it since sonic mania, and I really hope they keep making games of consistently good quality at the very least. However I do agree with you that we need a new formula for 3d sonic. I personally don't want an exact recreation of the classic games in 3d, but I do want a higher emphasis on skill based mastery over levels to speed through them quickly. Perhaps they could combine elements from multiple formulas to create something we've never seen before.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x the open zone is really just a boost game but with superfluous open world stuff to do. It doesn't really excite me. The open zone in shadow gens was a lot better, but still, not really a "new" formula.
Excellent editorial here as always. (Sorry to hear you fell out of the comics a bit, but that's the thing about multimedia--we have the freedom of choice to continue on or not) Cheers
Thank you! In regards to the comics, I'm not completely out, I just haven't caught up in a while. After the Metal Virus, the lack of meaningful storytelling really became apparent to me. I found all the Surge stuff very tiring after a while, it was like 3 issues in a row of her fighting people without much happening. I'd still like to check out the classic stuff (like the Fang and Knuckles series) just out of curiosity, and I've heard the recent Riders stuff has been a huge improvement compared to some previous arcs. I know Daniel Barnes is returning to the book soon, and I LOVED Scrapnik Island, so I'd love to see how he follows that up. I'm not sure how much I'd enjoy the books on a revisit now that my idea of these characters' personalities is so much more refined, but I'm still willing to give them a shot. I've been reading Sonic comics for over ten years, it would feel weird to stop completely.
@@telekinesticman Please don't feel forced to take on something that may not (or may) be worthwhile after putting in the time Me personally, I think I realized that I matured as a person when I finally allowed myself to let things go and let things be, whatever they were Nothing horrific will happen to a game, or a series (many things really) if I am not there to witness it in the moment And maybe, if time permits, I can return to something and appreciate it a bit better Love and respect friend
I love this game, and it’s probably my favourite 3d sonic game ever, but it’s very undeniable that the boost formula shouldn’t have been the thing that defined sonic in 3d. The fact that there is as many, if not more, boost sonic games then physics based sonic games is pretty weird, especially since the latter is how this series even started in the first place. I love unleashed, but sometimes I think about what would have been if they just evolved the gameplay that they were already working with instead of just throwing it all away for a formula that’s inherently linear and railroaded. I don’t hate the boost formula, and I don’t even think it needs to be completely abandoned as they can work as spin off games or something, but we need a new formula that’s closer to the originals.
@@telekinesticmanoh certainly. A ton of people will think up compromise after compromise in order to “fix” the boost, but I genuinely believe that boost games we have like unleashed, shadow gens, and sonic gens to an extent, are the peak of the formula. The boost by its nature is railroaded, linear and restrictive. The whole point of it is to basically press a button to watch sonic go down a hallway at Mach 2. It’s shallow, but it also looks cool, which makes sense because one of the reasons why the boost was even made in the first place was to evolve the more cinematic aspect sonic team has always strived for in these games. Basically, the boost is its own spectacle. Why should the boost be slowed like it is in dream team, thus losing all of its appeal, just to facilitate a more functional gameplay style for a platformer when we can just forgo the boost entirely and make an actual physics based sonic game again? It just doesn’t make any sense to me. It won’t satisfy the people who want an adventure/classic styled sonic game again, and it won’t satisfy the people who like the boost gameplay either.
"Nothing's been changed since sonic generations" is a line I will agree on, but that statement in itself makes this game's value obvious. The franchise needed a newer "go-to" modern sonic game for the longest time ever... a game that would be accepted by every kind of sonic fan & newcomers. For 2D we had sonic mania, but 3D had sonic gens... a game that's a few years older than mania. (which a lot of people seemingly didn't even know much of. Saw some youtubers saying they've played it for the first time alongside shadow gens.) Re-introducing this franchise's 'style' to the world is very important. Sonic Frontiers did the same thing in a very narrow sense; it re-contextualized the characters. For most of them you can gather these three points: "They were like this", "They're like this now" and "They want to change things this way". And then came shadow gens... with the same thing executed with Shadow. (In frontiers, only Amy was done dirty, but exclusively in the english dub. Her dialouge in the japanese dub was easily superior.) Re-establishing the gameplay and re-contextualizing the characters can be important in this sense: for whatever they may do in the future, we now will know where it would have to be derived from. For the longest time, I wanted proof. A proof that a sonic game could be "great" again. More than perfecting the formula in ways that would differ from person to person, I desperately desired that they could go back to "doing great" in any way at all. That's what Shadow Gens is to me. Before 'perfecting' any formulas for sonic, I want stability more than ever. Enough with the glitchy releases, unpolished games, non-existent stories (looking at you sonic mania, my beloved), etc. P.S. If I were to be a selfish boy regards to this franchise, getting a sonic riders remake & a mania-inspired reboot of sonic advanced would be my dream. That alone goes to show how much difference the fans can have when it comes to what's desired for the future i guess, lol.
While I see much of what you've said as ringing true, I have a particular qualm with one of your hopes for the series. 18:39 "Once you know the correct sequence of buttons to press and when to press them, there's no longer any room for improvement. But if you're able to break free of these limitations or play stages that are designed in less binary ways, suddenly the skill ceiling raises exponentionally" I think this and your general desire to see less restrictive gameplay that keeps flow static is a justified one to have, but it's shortsighted with how it fails to see the value in a playstyle that capitalizes on a more strict ideology. An expressive and high skill ceiling can still exist if the room for optimizing the inputs of actions has numerous supplemental systems to consider when executing them. As with a sentiment I deeply share with Matthew Matosis, I also heavily encourage experimentation when applicable, I will never say no to trying something new for a game concept, and the same goes for established franchises as long as a title, like the Sonic boost games, retain the same established appeal. Your statement about Helldivers 2 being the next Sonic game applies well here, just tossing out what makes Sonic, Sonic, is not what I want either. The game mentioned very in passing here, that being Sonic Unwiished, is what I see as the heavily lost potential of the now stagnant level philosophy. I think it works well, and honestly the best out of ANY boost title while it capitalizes upon a strict nature all the railroading these boost games have, but how it keeps players on designated routes still had room to push the mechanics in numerous ways while providing a variety of systems to consider when playing. Actual resource management, quicker executions of sequential moves, way more punishment for bad meter usage, etc. - Action chains promoted quickly linking moves like light speed dashes, jumping off of springs, grinding on rails, going through boost rings and a few others after hitting an enemy for more meter. - Rings had a worthwhile purpose with ring level ups expanding the boost bar at certain thresholds, and the bar itself also losing charge whenever sonic lost enough rings or a life, so they weren't just gas for the tank, unlike every other boost game. - Boost was spent in segments and more committal than any other boost title, alongside boosting being cancelled if sonic grinded against a wall, or resulting in different wall splats as a punishment for mindless usage. For as solid and even being the top 5 Sonic game Generations is, it had NONE of these engaging systems. All it did bring from Unwiished was the starting boost and drift bonus, which were made worthless. The drift bonus in Gens never gave more than the initial start press of a boost, and the starting boost barely mattered since Generation's boost sonic always started with a full bar for stages anyways. This is compounded by the fact that the interaction and engagement in Generations fell pretty short of it's ideal mark. Drifting, walljumps, stomps, slides and tricks are either exceedingly uncommon for stage traversal, or the QTE's that just result in people slowly circling the control stick for the ideal amount of boost off of rainbow rings and ramps. All in all, solid work, It's good to see a game critic on RUclips still put out stuff occasionally, many of the bigger heads like Joseph, Matthew, RZ, Jebtube and a few others have essentially fully retired at this point, so I've found the pool of good, solid game analysis to only become a more parched place.
I don't know how you do it man. Your points, the way you structure them, the writing... you hit the nail on the head EVERY. SINGLE. VIDEO. This was a great review, definitely the best I have seen so far on this game.
11:33 Archie and SATAM have done irreparable damage to the way sonics personality is perceived. The movies while i like them are basically just taking from that sadly hell they even used the robotnik theme from aosth
It's not exactly surprising that an American Sonic film draws from its roots (and generally what's popular at the time) and while I understand the irritation, it doesn't really bother me because I've always liked that version of Sonic more.
I don’t blame Archie & Satam on that. I blame The US Localazation of Sonic done by Sega of America. The people behind The Cartoons & Comics were not involved with Localazazing Sonic to The West and didn’t even know that actually happend. They just thought that their reference material was Sonic. But yeah, I defiently agree that it’s VERY AWFUL that SO many people don’t actually know The personality of The main character. So bad in fact that when Sonic is actually in character, they Claim he’s out of character or that it’s bad writing. And when people that do know of What Sonic’s character is like and say that he’s not a jokester and doesn’t see himself as a hero, some people Think you’re INSANE and have No idea What you’re talking about. And that is just… SO messed up, man. While I am a Archie fan and do Think you need to Judge something for What it is… Man, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WISH that Sonic Will feel like Sonic-NO, I WISH The REAL Sonic Will come back, since he’s been missing since 14-15 years. I don’t want him to feel like Sonic. I WANT Sonic to come back. And again, it’s just so messed up. Why do I need to Think about consistent characterazation in SONIC of all things? Like, Why? Why??? Lol.
@@Stew91 Sonic the 90s cartoons is much more snarky and obnoxious then JP Sonic. Hes very much an embodiment of 90s "punk cool" culture but thats not really what JP Sonic was. SATAM Sonic was like this but it wasn't nearly as bad as the other shows. Movie sonic borrows more from this version then the game version of sonic
@@themissingbits6375 Not like we've ever had a good frame of reference for the source material. The fact that you have to really dig to find this stuff is a bad sign already. They didn't even TRY to make sure it was well-known. So the localization team just made shit up because they assumed there wasn't ANY story, and it was just a plotless baby game.
You are and aren’t stuck in the past. You aren’t because that’s truly sonic’s roots, but you are because there are people who just prefer this style of gameplay. The problem with, not just in the case of sonic gameplay, but with sonic in general is that there is truly no “what sonic supposed to be.” Boost formula or momentum, Sally or Amy, accuracy to the games or humans, all of these are contradictory, and yet all exist at the same time. I really don’t know why I made a comment here, but I hope that this video reaches SEGA one way or another. Just letting you know that your opinion is valid and I hope one day we get that perfect sonic game, but also there is no “true sonic,” there is just like or dislike.
You can't have a "perfect" version of anything if everything is a matter of "like and dislike" In that case, nothing should be considered good or bad. Not all opinions are valid at all.
TL;DR - Agree to disagree I suppose. Very well structured critique, just not a huge fan of your approach overall. No hard feelings. Hope you see this :) I've had a lot of time to think since The Stagnation of 3D Sonic Gameplay, kinda glad you brought up the same points here. I'm happy you were able to enjoy a new Sonic Team game at the very least. Shadow Generations is definitely one of my new favorite 3D Sonic games. It really does feel like a proper evolution of Boost-style gameplay, what Forces should've been, you can say. Certain parts of the Core Gameplay section I find myself agreeing with you on, like the difference between Shadow Gens approach to level design and the approach Unleashed and Sonic Gens used. Honestly, it's a mix of both proactive AND reactive play, and I think that's what makes it so engaging. Hard disagree with you on the fact that Chaos Control stopping the timer is a bad thing, but your idea for a 30 Second Trial does sound insanely fun. I understand that you despise automation in any form, but I would've liked to see you offer a workaround. For me, finding ways to circumvent the automation can be its own fun, even you showcase this through your footage. Also, you say that spear-gliding (or even the quick dash, which you didn't even mention) is an unintended mechanic. If that's so, what was stopping them from having it stop your horizontal momentum arbitrarily? I do agree that they should've brought back the jump physics from Sonic Gens at the very least. That being said, I wouldn't say I enjoy your videos. They're presented in an objective, authoritative manner, in spite of being from your own perspective, and that doesn't sit right with me. They do leave a little room for open dialogue about the subject, but for the most part, it's people who already agree with you. I still don't agree with your perspective on 3D Sonic wholeheartedly, even if I end up agreeing with you on very minor things. Heck, in certain cases I realize something myself based on your observations. What turns me off is how his preferences and alternatives are presented as inherently ideal. For Boost-style games specifically, It's clear that proactive play is your preference, and that's fine. However, reactive Boost gameplay can be fun and rewarding in it's own right. Comments by @RaiginAnimator and @brycebitetti1402 made here both brought up the point that "learning the correct sequences of button presses through trial and error (and in this case also finding shortcuts) to craft a "perfect run"" is the whole appeal, which is a perspective I understand and agree with more (showing my biases here haha). A reply to that said a friend of theirs compared the appeal of the Boost to a rhythm game and I find that perspective intriguing because I can see where that perspective can come from as well. Even J's Reviews, IIRC, also recognized this point up in his 3D Sonic Level Ranking video. There's certainly more depth to the Boost than Temple Run (no hate to your friend, of course, it is kinda strange you used his words as ammo for your points said here). Even still, the *type* of 3D Sonic game you want to see officially isn't even something I'm opposed to. If The Final Horizon in Frontiers is anything to go by, it might very well be possible, but that's me being optimistic. I can see the validity of a "proper" 3D Sonic game that plays like SRB2 or Sonic Utopia, but there's also validity in Boost gameplay as well. I can respect your work as a professional artist and as a non-professional game critic, but I'm just not a fan personally. At the very least, you helped me to sharpen my critical thinking skills. Maybe you'll write me off as another hater, and I'll be OK with that. I just wanted to be respectful about it instead of being an asshole, going "This SUCKS and YOU SUCK and **YOU SHOULD DIE!**" I might even check out some of the recommended games you put in the description eventually.
@@SpinyPuffs honestly, this whole comment sums up my feelings for this and a lot more of his Sonic critiques entirely. Don’t get me wrong, I’m subscribed to the guy and I thoroughly enjoyed his “Stop Making Jurassic Park Movies”, and I do agree with some of his critiques, but I always find myself disagreeing more often than not. Like how you agreed with previous comments you mentioned here. I feel like he’s just slightly pompous when bringing up or comparing games with the one (or more) he is talking about in the current video. Bringing up his friend (no hate to him, he’s entitled to his opinion) to vindicate his point is truthfully an example of extrapolation simply by close association. He has good points on some of the design aspects of Shadow gens, but I also saw some other good points about shadow gens made by other gamer/sonic tubers that count points his critiques. Flexing his game design contribution, while cool and sleek, doesn’t really hold up to me considering that lighting in games is only aesthetic to games and, imo, not entirely crucial to gameplay unless it’s a mechanic or a gimmick in games. This mindset also seems like a AAA mentality, as I speak only on a AA scale, some games lighting can be completely inadequate but if the gameplay is fun than I’m fine with that. I’m not gonna defend the cynical greed of companies either but I’d rather he’d be in the interest in being sympathetic towards the people that actually make the games, i.e. Sonic Team, than more often than not lampoon (that might seem like a strong word but it’s the best I can come up with) them for weird albeit minor gameplay functionality. I say this because he must feel the pressure of being pressured to release a game on it’s scheduled time as well. This is by no means in bad faith, again, I agree with him on certain points and not so a lot more on others, at least only when it comes to sonic games. I feel as if he hasn’t really given the earlier 3D and boost games their full credit. Good video overall just agree to disagree. @TelekinesticMan if you if your reading this, I’m doing this out of love not hate, I never watched the JW films, don’t plan to, only watched TLW and JP3 (yeah not as good as the first but it’s like picking poison to a gun, the JW films being poison and I’d choose the gun any day) love your vids and keep up the good work and hustle. ;)
@@firemonkey6512 glad you got something out of my words. IMO, he writes and talks with a lot of conviction, especially with his choice of words and tone of voice, which is probably why he hasn't given those games credit where it's due. I think it's a little hard for someone not to go "oh wow, I've never thought of that before" and have your entire view on Sonic shattered and hereafter influenced by his observations, the same way he was likely influenced by shoogles (Sonic Spitball). What turns me off is how his preferences and alternatives are presented as inherently right (again probably tone of voice), as if it's what Sonic Team SHOULD strive for and continue to strive for. I can see the validity of a "proper" 3D Sonic game that plays like SRB2 (honestly I'd prefer one to come out just to see what he'd say about it), but at the same time there's validity to the Boost as well, but I don't think we'll see that proverbial olive branch extended anytime soon.
This isn’t directly related to the video itself, but I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your content. It has helped me view many Sonic games, which I’m very positive about, in a new light. Regardless of how different opinions can be or what the general expectations for Sonic games are, I’ve started noticing issues I hadn’t considered before watching your content. It’s fascinating to analyze different perspectives on the media I consume, even if I don’t always agree with everything. Seeing things from another angle opens a door to new ways of thinking. Thank you for that, your content has been some of my favorite over the past month.
There's no way the Switch needs 40 seconds to load the next part of the movie DLC level. Again, I don't despise the shorter cutscenes. The Sunset Heights one with the Death Egg robots is a good example. But anything over 10 seconds is really pushing it.
Gotta say, your content inspires me to think critically about a lot of media I enjoy. I tend to brush off and accept things very mindlessly, not giving a second thought to things like characterization or level design. I’m not a game designer sure, but I want to have an eye for this sort of thing.
@@teryliuhoo5989 I think if I were to do something like that, I'd have to go the extra mile and actually make a prototype in Unreal to show what I'm talking about. I use Unreal every day for my job, but for film/animation stuff, not games, so I don't actually know how to make a game 😞 Maybe one day
it’s really not my kind of Sonic game so I don’t think I’ll buy it until there’s a decent sale on it, but everytime I see footage I have to gush about how good the animation in the cutscenes are. went from the absolute bottom of the barrel for 2 decades to almost as good as the best in its class. if nothing else, I hope this is atleast something that sticks going forward. makes these games so much more interesting to look at. now if they could just translate this to the in-gameplay movements.
...if it helps, I didn't buy this either. I used Steam Family Share again, because I wasn't sure if I'd like the game. I almost bought it afterwards, but I still don't quite feel it's worth the price. If it was cheaper and just had the new Shadow stuff, I would have gotten it. I don't need a "remaster" of a game I already own on the same platform.
something i think that should be brought up is why the games are designed the way they are, because there is a reason. the direction you want the series to go introduces a skill floor, something that sega has been trying HARD to avoid after the adventure games. you can see many people who aren't sonic fans try to play SA2 and constantly fail at it (thinking of Deebeegeek's SA2 clips), which is why the games have been slowly getting more and more automated. adventure games may be beloved by fans but theres a reason why general audiences don't favor them nowdays, and making the game more momentum based would be reintroducing this and arguably making it worse. the reason games like spark or rascal can do it is because they have a VERY niche audience who are naturally pulled towards the game because they are looking for a game that plays like this, while sonic games try to appeal for a general audience. im not saying i dont want a sonic game thats momentum based, just that a compromise needs to be found that makes the game accessible the way the current design does
Given it has its own segment in the video, there was a huge missed opportunity to include the ‘Sonic X’ part in ‘Sonic X Shadow Generations’ in the video title or somethin’. I mean, the title wouldn’t even be misleading either if it was like that!! Good vid tho
I considered it, but I didn't want to confuse people. I don't talk about the Sonic Gens side of the game much at all, so if I called the video "Sonic X Shadow Generations" (or even "Sonic X, Shadow Generations") it might be weird for me to not actually talk about Sonic Gens.
Thank you for actually criticizing the flaws of this game. no one ever talks about the chaos control issue with time attack in depth, except for pariah.
As a huge Sonic Robo Blast 2 enjoyer, I still found a lot to like about Shadow Generations despite some of the more automated levels, but I have to agree with many of your takes on the game's continued use of Modern Sonicsms. Unsurprisingly the best levels in my opinion are Kingdom Valley and Chaos Island because neither contain the incredibly linear and automated Black Doom set pieces. I will say I think you undersell the fun behind the Doom Powers a little, especially the Doom Wings which are meant to be an endgame equivalent to Super Sonic, making the levels intentionally easy to skip by flying through them while also being immune to damage.
Sonic movie 3 (ik prolly most of you are not into it, but I am one of them) This of your critique on Shadow Gens And then Pariah's theoretical Sonic Riders story Man I am EATING this week
I find it hilarious, that so many sonic fans claim that every 3d Mario game is the same, and yet pretend that 3d sonic titles have been "stepping in the right direction" bro, homing attack is the worst its ever been. Grinding hasn't been engaging since sa2, be real. Instead of building off of the drift mechanic, it got worse in frontiers and forces. And we're still getting the most enjoyment out of 3d sonic, by not interacting with most of the level design😂nothing beyond the surface has truly changed. Every 3d Mario game is unique from one other. You're not playing odyssey Mario the same way in galaxy or sunshine. It's impossible. I wonder which franchise is actually stagnating?🤔 Some Sonic fans need to stop glazing sonic games for like two seconds, and think logically for once. 3d sonic has been this way, ever since the precious adventure titles came out man. The stagnation just didn't happen yet, because they were so fresh at the time. Nobody can tell me otherwise. The majority of hard-core sonic fans enjoy the adventure titles the most, by skipping loops, springs, etc. why? because they slow their gameplay down. You don't need to be a professional speed runner, to do those things, at a basic level. Shadow gens ain't different. Same goes for sonics other 3d outings. I would know😅 If anyone somehow thinks that literally every single 3d Mario game is the exact same thing, and is stagnating like 3d sonic? then they ain't played a single 3d Mario game. Period.
So JP Sonic X is now your reference for "the true spirit of Sonic", huh? Sure… IF you're only taking about Sonic himself. The '90s games, in Japanese OR English (not the English manuals-you are indeed right on that front; even if English is the canon primary in-world language, the Japanese writing is closest to the intended meaning), actually let Sonic's allies share in that spirit, and Adventure 1 was strongly suggesting them eventually coming into their own as "fast friends to everyone". Sonic isn't just inspiring everyone to keep their hope alive, but to see who among them can literally as well as figuratively follow his lead… with Tails especially having the potential to surpass it. The JP 16-bit Sonic 2 manual story and Tails profile very strongly imply that Tails could indeed become the head one day. He already had the potential and the determination; he just needed experience and the safety net that his partnership with Sonic could provide considering that his own heroic talent would be badly needed while he was still a young kid. That's why Adventure 2 literally doubling down on what made Adventure 1 _different from_ the 2D Sonics apart from the standard adaptations to 3D was the wrong move, both in story and gameplay. Adventure 1 could deviate the ways it did because the story it told that way made sense to the series's past then. Adventure 2's story did NOT. But it wasn't meant to, either; Shiro Maekawa himself had admitted he didn't like how Sonic used to be prior to Adventure 1, which explains why Adventure 2's story only really aligns with selected bits of past Sonic and even outright contradicts others. But that's obviously no excuse to just go off and betray a (largely) beloved past like that for new, diminished versions of old characters to get used to. What's really needed for Sonic is to evolve and build on the old, bringing it up to date, instead of treating it like a mere failsafe against the Rad And New™ flopping. Just because something is an anchor doesn't mean it's only good to keep something trapped, and refusal to return to something is also a trap. As for Shadow Generations itself, I admit not having played it yet as I want to specifically get a used copy for the Switch-I'm skeptical about whether Sega's really returning Sonic to form or not; more on that later-but from all I know it seems like basically a one-character Boost version of Heroes in terms of gameplay. It REALLY sounds like you're not a fan of forced midstage combat in Sonic, but we're dealing with SUPERHEROES here. If Sonic and company don't literally fight, what's their point? Plus optimizing fights is its own form of speed, as is optimizing transitioning in and out of them. Obviously, 3D plays better into this as it allows for a more free-moving jump-'n'-beat-'em-up approach-Sonic of Rage & Bare Knuckles: Now With 100% Less Final Fight Asset Theft-but it can be made to work in 2D as well. I'll have to see myself how ShadowG pulls it and everything else off, though Doom Blast basically being a cinematic move does sound like a big miss. And that's a nice segue into the topic of "gimmick moves" and move relevance in general. I certainly hear you on that; Sonic's Light Dash started as one, and they're all over other sorts of games, most notably many with some sort of grapple-and-swing mechanic dependent on specific objects keyed to be grappleable. But even they can be strategized around if done with enough looseness; when you can use them, is it always better? Are some approaches to using them better than others? It's always faster to use the Spin Dash in Adventure 1, but future Sonic games ditch the charge time, which could force you to ask: stay on a slower run to keep your momentum for when you can't LD, or LD really fast to an immediate stop and count on increased control/other moves right afterward to make up for that? OfC, this works best when you can LD to ANY ring within appropriate reach, not just predesignated ring trails. Similarly, Metroid II and Super Metroid have some looseness with which you can use the Spider Ball and Grapple Beam respectively, but Metroid Prime has hardly any. On the other hand, even more freely useable moves can suck. This is the case for Superstars's Emerald powers. Exactly what use do they have to help someone get better times in that game? Sure, they're good beginner helps, but many beginners aren't even going to be able to get them, so they'd better provide a lot more, and they don't. Back to ShadowG specifically, Shadow's line in Dark Beginnings referring to "that life" didn't mean his own past on the Ark as that was as full of torment as it was joy, if not more so-not exactly something to be nostalgic for. Rather, he was referencing the source of what joy there was: _Maria herself._ "Life" as in a living being, not a lifestyle, like what reports of "lives lost" mean. He certainly wishes Maria were still alive, but he also knows that such mere wishing isn't doing him or Maria any favors. It isn't that he "doesn't need Maria anymore", but rather that he simply needs to discard hopes of bringing her back lest they turn his care and gratitude for her from booster to burden. Like the actual shuttle booster, she'd literally become dead weight, no longer capable of direct help. Even so, so much of Shadow's identity is tied to his past to the point where he can't neatly integrate with Sonic and Co., so his story potential may have reached its limit anyway. Which is regretful because he'd only ever saved the world from those dependent on him for their own plans and who indeed got stronger from using him-in other words, HE's his own villain. Which is a good lead-in to the big point I'd *ahem* foreshadowed: the possible real reason why this particular decade of Sonic is so slow and devoid of truly new content. There's clearly a whole metanarrative about the series having lost its way going on throughout what new there is; in Frontiers, Murder of STH, ShadowG… Hell, even Prime was one big allegory for that with Nine's whole deal. My belief, or at least my hope, is that, combined with the movies bringing on new fans, this is all leading up to a big, badly needed franchise-wide reset. We'd had in-fiction resets before, not just with Adventure 2 and Prime, but '06 and the comics with the Genesis Wave. So it's quite plausible. They may have to spend time getting everyone on board, not just for those people's sake, but also Yuji Naka's if they want to bring him back since he may have to pass his probation first unlike Naoto Ohshima who was able to work with Sega again all but right away after Balan Wonderworld got sent out to die. It also seems like the REAL devil behind ruining Sonic's direction was Toshihiro Nagoshi, a Sega veteran who isn't exactly a big fan of younger kids and in particular Nintendo. It was likely him that wanted Sega to outright crush Nintendo instead of sportingly competing with them, thus Sonic was marketed differently in the East and West; its cute side would be used to try to pull Japanese kids away from their Famicoms while its edgy side would play to teens in Western markets "growing out of" the NES but lacking the scratch for a decent gaming PC. Sonic was little more than a tool to Nagoshi; a means to conquering the market. Good thing he's gone from Sega now. But even if he was the top toxin, there may be others in Sega poisoning the Sonic well. Sonic has always been a "special case" to Sega, so their actions will have to speak before my money does. (Also, this game is in no way meant to reference the Sonic X anime: the "×" in "Sonic × Shadow Generations" is actually a _cross_ meant to say that this is an intermingling of Sonic Generations and Shadow Generations. It's much like Street Fighter × Tekken, which the announcer actually reads as "Street Fighter Cross Tekken". While "Sonic X" all by itself is indeed "Sonic Ex". Just as with Mega Man X. But the cross in "Sonic × Shadow Generations" is silent, as it is in "Hunter × Hunter". But sometimes an actual X is used yet still meant to be read as "Cross", as in Project X Zone and Xenoblade (Chronicles) X. All on top of X being ALSO used as the Roman numeral for ten. And it's "Mega Man Ex-2" but "Dancemania Twelve" even though both are written with "X2". The Japanese treat even foreign symbols, not just kanji, as being capable of having multiple readings like that. Of course, kanji themselves are technically foreign, being taken from Chinese. Still, yes, the Japanese are being abusive as all f==k to the Latin script. But since when have they ever cared about how we read "their" stuff? Oi…)
another banger pop off queen 🙏 The stagnation of 3D sonic gameplay video opened my eyes to the idea of momentum in sonic games. Since Colors was my first exposure to sonic I don’t mind the boost formula, but when I explored the classics much later I realized how great the movement of momentum based physics can feel. I especially realized this when I stumbled upon a 3D sonic fan game from 2012 called Green Hill Paradise Act 2 where using the terrain was the optimal way to build up speed. It felt great to spin dash down a huge slope and launch off a ramp to get insane air or break through a door to access a hidden area using your speed. I’m down for more boost games with shadow generations level design but I’d also love for sonic team to attempt this approach at some point.
11:22 - I mean, yeah? The original Japanese version always has better writing. Literally the only dialogue that was better in the localized SA2 was Eggman talking out loud to himself in one of the earlier cutscenes instead of giving exposition to no one.
Yh whilst stagnation is always gonna be a conversation point when talking about shadow generations, this is an add on for a gens rerelease the gameplay had to be at least close to gens otherwise the package would’ve been really jarring for casuals. I feel like a lot of your critiques for this game are there because st had to make the game feel like a generations game for them to justify them being release together. So for what is I can’t bring myself to actually critique them for stagnation
I believe Sonic X Shadow Generations is a wonderful package,but it was kind of a missed opportunity to have Shadow Generations be made with Hedgehog Engine 1 like Sonic Generations and reuse that game's framework like how Bowser's Fury uses 3D World's framework. Sonic Generations still feels the most polished and carefully designed 3D Sonic game even if Shadow Generations does get closer than the past outings we've had,and it would just make both games more coherent with one another and prevent a jarring graphical change.
Yeah! You flex that movie credit! You deserve it! Critiquing a game while presenting alternatives and fixes is the way to go, in my opinion and making it clear that you know what you're talking about just sweetens the deal. Always a treat to see your perspective on Sonic projects.
glazing yourself for the fact you were in a big production only to shit on hardworking developers is not the way to go because it's extremely unprofessional
i interpret shadow leaving the past behind him a lot less literally, in shadow 2005 the book is closed there are no more mysteries about his past it’s no longer the driving force of his narrative, and letting go and moving on is the goal, but you can’t just walk away from something like that the love doesn’t disappear the hurt doesn’t disappear it doesn’t work like that, even if you move on and continue to grow the love and hurt will always be a part of you, you can’t turn it off, and even so shadow 05 was an unsatisfactory bookend too, in my eyes at least, shadow generations tries to right the wrongs and give second chances to aspects of the series, we got to see disappointing levels like kingdom valley, sunset heights and chaos island reimagined showcasing the potential they could’ve been and more importantly now instead of ignoring his past truma’s shadow actually gets closure and a goodbye to gerald and maria and comes out of it a stronger person and i quite like that a lot. shadow generations tries the game of second chances
It absolutely was NOT subtle haha, it was a deliberate quote from Devil May Cry 3 because I noticed a lot of thematic similarities between that and Shadow Gens. But if you didn't know what "Devil May Cry" is, it probably wouldn't stick out too much, which is good.
Slight objection - Shadow didn’t “turn back” - he was sent back by Black Doom. Tackling old foes with his new found “never turn back” attitude best seen in how pitiful he now finds Metal Overlord’s priorities. But yeah new levels please Sega you can do it
@@Scroteydada From an in-universe level, yeah, kind of. But Shadow is a fictional character at the mercy of his creators. They *chose* to make him revisit his past again. They didn't have to do that. As I said in the video, I don't think his attitude towards his past is very consistent in this game, either. It really seems like he's still actively thinking about Maria even before meeting her again.
@@telekinesticman Shadow was never supposed to stop thinking about Maria. It was already established in sources like Fast Friends or Channel that Shadow doesn't care for mankind but still protects the world since he values Maria's opinions.
That sounds like another 2010s/2020s Sonic retcon to me. Shadow never mentioned Maria after Shadow '05. It seemed pretty clear to me in Sonic 06 that he really had moved on.
@@telekinesticman It wasn't a retcon. Mephiles' plan with Shadow was to use his stance on mankind (he doesn't care for them) to manipulate him into helping Mephiles kill everyone. Shadow doesn't ever deny that G.U.N. or mankind would turn on him one day just that he'll fight them. Shadow wouldn't still lack trust or fondness towards mankind unless he still thought about Maria with what happened to her
I don't like the movies. I may have "seen" it last night in a way that doesn't involve giving Paramount my money, and I wasn't impressed. Same problems as the last two, but at least it was a tiny bit more "Sonic-y". Honestly the characterisation is just so radically different that it loses all appeal to me as an adaptation. I'm a Sonic fan, I want to see *Sonic* in the Sonic movie. But that thing isn't Sonic.
@@telekinesticman Oh I understand what you mean I think that Sonic 1 and The knuckles show were kinda horrible because it didn't have much of the characters there but I think sonic the hedgehog 2 and sonic the hedgehog 3 were great
Still, it looks bad and it shouldn't be there, they are kind of like car crashes I guess... Look at them once and you can't look away or not acknowledge their existence. Not hating Frontiers, it would just be utlimately better without them, right? I'm just saying you shouldn't be able to cause this glitch in the first place, kind of like the floating parry thing.
@Leon-ir3gm yeah It looks bad but man, people act like its the end of the world when stuff like this happened to me in infamous and i still had a good time, like i'm not againts polish games, but a little bit of jank and people act like (this Broken) gets a little exagerated for me
Where do you think the likelihood of Sega/Sonic Team commissioning external development studios to create 3d platformers in series? If so, do you think a title akin to Sonic Robo-Blast 2, or any other fan work of this cloth would ever see the light of day? (Sorry about the basic questions.)
@@safeenentertainment8566 I don't see that happening any time soon. I feel like Sonic Mania was the exception to the rule and they probably want more internal control over their own 3D games, but that's just speculation.
I think two words can define what you want a 3D Sonic game to be by learning from its origins: *Simply Complex* However, that does mean limiting the open ended approach for the general audience who aren’t that big in Sonic’s gameplay. Not many are a fan of his gameplay as appose to Mario’s more simple gameplay that has a lot of complex elements imbedded in other ways. When trying to stick that balance is where Sonic Team feels is much easier to do what they have done already, which also attracts more people. It’s not so much his gameplay sucks, but they rather have it simple. But I’m right there with you in I hope the last “Boost” game that refines what Shadow has done, sets it on the shelf for a while. I don’t hate Boost, but Open Zone isn’t really a replacement in regard to what Adventure/Unleashed did years back. In essence, Open Zone is just another way of saying Hub World Level…which isn’t exactly new to games.
A little offtopic, but i kinda detest these "Sonic Team has the last chance" shoice of words in these speeches at this point. Like it's okay to have grievances and communicate it to people, but if your interest in something depends only on action of someone, with which you can't meaningfully interact, why even bother at this point.
Fair enough, I was just trying to communicate that as much as I want them to move on from the boost, I wouldn't be against one last game *if* they fix all the other remaining problems from Shadow Gens.
i'm glad you atleast got some enjoyment from sonic X shadow generations...but i wonder 14:33 what do you think about idw's characterizations for the sonic characters such as sonic,amy,tails,knuckles,shadow(urban warfare) etc? do you think their potrayal is good and how they should be more or less or not? but i can tell you like sonic X's characterization more.
Excellent video, while this is the first Sonic Team game I really enjoyed since Generations (funny, the only game that compared to Gens 13 years later is... Gens again) I still agreed with most of your points especially regarding the originality and new direction one. It's very annoying that relying on the past is not just taking old levels now but stories and character arcs even. Again I love the game but I can't think of it as anything more than a Generations DLC, which is what we should've got back in the day instead of that Casino DLC, and I think Sonic deserves way more than that, and nobody should be mad by someone wanting more and for the franchise to be better. Doom Blast is my favorite of all ability but I do agree that It's heavily restrictive, and with a few changes it could be way more dynamic, like letting you change your direction / aiming with the camera instead of being forced to this specific location and Shadow is looking at, being able to shoot it anywhere instead of just two pre-determined points and finally letting it be used on all enemies instead of just the Doom ones. All of all the abilities the surf one is so mind boggling to me, It's literally just a nerfed boosting on water which Sonic can already do much better, which feels weird for Shadow to have the weaker counterpart. Excellent video as always, I didn't really feel the long length, which is a good sign. Oh BTW was 9:18 intentional? Lol
I cannot envision a situation where that DMC name drop couldn't be intentional, haha. I just noticed the similar themes of not letting your dark heritage define you. Shadow may be a "devil", but he still has real feelings. He also literally cries at the end, so it all came together nicely. I thought it was a funny line but it also made a point.
Sure, but I enjoy seeing other people's times and seeing what I can do to improve my own runs. When everyone else's times are completely different to mine because of modding, I can't do that comparison anymore. That's my issue with Chaos Control, too. I'll see speedruns with lower times than mine, but then I watch the video and see they've actually spent much longer in the stage than I have, in real-time. So I lose that ability to compare my runs against others to see what I can do better.
Competition is a natural part of arcade game design and what time attack and scoring/rating are based on. Game-ifying self improvement is what makes games stand out as an artistic medium and has always been a major appeal to Sonic games. Competition and the desire to improve are fundamental human desires that go hand in hand and which games have always tapped into since their inception. Expecting a SEGA game, of all places, to do better in this regard is one of the most appropriate criticisms in this whole fucking video.
You guys are right. I've never really compared my time to anyone else because I could only compare it to speedrunners, and those guys clip through walls to get their best times. So time has never really been that important to me. For me, it's how fast I go during gameplay, it's about the flow I get from time attacking rather than the end result. Like I'll see gameplay from someone doing a cool skip and I'll say "woah, I have to incorpirate that to my runs". The reason I love time attacking is not because of the time, it's because it's faster and more satisfying than playing it casually. Another thing I'd like to say is about the time freeze for chaos control. It's terrible, I hope they remove it in a future patch
I'm not really sure why you brought up SRB2 in this video. You're not gonna be winning anybody on your opinions by comparisons between Shadow Gens and SRB2, since it seems to me that at least more than half the fanbase doesn't like SRB2 due to its clunkiness. But I agree, especially with chaos spear and launching enemies in specific areas. Those are binary rather than open, and I don't really agree with everyone else that these are perfect additions to the game. You shouldn't be forced to go through any area in a specific way, you should have options. A single move should have multiple uses. Better example is Shadow in P-06. Chaos spear has SO many uses in that game. 1. Stun enemies 2. When upgraded does damage to enemies 3. In uninhibited mode can one-shot all enemies 4. Increase your height 3 times 5. Stay suspended in the air to avoid touching the ground to maintain combos 6. Refreshing homing attack/chaos snap increasing your range
I thoroughly disagree with your criticisms of Shadow's character here. Any other time I'd probably feel the same, that Shadow's "never turn back but not really" thing going on in Shadow Generations is just nostalgia bait and/or poor writing, but for as much as people like to give Ian Flynn shit, he knows these characters, he knows Shadow has TRIED to forget about Maria and for the most part has. But when you lose someone, you can say you're "over it" as much as you want, and the pain of that loss does fade over time. But with this game's confirmation that Shadow DOES actually remember his life pre-Shadow the Hedgehog, and he isn't just going off the information others have told him, wouldn't you do and feel the same given these circumstances? When you dream of someone you lost and in the dream that person is still with you, even if you've moved on, youre still shocked and confused. You're happy to see this person but unsettled because you remember them dying. And as the dream goes on, a sense of dread comes over you when you realize that because this person is alive, you'll have to suffer that grief you've already felt once when they DO die. It's not inconsistent character writing to see someone you loved and lost alive and well and have that image immediately bring you right back to a place you thought you'd left behind. And his inconsistent reaction to her feels less potent because it's done realistically. He went back through Rail Canyon and Kingdom Valley- which he doesn't even recognize- it's natural for him to go from shock and relief to being unsure if what he's seeing is just another thing from his past or if Maria is actually right in front of him.
i dont get why you're bringing up the momentum stuff in a game that was never going to have it in the first place. like, yeah i love player expression and i love the momentum stuff, and i dont think its odd you cant air boost after certain things, but i feel like you're critiquing the game at points about things that it feels like it never even attempted to do
I brought up all those points to solidify how this is more of the same. I've seen people treat Shadow Gens as this huge leap forward, but it's really not. It's the same stuff we've been getting for years, just done better.
Maybe it's because we never should have gotten a playstyle so shallow and braindead in the first place, and they should have just hired people who know what Sonic actually is.
tbh i don't mind 2d sections in modern boost sonic levels. But it is only if it's through how Unleashed did it, where the 2d sections are still feeling thrilling and reactive. They get boring when it hits Sonic Colors territory imo
ever since i played shadow generations, i noticed that the levels weren’t as replayable as sonic generations’ levels. for so long i had no idea why, until you posted this video. there are the exact critiques that i also see for the game, i hope one day we’ll get back to sonic unleash’s boost style.
I'd be honoured to know that anyone who makes these games actually hears what I have to say, but please don't harass them on my behalf. If they end up seeing it somehow, that's great, but I don't want people being annoying about it. I appreciate the thought, though.
27:57 In those 3D sonic games you should be looking for a flow more similar to character action games than normal plataformers or else you won't really like them
True. My only problem is that Radical Highway shows up 5 whole times, showing it once in Space Colony Ark Act 1 would've been enough honestly. At the point when Radical Highway came around I was already despite the new Wing Ability kind of tired of it since it was teased in 3 from 5 Zones beforehand.
Sure, they have "to do with Shadow" in some vague historical sense, but they don't affect the narrative in any way. Nor do they really offer any real thematic meaning, like how Sonic games usually go from lush natural levels into more industrialised ones as the game progresses. These levels and bosses could be swapped out with any others and the story wouldn't change at all.
@telekinesticman .... Dude biolizard has to do with shadow's past, his prototype. Metal Sonic a creature without identity, something shadow went through during his identity crisis, mephiles is his literal shadow that tried to manipulate him to destroy the world because he was angry. I don't think that swapping them would keep the themes of the story the same. Also they have to do with shadow's story, just as sonic's part of the Game is to reflect both his rivals and important bosses. The only one i don't see fitting is metal and even then he absorb his data and had interactions with him in rivals, like again. There is significance to their appearances and why they were chosen. Its not like generations 3DS where Sonic fights the biolizard even though he fought the final hazard
@@telekinesticman like again, the ark, place of birth, rail canyon is where the identity crisis began, kingdom valley his first meeting with mephiles and sunset heights well he was there, like again. These have thematic significance. At least the only one i could see changing is rail canyon to final fortress and including a shadow the hedgehog level Also the only one not fitting is chaos island and maybe It has to do with foreshadowing Who knows
Thanks for bringing up how the game handles it's core themes and messages because that's easily the biggest problem I have with it. For me, it really felt like any message the writers were trying to get across failed miserably and I think in doing so, the characters suffered for it. There's a great story hidden in here somewhere, but it never took advantage of it's own ideas.
@@joaquindiaz3621 The game was just showing the audience what Shadow's actual status quo in the 2010s onward is rather than leaving too much of it in supplemental sources and interviews and podcasts. Shadow protecting the world with Maria's stance behind him and not caring for mankind was already established in sources like Sonic Channel.
I don't see what would be wrong with having two different timers - a real-time one, and a Chaos Control in-game one. I want to make it through the level as fast as possible, not stop to kill every enemy to farm a meter that artificially reduces my time. That's not really speedrunning, it's more like Score Attack at that point.
@@SpinyPuffs Yes, but many enemies are positioned in a way where this is not optimal. If you want to farm Chaos Control meter, you need to slow down and Homing Attack a bunch of random enemies in order to freeze the timer again. You see this in basically every "speedrun" of Shadow Gens that deliberately farms Chaos Control gauge.
I don't believe I ever said I would cover P06 directly? I've never planned on doing a dedicated video on it, but I might stream it one day. I don't have much to say about it.
I don’t think Shadow letting go of his past means he doesn’t care about Maria anymore, it would be more strange if he didn’t honestly. It just means he doesn’t let his past haunt him and cloud his judgement the way he used to, but he’s obviously still going to have emotions about it and he still loves Maria
This feels like a direct contradiction to the ending of Shadow '05, but even if we assume this was their intention, I still find Shadow's reaction to seeing Maria and Gerald a bit inconsistent. He flip-flops between acting emotional and acting reserved, and I can't really tell why. For a game that reunites him with these characters, it's odd just how little time they spend together.
He does this because while he still deeply cares about his family, he knows they are from the past and arent his family anymore.
Sonic Battle has Shadow said that "I had Maria in my heart."
@@telekinesticman The ending of Shadow's game wasn't that he'll stop thinking about his family just that he's done wondering who he is and what he should be.
@@telekinesticman trauma is a weird thing. It can flair up even if you think you’ve gotten past it. And while Shadow is clearly trying to hold it together, in other moments he simply can’t. It makes complete sense to me.
Bruh, that was some cheesy-ass writing with that devil may cry line. Love it lol
Ayo it's the sonic weeb!
DAMN. Pariah praising a reference.
Hey Pariah! I just wanted to say I really love your videos and I would honestly maybe want to see videos in the future where you talk about how you would write some of the newer games ( Forces or maybe Frontiers ). You really helped me think more about Sonic in general and with my frustation with newer Boost Entries and I am highly thankful for your opinions, even though I might not always agree! I am not sure if you will but are you planning on making videos on the Movies someday since they are quite different than the Original Stuff?
@@cannonbyrd1755more like the Sonic FUCKING EXPERT
@@Pariah6950 yo wtf i know you! big ups bro
In my opinion the thing about Shadow telling that hes never turning back again, but he gets so suprised when seeing Maria for the first time, is that he was in the end of Shadow 05 trying to run away from his past. Thats why he cries in the end of Shadow Gens, because he's been running away from grief his whole life, since Sonic Adventure 2
18:50 I think you might be selling the old boost games a bit short
Preferences are preferences and I’m not trying to negate that but part of the appeal of the boost was exactly that for many people.
Learning those exact button presses discovering secrets and that trial and error is what made getting that perfect run more satisfying
I like both versions Reactive and Active a lot. I’m just trying to spread some appreciation
I mean all boost games (colors gens lost world shadow gens dream team) have real level design but forces is actually boost to win
My girlfriend is into rhythm games, and Sonic X Shadow Gens was her first Sonic game. She actually found herself much more drawn to the boost formula over the classic games (even after sampling a bit of Mania) because the appeal of the boost formula is fundamentally the same as a rhythm game. It's about learning the correct sequences of button presses through trial and error (and in this case also finding shortcuts) to craft a "perfect run." The mid level cutscenes also aid this appeal, as often rhythm games incorporate short breaks during a song to let the player reorient themselves and take a breather.
@@dynamicyouthtube Calling Lost World a boost game is admitting you have never play it.
But yeah, Forces wasn't bad because Boosting doesn't work, Forces was bad because they had no money to make levels by the time the engine was finished. In general the Nostalgia isn't the series trap in the past, is a budget issue of Sonic Team needing to cut cost.
Honestly including Frontiers in the stuck in the past part feels wrong when only Cyber space is like that and it is by far the smallest part of the game.
@@dynamicyouthtube Lost World is not a boost game
@@derple8524 I don’t really know what to consider it it’s apart of the boost era
Bro’s not just gonna not care that his dead family is alive in front of him. That’s absurd.
That’s not what happened in the game at all. He was clearly very shook
@chaomasterzero4610 he is talking about what the person is saying in the RUclips video
I think its a little disingenuous to expect huge sweeping changes to the Sonic formula in whats supposed to be an extension to the original Generations thats meant to play similarly. Thats not to say they shouldn't try to rethink their game design in the future, just that this isnt really the place to do it.
I don’t think he’s logically asking for it to happen here, and it was probably a better decision to keep Shadow in-line with Sonic Generations in order to keep consistency between the two campaigns. His point is that these problems still harm the overall game experience.
Yeah I didn't expect them to fundamentally change everything, but the point stands that everything is still the same. The changes made are mostly additive, instead of foundational.
@@telekinesticman Sorry if I put words in your mouth, it's just that the start of the video seemed to me like you expected Shadow Gens to be indicative of Sonic Team's current approach to game design when it's really filling a different role. If anything Final Horizons is closer to that, as flawed as it is
@@seematahir5970I think its fine to have high expectations for a $50\60 game
@@willberto6969a 50 dollar remaster, come on man
This and Pariah are the only Sonic review channels that I will drop everything to watch, not counting Cybershell who is dead
This is definitely another Standard Sonic Game but I’m glad it’s at least a truly Great one, not just another “Good first step.”
Don't do Sonic's name dirty like that. The last several projects from the past two decades haven't been Sonic games. They're corporate products. Money-milking shovelware that couldn't give a rat's ass about the source material. Sonic ended in 2001, or 1998, take your pick.
@ “Muh 90s Sonic is the only real Sonic” Lol take a hike buddy.
@@Terminal_Apotos Take a hike? What are you talking about? The passionate creators of the property are the ones to establish the intended vision. That's the identity. That's what people remember. It's timeless because it's made by competent artists.
That IS the real Sonic, and it's what people are gonna wanna see, no matter what the corporation wants to change it into.
Don't treat me like a retard, that's uncalled for.
@@Terminal_Apotosim a modern sonic fan and i agree
@@doggerlander That’s great buddy!
One of the greatest examples of how fundamentally Sonic Team does not understand the appeal of rolling as a tool to gain speed is that this is the 2nd Modern Sonic game in a row that features the Drop Dash... Without having an actual rolling system to go along with it. We enjoyed the Drop Dash because it was a tool that enhanced the EXISTING systems of rolling and Spin Dashing.
Having the Drop Dash without a roll button is like if you gave Mario a Long Jump but not a normal Jump.
Wait, it's actually in Shadow Generations??? 😮
SS68, good to see you here.
I think you're touching on something that TelekinesticMan is saying as well, but I personally don't think you're going far enough.
What you're saying applies to basically every single element of the games for the past decade+.
As you already know, my position is that boost is the literal worst thing that ever happened to Sonic, because it did as TeleMan said earlier in this video, replacing the "reactive" gameplay built on momentum with the "proactive" methodology that we have now.
I criticised SonicXShadow the moment that I heard about it because I knew it was just going to do exactly what was mentioned here.
Additionally they said they were done with the boost with Frontiers being the start of the next era... and then they *immediately* made a boost focused game in SonicXShadow.
Personally I say they should just do exactly what TeleMan said... Start from scratch, no boost, no panels, no automation.
Built a straight platforming gameplay engine and see where you go with it!
Sadly I have zero hope for this. To me, SonicXShadow is just proof that they will never let go of "the Boost formula", Frontiers was a glimmer of something slightly different but it was, in my opinion, low quality in every single area from visuals to animations to combat system... Honestly even Frontiers does the same thing, automation in areas where they could have done so much more.
Where Frontiers has "press button > perform the full move", Heroes had you performing different things in order to get in to the right attacks on enemies.
You would start with Sonic and use the tornado then switch to Knuckles to do damage, or use Tails to knock enemies down then use Sonic to finish them off while also gaining height to start traversing straight out of combat, it was so much more fluid and well fitting for the characters.
Alas, I can only say the same thing twice, I have no hope, they will NEVER let go of "the Boost formula".
I have a different form of hope though, I'm a game dev, and I know plenty of modders and indie devs are on their way too, to making the things we always wanted from 3D Sonic, the future that never happened.
@@NimsoStudios Bro, I've been following you for years. I know exactly what you mean and I've played enough of your demos to know that you can and HAVE proven that a 3D momentum-based Sonic has a place in the industry.
We can only watch and see how games like Rollin' Rascal perform to know how successful such a concept could go critically and financially. Perhaps then Iizuka will take notice.
@@NimsoStudios One of the few people in here who's unafraid to tell it like it is. Fuck that glorified run button.
Appreciate the use of the word "modular" with the mechanic descriptions here, gets pretty succinctly to the core of why skill and mastery in even the best 3D Sonic games can often boil down to rote memorization.
There's definitely depth to what makes that satisfying, the difference between a Generations and a Forces proves that, but feeling the controls for themselves always feels like something is being compensated for.
Considering the massive positive reception of this game, I don't think now would be a good time to just completely throw everything out and start over when they JUST found out what works again. I'm more in favor of a gradual shift that leaves the boost formula in steps (starting with the most important changes), rather than Sonic Lost World 2 where everything is completely different and no one likes it
Not that I think a new formula wouldn't be great, but rather I'm not certain that Sonic Team wouldn't fail and make Sonic a laughing stock again when it just became a more respected franchise in recent years
@@gottendesert069 Speak for yourself, I'd love a LW2.
_"I'm more in favor of a gradual shift that leaves the boost formula in steps"_
This mentality doesn't make sense when the boost itself didn't come gradually. They made Unleashed the way it was directly after 06 failed and didn't hang on to any of the Adventure style gameplay. I'd rather them just move the boost back to a spin-off thing rather than mainline since it was openly stated over a decade ago they didn't know how to push the boost anywhere, which has been the case ever since Unleashed. All they've done is polish things or remove gimmicks or implement new gimmicks. Nothing that truly makes the boost itself evolve.
@@tyguy6290yes and no. The boost feature did already exist and was seeing implementation in 2D Sonic, while 3D Sonic was having similar, highly restricted versions, i.e. see the speed boost gem in 06 as just ONE example.
Boost in 3D also seemed abrupt, because 06 failed so badly. Sonic is doing better than he has in ages, and an abrupt shift will not sit well with the large crowd. There is a VERY good reason the phrase “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” exists, and this is why. A step in the right direction is taking what went right in Frontiers and improving it, while removing what didn’t sit well with fans. Boost can’t just up and disappear, the vocal minority does not represent the consumer base at large. And never will. Doing it gradually as of right now will see much more consistent positive results.
@@hyperstargaming6150 I'm aware of the 2D Rush games and their implementation of the boost, but those are 2D games and not 3D, and even then the way you approach gameplay in both Rush and Unleashed are different despite having the same mechanic. I do not believe that Unleashed was a great interpretation of boost as it feels restricted.
_"while 3D Sonic was having similar, highly restricted versions, i.e. see the speed boost gem in 06 as just ONE example."_
That singular example in 06 isn't even a great example because the functionality of the Blue Gem in 06 is no different from a dash ability. The Blue Gem (dash) is an optional ability and more supplementary compared to the Boost where the gameplay is centered around it. And even if you would consider the Mach Speed sections of 06, those sections are so minuscule in the grand scheme of not only Sonic's campaign, but the game as a whole since all four Mach Speed sections only amount to around 3-4 minutes of playtime. And as said before, they didn't hang on to much of the Adventure gameplay and gradually ease it out, they just gutted everything after 06 failed, not really something I'd consider a graceful _"gradual"_ shift. From my perspective, it didn't even make sense to shift away from the Adventure gameplay when it never got a chance to be truly refined, meanwhile, the boost has been here for 16 years now and hasn't gone anywhere meaningful. It's stale and stagnant.
_"Sonic is doing better than he has in ages"_
Financially sure, but creatively not really, Sonic is still holding on to the same design principles that we've been seeing since SA1. And I frankly don't care about the franchise's financial success since that could still mean more boost later just because _"""""it worked"""""_ . I think it'd solve problems to just have boost spin-off titles running alongside non-boost oriented titles.
_"...an abrupt shift will not sit well with the large crowd. There is a VERY good reason the phrase “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” exists."_
Problem is it was openly stated in an interview well over a decade ago that they don't know how to innovate on the boost, which tells me that the boost is broken. And that wouldn't be a strange conclusion to come to either considering we're still stuck with the same stagnant framework with no genuine improvement to it. If they actually took the boost somewhere meaningful I'd agree, but this has yet to be seen.
I'm also not interested in what the _"large crowd"_ and/or fans think about the boost when many have also pointed out the shortcomings in it and the developers themselves have even noted that it's a bottleneck. Hell, there are many casuals and fans alike that believe the highly successful Sonic movies should be noted for how the characters are characterized and I still disagree regardless because the game Sonic characters and movie Sonic characters are fundamentally different. Argumentum ad populum (appeal to the people/majority) is a fallacy that I'm not interested in entertaining.
_"A step in the right direction is taking what went right in Frontiers and improving it..."_
And I'm no longer interested in seeing a _"step in the right direction"_ . I want them to execute on a solid core idea instead of having to "gradually" do it, other developers are able to do this. How many more of these _"steps"_ do we need before we actually get somewhere? Because I've heard this phrase far too often by now.
@@tyguy6290Agreed. I feel like Sonic X Shadow Generations would be a great spot to leave behind the boost formula and nostalgia fumes the series has been running on for 13 years and take advantage of the new money flow and start fresh with momentum. Fans do not need to be desperate for how people view sonic to the point he is stuck in the boost formula. Sega and Sonic Team are in the position to move forward with the series and they need to take advantage of it.
9:17 Hold up this writing is fire
@@CaptainF123 Bars
Just wanted to comment here again thanking you for showing off Shady Knight in this video and your Shadow Gens stream. I recently picked it up and played a bit of it. It's sick af.
This is why i've been saying in sonic youtuber comment sections rails are pointless nowadays. Rails are the perfect object to describe the aonic series: "over simplification". Rails used to be more than just hold boost but now i just hate any rail stage because they've robbed every mechanic rails had since it's incarnation. Balance? Gone. Acceleration? Gone. Hell with this game we lost crouching too. No wonder they are barley even a footnote in this video. Either remove them or give them a sense of control again.
@bebopknux5857 The problem is when they did have control, they were incredibly janky and often led to many unfair deaths. Rail switching doesn't work half of the time, and I've also had several cases where I fell through the rail when just trying to land on it normally. Doing normal jumps to switch rails also doesn't really solve the issue since it halts your momentum, and the controls aren't always the most precise. To be fair, these problems were mostly in Heroes since that's the game that focuses most on switching, but it still had its moments in SA2. It was fun to occasionally get the right balance and zip down the rails, but I'm more than okay with leaving that behind if it means the simple act of switching rails doesn't feel like a gamble anymore.
@@brantchristy3490 Why not remove rail switching and make the player manually jump
@worlds-biggest-mbn-fanboy Like I said, manual jumps kill the momentum and still feels awkward. Most of the boost games in particular have very stiff jumps, and I'd hate to think about how jumping from rail to rail would feel with those controls.
SA2 had it right from the get go too, it just needed some smoothing to the input but the physics was 10/10 (talking 'bout physics not the rail switching)
Totally agree
39:26 Yes and No.
People are complex there’s nothing wrong with wanting certain things from something you enjoy.
Just like how plenty of people grew up with boost games and don’t really want the series to go to momentum.
Why should momentum be omitted from the boost formula? You want that, go play Forces and Frontiers. It's got plenty of that for you. It's plastic and boring without it. You can and SHOULD have both
@@stormcutter59 it would work If we had Sonic Team work on Boost games, and a whole new team working on 3D momentum games, that's actually the best compromise for both, cause we know this Sonic Team does not understand momentum at all. But a new team like the Mania Team now dubbed Evening Star who made Penny's Big Breakaway could work since not only do they understand it, but other teams of people could understand it better and make the kind of games we want
@derple8524 Except Sega does not like them and is stingy as all hell. They are a constant problem with the hiring of good people to work on Sonic. It would be right for them to do just what you said, making different KINDS of Sonic games much like Mario does, but they don't seem to understand that. Sega wants to keep the series very close to their chest and allow very little freedom for people to do with it. So they only give a very few the "privilege" to work on the games, and it's under close scrutiny it seems.
@@stormcutter59 dude, they have sega hard light that do have momentum physics and even they are doing the new Racing game, like yeah i'm not defending sega, but they do have some good relationships with their teams minus the main one that again... FORCES GOT 2 NEWBIES FOR LEVEL DESIGN, like i'm not going to defend the Game itself but the team was in really bad conditions
@joaquindiaz3621 Yes, and that's the fault of Sega themselves. They are HORRIBLE at treating their teams well and managing them. We all know this. So that's what I'm talking about.
14:51 One of my favorite moments from Sonic. Having to constantly thwart Eggman’s plans doesn’t restrict him, it’s something he enjoys. So when Eggman isn’t around, he’s not a concern to Sonic. Sonic is constantly moving, ready for the next adventure.
Very disappointing that you just glossed over the game's excellent 2D level design. This is easily the best 2D level design in Sonic for a really long time. Saying you haven't played as much as the 3D and then not even mentioning the 2D levels isn't good enough. I think you are very guilty here of the kind of taste fanboyism you accuse people of doing in your videos (for example on Unleashed). You clearly prefer the 3D gameplay so straight up ignore 40% of the game because it doesn't strictly match your taste. Extremely poor in a critique.
Yeah I would retitle the video at this point. In a critique you don't ignore half of the gameplay experience
@@majestic3992 This video is long enough as it is. I wanted to focus on the parts of the game that I found the most interesting and appealing to me. This is the process I take with every video. Sure, I could have spoken more about the 2D stages. I could have also talked more about White Space, Gerald's journal, the bosses, and so on, but I didn't want to. I didn't have anything interesting to say, so I chose not to waste my own time, and everyone else's.
Nah they're not very good stages, at least in Generations there was some attempt to blend 2D and 3D together. The 2D only stages feel more static and boring by comparison
They were all pretty good but I think Kingdom Valley Act 2, Sunset Heights Act 2, and Chaos Island Act 2 were really great with a nice blend of that QTE gameplay and added emphasis on Platforming.
@@telekinesticman I just don't think this a good enough answer honestly. There's plenty to say about the 2D game design. It's your choice what you want to focus upon in each video, but if you want to be make a serious critique of the game I really don't think you can just ignore 40% of it.
Always appreciate a new Sonic analysis from you; even when I'm not entirely in agreement with you, your work always gives me a lot of insight on differing perspectives, and opens my mind to things I've never really considered! Honestly, all the talk of SRB2 in some of your recent stuff really makes me want to finally get around to playing it. Only a few things I wanna yap about, off the top of my head.
Spear Gliding might have been discovered during development and just kept in the full game for the sake of speedrunning. Kishimoto said that was true of the homing boost tech in Sonic Frontiers, and later updates of the game even acknowledged it by using an asterisk to denote a Cyber Space stage cleared using it, as well as with the spin dash. Makes me think that separating Chaos Control runs into their own category could've worked just fine, in that sense. Haven't had the chance to use spear glides myself, as the console version doesn't allow full button remapping and I can't pretzel my fingers around the face buttons, but I absolutely hope something like it carries over to future games.
You mentioning Shady Knight, as well as the inconsistency of the boost resetting in regards to grind rails and jumping off ziplines in Chaos Island VS in Tokyo, really reminded me how much I appreciate consistency and uniformity within game mechanics. Things like being able to jump cancel off anything with a hitbox, or parry anything with a hurtbox in an action game, for just one example. It's a small thing, but having everything in the player's arsenal staying consistent should be prioritized, especially in a game series like Sonic, where perfect play comes from the mastery of the mechanics and knowledge of the level design. Especially when Shadow Generations exists alongside Sonic Generations, which doesn't have those restrictions. Spear gliding to skip things like specific springs and boosters, and the automation that comes with them, is really cool, but doing them with less restrictions on the air boost afterwards would be amazing.
Hoping the next game trims down on the unskippable cutscenes, too, since they absolutely play a part in the inherent replayability of a level. The Black Doom transition scenes are a really cool way to flex that Sonic finally has a budget again, but The Ark, and especially Tokyo with its near minute and thirty seconds worth, gets a bit overbearing. There's probably no real way to eloquently get around them without just reducing the time they take, since a skip button would throw the player's time off in a similar way to Chaos Control; just skipping past the cutscene wholesale with the clock adding on the additional seconds thereafter is the only way I can see it working.
Also, the timer at 21:46 transitioning perfectly over from Shadow Gens to 06 was really slick, and I just hope you know I appreciated it.
22:28 i think mephiles needed the freshnel because his skin is just to dark to see, it's basically like ultimate Spiderman in shattered dimensions
Devil may cry
Cheesy as HELL, and I love it.
Pretty good video. But, I always thought that spectacle was a really important part of Sonic games' design. However I do wished it were more skill based.
Spectacle is nice but if it can be achieved via gameplay it should be done (Like a QTE of Shadow weaving through explosive mid air enemies versus manually doing that in 1 go)
Solid idea
At the same time though its 100% possible to have spectacle without taking control away from the player to see it
After the taste we got of spindash style sonic in sonic frontiers I am so desperate for a full fledged momentum styled game with the spindash
In defence of automation in 3D sonic games
Those games keep you so much on your toes for the best skips, shortcuts, etc.. more than the momentum based ones that the rest time that those sequences give you quite become welcome so you catch your breath for a few seconds and then instantly gets back into the action for in some games the best time and for others the best final score
Fair argument, but I don't think it works for the open White Space where it's more annoying. I would jump on a rail near Space Colony Ark one way and the camera would move the other way keeping me from from seeing what's in front of me. we need way less camera restrictions, heck just give us full camera control and we be good to go
I’m fine if the the automation is like barley in the game like sonic frontiers FH
Or some 10 seconds awesome cutscene like the volcano explosion in shadow gens
What I don’t want to many automation stacking up the next to each other
Man, even when you're not enjoying yourself with Sonic, your writing and voice always making it so charming to watch. It comes to you channel in general, Jurassic Park video of yours was very addicting to re-watch for example.
@@MintyBoi8 thank you, glad to hear it. For what it's worth, I think Shadow Gens is pretty good overall, I just have a ton of things I wish were improved
It's a promotional scapegoat for Sonic Movie 3
The devil has in fact cried.
I think the entire "Shadow Abilitys don't exist in a vacum" section falls flat.
You complained Shadow Abilitys are keys to doors put there by the developers and you use SRB2 as a better example. When the truth is that those abilities only work well because they are effectively slightly modified versions of already existing skills.
Vector is a Rhythm base Kuckles, Ray glide has very similar applications to Tails, and Shadow is a more controllable version of Sonics air attack.
These abilities work because they intencionaly were limited to fit into the already existing doors.
A similar thing happens with your other 2 examples, where an ability like quicking the floor to propulse yourself from was very clearly accounted for.
None of these are truly free, the difference is that one tells the player while the other doesn't . Modern Sonic games are arcade experiences that want the player to hunt the highest score possible and as such are very forward about how to progress through the stages. This is the same reason Chaos control freezes the timer and it recharges off enemies and these recharge has a small delay so it can allow you to chain chaos control. Sonic games are Score attacks above all else, this is why Time Attack is actually a side mission in the original Generations. Although I will say the complaint of a true timer not being available by default is very fair and it should have been added alongside the score timer.
I also find your complaint of springs and other elements slowing you down rather flawed when in a lot of your examples the only reason you are being faster by skipping them is because of Spear Gliding. A very clearly unintentional exploit that lets you fly over levels without the limitations and lack of verticality of the Doom Wings.
Dare I say, Spear gliding itself would likely not work if the game didn't have the Doom Wings in it and the designers hadn't accounted with the player being able to cross big air gaps with them.
Trying to TLTR, using the key into doors analogy to criticise this game gave me the impression you just fail to see this universal pattern of game design in other games rather than convincing me Shadow Generations design is too limited and not following the steps of the classic games. When even those classic games and just about every videogame use this exact same philosophy.
Genuinely don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Sure, the powers of those other characters are similar somewhat to the base characters...but doesn't that just show how much better those base game abilities are, too? Flying, gliding, climbing, air dashing etc. are all more versatile and useful than Shadow's highly context-sensitive Doom Powers.
@telekinesticman Those abilities are only usefull because the stages are designed to accommodate them. I'm criticism your complaint about keys into doors, because Sonic Robo Blast 2 does the exact same for it's core abilities and the modders understood they couldn't deviate too far from those core ideas when making new characters because otherwise they wouldn't work with the level design.
Keys into doors isn't something Shadow Gens does, it's something every videogame does because that's at it's core just how designing a level for a specific moveset works.
Also somewhat unrelated but something funny I noticed about the abilitys you listed:
Flying/Gliding: Doom Wings
Climbing: Doom Morph
Air Dashing: Air Boost
I think you've summed up what I've only merely heard was a criticism: That Shadow should not feel for his past the way he does here. The simple thing that perspective misses is that there is no specific way a character SHOULD act like. You do not overcome trauma, you learn to live with it. Even if Shadow addressed before that he wouldn't allow his past to mess with him, what's to say his mind cannot be changed?
I would have been fine with that if Shadow wasn't actively thinking about Maria *before* seeing her again. It's sending mixed signals.
@telekinesticman Well, to be fair that wound was reopened from the nightmare he had in the first episode of Dark Beginnings
@@jaylenpage3137this is something I’m seeing people constantly miss. Shadow’s vision in Dark Beginnings was NOT optional, he was suddenly and forcefully shown those painful memories strung in high energy, stressful events. He’s being shown his painful past all over again, and the elements that make it so painful: the good and the bad. Shadow stressing over thinking about Maria is because of something he basically no longer had control over. This takes place the same time as Generations so by all means, it’s not unrealistic to think that Shadow is going about his life with a flimsy bandaid for his trauma.
It’s just that I’ve noticed people conveniently forgetting, or intentionally leaving out canon material. Does it suck that it’s external to the game? Of course. It’s still canon, it still needs to be taken into account and addressed. It answers a lot of unnecessary questions.
I'm sure this is a fine video, but I'm admittedly turned off by the lack of nuance regarding Shadow's attachment to the past.
In what universe, is it realistic to be 100% unflinching and unbothered by trauma, past emotional connection, etc?
Yes, Shadow moved on, but moving on doesn't mean he cannot secretly wish that things turned out different, especially if the point of the game is that he's being thrown right back into his past. Not only would it be callous for Shadow to not act the way he does in the game, it would be boring otherwise.
I'm not sure where everyone is getting the notion that Shadow's reaction to the past is a contradiction.
giving you my own personal reply about this, feel free to not read if you don't want to, it as i wrote quite a lot here. in any case, know that i respect your views on shadow's character, and that i'm just throwing my ideas out here.
to me, the sonic cast is composed of characters who are mostly meant to represent ideas and concepts, not actual people with very complex feelings. shadow may be an exception, but this part of his character was already explored in his own game, where we see what could have happened to shadow in certain circunstances through the different routes in the game. yet none of that is canon, since the game wants to tell you that shadow is none of that.
he's not a hero like sonic said he is, he's not a weapon of destruction like gerald or black doom said he is. he's not a failed experiment that caused a tragedy like the g.u.n. commander said. he's his own being and he decides his own fate. that's what shadow's character represents. his decision in the canon ending was to put an end to his past, including gerald and maria, as shown by the final cutscene of his solo game. games like 06 and forces followed on that, as shadow is now a different character.
i think the way shadow generations treats shadow's character is less of a contradiction, and more of a mistake that sonic team thinks they can brush it off. in the game, rouge confirms shadow 05's influence on shadow's character, saying that he left his past behind. yet in practice, it's quite the opposite. the game tries to go both ways, and it not only fails at that, but takes current shadow's own agency away from him, as he now fights to fulfill his promise to maria once again just like in sa2, where the whole point is that he wasn't his own character, being controlled by gerald and only doing what he thought maria wanted him to do.
shadow generations implies that everything shadow will do from now on, will be with maria in mind, not his own self. his development is now gone despite what is said in the game, so it's a mistake in my opinion.
@@asukabruxinha1301 I like this! And I agree to an extent, but I feel like maria's wish and his own autonomy isn't mutually exclusive. As it's said in Shadow Gens, he was made with a soul similar to hers. To me, this felt like as if her will and his are intertwined regardless. Her goodness lives and breathes through him, a bioweapon. It's contrast. It's genius. Because him choosing her ideals means he's not choosing Black Doom or even Gerald's.
The ending cutscene I'd argue nullifies the idea that Shadow regressed because while he ALMOST gave in to his emotion and told Maria about the tragedy, she hushed him up, told him it doesn't matter, gave him affirmations and encouraged him to keep moving forward because the friends he has in the present day needs him.
@@odd-eyesvon their ideals are intertwined as you said, but i think that's precisely why shadow does need to be his own self; he's naturally pure, a pure soul. by having control over his own actions, shadow is always doing what he sees as right. fighting for a better world, even if said world fears him, and his powers. even if said world maybe doesn't deserve to be saved, because of what humanity did to maria. he doesn't need maria, as her will really is the same as shadow's.
i'd personally argue that to have shadow being reminded of his past, and to have him carrying maria's wish in his heart once again, just diminishes the impact maria had on shadow. as if he's not what maria wanted him to be, a source of good to humanity. he left her alongside his past, but he naturally carries her will by being who he wants to be.
@@asukabruxinha1301 Shadow resolved to protect the world regardless of his stance on mankind since he values Maria's opinions. He doesn't care about being there to aid mankind alone, but rather the world (which yeah includes mankind).
@@galten7361 that's sa2 shadow at the end of the game, as this doesn't apply to the current iteration of the character unless you count shadow generations. i personally don't count it, he's free to choose whether he will help mankind when in need, or not. this has almost nothing to do with maria, shadow just has a pure soul.
Sonic team got their bearings back, now they need to show they can go beyond their past and tread confidently into the future...
Huh... so that's why Silver's getting more popular nowadays...
You continue to be one of my favorite reviewers in relation to Sonic. Even when i disagree with you (sometimes heavily haha), you're super insightful and explain yourself well.
Seriously your point on the balloon homing attack point in your 3D sonic video was genuinely mind blowing and I will hope to implement it in projects I make in rhe future (I'm in Game Dev haha).
Keep up on the good work and congratulations on getting a job!
(I've a question I'd like to ask you but ill wait until the video is finished)
4:05 I mean imo considering this shadow still believes this to just be his life
It makes sense since he doesn’t actually remember why he wanted to throw his past away
He just sees his best friend
That Devil May Cry joke had me rolling on the floor. Nice job.
I have literally just ended watching the stagnation in 3d video lmaooooooo
This video may as well be a sequel to that, so consider it a double feature.
i just watched it yesterday night lol
best video i've watch this year
well done
I don't think I've poured so many hours into a sonic game within a month of getting it since sonic mania, and I really hope they keep making games of consistently good quality at the very least.
However I do agree with you that we need a new formula for 3d sonic. I personally don't want an exact recreation of the classic games in 3d, but I do want a higher emphasis on skill based mastery over levels to speed through them quickly. Perhaps they could combine elements from multiple formulas to create something we've never seen before.
we just got that new 3D formula the open-zone duh..
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x the open zone is really just a boost game but with superfluous open world stuff to do. It doesn't really excite me. The open zone in shadow gens was a lot better, but still, not really a "new" formula.
Video good. Me like. Make more.
Nah Balena fell off to following a moron who have more dislikes then likes?
@@lazyvoid7107🤡
Excellent editorial here as always.
(Sorry to hear you fell out of the comics a bit, but that's the thing about multimedia--we have the freedom of choice to continue on or not)
Cheers
Thank you! In regards to the comics, I'm not completely out, I just haven't caught up in a while. After the Metal Virus, the lack of meaningful storytelling really became apparent to me. I found all the Surge stuff very tiring after a while, it was like 3 issues in a row of her fighting people without much happening.
I'd still like to check out the classic stuff (like the Fang and Knuckles series) just out of curiosity, and I've heard the recent Riders stuff has been a huge improvement compared to some previous arcs. I know Daniel Barnes is returning to the book soon, and I LOVED Scrapnik Island, so I'd love to see how he follows that up.
I'm not sure how much I'd enjoy the books on a revisit now that my idea of these characters' personalities is so much more refined, but I'm still willing to give them a shot. I've been reading Sonic comics for over ten years, it would feel weird to stop completely.
@@telekinesticman Please don't feel forced to take on something that may not (or may) be worthwhile after putting in the time
Me personally, I think I realized that I matured as a person when I finally allowed myself to let things go and let things be, whatever they were
Nothing horrific will happen to a game, or a series (many things really) if I am not there to witness it in the moment
And maybe, if time permits, I can return to something and appreciate it a bit better
Love and respect friend
I love this game, and it’s probably my favourite 3d sonic game ever, but it’s very undeniable that the boost formula shouldn’t have been the thing that defined sonic in 3d. The fact that there is as many, if not more, boost sonic games then physics based sonic games is pretty weird, especially since the latter is how this series even started in the first place. I love unleashed, but sometimes I think about what would have been if they just evolved the gameplay that they were already working with instead of just throwing it all away for a formula that’s inherently linear and railroaded.
I don’t hate the boost formula, and I don’t even think it needs to be completely abandoned as they can work as spin off games or something, but we need a new formula that’s closer to the originals.
@@Water90435 I agree, I think the boost has its place, but it shouldn't be the primary mode of 3D Sonic.
@@telekinesticman I think that because of 06 Sega started to take less risks.
@@telekinesticmanoh certainly. A ton of people will think up compromise after compromise in order to “fix” the boost, but I genuinely believe that boost games we have like unleashed, shadow gens, and sonic gens to an extent, are the peak of the formula. The boost by its nature is railroaded, linear and restrictive.
The whole point of it is to basically press a button to watch sonic go down a hallway at Mach 2. It’s shallow, but it also looks cool, which makes sense because one of the reasons why the boost was even made in the first place was to evolve the more cinematic aspect sonic team has always strived for in these games.
Basically, the boost is its own spectacle.
Why should the boost be slowed like it is in dream team, thus losing all of its appeal, just to facilitate a more functional gameplay style for a platformer when we can just forgo the boost entirely and make an actual physics based sonic game again? It just doesn’t make any sense to me. It won’t satisfy the people who want an adventure/classic styled sonic game again, and it won’t satisfy the people who like the boost gameplay either.
"Nothing's been changed since sonic generations" is a line I will agree on, but that statement in itself makes this game's value obvious.
The franchise needed a newer "go-to" modern sonic game for the longest time ever... a game that would be accepted by every kind of sonic fan & newcomers.
For 2D we had sonic mania, but 3D had sonic gens... a game that's a few years older than mania. (which a lot of people seemingly didn't even know much of. Saw some youtubers saying they've played it for the first time alongside shadow gens.) Re-introducing this franchise's 'style' to the world is very important.
Sonic Frontiers did the same thing in a very narrow sense; it re-contextualized the characters. For most of them you can gather these three points: "They were like this", "They're like this now" and "They want to change things this way". And then came shadow gens... with the same thing executed with Shadow. (In frontiers, only Amy was done dirty, but exclusively in the english dub. Her dialouge in the japanese dub was easily superior.)
Re-establishing the gameplay and re-contextualizing the characters can be important in this sense: for whatever they may do in the future, we now will know where it would have to be derived from.
For the longest time, I wanted proof. A proof that a sonic game could be "great" again. More than perfecting the formula in ways that would differ from person to person, I desperately desired that they could go back to "doing great" in any way at all. That's what Shadow Gens is to me.
Before 'perfecting' any formulas for sonic, I want stability more than ever. Enough with the glitchy releases, unpolished games, non-existent stories (looking at you sonic mania, my beloved), etc.
P.S.
If I were to be a selfish boy regards to this franchise, getting a sonic riders remake & a mania-inspired reboot of sonic advanced would be my dream. That alone goes to show how much difference the fans can have when it comes to what's desired for the future i guess, lol.
While I see much of what you've said as ringing true, I have a particular qualm with one of your hopes for the series.
18:39
"Once you know the correct sequence of buttons to press and when to press them, there's no longer any room for improvement. But if you're able to break free of these limitations or play stages that are designed in less binary ways, suddenly the skill ceiling raises exponentionally"
I think this and your general desire to see less restrictive gameplay that keeps flow static is a justified one to have, but it's shortsighted with how it fails to see the value in a playstyle that capitalizes on a more strict ideology. An expressive and high skill ceiling can still exist if the room for optimizing the inputs of actions has numerous supplemental systems to consider when executing them.
As with a sentiment I deeply share with Matthew Matosis, I also heavily encourage experimentation when applicable, I will never say no to trying something new for a game concept, and the same goes for established franchises as long as a title, like the Sonic boost games, retain the same established appeal. Your statement about Helldivers 2 being the next Sonic game applies well here, just tossing out what makes Sonic, Sonic, is not what I want either.
The game mentioned very in passing here, that being Sonic Unwiished, is what I see as the heavily lost potential of the now stagnant level philosophy. I think it works well, and honestly the best out of ANY boost title while it capitalizes upon a strict nature all the railroading these boost games have, but how it keeps players on designated routes still had room to push the mechanics in numerous ways while providing a variety of systems to consider when playing. Actual resource management, quicker executions of sequential moves, way more punishment for bad meter usage, etc.
- Action chains promoted quickly linking moves like light speed dashes, jumping off of springs, grinding on rails, going through boost rings and a few others after hitting an enemy for more meter.
- Rings had a worthwhile purpose with ring level ups expanding the boost bar at certain thresholds, and the bar itself also losing charge whenever sonic lost enough rings or a life, so they weren't just gas for the tank, unlike every other boost game.
- Boost was spent in segments and more committal than any other boost title, alongside boosting being cancelled if sonic grinded against a wall, or resulting in different wall splats as a punishment for mindless usage.
For as solid and even being the top 5 Sonic game Generations is, it had NONE of these engaging systems. All it did bring from Unwiished was the starting boost and drift bonus, which were made worthless. The drift bonus in Gens never gave more than the initial start press of a boost, and the starting boost barely mattered since Generation's boost sonic always started with a full bar for stages anyways.
This is compounded by the fact that the interaction and engagement in Generations fell pretty short of it's ideal mark. Drifting, walljumps, stomps, slides and tricks are either exceedingly uncommon for stage traversal, or the QTE's that just result in people slowly circling the control stick for the ideal amount of boost off of rainbow rings and ramps.
All in all, solid work, It's good to see a game critic on RUclips still put out stuff occasionally, many of the bigger heads like Joseph, Matthew, RZ, Jebtube and a few others have essentially fully retired at this point, so I've found the pool of good, solid game analysis to only become a more parched place.
I don't know how you do it man. Your points, the way you structure them, the writing... you hit the nail on the head EVERY. SINGLE. VIDEO. This was a great review, definitely the best I have seen so far on this game.
11:33 Archie and SATAM have done irreparable damage to the way sonics personality is perceived. The movies while i like them are basically just taking from that sadly hell they even used the robotnik theme from aosth
It's not exactly surprising that an American Sonic film draws from its roots (and generally what's popular at the time) and while I understand the irritation, it doesn't really bother me because I've always liked that version of Sonic more.
I don’t blame Archie & Satam on that. I blame The US Localazation of Sonic done by Sega of America. The people behind The Cartoons & Comics were not involved with Localazazing Sonic to The West and didn’t even know that actually happend. They just thought that their reference material was Sonic.
But yeah, I defiently agree that it’s VERY AWFUL that SO many people don’t actually know The personality of The main character.
So bad in fact that when Sonic is actually in character, they Claim he’s out of character or that it’s bad writing. And when people that do know of What Sonic’s character is like and say that he’s not a jokester and doesn’t see himself as a hero, some people Think you’re INSANE and have No idea What you’re talking about.
And that is just… SO messed up, man.
While I am a Archie fan and do Think you need to Judge something for What it is… Man, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WISH that Sonic Will feel like Sonic-NO, I WISH The REAL Sonic Will come back, since he’s been missing since 14-15 years.
I don’t want him to feel like Sonic. I WANT Sonic to come back. And again, it’s just so messed up. Why do I need to Think about consistent characterazation in SONIC of all things? Like, Why? Why??? Lol.
What did SATAM do to Sonic?
@@Stew91 Sonic the 90s cartoons is much more snarky and obnoxious then JP Sonic. Hes very much an embodiment of 90s "punk cool" culture but thats not really what JP Sonic was. SATAM Sonic was like this but it wasn't nearly as bad as the other shows. Movie sonic borrows more from this version then the game version of sonic
@@themissingbits6375 Not like we've ever had a good frame of reference for the source material. The fact that you have to really dig to find this stuff is a bad sign already. They didn't even TRY to make sure it was well-known.
So the localization team just made shit up because they assumed there wasn't ANY story, and it was just a plotless baby game.
“Even an artificial hedgehog with blood made from the Devil may cry” ok bro 😭
You are and aren’t stuck in the past. You aren’t because that’s truly sonic’s roots, but you are because there are people who just prefer this style of gameplay. The problem with, not just in the case of sonic gameplay, but with sonic in general is that there is truly no “what sonic supposed to be.” Boost formula or momentum, Sally or Amy, accuracy to the games or humans, all of these are contradictory, and yet all exist at the same time. I really don’t know why I made a comment here, but I hope that this video reaches SEGA one way or another. Just letting you know that your opinion is valid and I hope one day we get that perfect sonic game, but also there is no “true sonic,” there is just like or dislike.
You can't have a "perfect" version of anything if everything is a matter of "like and dislike"
In that case, nothing should be considered good or bad. Not all opinions are valid at all.
@@FirstName_LqstName > Not all opinions are valid at all
wdym?
@@SpinyPuffs
Read his comment more than once.
TL;DR - Agree to disagree I suppose. Very well structured critique, just not a huge fan of your approach overall. No hard feelings. Hope you see this :)
I've had a lot of time to think since The Stagnation of 3D Sonic Gameplay, kinda glad you brought up the same points here. I'm happy you were able to enjoy a new Sonic Team game at the very least. Shadow Generations is definitely one of my new favorite 3D Sonic games. It really does feel like a proper evolution of Boost-style gameplay, what Forces should've been, you can say. Certain parts of the Core Gameplay section I find myself agreeing with you on, like the difference between Shadow Gens approach to level design and the approach Unleashed and Sonic Gens used. Honestly, it's a mix of both proactive AND reactive play, and I think that's what makes it so engaging. Hard disagree with you on the fact that Chaos Control stopping the timer is a bad thing, but your idea for a 30 Second Trial does sound insanely fun. I understand that you despise automation in any form, but I would've liked to see you offer a workaround. For me, finding ways to circumvent the automation can be its own fun, even you showcase this through your footage. Also, you say that spear-gliding (or even the quick dash, which you didn't even mention) is an unintended mechanic. If that's so, what was stopping them from having it stop your horizontal momentum arbitrarily? I do agree that they should've brought back the jump physics from Sonic Gens at the very least.
That being said, I wouldn't say I enjoy your videos. They're presented in an objective, authoritative manner, in spite of being from your own perspective, and that doesn't sit right with me. They do leave a little room for open dialogue about the subject, but for the most part, it's people who already agree with you. I still don't agree with your perspective on 3D Sonic wholeheartedly, even if I end up agreeing with you on very minor things. Heck, in certain cases I realize something myself based on your observations. What turns me off is how his preferences and alternatives are presented as inherently ideal. For Boost-style games specifically, It's clear that proactive play is your preference, and that's fine. However, reactive Boost gameplay can be fun and rewarding in it's own right. Comments by @RaiginAnimator and @brycebitetti1402 made here both brought up the point that "learning the correct sequences of button presses through trial and error (and in this case also finding shortcuts) to craft a "perfect run"" is the whole appeal, which is a perspective I understand and agree with more (showing my biases here haha). A reply to that said a friend of theirs compared the appeal of the Boost to a rhythm game and I find that perspective intriguing because I can see where that perspective can come from as well. Even J's Reviews, IIRC, also recognized this point up in his 3D Sonic Level Ranking video. There's certainly more depth to the Boost than Temple Run (no hate to your friend, of course, it is kinda strange you used his words as ammo for your points said here). Even still, the *type* of 3D Sonic game you want to see officially isn't even something I'm opposed to. If The Final Horizon in Frontiers is anything to go by, it might very well be possible, but that's me being optimistic. I can see the validity of a "proper" 3D Sonic game that plays like SRB2 or Sonic Utopia, but there's also validity in Boost gameplay as well.
I can respect your work as a professional artist and as a non-professional game critic, but I'm just not a fan personally. At the very least, you helped me to sharpen my critical thinking skills. Maybe you'll write me off as another hater, and I'll be OK with that. I just wanted to be respectful about it instead of being an asshole, going "This SUCKS and YOU SUCK and **YOU SHOULD DIE!**" I might even check out some of the recommended games you put in the description eventually.
@@SpinyPuffs honestly, this whole comment sums up my feelings for this and a lot more of his Sonic critiques entirely. Don’t get me wrong, I’m subscribed to the guy and I thoroughly enjoyed his “Stop Making Jurassic Park Movies”, and I do agree with some of his critiques, but I always find myself disagreeing more often than not. Like how you agreed with previous comments you mentioned here.
I feel like he’s just slightly pompous when bringing up or comparing games with the one (or more) he is talking about in the current video. Bringing up his friend (no hate to him, he’s entitled to his opinion) to vindicate his point is truthfully an example of extrapolation simply by close association. He has good points on some of the design aspects of Shadow gens, but I also saw some other good points about shadow gens made by other gamer/sonic tubers that count points his critiques. Flexing his game design contribution, while cool and sleek, doesn’t really hold up to me considering that lighting in games is only aesthetic to games and, imo, not entirely crucial to gameplay unless it’s a mechanic or a gimmick in games. This mindset also seems like a AAA mentality, as I speak only on a AA scale, some games lighting can be completely inadequate but if the gameplay is fun than I’m fine with that.
I’m not gonna defend the cynical greed of companies either but I’d rather he’d be in the interest in being sympathetic towards the people that actually make the games, i.e. Sonic Team, than more often than not lampoon (that might seem like a strong word but it’s the best I can come up with) them for weird albeit minor gameplay functionality. I say this because he must feel the pressure of being pressured to release a game on it’s scheduled time as well.
This is by no means in bad faith, again, I agree with him on certain points and not so a lot more on others, at least only when it comes to sonic games. I feel as if he hasn’t really given the earlier 3D and boost games their full credit. Good video overall just agree to disagree. @TelekinesticMan if you if your reading this, I’m doing this out of love not hate, I never watched the JW films, don’t plan to, only watched TLW and JP3 (yeah not as good as the first but it’s like picking poison to a gun, the JW films being poison and I’d choose the gun any day) love your vids and keep up the good work and hustle. ;)
@@firemonkey6512 glad you got something out of my words. IMO, he writes and talks with a lot of conviction, especially with his choice of words and tone of voice, which is probably why he hasn't given those games credit where it's due. I think it's a little hard for someone not to go "oh wow, I've never thought of that before" and have your entire view on Sonic shattered and hereafter influenced by his observations, the same way he was likely influenced by shoogles (Sonic Spitball). What turns me off is how his preferences and alternatives are presented as inherently right (again probably tone of voice), as if it's what Sonic Team SHOULD strive for and continue to strive for. I can see the validity of a "proper" 3D Sonic game that plays like SRB2 (honestly I'd prefer one to come out just to see what he'd say about it), but at the same time there's validity to the Boost as well, but I don't think we'll see that proverbial olive branch extended anytime soon.
@@SpinyPuffs 100% agree, not a fan of youtube channels that present opinions in this manner, and not because hes "negative about sonic"
@SpinyPuffs Man, I couldn't agree more with you. I feel the exact same way.
This isn’t directly related to the video itself, but I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your content. It has helped me view many Sonic games, which I’m very positive about, in a new light. Regardless of how different opinions can be or what the general expectations for Sonic games are, I’ve started noticing issues I hadn’t considered before watching your content. It’s fascinating to analyze different perspectives on the media I consume, even if I don’t always agree with everything. Seeing things from another angle opens a door to new ways of thinking. Thank you for that, your content has been some of my favorite over the past month.
I agree, even though I'm not the biggest fan of his content.
I think the mid level cutscenes are supposed to be glorified loading screens
There's no way the Switch needs 40 seconds to load the next part of the movie DLC level.
Again, I don't despise the shorter cutscenes. The Sunset Heights one with the Death Egg robots is a good example. But anything over 10 seconds is really pushing it.
@ yeah definitely the dlc was pushing it with the mid level cutscenes
@@telekinesticman the chaos island volcano explosion was perfect as well
9:15 This is the best line anyone has ever heard. Ever.
Gotta say, your content inspires me to think critically about a lot of media I enjoy. I tend to brush off and accept things very mindlessly, not giving a second thought to things like characterization or level design. I’m not a game designer sure, but I want to have an eye for this sort of thing.
@@teryliuhoo5989 that's exactly what I want people to take away from my videos. Thank you!
@@telekinesticman youre welcome! I'd love to see a video like this detailing your ideal 3d Sonic game, like Sonic Spitball Part 3.
@@teryliuhoo5989 I think if I were to do something like that, I'd have to go the extra mile and actually make a prototype in Unreal to show what I'm talking about. I use Unreal every day for my job, but for film/animation stuff, not games, so I don't actually know how to make a game 😞 Maybe one day
it’s really not my kind of Sonic game so I don’t think I’ll buy it until there’s a decent sale on it, but everytime I see footage I have to gush about how good the animation in the cutscenes are.
went from the absolute bottom of the barrel for 2 decades to almost as good as the best in its class. if nothing else, I hope this is atleast something that sticks going forward. makes these games so much more interesting to look at. now if they could just translate this to the in-gameplay movements.
...if it helps, I didn't buy this either. I used Steam Family Share again, because I wasn't sure if I'd like the game. I almost bought it afterwards, but I still don't quite feel it's worth the price. If it was cheaper and just had the new Shadow stuff, I would have gotten it. I don't need a "remaster" of a game I already own on the same platform.
I felt the same way till I got it on black Friday for $36 and I'll say it was a pretty good time and I'm glad I waited to get it somewhat on sale
@@telekinesticman that’s part of it for me, too. the Shadow part looks fine enough, but I already have Sonic Gens, so it’s just not worth it
something i think that should be brought up is why the games are designed the way they are, because there is a reason.
the direction you want the series to go introduces a skill floor, something that sega has been trying HARD to avoid after the adventure games. you can see many people who aren't sonic fans try to play SA2 and constantly fail at it (thinking of Deebeegeek's SA2 clips), which is why the games have been slowly getting more and more automated. adventure games may be beloved by fans but theres a reason why general audiences don't favor them nowdays, and making the game more momentum based would be reintroducing this and arguably making it worse. the reason games like spark or rascal can do it is because they have a VERY niche audience who are naturally pulled towards the game because they are looking for a game that plays like this, while sonic games try to appeal for a general audience.
im not saying i dont want a sonic game thats momentum based, just that a compromise needs to be found that makes the game accessible the way the current design does
Given it has its own segment in the video, there was a huge missed opportunity to include the ‘Sonic X’ part in ‘Sonic X Shadow Generations’ in the video title or somethin’. I mean, the title wouldn’t even be misleading either if it was like that!!
Good vid tho
I considered it, but I didn't want to confuse people. I don't talk about the Sonic Gens side of the game much at all, so if I called the video "Sonic X Shadow Generations" (or even "Sonic X, Shadow Generations") it might be weird for me to not actually talk about Sonic Gens.
23:30 those stuff are mostly rarities that even happen to me in forces and even then in my playtime doesn't happen often
Thank you for actually criticizing the flaws of this game. no one ever talks about the chaos control issue with time attack in depth, except for pariah.
As a huge Sonic Robo Blast 2 enjoyer, I still found a lot to like about Shadow Generations despite some of the more automated levels, but I have to agree with many of your takes on the game's continued use of Modern Sonicsms. Unsurprisingly the best levels in my opinion are Kingdom Valley and Chaos Island because neither contain the incredibly linear and automated Black Doom set pieces. I will say I think you undersell the fun behind the Doom Powers a little, especially the Doom Wings which are meant to be an endgame equivalent to Super Sonic, making the levels intentionally easy to skip by flying through them while also being immune to damage.
It’s unfair how good your writing is
Sonic movie 3 (ik prolly most of you are not into it, but I am one of them)
This of your critique on Shadow Gens
And then Pariah's theoretical Sonic Riders story
Man I am EATING this week
Every day is a good one when a new Telekinestic video comes out
I find it hilarious, that so many sonic fans claim that every 3d Mario game is the same, and yet pretend that 3d sonic titles have been "stepping in the right direction" bro, homing attack is the worst its ever been. Grinding hasn't been engaging since sa2, be real. Instead of building off of the drift mechanic, it got worse in frontiers and forces. And we're still getting the most enjoyment out of 3d sonic, by not interacting with most of the level design😂nothing beyond the surface has truly changed.
Every 3d Mario game is unique from one other. You're not playing odyssey Mario the same way in galaxy or sunshine. It's impossible. I wonder which franchise is actually stagnating?🤔
Some Sonic fans need to stop glazing sonic games for like two seconds, and think logically for once. 3d sonic has been this way, ever since the precious adventure titles came out man. The stagnation just didn't happen yet, because they were so fresh at the time. Nobody can tell me otherwise. The majority of hard-core sonic fans enjoy the adventure titles the most, by skipping loops, springs, etc. why? because they slow their gameplay down. You don't need to be a professional speed runner, to do those things, at a basic level. Shadow gens ain't different. Same goes for sonics other 3d outings. I would know😅
If anyone somehow thinks that literally every single 3d Mario game is the exact same thing, and is stagnating like 3d sonic? then they ain't played a single 3d Mario game. Period.
So JP Sonic X is now your reference for "the true spirit of Sonic", huh? Sure… IF you're only taking about Sonic himself. The '90s games, in Japanese OR English (not the English manuals-you are indeed right on that front; even if English is the canon primary in-world language, the Japanese writing is closest to the intended meaning), actually let Sonic's allies share in that spirit, and Adventure 1 was strongly suggesting them eventually coming into their own as "fast friends to everyone". Sonic isn't just inspiring everyone to keep their hope alive, but to see who among them can literally as well as figuratively follow his lead… with Tails especially having the potential to surpass it. The JP 16-bit Sonic 2 manual story and Tails profile very strongly imply that Tails could indeed become the head one day. He already had the potential and the determination; he just needed experience and the safety net that his partnership with Sonic could provide considering that his own heroic talent would be badly needed while he was still a young kid. That's why Adventure 2 literally doubling down on what made Adventure 1 _different from_ the 2D Sonics apart from the standard adaptations to 3D was the wrong move, both in story and gameplay. Adventure 1 could deviate the ways it did because the story it told that way made sense to the series's past then. Adventure 2's story did NOT. But it wasn't meant to, either; Shiro Maekawa himself had admitted he didn't like how Sonic used to be prior to Adventure 1, which explains why Adventure 2's story only really aligns with selected bits of past Sonic and even outright contradicts others. But that's obviously no excuse to just go off and betray a (largely) beloved past like that for new, diminished versions of old characters to get used to. What's really needed for Sonic is to evolve and build on the old, bringing it up to date, instead of treating it like a mere failsafe against the Rad And New™ flopping. Just because something is an anchor doesn't mean it's only good to keep something trapped, and refusal to return to something is also a trap.
As for Shadow Generations itself, I admit not having played it yet as I want to specifically get a used copy for the Switch-I'm skeptical about whether Sega's really returning Sonic to form or not; more on that later-but from all I know it seems like basically a one-character Boost version of Heroes in terms of gameplay. It REALLY sounds like you're not a fan of forced midstage combat in Sonic, but we're dealing with SUPERHEROES here. If Sonic and company don't literally fight, what's their point? Plus optimizing fights is its own form of speed, as is optimizing transitioning in and out of them. Obviously, 3D plays better into this as it allows for a more free-moving jump-'n'-beat-'em-up approach-Sonic of Rage & Bare Knuckles: Now With 100% Less Final Fight Asset Theft-but it can be made to work in 2D as well. I'll have to see myself how ShadowG pulls it and everything else off, though Doom Blast basically being a cinematic move does sound like a big miss.
And that's a nice segue into the topic of "gimmick moves" and move relevance in general. I certainly hear you on that; Sonic's Light Dash started as one, and they're all over other sorts of games, most notably many with some sort of grapple-and-swing mechanic dependent on specific objects keyed to be grappleable. But even they can be strategized around if done with enough looseness; when you can use them, is it always better? Are some approaches to using them better than others? It's always faster to use the Spin Dash in Adventure 1, but future Sonic games ditch the charge time, which could force you to ask: stay on a slower run to keep your momentum for when you can't LD, or LD really fast to an immediate stop and count on increased control/other moves right afterward to make up for that? OfC, this works best when you can LD to ANY ring within appropriate reach, not just predesignated ring trails. Similarly, Metroid II and Super Metroid have some looseness with which you can use the Spider Ball and Grapple Beam respectively, but Metroid Prime has hardly any. On the other hand, even more freely useable moves can suck. This is the case for Superstars's Emerald powers. Exactly what use do they have to help someone get better times in that game? Sure, they're good beginner helps, but many beginners aren't even going to be able to get them, so they'd better provide a lot more, and they don't.
Back to ShadowG specifically, Shadow's line in Dark Beginnings referring to "that life" didn't mean his own past on the Ark as that was as full of torment as it was joy, if not more so-not exactly something to be nostalgic for. Rather, he was referencing the source of what joy there was: _Maria herself._ "Life" as in a living being, not a lifestyle, like what reports of "lives lost" mean. He certainly wishes Maria were still alive, but he also knows that such mere wishing isn't doing him or Maria any favors. It isn't that he "doesn't need Maria anymore", but rather that he simply needs to discard hopes of bringing her back lest they turn his care and gratitude for her from booster to burden. Like the actual shuttle booster, she'd literally become dead weight, no longer capable of direct help. Even so, so much of Shadow's identity is tied to his past to the point where he can't neatly integrate with Sonic and Co., so his story potential may have reached its limit anyway. Which is regretful because he'd only ever saved the world from those dependent on him for their own plans and who indeed got stronger from using him-in other words, HE's his own villain.
Which is a good lead-in to the big point I'd *ahem* foreshadowed: the possible real reason why this particular decade of Sonic is so slow and devoid of truly new content. There's clearly a whole metanarrative about the series having lost its way going on throughout what new there is; in Frontiers, Murder of STH, ShadowG… Hell, even Prime was one big allegory for that with Nine's whole deal. My belief, or at least my hope, is that, combined with the movies bringing on new fans, this is all leading up to a big, badly needed franchise-wide reset. We'd had in-fiction resets before, not just with Adventure 2 and Prime, but '06 and the comics with the Genesis Wave. So it's quite plausible. They may have to spend time getting everyone on board, not just for those people's sake, but also Yuji Naka's if they want to bring him back since he may have to pass his probation first unlike Naoto Ohshima who was able to work with Sega again all but right away after Balan Wonderworld got sent out to die. It also seems like the REAL devil behind ruining Sonic's direction was Toshihiro Nagoshi, a Sega veteran who isn't exactly a big fan of younger kids and in particular Nintendo. It was likely him that wanted Sega to outright crush Nintendo instead of sportingly competing with them, thus Sonic was marketed differently in the East and West; its cute side would be used to try to pull Japanese kids away from their Famicoms while its edgy side would play to teens in Western markets "growing out of" the NES but lacking the scratch for a decent gaming PC. Sonic was little more than a tool to Nagoshi; a means to conquering the market. Good thing he's gone from Sega now. But even if he was the top toxin, there may be others in Sega poisoning the Sonic well. Sonic has always been a "special case" to Sega, so their actions will have to speak before my money does.
(Also, this game is in no way meant to reference the Sonic X anime: the "×" in "Sonic × Shadow Generations" is actually a _cross_ meant to say that this is an intermingling of Sonic Generations and Shadow Generations. It's much like Street Fighter × Tekken, which the announcer actually reads as "Street Fighter Cross Tekken". While "Sonic X" all by itself is indeed "Sonic Ex". Just as with Mega Man X. But the cross in "Sonic × Shadow Generations" is silent, as it is in "Hunter × Hunter". But sometimes an actual X is used yet still meant to be read as "Cross", as in Project X Zone and Xenoblade (Chronicles) X. All on top of X being ALSO used as the Roman numeral for ten. And it's "Mega Man Ex-2" but "Dancemania Twelve" even though both are written with "X2". The Japanese treat even foreign symbols, not just kanji, as being capable of having multiple readings like that. Of course, kanji themselves are technically foreign, being taken from Chinese. Still, yes, the Japanese are being abusive as all f==k to the Latin script. But since when have they ever cared about how we read "their" stuff? Oi…)
another banger pop off queen 🙏
The stagnation of 3D sonic gameplay video opened my eyes to the idea of momentum in sonic games. Since Colors was my first exposure to sonic I don’t mind the boost formula, but when I explored the classics much later I realized how great the movement of momentum based physics can feel. I especially realized this when I stumbled upon a 3D sonic fan game from 2012 called Green Hill Paradise Act 2 where using the terrain was the optimal way to build up speed. It felt great to spin dash down a huge slope and launch off a ramp to get insane air or break through a door to access a hidden area using your speed. I’m down for more boost games with shadow generations level design but I’d also love for sonic team to attempt this approach at some point.
9:18 DONT THINK NONE OF US CAUGHT THAT
9:18 *dies from peak writing*
Great critique and nice shoutout to SRB2
thanks for the shady knight recommendation
11:22 - I mean, yeah? The original Japanese version always has better writing. Literally the only dialogue that was better in the localized SA2 was Eggman talking out loud to himself in one of the earlier cutscenes instead of giving exposition to no one.
18:44 this perfectly sums up my problem with Unleashed better than I could possibly articulate it, I feel very vindicated
9:19 that was some Ian Flynn writing right there
Yh whilst stagnation is always gonna be a conversation point when talking about shadow generations, this is an add on for a gens rerelease the gameplay had to be at least close to gens otherwise the package would’ve been really jarring for casuals. I feel like a lot of your critiques for this game are there because st had to make the game feel like a generations game for them to justify them being release together. So for what is I can’t bring myself to actually critique them for stagnation
I believe Sonic X Shadow Generations is a wonderful package,but it was kind of a missed opportunity to have Shadow Generations be made with Hedgehog Engine 1 like Sonic Generations and reuse that game's framework like how Bowser's Fury uses 3D World's framework.
Sonic Generations still feels the most polished and carefully designed 3D Sonic game even if Shadow Generations does get closer than the past outings we've had,and it would just make both games more coherent with one another and prevent a jarring graphical change.
Yeah! You flex that movie credit! You deserve it! Critiquing a game while presenting alternatives and fixes is the way to go, in my opinion and making it clear that you know what you're talking about just sweetens the deal. Always a treat to see your perspective on Sonic projects.
glazing yourself for the fact you were in a big production only to shit on hardworking developers is not the way to go because it's extremely unprofessional
I really like it when intelligent people discover the freedom planet games instead of surface level comparisons
the music not restarting after a reset is in my opinion not what i wanted. it kinda breakes my immersion a little bit
i interpret shadow leaving the past behind him a lot less literally,
in shadow 2005
the book is closed there are no more mysteries about his past
it’s no longer the driving force
of his narrative, and letting go and moving on is the goal, but you can’t just walk away from something like that
the love doesn’t disappear
the hurt doesn’t disappear
it doesn’t work like that,
even if you move on and continue to grow
the love and hurt will always be a part of you, you can’t turn it off, and even so shadow 05 was an unsatisfactory bookend too,
in my eyes at least, shadow generations tries to right the wrongs and give second chances to aspects of the series,
we got to see disappointing levels like kingdom valley, sunset heights and chaos island reimagined showcasing the potential they could’ve been
and more importantly
now instead of ignoring his past truma’s shadow actually gets closure and a goodbye to gerald and maria and comes out of it a stronger person and i quite like that a lot.
shadow generations tries
the game of second chances
you thought you was slick with that devil may cry line. it was subtle.
It absolutely was NOT subtle haha, it was a deliberate quote from Devil May Cry 3 because I noticed a lot of thematic similarities between that and Shadow Gens. But if you didn't know what "Devil May Cry" is, it probably wouldn't stick out too much, which is good.
Slight objection - Shadow didn’t “turn back” - he was sent back by Black Doom. Tackling old foes with his new found “never turn back” attitude best seen in how pitiful he now finds Metal Overlord’s priorities.
But yeah new levels please Sega you can do it
@@Scroteydada From an in-universe level, yeah, kind of. But Shadow is a fictional character at the mercy of his creators. They *chose* to make him revisit his past again. They didn't have to do that. As I said in the video, I don't think his attitude towards his past is very consistent in this game, either. It really seems like he's still actively thinking about Maria even before meeting her again.
@@telekinesticman Shadow was never supposed to stop thinking about Maria. It was already established in sources like Fast Friends or Channel that Shadow doesn't care for mankind but still protects the world since he values Maria's opinions.
That sounds like another 2010s/2020s Sonic retcon to me. Shadow never mentioned Maria after Shadow '05. It seemed pretty clear to me in Sonic 06 that he really had moved on.
@@telekinesticman It wasn't a retcon. Mephiles' plan with Shadow was to use his stance on mankind (he doesn't care for them) to manipulate him into helping Mephiles kill everyone. Shadow doesn't ever deny that G.U.N. or mankind would turn on him one day just that he'll fight them. Shadow wouldn't still lack trust or fondness towards mankind unless he still thought about Maria with what happened to her
Just a question:. Have you watched Sonic the hedgehog 3 the movie? If you did you may enjoy it and you could get some good characters
I don't like the movies. I may have "seen" it last night in a way that doesn't involve giving Paramount my money, and I wasn't impressed. Same problems as the last two, but at least it was a tiny bit more "Sonic-y". Honestly the characterisation is just so radically different that it loses all appeal to me as an adaptation.
I'm a Sonic fan, I want to see *Sonic* in the Sonic movie. But that thing isn't Sonic.
@@telekinesticman Oh I understand what you mean I think that Sonic 1 and The knuckles show were kinda horrible because it didn't have much of the characters there but I think sonic the hedgehog 2 and sonic the hedgehog 3 were great
9:18 say that again....
23:08 wow a glitch that you caused that doesn't really hurts the gameplay.... Yey
Still, it looks bad and it shouldn't be there, they are kind of like car crashes I guess... Look at them once and you can't look away or not acknowledge their existence. Not hating Frontiers, it would just be utlimately better without them, right? I'm just saying you shouldn't be able to cause this glitch in the first place, kind of like the floating parry thing.
@Leon-ir3gm yeah It looks bad but man, people act like its the end of the world when stuff like this happened to me in infamous and i still had a good time, like i'm not againts polish games, but a little bit of jank and people act like (this Broken) gets a little exagerated for me
19:20 wow look my favourite level to speedrun with the doom wing and ignoring why this also is good when you keep replaying.... Nice
Where do you think the likelihood of Sega/Sonic Team commissioning external development studios to create 3d platformers in series? If so, do you think a title akin to Sonic Robo-Blast 2, or any other fan work of this cloth would ever see the light of day? (Sorry about the basic questions.)
@@safeenentertainment8566 I don't see that happening any time soon. I feel like Sonic Mania was the exception to the rule and they probably want more internal control over their own 3D games, but that's just speculation.
I think two words can define what you want a 3D Sonic game to be by learning from its origins: *Simply Complex*
However, that does mean limiting the open ended approach for the general audience who aren’t that big in Sonic’s gameplay. Not many are a fan of his gameplay as appose to Mario’s more simple gameplay that has a lot of complex elements imbedded in other ways. When trying to stick that balance is where Sonic Team feels is much easier to do what they have done already, which also attracts more people. It’s not so much his gameplay sucks, but they rather have it simple.
But I’m right there with you in I hope the last “Boost” game that refines what Shadow has done, sets it on the shelf for a while. I don’t hate Boost, but Open Zone isn’t really a replacement in regard to what Adventure/Unleashed did years back. In essence, Open Zone is just another way of saying Hub World Level…which isn’t exactly new to games.
A little offtopic, but i kinda detest these "Sonic Team has the last chance" shoice of words in these speeches at this point. Like it's okay to have grievances and communicate it to people, but if your interest in something depends only on action of someone, with which you can't meaningfully interact, why even bother at this point.
Fair enough, I was just trying to communicate that as much as I want them to move on from the boost, I wouldn't be against one last game *if* they fix all the other remaining problems from Shadow Gens.
14:18 One of us. ONE of us. ONE OF us. ONE OF US. ONE OF US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No
Yes.
@@___8241 New made by RUclipsr yikes
i'm glad you atleast got some enjoyment from sonic X shadow generations...but i wonder 14:33 what do you think about idw's characterizations for the sonic characters such as sonic,amy,tails,knuckles,shadow(urban warfare) etc? do you think their potrayal is good and how they should be more or less or not?
but i can tell you like sonic X's characterization more.
Excellent video, while this is the first Sonic Team game I really enjoyed since Generations (funny, the only game that compared to Gens 13 years later is... Gens again) I still agreed with most of your points especially regarding the originality and new direction one. It's very annoying that relying on the past is not just taking old levels now but stories and character arcs even. Again I love the game but I can't think of it as anything more than a Generations DLC, which is what we should've got back in the day instead of that Casino DLC, and I think Sonic deserves way more than that, and nobody should be mad by someone wanting more and for the franchise to be better.
Doom Blast is my favorite of all ability but I do agree that It's heavily restrictive, and with a few changes it could be way more dynamic, like letting you change your direction / aiming with the camera instead of being forced to this specific location and Shadow is looking at, being able to shoot it anywhere instead of just two pre-determined points and finally letting it be used on all enemies instead of just the Doom ones.
All of all the abilities the surf one is so mind boggling to me, It's literally just a nerfed boosting on water which Sonic can already do much better, which feels weird for Shadow to have the weaker counterpart.
Excellent video as always, I didn't really feel the long length, which is a good sign.
Oh BTW was 9:18 intentional? Lol
I cannot envision a situation where that DMC name drop couldn't be intentional, haha. I just noticed the similar themes of not letting your dark heritage define you. Shadow may be a "devil", but he still has real feelings. He also literally cries at the end, so it all came together nicely. I thought it was a funny line but it also made a point.
18:20 why should you care if your time is different than everyone else? You're time attacking these stages to have fun, not to compete with others
Sure, but I enjoy seeing other people's times and seeing what I can do to improve my own runs. When everyone else's times are completely different to mine because of modding, I can't do that comparison anymore.
That's my issue with Chaos Control, too. I'll see speedruns with lower times than mine, but then I watch the video and see they've actually spent much longer in the stage than I have, in real-time. So I lose that ability to compare my runs against others to see what I can do better.
Competition is a natural part of arcade game design and what time attack and scoring/rating are based on.
Game-ifying self improvement is what makes games stand out as an artistic medium and has always been a major appeal to Sonic games.
Competition and the desire to improve are fundamental human desires that go hand in hand and which games have always tapped into since their inception.
Expecting a SEGA game, of all places, to do better in this regard is one of the most appropriate criticisms in this whole fucking video.
You guys are right. I've never really compared my time to anyone else because I could only compare it to speedrunners, and those guys clip through walls to get their best times. So time has never really been that important to me. For me, it's how fast I go during gameplay, it's about the flow I get from time attacking rather than the end result. Like I'll see gameplay from someone doing a cool skip and I'll say "woah, I have to incorpirate that to my runs". The reason I love time attacking is not because of the time, it's because it's faster and more satisfying than playing it casually.
Another thing I'd like to say is about the time freeze for chaos control. It's terrible, I hope they remove it in a future patch
The game's abandoned.
40:05 what about sonic 3D blast saturn special stages and sonic dream team somewhat?
I'm not really sure why you brought up SRB2 in this video. You're not gonna be winning anybody on your opinions by comparisons between Shadow Gens and SRB2, since it seems to me that at least more than half the fanbase doesn't like SRB2 due to its clunkiness.
But I agree, especially with chaos spear and launching enemies in specific areas. Those are binary rather than open, and I don't really agree with everyone else that these are perfect additions to the game. You shouldn't be forced to go through any area in a specific way, you should have options. A single move should have multiple uses.
Better example is Shadow in P-06. Chaos spear has SO many uses in that game.
1. Stun enemies
2. When upgraded does damage to enemies
3. In uninhibited mode can one-shot all enemies
4. Increase your height 3 times
5. Stay suspended in the air to avoid touching the ground to maintain combos
6. Refreshing homing attack/chaos snap increasing your range
I thoroughly disagree with your criticisms of Shadow's character here. Any other time I'd probably feel the same, that Shadow's "never turn back but not really" thing going on in Shadow Generations is just nostalgia bait and/or poor writing, but for as much as people like to give Ian Flynn shit, he knows these characters, he knows Shadow has TRIED to forget about Maria and for the most part has. But when you lose someone, you can say you're "over it" as much as you want, and the pain of that loss does fade over time. But with this game's confirmation that Shadow DOES actually remember his life pre-Shadow the Hedgehog, and he isn't just going off the information others have told him, wouldn't you do and feel the same given these circumstances?
When you dream of someone you lost and in the dream that person is still with you, even if you've moved on, youre still shocked and confused. You're happy to see this person but unsettled because you remember them dying. And as the dream goes on, a sense of dread comes over you when you realize that because this person is alive, you'll have to suffer that grief you've already felt once when they DO die.
It's not inconsistent character writing to see someone you loved and lost alive and well and have that image immediately bring you right back to a place you thought you'd left behind. And his inconsistent reaction to her feels less potent because it's done realistically. He went back through Rail Canyon and Kingdom Valley- which he doesn't even recognize- it's natural for him to go from shock and relief to being unsure if what he's seeing is just another thing from his past or if Maria is actually right in front of him.
41:09
Have you ever thought maybe because they don't want to
i dont get why you're bringing up the momentum stuff in a game that was never going to have it in the first place. like, yeah i love player expression and i love the momentum stuff, and i dont think its odd you cant air boost after certain things, but i feel like you're critiquing the game at points about things that it feels like it never even attempted to do
*do think it's odd
I brought up all those points to solidify how this is more of the same. I've seen people treat Shadow Gens as this huge leap forward, but it's really not. It's the same stuff we've been getting for years, just done better.
Then it's still a bad game?
Maybe it's because we never should have gotten a playstyle so shallow and braindead in the first place, and they should have just hired people who know what Sonic actually is.
tbh i don't mind 2d sections in modern boost sonic levels. But it is only if it's through how Unleashed did it, where the 2d sections are still feeling thrilling and reactive. They get boring when it hits Sonic Colors territory imo
ever since i played shadow generations, i noticed that the levels weren’t as replayable as sonic generations’ levels. for so long i had no idea why, until you posted this video. there are the exact critiques that i also see for the game, i hope one day we’ll get back to sonic unleash’s boost style.
Could I try recommending this online to sega I really want to see what happens if I @ed them or something
I'd be honoured to know that anyone who makes these games actually hears what I have to say, but please don't harass them on my behalf. If they end up seeing it somehow, that's great, but I don't want people being annoying about it. I appreciate the thought, though.
27:57 In those 3D sonic games you should be looking for a flow more similar to character action games than normal plataformers or else you won't really like them
8:31... Dude, most of the stages have to do with shadow except for chaos island.
Radical highway is literally his firts level...
He's saying the stages don't effect the actual story since Shadow never acknowledges them with few exceptions in optional npc conversations
True.
My only problem is that Radical Highway shows up 5 whole times, showing it once in Space Colony Ark Act 1 would've been enough honestly. At the point when Radical Highway came around I was already despite the new Wing Ability kind of tired of it since it was teased in 3 from 5 Zones beforehand.
Sure, they have "to do with Shadow" in some vague historical sense, but they don't affect the narrative in any way. Nor do they really offer any real thematic meaning, like how Sonic games usually go from lush natural levels into more industrialised ones as the game progresses. These levels and bosses could be swapped out with any others and the story wouldn't change at all.
@telekinesticman .... Dude biolizard has to do with shadow's past, his prototype.
Metal Sonic a creature without identity, something shadow went through during his identity crisis, mephiles is his literal shadow that tried to manipulate him to destroy the world because he was angry.
I don't think that swapping them would keep the themes of the story the same.
Also they have to do with shadow's story, just as sonic's part of the Game is to reflect both his rivals and important bosses.
The only one i don't see fitting is metal and even then he absorb his data and had interactions with him in rivals, like again.
There is significance to their appearances and why they were chosen.
Its not like generations 3DS where Sonic fights the biolizard even though he fought the final hazard
@@telekinesticman like again, the ark, place of birth, rail canyon is where the identity crisis began, kingdom valley his first meeting with mephiles and sunset heights well he was there, like again.
These have thematic significance. At least the only one i could see changing is rail canyon to final fortress and including a shadow the hedgehog level
Also the only one not fitting is chaos island and maybe It has to do with foreshadowing Who knows
Thanks for bringing up how the game handles it's core themes and messages because that's easily the biggest problem I have with it. For me, it really felt like any message the writers were trying to get across failed miserably and I think in doing so, the characters suffered for it. There's a great story hidden in here somewhere, but it never took advantage of it's own ideas.
Again, the characters still move on, they could gone with more run time but they wanted a short game
@@joaquindiaz3621 The game was just showing the audience what Shadow's actual status quo in the 2010s onward is rather than leaving too much of it in supplemental sources and interviews and podcasts. Shadow protecting the world with Maria's stance behind him and not caring for mankind was already established in sources like Sonic Channel.
@galten7361 well he is still doesn't care about mankind, but he wants to keep the wish and fight for his own reasons
failed miserably is stretching it
@kaobunn because many people like It except for him
I strongly disagree with the Chaos Control take, but its your opinion.
I don't see what would be wrong with having two different timers - a real-time one, and a Chaos Control in-game one. I want to make it through the level as fast as possible, not stop to kill every enemy to farm a meter that artificially reduces my time. That's not really speedrunning, it's more like Score Attack at that point.
@@telekinesticman I can't see the vision, but its okay.
@@telekinesticman you could still boost through enemies, tho.
@@SpinyPuffs Yes, but many enemies are positioned in a way where this is not optimal. If you want to farm Chaos Control meter, you need to slow down and Homing Attack a bunch of random enemies in order to freeze the timer again. You see this in basically every "speedrun" of Shadow Gens that deliberately farms Chaos Control gauge.
Hey telekinestic man when are you gonna talk about p06? Or have you and I forgot?
I don't believe I ever said I would cover P06 directly? I've never planned on doing a dedicated video on it, but I might stream it one day. I don't have much to say about it.