Every time I criticize a new Sonic product, I feel more and more like the critic from Ratatouille. “I don’t like the Sonic series, I love it. If I don’t like the product, I don’t swallow” (meaning I don’t just blindly praise it, but you know what I mean) We can always hope the increase in allotted budget Sonic Team has been given means a more polished experience in on the way, but that won’t stop the higher-ups from forcing out an incomplete project once again just because they feel like it.
@@telekinesticman Even in that movie, the critic loss his job and credibility for giving a honest review. Darn, just like…man. Meanwhile these trolling toxic fans continue to eat any lackluster content that the corporate keeps feeding them, because they think they outweigh the people who do have problems with their brand. And they get ‘rewarded’ for that? That NOT how being a FAN should work!
@@telekinesticman it surprising that even to this day Sega still constantly rushes games preventing them from reaching their true potential. As we can see from some pages from the Sonic Frontiers art book you can see how different the islands look(I know they aren't the full islands but seeing all the pages with them gives me an image of how the full islands would look in 3d) the island that got it the worst was chaos and the one that got it best was surprisingly Ares island.
This person is in so many comment threads on this video (across multiple accounts, I think) repeatedly claiming that anyone who dislikes this game and points out the toxic positivity is somehow creating harassment, or is gatekeeping (???). It's always the people who genuinely just enjoy Frontiers (which is fine!) who feel the need to defend it and claim that actually this is a "both sides" issue, instead of just liking the game and moving on. I won't deny toxic negativity exists as well, and we shouldn't condone that. I certainly don't. But I've yet to see a comprehensive record of events on the same scale as seen in this video of mine about the amount of harassment sent towards people who are just enjoying Frontiers in their own little online space. The reason this video focused on the positive side is because that's all I was seeing in my own personal life. I'm not going to record events that I didn't even know had happened. If these handful of people are going to continue to claim that the other side is just as bad, and that somehow it's the fault of me, Jeb, Yakko, LS Mark etc., then can we see some actual evidence? Additionally, can we get some direct quotes of when *any of us* harassed, gatekept, or performed other generally unsavoury behaviour? People love to throw these accusations around but I have *never* once seen them backed up. Not once. It usually seems that the people who like Frontiers take our opinions of the game's quality, and the *factual evidence* of toxic positivity as some kind of personal attack against them. If you like Frontiers and have never harassed anyone for it, then you have nothing to worry about. This isn't about you. In short, ignore this person. This comment of theirs is one of the far tamer ones to be fair, but trust me, they've left many others across this video making the same complaints, and I'm getting quite sick of it. If you enjoy Frontiers, keep enjoying it, and stop trying to paint yourself as some victim. I hope I've made myself pretty clear.
6:05 "As if his normals have been flipped" So fun fact about that, in the very first pics of the game, the normals in the cyberspace levels were all flipped, so it's a game wide/engine problem, or lack of direction/management in the team
@@telekinesticman static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/9/9a/SonicFrontiersGHZ.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220628152022 More specifically this pic, the normal/shadows on the bright wall left of the badnik look... not good, not natural/normal It was so bad, they actually remade the pic static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/8/86/Sonic-Frontiers-Store-JP-Nintendo.com-Screenshot-VI.png/revision/latest?cb=20220914121938 Make your own judgement though
Thanks for the shout out to my Challenge Matters video. It's a philosophy I've been steadily developing over these years and it's nice to hear it resonate with people. I haven't played sonic frontiers, and likely never will. But it's nice to hear the discussion. Good luck with the video sir.
Thank you so much for watching! I tried not to just repeat your exact points but I also knew that many Sonic fans would have no idea what I was talking about - evidently they don't because currently everyone is getting mad at me because they think I "want Sonic to play like DOOM". Definitely a common response that you've gotten in the past when suggesting things like this for games as well.
I really really appreciate reviews like this. People need to have a healthier relationship with criticism. I had fun with Frontiers. But it actively goes against it's own design philosophy, then leaves us with a confusing mess of a product. Videos like this, help Sonic Team be better. And they are listening
I truly hope they are listening, because we've heard for years that this has been the case, yet we still get bad games. We may get less Sonic games now, but they still come out just as rushed as ever. I desperately want this to change.
Sega has historically burned us with false promises. But we've recently seen some internal shakeups at Sega. Alongside increased budget & development time for Sonic Team. Let's see if these changes finally matter!
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 That's only a valid thing to say when ALL you do is focus on what other people say. If you use criticism to fuel your own strengths and build upon ideas, then that's a great thing
@@MegaMotionCD nope that implies that you need others to get strenght rather then from youre own basically making you a slave to them + that shows that youre not intelligent enough to make good things without criticism shows how weak you are
I remember when one guy in a sonic discord called me a "spoiled brat" because I wanted to see 1 minute footage of cyberspace. This fanbase is simply unbelievable
Pretty cool sign that the final free update for Frontiers is one day away and we still haven't seen anything from it! Remember when they didn't let anyone record footage of the original Frontiers demo, but Mania and Superstars were revealed with gameplay in their trailers and were playable immediately afterwards? Crazy.
@@telekinesticman Come to think of it; yeah that's true. Altho to be fair, Frontiers' updates have been consistently decent *so far* I wouldn't write off the 3rd update *just yet* altho your video certinely helped me remind that at the end of the day frontiers is still a pretty buggy, fundamentaly flawed game that no update could possibely fix.
It's unfortunate that Sonic's history has been so rough that people think it's unfair to compare the lacking quality of his games to other franchises. The "step in the right direction" defense always gets on my nerves, because I don't think it's a good way of evaluating a $60 game in the AAA space. I feel like there's a certain "hostage situation" among the fan base, which I'm hesitant to define as purely SEGA's fault or self-induced by the fans. In the past, SEGA has made vague statements about the sales performance of games like Origins potentially affecting the future of remakes, and I think this general culture in the games industry - that it's "up to the fans" - leads to people being very positive and defensive about games like Frontiers because they're afraid the developers will get sad and not make Sonic games anymore unless they're showered with praise. I've seen comments on my own video defending features like the drab world design by saying "it's a mysterious new world, Sonic's not SUPPOSED to look like he belongs there!" I won't claim complete innocence because of the way I write my critiques and jokes, but it was upsetting to see fans make up things I never said, misrepresent my arguments and tell me I'm not a real Sonic fan (despite loving the character since I was a kid) because I'm critical of a large commercial franchise I only want to see reach its full potential, or because I made comparisons to an indie game as a way to highlight its quality while also showing that Sonic Team can do better. Nice video - and thanks for the mention :)
Absolutely, and thank you for watching! I've already been getting comments and tweets from people saying that I'm not allowed to compare Sonic to Zelda, or DOOM, or Metal Gear Rising...or Bayonetta...or literally anything, it seems. Sonic fans view these comparisons as surface-level because I don't think they understand games as a broader medium. They place Sonic in this isolated little vacuum where it's supposedly impenetrable from criticism. I never said "Sonic should play like DOOM" or "you can stand still in Frontiers therefore it's bad", I just want Sonic to be engaging. Not hard, but engaging. But no, apparently I literally wanted Sonic to be Zelda or whatever, when I was just trying to make a broad point about good games pushing you into their systems. I think the way SEGA's wording weaponises the fanbase isn't great either. I almost mentioned in the video that I feel as if they need to be a little more active in cracking down on this stuff, but I guess it wouldn't look great on them to admit their community is incredibly toxic. It just rubs me the wrong way to know that SEGA's bottom line benefits from the Sonic twitter mob. Although, maybe it doesn't in the long run if Sonic continues to earn such a bad reputation from outside of this community, potentially leading to more casual fans avoiding new games.
@@telekinesticman We have multiple buisness reports (as recent as this month) showing SEGASammy actually profits from the toxic positvity directly, in making Sonic look like such a nice IP that investors should invest in and ignore the Sammy shenegins
@Tessting Who are these sonic fans, if anything I saw people bringing up how GameFreak gets so much slack for "being an indie company" while flaming Sonic Team for the last decade
@Tessting well i have seen a lot of people saying that scarlet and violet are amazing and its just the bad performance, or they even blame the performance on the switch, when S&V are literally a console exclusive game
I’m glad people are realizing how toxic Twitter is and leaving the site. It’s not just a Sonic fan thing, nearly every topic on Twitter will lead to someone getting enraged over dumb shit. They need to touch some grass.
THANK YOU FOR CALLING OUT THE SONIC FANBASE!! People should be allowed express their opinions on a video game and not get bullied by terminally online weirdos. Weather negative or positive, feedback is a good thing in the gaming industry.
Kudos to Sonic fans for defending small independent creators like SEGA and Sonic Team from unfair harassment. These corporations are definitely your friends and totally care about you. Why does it offend people to just want a Sonic game with polish on par with Mario or INDIE level games?
@@squarebegooderlife844you’re probably never been into the sonic fandom, almost anyone complain about the games and no one takes seriously the sonic vs Mario thing (in fact,Mario fans do that WAYYYYY more often)
@@Ermonacodimontagna idk, an indie game called penny's big breakaway just got announced hours ago and I don't think I've seen anything like it. Would be cool if a sonic game went in that direction.
Excellent video, dude! It's such a shame that fanbases have gotten so toxic and defensive that asking a game series you love (or used to love) to do better is seen as an attack on the series by so many fans. Standards are at a seemingly all time low, not just for Sonic.
20:43 I think that Sonic fanboys are still haunted by Ign saying "Sonic was never good" back in 2016 and are now refusing to let anyone have a negative opinion about Sonic on the internet purely out of fear.
@@HOTD108_ basically every reviewer at the tıme basically went on how the series has became shit and every youtuber went along wıth ıt like a echo chamber this was Before 2016 IGN lıke several years before
I have to disagree on the soundtrack front, I think it fits perfectly and has the most "character" in a Sonic soundtrack since 06 and Mania. But calling drum and bass "dubstep" and metalcore "screamo" is just flatout hilarious and a throwback to when I was in high school and everybody decided those were the same thing for some reason
I won't pretend to be a genius of genres I don't like at all, but some of the boss themes do have the typical screamo vocals in them, which is what I was referring to specifically. I don't have an issue with the instrumentation, really. The Cyberspace levels all feature some type of techno focus, and some of them particularly lay on the heavy beat drop sounds of dubstep. I'm not saying you're wrong, you probably have a good point, but I wasn't trying to provide a blanket statement about the genre of every single song on the soundtrack.
@@best_mate456 I don't like the titan fights because they're super jank and don't offer anything engaging gameplay-wise. The music tries to carry them but it's not enough for me.
It really sucks that you have to constantly reiterate "here's what an opinion is", and similar statements. I've followed on Twitter for a bit and at this point I can kind of use your tweets to find immature people to block.
People *still* don't get it, unfortunately. I've had people in these comments telling me that I've stated my opinion as objective fact throughout this video. They simply do not understand basic media literacy.
The player's choice awards was both annoying and hilarious. I remember reading a tweet of someone having a blood spill from the anger they got from sonic losing a popularity contest. Classic sonic fandom.
I feel like the reason why sonic fans act this way is because the franchise has been bashed on for so long they don't wanna hear or see bad things happen to this series. So they go full blown defense mode because they don't wanna see criticism to this series since it's been going on for years.
You did a really good job with this dude. I really hope this feedback will be taken seriously. I enjoy Frontiers both modded and unmodded and I can tell that we might not see to eye on exactly what Sonic should be in some areas, but it really doesn't excuse any of the issues you mentioned. I find the behaviour of the fandom to pretty embarrassing at points since some are just completely unwilling to acknowledge obvious problems. Especially when there is so many of them. I wish more people could realize that you can like something while also being critical of it and knowing that it can be better.
Thank you! I always welcome other opinions and strive for a community where anyone can feel free to express them, even if they're against the majority opinion.
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 If you can watch that whole video and seriously not see any issues you literally have no brain. When people tap your head they hear echoing.
Its acceptance to mediocrity and never wanting to see the games genuinely be daring to even touch basic things that have been with sonic since his first ever game, aka momentum
@@sometf2player752 spamming 10/10s constantly is done to boost the games score so it looks alot better; literally if you read the first part of the sentence you would see that he was complaining about sonic fans who go and spam the game a 10/10, not complaining about sonic fans who like the game. Reading comprehension skills isn’t your best area i see
You have no idea how long I've been waiting to see this one. As someone that actually enjoys the game a decent amount I'm incredibly on board for the people who do not like it or even want to rip it to shreds. I think the criticisms are absolutely deserved especially with fans getting way too defensive over a game which is very clearly lacking in many aspects. Not watching it right now though it's like 1 am for me, this video is a watch later away though, can't to hear your extended thoughts when I get to this 🙏🏾
You know what it is and I just thought about this now, the lack of proper teaching from veteran to newcomer. The experienced devs who used to work on Sonic titles or Sega/Atlus titles in general have left SegaSammy due to mismanagement. BUT, that resulted in the new people who were hired not get to learn from the people who came before them due to one thing or another. So it creates this problem to where you want the games to reach the potential, but they lack the proper teachings and experience they would’ve gotten from the veteran devs. They need proper guidance to know how they can build upon the next project.
I am so glad you use sonic utopia as a point of reference because that's what I was expecting with this game and I'm very disappointed thats not what we got
Utopia was exactly the foundation I wanted to see built upon way back in 2016/2017. I said after Forces came out that "maybe an open world Sonic could work" if it was done like that, or a "Mario 64 style" game. We got something halfway in-between, but it got every single detail wrong. I specifically said in that video I didn't want anymore dash panels or automated loops, complimented by actual rolling physics, and we didn't get any of that stuff. A real shame.
Finally someone critics this game as a game, and not as a sonic game. The standard had been set so low that people praise this game, but imagine if ratchet and clank’s sequel was of this quality, or the new Mario game.
I do feel like many Sonic fans are only able to compare Sonic games to other Sonic games, meaning they get very confused when someone like me comes in and compares it to every other (better) game that's done the same things.
@@telekinesticman our only hope are fan games no joke. I've seen that you like sonic utopia, I suggest you to try project hero, I think you already know about it but just in case...
@@telekinesticman Have you heard of P-06 yet, that fangame has had me thinking about 06 and that fangame. I've been playing and thinking about wayy more esp the game's feel(P-06) and the soundtrack which is one of the best in the series.
@@fashvr9961 You complain about how "people have low standards for Sonic games" and then start talking about how our "only hope" is unfinished proof-of-concept fan games? People can't like this game because Ratchet and Clank exists but you're going ga-ga over a game that will never be made in the first place?
What they did to Tails in this game is soooo sad Not only do they go out of their way to remind you of him being a bitch in previous games, but actually attempt to canonize such an inconsistency as "part of growing up. It's like the usual "characters are allowed to have feelings" argument with no irony. Sonic calling him "little bro" and going on about him growing up only to have him do nothing for what's left of the game makes it worse. Tails is back at square one, just an eternal second banana whose merits are simply not good enough
What I would've loved to see is Sage planting seeds of doubt in Tails' head since Save only relies on numbers and calculations, saying that Sonic will not come out of this one alve. Thus giving Tails a reason to be concerned for Sonic, saying that what if he DOESN'T come back this time? But Sonic replied saying he'll need his friend to get him out. That's it. No mentions of past mistakes, no need to remind him how "grown up" he is, and no need to be a whiny and complaint birch about it. Flynn's to blame too for writing this shit.
Even though I think Sonic Frontiers is a good game, I do like this critique on the game. The issue you highlighted with challenge and level design is my biggest issue with the game. There's essentially no skill ceiling with Sonic Frontiers, no platforming mechanics that separates a good player from a bad player. The best Sonic Frontiers player interacts with the level design the same way that a bad Sonic Frontiers player would, and that's by running on a dash pad or a rail. Meanwhile with games like Super Mario Odyssey and the Sonic Adventure games, while those games were very easy, they had mechanics that could help the player maneuver the level creatively and ultimately be rewarded for it. Sonic Adventure had momentum and Odyssey had Cappy. Sonic Frontiers has no special feature that provides a skill ceiling for players. You just run fast. I think that was overall your best point and I think the shallowness of Frontiers' movement is starting show. I haven't had many reasons to replay it anymore because of the restrict and linear platforming. Also I fully understand your frustration with the fandom. Something I've noticed as a creator is how insecure many Sonic fans are. Especially with Sonic Frontiers. It's hard to critique that game without getting a wave of people dogpiling you. They're afraid of critiquing Sonic, they're afraid of admitting that Sonic may not be one of the best franchises, most importantly they're afraid of someone undermining their favorite franchise. It's just critiques at the end of the day, critiques that doesn't have to affect your enjoyment of the game. I used to be scared of critiquing Sonic, but I've become so desensitized to Sonic fans white knighting over the franchise. I've hit a burned out phase with Sonic and I'm just gonna say my critiques and people who get upset will leave, life's too exhausting to fight Sonic fans. I recommend you keep doing your thing, I think you're a great critic because you explain your stances very well and you don't sugar coat anything. You also seemed to be very educated on what makes a game good to the majority of players so I got respect for that. Great video!
Honestly, after watching this video, I've noticed how much of a toxic sonic fan I was. I especially noticed that, after finishing the mario movie (the new one), I was salty that IT WAS GOOD. I hope I can try stopping myself on hating on other people's opinions more, online AND IRL. I thought you were going to shit on your game with another negative review, but you just stated your opinion about the game. And that's ok, not everyone is going to like the game, and I honestly agree with some... no, most of the gripes you had with it. Godspeed, Telekinetic. And thanks for helping me find my flaw... in a way.
What's really depressing is how, despite people like Hugo Martin laying out id Software's game design philosophy in plain English, that one tweet by DOOM's official account of "you control the buttons you press" is constantly misappropriated by people to excuse game design choices that are directly antithetical to what he was talking about.
There’s some things I disagree with like the music, but comparing Frontiers combat to Platinum Games/DMC combat was the biggest agree I’ve felt watching a Frontiers Review Sonic fans seem to only compare a recent game to other Sonic games, when they should be comparing it to the standard of gaming combat or their peaks, and in that regard, Frontiers is basically at a bottom level in that regard. Doing a fight in DMC, Bayonetta, MGR, Hi-Fi Rush, etc. vs Frontiers isn’t a competition at all, it’s just a massacre in quality
I believe that harsh critique of this game is more important than it’s been for any previous Sonic release before it. Sonic fans have reached a level beyond Pokemon fans of defending mediocre products like their life depends on it. Even if you enjoyed the game (hell, even I enjoyed it a decent amount), it makes me sad that the standard of quality for Sonic games has fallen so low that this game is considered good or even acceptable.
One of the best lessons to learn about being in the Sonic fanbase at all is to know the effects of a blind dogpiling, if it hasn't been made clear to a fan what it is already. Great video.
why do they need to give tiny rocks in the floor collision anyways? couldn't they just have interacted with IK bones instead? I find this game fun but so many of its design desicions are so baffling LOL
At this point, I do think toxic positivity and blind defending are going to ruin the series. Sonic Team is looking for feedback to improve the experience, and most fans basically are blocking them from getting any. How are the games going to improve if they don’t know what to prove upon?
They have improved the game thankfully,it seems they finally understand that automatic platforming is not really fun and try to do something with more room for player expression The game is still junky and lacks any art design,but it gives some hope for the future
@@Banana807The toxic negativity is definitely quieter right now. Any critique on the game has been relegated to smaller RUclips channels. Otherwise you either like a game that’s actively afraid of Sonic’s mechanical identity, or you’re called ungrateful(Whatever that means when you’re paying money for something), impossible to please,(Because a game that needed massive updates to get anywhere close to up to snuff is clearly the best a studio can do.) or toxic because I dunno, that one dude who holds vaguely the same opinion as you did something bad on the internet that’s not actually going to effect anybody
I heard someone on Reddit say that Frontiers has "found a good level of emotion to appeal to appeal to all audiences". Literally HOW, though!? I mean, every character is all like "Woe is me, wah wah wah😭" or "wah, I'm useless, why's everything sooooo sad, boo hoo hoo😭😭😭😭!" Seriously, that sounds more like something that would only appeal to emo people in High school or college instead of all audiences.😒
uhm no you literally interact with them and talk to them thats what counts nothing else sonic is main character thats why he should be only playable not others
I love this game Yeah I said it because I didn’t play a Sonic game for 10 years I knew Forces existed before Boom: Rise of lyric did And playing Frontiers made me realize just how much I missed the Charismatic Sonic is.
You're allowed to like the game dude, lol. Declare it loud and proud! This review is only here to give his personal criticisms, it's not trying to make you feel like your own experiences are invalidated.
Now THIS is a good critique video, it explains every (practically) error and mistake instead of "Game bad", and even as a person who loved this game as much as generations i agree with many gripes you have with the game Imo this game is a perfect BASE for something incredible
I agree with this on paper. In very broad strokes, Frontiers is a solid foundation, but the execution is very poor. If they develop this idea further, I feel as if they need to completely start over in terms of actual game mechanics. Keep the fundamental ideas of exploring large open spaces with Sonic, but do it all from the ground up again, instead of building on top of Forces, which was built on top of Lost World, which was built on top of Generations, etc. Hopefully no super glue next time.
@@telekinesticman yea, if they will do smth like that, the next game could be the best in the series (also waiting for spin dash and playable characters, I think this would be a great test of it here)
(sorry about the long essay in advance lol, there's just a lot i wanted to say) First off, fantastic video as always, absolutely worth the wait. I'm really sick and tired of seeing people get swamped with harassment because these people can't hold their opinions to themselves. It's gotten so much worse recently ranging from petty discourse like quill length, and Utopia vs. Frontiers, to absolutely asinine claims like IF FUCKING PHYSICS BASED MOMENTUM IS ACTUALLY NEEDED, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WAS EVEN AN ARGUMENT IN THE S O N I C FANBASE. It's just gotten way out of hand and people really just defend mediocre decisions as the new norm and if you disagree, you're not a true Sonic fan. Because REAL Sonic fans love EVERYTHING about Sonic, except the classics and Mania apparently, because then that makes you a "classic purist". It's honestly baffling how many threads I see made on people in their own space just talking about something and then get attacked. It's the literal definition of, "I like waffles", "oh so you hate pancakes?" I'm so sorry that you and countless others had to deal with the unacceptable levels of harassment for simply speaking your mind. It's disappointing to see so many settle for less when we can all have and should have so much more for the price tag. I'd say Sonic fans deserve better, but they're behavior proves otherwise. It was also, and still is, very disappointing to see a lot of the larger creators in the community double down and add fuel to the fire, when they simply could've said nothing at all. Instead, they galvanized communities that took it upon themselves to destroy any negative opinions or thoughts and attack everyone who was even just a little critical. If you don't agree with the current general opinion, you're gonna be outcast fast in online Sonic spaces. It's very unwelcoming and ABSOLUTELY full of gatekeeping. It's simply unfair and it's been boiling my blood for months. When Twitter eventually implodes, or when I finally leave it sooner rather than later, I'm staying clear of social media and especially around Sonic spaces, because it's gotten way out of control, and I want nothing to do with it, besides supporting folks like you. I really hope this video gets the attention it deserves, because a large chunk of Sonic fans need to look at their actions and grow up. They need to hear it. I'm grateful for the smaller voices within this community, like yourself, because you all speak from the heart and nothing more. No #SonicSweep or PEAK hype culture or conflict of interest... just honest thoughts and critiques that blossom from genuine love for this character rather than blind and toxic defense of a company that truly only cares about your wallet. Rant aside, I nearly agree on all of your points. This is a very comprehensive and fair critique! Especially for someone like me, who hasn't really played a lot of action heavy games like DMC or Bayo. Well, well, done on that front, I understood everything that you said. This game really DOES feel like a student project at times, and that really disappoints me. I just played Alien Isolation for the very first time recently and to completion, and I wouldn't even have known that the game was developed and published by Sega if their logo wasn't on the product. It was shockingly well made for being under Sega, and especially for a game from 2014. Isolation shows me that Sega DOES have the potential to create genre defining titles, but they choose to cut corners for their mascot and allocate more resources into other franchises and let Sonic dry out with a poor budget and the wrong team. No doubt that Sonic Team is definitely pouring a lot of love and passion into the series, but it only goes so far under poor direction and management. If fans need to teach the director on how to make a Sonic game, clearly that person is not in the right position even if they have the best intentions. I've never seen a media property this mismanaged before, and especially one as prestigious as Sonic the Hedgehog. The past 10 years have been filled with overpriced titles that clearly needed more time in the oven with unnecessary Deluxe Editions, DLC, and bundles for extra greed. And the fact that ANYBODY defends ANY of this is simply frustrating and disappointing because Sega gets the wrong message. Sonic fans will eat anything with him on it up. Personally, Forces was the nail in the coffin for me, but I gave Sonic Team one last shot. I'm not buying the next mainline Sonic game. Here's hoping that the indie scene continues to produce incredible games at a fraction of the price with easily double the content and/or replayability and made by teams that are fairly compensated and aren't crunched to meet ridiculous deadlines. AAA games lately are in a downward spiral and I've lost my trust in them. But one playthrough of a game like Outer Wilds has so much more depth than Sonic Frontiers could even DREAM of. Even games like Pizza Tower, or Celeste, or Hollow Knight, or most other indie hits are way more competent titles than most mainline Sonic games. Sonic fans desperately need to play something other than Sonic. Anyway that's enough of me rambling and ranting. I appreciate you taking the time to read all of what I had to say! (again sorry for the essay lol) Unfortunately I can't attend Sonic Revolution as it's across the country from me and very inconvenient, but I really really hope that you have a fantastic time with your friends! You deserve it, especially after all of the awful attention that was brought your way with the Frontiers pre-release garbage. As always, keep it up with these videos and your content! I love hearing what you have to say and these videos are really really well made and I look forward to whatever you have coming up next. Hopefully it's not Sonic related lol. Have a nice day (:
This happens with just about every sonic game that comes out since after generations. People tried to defend Forces for MONTHS before everyone just gave up and decided it was bad. I’ll even say that I also tried to defend that game just out of desperation of wanting it to be good. I really enjoyed my time with frontiers but could also understand all of its criticisms and I really think it’s time for people to grow up and realize that Sega and Sonic Team aren’t your friends and it’s okay for other people to not enjoy a product or for you to even admit that your favorite series has a lot of problems. Criticism in theory should be a good thing in the long run because if you continue to give a multi million dollar company leeway then they will continue to give you the bare minimum.
I remember people saying that Sonic Forces was a good Sonic game. All these RUclips review videos and clickbait video thumbnails. It took a year or 2 after Forces came out for everyone to agree that Forces sucked. so many "sonic tubers" changing their opinion on the game when they praised it previously. I think Frontiers is in this honeymoon phase now. And one thing I know is no matter the games quality Sonic fans will eat it up. Hell they said Frontiers should have been Game of the Year LOL
Well said! You put it together perfectly. It reminds me of this girl on youtube 15 years ago where she put up hundreds of videos of herself singing to popular music in a low screechy voice. The girl did not have a good voice, she was overweight and she had autism. The point is that this girl was attracting so much attention for the wrong reasons, she got hundreds of comments in her videos of people being completely positive to her, no negative comments as they all felt sorry for her and not one of them had the heart to be honest and tell her that she didn't have a good voice. As a result of this feedback she never thought anything was wrong and continued to make videos of her ''bare minimum'' talent. If someone had been honest with her she might have tried to improve, but out of fear of getting 50 hate replies posted back nobody could be honest and tell her she had a bad voice that would never make it in the music industry and continued to feel sorry for her.
I'm in the camp that neither Colors or Generations deserved their praise at the time, and their success was based SOLELY on satisfying shallow demands.
Amazing video, Frontiers has received praise for simply being not as bad as Forces, but it's clear that the bar is in hell. The only way as a Sonic community can help get better games is to STOP BUYING UNFINISHED, UNPOLISHED, POORLY DESIGNED GAMES! We need to stop settling for "not as bad" and let SEGA and Sonic Team know that our dollar is worth actual good work.
I wish this was in practice, I really do. But the corporations aren’t totally dumb, they know when to let the toxicity drive up their image to consume more products regardless. The toxicity in Sonic is very much encouraged by several parts in the base.
Thats not how it works. If sega sees the decline in sales they won't make better games they will just make less. The reason why the next sonic game is getting a higher budget and manpower because frontiers sold well. If it didn't we would keep getting low budget 60 person games.
That’s not true…at ALL, sonic frontiers is praised because it is genuinely a good game, the open world is fun,the combat is cool and unlike anything we’ve seen in the sonic saga before, the ost is top 3 gaming soundtracks, the story is amazing,the characters seem to have grown up , the bosses are jaw dropping need i say more?
@@Ermonacodimontagna The open world looks generic and they even reused the same environment from the first island for the last two. Frontiers literally looks like they took the Modern Sonic model and stuck it into an unfinished unreal engine world. Not to mention the horrible pop in and random objects that ruin any sort of synergy or momentum. It looks laughably bad, especially for a triple AAA game made by a company like SEGA. If this was any other popular video game franchise like DOOM or Legend of Zelda, people would be relentlessly bashing on them. But the standards for the Sonic series for the average audience has been so low that they’re just used to it. The combat is shallow and has no skill curve, fluidity, or strategy to it. How is it fun when I can hold down a button and spam the same moves? It’s just shallow compared to games with actual good combat like Metal Gear Rising and Bayonetta, which Frontiers is obviously taking inspiration from. Also top 3 OST in video game history? You need to play more video games before making a bold claim like that. The story is just the characters constantly referencing lore and moments from previous games combined with shallow melodrama. By characters “grown up”, you mean awkward performances and voice direction that sounds like a fandub? The bosses may have epic themes but they provide no challenge and are just a spectacle. Also the final boss is just embarrassing. A purple moon with the gameplay of Galaga? How is that epic? Did you just ignore all of the criticisms that TelekinesticMan made or are you too stubborn to admit that Frontiers has a bunch of glaring flaws that make it average at best and frustrating at worst.
@@Ermonacodimontagna The open world is shallow and uninteresting just like the combat, the story isn't good (the writing is), the bosses are nothing more then spectacle in practice they're shallow as hell.
As a diehard Sonic Fan, I will suck up my pride to say that I did try to look past these issues just so me and the fanbase can say "Sonic Team did a good job" and so SEGA can fund Sonic Team with more money, less restrictions and more innovation. Sonic Frontiers was supposed to be a message from SEGA and Sonic Team to the Sonic Community that "We are done messing around. We will deliver high-quality games from this point on", but a few months after release, I heard alot of disheartening news about SEGA pressuring Sonic Team YET AGAIN, by cutting the development team to LESS THAN 60, attempting to release the game A YEAR EARLIER, and _slightly_ loosening Sonic mandates (which are still terrible). Which is, to no surprise, why the Sonic Fandom entered a honeymoon phase when they got a game that was better than Sonic Forces, but STILL can't mark up to AT LEAST Sonic Generations. We just didn't wanna accept that Sonic Frontiers was actually worse than we made it seem, so as to boost Sonic Team's morale. Because we know DAMN WELL this game will decide the future of Sonic, and if it was badly received, then well Sonic is screwed. >Sonic Team wants to make a new Sonic game >SEGA says sure, but you must release it under impossible deadlines and unfair restrictions >Sonic Team makes a mid game because of SEGA's mandates and impossible deadlines killing innovation >Critics say "Sonic has had a bad transition into 3D" for the 9000th time because they have seen this happen WAY too much >Sonic Community blindly looks past all the issues of the game before and a few months after release, until they wake up and realise "wow this game sucks" >New Sonic game gets review bombed to their most HONEST scores. Result: SEGA cuts Sonic Team's funds to work on other games, Sonic Team's reputation gets tarnished again, Sonic community gets EVEN more toxic, and people wonder why Sonic isn't doing so hot. Until SEGA allows Sonic Team to cook, Until Sonic Team finally remember how to make a good game and until the Sonic Community finally get their hands on a PROPER game, the Sonic Cycle will *NEVER* end
@@nerodoesart5886i doubt it at this point because coming from someone who likes frontiers like me, lots of the ideas in frontiers imo are good, but they end up seeming cheap like or bare minimum because it feels like they didnt have the enough budget to keep experimenting or expand upon it more, so its all segas fault yet again, its been like this since sonic 2
I seriously doubt sonic team genuinely decides to do these bare combat system on purpose, it all seems a budget and management issue not a development issue
@sebastianperezboeff985 No, usually the higher ups gives the developers time and money then whatever the director wants to do is what they do. Only if the higher ups agree with their concept and greenlits it. For example, cyberspace controlled poorly is because Morio Kishimoto thought it was a true Sonic experience and changed the physics and feeling of the controls, so players don't cheat, which he said in an interview last year. The open zone level design was a last second decision, he planned to not give the open zone any level design and was going to leave it for cyberspace until someone said it was boring and wasn't fun, then adds it in later on than at the beginning. At the beginning of development, he thought about adding the spindash, but went with the boost then adds it in update 2 instead of being part of the game at the very beginning. He thought the game was long enough being 20-30 hours then saying that Frontiers didn't need difficulty since he considered it padding like most games that challenges the players like KH, FF, Persona, SMT, DMC, Bayonetta, and more. Then makes a extreme difficulty in update 1. He also admits that the inclusion of old levels was his idea and he thought people wanted this since Lost World, so it wasn't entirely Sega's fault for that, but says that he will make all original levels next time. So, yeah it seems more like an issue with the director. You have to know that whatever idea and decisions are not entirely the higher-ups and goes to the director since how the game plays, sounds, looks, etc... That's the director, the higher ups have some involvement of development, but not enough to mess up development unless by other sorts. I'm also not giving Sonic Team and the director a benefit of the doubt for poor decision making even though that's been a thing for years, but I will still say that most of it's issues comes from Sega. I feel that I'm the only one who blames all of them, referring to the director, Sonic Team, and Sega instead of sugarcoating it. I think they need a new director since I think he isn't good and someone could do better possibly. Sonic Team needs some restructuring or moving to Sega of America and getting brighter people. Sega of Japan needs to change entirely since they still have a old mindset and been making issues not only Sonic, but other series like Yakuza. Maybe getting a new business person that treat their developers well and give them enough that they need like Nintendo. I think Sega is the most important than the others I stated. So, I think all three of them needs a change for the better. Also, budget doesn't make it immediately good if you don't have a good team behind it and that can go for animations, TV shows, movies, and games. One punch man season 2 had less budget, but had great animations since they had a legendary director and a 3-5 talented people to help others and carry the team. Breath of the wild had a director and lead game designer that knows what their doing and know what Zelda is suppose to be and was able to take it to a new level that caused Sonic Frontiers to take some inspiration and ideas from, even other franchises did too. There is also evidence of that it depends on who's making the Sonic games. There is this piece of information that I barely hear anyone talk about for Unleashed and Colors. Back in 2010 in a interview little before Sonic Colors' release, Takashi Izuka said that they had 10-12 million dollars in budget for Colors and it was much more than what was given for Unleashed budget meaning that it could be 7-9 million possibly for that game, but who knows. Unleashed looked like it had more time and effort than Colors, which is clear from the in-game animations, cutscenes, and overall scope of it. So, it basically depends on who is directing the games and the talent behind it, which colors had a lot of the Unleashed people except Morio Kishimoto, who was the director for that game and the lead game designer for Secret Rings and Black Knight at that time, which was not received well for the most part. The director for Unleashed helped with making the Hedgehog Engine 1 and attempt to make pixar quality visuals and animations, polish, and sense of Speed for the gameplay, which set the gold standard for the series going forward until now with Frontiers. So that's very telling on the whole development side of things and the director for Unleashed left after it released and is working at Square Enix and doing other things. I don't fully disagree with you that it's Sega's fault, but I do put some blame to the team making the game as well since... Their making the games, not the publisher. Most of the talent is gone, so they only have Morio Kishimoto, who has a quite a bad track record with games varying from being bad, mediocre, or just decent... Nothing more. Most of the talent are working at Capcom, Square Enix, and Nintendo, which are mostly Sega's fault on that, because of it's bad environment for developers and not giving some of them the freedom to do something else, but mostly Sonic Team on making new IPs. The people working there worked on FF, Mario, Zelda, and DMC, so yeah... Sonic Team does not have many talented people, they had some return to Forces, but they had a minor role due to management I believe. So, they didn't lie about Forces having people who worked on Colors and Generations, but most of them were not working on the most important parts of the game like level design, programming, lead game designer, and more.
Regarding fan toxicity I have to say that I've been spending some time in Sonic community servers on Discord and what I've found there are to be some of the worst types of people, not all of them mind you, but some of these individuals lack social graces at best, and empathy at worst. Or rather, they display empathy for one thing while snarling like a rabid hound at other things. I also witnessed the dogpile you had when you pointed out the magnet issue on twitter, that was embarassing to say the least. Personally, I enjoyed Frontiers for what it was, but near enough everything you said I agree with. There needs to be improvement, as much as I wish it was, Frontiers is not the be-all, end-all of Sonic experiences, far from it. I say this after my "honeymoon period" with the game is over and I'm looking at the very obvious flaws. I'm rambling, all I wanted to say was that I had a fun resurgence of Sonic enjoyment in my life the last few years. However, it's being somewhat undone by a fanbase of awful people that seem to condemn all kinds of drama while simultaneously begging for and feeding off of more.
Very solid video. I can't comment much in terms of my own opinion with Frontiers. Because its one of the few Sonic games I chose to step back from once I really got an idea of the directions it was headed in. It certainly... sounds like there's areas it improved on from Forces. But in the end, it just feels like another painfully confused Sonic game... after a 5 year wait from a near decade of painfully confused Sonic games. Which is what REALLY sours me about this game. Even when giving Sega ample time to improve... it feels like we've barely fixed a lot of the problems this series has had in both recent years and from the start. Even with P o k è m o n, and its very painful state right now, you get the sense there is passion there... But the yearly release schedule is just bringing down the series' dev time and overall quality. If they got time to cook, maybe there'd be something there to work with due to the countless decent conceptual and gameplay ideas in their modern games. But with Sonic, to me, there is NO excuse. They just do not know what to do. Because they continue to show no sign to improve the games, OR the overall brand. Frontiers, the Sonic movies, Prime... they all have different energies, different casts, different everything... no synergy or consistency. And that reeks of Sega just not taking Sonic as a brand truly seriously to me right now. And I think what especially gave me that impression is when we've had to hear stories of Sega gimping Sonic Team's budgets for YEARS now... getting so bad to where they have to reuse levels from a single 2011 game... only for them to gladly spend nearly 1 BILLION on Rovio. A mobile developer who made... Angry Birds... Cool. It just baffles me, and screams they do not truly understand their issues with both Sonic, and their own company, currently. And have no real sensible plan to understand those issues.
Welcome to Sega Sammy Holdings, Knux. Actually, just Sammy Holdings because ‘Sega’ is only in name at this point for the sake of recognition. Same with ‘Sonic Team’.
I feel like a lot of the control problems stem from this weird open zone aesthetic they went for. Because of the uneven terrain they amped up sonic's stickiness to 11, which means that sometimes he sticks and sometimes he launches at completely random times. If they just had normal physics and flatter ground, those launches would feel natural, and random sticking just wouldnt exist. But instead they had to compensate for their bad design
I find it very fascinating that so many people on Twitter are getting mad about something I never actually said in this video in regards to DOOM Eternal, yet only a handful of people have even mentioned this in the comments on the actual video. Almost as if, when people watched the video itself, they understood what I actually meant and didn't take something completely out of context from a short clip on Twitter. For the record: I did not say Sonic should play like DOOM or even Zelda. I did not say Frontiers is bad because you can stand still without being killed. I did not say that Frontiers needs to be hard, especially not as hard as DOOM on Nightmare difficulty. I said that Frontiers is so easy and automated that it never asks you to play it properly, just like the boring IGN footage that everyone hated. I used DOOM as an example for how *that game* pushes you to play it a certain way (aggressive, fast and up-close to enemies wherever possible). Same with Breath of the Wild, I wanted to highlight how the game is about paying attention to the world and your own stamina, because that's how *that game* functions. Frontiers has nothing like this at all. The platforming and combat are so mindless, and the game never asks the player to improve. As I said in the video, it encourages complacency. It's not about being hard (even though I played the game on Hard mode...), it's about driving engagement. I completed Frontiers on autopilot, rarely did I need to pay attention or think. Boost in a straight line to the next waypoint (a common problem with open world games), bounce off automated springs, run through automated loops, mash a single button to defeat enemies, parry with no regards to timing, etc. This is why I didn't enjoy Frontiers, none of its mechanics are very interesting, and the game never forced me to use them. Imagine if you didn't need to use portals in Portal, or if Kirby didn't require you to use Copy Abilities (or inhale enemies/objects to use as weapons) to progress through the levels and bosses. It's not about being hard, but games need *some* level of challenge. Something, anything. Frontiers has almost nothing. Please watch the "Challenge Matters" video that I suggested - ruclips.net/video/AS-tDsN1KX0/видео.html Anyway, I'm very happy with the reception on the video so far. Fans of Frontiers are being respectful, and those who disliked the game are glad to hear from someone who shares their opinion. It even hit 10K views in less than two days (a new record for the channel), and I'm now at 6K subs, so that's pretty cool too.
That reminds me of Rain World, it has a simple movement system, but it keeps you engaged because even when you're doing something "mundane", you can do some advanced maneuvers which require timing and precision to cut time, and the way the game is made allows the procedural animations to flow into one another and chain movements really smootlhy. Even when it doesn't really look like you're doing much if you're just watching gameplay, once you know how to do the techy movement, there is not a single moment where you aren't pressing a button and preparing to press the next one in that game.
As long you don’t harm the RUclipsr then that’s alright. I do kinda hate it as well because he just looking at the issue not the actual content like the titans fight he hates it because is all janky. He does not care about how insane the gameplay is. I prefer having good content like update 3 other than just fixing bugs other wise we not getting any more content
Sonic Team can't decide between the "Roller Coaster" level design of Sonic Unleashed onward or the "Skate Park" level design of Sonic Adventure 2. In Sonic Adventure 2 it was more about "How fast can you beat the stage?" rather than "How fast can Sonic go?"; this difference in design philosphy is why the SA2 levels are so much more engaging, with many opportunities to perform tricks throughout the stages which in turn rewards you with a faster route & higher rank overall. With Modern Sonic it feels like you're just watching Sonic blitz through an on-rails spectacle which while visually appealing isn't very satisfying from a gameplay standpoint.
i never saw unleashed's design as "how fast can sonic go" as i feel that it's more in line with sa2's approach. i love both of those games and have loved them for a decade and some change because they bothb share in common that challenge/reflex factor, which forces the player to ENGAGE with the stage mechanics. i don't think sonic's issue has ever been playstyle it's just been creating and engaging game with the challenge that the series needs. it's what makes eggmanland or final rush so great to me.
Nah I disagree, SA2 stages feels like glorified QTE because it's too focused on giving cistant tricks to do and you need to be precise with them. It makes the levels restrictive dhich is nit what the earlier sonic levels were about. I ironically find more freedom in the good boost levels than any sa2 speed level
I just wanna say I always appreciate your brutal honesty and takes on everything Sonic related. Rather or not if I happen to have the same experience or opinion as you never changed my mindset that if someone has something important to discuss, positive or negative, it’s best to keep an open mindset. And you’re a genuine real one for having guts to discuss and disclose the toxicity, all of which I 100% agree with, this is why I always respect you man, thank you for putting this review out. I may have enjoyed Frontiers a lot, I may have enjoyed the movies a lot too, but I always appreciate you speaking out your issues and experiences if it means this series can have a better future. Much respect to ya!
Been waiting for this review and i gotta say despite me liking Sonic Frontiers I respect your opinion. I really don't want nothing to do with the toxicity of the Sonic fanbase because it is so draining seeing people being harassed over a video game and Jebtube's video pretty much proved the entire point of how Sonic fans go crazy over the smallest things of people talking about the game both positive and negative in a toxic way. Sonic Frontiers is a game i like but i really want to see major improvements especially rolling physics, an engaging combat system like Tales, DMC, and Platinum games because i love those kind of games as well. Anyway great critique video as always love your content and I hope one day you can find a new Sonic game that will amaze you
Even as somebody who loved frontiers, I can agree with some of your points. It sucks that a lot of Sonic fanbase can’t let other people have opinions, especially around half of the Frontiers side of the fanbase. Great video though, even if I may not agree with some of your points.
Maybe it's just me, but the toxicity in the fanbase feels like a weird ripple effect from Sonic 06's reception. The (deserved) negative backlash led to a complete pivot in the direction of the series, leading to some aspects fans enjoyed (e.g., multiple playable characters, open level design, etc.) being removed. I wonder if fans are worried that it'll happen again if anyone criticizes the things they enjoy about the games. That's why they were so defensive of Forces before release ("a return to the boost gameplay!") and now Frontiers ("please keep iterating on open-zone gameplay and don't pivot again to something totally different!"). Considering the well-received Generations lead to Lost World and Boom though, this defensive attitude is totally pointless.
I watched this video in its entirety and I agree with everything you said. My friends and I have been making these same points for MONTHS. It is very relieving to hear another person with these thoughts against all the obnoxious defense squads who come after you for any slight negative comment.
These types of videos are really interesting to watch for me, because I agree with nearly every critique you have of the game. But where those issues kill the game for you, they really don’t bother me. The way I see it, the lowest points of the game were the snags on rough terrain and the forced minigames (I have never fallen through the terrain or anything like that in my 50 hours so far, though the rail bug you mentioned did happen to me twice), and the highest points were so many great character moments, chaining together those level design chunks into one long run across the massive islands which feels amazing, combat encounters against enemies like Tower and Ninja which are so fun on hard/master mode (or without upgrading), and those titan boss fights (the first of which genuinely left me needing to catch my breath on my first playthrough, it made me so happy to see this series do something so unashamed and just cool after so many years). The game is absolutely flawed and if someone wanted to argue mediocre I couldn’t even tell them they’re wrong. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I’m really happy that it exists. Every game since Sonic Colors’ new cutscene direction has made me feel completely alienated, like the series gave up on itself and wanted to play into the “this series is a joke” sentiment. That’s why this game means a lot to me. Screw everyone who harassed others over their opinions though. So disappointing how toxic people continue to be.
I just finished Frontiers for the first time, 33+ of gameplay (because I 100% all islands and side stories). I gave it a 7/10. I legit had more fun with Forces, because it was a cheaper game, less filler, and the fun achievements kept me coming back. Not long after competing Frontiers I finished The Murder of Sonic, and my God, I want more of that! I want bright graphics and music! I want fun and well written interactions between the Sonic cast. I want more of Sonic being effortlessly cool! I believe Frontiers in the far future will be one of those Sonic games taht fans will look back and despise with passion, very much like a large portion of the fandom now hates Colors.
Sonic fans are so insecure I find it genuinely funny, not just because of how they react to criticism of Frontiers, but for most "peak" Sonic games that seems to be the case, they just can't handle people who don't blindly accept their consensus. I have a history of saying Sonic Unleashed isn't that great, the daytime stages are easily the best part of the game and I do have fun when I play them, but everything else is just a chore, having to collect medals to progress adds nothing substantial to the game other than artificially making it longer, the Werehog stages are also boring as hell with the combat not really doing anything that other hack n slash games like God of War, DMC or Ninja Gaiden haven't already done much better. The type of responses I tend to get when I talk about how overall mediocre Unleashed is are largely angry people spouting nonsense or saying "skill issue", which isn't an argument and says more about them than me, considering they're the ones implying a basic and barebones hack n slash like the Werehog sections require any kind of skill.
i actually disagree to an extent; the werehog, while you could argue it's barebones, i thought was still fun regardless. some of his moves were really fun to pull off and chain together, i love his cartwheel and spinning needle attacks. i honestly thought the combat in frontiers was worse (er, *looked* worse, i should say. i never bought frontiers lol) than unleashed, which is baffling to me. we're two console generations after the wii, ps3, and xbox 360 and games have somehow gotten worse. maybe it is a preference thing in my case, though, or maybe i'm just not good at hack and slash games, because i've played bayonetta recently and could only barely tolerate it, i really didn't like playing it most of the way through. i guess i should note that a couple of other hack and slash games i like include no more heroes (i especially like nmh 2, but the rest of the series is fun as well) and...sonic and the black knight, if that counts. collecting the sun and moon medals was never a very huge issue for me when i first played; i remember getting stuck before jungle joyride day but then realized that i could scavenge the hub worlds and do some of the side stages to get more sun/moon medals. i don't know, it never quite bothered me, but i understand how you feel; maybe the sun/medals should've only been used to unlock extras, like concept art. i actually really liked how the wii/ps2 versions of unleashed handled sun and moon medals: you can get up to three of them in one stage, and it's tied to what rank you get in the stage. they only unlock extra rooms in the gaia gates which have a short platforming challenge you can do, and you're rewarded with either extra lives or some extra in the gallery, like concept art.
@@lolita_cat I prefer Frontiers' combat because at least it has a better grasp at how a Sonic-style combat system can work, since it maintains the fast pace and the flow of Sonic's movement while adding melee attacks to the mix. Like, you don't switch to an entirely different playstyle that apes God of War just so the game can have combat in the first place, you're still playing Sonic but with melee combat, obviously has a lot of room for improvement, but yeah. What makes or breaks Unleashed might very well be the Werehog, if you're able to enjoy it, then it makes sense that you'll ultimately love Unleashed, as you're gonna spend more than half of your time with the game with it. Personally, I never even replayed Unleashed after finishing it for the first time, every time I want to go back to this game, I just load up my completed save file and play the daytime stages.
I don’t condone the more extreme actions that certain fans take, but I think it’s important to realize what made the fanbase this way. Years of being used as a punching bag and laughing stock of the industry has pretty much worn out most people’s patience, I for example was bullied in school for liking Sonic, to me, it’s not surprising that they are biting back at people so harshly nowadays because even when they get something good like the movies or Frontiers there’s always some contrarian or troll that comes in to spread negativity when they’re just trying to enjoy something good for once. Sonic is not free from criticism nor will it ever be and while I don’t think that the fan base will get treated better for acting defensively rabid towards criticism I do think it’s important to understand why things have gotten this way and try to understand where it’s coming from.
I have an absolutely astronomical amount of respect for you for being one of the few people to understand that opinions CANNOT be objective and games CANNOT be objectively better or worse than other games.
It’s pretty sad that the best 3d Sonic game to come out in the last decade, is a fan made remake of 06. But seriously, mad respect for having the courage to speak out, and share an unpopular opinion about the game that many people in the community are afraid to share. P.S, I would love to see you do a review/critique of P-06, even if that style of Sonic gameplay doesn’t click with you.
Thank you! I think P06 is very impressive but unfortunately I feel it inherits most of the issues I have with the original game anyway. I don't think I'll ever do a video solely about it, but I've responded to a few comments asking similar things.
@@telekinesticman Such as ? The way certain characters are relegated only to very short sections ? Or Shadow's vehicles being filler ? That's one thing I can agree on, but on the whole P-06 showcases that the foundation was overall good.
My personal biggest problem is not at frontiers itself but rather the larger industry and beyond, the way I see it, is not that people are been more harsh on sonic than with everyone else, for me, is that they are being, for a lack of a better word, more honest on how they feel about the game than with others. A lot of other triple a games like Halo infinite, Pokémon, bayoneta 3, howarts legacy and even the recent Jedi survivor have a lot of the problems in frontiers and even some exclusive to their own, but the critic scores usually don’t reflect that. Even compare in other mediums, it drives me insane that people have a problem with the references in frontiers but they give it a pass in the Mario movie, a movie I feel is only elevated by its references. What I’m trying to say is, a lot of people say that sonic should not be judge in an standard of its own but rather at the standard of the rest of the industry, and sadly to say, I think lately, sonic is at the standard of the majority.
I thought that too, like i agree with everything said in this video that sonic should meet the standards of today but... nowdays, only a few games and companys meet that standard, if you look at the rest of things, most games nowdays launch with lots of bugs *cough* pokemon scarlet and violet, and even other triple A games do as well, at this point its not just a problem with sonic, its a problem with the industry as a whole, bc if you look at games from back then to the games from now, almost all those games didnt have day 1 patches
Sonic is considered one of the worst game franchises by the main stream , but then you have pokemon who launches a unfinished game and somehow it gets good sales and some good reviews, at this point, its about who you like best, not about the actual products quality
@@Banana807 I think that even morally speaking there is a lot to be said, like I also agree with the point of toxic positivity, something that even stands to this day, but six months later of release I now see a lot of toxic negativity where people can’t enjoy something without someone telling them that they don’t have standards for enjoying it to the point of being immature and in one case calling someone the R word. Even in other mediums like the new knuckles show, while I understand the critic that people have to the plot, there were a few “mature” fans throwing the word copaganda around again even tho nobody said a thing when spider verse also had a major character being a cop, a movie exclusive thing. To be clear I also see this in other franchises like Pokémon fans accusing a RUclipsr of being a pedo for liking the new games or the whole Mario vs sonic discourse. Also, last point, I’m all for critiquing this game but I do draw the line at calling the developers lazy like some reviewers do, at the end of the day we don’t know what happens close door and a product being bad doesn’t reflect the effort of the developers.
@@Banana807 eh i Don't think it's this bad. Bo matter what happens in the fandom, people like sonic, especially haters. Also well, different surroundings, all of my timeline and people's opinions i value have said that mario movie sucks becsuse of these refrences, and somehow sonic movies are kinda better lol.
For me, it’s the exact opposite. It seems like everyone gives the Mario movie shit over things that they would give the Sonic movies a free pass for. The liscenced songs for example as everyone and their mother absolutely DESPISES the Mario movie using them yet everyone was more than okay when the Sonic movies used many liscenced songs as well. Another example being how everyone was ready to make fun of the Mario movie and hating it for having fart jokes, flossing, cringy dance numbers, etc. (it didn’t), meanwhile when the SONIC movies do those EXACT things that those same people apparently hate so much, Sonic gets a free fucking pass and it’s okay when Sonic does it. There’s always double standards or hypocrisy somewhere. It’s not a purely one sided treatment where Mario gets a free pass for something that Sonic gets harshly criticized for, it’s always been a case where Sonic gets a free pass for something that Mario gets harshly criticized for AS WELL. No offense, but you’re kinda showing that hypocrisy right now where you give the Mario movie shit and say that it’s only elevated by its “references” meanwhile you give Sonic Frontiers a pass just because it makes it a lot of references to the good Sonic stories. Look it’s true, the Mario movie has some fundamental writing/pacing issues………… just like how Sonic Frontiers has a lot of fundamental game design issues or how the Sonic movies ALSO have some fundamental writing/padding issues and cringy Hollywood trends. Either way, it’s all a matter of how you see fandoms and their fandom wars/cultures.
Solid video. I was especially glad to see someone finally mention the fact that this game's idea of traversal more often than not amounts to running unimpeded across vast, flat, empty wastelands. I thought that would have been a much more significant talking point in common discourse around the game considering it's practically unavoidable and it's what you'll likely spend a majority of your time on the islands doing, but it comes up surprisingly little in even the more critical videos I've seen on the game thus far. In fact, with a lot of what you and others have said along with my own thoughts, I'm honestly not too sure if Frontiers really is "a step in the right direction" at all. While Forces was as barebones a platformer as i think it could really ever get, Frontiers perhaps takes the silliness a step further into outright fundamentally contradicting its own design, littering what should be an open environment with almost strictly linear, scripted engagements which fail to leverage the open world structure at all. It's a game at odds with itself, which at the very least, isn't a criticism I could lob at Forces. That game knew what it wanted to be, it just wasn't very good at it. Frontiers meanwhile feels like a tech demo; a bunch of ideas in consideration for whatever might become a real game in the future. Hopefully any prospective sequel can identify what ideas are worth taking and which aren't from this experiment, but that hope does not at all translate into expectation, I'm afraid to say. Your breakdown of the honeymoon period infecting the fandom and turning people violent against any level of detraction from the game as though it were some kind of personal attack on their beloved Sega to a point of hypocrisy was also on-point. This emphasis on the meta of discourse is an emphasis few reviewers have, and while I wouldn't want to see coming it from everyone, you're thorough enough in covering it to where I'm glad you're one of the people who are, along with Jeb. In any case, with the sheer vigor of Frontiers' surprisingly positive reception, I also went out of my way to keep quiet on my thoughts on it at first out of worry of being swamped in the vein you outlined, so it's nice to be reminded I'm not crazy for thinking Frontiers is anything less than stellar. This honeymoon period has lasted quite a bit longer than I thought it would, but hopefully it's wearing off and more civil critical discussion can take its place. Looking forward to whatever's next from you.
I really loved Sonic Frontiers when it first dropped. Months later I can say that I just like Frontiers. I like this game because of what the next game and the game after that might look like if that makes any sense. When Forces dropped it was arguable whether or not Sonic Team tried but with Frontiers it's a no brainer that they did TRY to make a good Sonic game and overall with Fans they have indeed made a game with a solid reception. But as a person who majored in Sonic-ology🤓 It keeps me up at night on what Sonic Team was thinking with a a lot of the design choices they made. Piss easy puzzles and bosses, Infinite parry, reused assets and level design, stiff controls in cyberspace, useless drop dash, giving us difficulty options when in reality the hardest difficulty can be beaten by a 5 year old who's blindfolded. They're so much that they did wrong design wise that a common person with no knowledge about game design would look at it and ask themselves "wait a minute what in the actual hell was I thinking coming up with this?" It pisses me off that a whole team has a design mentality that shouldn't be acceptable in todays modern age of gaming. If they want to bring Sonic to AAA standards they need a whole shake up on the creative process. But at the end of the day I still have an appreciation for Frontiers, especially with the modding community holding it down. I'm also glad Morio Kishimoto is all forward for the harshest and honest of critiques from many fans, and is planning to take as much feedback into consideration for the DLC's and new Sonic games. However, Morio Kishimoto can promise a lot, but promises doesn't mean anything if the execution is hot garbage. I'm glad Frontiers was a success even though as a game it's honestly undercooked but with SEGA promising a bigger budget and more man power, I really hope the next Sonic game TRULY ignites the Sonic "renaissance" or whatever the new sonic era fans coin up is called.
Really great video here. While I don't hate the game, I feel it's very lacking and your ending sums up my thoughts very well. There is a severe lack of polish in the overall game and there is no satisfying movement or challenge. I only played Generations a few years ago and I've had miles more fun with that and day stages in Unleashed than I ever had in Frontiers. Everything in those games feel very tight, polished, and clean, and it's that level of quality I want to see again. I feel as if every game since Colors (aside from Generations) has had the same issues throughout and Frontiers doesn't fix those things. I want to be able to just look at a Sonic game again and say "Now that's a game," but as of right now I can't. It seems as if Kishimoto cares about the series and wants to do right by it, and I can only hope he gets the opportunity to do so and if he can't, then maybe someone else.
This game to me reminds me of sonic 1, where that game was a foundation for something while having its gripes. This feels the same to me so I have hope that they can improve the base this game provides as it’s been stated this is the direction they want sonic to go in. Imo I think this game is really fun despite its flaws and I always like running around the islands mindlessly and doing platforming, but I respect you going out of your way to talk about the issues with the game despite the fan base being super toxic about criticism.
I need more people to point out how weird the song Vandalize is for a Sonic game lol. I've read the lyrics. What does it have to do with anything that happened in Frontiers? It's not a bad song but is it appropriate?
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to portray the grief that Eggman feels over losing Sage (who may as well have been his daughter at this point) at the end of the game
It makes no sense because it's literally just licensed music. It comes from One Ok Rock's own album from 2022, it's not on the game's actual soundtrack.
Oh the Cyberspace controls in general are just terrible, absolutely. There was more I could have said, but I tried to focus on my major gripes with the new formula, and less of what was already said by others. I mostly just wanted to avoid spending months working on a project about a game I think is pretty bad.
@@telekinesticman About that, I have a personal theory and I would like an opinion on this. Do you think the control is bad not because Kishimoto couldn’t figure out how Sonic could control or is it because the people who worked on the games control had little to no experience working on a Sonic game? If we look back at the history, experienced veterans who had worked on acclaimed games(not just from Sega, but also their subsidiaries) left due to mismanagement. But the moment they did leave, the newcomers who come in to replace them had to chance to learn from the people who came before them. So each new game is a different ‘Sonic Team’ with over 50% of them being fresh to Sonic, in turn - not familiar with the schematics of controlling a character that is fast. So do you believe that the lack of proper veteran to newcomer basic fundamental teaching experience is part of the reason why Frontiers control suffers? Personally, I feel if I have to input a customized control setting for a character that the player has to figure out, without taking the game’s level design and physics into account…well I feel that’s failing part of your game’s vision. Accessibility is good to have in a game for different audiences, but it shouldn’t be an excuse to cover up the director having no clue how to solve the character’s movement in a case by case basis.
Over a week late but finally got around to watching this. Always love hearing from you. Personally, I was still able to enjoy Sonic Frontiers on a very disconnected level of "well I'm deriving some form of fun from this", but ultimately I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, though maybe I'm a little more lenient when it comes to things like Knuckles' voice, etc. I "enjoyed" Sonic Frontiers (not sarcasm, just hard to explain my feelings without going into depth), but I still feel the same sense of dread that I've been feeling since Sonic Colours released. That sense of uncertainty and fear that Sonic will never genuinely try to be not just itself, but it's best self. I'm extremely glad I have other series and games I enjoy, able to overflow my heart with passion and excitement (Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, Mario, Ace Attorney, etc), but there will always be a Sonic-shaped hole in my heart, hoping that one day, the right people notice, and create a Sonic game that makes me believe again.
This explains how I feel....it's "fun", but I don't feel the same rush, exhilaration, and joy as I do playing previous main titles, mainly the 2000s titles. I feel disconnected from the game too. It didn't give me what I was looking for.
I watched and honestly, you hit the nail on the head for most of the things and some I didn't even consider could be problems. I too didnt like the weird fuzzy material covering Sonic, and honestly his eyes being overly reflective look weird. I agree with Sonic being nailed to the floor when you're trying to play with him is an issue. I'd really like for them to polish up his physics a bit as well. I didn't like how the characters sounded. Tails was the only who sounded somewhat normal, but Sonic's voice has reached an all time low....LITERALLY. The philosophy behind the voice change is poorly thought out and unjustified given that Sonic has been in serious situations before, and his voice didn't need to drop an octave to portray that. The fact that Roger is so unfitting that him NOT sounding like the character is more pleasant to listen to is just.....I don’t why or how people keep making excuses for this dude. I have never seen so many excuses, dismissal of evidence, and ignorance of logic from people when it comes to Roger and him being unfitting... People can like him if they want, but disingenuousness and stubborness is sad. He sounded better in Frontiers than he has in any other game, but now he doesn’t sound like Sonic AT ALL. I do understand the game was going for a more authentic approach and that this direction was somewhat necessary, but to me there is no justification for why Sonic should be sounding like this if he as a character hasn't changed. *looks at Iizuka* I will say he did give a more authentic performance, and it sounds better. So, I'll give him points for that. Amy sounded depressed and meh. I already didn't like her actress's Minnie Mouse take in the first place though. Knuckles is tolerable, but like Roger, the jockish thing he's got going on is off putting. I can hardly tell him and Sonic apart at times. As for the arcs they go through, I understand that they are trying to restablish them, but it was just poorly executed. Tails's arc was just a 4th wall break that made me even more annoyed. Don't need to explain more. Knuckle's arc made more sense in the Japanese version. I highly prefer him still being the responsible guy he is and wanting to learn more about his heritage than him having this out of nowhere jealousy of Sonic and wanting to shirk his duties. That's not him. There is no reason for them to go their separate ways because they already DO THAT. They have their own lives already. They say, "Long time, no see" constantly whenever they see each other. I don't care for Sage a bit. She did nothing except pester Sonic and get depressed at Eggman because she wanted him to be a father to her. The only noteworthy thing she did was sacrifice herself, and it meant nothing because she just came right back. She should've stayed dead. Her relationship with Eggman seemed like something straight out of a fanfiction. "My dear daughter". Please give me a break....😑 I get that they're trying to humanize Eggman, but he has already showed his human side before. He is a narcissistic evil genius FIRST. So, thank you for this video. I do agree with MOST points. Ignore the haters and people who want to misconstrue what you said.
you've perfectly described pretty much everything i've felt about this game and have helped relive some frustration caused from seeing this game get immense praise from the community great video
@@Banana807 Well, I mean…… it’s still a very simple free April Fools game. There’s not much to really hate about it or find offensive. It’s honestly hard to even call it a real Sonic game as it plays nothing like how other Sonic games play out. It’s really just a well written April Fools murder mystery visual novel game with Sonic characters slapped on it. Nothing much else to it really. And like I said it’s free so of course even professional critics are gonna mostly like it.
@@kao7143 yeah pretty much exactly like you said, he's upset that people like the game. people like him can't handle others liking things. pretty sad...
I think characters like Knuckles & Shadow would fit better in this combat-centered openworld, exploration format. However, the gameplay, story, & atmosphere overall is still fairly underwhelming & unsatisfying.
Toxic behavior of fandom is very difficult topic. Let's talk about opinions. When we express our opinions, we usually express how we feel about it. Of course, we use arguments or facts, but it is still way to express how we feel. If there are some people who start harassing you, it is usually because they are very vulnerable and they want to defend what's important for them in very extreme way. That is why the best way in my opinion is to adjust your reaction to it (I am not saying, that you should change your opinion, of course no, but in order to prevent further damage for your mental health). It is extremely difficult, I know it myself, however, sadly, you can not change people's reaction. There will be always people like that. I love Sonic Frontiers, it gave a lot of positive emotions for me. However, I am not saying that it is perfect game, far from it. I can clearly see why people feel frustrated or angry. That is why I constantly remind myself, that every opinion is valid. Even if it is very extreme one. What I am trying to say, that it is just my experience, what other person feel is absolutely different experience. They are not even slightly related. Sorry for such chaotic opinion of mine. I also experienced not very pleasant events in Sonic fandom. I just want to express some genuine support for you. What you experienced of course is terrible, and feel sorry for you. Thank you for your video and good luck.
I love Frontiers for what it tried to do, it's not perfect but it gives me hope that when we do get another open world Sonic game or even in the DLC. It builds upon the original and makes it better.
I just completed Frontiers for the first time, and for me it is a decent game with high highs and really low lows. The second island is, imo, the best portion of the game. I think Sonic fans (myself included) love Frontiers not for its own merits, but for what it represents: hope for the future. Hope that future titles are better. The same used to be true when Colors was released back in 2010, but now the same fans look back and hate Colors for being the catalyst to the "Meta Era". The true Sonic Cycle is when Sonic fans reevaluate past titles and change their opinion. 06, Unleashed and story book games are now loved and "peak" Sonic. While all 2010's (minus Mania) are bad. I think the same will happen in the future as people reflect on Frontiers.
I’m glad I’m not the only one lol. I was kind of getting annoyed that a ton of fans are praising this game saying “sonics back”! And it’s true that this is the first sonic game sega made that isn’t mid, in a while, however just because they made a pretty good game (after 10 frickin years) doesn’t mean they’re out of the woods yet. They still got a pretty long road ahead if you ask me I also agree with you at 7:12 it seems the ENTIRE fandom really likes and cares for their relationship but I cannot. It’s too rushed and forced for me to care Also, also I agree with you about sonics voice 6:18 he literally just sounds like Roger trying make a deep voice 😂
I was excited for "Sonic Frontiers" since I played the demo in London, but it only took me an hour of playing on my Nintendo Switch to conclude it was an unengaging hodge podge.
I never really experienced any of those bugs and very rarely the "glue shoes". It's a shame that others have to deal with the pop ins and all of that. The game isn't great but I feel like it's the start of something better, also i really like the soundtrack in my opinion but I do understand why others don't, it's not like how we're used to.
@@labingus Yeah. One of the most frustrating aspects about the discussion surrounding Frontiers is that, unlike you, many people use "Well this never happened to me!" And "It's a stepping stone for a future game!" As an EXCUSE for Frontiers' glaring issues. It's not.
It might be a bad comparison since they're two games going for a completely different gameplay loop but it kinda floored me just how much this game felt like a unity tech demo for someones fangame when Spark the Electric Jester 3 actually felt like it was made and produced by a larger studio despite literally being made by one dude. It's not even that i'd want a Sonic game to be exactly like that either, I just want the series to at least achieve the kind of quality that game and other Indie platformers have instead of Sonic Team putting way more on their plate than they can handle (It's seriously incredible to me how much faith people had in this game despite the last game they made was awful while being considerably lesser in scope) instead of focusing on what they can feasibly work on and polish for a full release.
Edit: This comment was posted too urgently, I didn't notice this part 26:06 on my first "watch" as I mostly kept the video as a background noise and was truely focused on something else, however I stand my ground on saying more people should give this game a try, it's really worth it regardless of comparisons. I shouldn't be that guy, but there's a High Speed 3D Platformer out there that manages to fully exploit the physics of its character in satisfactory levels to run through and explore, have you ever played Spark the Electric Jester 3? If you like games with a high skill ceiling where you are always in control, with plenty of hidden mechanics that you can pull off only if you have a good understanding of your abilities, I can only recommend you to take a look at it There's just the story that is a direct following of the previous games so expect to be confused on this part
@@bluudevil4483 Whoops yeah my bad, since I mostly kept the video as background noise, the part were spark was mentioned didn't instantly hit me, I'll edit in a justification real quick
@@telekinesticman ah good XP the game's dev lake feperd is currently working on a racing game, but confirmed there will be a sequel to spark 3. Looking forward what he can further improve upon in the future
a well put critique of frontiers, with well intention to see sonic team puts out significantly better quality sonic games. One of the points that I have to disagree is the screamo (melodic metal rock to be precise) part, it mostly had positive reception and I would hate seeing them removed. I wish someone could link this video to Kishimoto minus the latter half of the video or put a bulletpoint tldr, that would be great
As much as I want the series to improve, I think we need to leave the man alone. He's been asked so many weird questions and is going to get himself in trouble if he keeps answering them, especially after the comments on 2D Sonic games and Infinite. Sometimes I feel like he doesn't realise the pot he's stirring by casually dropping this stuff (although I still think the 2D Sonic mention wasn't really intended as any kind of hard confirmation of a new Dimps game or whatever, even though the leaks suggest one is coming soon).
@@telekinesticman I don't have twitter anymore but many weird questions doesn't sound good. Although, I'm sure they keep track about the many legitimate complaints this game had so I'm not too worried about the series improving. One thing for sure, he successfully make some hype about the new 2D game
Great video! I appreciate your honesty and criticism about how this game is and the courage to post a video like this, knowing how the Sonic community is. Can't wait until your channel blows up!
Hey, just came across this video and... wow. To see the fan base act like this is just, laughably bad. And for me, frontiers can have it's problems here and there, but overall solid. You opinion stands and I respect it, and can agree here.
If the Open Zone design was good the lack of momentum wouldn't be that big of a problem, if the movement was good, that could wash away the crappy Open Zone design. If the Cyberspace stages were great that would wash away the crappy everything for me, it'd just be like Sonic Adventure and Unleashed where I really like those games because I don't play the parts that suck when I go back to them. But no matter how much I try I can't find the objectively good in Sonic Frontiers and I honestly dislike it more than Forces because at least it was over in a couple of hours and I could laugh at how bad the story was
It's been like since i was a child that i am in the sonic fandom And i still have absolutely 0 fuking idea why people get so upset when a sonic game is called bad Like bro, it's just their opinion, it won't stop you from enjoying the game I hate the people doing that because it makes people outside of the community think that all sonic fans are like this, but it's a minority :/
I’d like to preface this by saying I genuinely love Frontiers and dicking around in the open zones and speedrunning cyberspace levels scratches an itch that a 3D Sonic hasn’t done for me since Adventure 1 (I even find that there are a lot more parallels with that game and this one than people realize) But with that being said your criticisms of the gameplay are absolutely warranted and I’m not sure why so many people get hostile when anyone brings them up. I mean, the most satisfying parts of this game are when you get to fling yourself off of ramps and rails to do shit right? A more involved physics system and a design philosophy more focused on doing that and on achieving core-level play over sticking to casual play would only be beneficial lol Good video! The IGN plot twist at the end was genuinely shocking lmao
11:25 This is definitely the worst homing attack in the series, it's slow it kills all momentum, and you can't move in the air after it's such a pace killer that in the cyberspace levels it's recommended that you avoid using thr homing attack at all to get the S rank because of how slow it is 2:16p.m. 5/24/2023
THE CUTSCENE BEFORE GIGANTO *_IS_* STRETCHED
I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY
ikr? i wonder if they'll ever fix that anytime soon
How did that mistake even slip by?
@@kaxcommentssomethingREALnah I wanna know how they made that mistake in the first place since it's real time
@@ALtheBoi FOR REAL??? 🙃🤔
Every time I criticize a new Sonic product, I feel more and more like the critic from Ratatouille.
“I don’t like the Sonic series, I love it. If I don’t like the product, I don’t swallow” (meaning I don’t just blindly praise it, but you know what I mean)
We can always hope the increase in allotted budget Sonic Team has been given means a more polished experience in on the way, but that won’t stop the higher-ups from forcing out an incomplete project once again just because they feel like it.
That moment from Ratatouille hits harder every time I see it. I've almost included it before in past videos.
@@telekinesticman Even in that movie, the critic loss his job and credibility for giving a honest review. Darn, just like…man. Meanwhile these trolling toxic fans continue to eat any lackluster content that the corporate keeps feeding them, because they think they outweigh the people who do have problems with their brand. And they get ‘rewarded’ for that? That NOT how being a FAN should work!
@@telekinesticman it surprising that even to this day Sega still constantly rushes games preventing them from reaching their true potential. As we can see from some pages from the Sonic Frontiers art book you can see how different the islands look(I know they aren't the full islands but seeing all the pages with them gives me an image of how the full islands would look in 3d) the island that got it the worst was chaos and the one that got it best was surprisingly Ares island.
Such an excellent analogy!!!
gotta go fast!!!! Pump that game out by Christmas or we’re firing you!!!!!
a Sonic fan on Twitter calling you "not a true Sonic fan" is the biggest compliment at this point
Proud to have been ratio'd by that lot.
Wonder what's up with that argument cause I already know fake fans.
you're actually not a true sonic fan if you harass people for liking or disliking imo
@@kaosagamerreal who did he harass, I'm listening
This person is in so many comment threads on this video (across multiple accounts, I think) repeatedly claiming that anyone who dislikes this game and points out the toxic positivity is somehow creating harassment, or is gatekeeping (???). It's always the people who genuinely just enjoy Frontiers (which is fine!) who feel the need to defend it and claim that actually this is a "both sides" issue, instead of just liking the game and moving on.
I won't deny toxic negativity exists as well, and we shouldn't condone that. I certainly don't. But I've yet to see a comprehensive record of events on the same scale as seen in this video of mine about the amount of harassment sent towards people who are just enjoying Frontiers in their own little online space. The reason this video focused on the positive side is because that's all I was seeing in my own personal life. I'm not going to record events that I didn't even know had happened.
If these handful of people are going to continue to claim that the other side is just as bad, and that somehow it's the fault of me, Jeb, Yakko, LS Mark etc., then can we see some actual evidence? Additionally, can we get some direct quotes of when *any of us* harassed, gatekept, or performed other generally unsavoury behaviour? People love to throw these accusations around but I have *never* once seen them backed up. Not once. It usually seems that the people who like Frontiers take our opinions of the game's quality, and the *factual evidence* of toxic positivity as some kind of personal attack against them. If you like Frontiers and have never harassed anyone for it, then you have nothing to worry about. This isn't about you.
In short, ignore this person. This comment of theirs is one of the far tamer ones to be fair, but trust me, they've left many others across this video making the same complaints, and I'm getting quite sick of it.
If you enjoy Frontiers, keep enjoying it, and stop trying to paint yourself as some victim. I hope I've made myself pretty clear.
6:05 "As if his normals have been flipped"
So fun fact about that, in the very first pics of the game, the normals in the cyberspace levels were all flipped, so it's a game wide/engine problem, or lack of direction/management in the team
Woah really? That's nuts.
@@telekinesticman static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/9/9a/SonicFrontiersGHZ.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220628152022
More specifically this pic, the normal/shadows on the bright wall left of the badnik look... not good, not natural/normal
It was so bad, they actually remade the pic
static.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/8/86/Sonic-Frontiers-Store-JP-Nintendo.com-Screenshot-VI.png/revision/latest?cb=20220914121938
Make your own judgement though
Thanks for the shout out to my Challenge Matters video. It's a philosophy I've been steadily developing over these years and it's nice to hear it resonate with people.
I haven't played sonic frontiers, and likely never will. But it's nice to hear the discussion. Good luck with the video sir.
Thank you so much for watching! I tried not to just repeat your exact points but I also knew that many Sonic fans would have no idea what I was talking about - evidently they don't because currently everyone is getting mad at me because they think I "want Sonic to play like DOOM". Definitely a common response that you've gotten in the past when suggesting things like this for games as well.
If you check out game theory, the study of (non video)games and choices. There is a similar philosophy
I really really appreciate reviews like this. People need to have a healthier relationship with criticism.
I had fun with Frontiers. But it actively goes against it's own design philosophy, then leaves us with a confusing mess of a product.
Videos like this, help Sonic Team be better. And they are listening
I truly hope they are listening, because we've heard for years that this has been the case, yet we still get bad games. We may get less Sonic games now, but they still come out just as rushed as ever. I desperately want this to change.
Sega has historically burned us with false promises.
But we've recently seen some internal shakeups at Sega. Alongside increased budget & development time for Sonic Team.
Let's see if these changes finally matter!
listening to criticism makes you a slave of that person who made a critique but obviously you dont care
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 That's only a valid thing to say when ALL you do is focus on what other people say. If you use criticism to fuel your own strengths and build upon ideas, then that's a great thing
@@MegaMotionCD nope that implies that you need others to get strenght rather then from youre own basically making you a slave to them + that shows that youre not intelligent enough to make good things without criticism shows how weak you are
I remember when one guy in a sonic discord called me a "spoiled brat" because I wanted to see 1 minute footage of cyberspace. This fanbase is simply unbelievable
Pretty cool sign that the final free update for Frontiers is one day away and we still haven't seen anything from it!
Remember when they didn't let anyone record footage of the original Frontiers demo, but Mania and Superstars were revealed with gameplay in their trailers and were playable immediately afterwards? Crazy.
@@telekinesticman Come to think of it; yeah that's true. Altho to be fair, Frontiers' updates have been consistently decent *so far* I wouldn't write off the 3rd update *just yet* altho your video certinely helped me remind that at the end of the day frontiers is still a pretty buggy, fundamentaly flawed game that no update could possibely fix.
It's unfortunate that Sonic's history has been so rough that people think it's unfair to compare the lacking quality of his games to other franchises. The "step in the right direction" defense always gets on my nerves, because I don't think it's a good way of evaluating a $60 game in the AAA space. I feel like there's a certain "hostage situation" among the fan base, which I'm hesitant to define as purely SEGA's fault or self-induced by the fans. In the past, SEGA has made vague statements about the sales performance of games like Origins potentially affecting the future of remakes, and I think this general culture in the games industry - that it's "up to the fans" - leads to people being very positive and defensive about games like Frontiers because they're afraid the developers will get sad and not make Sonic games anymore unless they're showered with praise. I've seen comments on my own video defending features like the drab world design by saying "it's a mysterious new world, Sonic's not SUPPOSED to look like he belongs there!"
I won't claim complete innocence because of the way I write my critiques and jokes, but it was upsetting to see fans make up things I never said, misrepresent my arguments and tell me I'm not a real Sonic fan (despite loving the character since I was a kid) because I'm critical of a large commercial franchise I only want to see reach its full potential, or because I made comparisons to an indie game as a way to highlight its quality while also showing that Sonic Team can do better. Nice video - and thanks for the mention :)
Absolutely, and thank you for watching! I've already been getting comments and tweets from people saying that I'm not allowed to compare Sonic to Zelda, or DOOM, or Metal Gear Rising...or Bayonetta...or literally anything, it seems. Sonic fans view these comparisons as surface-level because I don't think they understand games as a broader medium. They place Sonic in this isolated little vacuum where it's supposedly impenetrable from criticism. I never said "Sonic should play like DOOM" or "you can stand still in Frontiers therefore it's bad", I just want Sonic to be engaging. Not hard, but engaging. But no, apparently I literally wanted Sonic to be Zelda or whatever, when I was just trying to make a broad point about good games pushing you into their systems.
I think the way SEGA's wording weaponises the fanbase isn't great either. I almost mentioned in the video that I feel as if they need to be a little more active in cracking down on this stuff, but I guess it wouldn't look great on them to admit their community is incredibly toxic. It just rubs me the wrong way to know that SEGA's bottom line benefits from the Sonic twitter mob. Although, maybe it doesn't in the long run if Sonic continues to earn such a bad reputation from outside of this community, potentially leading to more casual fans avoiding new games.
@@telekinesticman We have multiple buisness reports (as recent as this month) showing SEGASammy actually profits from the toxic positvity directly, in making Sonic look like such a nice IP that investors should invest in and ignore the Sammy shenegins
@Tessting Who are these sonic fans, if anything I saw people bringing up how GameFreak gets so much slack for "being an indie company" while flaming Sonic Team for the last decade
Well this is the most Tin Foil hat comment I've had ever seen. Acting like sonic fans are going to get you or something
@Tessting well i have seen a lot of people saying that scarlet and violet are amazing and its just the bad performance, or they even blame the performance on the switch, when S&V are literally a console exclusive game
You were a lot more diplomatic about these points than I think I was, lol.
I’m glad people are realizing how toxic Twitter is and leaving the site. It’s not just a Sonic fan thing, nearly every topic on Twitter will lead to someone getting enraged over dumb shit. They need to touch some grass.
I wish bluesky or threads was the new twitter as someone that still uses it its pathetic how any topic people talk about it its always toxicity.
Always love everything you make brother! It'll be a lot of fun to have you at Sonic Revolution with us this year!
Hooba dooba
Hey I haven’t heard from you in a while how are you doing mate
Of course the sonic channel with a hateboner for the franchise agrees lmao
@@riqopowpow That's a bit of an oxymoron isn't it?
@@Chaosflower I'm doing good brother! Just working on more Sonic animations per usual! Hope you're doing good!
Yeah… this is one of the most agreeable reviews I’ve ever watched.
THANK YOU FOR CALLING OUT THE SONIC FANBASE!! People should be allowed express their opinions on a video game and not get bullied by terminally online weirdos. Weather negative or positive, feedback is a good thing in the gaming industry.
This entire critique was very cathartic for me personally, especially the tailend of the review. Good stuff Caelum
Kudos to Sonic fans for defending small independent creators like SEGA and Sonic Team from unfair harassment. These corporations are definitely your friends and totally care about you.
Why does it offend people to just want a Sonic game with polish on par with Mario or INDIE level games?
Because is sonic fans eyes: "sonic good, Mario bad"
@@squarebegooderlife844you’re probably never been into the sonic fandom, almost anyone complain about the games and no one takes seriously the sonic vs Mario thing (in fact,Mario fans do that WAYYYYY more often)
Bruh this game may be flawed but it’s 100% better than the garbage I see on the indie market aside from 1 or 2 exceptions
@@Ermonacodimontagna idk, an indie game called penny's big breakaway just got announced hours ago and I don't think I've seen anything like it. Would be cool if a sonic game went in that direction.
sonic isnt mario thats why
Excellent video, dude!
It's such a shame that fanbases have gotten so toxic and defensive that asking a game series you love (or used to love) to do better is seen as an attack on the series by so many fans. Standards are at a seemingly all time low, not just for Sonic.
20:43 I think that Sonic fanboys are still haunted by Ign saying "Sonic was never good" back in 2016 and are now refusing to let anyone have a negative opinion about Sonic on the internet purely out of fear.
To be fair all the influencers at the times before basically did that
@@LTDLetsPlaysHuh?
@@HOTD108_ basically every reviewer at the tıme basically went on how the series has became shit and every youtuber went along wıth ıt like a echo chamber this was Before 2016 IGN lıke several years before
I have to disagree on the soundtrack front, I think it fits perfectly and has the most "character" in a Sonic soundtrack since 06 and Mania. But calling drum and bass "dubstep" and metalcore "screamo" is just flatout hilarious and a throwback to when I was in high school and everybody decided those were the same thing for some reason
I won't pretend to be a genius of genres I don't like at all, but some of the boss themes do have the typical screamo vocals in them, which is what I was referring to specifically. I don't have an issue with the instrumentation, really. The Cyberspace levels all feature some type of techno focus, and some of them particularly lay on the heavy beat drop sounds of dubstep. I'm not saying you're wrong, you probably have a good point, but I wasn't trying to provide a blanket statement about the genre of every single song on the soundtrack.
you are blatently wrong
If you don’t like the heavy metal of the Titans then that’s the reason why you may not like them, which is a Fat hot take
@@best_mate456 I don't like the titan fights because they're super jank and don't offer anything engaging gameplay-wise. The music tries to carry them but it's not enough for me.
@@best_mate456 girl its punk metal
It really sucks that you have to constantly reiterate "here's what an opinion is", and similar statements. I've followed on Twitter for a bit and at this point I can kind of use your tweets to find immature people to block.
People *still* don't get it, unfortunately. I've had people in these comments telling me that I've stated my opinion as objective fact throughout this video. They simply do not understand basic media literacy.
The player's choice awards was both annoying and hilarious. I remember reading a tweet of someone having a blood spill from the anger they got from sonic losing a popularity contest. Classic sonic fandom.
No way, I thought some person cutting themselves over it was extreme
@@Skadinky708 I found that same comment again and they said they almost popped a vessel from the anger just to specify.
I feel like the reason why sonic fans act this way is because the franchise has been bashed on for so long they don't wanna hear or see bad things happen to this series. So they go full blown defense mode because they don't wanna see criticism to this series since it's been going on for years.
@@jarrodeaston6373 Hit the nail on the head.
You did a really good job with this dude. I really hope this feedback will be taken seriously. I enjoy Frontiers both modded and unmodded and I can tell that we might not see to eye on exactly what Sonic should be in some areas, but it really doesn't excuse any of the issues you mentioned. I find the behaviour of the fandom to pretty embarrassing at points since some are just completely unwilling to acknowledge obvious problems. Especially when there is so many of them.
I wish more people could realize that you can like something while also being critical of it and knowing that it can be better.
Thank you! I always welcome other opinions and strive for a community where anyone can feel free to express them, even if they're against the majority opinion.
which problems? the problems he mentioned are just things he made up
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 Care to elaborate..?
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 If you can watch that whole video and seriously not see any issues you literally have no brain. When people tap your head they hear echoing.
@@telekinesticman idk wdym
The fact that Sonic fans are still spamming 10/10 scores on Frontiers' metacritic user score page to this day is crazy to me
Its acceptance to mediocrity and never wanting to see the games genuinely be daring to even touch basic things that have been with sonic since his first ever game, aka momentum
Yes because how dare someone like a game frontiers definitely has issues however it’s still pretty fun despite that
@@sometf2player752 spamming 10/10s constantly is done to boost the games score so it looks alot better; literally if you read the first part of the sentence you would see that he was complaining about sonic fans who go and spam the game a 10/10, not complaining about sonic fans who like the game. Reading comprehension skills isn’t your best area i see
@@tjay_o yeah that’s my bad I was pretty tired when I first read that comment you don’t need to be so rude and insulting about it
@@sometf2player752 yeah you right, i apologize for the rude part. It was unnecessary and now i feel bad
“I Don’t Want to Turn My Brain Off, I Want to be Engaged” Brother You Said That SO PERFECTLY That I literally couldn’t agree more
You have no idea how long I've been waiting to see this one. As someone that actually enjoys the game a decent amount I'm incredibly on board for the people who do not like it or even want to rip it to shreds. I think the criticisms are absolutely deserved especially with fans getting way too defensive over a game which is very clearly lacking in many aspects.
Not watching it right now though it's like 1 am for me, this video is a watch later away though, can't to hear your extended thoughts when I get to this 🙏🏾
You know what it is and I just thought about this now, the lack of proper teaching from veteran to newcomer. The experienced devs who used to work on Sonic titles or Sega/Atlus titles in general have left SegaSammy due to mismanagement. BUT, that resulted in the new people who were hired not get to learn from the people who came before them due to one thing or another. So it creates this problem to where you want the games to reach the potential, but they lack the proper teachings and experience they would’ve gotten from the veteran devs. They need proper guidance to know how they can build upon the next project.
It is BUT
Nothing your right
its only lacking for those who want to see those lacks that includes you and decent? you didnt even play the game yet then
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 who are you directing this towards because I enjoy this game a shitton
@@warriorofthegrandline2y618 not you starstorm
I am so glad you use sonic utopia as a point of reference because that's what I was expecting with this game and I'm very disappointed thats not what we got
Utopia was exactly the foundation I wanted to see built upon way back in 2016/2017. I said after Forces came out that "maybe an open world Sonic could work" if it was done like that, or a "Mario 64 style" game. We got something halfway in-between, but it got every single detail wrong. I specifically said in that video I didn't want anymore dash panels or automated loops, complimented by actual rolling physics, and we didn't get any of that stuff. A real shame.
@@telekinesticman I completely agree but I guess that's what utopia and srb2 are for until Sega figures out how to do sonic 3d mania
Finally someone critics this game as a game, and not as a sonic game. The standard had been set so low that people praise this game, but imagine if ratchet and clank’s sequel was of this quality, or the new Mario game.
I do feel like many Sonic fans are only able to compare Sonic games to other Sonic games, meaning they get very confused when someone like me comes in and compares it to every other (better) game that's done the same things.
@@telekinesticman our only hope are fan games no joke. I've seen that you like sonic utopia, I suggest you to try project hero, I think you already know about it but just in case...
@@fashvr9961 yep, still waiting on the new demo! Project Hero looks great.
@@telekinesticman Have you heard of P-06 yet, that fangame has had me thinking about 06 and that fangame. I've been playing and thinking about wayy more esp the game's feel(P-06) and the soundtrack which is one of the best in the series.
@@fashvr9961 You complain about how "people have low standards for Sonic games" and then start talking about how our "only hope" is unfinished proof-of-concept fan games? People can't like this game because Ratchet and Clank exists but you're going ga-ga over a game that will never be made in the first place?
What they did to Tails in this game is soooo sad
Not only do they go out of their way to remind you of him being a bitch in previous games, but actually attempt to canonize such an inconsistency as "part of growing up. It's like the usual "characters are allowed to have feelings" argument with no irony.
Sonic calling him "little bro" and going on about him growing up only to have him do nothing for what's left of the game makes it worse. Tails is back at square one, just an eternal second banana whose merits are simply not good enough
What I would've loved to see is Sage planting seeds of doubt in Tails' head since Save only relies on numbers and calculations, saying that Sonic will not come out of this one alve. Thus giving Tails a reason to be concerned for Sonic, saying that what if he DOESN'T come back this time?
But Sonic replied saying he'll need his friend to get him out.
That's it. No mentions of past mistakes, no need to remind him how "grown up" he is, and no need to be a whiny and complaint birch about it.
Flynn's to blame too for writing this shit.
Even though I think Sonic Frontiers is a good game, I do like this critique on the game. The issue you highlighted with challenge and level design is my biggest issue with the game. There's essentially no skill ceiling with Sonic Frontiers, no platforming mechanics that separates a good player from a bad player. The best Sonic Frontiers player interacts with the level design the same way that a bad Sonic Frontiers player would, and that's by running on a dash pad or a rail. Meanwhile with games like Super Mario Odyssey and the Sonic Adventure games, while those games were very easy, they had mechanics that could help the player maneuver the level creatively and ultimately be rewarded for it. Sonic Adventure had momentum and Odyssey had Cappy. Sonic Frontiers has no special feature that provides a skill ceiling for players. You just run fast. I think that was overall your best point and I think the shallowness of Frontiers' movement is starting show. I haven't had many reasons to replay it anymore because of the restrict and linear platforming.
Also I fully understand your frustration with the fandom. Something I've noticed as a creator is how insecure many Sonic fans are. Especially with Sonic Frontiers. It's hard to critique that game without getting a wave of people dogpiling you. They're afraid of critiquing Sonic, they're afraid of admitting that Sonic may not be one of the best franchises, most importantly they're afraid of someone undermining their favorite franchise. It's just critiques at the end of the day, critiques that doesn't have to affect your enjoyment of the game. I used to be scared of critiquing Sonic, but I've become so desensitized to Sonic fans white knighting over the franchise. I've hit a burned out phase with Sonic and I'm just gonna say my critiques and people who get upset will leave, life's too exhausting to fight Sonic fans.
I recommend you keep doing your thing, I think you're a great critic because you explain your stances very well and you don't sugar coat anything. You also seemed to be very educated on what makes a game good to the majority of players so I got respect for that. Great video!
Honestly, after watching this video, I've noticed how much of a toxic sonic fan I was. I especially noticed that, after finishing the mario movie (the new one), I was salty that IT WAS GOOD. I hope I can try stopping myself on hating on other people's opinions more, online AND IRL. I thought you were going to shit on your game with another negative review, but you just stated your opinion about the game. And that's ok, not everyone is going to like the game, and I honestly agree with some... no, most of the gripes you had with it.
Godspeed, Telekinetic. And thanks for helping me find my flaw... in a way.
What's really depressing is how, despite people like Hugo Martin laying out id Software's game design philosophy in plain English, that one tweet by DOOM's official account of "you control the buttons you press" is constantly misappropriated by people to excuse game design choices that are directly antithetical to what he was talking about.
There’s some things I disagree with like the music, but comparing Frontiers combat to Platinum Games/DMC combat was the biggest agree I’ve felt watching a Frontiers Review
Sonic fans seem to only compare a recent game to other Sonic games, when they should be comparing it to the standard of gaming combat or their peaks, and in that regard, Frontiers is basically at a bottom level in that regard. Doing a fight in DMC, Bayonetta, MGR, Hi-Fi Rush, etc. vs Frontiers isn’t a competition at all, it’s just a massacre in quality
Absolutely. I didn't expect it to match DMC5 but like, at least give me *something*
I believe that harsh critique of this game is more important than it’s been for any previous Sonic release before it. Sonic fans have reached a level beyond Pokemon fans of defending mediocre products like their life depends on it. Even if you enjoyed the game (hell, even I enjoyed it a decent amount), it makes me sad that the standard of quality for Sonic games has fallen so low that this game is considered good or even acceptable.
sorry for liking a game ig
One of the best lessons to learn about being in the Sonic fanbase at all is to know the effects of a blind dogpiling, if it hasn't been made clear to a fan what it is already.
Great video.
why do they need to give tiny rocks in the floor collision anyways? couldn't they just have interacted with IK bones instead?
I find this game fun but so many of its design desicions are so baffling LOL
At this point, I do think toxic positivity and blind defending are going to ruin the series. Sonic Team is looking for feedback to improve the experience, and most fans basically are blocking them from getting any. How are the games going to improve if they don’t know what to prove upon?
Its both, toxic positivity and negativity, its not one or the other
@@Banana807 True, but I think toxic positivity is more prevalent in the community than negativity
They have improved the game thankfully,it seems they finally understand that automatic platforming is not really fun and try to do something with more room for player expression
The game is still junky and lacks any art design,but it gives some hope for the future
Sega is listening to criticizers more then people who are positive the franchise will be fine
@@Banana807The toxic negativity is definitely quieter right now. Any critique on the game has been relegated to smaller RUclips channels. Otherwise you either like a game that’s actively afraid of Sonic’s mechanical identity, or you’re called ungrateful(Whatever that means when you’re paying money for something), impossible to please,(Because a game that needed massive updates to get anywhere close to up to snuff is clearly the best a studio can do.) or toxic because I dunno, that one dude who holds vaguely the same opinion as you did something bad on the internet that’s not actually going to effect anybody
I heard someone on Reddit say that Frontiers has "found a good level of emotion to appeal to appeal to all audiences". Literally HOW, though!?
I mean, every character is all like "Woe is me, wah wah wah😭" or "wah, I'm useless, why's everything sooooo sad, boo hoo hoo😭😭😭😭!"
Seriously, that sounds more like something that would only appeal to emo people in High school or college instead of all audiences.😒
I prefer that over the stupid ass cartoony stories we been getting before frontiers
@@Banana807 that's like going too far into the opposite direction. even the dark age stories were more fun than this
Ya see why I don't like this story of Flynn's contributions?
uhm no you literally interact with them and talk to them thats what counts nothing else sonic is main character thats why he should be only playable not others
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 ok so what?
I love this game
Yeah I said it because I didn’t play a Sonic game for 10 years
I knew Forces existed before Boom: Rise of lyric did
And playing Frontiers made me realize just how much I missed the Charismatic Sonic is.
You're allowed to like the game dude, lol. Declare it loud and proud!
This review is only here to give his personal criticisms, it's not trying to make you feel like your own experiences are invalidated.
Thank you! This video basically adressed and broke down all of my problems with Frontiers and the fan response to it
Now THIS is a good critique video, it explains every (practically) error and mistake instead of "Game bad", and even as a person who loved this game as much as generations i agree with many gripes you have with the game
Imo this game is a perfect BASE for something incredible
I agree with this on paper. In very broad strokes, Frontiers is a solid foundation, but the execution is very poor. If they develop this idea further, I feel as if they need to completely start over in terms of actual game mechanics. Keep the fundamental ideas of exploring large open spaces with Sonic, but do it all from the ground up again, instead of building on top of Forces, which was built on top of Lost World, which was built on top of Generations, etc. Hopefully no super glue next time.
@@telekinesticman yea, if they will do smth like that, the next game could be the best in the series (also waiting for spin dash and playable characters, I think this would be a great test of it here)
@@telekinesticman then expect to wait 10 - 20 years like mario games in the past
@@whistheangell spin dash and playable characters is useless imagine getting bored with sonic while being a sonic fan
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 tf are you even talking about?
(sorry about the long essay in advance lol, there's just a lot i wanted to say)
First off, fantastic video as always, absolutely worth the wait.
I'm really sick and tired of seeing people get swamped with harassment because these people can't hold their opinions to themselves. It's gotten so much worse recently ranging from petty discourse like quill length, and Utopia vs. Frontiers, to absolutely asinine claims like IF FUCKING PHYSICS BASED MOMENTUM IS ACTUALLY NEEDED, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WAS EVEN AN ARGUMENT IN THE S O N I C FANBASE. It's just gotten way out of hand and people really just defend mediocre decisions as the new norm and if you disagree, you're not a true Sonic fan. Because REAL Sonic fans love EVERYTHING about Sonic, except the classics and Mania apparently, because then that makes you a "classic purist". It's honestly baffling how many threads I see made on people in their own space just talking about something and then get attacked. It's the literal definition of, "I like waffles", "oh so you hate pancakes?"
I'm so sorry that you and countless others had to deal with the unacceptable levels of harassment for simply speaking your mind. It's disappointing to see so many settle for less when we can all have and should have so much more for the price tag. I'd say Sonic fans deserve better, but they're behavior proves otherwise. It was also, and still is, very disappointing to see a lot of the larger creators in the community double down and add fuel to the fire, when they simply could've said nothing at all. Instead, they galvanized communities that took it upon themselves to destroy any negative opinions or thoughts and attack everyone who was even just a little critical. If you don't agree with the current general opinion, you're gonna be outcast fast in online Sonic spaces. It's very unwelcoming and ABSOLUTELY full of gatekeeping. It's simply unfair and it's been boiling my blood for months. When Twitter eventually implodes, or when I finally leave it sooner rather than later, I'm staying clear of social media and especially around Sonic spaces, because it's gotten way out of control, and I want nothing to do with it, besides supporting folks like you. I really hope this video gets the attention it deserves, because a large chunk of Sonic fans need to look at their actions and grow up. They need to hear it. I'm grateful for the smaller voices within this community, like yourself, because you all speak from the heart and nothing more. No #SonicSweep or PEAK hype culture or conflict of interest... just honest thoughts and critiques that blossom from genuine love for this character rather than blind and toxic defense of a company that truly only cares about your wallet.
Rant aside, I nearly agree on all of your points. This is a very comprehensive and fair critique! Especially for someone like me, who hasn't really played a lot of action heavy games like DMC or Bayo. Well, well, done on that front, I understood everything that you said.
This game really DOES feel like a student project at times, and that really disappoints me. I just played Alien Isolation for the very first time recently and to completion, and I wouldn't even have known that the game was developed and published by Sega if their logo wasn't on the product. It was shockingly well made for being under Sega, and especially for a game from 2014. Isolation shows me that Sega DOES have the potential to create genre defining titles, but they choose to cut corners for their mascot and allocate more resources into other franchises and let Sonic dry out with a poor budget and the wrong team. No doubt that Sonic Team is definitely pouring a lot of love and passion into the series, but it only goes so far under poor direction and management. If fans need to teach the director on how to make a Sonic game, clearly that person is not in the right position even if they have the best intentions. I've never seen a media property this mismanaged before, and especially one as prestigious as Sonic the Hedgehog. The past 10 years have been filled with overpriced titles that clearly needed more time in the oven with unnecessary Deluxe Editions, DLC, and bundles for extra greed. And the fact that ANYBODY defends ANY of this is simply frustrating and disappointing because Sega gets the wrong message. Sonic fans will eat anything with him on it up. Personally, Forces was the nail in the coffin for me, but I gave Sonic Team one last shot. I'm not buying the next mainline Sonic game.
Here's hoping that the indie scene continues to produce incredible games at a fraction of the price with easily double the content and/or replayability and made by teams that are fairly compensated and aren't crunched to meet ridiculous deadlines. AAA games lately are in a downward spiral and I've lost my trust in them. But one playthrough of a game like Outer Wilds has so much more depth than Sonic Frontiers could even DREAM of. Even games like Pizza Tower, or Celeste, or Hollow Knight, or most other indie hits are way more competent titles than most mainline Sonic games. Sonic fans desperately need to play something other than Sonic.
Anyway that's enough of me rambling and ranting. I appreciate you taking the time to read all of what I had to say! (again sorry for the essay lol)
Unfortunately I can't attend Sonic Revolution as it's across the country from me and very inconvenient, but I really really hope that you have a fantastic time with your friends! You deserve it, especially after all of the awful attention that was brought your way with the Frontiers pre-release garbage. As always, keep it up with these videos and your content! I love hearing what you have to say and these videos are really really well made and I look forward to whatever you have coming up next. Hopefully it's not Sonic related lol. Have a nice day (:
This happens with just about every sonic game that comes out since after generations. People tried to defend Forces for MONTHS before everyone just gave up and decided it was bad. I’ll even say that I also tried to defend that game just out of desperation of wanting it to be good. I really enjoyed my time with frontiers but could also understand all of its criticisms and I really think it’s time for people to grow up and realize that Sega and Sonic Team aren’t your friends and it’s okay for other people to not enjoy a product or for you to even admit that your favorite series has a lot of problems. Criticism in theory should be a good thing in the long run because if you continue to give a multi million dollar company leeway then they will continue to give you the bare minimum.
I remember people saying that Sonic Forces was a good Sonic game. All these RUclips review videos and clickbait video thumbnails. It took a year or 2 after Forces came out for everyone to agree that Forces sucked. so many "sonic tubers" changing their opinion on the game when they praised it previously. I think Frontiers is in this honeymoon phase now. And one thing I know is no matter the games quality Sonic fans will eat it up. Hell they said Frontiers should have been Game of the Year LOL
Well said! You put it together perfectly. It reminds me of this girl on youtube 15 years ago where she put up hundreds of videos of herself singing to popular music in a low screechy voice. The girl did not have a good voice, she was overweight and she had autism. The point is that this girl was attracting so much attention for the wrong reasons, she got hundreds of comments in her videos of people being completely positive to her, no negative comments as they all felt sorry for her and not one of them had the heart to be honest and tell her that she didn't have a good voice. As a result of this feedback she never thought anything was wrong and continued to make videos of her ''bare minimum'' talent. If someone had been honest with her she might have tried to improve, but out of fear of getting 50 hate replies posted back nobody could be honest and tell her she had a bad voice that would never make it in the music industry and continued to feel sorry for her.
I'm in the camp that neither Colors or Generations deserved their praise at the time, and their success was based SOLELY on satisfying shallow demands.
You cheeky, sneaky bastard. 31:48. That was a HELL of a misdirection and solidifies your point perfectly. Well done.
Amazing video, Frontiers has received praise for simply being not as bad as Forces, but it's clear that the bar is in hell. The only way as a Sonic community can help get better games is to STOP BUYING UNFINISHED, UNPOLISHED, POORLY DESIGNED GAMES! We need to stop settling for "not as bad" and let SEGA and Sonic Team know that our dollar is worth actual good work.
I wish this was in practice, I really do. But the corporations aren’t totally dumb, they know when to let the toxicity drive up their image to consume more products regardless. The toxicity in Sonic is very much encouraged by several parts in the base.
Thats not how it works. If sega sees the decline in sales they won't make better games they will just make less. The reason why the next sonic game is getting a higher budget and manpower because frontiers sold well. If it didn't we would keep getting low budget 60 person games.
That’s not true…at ALL, sonic frontiers is praised because it is genuinely a good game, the open world is fun,the combat is cool and unlike anything we’ve seen in the sonic saga before, the ost is top 3 gaming soundtracks, the story is amazing,the characters seem to have grown up , the bosses are jaw dropping need i say more?
@@Ermonacodimontagna The open world looks generic and they even reused the same environment from the first island for the last two. Frontiers literally looks like they took the Modern Sonic model and stuck it into an unfinished unreal engine world. Not to mention the horrible pop in and random objects that ruin any sort of synergy or momentum. It looks laughably bad, especially for a triple AAA game made by a company like SEGA. If this was any other popular video game franchise like DOOM or Legend of Zelda, people would be relentlessly bashing on them. But the standards for the Sonic series for the average audience has been so low that they’re just used to it. The combat is shallow and has no skill curve, fluidity, or strategy to it. How is it fun when I can hold down a button and spam the same moves? It’s just shallow compared to games with actual good combat like Metal Gear Rising and Bayonetta, which Frontiers is obviously taking inspiration from. Also top 3 OST in video game history? You need to play more video games before making a bold claim like that. The story is just the characters constantly referencing lore and moments from previous games combined with shallow melodrama. By characters “grown up”, you mean awkward performances and voice direction that sounds like a fandub? The bosses may have epic themes but they provide no challenge and are just a spectacle. Also the final boss is just embarrassing. A purple moon with the gameplay of Galaga? How is that epic? Did you just ignore all of the criticisms that TelekinesticMan made or are you too stubborn to admit that Frontiers has a bunch of glaring flaws that make it average at best and frustrating at worst.
@@Ermonacodimontagna The open world is shallow and uninteresting just like the combat, the story isn't good (the writing is), the bosses are nothing more then spectacle in practice they're shallow as hell.
As a diehard Sonic Fan, I will suck up my pride to say that I did try to look past these issues just so me and the fanbase can say "Sonic Team did a good job" and so SEGA can fund Sonic Team with more money, less restrictions and more innovation.
Sonic Frontiers was supposed to be a message from SEGA and Sonic Team to the Sonic Community that "We are done messing around. We will deliver high-quality games from this point on", but a few months after release, I heard alot of disheartening news about SEGA pressuring Sonic Team YET AGAIN, by cutting the development team to LESS THAN 60, attempting to release the game A YEAR EARLIER, and _slightly_ loosening Sonic mandates (which are still terrible).
Which is, to no surprise, why the Sonic Fandom entered a honeymoon phase when they got a game that was better than Sonic Forces, but STILL can't mark up to AT LEAST Sonic Generations. We just didn't wanna accept that Sonic Frontiers was actually worse than we made it seem, so as to boost Sonic Team's morale. Because we know DAMN WELL this game will decide the future of Sonic, and if it was badly received, then well Sonic is screwed.
>Sonic Team wants to make a new Sonic game
>SEGA says sure, but you must release it under impossible deadlines and unfair restrictions
>Sonic Team makes a mid game because of SEGA's mandates and impossible deadlines killing innovation
>Critics say "Sonic has had a bad transition into 3D" for the 9000th time because they have seen this happen WAY too much
>Sonic Community blindly looks past all the issues of the game before and a few months after release, until they wake up and realise "wow this game sucks"
>New Sonic game gets review bombed to their most HONEST scores.
Result: SEGA cuts Sonic Team's funds to work on other games, Sonic Team's reputation gets tarnished again, Sonic community gets EVEN more toxic, and people wonder why Sonic isn't doing so hot.
Until SEGA allows Sonic Team to cook, Until Sonic Team finally remember how to make a good game and until the Sonic Community finally get their hands on a PROPER game, the Sonic Cycle will *NEVER* end
Also, it depends on Sonic Teams design and choices on making the games to. Even with a good budget, people and time, it can still not be good.
@@nerodoesart5886i doubt it at this point because coming from someone who likes frontiers like me, lots of the ideas in frontiers imo are good, but they end up seeming cheap like or bare minimum because it feels like they didnt have the enough budget to keep experimenting or expand upon it more, so its all segas fault yet again, its been like this since sonic 2
I seriously doubt sonic team genuinely decides to do these bare combat system on purpose, it all seems a budget and management issue not a development issue
@sebastianperezboeff985 No, usually the higher ups gives the developers time and money then whatever the director wants to do is what they do. Only if the higher ups agree with their concept and greenlits it.
For example, cyberspace controlled poorly is because Morio Kishimoto thought it was a true Sonic experience and changed the physics and feeling of the controls, so players don't cheat, which he said in an interview last year.
The open zone level design was a last second decision, he planned to not give the open zone any level design and was going to leave it for cyberspace until someone said it was boring and wasn't fun, then adds it in later on than at the beginning.
At the beginning of development, he thought about adding the spindash, but went with the boost then adds it in update 2 instead of being part of the game at the very beginning.
He thought the game was long enough being 20-30 hours then saying that Frontiers didn't need difficulty since he considered it padding like most games that challenges the players like KH, FF, Persona, SMT, DMC, Bayonetta, and more. Then makes a extreme difficulty in update 1.
He also admits that the inclusion of old levels was his idea and he thought people wanted this since Lost World, so it wasn't entirely Sega's fault for that, but says that he will make all original levels next time.
So, yeah it seems more like an issue with the director. You have to know that whatever idea and decisions are not entirely the higher-ups and goes to the director since how the game plays, sounds, looks, etc... That's the director, the higher ups have some involvement of development, but not enough to mess up development unless by other sorts.
I'm also not giving Sonic Team and the director a benefit of the doubt for poor decision making even though that's been a thing for years, but I will still say that most of it's issues comes from Sega.
I feel that I'm the only one who blames all of them, referring to the director, Sonic Team, and Sega instead of sugarcoating it.
I think they need a new director since I think he isn't good and someone could do better possibly.
Sonic Team needs some restructuring or moving to Sega of America and getting brighter people.
Sega of Japan needs to change entirely since they still have a old mindset and been making issues not only Sonic, but other series like Yakuza. Maybe getting a new business person that treat their developers well and give them enough that they need like Nintendo. I think Sega is the most important than the others I stated.
So, I think all three of them needs a change for the better.
Also, budget doesn't make it immediately good if you don't have a good team behind it and that can go for animations, TV shows, movies, and games.
One punch man season 2 had less budget, but had great animations since they had a legendary director and a 3-5 talented people to help others and carry the team. Breath of the wild had a director and lead game designer that knows what their doing and know what Zelda is suppose to be and was able to take it to a new level that caused Sonic Frontiers to take some inspiration and ideas from, even other franchises did too.
There is also evidence of that it depends on who's making the Sonic games. There is this piece of information that I barely hear anyone talk about for Unleashed and Colors.
Back in 2010 in a interview little before Sonic Colors' release, Takashi Izuka said that they had 10-12 million dollars in budget for Colors and it was much more than what was given for Unleashed budget meaning that it could be 7-9 million possibly for that game, but who knows. Unleashed looked like it had more time and effort than Colors, which is clear from the in-game animations, cutscenes, and overall scope of it. So, it basically depends on who is directing the games and the talent behind it, which colors had a lot of the Unleashed people except Morio Kishimoto, who was the director for that game and the lead game designer for Secret Rings and Black Knight at that time, which was not received well for the most part. The director for Unleashed helped with making the Hedgehog Engine 1 and attempt to make pixar quality visuals and animations, polish, and sense of Speed for the gameplay, which set the gold standard for the series going forward until now with Frontiers. So that's very telling on the whole development side of things and the director for Unleashed left after it released and is working at Square Enix and doing other things.
I don't fully disagree with you that it's Sega's fault, but I do put some blame to the team making the game as well since... Their making the games, not the publisher. Most of the talent is gone, so they only have Morio Kishimoto, who has a quite a bad track record with games varying from being bad, mediocre, or just decent... Nothing more. Most of the talent are working at Capcom, Square Enix, and Nintendo, which are mostly Sega's fault on that, because of it's bad environment for developers and not giving some of them the freedom to do something else, but mostly Sonic Team on making new IPs. The people working there worked on FF, Mario, Zelda, and DMC, so yeah... Sonic Team does not have many talented people, they had some return to Forces, but they had a minor role due to management I believe. So, they didn't lie about Forces having people who worked on Colors and Generations, but most of them were not working on the most important parts of the game like level design, programming, lead game designer, and more.
Regarding fan toxicity I have to say that I've been spending some time in Sonic community servers on Discord and what I've found there are to be some of the worst types of people, not all of them mind you, but some of these individuals lack social graces at best, and empathy at worst. Or rather, they display empathy for one thing while snarling like a rabid hound at other things. I also witnessed the dogpile you had when you pointed out the magnet issue on twitter, that was embarassing to say the least.
Personally, I enjoyed Frontiers for what it was, but near enough everything you said I agree with. There needs to be improvement, as much as I wish it was, Frontiers is not the be-all, end-all of Sonic experiences, far from it. I say this after my "honeymoon period" with the game is over and I'm looking at the very obvious flaws.
I'm rambling, all I wanted to say was that I had a fun resurgence of Sonic enjoyment in my life the last few years. However, it's being somewhat undone by a fanbase of awful people that seem to condemn all kinds of drama while simultaneously begging for and feeding off of more.
Very solid video.
I can't comment much in terms of my own opinion with Frontiers. Because its one of the few Sonic games I chose to step back from once I really got an idea of the directions it was headed in.
It certainly... sounds like there's areas it improved on from Forces. But in the end, it just feels like another painfully confused Sonic game... after a 5 year wait from a near decade of painfully confused Sonic games. Which is what REALLY sours me about this game. Even when giving Sega ample time to improve... it feels like we've barely fixed a lot of the problems this series has had in both recent years and from the start.
Even with P o k è m o n, and its very painful state right now, you get the sense there is passion there... But the yearly release schedule is just bringing down the series' dev time and overall quality. If they got time to cook, maybe there'd be something there to work with due to the countless decent conceptual and gameplay ideas in their modern games.
But with Sonic, to me, there is NO excuse. They just do not know what to do. Because they continue to show no sign to improve the games, OR the overall brand. Frontiers, the Sonic movies, Prime... they all have different energies, different casts, different everything... no synergy or consistency. And that reeks of Sega just not taking Sonic as a brand truly seriously to me right now.
And I think what especially gave me that impression is when we've had to hear stories of Sega gimping Sonic Team's budgets for YEARS now... getting so bad to where they have to reuse levels from a single 2011 game... only for them to gladly spend nearly 1 BILLION on Rovio. A mobile developer who made... Angry Birds... Cool.
It just baffles me, and screams they do not truly understand their issues with both Sonic, and their own company, currently. And have no real sensible plan to understand those issues.
Welcome to Sega Sammy Holdings, Knux. Actually, just Sammy Holdings because ‘Sega’ is only in name at this point for the sake of recognition. Same with ‘Sonic Team’.
I feel like a lot of the control problems stem from this weird open zone aesthetic they went for.
Because of the uneven terrain they amped up sonic's stickiness to 11, which means that sometimes he sticks and sometimes he launches at completely random times.
If they just had normal physics and flatter ground, those launches would feel natural, and random sticking just wouldnt exist.
But instead they had to compensate for their bad design
I find it very fascinating that so many people on Twitter are getting mad about something I never actually said in this video in regards to DOOM Eternal, yet only a handful of people have even mentioned this in the comments on the actual video. Almost as if, when people watched the video itself, they understood what I actually meant and didn't take something completely out of context from a short clip on Twitter.
For the record: I did not say Sonic should play like DOOM or even Zelda. I did not say Frontiers is bad because you can stand still without being killed. I did not say that Frontiers needs to be hard, especially not as hard as DOOM on Nightmare difficulty. I said that Frontiers is so easy and automated that it never asks you to play it properly, just like the boring IGN footage that everyone hated. I used DOOM as an example for how *that game* pushes you to play it a certain way (aggressive, fast and up-close to enemies wherever possible). Same with Breath of the Wild, I wanted to highlight how the game is about paying attention to the world and your own stamina, because that's how *that game* functions.
Frontiers has nothing like this at all. The platforming and combat are so mindless, and the game never asks the player to improve. As I said in the video, it encourages complacency. It's not about being hard (even though I played the game on Hard mode...), it's about driving engagement. I completed Frontiers on autopilot, rarely did I need to pay attention or think. Boost in a straight line to the next waypoint (a common problem with open world games), bounce off automated springs, run through automated loops, mash a single button to defeat enemies, parry with no regards to timing, etc. This is why I didn't enjoy Frontiers, none of its mechanics are very interesting, and the game never forced me to use them.
Imagine if you didn't need to use portals in Portal, or if Kirby didn't require you to use Copy Abilities (or inhale enemies/objects to use as weapons) to progress through the levels and bosses. It's not about being hard, but games need *some* level of challenge. Something, anything. Frontiers has almost nothing.
Please watch the "Challenge Matters" video that I suggested - ruclips.net/video/AS-tDsN1KX0/видео.html
Anyway, I'm very happy with the reception on the video so far. Fans of Frontiers are being respectful, and those who disliked the game are glad to hear from someone who shares their opinion. It even hit 10K views in less than two days (a new record for the channel), and I'm now at 6K subs, so that's pretty cool too.
Keep crying over nothing.
@@riqopowpow me when I lie
@@riqopowpow Personally I'd argue that the people making up something I never said are "crying over nothing", but that's just me.
@@riqopowpow hold this L
That reminds me of Rain World, it has a simple movement system, but it keeps you engaged because even when you're doing something "mundane", you can do some advanced maneuvers which require timing and precision to cut time, and the way the game is made allows the procedural animations to flow into one another and chain movements really smootlhy.
Even when it doesn't really look like you're doing much if you're just watching gameplay, once you know how to do the techy movement, there is not a single moment where you aren't pressing a button and preparing to press the next one in that game.
I haven't watched the video yet but I think your opinion is wrong no matter what.
Excellent video I hate it.
As long you don’t harm the RUclipsr then that’s alright. I do kinda hate it as well because he just looking at the issue not the actual content like the titans fight he hates it because is all janky. He does not care about how insane the gameplay is.
I prefer having good content like update 3 other than just fixing bugs other wise we not getting any more content
Sonic Team can't decide between the "Roller Coaster" level design of Sonic Unleashed onward or the "Skate Park" level design of Sonic Adventure 2. In Sonic Adventure 2 it was more about "How fast can you beat the stage?" rather than "How fast can Sonic go?"; this difference in design philosphy is why the SA2 levels are so much more engaging, with many opportunities to perform tricks throughout the stages which in turn rewards you with a faster route & higher rank overall. With Modern Sonic it feels like you're just watching Sonic blitz through an on-rails spectacle which while visually appealing isn't very satisfying from a gameplay standpoint.
To be fair I grew up on the boost so I’m more forgiving 😂
i never saw unleashed's design as "how fast can sonic go" as i feel that it's more in line with sa2's approach. i love both of those games and have loved them for a decade and some change because they bothb share in common that challenge/reflex factor, which forces the player to ENGAGE with the stage mechanics.
i don't think sonic's issue has ever been playstyle it's just been creating and engaging game with the challenge that the series needs. it's what makes eggmanland or final rush so great to me.
Nah I disagree, SA2 stages feels like glorified QTE because it's too focused on giving cistant tricks to do and you need to be precise with them. It makes the levels restrictive dhich is nit what the earlier sonic levels were about. I ironically find more freedom in the good boost levels than any sa2 speed level
I just wanna say I always appreciate your brutal honesty and takes on everything Sonic related. Rather or not if I happen to have the same experience or opinion as you never changed my mindset that if someone has something important to discuss, positive or negative, it’s best to keep an open mindset. And you’re a genuine real one for having guts to discuss and disclose the toxicity, all of which I 100% agree with, this is why I always respect you man, thank you for putting this review out. I may have enjoyed Frontiers a lot, I may have enjoyed the movies a lot too, but I always appreciate you speaking out your issues and experiences if it means this series can have a better future. Much respect to ya!
Been waiting for this review and i gotta say despite me liking Sonic Frontiers I respect your opinion. I really don't want nothing to do with the toxicity of the Sonic fanbase because it is so draining seeing people being harassed over a video game and Jebtube's video pretty much proved the entire point of how Sonic fans go crazy over the smallest things of people talking about the game both positive and negative in a toxic way. Sonic Frontiers is a game i like but i really want to see major improvements especially rolling physics, an engaging combat system like Tales, DMC, and Platinum games because i love those kind of games as well. Anyway great critique video as always love your content and I hope one day you can find a new Sonic game that will amaze you
The screamo music makes me laugh every time I hear it; not invoking "Sonic" at all for me
Brings me back to those nostalgic Windows Movie Maker videos from back in the day tho 😂
Even as somebody who loved frontiers, I can agree with some of your points. It sucks that a lot of Sonic fanbase can’t let other people have opinions, especially around half of the Frontiers side of the fanbase. Great video though, even if I may not agree with some of your points.
You don't know for how long I've been patiently waiting for this video.
Thank you very much for bringing this to light.
Love this Video man, perfectly articulated many of my complaints in a way I never could.
Maybe it's just me, but the toxicity in the fanbase feels like a weird ripple effect from Sonic 06's reception. The (deserved) negative backlash led to a complete pivot in the direction of the series, leading to some aspects fans enjoyed (e.g., multiple playable characters, open level design, etc.) being removed. I wonder if fans are worried that it'll happen again if anyone criticizes the things they enjoy about the games. That's why they were so defensive of Forces before release ("a return to the boost gameplay!") and now Frontiers ("please keep iterating on open-zone gameplay and don't pivot again to something totally different!"). Considering the well-received Generations lead to Lost World and Boom though, this defensive attitude is totally pointless.
Confirmed that the next sonic game will be open zone
06 as bad as people put it to be including you
I'm a Sonic fan and I enjoyed Heroes Shadow Sonic 2006 Lost World Forces and Frontiers does that make me a bad person?
I watched this video in its entirety and I agree with everything you said. My friends and I have been making these same points for MONTHS. It is very relieving to hear another person with these thoughts against all the obnoxious defense squads who come after you for any slight negative comment.
These types of videos are really interesting to watch for me, because I agree with nearly every critique you have of the game. But where those issues kill the game for you, they really don’t bother me. The way I see it, the lowest points of the game were the snags on rough terrain and the forced minigames (I have never fallen through the terrain or anything like that in my 50 hours so far, though the rail bug you mentioned did happen to me twice), and the highest points were so many great character moments, chaining together those level design chunks into one long run across the massive islands which feels amazing, combat encounters against enemies like Tower and Ninja which are so fun on hard/master mode (or without upgrading), and those titan boss fights (the first of which genuinely left me needing to catch my breath on my first playthrough, it made me so happy to see this series do something so unashamed and just cool after so many years). The game is absolutely flawed and if someone wanted to argue mediocre I couldn’t even tell them they’re wrong. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I’m really happy that it exists. Every game since Sonic Colors’ new cutscene direction has made me feel completely alienated, like the series gave up on itself and wanted to play into the “this series is a joke” sentiment. That’s why this game means a lot to me. Screw everyone who harassed others over their opinions though. So disappointing how toxic people continue to be.
I just finished Frontiers for the first time, 33+ of gameplay (because I 100% all islands and side stories). I gave it a 7/10. I legit had more fun with Forces, because it was a cheaper game, less filler, and the fun achievements kept me coming back.
Not long after competing Frontiers I finished The Murder of Sonic, and my God, I want more of that! I want bright graphics and music! I want fun and well written interactions between the Sonic cast. I want more of Sonic being effortlessly cool!
I believe Frontiers in the far future will be one of those Sonic games taht fans will look back and despise with passion, very much like a large portion of the fandom now hates Colors.
Bro did not miss once
People think this game was goty material. I cry. Well, human beings are smart, we can make fun out of things that are unfun.
You are a dick if you genuinely believe that
Like if they think its goty material and they are not harrassing anybody let them be
Sonic fans are so insecure I find it genuinely funny, not just because of how they react to criticism of Frontiers, but for most "peak" Sonic games that seems to be the case, they just can't handle people who don't blindly accept their consensus. I have a history of saying Sonic Unleashed isn't that great, the daytime stages are easily the best part of the game and I do have fun when I play them, but everything else is just a chore, having to collect medals to progress adds nothing substantial to the game other than artificially making it longer, the Werehog stages are also boring as hell with the combat not really doing anything that other hack n slash games like God of War, DMC or Ninja Gaiden haven't already done much better.
The type of responses I tend to get when I talk about how overall mediocre Unleashed is are largely angry people spouting nonsense or saying "skill issue", which isn't an argument and says more about them than me, considering they're the ones implying a basic and barebones hack n slash like the Werehog sections require any kind of skill.
Anyone seeing those things has never actually played a DMC, Bayonetta, or God of War.
i actually disagree to an extent; the werehog, while you could argue it's barebones, i thought was still fun regardless. some of his moves were really fun to pull off and chain together, i love his cartwheel and spinning needle attacks. i honestly thought the combat in frontiers was worse (er, *looked* worse, i should say. i never bought frontiers lol) than unleashed, which is baffling to me. we're two console generations after the wii, ps3, and xbox 360 and games have somehow gotten worse.
maybe it is a preference thing in my case, though, or maybe i'm just not good at hack and slash games, because i've played bayonetta recently and could only barely tolerate it, i really didn't like playing it most of the way through. i guess i should note that a couple of other hack and slash games i like include no more heroes (i especially like nmh 2, but the rest of the series is fun as well) and...sonic and the black knight, if that counts.
collecting the sun and moon medals was never a very huge issue for me when i first played; i remember getting stuck before jungle joyride day but then realized that i could scavenge the hub worlds and do some of the side stages to get more sun/moon medals. i don't know, it never quite bothered me, but i understand how you feel; maybe the sun/medals should've only been used to unlock extras, like concept art. i actually really liked how the wii/ps2 versions of unleashed handled sun and moon medals: you can get up to three of them in one stage, and it's tied to what rank you get in the stage. they only unlock extra rooms in the gaia gates which have a short platforming challenge you can do, and you're rewarded with either extra lives or some extra in the gallery, like concept art.
@@lolita_cat I prefer Frontiers' combat because at least it has a better grasp at how a Sonic-style combat system can work, since it maintains the fast pace and the flow of Sonic's movement while adding melee attacks to the mix. Like, you don't switch to an entirely different playstyle that apes God of War just so the game can have combat in the first place, you're still playing Sonic but with melee combat, obviously has a lot of room for improvement, but yeah.
What makes or breaks Unleashed might very well be the Werehog, if you're able to enjoy it, then it makes sense that you'll ultimately love Unleashed, as you're gonna spend more than half of your time with the game with it. Personally, I never even replayed Unleashed after finishing it for the first time, every time I want to go back to this game, I just load up my completed save file and play the daytime stages.
I don’t condone the more extreme actions that certain fans take, but I think it’s important to realize what made the fanbase this way. Years of being used as a punching bag and laughing stock of the industry has pretty much worn out most people’s patience, I for example was bullied in school for liking Sonic, to me, it’s not surprising that they are biting back at people so harshly nowadays because even when they get something good like the movies or Frontiers there’s always some contrarian or troll that comes in to spread negativity when they’re just trying to enjoy something good for once.
Sonic is not free from criticism nor will it ever be and while I don’t think that the fan base will get treated better for acting defensively rabid towards criticism I do think it’s important to understand why things have gotten this way and try to understand where it’s coming from.
I have an absolutely astronomical amount of respect for you for being one of the few people to understand that opinions CANNOT be objective and games CANNOT be objectively better or worse than other games.
It’s pretty sad that the best 3d Sonic game to come out in the last decade, is a fan made remake of 06. But seriously, mad respect for having the courage to speak out, and share an unpopular opinion about the game that many people in the community are afraid to share. P.S, I would love to see you do a review/critique of P-06, even if that style of Sonic gameplay doesn’t click with you.
Thank you! I think P06 is very impressive but unfortunately I feel it inherits most of the issues I have with the original game anyway. I don't think I'll ever do a video solely about it, but I've responded to a few comments asking similar things.
@@telekinesticman Such as ? The way certain characters are relegated only to very short sections ? Or Shadow's vehicles being filler ? That's one thing I can agree on, but on the whole P-06 showcases that the foundation was overall good.
My personal biggest problem is not at frontiers itself but rather the larger industry and beyond, the way I see it, is not that people are been more harsh on sonic than with everyone else, for me, is that they are being, for a lack of a better word, more honest on how they feel about the game than with others. A lot of other triple a games like Halo infinite, Pokémon, bayoneta 3, howarts legacy and even the recent Jedi survivor have a lot of the problems in frontiers and even some exclusive to their own, but the critic scores usually don’t reflect that. Even compare in other mediums, it drives me insane that people have a problem with the references in frontiers but they give it a pass in the Mario movie, a movie I feel is only elevated by its references. What I’m trying to say is, a lot of people say that sonic should not be judge in an standard of its own but rather at the standard of the rest of the industry, and sadly to say, I think lately, sonic is at the standard of the majority.
I thought that too, like i agree with everything said in this video that sonic should meet the standards of today but... nowdays, only a few games and companys meet that standard, if you look at the rest of things, most games nowdays launch with lots of bugs *cough* pokemon scarlet and violet, and even other triple A games do as well, at this point its not just a problem with sonic, its a problem with the industry as a whole, bc if you look at games from back then to the games from now, almost all those games didnt have day 1 patches
Sonic is considered one of the worst game franchises by the main stream , but then you have pokemon who launches a unfinished game and somehow it gets good sales and some good reviews, at this point, its about who you like best, not about the actual products quality
@@Banana807 I think that even morally speaking there is a lot to be said, like I also agree with the point of toxic positivity, something that even stands to this day, but six months later of release I now see a lot of toxic negativity where people can’t enjoy something without someone telling them that they don’t have standards for enjoying it to the point of being immature and in one case calling someone the R word. Even in other mediums like the new knuckles show, while I understand the critic that people have to the plot, there were a few “mature” fans throwing the word copaganda around again even tho nobody said a thing when spider verse also had a major character being a cop, a movie exclusive thing. To be clear I also see this in other franchises like Pokémon fans accusing a RUclipsr of being a pedo for liking the new games or the whole Mario vs sonic discourse.
Also, last point, I’m all for critiquing this game but I do draw the line at calling the developers lazy like some reviewers do, at the end of the day we don’t know what happens close door and a product being bad doesn’t reflect the effort of the developers.
@@Banana807 eh i
Don't think it's this bad. Bo matter what happens in the fandom, people like sonic, especially haters.
Also well, different surroundings, all of my timeline and people's opinions i value have said that mario movie sucks becsuse of these refrences, and somehow sonic movies are kinda better lol.
For me, it’s the exact opposite. It seems like everyone gives the Mario movie shit over things that they would give the Sonic movies a free pass for. The liscenced songs for example as everyone and their mother absolutely DESPISES the Mario movie using them yet everyone was more than okay when the Sonic movies used many liscenced songs as well. Another example being how everyone was ready to make fun of the Mario movie and hating it for having fart jokes, flossing, cringy dance numbers, etc. (it didn’t), meanwhile when the SONIC movies do those EXACT things that those same people apparently hate so much, Sonic gets a free fucking pass and it’s okay when Sonic does it. There’s always double standards or hypocrisy somewhere. It’s not a purely one sided treatment where Mario gets a free pass for something that Sonic gets harshly criticized for, it’s always been a case where Sonic gets a free pass for something that Mario gets harshly criticized for AS WELL. No offense, but you’re kinda showing that hypocrisy right now where you give the Mario movie shit and say that it’s only elevated by its “references” meanwhile you give Sonic Frontiers a pass just because it makes it a lot of references to the good Sonic stories. Look it’s true, the Mario movie has some fundamental writing/pacing issues………… just like how Sonic Frontiers has a lot of fundamental game design issues or how the Sonic movies ALSO have some fundamental writing/padding issues and cringy Hollywood trends. Either way, it’s all a matter of how you see fandoms and their fandom wars/cultures.
Solid video. I was especially glad to see someone finally mention the fact that this game's idea of traversal more often than not amounts to running unimpeded across vast, flat, empty wastelands. I thought that would have been a much more significant talking point in common discourse around the game considering it's practically unavoidable and it's what you'll likely spend a majority of your time on the islands doing, but it comes up surprisingly little in even the more critical videos I've seen on the game thus far.
In fact, with a lot of what you and others have said along with my own thoughts, I'm honestly not too sure if Frontiers really is "a step in the right direction" at all. While Forces was as barebones a platformer as i think it could really ever get, Frontiers perhaps takes the silliness a step further into outright fundamentally contradicting its own design, littering what should be an open environment with almost strictly linear, scripted engagements which fail to leverage the open world structure at all. It's a game at odds with itself, which at the very least, isn't a criticism I could lob at Forces. That game knew what it wanted to be, it just wasn't very good at it. Frontiers meanwhile feels like a tech demo; a bunch of ideas in consideration for whatever might become a real game in the future.
Hopefully any prospective sequel can identify what ideas are worth taking and which aren't from this experiment, but that hope does not at all translate into expectation, I'm afraid to say.
Your breakdown of the honeymoon period infecting the fandom and turning people violent against any level of detraction from the game as though it were some kind of personal attack on their beloved Sega to a point of hypocrisy was also on-point. This emphasis on the meta of discourse is an emphasis few reviewers have, and while I wouldn't want to see coming it from everyone, you're thorough enough in covering it to where I'm glad you're one of the people who are, along with Jeb.
In any case, with the sheer vigor of Frontiers' surprisingly positive reception, I also went out of my way to keep quiet on my thoughts on it at first out of worry of being swamped in the vein you outlined, so it's nice to be reminded I'm not crazy for thinking Frontiers is anything less than stellar. This honeymoon period has lasted quite a bit longer than I thought it would, but hopefully it's wearing off and more civil critical discussion can take its place.
Looking forward to whatever's next from you.
I really loved Sonic Frontiers when it first dropped. Months later I can say that I just like Frontiers. I like this game because of what the next game and the game after that might look like if that makes any sense. When Forces dropped it was arguable whether or not Sonic Team tried but with Frontiers it's a no brainer that they did TRY to make a good Sonic game and overall with Fans they have indeed made a game with a solid reception. But as a person who majored in Sonic-ology🤓 It keeps me up at night on what Sonic Team was thinking with a a lot of the design choices they made. Piss easy puzzles and bosses, Infinite parry, reused assets and level design, stiff controls in cyberspace, useless drop dash, giving us difficulty options when in reality the hardest difficulty can be beaten by a 5 year old who's blindfolded. They're so much that they did wrong design wise that a common person with no knowledge about game design would look at it and ask themselves "wait a minute what in the actual hell was I thinking coming up with this?" It pisses me off that a whole team has a design mentality that shouldn't be acceptable in todays modern age of gaming. If they want to bring Sonic to AAA standards they need a whole shake up on the creative process. But at the end of the day I still have an appreciation for Frontiers, especially with the modding community holding it down. I'm also glad Morio Kishimoto is all forward for the harshest and honest of critiques from many fans, and is planning to take as much feedback into consideration for the DLC's and new Sonic games. However, Morio Kishimoto can promise a lot, but promises doesn't mean anything if the execution is hot garbage. I'm glad Frontiers was a success even though as a game it's honestly undercooked but with SEGA promising a bigger budget and more man power, I really hope the next Sonic game TRULY ignites the Sonic "renaissance" or whatever the new sonic era fans coin up is called.
Really great video here. While I don't hate the game, I feel it's very lacking and your ending sums up my thoughts very well. There is a severe lack of polish in the overall game and there is no satisfying movement or challenge. I only played Generations a few years ago and I've had miles more fun with that and day stages in Unleashed than I ever had in Frontiers. Everything in those games feel very tight, polished, and clean, and it's that level of quality I want to see again. I feel as if every game since Colors (aside from Generations) has had the same issues throughout and Frontiers doesn't fix those things. I want to be able to just look at a Sonic game again and say "Now that's a game," but as of right now I can't. It seems as if Kishimoto cares about the series and wants to do right by it, and I can only hope he gets the opportunity to do so and if he can't, then maybe someone else.
This game to me reminds me of sonic 1, where that game was a foundation for something while having its gripes. This feels the same to me so I have hope that they can improve the base this game provides as it’s been stated this is the direction they want sonic to go in. Imo I think this game is really fun despite its flaws and I always like running around the islands mindlessly and doing platforming, but I respect you going out of your way to talk about the issues with the game despite the fan base being super toxic about criticism.
I need more people to point out how weird the song Vandalize is for a Sonic game lol. I've read the lyrics. What does it have to do with anything that happened in Frontiers? It's not a bad song but is it appropriate?
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to portray the grief that Eggman feels over losing Sage (who may as well have been his daughter at this point) at the end of the game
It makes no sense because it's literally just licensed music. It comes from One Ok Rock's own album from 2022, it's not on the game's actual soundtrack.
True. I know they changed a word or two to remove x rated implications. Its such a last minute song choice.
Surprised you didnt talk about the horrendous 2D controls. Easily the worsf in Sonic history.
Oh the Cyberspace controls in general are just terrible, absolutely. There was more I could have said, but I tried to focus on my major gripes with the new formula, and less of what was already said by others. I mostly just wanted to avoid spending months working on a project about a game I think is pretty bad.
@@telekinesticman About that, I have a personal theory and I would like an opinion on this. Do you think the control is bad not because Kishimoto couldn’t figure out how Sonic could control or is it because the people who worked on the games control had little to no experience working on a Sonic game?
If we look back at the history, experienced veterans who had worked on acclaimed games(not just from Sega, but also their subsidiaries) left due to mismanagement. But the moment they did leave, the newcomers who come in to replace them had to chance to learn from the people who came before them. So each new game is a different ‘Sonic Team’ with over 50% of them being fresh to Sonic, in turn - not familiar with the schematics of controlling a character that is fast. So do you believe that the lack of proper veteran to newcomer basic fundamental teaching experience is part of the reason why Frontiers control suffers? Personally, I feel if I have to input a customized control setting for a character that the player has to figure out, without taking the game’s level design and physics into account…well I feel that’s failing part of your game’s vision.
Accessibility is good to have in a game for different audiences, but it shouldn’t be an excuse to cover up the director having no clue how to solve the character’s movement in a case by case basis.
Over a week late but finally got around to watching this. Always love hearing from you.
Personally, I was still able to enjoy Sonic Frontiers on a very disconnected level of "well I'm deriving some form of fun from this", but ultimately I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, though maybe I'm a little more lenient when it comes to things like Knuckles' voice, etc.
I "enjoyed" Sonic Frontiers (not sarcasm, just hard to explain my feelings without going into depth), but I still feel the same sense of dread that I've been feeling since Sonic Colours released. That sense of uncertainty and fear that Sonic will never genuinely try to be not just itself, but it's best self.
I'm extremely glad I have other series and games I enjoy, able to overflow my heart with passion and excitement (Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, Mario, Ace Attorney, etc), but there will always be a Sonic-shaped hole in my heart, hoping that one day, the right people notice, and create a Sonic game that makes me believe again.
This explains how I feel....it's "fun", but I don't feel the same rush, exhilaration, and joy as I do playing previous main titles, mainly the 2000s titles.
I feel disconnected from the game too. It didn't give me what I was looking for.
I watched and honestly, you hit the nail on the head for most of the things and some I didn't even consider could be problems.
I too didnt like the weird fuzzy material covering Sonic, and honestly his eyes being overly reflective look weird.
I agree with Sonic being nailed to the floor when you're trying to play with him is an issue. I'd really like for them to polish up his physics a bit as well.
I didn't like how the characters sounded. Tails was the only who sounded somewhat normal, but Sonic's voice has reached an all time low....LITERALLY. The philosophy behind the voice change is poorly thought out and unjustified given that Sonic has been in serious situations before, and his voice didn't need to drop an octave to portray that.
The fact that Roger is so unfitting that him NOT sounding like the character is more pleasant to listen to is just.....I don’t why or how people keep making excuses for this dude. I have never seen so many excuses, dismissal of evidence, and ignorance of logic from people when it comes to Roger and him being unfitting...
People can like him if they want, but disingenuousness and stubborness is sad.
He sounded better in Frontiers than he has in any other game, but now he doesn’t sound like Sonic AT ALL.
I do understand the game was going for a more authentic approach and that this direction was somewhat necessary, but to me there is no justification for why Sonic should be sounding like this if he as a character hasn't changed. *looks at Iizuka*
I will say he did give a more authentic performance, and it sounds better. So, I'll give him points for that.
Amy sounded depressed and meh. I already didn't like her actress's Minnie Mouse take in the first place though.
Knuckles is tolerable, but like Roger, the jockish thing he's got going on is off putting. I can hardly tell him and Sonic apart at times.
As for the arcs they go through, I understand that they are trying to restablish them, but it was just poorly executed.
Tails's arc was just a 4th wall break that made me even more annoyed. Don't need to explain more.
Knuckle's arc made more sense in the Japanese version. I highly prefer him still being the responsible guy he is and wanting to learn more about his heritage than him having this out of nowhere jealousy of Sonic and wanting to shirk his duties. That's not him.
There is no reason for them to go their separate ways because they already DO THAT. They have their own lives already. They say, "Long time, no see" constantly whenever they see each other.
I don't care for Sage a bit. She did nothing except pester Sonic and get depressed at Eggman because she wanted him to be a father to her. The only noteworthy thing she did was sacrifice herself, and it meant nothing because she just came right back. She should've stayed dead. Her relationship with Eggman seemed like something straight out of a fanfiction.
"My dear daughter". Please give me a break....😑 I get that they're trying to humanize Eggman, but he has already showed his human side before. He is a narcissistic evil genius FIRST.
So, thank you for this video. I do agree with MOST points. Ignore the haters and people who want to misconstrue what you said.
you've perfectly described pretty much everything i've felt about this game and have helped relive some frustration caused from seeing this game get immense praise from the community
great video
Hey at the very least people outside the fandom care about sonic again, i mean, the murder of sonic the hedgehog got great reviews.
@@Banana807 Well, I mean…… it’s still a very simple free April Fools game. There’s not much to really hate about it or find offensive. It’s honestly hard to even call it a real Sonic game as it plays nothing like how other Sonic games play out. It’s really just a well written April Fools murder mystery visual novel game with Sonic characters slapped on it. Nothing much else to it really. And like I said it’s free so of course even professional critics are gonna mostly like it.
oh so you're upset that people like the game? noted
@@kao7143 yeah pretty much exactly like you said, he's upset that people like the game. people like him can't handle others liking things. pretty sad...
Dude it’s so confusing having two games with the same lettters, I thought this video was you re-reviewing Forces
I think characters like Knuckles & Shadow would fit better in this combat-centered openworld, exploration format. However, the gameplay, story, & atmosphere overall is still fairly underwhelming & unsatisfying.
Toxic behavior of fandom is very difficult topic. Let's talk about opinions. When we express our opinions, we usually express how we feel about it. Of course, we use arguments or facts, but it is still way to express how we feel. If there are some people who start harassing you, it is usually because they are very vulnerable and they want to defend what's important for them in very extreme way. That is why the best way in my opinion is to adjust your reaction to it (I am not saying, that you should change your opinion, of course no, but in order to prevent further damage for your mental health). It is extremely difficult, I know it myself, however, sadly, you can not change people's reaction. There will be always people like that.
I love Sonic Frontiers, it gave a lot of positive emotions for me. However, I am not saying that it is perfect game, far from it. I can clearly see why people feel frustrated or angry. That is why I constantly remind myself, that every opinion is valid. Even if it is very extreme one. What I am trying to say, that it is just my experience, what other person feel is absolutely different experience. They are not even slightly related.
Sorry for such chaotic opinion of mine. I also experienced not very pleasant events in Sonic fandom. I just want to express some genuine support for you. What you experienced of course is terrible, and feel sorry for you. Thank you for your video and good luck.
I love Frontiers for what it tried to do, it's not perfect but it gives me hope that when we do get another open world Sonic game or even in the DLC. It builds upon the original and makes it better.
I just completed Frontiers for the first time, and for me it is a decent game with high highs and really low lows. The second island is, imo, the best portion of the game.
I think Sonic fans (myself included) love Frontiers not for its own merits, but for what it represents: hope for the future. Hope that future titles are better. The same used to be true when Colors was released back in 2010, but now the same fans look back and hate Colors for being the catalyst to the "Meta Era".
The true Sonic Cycle is when Sonic fans reevaluate past titles and change their opinion. 06, Unleashed and story book games are now loved and "peak" Sonic. While all 2010's (minus Mania) are bad. I think the same will happen in the future as people reflect on Frontiers.
@@bluestar5812 for me its a good game, for me best part is the shortest island
Excited for this review man always be hitting the nail on the head when discussing the sonic franchise.
Always a peak reviewer
I’m glad I’m not the only one lol. I was kind of getting annoyed that a ton of fans are praising this game saying “sonics back”! And it’s true that this is the first sonic game sega made that isn’t mid, in a while, however just because they made a pretty good game (after 10 frickin years) doesn’t mean they’re out of the woods yet. They still got a pretty long road ahead if you ask me
I also agree with you at 7:12 it seems the ENTIRE fandom really likes and cares for their relationship but I cannot. It’s too rushed and forced for me to care
Also, also I agree with you about sonics voice 6:18 he literally just sounds like Roger trying make a deep voice 😂
I was excited for "Sonic Frontiers" since I played the demo in London, but it only took me an hour of playing on my Nintendo Switch to conclude it was an unengaging hodge podge.
I never really experienced any of those bugs and very rarely the "glue shoes". It's a shame that others have to deal with the pop ins and all of that.
The game isn't great but I feel like it's the start of something better, also i really like the soundtrack in my opinion but I do understand why others don't, it's not like how we're used to.
All in all, great criticism it's annoying to see everyone turn a blind eye to the games faults
@@labingus Yeah. One of the most frustrating aspects about the discussion surrounding Frontiers is that, unlike you, many people use "Well this never happened to me!" And "It's a stepping stone for a future game!" As an EXCUSE for Frontiers' glaring issues. It's not.
It might be a bad comparison since they're two games going for a completely different gameplay loop but it kinda floored me just how much this game felt like a unity tech demo for someones fangame when Spark the Electric Jester 3 actually felt like it was made and produced by a larger studio despite literally being made by one dude. It's not even that i'd want a Sonic game to be exactly like that either, I just want the series to at least achieve the kind of quality that game and other Indie platformers have instead of Sonic Team putting way more on their plate than they can handle (It's seriously incredible to me how much faith people had in this game despite the last game they made was awful while being considerably lesser in scope) instead of focusing on what they can feasibly work on and polish for a full release.
Edit: This comment was posted too urgently, I didn't notice this part 26:06 on my first "watch" as I mostly kept the video as a background noise and was truely focused on something else, however I stand my ground on saying more people should give this game a try, it's really worth it regardless of comparisons.
I shouldn't be that guy, but there's a High Speed 3D Platformer out there that manages to fully exploit the physics of its character in satisfactory levels to run through and explore, have you ever played Spark the Electric Jester 3?
If you like games with a high skill ceiling where you are always in control, with plenty of hidden mechanics that you can pull off only if you have a good understanding of your abilities, I can only recommend you to take a look at it
There's just the story that is a direct following of the previous games so expect to be confused on this part
Didn't watch the full video
@@bluudevil4483 Whoops yeah my bad, since I mostly kept the video as background noise, the part were spark was mentioned didn't instantly hit me, I'll edit in a justification real quick
@@SpongePierre it's all good my guy, thanks for spreading the good word about the goat indie game.
I liked Spark 3! Wasn't amazing, but was a lot of what I've been missing from official 3D Sonic games for a long time.
@@telekinesticman ah good XP the game's dev lake feperd is currently working on a racing game, but confirmed there will be a sequel to spark 3. Looking forward what he can further improve upon in the future
a well put critique of frontiers, with well intention to see sonic team puts out significantly better quality sonic games. One of the points that I have to disagree is the screamo (melodic metal rock to be precise) part, it mostly had positive reception and I would hate seeing them removed. I wish someone could link this video to Kishimoto minus the latter half of the video or put a bulletpoint tldr, that would be great
As much as I want the series to improve, I think we need to leave the man alone. He's been asked so many weird questions and is going to get himself in trouble if he keeps answering them, especially after the comments on 2D Sonic games and Infinite. Sometimes I feel like he doesn't realise the pot he's stirring by casually dropping this stuff (although I still think the 2D Sonic mention wasn't really intended as any kind of hard confirmation of a new Dimps game or whatever, even though the leaks suggest one is coming soon).
@@telekinesticman I don't have twitter anymore but many weird questions doesn't sound good. Although, I'm sure they keep track about the many legitimate complaints this game had so I'm not too worried about the series improving. One thing for sure, he successfully make some hype about the new 2D game
Great video! I appreciate your honesty and criticism about how this game is and the courage to post a video like this, knowing how the Sonic community is. Can't wait until your channel blows up!
A salute from one Ego Orb pfp to another 🫡
I salute you my friend 🫡
Easily the best video on Frontiers I’ve seen, captured all my thoughts on the game.
splash dash, says hi
Hey, just came across this video and... wow.
To see the fan base act like this is just, laughably bad.
And for me, frontiers can have it's problems here and there, but overall solid.
You opinion stands and I respect it, and can agree here.
If the Open Zone design was good the lack of momentum wouldn't be that big of a problem, if the movement was good, that could wash away the crappy Open Zone design. If the Cyberspace stages were great that would wash away the crappy everything for me, it'd just be like Sonic Adventure and Unleashed where I really like those games because I don't play the parts that suck when I go back to them. But no matter how much I try I can't find the objectively good in Sonic Frontiers and I honestly dislike it more than Forces because at least it was over in a couple of hours and I could laugh at how bad the story was
32:40
Well, this series was already inconsistent to begin with
It's been like since i was a child that i am in the sonic fandom
And i still have absolutely 0 fuking idea why people get so upset when a sonic game is called bad
Like bro, it's just their opinion, it won't stop you from enjoying the game
I hate the people doing that because it makes people outside of the community think that all sonic fans are like this, but it's a minority :/
Sonic games will only get good if I take over as director
I’d like to preface this by saying I genuinely love Frontiers and dicking around in the open zones and speedrunning cyberspace levels scratches an itch that a 3D Sonic hasn’t done for me since Adventure 1 (I even find that there are a lot more parallels with that game and this one than people realize)
But with that being said your criticisms of the gameplay are absolutely warranted and I’m not sure why so many people get hostile when anyone brings them up. I mean, the most satisfying parts of this game are when you get to fling yourself off of ramps and rails to do shit right? A more involved physics system and a design philosophy more focused on doing that and on achieving core-level play over sticking to casual play would only be beneficial lol
Good video! The IGN plot twist at the end was genuinely shocking lmao
Another Banger Caelum! I'm always blown away how well you are able to articulate your thoughts. Great work!
11:25 This is definitely the worst homing attack in the series, it's slow it kills all momentum, and you can't move in the air after it's such a pace killer that in the cyberspace levels it's recommended that you avoid using thr homing attack at all to get the S rank because of how slow it is 2:16p.m. 5/24/2023
Hope to see a critique on sonic superstars
Not really planning on it. The game was so boring, I don't have much to say. I've mentioned it briefly in other videos, though.
Fair enough @@telekinesticman