Farewell, Sonic... Forever?
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- At long last, so has arrived the awaited conclusion of what I dub "The End of a Dream | Sonic the Hedgehog."
What secondary purpose was teased and pried at for this whole retrospective? What does Jeb think of the Dark Age Sonic games? Will my channel die as a result of this video?
... Only one way to find out.
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Here's my Twitter, if ever you wish to see what I'm up to: / jebtube
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Hey guys. I... probably should have done this three months ago. But I was unsure of how to do it. ... I was also lazy. That's the more honest part of it.
I want to make a pinned comment here saying that Aaron Webber and Tyson Hesse have actually seen this video. I figure it's worth saying not to gain clout or anything, but more so to maybe encourage people to ease up on forwarding this to them, as they're... definitely aware of it. But let that not give you the impression that I am ungrateful towards your support and urge to inform SEGA of your desire for change. Now, for the people who want to know what those two thought of the video, they were very polite and respectful upon being greeted with it. Tyson claimed that he actually agreed with a lot of things in the video, but of course, I would never want to pry into what those things would be. It was that simple. Webber, however, (and don't worry, he said it was okay for me to tell people this, as I thought it was important) sent me a direct message on Christmas morning. ... I'll never forget it. I won't bore you with the details as, honestly, I don't want people to be starting a forum debate on what was said, but in sum, he shared with me a story of his own background, he expressed some disagreements with points leaning along the social side of Sonic, and he encouraged me to take the raw passion that he sees I have for Sonic... and use it to directly have a hand in the series, like he once did. A big theme being that a lot of the people I criticize are, in truth, like me in some way, on the other side. So as I've done on Twitter, I want to reiterate that nothing in this video was meant to be a jab at someone as a person, none of it was meant to be disrespectful, it was about my frustrations with the art, and not so much the artist... hurtful as that may unfortunately be.
One last note from me, though: This video was genuinely never supposed to be any kind of call to arms or anything like that. Truthfully, I didn't think most people would agree with it. I thought I'd be laughed at, called a hater, ostracized by the community. But I didn't really care, because it was what it was: a ranting addendum to the real meat, the videos on the Adventure games and Heroes. Point is, I'm really excited and intrigued to see so many people coming out and saying that they've felt similarly to me for a long time, and I think it's cool that they want to push for change as the Classic fans once did... but the mindset I had making this video was "Fuck it, I'm just a kid to everyone else, I may feel that I'm right, but it won't mean shit in the end, so, eh, I'm done." So I can't say I'm really joining you guys, even if you may have proved me wrong. I don't really want to focus on a series that feels like a sinking ship with occasional flares being lit when I can do other things. But I urge you, more than ever, to not simply parrot what I have said. I want you to think for yourself. If you truly agree with me, that's awesome. But I think the Sonic series has a huge problem with people just saying what's hip, what's cool, and what's accepted. Please, let the folks at SEGA know what you think Sonic should be... but make sure it's what YOU think. This era of dank memeage and Classic Sonic nostalgia will be over before you know it. Even Mr. Webber assured me of that. As Sonic goes forward, I want people to as well. And the future won't be much brighter if people don't learn from mistakes of the previous era. Be passionate and unmoved, but also be courteous, be open, and have nuance. Thank you.
The adventure renaissance is eventual. They are running out of content as we speak. But that's why we need to be at arms over this, to ensure that it's done right with a critical eye. ...When it finally dawns
I just want Sega to flex their creative minds and find some of that ambition that they had in the 2000's leading up to generations. I don't know if it's just me but I feel that as far as the general mass for sonic goes peoole always had the problem of just praising that one good thing from the bad of his gaming career, a daimond in the ruffle if you will instead of acknowledging all off good as well as bad if that makes sense. You say that the series is basically a sinking ship and while I don't disagree with that to an extent I still feel that there's hope If they just start taking notes on all of their highs and lows and go based off of that moving forward.
I've been a die hard Sonic fan for years and it pains me to say that if Sega and Sonic Team don't get their shit together for the next Sonic game then the franchise will die
@@LeaveMeAloneFBI This. I feel you man. This comment described my feelings as a hardcore sonic fan perfectly.
There's nothing filling the "sonic thirst" i have rn, i used to be so amused. it felt like they put out content non stop, i was always happy with sonic in my house. i didn't even care what kind of game it was.
part of me is slowly losing interest in the franchise but I can't help but play unleashed like 5 times a week.
idk man :/
If they delete the sonic twitter account ill be happy
"I'm not a fan of Modern Sonic, I'm not a fan of Classic Sonic. I'm a fan of Sonic."
That was the best quote I've ever heard from a TRUE Sonic fan.
Same here
Bradyn Newcomer exactly
What type of Sonic does he mean?
Jonah Abenhaim Sonic as a whole, he doesn’t favor one type over another. He just likes Sonic.
I agree
The 5 stages of grief:
Denial 3:45
Anger 8:11
Bargaining 19:38
Depression 19:51
Accepetance 20:41
This is a criminally underrated comment
That’s probably why it got a heart
I feel like denial should be 6:26
@@7-BIT im in denial too ive got this thought in my head thinking sonics gonna go back being shonen like , i do miss the good old days of sonic being e rated, its like greiving the loss of the good old days before 2010
That hits me, as a sonic fan, really hard.
*”God, I miss the old Sonic Team.”* I miss just how creative and passionate Sonic Team were with their games back then, not only just with Sonic, but with other games like NiGHTS Into Dreams. They were so ambitious, passionate, and creative with that game, that even Miyamoto himself said that he wished that he would’ve come up with the idea of NiGHTS. When you literally have Mario’s creator state that he wished that he was the one who came up with your idea, then that’s when you know you have truly made something special and beautiful.
I notice just how much people truly care about Sonic as a character and as a franchise. They care about his design, his personality, his stories, his gameplay, and all of his other friends and how they’re portrayed. If people truly didn’t care for Sonic nor the series itself, then they wouldn’t be this loud and vocal about it as they are. They wouldn’t be constantly stating on how much they want the character and the series to truly change and for Sega and Sonic Team to show actual care, creativity, passion, and improvement with it. Movie Sonic would’ve maintained his old design if fans and even non-fans weren’t being so vocal and critical about it. And because of them, it did change and they managed to get Tyson Hesse, a well known and respected Sonic artist, on board with fixing the design since he understands it. Say what you will about the series and the character himself, the fact that people genuinely care this much about it proves just how important the character and the franchise is to gaming and animation. Pretty much to art as a whole. And I believe that is a beautiful thing alone.
(I originally posted this as a reply to a comment on Sonic Team, but I feel that this comment should be its own comment, so excuse me for repeating myself here.)
I miss when Sega was passionate in general
I want them to go back to that
That's all I want..
Damn you wrote an essay
Then there is Super Monkey Ball. Oh, where do we begin....
@@skunksecond It was SEGA (Corporate) decisions to Remake Blitz. While I do not mind blitz but for real the HD was a disappointment for many including myself (Somehow it's worse than the 2006 wii release when I played it last time) and they say that if SMB:Blitz HD sell well enough that they WILL make SMB3 or remake SMB1/2. Which is fucking scummy... I only brought Blitz HD because I grew up with the game to see how well it holds up. Not that well in the end... Fuck the music is god awful! Thankfully there is a patch that you can add all the 2006 release music in for the PC release.
Other than that SEGA is being a really un-creative company for the rest of the world... In Japan they are still doing fine of course. All those gambling cabinets and Arcade places are still very popular there!
2001, Sonic dies: Sonic has asked me for the first time to do something for him. I won't let him down! I won't give up!
2017, Sonic dies: SONIC HELP ME!
Character de-evolution at its finest.
Earth : It's war, people dies, eggman take control over the planet.
Sonic : Hey,''sup buddies ? Did i miss ya ? Let's finish this level ! It's so fun when i'm with MY FRIEND.
Tails : ... *die inside*
Behold Perry the Platypus, THE FLANDERIZATION-ATOR, with this machine, I will make all intresting characters, 1 DIMENSIONAL, everyone will become badly written, and I will take over, THE TRI-STATE AREA
Seriously, That line when tails said it pissed me the FUCK off till no end...
All the Adventure games where tails have to stand up for himself WITHIN' 2 GAMES (Adventure series) is fucking gone in a instant only to be a little bitch again and sit there helpless ONCE AGAIN. *Terminate the fucking video game writers already, FUCK EM.*
Fkn hate this
I feel like the core of Sonic's problem is identity. Sonic was originally created to beat Mario and just be the definition of cool. Being cool was such a big part of Sega's marketing back in the day that of course it found it's way in their mascot. After Sega fell from grace and Sonic was no longer a rival to Mario, I feel that the franchise slowly lost it's identity. That's why we have so many Sonic games filled with inconsistent stories that don't line up with the timeline. Sonic is a meme because that's what's cool right now. Memes and for the LOLS, is what sells to kids. Sonic encapsulates the very issue that lies deep within Sega. The lack of creativity and passion for the product has only become more apparent over the years. That's probably why people love Mania now a days. The game appeals to nostalgia and it's clear that a lot of passion and care went into making Mania. If Sega still had the same passion for Sonic that they had back in the early 2000s, Mania wouldn't be as memorable as it is.
Thx for the heart man
Correction, if Sega still had the same passion for sonic that they had back in the early 2000s, mania wouldn't exist.
@@lightgivemepower6425 Not really a correction, more so an opinion.
Yeah, I don't like Mania because it's obvious nostalgia bait, but because it has soul. The devs put so much care into it and *that* is why it's a masterpiece.
lack of identity is exactly why, I couldn't agree more. Sonic has so many different iterations of it that Sega themselves don't know what Sonic is supposed to be anymore.
I'm just gonna say it: I miss the Dark Age. Not because they were of higher quality, but because they tried. They all tried and cared so much about taking the Sonic series forward, no matter how shitty they could be: the Storybook games were incredibly creative, I liked how Shadow tried to expand the lore of the series while giving Shadow some resolution; and even 06 genuinely wanted to be THE Sonic game for a new generation. You're absolutely right about the over reliance on Mania and the classics (i feel particularly strongly about thus, since I don't really like those games sans 4 and Mania), but I also want to add that I'm tired of Sega acting like there weren't any good ideas during the Dark Ages or even the Adventure era. The Dark Age games have been called a lot of things" poorly designed, trash, unfaithful, rushed, glitchy, and they deserve all of it. But a word that's been rightly used to describe the current state of the series, that I've never heard been used for the Dark Ages?
Lazy. I've never heard anyone call 06, Shadow, Unleashed, or any other game then lazy.
The meme humor needs to stop, the half-assing everything is getting old, and the disrespect side characters have faced the last 9 years is just disheartening. I'm rapidly losing interest in the series, which sucks considering how much I love it. But great video, man.
I feel like the reason this happened is because Sega saw how even the most divisive of Sonic games were still selling and making money, it made them give Sonic Team the note that it doesn't matter whether the game is well received or not, as long as Sonic is on it, it will sell and so that's why after the experimental dark age, we got these mediocre games.
I really feel this. One of the biggest criticisms of the dark age is that the games took themselves too seriously. But you know what, I don't see it that way at all. Like you said - they were trying. They had a vision. Everything from the music to the story and hell, even the voice acting as corny as it could be, was indicative of people who were not only trying, but were at least having fun. Now it's all *"LMFAOOOOO BIG THE CAT SONIC 06 GOTTA GO FAAAST!! MEME MEME MEME CHILI DOG CHILI DOG"* and it's crazy because it doesn't have to be like this. Self awareness is great, but it's what you do with that awareness that counts. You can either use that awareness for self critique, or you can sit in it picking your nose and shit thinking it's okay to laugh at yourself with everyone else.
I do not even get, what they meant by, those games are unfaithful. What is unfaithful about Sonic having a gun or a sword, turning into a werewolf or trying to save a fantasy world? (By the way the storybook games always felt like a spin-off series to me, exactly because Sonic was the only one of the main cast to appear as himself, while the other characters were different representations of themselves in this universe). Sonic always tried to be cool, to be more mature and yes Sonic tried to be edgy. That's what Sonic was all about from the beginning. And if you think Sonic being true to itself is being cute and colorful, you didn't understand Sonic at all. Probably you didn't even play past the first level of Sonic the Hedgehog. The Original one.
Compared to the current era, the "dark age" was a golden age
The 2010s were easily the worst decade of Sonic's Career thus far & it's because of how Dumb Critics & Fake Fans who didn't understand the series took control of it in the aftermath of 06. The Just Sonic Mentality was dumb & only hurt the series, while huge mistakes were made with hiring people for the 2010s decade. Roger Craig Smith was a terrible fit for Sonic, while Pontac & Graff no sane company hires lead writers with absolutely no knowledge or attempts to learn the series they are writing for & Sega actually did that with them.
The 4kids Era was a Silver Age for the series, while the 2010s are more of a Mud Age for the series. At least in the latter half of the 2000s they were trying & actually made some awesome games like Riders & its sequel Shooting Star Story, Rush Adventure & Black Knight. Secret Rings while having frustrating controls, at least had a good story & a really enjoyable Party Game Mode. It's unfortunate that the Storybook series was cancelled in favor of the 2010s direction after that.
As for the disrespect of side characters Cream hasn't been in a game since Generations if you don't count crossovers & mobile phone games. Sonic himself was flanderized severely & Tails didn't deserve to be made such a weak & useless character either! Sonic is supposed to be a cool Shonen Series, not the crap he's been since Colors. Really if you ask me it's the 2010s that were unfaithful to the Sonic Series, while the 4kids Era was completely faithful. We can only hope that the 2020s see a return to form for the series after this awful decade.
It’s hard to be a Sonic fan.
This days, saying that you are a Sonic fan or saying that you like a specific game, you get bullied for it.
I'm a comic only fan and I'm a young fan at that
Some people don't consider me a "true fan"
I've only played colors and mania and I love the hell out of sonic
It's hard to be a sonic fan no matter what
@@sparklesparkle3370 the only other sonic game I've played besides the ones you've mentioned is Sonic Heroes; so I can somewhat relate
@@sparklesparkle3370 Its a shame really that people think that way. I started with the originals but my first game I owned was SA2, so to some I might not be a true fan because I wasn't there when the originals came out :(
If I was you, I wouldn’t be a fan of this now terrible franchise and be on mr sega lives!’s side.
I think the sentence "When drama fails, it becomes funny and memorable. When comedy fails, it's just trash." works really well with the modern sonic situation.
This is the reason why I'll always back a story like '06's that was made with heart and good intentions (I know good intentions doesn't amount to much in the long run, but in hindsight, '06 was honestly more emotional than people give credit) over a cynical farce like any of Pontaff's scripts. A bad melodrama can at least be unintentionally hilarious. There's no such thing as a "so-bad-it's-good" comedy. Bad comedy can only be miserable to sit through.
And then you have Lost World which is infuriating the whole way through
As a child, I had hoped to one day join Sonic Team and create titles for the franchise. Sonic was my dream, my ambition. Sonic the Hedgehog '91 was my first video game. Sonic was the first character I ever learned to draw. Sonic X was my first Saturday morning cartoon. As the years passed I witnessed the slow decent into obscurity of Sonic. '06 despite being a valiant effort was a broken mess. Shadow the Hedgehog came barreling in and threw both the Sonic Team and Shadow's backstory for a loop. Generations gave me hope. That hope was curb-stomped by Lost World and Boom. Forces was mundane and lacked sustenance. Mania was pleasing but backfires because it encourages Sega to use it and its shorts as not just crutches, but a whole damn wheelchair. The games are childish and lazy. The media drinks up the memes and animations like a cactus dying of thirst. And now the Sonic Team has no plan other than to crack jokes and use the next anniversary as another wheelchair. I loved Sonic but now I don't even recognize his franchise...
@Silver Fan 45 then go for it, who knows, maybe you could make a difference, maybe you could be the one to save the Sonic franchise, or maybe not, you never know if you don't try.
@Silver Fan 45 No problem. Just spreading encouragement from one fan to another.
P.s I also kinda have the same dream of working for Sonic Team one day as well.
Sonic Mania is the best Sonic game ever made. If you don’t recognise that, there is no hope for you.
@@vadgeman6017 That's a subjective statement. Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to your own beliefs, but to say that everyone must love Sonic Mania and whoever doesn't is wrong is a bit ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic Mania, I don't think it's the only great Sonic game like many people will tell you, but I think it is an amazing game among many other great Sonic games, but hey that is just my opinion. Someone else may not like Sonic Mania and have genuine problems with it, some people (like me) may prefer the 3D Sonic games over the 2D Sonic games, but you know what? That's okay, because that's just their opinion. What's not okay is forcing people to love a game and saying how wrong they are for disagreeing with you. That is a harmful mentality that is only going to bring more flak to this franchise and fanbase.
I don't want this to come off as being rude, I'm just a little peeved off after hearing everyone on the internet say shit like "Sonic Mania is the only good Sonic game like ever." Or whenever someone tries to talk about the other great Sonic games, (Generations, Unleashed, Adventure 1 and 2, Heroes, Colours, etc.) everyone only seems to bring up Sonic 06 or Sonic Boom, like yeah we get it, stop trying to compare it to Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 ARIN!
Sorry about the rant, love you all.
Mania’s my fav, but I also love 3D Sonic ...
Generations and Colours being the best 3D Sonic’s imo. 3D Sonic desperately needs a return to form now and I think making the 3D games fully cross platform is hurting the series.
32 year old sonic fan. Sharing some thoughts below. The golden era of Sonic IMO was the early 2000s. Why? Because it catered/appealed to everyone.
3D games with deep stories your thing? Adventure/Adventure 2/Heroes
2D games more your speed? Advance games
2D games but you prefer the traditional style? Mega/Gems Collection
Want a sonic game that is just different just because? Battle
No matter what kind of gameplay you were into, there was something for you somewhere. From Unleashed and onward is when I saw a change and the franchise hasn't been the same since. Thankfully, we'll always have awesome mod games and since SEGA isn't super nazi about it we don't have to worry about them being taken down.
This I highly agree with and always saw, there was always something new and great to look forward to, Sega cared back then...
I can't say I agree with your argument that *everything* after Unleashed hasn't been the same. Did you forget about Black Knight? I still feel that game was incredibly faithful to the core attributes of what makes Sonic, Sonic.
I think Unleashed still had that original style.
@@twoforfive9228 And let's not forget there was also Zero Gravity for racing and Sonic Rush Adventure for a 2D experience at the time of Unleashed and Black Knight. Some flaws that are still present today definitely began around that time (Tails' flanderization did begin in Unleashed, like it or not), but there was still heart and an appeal for everyone then.
want an illegal sonic fan game that steals your info? sonic gather battle.
Modern Sonic, “How do you do Fellow kids”
Classic Sonic, “Mute Friendliness”
Adventure Sonic, “Cool Guy”
Movie Sonic, “hopeful Potential”
Boom Sonic: "Laughing stock"
Boom Cartoon Sonic: “Non-caring comedian”
Sonic Boom : "bad jokes"
I liked boom sonic,
Dragon Del Sur
Boom Sonic: “Decomposing corpse”
I actually really enjoy the Sonic memes but, *like a meme,* it should *stay* on the internet and goodness not consume the whole identity of the franchise... Please, I want the real Sonic back.
exactly
10/10 comment
To SEGA and the newer fans, this IS the real Sonic. I've honestly started to lose hope for Sonic. I don't think the Sonic of yester-yester-generation is going to come back. At least not any time soon.
Let's be honest, Sonic The Hedgehog is just a representation of how memes can actually ruin such a cool franchise.
Thats true. Like imagine the fact that the Sonic franchise is so consumed by memes that the sanic meme made it into the official sonic movie. And i can bet that if Knuckles is in the sequel they're gonna reference the uganda knuckles meme as well.
The way you talked about the marketing... Yes! that is the same issues I have. Great job on this whole video.
Oh hello, Shadow759.
@shadow759 I've seen your videos before, you're a meh sonic youtuber to me, and that's not even an insult if some of you are gonna feel triggered.
@@calebproductions1264 I am not even a Sonictuber. Also ooookkk? Not sure what the point of this comment was.
@@calebproductions1264 Hey stop being a immature shithead
Bruh, I feel like I'm staring at apart of my childhood rn, I remember I used to watch all of your vids and would binge until you made a new upload, how have you been M8?.. You may not see this but you made a part of my childhood so.. Thank you-.
It’s not only Sonic that’s gotten a bad reputation in terms of social media, it seems a lot of things in society these days are trying to appeal to “kids” by becoming over glorified memes. And it only serves to ruin their credibility. Sonic lost his heart
@@notmuch8940 Shut up, that meme is dead and was never funny.
@@dragondelsur5156 you didn't need to say that
I thought I was the only one who noticed that
Even their official streams are cringy to watch
Sonic needs to *OPEN HIS HEART*
Oh, how the truth hurts. You could be a child with eyes full of hope but there is nothing but disappointment in the future as one keeps waiting for a potential game. Sonic was something that touched our hearts growing up and we want that same feeling as adults. They're drawing over garbage and selling it as nostalgia because they keep wanting us to remember instead of expecting better. The character development has been reduced to nothing. It hurts so much and they don't care at this point so why should we.
Really I expect better but in a re-inventive way, not in a totally bashed way. I keep the characters but only change the characters slightly in others, but nto to the point you lose them completely. But to the point you see them grow up, or stay the same.
Reading this whole thing in Shuichi’s voice was certainly a treat
Now, SEGA cares about short-term profit and meaningless praise from both sides.
Sonic's entire existence was to be a rival to mario. To get an upper hand on the monster that was nintendo.
But....
It wasn't done in a way that is just a soulless cash grab. There was a reason he beat mario. Sonic was an actual character.
He wasn't trying to BE cool, he WAS cool. His body language and attitude communicated that he was a cocky, impatient, quick on his toes hedgehog but would do what it takes to save the world, as he runs through the world to defeat a scientist who wants to change his home into a dystopia.
I feels like sonic has lost this identity over time due to a lack of focus from SEGA themselves. Like if anyone asks "who is sonic" or "what is sonic" you will be met with a a legion of different things that don't even sound like it's from the same franchise.
SEGA has split their brand into so many parts that their are arguments about the most basic story elements within the series.
When you have people arguing which is the best between THREE SONICS you've lost your way.
DUDE EXACTLY! See the thing with sonic from the 90s, some people just see him as another gaming mascot who tried competing with Mario. But with Sonic, it's a very special case, I feel like Sonic was more about going AGAINST Mario than COMPETING with Mario. After the amazing story in Sonic 3&K, it's clear that they actually put heart and soul into the world Sonic was in rather than just a cash grab. Sonic 3&k showed that it wasn't bubsy, awesome possum, etc. Sonic had heart put into it. From the damn near perfect character designs to the life changing stories Sonic went through like in Sonic 3&K. Sonic is so much more than just that label that he's given from the 90s
@Dib Membrane right?
So true. And Sonic being an actual character makes me want to see a Mario reboot with the roster being full of actual characters with interesting personalities and no animal abusing that isn't from the player. (5-30-2020)
@Dib Membrane I understand Luigi has one in those games but that's not enough because I also want to see really good personalities from other characters, especially the main protagonist himself. Maybe make Mario the brother that is bold, wise, relaxed, happy when he's with his peers, or at least give him some kind of fitting personality that would make him round and actually just as interesting as Sonic.
@@CarbonRollerCaco SEGA should've told us that Tails was 6 years old in SatAM.
Man, this video hurts but it's 100% true. Sonic was never supposed to be a smirking memelord. Yeah, he joked around and had fun but when the chips were down he always took it seriously. The core of his character is being a free spirit, ever searching for adventure, never staying still but always ready to save the day when his friends or his planet are in danger.
Exactly the series really needs a return to form in the 2020s.
I don't want the sonic games to end now since its our childhood and this is the reason why I an still alive because it kept me motivated and brought me joy and happyness so let try to keep sonic alive okay guys let do this
That's what he is now tho? Am I missing something?
No it's not
"I'm just a guy who loves adventure!" -Sonic, SA2
When tails said " true dat " with that accent at the end of sonic forces, not gonna lie a little part of my soul died off that day and went to nothingness
Thank you for your honesty...
My soul died back in 2010 when I heard Sonic laughing like a special needs kid over "Baldy McNosehair".
My soul died when sonic mania became a thing, then it died again completely when the sonic movie existed, how can we take this now shitty franchise seriously anymore?
Caleb Montes Are you talking about the Sonic movie before the design or after?
@Angel Baby I'm talking about both, because even though they made sonic's design okay now, it shouldn't be enough to give the movie a pass, are you fucking kidding me?
The design looks okay, but what about the whole picture, what about the screenplay, what about the writing, what about the acting, what about jim carrey portraying eggman instead of himself? It takes more than a simple little character design to make a movie good, and the sonic fanbase is too stupid enough to understand that.
Me and Mr. Sega Lives! were right, that piece of shit movie should've never existed.
I can’t even be a sonic fan anymore. I used to love sonic so much. Played most of the games, loved all of them. But as a teenager if I tell anyone, even my closest friends that I like or even liked sonic I’m a laughing stock. Why? “Isn’t that the game with that fat cat the fans wanna have sex with?” “Have you seen that horrible movie design?” “Haha gotta go fast!” “Sonic was never good.” Just a bunch of recycled overused memes and internet jargon. I’m tired of it. Sonic used to be cool. That’s what sonic is at his core. Cool. That’s why he dethroned Mario. We knew sonic. We knew what he liked, that he was impatient, that he listened to killer rock music, and that he was the fastest thing alive. Now the entire franchise is living on life support because, “haha funy fast guy.” Does that sound cool to you? No. Sonic is no longer sonic.
He doesn't listen to killer rock music how do you even know?
@@waringaw.m6350 I think it's implied Sonic listens to rock music going by the genre of his theme songs in the Adventure games, as Jeb mentioned in his SA1 video.
Yeah a bunch of perverts ruined Sonic by putting out a whole bunch of gross porn and thats what the fanbase is mostly known for, i guess? Like nah, i grew up watching Sonic X, playing Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 and all those games, i even begged my parents for the plushies so i can have the toys to play with. But idk why people had to go and make it all perverted.. 😑😔
On another note: Sonics still cool in my books. I just wish they didnt butcher the characters and make Knuckles a dumbass and Tails such a wimp and go in the direction they were going for in SA1
Yung Spider-Legend the same thing happened to me cuz if I tell anyone about sonic they will just make fun of me but I CANNOT stop being a sonic fan because sonic was a huge part of my childhood and I’m greatful for that.
Mhm. I remember as a kid googling Sonic in real life because I wanted to see how he'd look. All I can say is, after seeing that inital movie design, that repainted hedgehog picture I saw then was way better than that creepy shit
I'll always find the tonal whiplash of sonic and his personality from the end of the Jason Griffith era into the Roger Craig Smith era ridiculously funny
We go from "every world has its end. I know that's kind of sad but that's why we've got to live life to the fullest in the time we have" being one of sonics last lines in black knight Jason's last game straight into "lol baldy MC nose hair" "no copy right law in the universe will stop me" Funny meme sonic lines in Colours Roger's first game with the character.
@Buzz Lippman I don't like Roger as Sonic. Although I agree the writing in the games since 2010 are awful.
@@tiruliru1189 it honestly upsets me cause i actually like Roger's voice but he is NOT a good fit for Sonic and sadly the memes just drag it further down.
I totally agree. I miss the old days when Sonic took itself seriously and told good stories. I miss when Sonic was a cool hero who cracked some jokes here and there, the other characters actually mattered, and Dr. Robotnik was a genuinely competent and threatening villain. It's funny... this is exactly what happened to Paper Mario, now that I think about it. Super Paper Mario (the last true game in the subseries) had gripping drama (like old Sonic) and deeply existential themes. It's easily the darkest Mario has ever gotten. We went from that to "LOL paper jokes paper is funny look I'm paper," despite the fact that the paper look was only an aesthetic in the original three games. "Paper" Mario as a separate character never existed until Sticker Star onwards. In the original trilogy, it was legit Mario, just depicted in a paper art style.
That line was terrible. Sonic told her not to try to change things for the better, which just makes him a hypocrite.
"They hated him, for he spoke the truth."
Ben Curtis - BC Media “...FOR YOU!!!”
I had to do it
They are actually hating on this video on Sonic Retro right now. Fits about how the Zoomers don't behave and stuff started by a certain big RUclipsr. I'm trying to find his comment here but he seems to avoid direct "critique", strangely.
t. boomer
MKGE is there a link you can send so I can find this? I genuinely want to see what you’re talking about
@@flamingoodness4923 Check the Sonic section of the Sonic Retro forum, the thread about "the younger fandom" who repeat mistakes ;)
That's why they hated Jesus.
There's one quote that really speaks volumes of the core issue of the Franchise. "I'm not a fan of Modern Sonic, I'm not a fan of Classic Sonic, I'm a fan of Sonic". This says so much in so little that honestly you wouldn't even need the rest of the video to understand.
The moment they split Sonic into 2 entities is what inevitably led the franchise into this spiral of nostalgia and memes. It's really a disappointment in that they're so busy looking back to past, instead of looking forward towards the future.
Also, dig the Sonic Adventure 2 reference for the title.
I actually appreciate the split, but not where they took the "modern" sonic. The Zelda series did a similar "split". Allowed 2D titles for fans of those, and 3D titles for fans of those. Sonic would benefit greatly from this approach. I love 3D sonic but couldn't care less about the 2D games. Whereas 2D fans probably don't like 3D sonic that much. It's when you force the two together that you end up with problems. And yes, the way they approached everything was awful, but it wasn't *caused* by the split; it just happened after the split.
@@Otome_chan311 the thing is, you can still appeal to classic fans without arbitrarily splitting up what is essentially a different design of the same character.
Kafke The advance series’s did this perfectly fine. It didn’t need any split.
How ironic that sonic was more alive when the games like 06 and shadow were said to kill it... And now that mania is advertised as the rebirth has really started to take the life out of the series...
Sonic (Sega too) was dead after the Dreamcast dies
At this point I’d rather get another 06 that tries it’s damnedest to be something amazing and fails horrifically than another Forces that’s just bad jokes and taking the piss out of everything while not even aiming higher than just “Ok”.
Sonic mania is just for the nostalgic appealing, not the return of the series, sonic fan games nowdays are far better then the official games of the 2010s
Funny enough Sonic 06 was my introduction to sonic back in 2009 and that's a game I still liked since I remembered playing it multiple times and it would lead me into playing even more sonic games into the future.
@Ferg Lics but then come people who say "that's a game about a blue hedgehog, it doesn't need to be serious!"
This is the only Sonic rant video I can finally get behind. Most rants I have seen are just people just trying to fit in with the crowd, and I would look at the thumbnails of some of those “rants” and say “yep, clickbait”. But your video is every single thing I hate about Sonic in the 2010s, and I agree with everything said in this video. I truly.....TRULY miss the integrity Sonic used to have, when he was a rival to Mario, and he at one point, almost outdid the plumber and became a league of his own. But honestly, for me, a new low for Sonic was when Social Media was said to be a benefit for Sonic to keep going, and to keep being meta, and keep being that 40 year old trying to be hip and cool, and to keep seeing “fans” gushing over every little screenshot of Sonic, when he wears a shirt in the Olympics, or even singing
La malquerida in those.......Twitter takeovers. I may be done with Modern Sonic, I may be done with Classic Sonic, as well as the fandom, and social media, and the games, and stuff. But I’m not done being a Sonic the Hedgehog fan. Because the 2020 Sonic Movie, while flawed, showed a glimmer of hope to me. It reminded me of the integrity Sonic once had. It reminded me of the days when I would play games like Sonic Adventure 1 & 2, Sonic CD, and Sonic Unleashed. The movie respected me as a fan. I can only hope from here on that Sonic can make a true comeback. And I’ll only believe he’s back, and better than ever in gaming, when I see it with my own eyes.
tbh I used to be a mario fan before but after seeing the Sonic's classic and adventure games, I became a Sonic fan because his stories were serious and emotional.
Mario franchise lacked Serious and Emotional stories but now maybe they are trying to tell such type of story with Bowser's Fury game.
_"The 2020 Sonic Movie, while flawed, showed me a glimmer of hope to me."_
This also applies to IDW comics. They may be flawed, but they still respected me as a Sonic fan.
For me, I miss how much emphasis there was on the “cool and epic” factor Sonic had in the early to late 2000s as opposed to trying making more meme potential. Even the handheld and spinoff games (especially Riders) had some sick memorable concepts.
Sonic was cool in the way mario is cool right now and I think a lot of people misunderstood that. Yes, there was that 90s/2000s "edge" to it in a "I'm better than mario" kinda way, but in the "dark age" they tried to lean into the edge without understanding that it required being at the same level as mario and other AAA games. Sonic didn't *try* to be cool, it just was.
Watching this video hurt. I, too, fell in love with the Adventure games as a kid. It was impossible not to, given how every character and interaction and stage and guitar riff just *radiated* personality. The passion of everyone working on those games shines through, and it makes for an experience that blew my mind as a kid and that I'll always treasure. Of course the games weren't perfect, nothing is perfect, but they were fun and exciting and cool. Even now, booting up SA2 feels like saying hello to an old friend.
I've distanced myself from Sonic in recent years. It's tiring to watch something so special to me reduced to cheap jokes on the internet. I hate seeing these characters reduced to stereotypes. I miss the days when the story balanced exciting characters with high stakes, where the gameplay encouraged you to play over and over again, to try different routes and combinations etc for the rush of finally seeing an "A" on your screen (instead of just boosting endlessly through a stage). I'm tired of feeling embarrassed. "Yeah, I like Sonic games, I know." Since when did being a Sonic fan become something shameful?
So, thank you for this, Jeb. This video series has reminded me just how much these games meant. You've allowed me to care again about something I loved so openly as a child/teenager. I only hope Sega and Sonic Team wake up and realize just what they're doing to this beloved franchise.
what exactly are you trying to say? The meme and stereotypes sure are annoying, but the boost formula worked in colors, generations, and unleashed. I wouldn't say forces cause the game is "as worse" or "worse than" sonic 06
@@coolman2179 it's because overall it loses the charm of finding shortcuts and secrets, actually facing enemies, or experiencing the world and environment. I know Sonic is supposed to be the "Fastest Thing Alive" but in trying to buckle down on that they remove all the stuff that made the old 3D and even 2D games great all for the sake of living up to a title he really didn't need to solidify further.
Sonic has become the thing he parodied and never wanted to be - *a big fat joke*
Sonic lost his heart
He never speaks with his heart anymore.
Sonic was supposed to be cool. The type of cool that's rebellious, but in all the right ways. The type of cool thats immature on the surface, but has a good heart and stands up for his friends and what he believes in. The type of cool that's unstoppable, unshakable, and even when the going gets tough, he perseveres. The type of cool that's totally genuine, but can still laugh at himself.
I don't actually mind the occasional meta humor, but when that's all there is to Sonic anymore...
"Who's your daddy, Shadow?"
A demonic space tyrant whose plan was to enslave and *eat* humanity, and kill anyone who got in his way. But why do I point out lore? Sonic Team has probably forgotten Black Doom by now.
@M.C.U Madagascar Cinematic Universe i perfer classic being a sonic from the past and NOT FROM ANOTHER DiMeNsIoN
Either that or a scientist who went mad, he even called Shadow "his son". Not that Sega will ever acknowledge any other Robotnik lmao
despite Shadow the Hedgehog's glaring problems gameplay wise that game had some good ass L O R E
Whoever came up with the shitty dialogue for both forces and tsr deserve to be knocked out by baseball bat.
Shitty writers that don't know who the characters actually are supposed to be and meme culture.
Just 2 of those things are enough to kill a franchise.
My disappointment is actually immeasurable and my favorite franchise is ruined.
The soul and spirit of Sonic died after Sonic and the Black Knight. From there, they decided to push Sonic in the wrong direction and it’s been like that for the entire decade. This right now, is truly the dark age of Sonic.
How long would you think this dark age would last for???
@@clawyraptor9029 until they grow a fucking spine and do something decent
Agreed Completely! This Darkage needs to end already! The 2020s need to see a return to form for the Sonic Series. Sonic was still good in the 4kids era, & it's regrettable it got wrongfully hated instead of the real darkage for the series.
clawy raptor There’s no telling. I doubt it would be anytime soon tho. I’m guessing Sega needs to completely hit rock bottom before they either make a drastic change for the series or go bankrupt and give the IP to another company. It feels like Sega sold out and is just a soulless shell of a company. On the other hand, they own the rights to Bayonetta which seems to be the most epic IP they have under their belt. Wish they give whoever’s behind that the chance at making a Sonic game. 🤔
Sonic unleashed was the best sonic game so your statement is wrong
"Why should I settle for less? Why should I keep digging for a reason to like a new Sonic thing?"
That hits hard. This is exactly how I feel about it. It feels like eating a burned pizza - parts of it are edible, sure, but at one point you just cant help but think "dude what the fuck? Why do i have to keep eating these burned pizzas?"
This guy gets it. 10/10. I'm not even joking. Absolutely serious. Amazing video I completely agree with. Great job, dude! For me Sonic I knew and loved ended in just about the same period - 2007-2011
What we have now is...ugh.
Omg yes! I love your channel and I'm also glad you shared the same opinion!
@@frostbitegaming3289 glad you love my channel. :)
meh back then I had plenty of fun with the franchise!! Went back to handheld games, storybook games, and not to mention Unleashed!! Made my 2008 for sure.
For me I definitely think it ended in 2010. My love for the franchise was purely kept with glue. Such things as the spin off racing games and short fun with colors and generations. (games I barely go back to and enjoy less as I got older)
Now.. yeah I agree. simply ugh.
What is up with everyone acting like it's the end of the franchise cause of 3 bad games? or is it cause sonic's personality changed cause I agree with that but I wouldn't see that as a fairly good reason to leave the franchise. Relax boys, sonic ain't dead.
My time period was from 2001 to 2010 lol, was lucky enough to grow up with the game cube games when they were released
I feel this video so hard. I yearn for a time where Sonic isn't forced to be this childish meme fodder so afraid of its own shadow. It's not just that we need an actual good game that appeals to what people love about past gameplay, I want this series to get back to being genuine, exciting, moving, having some self-respect.
Because of an influx of people like you, it may happen some day. ... Some day I feel is still VERY far ahead, but it's a potential that can be reached.
@@JebZone I'm sorry. All these comments including this video is really not aware about the Sonic games at all.
Lol you guys state things that are false and see it as facts. I can easily prove everyone wrong.
@@Sonicthehedgehog-do2bj And yet you don't say anything to help your case and instead just goes "UH UH YOU'RE WRONG, LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALA, I WON'T SAY WHY YOU'RE WRONG BUT YOU'RE JUST WRONG". Until you ACTUALLY TRY to argument with people instead of acting like a child, nobody will take what you say seriously.
@@good_wall5338 I know, i was in a rush lol.
1. Sonic making jokes, etc whatever the bunch of bs you guys think is a good thing. The way Sonic was portrayed in the adventure era was wrong to his character and was a dub only thing. The english staff is making Sonic go to his japanese roots as Sonic has always been a jokey and cool guy. SO this is how Sonic is suppose to be. What we got in adventure, etc was wrong.
2. Nostalgia pandering? Having a level based of the theme of green hill or having neat callbacks for 1 or 2 stages isn't nostalgia pandering if the game is 80% new original stages. If you guys knew anything about game development it's called reusing assets to save development time and uhh references. Mario uses the mushroom kingdom for the first stage nearly every single game... Omg nostalgia pandering no Stfu and no one complains about Mario.
3. Tails is still a good character. If you played the games you'd know.
4. Sonic team knows what they're doing with the franchise. They've been with Sonic since day 1. Whatever you guys say is your own judgement and opinion on what you think the franchise should be BASED on your likes. Think globally adventure fan bois.
@@Sonicthehedgehog-do2bj First off, It's not the inherit idea of Sonic joking around that's bad but it's the way they handle it. The dialogue and the jokes written nowadays just scream "40 year olds who can only think of self aware jokes at the expense of the characters and the franchises reputation". Also, the Adventure part is just your preference and opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't go around and state it as facts.
2. Again, the idea isn't a bad thing, it's the execution, which is why people let the reused stages in Sonic Mania slide, because since it's anniversary game, it was bound to have it but they still cooked up new gimmicks on the second acts of each stage and new cool remixes and along with the amazing physics and great level design, it's a great experience. Now compare that with Sonic Forces, which almost doesn't even do anything new with the stages also with it's innacurate physics, mediocre level design and forgetable remixes for both Classic and Modern Sonic and you'll see why people have a problem with it nowadays. Over reliance on returning stages just gets tiring after a while when people just want to see new content, why do you think people liked Studiopolis Zone so much? Also, we're talking about Sonic NOT Mario. You'd also have to be pretty ignorant to think that people don't complain about Mushroom Kingdom in every Mario single game. That's just stupid.
3. Tails WAS a good character but not anymore he isn't. The whole point of his story in Adventure 1 was that while he really admired Sonic, he couldn't keep up with him, He then decided to be his OWN person and it shows and by the end of his story when he, ALONE, saved Station Square from Eggman and now that he is own person, he's able to keep with Sonic on his own. And then he reverts to scared side-kick in Sonic Forces who can't battle Chaos 0 even though he fought a MORE POWERFUL version of Chaos in SA1.
4. It might seem like they do but they don't. Not hiring more talented people for your flagship franchise, constantly rushing games and not giving the time it needs to shine and among other things. If you REALLY watched the video, you would see why but instead you just resort to acting like a child again because you don't agree with other people and instead you just decide to generalize people who don't agree with you as "Adventure fanbois". Get real, man.
I agree JebTube. I hate the way the sonic franchise became. And all the characters that I know and love are not the same anymore. At least in the dark age there was ambition. Now they don't want to even try. And now I don't even know if the real sonic along with a few characters will return to what they we're
Now it's a jokefest comedy. *BALDY NOSEHAIR! Bwahahaha!*
Anyone who seriously thinks "BALDY NOSEHAIR" is even remotely funny, has shit taste in comedy.
Something tells me they actually tried a little on Sonic forces
SuperSonicWarrior93 idc, I get a chuckle outta it and I’m fine
@@jbbajangamer and that is ok that you do. But for people like us it doesn't really define his character and the story plus the plot sucks. And I personally don't think it funny but if you do that okay
Outstanding video. Those of us that grew up with the 2000’s era of Sonic have been blatantly disregarded in favor of endless 90’s nostalgia and social media memes. Maybe one day the series can get back to that time when it actually took itself and it’s players seriously, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon.
its a shame I love both the 90s era and loved the 2000s I love nostalgia to my 90s self but I cannot stand the current wisecrack style they go with these days hell I love the trashfire that is shadow THE H.EDGEHOG
*Attention all REAL Sonic Fans!!! I'm SURE it is now or never to declare WAR on the REAL ENEMY that is none other than what I call the Sonic-Idiot-Base!!! Exactly who is the Sonic-Idiot-Base you might ask? Exactly who JebTube was talking about in this video. The BIG FAT LIERS: Too many criticz and memez out there etc. It has PROVEN to be nothing but CANCER to the series and IS NOT a part of the real fanbase! So, we have to STOP THEM before they completely destroy the series! Don't you think it's time that we really might as well? That is of coarse, if you TRULY WANT TO SAVE SERIES and still give a damn about it. What if it could EggMan's latest real plan to destroy Sonic and take over the Series? Also what do I think the big 2021 Sonic Game NEEDS to be? Sonic. Adventure. 3. Also TO SONIC TEAM IF YOU'RE LISTENING/READING: It's time for you to stop listening to the Sonic-Idiot-Base and deliver Sonic Adventure 3 to us in 2021 (Delay and do not rush it if necessary etc.), I have my wallet ready and waiting.*
2000s sonic was always shit. Looking back I never liked the redesign as he looked lanky, had oversized hands and just looked like a teletubby. 90s sonic is the only true sonic and what made it great in the first place!
Zap224
Forces was the exception that proved the rule, so to speak.
MGTOWTakeru
2010s Sonic is even worse.
So Sega just recently revealed that 2020 will be "The year of Sonic," even though they said the exact same thing in 2003...
& 2006...
& 2011...
& 2014...
& 2017...
Seriously is this just going to be an on going thing with Sega?
@A983 Dev Keep dreaming
Yeah but like, don’t worry: 20XX will be THE year of Sonic.
That's every 3 years. I think that's on purpose.
😠Don't remind me please.😟
@@dragondelsur5156 stop
This video really hit me hard. I remember when I was 15 and I saw Colors, not even played the game, but just saw the game cover. Seeing Sonic looking all cringe next to those aliens was the first time I ever questioned whether I was "too old" to be a Sonic fan. Hadn't even seen the cutscenes yet, so you can only imagine lol. I pretty much was ready to dip from the series at that point, but Gens reeled me back in. In fact, had Gens not released I probably would've never even become a SonicTuber. But after Gens things were looking good. Sure the story & Roger were meh, but they could work on that. At that point I'd lost faith in Sonic stories so I'd have just been happy with good gameplay. The Modern gameplay in Gens could be improved, with original levels, I thought. The next game will be good. Of course they did something completely different after that. Forces was the last straw.
It just feels like all of this stems from the infamous legacy of 06, and how they're so scared to attempt anything like it again. Sure I'm in the minority for loving 06, but at this point can you blame me? All I ever wanted was Adventure in HD, and they haven't attempted it since then. And them potentially working on an Adventure Remake is an even scarier thought. Instead of picturing a near-perfect remake with online multiplayer added, I picture an inability to recreate Adventure control. A complete lack of understanding as to what even made Adventure great. The current voice cast and the potential script rewrites they make.
It's so sad to no longer have faith in a series I once loved. It's so sad to see them use Classic Sonic, 2D, and old zones as a crutch because they're too lazy to fix Modern Sonic. It's so sad to know that my favourite era of Sonic (1998-2008) will never be recreated. I almost wish Gens had never happened so I would've stayed tapped out after Colors. But hey I guess that's life.
The characters went from “really fun, unique, and full of charm” to “haha lol look at the funny dialogue and memes”
They did? Well what reality are you from because they've always been meme fodder.
Basically tsr.
@DarkSonic180 It wasn't the fanbase. The shit dialogue, shit stories and shit acting has always been there.
Fans just decided to quit bullshiting and acknowledge the trash.
take a look at the history in its entirety and tell me you aren't bullshitting me with they were never meme fodder
admit you were never a fan and just leave, don't try to pretend you care about something so shallow even to you
This might be the very first time I've ever seen pretty much all of the comments section on a Sonic video united. No flame wars, no insults or disrespect, just people agreeing with the message presented in the video.
You did a great job articulating what many of us feel about the state of the franchise. A lot of us had an identical experience to you. I remember enjoying Sonic 06 and Unleashed as a young teenager, to then suddenly find out online that Sonic has earned a very bad reputation. After that, the magic slowly fizzled out over the years until and now the series just feels hollow and lacking in any kind of passion or ambition.
I'm gonna hold out hope for 2021, but after that I might have to really think about if I'm willing to carry on supporting this series. I'll probably always be a Sonic fan for life in terms of the character and parts of its history, but the magic just isn't there for me anymore. To me this is the true dark age of Sonic, to the point that I've almost entirely lost faith in the franshise.
Fantastic video, I only wish it was longer haha
I'm glad someone else agrees about this being the real dark age, compared to the current era the "dark age" was a golden age
I like to call that time period the “Ambition Age” at this point. It fits the time period a lot better, doesn’t it?
@@reddeath5791 same
I'm going to give Sonic Team one last chance.
If they fail.
I will just follow fan games from now on.
Hey do you now what's the funniest thing about all this?
Yuji Naka isn't liking the current direction they are taking with sonic either.
Yes. One of sonic's dad himself, doesn't like what sonic is becoming.
In wondering if he doesn't like what sonic has become, why doesn't he just come back?
Light, give me POWER!!! Y can’t he do something about it
@@editor7354 I'm surprised people aren't saying " if you don't like the current sonic, then why don't you come back?"
Juste une Sarah
As he should.
If he could come back to Sonic now, dont you think he'd done it by now?
Most likely SEGA's keeping him away from the Sonic games. Kind of like how Disney is doing George Lucas with Star War's Disney Trilogy: He can tell them the best way to approach things, but he ultimate has no control what they're doing. In fact, they yeeted all his ideas into the nearest garbage bin
I think the main problem with Sonic Team is that they never learn, they always throw away ideas rather than trying to improve them.
Agreed.
*wHeN wIlL yOu LeArN*
THAT YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES
Imagine where we'd be right now if they stuck with the Adventure Formula and the style/tone the series was going for around 1998 - 2004, with them gradually improving things and keeping the integrity of the franchise's identity...
Why isn't that our timeline???
Well the wisps and boost formula has stuck around for a few years now.
The 2021 game is their absolute last chance for me. Forces really broke my spirit. If they have Classic Sonic in a modern game again, I'm done
I know how you feel, i'm sick of nostalgia pandering too.
Nostalgia is done to death. They need to get creative like they did in their late 90's and early 20's. What happened to passion and care. It hurts me physically to know that they're in a position like this.
Starboy3664 it's honestly so saddening
The last 100% original and creative sonic game we got was sonic colors. nothing else
@@mxandeexgabriel2190 generations was orginal aswell. Even though it was a celebration.
22:47 This scene is so damn cool. And it evokes a sense of what the series has lost over the past decade.
I completely understand and agree that the franchise has become obsessed with being 'self-aware', embellishing itself in meme culture in an attempt to spearhead this awkward post-irony-slapped-onto nostalgia-movement that has stifled originality in popular culture in the 2010s.
In other words, the franchise merely laughs at itself and its past 'failures' without offering any fight back in return. It's become the butt of its own jokes and thinks itself wiser for that, but how can you respect the kid who ceases to be themselves in order to be liked by everyone?
One of the reasons I greatly admire the Adventure titles, Heroes, and 06 is because they each dared to be themselves. They dared to be different. To many, they're edgy and take themselves too seriously, but they owned that edginess- how can you not respect that? Part of what makes Sonic's character 'cool' is that he lives under his own rules and doesn't take crap from others because he's his own person. Originally, there was never any attempt by him to be liked by anyone, people naturally admired the character and the franchise because they did what they pleased and boldly pushed boundaries in the process- Sonic was effortlessly cool.
I'd love to see the day SEGA grow a pair of bollocks and free Sonic from this fan-safe kid-oriented drivel that no one respects.
"You've turned into a big time-villain doctor!" - Sonic The Hedgehog, 2001
"Okay, if it pleases the court, all those who think Eggman is a total bonehead raise their hands." - Sonic The Hedgehog, 2013
This ladies and gentlemen, is how not to do character development.
@@calebproductions1264 Im really getting sick and tired of the younger sonic fans using these memes to misrepresent the characters.
Sonic was being sarcastic when he said that in SA2 (at least that’s how I took it)
@@kylecampbell565 well, it's still better than Lost World's cutscenes
zo0pid not denying that
@@kylecampbell565
Yeah, he is being sarcastic, and then Eggman cheated him and almost kill him...
"Opinions of people who never liked Sonic, matter more than those who have genuine concern"
*agh* That's just too true for me to handle
Everything said in this video is true
@Sega soldier the people who run the Sonic social media are idiots.
@The Sega General. Tbh if I met him IRL I would be half tempted to punch him in the face for all the vile venom he has let loose out of his mouth but violence isn't the answer.
Besides something has to be said about cognitive dissonance and conformist ideology when the hateful opinions of an individual can sway the opinions of a large group of folks and a multi-billion dollar company, whose really to blame Game Grumps or those who let themselves get brainwashed by them?
OOF.
They're scared shitless to try and do anything creative.
I want them to jump the shark if they have to just anything!
Tired of them playing it too safe.
Sonic needs to figure itself out. Sonic reminds me of Star wars. The oringinal era has is widely considered to be an icon of it's franchise which few issues. The middle eras have many issues and highs that have debatable messes. The modern era of each became a mess with an occasional gem
Shadow then: Kind of like Zero from the Mega Man games, he was no nonsense, serious, harass and has his own motivations
Shadow now: Treats everyone like trash because it is "cool"
So I've been putting off watching this ever since it came out, waiting for the right mood so I wouldn't feel too much whiplash.
The right mood finally came just now, and ... wow.
I miss when Sonic games were ambitious and genuine, but I've been okay with their current approach because I thought it was part of a bigger plan; the throwing of bones to the big-name journalists before going back to their usual thing.
It's only just sinking in that this *is* the new usual... and has been *for an entire decade.*
The fact that Aaron Webber himself has seen this video (and felt the need to say so on Twitter) gives me some hope. It could mean nothing, but I've always been a "hold on to what if" kind of person.
But God, right now I just wanna sit down with everyone - from employed journalists to RUclips influencers - *everyone* that Sonic Team has been listening to since 2010 and ask them: "There. You've gotten what you asked for. Are you happy? Do you even care? Did you *ever* care?"
Oh, wait - I just remembered how IGN responded to the reveal of Mania: by ignoring it and claiming the games it pays homage to were never good in the first place.
Guess that answers *that* question.
I never got these "professionals" obsession with tearing down Sonic fans.
It really is a self-projection of how unhappy they must be themselves, to go out of their way to try ruin a series people care about and found enjoyment from..."professionally".
Honestly I'd just sit them down and force them to watch the cutscenes of every 2010s Sonic game as punishment.
But I get the feeling they'd enjoy that...
I honestly think the current IDW comics is the most mature and actually interesting take on what a Sonic story can be right now. I feel like the characters are better written, the story is more elaborated, and it just has a different feel to it, like they're actually trying and taking the characters seriously. If only it could be adapted into the games, with some kind of adventure gameplay, or something similar to the Project Hero fangame, I feel like the franchise could regain some of its heart.
I think Sonic Team is forgetting how big of a character Sonic is, Sonic is one of the most iconic video game characters ever, he has crossover games with Mario, he’s in Smash Bros, he is the mascot of Sega, he’s getting a feature length movie. That is how big the character really is but the team behind him treats the series very poorly. Sonic Team knows that their character gets overloaded with memes so for some reason they encourage it by posting their own Sonic memes on twitter? Why? But at the same time they’re trying to appeal to kids as well.. I know this is gonna sound weird but they need to stop listening to the fans and make what they think they can do. Even the creator of Sonic, Yuji Naka has expressed many times on how his character has changed so much lately. I hope Sonic Team listens...
this is why japan eeds to get it from sega america back to sega japan
ThirdWheelyScooter Naoto Oshima created the design but Yuji Naka was the one that came up with sonic in the first place.
@@hedgy9230 i remember hearing sonic was suppose to be a rabbit
May May Yeah he almost was, it was part of the development of his design.
@@hedgy9230 till they realize it was too common
One of my friends said it best in regards to the Meta Era of Sonic:
"You know how The Simpsons used to comment on pop culture and now that they're part of pop culture the self-awareness is getting increasingly concerning to the point of losing its charm? It seems that that's where Sonic the Hedgehog as a franchise is right now." While both of us do get a kick out of some of the jokes from the past couple years, we do want to see the series go back to taking risks with mature stories and multiple playable characters like in the Dark Era. Because playing it safe and being overly kiddy, not taking a risk with the teen and older demographics that the series once targeted, is choking this franchise and it will die of asphyxiation if it doesn't get a serious grip.
My entry point was the GBA port of Sonic 1 (as not that good of a port as it was), Sonic Rush, Mega Collection Plus, even the incredibly cheesy Sonic X anime; Sonic was the topic that began my friendship with someone I'm so close to I consider her a sister to me; Unleashed is still my favorite console title to this day, and the series helped me forget about the crap I had to deal with in middle school. Sure, nothing about 2005 to 2010 was perfect, but looking back I'd take the stories and ideas from that era over the increasingly stale and safe ones of the last decade that not even the corvids are pecking at for longer than 5 minutes before looking for fresher fare. Yes, kids are more drawn to comedy, but kids need substance, too. Nostalgia is the pathway of simpler times, but the goggles have to come off sometime as wandering in the past for too long only makes it harder to advance with the future. Sega and Sonic Team really need to pick themselves up and dust off and try new things again, take critiques into account without over correcting, care about writing their characters properly instead of sidelining them or reducing them to caricatures of what they are, and if they can get themselves out of the rut, I'll be behind them 100%.
Ima be honest Secret Rings and Black Knight weren’t even that shitty, people didn’t give it a chance cause they used motion controls
Secret rings is worse than 06 to me
I enjoyed The black knight
Black Knight's story and characters are really good too. Hell I love how sonic is in that game more than any other sonic game. He's cocky but also caring. Now he's just flat out cocky and somewhat irritating. Such a shame black knight wasnt given a chance just because EW MOTION CONTROLS even though it was vastly improved from secret rings
itstetsumuya exactly
I beat both secret rings and black knight, It wasn't much fun. It felt like an timed action commands.
I honestly respect your opinion, I really thought Jason Griffith did a really good job on bringing out sonic's core character.Not that I hate Roger or anything, but I just really dont feel the same vibe that brought me into the sonic franchise, but as long as theres proof of his good days. I'll never be able to let go of Sonic no matter how hard I try. Its really hard patiently waiting for him to return as a gaming icon that we've all used to know, I just hope that boomerang comes back eventually.
I don’t think anybody hates Roger. His voice just isn’t suited for Sonic. There’s been rumors that Roger quit voicing him, however, and that Schwartz is going to voice him in the games.
I must be one of the few ones that didn't really hit home with Griffith as Sonic. I always prefered Drummond and Smith personally. I find much of his voicework pretty forced and unnatural on his voice patterns. Sure, he improved a lot on his last games, but he still had remains of his voice quirk from his work of the older games.
In my opinion I feel like the voice actors from 2005-2010 were the best voice actors for the sonic characters but I feel like the new voice actors are the reason sonic is a mess and sonic boom games and show are the worst I've ever seen before in my opinion because they are slightly taller than the originals(knuckles being strangely the tallest) and other than that I agree with the whole video and another opinion I have is I think sonic boom is terrible compared to sonic the hedgehog 2006 because the music is awesome and there isn't any jokes or any cockiness involved but that is how I feel about sonic from the past
@SALT That falls mostly on the writers for not writing a good script for Roger to work off of. I don't mind the actual voice, I just want there to be something that has good direction and focus like Unleashed and Black Knight. Those I believe were Griffiths' best performances because of the writing and presentation behind them, and I think the same can happen with Roger if they just create a good story.
@@SpeedyBlur2000 agreed
This is no joke, hands down, one of my favorite videos of all time. It explains every problem I have with the franchise, one I grew up with. It even opened me up to some other opinions because I didn’t even agree with everything but DAMN. And I’m so glad that Aaron and Tyson both saw this.
You know it's bad when even Tyson and Aaron agree with Jeb.
Wait, they saw this video?
@@RealHyperHedgehog Look at the pinned comment
It's crazy how this video STILL is relevant to the state of the franchise.
Not really, I mean it's not perfect and who knows what sega will do in the future. But with frontiers, superstars and the movie, it's in a better spot..... For now.
@@micjimster4845 and so the cycle continues... the road's gonna be long for the sonic fandom.
@@micjimster4845it’s crazy how none of those things are good lol
Nah.. not really like not anymore the franchise is different than what it was 4 years ago..
Not gonna lie, I agree with you Jeb. It's good that Sonic Team has been pretty interactive with the fans, but when that interaction starts foreshadowing what this franchise was actually supposed to be, that's a big problem. Tails and Shadow are the ones that changed the most, Tails isn't the smart and independent sidekick anymore, and what made Shadow such a unique character is gone. All the character development they acquired throught the past few years is nowhere to be seen. All that has been happening in this franchise is Nostalgia and Jokes about what it did wrong in the past. Sonic the Hedgehog is a franchise about fun, and Sonic Team needs to understand that the fanbase they gathered during all these years are growing, so should the franchise. Instead of getting more mature, it's losing more and more its identity. I still hope the next game realases save Sonic and make the characters that made my childhood so special return to be what they're supposed to be. Great Video Jeb, you're awesome.
I hope that this "Sonic Rift" Rumor is actually true.
Unfortunately the way the personality and identity of the cast is handled is not a problem limited to Sonic. Take a look at most modern cartoons and all-age video games. A vast majority have a similar meme culture, tongue in cheek nature with the occasional glimpse of memorable moments. If made popular, everyone will jump on the bandwagon because it sells.
SEGA, not Sonic Team. But they have been interactive for all the worst reasons. Seriously, why the hell are they pandering so much to Egoraptor, a whiny, disgusting individual who crapped on their games ?
The 2000s decade Sonic was still doing things right for the most part. 06 was severely rushed, although had the ambition to try to surpass the Adventure Duology. Shadow's game was fun & an interesting case of what ifs until we finally find out who Shadow is moving forward in the Last Story. The Sonic Rush games & Heroes were decent, & the Sonic Advance Trilogy was really good. The Adventure Games will forever remain the best games in the Sonic Series it seems. The 2000s knew how to make good stories for the series & really it's the FAKE FANS & Dumb Critics who hijacked the series after 06 that led to Sonic's Worst Decade.
Sonic only started doing things wrong when it started becoming "Just Sonic", when it hired 2 lead writers with no knowledge of the series for the 2010s decade games. Sonic used to be a Shonen series & actually tried to be cool rather than the joke it's been for the entire 2010s decade. Black Knight was truly the end of an era for the Blue Hedgehog. These days I kind of want the Adventure games to get the Mania Timeline treatment & for the "Current Modern Timeline" to finish itself & retire to just spinoff games.
You are wrong my friend. Very. Pay more attention to the games.
I was talking about this very thing with my friend Chris a few days ago. I hate this direction they've taken Sonic in since Colors released. All this self-aware and cheap snark would have been fine as a one-off thing with Colors, but that's obviously not what happened. One of the things I like to use as evidence of the Adventure era's greatest success is the Lost Colony Ark levels in Adventure 2, specifically Final Rush and Final Chase. To this day there is so very little other material I can cite that reminds me of the kind of aesthetic those levels have, like the only thing I can really say that did remind me of it a little is a few instances in the Xenoblade series in some areas, and the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy, which isn't saying much. The other times are from playing the Phantasy Star games following Online, and those were made by Sonic Team back then, so naturally they would have that aesthetic too. It really is just a shame that we've lost the attitude and ambition the old Sonic used to have in favor of this new self-referential one, and it hurts me at my core since I grew up with the Adventure era of Sonic too. I know just how high they can reach with this franchise, but they don't want to stumble over themselves again and cost SEGA God knows how much money and credibility with another Sonic '06. For now, I'll just have to take solace knowing in my heart just where real impact Sonic can have lies, and hope that maybe someday they can make a turn-around. I have to put Sonic on my list of "Favorite Franchises their Companies are Sitting On or Not Giving Enough Credit" list, with Chibi-Robo, Wario, F-Zero, Phantasy Star, and Pokemon.
At least we have Xenoblade... :c I miss Sonic, Pokemon, and F-Zero.
The irony is that in their fear of making another Sonic 06, Sonic Team did more damage to the series than 3 Sonic 06's would have in the span of 10 years. I'm hoping we get to see a return to form in the 2020s for the Sonic Series, & it's really sad that fake fans & critics had to hijack the series slightly over a decade ago.
Okay I can see your point on your experience with sonic but here's my 2 cents. Am I a fan sonic yes do I like the old games better yes, but it doesn't mean I don't like the new stuff either like hell I get how some people wanted dark more in depth story for forces, but let's face it's never gonna be like the adventure games kinda like how everyone says that mario odyssey is big step yea gameplay and graphic wise it's amazing, but story wise it's the same. Like I can get why some people see the games, the stories and the characters aren't the same, but I'll be honest over the years I started to like the cast more because of animated shorts as while everyone is see memes honestly I'm just glad some characters we haven't seen in along time like name one game that has ever given them this much attention as the animations do. As for the stories in the new games like Forces,Color and Lost world I know that they are no where near the old games story, but are they as bad as people say they not really like hell I see people think Tails was out of character in Lost World, but honestly it kinda makes sense why tails was like that after your basically forced into helping your archenemy save your world when he was partially apart of the reason why the world is in danger so yea he's bound to bit antagonistic to him and tho yes his jealously to Eggman was pretty stupid it wasn't as out of character as you think it is. Also over the course of the games Eggman quickly rose up to some of my favorite villains in general as sure you get see him as kind of a goof ball, but it's not the only side we see after all not only has he shown his cruelty in all the games I listed before and when you really think about it Eggman a fucked guy especially in forces but that was Eggman at his best in my opinion. Overall I ain't blind to what sonic has become, but just saying that this hasn't happen before like hell we all thought the games in the dark ages was bad now we all praise them for what they did differently so yea who knows what my happen in the future but I'm proud to see at least something comeback. so anyways here's my 2 cents and I thank you for listening.
@@shadow.3xereactions518 I always liked most of the games in the 4kids Era. Shadow the Hedgehog, the Rush Games, Riders, Shooting Star Story, Chronicles, Secret Rings, & Black Knight. These are games I always liked, regretably I never could get the full 06 Experience because it was never released on any of the hardware I own, although what I played & watched of it I really enjoyed.
The 2010s games had always felt like a dark age for the series to me. The stories & gameplay weren't as good anymore & while I tried to like them I just kept getting increasingly more disappointed. I didn't even want to touch the Boom games. At least Forces was a step in the right direction even though there's still a lot wrong with it. Mania Plus was the best Sonic Game of the 2010s decade just because it was a good game in a decade where Sonic hasn't been that good.
This video is complete and utter ... truth. I personally was introduced to the series through SatAM, a show that represented a darker and more serious yet still cool Sonic. That was the Sonic I always adored, a series that would actually give a shit about what it is (or was). My first Sonic game was Adventure 2 Battle, and that is still one of my most beloved games to this day. To me, SA2 represented everything the series was and could be. I will say now that the "Dark Age" Sonic titles at least still had some heart or passion put into them that you don't see in the recent ones.
Sonic, believe it or not, used to be a series that had integrity as you said. I love memes, but they should not become the central focus or foundation on which the Sonic (or any) series operates off of. In addition, I also grew up reading the Archie comics. While sometimes silly or ham-fisted (thanks to a certain someone), that comic series eventually became really solid. It had the quality storytelling and characterizations I wanted to see in the modern games. It's really a shame it declined and came to an end (again, thanks to a certain someone).
So, without going on for much longer, I completely agree with your video. I hope the best for the series going forward. As for you, good sir, you have earned yourself a new subscriber.
Sonic SatAM was absolute gold for a cartoon show. A serious, scary, show shrouded in lore, backed up by years of good comics, yet enough fun and just a sliver of hope against the opposition that you rooted for the Freedom Fighters with all your heart. Sonic the Hedgehog show, like Sonic Colors, was an amazing renaissance for Sonic as a whole that opened up fans to a whole new world, one with memorable characters, a hopeless plot, and a dastardly villain indeed. Robotnic has never been better since. Sonic SatAM is the epitome of what cartoons should be, no, what they need to be for kids these days. I love that show and I hope that someday, light is shed upon it once again. Gee, the moment when Uncle Chuck is roboticized again and they are forced to flee, and the tears in Sonic's eyes, that was pure gold right there. True emotion.
We've got a friend in you
Honestly, SatAM, the OVA and Sonic X had amazing storylines.
I'm sort of in a similar boat. First Sonic game was Adventure 2, grew up in the era of Mega Collection, Sonic X, Shadow the Hedgehog, Riders, (not really 06, I never had a console that I was on). I never liked Sonic because he was a meme. I liked him because he was a good character with good games. Sure he had missteps, but it's not like the entirety of the Zelda series is dismissed because "Faces of Evil" came out, or the Mario series for Sunshine's voice acting. What makes Sonic the acception?
Memes.
Because it's popular to meme on Sonic, SEGA sees that as why people "like" Sonic.
I can't honestly say I haven't laughed along with these memes. Because I have. I think a healthy amount of self awareness is good. But that's all the series is now. Not a story. Not even a game. A brand. A joke. A meme.
I still really love a lot of the games. And I'm certainly gonna go back and play them. In fact, this video series here inspired me to go back to games I haven't played in a long time. Games that mean a lot to me.
I just sure would like if another one would come out.
Same here.
You no longer feel the series is credible- that's fair. Beyond fair, in fact, when the series has had more garbage than solid titles produced in the last... well, forever. I grew up with Sonic- got the very first game with my Genesis when I was five, and the Adventure games shaped my teenage years (SA2, S3&K, and Generations are my favorite Sonic games. Yes, I'm one of those who enjoys both Mania and Sonic Adventure), but it's very apparent that Sonic Team/Sega just doesn't know what they're doing with the development of the games anymore.
Sonic Team scraps great movement for worse (Generations to Forces, for example) and will introduce things that are half baked but could be fun with some polish, but then scrap them the very next entry (Lost World's parkour for example).
I'm sure there's still very talented people working there, but I've gotten old enough to the point where I can't justify spending a bunch of time playing a mediocre game any longer (there are just too many good games and not enough time). If that makes me not a Sonic fan, sure, so be it. I've played every single entry in the franchise up until recent years so I've probably had the same idea in my head but haven't been able to properly put my finger on how to express it- keep an eye on what was my favorite series growing up, but don't spend too much time dwelling on it if they don't surprise me.
Thanks for the series though. The videos were long but definitely helped me through the workday.
That's your opinion btw.
@Casswury ngl that's actually funny lol
ExImperialDragon But we need the Lost World Badnik models (Said here: www.models-resource.com/wii_u/soniclostworld/) and Jeb’s video is just a big fat Trump Rebel propaganda video designed to weaken hope for Eggman Empire fans. And they deserve the truth about Badniks like Sweeper and Hoverby (ruclips.net/video/xgpQF6uHnbE/видео.html & ruclips.net/video/L-2ptWUYYlc/видео.html). As an old saying goes, “Think before you speak” #freetheBadniks
It feels more like bubsy than sonic tbh.
Chilly Komasan The RUclips video itself? Yeah, but with a spice of Trump Rebel Scum Propaganda on it. Hence why, my videos on the truth of Sweeper and Hoverby are the best. (ruclips.net/video/xgpQF6uHnbE/видео.html & ruclips.net/video/L-2ptWUYYlc/видео.html)
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. *Meme Culture has killed the Sonic franchise*
Meme culture kills everything it touches honestly.
Is it even a culture?
@@theshade0038 People apparently consider it a culture.
So true. It almost feels like it was inevitable no matter the direction the sonic team took with him.
SEGA killed Sonic, not memes.
Bad doesn't mean not creative, is what I get from the dark age tbh. And most of these comments stating they miss the dark age? I...actually kinda agree. There was effort, and god damn a heart-felt attempt at trying to make the game's have an honest to god story and image of being cool at the time. I still get a kick out of looking at games like secret rings despite the absolutely atrocious controls. That game looked fantastic at the time for the wii and it looked like it wanted to tell a fun story even if the writing was a bit cheesy and corny. You don't really get this sorta stuff after black knight. Colors and generations were fine games for the most part although the main complaints I see is the writing, the best way I feel I can put it, is that it doesn't feel cool, none of the newer games in terms of stories feel cool. Which is what sonic is supposed to be imo, I see people defending these games for their stories and such and...well hey whatever floats your boat if ya like it. But the sonic series feels like a hollow shell than what it once was and tried to be, Cool. I still play the newer games cause I'm too damn attached to this series at this point, but I swear if the next game is lazily made like they have been for the last at least 6 years, that's going to change. Music feels like the only thing that's got effort put into it at this point and is the one thing I can still love about this series today.
I wholeheartedly agree; they've gone completely insane (by definition too which is the funny thing), if they can't get a grip i won't be buying anymore of their games! (i haven't bought a game since forces and i'm sure that's a majority of people here.)
(Edit:) what i mean is insane by Einstein's definition at least:
"Albert Einstein is widely credited with saying, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” "
But i think at this point we need to come together and at least come up with a good "ORIGINAL" story to (if by whatever chance they see this) show them that a good story CAN be made! i'll start; if anyone wants to continue be my guest:
we get a view of a countryside, a farmer is tending to his farm when suddenly a giant explosion is heard in the distance. "Holy CRAP!"
his Barn has just been destroyed by something and a chunk of that barn flies toward him as he braces for impact, when suddenly Sonic swoops in to save him; kicking the large thing away, with a triumphant superhero land sonic looks back at the guy to see if he is ok.
@Broey I remember you, you made a comment in someone’s comment section in my discussion page about team sonic racing.
There’s this channel I recommend you watching, the guy’s name is mr sega lives!, he has good taste in video games and knows what should be good for this use to be beloved franchise.
It's like the originals through Heroes is the original trilogy, the 'Dark Age' are the prequels and current Sonic is the Disney trilogy.
I hate the dark age with a passion and I think it's why the franchise is in the state it's in to begin with. But that's always been Sega's fault. Sega NEVER cared about the franchise as form of creative storytelling. It's always been about staying relevant. Ever since the conception. Sonic was created to be Mario's rival. So they made him to be trendy and cool. That's why classic sonic was cool but also cutesy. Since in Japan. Being cute was the best way to market over there while being cool would have more appeal in the west. Sonic has always been about keeping relevant while mario has never had to worry about being relevant. Because while mario innovates and adds new content. It's artistically consistent. It's timeless. But what sega doesn't realize is that sonic also has that potential to be timeless. IF they stop trying to hang onto trends and expand on their world for once instead of making shit up to fit the tone that the time period calls for. The dark age had all the games be ridiculously serious and gritty to the point of stupidity is because that's what video games were doing at the time with their call of duties and gears of wars or whatever. Sonic has no identity. That's why sonic fans are so split. Because for one they literally split sonic in two with generations. But also every sonic fan has a different idea of what makes sonic sonic. Because our idea of sonic is shaped by how we experienced the games. But the games are all so tonally Different that everyone has a different idea of what sonic is. In my case. I think sonic is a series that is light-hearted and fun, not silly and goofy! But colorful and bright. I think adventure's realistic depiction of the sonic world is extremely dumb. And shadow the hedgehog is in my eyes the worst sonic character to exist. (I like him in adventure 2 but he should have stayed dead like they intended). But others think differently from me. They think sonic is dark and serious with a goofy cartoon overcoat to hide the gritty themes and story the story portrays. This in my eyes is a complete departure from my sonic. But could be your perfect sonic. Because everyone's image of sonic is different. Because sonic failed to create an image for himself. That's why mania succeeded. Because it gave sonic an image. It was in tune with what sonic was for many people. Because it was created by people who had a clear image of what sonic was to them.
well said!
While I obviously don’t agree with every single thing in this (for example I feel Tyson’s work has added some LONG needed charm back to the series that’s been lost since like, 2008, although I have to agree I hate Shadow’s characterization in Team Sonic Racing Overdrive) this honestly really resonates with me and perfectly captures the frustrations I’ve been having recently. Even through the supposed “Dark Age,” games like Shadow and 06 felt like they had a heart behind them, like they really tried but unfortunately weren’t given great direction. While I don’t like the stand up comedy routine direction Colors and Generations took, they were at least still fun games that didn’t feel starved for content or new ideas. But ever since 2011… what have we had? The only game I’ve enjoyed since was Mania, which even then is more of a celebration of the series rather than a step forward, as great as the game itself is. But aside from that, we’ve gotten unfun and barren games that still treat the entire series like some kind of joke and are devoid of any kind of charm or memorability. I really do hope something changes soon, we’re basically at a decade of this whole “Meta Era” shit and I’m so done with it. Here’s to hoping things like this video are heard, I truly miss when we got games like Adventure1&2, Heroes, etc.
Oh, hi, Yui!
Although the dark age didn’t have the best games. At least it wasn’t boring at least had some love in it. Classic sonic doesn’t mean good. Games that have love and effort with content to fill us up are good. Yes the games quality in the dark age aren’t good but they have love something that is lacking in today’s sonic. And if your gonna say “uH wHaT aBoUT sOnIc mAniA?” I’ll say yes that’s a game full of love and effort but that’s from a fan not sonic team.
Dude, i really agree with ya.
Me, too
Am I allowed to say that I never found the older game’s bad at all?
RoCk-N-PaRtY yea the games weren’t bad but there weren’t good either but there very memorable and have effort and love
Just because of the “bad games” from the dark age has ruined the reputation sonic team and sega are scared of doing anything with the series so they play it safe with the fans from the 1990’s and squeeze as much nostalgia from them to get good feedback and scores that they would only get back then and that’s kinda sad.
Your experience growing up with Sonic is identical to mine. Being blown away by the bombastic style and gameplay of SA2. Discovering the franchise roots with Sonic Mega Collection. Being confused and excited when I saw all the comic covers with characters I hadn’t seen. Confirming my love for the franchise by playing Sonic Adventure and Sonic Heroes. Thinking that Shadow the Hedgehog was a weird but “cool” experiment. Being excited for the release of Sonic 06 and inevitably shocked when I discovered that Sonic had gained a bad reputation over the years. Backpedaling on my love for the series and dissing the first games I ever played all because “funny reviewer man says it was never good.” Regaining hope when Generations was released to acclaim. All to be slowly burned out as I come to realize that the franchise is now a hollow corpse being held up by the great Sonic Mania and the self-deprecating culture that it unintentionally spawned.
I re-visited the franchise in my own time and re-discovered the genuine legacy that they had established. Sure, some of them have shown their age but how does that detract from the good they accomplished? Super Mario 64 is nowhere near as expansive as Odyssey, but people are still allowed to fondly look back on it. Even when odds were stacked against them, there was an effort to be bold. While there were genuine duds in the “Dark Age,” that doesn’t justify lumping in Sonic’s decades-long history with the likes of any other failed platform mascot. Sonic was a cultural icon, and due to a series of missteps, not only is he being mistreated by critics and fans, but by Sega itself.
The franchise didn’t die. It was beaten into a corner, where it will keep itself just to get by.
Well said & the 4kids Era wasn't even the real dark age for the Sonic Series. The 2010s were the worst decade of Sonic's Career & was overall much worse than the 4kids Era. These dumb Critics who don't understand the series & Fake Fans took control of the series a bit over 10 years ago & ran it to ruin. Sonic didn't even have a bad reputation until 2010 when people suddenly started acting like Sonic was never good & praising Colors for being something Sonic never actually was before, lame.
"I'm not a Modern Sonic fan. I'm not a Classic Sonic fan. I'm a Sonic fan." Wow that actually hit me pretty hard. I've gotten so tired of people categorizing themselves as [insert] fan here when in reality, it's all Sonic. I've honestly gotten to this point to where the only things of the series I've partaken in since Generations is the IDW comics, which apart from some dumb mandates, have excellent writing and the animated shorts, which obviously has flaws as you've mentioned but they're short and easy to watch and the most recent one was easily their best yet and I hope they continue to improve. The only, and I mean the *only*, hope I have for the series in recent times is for passionate fans who care about the series to take over.
Tyson Hesse is an amazing artist, responsible for fixing the atrocity that was the original Sonic movie design, and gives the Sonic characters more life in their art then we've had in the game since arguably Sonic Adventure 2 (I thank Uekawa for the great artwork we had for SA1 and 2).
Ian Flynn is a great writer, knows how to balance comedy and dark elements of stories and has plenty of experience writing Sonic characters way back from the days of Ken Penders. His work on the IDW comics has basically been the only thing tying me to Sonic at all these past few years as the games can't bother to do that with its absolutely garbage writing and whatever they call jokes. Even if you can't get a fan like Ian, bring back Shiro Maekawa. Responsible for Shadow's story in 06, Sonic Adventure 2, and Black Knight. He's gone on record to say that he had a lot of things planned (for example actually tying in Blaze from 06 and Blaze from Rush instead of it being poorly written off as a retcon later on).
Christian Whitehead and his team which gave us the game that Sonic Team is using as an absolute crutch, with his established work on fan games and rom hacks which then got him on board to rebuild the classics from scratch, making them better in the process. A fan gave us a game that vastly overshadowed everything Sonic has done in the past 7 years. A fan.
I've been aboard the camp that didn't want Adventure remakes for the longest time knowing full well Sonic Team would fine some way to butcher it, and I still do, in fact that feeling has only gotten worse over time as each thing Sonic Team did was forgotten about. These are all fans, fans that care and know about the series core more than Sonic Team in recent years have ever done. We've gotten fan projects like P-06 that is fixing Sonic Team's most ambitious game. Like Utopia that tells us that momentum is something we can have in a 3D setting. Like Project Hero that gives us amazing controls that are easy to understand and difficult but satisfying to master. Meanwhile on the official side of things we've only gotten mediocre game after mediocre game, barely any spin offs when we used to get them in between releases all the time. I feel nothing but disappointment at this point. I'm not a fan of the series now but I'll always be a fan of what it once was.
Well said I agree completely the series deserves so much better than the 2010s direction which wasn't even trying to make the series appealing. The 2010s were the real dark age for the Sonic series if you ask me & we need a return to form in the 2020s for the Sonic series. I wouldn't mind Sonic getting an anime made just to appeal to Japanese audiences & get them to like the series, which really shouldn't be too difficult if Sega of Japan actually knew how to market the series there.
I feel like this video reflects the feelings of the majority of the Sonic fandom. But the feelings get held back by denial and nostalgia shades. Sonic Mania is going to be the best and most definitive Sonic game for years to come and that’s very sad.
This is why I love jeb.
His videos are some of the most deep and informative videos on RUclips.
I really wish I could have experienced it to fill effect when he first uploaded but truly thank you jeb.
You are a truly amazing youtuber.
Hey it’s you
i hate that i like the IDW comics more then the games because the fact that the comics are the best part of a VIDEO GAME FRANCHISE shows you something is wrong
RJ The IDW comics are a lot better then the games. It has better writing and better character development then the games do.
The comics have always been surprisingly good.
I'll never forget that time in Archie, where Eggman suffered a (temporary) mental breakdown after yet again losing to Sonic, with Sonic looking genuinely disturbed at what he caused.
@@anexplosion5436 don't forget when robotnick just died
Well win were talking about story's. it makes since for books to have a better story than the games. While I love alot of the self aware humor the games storys need better writing. Now if we could just get the idw writers to write game storys
To be fair, there are some problems with the IDW comics, like how they made shadow a zombot by having him completely ignore Sonics warning, how they’ve brought back the deadly six for like what, the third time now, you know what I mean? I mean, it could be worse. At least it doesn’t have 10 echidna fan characters in the comics (may be under or over exaggerated)
I can honestly agree that this is the true dark age of Sonic, where the developers literally make one game every 5 years and get celebrated for recycling 80% of the content from the older games. This is why I don't even want to know what they'll do in the future. If they make an Adventure game, who knows, they might just make a shallow immitation and ruin the idea of a serious game forever. Whatever "Sonic Rift" is, I sure as fuck hope it's a perfect product, not "good", not "decent", fucking amazing. Some might say I'm picky, afterall no game is perfect, but when you never release a game until the anniversarry I expect it to be a completely unique experience that feels complete, fulfilling, satisfying to complete and keep playing for oure fun. That's what a perfect game is for me, my bare minimum is not being able to play the game or not being buggy, it's being fun without having to think about it. I mean, why should I? Am I giving these developers any credit for doing basic game design? No, that would be crazy, except oh fuck, that's what the Sonic fandom is nowadays, excuse after excuse, treating the developers like children who are working overtime with no pay. That's what I don't want, incompotence, or rather a lack of actual effort. That's the thing, even the shitty games tried something new, no matter how incredibly retarded that idea might be. I don't want to congratulate the same thing I would shit on in 2009.
>watch sonic team make a good “modern” sonic game
>critics say it’s bad because it’s not “classic” sonic
sucks that a series with so much potential is going downhill, I wish I could help.
FUCK THE CRITICS
Yeah, same. It sucks that (MOST)non fans only listen to other non fans.
Fuck critics, those dumb motherfuckers need to be launched into the fucking sun.
@@KnucklesandWade1994_sonic was never good_
@@ironicpolis7798 Even worse, SEGA of America keeps pleasing those brain-dead critics.
I literally loved every single Sonic game until Sonic Colors and then almost everything that’s followed has been.. unfortunately disappointing
You didn't like Generations?
Do I know you?
Akuma3671 to be honest, the only way I can enjoy generations is if I play it in Japanese and only play the modern stages
@@EmuEmi I enjoyed Classic Sonic for what he was, especially since at the time Mania was just a glimmer in Christian Whitehead's eye. I definitely got a kick out of the "Instant Spin Dash", and the levels had some cool set pieces that take advantage of the 2.5-D layout. City Escape, Rooftop Run and Crisis City come to mind.
Generations was the only sonic game that got classic sonic and nostalgia right, everything right after that became total shit.
Won’t lie, I was scared to watch this- But I do agree with a lot of your points. I can’t say I do for the animation shorts, but nothing wrong with that.
I can’t tell you how long I’ve been waiting for the ambitious stories and character the games used to have- the boldness. The characters being awesome and not one dimensional and a former shell of themselves. It sucks, especially when these characters being so in depth was how I got into this series to begin with. I still love this series, don’t get me wrong, but I’m constantly always waiting for that game that feels.. as ambitious as the titles before 2010. Mania was close, at least for me, but I crave for that for the “modern era”- or just for the whole series in general.
This series has been with me since I was 7, I’m 22 now, and I probably won’t be leaving it anytime soon considering how much it means to me personally. My dad introduced me to sonic and it was the thing that we would bond over. He loved sonic and I loved sonic too. The endless hours through the chao garden while I struggled through the hardships of my high school years, the fun memories I have with my little brother now (and still currently), watching sonic X with my dad ,and many more. Sonic means something to everyone. For me, it defined me as someone who loves games, story, and made me the artist I am today.
I’ll say this as a final note, I do hope the series gets its footing back. Sonic as a whole needs to start going for ambition over nostalgia. Take risks, be cool, show us how these characters are cool and have some attitude. I rather have a game with a personally than one that rides on the same nostalgia we’ve been getting for over a decade.
The Dark Age is the post Generations era to now.
Medicore
I lost all hope for a good Sonic game as soon as Tails said "True Dat." That was awful.
I lost all hope when sonic fucking mania became a thing.
@@calebproductions1264 sonic mania is a good game but I can understand why you lost hope because sega keep bringing back classic sonic
That made you worried and not Tails hiding from CHAOS 0. If the next Sonic game has a story Tails needs to redeem himself for his cowardness in Forces
@@radioactivehuman1684 tails and sonic needs to change in the next game
Ugh... I hated that.
I really miss what sonic used to represent. There were so many fun and cool characters like the chaotix, rouge, cream and cheese, there were story elements that actually meant something like the gizoids, Gerald robotnik, Angel island, and most importantly, the games still had a heart.
The series has been disappointing and lazily handled for a full decade. My favorite sonic character is cream the rabbit. When was the last time I was able to play as cream? Sonic advance 3. When was the last time she even appeared in a game? As a slight cameo in sonic generations. That was in 2011, and sonic advance 3 was all the way back from 2004. How about my second favorite character omega? He hasn’t been playable since 06 and even when he did show up in forces it was the most pathetic waste of time in the world.
But that’s just the characters, what about the stories? Sonic was never known for its story, but adventure 1, 2, heroes, and unleashed all had really good stories. Not only did they have darker serious tones to them, but they still had fun while telling the stories. I bursted out laughing when sonic said “letting knuckles pilot the ship on the way here was more dangerous than you’ll ever be!” Or in heroes when he said “eggman’s got a serious problem. Just look at that statue!” Even the simpler games like the advance and rush series still had fun stories. But now? Happy funny bubbles. That’s it. No ambition, not even consistency, just nothing but trying to make memes out of itself.
But lastly, what about the gameplay? The reason why you even touch a game to begin with? Well you can’t play as anyone except sonic now. You can’t even play as tails. All the fun characters that exist for their own reasons have been shoved to the side so sonic can take all the spotlight and I hate it. The reason why I even got into the series is because I can play as sonic’s friends. But if I can’t do that, then what’s the point?! I’m still desperately hoping sonic team makes a 3d game with multiple characters that isn’t just a skin, but has their own way of going about the stages and the gameplay isn’t boost, and I want the story to just TRY something cool, but it’s been over a decade, and there isn’t much hope left besides a distant dream.
I love sonic, but I hate what he is now
Yes. To the point I might as well stick to Sonic X, because that TV show didn't make me cringe, unlike most 2010s games.
@@tiruliru1189
Yay another Sonic x fan. =)
When Sonic Mania released, i honestly thought it was the revival of Sonic. Then Forces released. Nothing happened and it was only downfall after that.
The old days were so much fun and... well, COOLER. The whole point of Sonic was to be cool. Now, its just a joke of a franchise being played off for laughs.
Either kill the franchise entirely try to bring back what it once was. A cool icon and a rival to the red plumber.
I understand your point, yet I wouldn’t say Mania was ruined by Forces, even after both were released people were still praising the hell out of Mania and the people wanted more from it so the very next year, that’s what we got
I’m 25 and I grew up with sonic and I’ve seen what he’s become sonic was great in the classic era and adventure era because of there stories now the all have become parodies version of themselves but all of the characters were originally meant to be taken as seriously and I’m so sick of memes and the comedy isn’t even funny I heard they took the adventures of sonic the hedgehog approach wich is really retarded too do sonic gases were great until 2010
Sonic was originally shonen like everything has become a parody of itself and I no longer recognise this franchise
@@freyaljones7368 Everything good about the 90s, 2000s and even the early 2010s (even with Boom games and TV show) is now gone. Everyone (even Orbot and Cubot, Sticks, Tangle, Dr. Starline, Jewel, Whisper and Infinite, and Boom TV cast) were thrown under the bus in favor of trash like Deadly Six and Classic Sonic, characters (ie. Babylon Rogues, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Big, Dr. Eggman) have been ruined, SEGA relies on nostalgia, Green Hill is getting overused AF, no playable characters (other than Sonic and Classic Sonic), bare-bone gameplay, safe, boring, kiddy, bland, awful storytelling, I could go on and on how SEGA ruined our boy Sonic...
Also, I agreed with this, but the downfall since Forces (2017)? Nah man, the downfall started with Lost World (2013).
I don't care what anyone says, I will always love sonic riders.
"Tails is gaaaaaaaaaning momentum!"
I like Sonic Riders, but I had to hear that WAY too much for my own good.
I think fans don't like Sonic FREE riders.
All Sonic Riders games have great aspects: the complex gameplay, slick artstyle, and sorry of Riders 1, the soundtrack and great animations of Zero Gravity, and the music and graphics of Free Riders. The series was great, but the Kinect killed it, if only they put Free Riders on the Wii.
@Christian Tolliver Their concepts and release date made them get a lot of undeserved hate. It also didn't help that Sonic has bad controls at the start of Secret Rings and you have to upgrade them.
@Christian Tolliver There's so many forgoten Sonic characters.
I remember when Espio and Charmy were still characters with their own thing going on, not really copying Sonic and Tails but just their own identities and shit
Those characters are lame. Nobody cares about them.
you can take a shit there's plenty who do
I keep saying this but.. the comics fix this up pretty well especially with the latest.. arc.. poor charmy..
@@NonStopKnocks They used to be good, but now they are absent.
Remember when Sonic had a plot line? That was cool. Oh, and relevant side-characters? I think there was one called "Cream"
Remember when other characters were playable? There was Yellow Sonic, Red Sonic, Pink Sonic, Fat Sonic and Robot Sonic.
@@dragondelsur5156 An era I miss
Tariq Saddler
Nah, just the Mandela effect striking again. Clearly, Sonic was never like that to begin with.
I fucking love Cream, I also like Big (don't kill me pls). I also love Omega (my personal favorite character)
Remember when we had Shadow, Chris, Chip, Rouge, Omega, the Chaotix, Jet, Wave, and Storm?
This stuff makes me really depressed. Colors is a fantastic game in terms of level design, but it absolutely killed the series’s spirit. Colors made Sonic into a joke, and it’s only gotten worse. My hope is that SEGA will finally be confident again. I hope they stop listening to nostalgia-blind older gamers like Arin of Game Grumps. I hope they stop listening to the meme-obsessed kids that love the newer games. I’m not saying that those people’s opinions are invalid, but they shouldn’t be used as a reference point for what the series should be. Frankly, I don’t give a shit what any of the fans think Sonic should be. I care what Sonic thinks Sonic should be. The SEGA executives and Sonic Team are trying so hard to please everyone that they’ve forgotten what the series is about, and it’s just...really sad. I can’t talk about one of my favorite game series around my friends because they immediately say I don’t have good taste in games or that I’m a furry. And I hate that. I’m 18, and there was a time when liking Sonic was cool. This supposed “Dark Age” may have produced a few subpar games, but it did that while still remembering the ideas and themes that were at the series’s core. I just hope that Sonic doesn’t die out. I don’t want one of my childhood heroes to be written off as a failure and forgotten. I want to see Sonic shine again, to show everyone once again exactly what he’s made of. Everything he’s made of. Not just the genesis era memories. Not just the adventure era thrills. Not just the modern era memes and comedy. I want it all. Because like Jeb said: I’m not a modern Sonic fan, or a classic Sonic fan. I’m a fan of Sonic the motherfucking Hedgehog, and I want to be able to say that with pride again.
Colors was there last original game it had everything going for it but they story
Colours level design was shit. I'm sorry if that offends you but waiting on a platform or some switch for an obstacle to clear is just not level design. 06 gets called all kinds of things but it wouldn't DARE have you stand on a switch and just wait. Waiting.
WAITING! IN A SONIC GAME!
@@joshwillcox7141 "'06 gets called all kinds of things but it wouldn't DARE have you stand on a switch and just wait."
I'm going to have to disagree. While Colours did have a few levels that were gimmicky like how you described, let's not forget that 06 had boss fights that had you waiting for shit to happen, like the Iblis Phase 2 boss fight where you homing attack the glowing purple ball and you wait for a while for Iblis to bite it or something for you to attack. And let's not forget that after attacking, your in the air for close to 20 seconds.
Maybe it's just some bias because I actually enjoy Colours.
That's exactly my feeling.
@@joshwillcox7141 06 as a whole is slow as balls. Everyone's top speed is pitiful, only Sonic can spin dash to go 5% faster, there's no momentum, and grind rails are completely scripted. No balancing for speed like in SA2, or even speeding up like in Shadow.
I don't even feel like a Sonic fan anymore when i thought that the IDW comics and the Sonic movie (and maybe its upcoming sequels) are what keeping the franchise alive.
Next year is Sonic's 30th anniversary, so that's why i'm still having hope in him, no matter how many bad fellow kids type of memes made, i'm still supporting him.
It's hard to just be a fan of anything in general, that's just the unfortunate truth.
The problem stems far away from sonic, the self aware humor has been infecting all sorts of media.
At least in some form of media, the self awareness works for being separate from the main content, in sonic's case... yikes
If they wanna do self aware humor, they should do it occasionally. At least then it's not so in our faces.
Honestly, I feel like SEGA just randomly created a beautiful character back in 1991, but had no idea what to do with him up to these days. You can love or hate Sonic's "Dark age", you can love or hate his current and classic state, but Sonic games always felt like they had way more potential. I mean, if another company can make better games about a fat plumber with no personality, while you have this awesome franchise with colourful cast, you know that you're doing something wrong.
Sega has always had the talent but their management is something else. They make decisions which to an outsider make no fucking sense tbh. It's a shame.
Honestly they should of kept sonic the same like Mario everybody still loves it coz of the gameplay it’s still originally the same! Instead of making stupid edgy weird side courses
@@myristicina. Well, as the guy in the video said, it's not guaranteed that SEGA wouldn't fuck up even with "classic formula". The general idea of the series is kinda going fine with all those edgy characters if only Sonic Team knew how to use them right.
This.
The problem is that sonic was made for business sakes, he was made to be the opposite of mario and mario's said console which means sonic as a concept can never play it safe aka things that work. The first games were made to show how much better the sega console was..so what do you do when you stop making consoles and the mascot you made to promote those said consoles has to stick to it's counter movement? There is nothing to do with this character anymore, the best that can be done has already been done.
Damn, this hit hard. I loved the recent self-aware nature of Sonic on social media despite not really liking it in the games, but I wasn't really able to see how much one directly affected the other. This breakdown of why it's a problem almost makes me feel guilty in a way for liking those so much. I think I'm still kinda hopeful for the future of this franchise, especially considering the movie wasn't terrible, but this is really making me look at things differently.
And if that wasn't enough, it's a little silly but the use of Brawl music at the end legitimately made me tear up a bit.
I apologize for any guilt I bring upon people with this video. It is truly not my desire to make anyone feel guilty for enjoying what they enjoy. But given how respectful you were, despite the perspective maybe being something new for you, I'm sure you knew that. Thank you. :)
So people just really hate the self-aware jokes with sonic? I agree that's annoying but how in any way does that make everyone so dramatic talking about their past and acting like sonic is dead? Mainline sonic is usually like 50% average, 25% amazing, 20% mediocre, and like 5% Horrible. That is 75% of the mainline series better than average. so I don't see anything wrong in that department. Or is there something I'm missing lol?
Coolman21 I think it’s more of how it is affecting the games. Memes are jokes people on the internet make, but those memes are being present in the games themselves. Omochao is known as someone who does nothing but gives obvious tips and information. While it works in LEGO dimensions since LEGO games are known to be self aware and kinda poke fun at the source materials, Amy literally states that Omochao is the “master of exposition” in Team Sonic Racing. Also in Team Sonic Racing, Big is portrayed as a big dumb idiot just because that’s how the media treats him. Just a few examples.
@@RiqMoney817 hmm ok
@@RiqMoney817 it’s not really that referencing that kind of stuff is a bad thing, but when stuff like that is done, the most important thing to remember when doing it is: Don’t overdo it, also as for what they did with Big, I don’t think they can go very far with what he was originally but I think they should at the very least make him like he was in Sonic Heroes as someone who stands up for his friends but still have sort of Patrick Star like character traits (which is ironic because they share Japanese voice actors)
The truth of this video really sinks deep. Honestly, the franchise is practically a walking corpse by now, a zombie. At least with the "Dark Age", while the quality of the games was certainly... questionable, at least they tried, each game was unique. I'm gonna be honest, the memes of the social media team were funny at first yeah, but this franchise has devolved by living off memes. It's honestly as bad as fucking Bubsy, and I never thought I'd compare the too. It honest to god really fucking pisses me off that a series I hold so dear and near to my heart is stuck in this fucking storm of bullshit, memes, and mediocrity. All I ask for is a good game, is that honestly so hard to do? Mania was the most fun time I had in a Sonic game in YEARS, but that doesn't they need to milk it dry and live off of it.
Banber 2000
Even Mania fell into the comedic trappings of the rest, despite improved gameplay.
God, it feels like they haven't been trying ever since colors came out. Honestly I've never really liked that game all that much, and i hate that newer sonic games keep repeating the stuff i hate from that game like a safe story, shitty jokes and annoying wisps that slow down gameplay. I also can't stand the nostalgia pandering games like lost world and forces are doing. I don't really mind it in msnia though, as that adds some new gimmicks to old levels, and the references feel like they come from a place of love (i.e fang, bark and bean re appearing), rather than the shit Sega thinks we love like green hill for the 10th fucking time. I miss when sonic games tried.
Fuck sonic colors, it has done nothing but ruin this series
Sam Fisher at least Colors tried to do something unique. No nostalgia pandering in that game.
@@justinc.5591 No it didn't all it did was copy Mario galaxy and made sonic completely lose his identity, it's a game that didn't need to exist
@@samfisher2891 Sonic colors is my favorite Sonic game, although I do agree It was Sonic's catalyst, it still is a really good game
@@finnaget_busy I think the game is fucking shit and anyone who likes it is a fucking normie bitch baby, but you're entitled to your wrong opinion
I can hardly believe I've found a small community of people who FINALLY understand and have similar view to my own about the state of this franchise! Jeb I feel like you and I need to sit down and have a cup of coffee, and I dont even like coffee!
You mirror every.......single.......concern and problem I have had with this series since Sonic Colors came out back in 2010. Down to the very last way you've worded it in fact, its downright scary. More than anything bless you man for just SAYING it! Even if it is fleeting, I feel now more than EVER a hope for the series like never before. Even if nothing comes of it in the future of the franchise from here on out, just the fact I know their are other people out there like me who are disappointed with everything the series stands for today, brings warmth to level I never thought I'd feel again when I think of this series.
Just thank you man, for FINALLY saying it after all these years! Thank you for showing me a sanity towards this series that I haven't found in a long time. It's REALLY refreshing to see. You're a true Sonic fan in my eyes. One who takes the quality of the games under consideration.
Hey! What a coinkydink! I don't like coffee either, I'm more of a hot chocolate guy. Thanks for watching!
@@JebZone Well what ANOTHER coinkydink! I'm a hot chocolate guy too! And you're welcome!
@@JebZone I'm a hot chocolate person too so cheers people and Merry Christmas fellas.
@@JebZone Well i guess i'm the only one who likes coffee.
Joseph Franc So are the people who like the Sonic franchise now not 'true' Sonic fans?
This feels a lot like the cartoon community who got less action-drama mixed-age cartoons in exchange of slapstick nonsense like Teen Titans Go or Thunder Cats. All parodies of themselves.
I've watched every video of this series and I wanted to say you really got me nostalgic and inspired by Sonic again (you really did an awesome job with these videos). I also grew with SA2 like you and I share a lot of tastes with you regarding Sonic. I didn't react as strongly as you, I just had grew out of Sonic many times again. I felt inspired to play again just to drop it later (especially after playing Forces). But your videos really got into my soul as what I REALLY like about Sonic. And I feel better about it, better than ever.
Anyway, I think this self-parody thing is just a phase, a trend. Eventually people like you will get to make Sonic, like Tyson and Christian got their chance to express love for the classics. More and more people are speaking out about how they love the Adventure era (me included) and I think that eventually something good will happen for us. Even if temporary.
This video is literally all my thoughts towards the franchise and SEGA. You completely speak my language, Jeb. Thank you.
Edit : Holy crap !!! 160 likes ?! Thanks :D
So I've been wanting to talk about the last decade of Sonic as a whole on my channel for a while now (I'm in my final Uni year so whatever the case it's gonna have to wait) but having watched this video several times now I really couldn't have said it better myself, I don't necessarily agree with everything said, but you've articulated my frustration and clearly the frustrations of many others perfectly.
I'm on record saying I actually think Sonic is in a relatively good place, mostly due to how thriving it's creative community currently is which a lot of the recent official content has done a lot to encourage (Mania, Hesse's animations, the IDW comics, etc.) but not gonna lie, in 2019 it's been hard for me to still feel that way.
We're now in a very similar slump to what we were in between 2013 and 2017, with sparse, anaemic, lukewarm releases like Lost World and TSR that fizzle out after no time at all, to embarrassing spectacles like Rise of Lyric and the Sonic movie reveal, things that nobody could've reasonably expected to turn out how they did, and yet, in my case, just end up feeling foolish for not doing so anyway.
All this while being kept in the dark by Sega and Sonic Team, desperate for some clarity as to where this series could possibly go next.
The difference now being that, thanks to Sonic Forces, I can't even have faith that Sonic Team are using their time effectively.
While I can't really bring myself to hate the twitter memes and what some of the tertiary content like Hesse's animations do to facilitate that whole thing (animators like drawing funny faces, what can I say?), the fact that it all so thoroughly eclipses the stuff we're supposed to care about: the actual games, influencing their appeal and direction when it should be the other way around is honestly pitiful.
I don't know, right now I think I'm In a state of apathy more than anything; there's some stuff going on that I see reason to be excited for and I see how things could improve if the series takes the right steps, but I can easily see those steps not being taken.
At this point in time things could go either way; Sonic's turning 30 in 2021, that's a big number, not to mention a new decade altogether, so I think some kind of rebranding of the series to usher in a new era is probably a given, how they choose to define this new era is key, hopefully it won't yet again be defined by the failures of the past.
While your dissolution is so relatable it's palpable, there is an optimistic part of me that can't help but persist; Sonic has had at least 3 critically celebrated games in the last 10 years, think of how many other franchises in that amount of time don't even get one of those, that's more than you can say for something like Star Fox or Metroid.
Maybe you take issue with all those games in their design choices or how they supplant Sonic's identity (I certainly do) and maybe you think their positive reception is more rooted in Sonic's "politics" (for lack of a better word) than any genuine adoration of quality, but people still like them, and in the end that's all that should matter.
Oof, this comment is a phat mess, overall I just want to say thanks for these videos bro, I first watched your one about Heroes, It's not one of my favourites but you did a good job providing a detailed, nuanced take on that game that is both positive and sensible that I've been starved for, hope you had a good Christmas.
Hey! I've seen your stuff before! ... I really ought to get around to watching "Making Sonic Forces Again." I thank you so much for watching my video(s) and giving a pretty good take here in the comments today. I've seen comments somewhat similar to this before, and I will admit that I've been given some hope from it all. I hope one day I can genuinely join the crowd of happy folks in the Sonic community.
I really liked your video essays
All I can really say dude is that I totally understand what you mean and this video was beyond good and so truthful that it hurt (in a good way lol). It's funny because as I look back with my history and likeness for the Sonic series, I realized that I technically phased out of Sonic as well though a bit earlier than you admittedly. For me personally, I phased out after Sonic Unleashed. This was in part because I didn't have a Wii so I had to miss out on Sonic Colors back when it first came out and then I only had a short stint with Sonic Generations and it was from there when I did check out of the series but I just didn't admit it. I didn't want to. Because I held onto the good memories I had with games like Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Advance 1 & 2, Sonic Heroes, and the classic Sonic games . Hell I'll even throw Sonic The Fighters and Sonic R to that mix. I didn't want to admit that I was losing interest in the franchise but the truth is... I did. When you stop buying games on first day release and put off on buying the game for years when you have the finance to do that, I think that says a lot. I believe that Sonic Riders was the last Sonic game I bought on the year it came out and then after, I'd be waiting year or two after a new Sonic game came out. But then after Sonic Unleashed , I just mentally checked out. I didn't even play Sonic Generation until 3 years after it came out. 2 YEARS. And it was regarded as a great game (at the time anyway) and even when I finally got around to playing it, I was just going through the motions. I felt good but yet I felt something was missing. This could be though that I was bored with the Boot mechanic at this point and I just wanted Sonic to control like he did in Sonic Adventure / Sonic Adventure 2 as opposed to the stiff way he controlled in the Boost-based gameplay.
I just noticed I stopped caring. When Sonic Lost Word came out, I didn't care (Still haven't played the game till this very day), I didn't care about Sonic Boom, I didn't care about Sonic Runners. And while I'm not much of a classic 2D Sonic fan in comparison to the 3D Adventure era in terms of Game-play (I just prefer being on a 3D plane as opposed to 2D plane), I can admit that I was glad Sonic Mania succeeded and it showed with proper direction (and the fact it got help from big classic Sonic fans in it's development), it's clear to see that they exploited it's success and are running it into the ground. And then we got Sonic Forces and that was when I was like "Okay I'm done. I've had enough". Mainly because that game had no reason to end up the way it did, it was an utter embarrassment that even the character creator couldn't save it.
I never followed the social media accounts but after seeing what you showed, I'm glad I didn't. It totally is obnoxious and it's clear they're just trying to turn Sonic into meme fodder instead of delivering a new great Sonic game that doesn't have to fall back on tired nostalgia. I agree with you, I'm not particularly looking forward to a remake of Sonic Adventure & Sonic Adventure 2 neither because I just know they'll botch it. The new voice actors, I just could never get behind and hearing them speak the original lines that the Adventure Cast brought heart into? No thanks. It's even to a point where I don't want to see a Sonic Adventure 3, not with where the series is now. The voice acting is divisive, the characters have been flanderized, it's hard to know just what the state of their setting is now... There's just no structure anymore.
The only positive thing the Sonic franchise has is the music which will always be good. I didn't care about Team Sonic Racing but I still looked up the soundtrack and I found myself liking quite a bit of the new original music. It's also nice how Sonic Team is at least interactive with their fanbase which is something you don't see much of but that's about it. The games are in a terrible limbo state and there's no sign of it getting better. The only thing I'll say about the animated shorts is that they should've just made a new animated series. This is the kind of animated series a lot of us were wanting back in the day (but instead we got Sonic X... Yeesh...)
So Jeb, I do agree with you and I'm not surprised that you feel burned out with the series. I'm a bit older than you (28 here) and what you're feeling now is how a lot of people around my age bracket felt when the dark era of Sonic started. Like you, many of us will always be curious about Sonic and we'll cherish the good memories we had with the games we liked but for the most part, a lot of us moved not making Sonic be our main focus in gaming anymore.
But yeah, good video. :)
Sonic then : Original and fast gameplay with plenty of action and platforming!
Sonic now : *_n o s t a l g i a_*
They have ruined sonic himself they flanderized him and I think it’s an insult on sonic himself sonic isn’t all sbout joking around he’s action filled plots he’s basically a super hero like marvel I miss the adventure sonic and isn’t sonic meant to be shonen and aiming for teens well why is he gone child friendly I no longer recognise the blue blur from my childhood 😔😪
I don’t agree on the Tyson rant but everything else is fair.
Patrick PFC same, I kinda cringed a bit at that part.
I cringed even harder at the TSR part where Robotnik does that dumb suprised oval mouth face and stole the trophy from Tails as if he didn't knew he didn't earn that, then dances around like an idiot.
GREATEST EVIL SCIENTIFIC GENIUS IN THE WORLD EVERYBODY!!!
@@yungmuney5903 i liked that part though.
@@yungmuney5903 Evil genius ≠ mature or serious. There's plenty of depictions in the series which display that, not just whatever Tyson Hesse animated.
@@yungmuney5903 sounds like you just don't like fun tbh
God, FINALLY. A video that puts all of my thoughts together about the franchise right now.
I hated Colours. I hated Free Riders. Sonic Generations gets a pass since it was an anniversary game. Lost World wasn't it. We're not even going to talk about the Boom franchise. Sonic Mania was just them appealing back to the boomers who hated 3D Sonic. Sonic Forces really hit the nail in the coffin for me. They didn't fucking care.
When they started giving a shit about what Arin had to say about the franchise, these clowns had the audacity to give him CUPCAKES... Cupcakes for what? For shitting on your flagship franchise? The character that puts money in your pockets?? What the fuck are you doing SEGA??? Why are you giving a fuck about HIM? Why are you listening to people who don't give a damn about Sonic? WHY aren't you listening to actual FANS of Sonic the Hedgehog? Oh yeah that's right, because y'all don't give a shit about us. We're right at the bottom for you lot. A fucking pity. But it says everything, doesn't it? We don't matter to you.
The fact that they hired English writers who knew nothing of Sonic prior to Colours... nah. Just no way. It's no wonder the English dialogue is a joke. TSR was horrendous with it.
The social media jokes are just annoying now and the fact that they make its way into the games is the most irritating thing I've ever had to endure. Just stop it. I don't care. We don't care. Keep that shit out of the games. Stop milking the same old Big the Cat jokes, stop milking the edgy Shadow jokes. They aren't funny anymore. Not when the games have been so boring this decade. So be quiet. Just. Be. Quiet.
I'm tired of Tails sticking around and depending on Sonic. That isn't his character. That was never supposed to be his character. Yes, he's Sonic's sidekick but Tails was always dependable with himself. Tails isn't weak. He was never USELESS. So why are they damaging his character this way? The same thing applies to everyone else. The Dark Age Sonic games proved everyone was strong and unique in their own way and was USEFUL. Why aren't we seeing that anymore?
The Dark Age gave the franchise a whole identity. Sonic wasn't trying to BECOME like Mario in any sense during that time period. You know why? Because Sonic Team took risks and actually TRIED. They actually gave a fuck about the series and the stories and gave every single character some sort of back story because they cared. THEY CARED. Hell, Sonic 06 even showed that and that's dubbed as the worst Sonic game. But you know what? Props to that game for trying. I would've loved to see another Sonic game like that without a dodgy storyline and with improved gameplay but are y'all gonna do that? Nope. Because you fuckers love throwing stuff aside and never look back at it ever again. Then go onto making the most mediocre boring games to ever come out of your asses.
Fix your shit, Sega. I'm sick of it.
Not trying to be like Mario during the dark age? LOL dude, Sonic was literally rescuing a princess in 06 who was constantly getting captured with the whole "Sorry, your Princess is in another castle" schtick and he felt so Out Of Character in 06. I give them points for trying, but Sonic 06 is still a massive turd to me.
Sonic Team has always had a problem. Their problem is they have no fucking middle ground. They are either too experimental in a bad way [Big the cat in SA1, the treasure hunter levels in SA2, 06 as a whole, the Werehog gimmick in unleashed], or they play it too safe.
I liked Sonic Mania. No that doesn't make me a Boomer because I was just a kid when the first Sonic game came out. However, I do agree that Sega and Sonic Team has been sort of using Sonic Mania as a crutch.
I agree I understand where you're coming from but Sonic 06 is a different matter in the dark age anyway. It was unpolished and like I said, the story was dodgy. I wasn't for Sonic's story at all but I do believe Shadow and Silver's story were far more interesting since they relayed more on Mephiles and Iblis. That's why I'm glad the game didn't focus SOLEY on Sonic and rather more on the other two. That's what I'm missing from the games.
The problem is, companies don't like taking risks anymore. As in, they listen far too much from the people who never cared about the product they are making in the first place. This is exactly what's happening to Sonic. Sonic Team are playing the safe card because they don't want to disappoint those same people who hated the early 2000 Sonic games right up until Black Knight. That's just it. Those same people hated when Sonic Team cared about the other characters other than Sonic, those people same hated when Sonic Team wanted to take the stories further. That's where I'm trying to get at. However, Sonic Team are to blame for even listening to those and becoming lazy.
Don't get me wrong, Mania is a wonderful game and I too love playing it. I'm not hating on it on any means but I do think Sonic Team just wanted to shut some of the folks up who complained that they wanted the classic style back. Though, I guess that's a stretch for me to think so I won't dwell on it too much. It sounds ridiculous but it's how I feel. Especially when they keep shoving it in our faces all the time.
I dont even care about the back lash of Sonic. He's good.
@@KokoLockhart that's exactly the problem with the Star Wars sequel trilogy too. In my opinion, the Sequel Trilogy's problem isn't that it's so called "Feminist Propaganda". It's that they're trying too hard to appease the original trilogy Purists. The ones who won't accept anything other than their originals, and will psychologically warp their memories to fit their nostalgic viewpoints (Empire Strikes Back used to be hated).
At least Colors didn’t rely on nostalgia.
"Missed potential"
>Brings up infinite
Honestly, that's how I felt with infinite, there should have been more.
Theres still a chance they can fix him as a recurring villain like Metal Sonic or something. But i dont see that happening
Infinite should of been a super sonic boss
@@KageJason yeah but instead super sonic is dlc that's is free but it was originally priced for like $3.
Why don’t sega do games like sa2 anymore
I honestly miss the Shonen anime style sonic had back in the 2000's. Now it's just something I could only call Family guy if it was written by the writers of my little pony.
Me too
Except MLP (or FIM, at least) had actually good writers.
@@KingdomHeartsBrawler ^Fact
I remember when Sonic used to be considered Mario's rival but now Sonic the Hedgehog is a franchise held together by memes and nostalgia. The last main Sonic game (Sonic Forces) felt like a bland and boring version of Sonic Generations with a half assed gimmicky custom character being thrown in while the last main Mario game (Super Mario Odyssey) massively improved on the core gameplay and introduced a well implemented gimmick via Cappy. It's funny how as recent as just before Sonic 06 came out the 2 franchises were still considered rivals (even tho SEGA no longer made consoles at that point) but now the only name in platformers (Espically 3D platformers) is Mario while Sonic is the meme franchise that banks off of nostalgia to get anywhere...
Grandmaster Zest
The avatar is very much in the spirit of the Werehog.
Sad, but true
I remember when sonic was respected and cool enough to be the one to save the smash multiverse in brawl out of nowhere. today, he basicly needs some random fans to step in or else the only factor keeping him alive is christian whitehead and that is not a world I want to live in(I actually disliked mania. it is just not my type of game)
The worst thing about this video is:
you're right (to me at least)
24:28 "We just want to jump around on robots and make jokes. Well make a joke they did."
This line here, just perfectly sums everything up and my feelings with the series for far too long now.