I remember learning the framon and thinking it was super complicated. Eventually I got it tho and it really wasn't as complicated as everyone made it seem lol. #lockboss
It’s nice to see these two machines go head to head. They both seem to be very good manual code cutting machines. I think like they said if you spent more time on one vs. the other you could get keys rolling out pretty quick. #LockBoss
The Framon 2 is built to last years and years. Dependability and accuracy that stands alone plus no need for the cards is the reason I choose Framon over the Blitz. #Lockboss
I’ve used both in my opinion the framon 2 is rock solid🤘🏼🤙!!! We didn’t see you guys try the keys to confirm they worked lol! That was fun to watch!🤙🤘🏼#Lockboss
I have both machines and they each serve a purpose. If you want supreme accuracy, the Framon wins. If you want speed and ease of use the 1200 can't be beat. I tend to use the 1200 more often because being accurate to 1/1000th of an inch isn't usually critical for most locks and keys. Both are great machines and I'm not planning to part with either of them. Thanks for another great #Lockboss video!
I love my 1200, but that's what I came up on... ALSO I got it from a retiring locksmith shortly after I went out on my own, so mine was made in the 80s (don't know if the quality has gone down since then) and came with a huge selection of jaws, extra cutters (including a few of the carbide cutters) and a HUGE selection of cards, that would have cost me thousands if I'd bought them separately. Also, I don't do new autos, anything after about 2000 I'm gonna refer the customer. I know there's money there, but industrial, commercial, and residential keep me plenty busy, and my real passion is antiques (thankfully I live where they're plentiful).... Besides, two of the other locksmiths in town that do auto well, do a REALLY good job with it, both in terms of both skill and customer service. That's ALL they do, so I refer auto customers to them, they refer residential, etc, customers to me. The results are happy customers and we all get to do what we specialize in which makes life easier, overhead cheaper, and good business relations with other shops. I honestly haven't had too much trouble keeping it calibrated. Had it for 8 years now and only had to calibrate it twice... The calibration kit is a must though, because when it goes out it's a PITA to get back to spec without the kit, so it's well worth the money. As far as accuracy, I've never had a serious problem, but I will say when you're using it, your body posture is IMPORTANT. However you're sitting or standing while using it, you want to do that EVERY TIME, so that you're looking at the indicator and card at the same angle every time. Same thing as an oldschool lathes or milling machines with hand crank dial indicators. I find that's most of the trouble newer users have with it. If you're leaning left or right, you're gonna be off... maybe not always enough to matter, but still off against a set of calipers and eventually it'll be off enough to matter. . I've had a few chances to play with the Framon 2 and it's CLEARLY a solid machine, but having come up using 1200s I prefer it... I think it's more what you're used to. Also, I know it's big these days to originate every key by code, but unless it's something with EXTREMELY tight tolerances (SFIC, etc) I don't. I check calibration my duplicators and 1200 weekly, so I'll code cut two, and then just duplicate the rest so speed of code cutting isn't an issue. The only exception is Schlage and Kwikset residential, being the most popular around here I figured the Rytan duel punch machine was a good investment in terms of money and space, and it has been, especially for a locksmith who's mobile / home shop only and doesn't have a storefront.
I have only used the 1200 and found it to be great for what I needed it for. I do want to check out the framon eventually though. Thanks for the great video! #lockboss
Great to see the key machine battles are back! I don’t own a 1200 and I haven’t started using my Framon 2 yet, but I will soon. From the demonstrations I’ve seen, I’m glad I decided on the Framon 2 over the 1200. Thank you PJ, Kid Lock and Javon! #LockBoss
Awesome video, I’ve never worked with a Framon machine mainly the Blitz but I bet you’d never be off with Framon when it comes to depths and spaces👌🏽 #LockBoss
That was a different kind of "switch" blitz 😆 I don't own either machine, I have a different manual code cutter / duplicator. I'm liking the precision of the Framon 2 though.
In my experience with both machines when it comes to the framon 2 it lacks the speed with automotive keys but with commercial keys its good. vice versa on the hpc 1200 #LockBoss
Quickness doesn't necessarily mean your an expert, although, its good to be fast. The quality of work performed and as long as the customer is happy with the product is what matters.
framon 2 is a beast period, I wish I would have gotten the framon after I purchased the 1200. I started to get the framon, but everyone here in the shop uses the blitz so got the blitz. solid machine I like it, but I believe the framon is more accurate and consistent
Very good battle. I think I would have to go with the Framon because of the accuracy. Speed isn't everything and like they said in the video, use long enough and speed will pick up. #Lockboss
Great video! I only have the Blitz and like it, although if you’d been selling the Framon when I got mine things might be different. Thanks for sharing, you guys are awesome! #Lockboss
#Lockboss Definitely can see where they both are great machines. I love the accuracy with the Framon. Very tight machine, with no backlash at all. Great comparison. 👍
That was a fun video to watch, and a lot of great comments below from the #lockboss family. As a newbie, I appreciate all the experience on here! Speed is fine, but accuracy is the biggest factor (learned this the hard way). Because I was never trained on a Framon, I don't have any experience with it, which is why I bought my Blitz 1200. Because I am mobile and specialize in residential work, it works fine for my purposes, and I will have to watch out for the calibration issues you all have mentioned. I wouldn't mind trying a Framon. Hey, PJ, for a future video. How about a video walking someone through using the micrometer cards on the HPC Blitz for when the actual key blank card doesn't exist or isn't available? I had to figure it out on my own after discovering that I didn't have a card for the TM15 blank.
There’s an aftermarket kit put out by prolok a few years back that will speed up cutting keys on the HPC. I have the kit for sale (used). But I’ll always say the Framon is more accurate and the HPC is usually faster depending on the cuts and the access to the d/s stuff. #lockboss
If you want to find out how well your key machine is calibrated, cut a 10 cut Toyota and see how well it works in the lock. On High Security Code Machines, cut a Honda to see how well it works. #Lockboss
I own both Code Machines. I would agree with the guys in the video, you can be rolling along cutting accurate keys and then suddenly your HPC will be off. It’s a great machine, but as long as it’s been around, you’d think they would look at this particular problem and try to resolve it. With the Framon, you just can’t beat accuracy. #Lockboss
I started out with the 1200 Blitz, but I can see where having the Framon 2 in my shop would be a benefit. Thanks for another great video, PJ! #AccessLockKeyLLC #HaulinBrass #LockBoss
I used an HPC for years and got vary fast on it because it was what the company had. But starting my own business. I'm getting a Framon2. Not only because of the tank like build. But mainly for the value you get with it. You not only get a machine that will out last you in life. But you also get, for $1800, Is a $700 code source, and a $50 set of dial calipers. So you are actually getting the machine for about $1000. With an HPC, also a good machine if taken care of, you pay $3,000 for it and then need to pay another $800 for the code source and dial calipers. And the Framon2 also gives you many other benefits that the HPC simply can't give you. Just an opinion from a man starting up his own business and needs the highest value for the lowest cost. #LOCKBOSS
Thanks Guys, You should compare these machines with two different types of key. The Blitz would win. Remember, you have to change and calibrate the spacer block with different keys. #lockboss
I'm really starting to understand why people encourage learning on the Framon. It seems like it will be offer a better foundation of key cutting. That will lead to less dependence on fancy or expensive tools that may even negatively affect efficiency. Of course, a huge dash of skill and style never hurts, as demonstrated. lol #LockBoss
Awesome battle of two excellent code machines -- That was a really fun video we have all been looking forward to -- I'm "only guessing" that Conner neglected to include some funny "Bloopers". My question is where is the lock to see if Kid Lock's "Racing Cut" keys actually worked? I prefer the 1200 because I am most familiar with that machine. I have no problem cutting ASSA twin keys on my 1200 withing 0.001" as required for ASSA's very tight tolerances; when being a precision #lockboss
When I cut keys on hpc and let's say the cuts are 33442 I would cut it 333 and then plunge the 3rd 3 to a 4 and then follow through with the next 4. I don't back off the dial for each cut.
Really up to the operator what ever seems best for him. Can you cut Medico bi-axle on Blitz? I know both can cut tibbie with additional adapters. Can Blitz cut safe depostit keys? Framon can. Blitz can cut tubular with adapter, can Framon? SFIC on Blitz? Framon can. Am I missing anything else? #lockboss
both great machines the Framon you have to think a bit more or I do as to the 1200 you just dial it in to the spaces and depths one fellow locksmith told me the 1200 is made for dummies like myself that is able to dial it in !! I use the 1200 most the time yet I still have my Framon as well great fun video when watching it the video part was behind the sound lol at least it was for me maybe to many on the net now with my service provider. #lockboss
I like the 1200 better because it takes a card being dyslexic doing the number thing doesn't always work for me but they are both good machines #lockfather
🌵🇨🇦 Framon 2 for the win - wait a second, HPC 1200 Blitz for the win. Sooooo, what are we doing with these extra CH751's 😂😂😂. Great show down. #LockBoss 🇨🇦🌵
I'm all for the stability and accuracy of the Framon 2. I have both machines and the Framon #2 has never let me down. Also the Framon #2 makes straight cuts while the 1200 makes angled cuts. #lockboss 🇺🇸 #clksupplies 🇺🇸
Great video. Although I do not own either machine, where I am employed I use the Framon 2 to cut mogul and paracentric detention keys. That thing is a beast. 20 years and still going strong. #Lockboss
This video definitely helped me decide to purchase the Framon 2 from CLK to add to my #lockboss arsenal - also that sale going on right now! I learned on the 1200, but I'm looking forward to trying something new, hopefully adjusting the machine less often, and not losing/printing/organizing cards...
Great video!!! Kid lock rocks. I have both machines and love them both. Ps did anyone check to see if their keys work? Lol. Thanks again for the great videos. #Lockboss
I would like to add. The value you get when you perches A framon 2. For $1800 you not only get the machine. You also get a $700 codesorse. Where when you perches an HPC, it will cost you roughly $3000 and then you need to pay another $700 for the codesorse . so to me, the Framon2 has a far higher value for you dollars. #LOCKBOSS
The blitz is the best for ease of use. Check the card, check the jaw, cut the key. Much better system imo. #Lockboss
Relly fun battle, good to see the #Lockboss doing a duel comparison together. Cheers
I remember learning the framon and thinking it was super complicated. Eventually I got it tho and it really wasn't as complicated as everyone made it seem lol. #lockboss
I sold my hpc blitz cause having to calibrate after drifting frequently. They should provide calibration kit with all the machines
It’s nice to see these two machines go head to head. They both seem to be very good manual code cutting machines. I think like they said if you spent more time on one vs. the other you could get keys rolling out pretty quick. #LockBoss
The Framon 2 is built to last years and years. Dependability and accuracy that stands alone plus no need for the cards is the reason I choose Framon over the Blitz. #Lockboss
I’ve used both in my opinion the framon 2 is rock solid🤘🏼🤙!!! We didn’t see you guys try the keys to confirm they worked lol! That was fun to watch!🤙🤘🏼#Lockboss
I have both machines and they each serve a purpose. If you want supreme accuracy, the Framon wins. If you want speed and ease of use the 1200 can't be beat. I tend to use the 1200 more often because being accurate to 1/1000th of an inch isn't usually critical for most locks and keys. Both are great machines and I'm not planning to part with either of them. Thanks for another great #Lockboss video!
Good points-PJ
I love my 1200, but that's what I came up on... ALSO I got it from a retiring locksmith shortly after I went out on my own, so mine was made in the 80s (don't know if the quality has gone down since then) and came with a huge selection of jaws, extra cutters (including a few of the carbide cutters) and a HUGE selection of cards, that would have cost me thousands if I'd bought them separately.
Also, I don't do new autos, anything after about 2000 I'm gonna refer the customer. I know there's money there, but industrial, commercial, and residential keep me plenty busy, and my real passion is antiques (thankfully I live where they're plentiful).... Besides, two of the other locksmiths in town that do auto well, do a REALLY good job with it, both in terms of both skill and customer service. That's ALL they do, so I refer auto customers to them, they refer residential, etc, customers to me. The results are happy customers and we all get to do what we specialize in which makes life easier, overhead cheaper, and good business relations with other shops.
I honestly haven't had too much trouble keeping it calibrated. Had it for 8 years now and only had to calibrate it twice... The calibration kit is a must though, because when it goes out it's a PITA to get back to spec without the kit, so it's well worth the money.
As far as accuracy, I've never had a serious problem, but I will say when you're using it, your body posture is IMPORTANT. However you're sitting or standing while using it, you want to do that EVERY TIME, so that you're looking at the indicator and card at the same angle every time. Same thing as an oldschool lathes or milling machines with hand crank dial indicators. I find that's most of the trouble newer users have with it. If you're leaning left or right, you're gonna be off... maybe not always enough to matter, but still off against a set of calipers and eventually it'll be off enough to matter. .
I've had a few chances to play with the Framon 2 and it's CLEARLY a solid machine, but having come up using 1200s I prefer it... I think it's more what you're used to.
Also, I know it's big these days to originate every key by code, but unless it's something with EXTREMELY tight tolerances (SFIC, etc) I don't. I check calibration my duplicators and 1200 weekly, so I'll code cut two, and then just duplicate the rest so speed of code cutting isn't an issue. The only exception is Schlage and Kwikset residential, being the most popular around here I figured the Rytan duel punch machine was a good investment in terms of money and space, and it has been, especially for a locksmith who's mobile / home shop only and doesn't have a storefront.
Good head-to-head. Speed isn't everything. #LockBoss
I now own both of these machines, I like both but I like the calibration on the Framon hands down.
They are both great machines, I own both and they definitely have there place. #LockBoss
Thanks again PJ
So is this called a #LockBoss off, to see who's the real #lockBoss !!!!!
Have a great day
I have only used the 1200 and found it to be great for what I needed it for. I do want to check out the framon eventually though. Thanks for the great video! #lockboss
Once u use it. U won’t look at hpc
Great to see the key machine battles are back! I don’t own a 1200 and I haven’t started using my Framon 2 yet, but I will soon. From the demonstrations I’ve seen, I’m glad I decided on the Framon 2 over the 1200. Thank you PJ, Kid Lock and Javon! #LockBoss
Thanks for the head to head comparison. Both are impressive machines for code cutting. #Lockboss
Interesting comparison. Slower but more accuracy vs speed and ease of use. Nice perspective from experienced locksmiths. #LockBoss
Awesome video, I’ve never worked with a Framon machine mainly the Blitz but I bet you’d never be off with Framon when it comes to depths and spaces👌🏽 #LockBoss
That was a different kind of "switch" blitz 😆
I don't own either machine, I have a different manual code cutter / duplicator. I'm liking the precision of the Framon 2 though.
In my experience with both machines when it comes to the framon 2 it lacks the speed with automotive keys but with commercial keys its good. vice versa on the hpc 1200 #LockBoss
Quickness doesn't necessarily mean your an expert, although, its good to be fast. The quality of work performed and as long as the customer is happy with the product is what matters.
That was fun! Thanks for the video. #lockboss
This was a great comparison, and I like the battle aspect of it. #Lockboss
Would be nice to see if the key actually work inside lock cylinder
What a good idea
That was a fun challenge!!! Very fun guys #Lockboss
Thanks Great Video Presentation
framon 2 is a beast period, I wish I would have gotten the framon after I purchased the 1200. I started to get the framon, but everyone here in the shop uses the blitz so got the blitz. solid machine I like it, but I believe the framon is more accurate and consistent
Very good battle. I think I would have to go with the Framon because of the accuracy. Speed isn't everything and like they said in the video, use long enough and speed will pick up.
#Lockboss
Really curious to try my hand with either of those machines.
#Lockboss
I may want a Framon in my van now🤞.Great video. Both great machines. #lockboss
Say what?-PJ
Great video! I only have the Blitz and like it, although if you’d been selling the Framon when I got mine things might be different. Thanks for sharing, you guys are awesome! #Lockboss
Framon 2 vs hpc. Both good machines. Hpc 1200 would b my pick. Thanks pj and clk. James estep n Tennessee. # lockboss#lockboss
Both machines get the job done. The Framon is definitely more accurate and less prone to getting out of adjustment which is a plus. #Lockboss
Another great one keep it up guys #Lockboss
Oh, this was good! I've been missing out. I need a Ford! #lockboss
#Lockboss Definitely can see where they both are great machines. I love the accuracy with the Framon. Very tight machine, with no backlash at all. Great comparison. 👍
Calibration can be an issue with the blitz especially if it's in a van. I use my framon fra2 all the time as my back up machine.
Great video always love key machine battles# lockboss
Great information, while having fun
Thank you guys @ Clk. #lockboss
Thanks Andy-PJ
That was a fun video to watch, and a lot of great comments below from the #lockboss family. As a newbie, I appreciate all the experience on here! Speed is fine, but accuracy is the biggest factor (learned this the hard way). Because I was never trained on a Framon, I don't have any experience with it, which is why I bought my Blitz 1200. Because I am mobile and specialize in residential work, it works fine for my purposes, and I will have to watch out for the calibration issues you all have mentioned. I wouldn't mind trying a Framon.
Hey, PJ, for a future video. How about a video walking someone through using the micrometer cards on the HPC Blitz for when the actual key blank card doesn't exist or isn't available? I had to figure it out on my own after discovering that I didn't have a card for the TM15 blank.
There’s an aftermarket kit put out by prolok a few years back that will speed up cutting keys on the HPC. I have the kit for sale (used). But I’ll always say the Framon is more accurate and the HPC is usually faster depending on the cuts and the access to the d/s stuff. #lockboss
Love my framon! Waiting for a tutorial on cutting safe deposit keys with it! #Lockboss
Looks like both are great machines. I’m currently using the HPC, but I would like to try the Framon. #lockboss
If you want to find out how well your key machine is calibrated, cut a 10 cut Toyota and see how well it works in the lock. On High Security Code Machines, cut a Honda to see how well it works.
#Lockboss
Great Battle!!
#LockBoss
🐾🐈🐈⬛🐾😷👏👏👏👏👏
I own both Code Machines. I would agree with the guys in the video, you can be rolling along cutting accurate keys and then suddenly your HPC will be off. It’s a great machine, but as long as it’s been around, you’d think they would look at this particular problem and try to resolve it.
With the Framon, you just can’t beat accuracy.
#Lockboss
Awesome video. The Framon is a beast anytime. #Lockboss
Both are good machine. can't go wrong no matter which you choose. #Lockboss
Loved the show PJ.. #LockBoss
Thanks-PJ
Great battle my friend.#Lockboss
Two great machines 👍👍👍#lockboss
I am new to the Locksmith world. Thank you for the Great Video. #LockBoss
You bet and welcome! -PJ
I started out with the 1200 Blitz, but I can see where having the Framon 2 in my shop would be a benefit. Thanks for another great video, PJ! #AccessLockKeyLLC #HaulinBrass #LockBoss
The Framon 2 looks like a very good machine. Framon looks very accurate #Lockboss.
I used an HPC for years and got vary fast on it because it was what the company had. But starting my own business. I'm getting a Framon2. Not only because of the tank like build. But mainly for the value you get with it. You not only get a machine that will out last you in life. But you also get, for $1800, Is a $700 code source, and a $50 set of dial calipers. So you are actually getting the machine for about $1000. With an HPC, also a good machine if taken care of, you pay $3,000 for it and then need to pay another $800 for the code source and dial calipers. And the Framon2 also gives you many other benefits that the HPC simply can't give you. Just an opinion from a man starting up his own business and needs the highest value for the lowest cost. #LOCKBOSS
Thanks Guys, You should compare these machines with two different types of key. The Blitz would win. Remember, you have to change and calibrate the spacer block with different keys. #lockboss
Another one next week!-PJ
I'm really starting to understand why people encourage learning on the Framon. It seems like it will be offer a better foundation of key cutting. That will lead to less dependence on fancy or expensive tools that may even negatively affect efficiency. Of course, a huge dash of skill and style never hurts, as demonstrated. lol #LockBoss
Great video. Thank you! #lockboss
Excellent
Awesome battle of two excellent code machines -- That was a really fun video we have all been looking forward to -- I'm "only guessing" that Conner neglected to include some funny "Bloopers". My question is where is the lock to see if Kid Lock's "Racing Cut" keys actually worked? I prefer the 1200 because I am most familiar with that machine. I have no problem cutting ASSA twin keys on my 1200 withing 0.001" as required for ASSA's very tight tolerances; when being a precision #lockboss
Good question, should have checked-PJ
Every time I hear “Framon” I think about the desert people from Frank Herbert’s “Dune”, called the “Fremen”. #LockBoss
When I cut keys on hpc and let's say the cuts are 33442 I would cut it 333 and then plunge the 3rd 3 to a 4 and then follow through with the next 4. I don't back off the dial for each cut.
Nice!-PJ
Really up to the operator what ever seems best for him. Can you cut Medico bi-axle on Blitz? I know both can cut tibbie with additional adapters. Can Blitz cut safe depostit keys? Framon can. Blitz can cut tubular with adapter, can Framon? SFIC on Blitz? Framon can. Am I missing anything else? #lockboss
I think both machines could be good, depending on the amount of time one uses them. #lockboss
The Framon 2 seems a lot quicker but let's see some more duels just to be sure #Lockboss
Why to go. Great battle. # lockboss
I use the 1200. But still might check into the Framon. #lockboss
Nice head to head. #Lockboss
I'd like to add a Framon 2 to the shop...
#LockBoss
Good race #Lockboss
Nice shootout video#LockBoss
I haven't used a framon yet but it seems like it's my kind of machine. #lockboss
both great machines the Framon you have to think a bit more or I do as to the 1200 you just dial it in to the spaces and depths one fellow locksmith told me the 1200 is made for dummies like myself that is able to dial it in !! I use the 1200 most the time yet I still have my Framon as well great fun video when watching it the video part was behind the sound lol at least it was for me maybe to many on the net now with my service provider. #lockboss
Great video. #LockBoss
Was going to get one of these then I found a Codemax thats a key cutter a Blitz on steroids.
I like the 1200 better because it takes a card being dyslexic doing the number thing doesn't always work for me but they are both good machines #lockfather
Great video #Lockboss
🌵🇨🇦 Framon 2 for the win - wait a second, HPC 1200 Blitz for the win. Sooooo, what are we doing with these extra CH751's 😂😂😂. Great show down. #LockBoss 🇨🇦🌵
Nice comparison...#Lockboss
Awesome video #lockboss
I'm all for the stability and accuracy of the Framon 2. I have both machines and the Framon #2 has never let me down.
Also the Framon #2 makes straight cuts while the 1200 makes angled cuts.
#lockboss 🇺🇸 #clksupplies 🇺🇸
I have the hpc 1200 that I use at work I like it but I haven't used the ather one #lockboss
Good test. #LOCKBOSS
Really need to see if those keys turn the lock. Fast isn't everything to me.
#Lockboss
Right!-PJ
I definitely think the Framon 2 sounds like more of a "me" machine.
#Lockboss
I am thinking about buying one the two. What is the best deal you can give me on a Framon 2? .. #Lockboss!
Email us at sales@clksupplies.com
Great video. Although I do not own either machine, where I am employed I use the Framon 2 to cut mogul and paracentric detention keys. That thing is a beast. 20 years and still going strong. #Lockboss
This video definitely helped me decide to purchase the Framon 2 from CLK to add to my #lockboss arsenal - also that sale going on right now! I learned on the 1200, but I'm looking forward to trying something new, hopefully adjusting the machine less often, and not losing/printing/organizing cards...
1200 all day. #lockboss
Good job guys ... price about the same? #Lockboss 👍
Framon 2 is cheaper!-PJ
I’ll take the blitz #lockboss
Great video!!! Kid lock rocks. I have both machines and love them both. Ps did anyone check to see if their keys work? Lol. Thanks again for the great videos. #Lockboss
Did not... fail on our part-PJ
Framon 2 #lockboss
I would like to add. The value you get when you perches A framon 2. For $1800 you not only get the machine. You also get a $700 codesorse. Where when you perches an HPC, it will cost you roughly $3000 and then you need to pay another $700 for the codesorse . so to me, the Framon2 has a far higher value for you dollars. #LOCKBOSS
So true! Thanks for pointing that out-PJ
I’m sold on the framon 2 !!!I’ve owned both. Thanks for the vid. #LOCKBOSS
#LockBoss
#locboss
Kid lock 🔒 smoked him yikes 😬 #lockboss
They both have their places. I have the two. Now faster isn't always better. What works is better. #lockboss