I think the "Give me your face!" scene works in context, for the original thirteen primes all shared similar masks that showed their status as primes. By removing it prime says that the fallen doesn't deserve the title of a prime. It just doesn't come across clearly in the movie.
That was actually his literal face. That being his mask was a misconception. If it really was a mask then we'd see a protoform face. Or something similar to Optimus's face. But we a skeletal like face. So Optimus literally took off his face
It also rips away the face of the one who started the entire decepticon faction, so I guess you could say It’s almost like ripping away the whole decepticon faction.
This prime is not a broken man he is a broken soilder transformed by war and PTSD. He went from wanting peace and justice to protection and vengeance. This is war, and it shows how character can change in those situations
He never really went for purely vengeance though , he has moments of rage but whoever he kills contributes towards good since they had been in the past and still were upto no good , bad guys can be prioritised over only so much innocent life .
Don't forget that war will change everything about you. Imagine a WW1 soldier going through millennia of fighting. Optimus is not a psycho because he is doing everything he can to survive and live for himself and his team. Besides, he is still diplomatic all through unless a situation calls for it.
After everything Megatron did in the Bayverse, plus the fact that he was basically the one who turned Sentinel over to Decepticons, making him believe they couldn’t win the war, and that cybertron could only be saved with the Decepticons help. He’s probably just angry at Megatron for everything. Megatron was simply throwing out a truce when everything he tried failed, and was basically just backing out and being a pussy. Optimus sensed that, coupled with the rage and blaming him for turning Sentinel to the dark side he just wouldn’t hear it. And the whole “Time to find out” part after that whole rant Megatron went on about how Optimus wouldn’t be anyone without him was Optimus just telling him “bitch you’re nothing to me” he’s no longer his brother or anything like that. Thats why he also told Megatron when he said “We were brothers once” and he replied “Once” to tell him “naw we’re over, you’re way too late to get any sympathy from me.” Also, me as a human I’d be pretty mad if Optimus DIDNT kill Megatron after what happened to Chicago.
Ya, personally speaking I'd compare this to what would be the reasonable consequences for Megatron after the war, the only options would be Banishment or execution. I don't think they would be able to properly banish Megatron, so he'd die either way. The only time Megatron can be 'trusted' is when there is a bigger enemy. And even then usually not, Megatron from "Prime Wars" web series is the only one that was somewhat 'nice' without some reality flip.
I mean, to defend Optimus killing Megatron in DotM, let's not forget that Megatron literally stabbed him in the back in RotF and literally said he was weak. The way I see it, Optimus was simply returning the favor and gave him a taste of his own ruthlessness.
@@thebatmanofneo-gotham5667 my guy optimus already got his payback against megatron in tf2 by blasting half his face off and slicing his arm off. Optimus didn't have to kill megatron if the original ending had them forming a truce. It's like fans (especially bayverse fans) forget megatron isn't always treacherous and if he wants a truce, he's not kidding. We suddenly gonna forget megatron forming truces with optimus in comics or TV shows didn't happen?.
Optimus Prime like many other great soldiers in fiction like Kratos and Snake, is a veteran. A victim of the war machine just as much as casualties or civillians in some ways
I feel like Snake isn't a great comparison for Optimus. Kratos is, because he and Optimus have been alive for an extremely long time. Snake's time was severely limited by design, and his final years were dedicated outright dismantling, and while his body breaks down over time, his mind and resolve were unbreakable. Optimus and Kratos are functionally immortal, and the generations of fighting have taken a serious mental toll on them.
you have to think, prime came to earth trying to protect and have peace with everyone and instantly got targeted as an enemy in the 2nd film. this is also a bot that’s been through centuries of war and was bound to reach his breaking point at some time
Hell, "centuries", and even possibly "millennia" still puts this Optimus as having been through some of the shortest amounts of time an Optimus Prime has been through the ringer, considering many others were at it for literal millions of years. As I once put it to my brother: Bay's Optimus is what happens when you take more of your classic Optimus, put him through more hell than most, and actually allow him to react in a more human way rather than being able to carry near-limitless burden like, say, G1 Optimus is seemingly able to do.
@@SynfangI feel like G1 Optimus carrying such a heavy burden works for him as a paragon hero similar to Superman, and Bayverse Optimus suffering from serious battle scars and trauma works for a version that's meant to be portrayed as human despite being a robot.
Also, he's an alien robot fighting other alien robots that can shapeshift. Being brutal and going for the most damage in the fastest way possible makes tactical sense. Also keep in mind that there is ALWAYS collateral damage from human allies and civilians that are small and fragile. These fights can go by really fast which is somewhat realistic.
@@josesosa3337 yeah I dont mind when the idea is timit colletaral on what happens to the squishies when its basically quick and painless, or when its the result of him just snapping. It's more of a problem when he's just being cruel
I interpret “Give me your face” as him taking The Fallen, and by proxy, the Decepticons power. The Fallen is the first Decepticon, and his face was the inspiration for the Decepticon symbol. And him tearing that symbol down in defense of a planets freedom emboldens his Autobot faith and strikes fear into the decepticons. And Megatron was indeed terrified.
His face being the inspiration for the Decepticon symbol is a bit tenuous in the context of what he looks like, honestly. I'd buy that if they actually used the design where he looks like the Decepticon symbol but I don't buy it when he looks like a bunch of bamboo leaves.
@@mercury2157 fallens original design was going to look like the deception logo but then they changed it into something far worse (for some reason I cannot understand)
@@mercury2157 Search up The Fallen's face. While it's not straight up the Decepticon Insignia, you can see some of the signature designs of it. I believe the Concept Art of the Fallen is even more clear that it's supposed to purposely look like the Decepticon Insignia, which lore wise would make sense since Megatron calls him his Master.
@@tarzantabi7845 I disagree about the final design looking worse. I thought The Fallen had a really cool design in general. The only issue with him is that he never Transformed.
The comparasion between G1 Prime & Bayverse Prime some people on the fandom tend to make is stupid 1. It's a Reinterpretation 2. G1 Optimus Fought against Decepticons that at their worst get drunk & cheat on Baseball, Bayverse Prime fight against Decepticons that Kill innocent people for Fun on a Daily Basis
The comparison between energon prime & Bayverse Prime some people on tfw2005 tend to be so smart 1. Both become depressed after avengers endgaming thier megatron 2. Movie Optimus fights a few guys, but energon Optimus ceases the life force of 1000s of terrorcon warriors in a single year despite the fact only 10 could bend a highly defended planet to its knees.
@@vengefulbale It was an active war zone after all, he gunned down most of the Decepticons in battle. And in Optimus’s own words “You, who show no mercy, now plead for it?”
In my opinion he wasn’t a psychopath but he is a broken person like you said he got betrayed by Megatron and his leader sentinel prime and also the humans fault that attack him and he was in shckk
good vid However, I still find it strange that people forget one fact. This is a story about a war between two ALIEN factions. They may have a different idea of morality, they have their own code of honor. This idea can and even should differ from the wet fantasies of those infantile people who call Bayverse Prime a psycho. Autobots and Decepticons can tear and shoot each other, they existed in other conditions and waged these wars for who knows how many centuries.
Agree, though I wouldn’t call anyone who believes Bayverse Optimus to be a psycho “infantile”, they’re just not seeing the full picture of what his character has truly been through behind all the explosions and brutality. Speaking of which, I see the brutality of Optimus’ kills brought up as a common point by ppl who think he’s a deranged killer. People tend to offer the POV of “imagine they were human, this would be so much more brutal!” Well, that’s the thing. They’re not human, they’re aliens. Their physiology is completely different to ours. A sword through the chest, yeah that will kill any one of us, no matter how tough we can get. A Cybertronian though? Unless you hit their spark, they can shrug that shit off and still kick ass. That’s why Optimus has to “rip and tear” to make sure these Decepticons stay dead. What looks overly brutal to us is basically necessary methods of killing to them. Hell, the humans in the films implore the same amount of brutality, just smaller scale and with firearms, yet they’re not the ones placed under the same microscope? TL;DR Cybertronians be literally built different, harder to kill than us humans. What we consider brutal methods of killing is simply the efficient norm they have to use.
@@zexalcommander7036Damn that's a good point, before I said that the only argument in favor of Optimus being a psycho is that he does Fatalitys to the Decepticons but I forgot how super resilient the Transformers are.
@@zexalcommander7036 There is no true character for this Optimus prime. Other Optimus prime’s you have a point. No where in the bayverse that a single moment is given to ask if prime is ok or if he questions what he’s doing. The morality of these two factions is very similar to human morality.
Optimus is not stupid to let Megatron live. A few seconds before, he LITERALLY said "This is my planet!" while he destroyed Sentinel. Megatron knew the battle was lost. Soundwave was death, Starscream was death, Shockwave was death, his army defeated. He was literally surrounded by autobots and human soldiers plus he saw that the humans now were able to use predator missiles inside the city. He knew he was going to die. He played the surrender card but Optimus called his bluff.
@@Mr.Spade1 those are definitely not the best movies in the franchise and even then they can have Megatron be a good guy and change the story to have the quintessence be the main villains and they could have their own powerful minions and army to be dangerous. Or instead of Megatron being on Earth as an ally he can instead show up at the last moment with his remaining Decepticon henchmen to fight and help the Autobots in the process winning the battle they can have a cool scene were the Decepticons slowly come out of the vehicle killing a bunch of the enemy forces catching them off guard and then Megatron and Optimus team up against the main villain and even have Megatron or Optimus Prime sacrifice themselves to save Cybertron and Earth.
To all G1 crackheads out there: 1. This is a different continuity of Transformers. 2. Optimus had been through a living Hell. Bee's voice box was damaged, Jazz was ripped in half and in the novel Megs ate his Spark, Megs was resurrected and stabbed Optimus in the back, and shot his Spark into oblivion, while Megs called him weak, Fallen betrayed the Primes, so Optimus had every right to tear that guys face off, he brought Sentinel back from the Moon and revived him, only for him to betray them all and back-shoot Ironhide and leave him to rust into dust, Que was literally executed, the Autobots were exiled to other parts of the Solar System before Que's death, Ratchet was violently torn apart, while begging for mercy, and Lockdown ripped his Spark out of his chassis having refused to give up Primes location, the Wreckers, Sideswipe, and Dino were hunted down too, Cade, Tessa, Shane, and the rat (Lucas) were in danger, and Lockdown turned the rat into a charred skeleton, KSI accidentally revived Megatron and were responsible for the destruction of Hong Kong, Attinger and Cemetary Wind were closing in on them, he was mind controlled by Quintessa in the Last Knight, and nearly killed Bee. I fucking dare you to tell me you wouldn't snap after that
Exactly imagine watching your friends die one by one in a never ending war for centuries, being betrayed by your only trusted mentor and the humans you swore to protect, seeing your friends being hunted down and melted in front of you. no sane person would be able to endure something like that, you will break eventually.
Got me wondering if he does have witness things similar to this before he even get to earth in the first movie, and if he does. He probably have just gone through a fresh character arc and decided to be a noble pacifist in the first movie. Until the following movies happened which now makes him loses his shit once again
I disagree. When pacifist can turn non-pacifist, they have a bias. So, this Optimus probably didn't think his actions through. Actual pacifist will reflect at their anger/mistakes as soon as they can
He tends to overindulge and I think that does speak to how the war might have changed him for the worst. But then maybe its also a byproduct of their species being so damn durable and hard to kill. Which is an interpretation I like that both old IDW and new Image comics TF has tackled, that they are metal shelled giants fighting in worlds so easily bruised, even the early scene of Prime in Image Comics was him accidentally crushing a deer and reflecting that even the ground beneath them shakes and deforms unlike Cybertron. Its fantastic stuff.
Fans when villain kills the hero: "HURR HURR! Character development!!" Fans when hero kills bad guy: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! HOW COULD YOU BETRAY US LIKE THAT?!?!?!?!?!??!"
@@Justsomeguy-v2d decepticons would show no mercy,guess what happened to decepticons that were trapped..yep they come back and caused death none defacted
Finally glad someone else understoods that he's not psychotic, but just a war traumatised, battle hardened warrior whose witnessed countless deaths and brutal scenes over his whole life as a soldier, and how it affected him in such a way. Among other things of cause. Also if he were a true psychopath, none of his allies would be left alive as he would of probably killed them, similar to Joker in a way.
The fallen also destroyed other planets before being banished/exiled and his ass was going to do it again after destroying the earth if he succeeded and what’s interesting about optimus not killing megatron in the novel compared to the movie is how megatron went about offering the truce,in the novel it was more sincere and selfless vs the movie were he comes off selfish and back to being ego driven. And one thing I like about prime is that even tho he has trust issues he doesn’t use that as a excuse to be a complete asshole like other characters from fiction
i agree (most of) prime's kills are justified it's just the way he does it is unjustified he pointlessly mutilates his oponents just to make them suffer instead of quickly and peacefully killing them
@@jonathandelgado3755the primes don’t destroy planets. They destroy suns and turn them to energon. They normally destroy stars with no living creatures, so the fallen didn’t try to destroy the planet (technically) he did try to destroy a star with animals in its star system.
@@iminyourwallscall911The brutality never bothered me I only had a problem with lockdowns death because it just felt unnecessary and extra for the writers to have prime slice him in half but that’s it.
@@jonathandelgado3755 the tie in stuff reveals that he destroyed other planets before earth, the primes found out about his actions before he could do the same thing to our planet
I always thought Megatron was talking to Optimus when saying “we need a truce”, and Optimus did not trust the guy enough to accept that truce. But eventually I realized…Megatron was talking to SENTINEL. He’s the one Megatron is looking at when he’s talking about a truce, and it’s not until he says “who would you be without me” that he faces Optimus. So it wasn’t that Optimus had trust issues with Megatron, Megatron was still intending to be at war with the Autobots and humanity, he just had to assert his strength and demand he be put back at the top above Sentinel
Why would Megatron want to make a truce with Sentinel Prime again Sentinel Prime would just betray Megatron and kill him in the original ending they do make a peace treaty and go their separate ways.
@@Automaton237 I am unfamiliar with what the film was going to be beforehand, but as for the final product, I highly doubt Megatron would break away from the plan and make peace with Optimus then and there, especially as by this point, Cybertron was halfway through the portal and into Earth’s orbit. It wasn’t until Carly made Megatron realize that he was beneath Sentinel and needed to assert his dominance over him, make it known that “Megatron is commanded by no one.” Plus, I also doubt the very leader of the Decepticons would somehow give Sentinel much of a chance to betray and kill him, especially after the beating he had just given him. And as for “all I want is to be back in charge”, it makes more sense if he’s talking to Sentinel, as he is the one that Megatron (to an extent) relinquished command of operations to in the deal they made.
I’ve always had a problem with the thought he should of spared megatron especially since megatron ordered the destruction of the xanthium only wanting a true after realizing that sentinel was taking charge so Optimus after dealing with megatron and his bs for Billions of years killed him
Facts the Saving grace for the novel ending is that megatron was more sincere and selfless but I prefer the movie ending I just wish megatrons betrayel of sentinal and dooming his own plan was better executed
Not to mention it's Megatron you can't trust him if Optimus let him go that's letting a threat remain to be able to kill and innocent human he wants and he hates humanity so why let him go and continue to risk innocent lives naw eliminate the threat and be done with it
@johnnotrealname8168 no it was actually the right call as many lives are safe and the threat is gone you may argue it's immoral I highly disagree not only is it justified defense as Megatron was gonna shoot him in that moment it was also what saved billions around the world especially as they leveled Chicago no Optimus was right through and through
@@elishawilson5342 You are not allowed to kill a combatant who is not attacking you. From what I gathered he was on Optimus Prime's side and indeed defended him. Summary execution is not acceptable anymore.
The Bayverse Optimus Prime never was a librarian, archivist, a space bridge repair crew-member or dock worker. He was a soldier, a Knight. That is how the Allspark created him. This is actually somewhat close to a depiction of Optimus in the comics where he’s a Police Officer before becoming a Prime.
He was actually in charge of the science division on Cybertron with no knowledge of his past as a prime until Sentinel found him. Wasn't till before the war started the Optimus learned of his connections to the Dynasty of Primes. Him being a knight though that just came out of nowhere and didn't make any sense whatsoever.
@@thespiritofjonathanjoestar6805 not that I could find. He probably was Orion Pax but I've read the stories many times, seems like Optimus was indeed connected to the original Primes he had one of the Prime symbols on his head, but he's never referred as Orion Pax, just Optimus.
It's a bit hypocritical in my opinion The Decepticons and other villains mercilessly killing millions of innocent people without even caring,Nobody says anything Plus Optimus giving the same treatment they did to the innocent and even defending his own friends, that's a problem
Plus he died when he was protecting sam, in his dying breath he thought he doomed earth and humanity and after he was revived and saw the star harvester activating he pulled the gloves out.
For the Transformers 3 Megatron situation, the original ending for the film was going to be the same as the books, but Amazon fucked up and accidentally leaked the original ending in the novelization of the book in their page preview thing on their site. So the ending was changed to the one we got in the final film, that's why it feels so out of place considering what you said throughout the film with Megatron being tired of fighting and just wanting to go home.
Or It’s either way Hasbro forcing bay and movie workers to change the ending, because they noticed the leak. I’m not pretty sure if movie production do care about the leaks and stuff.
This is so true to what Optimus is really going through, the people who say that Optimus Prime is a psycho they don't even pay attention to these movies, the movies really show how much pain Optimus feels when his friends are killed off by the Decepticons , that shows how much of a true Leader he is.
A battle crazed soldier can still be a bit psychopathic though, I feel like that is part of the tragedy but its not exactly an ideal version of Optimus Prime who is characterized as a fatherly figure too.
That was a pleasantly respectful insight to Optimus Prime. My father is a military vet, served for over thirty years and I recognized what he went through in Bay's Optimus. Thank you for offering a compassionate view towards the actions and struggles veterans have to go through during war and when they, hopefully, come home.
realest video regarding the live action films. bay prime is not a psychopath and is one of the best takes on the character. i think people look past that because they see these movies at face value which is fair bc they're dumb action movies at the end of the day. but when you really decide to pay attention you realize that all of these fuckers deserved it lmao. and the explanation for prime's attitude towards humanity in AOE is literally thrown at the viewers face
I think people also ignore how kind and respectful Optimus is to the humans throughout the films. Even in AOE when the humans almost murdered him, and murder his friends, he at worst only: A) lectured the human that is responsible for melting his friend while said human called him a piece of technology. Said human was also ftrainkinstining a bunch of robot corpses to hunt down Optimus. B) He killed one human, that human being the one who is responsible for the death of his friends. Oh and maybe he killed a goon or 2 that was part of the human faction that tried to kill him and his friends, said goons were about to murder a family of 2. C)he hit one human with his gun out of a PTSD panic, which isn’t good, but again Optimus just came back to live after being hunted by humans.
Facts optimus was the real deal he fought for what’s right he didn’t care about status like megatron and he doesn’t care about being superior to others like sentinel and even after all the backstabbing while he definitely has trust issues he didn’t let it turn him into a total asshole like other characters. Bayverse prime is my favorite incarnation
Yes......the truth is that I always felt tender about the way Optimus acted with humans, whether they were civilians or friends 💖. He treated them with great care and affection, as if they could break if you didn't take good care of them. And it made me so angry and helpless when they betrayed them, since it was obvious that Optimus was hurt and disappointed at having to suffer more betrayals 😾
A simple way to say hes not a psycho os to just say, "hes an old bot whos been in a war with his brother for centuries which would just knock the unspoken rules of war out the window because of how long its been going, and constant betrayal thats probably happen before a few times on cybertron aswell, and the death of his home world". That would make anyone do that kind of stuff
Optimus also probably kills the decepticons because if cybertron had a justice system, it’s probably no longer in use because of the war. So nothing else would stop the decepticons besides death. Also my headcanon is after prime is revived, the experience of death changed him and made him more aggressive
Agreed. Bayverse/Tyran OP is a man that pretty much through absolute hell. Best way I can describe it is that he's pretty much like the Doom Slayer except Bayverse/Tyran Prime still has some support from what little Autobots he has left and whatever humans that can get over their fears of a giant war veteran robot whereas the Doom Slayer (prior to the games) pretty much lost everything and had to fight his war alone. And, just like Doomguy, OP (in a lot of versions, but Bayverse/Tyran especially) has been fighting for thousands if not millions of years. So, "Being tired of fighting Decepticons" might be the biggest understatement in Transformers history. He and Megatron have more or less been sending their fellow brothers and sisters in arms through the meatgrinder for eons and OP is very much tired of what is pretty much an endless war. As for the "Give me your face" line, some people already pointed it out but I also agree with them. The Fallen/Megatronus pretty much wore the mask of his position within the Primes and Optimus found him unworthy to be called a Prime given what he tried to do. If anything, Bayverse/Tyran Optimus is best describe as a man constantly pushed to his limits and given little to no time to actually rest. That kind of pressure tends to make a lot of people break and cross boundaries, Optimus being no exception. Overall, great video.
Sentinel betrayed and murdered his own people, ordered the slaughter of an entire city, was planning to subjugate all of humanity, and would have killed Optimus if Megatron hadn't intervened at the last second. And people have the gall to act like Optimus is somehow in the wrong...
Personally, I agree that Optimus Prime is not a psycho in these movies. While I don't agree with him killing Megatron in DOTM, I still think he's just a broken man who's a victim of war. Besides ilke you said I think with a few improvements here and there, Optimus could've been more compelling and empathetic to the audience. In fact, the version of Optimus that I think shows what Bayverse Optimus should've been is in Transformers: Prime. In this show, Optimus is very similar to his movie self but is more empathetic and compelling and we understand why he fights the way he does and has a subtle story arc in the series where he learns to do whatever it takes to end a war. Overall, I really enjoyed Movie Optimus Prime, and I personally think he is not a psycho, just a victim of a long long war.
@@kobi7955 I don't agree with Optimus killing Megatron because Megatron offered a truce and saved Optimus' life. Furthermore, killing Megatron goes against everything Optimus Prime is about, especially since he wasn't trying to kill him.
@@SgtAJ218 Megatron started a revolt that led to a centuries long war that destroyed Cybertron and killed countless friends and allies of Optimus, hell Optimus has outlived entire generations of Autobots who gave their lives to fight for him. I don't think he'd want a truce with an enemy that destroyed their entire home and culture and forced their race to know nothing but war and death.
@@kobi7955Ong bro I don't get these people. Like oh yes we should definitely trust the psycho robot that has killed millions of people mercilessly and is also the leader of a group that has mf DECEPTION IN ITS NAME 💀💀💀. Optimus is 100% justified
No no everyone gets this all wrong megatron didnt want a truce with optimus he wanted a truce with sentinel he holded sentinel while looking at him and then said all i want is to be back in charge and then looked at prime
Just one reason is insanely more than enough and that is: He was in war for 9 million years. Sissies won't get this obviously but we don't need to justify ANYTHING to them. Only a few years can make a person go mad, imagine 9 million years. Optimus's personality is commendable.
Even in TF Prime and WFC and FOC games Prime is ruthless when needed and when pushed to the extreme. He is a just leader and an advocate for peace, but if peace is threatened by unrational enemies and no other alternative is available he will rip out your spine
Thank you for this video seriously. I was getting tired of some of these other youtubers saying that optimus was a psycho and a murderer as if a lot of the ones he killed didn't have it coming to them
Definitely agree, Bayverse Optimus definitely saw so much horrendous shit throughout the films to the point that it's a miracle that he hasn't snapped already from the sheer amount of trauma he's accumulated over the years he's spent fighting against the Decepticons.
There really was so much potential with this franchise. If the cgi wasn't so taxing (time wise and money wise) And they got top tier writers It could have been great.
The cgi wasn’t the problem for the transformers screen time it was the scripts and all of the scenes not being added in the movies because after reading the dotm novel there was definitely way more transformer screen time originally intended
These videos always interest me Thank you so much for making this video As for my opinion I think Optimus prime in these movies are absolutely justified Every single one of them As for Megatron’s decapitation scene, I think Optimus just wanted to end the war, not taking any chances. And Megatron himself I think could’ve worded his truce better like: “now we need a truce, I am tired of this, all of this Optimus, even an endless war must end sometime, and thus I shall devote myself and the remaining decepticons to rebuild cybertron, and leave Earth alone. It’s over prime, all of this is over.” And I thought prime turning into Nemesis Prime was actually logical since by that point he has lost almost everything and everyone, except for his home planet which he still has a chance to save. And seeing as how humans have betrayed him, it’s actually somewhat justified from Optimus’ view. I think Prime can even just not get brainwashed and still do those things in Tlk because he has enough reason to do so.
okay what about demolishor in the video he says optimus kills demolishor because he is sick of decepticons but that is not an excuse to ruthlessly murder him also demolishor was not a complete monster he only killed people because he was running for his life he had no other option if you had to step on a bunch of mice just to survive would you?
also i still think optimus is a psychopath because while yes the deaths of grindor,the fallen and megatron are excusable since they were in battle the way he kills them is petty, cruel and sadistic he tears grindor's head in half with hooks, then rips off the fallen's face and tears his heart out of his chest with his bare hands and he decapitates megatron even though it's pointless since the head is not as vital as the spark also he killed megatron even when megatron surendered that is a literal war crime
Tbh I don't think it was quite ever called into question whether Optimus's kills were *justified*, he's a leader in a war. He has to make hard decisions, he can't coast through the war without getting blood- er, Energon, on his hands. The Idea really is that, As the series continued, Prime's methodology becomes more brutal, and his Sanity begins to slip. He's beaten, killed, betrayed, shunned, and broken. Even the best of leaders might very well break under these conditions. It's fascinating. An issue people tend to have with this, however, is that this isn't how Optimus Prime is traditionally depicted. Usually, Prime is an unwavering hero, Kind and Gentle to his allies, and still merciful to his foes. A Paragon of virtue, justice, and all that is "good". But Bay's Prime, as flawed as the movies are, take a somewhat more realistic approach to Prime's character. He tries his hardest to do the right thing, to be the good Leader he should be, but he *has* to kill Decepticons if he wants to save the innocent. After millions of years of conflict, He's grown tired. He's an old soldier, an old man, fighting a battle that should have ended lifetimes ago when the planet was effectively destroyed. But the battles won't end. Even death won't keep him out of the fight, apparently. And the inhabitants of his new home have decided he doesn't belong, and have betrayed him. He's tired, bitter, regretful. He still tries to be the good guy, but he's just so full of anger and regret, it's hard to be the merciful, gentle hero he once was.
This is true, but my problem is not the fact that he kills, oh no, he is absolutely justified in killing the Decepticons, evil is evil, my problem is THE WAY he kills them. The best example of an Optimus that does kill and isn't insanely brutal about it is Transformers: Prime Optimus Prime. That Optimus did kill Deceptcons, but when he did it, it felt like he was doing it to survive and to get it over with rather than dwelling on it by being overly brutal or because his morals are "corrupted". He still retained his morals and killed in a swift and precise manner like the other Autobots in TFP. As one comment stated, maybe if the Bayverse had better writing, people wouldn't be as bitter about Prime killing Decepticons, even though they would probably still be bitter about him going a little too overboard and unnecessary (I'm no exception to this). Now, about prime being "Realistic" because he gets corrupted is kinda BS because yes, in a war, you have to kill to survive, but you can be swift, quick, and efficient with your kills while still retaining your hope and humanity. This is what Optimus is supposed to be, a war veteran that kills to survive, but does it quickly and effectively, and still values the life of others that he cares about and who he strives to protect, and in some scenarios, tries to reason with his enemies at first, and when he's left with no choice, he ends up killing them, but Never in a Mortal Kombat fashion. And to that argument of saying that war can corrupt ideals, Optimus is the antithesis to that. People can still keep their morals and ideals, even if they have no other choice but to kill. They do it not because they want to be a psycho but because they're trying to survive and fight for a good cause. Maybe if they had a scene in the bayverse (maybe in Dotm) where he realizes he started to go down a brutal and psychotic path, and then he brings himself back to being hopeful and changes himself for the better, and goes back to killing quickly and swiftly like how he does in TF1 and TFP ofc ( even though TFP came after the bayverse but still). But IDk, that's just me, maybe I'm wrong or maybe I'm not, at the end of the day, this is just my opinion.
In my opinion, you are wrong on the fact that lockdown was going to kill Optimus. He said earlier that he wanted to take him to his creators, so Optimus killed him to protect Cade and other humans. Also doesn’t it sound wierd that Optimus says “honor to the end” after killing lockdown from behind?
Bayverse Optimus Gets Way More Pain & Deaths Then Any Other Optimus... For example:- Transformers Prime Optimus prime lost Cliff Jumper only... While Bayverse Optimus Lost 3/4 Members of his Main Team...
You're forgetting the entirety of War and Fall of Cybertron also feature Prime Optimus, technically. He came to a room where Starscream was on a killing spree, and his only words when he got there was "I couldn't save them..."
@@burnttoast.2017 Cybertron stories don't count... Everyone is at full on war on Cybertron... No mercy is given no matter what... On Earth it counts more
It's implied that Prime had lost a lot of his friends in the prime continuity. Not saying Bay prime didn't as well, but in truth, almost every version of prime has lost a mass amount of their allies.
One thing regarding Prime as a victim of war is he's not a newface who's just being introduced to the horrors of it. He already watched his own home planet become an uninhabitable husk, and now he and his few remaining friends are the only ones who can protect this new one they've found. Every human death at the hands of a Decepticon is one that, to him, he is ultimately responsible for failing to protect, and every Autobot death is another comrade lost trying to keep this new home from becoming just like his last. Add to that how the various human organisations actively antagonise and later start hunting them, and it's not at all hard to see how this would break even the strongest of men to become ruthless, jaded and untrusting.
My head cannon says the Matrix isn't what we thought it was. It looks like Unicron's horns in the last knight and it brought him back Pet Cemetary style :)
Megatron isn’t a sympathetic antagonist that could be redeemed. Megatron, is a purely evil character. Maybe in the context of Transformers One, Megatron is sympathetic. But Bayverse Megatron is cold hearted, ruthless, unapologetically sinister. Optimus was right to kill him. Cause he would’ve just continued committing genocide against humans.
Thanks for this video. I'm so sick of people who don't know what a war crime is make video essays about Optimus committing war crimes. As if the Deceptions have been anything but menaces the whole series. And as of Humanity isn't completely fucked without autobot help.
I know I'm late to this but this video reminded me of another video explaining primes anger and animosity towards his, enemy his death and the last words he heard at the end of the forest fight might have impacted him to where he decided "enough was enough". So in my opinion Optimus took those words to heart and decided not to hold back anymore.
Bayverse Optimus Prime is not the same “idealistic champion of all that is good” that G1 and other counterparts of him are and that’s okay. It makes sense for a live action franchise where things are more grounded. Yeah, yeah the lore gets expanded and crazier as we go on, but the movies are still fairly grounded in a realistic setting. Bayverse Prime is not a Psycho, nor does he progressively become one. He’s a grizzled war veteran and leader that has endured so much, yet still clings onto noble principles: “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.” Even in the face of such adversity of losing allies, dying, and being betrayed by people you swore to protect. Funny how despite all the criticisms of just how many “warcrimes” he’s committed, he never did break that mantra of his. Never once did he become the oppressor. Not even when brainwashed. He was threatening, oh yes. But never once did he strip an *innocent* sentient being’s freedom. “But what about those surrendering Decepticons-?” Did we watch the same films? Name one scene where a Decepticon straight up goes “I surrender! Please don’t kill me!” Not a single instance. The Decepticons hiding that NEST hunted? Yeah they’re just biding their time to revive Megatron and start their shenanigans again. Just because they start hiding doesn’t absolve them of all wrong they have committed or will commit.
I'm glad someone finally talks about this topic without falling into the cliché "The OG Prime's not like this, this is NOT a real Prime!!", and take this into a deeper perspective. Though I really get why he killed off Megatron in DOTM, at this point, nobody in their sane mind would accept a "peace treat" with the dude that literally killed you, stabbing at your back. Don't forget all the things he has done on the course of the movie franchise
The "give me your face" line also had another meaning, ALL primes have something similar as the mark of one being a prime. He tore it off, essentially saying "you don't deserve it" to the fallen.
Honestly, i feel like the actual reason his fights are brutal is because with robots you can get away with all the crazy stuff like ripping off arms and slicing open heads. No actual gore and blood so why not. Cause imagine all these executions with human characters, it would literally be mortal Kombat. I know thats not the main focus of the vid, but it was on my mind. Great vid.
It's just hypocrisy that people are saying ROTB Optimus Prime is justified in killing Scourge Mortal Kombat style because he killed Bumblebee? And it's funny considering the fact that Bumblebee was resurrected later in the movie lol Bayverse Optimus Prime also had plenty of reasons to be violent Lost Jazz Had to sacrifice his brother to save Earth Was pressured to leave Earth Got killed by Megatron Lost Jolt, Arcee and Chromia Lost the person he loved the most, Elita-1 (left on bad terms with each other as well) Was lied to by the humans Was betrayed by Sentinel Prime Forced into leaving Earth Lost Ironhide, The Twins and Que Unwillingly killed his former leader and teacher Betrayed by the humans, losing more Autobots in the process Lost one of his oldest friends, Ratchet Joshua Joyce told that he wasn't needed to defend Earth anymore Captured by Lockdown and was told his creators wanted him back Quintessa told that he caused Cybertron destruction Quintessa brainwashed him, turning him into Nemesis Prime Quintessa told that the planet he was defending was actually Unicron Sure, he's done some violent things, but calling him "psycho-murderer" is a big stretch too far. The Bayverse Decepticons genuinely look like death machines and have negatively impacted both physically and mentally. Not a coincidence either that some of the brutal kills he's been involved in are regarded as some of the best scenes in the movies, even the franchise. And it's a new take on the character, and I like the idea of Optimus fuelled with rage by the war.
Ive never understood the "hes a psycho" stance. He takes care of his allies, he didnt even let the Autobots go after Bumblebee in the first movie knowing the humans were going to experiment on him because of how fragile the humans are. He never purposely puts any human or autobot in danger and will put himself at risk to help them. His fighting style against decepticons is brutal yes, but only because he has to make sure theyre stopped for good. The decepticons in bayverse are actual psychos, they were willing to cut open Sam's head sithout anesthesia or anything for the pain, he would have suffered an agonizing death if the Autobots hadnt intervened. They tore apart one of their own for parts to revive megatron, they treat humans like bugs, casually killing them just because they get in the way. They're irredeemable and Optimus knows this, thats why he fights to kill rather than subdue He only fights humans in 4 because of them mercilessly hunting down his fellow autobots, desecrating their corpses to use them as research, his trust has been broken. Ratchet didn't even fight back until they had mulitiple attenpts to kill him, they executed him through Lockdown. Everything is so much more brutal in bayverse compared to something like G1, so its always made sense to me that Optimus is more like a hardened soldier. To give these psychos mercy is basically allowing them to kill a bunch more innocent people and tear his allies apart once they regroup. Its good that he fights the way he does, because he needs to
From what I've heard, the original scene was gonna have Megatron and Prime team up to fight a longer battle and then go their ways, but it was replaced by a rather fast paced moment of Megatron jumping and Optimus cleaning up.
Movie optimus was justified in their action both bayverse and rotb. Bayverse con literally commits genocide on earth, collateral damage and killing innocent and destroying earth and rotb is justified killing the devil's henchmen. Both wants to save their soldier. But people justify rotb optimus anger as saying he lost bee but bay's optimus lost as same if not more, he lost his friends ratchet, ironhide, jazz, his girlfriend elita and many other autobots by the hands of shockwave. Homie got betrayed by his brother Megatron, his mentor sentinel and importantly by humanity and he still save them. I just hope they focused on his anger in the film and the conflict on his mind like Neroidius said, overall both bay and rotb prime needs therapy.
Also people forget that how bay treat his human allies he treat them with respect and doesn't belittle them he was angry when the hid a secret about the ark in the moon and when they were being hunted. Also people say that optimus saying you die to shockwave is bloodthirsty, bruh this is shockwave a guy who in all continuities is a threat and not only that but shockwave in the prequel comic literally killed autobots refugee including jolt and elita one and he was responsible for destroying parts of Chicago with his driller. Plus these are not the cons from g1(show not comics) since they usually are the Saturday morning villains(until the movie) unlike the bay cons whose attempt almost destroyed earth. Plus prison was not made until dotm but only one jail for average cybertronian but it was destroyed by shockwave and in tlk the prison for con were fully made.
I think Prime was so traumatized by Sentinel's betrayal, he felt 100% sure Megatron was going to betray him. Especially with how many humans and his own died because of him. *Prime didn't want to take a chance.* Even with his reasonable nature.
I agree and I always found it strange that people think he’s a psycho. His anger towards the deceptions is justified and it makes him a more potent threat in battle. I think that the way he acts is a lot more realistic than the slapstick fighting of g1, including the movie. (No hate I love and grew up on g1)
What sucks is that Megatron's truce WOULD'VE happened had the novel not been spoiled because of Amazon's shitty book preview feature. Fuck you Amazon for that one! Bayverse Prime is a broken war-torn bot, who would coincidentally get along with UT Prime who fucking loved combat (even if he never admits it).
Finally someone who understands what he went through!! Everybody keeps saying he's a socio without realizing that ITS WAR that has been going on for hundreds of years.
G1 Prime had been fighting Megatron and the Decepticons for possibly millions of years, yet always remained the strong yet gentle and compassionate leader
@@badger_shorts7708 'G1 Prime had been fighting Megatron and the Decepticons for possibly millions of years, yet always remained the strong yet gentle and compassionate leader''' ahhh yeah G1 the goffy decetions that felt more like childrens.... ha....
@@badger_shorts7708 You seriously compare G1 Prime to Bayverse Prime. Thats another one part of the problem. People continue to compare Bayverse Prime to G1 Prime as if they should be THE EXACT SAME and ignoring that this is a completely different universe with a different take on Optimus. Not every Optimus Prime in the Transformers franchise has too be the same.
When Marky-Mark first wakes Optimus, you can hear him yell ‘Sam’ through the static. I’m almost certain Prime’s last memory before going into hiding was seeing Lockdown kill Sam Witwicky.
Great video and absolutely agree with you! Glad to hear people defending just about anything in these movies I love. Though one thing, I have a STRONG doubt Megatron was actually asking for a truce... Remember Optimus knew him much longer than we did and canonically he was a corrupt politician on cybertron who basically started the war...
My take on this was that Optimus was so brutal when dealing with Decepticons, simply due to the fact that the Decepticons have a God complex, they look down on Autobots and other life forms as if they all are mere mindless bugs that need to be eradicated.
Ngl most of the cases of him killing boil down to, “they’re literally out of they’re minds if I don’t end them they will kill me and then everyone else.
As a small fun fact in both of the spanish dubs for Revenge of the Fallen, the latin-america and the Spain versions (they're different from each other), when Optimus is about to finish off The Fallen he says: - Latin-america: "encarame ahora" (this can be translated back to english to something like "face me off" or "fight me"; obviously then pun in the dub is going more to the "face me off" because of the word ) - Spain: "nunca das la cara" (this is literally just "you never show your face"). So, in the spanish community the "give me your face" line does not exist at all in that sense; I like how you, in your video, and the people that commented in this video gave some other interpretations for this line, but personally because of my own personal experience with the dubs version I like to take Optimus quote as of him referring to The Fallen as a coward of some sort. You know even if all the events in the movie are consequences of The Fallen actions and orders, he is mostly waiting in the shadows while his henchmen do the job he gave them. I'm not ranting on The Fallen, he's my personal favorite villain from the movies, but he being somewhat portrayed as a coward in the sense of giving orders and not going to face off his enemies is interesting.
I always thought about it like this: Bonecrusher was killing civilians and Optimus, while not entirely on the ropes, would've lost if he let him live. Both Grindor and Demolishor would've returned to the rest of the Decepticons and killed more after their initial rampages. The Fallen was, obviously, hellbent on harvesting the Milky Way's sun. The face taking thing is probably more symbolic than anything. Shockwave (as revealed in the IDW comics) killed Elita-One, and had also aided in the invasion of Chicago. Megatron and Sentinel were the two who got the closest to taking over the Earth and I believe by now Optimus had little sympathy or patience for either. Lockdown was threatening one of Optimus' only allies at that point. It was either he act or Cade died.
I cannot agree with statement about Demolisher situation. The Decepticon caused destruction simply because he was straight up running for his life. He and Sideways not doing anything at that point just running. Wounding Demolisher would have been enough, but Optimus chose to freaking execute the decepticon.
Demolisher is far too big and dangerous to keep him alive. his size can alone cause destruction. Optimus needed to kill him in order to prevent further destruction
He's like a crusader knight. You think we are brutal now? Imagine back then when Melee weapons were the norm. Not ranged. And still, even then, we are always trying to hold out for the dream to be more than our struggles.
3:40 I imagine this scene was probably written when The Fallen (aka Megatronus prime) still had his decepticon symbol head, which makes the action a lot more sensical. If they had kept that (objectively better) design it would’ve been a much more powerful moment imo.
Optimus character in bayverse wasn't that far off at all, all of his actions are literally done in defence of humans and life in general, he doesn't kill decepticons because he likes it, but because they are so unjustifiably evil you have no other options. They enjoy evaporating people and exploding stuff and don't give a shit at all, you can't reason with them. And the actual reason why he kills them so brutally is because it looks cool. I don't think it is that deep here. Even then, why not? They are robots, they often tank lethal looking stabs through whole body and shit, you only can kill them by ripping them apart.
I know that Bayverse Optimus Prime is not a psychopath or cold killer but his killing made him look like that. But for Demolisher, Optimus asks him if there's anything he wants to say, and he replies to Optimus "The Fallen shall rise again." that's Demolisher's last words. and for Age of Extinction, in my opinion, Optimus Prime is confused and angry at the same time when humans backstabbed him about the cause of the destruction of Chicago, the events that happened in Revenge of the Fallen, and the Decepticons' invasion.
bayverse optimum pride is just a realistic version of him. You just cant let go a murdereous psycho just because he wants "truce" when he already started a civil war, personally killed hundreds of your friends (while refusing to take POWs) and then killed thousands of humans you swore to protect. Its not a cartoon where no human dies and they go back to their corners for the next round (episode). Ripping Megatron's head off was perfectly justified (and it was cool!!) also he was never a pacifist and also demolisher, just like megatron, was too dangereous to be left alive
To me its just brutality ≠ psychopathy he is a savage fighter because the deceptions are already going for the kill so why should he especially when they dont stop
I think him killing megatron is justified for the mere fact, literally every villain has done this, Joker, green goblin, Lex, Venom have all offered to rule the world with the hero but the difference is prime shut him done and killed the evil war lord megatron🤷🏾♂️
9:38, yes, it is. He said “we need a truce”, he didn’t say “I surrender”. And even if Megatron were genuinely planning to go away then it would still be necessary to take Megatron prisoner. The sole question is “could Optimus manage to do that?” to which the answer is “probably not” which is why he was right to kill Megatron
Upon rewatching the scene of Megs say "we Need a truce," I believe he was talking to Sentinel, as he immediately says right after, "All I wanted was to be back in charge." As he only helped prime with Sentinel because he was being subjugated and relegated to a servant rather than the leader he once was.
People who think that Optimus is a too brutal on his enemies need to rewatch the scene in DOTM when the Decepticons invade Chicago. They are infinitely worse
Prime has been in perpetual war for 10s of, maybe 100s of, millions of years. He still should be noble and can show no mercy when it calls for it, I think slowly miss handled prime's character through out each film.
8:44 Well that is a good argument, but another reason is that Optimus didn't see Megatron being sincere, in that scene Megatron doesn't apologize for the millions of years of war, death, pain and trauma that he put everyone on Cybertron through, and he still sounds very much like his evil snarky self, " where would you be without me?" That's not an apology for the millions of years of death and Pain you caused, " I just want to be back in charge" oh so you still want to conquer stuff, although he saved Optimus and asked for a truce, could you blame Optimus for not trusting him after everything he's done, perhaps a well more calm and collected Optimus like in Transformers prime or G1, would try to accept this appeal, but not this hardened broken Man broken soldier who just wants this conflict to end already, so in a certain point of view, I would say this public execution is justified to a degree.
True Optimus in my eyes isnt a psychopath When the decepticons killed way too many innocent people And you forgot to explain the 3rd Movie Problem where people say optimus let the people of chicago to die by the decpeticons When in reality it was the humans fault to tell the autobots to leave And optimus follows the human leaders so that humans from all over the world wont die it was a hard choice either follow or more people besides in chicago will die
To put it Simply; I can Deeply Empathise with Optimus Prime Because of the Circumstances and Experiences of Turmoil, Pain, And the Suffering He has Been through.
Optimus killing Sentinel will always be the one kill I will defend and say Optimus was valid in doing so, Sentinel betrayed his fellow Autobots, killed Ironhide, attacked the NEST base, threatened to kill Optimus, attempted to kill all the Autobots while they were in the ship and showed no remorse over it, aligned himself with Optimus’ worst enemy and took over an entire city, planed to bring Cybertron back and enslave the entire human race, teared off Optimus’ arm and despite all of that Optimus still tried to plead and reason with Sentinel, only to be kicked aside while Sentinel once again attempted to murder Optimus. Would you want to defend and say Optimus shouldn’t have killed Sentinel right then and there? He didn’t deserve to be taken away and live, there was no reason to trust him anymore after all he had done, he didn’t even apologise, only tried to excuse himself for why he betrayed those who trusted him, he didn’t listen when Optimus tried to plead, so Optimus didn’t either, and was definitely right in doing so, Sentinel deserved what he got no question.
One can argue that the initial pivot in Prime's actions is the forst fight in Revenge of the Fallen. Literally the last words he hears before being killed is "you're so weak" and then being resurrected to the fact that the first Decepticon is back and is ready to destroy the world.
I think the "Give me your face!" scene works in context, for the original thirteen primes all shared similar masks that showed their status as primes. By removing it prime says that the fallen doesn't deserve the title of a prime. It just doesn't come across clearly in the movie.
That was actually his literal face. That being his mask was a misconception. If it really was a mask then we'd see a protoform face. Or something similar to Optimus's face. But we a skeletal like face. So Optimus literally took off his face
@@Kingofmenacesno I think his point is more valid
@@NumaxNinja what point? I'm just pointing out a common misconception. I wasn't making a point
@@Kingofmenaces Face that is technically a mask of the primes. How I see it anyway. Transformers anatomy...
It also rips away the face of the one who started the entire decepticon faction, so I guess you could say It’s almost like ripping away the whole decepticon faction.
This prime is not a broken man he is a broken soilder transformed by war and PTSD. He went from wanting peace and justice to protection and vengeance. This is war, and it shows how character can change in those situations
Heheh, transformed.
@@user-ir1xo9jp8w 😉👍
He never really went for purely vengeance though , he has moments of rage but whoever he kills contributes towards good since they had been in the past and still were upto no good , bad guys can be prioritised over only so much innocent life .
Don't forget that war will change everything about you. Imagine a WW1 soldier going through millennia of fighting. Optimus is not a psycho because he is doing everything he can to survive and live for himself and his team. Besides, he is still diplomatic all through unless a situation calls for it.
@@thalasowo3373 exactly thank you
After everything Megatron did in the Bayverse, plus the fact that he was basically the one who turned Sentinel over to Decepticons, making him believe they couldn’t win the war, and that cybertron could only be saved with the Decepticons help. He’s probably just angry at Megatron for everything. Megatron was simply throwing out a truce when everything he tried failed, and was basically just backing out and being a pussy. Optimus sensed that, coupled with the rage and blaming him for turning Sentinel to the dark side he just wouldn’t hear it.
And the whole “Time to find out” part after that whole rant Megatron went on about how Optimus wouldn’t be anyone without him was Optimus just telling him “bitch you’re nothing to me” he’s no longer his brother or anything like that. Thats why he also told Megatron when he said “We were brothers once” and he replied “Once” to tell him “naw we’re over, you’re way too late to get any sympathy from me.”
Also, me as a human I’d be pretty mad if Optimus DIDNT kill Megatron after what happened to Chicago.
There is a reason why the Nazis were hung and not forgiven.
I mean, if anyone knew what Megatron had done in other universes when he surrendered (86 Movie, anyone?) Optimus chose the best possible option,.
@@juice2307 EXACTLY 🗿
I love when optimus said time to find out, he was done holding any sympathy or compassion for megatron
Ya, personally speaking I'd compare this to what would be the reasonable consequences for Megatron after the war, the only options would be Banishment or execution. I don't think they would be able to properly banish Megatron, so he'd die either way.
The only time Megatron can be 'trusted' is when there is a bigger enemy. And even then usually not, Megatron from "Prime Wars" web series is the only one that was somewhat 'nice' without some reality flip.
I mean, to defend Optimus killing Megatron in DotM, let's not forget that Megatron literally stabbed him in the back in RotF and literally said he was weak. The way I see it, Optimus was simply returning the favor and gave him a taste of his own ruthlessness.
Facts
Optimus shouldn’t stoop to Megatron’s level
@@fegreninja7197 Because Optimus didn't stoop to the other Decepticons' levels?
He also killed one of his closest
Friends by ripping him in half
RIP Jazz
@@thebatmanofneo-gotham5667 my guy optimus already got his payback against megatron in tf2 by blasting half his face off and slicing his arm off. Optimus didn't have to kill megatron if the original ending had them forming a truce. It's like fans (especially bayverse fans) forget megatron isn't always treacherous and if he wants a truce, he's not kidding.
We suddenly gonna forget megatron forming truces with optimus in comics or TV shows didn't happen?.
Optimus Prime like many other great soldiers in fiction like Kratos and Snake, is a veteran. A victim of the war machine just as much as casualties or civillians in some ways
I feel like Snake isn't a great comparison for Optimus. Kratos is, because he and Optimus have been alive for an extremely long time. Snake's time was severely limited by design, and his final years were dedicated outright dismantling, and while his body breaks down over time, his mind and resolve were unbreakable. Optimus and Kratos are functionally immortal, and the generations of fighting have taken a serious mental toll on them.
@@mercury2157Yeah, Big Boss is the better comparison.
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 Big boss turned into a hypocrite, not hyper brutal. He had Punished Snake be that.
you have to think, prime came to earth trying to protect and have peace with everyone and instantly got targeted as an enemy in the 2nd film.
this is also a bot that’s been through centuries of war and was bound to reach his breaking point at some time
Hell, "centuries", and even possibly "millennia" still puts this Optimus as having been through some of the shortest amounts of time an Optimus Prime has been through the ringer, considering many others were at it for literal millions of years. As I once put it to my brother: Bay's Optimus is what happens when you take more of your classic Optimus, put him through more hell than most, and actually allow him to react in a more human way rather than being able to carry near-limitless burden like, say, G1 Optimus is seemingly able to do.
@@Synfang and you know something funny to me armada prime has ALOT in common with bay prime and it’s only not obvious because he’s a kids show prime
@@SynfangI feel like G1 Optimus carrying such a heavy burden works for him as a paragon hero similar to Superman, and Bayverse Optimus suffering from serious battle scars and trauma works for a version that's meant to be portrayed as human despite being a robot.
Also, he's an alien robot fighting other alien robots that can shapeshift. Being brutal and going for the most damage in the fastest way possible makes tactical sense. Also keep in mind that there is ALWAYS collateral damage from human allies and civilians that are small and fragile. These fights can go by really fast which is somewhat realistic.
@@josesosa3337 yeah I dont mind when the idea is timit colletaral on what happens to the squishies when its basically quick and painless, or when its the result of him just snapping. It's more of a problem when he's just being cruel
I interpret “Give me your face” as him taking The Fallen, and by proxy, the Decepticons power. The Fallen is the first Decepticon, and his face was the inspiration for the Decepticon symbol. And him tearing that symbol down in defense of a planets freedom emboldens his Autobot faith and strikes fear into the decepticons. And Megatron was indeed terrified.
His face being the inspiration for the Decepticon symbol is a bit tenuous in the context of what he looks like, honestly. I'd buy that if they actually used the design where he looks like the Decepticon symbol but I don't buy it when he looks like a bunch of bamboo leaves.
@@mercury2157 fallens original design was going to look like the deception logo but then they changed it into something far worse (for some reason I cannot understand)
@@mercury2157 Search up The Fallen's face. While it's not straight up the Decepticon Insignia, you can see some of the signature designs of it. I believe the Concept Art of the Fallen is even more clear that it's supposed to purposely look like the Decepticon Insignia, which lore wise would make sense since Megatron calls him his Master.
@@tarzantabi7845 I disagree about the final design looking worse. I thought The Fallen had a really cool design in general. The only issue with him is that he never Transformed.
Isn’t the Decepticon insignia based off of Megatronus prime?
The comparasion between G1 Prime & Bayverse Prime some people on the fandom tend to make is stupid
1. It's a Reinterpretation
2. G1 Optimus Fought against Decepticons that at their worst get drunk & cheat on Baseball, Bayverse Prime fight against Decepticons that Kill innocent people for Fun on a Daily Basis
The comparison between energon prime & Bayverse Prime some people on tfw2005 tend to be so smart
1. Both become depressed after avengers endgaming thier megatron
2. Movie Optimus fights a few guys, but energon Optimus ceases the life force of 1000s of terrorcon warriors in a single year despite the fact only 10 could bend a highly defended planet to its knees.
@apexsmokepacker wrong
Are you forgetting the transformers the movie where half of Optimus’s close friends got murdered.
@@Justsomeguy-v2d And there he was ready to kill Decepticons without any issue and execute a defeated and wounded Megatron
@@vengefulbale It was an active war zone after all, he gunned down most of the Decepticons in battle. And in Optimus’s own words “You, who show no mercy, now plead for it?”
In my opinion he wasn’t a psychopath but he is a broken person like you said he got betrayed by Megatron and his leader sentinel prime and also the humans fault that attack him and he was in shckk
Even Shockwave killed his Girlfriend (elita-1) in Prequel Comics
And Optimus was trying to survive. Because when you are at war, would you choose your morals or live to see another day?
@@unapessoa4875You meant the ROTF comics or others?
@@iamlouis1495 the DOTM comics...
@@unapessoa4875 but she was killed in ROFT alongside with Arcee.
good vid
However, I still find it strange that people forget one fact. This is a story about a war between two ALIEN factions.
They may have a different idea of morality, they have their own code of honor.
This idea can and even should differ from the wet fantasies of those infantile people who call Bayverse Prime a psycho.
Autobots and Decepticons can tear and shoot each other, they existed in other conditions and waged these wars for who knows how many centuries.
Agree, though I wouldn’t call anyone who believes Bayverse Optimus to be a psycho “infantile”, they’re just not seeing the full picture of what his character has truly been through behind all the explosions and brutality.
Speaking of which, I see the brutality of Optimus’ kills brought up as a common point by ppl who think he’s a deranged killer. People tend to offer the POV of “imagine they were human, this would be so much more brutal!”
Well, that’s the thing. They’re not human, they’re aliens. Their physiology is completely different to ours. A sword through the chest, yeah that will kill any one of us, no matter how tough we can get. A Cybertronian though? Unless you hit their spark, they can shrug that shit off and still kick ass. That’s why Optimus has to “rip and tear” to make sure these Decepticons stay dead. What looks overly brutal to us is basically necessary methods of killing to them. Hell, the humans in the films implore the same amount of brutality, just smaller scale and with firearms, yet they’re not the ones placed under the same microscope?
TL;DR Cybertronians be literally built different, harder to kill than us humans. What we consider brutal methods of killing is simply the efficient norm they have to use.
@@zexalcommander7036Exactly
@@zexalcommander7036Damn that's a good point, before I said that the only argument in favor of Optimus being a psycho is that he does Fatalitys to the Decepticons but I forgot how super resilient the Transformers are.
@@zexalcommander7036 There is no true character for this Optimus prime. Other Optimus prime’s you have a point. No where in the bayverse that a single moment is given to ask if prime is ok or if he questions what he’s doing. The morality of these two factions is very similar to human morality.
Optimus is not stupid to let Megatron live. A few seconds before, he LITERALLY said "This is my planet!" while he destroyed Sentinel. Megatron knew the battle was lost. Soundwave was death, Starscream was death, Shockwave was death, his army defeated. He was literally surrounded by autobots and human soldiers plus he saw that the humans now were able to use predator missiles inside the city. He knew he was going to die. He played the surrender card but Optimus called his bluff.
In the original movie ending he takes Megatron's truce and go their separate ways.
@@Automaton237what do you think would have been better
@@paladinheadquarters7776 the second option where they end the franchise with them both not attacking each other anymore.
@@Automaton237 But then we wouldn't get the best two movies in the franchise! /s
@@Mr.Spade1 those are definitely not the best movies in the franchise and even then they can have Megatron be a good guy and change the story to have the quintessence be the main villains and they could have their own powerful minions and army to be dangerous. Or instead of Megatron being on Earth as an ally he can instead show up at the last moment with his remaining Decepticon henchmen to fight and help the Autobots in the process winning the battle they can have a cool scene were the Decepticons slowly come out of the vehicle killing a bunch of the enemy forces catching them off guard and then Megatron and Optimus team up against the main villain and even have Megatron or Optimus Prime sacrifice themselves to save Cybertron and Earth.
To all G1 crackheads out there: 1. This is a different continuity of Transformers.
2. Optimus had been through a living Hell. Bee's voice box was damaged, Jazz was ripped in half and in the novel Megs ate his Spark, Megs was resurrected and stabbed Optimus in the back, and shot his Spark into oblivion, while Megs called him weak, Fallen betrayed the Primes, so Optimus had every right to tear that guys face off, he brought Sentinel back from the Moon and revived him, only for him to betray them all and back-shoot Ironhide and leave him to rust into dust, Que was literally executed, the Autobots were exiled to other parts of the Solar System before Que's death, Ratchet was violently torn apart, while begging for mercy, and Lockdown ripped his Spark out of his chassis having refused to give up Primes location, the Wreckers, Sideswipe, and Dino were hunted down too, Cade, Tessa, Shane, and the rat (Lucas) were in danger, and Lockdown turned the rat into a charred skeleton, KSI accidentally revived Megatron and were responsible for the destruction of Hong Kong, Attinger and Cemetary Wind were closing in on them, he was mind controlled by Quintessa in the Last Knight, and nearly killed Bee.
I fucking dare you to tell me you wouldn't snap after that
Exactly imagine watching your friends die one by one in a never ending war for centuries, being betrayed by your only trusted mentor and the humans you swore to protect, seeing your friends being hunted down and melted in front of you.
no sane person would be able to endure something like that, you will break eventually.
Got me wondering if he does have witness things similar to this before he even get to earth in the first movie, and if he does. He probably have just gone through a fresh character arc and decided to be a noble pacifist in the first movie. Until the following movies happened which now makes him loses his shit once again
"bUt pRimE iS SUppoSed tO be NoiCCe" every g1 fan in a nutshell
@@chito2701nah, im built diffrent. (I would be the first to die)
I disagree. When pacifist can turn non-pacifist, they have a bias. So, this Optimus probably didn't think his actions through. Actual pacifist will reflect at their anger/mistakes as soon as they can
I don't understand when people say Optimus is a psycho, he just kills the evil decepticons and rescues the day. He does whatever is necessary.
@apexsmokepacker wrong
He tends to overindulge and I think that does speak to how the war might have changed him for the worst.
But then maybe its also a byproduct of their species being so damn durable and hard to kill.
Which is an interpretation I like that both old IDW and new Image comics TF has tackled, that they are metal shelled giants fighting in worlds so easily bruised, even the early scene of Prime in Image Comics was him accidentally crushing a deer and reflecting that even the ground beneath them shakes and deforms unlike Cybertron.
Its fantastic stuff.
He executed a wounded captured Decepticon who wasn’t a threat anymore.
Fans when villain kills the hero: "HURR HURR! Character development!!"
Fans when hero kills bad guy: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! HOW COULD YOU BETRAY US LIKE THAT?!?!?!?!?!??!"
@@Justsomeguy-v2d decepticons would show no mercy,guess what happened to decepticons that were trapped..yep they come back and caused death none defacted
Finally glad someone else understoods that he's not psychotic, but just a war traumatised, battle hardened warrior whose witnessed countless deaths and brutal scenes over his whole life as a soldier, and how it affected him in such a way.
Among other things of cause. Also if he were a true psychopath, none of his allies would be left alive as he would of probably killed them, similar to Joker in a way.
Basically he’s suffering PTSD on steroids
@@NaimChowdhury-cj4kk pretty much.
@@NaimChowdhury-cj4kk I doubt it.
The fallen also destroyed other planets before being banished/exiled and his ass was going to do it again after destroying the earth if he succeeded and what’s interesting about optimus not killing megatron in the novel compared to the movie is how megatron went about offering the truce,in the novel it was more sincere and selfless vs the movie were he comes off selfish and back to being ego driven. And one thing I like about prime is that even tho he has trust issues he doesn’t use that as a excuse to be a complete asshole like other characters from fiction
i agree (most of) prime's kills are justified it's just the way he does it is unjustified he pointlessly mutilates his oponents just to make them suffer instead of quickly and peacefully killing them
Did the Fallen destroy other planets? It was implied that earth was the first planet he tried to destroy.
@@jonathandelgado3755the primes don’t destroy planets. They destroy suns and turn them to energon. They normally destroy stars with no living creatures, so the fallen didn’t try to destroy the planet (technically) he did try to destroy a star with animals in its star system.
@@iminyourwallscall911The brutality never bothered me I only had a problem with lockdowns death because it just felt unnecessary and extra for the writers to have prime slice him in half but that’s it.
@@jonathandelgado3755 the tie in stuff reveals that he destroyed other planets before earth, the primes found out about his actions before he could do the same thing to our planet
I always thought Megatron was talking to Optimus when saying “we need a truce”, and Optimus did not trust the guy enough to accept that truce. But eventually I realized…Megatron was talking to SENTINEL. He’s the one Megatron is looking at when he’s talking about a truce, and it’s not until he says “who would you be without me” that he faces Optimus. So it wasn’t that Optimus had trust issues with Megatron, Megatron was still intending to be at war with the Autobots and humanity, he just had to assert his strength and demand he be put back at the top above Sentinel
Why would Megatron want to make a truce with Sentinel Prime again Sentinel Prime would just betray Megatron and kill him in the original ending they do make a peace treaty and go their separate ways.
@@Automaton237 I am unfamiliar with what the film was going to be beforehand, but as for the final product, I highly doubt Megatron would break away from the plan and make peace with Optimus then and there, especially as by this point, Cybertron was halfway through the portal and into Earth’s orbit. It wasn’t until Carly made Megatron realize that he was beneath Sentinel and needed to assert his dominance over him, make it known that “Megatron is commanded by no one.” Plus, I also doubt the very leader of the Decepticons would somehow give Sentinel much of a chance to betray and kill him, especially after the beating he had just given him. And as for “all I want is to be back in charge”, it makes more sense if he’s talking to Sentinel, as he is the one that Megatron (to an extent) relinquished command of operations to in the deal they made.
He solider not a psycho. Just because you are solider does not mean you are a psycho. Its his job as the leader of the autobots.
I’ve always had a problem with the thought he should of spared megatron especially since megatron ordered the destruction of the xanthium only wanting a true after realizing that sentinel was taking charge so Optimus after dealing with megatron and his bs for Billions of years killed him
Facts the Saving grace for the novel ending is that megatron was more sincere and selfless but I prefer the movie ending I just wish megatrons betrayel of sentinal and dooming his own plan was better executed
Not to mention it's Megatron you can't trust him if Optimus let him go that's letting a threat remain to be able to kill and innocent human he wants and he hates humanity so why let him go and continue to risk innocent lives naw eliminate the threat and be done with it
@@elishawilson5342 That is still immoral!
@johnnotrealname8168 no it was actually the right call as many lives are safe and the threat is gone you may argue it's immoral I highly disagree not only is it justified defense as Megatron was gonna shoot him in that moment it was also what saved billions around the world especially as they leveled Chicago no Optimus was right through and through
@@elishawilson5342 You are not allowed to kill a combatant who is not attacking you. From what I gathered he was on Optimus Prime's side and indeed defended him. Summary execution is not acceptable anymore.
The Bayverse Optimus Prime never was a librarian, archivist, a space bridge repair crew-member or dock worker. He was a soldier, a Knight. That is how the Allspark created him. This is actually somewhat close to a depiction of Optimus in the comics where he’s a Police Officer before becoming a Prime.
He was actually in charge of the science division on Cybertron with no knowledge of his past as a prime until Sentinel found him. Wasn't till before the war started the Optimus learned of his connections to the Dynasty of Primes. Him being a knight though that just came out of nowhere and didn't make any sense whatsoever.
@@jimhershey5487Wait he was always connected to the lineage of the Primes? Was he never Orion Pax out here?
@@thespiritofjonathanjoestar6805 not that I could find. He probably was Orion Pax but I've read the stories many times, seems like Optimus was indeed connected to the original Primes he had one of the Prime symbols on his head, but he's never referred as Orion Pax, just Optimus.
It's a bit hypocritical in my opinion
The Decepticons and other villains mercilessly killing millions of innocent people without even caring,Nobody says anything
Plus Optimus giving the same treatment they did to the innocent and even defending his own friends, that's a problem
Plus he died when he was protecting sam, in his dying breath he thought he doomed earth and humanity and after he was revived and saw the star harvester activating he pulled the gloves out.
Well, no shit. They're VILLAINS. It's expected that the hero (especially a character like Optimus) should do and be better than them and us.
@@SNDWV99 i know,But didn't anyone think that he could be treating them the same way the Decepticons treat humans so they can feel their "pain"?
@unapessoa4875 Maybe. Still seems he's enjoying it too much for my taste.
@ichaseiyoutube I'm saying people/haters SEEM to inocenting the Decepticons
For the Transformers 3 Megatron situation, the original ending for the film was going to be the same as the books, but Amazon fucked up and accidentally leaked the original ending in the novelization of the book in their page preview thing on their site. So the ending was changed to the one we got in the final film, that's why it feels so out of place considering what you said throughout the film with Megatron being tired of fighting and just wanting to go home.
Or It’s either way Hasbro forcing bay and movie workers to change the ending, because they noticed the leak. I’m not pretty sure if movie production do care about the leaks and stuff.
@@iamlouis1495 Bay himself changed it. He didn't like how the ending got leaked so he changed it so it wouldn't be expected.
@@StableDruid130oh
In Optimus defense his "I won't actually kill you" thing got him killed in the second movie
This is so true to what Optimus is really going through, the people who say that Optimus Prime is a psycho they don't even pay attention to these movies, the movies really show how much pain Optimus feels when his friends are killed off by the Decepticons , that shows how much of a true Leader he is.
A battle crazed soldier can still be a bit psychopathic though, I feel like that is part of the tragedy but its not exactly an ideal version of Optimus Prime who is characterized as a fatherly figure too.
@@kennethsatria6607 you literally proved his point face it. He’s not a psycho.
Megs wasnt asking for a truce, he was trying to escape from consequences
I think he was mocking him and seeing *you can't kill me, I'm too important"
@@GreysonIngall I see it that way too, a bit of a meta insult too
What would an Optimus Prime be without Megatron?
the guy just fight a fair fight with murder psycho robots that do numerous genocides and people just call him a psycho for that?!
That was a pleasantly respectful insight to Optimus Prime.
My father is a military vet, served for over thirty years and I recognized what he went through in Bay's Optimus. Thank you for offering a compassionate view towards the actions and struggles veterans have to go through during war and when they, hopefully, come home.
“Guyss, why is Optimus so mean to the deshepticons 😭”
The decepticons: 👶🔫🤖
It's like saying we were too mean to the Nazis in World War II 💀💀
@@kobi7955dawg💀
But Fr, people are acting like the decepticons are any better
I honestly think that less people would object to Optimus’ treatment of the decepticons if they included the Megatron cannibal scenes.
@@krys7643 i mean decepticons wanted to enslave us and think of us lesser cuz we are built different,they are robot space nazis
realest video regarding the live action films. bay prime is not a psychopath and is one of the best takes on the character. i think people look past that because they see these movies at face value which is fair bc they're dumb action movies at the end of the day. but when you really decide to pay attention you realize that all of these fuckers deserved it lmao. and the explanation for prime's attitude towards humanity in AOE is literally thrown at the viewers face
I think people also ignore how kind and respectful Optimus is to the humans throughout the films. Even in AOE when the humans almost murdered him, and murder his friends, he at worst only:
A) lectured the human that is responsible for melting his friend while said human called him a piece of technology. Said human was also ftrainkinstining a bunch of robot corpses to hunt down Optimus.
B) He killed one human, that human being the one who is responsible for the death of his friends. Oh and maybe he killed a goon or 2 that was part of the human faction that tried to kill him and his friends, said goons were about to murder a family of 2.
C)he hit one human with his gun out of a PTSD panic, which isn’t good, but again Optimus just came back to live after being hunted by humans.
Facts optimus was the real deal he fought for what’s right he didn’t care about status like megatron and he doesn’t care about being superior to others like sentinel and even after all the backstabbing while he definitely has trust issues he didn’t let it turn him into a total asshole like other characters. Bayverse prime is my favorite incarnation
Yes......the truth is that I always felt tender about the way Optimus acted with humans, whether they were civilians or friends 💖. He treated them with great care and affection, as if they could break if you didn't take good care of them.
And it made me so angry and helpless when they betrayed them, since it was obvious that Optimus was hurt and disappointed at having to suffer more betrayals 😾
He didn't have to do a whole ass fatality on Grindor though
@@NiCoNiCoNiCola it was a 3V1, what was he supposed to do? He even lost his life in that fight.
A simple way to say hes not a psycho os to just say, "hes an old bot whos been in a war with his brother for centuries which would just knock the unspoken rules of war out the window because of how long its been going, and constant betrayal thats probably happen before a few times on cybertron aswell, and the death of his home world". That would make anyone do that kind of stuff
He destroyed their plant. Thats honestly all that needs to be said for anyone whos not huffing goof juice.
Optimus also probably kills the decepticons because if cybertron had a justice system, it’s probably no longer in use because of the war. So nothing else would stop the decepticons besides death. Also my headcanon is after prime is revived, the experience of death changed him and made him more aggressive
Agreed. Bayverse/Tyran OP is a man that pretty much through absolute hell. Best way I can describe it is that he's pretty much like the Doom Slayer except Bayverse/Tyran Prime still has some support from what little Autobots he has left and whatever humans that can get over their fears of a giant war veteran robot whereas the Doom Slayer (prior to the games) pretty much lost everything and had to fight his war alone.
And, just like Doomguy, OP (in a lot of versions, but Bayverse/Tyran especially) has been fighting for thousands if not millions of years. So, "Being tired of fighting Decepticons" might be the biggest understatement in Transformers history. He and Megatron have more or less been sending their fellow brothers and sisters in arms through the meatgrinder for eons and OP is very much tired of what is pretty much an endless war.
As for the "Give me your face" line, some people already pointed it out but I also agree with them. The Fallen/Megatronus pretty much wore the mask of his position within the Primes and Optimus found him unworthy to be called a Prime given what he tried to do.
If anything, Bayverse/Tyran Optimus is best describe as a man constantly pushed to his limits and given little to no time to actually rest. That kind of pressure tends to make a lot of people break and cross boundaries, Optimus being no exception.
Overall, great video.
He was a hero.
ngl as a kid i never saw him as much of a "physco" just more of a vengeful guy, he lowkey reminded me of batman ngl
Sentinel betrayed and murdered his own people, ordered the slaughter of an entire city, was planning to subjugate all of humanity, and would have killed Optimus if Megatron hadn't intervened at the last second.
And people have the gall to act like Optimus is somehow in the wrong...
Personally, I agree that Optimus Prime is not a psycho in these movies. While I don't agree with him killing Megatron in DOTM, I still think he's just a broken man who's a victim of war. Besides ilke you said I think with a few improvements here and there, Optimus could've been more compelling and empathetic to the audience. In fact, the version of Optimus that I think shows what Bayverse Optimus should've been is in Transformers: Prime. In this show, Optimus is very similar to his movie self but is more empathetic and compelling and we understand why he fights the way he does and has a subtle story arc in the series where he learns to do whatever it takes to end a war. Overall, I really enjoyed Movie Optimus Prime, and I personally think he is not a psycho, just a victim of a long long war.
How couldn't you agree with Prime killing MEGATRON??? This is like saying "I don't agree with an allied soldier killing Hitler" 💀😭
@@kobi7955 I don't agree with Optimus killing Megatron because Megatron offered a truce and saved Optimus' life. Furthermore, killing Megatron goes against everything Optimus Prime is about, especially since he wasn't trying to kill him.
@@SgtAJ218 Megatron started a revolt that led to a centuries long war that destroyed Cybertron and killed countless friends and allies of Optimus, hell Optimus has outlived entire generations of Autobots who gave their lives to fight for him. I don't think he'd want a truce with an enemy that destroyed their entire home and culture and forced their race to know nothing but war and death.
@@kobi7955Ong bro I don't get these people. Like oh yes we should definitely trust the psycho robot that has killed millions of people mercilessly and is also the leader of a group that has mf DECEPTION IN ITS NAME 💀💀💀. Optimus is 100% justified
No no everyone gets this all wrong megatron didnt want a truce with optimus he wanted a truce with sentinel he holded sentinel while looking at him and then said all i want is to be back in charge and then looked at prime
When people call Bayverse Optimus Prime a psycho...
Im literally asking myslef: "DO YOU EVEN CONSIDER HIS SITUATIONS?! DO YOU HAVE NO BRAIN?!"
He’s not a psycho, he’s just sick of everyone’s bullshit and those hands are rated E for everyone
Just one reason is insanely more than enough and that is:
He was in war for 9 million years. Sissies won't get this obviously but we don't need to justify ANYTHING to them.
Only a few years can make a person go mad, imagine 9 million years. Optimus's personality is commendable.
Even in TF Prime and WFC and FOC games Prime is ruthless when needed and when pushed to the extreme. He is a just leader and an advocate for peace, but if peace is threatened by unrational enemies and no other alternative is available he will rip out your spine
Thank you for this video seriously. I was getting tired of some of these other youtubers saying that optimus was a psycho and a murderer as if a lot of the ones he killed didn't have it coming to them
Definitely agree, Bayverse Optimus definitely saw so much horrendous shit throughout the films to the point that it's a miracle that he hasn't snapped already from the sheer amount of trauma he's accumulated over the years he's spent fighting against the Decepticons.
There really was so much potential with this franchise.
If the cgi wasn't so taxing (time wise and money wise)
And they got top tier writers
It could have been great.
Didn't half of the autobot die because they were basically written off?
The cgi wasn’t the problem for the transformers screen time it was the scripts and all of the scenes not being added in the movies because after reading the dotm novel there was definitely way more transformer screen time originally intended
These videos always interest me
Thank you so much for making this video
As for my opinion
I think Optimus prime in these movies are absolutely justified
Every single one of them
As for Megatron’s decapitation scene, I think Optimus just wanted to end the war, not taking any chances. And Megatron himself I think could’ve worded his truce better like: “now we need a truce, I am tired of this, all of this Optimus, even an endless war must end sometime, and thus I shall devote myself and the remaining decepticons to rebuild cybertron, and leave Earth alone. It’s over prime, all of this is over.”
And I thought prime turning into Nemesis Prime was actually logical since by that point he has lost almost everything and everyone, except for his home planet which he still has a chance to save. And seeing as how humans have betrayed him, it’s actually somewhat justified from Optimus’ view. I think Prime can even just not get brainwashed and still do those things in Tlk because he has enough reason to do so.
okay what about demolishor in the video he says optimus kills demolishor because he is sick of decepticons but that is not an excuse to ruthlessly murder him also demolishor was not a complete monster he only killed people because he was running for his life he had no other option if you had to step on a bunch of mice just to survive would you?
also i still think optimus is a psychopath because while yes the deaths of grindor,the fallen and megatron are excusable since they were in battle the way he kills them is petty, cruel and sadistic he tears grindor's head in half with hooks, then rips off the fallen's face and tears his heart out of his chest with his bare hands and he decapitates megatron even though it's pointless since the head is not as vital as the spark also he killed megatron even when megatron surendered that is a literal war crime
@@iminyourwallscall911 you don't even know what Psychopath means
@@j.c7282 i mean what he did to sentinel was pretty psychopathic but i get you're point i used the wrong word
@@iminyourwallscall911I mean demolishor did kill a lot of people. Leaving that machine alive is too risky.
Tbh I don't think it was quite ever called into question whether Optimus's kills were *justified*, he's a leader in a war. He has to make hard decisions, he can't coast through the war without getting blood- er, Energon, on his hands. The Idea really is that, As the series continued, Prime's methodology becomes more brutal, and his Sanity begins to slip. He's beaten, killed, betrayed, shunned, and broken. Even the best of leaders might very well break under these conditions. It's fascinating. An issue people tend to have with this, however, is that this isn't how Optimus Prime is traditionally depicted. Usually, Prime is an unwavering hero, Kind and Gentle to his allies, and still merciful to his foes. A Paragon of virtue, justice, and all that is "good". But Bay's Prime, as flawed as the movies are, take a somewhat more realistic approach to Prime's character. He tries his hardest to do the right thing, to be the good Leader he should be, but he *has* to kill Decepticons if he wants to save the innocent. After millions of years of conflict, He's grown tired. He's an old soldier, an old man, fighting a battle that should have ended lifetimes ago when the planet was effectively destroyed. But the battles won't end. Even death won't keep him out of the fight, apparently. And the inhabitants of his new home have decided he doesn't belong, and have betrayed him. He's tired, bitter, regretful. He still tries to be the good guy, but he's just so full of anger and regret, it's hard to be the merciful, gentle hero he once was.
This is true, but my problem is not the fact that he kills, oh no, he is absolutely justified in killing the Decepticons, evil is evil, my problem is THE WAY he kills them. The best example of an Optimus that does kill and isn't insanely brutal about it is Transformers: Prime Optimus Prime. That Optimus did kill Deceptcons, but when he did it, it felt like he was doing it to survive and to get it over with rather than dwelling on it by being overly brutal or because his morals are "corrupted". He still retained his morals and killed in a swift and precise manner like the other Autobots in TFP. As one comment stated, maybe if the Bayverse had better writing, people wouldn't be as bitter about Prime killing Decepticons, even though they would probably still be bitter about him going a little too overboard and unnecessary (I'm no exception to this). Now, about prime being "Realistic" because he gets corrupted is kinda BS because yes, in a war, you have to kill to survive, but you can be swift, quick, and efficient with your kills while still retaining your hope and humanity. This is what Optimus is supposed to be, a war veteran that kills to survive, but does it quickly and effectively, and still values the life of others that he cares about and who he strives to protect, and in some scenarios, tries to reason with his enemies at first, and when he's left with no choice, he ends up killing them, but Never in a Mortal Kombat fashion. And to that argument of saying that war can corrupt ideals, Optimus is the antithesis to that. People can still keep their morals and ideals, even if they have no other choice but to kill. They do it not because they want to be a psycho but because they're trying to survive and fight for a good cause. Maybe if they had a scene in the bayverse (maybe in Dotm) where he realizes he started to go down a brutal and psychotic path, and then he brings himself back to being hopeful and changes himself for the better, and goes back to killing quickly and swiftly like how he does in TF1 and TFP ofc ( even though TFP came after the bayverse but still). But IDk, that's just me, maybe I'm wrong or maybe I'm not, at the end of the day, this is just my opinion.
In my opinion, you are wrong on the fact that lockdown was going to kill Optimus. He said earlier that he wanted to take him to his creators, so Optimus killed him to protect Cade and other humans. Also doesn’t it sound wierd that Optimus says “honor to the end” after killing lockdown from behind?
Not at all he was about to kill Cade the whole point was about having each others back till the end
He says honor to the end to cade
Why not? Lockdown cheapshot Optimus first so.....
Bayverse Optimus Gets Way More Pain & Deaths Then Any Other Optimus...
For example:- Transformers Prime Optimus prime lost Cliff Jumper only...
While Bayverse Optimus Lost 3/4 Members of his Main Team...
You're forgetting the entirety of War and Fall of Cybertron also feature Prime Optimus, technically. He came to a room where Starscream was on a killing spree, and his only words when he got there was "I couldn't save them..."
@@burnttoast.2017 Cybertron stories don't count...
Everyone is at full on war on Cybertron...
No mercy is given no matter what...
On Earth it counts more
It's implied that Prime had lost a lot of his friends in the prime continuity. Not saying Bay prime didn't as well, but in truth, almost every version of prime has lost a mass amount of their allies.
@@superxavxii421 yes but bay one has lost more....
@@Anupamprime that's some dumb logic. No offense. I'm not even gonna acknowledge that as a counter because it really isn't one.
One thing regarding Prime as a victim of war is he's not a newface who's just being introduced to the horrors of it. He already watched his own home planet become an uninhabitable husk, and now he and his few remaining friends are the only ones who can protect this new one they've found. Every human death at the hands of a Decepticon is one that, to him, he is ultimately responsible for failing to protect, and every Autobot death is another comrade lost trying to keep this new home from becoming just like his last. Add to that how the various human organisations actively antagonise and later start hunting them, and it's not at all hard to see how this would break even the strongest of men to become ruthless, jaded and untrusting.
Damn, that novel ending was infinitely better than what we got in the movie
My head cannon says the Matrix isn't what we thought it was. It looks like Unicron's horns in the last knight and it brought him back Pet Cemetary style :)
That actually makes a lot of sense
That sounds really and would have connected him a lot better is he was set up earlier.
Megatron isn’t a sympathetic antagonist that could be redeemed. Megatron, is a purely evil character. Maybe in the context of Transformers One, Megatron is sympathetic. But Bayverse Megatron is cold hearted, ruthless, unapologetically sinister. Optimus was right to kill him. Cause he would’ve just continued committing genocide against humans.
Thanks for this video. I'm so sick of people who don't know what a war crime is make video essays about Optimus committing war crimes. As if the Deceptions have been anything but menaces the whole series. And as of Humanity isn't completely fucked without autobot help.
I know I'm late to this but this video reminded me of another video explaining primes anger and animosity towards his, enemy his death and the last words he heard at the end of the forest fight might have impacted him to where he decided "enough was enough". So in my opinion Optimus took those words to heart and decided not to hold back anymore.
Bayverse Optimus Prime is not the same “idealistic champion of all that is good” that G1 and other counterparts of him are and that’s okay. It makes sense for a live action franchise where things are more grounded. Yeah, yeah the lore gets expanded and crazier as we go on, but the movies are still fairly grounded in a realistic setting.
Bayverse Prime is not a Psycho, nor does he progressively become one. He’s a grizzled war veteran and leader that has endured so much, yet still clings onto noble principles: “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.” Even in the face of such adversity of losing allies, dying, and being betrayed by people you swore to protect.
Funny how despite all the criticisms of just how many “warcrimes” he’s committed, he never did break that mantra of his. Never once did he become the oppressor. Not even when brainwashed. He was threatening, oh yes. But never once did he strip an *innocent* sentient being’s freedom.
“But what about those surrendering Decepticons-?”
Did we watch the same films? Name one scene where a Decepticon straight up goes “I surrender! Please don’t kill me!”
Not a single instance. The Decepticons hiding that NEST hunted? Yeah they’re just biding their time to revive Megatron and start their shenanigans again. Just because they start hiding doesn’t absolve them of all wrong they have committed or will commit.
I'm glad someone finally talks about this topic without falling into the cliché "The OG Prime's not like this, this is NOT a real Prime!!", and take this into a deeper perspective.
Though I really get why he killed off Megatron in DOTM, at this point, nobody in their sane mind would accept a "peace treat" with the dude that literally killed you, stabbing at your back. Don't forget all the things he has done on the course of the movie franchise
I believe most compare movie prime to rid2001 prime.
The "give me your face" line also had another meaning, ALL primes have something similar as the mark of one being a prime. He tore it off, essentially saying "you don't deserve it" to the fallen.
I think we’re all forgetting that this is the bayverse we’re talking about
Optimus is still Optimus he’s just matching the brutality universe he is in
Honestly, i feel like the actual reason his fights are brutal is because with robots you can get away with all the crazy stuff like ripping off arms and slicing open heads. No actual gore and blood so why not. Cause imagine all these executions with human characters, it would literally be mortal Kombat. I know thats not the main focus of the vid, but it was on my mind. Great vid.
It's just hypocrisy that people are saying ROTB Optimus Prime is justified in killing Scourge Mortal Kombat style because he killed Bumblebee? And it's funny considering the fact that Bumblebee was resurrected later in the movie lol
Bayverse Optimus Prime also had plenty of reasons to be violent
Lost Jazz
Had to sacrifice his brother to save Earth
Was pressured to leave Earth
Got killed by Megatron
Lost Jolt, Arcee and Chromia
Lost the person he loved the most, Elita-1 (left on bad terms with each other as well)
Was lied to by the humans
Was betrayed by Sentinel Prime
Forced into leaving Earth
Lost Ironhide, The Twins and Que
Unwillingly killed his former leader and teacher
Betrayed by the humans, losing more Autobots in the process
Lost one of his oldest friends, Ratchet
Joshua Joyce told that he wasn't needed to defend Earth anymore
Captured by Lockdown and was told his creators wanted him back
Quintessa told that he caused Cybertron destruction
Quintessa brainwashed him, turning him into Nemesis Prime
Quintessa told that the planet he was defending was actually Unicron
Sure, he's done some violent things, but calling him "psycho-murderer" is a big stretch too far. The Bayverse Decepticons genuinely look like death machines and have negatively impacted both physically and mentally. Not a coincidence either that some of the brutal kills he's been involved in are regarded as some of the best scenes in the movies, even the franchise. And it's a new take on the character, and I like the idea of Optimus fuelled with rage by the war.
Ive never understood the "hes a psycho" stance. He takes care of his allies, he didnt even let the Autobots go after Bumblebee in the first movie knowing the humans were going to experiment on him because of how fragile the humans are. He never purposely puts any human or autobot in danger and will put himself at risk to help them.
His fighting style against decepticons is brutal yes, but only because he has to make sure theyre stopped for good. The decepticons in bayverse are actual psychos, they were willing to cut open Sam's head sithout anesthesia or anything for the pain, he would have suffered an agonizing death if the Autobots hadnt intervened. They tore apart one of their own for parts to revive megatron, they treat humans like bugs, casually killing them just because they get in the way. They're irredeemable and Optimus knows this, thats why he fights to kill rather than subdue
He only fights humans in 4 because of them mercilessly hunting down his fellow autobots, desecrating their corpses to use them as research, his trust has been broken. Ratchet didn't even fight back until they had mulitiple attenpts to kill him, they executed him through Lockdown. Everything is so much more brutal in bayverse compared to something like G1, so its always made sense to me that Optimus is more like a hardened soldier. To give these psychos mercy is basically allowing them to kill a bunch more innocent people and tear his allies apart once they regroup. Its good that he fights the way he does, because he needs to
From what I've heard, the original scene was gonna have Megatron and Prime team up to fight a longer battle and then go their ways, but it was replaced by a rather fast paced moment of Megatron jumping and Optimus cleaning up.
Movie optimus was justified in their action both bayverse and rotb. Bayverse con literally commits genocide on earth, collateral damage and killing innocent and destroying earth and rotb is justified killing the devil's henchmen. Both wants to save their soldier. But people justify rotb optimus anger as saying he lost bee but bay's optimus lost as same if not more, he lost his friends ratchet, ironhide, jazz, his girlfriend elita and many other autobots by the hands of shockwave. Homie got betrayed by his brother Megatron, his mentor sentinel and importantly by humanity and he still save them. I just hope they focused on his anger in the film and the conflict on his mind like Neroidius said, overall both bay and rotb prime needs therapy.
Also people forget that how bay treat his human allies he treat them with respect and doesn't belittle them he was angry when the hid a secret about the ark in the moon and when they were being hunted. Also people say that optimus saying you die to shockwave is bloodthirsty, bruh this is shockwave a guy who in all continuities is a threat and not only that but shockwave in the prequel comic literally killed autobots refugee including jolt and elita one and he was responsible for destroying parts of Chicago with his driller. Plus these are not the cons from g1(show not comics) since they usually are the Saturday morning villains(until the movie) unlike the bay cons whose attempt almost destroyed earth. Plus prison was not made until dotm but only one jail for average cybertronian but it was destroyed by shockwave and in tlk the prison for con were fully made.
I think Prime was so traumatized by Sentinel's betrayal, he felt 100% sure Megatron was going to betray him. Especially with how many humans and his own died because of him.
*Prime didn't want to take a chance.* Even with his reasonable nature.
I'm honestly sick of people being too stupid and sheltered to know the difference between war crime and completely justified actions in war...
I agree and I always found it strange that people think he’s a psycho. His anger towards the deceptions is justified and it makes him a more potent threat in battle. I think that the way he acts is a lot more realistic than the slapstick fighting of g1, including the movie. (No hate I love and grew up on g1)
What sucks is that Megatron's truce WOULD'VE happened had the novel not been spoiled because of Amazon's shitty book preview feature. Fuck you Amazon for that one! Bayverse Prime is a broken war-torn bot, who would coincidentally get along with UT Prime who fucking loved combat (even if he never admits it).
UT? Which version is that?
@@blizzardgaming7070 Unicron Trilogy
@@Jetblast01 thanks
I absolutely love how you call Cade Yeager Marky-Mark
Finally someone who understands what he went through!! Everybody keeps saying he's a socio without realizing that ITS WAR that has been going on for hundreds of years.
G1 Prime had been fighting Megatron and the Decepticons for possibly millions of years, yet always remained the strong yet gentle and compassionate leader
@@badger_shorts7708 yeah... for a kids show. This is more of a realistic setting.
@@CaptainRacer4Real realistic or not, it's not who Prime is.
Even Peter Cullen has said that he doesn't like how Bay made Optimus Prime.
@@badger_shorts7708 'G1 Prime had been fighting Megatron and the Decepticons for possibly millions of years, yet always remained the strong yet gentle and compassionate leader'''
ahhh yeah G1 the goffy decetions that felt more like childrens.... ha....
@@badger_shorts7708
You seriously compare G1 Prime to Bayverse Prime. Thats another one part of the problem. People continue to compare Bayverse Prime to G1 Prime as if they should be THE EXACT SAME and ignoring that this is a completely different universe with a different take on Optimus.
Not every Optimus Prime in the Transformers franchise has too be the same.
People trynna convince me he’s innocent and there’s others trynna convince me he’s guilty. He’s on trial right now bruh
Thank you so much it is very hard to find someone else who knows that he is not a psychopath
When Marky-Mark first wakes Optimus, you can hear him yell ‘Sam’ through the static. I’m almost certain Prime’s last memory before going into hiding was seeing Lockdown kill Sam Witwicky.
I'm pretty sure the "give me your face" line is because they use the fallen's face as the decepticon symbol.
Great video and absolutely agree with you! Glad to hear people defending just about anything in these movies I love. Though one thing, I have a STRONG doubt Megatron was actually asking for a truce... Remember Optimus knew him much longer than we did and canonically he was a corrupt politician on cybertron who basically started the war...
My take on this was that Optimus was so brutal when dealing with Decepticons, simply due to the fact that the Decepticons have a God complex, they look down on Autobots and other life forms as if they all are mere mindless bugs that need to be eradicated.
Well can't blame him since his enemies keep coming back from the dead, so he had to make sure ykyk
Ngl most of the cases of him killing boil down to, “they’re literally out of they’re minds if I don’t end them they will kill me and then everyone else.
As a small fun fact in both of the spanish dubs for Revenge of the Fallen, the latin-america and the Spain versions (they're different from each other), when Optimus is about to finish off The Fallen he says:
- Latin-america: "encarame ahora" (this can be translated back to english to something like "face me off" or "fight me"; obviously then pun in the dub is going more to the "face me off" because of the word )
- Spain: "nunca das la cara" (this is literally just "you never show your face").
So, in the spanish community the "give me your face" line does not exist at all in that sense; I like how you, in your video, and the people that commented in this video gave some other interpretations for this line, but personally because of my own personal experience with the dubs version I like to take Optimus quote as of him referring to The Fallen as a coward of some sort. You know even if all the events in the movie are consequences of The Fallen actions and orders, he is mostly waiting in the shadows while his henchmen do the job he gave them. I'm not ranting on The Fallen, he's my personal favorite villain from the movies, but he being somewhat portrayed as a coward in the sense of giving orders and not going to face off his enemies is interesting.
Don't forget, this is also the continuity where humans incarcerate the Decepticons and execute the Autobots.
I always thought about it like this:
Bonecrusher was killing civilians and Optimus, while not entirely on the ropes, would've lost if he let him live.
Both Grindor and Demolishor would've returned to the rest of the Decepticons and killed more after their initial rampages.
The Fallen was, obviously, hellbent on harvesting the Milky Way's sun. The face taking thing is probably more symbolic than anything.
Shockwave (as revealed in the IDW comics) killed Elita-One, and had also aided in the invasion of Chicago.
Megatron and Sentinel were the two who got the closest to taking over the Earth and I believe by now Optimus had little sympathy or patience for either.
Lockdown was threatening one of Optimus' only allies at that point. It was either he act or Cade died.
I think people say Optimus is a war criminal because of *how* he's killing, and not *why*... most of the time.
I cannot agree with statement about Demolisher situation. The Decepticon caused destruction simply because he was straight up running for his life. He and Sideways not doing anything at that point just running.
Wounding Demolisher would have been enough, but Optimus chose to freaking execute the decepticon.
Demolisher is far too big and dangerous to keep him alive. his size can alone cause destruction. Optimus needed to kill him in order to prevent further destruction
He's like a crusader knight. You think we are brutal now? Imagine back then when Melee weapons were the norm. Not ranged. And still, even then, we are always trying to hold out for the dream to be more than our struggles.
3:40 I imagine this scene was probably written when The Fallen (aka Megatronus prime) still had his decepticon symbol head, which makes the action a lot more sensical. If they had kept that (objectively better) design it would’ve been a much more powerful moment imo.
Optimus character in bayverse wasn't that far off at all, all of his actions are literally done in defence of humans and life in general, he doesn't kill decepticons because he likes it, but because they are so unjustifiably evil you have no other options. They enjoy evaporating people and exploding stuff and don't give a shit at all, you can't reason with them.
And the actual reason why he kills them so brutally is because it looks cool. I don't think it is that deep here. Even then, why not? They are robots, they often tank lethal looking stabs through whole body and shit, you only can kill them by ripping them apart.
I know that Bayverse Optimus Prime is not a psychopath or cold killer but his killing made him look like that. But for Demolisher, Optimus asks him if there's anything he wants to say, and he replies to Optimus "The Fallen shall rise again." that's Demolisher's last words. and for Age of Extinction, in my opinion, Optimus Prime is confused and angry at the same time when humans backstabbed him about the cause of the destruction of Chicago, the events that happened in Revenge of the Fallen, and the Decepticons' invasion.
bayverse optimum pride is just a realistic version of him. You just cant let go a murdereous psycho just because he wants "truce" when he already started a civil war, personally killed hundreds of your friends (while refusing to take POWs) and then killed thousands of humans you swore to protect. Its not a cartoon where no human dies and they go back to their corners for the next round (episode). Ripping Megatron's head off was perfectly justified (and it was cool!!)
also he was never a pacifist
and also demolisher, just like megatron, was too dangereous to be left alive
To me its just brutality ≠ psychopathy he is a savage fighter because the deceptions are already going for the kill so why should he especially when they dont stop
I think him killing megatron is justified for the mere fact, literally every villain has done this, Joker, green goblin, Lex, Venom have all offered to rule the world with the hero but the difference is prime shut him done and killed the evil war lord megatron🤷🏾♂️
9:38, yes, it is. He said “we need a truce”, he didn’t say “I surrender”. And even if Megatron were genuinely planning to go away then it would still be necessary to take Megatron prisoner. The sole question is “could Optimus manage to do that?” to which the answer is “probably not” which is why he was right to kill Megatron
also, demolisher killed a crap ton of autobots hiding out, and sideswipe was nearly one of them
He what
@@t-rex1019 killed lots of bot in the prequel comics.
Toy bio says otherwise
@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 they ain't canon like they say grindor is a tactician yet he didn't show it forest fight.
Upon rewatching the scene of Megs say "we Need a truce," I believe he was talking to Sentinel, as he immediately says right after, "All I wanted was to be back in charge." As he only helped prime with Sentinel because he was being subjugated and relegated to a servant rather than the leader he once was.
People who think that Optimus is a too brutal on his enemies need to rewatch the scene in DOTM when the Decepticons invade Chicago. They are infinitely worse
Prime has been in perpetual war for 10s of, maybe 100s of, millions of years. He still should be noble and can show no mercy when it calls for it, I think slowly miss handled prime's character through out each film.
He has PTSD, especially during the time when humans were killing autobots
8:44
Well that is a good argument, but another reason is that Optimus didn't see Megatron being sincere, in that scene Megatron doesn't apologize for the millions of years of war, death, pain and trauma that he put everyone on Cybertron through, and he still sounds very much like his evil snarky self, " where would you be without me?" That's not an apology for the millions of years of death and Pain you caused, " I just want to be back in charge" oh so you still want to conquer stuff, although he saved Optimus and asked for a truce, could you blame Optimus for not trusting him after everything he's done, perhaps a well more calm and collected Optimus like in Transformers prime or G1, would try to accept this appeal, but not this hardened broken Man broken soldier who just wants this conflict to end already, so in a certain point of view, I would say this public execution is justified to a degree.
True Optimus in my eyes isnt a psychopath
When the decepticons killed way too many innocent people
And you forgot to explain the 3rd Movie Problem where people say optimus let the people of chicago to die by the decpeticons
When in reality it was the humans fault to tell the autobots to leave
And optimus follows the human leaders so that humans from all over the world wont die it was a hard choice either follow or more people besides in chicago will die
To put it Simply; I can Deeply Empathise with Optimus Prime Because of the Circumstances and Experiences of Turmoil, Pain, And the Suffering He has Been through.
Optimus killing Sentinel will always be the one kill I will defend and say Optimus was valid in doing so, Sentinel betrayed his fellow Autobots, killed Ironhide, attacked the NEST base, threatened to kill Optimus, attempted to kill all the Autobots while they were in the ship and showed no remorse over it, aligned himself with Optimus’ worst enemy and took over an entire city, planed to bring Cybertron back and enslave the entire human race, teared off Optimus’ arm and despite all of that Optimus still tried to plead and reason with Sentinel, only to be kicked aside while Sentinel once again attempted to murder Optimus. Would you want to defend and say Optimus shouldn’t have killed Sentinel right then and there? He didn’t deserve to be taken away and live, there was no reason to trust him anymore after all he had done, he didn’t even apologise, only tried to excuse himself for why he betrayed those who trusted him, he didn’t listen when Optimus tried to plead, so Optimus didn’t either, and was definitely right in doing so, Sentinel deserved what he got no question.
One can argue that the initial pivot in Prime's actions is the forst fight in Revenge of the Fallen. Literally the last words he hears before being killed is "you're so weak" and then being resurrected to the fact that the first Decepticon is back and is ready to destroy the world.
"What would you be without me?"
"Time to find out"
One of Optimus Prime's coldest lines
8:15 i think it would be noteworthy to add in what sentinel said "You could never make the hard decisions."