Do Expensive Speakers Sound Better than Cheap Speakers?
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2019
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![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/48PxwspDvrE/mqdefault.jpg)
I got to be honest. You guys should have more than 99,000 subscribers. You guys put in the work that no one else does. There's a lot of review channels out there but you guys dig deep and do everything. And that is what makes you guys Above the Rest. Great job.
Generally speaking....YES. I'm a speaker designer and manufacturer from the uk. More expensive drive units have had more r&d put info them towards excelling within their bandwidth for low distortion and good power handling plus smooth off axis performance. It is NOT true to suggest bass extension needs lots of money...in fact thats nonsense. Cheap PA speakers can deliver bass but not refinement for example. A good speaker is the sum of it's parts. It needs good cabinet design, decent drive unit performance and good crossover design. Sacrifice just one of those things and you compromise the speaker.
In general terms you can have two of the following but rarely all three: bass extension, efficiency, compact size. This is the designers connundrum.
Resonance control in cabinets becomes more critical as size climbs. Rule of thumb for top speakers is that the cabinet can cost up to 70 to 80 % of the total of the speakers and that the crossovers slightly less than the drive units for quality designs which rarely include first order crossovers...the mark of a lazy design or a designer with little expertise who uses step response and phase arguments to justify poor design. Bandwidth overlap in 1st order has nothing good to recommend it period and despite the myth you cannot "hear" 2nd order or 3rd order if well designed plus these have distinct advantages for lower distorton, higher power handling and control of polar response.
What to look for at each price point includes type, number and layout of drivers, design of cabinet and of crossover. CoAxial 2 way passive...like Tannoy DC designs have much to recommend them but rarely in factory cabinets for older models and rarely with factory crossovers which is true of many designs. DC speakers give true point source so have almost cardiod non tilted field lobing patterns free of destructive comb filtering artefacts. Theres so much to the design of speakers that its impossible to sum it all up briefly but the first and second paragraphs above are a good rule of thumb.
So you wouldn't like Dynaudio speakers then?
@q1k9i3l0ä5å You'd get ok results due to using high end components, but to get the best results you'd need to design the crossover well and integrate the drivers to have even dispersion (polar response) etc.
You'd be best off using a "DIY" design by some experienced person (Eg Troels Graveson or a multitude of people on the Parts Express forums etc). Then you can build a cabinet to their specifications and have $10k speakers for $2k or something like that :)
what speakers do you recommend in a 5.2 system?
@q1k9i3l0ä5å This will date me. Went to the CES in Miami in the very late 1990's. Many exhibits were in the hotel. Walking down the hall, there was a large room with refreshments and I heard a grand piano playing. I could not see the piano from the hallway. I went into the room and to my left at the far end of the room was a grand piano, but nobody was playing it. Having never seen a player grand piano, I went over to see it, and directly on the floor slightly taller than the piano bench was a pair of speakers with cast cement faces. Never have I been fooled by speakers of an um-amplified acoustic instrument before. Fancy polished hardwood cabinets do not perform as well as cast cement. Recordings of a live piano almost always sound like speakers playing a recorded piano. In asking about the setup and the recording, the recording was made of that piano the day before the CES show. In a blind test I would not have been able to tell the difference. Due to the unique manufacturing and high weight, the speakers were well out of my price range. They require a forklift to move. I forgot the weight but they were over 500 LBS each. Very sound dead cabinets. Not bad for acoustic suspension 3 way speakers.
I did about a 5 minute study, and then threw the combo of speakers, the crossover, and cabinet wood sheets that I had purchased, all together, ASAP. I've been happy with these cheap speakers for the last 42 years. See imgur . com/a/aYRa0gX ( remove Spaces )
I've found the used market is a good way to buy something you otherwise could not afford.
@@LJRockstar Gently used, from a loving home, I presume.
Hopefully not w(h)or(e)n out...
Sorry LJ, had to make the joke no disrespect meant though.
@@LJRockstar You win the prize for best comment so far 🤣
That's for sure.
@@LJRockstar for how many camels?
I haven't upgraded my speakers in decades. Still using my Definitive Technologies BP10s as my fronts, and my Polk Audio 5 Jrs as my surrounds. Bought these when I was a kid in high school. I still dream about getting better speakers but I guess my mortgage and putting 2 kids through college have taken precedence. This channel keeps my dream alive. Thanks for posting!
Another great video for those who are not steeped in trying to impress with the name speaker manufacturers. My taste started with KLH back in the day moved on to Double Advents from there to Polk Modle 10 B now to Pioneer Elite 5 speaker Atmos system and a separate LRS 2 channel system. Value can be had across the board. Speakers are excellent today there are very few poor speakers let alone actually bad ones.
At 4:30 Gene makes a recommendation that I think is profound. Instead of trying to buy an expensive full range speaker, spend your money on a set with great midrange and treble and then add multiple subs to fill in the low range. THIS IS FANTASTIC ADVICE! and is free you youtube.
That is what I did years ago. I bought a pair of Polk Audio RT2000 speakers ($2000/pair) and supplemented the low end with a powered, 12" Velodyne sub. The Polks have their own amps that drive the two 8" woofers on each speaker and a passive 6.5" mid-woofer and 1" dome tweeters. The mids and highs are the only draw on the receiver, so they sound great. I get really great attack from the Polk subs and the Velodyne handles the really low frequencies. The setup cost me close to $3000, but I should never have to buy a set of speakers again. I've had this setup for about 20 years now and I'm still impressed by the sound stage it produces.
I am now a subscriber ! I have been watching your videos on cables which I liked and thought really brought the segment down to earth ! I saw this come up and said let's see what he has to say about speakers as there are major differences with speaker quality , sound and design. You hit it on the head ! There are great budget speakers out there that offer awesome value and I have pursued and owned many in the past . I just purchased some Forte 4s which taxed my budget and work great in my PS audio separates system ( which some would say are still budget) and made me realize you do get what you pay for . The comments on diminishing returns are true but if I was rich would I look, listen and possibly purchase ? Probably !! Best thing I have enjoyed is steaming music which sounds great and has really opened the door to my music library and enjoyment which is the real goal !
Hey Gene , Good audio talk , i have bought 16 sets of speakers this year so far for my audio channel, and about 12-13 different amps and pre-amps , And your right budget gear has gotten so much better ! I remb in 1997 I bought a yamaha RX-396 reciever that was 599.00 new and Klispch KG 2.5s that were 499.00 new , and now i just got in a new integrated amp to review from England thats 499.00 new with an upgradable power amp that helps double up the power output for 399.00 and i must tell ya I'm blown away at its performace my yamaha AS-801 899.00 nor my Pioneer Elite Sx-N30 799.00 doesn't even come close to this new intergrated amp sound signature And speaker wise the KEF Q-100 Pioneer Fs52s and Polk LSIM 703s for under 500.00 is a steal !!
I'm still using Infinity Primus 250 towers in my home theater. I bought those suckers like 14 years ago. Still sound great in my dedicated theater with 2 subs
I love RBH! I live just down the street and have worked with them. I built a 3 way active front stage in my car with their Q basket 4" beryllium driver and respectable Vifa tweeter.
Amazing sound quality.
I have the Dayton Audio MK442T's and they sound amazing,the base from them without a subwoofer is incredible.
Thanks, you're always sensible, informative and zero snake oil.
Just updated pretty much my entire system. PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC, PS Audio S300 power amp and Monitor Audio Silver 300 speakers. There's 6 G's right there. Still need to upgrade my TT and my CD Transport.
I have the Sony Core series (center, towers, bookshelfs, sub) and can vouch they are an amazing value, especially if you pick them up on sale. They don't look expensive but wow they sound nice. I sent back Andrew Jones speakers that couldn't keep up with them. Congrats to all that have found speakers they are really happy with!
I'm still enjoying my Infinity SM series (front & centre) from 1997 along with Mirage surrounds.
Front speakers $550, surrounds $250 and they're great!
Great sound for the money back in the day. Wished I'd held on to my SM 122s & 62s!
I’m quite thrilled with my GedLee speakers in my HT room..night and day from the speakers I’ve owned in the past.
From my experience as an audio consumer the laws of diminishing returns is key. You pay £5000 for a pair of well designed speakers and you will need to spend substantially more to get a significant improvement. Spend £500 pounds on a pair and you are still in the region where spending a little more gets you significant improvements. Not forgetting that if your amp is not up to the job your speakers will under perform regardless of how much you paid for them!
I totally agree that 5000 is when things begin to slope down on improvement. Up to 5k is eons improved. Up to 10k, it's defintelly better but not 2x better. And I'd put my absolute cap at 20k, with the note that they are better; but not night and day compared to the 5 and 10k speakers.
I really like the hulky Definitive Technology BP2000 towers, CLR2000 center, and BPVX surrounds. I bought them used but the rear firing mid woofers sound superb with the delay bouncing off the wall. The fact that each tower has a 15 active sub built in to not tax the amplifier is very desirable to me.
Running RSL's CG25 crossed over at 80hz and powering them with the Outlaw Model 5000. I consider those speakers a value for what you get.
My buddy gave me a pair of 1964 fisher XP-1A speakers, and wasn’t really expecting that good of a sound .Hooked them up and couldn’t believe how good the sound was . Out of retirement and back to work for these old speakers!
Hey Jean another good video, now is definitely a good time for speakers, you look at the stuff Andrew Jones has designed especially for Pioneer and Elac you can get into audi o with really good sounding speakers for between $120 - $350. The used market is also good if you know what you're looking for.
I am happy with my Q-Acoustics setup (floorstanders, bookshelf, centre and sub).
I'm 42, as a kid the best speakers I could afford were Boston Acoustics HD5s. I remember going to buy my HD5s and the salesperson recommended I step up to a pair of Rock Solids, an indoor/outdoor compact speaker made for Rock Solid by B&W. They clearly sounded better than the HD5s I ended up buying and enjoying for years, but the Rock Solids were $100 more than my budget allowed. I still own my HD5s btw, and they still sound great.
Recently I had the opportunity to buy a near mint condition set of Rock Solids (in black with stands / mounts) and they sound so good! They weren't cheap, a testament to how good they were for their time. My 12 year old Monitor Audio Silver S2's sound warmer, but I guess that's to be expected since they're a newer quality speaker, twice the price and larger. Maybe it's just the nostalgia of owning a pair of speakers I couldn't have when I was a kid, but I love the Rock Solids. I think they're an example of a speaker that sounded better than some really expensive rivals 20 years ago.
Bought a pair of Cerwin Vegas about 20yrs ago for about $500 that I still like. I'm sure there's much better out there now. I live in an apartment now so I can't do much cranking of the volume. Don't use my sub much nowadays either for the same reason. But the speakers have great bass by themselves.
i've had the Infinity Primus 360s for a dozen years and still happy with them. but you're right about the maximum output. you turn it up too much, and they start getting muddy sounding. i have them in a 17' x 14' room so they do the job very well because i never really want to turn them up to the point where they get muddy sounding. thanks for the video!
I use PV PA speakers with my HiFi stuff .
My friend spent over $10k and just couldn't believe how much clear and clean my PV PA speakers sounds with my Sony system and with my stereo system . Oh yes he's got big money and like me he loves music.
I know alot about sound systems the audiophiliacs will not tell you about they just want you to buy all these high price for our name speakers and big names speakers with big price but all they are is actually PA speakers . And you don't need all these amplifiers they got amplifiers for each speaker mine does the drive with one system and this is clear and loud as hell.
I have a pair of Mission M72 ( or something) bookshelf speakers that I find amazing, with a cloth tweeter (I think this is important) since I removed the grills i had to add an EQ (mac os developper feature AU Lab) to put a little roll off for the trebles (some call that "warmth") and also correct the room resonances I have. I have a Celestion powered subwoofer, but depending on where I stand and what I listen, it's switched off. The amp was a Yamaha, and is now a SMSL AD18 (from one to the other sounded like removing another grill). With those speakers very high efficiency, there is way too much power for that room, it's a small living room, with a lot of furniture. When watching cinema, I have a pin perfect timing on the impacts, and so I will never look for any multi channel system. It's just awesome.
You have explained the hi-if cost variables very well !
I am eyeballing the Elac Debut 2.0 speakers as my upgrade to my Micca MB42X speakers. Just recently picked up an ifi Zen DAC and that has made a notable impact to sound quality. I have Andrew Jones's first Pioneer Budget speakers (metal mesh speaker grills) in the full 5.1 configuration and they are terrific! I would love to drive the speakers to their full potential but my neighbors would likely have an issue with that :). As far as my limit on how much I would spend on speakers really depends.... I am willing to spend more if it really is better. Problem is many purchases have to be done blindly as there is no way to sample certain gear live. Currently my real limit is somewhere in the 300 per pair of speakers and there are so many to choose from. 80 dollars for the Micca speakers yielded some amazing sound so I am sure I will start to notice the diminishing returns once I get into the 1000 dollar a pair speaker range.
Excellent explanation-very informative-thanks. I’ve liked and subscribed!
I just finished modding my Infinity 250 towers and center speaker with peel and seal and 4"'s of rigid fiberboard. Very painstakingly difficult but it was worth it.Especially the center speaker.If you close your eyes you would swear someone is in the room when it plays.
I bought a pair of Acoustic Research AR91 floor standing speakers in the mid 1970's, I was 19 and they cost £350 which was a LOT of money,about 3 months wages, they are still going strong today... They were very heavy 3 way speakers and had a 12" bass speaker. Any one owned a pair of these?
I have the JBL Studio 5 series, the Studio 590's with the 520C center channel. Two grand retail, bought them on sale through JBL for a grand. $350 for the center. UNBELIEVABLE speakers!! Love em and will never get rid of em! Greg Timbers last design too...
Greg Timbers is a speaker designing legend! I have the Studio 530's, and i'm blown away since I purchased them a few years ago!
my record playing system has changed over the years but my speakers have not. I have always been really happy with them. I have had the same Heybrook HB3 speakers for 37 years!
A lot goes into the process of choosing speakers. I have changed up over the years based on many factors. The two factors that really drive me to change speakers are music taste and listening room. When I lived in an apartment I was not allowed to turn my speakers up so a pair of large floor speakers would have been a waste.
At one point I used to listen to lots of oldies such as Motown and Philly soul. Then I found myself jamming to hip hop. Then it was on to jazz. After that dance and electronic music and at one point reggae.
So there I was choosing speakers based on my recent preference for music. When I focused mostly on jazz I did not need slamming bass. Some speakers excelled better than others.
Nowadays I have a pair of custom made speakers that are for my music listening. I use a separate system for home theater.
Excellent video. I recently bought some Klipsch R-51M bookshelf speakers (MADE IN CHINA!) that are very good, but not great. The mids and highs just don't sound right. They do horns really well, but drums sound horrible. I actually prefer the mids and highs on my tiny little M-Audio AV30 near field monitors, which are a fraction of the size of the Klipsch. I have a very small space for my stereo setup, so I have to keep speakers as small as possible. The R-51M's will do for now, but I think I'd really like a small bookshelf speaker with a ribbon tweeter in the future, which will certainly mean more money.
What I think might work better for me are the Wharfedale EVO4.1 bookshelves, or something from Martin Logan. Now we are moving from the $150/pair I paid to $700 to $850 a pair. We'll see what happens....but yeah, usually more expensive speakers really do sound better.
My price point was $1,800 CDN in 1985 and for that price I bought a pair of Celestion Ditton 66 Series 2 and I never looked back. I still enjoy every notes that comes from them.
Suggestion: A Video explaining speaker distortion and what you can do to minimize its effect on sound.
Thanks for sharing.
He speaks the truth regarding output. I had the Pioneer SP-FS52 towers and matching center in my home theater and they had a great sound. the only downside is they compressed over a certain volume threshold. They would only go so loud and that was it. Never had a speaker do this before.
Not always. Around the year 2000 I bought a cheap shiny plastic Pioneer XR-A6800 stereo with two bookshelf speakers. 8 inch woofers, 2.5 inch midrangers, 1 inch tweeters and a single capacitor as crossover. But maybe by pure chance they sound awesome. Full, airy realistic sound with a lot of bass extention. Still proudly use them in a tv setup till they perish.
Do a AB test.
I have a pair of Fluance HFS bookshelf speakers that have a great sound, especially when it comes to music, I have heard things that I never heard in familiar songs. They're not quite as impressive when watching a movie, but they are a great improvement over the Polk T-15s I was using as front speakers.
I’ve got the Pioneer/Andrew Jones “bouncy house” Atmos speakers for the fronts, they work great for my tiny rental apartment. And the rest of the series for subs, center and surrounds. It’s great for gaming!
Ross In short, yes. Is it the preferred method? Probably not. They work in the same way “surround” channels work on a soundbar.
But, for my tiny rental apartment it’s fine. I have all my speakers at ear level, and often times, I hear sounds to the left, or right of the speakers, or even from above on not Atmos audio. I think that has more to do with sound staging than anything else, though.
I have 2 sets of Klipsch - Reference Series 5-1/4" with a center channel of similar size.
Was honestly scared to buy them since the price was so low.
But your website said good things about them.
Paired it with an Onkyo TX-NR676.
Except for the bluetooth being too slow for video l couldn't be happier with the set up.
I have a sound ordinance passive 12" sub powered by an old sharp err Panasonic amp
Try the klipsch reference premier instead it might make you return yours
Perfect video.. *thumbs up* . I have 10k speakers from b&w.. i think they sound descent. The main difference i have personally noticed is "clarity" of sound. The other thing I've learned recently is learning to treat a room (acoustic padding, etc). Apparently a pair of good speakers can be improved by simply removing echo, cancellation issues, adding square padding underneath (e.g. auralex isolation pads), positioning. These latter techniques might sound obvious to some, but i never realized how badly my living 'echoed'. I am opting to first squeeze out as much quality sound out of my towers before running out to buy new ones. My breaking point for cost would be 15k for a pair of floor towers R/L. Something like the D3s would be my next goal.
Interesting bit about the muddled sound at high volumes. All my speakers had this, to a certain degree, until my latest ones. I was very quick to notice this the first times I cranked them up. And they have really good crossovers and good dampening. The other main difference from my former speakers, is the clarity and detail.
I think my breaking point is probably around $15-20K, for speakers. But I suspect I'll be happy with my current ones for a long time.
Great videos!! You know your stuff!!
How do you rank infinity Beta 50s??
Thanks!
I use KEF LS50s (ports filled with the supplied foam stuffer for tighter cone control) and an Emotiva preamp sending the signal to a 2-way electronic crossover. Once the bass is separated out, the treble enters an "antique" Carver T-35 amp (350 watts per channel) and outputs to the KEFs. (Bass portion of the signal goes to a pair of sealed box SVS subs.)
The KEFs excel in detailing at sound levels that completely fill the listening room, levels that generate complaints by otherwise friendly humans who share our dwelling.
A pair of these now goes for $900 on Amazon, which puts them at the upper end of "cheap" speakers. They are elegantly designed with a splendidly polished black finish and exposed rose gold coax drivers which, coupled with their small size, makes them quite spouse friendly, with exception of the decibel levels mentioned above.
They do not generate very low frequency information and sealing the ports exacerbates the issue, but that is easily fixed by the SVS subs. I have two but think one would work pretty good, especially if its volume control was tweaked to hike up the output levels. Set close to the wall, the sealed subs generate sounds below 20 hz while staying "clean", like the sound that comes from the LS50s.
I would say generally yes but there is a lot of overlap and there are some really stand out performers in each class and price range. Price is definitely not an iron clad guarantee of sonic performance. I would agree with the previous comment that 2nd hand can provide a huge bang for buck, providing you buy something that was an exceptional performer in it's day at the right price and you are prepared and able to get any needed repairs done, including XO rebuild. Caps typically don't last well, get good ones! I generally go this rout but I don't have ideal listening space. I love my Polk 2B's and Proac EBT's but my Brother's Legacy towers are obviously much more high end than my vintage gear. Still, for the price, the vintage gear is extremely nice to listen with and there is a certain satisfaction and interest messing about tweaking it. Yes, I could just buy some really nice high end stuff, but that just gets me to the end of the road & where's the fun in that, I'd probably listen to all the recording a few times and then no more. The fun is trying different things and discovering new sounds. Achieving your ultimate goal is the death of interest.
I have been using the same 5.1 speakerset for over 25 years now from Bose, still worth the money that I spend on it. It might not be perfect for nowadays standards but for me it's more then good enough. The set has survived 4 receivers :)
Most of my system is built from refurbished Martin Logan. My center is a Martin Logan 40 that was on eBay damage for 300, sounds fine!!
My sub, amp, processor are only thing I bought new
I have slot of HTD equipment. Have you ever checked out there stuff?
I have a lync12 whole house system and slot of there top in ceiling and walls speakers for the zones and home theater.
I just bought two pair of Elac speakers B6.2 and B5.2. They had a good sale and I got 35% off. So far I'm really happy.
I'm just debating on upgrading from a pair of Polk monitor 70s that I love so much not sure what can come close for they money though
I have a surround setup with BIC America speakers. They're OK and I have been thinking of upgrading but I realize my acoustics are really bad. Too much glass, door openings. I have another space I am gearing up to clear and use that may be more suitable. After that and some experiments with layout I will hopefully decide where to upgrade.
I was planning on getting Revel f208s/c208 ($5k/$2k) for LCR until Revel announced the f226be ($7k) and c426be ($4.5k) towers and center channel. The beryllium line should be a huge step up in performance for only a 40% increase in cost for the towers, although the center channel is a 2.5x increase in price. Given that the center channel is the most important speaker in home theater, I think it's worth the extra cost, so I'm going for the 226be/426be upgrade. Plus, the WAF gives a nod to the much smaller footprint of the 226be over the f208.
Great topic! Always a conundrum for me. You provide a great service for the (me) ill informed. I have a set of towers for years now, Bose 901’s on top of my Klipschorns. The 901’s are out of my garage system, it’s a remodel thing. The klipsch still a solid sound for me. Probably better sounding speakers today just by your examples of technology. I use an old Macintosh 4300v for receiver, sooo...yeah. BTW iPhone....5. I think the investment in room acoustics and calibration to get the best out of what you have is the key. I judge things on the F-1 or Trophy truck scale, both are outside my wheelhouse but if I had an unlimited budget...look out!
In speaker reviews, probably the most common phrase is something like "...performs like it costs twice as much" but I have yet to ever read "performs at its price level" or "performs like a speaker that costs 1/2 as much." It's always that first phrase.
"performs at its price level but the competition is tough" is a popular phrase though, because of the "...performs like it costs twice as much" ones I guess
Polk LS 90's... originally had the LS 70 and Polk allowed me to get full credit for a trade up to the LS 90 and I never regretted doing it. Still some of the nicest looking and best sounding speakers. I have a Harmon Kardon and Carver pushing the sound out of the front two and just the Harmon running the surround and center. I'm lately looking at other newer amps, but for what??? 14.2 channels? Who needs it. I'm happy with 5.1 THANX
Pretty much spot on. While spending more does often mean better, it doesn't always. There are several manufacturers now producing excellent speakers for budget prices. And then there's at least one company (no naming names) selling so-so speakers for for high prices because they put most of their investment into marketing instead of R&D now. The used market can yield excellent value as well.
For 30 years now I have upgraded about 100 loudspeakers from the cheapest to the low-fi point and I can tell you this: with a decent crossover, some damping,and sometimes retuning of the ports, most of the cheapest speakers start to sound close to Hi-fi products. Thank you for this excellent channel, I really appreciate the topics you brought and the content is truthful yet respectful, which is a nice touch in the audiophile world.
Great explanation of this subject. Totally agree with this guy. Very precise in his presentation of this.
Firstly, I've never spent big money on speakers or HiFi. I inherited my Heybrook HB1s and installed brand new original replacement drivers for £150. But this year I'm making some upgrades, and am probably going to buy a pair of Harbeth C7ES3'S after auditioning them and being astonished by how much I loved the sound.
Before any discount they'll cost around £2,500. I genuinely plan on these being the first and last pair of speakers I'll ever buy.
All of the factors you mentioned are reasons for me buying these speakers. They're made from expensive materials with drivers designed and built for the crossovers, for the best integration. Harbeth's origins as a company started from exploring ways of using better materials to make drivers from, when their founder led a team in the BBC research dept. So that's the sort of technology you pay for. Most budget speakers nowadays also tend to have little mid-band transparency which is what I love about my Heybrooks. I'd have to spend upwards of a thousand pounds to better them anyway.
Wow Alex. My very first pair of speakers were Heybrook HB1s. I really loved that transparent midrange. Got Magnepans now which are awesome as long as you have the room to position them right.
I ve heard a toon of speaker and i allways go for Tannoy speakers, yamaha recievers and svs subwoofers. To me its the perfect combination and i cant explain why, i just love it..
Which is why Norberto that I use Tannoy HPD and MG drive units in many of my designs most noteably the RFC Canterbury loudspeaker...the design endures because they can connect emotionally so well with music and have superb dynamics but rarely in poorly made resonant factory cabinets. The magic really starts when you drop them into large enough and very stiff high mass low resonance designs. Simply wonderful when done well!
My Yamaha RX-V3800 has gone over a decade and still kicks butt. I had to desolder and re-solder in a new ~$2 part, which I found was pretty common and there were RUclips videos on the subject. Saved me going for a new reciever. But anyway, it does everything I need and unless I'm being silly with the volume control for too long never has a hiccup. Unfortunately the only issue is clipping from my speakers putting the reciever into and protect. I have Biamped front L/R Bowers & Wilkins System 683. Anything over -5dB is normally enough to shit the tin with almost all styles of music I listen to. Classical music no problems. Movies/TV is no the problem due to not having it as loud, -20dB is the max due to mliving with mt partner and 9yo daughter. Weak lol
@@phizzle24 ahahahah we audiophiles should have a seperste house from everyone just to listen to music/movies.. i feel the same..
@@nvc. we ended up buying an established home, mainly due to not having to "dress" the home i.e. floor coverings, window treatment etc but my ideal custom build involved building on a slope with a theatre room behind the garage on the ground floor to better insulate it so I could go nuts and not bother the neighborhood. Instead, they have to listen to what I am listening to 😂
Great Post. I would add you can find brands that are well engineered and perform as well as the esoteric companies. While they are not exactly cheap, they are not at stratospheric prices either. Tekton, Salk, Golden Ear, Klipsch, and Polk offer a lot of great bang for the buck speakers, that are on par with Focal, Revel, B&W, Wilson's you name it. With these, if you like blue collar brands, you can get into something that has great treble, excellent mid-range, and bass response that extends below 30hz, without spending $20k.
You have to be careful with these kinds of blanket statements. Polk, Klipsch, Golden Ear, and Tektons do not have any speakers comparable with the top to lines From Revel. Revel is a special company making unusually well engineered speakers. Salk sound doesn’t have some comparable speakers but their prices for the most comparable speakers are not that much less. An SS6M is pretty similar to a Revel M126be but they are only separated by $400. Less for comparable finishes.
@@PoesAcoustics Truth be told, I hate it when folks spout off how a $3K pair of brand X speakers sounds better than a pair costing $30K. That being said, my point is being taken out of context. I never stated these brands are substitutes, only that they can perform as well. Nor did I state that an top of line Tekton can compete with a Revel. Gods No! Need to keep things in the price versus performance realm. Recently, I auditioned Kanta 3 and a Tref. $12k versus $9.5k. I liked the sound out of the Golden Ear over the Focal. Its sound was not the same but on par. Equally enjoyable and involving but the Tref brought you deeper into the performance. Its sound was not as constricted, and overall, had a more believable presentation. The thing with your notables, is you pay a premium for that brand name and its proprietary engineering. Such things do not always equate to an significant benefit. Especially in the sub $20k category. Salks may not use custom in house drivers of a Revel Studio 2. Even so, the SS9.5 I would argue are no less well engineered, nor inferior to them despite costing about $5k less. Different? Absolutely. Now when you talk top tier speakers above $20k. We agree. I would add at that price-point, they all tend to be arguably special, ultra engineered products. Revel, Focal, Wilson and others put a lot of cost is no object technologies into their product that make them special and extremely expensive. However, I do think you can find others makes and models that can give you great performance akin to what they can do for not quite as much money. That is why I am a big fan of what you and Gene contribute to the community. Be well.
I’ve got Andrew Jones speakers (5.2.1) and an entry level Pioneer Elite receiver. Great system and it costs less than a D Atmos enabled sound bar.
For a little bit more then the low cost speakers you're talking about you could get the new baby magnepans, you can always add a sub to each at speaker level later.
I have 2 pair of MG12s + 2 xPolk dsw pro 550 subs in a large finished basement room. Yes for two Channel and multi channel.
I have the space now for the bigger Maggies but I'm happy with my setup. Plus I had to buy a new car a few years ago 😂
Do you prefer artcoustic or B&W for in wall home theater? Thanks you. Great show sir !
Have you ever heard, or even heard of, EFE ( Ed Frias Enterprises) speakers? Thoughts?
I really enjoy your channel. Thanks! Gary in southern Indiana
Thanks for giving real world people who love the hobby and the new comers real hope .
There were some good points raised .But back in the day of me selling Hifi I would always qualify my answer to such a question with "it all depends" . What is the customers present kit? What don't they like? What are they expecting to achieve with new kit? Sometimes the answer wasn't in the speaker but things like the positioning, their room layout even the speaker cable. Yes I occasionally lost a sale there and then. But I usually gained a long term customer. And at least one of them returned to spend and spend big. If the rest of the kit is good then by all means upgrade your speakers. Otherwise look into other areas first as speakers only allow reproduction of what is there already.
I have Dali Epicons in Walnut ... they look and sound stunning ... 6’s and Vokal Center up front and 2’s on the rears. Around £18,000 worth I won’t be changing these anytime soon. My advice to anyone wanting hi end performance for midrange price is buy second hand ... let the first(or even second) guy take the hit so you don’t have to.
Great review!
I bought a set of used Tekton Double Impacts SE for $1000.00 and paired with an Outlaw RR2160 and I love them.
Yes the only way to go these days used.i bought used Polk lsim707 s ...for $1,300.
I have almost 3 grand in for my ...
Pioneer Elite SC95 Receiver
2 paradigm 90p v3 towers with built-in powered sub
1 paradigm 90p v3 center
2 monitor 70s polks rears
4 kickers for overhead
How are they now?
When I bought my last Stereo I had recently gotten divorced. But I was determined to have a nice system. I started doing my homework and read about Dr. Floyd Toole and his work at the NRC and Harmon audio. I new he had involvement with the Prelude, Intermezzo lines of speakers for Infinity. I looked at the Interlude line because that was what I could afford and knew the technology was trickled down from the higher priced lines. I managed to score a pair of IL50S for $468 from Ebay's Harmpn outlet. Paired them with the IL10s and IL25C. Those added another $275. Loved Carver and picked up a AV705X and I had a Rotel pre-amp. Two years ago my Sons bought me a Marantz av7005, the sound of that system has only gotten better especially with the Marantz. The Carver is a beast at 125 watts channel. You really have to know what you're buying. That's my story of cheap speakers
I own speakers that not many people are familiar with, Aerial Acoustics. They do 0 advertising. Imaging is very important to me and the AA’s are fantastic at imaging and everything else.
I’ve built my 5.3.4 dedicated home theater based 85% on Audioholics videos and articles. Thanks a ton!!!
That's an awesome setup , my setup is similar 5.2.4 ...
Pioneer Elite SC95
2 paradigm 90p v3 towers with built-in powered sub
1 paradigm 90p v3 center
2 monitor 70s polks rears
4 kickers for overhead
I paid a grand for all the speakers, I dont think the price was bad at all
I got a pair of new JBL 305 mkii for $240 CAD, combined them with the sub from my Logitech Z623 ($50 used) and with the APO EQ I can get pretty flat sound and a nice range from low 20hz to 20khz. More than enough for my office and I really like it for music, movies or games. I'm not sure there's anything else for $250-500 CAD that would sound noticeably better and have this range so that's my limit.
My first budget 5.1 set was of speakers was Flaunce speakers. They are an Canadian speaker brand. I have since replace the front three speaker to Dif Tech for the center and R & L towers and they sound amazing. The back two speakers are now what I used to use for my R & L speaker towers from Flaunce. I also have two in wall speaker that I used for my ATMOS or 7.1 when its not an ATMOS movie. I use an Onkyo tx-nr686 to power my speakers. Would you have any recommendations for me. Thank you.
I purchased the klipsch ref 820 on the Crutchfield sale, good enough for me $500 for the pair was reasonable.
I am enjoying mine too. I set the avr front speaker to small and pair them with twin subs, crossover set to 50. They seem to reveal a lot more of the cd mastering process --some cds have big bass signals and others a lot less so. I set the EQ a peg or two below 0. They give me/the room a fuller bigger sound than the Andrew Jones floor speakers. Size wise, I think I could put the 2 Jones floor speakers inside one 820 so that might have something to do with it.
Could you do an overview on YG Acoustics? They seem to have alot of interesting inovations i don't see in the high end stereo world.
Their tweeter has a metal frame under the silk dome, dunno if it actually does anything, but I think you'd have interesting insights on their products.
How are the RBH Impression bookshelf's paired with a good sub?
I'm willing to spend insane amounts of money on speakers...My bank account on the other hand isn't...
genesis777 you and your bank account need couples therapy.
welcome to my world
You need to teach your bank account who is the boss.
lol
You seem to have the same problem I have.
At the end of the day, I can't live inside a speaker box. This "roof over the head" thing is pretty important.
Got my current speakers through Ebay.
Polk RTi12 as mains
Paradigm Monitor 11 in series as Centres
Tannoy 638 for Surrounds
2 x Martin Logan 8inch subs. Rear
2 x Paradigm PS1000 subs. Front
Denon Amp
Joints jumping. 😀
I have a pair of old Kef 105 speakers.
I love the sound but if I was to update them - what would you recommend?
And the kit of book monitor audio bronze 2/1/centre is a good choice for the money ? Because all people love this price+performance.
Went from b&w 804 to a pair of dm302 with tot Infiniti subs secondhand for the amount of 60 euro's and they are very good. No regrets
Thank you for the video! For DJ, I've got a Yamaha Stagepas 600i set of 10''speakers with 1,4'' horn that has a suspicious crossover: on 2,8kHz! Just for matters of comparison, JBL puts the crossover on 1,8kHz over the two way PAs.. I have got a question about my set up: the Stagepas 600i included mixer has a output for a opcional active subwoofer that applies a crossover in 120Hz, the speakers woofer will play from 120Hz to 2,8kHz and horns above 2,8kHz right? the sub will receive signal from 120Hz below. I plug it to my subwoofer JBL PRX 818 18'' though the specs of frequency response are from 35Hz to 87Hz. I am not enjoying the sound, I think there is something missing, I think it is not a subwoofer problem, maybe I should sell the Yamaha Stagepas and buy JBL PRX correspondend speakers line and brand? Even if I use the built in Subwoofer 80HzHiPass, the 10 inch Stagepas dont play well under 80Hz and 120Hz. I think I will need a 12 inch speaker PRX, correct? Should I Buy PRX 812 speaker or PRX 815 speaker (12 inch /15 inch)?
Dear gene it would be great if you can educate us more about the importance of phase and time alignment between drivers in one cabinet for example when designing a 3 or 4 way speakers in a tower cabinet and how that can affect the off-axis not only horizontally but in my opinion more importantly vertically in a room, a dramatic change in imaging and bass while sitting and standing. and is there any real advantage in that regard by designing consentric or coaxial over spreading more drivers in vertical shape? Is it true that consentric design results in a better blend between the mid and the high frequency drivers especially when listening in near field (small rooms) ?
Thank you very much Gene and audioholics for all your efforts for educating us.
MICHEL KHACHADOURIAN this would be a really big topic to unpack. I’ll talk to gene about it. I think it would have to be a longer video with some time to put together some comparative data.
The quick answer is that phase alignment is more important than absolute time alignment. At the moment the research does not strongly support the importance of time alignment. A perfect speaker should be time aligned, but other factors are far more important. Often time aligning a speaker neglects these other factors.
Often time aligned speakers are only really time aligned in a particular position. Time alignment wouldn’t enhance vertical or horizontal dispersion. That is unrelated to time alignment or phase alignment. The perfection of the dispersion over a range of angles, vertical or horizontal, really is about the drivers dispersion and match between mid and tweeter.
@@PoesAcoustics thank you very much Matthew
I use a pair of Snell Type E Series II's. Paid just under $900 for the pair in the late 1980's. Unfortunately, they are temporarily retired until I can re-foam them.
I do find it interesting, though, that AudioNote (United Kingdom) still uses the design - except that they cost a lot more now than mine cost me.
What do you think of Vandersteen speakers specifically the Model 2Ce Signature II ?
my upper limit is about 11000 hz lower limit is lower than 50hz but as the lowest note of a piano is 50ish Hertz so not much music is lower than that. My Cabasse go 50 to 20something and Im happy as a clam. Response don't mean much at my age but clarity and sound stage still do and they really deliver on that, they go for 1700 each
Just bought my first ever set of speakers and and amplifier. I bought Polk t15's an a cheap little fosi class d amp. Much better than my tv speaker and that's all I was looking for really, and to stream music via Bluetooth. With the little knowledge I have a made the best educated decision I could on this setup. Any basic advice for a beginner when looking at home audio gear, as far as what types of things to look at when making my considerations?Thanks in advance.
Point of diminishing returns... Model 5's here, I think that is it for me. Old school sound is what I was searching for, BIG sound and these speakers and the Denafrips Ares II and their Iris DDC took me there. I cannot see me going back to a bookshelf, other than for the garage, where my Klipsch reside.
Big fan of Vandersteen 3a's Walked into a showroom and could not tell where the sound was coming from. Reminded me of the EPI's 50's when they would put them in front of a big cabinet speaker for show. Also liked the Dahlquist DQ-10 's. If I ever win the lottery I'd buy 7 Vandersteen 5's and build a house around them.
Nice, been following that brand since I was a teen. Gotta get some in for review someday.
I'm still running JBL Northridge from mid 2000's, mainly because I've always liked the sound they produce (and replacing this 7.2.4 with new stuff is going to cost a wad). You think I can last a little longer or will I see the difference if I can only spend a couple grand to upgrade? :(
What is your take on Airmotive towers? Price vs performance.
I just got the Polk LSiM 707´s on sale and I´m blown away at how good they are.
Alfredo Tinoco what amp do you use. I got the 705 using it with my Yamaha RN803. Can’t get it to sound right.
@@jordantewari I´m using an older Marantz 7000 avr. I did have to look into the settings and set them as large speakers, no subwoofer, no surrounds or center channel, because I forgot that with the initial configuration I had them set as front small speakers so they were not producing the deep bass that everyone comments. Now they are working great with deep bass and very clear mid and high. I´m casting spotify premium via chrome cast audio using a digital cable and most of the music sounds great, perhaps a few older records lack a bit of bass. Hope this helps.
My sweet spot in life is bottom of the high end(of mass produced consumer products), on an end of year sale. So I have some B&W 683s and Hsu VTF that I have had for 10-12 years or so.
I used to be a Boston Acoustics fan for 25 years, roughly. That is all you could find in my house. I usually bought the lower end models, but also had the legendary A100s, and they sounded good to me. One day on eBay, I snagged a Martinlogan Vision Soundbar for under $250, which was meant to be a replacement for my Boston Duo-i radio, where the amp burnt out. It blew me away and now I have the MartinLogan LX16s, and other motion series as well as the dynamo subs. Boston can't touch ML for nearly every sound metric and quality. Boston out, ML in!
What is the sweet spot price when it comes to diminishing returns in your opinion?
I love Dynaudio, and I have been quite impressed with many models under $5000 U.S.D. / pair.
My forever speaker is out of my reach at the moment. It is the MBL RADIALSTRAHLER 101E MKII.They are by far THE BEST speakers I've ever heard for home use.