@@tallpaull9367 I've been around the block, had different architectures, technologies, approaches. Designed many an amp. Made my own serious A/B remote switcher more than forty years ago. There's probably fifty amplifiers in my house. Thing is, you can't even talk to people about this stuff. Too much black magic and snake oil in their neurons. I picked up an xs1200 refurbished for a theatre sub project I was developing and made the mistake of trying it on my main system, in place of my large monoblock amps that are fully complementary-symmetry and fully balanced input to output, power response into the am radio band, couple thousand watt difficult to move power supplies, biased to idle at five hundred watts each. Which clearly any audiophile would know sounds better without even trying but boy was I in for a schooling. Those monster amps are still around here somewhere... 🤔 And I don't really need the lfe subwoofers. I don't use the movie surround sound anymore either. My listening experience is better than ever and I've been an audiophile for over fifty years.
I recently upgraded my amp from an older multi channel class A/B amp with PS Audio Stellar M1200 hybrid amps. The improvement was dramatic and has brought a new level of enjoyment to my home theater. I was on the fence about class D, but when done well they can be truly fantastic. I almost went with a more budget friendly option, but sacrificed getting more gear for better gear and I’m happy I did. We all wish we could afford the really high end stuff, but finding good equipment for a reasonable budget, by comparison, is a true blessing.
I run a set of Class D monoblocks, the PS Audio Stellar M700's, and I'm very happy with them. I use them to drive a pair of Magnepan 1.7i's; a speaker that "traditionally" people recommend Class AB for, but these amps really make them sing.
I have a 5000 for my 4 atmos ceiling speakers and the 7000x for my main 7 channels. Aweaome amps and a great deal for the money. $1400 for both. Now I just need a HDMI 2.1 prepro. Marantz AV7706 or whatever it will be called.
Those are build by ATI , I got the bigger brother 7 channel these amps have been rebranded crestron, outlaw, cinepro , monolith Pretty much all the same amps .. Cannot go wrong with these tanks, my weights 97 pounds class a/b
Recently I tried some different speakers, and I was reminded how the amp/speaker match so important. Some amps will perform better on some speakers than others. it’s impossible to say which is absolutely best at a price because it’s so dependant on what you are driving.
My number one hate of the high end stereo amps is NO TONE CONTROL!!! Add a tone control but just add a bypass for those that think it is detrimental to the sound output. I don’t want to just listen to audiophile albums I want to listen to albums I like and when those albums are recorded bright or low then I need to have a bass and treble tone control.
I am selling my XPA-1 Gen 1 monoblocks in ebay right now. They have lasted me years and are fantastic, I recently upgraded to a class A amp, very little difference until very high listening levels
And absolutely agreed about how much audio performance has improved for the money over the last handful of years. Revolutionary. There's never been a better time for audio value than today.
I love my Yamaha B-2. It's 44 years old, but that sound is very unique. I don't know all the specs and test results of it, but I will never sell it. It made my Cerwin Vega E-315s sound way better! No other amp has ever done that. Yes, I know that CVs aren't audiophile or revealing speakers. But that's my testimony. I paid $120 for the B-2 as junk here in Japan. It just needed a cleaning. Works perfectly fine now. Score!
I just bumped into your channel today and I must say it was a revelation. Finally, someone who tells it like it is, in a language even non technical folks can understand. Kudos to you, and I’ll spread the word. Great stuff.
It would be awesome to see some old vs new amplifiers like the best of vintage 70s and 80s. I would love to see a Vfet amp take on a transistor amp with good test equipment ❤️
Years ago I could tell the difference, These days, I just want the instrument to sound good. I find to still be partial to tube amps. Enjoyed the video.
One of your best episodes! Great to hear some real science underpinning a legitimate hypothesis on why certain amps can sound different under certain conditions. One thing which I think could use more fleshing out is *how much audible difference* does it make, and *under what conditions* is a significant difference going to be heard? Is this stuff that only matters under strenuous conditions like extreme dynamics at high SPL? Do most differences vanish at moderate volumes (we know most people probably never use more than 10-20 wpc).
Full of logical fallacies and justifications for snake oil. What could it possibly mean that an amp is "smooth sounding" or "more composed"? Give me a break. The use of such non-scientific, nonsensical, and therefore essentially irrefutable terms makes the whole thing easily dismissed. An amp that is cheap and light must sound worse? Right. Let's weigh our amps to see which one sounds better. That is old-school nonsense. How the marketing department specifies the power is a performance factor? That makes no sense aside from being sure to compare apples to apples. We don't play back sine waves and content is never "continuous" so measuring amps in that fashion is not necessarily more right than specifying peak power. There are plenty of independent measurements of the "cheap Behringer" amps that show they put out a lot more clean power for the money than the Emotivas and Monoliths no matter how you specify it. People paying extra for "beefy" amps with "audiophile" pedigree is marketing BS. He makes a big deal about impedance variability but the frequency response pictured shows a variation of about 2dB at 20KHz. I challenge anyone above the age of 30 to identify a 2dB variation at 20KHz in a blind comparison of real content. I doubt anyone of any age could hear it. Lots of reasons here why different amps might sound different, but no evidence of any sort that such differences are actually audible.
Good point! I cashed out my $6000. BAT VK-500 power amp system for a vintage Sansui AU-D11ii integrated with little regrets. However, I am still curious about the new Yamaha A-S3000 and the Luxman I-509x current attributes of "new" tech?
@@povertime6381 Go ahead and ignore the science and spend thousands on amps that have been proven to sound no different. This is just snake oil presented with a facade of science and reason, while ignoring the scientific method that would prove it false.
ESSPECIALLY WHEN YOUVE GOT GOOD 4K 7,1SURROUND SOUND,AND A GOOD SUBBWOOFER AS GOOD SPEAKERS,ARE A MUST.I E MOURDANT SHORTS MISSION Q ACOUSTICS WHARFDALE DIAMOND MONITOR AUDIO DALI TANNOY CAMBRIGE AUDIO FOCAL CORAS,I COULD GO ON.BUT I THINK YOU GET THE IDEA.MY AMP VOLUME NEVER GOES PAST _35 DB,I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS IN WHATTS BUT I DONT THINK ITS MUCH MORE THAN 30 WHATTS PER CHANNEL??🤔🤔😉👌✌
I am an Audiophile and own a design integration company that does mostly Professional production facilities and performing arts facilities. During Covid we setup a, Mark Levinson, Bryson, Lab Gruppen and Linea Research and did comparisons on Dynaudio, Totem, B&W, Westlake, and RBH speakers. The 8 channel Linea Research surprised the fool out of us. It sounded amazing and had full professional DSP. The Lab Gruppen was equally impressive. It’s always good to learn that there is more to learn! We will definitely be specifying the professional multichannel for future installs. It’s a no brainer.
finally...i very honest, quick and understandable explanation of how amplifier quality affects sound. there are so many opinions out there without any backup or explanation. so, thanks!
I went to an audio presentation in NYC back in the eighties. Nelson Pass was there talking about his Threshold amplifiers. He basically did tours to promote the sales of his premium Threshold amps. Nelson gave a lecture and in the middle volunteered that while his amps were great, there were others with less cost with the same performance. In other words better value. I'll never forget that in the middle of his lecture he told us that the Threshold amps were very well suited to the carriage trade. His exact words! Overbuilt and overpriced. Great amps, but you could buy the same performance for less dollars. Long live honest Nelson!
I had a Madrigal Proceed AMP 2 ($1700), from about 20 years ago, used to drive Martin Logan SL3s. A long while back I did borrow an Audio Research Hybrid Tube power amp ($5500) and Mark Levinson power amp ($6000) from the store for a long weekend. I really could not tell the difference so ended up not upgrading. I recently got Legacy Audio Aeris speakers (with Wavelet preamp). I brought the various components of my system to the factory for a demo. What I found was that the AMP 2 sounded lousy compared to the Legacy Audio Powerblocks. Legacy Audio offered to customize the speakers to include 2 extra 350 watt class-D mono block amps (for the mid-woofer, mid-range, tweeter, and super-tweet) in addition to the 2 500 watt class-D mono blocks used to drive the 2 subwoofers. I now have a 3-way active configuration with 3 balanced cables going from the Wavelet to each speaker. The designer mentioned this configuration would allow him to more easily control the individual drivers to get much better time alignment. Sounds fantastic. I must admit that I was pleasantly surprised that these power amps were very reasonably priced (about $2400 for the extra power amp modules - without needing a separate box to be in). Each speaker essentially has 1650 watts of power amplification.
NAIM is by far my favorite amplifier company (they pair well with Legacy speakers). I've tried others but always return to them. I'd like to hear LFD however.
You are correct. Not all Amps sound the same. I had a choice between buying a Krell KSA 100 and a Boulder (can't remember model... was a smaller amp). Dealer kept going on about how the Boulder would smoke the older Krell. I hooked both amps up to a pair of Dynaudio 5.4 S speakers. The Krell, to my ears, had better detail than the Boulder and was 100 per channels watts less. As for now, I'm using SVS Ultra speaker cable. Not what I want, but it was what I could afford at the time. Dealer told me the Boulder would've sounded better if I had better speaker wire....like the Transparent cable they sold. My system, minus speaker wire is wired with JPS cable. It's all about what sounds good to YOU. Not necessarily about price. The used Krell was $2500. The used Boulder was double that.
I recently acquired a Bel Canto REF300S to replace a pair of well-regarded CLASS A monoblocks. I had previously upgraded several other components (media player, DAC, preamp, cables, etc) and even though there were improvements somehow I was always looking for more. In hopes to arrive sonically to this unknown place, I talked to a lot of people in the audiophile industry, watched many hours of youtube high-end audio reviews, visited RMAF, demoed components in my home, but none of them was as impactful as this 250w/ch Bel Canto. WOW! The most obvious thing I noticed was that the speakers disappeared and the music was just present. Without even trying to focus to find a difference what happened was that I found myself simply enjoying the music, tapping my foot, singing (I am not a good singer but with this kind of sound it did seem I had a great voice) and loving music more. No longer I would have to start describing the sound I just heard in some technical jargon, now I can just feel the music in my whole body which is pretty amazing. WOW! I love what this upgrade and what it does to what really matters...It's all about the music. Life is better with music,
You make a lot of good points, Gene. I really liked the reference to the listening spaces and the kind of music you play. This interaction is more important to me than the charts and graphs that most audio reviews spend their time presenting.
What a golden nugget of a video, Gene. Thanks for not shying away from a much needed comparison and deep dive into class A and D and some key parameters of amplification beyond just continous output. In amps, output Voltages and output impedance matter. It's also a myth that you need 1000+ damping factor (looking at you, Accuphase). Benchmark has a great article on why 200 is a great, safe sweet spot for driver control. I just bought a used dual mono Onkyo M588F with 235W into 8 Ohms and love it. More than plenty of juice and the thing is over-built like a tank, 90s design with better than 80s capacitors and beefy solder joints. From a time before everything got outsourced to China. The layout is also so well thought out, PSU separated from the output section to minimize noise potentialy creepjng in, just awesome. Running two Noctua silent right above the heatsinks to keep it as cool as possible. Also got a 2nd gen Purifi based stereo amp from Boxem in Luxemburg on order. Class D has come a long way and if Marantz now uses the top of the line Purifi in their new $15K amp, you are getting steals right now with Boxem, Buckeye or VTV.
Great video Gene! The more I learn the more I realize I need to learn! I've loved home audio all my life but only in the last 5 years have I really started exploring all the differences in gear. I've been buying and selling on the used market quite bit and even rebuilding some vintage speakers. Lots of fun and a great learning experience. Crazy how 10 years ago I thought my Best Buy Klipsh speakers and lower power Onkyo receiver were awesome sounding equipment lol. I look forward to more of your content!
I began building a new system when we downsized our living space. I started with a Cambridge Audio CXA81, then upgraded to a Luxman L-505UXll, and upgraded that to a Luxman L-509X. Every upgrade resulted in much better sound.
Before viewing this video, my guess was that class D was going to take over. I think the days of massive back breaking, heat bricks will soon give way to super efficient, lightweight amps that sound just as good as any A/B amps. Thanks for letting us know that not all amps sound the same, and the law of diminishing returns does kick in pretty quickly, thanks to budget friendly brands like Emotiva/Monoprice. I recently upgraded to Parasound amps because I wanted 2 ch music to sound a little more refined. Coupled with some Martin Logan motions, they create a very nice synergy. But for movies, my older Emotivas were just as good.
@@kingdavid7571 Is that 6,5k for the amp itself or the entire rig? If you meant only the amplifier I'd say you could half that - just as our friend said up there in the vid. Already a decade ago there were a few brands that offered super value for the money at a price point less than 2000 buckaroos. Since then the price for really good stuf have dropped. ( I bought my main components a decade ago and paid a lit'l too much by the standards today, but tubes sound so much better for metal and for that musicality matters a lot more than perfect measurements - then spent too much again tube rolling.) The choice that remain is brand, looks, power (how loud you wish to play your growl metal), functionality (is there a need to play 24 bit PCM or FLAC or stream your growl metal from online sources) and in my case, musicality and and how fast it the growl metal get me headbanging.
@@andersforsgren3806 It also depends on your listening space. I've got a very small living room HiFi set up so don't need a Amplifier with loads of watts. Got a sweet 50watt class AB amplifier coming next week. Only cost £173 with some promo code and discounts and not a brand name. But I bet it will perform as good as a brand name 50watt £1000 amplifier which bumps the prices up sky high just for the name. Got good reviews online and on RUclips and I already have a very high performance power chord and excellent rca interconnects I will use with it. If you do proper research you can get great performing AB amplifiers for bargains these days.
@@williammorales8204 Emotiva (Gen 1-3) Gen 2 was best, imo, Outlaw 7000x, Monolith 7x, and NAD M12. The Parasound Halo amps are still my favorite. I can't say it's superior to class D specs, but whatever color they add is warm and smooth, but still transparent.
I used to sell Hi Fi equipment back in the 1990's and we had a comparator where we could seamlessly switch from one amplifer to another. When people asked us if there was a difference in sound quality in cheaper amps of under $400, we would show them a Luxman integrated amp and a Rotel amplifier, both rated at around 30 watts RMS per channel and had similar distortion figures. We used a test dic which had a 1kHz tone and matched volumes until we could no longer tell them apart. Then, we played the customer's music through them... The Rotel absolutely blew away the Luxman in every department and it wasn't a subtle difference! When we were asked why, we took the tops off the amps and it became obvious even to those who weren't technically minded that the Rotel was just built better. It had a much larger toroidal transformer, huge capacitors, discrete transistors and no extraneous tone controls etc. while the Luxman had a cheap op amp, and a pathetically small power supply. So there are (or at least were) huge differences in sound quality even with modestly priced amps and the lesson is to LISTEN to the amp and don't just rely on looks, reputation, or measurements.
Hello Gene: I have been reading your wonderful "straight to the point", down earth and very explanatory comments since the "Stereo Review" era. I specially like this article on " Are there any differences among different amplifier brands and electronic approach?". You did it again, most of my doubts are clear now !!! I have a Sherbourne 7/2100 for my home theater set up which fills in many ways my audio needs. I particularly love the idea of having seven amplifiers acting almost independently in every aspect specially in the power section. It is like comparing front wheel drive vs real wheel drive cars. I of course would choose rear wheel drive for many good and obvious reasons. Keep up your tirelessly effort in shedding some light in this "shady" business !!!!!!
Thank you Gene, great video! In my dedicated theater I have Crown XLR 2502's, alongside a Emotiva XPR 5. In my second system I went with the Sunfire 7401, and in my living room I'm running Emotiva XPA 5 gen 2. These amps have served me well, and it was based off your recommendations that I went with Emotiva as a brand. That said, I really hope that you and Matthew revisit this topic and provide more of a buyer's tutorial on how to buy an amplifier, doing things like you did in this video, providing definitions of terms that my go over the head of those of us who are not engineers. Terms like Damping factor, variable impedance, etc. And since we're on the subject of amplifiers, can we PLEASE discuss GAIN, what it is, and why it's important, which IMO is what most people want from their Amplifiers. Thank you and Audioholics for all you do, I look forward to the content and information you provide.
Ever bench the older Crown Macrotech or QSC lines (MX etc)? I have always heard they are stout and great sounding. I hear people praising the newer drive Core lines and currious on the old vs new aspect. The QSC that was in the cover image for this video was one of the Mx or Rmx lines which not a cheap pro amp, that is an easy 1250+ pro amp.
I have an old Crown Microtech 600 and a Crown 800 CSL. Both are nice amps and of course old - so no longer produced but can be found used at around $200. The Microtech 600 is pretty nice. The 800 CSL is very very good. I think amps are like engines... there is no replacement for displacement. Low or high volume the sound is full and punchy, even without a preamp it sounds good straight from the source with very little hum at high gain. I run a couple of old rebuilt 3-way speakers with it and the sound is stunning, people are amazed they fill a big space with full range sound. I did evenutally use a parametric EQ to get the sound that I wanted from them. You don't have to spend a lot to have an amazing sound. My setup: Chromecast Audio ($30) > Nobsound micro tube preamp with GE tubes ($65 with the upgraded tubes, this device smooths the digital signal coming from a chromecast and makes it much more natural) > Monoprice 31 band EQ ($100) > Crown CSL 800 ($200) > Rebuilt Optimus 3-way speakers upgraded crossover, drivers, bracing, sound deadening, ($300 originally in 1990 and another $500 invested over time)
Interesting video. I may be upgrading my amplifier setup soon. The class D amps from PS Audio and ATI seem interesting. I'd love it if Audioholics could review those (or similar amps). Thanks for the great content!
I have the NAD C-388 plenty of power future proof upgradeable with various modules, software upgrade by USB stick. To me, it sounds great very good control on speakers' tight bass and runs cool. Efficiency is 90%. Have been an Audio guy close to 50 years had Power A and Power A/B amplifiers and made the jump into D power and never looked back. The price is fair as well..
I wish the Class D stuff was more affordable. Class AB is fine and my Outlaw stuff is awesome quality for the money; I just want a lower electric bill.
I have a Carver av705x that I bought used in 2003 5 channels 125 watts channel all channels 20- 20k. Runs cool and is a beast and absolutely quiet when I turn it on. I can turn the volume up and put my ear up to the speaker and barely a hiss. I still have it today. It was a $1200 amp
@Audioholics I'm a long time audioholics viewer and this is one of my fav videos. More like these Gene! I appreciate the detailed info and real world comparisons
QSC pro audio amp works great. 300 watts X 2. Use it to drive my two front Cerwin Vega 15 inch three way speakers. A my Denon X6500 to drive all other speakers in my Dolby Atmos setup. Great sound. Only cost me $900.00.
Love this video, and love the work you do to cut through the audio BS out there. :-) I sometimes dabble in audio equipment, and tend to find myself investing more in areas of my life where acoustics is worse, such as my car. For my home, the acoustics are much better, but no where near any sort of audiophile level. I'm generally content with budget gear provided I can run my own equalization to get monitor-like, consistent sound. And I hate all of the budget monitors out there because the drivers and enclosure designs are normally very good, but the amps and crossovers inside are garbage. So I run passive bookshelf speakers that are run by an amp. My latest budget amp is a Dayton Audio APA150 (class AB amp), which is just a brand/model slapped on a Chinese-made design (eg: Emotiva BPA-1). The price is almost the same as its model number, for a very wallet-friendly $150. This amp hilariously has more distortion in the right channel, but still when I'm using it at 25% to 50% on its gain, the THD is still very, very low at most frequencies. My budget amp is powering a pair of Klipsch R-41M speakers. Some day I'd love to have fun creating a quality listening room and getting quality equipment, but it's always a battle with the wife to spend more money.
I've had a Roksan Caspian M2 Amp and CD player for the last 9 years, they still sound great to me. Although the Roksan Caspian M2 amp is only 85 watts per channel it can deliver high current, up to 60 amps I understand, and has no trouble with difficult loads I Have a small listening room and the KEF Ls50's I use sound great in there. I had a Parasound Halo before preferring and buying the Roksan. Thanks for the honest info, just subscribed to your channel, interesting stuff.
I have the Yamaha AS-801 for over a year now and in combination with my Klipsch set I am very happy. I think its great quality for a reasonable amount of moneySo the Adioholics RUclips review on my amp was great, thanks !
I'm seriously considering the AS-801 to upgrade my system - do you use it's DAC and if so are you happy with it? What Klipsch's do you drive with it ? Thanks
@@BruTay5454 at the moment i am not using the full functionality of the sac, I am using 2 Klipsch RB81 in combination with the sub RW12D perfect powerful combination to my ears 😉
@@zaldigo Thanks for the info - I have small Klisch's at the moment (R-41M), and am going to be upgrading them also. Probly the RP500M or RP600M, I don't have room for anything larger like you have. Good to know the AS-801 sounds good with your Klipschs.
you're welcome. in the beginning I had a very good old Rotel to drive my speakers, but I wanted to upgrade, bought a new Rotel, and was very disappointed with it, tried a more expansive flagship model and was also disappointed so I guess Rotel is just not what it was used to be. So after trial and error I discovered that Yamaha is a perfect match for Klipsch speakers. I wish you lots of musical pleasure !
Its hard to make direct comparisons between two amplifiers. Depending on the speakers you have, one amplifier will sound better than another. This doesn't mean that amplifier is better, its just better for you and those speakers. I absolutely believe there is a point of diminishing returns on amplifier and you will hear greater differences between cheap amplifier compared to expensive ones.
Gene, I think your spot on. The other part is what are you doing with your system. If it is strictly Home theater, the amp will be less noticeable assuming your buying a decent amp such as an outlaw etc. if your using your system as 2 Chanel and home theater, then the amp can revel the sound differences more transparently. I have am running a 7:2:4 system as both home theater and 2 channel. I have a Marantz 7012 with 2 amps. A Rotel 1075 and an Outlaw Audio 750. Both are great amp and power my B&W 605-S2 speakers without issue. Recently I did a back to back comparison of the 2 in 2 Chanel mode. The Outlaw could power the speakers to higher DB levels but the Rotel was warmer with tighter bass and better transition in the mid range. Based on this I swapped the 2 front towers to be powered by the Rotel. So yes, amps make a difference, in the home theater mode it was more difficult for me to tell a difference. Now as for adding external amp, in my book it is a must. The Marantz sounded terrible with the B&W speakers. It did not have enough power to make the system even sound decent. So fo me in a good to great system, external amps are a must. My next step will probably be to add a 3ed amp (Parasound A21) to power just the 2 front towers and the rest will be split between the Rotel and Outlaw.
Gryphon diablo 300s, fully balanced, dual mono, DC coupled, high bandwidth and zero NFB. With 200W idle and 1'900W max power draw, the class AB Diablo 300 dispatching an unruffled 300wpc/8Ω and 950wpc/2Ω. Additionally, a pair of tube Amps like the 275 Macintosh in Mono configuration to drive to Horned Speakers is an absolute dream.
I got the Audiolab 6000A amp. The right balance, not cheap stuff or high end. Mid fi is good enough for great music experience without going the whole hog and spending multiple grands on a system.
I have Pass Labs XA30.8 with xp-12 preamp and I love it. It sounds very engaging and smooth with a very satisfying big soundstage, it makes my Focal Sopra 3 completely disappear. It's only music in front of me. I'm super happy with my purchase and also the ability to purchase my dream speakers. Wish that type of nirvana to you all!!
I bought a pair of Rowland 301's on the used market, what I would consider a very well designed Class D amp. Back in the day they were about 30k, they deliver rich harmonics, which is something I value highly as well as a huge sound stage. They are also over 15 years old, but over the long-term represent good value for many hours of listening pleasure.
In 1985 My dad bought a Carver M 1.5t Magnetic Field Power Amplifier. High headroom low feedback. Output was 350 watts per channel RMS class A, total power output of 1500 watts. We used a Carver Sonic hologram preamplifier to run the amplifier as it had no buttons knobs switches of any sought, just two rows of LEDs to show that the volume was getting a above half You could just add more and more speakers to it and it would just get louder with no distortion. We never got to try really high end speakers on it but we have just some old school speakers that we already had and that made them sound really good. In 1991 we got a new one priced up to replace the amplifier because it was dropping a channel and we were looking at $10,000 because it was originally from America so we had to get it imported into Australia because at the time when when the offer was there it was through an Expo show in Melbourne Victoria. We took it to a local electronics repair shop and was able to get it fixed up but it made some horrible noises again lately going "bumpbumpbumpbumpbump!" As I turned it on instead of actually playing music so I don't know what happened this time, I haven't taken it back to the repair shop yet.
EVMYT I would think the older stuff has higher distortion and less headroom. Most of the old amps I’ve used sound good till you go past half way and it gets noisy. Plus capacitors go bad or get leaky making them less efficient leading to deterioration in the sound. They look cool but unless it’s had a full restoration I won’t touch them anymore. Besides the killer deals you used to find are now over inflated, even the boat anchors. There’s a lot of good deals out there for new amps. Yamaha makes great quality good sounding amps and the price is doable for most modest budgets.
Excellent synopsis. I bought a Monoprice Monolith 7 after reading your review, and am very happy with it. It weighs a ton, but the performance is worth a sore back.
Regardless of what any instrumentation may say we like what we like. It may not be theoretically perfectly sound either. The equipment I use is not the best. Far from it, but I'm happy with it. And in the end that's all that really counts.
Test benches can mislead when they measure audio factors with no regard to proven audibility. Just because a product measures better does not necessarily mean it sounds better. There is a graph in the video that shows an amp that has a 2dB boost at 20KHz under certain conditions. Can anyone hear such a difference playing actual content? I highly doubt it, but the amp is dismissed because of it.
@@gregworrel2623 I don't know what anyone else can hear. I know on average a human being cannot hear upwards of 2% distortion though. Which is an astronomical amount with today's amplifiers. People are such total morons with what they think they can hear, or see. Most don't know their assholes from their elbows. In tests people like volume. Take two identical signals with one louder than the other and people will favor the louder one. It'll "sound" better to them. The more the merrier I suppose? But an audiophile won't just say it is louder, they'll use all kinds of floral expression to convey their experience. It is airer, has more definition, separation blah blah. It's louder you fool!
That is one of the ways that people fool themselves. The difference can be less than .5dB which people do not register as louder, but they usually prefer it. Other ways people deceive themselves can be lumped in as cognitive bias. Anyone who sees the McGurk effect knows that hearing cannot be trusted. You sometimes hear what you expect to hear and the influences are subconscious. The coaching effect is one such bias, when one enthusiast tells another how much better such and such sounds. That is happening right here in this video.
@@gregworrel2623 double blind testing is the only reliable method when it comes to subjective audio appreciation. I actually like boomy bass. It is just a personal preference of mine.
As a young man I put my money into speakers first and never regretted it. Specifically, in 1975 I spent weeks going from store to store in DC and bought KEF 104s listing at $500 each. These days that would be about $3000 per pair. I still have those speakers and even bought some 104ab on Ebay and shipped then in from Australia total about $700. That was about 15-20 years ago. Interestingly, I prefer the earlier 104s as they are noticeably brighter and more detailed. All these speakers have rubberlike surrounds and unkike later foam surrounds have never deteriorated. None of these speakers have needed recaping either. Right now I am runing all four of them together in a bank from a 1975 Marantz 1060 and they sound to me drop dead gorgeous. I bought the rebuilt amp more than 15 years ago. Such amps are still available for about $500 on ebay and I just ordered another as a spare. This amp has all sorts of features. Two separate sets of switchabe speaker terminals, high and low bypass switches, loudness control (low + treble boost) for low power settings. Also bass, mid and treble detented tone controls. These features went out of style generations ago but are all handy given source and listening room variables. Anyway, I think budget buyers should be informed of such options. I have another system planned with a pair of used Klipsch Heresy (hair ah sea) at about $800 shipped. I bought an inexpensive Chinese single ended class A 6 watt/ch tube Reisong A10 integrated amp to drive the horns. Can't wait till to install new 18 AWG solid core wires. The monster cables muddied up the sound in speakers designed for thermostat wire! It's one of the things I suspect why the 104ab speakers are not as bright as the 104s. KEF Cantata www.hifido.co.jp/photo/14/258/25879/c.jpg KEF 104 img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/606147-vintage_kef_104ab_speakersbeauty.jpg Marantz 1060 www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0ZBosBkz&id=AEC71BCE6829C7E9A0154C9FAE0EC25AD6DD8176&thid=OIP.0ZBosBkz24LuhxnFQ0E8IQHaFj&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-sh5eg9laY9c%2FV3J3p81gOmI%2FAAAAAAAAE1s%2FFUl-EtpC8kg883iiG35BOpl7krJupv3ZwCKgB%2Fs1600%2Ffront%252B1.JPG&exph=1200&expw=1600&q=marantz+1060&simid=607995539757466630&selectedindex=26&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=0,1,2,3,4,6,8,10&sim=11
I recently purchased (2) Outlaw mono blocks (M2220) rated @200 Watts RMS (each) into an 8 ohm load from 20Hz - 20kHz with .05% THD and they sound great.
Awesome job on this. I used to design and build amps and there are a few very specific things that make an amp sound better than another amp. Thing #1 first and foremost is power output. Music is extremely dynamic and power consumption of speakers increases exponentially to the voltage value of the input signal. Having an amp that’s not running anywhere near close to clipping on transients 100% makes a difference. #2 is if an amp has transformer coupled inputs or outputs. McIntosh specifically. McIntosh amps are the best sounding solid state amps because they have an enormous transformer coupling the output. That’s what’s adding all the color and character, not the amplifier section itself. Three is tubes, tubes add cool non linearities like transformers do. If we’re talking two solid state amps that don’t have transformer couplings or tubes and aren’t running close to clipping, they will sound identical regardless of the price. Amps are way way way more accurate than speakers, so the 10th of a percent THD from a crappy amp is irrelevant to the few to several entire % mechanical THD of the speakers
I have many amps Peachtree Nova 125 ice amp based , TPA 3255 , class AB mono block 4 channel, Class A, Hypex nCore Allo Volt +D. I love the Hypex nCore it’s outstanding power any speaker it will rock. If budget is low and u can live with little less power but super clarity try Allo Volt + D. There are some bass tones I have never heard in these amps Also try to go active instead of passive. And take extra power than what u need always I have sealed DIY subs all powered by my amps never look at brands and buy miniDSP
The scariest thing isn’t the snake oil salesman. It’s the half science sounds legit salesman selling extra virgin snake oil. Yes amplifiers measures differently but does the frequency response measure differently when they drive speakers when not clipping. The answer is NO. $10000 says this guy can’t differentiate level matched non clipping amplifiers.
@@MrKom20 Modern amplifiers are a solved problem with distortion levels below the level of audibility and ruler-flat frequency response within the range of human hearing. Saying that one amplifier sounds "smoother" or "more composed" than another is pure snake oil nonsense. The real reasons amps can sound different is if they are not level-matched to within .1dB or if one is over-driven to clipping. So more powerful amps can sound better than less powerful amps at a volume level that causes the lower powered one to clip. The only other reasons amps will sound different are the same reasons people claim different speaker wires and interconnects sound different, subconscious bias. Gene is selling extra virgin snake oil, with his flawed observations backed with irrelevant measurements and engineering guesswork.
Greg Worrel Why are you listening to audio reviews if you’re already so knowledgeable? Please go back to your sterilized world of perfectly solved zero distortion and let the real audio lovers listen to different equipment. These differences are not always subtle. Have you heard any tube amplifiers? Second order harmonics? Do you actually listen or prefer to read graphs? I don’t know why I’m bothering here but I feel bad that people can be so small minded. If anyone else has bothered to keep reading, please experiment with different amps and decide for yourself.
@@MrKom20 Small minded is thinking the world is flat and ignoring all evidence to the contrary. That is what you are doing. Watch a video about the McGurk effect. That is not subtle either but it highlights the strong effects of psycho-acoustics on what we think we hear. Spending thousands of dollars on an illusion means that people are being ripped off. Many here are unaware of ABX testing and the $10,000 amplifier challenge. I hoped that Gene would tell the truth in this video, but he is either so steeped in the audiophile BS that he continues to spread the same nonsense, or he knows that his RUclips views, review samples, and other revenue streams would be compromised if he told the truth. That is what is truly sad. Watch this video about the McGurk effect and then tell me you have confidence in what you are hearing when you compare different amps. ruclips.net/video/2k8fHR9jKVM/видео.html
I just ugraded my electrocompaniet eci 6d to a mcintosh ma7200 and my dynaudios have basically come to life. A truly amazing difference. Ampification has an enormous impact on sound quality, perhaps more than many people fully understand. In general you get what you pay for.
There is very little correlation between sound quality and price when it comes to audio electronics. No you can’t make a great sounding 100w amp for 50 dollars, but you can mass produce one for hundreds of dollars. A few thousand will buy a state of the art one. 10’s and 100’s of thousands will buy you beautiful casework and the envy of other audiophiles but literally nothing in improved fidelity.
@@dednside5229 Hugely better because some people say they are. Described as better using attributes that can't be quantified. Most of high end audio is an elaborate fraud.
@@rwortman2 I dont need to convince you .... If you want high end gear thiers ways and tricks to get it like I do . Or...just discount it as audio snobbery . In the end it's the listening experience Do the research. Maybe grab an old Kenwood DC unit cheap and go from there . I found my first one in the garbage and repaired it , I was 12 . Hardoff Japan, Ship using tenso , start with the kenwood L line late 70's Dont forget to re-cap Re set factory bias Oh yeah, AR-M1 kick ass for cheap Ask Mark Levinson
@@dednside5229 I don't know how old you are but I've been messing around with audio equipment for over 40 years. I have a pretty nice VPI turntable, a pair of PSB Imagine T2 speakers and an additional matching center and surrounds for movies. I have separate two channel and surround setups that only share the front LR speakers and the power amp they are attached to. In addition to my main system I have three other stereo systems in two garages and a living room with a mix of newer and vintage gear some of which I repaired myself. I also do some unpaid work in live sound, recording, and mixing. It is my personal experience that the sound differences between properly designed electronic gear is largely imaginary unless one of them is introducing known distortion. It is also my personal experience that a good quality professional audio amplifier sounds as good as an audiophile brand one at a significantly lower price. I found this out by simply trying one that I had purchased for a project I was doing for a local theater group. I had it in the house so curiosity made me try it out. The only thing bad about it was the fan noise. I then purchased a better one with a whisper quiet fan that never comes on unless I am playing it so loud that you couldn't hear it anyway. It sounds great and has twice the power of my old amp. I sold my audiophile amp and spent the money more motorcycle gear.
Huge fan of my Emotiva XPA-5 for home theatre gen 1 it was when Emotiva was huge bang for the buck. Makes me smile when I am listening to anything movies or music
I like my Carver amps (x500, x760, x753). They sound smooth, natural, dynamic and fast. Virtually no noise either - s/n 120 db and no fan!!! I have been to a number of HiFi shows back in 90's when I lived in LA so I have heard extremely expensive stereo systems. My system may not be "the best" but it's far from being a piece of junk.
Thanks for the nice tips. Happy to hear about the EMOTIVA, that we bought one XPA-2 here in Brasil. We have a pair of Magnepans 3.6R and we hope to have a nice time with them.
Nad t758v3, picked it up for $1200 bout 6 months ago. I got crap from friends for it till I showed it to them then asked them to pick up the 34lb monster! Fact is there is a lot of myths that need to be debunked with facts and logic, I run mid level paradigm speakers and after watching a vid you recently put out have a max total of $200 for ALL of my cables! Friends are no longer giving me crap and now asking me to help them with their systems. Thanks for the honest advice!
I have an old (15 years maybe) Boulder 500AE stereo amp with some weird op-amp design. Via a pair of JM Labs Mini Utopia speakers, it sounds pretty good. Very revealing, smooth, great bass. Can't complain. Bought it second hand via my dealer for a steal and it's been rock solid since.
I’ve had some really expensive audio, but my older Audio Physics Virgos (blown woofers) were driven by a Bel Labs MK5 and Conrad Tube Premier 17LS Pre-amp. However my wife prefers the sound of my old Adcom GFA 555 II driven by an Acurus Pre-amp on my new Klipsch RP 8000Fs (& Klipsch 15 inch sub). So now I have all my high end cables on my cheaper stuff and it’s more satisfying than my high end system was. . So now I’m in a quandary what to do.
13:19 I’ve been super happy with my a/b Emotiva 250/500 watt amp purchased a few years ago. This experience reinforces everything you cited in your video. It’s powered a wide variety of speakers including some difficult loads. I appreciate your straight-shooting advice.
This is all above my head lol. I just like clear crisp highs. Mids that sound powerful and not tinny and bass that sounds good that doesn’t overwhelm the rest of the sound.
I'm waiting on a class D amp now, which I will hopefully get in February. It's based on the Hypex NCore tech, so should be pretty good. Very excited to hear the difference from my current class AB amp from around 2010. Love these videos.
Well said. The amplifiers that I am still kicking around with is Parasound 2125 they support 2olm 4 and 8 . Bridged mono mode is 400 watts RMS in 8olms and 4 stereo mode 125x2 8olm 200x2 in 4. Im bi amping with those which is teamed up with my DENON AVR. My center is is running with DAYTON AUDIO APA150. I do have a sound reinforcement amp Steller LABS 3ch . 8000s model it has two fans in the back third channel is the sub channel which I am using for tactile shakers. 300watts in 8 480 watts RMS in 4. One day all do some changes but for now its doing the job.
Thank you Gene for another informative and straight talking video. You have asked to comment on the amplifier we are using. In my case it is a NAD M22 class D power amp driving a pair of PMC Twenty.26 speakers. I am more than happy with the performance but to be honest I have not compared it with anything else, so whether my £2,400 would have been better spent on some other brand I have no idea. Hopefully not.
Right now, I use a Yamaha R-S 700 100 watt stereo receiver. I have a Quad 606 power amplifier which needs some repair, not easy in Canada, and the stereo receiver works so well I don't miss it. If I ever want separates, I would look at Bryston, a 3B should be plenty for me.
Most natural amps ( from what I had) - Linn AV 5105 power amp plus Linn Exotik preamp ( very detailed, very musical from analytic side sound , then, Luxman L 430 power amp ( separated from preamp), Yamaha P2201 power amp from 70', then, Roksan N3 (very detailed and very quick, but a bit harsh, regardless field transistors in output stage.
I've changed now to a new pre/amp combination using Class D (NUPRIME AMG PRA and AMG STA) and I'm very happy with the transparency, speed and detail I got at this price level. Thanks!
Amplifiers do sound very different one from the other . Thank you for a refreshing course on amplifier design and why they sound different from a technical stand point .
Im probably on the lower end of the spectrum..... I also use a set of B&W 604 series 3 in my system too. Always curious if a better amp would make a significant audible improvement.
In one of my set ups I run the TA-100 as the pre (same as the PT-100 except can be a stand alone as well) and the A-300 except I went with the CD-100 in that set up. I run RF7 IIs with it. It has the ability to piss people off pretty far down the street
Excellent. Glad theres someone around that debunks the myths with testing, measuring and technical analysis. Please, can you do something on high priced DACs, CD transports, digital front ends, as I think lots of snake oil with this one as well.
I agree with Gene's presentation about amplifier design and sound. I have to Halfer 930 Transnova amps running as monoblocks; it's older technology but they perform extremely well
Have many amplifiers! My preference is Parasound JC1's which drive Martin Logan Summit X. 1900W psu for a 400W amp. Lazy power is unbelievably real. Have still in use for the surround system, Bel Canto Ref1000, Rotel 1091 ( same class D module as BC Ref 1000 ) Krell FPB700CX ,Krell HTS, Harmon Kardon Signature, Harmon Kardon 8500 AVR used as power amp, Onkyo (9 channel for effects ). I have tri-amped speakers all around so need this many channels! Expensive amps definitely offers better sound but don't expect it to transform your system unless it is the real limiting factor. A well designed 50W amp is a lot of power with 90dBa speakers, as long as the power supply does not current limit.
Thanks for telling the short quick answer right at the beginning, and than telling details why. I like that way of answering the questions
Yes, but you really need to try a Crown XLS1502 (or higher XLS) with Drivecore. Gene, A/B test asap
@@tallpaull9367
I've been around the block, had different architectures, technologies, approaches. Designed many an amp. Made my own serious A/B remote switcher more than forty years ago. There's probably fifty amplifiers in my house. Thing is, you can't even talk to people about this stuff. Too much black magic and snake oil in their neurons. I picked up an xs1200 refurbished for a theatre sub project I was developing and made the mistake of trying it on my main system, in place of my large monoblock amps that are fully complementary-symmetry and fully balanced input to output, power response into the am radio band, couple thousand watt difficult to move power supplies, biased to idle at five hundred watts each. Which clearly any audiophile would know sounds better without even trying but boy was I in for a schooling. Those monster amps are still around here somewhere... 🤔 And I don't really need the lfe subwoofers. I don't use the movie surround sound anymore either. My listening experience is better than ever and I've been an audiophile for over fifty years.
Chabulawa12345 stars
@@tallpaull9367 I want more for us people in the cheap seats.
@@tallpaull9367 I was going to write the same.
That amp dose it. super good.
Gene is such a nice guy ! No snobbery or condescending yapping! He is a decent engineer and I always like his topics !
One of the most educational channels on hifi available. Thank you for all the things I've learned from you.
Thanks for your reviews and please keep producing them! As far as amplifiers go, I love my older Bryson 4b and paradigm studio reference speakers.
I recently upgraded my amp from an older multi channel class A/B amp with PS Audio Stellar M1200 hybrid amps. The improvement was dramatic and has brought a new level of enjoyment to my home theater. I was on the fence about class D, but when done well they can be truly fantastic. I almost went with a more budget friendly option, but sacrificed getting more gear for better gear and I’m happy I did. We all wish we could afford the really high end stuff, but finding good equipment for a reasonable budget, by comparison, is a true blessing.
I run a set of Class D monoblocks, the PS Audio Stellar M700's, and I'm very happy with them. I use them to drive a pair of Magnepan 1.7i's; a speaker that "traditionally" people recommend Class AB for, but these amps really make them sing.
I bought an Outlaw model 5000 thanks to you and HE-MAN. Best purchase...$450
I owe you 1!!
Headroom and dynamics define themselves.
I have a 5000 for my 4 atmos ceiling speakers and the 7000x for my main 7 channels. Aweaome amps and a great deal for the money. $1400 for both.
Now I just need a HDMI 2.1 prepro. Marantz AV7706 or whatever it will be called.
Those are build by ATI , I got the bigger brother 7 channel these amps have been rebranded crestron, outlaw, cinepro , monolith
Pretty much all the same amps ..
Cannot go wrong with these tanks, my weights 97 pounds class a/b
@@MichelLinschoten Not the 5000. That's built by NAD.
😮
Nice video, now follow it up with an episode of some specific amp recommendations by price range and it will be even better. 😉
Recently I tried some different speakers, and I was reminded how the amp/speaker match so important. Some amps will perform better on some speakers than others. it’s impossible to say which is absolutely best at a price because it’s so dependant on what you are driving.
My number one hate of the high end stereo amps is NO TONE CONTROL!!! Add a tone control but just add a bypass for those that think it is detrimental to the sound output. I don’t want to just listen to audiophile albums I want to listen to albums I like and when those albums are recorded bright or low then I need to have a bass and treble tone control.
Thank you!
Graphic equalizer
@@aussie8114 Schiit Loki in my chain for just that!
Luxman!
McIntosh C53 and 55 new with eq that can be turned off.
I bought Emotiva back when the the Aussie dollar was equal to US. Xpa2 drives my ultra towers without breaking a sweat! Keep up the good work Gene 👌👌
I have an Emotiva xpa-3 and love it.
I am selling my XPA-1 Gen 1 monoblocks in ebay right now. They have lasted me years and are fantastic, I recently upgraded to a class A amp, very little difference until very high listening levels
And absolutely agreed about how much audio performance has improved for the money over the last handful of years. Revolutionary. There's never been a better time for audio value than today.
Hey Gene... I'm looking to build a dedicated movie theater in my home this year. Your videos have been very helpful. I really appreciate your content.
I love my Yamaha B-2. It's 44 years old, but that sound is very unique. I don't know all the specs and test results of it, but I will never sell it. It made my Cerwin Vega E-315s sound way better! No other amp has ever done that. Yes, I know that CVs aren't audiophile or revealing speakers. But that's my testimony. I paid $120 for the B-2 as junk here in Japan. It just needed a cleaning. Works perfectly fine now. Score!
I confess I really didn't expect such a well thought out explanation. Thanks Gene.
I just bumped into your channel today and I must say it was a revelation. Finally, someone who tells it like it is, in a language even non technical folks can understand. Kudos to you, and I’ll spread the word. Great stuff.
It would be awesome to see some old vs new amplifiers like the best of vintage 70s and 80s. I would love to see a Vfet amp take on a transistor amp with good test equipment ❤️
Years ago I could tell the difference, These days, I just want the instrument to sound good. I find to still be partial to tube amps. Enjoyed the video.
One of your best episodes! Great to hear some real science underpinning a legitimate hypothesis on why certain amps can sound different under certain conditions.
One thing which I think could use more fleshing out is *how much audible difference* does it make, and *under what conditions* is a significant difference going to be heard? Is this stuff that only matters under strenuous conditions like extreme dynamics at high SPL? Do most differences vanish at moderate volumes (we know most people probably never use more than 10-20 wpc).
Full of logical fallacies and justifications for snake oil. What could it possibly mean that an amp is "smooth sounding" or "more composed"? Give me a break. The use of such non-scientific, nonsensical, and therefore essentially irrefutable terms makes the whole thing easily dismissed.
An amp that is cheap and light must sound worse? Right. Let's weigh our amps to see which one sounds better. That is old-school nonsense.
How the marketing department specifies the power is a performance factor? That makes no sense aside from being sure to compare apples to apples. We don't play back sine waves and content is never "continuous" so measuring amps in that fashion is not necessarily more right than specifying peak power. There are plenty of independent measurements of the "cheap Behringer" amps that show they put out a lot more clean power for the money than the Emotivas and Monoliths no matter how you specify it. People paying extra for "beefy" amps with "audiophile" pedigree is marketing BS.
He makes a big deal about impedance variability but the frequency response pictured shows a variation of about 2dB at 20KHz. I challenge anyone above the age of 30 to identify a 2dB variation at 20KHz in a blind comparison of real content. I doubt anyone of any age could hear it.
Lots of reasons here why different amps might sound different, but no evidence of any sort that such differences are actually audible.
Good point!
I cashed out my $6000. BAT VK-500 power amp system for a vintage Sansui AU-D11ii integrated with little regrets.
However, I am still curious about the new Yamaha A-S3000 and the Luxman I-509x current attributes of "new" tech?
@@gregworrel2623 Then listen to an amp they use for an intercom system or Karaoke party and be happy with it.
@@povertime6381 Go ahead and ignore the science and spend thousands on amps that have been proven to sound no different. This is just snake oil presented with a facade of science and reason, while ignoring the scientific method that would prove it false.
ESSPECIALLY WHEN YOUVE GOT GOOD 4K 7,1SURROUND SOUND,AND A GOOD SUBBWOOFER AS GOOD SPEAKERS,ARE A MUST.I E MOURDANT SHORTS MISSION Q ACOUSTICS WHARFDALE DIAMOND MONITOR AUDIO DALI TANNOY CAMBRIGE AUDIO FOCAL CORAS,I COULD GO ON.BUT I THINK YOU GET THE IDEA.MY AMP VOLUME NEVER GOES PAST _35 DB,I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS IN WHATTS BUT I DONT THINK ITS MUCH MORE THAN 30 WHATTS PER CHANNEL??🤔🤔😉👌✌
I dropped $2K on a Rotel RB-1582 mk II. That thing is 39 lbs. I never heard an amp sound so smooth and push 4 ohm speakers so effortlessly. I’m happy!
I have a Rotel Ra 1572 integrated amplifier with Kef R300 speakers and sound fantastic.
I am an Audiophile and own a design integration company that does mostly Professional production facilities and performing arts facilities. During Covid we setup a, Mark Levinson, Bryson, Lab Gruppen and Linea Research and did comparisons on Dynaudio, Totem, B&W, Westlake, and RBH speakers. The 8 channel Linea Research surprised the fool out of us. It sounded amazing and had full professional DSP. The Lab Gruppen was equally impressive. It’s always good to learn that there is more to learn! We will definitely be specifying the professional multichannel for future installs. It’s a no brainer.
finally...i very honest, quick and understandable explanation of how amplifier quality affects sound. there are so many opinions out there without any backup or explanation. so, thanks!
I went to an audio presentation in NYC back in the eighties. Nelson Pass was there talking about his Threshold amplifiers. He basically did tours to promote the sales of his premium Threshold amps. Nelson gave a lecture and in the middle volunteered that while his amps were great, there were others with less cost with the same performance. In other words better value.
I'll never forget that in the middle of his lecture he told us that the Threshold amps were very well suited to the carriage trade. His exact words! Overbuilt and overpriced. Great amps, but you could buy the same performance for less dollars. Long live honest Nelson!
PS Audio,Peachtree, Bel Canto, and NuForce all have some great Class D options.
I have a Nuprime HD-AVA (made by NuForce) which uses the same internal amp as is in the Nuprime IA-16, and it sounds really good.
NAD as well the affordable 328 and the more expensive C 388 which is future-orientated and can add Module I use the C 388 very happy with it
I had a Madrigal Proceed AMP 2 ($1700), from about 20 years ago, used to drive Martin Logan SL3s. A long while back I did borrow an Audio Research Hybrid Tube power amp ($5500) and Mark Levinson power amp ($6000) from the store for a long weekend. I really could not tell the difference so ended up not upgrading. I recently got Legacy Audio Aeris speakers (with Wavelet preamp). I brought the various components of my system to the factory for a demo. What I found was that the AMP 2 sounded lousy compared to the Legacy Audio Powerblocks. Legacy Audio offered to customize the speakers to include 2 extra 350 watt class-D mono block amps (for the mid-woofer, mid-range, tweeter, and super-tweet) in addition to the 2 500 watt class-D mono blocks used to drive the 2 subwoofers. I now have a 3-way active configuration with 3 balanced cables going from the Wavelet to each speaker. The designer mentioned this configuration would allow him to more easily control the individual drivers to get much better time alignment. Sounds fantastic. I must admit that I was pleasantly surprised that these power amps were very reasonably priced (about $2400 for the extra power amp modules - without needing a separate box to be in). Each speaker essentially has 1650 watts of power amplification.
NAIM is by far my favorite amplifier company (they pair well with Legacy speakers). I've tried others but always return to them. I'd like to hear LFD however.
You are correct. Not all Amps sound the same. I had a choice between buying a Krell KSA 100 and a Boulder (can't remember model... was a smaller amp). Dealer kept going on about how the Boulder would smoke the older Krell. I hooked both amps up to a pair of Dynaudio 5.4 S speakers. The Krell, to my ears, had better detail than the Boulder and was 100 per channels watts less. As for now, I'm using SVS Ultra speaker cable. Not what I want, but it was what I could afford at the time. Dealer told me the Boulder would've sounded better if I had better speaker wire....like the Transparent cable they sold. My system, minus speaker wire is wired with JPS cable. It's all about what sounds good to YOU. Not necessarily about price. The used Krell was $2500. The used Boulder was double that.
Love my old McIntosh amplifiers although some are now needing new capacitors after 45 years.
Nothing beats a Mcintosh!
Make sure the caps are put in properly. MrCarlsonsLab has a vid about the subject, and he demonstrates with a scope why it matters.
I recently acquired a Bel Canto REF300S to replace a pair of well-regarded CLASS A monoblocks. I had previously upgraded several other components (media player, DAC, preamp, cables, etc) and even though there were improvements somehow I was always looking for more. In hopes to arrive sonically to this unknown place, I talked to a lot of people in the audiophile industry, watched many hours of youtube high-end audio reviews, visited RMAF, demoed components in my home, but none of them was as impactful as this 250w/ch Bel Canto. WOW!
The most obvious thing I noticed was that the speakers disappeared and the music was just present. Without even trying to focus to find a difference what happened was that I found myself simply enjoying the music, tapping my foot, singing (I am not a good singer but with this kind of sound it did seem I had a great voice) and loving music more. No longer I would have to start describing the sound I just heard in some technical jargon, now I can just feel the music in my whole body which is pretty amazing.
WOW! I love what this upgrade and what it does to what really matters...It's all about the music.
Life is better with music,
You make a lot of good points, Gene. I really liked the reference to the listening spaces and the kind of music you play. This interaction is more important to me than the charts and graphs that most audio reviews spend their time presenting.
What a golden nugget of a video, Gene. Thanks for not shying away from a much needed comparison and deep dive into class A and D and some key parameters of amplification beyond just continous output. In amps, output Voltages and output impedance matter. It's also a myth that you need 1000+ damping factor (looking at you, Accuphase). Benchmark has a great article on why 200 is a great, safe sweet spot for driver control. I just bought a used dual mono Onkyo M588F with 235W into 8 Ohms and love it. More than plenty of juice and the thing is over-built like a tank, 90s design with better than 80s capacitors and beefy solder joints. From a time before everything got outsourced to China. The layout is also so well thought out, PSU separated from the output section to minimize noise potentialy creepjng in, just awesome. Running two Noctua silent right above the heatsinks to keep it as cool as possible. Also got a 2nd gen Purifi based stereo amp from Boxem in Luxemburg on order. Class D has come a long way and if Marantz now uses the top of the line Purifi in their new $15K amp, you are getting steals right now with Boxem, Buckeye or VTV.
I'm loving my monolith 5 amp. It replaced my Rotel class D amp. It really opened up my speakers.
I love my old Marantz 1152 dc integrated amp I paid 450.00 in 1978. A lot of money to me at that time
Great video Gene! The more I learn the more I realize I need to learn!
I've loved home audio all my life but only in the last 5 years have I really started exploring all the differences in gear. I've been buying and selling on the used market quite bit and even rebuilding some vintage speakers.
Lots of fun and a great learning experience.
Crazy how 10 years ago I thought my Best Buy Klipsh speakers and lower power Onkyo receiver were awesome sounding equipment lol.
I look forward to more of your content!
I refer to the answer my dad gave when I asked if people were smarter than dolphins: some are and some aren't.
I like that
depends whether you're in the water or on dry land
most aren't
@@reginaldjames7975 They seem to do okay without having to spend money on audio equipment.
I began building a new system when we downsized our living space. I started with a Cambridge Audio CXA81, then upgraded to a Luxman L-505UXll, and upgraded that to a Luxman L-509X. Every upgrade resulted in much better sound.
Before viewing this video, my guess was that class D was going to take over. I think the days of massive back breaking, heat bricks will soon give way to super efficient, lightweight amps that sound just as good as any A/B amps. Thanks for letting us know that not all amps sound the same, and the law of diminishing returns does kick in pretty quickly, thanks to budget friendly brands like Emotiva/Monoprice. I recently upgraded to Parasound amps because I wanted 2 ch music to sound a little more refined. Coupled with some Martin Logan motions, they create a very nice synergy. But for movies, my older Emotivas were just as good.
The Law of Diminishing Returns seems to kick in at just over $6500, though. :)
@@kingdavid7571 Is that 6,5k for the amp itself or the entire rig?
If you meant only the amplifier I'd say you could half that - just as our friend said up there in the vid.
Already a decade ago there were a few brands that offered super value for the money at a price point less than 2000 buckaroos. Since then the price for really good stuf have dropped.
( I bought my main components a decade ago and paid a lit'l too much by the standards today, but tubes sound so much better for metal and for that musicality matters a lot more than perfect measurements - then spent too much again tube rolling.)
The choice that remain is brand, looks, power (how loud you wish to play your growl metal), functionality (is there a need to play 24 bit PCM or FLAC or stream your growl metal from online sources) and in my case, musicality and and how fast it the growl metal get me headbanging.
@@andersforsgren3806 It also depends on your listening space. I've got a very small living room HiFi set up so don't need a Amplifier with loads of watts. Got a sweet 50watt class AB amplifier coming next week.
Only cost £173 with some promo code and discounts and not a brand name. But I bet it will perform as good as a brand name 50watt £1000 amplifier which bumps the prices up sky high just for the name.
Got good reviews online and on RUclips and I already have a very high performance power chord and excellent rca interconnects I will use with it. If you do proper research you can get great performing AB amplifiers for bargains these days.
What amp did you have before the parasound?
@@williammorales8204 Emotiva (Gen 1-3) Gen 2 was best, imo, Outlaw 7000x, Monolith 7x, and NAD M12. The Parasound Halo amps are still my favorite. I can't say it's superior to class D specs, but whatever color they add is warm and smooth, but still transparent.
I used to sell Hi Fi equipment back in the 1990's and we had a comparator where we could seamlessly switch from one amplifer to another. When people asked us if there was a difference in sound quality in cheaper amps of under $400, we would show them a Luxman integrated amp and a Rotel amplifier, both rated at around 30 watts RMS per channel and had similar distortion figures. We used a test dic which had a 1kHz tone and matched volumes until we could no longer tell them apart. Then, we played the customer's music through them...
The Rotel absolutely blew away the Luxman in every department and it wasn't a subtle difference! When we were asked why, we took the tops off the amps and it became obvious even to those who weren't technically minded that the Rotel was just built better. It had a much larger toroidal transformer, huge capacitors, discrete transistors and no extraneous tone controls etc. while the Luxman had a cheap op amp, and a pathetically small power supply. So there are (or at least were) huge differences in sound quality even with modestly priced amps and the lesson is to LISTEN to the amp and don't just rely on looks, reputation, or measurements.
Hello Gene: I have been reading your wonderful "straight to the point", down earth and very explanatory comments since the "Stereo Review" era. I specially like this article on " Are there any differences among different amplifier brands and electronic approach?". You did it again, most of my doubts are clear now !!! I have a Sherbourne 7/2100 for my home theater set up which fills in many ways my audio needs. I particularly love the idea of having seven amplifiers acting almost independently in every aspect specially in the power section. It is like comparing front wheel drive vs real wheel drive cars. I of course would choose rear wheel drive for many good and obvious reasons. Keep up your tirelessly effort in shedding some light in this "shady" business !!!!!!
tomas baer , Buy a 4 by.
Love my totally updated SX 1250. Keeps me in shape when I have to move it. And you can’t beat the look.
Rotel RMB-1585 amp here. Class A/B and love the sound. Heavy as hell though 😅
Thank you Gene, great video! In my dedicated theater I have Crown XLR 2502's, alongside a Emotiva XPR 5. In my second system I went with the Sunfire 7401, and in my living room I'm running Emotiva XPA 5 gen 2. These amps have served me well, and it was based off your recommendations that I went with Emotiva as a brand. That said, I really hope that you and Matthew revisit this topic and provide more of a buyer's tutorial on how to buy an amplifier, doing things like you did in this video, providing definitions of terms that my go over the head of those of us who are not engineers. Terms like Damping factor, variable impedance, etc. And since we're on the subject of amplifiers, can we PLEASE discuss GAIN, what it is, and why it's important, which IMO is what most people want from their Amplifiers. Thank you and Audioholics for all you do, I look forward to the content and information you provide.
Ever bench the older Crown Macrotech or QSC lines (MX etc)? I have always heard they are stout and great sounding. I hear people praising the newer drive Core lines and currious on the old vs new aspect.
The QSC that was in the cover image for this video was one of the Mx or Rmx lines which not a cheap pro amp, that is an easy 1250+ pro amp.
I have an old Crown Microtech 600 and a Crown 800 CSL. Both are nice amps and of course old - so no longer produced but can be found used at around $200. The Microtech 600 is pretty nice. The 800 CSL is very very good. I think amps are like engines... there is no replacement for displacement. Low or high volume the sound is full and punchy, even without a preamp it sounds good straight from the source with very little hum at high gain. I run a couple of old rebuilt 3-way speakers with it and the sound is stunning, people are amazed they fill a big space with full range sound. I did evenutally use a parametric EQ to get the sound that I wanted from them. You don't have to spend a lot to have an amazing sound. My setup: Chromecast Audio ($30) > Nobsound micro tube preamp with GE tubes ($65 with the upgraded tubes, this device smooths the digital signal coming from a chromecast and makes it much more natural) > Monoprice 31 band EQ ($100) > Crown CSL 800 ($200) > Rebuilt Optimus 3-way speakers upgraded crossover, drivers, bracing, sound deadening, ($300 originally in 1990 and another $500 invested over time)
I had over 20 different amplifiers, not included receivers, i am very satisfied with my marantz mp7000
Interesting video. I may be upgrading my amplifier setup soon. The class D amps from PS Audio and ATI seem interesting. I'd love it if Audioholics could review those (or similar amps). Thanks for the great content!
We have ATI Class D amp review here: www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/ati-at4002
I have the NAD C-388 plenty of power future proof upgradeable with various modules, software upgrade by USB stick. To me, it sounds great very good control on speakers' tight bass and runs cool. Efficiency is 90%. Have been an Audio guy close to 50 years had Power A and Power A/B amplifiers and made the jump into D power and never looked back. The price is fair as well..
I wish the Class D stuff was more affordable. Class AB is fine and my Outlaw stuff is awesome quality for the money; I just want a lower electric bill.
@@lakorai2 some crown amps are class ab
Check out the Benchmark AHB2 amp. Not huge power, but very honest power.
I have a Carver av705x that I bought used in 2003 5 channels 125 watts channel all channels 20- 20k. Runs cool and is a beast and absolutely quiet when I turn it on. I can turn the volume up and put my ear up to the speaker and barely a hiss. I still have it today. It was a $1200 amp
@Audioholics I'm a long time audioholics viewer and this is one of my fav videos. More like these Gene! I appreciate the detailed info and real world comparisons
QSC pro audio amp works great. 300 watts X 2. Use it to drive my two front Cerwin Vega 15 inch three way speakers. A my Denon X6500 to drive all other speakers in my Dolby Atmos setup. Great sound. Only cost me $900.00.
Love this video, and love the work you do to cut through the audio BS out there. :-)
I sometimes dabble in audio equipment, and tend to find myself investing more in areas of my life where acoustics is worse, such as my car. For my home, the acoustics are much better, but no where near any sort of audiophile level. I'm generally content with budget gear provided I can run my own equalization to get monitor-like, consistent sound. And I hate all of the budget monitors out there because the drivers and enclosure designs are normally very good, but the amps and crossovers inside are garbage. So I run passive bookshelf speakers that are run by an amp. My latest budget amp is a Dayton Audio APA150 (class AB amp), which is just a brand/model slapped on a Chinese-made design (eg: Emotiva BPA-1). The price is almost the same as its model number, for a very wallet-friendly $150. This amp hilariously has more distortion in the right channel, but still when I'm using it at 25% to 50% on its gain, the THD is still very, very low at most frequencies. My budget amp is powering a pair of Klipsch R-41M speakers.
Some day I'd love to have fun creating a quality listening room and getting quality equipment, but it's always a battle with the wife to spend more money.
I've had a Roksan Caspian M2 Amp and CD player for the last 9 years, they still sound great to me. Although the Roksan Caspian M2 amp is only 85 watts per channel it can deliver high current, up to 60 amps I understand, and has no trouble with difficult loads I Have a small listening room and the KEF Ls50's I use sound great in there. I had a Parasound Halo before preferring and buying the Roksan. Thanks for the honest info, just subscribed to your channel, interesting stuff.
I have the Yamaha AS-801 for over a year now and in combination with my Klipsch set I am very happy. I think its great quality for a reasonable amount of moneySo the Adioholics RUclips review on my amp was great, thanks !
I'm seriously considering the AS-801 to upgrade my system - do you use it's DAC and if so are you happy with it? What Klipsch's do you drive with it ? Thanks
@@BruTay5454 at the moment i am not using the full functionality of the sac, I am using 2 Klipsch RB81 in combination with the sub RW12D perfect powerful combination to my ears 😉
@@zaldigo Thanks for the info - I have small Klisch's at the moment (R-41M), and am going to be upgrading them also. Probly the RP500M or RP600M, I don't have room for anything larger like you have. Good to know the AS-801 sounds good with your Klipschs.
you're welcome. in the beginning I had a very good old Rotel to drive my speakers, but I wanted to upgrade, bought a new Rotel, and was very disappointed with it, tried a more expansive flagship model and was also disappointed so I guess Rotel is just not what it was used to be. So after trial and error I discovered that Yamaha is a perfect match for Klipsch speakers. I wish you lots of musical pleasure !
If you plan on working without a subwoofer I would definetely go for the RP600M :-)
Its hard to make direct comparisons between two amplifiers. Depending on the speakers you have, one amplifier will sound better than another. This doesn't mean that amplifier is better, its just better for you and those speakers. I absolutely believe there is a point of diminishing returns on amplifier and you will hear greater differences between cheap amplifier compared to expensive ones.
Ive always used Arcam AVRs im waiting for you to review them. I would like to know how they stack up against the popular brands.
I wanna see the new reviews on the Arcam AV40! Vs competitors 🤞🤞🤞
Gene, I think your spot on.
The other part is what are you doing with your system. If it is strictly Home theater, the amp will be less noticeable assuming your buying a decent amp such as an outlaw etc.
if your using your system as 2 Chanel and home theater, then the amp can revel the sound differences more transparently.
I have am running a 7:2:4 system as both home theater and 2 channel.
I have a Marantz 7012 with 2 amps. A Rotel 1075 and an Outlaw Audio 750. Both are great amp and power my B&W 605-S2 speakers without issue.
Recently I did a back to back comparison of the 2 in 2 Chanel mode.
The Outlaw could power the speakers to higher DB levels but the Rotel was warmer with tighter bass and better transition in the mid range.
Based on this I swapped the 2 front towers to be powered by the Rotel.
So yes, amps make a difference, in the home theater mode it was more difficult for me to tell a difference.
Now as for adding external amp, in my book it is a must. The Marantz sounded terrible with the B&W speakers. It did not have enough power to make the system even sound decent.
So fo me in a good to great system, external amps are a must.
My next step will probably be to add a 3ed amp (Parasound A21) to power just the 2 front towers and the rest will be split between the Rotel and Outlaw.
Best audio channel in RUclips!
Gryphon diablo 300s, fully balanced, dual mono, DC coupled, high bandwidth and zero NFB. With 200W idle and 1'900W max power draw, the class AB Diablo 300 dispatching an unruffled 300wpc/8Ω and 950wpc/2Ω.
Additionally, a pair of tube Amps like the 275 Macintosh in Mono configuration to drive to Horned Speakers is an absolute dream.
Thanks Gene. Again, you do an awesome job of demystifying this. Do you have an opinion on Devialet’s hybrid A/D design?
A response that's a few years late but a few reviewers came out and talked about as well as measured them and they did not perform well
I got the Audiolab 6000A amp. The right balance, not cheap stuff or high end. Mid fi is good enough for great music experience without going the whole hog and spending multiple grands on a system.
Excellent analysis , much appreciated . Emotiva was an excellent value but their strategy changed.
I agree, that’s why I’m glad I bought a couple of the gen 2 amps. I’m not too excited about their new amps.
I have Pass Labs XA30.8 with xp-12 preamp and I love it. It sounds very engaging and smooth with a very satisfying big soundstage, it makes my Focal Sopra 3 completely disappear. It's only music in front of me. I'm super happy with my purchase and also the ability to purchase my dream speakers.
Wish that type of nirvana to you all!!
I love my monolith 11.
I bought a pair of Rowland 301's on the used market, what I would consider a very well designed Class D amp. Back in the day they were about 30k, they deliver rich harmonics, which is something I value highly as well as a huge sound stage. They are also over 15 years old, but over the long-term represent good value for many hours of listening pleasure.
Top ten audio products of the 2010s?
In 1985 My dad bought a Carver M 1.5t Magnetic Field Power Amplifier. High headroom low feedback. Output was 350 watts per channel RMS class A, total power output of 1500 watts. We used a Carver Sonic hologram preamplifier to run the amplifier as it had no buttons knobs switches of any sought, just two rows of LEDs to show that the volume was getting a above half You could just add more and more speakers to it and it would just get louder with no distortion. We never got to try really high end speakers on it but we have just some old school speakers that we already had and that made them sound really good. In 1991 we got a new one priced up to replace the amplifier because it was dropping a channel and we were looking at $10,000 because it was originally from America so we had to get it imported into Australia because at the time when when the offer was there it was through an Expo show in Melbourne Victoria. We took it to a local electronics repair shop and was able to get it fixed up but it made some horrible noises again lately going "bumpbumpbumpbumpbump!" As I turned it on instead of actually playing music so I don't know what happened this time, I haven't taken it back to the repair shop yet.
Do older amplifiers sound better, that's the real question.
EVMYT I would think the older stuff has higher distortion and less headroom. Most of the old amps I’ve used sound good till you go past half way and it gets noisy. Plus capacitors go bad or get leaky making them less efficient leading to deterioration in the sound. They look cool but unless it’s had a full restoration I won’t touch them anymore. Besides the killer deals you used to find are now over inflated, even the boat anchors. There’s a lot of good deals out there for new amps. Yamaha makes great quality good sounding amps and the price is doable for most modest budgets.
@@jsdhesmith2011 Yep the caps in my Adcom GFA555 amp have leaked, bigtime!
Excellent synopsis. I bought a Monoprice Monolith 7 after reading your review, and am very happy with it. It weighs a ton, but the performance is worth a sore back.
Test benches never lie, but manufacturers and some reviewer's ears do.
Regardless of what any instrumentation may say we like what we like. It may not be theoretically perfectly sound either. The equipment I use is not the best. Far from it, but I'm happy with it. And in the end that's all that really counts.
Test benches can mislead when they measure audio factors with no regard to proven audibility. Just because a product measures better does not necessarily mean it sounds better. There is a graph in the video that shows an amp that has a 2dB boost at 20KHz under certain conditions. Can anyone hear such a difference playing actual content? I highly doubt it, but the amp is dismissed because of it.
@@gregworrel2623 I don't know what anyone else can hear. I know on average a human being cannot hear upwards of 2% distortion though. Which is an astronomical amount with today's amplifiers. People are such total morons with what they think they can hear, or see. Most don't know their assholes from their elbows. In tests people like volume. Take two identical signals with one louder than the other and people will favor the louder one. It'll "sound" better to them. The more the merrier I suppose? But an audiophile won't just say it is louder, they'll use all kinds of floral expression to convey their experience. It is airer, has more definition, separation blah blah. It's louder you fool!
That is one of the ways that people fool themselves. The difference can be less than .5dB which people do not register as louder, but they usually prefer it. Other ways people deceive themselves can be lumped in as cognitive bias. Anyone who sees the McGurk effect knows that hearing cannot be trusted. You sometimes hear what you expect to hear and the influences are subconscious. The coaching effect is one such bias, when one enthusiast tells another how much better such and such sounds. That is happening right here in this video.
@@gregworrel2623 double blind testing is the only reliable method when it comes to subjective audio appreciation. I actually like boomy bass. It is just a personal preference of mine.
As a young man I put my money into speakers first and never regretted it. Specifically, in 1975 I spent weeks going from store to store in DC and bought KEF 104s listing at $500 each. These days that would be about $3000 per pair. I still have those speakers and even bought some 104ab on Ebay and shipped then in from Australia total about $700. That was about 15-20 years ago.
Interestingly, I prefer the earlier 104s as they are noticeably brighter and more detailed. All these speakers have rubberlike surrounds and unkike later foam surrounds have never deteriorated. None of these speakers have needed recaping either. Right now I am runing all four of them together in a bank from a 1975 Marantz 1060 and they sound to me drop dead gorgeous.
I bought the rebuilt amp more than 15 years ago. Such amps are still available for about $500 on ebay and I just ordered another as a spare. This amp has all sorts of features. Two separate sets of switchabe speaker terminals, high and low bypass switches, loudness control (low + treble boost) for low power settings. Also bass, mid and treble detented tone controls.
These features went out of style generations ago but are all handy given source and listening room variables. Anyway, I think budget buyers should be informed of such options. I have another system planned with a pair of used Klipsch Heresy (hair ah sea) at about $800 shipped. I bought an inexpensive Chinese single ended class A 6 watt/ch tube Reisong A10 integrated amp to drive the horns.
Can't wait till to install new 18 AWG solid core wires. The monster cables muddied up the sound in speakers designed for thermostat wire! It's one of the things I suspect why the 104ab speakers are not as bright as the 104s.
KEF Cantata
www.hifido.co.jp/photo/14/258/25879/c.jpg
KEF 104
img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/606147-vintage_kef_104ab_speakersbeauty.jpg
Marantz 1060
www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=0ZBosBkz&id=AEC71BCE6829C7E9A0154C9FAE0EC25AD6DD8176&thid=OIP.0ZBosBkz24LuhxnFQ0E8IQHaFj&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-sh5eg9laY9c%2FV3J3p81gOmI%2FAAAAAAAAE1s%2FFUl-EtpC8kg883iiG35BOpl7krJupv3ZwCKgB%2Fs1600%2Ffront%252B1.JPG&exph=1200&expw=1600&q=marantz+1060&simid=607995539757466630&selectedindex=26&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=0,1,2,3,4,6,8,10&sim=11
Electrically, its much harder for an amplifier terminated into a dummy load than in a dynamic load.
I recently purchased (2) Outlaw mono blocks (M2220) rated @200 Watts RMS (each) into an 8 ohm load from 20Hz - 20kHz with .05% THD and they sound great.
waiting for the 100,000 subs video :)
Awesome job on this. I used to design and build amps and there are a few very specific things that make an amp sound better than another amp. Thing #1 first and foremost is power output. Music is extremely dynamic and power consumption of speakers increases exponentially to the voltage value of the input signal. Having an amp that’s not running anywhere near close to clipping on transients 100% makes a difference. #2 is if an amp has transformer coupled inputs or outputs. McIntosh specifically. McIntosh amps are the best sounding solid state amps because they have an enormous transformer coupling the output. That’s what’s adding all the color and character, not the amplifier section itself. Three is tubes, tubes add cool non linearities like transformers do. If we’re talking two solid state amps that don’t have transformer couplings or tubes and aren’t running close to clipping, they will sound identical regardless of the price. Amps are way way way more accurate than speakers, so the 10th of a percent THD from a crappy amp is irrelevant to the few to several entire % mechanical THD of the speakers
The Crown Core2s amps sound great and beat many 'audiophile' amps in musicality, detail and dynamics.
I run a whole rack of Crown amps. Love them.
Bill Crane ... Heard so much about the Crown amps. Am really keen to try them. It’s cheap.
What have you compared them with?
Which "audiophile" amps have you compared them to?
There are MANY lines of crown amps. From very cheap to really expensive. Radically different machines.
I've got a Crown amp and preamp from the sixties!
I have many amps Peachtree Nova 125 ice amp based , TPA 3255 , class AB mono block 4 channel, Class A, Hypex nCore
Allo Volt +D. I love the Hypex nCore it’s outstanding power any speaker it will rock. If budget is low and u can live with little less power but super clarity try Allo Volt + D. There are some bass tones I have never heard in these amps
Also try to go active instead of passive. And take extra power than what u need always
I have sealed DIY subs all powered by my amps never look at brands and buy miniDSP
The scariest thing isn’t the snake oil salesman. It’s the half science sounds legit salesman selling extra virgin snake oil. Yes amplifiers measures differently but does the frequency response measure differently when they drive speakers when not clipping. The answer is NO. $10000 says this guy can’t differentiate level matched non clipping amplifiers.
You should actually listen to different amps. Very sad if you can’t hear any differences in sound character.
@@MrKom20 Modern amplifiers are a solved problem with distortion levels below the level of audibility and ruler-flat frequency response within the range of human hearing. Saying that one amplifier sounds "smoother" or "more composed" than another is pure snake oil nonsense. The real reasons amps can sound different is if they are not level-matched to within .1dB or if one is over-driven to clipping. So more powerful amps can sound better than less powerful amps at a volume level that causes the lower powered one to clip. The only other reasons amps will sound different are the same reasons people claim different speaker wires and interconnects sound different, subconscious bias. Gene is selling extra virgin snake oil, with his flawed observations backed with irrelevant measurements and engineering guesswork.
Greg Worrel Why are you listening to audio reviews if you’re already so knowledgeable? Please go back to your sterilized world of perfectly solved zero distortion and let the real audio lovers listen to different equipment. These differences are not always subtle. Have you heard any tube amplifiers? Second order harmonics? Do you actually listen or prefer to read graphs? I don’t know why I’m bothering here but I feel bad that people can be so small minded. If anyone else has bothered to keep reading, please experiment with different amps and decide for yourself.
@@MrKom20 Small minded is thinking the world is flat and ignoring all evidence to the contrary. That is what you are doing. Watch a video about the McGurk effect. That is not subtle either but it highlights the strong effects of psycho-acoustics on what we think we hear. Spending thousands of dollars on an illusion means that people are being ripped off. Many here are unaware of ABX testing and the $10,000 amplifier challenge. I hoped that Gene would tell the truth in this video, but he is either so steeped in the audiophile BS that he continues to spread the same nonsense, or he knows that his RUclips views, review samples, and other revenue streams would be compromised if he told the truth. That is what is truly sad. Watch this video about the McGurk effect and then tell me you have confidence in what you are hearing when you compare different amps. ruclips.net/video/2k8fHR9jKVM/видео.html
I just ugraded my electrocompaniet eci 6d to a mcintosh ma7200 and my dynaudios have basically come to life. A truly amazing difference. Ampification has an enormous impact on sound quality, perhaps more than many people fully understand. In general you get what you pay for.
There is very little correlation between sound quality and price when it comes to audio electronics. No you can’t make a great sounding 100w amp for 50 dollars, but you can mass produce one for hundreds of dollars. A few thousand will buy a state of the art one. 10’s and 100’s of thousands will buy you beautiful casework and the envy of other audiophiles but literally nothing in improved fidelity.
That's rediculous
Look up the Big SET
Tube amps , thier Incredible and hugely better .
I wish you were right , bu thiers always crown ....
@@dednside5229 Hugely better because some people say they are. Described as better using attributes that can't be quantified. Most of high end audio is an elaborate fraud.
@@dednside5229 Yep, just call me names and spout more opinions. That's proof enough for me.
@@rwortman2
I dont need to convince you ....
If you want high end gear thiers ways and tricks to get it like I do .
Or...just discount it as audio snobbery .
In the end it's the listening experience
Do the research.
Maybe grab an old Kenwood DC unit cheap and go from there .
I found my first one in the garbage and repaired it , I was 12 .
Hardoff Japan,
Ship using tenso , start with the kenwood L line late 70's
Dont forget to re-cap
Re set factory bias
Oh yeah, AR-M1 kick ass for cheap
Ask Mark Levinson
@@dednside5229 I don't know how old you are but I've been messing around with audio equipment for over 40 years. I have a pretty nice VPI turntable, a pair of PSB Imagine T2 speakers and an additional matching center and surrounds for movies. I have separate two channel and surround setups that only share the front LR speakers and the power amp they are attached to. In addition to my main system I have three other stereo systems in two garages and a living room with a mix of newer and vintage gear some of which I repaired myself. I also do some unpaid work in live sound, recording, and mixing. It is my personal experience that the sound differences between properly designed electronic gear is largely imaginary unless one of them is introducing known distortion. It is also my personal experience that a good quality professional audio amplifier sounds as good as an audiophile brand one at a significantly lower price. I found this out by simply trying one that I had purchased for a project I was doing for a local theater group. I had it in the house so curiosity made me try it out. The only thing bad about it was the fan noise. I then purchased a better one with a whisper quiet fan that never comes on unless I am playing it so loud that you couldn't hear it anyway. It sounds great and has twice the power of my old amp. I sold my audiophile amp and spent the money more motorcycle gear.
i love my emotiva amps 2(A-300) 1(A-500) in the living room 1(A-800) running my bedroom all off of 2(Pioneer 701) and klipsch speakers
Must be nice to be able to bankroll tests that cost nearly 20 grand and have 50 grand speakers. 😅 Way out of touch for me.
that is nothing check out Jays Audio Lab
Huge fan of my Emotiva XPA-5 for home theatre gen 1 it was when Emotiva was huge bang for the buck. Makes me smile when I am listening to anything movies or music
Yup, same here XPA-5 Gen 1. Forgot how heavy the beast is too when I took it out to clean it for the first time since buying it about a month ago.
Every amp sounds the same
I like my Carver amps (x500, x760, x753). They sound smooth, natural, dynamic and fast. Virtually no noise either - s/n 120 db and no fan!!! I have been to a number of HiFi shows back in 90's when I lived in LA so I have heard extremely expensive stereo systems. My system may not be "the best" but it's far from being a piece of junk.
Thanks for the nice tips. Happy to hear about the EMOTIVA, that we bought one XPA-2 here in Brasil. We have a pair of Magnepans 3.6R and we hope to have a nice time with them.
Nad t758v3, picked it up for $1200 bout 6 months ago. I got crap from friends for it till I showed it to them then asked them to pick up the 34lb monster! Fact is there is a lot of myths that need to be debunked with facts and logic, I run mid level paradigm speakers and after watching a vid you recently put out have a max total of $200 for ALL of my cables! Friends are no longer giving me crap and now asking me to help them with their systems. Thanks for the honest advice!
I have an old (15 years maybe) Boulder 500AE stereo amp with some weird op-amp design. Via a pair of JM Labs Mini Utopia speakers, it sounds pretty good. Very revealing, smooth, great bass. Can't complain. Bought it second hand via my dealer for a steal and it's been rock solid since.
I’ve had some really expensive audio, but my older Audio Physics Virgos (blown woofers) were driven by a Bel Labs MK5 and Conrad Tube Premier 17LS Pre-amp. However my wife prefers the sound of my old Adcom GFA 555 II driven by an Acurus Pre-amp on my new Klipsch RP 8000Fs (& Klipsch 15 inch sub). So now I have all my high end cables on my cheaper stuff and it’s more satisfying than my high end system was. . So now I’m in a quandary what to do.
I got a demo Parasound 2350 Class D for around $900. 350wpc at 8 ohms, 600 wpc at 4 ohms. ICE modules.
13:19 I’ve been super happy with my a/b Emotiva 250/500 watt amp purchased a few years ago. This experience reinforces everything you cited in your video. It’s powered a wide variety of speakers including some difficult loads.
I appreciate your straight-shooting advice.
This is all above my head lol. I just like clear crisp highs. Mids that sound powerful and not tinny and bass that sounds good that doesn’t overwhelm the rest of the sound.
I'm waiting on a class D amp now, which I will hopefully get in February. It's based on the Hypex NCore tech, so should be pretty good. Very excited to hear the difference from my current class AB amp from around 2010.
Love these videos.
Well said. The amplifiers that I am still kicking around with is Parasound 2125 they support 2olm 4 and 8 . Bridged mono mode is 400 watts RMS in 8olms and 4 stereo mode 125x2 8olm 200x2 in 4. Im bi amping with those which is teamed up with my DENON AVR. My center is is running with DAYTON AUDIO APA150. I do have a sound reinforcement amp Steller LABS 3ch . 8000s model it has two fans in the back third channel is the sub channel which I am using for tactile shakers. 300watts in 8 480 watts RMS in 4. One day all do some changes but for now its doing the job.
Good content and delivery. Short, concise, sufficient visuals. A winning formula.
Thank you Gene for another informative and straight talking video. You have asked to comment on the amplifier we are using. In my case it is a NAD M22 class D power amp driving a pair of PMC Twenty.26 speakers. I am more than happy with the performance but to be honest I have not compared it with anything else, so whether my £2,400 would have been better spent on some other brand I have no idea. Hopefully not.
Right now, I use a Yamaha R-S 700 100 watt stereo receiver. I have a Quad 606 power amplifier which needs some repair, not easy in Canada, and the stereo receiver works so well I don't miss it. If I ever want separates, I would look at Bryston, a 3B should be plenty for me.
Most natural amps ( from what I had) - Linn AV 5105 power amp plus Linn Exotik preamp ( very detailed, very musical from analytic side sound , then, Luxman L 430 power amp ( separated from preamp), Yamaha P2201 power amp from 70', then, Roksan N3 (very detailed and very quick, but a bit harsh, regardless field transistors in output stage.
I've changed now to a new pre/amp combination using Class D (NUPRIME AMG PRA and AMG STA) and I'm very happy with the transparency, speed and detail I got at this price level. Thanks!
Amplifiers do sound very different one from the other . Thank you for a refreshing course on amplifier design and why they sound different from a technical stand point .
Emotiva A-300, Emotiva PT-100, Emotiva ERC-3, Emotiva T-2. Im loving it.
Im probably on the lower end of the spectrum..... I also use a set of B&W 604 series 3 in my system too. Always curious if a better amp would make a significant audible improvement.
Great video and thank you!!!
In one of my set ups I run the TA-100 as the pre (same as the PT-100 except can be a stand alone as well) and the A-300 except I went with the CD-100 in that set up. I run RF7 IIs with it. It has the ability to piss people off pretty far down the street
Excellent. Glad theres someone around that debunks the myths with testing, measuring and technical analysis. Please, can you do something on high priced DACs, CD transports, digital front ends, as I think lots of snake oil with this one as well.
Debunks the myths? I think he reinforces quite a few myths in this video.
I agree with Gene's presentation about amplifier design and sound. I have to Halfer 930 Transnova amps running as monoblocks; it's older technology but they perform extremely well
A great example of Class D done right is the Jeff Rowland amps, they're incredibly insightful yet musical, pretty counterintuitive before hearing them
Have many amplifiers! My preference is Parasound JC1's which drive Martin Logan Summit X. 1900W psu for a 400W amp. Lazy power is unbelievably real. Have still in use for the surround system, Bel Canto Ref1000, Rotel 1091 ( same class D module as BC Ref 1000 ) Krell FPB700CX ,Krell HTS, Harmon Kardon Signature, Harmon Kardon 8500 AVR used as power amp, Onkyo (9 channel for effects ). I have tri-amped speakers all around so need this many channels! Expensive amps definitely offers better sound but don't expect it to transform your system unless it is the real limiting factor. A well designed 50W amp is a lot of power with 90dBa speakers, as long as the power supply does not current limit.