Drum Corps Shows are TOO LONG
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Clip from Episode 113 of the Aged Out Podcast where hosts, Michael Fantini and Evan Worrell, discuss the length of drum corps shows.
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I don’t have as much expertise to comment on this stuff, but man, Cut-Outs was an absolute maximization of this “modern-day” DCI format. Non-stop entertainment, flowed and blended together perfectly, clean as a whistle, and still feels like drum corps. Used up every minute of the show to its full potential and doesn’t waste your time.
Longer shows are nice in theory, but they give more room for filler. Not only do shorter shows force designers to eliminate fluff, they also give room for the performers to clean their show to a nearly perfect polish. I’ve noticed a drop in visual quality since tbt rule change has been implemented. Now more than ever are there just blob to blob sets, because they’re easier to clean. If shows were about 11-12 minutes before, another 2 minutes is so much more!!
I personally think they should be 20-30 minutes each. They could have 6 drum breaks.
Maybe one of the props should have a hidden water tank so the hornline can catch a drink in the middle of it!
I think 10+ up to 2 minutes of pre show/announcment. If you look, our classics, tilt, e=mc all of these stick right around the 12 minute total mark, counting the intro sections
Evan FTW!!!
Thank you!!!
Also - the synthesized bass drops. At the end of every horn lick. And you are right-they’re all licks. There’s zero music. No drill. All theatrics. I get it that the activity is evolving, I totally do, it’s sure as hell not a local VFW competition anymore. Buuuut I really miss some challenging drill.
Madison's show is less than 10 minutes, They got their sub 10 minute rule change over the past season & ran with it.
I could see more corps doing that in the future if Madison gets success this year (makes finals)
1:40 The segmentality of modern drum corps shows, ironically, reminds me of the "variety show" approach to repertoire that drum corps had in the 70s and early 80s (not counting 1971 Cadets and a couple of pre-DCI experiments I can't remember off the top of my head. Strangely, however, that very era had far more hummable music than the 90s and thenceforth....
Back in the day, we didn't have Internet or Aged Out Reacts. A show had to be presented so that fans can pick up on the story or theme in some way, e.g. Spartacus. We had printed programs. Expensive? Yes. I have trouble understanding some of these shows today but maybe I shouldn't follow the snares around the circling, weather pattern drills. The color guards aren't telling the stories well anymore. I think it's because the band uniforms are now part of the color guard. I don't know where to look sometimes. Where is that solo coming from? I can't see the color guard dancing around him that tells me where to look because I can't tell them apart. Time isn't a problem for me. I think they speed the tempos up to cram in extra clicks for the drill. I prefer they slow down, write more meat instead of potatoes into the percussion battery, and use the clicks that they have more wisely.
They made a rule change several years ago where there are no show length limits as long as you fit your show within your performance time slot. Because of this, a lot of shows have gotten very long and are loaded with unnecessary filler. This is where Phantom's show is very nice to watch since it's just straight 11 minutes about of just opener - transition - ballad - transition - closer and done. Meanwhile, Crown's show makes me want to go on my phone while they play.
Even thinking about a phone during someones performance tells me you are mentally crippled.
10 minutes max is my vote!
Less material to learn + the same amount of rehearsal time = harder, better-performed shows.
Not to mention how it would shorten the actual competitions by quite a bit. They might even be able to start regionals in the afternoon!
Expect all the design folks in the activity to push back if the time limit ever gets put up for discussion. This is their playground, the members their toys. They won’t like their stuff being messed with.
Yep, put the judges back on the field. The one in Monroe, LA last night did try to move left and right every now and then but there was far too much gear in the way to expect him to do anything other than stand in front of the marimbas. Cavies' pit and SCV battery was terrific last night. SCV tenors had a nice sound. SCV snares were crackling like crazy. IDK the percussion scores but SCV percussion killed them all last night.
I really miss judges being on the field. I also agree with the lack of melody hooks. It feels like just about the time there’s about to be a cohesive pop.. it dissolves into something else completely. Kinda ADD like lol.
A few DCA groups (now All-Age of course) have started to shorten their shows a little bit to accommodate all the things you discussed, in addition to the shorter season, cost of spaces for rehearsal, etc. I imagine
I really enjoyed the CT Hurricanes the last few years including this year and I dont think any of their shows in that time were more than 9 or 10 mins. Felt like this years was even shorter when I saw it a month ago.
But damn were they entertaining and noticeably more fast-paced than other shows.. held my attention and felt more connected throughout the show I guess. Probably better for the every-day audience member too. Glad they've been working their way up and now in world class with buccs, cabs, bush, etc. Should keep things interesting.
Keep up the great works guys!
It’s not that they’re too long, it’s that most of them suck now. Designers have gotten lazy and there’s not enough money to go around. So the small corps are struggling to put shows on the field let alone shows that will entertain you. And the elite corps aren’t what the used to be. No uniforms, no exciting drill, etc.
That’s a little harsh but overall the quality of shows in the activity has steadily decreased following covid. And as someone who also loves this activity it’s tough to watch
The minimum show length was 11 1/2 minutes and a maximum of 13 minutes, IIRC. No pre-show.
In addition, the unofficial start of the season was Memorial Day weekend.
The first corps at DCI East prelims would go on at 7 am in the late 70s and early 80s.
I don’t know man, I think it has more to do with show design and/or arrangements that just aren’t that interesting. I think limiting shows to 10 minutes would make it even harder to pull off longer musical ideas and encourage even more of the “one random lick after another” trend we’ve seen recently
Evan I agree with you 100% on the melody, oftentimes I hear a show and then afterwards it’s like it was wiped from my memory.
Hard disagree. Shows are not too long, show designers have just been up their own rear ends for the last decade or so. The problem is Blue Devils have been winning year after year with crazy esoteric shows so everyone is trying to chase points on the judges sheet like them. The difference is not everyone has the talent pool of BD so those shows come off as less engaging since you are not getting the same visual and brass appeal so people just sit there in confusion. I think very few people would argue the Phantom's show is too long, or say Troopers 22, BK 15, Crown 16. All non winning shows that people will remember for a long time. TLDR; Corps just need to go back to designing shows for the fans instead of points on a sheet.
If you're at a live show, it doesn't feel that way. Watching anything on your phone for long will make you feel bored.
You guys hit the nail on the head here.
Tbf, i dont really think drum corps should have indoor drumline length shows like high school bands do
Constraints help narrow the focus when writing, length being an important one. More time thinking about fewer parts leads to stronger ideas and themes, just like good rock music: 2-3 strong ideas played and sung well, that's it.
I made a similar post on social media right after SW Championships. There are so many shows you could cut 1-3min out and lose nothing.
YES. per the latest lot vid, vanguard has something like 12:30 of playing time! i think they just ADDED like, a full minute?! i love scv, and they're shredding, but i have bills to pay! 10-11min is more than sufficient, imo
Best part of the day 6 1/2
Two things…There’s no need for your vulgarity. We’ve all heard it. Doesn’t add anything positive to your production.
Second, I like good, longer shows. Visa versa, I dislike short poorly designed shows. It’s not the length, it’s the quality.
I could also do without the electronic music and voiceovers!
I enjoy voiceovers in a cosmic sort of way when they're done live and in-person. Not because they're good, but because they're usually hilariously cheesy.
@@MicahtheDrumCorpsPseudoboomersurf 24 moment
While I do agree with the voice overs, I feel like electronic music still adds to the shows, especially knowing that there is a human synth player playing them.
@@jamoanimations8892 Have you seen 1985 Boston Crusaders? It's the very first use of a synthesizer in drum corps, and because synthesizers of that day were far less complex than today's synthesizers, I find that show to be much more engaging than modern shows with synthesizers. Give that show a listen and tell me what you think!
A comment for the code!
For the algorithm. ✊
HARD AGREE. THEY ARE WAY TOO LONG. 7.5 - 8 seems like a good average. I feel like the activity would progress further in so many ways and save so much money if they just reduced the amount of time they spent performing shows. All of the benefits that would come from reducing show lengths could be it's own damn episode truly.
Like forreals, groups would save money. Design won't need to be as convoluted. Ideas and the execution of the ideas need to be streamlined, which is better for audience engagement and retention and friendlier to newcomers to the activity, which serves as a better mechanism to grow the activity. Not to mention the social media boom that can come from shorter shows? Think of all the clippable moments that can help increase the net drum corps can reach out too. We're really kneecapping ourselves with these ever increasing filler full shows. The students are performing their asses off yeah, but it's a big ask to ask us as participants to sit through 10 corps taking 12 minutes each to perform, 3 minutes to set up and 3 minutes to get off the field. But if it's 8 minute performance times with 6 prep and clean up? Damn that's way more manageable all of a sudden.
Completely disagree, should be 15 minutes minimum
You've lost your mind if you think they are too long. Clearly your attention span is just too short.
Or maybe the show just isn't good enough at sustaining one's attention. If Mussorsky's Pictures at an Exhibition (the orchestral rendition, not 1986 SCV, 1987 SCV, 2012 SCV Cadets, or 2012 Madison Scouts) can sustain my attention the entire way through, then surely drum corps arrangers can arrange something that can keep my ears engaged.
this sure sounds a lot more like an issue of show design rather than the run time
@@nick2electricboogaloo589 having no run time limit encourages lazy show design.
@@nick2electricboogaloo589 I still think that run time is something of a factor, because as a show goes on for longer, it becomes more difficult for the arranger/composer/drilldesigner to sustain the audiences' attention.