As a member of one of the corps featured in this video and watching DC since 76, I can say yes the horn lines were louder than today. And surprisingly many times in tune with great professionalism. I'm a percussionist but I always took the every chance to sit inside the arc of my corps. Amazing results back then with the technology and season as it was. However, horn lines of today are much cleaner often (to me) with fantastic musicianship. Great job to "the kids" of every generation of DCI.
They would never be able to reach that level w/o being only allowed to march heel&toe, their microphones, and ESPECIALLY deciding to junk the competition bugle in favor of - well, let's face it! - making them ALL trumpets, just like they'd been learning on since they were 6. I cannot count the amt of times I had to.endure the brags of all those high school musicians who touted their own superiority to drum corps kids who didn't take music lessons @ all at the time and how simple it was to be out there playing an old bugle. Then, when they finally succumbed to the urging of their drum corps friends & joined a corps, they finally quit in disgust bcs they were making too many mistakes & it was too hard. Besides, I inevitably woukd hear from them, it could ruin their lip. 🙄
And as a former Soprano, I like listening to the drum line, as an ensemble and in groups. Nothing like a solid bass drum line. I was in corps from 76 to 82, four different corps. I finally made the Show my age out year.
Love the TITLE. I marched in SCV in 79. I remember feeling a wall of sound come from the stands as the colorguard got ready for the Bottle Dance. After that you couldn't hear anying but white noise. I couldn't even hear my own horn. Unless you were there, no one knows how F**ing load Spirit was during the "soft" section of Let it Be Me as they faced backfield. We were usually on the back sidelines getting our ears punctured
Im 12 yrs late to your comment, but after seeing SCV at competition in Birmingham, Al in 1977 - 78(?), our high school band became corp- like, our colorguard together with drum major and majotettes did the bottle dance, then at the end of the song, we ALL fell on the ground like we were dead! People would come to the ballgames, just to watch us at halftime, and a standing ovation every Friday night. What was bad though, is that the other teachers at the school became so insanely jealous of our director, that they started viscious rumors about her. She eventually resigned. Members dropped from 105 to around 40. It was never the same again.
What I can't understand is why young folks think a 40 year old, obviously poor, analog recording is at all an accurate representation of the power,glory and beautifully stacked sound of a G horn line! Most of the "intonation problems" in these clips are a recording issue, not a performance issue...I'm no recording engineer, but it seems pretty obvious that whatever mikes were used were just "overwhelmed" by the sound.
Amen brother - and it's more than that, it's heritage. D&B Corps grew out of a military background when the bugle called for a troop movement, and the drums kept the cadence of that movement. Technically, they aren't even D&B Corps now, they're Drum and Brass (and keyboard, and singing, and backgound audio, etc.) Corps.
love it!! I was in SCV's horn line in 79. When we started the Bottle Dance, the crowd was SOO Loud I couldn't even hear the notes that were coming out of my horn. There was just a wall of sound that came from the stands. Gives me goosebumps thinking about even today.
I have been following Drum and Bugle corps since 1974, and I still have not seen anything as amazing as the glory days from 1979 to 1984-85. Those years had people who weren't afraid to let the horn lines loose, and let everyone play. I also agree with the previous poster who stated that in most drum corps before 1990, if a Kid could play a note, but was broke, he or she could find a place to march. It kept a lot of kids off the streets, and showed them the USA. It opened a lot of eyes.
This popped up today and WOW! I remember class A and Class B Championships back then, even earlier in the late 1950s. Those judges were practically under our feet! Those were the best times - very professional music with excellent horns and drums - and the marching, with the synchronized maneuvers with flags and rifles.. Didn't need some of what I see now. It seems somehow pure in retrospect. So glad this came up today, makes me want to search for some old friends!
Being a younger guy, I always wondered why everyone is complaining that they don't like how DCI is today. I personally think it's amazing in this era, but after seeing this video, I can see how people like the old times better. I still love both, there's just different forms of intensity between now and then, but I love them both! Thanks for posting this!
Three words: Wall. Of. Sound. No audio recording does justice to those hornlines. You actually had to be in front of them and literally "feel" the sound with your entire body. We were on a couple tours with Spirit and even their warm up would blow you away. J.Delius - Mello - Pride of Cincinnati '82
I marched in 1979 and 1983 DCI Finals. I remember each of these and all I can say is OH YEAH!! I design sound reinforcement and studio recording systems and sell their gear for a living. While the ability to mic some pit instruments for tonal variety is nice, there is nothing LESS exciting than seeing or hearing a synth of any kind. One of my favorite rules as a musician and in life is "The more limited you are, the more creative you can be." That is why old corps was so great. With Drums, Brass, and visual expression, amazing emotions were communicated! Now, there is no limit, therefore overall, there seems to be less creativity. Plus, horns back then were designed to play loudly and were in the key of G. Maybe DCI is more refined now, but Roy is correct in posting the raw energy that was produced back then. I think I will go do some Goldman exercises at ALL dynamic levels LOL - Patrick Dennis
I marched from 76 - 82. I was in four different corps, finally made finals the last year I was eligiable. I quite drum corps all together in 2004. I cannot watch it anymore. It has changed so much and not for the better. I guess that is what they call progress. Thank you for the compilation. And to all of you who think Amplification is the way to go, I present my B valve finger to you!
Agree ! DCI is just different today. Too much focus on the "down front" action and the smaller emphasis on a marching show ! They used to blow you back into your seat with that explosion of low brass power !!!!!!
Thanks for putting this on! We marched bugles in the 70s and loved it. Band was a blast...but we lived for Drum and Bugle Corps!!! We loved the difference. Now, thanks to George Hopkins and the Cadets, there is no difference! What a shame!!!!!
I think what's striking about these short clips is the sheer size of the crowd and the intensity of the crowd response....thanks for posting! Signed, an 80's "Red Team" alum
no goosebumps in the music. That is EXACTLY right. I saw DCI finals a few years ago (at the Rose Bowl). Perfectly executed shows.. well played... the best corps in the world. but no goosebumps... no "oh my God" moments. There was that one corp that had microphones on people with (sorry) inane comments being made throughout their show. "The rules" gave them a good score... but man... the rules have to be changed or something.
Thank you for the reminder of what it was all about. It has been 3 decades since I spent so many hours sweating on the field and on the bus, but still, nothing vibrates my soul like the sound of drums and BUGLES.
Thumbs Up HE360!!!!!! I never missed a show during the glory days; now I never go see one. This is EXACTLY when DCI was great. 70's and 80's rule! 27th doing Folk Song Suite, great stuff !
Jeremy got it right. Drum & BUGLE Corps mutated, INTO GOOD MARCHING BANDS! I loved marching band and loved Drum Corps! BUT I WAS THRILLED WITH THE DIFFERENCE!!! There was no need for the loss of bugles. It's like...Drum Corps was white paint and bands black paint. You kept pouring the black paint in until the white was completely gone. Now it's ALL BAND!
It's not hating on the present just fondly remembering the past. I was one of those high school marching band geeks some of the posters are talking about. Back in 1977 I would have given my (name the body part) to have been able to join any one of the Drum and Bugle Corps of the day. I am glad to know that DCI is helping to keep the tradition, with evolution, going. March on!
No evolution is happening. Their visual people are all frauds. They are judging visual design not the corps members. Their visual people have no art degrees or training. They are incompetent. Its all about raiding high school boosters of their money with show design. The corps shows are ugly. Bad art is always over-complex and that describes what they have become perfectly. Instead of selling the performers talents and competition, they are selling the designs of amateurs. Hence 30 corps remain and half cant draw a crowd. Too bad. I marched 13 years Jr corps. At that time the score sheets were about US. We had control of our destiny. No so today.
@superdupercrazy232 'You can't accept change'...oh boy, a deep thinker. Change can be good or bad as it is just the delta between two defined states. Your comments are naive and insulting to what came before you. If you truly understood the foundation of Drum & Bugle Corps and had experienced what it was like before it was intentionally transformed and neutered, you would easily recognize the modern DCI experience as nothing more than Marching Band pretending to be Drum & Bugle Corps. If the low-life George Hopkins and company had started a new 'YEA' enterprise apart from Drum & Bugle Corps as it was around 1983 they would have eventually lost that competition. They knew that. And another related point, the snare drums designed for Indoor activities should remain there - they can't produce a real rim-shot to save their life! They do not sound like snare drums and I know a lot about what real snare drums sound like. Give me the Bridgemen, Blue Devils, Santa Clara, Madison, etc of the early to mid 80's - the drill designs were organically evolving to a point that added a visually artistic layer to the Drum & Bugle Corps foundation. Drum & Bugle Corps energized the audience. Running around at fulll speed without the drum line anchoring the precision and feel necessary for a Drum & Bugle Corps experience does NOT energize the audience. I am 100% right. Sorry.
hey folks, part of the beauty of music is that there is more than enough to go around for ALL of us! It doesn't matter who was better, who was bigger, who was faster, etc.. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT WE WERE THERE, WE ENJOYED IT, AND THANKS TO YOU TUBE AND GUYS LIKE THIS WE STILL DO !!!!!
It's the raw energy that gets me pumped! I think Americans were less angry back then and full of vigor. Watch old football games from that time period, people are much more joyous
When intonation wasn't required in drum corps, but seriously why can't we just love drum corps both for what it was and what it is now? If modern corps didn't have earlier corps it wouldn't be what it is today. If early corps is all there was a lot of young people would miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime to do something bigger than themselves and perform some awesome shows while they're at it. Let's just love drum corps as a whole.
I love how this comment has no attention, its just fundamentalist people bitching about the 'good ol days' and people (like me) who are bitching at the people who are bitching about what we love.. andhere we have someone trying to quel the argument between two different groups and is getting no recognition. Thank you, sir
Sorry-have to disagree. I came from a region of the country where there was no drum corp. I was in band all through college. I know amphlifacation was discussed, but if it had been adopted, I would have been gone!!
I have the pleasure and honor of knowing Mr Martin. Not only is he a music educator of the first order his DCI pedigree is without question. That being said I am somewhat old school marching and he, of course, is the new. The use of amplification I have witnessed seems to bury the natural sound of the contras. I marched Contra and know full well how much power sound those produce. I would give all to totally ban the use of electronics. However it is neigh near impossible to recruit true low brass these days so the corps have to do What they can to produce a balanced sound. I dislike it passionately but I would take a bullet for ANYONE in ANY DCI/DCA corps. Keyboardists included.
Comparing today's Corps with yesteryear's is like comparing apples and oranges. Please don't. Standards were different back then, and trying to compare them is unfair to both groups. I marched in the 1970's for a DCI corp, and appreciate how DCI has evolved over the years. If I had any comment on the subject, I would say that sometimes, the old days of choreography were much better than today, but that is a personal opinion. I look forward to opening night of the 2014 season, and helping to support DCI's newest Open Class corp in the Pacific Northwest.........Eruption Drum & Bugle Corp!
Yeah, I agree. Perfect illustration of what we always knew: One side is drum corps. The other is "band", which went ahead & proved it was a whole other thing. Hence the amplification.
I wasn't going to comment, but some of the comments are just silly. Bb three valve horns are purchased and played today because they can be resold to public school marching bands, where a G bugle is impossible sell. DCI created the activity we know today. Everybody may not agree on what it has become, but we should all support the members of the past, present, and future. Like most things in life, is not about the destination, but the journey. The shows of today, do not diminish the shows of yesterday and vise versa. Everyone puts in the hard work all summer to put on the best show of their life. It doesn't matter if you're World or Open (Open or A Class), Drum Corps and DCI provides the best leadership and personal responsibility education available anywhere. Lets all support and celebrate that and not criticize the past or present, but prepare for the future. Thanks for posting and support Drum Corps!
One I think deserving of mention is how powerful and crisp Suncoast Sound was in the mid-late 80s, they were kinda rare in the transition from old school to 3 valve bugles. How those kids got that much sound from bugles is amazing. These kids today don't realize how good they have it with their fully sponsored b flat gear. Blast from the past, thanks for posting!
Aside from the well-made horn, mouthpiece, mouthpiece, mouthpiece. When they finally gave my section our new Olds horns, I was given a new mouthpiece that kind of resembled a golf tee. The very first night @ practice, we nearly blew the watching fans across the parking lot! 😆
Personally, I think today's Drum Corps sound better than ever. Especially with how difficult the drill is that they perform. Jazz running at a BPM higher than 180 and still playing with a great sound is an amazing feat.
I first got introduced to DCI in 1979 and attended shows until 2005. I truly appreciate you posting these videos. They really are a huge blessing to me to see these corps again during DCI’s Golden Era. God bless.
The recording's audio quality is pathetic because it's a recording of a recording. (And might have been spliced a third time.) But numerous other videos of 70's and 80's corps have much better audio quality.
THIS IS FREAKING AWESOME!!!! Thanks for sharing. I marched 1992-94, but I got to "enjoy" a valve/rotor Contra so technically I'm still part of "old school" drum corps.
Preach it brother!!! Electronics have no place in Drum Corp. I rips at the integrity of Drum Corp and marching music in general. And I also agree 100% with the fact that the power of the brass has been missing for years. Drum Corp has become "artsy" and has lost the different identities that several have spoke of. Very sad. I miss the old days of back-field warmups and 100+ decibels pushed to the press box - back when drum corp was awe inspiring.
I like the old times, simple but great, but i also like the new times, complex and amazing. I think what we need to understand is the time and generation differences we have here. Stuff they had back then is Totally different form what we have today, and both times are fantastic. However you do need to understand that times Do change. You can look at that in a good way or bad way, but change is inevitable. This year in 2017 dci looks like wgi but on a field. One of my favorite shows is Madison Scouts 1988. that's almost 30 years ago. Another show i think is great is Bluecoats 2016. Both Amazing shows in my opinion. But there is a big time difference there and you need to understand that. Now you can have you can have your opinions and i can have mine, but you at least need to understand what's going on there. And despite what other people may say, i'll still love dci.
I love this video. When I look at this video, I'm sorry to say, but I personally think drum corps back then had more excitement. I'm glad this video was posted. It shows the true essence of drum corps and what drum corps should be all about and it's the kind of video I'd like to show to people.
The comments on old drum corps videos make me so mad that I hardly want to watch them. No matter what type of show you like, or how you feel about Bb bugles you have no right to put down the people who devote their summers to this activity. DCI needs all the support it can get, and it really hurts me to see the alumni who should be excited about this activity and trying to encourage people to join tearing it down instead. The style of the shows and the music and the colorguard work especially is so different. You really can't even compare them, and I wish we could all just take a second to realize that it's not about the scores or the precision or the kind of bugles, it's about the experience.I personally do not at all like the way colorguard work was designed pre-late 90s, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the incredible precision of the old guards, and it definitely does not mean I need to put them down. Please just stop debating about which was better because all it does is tear apart the community and hurt the activity.
If audiences are shrinking, and people who participated for years can't be bothered to attend, doesn't that maybe suggest that the activity has taken a wrong turn?
@@PrairieBoy99 It seems to be less about the musician and more about the entertainment value -- as in broadway productions. Get back to putting the emphasis on drums and horns and less on flags, rifle lines and stage production!!!
PrairieBoy99 As a performer in DCI, I can tell you without a doubt attendance is not shrinking. There are big, loud, cheering crowds everywhere(except New York because New York sucks 😂). The world championships has more and more people every year. If people didn’t come to watch me I wouldn’t participate in the activity. I guess the old people who aren’t interested anymore wouldn’t know that because they don’t go to shows. It’s ok, the people that care and support the activity replace you, and more and more people are coming every year.
@@noahharber9936 If you're a current DCI performer, then your perspective about crowd size is limited to the last few years, whereas I'm talking about the last several decades. I'm just under 50, and when I was 12 my Canadian city had a DCI corp along with two drum & brass marching bands for 12-18 year-olds. It now has no marching ensembles for mid-teens and higher. This occurred although the city population is now twice as large as when I was a kid. Marching ensembles just aren't on peoples' radar anymore. The repertoire list at the DCX website shows 67 junior corps (excluding feeder-corps) in 1982 but only 43 in 2019. That's a third fewer corps, though the US population is 100 million larger now than in 1982. Something has gone wrong. I can say unequivocally that if I turn off the visual & listen only to the music, I find very little appealing about today's DCI shows. The music certainly isn't memorable, which is a shame because today's performers (including you!) are absolutely incredibly talented - my hat is off to you! But I think that the talent is misdirected towards creating "art" instead of creating "entertainment." I know whereof I speak: I love jazz, and after starting out in marching band, played a mean bebop/hard bop trumpet through my school years and into my undergrad years. But I also readily acknowledge that once jazz veered into becoming "art" instead of "entertainment", it lost the vast majority of the music-listening public. This seems to be happening to DCI, and I hope they change course before they discover they've rendered themselves invisible and irrelevant to the broader public.
PrairieBoy99 Although there are less corps now than in the past attendance to shows is no less. It is very expensive to run a drum corps now, and a lot of corps folded because of money. Including mine 2 times. There may be less corps, but In my experience the stands have always been full. My only complaint is when I was in open class our venues kinda sucked. The crowds were still there but the fields sucked. I as a performer know that this is an art. It’s talked about all the time. Art is entertainment though. Why would we read books, watch movies, or listen to music if it wasn’t for our entertainment. All of those are various art forms, and drum corps is no different. I find any drum corps show I watch entertaining no matter what year. The thing that kills us is when we want to connect to the members of our corps who marched before us but they hate the activity now.
It just seems like drum corps doesn't have the heart and spirit anymore like it did back then. I marched 76 - 80 and I know we were no where good as the kids marching these days but even though I've tried, I just can not get into the new things they are doing. It saddens me to see most of the drum line piled up in heap on the sidelines also.
Funny you should mention that because I carried the 23" tymp my second season and the 26" tymp for the next 2 seasons. We had to carry them in a few parades as well which was much worse than carrying them in a show. We also grounded them during our concert number. So I guess my answer would be; "Yes, I did prefer to carry the tymps because I gladly did for 3 seasons." I also recall Santa Clara never grounding their tymps at all. The actually took the legs off them. They used the Slingerland tymps. We marked the Ludwig which I always thought was a heavier model. We never saw tymps get grounded for an entire show until the Kilts did it in 78 or 79, I don't recall.
I love both, and have minimal gripes about both styles. As a whole, people were easier to impress with everything bitd not just drum corps. You will never see this type again except DCA. I would be interested in hearing a G line with Crown '12-'13, arguably the best hornlines ever.
I honestly think one reason why amplification is needed today is because many shows require more physical stamina. So when the big moment comes, the horns are too tired to play as loud as they truly could. But that's just my opinion.
Was waiting for someone else to notice. If you notice, today much if the most complicated drill parts are done when the horn line isn't playing. You very rarely hear them play all together for a full number either. And when they're not, it's the percussion "bells" that are - & let's face it: They just stand there. That vaunted difficulty I see the music majors & part time instructors swooning abt would not be possible if the horns weren't spending so much time laying out, waiting for it.
Old School Fair enough, but everything changes, even DCI. To be honest, I'm young (15) and even I don't like the introduction of French Horns, Trombones, etc. that much. It made for some cool solos/features, but I hope all the corps don't use it as a trope every single year. Let's just hope for the best and keep praising those performers for their undeniable hard work and killer performances.
Nythlen DCI has changed Drum Corps into some kind of theatrical nonsense I like the old military style drum and bugle Corps precision discipline and quite frankly the music was very good drum and bugle Corps today is very different from what I did as a kid and I think that is very sad that drum and bugle Corps are so rare today
To expand on sub's comment, absolutely. The kids do a great job today. They're just missing out. In my day we got the crowds up and screaming with cool drill, power chords and loudness. We listened for the pretty melodies on cd later. While they do what's asked of them, work hard, and perform well, they don't get the payoff of having crowds erupt throughout the whole show, which always hyped me up huge. Watch BD this yr, then BD in '84 and hear the crowd. Bring back G bugles, and lose the mics..
in the 70's and 80's, each top 12 corps had soprano soloists that could be heard anywhere, in any stadium, without amplification. The G soprano could project like crazy, and a decent player could put any note anywhere they wanted. I was in Birmingham, Alabama in 1979, and I heard Madison Scouts practicing. I thought they were about a mile away, and tried to find where they were practicing. After following the sound until I found them, I realized they were 5 MILES away!!!!!
1979... I was 9 years old and my dad was one of the organizers of "Invitation Quebec", the biggest DCI competition to be held outside the US. Drum Corps got so big in Quebec that DCI held the 1981 and 1982 championships at Montreal's Olympic Stadium... man, those were the days !!!!!
I was in drum corp back in the late 60's; best time of my growing up. I've read some of these comments and I'm disgusted. If you want people to spend their hard earned money on your shows then I would be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. Many of us crazy old people posting are actually the ones paying for the tickets to watch your shows. Obviously, some of you can't share your opinion without sounding trashy and demeaning. I'm going to believe that the majority of drum corp today appreciate their beginnings ...otherwise I can spend my money elsewhere.
First, I’ll admit this. When I was marching in the late 70’s and early 80’s there is no way I could have performed some of these compositions nor could I have performed some of these choreography moves corps do today. Today’s corps look and sound good However, they should. They operate under a different set of rules and use different instruments. They also have better tools at their disposal. I’m sure the choreography for these shows wasn’t designed with a pencil and graph paper. I’m also fairly certain the compositions today’s corps play weren’t arranged on manuscript paper. The issue is not whether old drum corps is better than new drum corps but rather is the new brand of drum corps is entertaining. Sadly, I have to say no. Watched the 2017 DCI prelims at one of the local theaters. Felt like I was watching a series of Off Broadway plays with excerpts from the Berlin Atonal Festival. Out of 15 corps not one really excited me. There were no memorable moments. Was the music complex? Yes. Were the show designs intricate? Yes. But the shows weren’t exciting. They seemed to be devoid of any emotion or excitement. The props and electronics seemed to detract from the show rather than enhance it. I thought it might be the speaker system but when they played some excerpts of past performances (70's, 80's, and 90's,) I actually felt something. No, drum corps should not return to piston rotor horns and drummers carrying field tymps and xylophones. I’ll even accept the use of other brass instruments. However, when a drum corps has 8 singers with microphones (Cadets), and scaffolding on the field (Bluecoats and Blue Devils), in my opinion it’s not drums corps…it’s some kind of outdoor stage production. Old style drum corps may have been simplistic and imperfect, but at least it had feeling. I’ll accept the scaffolding and electronics when program designers put some excitement back into their shows.
Dave -- I'll go one step further ... how many of today's units move and play simultaneously?!? Today's "drum corps" is more like concert band on a domed football field, because THAT is the final venue they must consider when they design a show (Lucas Oil Field with the roof closed -- have they EVER done Championships there and opened the roof?) -- Phantom and their 4-to-5 while playing being one of the FEW exceptions ... What broke it for me was two-fold -- the Bluecoats electronic (pre-recorded?) "bend" and the way that DCI kept pounding on Madison as the Scouts tried to stay true to their "Please the crowd" ethos ... DCI will NEVER get another penny from me.
But don't forget the fact that these are G Bugles, not trumpets, etc. The Corps you see in this video are the guys who laid the framework for today's "Generation". They are your instructors, Corps Directors, Band Directors, Drill instructors, show designers of today. I can't say today's Corps are musically advanced than earlier Corps, different instruments, different arrangements. The Blue Devils you see today didn't just start winning Championships in 2000. True Drum Corps fans love it all.
Look at today's drills. There's more stop-time now than there was then, if you add it all up. Drills got a lot harder than these, yes, but they've become a lot easier over the last ten years or so.
TheNapkinOfTruth - back when sound was not scarified for high speed M&M. Its a pity that you can't move like today and still project the power of yesteryear.
While these corps sound loud and everything, they aren't doing anything nearly as complex musically or visually. It's not hard to be loud playing unisons--its a lot harder to be loud while playing complex, fluid chord progressions, which corps are accomplishing VERY well today. Not to mention they are basically jogging while they do it now. The corps today have superior intonation as well, which really brings out the overtone series in the big moments. There's a place for all of these traditions, but to say that modern drum corps requires amplification is a bit ridiculous, considering the musicians participating today are performing on quite a superior level in comparison.
@@Fos3tex And you're just the asshole old man stuck in his ways and unaccepting of change. Cause while these are good, they're just not as good to watch as shows now. And the fact that you're going to go around hating on someone because of their opinion is a little assholish of you.
I'm old school. 46. I loved bending back and blasting away. You can't march today's shows with yesterday's sound. I would definitely prefer dumbing down the visual presentation to improve the audio!
If it's as "old school" as I say u are, then I guess u don't remember ur instructor telling u that "bend'g back" & leading w/ur crotch has nothing to do w/the volume u put out. And in fact u can hurt urself.
@@g.hon.4645 Hmm. I never hurt myself. That, hon, is a fact. Whether it be bending back or not, my band blew the others off the field. We didn't before we started bending back. We did after. That, hon is a fact. Do not state opinion as fact. Bottom line, we managed to play solos without amplification and every person in the stands heard me. I had friend on the visitor's side that had no difficulty hearing me. That, hon, is a fact.
Don't take the poor sound recording as "proof" of intonation problems. If you think the corps sounded as "tinny" in person as they do on this poor recording you are sadly, sadly mistaken. The power (not just volume, but an indescribable POWER!) of the g bugle is not given it's fair due in this clip!
John, in this particular example the drill formation killed the music. They brought the low voices & harmony rt down to the sidelines & walled off the sopranos. I heard The same presentation before that yr & after that yr. They never made that mistake again.
@G. Hon. To be honest, this recording makes all the corps sound a bit "blatty" and unbalanced (not that I think they were...it is just a poor quality recording!) and I couldn't be sure which group you were referring to...to my ear Santa Clara doesn't sound any more unbalanced than 27th Lancers or Bridgemen...but maybe the difference was more apparent in person.
I was at DCI west in Boise Idaho 1979, and saw Vanguard doing the bottle dance! Goose bump moment ! I was in the Percussion Naut Patriots and a hopeless drum corps fan! Especially after that night in Boise! I almost...marched with the Madison Scouts in 1981, they were waiting for me but I flaked out...Still to this day regret not getting in that bus!
Didn't cost you 10,000.00 dollars to march in the 60's to 70's. That's why it was better and louder. G horns are a different animal than Bflat. Built to be loud.
Correct in order to play those horns you had to be really good with your ear and lip or the mistakes would show. But then you had 42 horns harder to cover up the mistakes now 110 horns ......really.
I was a Bluecoat in 75. I had a one vavle and one rotary G soprano bugle. I loved corp and still like to see the Bluecoats when I can. (Im still a local Ohio guy) We were a JR corp when I was in and nothing will ever match the 27th lancers in 1980 for me. They set the bar that has been unmatched in my opinion. After saying that. I am proud to have been a Bluecoat. I am proud of what they have accomplished. Go Blooooooo.
Exactly, those WERE the days and as you said everyone freaked when mallet percussion was introduced. People will always have issues with change but things must change with time.
"...everybody freaked..." not bcs of mallet-playing. This was a move by the DCI honchos to widen the scope of the drum section. They wanted Glockenspeils. They wanted "bells". They had made an outright grab for introducing keyboards in 1971 when at a big spring standstill event @ the Holmdell Center in NJ GARFIELD ( later: " The Cadets") came marching out on stage dragging their keyboards & guitars & amps w/them. Those who "freaked" knew where it was gonna lead. And here we are.
Ahh yes the G bugle, a piston and a rotor. I played Contra, and it was hard for 15 min. you blow your brains out and march. Today they blow their brains out, dance and make what ever they are playing sound good...that is very hard and they are a lot better than we were back in the 70's, however the style is no longer just brass and drums with some flags and rifles, its dance and a symphonic orchestra.
They also use the keyboard to overcome weakness in the bass tones, but it isn't the fault of the players. It is the horns. Back in '93, when PR marched 14 contra basses, it was considered an intriguing novelty. Now 12-14 is the requirement.
I don't think you've ever sat on the 35 yard line, 5 rows up at a show in 2016. I can promise you that the amplification is on more than just timpani and soloists.
Sam Shelley - I am well aware of how the system works, thank you. Excuse my lack of use of the word "typically" or "usually". But don't assume my experience or where I've been at or in a drum corps show. . .
Typically and usually the keyboard(s) as well as the marimbas are mics. Actually, most of any top 12 pit is miced, with the exceptions being a loud acoustic instrument (crash cymbal). For example, BD often has the synth play the horn book (during impact moments) with the generated sound derived from an audio recording of the hornline itself. Carolina Crown will often have the hornline play perfect fifths during impact moments and the synth will fill in the third.
You do realize you are diminishing the capabilities of (probably) the most talented hornline in DCI? The caliber of player in modern DCI is just so much better than "the old days".
It would be nice if the crowd would shut up a little though. Maybe that's why we use amplification now. Hearing the subtleties in a show is more important than just blasting the whole time so you can play over the crowd.
Change is inevitable not optional! Please some one tell me that having marching tympani's was a good idea! Nothing is every perfect but look at the advances in the modern drum cops!
Thank god I did not march tymps there have been many back issues from those and bass #5! Modern groups are light years ahead in every area of performance! Get out of the way for the future-OLD SCHOOL
I did and it sucked! I love all era's of drum corps and think that modern stuff is great. I have been around itsince 1970 and am a proud parent of a current pit member. Don't be close minded.
Ah yes, if you wanted to play it, you had to march it! And if you wanted to use props, you had to find a clever way to "sneak" them onto the field without the audience being distracted by them.
Lol, we agree to disagree. I just took out my g bugle and my Bb trumpet myself. Went out to the backyard, belted out a couple of F's. The neighbor was CLEARLY more annoyed at the brighter and louder timbre of the G bugle and let me know it. Not scientific, but my argument stands, G bugles are easier to play louder, thus are inherently louder.
To me the late 90s were the best years in DCI. The new 3 valve horns, while still G-bugles, the new drill concepts, new guard choices for equipment, it all produced some of the best shows. Like Star 93, Madison's mid 90s, 97 BD, 98 Cadets etc. Less was more! With the Coats throwing down Tilt and making amplification likeable it will be interesting to see how this evolves. The Cadets perform the crap out of their shows but music does not require voice to create emotion. All the directors have lost sight of that to further the "art". If that's what it takes to keep kids interested and keep DCI in existence I'll take it.
These corps were not necessarily out of tune recording devices back in the 70s and 80s were terrible, trust me the ladies and gentlemen would have known if they were In tune or not my band director was drum major of that last group, spirit, and trust me they placed 4th they weren't out of tune.... You want argue with me on this message me on google....
+Ken Scarlett Funny, seeing as that was the primary reason they were totally outstripped by the B flat horns. Nobody's required to march G bugles, yet LITERALLY no drum corps besides alumni groups (I wonder why?) march them. Simply, in comparison to a B flat hornline literally the only thing they have is volume, and if it sounds like shit, who cares how loud they play? B flat gives performers a much better opportunity to shine.
The reason why no one marches G horns anymore is purely economics. A corps get Bb horns cheaper from manufacturers because they are not special instruments. They are literally the same instrument that the HS marching band down the street uses. THEN they can unload the whole lot of them onto a HS or college music department when they want new ones. So instead of marching the same beat up G horn season after season because it's too expensive to replace, you can get a brand spanking new Bb horn.
+Ouity yeah just look at what the guy posted below G bugles are too expensive to replace now a days and the reason all age corps sound meh is because let's face it they are as good as you ouity... Douche... Bb trumpets are a dime a dozen now a days and trust me if you had Been there in the 70s and 80s I can guarandamntee you wouldn't be saying ooooo it's out of tune...
I've listened to recordings of big hits that make me want to put my keyboard through my left ear. But I digress, even if the tuning was flawless, there are a myriad of other reasons for the change to be a positive one. For starters, no youths know how to play a bugle. Allowing folks to play on the instruments they use in the sit-down band word makes the learning curve nonexistent, and the quality of performance higher. For me, G Bugles represent an era of boring shows and crummy design. Just look at the first four or so clips in this video, that's all I got through. A big, standstill company front style set where everybody gets on their knees and plays real loud. There's no movement, no effect, nothing that makes me admire their skill. Time goes on, and I'd rather watch a 2000's show than a 60's show any day of the week.
"No youths know how to play a bugle"...???? For starters, fingerings for all piston 2v and 3v G horns are pretty much the same as Bb horns. The only difference was the relative pitch of the notes (bugle being slightly lower).....The only kids who have learning curve issues are kids who played either trombone or French horn or switched over from woodwind to brass.....which is the same challenge as Bb horns.
My god, this brings back memories...Corps used to go "Balls to the Wall" and Spirit was the loudest, they could literally knock the stands back a foot, all the corps, knew how to play not only loudly, but with control, and in tune, which was not easy with the old style bugles. Sitting in the stands, you were blown away with the musicianship, and today, with yelling on the field, mics, and any other kind of amplification, ruins it. Bring back the old days. when a corps did it on their own!
Totally agree with this. A good soprano, mello or bari soloist could definitley be easily heard above the horn line and battery. While in "band" I played a Mount Vernon Bach 43 star that I thought could wail. WHen I picked up my first G Soprano and learned to fill it up, I was amazed at the volume of sound it could produce. It's almost like there was a little guy inside cranking an air raid siren and the full soprano sound coming out.
What I don't understand is why people think "louder" is always better. Yeah, these corps were loud. But were they in tune? Kinda. Today's corps are not as loud, but are they in tune? Yes they are. I've never heard better playing outside of modern drum corps. I respect everybody that has marched and is currently marching, but you have to give credit where it's due. Modern drum corps are superior is virtually every category.
Nicholas Brister I'm sure everyone doesn't think this. Love it for what it is. It's all good; the early corps and the corps today. Amplification or not it was people doing what they loved to do and others appreciating it.
+Nicholas Brister Well said, but to add to that, you have to consider that now drum corps has just as much physical demand as musical. It's not so much that modern corps are using new technology to cheat as some think, but rather drum corps is and has been evolving.
+Loopy Bass have you seen the audience reactions to Crown the last couple years? If that's not "going absolutely ape s*** like they used to back in the day." I don't know what is.
Ok amplification might not of been needed back then but our corps sound a lot better than this. All of this stuff is just red lined and people are sticking out heavily. I'd rather us play as loudly as we can with our best sound and use amplifiers than sound super brassy and have tons of people sticking out of the sound without using amps. Just saying....
There's a couple of things to keep in mind. One, by this time, almost all corps were not just red lining. We were taught how to play with a full, powerful, supported sound. Now you're right about people sticking out, but some (not all) of that is the way shows were recorded then. Generally it was 2 or 4 mics, all of them close to the sideline and fairly near the 50. But I can say, though, that it was pretty rare by 1980 to have a corps simply trying to blow as loud as they could.
If they're now using recorded music in DCI shows, can you explain to me the purpose of even having a "live" show? I'm not being facetious; other commenters have said that some corps now blend in recorded music with the rest of the group. If this is what DCI is now about, that's absolutely appalling; it's the same thing as lip-syncing.
It seems as if everyone from the gool ol' days is very confused when it comes to amplification. The only section that is mic'd 100% of the time are the front ensemble. The purpose for that is so they don't have to bang on the keys in hopes of projecting and balancing with a large hornline. No hornlines are mic'd. That's just a thing that corps do not do. Not only is that a logistical nightmare, but there is no need for a 72+ member hornline to be mic'd. Soloists are mic'd for tone purposes.
I know this is a terribly old comment but I regret to inform you that the Bluecoats, the Cavaliers, and the Vanguard are all now essentially micing their entire hornline, and wearing pajamas in place of uniforms.
As a person who just watched DCI finals for the first time in person (and ever watching a DCI Corps live) I can say I definitely preferred no amplification. At least up front it gets muddy in sound quality
The title of this is such a misnomer. Amplification is not required in today's drum corps. When it is used its for sound effects, singing/speaking, soloists and the pit to enhance the program. Horn lines are not amplified. I love the old style drum corps as much as anyone, but the activity has evolved with the times. It would have died out if it had stayed in a petrified state.
Michael, I have to disagree with your last statement. Many art and entertainment forms are doing just fine, and are fundamentally the same as they were 30, 40, 50 years ago. TV, movies, theater, music, dance...I could go on, but while all have certainly evolved, none have gone through the type of changes drum corps has. It's not Bb horns. It's not amplification. Rather it is things like the pit evolving until a corps no longer has two choirs, horns and percussion, but three. It's designing shows that are meant for insiders who follow the corps rather than the casual fan who will only see a corps once. And to me, mostly it's the consequence of those things that has resulted in the devaluing of the horn line and the musical book. The single biggest fundamental change is that shows used to begin with, and were designed to showcase the music. That's no longer true for the most part. Drum corps did not need to evolve away from centering on the music. As an old friend of mine used to say, no one ever walked out of a show whistling the drill.
I must disagree. NFL football has evolved. DCI has transformed into something else entirely. It is now a snooty insiders only club that isn't open to guests. Shows used analog percussive techniques prior to the keyboard breing added. Some corps use the keyboard to enhance weak bass tones. Where 8-9 contra basses was once the norm, 12 or more are necessary just to hope for balance. The Bflat horn lines make a beautiful sound, but if you take me back to my first show in 1987, DCI South, with a BD win and exhibition at the end,...F tuning pouring through my veins,...without that impact, I don't come back because there is no reason, no hook. What you have now is highly refined marching band, without wood winds. It's like going to Vegas to hear a saloon singer because you once heard this guy named Sinatra with extraordinary interpretive abilities, charisma and an imperfect yet magnificent baritone voice. When you get there you find this guy named Buble,...vocally superior in every way, but not what I paid for. That was me at DCI SW about 4 years ago at my first show since 2003. The kids are still phenomenal and DCI is great at what it does,...but I've got to think that if fans were to hear,...to EXPERIENCE G bugles again, and that the kids could feel the raw power and unique beauty they are creating, it would all be worthwhile.
You said it! Singing and speaking are not a part of traditional Drum Corps! Evolving? What you are saying is not what DCI has a adopted. Check your updates.
Have the people complaining about the front ensemble really taken the time to listen to them? What they play is beautiful. And the only reason you'd be able to hear the beauty and intricacy of what they do is largely in part to amplification. Everyone that says they have stopped going to shows because its different has that right...but we're still kids doing drum corps because we love it.
Just went to my first DCI competition since 1988. Wow! A lot has changed, and in my opinion, NOT for the better. Call me an old fart, call me whatever you want, but what I witnessed was: A) what corp can manufacture the best props; B) who can wear the most non-march-like costumes; C) who can present the best 'theater'; D) props used to distract the viewer, possibly even the judges, from flaws in a corps movement and performance. What I heard was: 1) extremely loud amplifiers said to supposedly provide more bass sound; 2) amplifiers so loud they hid flaws in a corps audio performance; 3) booming amplifiers so loud it was akin to attending a movie theater. In short, I went to a DCI competition to see and hear an outside FIELD competition. I ask you, how is this even possible if purposeful actions are taken to mask flaws in the visual & audio performances? Yes, to whomever said in in another comment, I DO absolutely resent being called an old fuddy-duddy because I have the audacity to actually want to listen and see what an actual corp is made of - flaws and all. You can't really do that with all the hiding going on can you? Take away the overuse of props/electronic amplification and I guarantee you'll see who the best corps really are. I mean, gee whiz! Why not just place 2 or 3 jumbo screens in the middle of the field and we can all be outside together watching that? Ridiculous! And just to be clear, I'm not hating on these kids - they've worked their tails off to provide us with a great performance. In fact it's just the opposite. I am hating on a DCI organization and its board members, who seem to have voted on and are completely at ease "lazying up" what was a true Drum, Bugle and Drill Corp competition. They seem content with all these periphery affects, and uninterested in hearing and seeing the work these kids put in. For the person who said it in another comment, complain all you want about how out of tune the past performances you just viewed in the above video were, but this is what differentiated one corp from another...hearing who played stronger. The same goes for seeing; ie seeing if guns or flags were dropped and how a drill line would recover after the error. It's a wonder the judges can even see where mistakes are. So yes, I went to see THAT kind of competition recently. This said, I won't waste my time in the future, as regrettably, I could have just as easily watched it on TV, or in re-runs, as that's what you get now live at the stadium. Nope, not willing to change my view on this, sorry. I'm not sure where the future is with DCI competitions, but see electric guitars, stages, fireworks and motorcycles just around the corner. Its just incredibly sad.
Regardless of how anyone feels about drum corps amplification, the fact is that the activity has progressed a great deal since the time of this video. These old corps are absolutely GREAT for what they presented (the raw power alone is something to be respected). But EVERYTHING progresses unless it dies. Considering the length of time that drum corps has been around, some sort of evolution had to take place. If drum corps didn't evolve and doesn't continue to evolve it will die.
DCI is currently living/dying by its own sword. If they don't have enough money....oh, well. They never realized that that pursuit could kill 'em, too. This makes obvious the difference between them & VFW/Legion drum corps. One was a grass roots organization that coukd be run on a shoestring. DCI? Well, now we know. If it was abt the kids getting to play, they wouldn't be so exclusionary. Instead it became abt making money to spend a lot of money to making money again. At least, that was their excuse when they first tried to sell all if us how those nasty old masters in the VFW & American Legion were making TONS of bucks off off all those poor, EXPLOITED children. Well, I'd sure like to know how much of an increased their corps see in the prizes they won. If it was substantial, then how come they still needed to tap those kids for 3 to 5 grand just to get kn the road for 2 or 3 wks? What did they.do w/all that $? My corps owned its own buses & we held bake sakes & car washes & dinner socials @ local halls. We painted them ourselves. Our dads drove them. Our moms made our uniforms. And we actually traveled on whatever we earned in parades or personal appearances & an add'l fifty cents a wk DUES. In contrast, I recall reading in Drum Corps News long ago abt one corps who raised $ by running a local gas station & whatever profits were made on those days they were on duty they got to keep. Those people were DCI Founders. All the junk they dragged into the activity were no more than them saying "Unless you're gonna spend OUR kind of money, you'll never beat us...". This is the difference in the 2 activities. And the problem is, they didn't prove anything. They just froze out the competition that just a few decades ago could beat them.like they owned 'em. Eliminated the wild talent that might not know how to read music but could wail out on the field. The professionals COULDN'T have THAT! What's the sense of sending little Billy to the conservatory twice a wk when the coarse kid from down the street goes out w/his corps every wknd and creams him? Don't wanna see little Billy disappointed, now do we? So, how do we "fix" it? How do we show America that the little know-nuthins aren't better than us? 😁
As a member of one of the corps featured in this video and watching DC since 76, I can say yes the horn lines were louder than today. And surprisingly many times in tune with great professionalism. I'm a percussionist but I always took the every chance to sit inside the arc of my corps. Amazing results back then with the technology and season as it was. However, horn lines of today are much cleaner often (to me) with fantastic musicianship. Great job to "the kids" of every generation of DCI.
They would never be able to reach that level w/o being only allowed to march heel&toe, their microphones, and ESPECIALLY deciding to junk the competition bugle in favor of - well, let's face it! - making them ALL trumpets, just like they'd been learning on since they were 6.
I cannot count the amt of times I had to.endure the brags of all those high school musicians who touted their own superiority to drum corps kids who didn't take music lessons @ all at the time and how simple it was to be out there playing an old bugle. Then, when they finally succumbed to the urging of their drum corps friends & joined a corps, they finally quit in disgust bcs they were making too many mistakes & it was too hard. Besides, I inevitably woukd hear from them, it could ruin their lip. 🙄
And as a former Soprano, I like listening to the drum line, as an ensemble and in groups. Nothing like a solid bass drum line. I was in corps from 76 to 82, four different corps. I finally made the Show my age out year.
Love the TITLE. I marched in SCV in 79. I remember feeling a wall of sound come from the stands as the colorguard got ready for the Bottle Dance. After that you couldn't hear anying but white noise. I couldn't even hear my own horn.
Unless you were there, no one knows how F**ing load Spirit was during the "soft" section of Let it Be Me as they faced backfield. We were usually on the back sidelines getting our ears punctured
I was there. Totes legit.
Im 12 yrs late to your comment, but after seeing SCV at competition in Birmingham, Al in 1977 - 78(?), our high school band became corp- like, our colorguard together with drum major and majotettes did the bottle dance, then at the end of the song, we ALL fell on the ground like we were dead! People would come to the ballgames, just to watch us at halftime, and a standing ovation every Friday night. What was bad though, is that the other teachers at the school became so insanely jealous of our director, that they started viscious rumors about her. She eventually resigned. Members dropped from 105 to around 40. It was never the same again.
What I can't understand is why young folks think a 40 year old, obviously poor, analog recording is at all an accurate representation of the power,glory and beautifully stacked sound of a G horn line! Most of the "intonation problems" in these clips are a recording issue, not a performance issue...I'm no recording engineer, but it seems pretty obvious that whatever mikes were used were just "overwhelmed" by the sound.
You can still play G on a Bb bugle, Lmao just press the first 2 valves 😂
@Nathan Graff You do know there's more to it than that...right?
Amen brother - and it's more than that, it's heritage. D&B Corps grew out of a military background when the bugle called for a troop movement, and the drums kept the cadence of that movement. Technically, they aren't even D&B Corps now, they're Drum and Brass (and keyboard, and singing, and backgound audio, etc.) Corps.
Bullseye! How does a person capture the energy of a freight train with some little cassette recorder from the 70s?
@@johns3106 He does not understand that a B flat trumpet is a bic lighter compared to a G blow torch.
Would've been nice to have the recording quality of today back then to compare loudness..
love it!! I was in SCV's horn line in 79. When we started the Bottle Dance, the crowd was SOO Loud I couldn't even hear the notes that were coming out of my horn. There was just a wall of sound that came from the stands. Gives me goosebumps thinking about even today.
My first introduction to drum corp, my husband told me about SVCs bottle dance. I didn't believe they could do it, until I saw it in person.
I have been following Drum and Bugle corps since 1974, and I still have not seen anything as amazing as the glory days from 1979 to 1984-85. Those years had people who weren't afraid to let the horn lines loose, and let everyone play. I also agree with the previous poster who stated that in most drum corps before 1990, if a Kid could play a note, but was broke, he or she could find a place to march. It kept a lot of kids off the streets, and showed them the USA. It opened a lot of eyes.
This popped up today and WOW! I remember class A and Class B Championships back then, even earlier in the late 1950s. Those judges were practically under our feet! Those were the best times - very professional music with excellent horns and drums - and the marching, with the synchronized maneuvers with flags and rifles.. Didn't need some of what I see now. It seems somehow pure in retrospect. So glad this came up today, makes me want to search for some old friends!
1973.on
Being a younger guy, I always wondered why everyone is complaining that they don't like how DCI is today. I personally think it's amazing in this era, but after seeing this video, I can see how people like the old times better. I still love both, there's just different forms of intensity between now and then, but I love them both! Thanks for posting this!
Funny, reading your post ten years later, "in this era." Some things don't age well.
Three words: Wall. Of. Sound. No audio recording does justice to those hornlines. You actually had to be in front of them and literally "feel" the sound with your entire body. We were on a couple tours with Spirit and even their warm up would blow you away.
J.Delius - Mello - Pride of Cincinnati '82
Yep. These people commenting on the sound and intonation weren't there.
Been there, felt that! :-D
I marched in 1979 and 1983 DCI Finals. I remember each of these and all I can say is OH YEAH!! I design sound reinforcement and studio recording systems and sell their gear for a living. While the ability to mic some pit instruments for tonal variety is nice, there is nothing LESS exciting than seeing or hearing a synth of any kind. One of my favorite rules as a musician and in life is "The more limited you are, the more creative you can be." That is why old corps was so great. With Drums, Brass, and visual expression, amazing emotions were communicated! Now, there is no limit, therefore overall, there seems to be less creativity. Plus, horns back then were designed to play loudly and were in the key of G. Maybe DCI is more refined now, but Roy is correct in posting the raw energy that was produced back then. I think I will go do some Goldman exercises at ALL dynamic levels LOL - Patrick Dennis
Don't you realize that it's DCBD that has done this?
I marched from 76 - 82. I was in four different corps, finally made finals the last year I was eligiable. I quite drum corps all together in 2004. I cannot watch it anymore. It has changed so much and not for the better. I guess that is what they call progress. Thank you for the compilation. And to all of you who think Amplification is the way to go, I present my B valve finger to you!
Agree !
DCI is just different today.
Too much focus on the "down front" action and the smaller emphasis on a marching show !
They used to blow you back into your seat with that explosion of low brass power !!!!!!
Thanks for putting this on! We marched bugles in the 70s and loved it. Band was a blast...but we lived for Drum and Bugle Corps!!! We loved the difference. Now, thanks to George Hopkins and the Cadets, there is no difference! What a shame!!!!!
I think what's striking about these short clips is the sheer size of the crowd and the intensity of the crowd response....thanks for posting! Signed, an 80's "Red Team" alum
no goosebumps in the music. That is EXACTLY right.
I saw DCI finals a few years ago (at the Rose Bowl).
Perfectly executed shows.. well played... the best corps in the world. but no goosebumps... no "oh my God" moments. There was that one corp that had microphones on people with (sorry) inane comments being made throughout their show. "The rules" gave them a good score... but man... the rules have to be changed or something.
Thank you for the reminder of what it was all about. It has been 3 decades since I spent so many hours sweating on the field and on the bus, but still, nothing vibrates my soul like the sound of drums and BUGLES.
Thumbs Up HE360!!!!!! I never missed a show during the glory days; now I never go see one. This is EXACTLY when DCI was great. 70's and 80's rule! 27th doing Folk Song Suite, great stuff !
Jeremy got it right. Drum & BUGLE Corps mutated, INTO GOOD MARCHING BANDS! I loved marching band and loved Drum Corps! BUT I WAS THRILLED WITH THE DIFFERENCE!!! There was no need for the loss of bugles. It's like...Drum Corps was white paint and bands black paint. You kept pouring the black paint in until the white was completely gone. Now it's ALL BAND!
It's not hating on the present just fondly remembering the past. I was one of those high school marching band geeks some of the posters are talking about. Back in 1977 I would have given my (name the body part) to have been able to join any one of the Drum and Bugle Corps of the day. I am glad to know that DCI is helping to keep the tradition, with evolution, going. March on!
No evolution is happening. Their visual people are all frauds. They are judging visual design not the corps members. Their visual people have no art degrees or training. They are incompetent. Its all about raiding high school boosters of their money with show design. The corps shows are ugly. Bad art is always over-complex and that describes what they have become perfectly. Instead of selling the performers talents and competition, they are selling the designs of amateurs. Hence 30 corps remain and half cant draw a crowd. Too bad. I marched 13 years Jr corps. At that time the score sheets were about US. We had control of our destiny. No so today.
@superdupercrazy232 'You can't accept change'...oh boy, a deep thinker. Change can be good or bad as it is just the delta between two defined states. Your comments are naive and insulting to what came before you. If you truly understood the foundation of Drum & Bugle Corps and had experienced what it was like before it was intentionally transformed and neutered, you would easily recognize the modern DCI experience as nothing more than Marching Band pretending to be Drum & Bugle Corps. If the low-life George Hopkins and company had started a new 'YEA' enterprise apart from Drum & Bugle Corps as it was around 1983 they would have eventually lost that competition. They knew that. And another related point, the snare drums designed for Indoor activities should remain there - they can't produce a real rim-shot to save their life! They do not sound like snare drums and I know a lot about what real snare drums sound like. Give me the Bridgemen, Blue Devils, Santa Clara, Madison, etc of the early to mid 80's - the drill designs were organically evolving to a point that added a visually artistic layer to the Drum & Bugle Corps foundation. Drum & Bugle Corps energized the audience. Running around at fulll speed without the drum line anchoring the precision and feel necessary for a Drum & Bugle Corps experience does NOT energize the audience. I am 100% right. Sorry.
hey folks, part of the beauty of music is that there is more than enough to go around for ALL of us! It doesn't matter who was better, who was bigger, who was faster, etc.. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT WE WERE THERE, WE ENJOYED IT, AND THANKS TO YOU TUBE AND GUYS LIKE THIS WE STILL DO !!!!!
It's the raw energy that gets me pumped! I think Americans were less angry back then and full of vigor. Watch old football games from that time period, people are much more joyous
Gosh! What a year '79 was for DCI!
When intonation wasn't required in drum corps, but seriously why can't we just love drum corps both for what it was and what it is now? If modern corps didn't have earlier corps it wouldn't be what it is today. If early corps is all there was a lot of young people would miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime to do something bigger than themselves and perform some awesome shows while they're at it. Let's just love drum corps as a whole.
I love how this comment has no attention, its just fundamentalist people bitching about the 'good ol days' and people (like me) who are bitching at the people who are bitching about what we love.. andhere we have someone trying to quel the argument between two different groups and is getting no recognition. Thank you, sir
Sorry-have to disagree. I came from a region of the country where there was no drum corp. I was in band all through college. I know amphlifacation was discussed, but if it had been adopted, I would have been gone!!
I have the pleasure and honor of knowing Mr Martin. Not only is he a music educator of the first order his DCI pedigree is without question. That being said I am somewhat old school marching and he, of course, is the new. The use of amplification I have witnessed seems to bury the natural sound of the contras. I marched Contra and know full well how much power sound those produce. I would give all to totally ban the use of electronics. However it is neigh near impossible to recruit true low brass these days so the corps have to do What they can to produce a balanced sound. I dislike it passionately but I would take a bullet for ANYONE in ANY DCI/DCA corps. Keyboardists included.
Intonation
@pearlsnaredrummer77 Wtf I was making a joke? We all got an opinion btw all I'm gonna say
The title speaks the truth. This stiff is so much better than today and I'm fifteen.
Comparing today's Corps with yesteryear's is like comparing apples and oranges.
Please don't.
Standards were different back then, and trying to compare them is unfair to both groups. I marched in the 1970's for a DCI corp, and appreciate how DCI has evolved over the years. If I had any comment on the subject, I would say that sometimes, the old days of choreography were much better than today, but that is a personal opinion.
I look forward to opening night of the 2014 season, and helping to support DCI's newest Open Class corp in the Pacific Northwest.........Eruption Drum & Bugle Corp!
D Akers Kudos to Eruption. But I'm sure they don't play bugles.
And neither do the other 60+ Drum & Bugle Corps around the country...yet most have "Bugle" in their titles which date back to the 1890's.
Yeah, I agree. Perfect illustration of what we always knew:
One side is drum corps.
The other is "band", which went ahead & proved it was a whole other thing.
Hence the amplification.
I marched in the 1978 & 79 Blue Devils A (Drum Line). What an honor to play and compete with so many AMAZING Corps from all over!
I wasn't going to comment, but some of the comments are just silly. Bb three valve horns are purchased and played today because they can be resold to public school marching bands, where a G bugle is impossible sell. DCI created the activity we know today. Everybody may not agree on what it has become, but we should all support the members of the past, present, and future. Like most things in life, is not about the destination, but the journey. The shows of today, do not diminish the shows of yesterday and vise versa. Everyone puts in the hard work all summer to put on the best show of their life. It doesn't matter if you're World or Open (Open or A Class), Drum Corps and DCI provides the best leadership and personal responsibility education available anywhere. Lets all support and celebrate that and not criticize the past or present, but prepare for the future. Thanks for posting and support Drum Corps!
Finally, some sanity
Well said .
If it's not entertaining, why should people go to the shows?
Thank you for putting Float’s drum parts back into these performances of Georgia.
One I think deserving of mention is how powerful and crisp Suncoast Sound was in the mid-late 80s, they were kinda rare in the transition from old school to 3 valve bugles. How those kids got that much sound from bugles is amazing. These kids today don't realize how good they have it with their fully sponsored b flat gear. Blast from the past, thanks for posting!
I played with SoA '83, and am still amazed to this day the volume Suncoast was able to attain.
Aside from the well-made horn, mouthpiece, mouthpiece, mouthpiece.
When they finally gave my section our new Olds horns, I was given a new mouthpiece that kind of resembled a golf tee. The very first night @ practice, we nearly blew the watching fans across the parking lot!
😆
Can't argue with you on that, gotta love the old school!
Personally, I think today's Drum Corps sound better than ever. Especially with how difficult the drill is that they perform. Jazz running at a BPM higher than 180 and still playing with a great sound is an amazing feat.
I first got introduced to DCI in 1979 and attended shows until 2005. I truly appreciate you posting these videos. They really are a huge blessing to me to see these corps again during DCI’s Golden Era. God bless.
God damn that intonation is hurting my head
The recording's audio quality is pathetic because it's a recording of a recording. (And might have been spliced a third time.) But numerous other videos of 70's and 80's corps have much better audio quality.
You probably can't even play in tune yourself without autotune, son.
I was there!!! Just a spectator, wishing I'd had an opportunity to be in drum corps when I was younger. What performances! Thanks!
Spirit of Atlanta 1980, Birmingham, I was in the tenor line that year.
Holy crap! I was at that show!
I was also at that show too. Knew some folks in the '80 Spirit of Atlanta too.
THIS IS FREAKING AWESOME!!!! Thanks for sharing. I marched 1992-94, but I got to "enjoy" a valve/rotor Contra so technically I'm still part of "old school" drum corps.
Preach it brother!!! Electronics have no place in Drum Corp. I rips at the integrity of Drum Corp and marching music in general. And I also agree 100% with the fact that the power of the brass has been missing for years. Drum Corp has become "artsy" and has lost the different identities that several have spoke of. Very sad. I miss the old days of back-field warmups and 100+ decibels pushed to the press box - back when drum corp was awe inspiring.
fing CHILLS from this first minute on. bring it back! Do it like THIS!!!!
I like the old times, simple but great, but i also like the new times, complex and amazing. I think what we need to understand is the time and generation differences we have here. Stuff they had back then is Totally different form what we have today, and both times are fantastic. However you do need to understand that times Do change. You can look at that in a good way or bad way, but change is inevitable. This year in 2017 dci looks like wgi but on a field. One of my favorite shows is Madison Scouts 1988. that's almost 30 years ago. Another show i think is great is Bluecoats 2016. Both Amazing shows in my opinion. But there is a big time difference there and you need to understand that. Now you can have you can have your opinions and i can have mine, but you at least need to understand what's going on there. And despite what other people may say, i'll still love dci.
",,,dci looks like wgi but on a field" EXACTLY. It is not drum & bugle corps. Period. End of story.
I love this video. When I look at this video, I'm sorry to say, but I personally think drum corps back then had more excitement. I'm glad this video was posted. It shows the true essence of drum corps and what drum corps should be all about and it's the kind of video I'd like to show to people.
The comments on old drum corps videos make me so mad that I hardly want to watch them. No matter what type of show you like, or how you feel about Bb bugles you have no right to put down the people who devote their summers to this activity. DCI needs all the support it can get, and it really hurts me to see the alumni who should be excited about this activity and trying to encourage people to join tearing it down instead. The style of the shows and the music and the colorguard work especially is so different. You really can't even compare them, and I wish we could all just take a second to realize that it's not about the scores or the precision or the kind of bugles, it's about the experience.I personally do not at all like the way colorguard work was designed pre-late 90s, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the incredible precision of the old guards, and it definitely does not mean I need to put them down. Please just stop debating about which was better because all it does is tear apart the community and hurt the activity.
If audiences are shrinking, and people who participated for years can't be bothered to attend, doesn't that maybe suggest that the activity has taken a wrong turn?
@@PrairieBoy99 It seems to be less about the musician and more about the entertainment value -- as in broadway productions. Get back to putting the emphasis on drums and horns and less on flags, rifle lines and stage production!!!
PrairieBoy99 As a performer in DCI, I can tell you without a doubt attendance is not shrinking. There are big, loud, cheering crowds everywhere(except New York because New York sucks 😂). The world championships has more and more people every year. If people didn’t come to watch me I wouldn’t participate in the activity. I guess the old people who aren’t interested anymore wouldn’t know that because they don’t go to shows. It’s ok, the people that care and support the activity replace you, and more and more people are coming every year.
@@noahharber9936 If you're a current DCI performer, then your perspective about crowd size is limited to the last few years, whereas I'm talking about the last several decades. I'm just under 50, and when I was 12 my Canadian city had a DCI corp along with two drum & brass marching bands for 12-18 year-olds. It now has no marching ensembles for mid-teens and higher. This occurred although the city population is now twice as large as when I was a kid. Marching ensembles just aren't on peoples' radar anymore.
The repertoire list at the DCX website shows 67 junior corps (excluding feeder-corps) in 1982 but only 43 in 2019. That's a third fewer corps, though the US population is 100 million larger now than in 1982. Something has gone wrong.
I can say unequivocally that if I turn off the visual & listen only to the music, I find very little appealing about today's DCI shows. The music certainly isn't memorable, which is a shame because today's performers (including you!) are absolutely incredibly talented - my hat is off to you! But I think that the talent is misdirected towards creating "art" instead of creating "entertainment."
I know whereof I speak: I love jazz, and after starting out in marching band, played a mean bebop/hard bop trumpet through my school years and into my undergrad years. But I also readily acknowledge that once jazz veered into becoming "art" instead of "entertainment", it lost the vast majority of the music-listening public. This seems to be happening to DCI, and I hope they change course before they discover they've rendered themselves invisible and irrelevant to the broader public.
PrairieBoy99 Although there are less corps now than in the past attendance to shows is no less. It is very expensive to run a drum corps now, and a lot of corps folded because of money. Including mine 2 times. There may be less corps, but In my experience the stands have always been full. My only complaint is when I was in open class our venues kinda sucked. The crowds were still there but the fields sucked. I as a performer know that this is an art. It’s talked about all the time. Art is entertainment though. Why would we read books, watch movies, or listen to music if it wasn’t for our entertainment. All of those are various art forms, and drum corps is no different. I find any drum corps show I watch entertaining no matter what year. The thing that kills us is when we want to connect to the members of our corps who marched before us but they hate the activity now.
My older brother marched with the Kilts in 1979. That's was a good summer!
It just seems like drum corps doesn't have the heart and spirit anymore like it did back then. I marched 76 - 80 and I know we were no where good as the kids marching these days but even though I've tried, I just can not get into the new things they are doing. It saddens me to see most of the drum line piled up in heap on the sidelines also.
Funny you should mention that because I carried the 23" tymp my second season and the 26" tymp for the next 2 seasons. We had to carry them in a few parades as well which was much worse than carrying them in a show. We also grounded them during our concert number. So I guess my answer would be; "Yes, I did prefer to carry the tymps because I gladly did for 3 seasons." I also recall Santa Clara never grounding their tymps at all. The actually took the legs off them. They used the Slingerland tymps. We marked the Ludwig which I always thought was a heavier model. We never saw tymps get grounded for an entire show until the Kilts did it in 78 or 79, I don't recall.
Alas, therein lays problem with today's modern drum corps and the reason why so many of the old people like have tuned out of it.
That Blue Devils lick is everything!!
I love both, and have minimal gripes about both styles. As a whole, people were easier to impress with everything bitd not just drum corps. You will never see this type again except DCA. I would be interested in hearing a G line with Crown '12-'13, arguably the best hornlines ever.
I honestly think one reason why amplification is needed today is because many shows require more physical stamina. So when the big moment comes, the horns are too tired to play as loud as they truly could. But that's just my opinion.
Was waiting for someone else to notice. If you notice, today much if the most complicated drill parts are done when the horn line isn't playing. You very rarely hear them play all together for a full number either. And when they're not, it's the percussion "bells" that are - & let's face it: They just stand there. That vaunted difficulty I see the music majors & part time instructors swooning abt would not be possible if the horns weren't spending so much time laying out, waiting for it.
all I see is a bunch of older people complaining about "back in my day". DCI is still fantastic, just different.
Old School Fair enough, but everything changes, even DCI. To be honest, I'm young (15) and even I don't like the introduction of French Horns, Trombones, etc. that much. It made for some cool solos/features, but I hope all the corps don't use it as a trope every single year. Let's just hope for the best and keep praising those performers for their undeniable hard work and killer performances.
dci is still my favorite activity and still makes me cry
pretty much
Nythlen DCI has changed Drum Corps into some kind of theatrical nonsense I like the old military style drum and bugle Corps precision discipline and quite frankly the music was very good drum and bugle Corps today is very different from what I did as a kid and I think that is very sad that drum and bugle Corps are so rare today
Nythlen you don't get it. Listen to the sound. Back then they played with their hearts now these corps play with a plug and a outlet
Changing with the times has been crazy! Thanks, Roy! 🤩
To expand on sub's comment, absolutely. The kids do a great job today. They're just missing out. In my day we got the crowds up and screaming with cool drill, power chords and loudness. We listened for the pretty melodies on cd later. While they do what's asked of them, work hard, and perform well, they don't get the payoff of having crowds erupt throughout the whole show, which always hyped me up huge. Watch BD this yr, then BD in '84 and hear the crowd. Bring back G bugles, and lose the mics..
Thank you a million times for posting this video! What great sound, and performance!
in the 70's and 80's, each top 12 corps had soprano soloists that could be heard anywhere, in any stadium, without amplification. The G soprano could project like crazy, and a decent player could put any note anywhere they wanted. I was in Birmingham, Alabama in 1979, and I heard Madison Scouts practicing. I thought they were about a mile away, and tried to find where they were practicing. After following the sound until I found them, I realized they were 5 MILES away!!!!!
YES, all this
1979... I was 9 years old and my dad was one of the organizers of "Invitation Quebec", the biggest DCI competition to be held outside the US. Drum Corps got so big in Quebec that DCI held the 1981 and 1982 championships at Montreal's Olympic Stadium... man, those were the days !!!!!
I was in drum corp back in the late 60's; best time of my growing up. I've read some of these comments and I'm disgusted. If you want people to spend their hard earned money on your shows then I would be careful not to bite the hand that feeds you. Many of us crazy old people posting are actually the ones paying for the tickets to watch your shows. Obviously, some of you can't share your opinion without sounding trashy and demeaning. I'm going to believe that the majority of drum corp today appreciate their beginnings ...otherwise I can spend my money elsewhere.
No complaints here! I most definitely enjoy some of the older shows, as their style is so great and unique compared to what you hear today.
The Blue Devils brought it that year! What a finale! A literal wall of SOUND!
no wonder we all used to pass out.....
Ohhh that made me laugh....I'd forgotten how many times even colorguard members would pass out. Thanks for the giggle.
Thank you!!!! Went the Georgia Dome and saw a live show for the first time in 20 years. I am so done with DCI!!!!!
Miss the glory days of Real! Drum & Bugle Corps! 1960S ! Marched with the Mariners and Kenosha Kingsmen.
GO ARMY (RET) NRA USA
Simply powerful ,yet, powerfully simply.
First, I’ll admit this. When I was marching in the late 70’s and early 80’s there is no way I could have performed some of these compositions nor could I have performed some of these choreography moves corps do today. Today’s corps look and sound good However, they should. They operate under a different set of rules and use different instruments. They also have better tools at their disposal. I’m sure the choreography for these shows wasn’t designed with a pencil and graph paper. I’m also fairly certain the compositions today’s corps play weren’t arranged on manuscript paper.
The issue is not whether old drum corps is better than new drum corps but rather is the new brand of drum corps is entertaining. Sadly, I have to say no. Watched the 2017 DCI prelims at one of the local theaters. Felt like I was watching a series of Off Broadway plays with excerpts from the Berlin Atonal Festival. Out of 15 corps not one really excited me. There were no memorable moments. Was the music complex? Yes. Were the show designs intricate? Yes. But the shows weren’t exciting. They seemed to be devoid of any emotion or excitement. The props and electronics seemed to detract from the show rather than enhance it. I thought it might be the speaker system but when they played some excerpts of past performances (70's, 80's, and 90's,) I actually felt something.
No, drum corps should not return to piston rotor horns and drummers carrying field tymps and xylophones. I’ll even accept the use of other brass instruments. However, when a drum corps has 8 singers with microphones (Cadets), and scaffolding on the field (Bluecoats and Blue Devils), in my opinion it’s not drums corps…it’s some kind of outdoor stage production. Old style drum corps may have been simplistic and imperfect, but at least it had feeling. I’ll accept the scaffolding and electronics when program designers put some excitement back into their shows.
Dave -- I'll go one step further ... how many of today's units move and play simultaneously?!?
Today's "drum corps" is more like concert band on a domed football field, because THAT is the final venue they must consider when they design a show (Lucas Oil Field with the roof closed -- have they EVER done Championships there and opened the roof?) -- Phantom and their 4-to-5 while playing being one of the FEW exceptions ...
What broke it for me was two-fold -- the Bluecoats electronic (pre-recorded?) "bend" and the way that DCI kept pounding on Madison as the Scouts tried to stay true to their "Please the crowd" ethos ... DCI will NEVER get another penny from me.
thank you....i needed a shot of the good ole days !!!!! man,,,,,thats dome good shit
Holst's first suite!
That's what it was! Ah thanks!
But don't forget the fact that these are G Bugles, not trumpets, etc. The Corps you see in this video are the guys who laid the framework for today's "Generation". They are your instructors, Corps Directors, Band Directors, Drill instructors, show designers of today. I can't say today's Corps are musically advanced than earlier Corps, different instruments, different arrangements. The Blue Devils you see today didn't just start winning Championships in 2000. True Drum Corps fans love it all.
But they don't come out to the shows.
They lost "the sound".
They lost the crowds.
And now they're losing the kids.
When Variation In Drill Was Not Required In Drum Corps
Look at today's drills. There's more stop-time now than there was then, if you add it all up. Drills got a lot harder than these, yes, but they've become a lot easier over the last ten years or so.
Mystral Dragonfly im sorry have you seen Crown's drill in their 2015 program?
Mystral Dragonfly You contradicted yourself so much there: yes its harder but its easier
TheNapkinOfTruth - back when sound was not scarified for high speed M&M. Its a pity that you can't move like today and still project the power of yesteryear.
Try not to notice that the crowds keep getting smaller although the country's population keeps getting larger.
Thank you! Beautiful. So real. Many of us were self taught.
Sleeping on a hard gym floor, smokin' a little weed in a Kansas corn field when the bus broke down!
Those were the days!
Loved the Spirit clip at the end!
While these corps sound loud and everything, they aren't doing anything nearly as complex musically or visually. It's not hard to be loud playing unisons--its a lot harder to be loud while playing complex, fluid chord progressions, which corps are accomplishing VERY well today. Not to mention they are basically jogging while they do it now. The corps today have superior intonation as well, which really brings out the overtone series in the big moments. There's a place for all of these traditions, but to say that modern drum corps requires amplification is a bit ridiculous, considering the musicians participating today are performing on quite a superior level in comparison.
Jim Frenowsky on top of that a lot of these were out of tune as well.
Jonesy Especially Vanguard.
You owe everything to these people. They are the pioneers and you are the ungrateful spoiled child.
@@Fos3tex And you're just the asshole old man stuck in his ways and unaccepting of change. Cause while these are good, they're just not as good to watch as shows now. And the fact that you're going to go around hating on someone because of their opinion is a little assholish of you.
If they "don't require amplification", then why do they use amplification?
Simply amazing
I'm old school. 46. I loved bending back and blasting away.
You can't march today's shows with yesterday's sound. I would definitely prefer dumbing down the visual presentation to improve the audio!
If it's as "old school" as I say u are, then I guess u don't remember ur instructor telling u that "bend'g back" & leading w/ur crotch has nothing to do w/the volume u put out. And in fact u can hurt urself.
@@g.hon.4645 Hmm. I never hurt myself. That, hon, is a fact. Whether it be bending back or not, my band blew the others off the field. We didn't before we started bending back. We did after. That, hon is a fact. Do not state opinion as fact. Bottom line, we managed to play solos without amplification and every person in the stands heard me. I had friend on the visitor's side that had no difficulty hearing me. That, hon, is a fact.
I have always loved your posts Roy.
Don't take the poor sound recording as "proof" of intonation problems. If you think the corps sounded as "tinny" in person as they do on this poor recording you are sadly, sadly mistaken. The power (not just volume, but an indescribable POWER!) of the g bugle is not given it's fair due in this clip!
John, in this particular example the drill formation killed the music. They brought the low voices & harmony rt down to the sidelines & walled off the sopranos. I heard The same presentation before that yr & after that yr. They never made that mistake again.
@G. Hon. Are you referring to one specific corps? Surely, not all the corps in this clip had the same drill problem!?
In fact, I am. Santa Clara Bottle Dance. It was so obvious I took it for granted it's what you were talk'g abt
@G. Hon. To be honest, this recording makes all the corps sound a bit "blatty" and unbalanced (not that I think they were...it is just a poor quality recording!) and I couldn't be sure which group you were referring to...to my ear Santa Clara doesn't sound any more unbalanced than 27th Lancers or Bridgemen...but maybe the difference was more apparent in person.
@@johns3106 sounds like a very narrow-minded individual, cannot accuse all drum corpse because one corpse did something incorrectly
I was at DCI west in Boise Idaho 1979, and saw Vanguard doing the bottle dance! Goose bump moment ! I was in the Percussion Naut Patriots and a hopeless drum corps fan! Especially after that night in Boise! I almost...marched with the Madison Scouts in 1981, they were waiting for me but I flaked out...Still to this day regret not getting in that bus!
Didn't cost you 10,000.00 dollars to march in the 60's to 70's. That's why it was better and louder. G horns are a different animal than Bflat. Built to be loud.
Correct in order to play those horns you had to be really good with your ear and lip or the mistakes would show. But then you had 42 horns harder to cover up the mistakes now 110 horns ......really.
You do realize that the "corners" embouchure is that used by many professional orchestral musicians, not least of which are the Martin family, right?
Veryle Rupp dude it costs literally at most 3 grand
I was a Bluecoat in 75. I had a one vavle and one rotary G soprano bugle. I loved corp and still like to see the Bluecoats when I can. (Im still a local Ohio guy) We were a JR corp when I was in and nothing will ever match the 27th lancers in 1980 for me. They set the bar that has been unmatched in my opinion. After saying that. I am proud to have been a Bluecoat. I am proud of what they have accomplished. Go Blooooooo.
Exactly, those WERE the days and as you said everyone freaked when mallet percussion was introduced. People will always have issues with change but things must change with time.
"...everybody freaked..." not bcs of mallet-playing. This was a move by the DCI honchos to widen the scope of the drum section. They wanted Glockenspeils. They wanted "bells". They had made an outright grab for introducing keyboards in 1971 when at a big spring standstill event @ the Holmdell Center in NJ GARFIELD ( later: " The Cadets") came marching out on stage dragging their keyboards & guitars & amps w/them.
Those who "freaked" knew where it was gonna lead.
And here we are.
Ahh yes the G bugle, a piston and a rotor. I played Contra, and it was hard for 15 min. you blow your brains out and march. Today they blow their brains out, dance and make what ever they are playing sound good...that is very hard and they are a lot better than we were back in the 70's, however the style is no longer just brass and drums with some flags and rifles, its dance and a symphonic orchestra.
Corps today use amplification for soloists and timpani. Where are The soloists in this video?
The bias here is like comparing apples to oranges. . .
They also use the keyboard to overcome weakness in the bass tones, but it isn't the fault of the players. It is the horns. Back in '93, when PR marched 14 contra basses, it was considered an intriguing novelty. Now 12-14 is the requirement.
I don't think you've ever sat on the 35 yard line, 5 rows up at a show in 2016. I can promise you that the amplification is on more than just timpani and soloists.
Sam Shelley - I am well aware of how the system works, thank you. Excuse my lack of use of the word "typically" or "usually". But don't assume my experience or where I've been at or in a drum corps show. . .
Typically and usually the keyboard(s) as well as the marimbas are mics. Actually, most of any top 12 pit is miced, with the exceptions being a loud acoustic instrument (crash cymbal).
For example, BD often has the synth play the horn book (during impact moments) with the generated sound derived from an audio recording of the hornline itself.
Carolina Crown will often have the hornline play perfect fifths during impact moments and the synth will fill in the third.
You do realize you are diminishing the capabilities of (probably) the most talented hornline in DCI? The caliber of player in modern DCI is just so much better than "the old days".
It would be nice if the crowd would shut up a little though. Maybe that's why we use amplification now. Hearing the subtleties in a show is more important than just blasting the whole time so you can play over the crowd.
Change is inevitable not optional! Please some one tell me that having marching tympani's was a good idea! Nothing is every perfect but look at the advances in the modern drum cops!
Thank god I did not march tymps there have been many back issues from those and bass #5! Modern groups are light years ahead in every area of performance! Get out of the way for the future-OLD SCHOOL
I did and it sucked! I love all era's of drum corps and think that modern stuff is great. I have been around itsince 1970 and am a proud parent of a current pit member. Don't be close minded.
actually drum corps use drums
Ah yes, if you wanted to play it, you had to march it! And if you wanted to use props, you had to find a clever way to "sneak" them onto the field without the audience being distracted by them.
If they use recorded music in today's shows, then they're no better than Milli Vanilli.
Lol, we agree to disagree. I just took out my g bugle and my Bb trumpet myself. Went out to the backyard, belted out a couple of F's. The neighbor was CLEARLY more annoyed at the brighter and louder timbre of the G bugle and let me know it. Not scientific, but my argument stands, G bugles are easier to play louder, thus are inherently louder.
To me the late 90s were the best years in DCI. The new 3 valve horns, while still G-bugles, the new drill concepts, new guard choices for equipment, it all produced some of the best shows. Like Star 93, Madison's mid 90s, 97 BD, 98 Cadets etc. Less was more! With the Coats throwing down Tilt and making amplification likeable it will be interesting to see how this evolves. The Cadets perform the crap out of their shows but music does not require voice to create emotion. All the directors have lost sight of that to further the "art". If that's what it takes to keep kids interested and keep DCI in existence I'll take it.
brown55061 Sorry to have to disagree with you but Drum Corps in the 70's and early 80's were the best time and the most corps of all times.
Dianne Long, yep, but not it wasn't because the 2 valve bugles were superior. Its because the trend towards concert music had begun by the late 90's.
can't ever get enough of those bridgemen banana suits.
These corps were not necessarily out of tune recording devices back in the 70s and 80s were terrible, trust me the ladies and gentlemen would have known if they were In tune or not my band director was drum major of that last group, spirit, and trust me they placed 4th they weren't out of tune.... You want argue with me on this message me on google....
+Ken Scarlett Funny, seeing as that was the primary reason they were totally outstripped by the B flat horns. Nobody's required to march G bugles, yet LITERALLY no drum corps besides alumni groups (I wonder why?) march them. Simply, in comparison to a B flat hornline literally the only thing they have is volume, and if it sounds like shit, who cares how loud they play? B flat gives performers a much better opportunity to shine.
The reason why no one marches G horns anymore is purely economics. A corps get Bb horns cheaper from manufacturers because they are not special instruments. They are literally the same instrument that the HS marching band down the street uses. THEN they can unload the whole lot of them onto a HS or college music department when they want new ones. So instead of marching the same beat up G horn season after season because it's too expensive to replace, you can get a brand spanking new Bb horn.
+Ouity yeah just look at what the guy posted below G bugles are too expensive to replace now a days and the reason all age corps sound meh is because let's face it they are as good as you ouity... Douche... Bb trumpets are a dime a dozen now a days and trust me if you had Been there in the 70s and 80s I can guarandamntee you wouldn't be saying ooooo it's out of tune...
I've listened to recordings of big hits that make me want to put my keyboard through my left ear.
But I digress, even if the tuning was flawless, there are a myriad of other reasons for the change to be a positive one. For starters, no youths know how to play a bugle. Allowing folks to play on the instruments they use in the sit-down band word makes the learning curve nonexistent, and the quality of performance higher.
For me, G Bugles represent an era of boring shows and crummy design. Just look at the first four or so clips in this video, that's all I got through. A big, standstill company front style set where everybody gets on their knees and plays real loud. There's no movement, no effect, nothing that makes me admire their skill. Time goes on, and I'd rather watch a 2000's show than a 60's show any day of the week.
"No youths know how to play a bugle"...???? For starters, fingerings for all piston 2v and 3v G horns are pretty much the same as Bb horns. The only difference was the relative pitch of the notes (bugle being slightly lower).....The only kids who have learning curve issues are kids who played either trombone or French horn or switched over from woodwind to brass.....which is the same challenge as Bb horns.
My god, this brings back memories...Corps used to go "Balls to the Wall" and Spirit was the loudest, they could literally knock the stands back a foot, all the corps, knew how to play not only loudly, but with control, and in tune, which was not easy with the old style bugles. Sitting in the stands, you were blown away with the musicianship, and today, with yelling on the field, mics, and any other kind of amplification, ruins it. Bring back the old days. when a corps did it on their own!
Totally agree with this. A good soprano, mello or bari soloist could definitley be easily heard above the horn line and battery. While in "band" I played a Mount Vernon Bach 43 star that I thought could wail. WHen I picked up my first G Soprano and learned to fill it up, I was amazed at the volume of sound it could produce. It's almost like there was a little guy inside cranking an air raid siren and the full soprano sound coming out.
That's it EXACTLY.
Awesome. Thanks Roy!
What I don't understand is why people think "louder" is always better. Yeah, these corps were loud. But were they in tune? Kinda. Today's corps are not as loud, but are they in tune? Yes they are. I've never heard better playing outside of modern drum corps. I respect everybody that has marched and is currently marching, but you have to give credit where it's due. Modern drum corps are superior is virtually every category.
Loopy Bass probably cause there was nothing else to do back in the day.
Nicholas Brister Horns in G are much harder to play in tune than today's horns in Bb. The G horns also projected better so they where louder.
Nicholas Brister I'm sure everyone doesn't think this. Love it for what it is. It's all good; the early corps and the corps today. Amplification or not it was people doing what they loved to do and others appreciating it.
+Nicholas Brister Well said, but to add to that, you have to consider that now drum corps has just as much physical demand as musical. It's not so much that modern corps are using new technology to cheat as some think, but rather drum corps is and has been evolving.
+Loopy Bass have you seen the audience reactions to Crown the last couple years? If that's not "going absolutely ape s*** like they used to back in the day." I don't know what is.
For my money, NO ONE beats the SoA hornlines of the late '70's and early '80's. That 1980 hornline is just unreal.
Ok amplification might not of been needed back then but our corps sound a lot better than this. All of this stuff is just red lined and people are sticking out heavily. I'd rather us play as loudly as we can with our best sound and use amplifiers than sound super brassy and have tons of people sticking out of the sound without using amps. Just saying....
There's a couple of things to keep in mind. One, by this time, almost all corps were not just red lining. We were taught how to play with a full, powerful, supported sound. Now you're right about people sticking out, but some (not all) of that is the way shows were recorded then. Generally it was 2 or 4 mics, all of them close to the sideline and fairly near the 50. But I can say, though, that it was pretty rare by 1980 to have a corps simply trying to blow as loud as they could.
If they're now using recorded music in DCI shows, can you explain to me the purpose of even having a "live" show? I'm not being facetious; other commenters have said that some corps now blend in recorded music with the rest of the group.
If this is what DCI is now about, that's absolutely appalling; it's the same thing as lip-syncing.
If they sound so much better, where's the goosebumps?
The thing is Lonesome Dove, without us old school cronies, DCI wouldn't exist and you'd be stuck in a frigging MARCHING BAND !!!
😂😂😂😂!!
It seems as if everyone from the gool ol' days is very confused when it comes to amplification. The only section that is mic'd 100% of the time are the front ensemble. The purpose for that is so they don't have to bang on the keys in hopes of projecting and balancing with a large hornline. No hornlines are mic'd. That's just a thing that corps do not do. Not only is that a logistical nightmare, but there is no need for a 72+ member hornline to be mic'd. Soloists are mic'd for tone purposes.
I know this is a terribly old comment but I regret to inform you that the Bluecoats, the Cavaliers, and the Vanguard are all now essentially micing their entire hornline, and wearing pajamas in place of uniforms.
so great to just hear music and see a corps march, without all the theatrics and amplication
As a person who just watched DCI finals for the first time in person (and ever watching a DCI Corps live) I can say I definitely preferred no amplification. At least up front it gets muddy in sound quality
Its also because you are in a dome, those echoes ruin the cleanness of the corps
Dude with the tambourine is killing me!
The title of this is such a misnomer. Amplification is not required in today's drum corps. When it is used its for sound effects, singing/speaking, soloists and the pit to enhance the program. Horn lines are not amplified. I love the old style drum corps as much as anyone, but the activity has evolved with the times. It would have died out if it had stayed in a petrified state.
Michael, I have to disagree with your last statement. Many art and entertainment forms are doing just fine, and are fundamentally the same as they were 30, 40, 50 years ago. TV, movies, theater, music, dance...I could go on, but while all have certainly evolved, none have gone through the type of changes drum corps has. It's not Bb horns. It's not amplification. Rather it is things like the pit evolving until a corps no longer has two choirs, horns and percussion, but three. It's designing shows that are meant for insiders who follow the corps rather than the casual fan who will only see a corps once. And to me, mostly it's the consequence of those things that has resulted in the devaluing of the horn line and the musical book. The single biggest fundamental change is that shows used to begin with, and were designed to showcase the music. That's no longer true for the most part. Drum corps did not need to evolve away from centering on the music. As an old friend of mine used to say, no one ever walked out of a show whistling the drill.
I must disagree. NFL football has evolved. DCI has transformed into something else entirely. It is now a snooty insiders only club that isn't open to guests. Shows used analog percussive techniques prior to the keyboard breing added. Some corps use the keyboard to enhance weak bass tones. Where 8-9 contra basses was once the norm, 12 or more are necessary just to hope for balance. The Bflat horn lines make a beautiful sound, but if you take me back to my first show in 1987, DCI South, with a BD win and exhibition at the end,...F tuning pouring through my veins,...without that impact, I don't come back because there is no reason, no hook. What you have now is highly refined marching band, without wood winds. It's like going to Vegas to hear a saloon singer because you once heard this guy named Sinatra with extraordinary interpretive abilities, charisma and an imperfect yet magnificent baritone voice. When you get there you find this guy named Buble,...vocally superior in every way, but not what I paid for. That was me at DCI SW about 4 years ago at my first show since 2003. The kids are still phenomenal and DCI is great at what it does,...but I've got to think that if fans were to hear,...to EXPERIENCE G bugles again, and that the kids could feel the raw power and unique beauty they are creating, it would all be worthwhile.
Some people miss the bad intonation - there's nothing you can do for them. ;)
JonFrumTheFirst that's the sad truth.
You said it! Singing and speaking are not a part of traditional Drum Corps! Evolving? What you are saying is not what DCI has a adopted. Check your updates.
2:00.... that drum major....... brilliant!
So back when you were a typical nerdy lower class high school band that didn't move. It's called MARCHING band for a reason.
Have the people complaining about the front ensemble really taken the time to listen to them? What they play is beautiful. And the only reason you'd be able to hear the beauty and intricacy of what they do is largely in part to amplification. Everyone that says they have stopped going to shows because its different has that right...but we're still kids doing drum corps because we love it.
Just went to my first DCI competition since 1988. Wow! A lot has changed, and in my opinion, NOT for the better. Call me an old fart, call me whatever you want, but what I witnessed was: A) what corp can manufacture the best props; B) who can wear the most non-march-like costumes; C) who can present the best 'theater'; D) props used to distract the viewer, possibly even the judges, from flaws in a corps movement and performance. What I heard was: 1) extremely loud amplifiers said to supposedly provide more bass sound; 2) amplifiers so loud they hid flaws in a corps audio performance; 3) booming amplifiers so loud it was akin to attending a movie theater. In short, I went to a DCI competition to see and hear an outside FIELD competition. I ask you, how is this even possible if purposeful actions are taken to mask flaws in the visual & audio performances? Yes, to whomever said in in another comment, I DO absolutely resent being called an old fuddy-duddy because I have the audacity to actually want to listen and see what an actual corp is made of - flaws and all. You can't really do that with all the hiding going on can you? Take away the overuse of props/electronic amplification and I guarantee you'll see who the best corps really are. I mean, gee whiz! Why not just place 2 or 3 jumbo screens in the middle of the field and we can all be outside together watching that? Ridiculous! And just to be clear, I'm not hating on these kids - they've worked their tails off to provide us with a great performance. In fact it's just the opposite. I am hating on a DCI organization and its board members, who seem to have voted on and are completely at ease "lazying up" what was a true Drum, Bugle and Drill Corp competition. They seem content with all these periphery affects, and uninterested in hearing and seeing the work these kids put in. For the person who said it in another comment, complain all you want about how out of tune the past performances you just viewed in the above video were, but this is what differentiated one corp from another...hearing who played stronger. The same goes for seeing; ie seeing if guns or flags were dropped and how a drill line would recover after the error. It's a wonder the judges can even see where mistakes are. So yes, I went to see THAT kind of competition recently. This said, I won't waste my time in the future, as regrettably, I could have just as easily watched it on TV, or in re-runs, as that's what you get now live at the stadium. Nope, not willing to change my view on this, sorry. I'm not sure where the future is with DCI competitions, but see electric guitars, stages, fireworks and motorcycles just around the corner. Its just incredibly sad.
can't wait until this guys sees microphones on marching instruments.... on the field marching
Great fun and great traditions. Love it. I was big fan then and still a big fan today. I'll just leave at that.
Oh look it's the modern day college marching band...
yes, or even a field orchestra.
Regardless of how anyone feels about drum corps amplification, the fact is that the activity has progressed a great deal since the time of this video. These old corps are absolutely GREAT for what they presented (the raw power alone is something to be respected). But EVERYTHING progresses unless it dies. Considering the length of time that drum corps has been around, some sort of evolution had to take place. If drum corps didn't evolve and doesn't continue to evolve it will die.
DCI is currently living/dying by its own sword. If they don't have enough money....oh, well.
They never realized that that pursuit could kill 'em, too. This makes obvious the difference between them & VFW/Legion drum corps. One was a grass roots organization that coukd be run on a shoestring.
DCI? Well, now we know. If it was abt the kids getting to play, they wouldn't be so exclusionary. Instead it became abt making money to spend a lot of money to making money again. At least, that was their excuse when they first tried to sell all if us how those nasty old masters in the VFW & American Legion were making TONS of bucks off off all those poor, EXPLOITED children.
Well, I'd sure like to know how much of an increased their corps see in the prizes they won. If it was substantial, then how come they still needed to tap those kids for 3 to 5 grand just to get kn the road for 2 or 3 wks? What did they.do w/all that $? My corps owned its own buses & we held bake sakes & car washes & dinner socials @ local halls. We painted them ourselves. Our dads drove them. Our moms made our uniforms. And we actually traveled on whatever we earned in parades or personal appearances & an add'l fifty cents a wk DUES. In contrast, I recall reading in Drum Corps News long ago abt one corps who raised $ by running a local gas station & whatever profits were made on those days they were on duty they got to keep. Those people were DCI Founders. All the junk they dragged into the activity were no more than them saying "Unless you're gonna spend OUR kind of money, you'll never beat us...". This is the difference in the 2 activities. And the problem is, they didn't prove anything. They just froze out the competition that just a few decades ago could beat them.like they owned 'em. Eliminated the wild talent that might not know how to read music but could wail out on the field. The professionals COULDN'T have THAT! What's the sense of sending little Billy to the conservatory twice a wk when the coarse kid from down the street goes out w/his corps every wknd and creams him? Don't wanna see little Billy disappointed, now do we? So, how do we "fix" it? How do we show America that the little know-nuthins aren't better than us?
😁