There are obviously pros and cons to using 10 or 8 grain pellets. The lighter pellets will obviously have a flatter trajectory, whereas the heavier pellets won’t be affected, by the wind quite as much. That is basically the deciding factor when it comes to pellet choice on competition day. If there is a stiff breeze, I would use the heavies. I do prefer the lighter pellets though. I use QYS streamline 8.48gr. Unless it is blowing a gale, they handle a breeze very well.
Thank you Dan for your great videos. My remark on this one is that I think we should judge the horizontal spread (drift) by measuring it from the vertical center line. Not by measuring the total left to right spread as you did in the video. Reason for this being that the shots to the left of the vertical line will be caused by a different wind direction than the shots on the right hand side of the vertical line. At 55 yards it looks like the 7.9 grain pellets have been shot in a left to right wind only while the 8.4's have had wind from BOTH sides during the shooting of the group. And as wind is the most difficult factor to judge in a competition the pellet that takes the least wind effect will be the best choice. My conclusion would then be that the 8.4 grain is the overall best pellet considering wind spread and drop. I did a quite elaborate testing of 8.4 and 10.3 grain JSB pellets this year. I shot 16 groups of 10 shots each over three different windy days with 2 batches of each weight at a distance of 55 yards. The 8.4 and 10.3 groups were shot alternating on each day. The outcome was that the difference in horizontal spread over all groups shot was only 1 millimetre between the 8.4 and 10.3 grain pellets. My conclusion is that there is not any significant difference in wind drift between 10.3 and 8.4 pellets.
A good point 👍🏻 In my anicdotal experience, the 10.3s allow you to 'play the percentages' s bit more in a low to mderate wind but after prob 10 mph, there is no difference. They can allow you to stay (ahem) inside edge 😎 as oppose to having to commit, as you might with an 8.4. The chsllenge with this test was getting to shoot all 3 weights through the same gun on the same day, at the same power. I got close but it wasn't a perfect test. I think we sometimes magnify the differences between different weights in our minds. For example, I just shot the European FT Champs and was worried about shooting them at the >25° angles I knew would be there - I had even toyed with the idea of going back to 8.4s just for this shoot - but in the event I just followed my Chairgun generated click chart and all was well. Thanks for watching 😊
Mate, valiant effort! Nice one. Something we all ask ourselves, but few make a scientific effort to test. I certainly have made the effort and can conclude this: we're chasing our tails! Except for indoor match shooting, there are simply too many variables for the shooter to asses or control. 'Gun, conditions, pellet' sounds simple, but each is a category in itself that we simply can't control 100%. And velocity measurements don't help, because they are neither totally accurate, nor tell the whole story. Eg, did the pellet sped up because the pellet was lighter; the wind shifted; the wind dropped; the sun came out; the barrel feed up; the reg let out more air; the hammer hit harder etc etc etc! Rifle shooting is about control and we kid ourselves we can control everything and achieve perfection. We can't. But this realisation does help us. It indicates we should avoid extremes. Pellets that require perfect construction, perfect gun output and perfect environmental conditions. To me, that's very light pellets or very heavy ones. Light pellets are too crucially affected by wind and construction deviance - as you say, their slight benefit of trajectory is a controllable variable that competition shooters should be beyond. Also, I think they're really designed for lower power (German domestic) target guns. On the flip side, heavy pellets are resistant to construction deviance, cross winds and tail winds; but they suffer badly from anything that causes velocity to drop and flight instability to increase (mainly power fluctuation or head winds) - their trajectory (or drift) then becomes too hard to control. 10+gr is a heavy thing for a Sub-12 and I think they're just too marginal in most guns (except Continental or FAC guns, for which they're really designed). So for me, with a Sub-12, off the shelf rifle, in outdoor, highly variable wind/temperature/humidity, shooting uphill or down, the middle is the happy place. Either 8.5 (JSB or H&N Baracuda 8) or 9.5gr (I'm leaning 9.5 QYS SH or H&N BFT), in a modern design from a reputable brand. Pick the most consistent (not necessarily the most accurate in perfect conditions) pellet for your gun and try to stay above the temptation to join a polarised crowd!
Very interesting. I would echo alot of your thoughts there. I've long said that FT is a sport about the management of variabes. Pellets are ultimatey the weakest link in the chain; one single-use, throw away component. But massive gains if you canget this part of your kit right ✅️ 👍🏻
Without putting a lot more pellets per group, it’s difficult to make any conclusions with drift, as the wind will vary with every group shot. It would be interesting to shoot another group with slugs, as they tend to Buck the wind better. Thanks for the exercise though
Thank you for a great video. I imagine the Anschutz air rifle likes 4.50 size pellets better than 4.52 size pellets. The 10.3 gr pellets are all 4.52, that is why the accuracy might be lacking with those 10.3gr pellets. Very interesting
Thanks 👍🏻 Actually, whenI was shooting 8.4s, both my 9003 and old 2002 preferred a tighter fitting 4.53. I think you just need to try a few different batches and see what suits your barrel.
Whilst a 55 yard indoor facility is a rarity, it would be a more accurate comparison, as the wind is not a constant and skews the results to a good degree.
Excellent vid .. and super interesting .. subbed .. brillant stuff .. Ps , tend to ( mostly , but not exclusively ) use the QYS 9.56 grn .. especially at the range up too 55mtrs .. gives a good balance of accuracy in still and slightly windy conditions ..
I also like the QYS 9gn, in the Streamline design. I very nearly changed to them earlier in the year but decided to go with what I knew, in the shape of the JSBs.
Repeating the experiment and gathering more data for comparison would help but keeping things consistent ie eliminating unwanted variables as much as possible is a significant challenge. This was a commendable effort.
Hi, if you're shooting 8.4s now then, if you want more speed, you could increase the Reg pressure. However, I'd start by increasing the tension on the hammer (if you can) first. Tip: heavier pellets generally want a slightly higher Reg pressure. Have fun and thanks for watching 👍🏻
Increase the size of the transfer port and the size of the hole from where air bleeds while pressing the trigger to 4 mm , install a heavy hammer spring along with a heavy hammer, use jsb slugs @100 meters single hole , then u can go all the way upto 20 gr slug
Most of the time in longer than those distances and maybe at those ft or hft distances,a good patch of any weight is preferable than the perfect in theory !
Hello. I'm very interested in your comparaison, as I'm looking for the right pellet to shoot at long distances with the 24 joules carbine I just ordered. I have been told that the heavier JSB handle power the best. So I was wondering, What is the power of your equipment in joules? Thanks in advance.
I’d suggest the fairest way to compare pellets outdoors is by using 3 identical rifles all fired together. Wind will affect them at same time. Using only one rifle the wind can change between barrel cleaning etc giving false results. Just saying.
Yes, its not an exact science. Sadly I am but one man! 😎 There are so many variables in our sport, which is what makes it such much fun...and frustrating LOL
Hi, because it has an extrnally accessible hammer adjuster. My 9003 doesn't, so I would have had to take it out of the stock each time to change the power so as I was shooting each pellet at the same ft lbs energy. Plus, my rig was shooting really well at the time and I didn't want to disturb it! 1😇
10.3s at 11.5 ft lbs. I had trouble getting the power that high on the 8.4s and 7.9s, so they were both shot at 11ft lbs. Close enough to each other that I dont think it had a bearing anyway.
Apologies, I dont know why I didnt see your comment earlier. Hmm🤔 I've not shor BR but...as you're shooting at a fixed distance, I would say weight is less relevant and its more about shot to shot consistency, which comes from minimal pellet to pellet variation. That said, if outdoors, then wind is a factor...so 8.4s a good compromise or starting place, for sure. Thanks for watching, glad it was thought-provoking 😀
You need to practice more , crank up the power at 900 fps accuracy will be much better, your gun has a shorter barrel like pistol also its sub 12 ft pound which sucks
Not one single exspert on UT clearly exsplanes how to adjust the trigger pull on a 177 cal swarm . New longer screw , bla bla bla. Didn't ask for new tires 🤨 !. Remember setting fuel jets on a carb ? Half turn or full turn ect. Yall should work at the VA . 🙄
Jesuz, dude what an awful scope or and rifle. I put 10. 34gr on top of each other at all those ranges. Why is your zero so low ? Keep practicing fella.
Yeah, I was disappointed with them too. But mitigating circumstances, as I said in the vid. I've always used a 35 yard zero. Most in FT run with a 25yds zero now, as its usually 'the bottom of the curve' and you only ever dial up. Im just a bluff old traditionalist at heart 🤣
@theinsideedge0707 Hey brother, good days n bad days. Rough with the smooth. Sometimes, reality is harsh. But don't give up or in. You have a great platform. So be great.
Oh dear, a truly scientific test takes no account of personal opinions i.e. wind and tumbling etc. A true test should first be indoors with no external forces and gun clamped, then same outside in windy conditions or even rain at 90 degrees to see how pellets are affected, if they are at all.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
There are obviously pros and cons to using 10 or 8 grain pellets. The lighter pellets will obviously have a flatter trajectory, whereas the heavier pellets won’t be affected, by the wind quite as much. That is basically the deciding factor when it comes to pellet choice on competition day. If there is a stiff breeze, I would use the heavies. I do prefer the lighter pellets though. I use QYS streamline 8.48gr. Unless it is blowing a gale, they handle a breeze very well.
Thank you Dan for your great videos. My remark on this one is that
I think we should judge the horizontal spread (drift) by measuring it from the vertical center line. Not by measuring the total left to right spread as you did in the video. Reason for this being that the shots to the left of the vertical line will be caused by a different wind direction than the shots on the right hand side of the vertical line. At 55 yards it looks like the 7.9 grain pellets have been shot in a left to right wind only while the 8.4's have had wind from BOTH sides during the shooting of the group. And as wind is the most difficult factor to judge in a competition the pellet that takes the least wind effect will be the best choice. My conclusion would then be that the 8.4 grain is the overall best pellet considering wind spread and drop.
I did a quite elaborate testing of 8.4 and 10.3 grain JSB pellets this year. I shot 16 groups of 10 shots each over three different windy days with 2 batches of each weight at a distance of 55 yards. The 8.4 and 10.3 groups were shot alternating on each day. The outcome was that the difference in horizontal spread over all groups shot was only 1 millimetre between the 8.4 and 10.3 grain pellets. My conclusion is that there is not any significant difference in wind drift between 10.3 and 8.4 pellets.
A good point 👍🏻
In my anicdotal experience, the 10.3s allow you to 'play the percentages' s bit more in a low to mderate wind but after prob 10 mph, there is no difference.
They can allow you to stay (ahem) inside edge 😎 as oppose to having to commit, as you might with an 8.4.
The chsllenge with this test was getting to shoot all 3 weights through the same gun on the same day, at the same power.
I got close but it wasn't a perfect test.
I think we sometimes magnify the differences between different weights in our minds. For example, I just shot the European FT Champs and was worried about shooting them at the >25° angles I knew would be there - I had even toyed with the idea of going back to 8.4s just for this shoot - but in the event I just followed my Chairgun generated click chart and all was well.
Thanks for watching 😊
Great informative video 👍 Many thanks for showing and never run out of pellets mate😁
Enjoyed your experiment very much. Would be interesting to see what 10.3 would actually do when sized/weighed.
Thanks for posting.
Mate, valiant effort! Nice one. Something we all ask ourselves, but few make a scientific effort to test. I certainly have made the effort and can conclude this: we're chasing our tails! Except for indoor match shooting, there are simply too many variables for the shooter to asses or control. 'Gun, conditions, pellet' sounds simple, but each is a category in itself that we simply can't control 100%. And velocity measurements don't help, because they are neither totally accurate, nor tell the whole story. Eg, did the pellet sped up because the pellet was lighter; the wind shifted; the wind dropped; the sun came out; the barrel feed up; the reg let out more air; the hammer hit harder etc etc etc! Rifle shooting is about control and we kid ourselves we can control everything and achieve perfection. We can't.
But this realisation does help us. It indicates we should avoid extremes. Pellets that require perfect construction, perfect gun output and perfect environmental conditions. To me, that's very light pellets or very heavy ones. Light pellets are too crucially affected by wind and construction deviance - as you say, their slight benefit of trajectory is a controllable variable that competition shooters should be beyond. Also, I think they're really designed for lower power (German domestic) target guns. On the flip side, heavy pellets are resistant to construction deviance, cross winds and tail winds; but they suffer badly from anything that causes velocity to drop and flight instability to increase (mainly power fluctuation or head winds) - their trajectory (or drift) then becomes too hard to control. 10+gr is a heavy thing for a Sub-12 and I think they're just too marginal in most guns (except Continental or FAC guns, for which they're really designed).
So for me, with a Sub-12, off the shelf rifle, in outdoor, highly variable wind/temperature/humidity, shooting uphill or down, the middle is the happy place. Either 8.5 (JSB or H&N Baracuda 8) or 9.5gr (I'm leaning 9.5 QYS SH or H&N BFT), in a modern design from a reputable brand. Pick the most consistent (not necessarily the most accurate in perfect conditions) pellet for your gun and try to stay above the temptation to join a polarised crowd!
Very interesting. I would echo alot of your thoughts there.
I've long said that FT is a sport about the management of variabes. Pellets are ultimatey the weakest link in the chain; one single-use, throw away component. But massive gains if you canget this part of your kit right ✅️ 👍🏻
An amazing video, brilliant topic and content and great and clear testing. many thanks.
Lots of food for thought, really interersting video, thanks Dan!
Would like to see the same again but with weighed and messured pellets on a no wind day
Without putting a lot more pellets per group, it’s difficult to make any conclusions with drift, as the wind will vary with every group shot. It would be interesting to shoot another group with slugs, as they tend to Buck the wind better.
Thanks for the exercise though
Nice one Dan, interesting result, like you said it depends a lot on what your barrel likes!
💯
Some very interesting results Dan, and totally devoid of any bs or dodgy editing whoch seems to be rife with these air rifle vids on YT 👍.
Thank you for a great video. I imagine the Anschutz air rifle likes 4.50 size pellets better than 4.52 size pellets. The 10.3 gr pellets are all 4.52, that is why the accuracy might be lacking with those 10.3gr pellets. Very interesting
Thanks 👍🏻
Actually, whenI was shooting 8.4s, both my 9003 and old 2002 preferred a tighter fitting 4.53.
I think you just need to try a few different batches and see what suits your barrel.
Keep them coming Dan .....that was an excellent watch.
The Best one is the one you get used to !
Whilst a 55 yard indoor facility is a rarity, it would be a more accurate comparison, as the wind is not a constant and skews the results to a good degree.
I use JSB 8.64 4.52mm
Excellent vid .. and super interesting .. subbed .. brillant stuff ..
Ps , tend to ( mostly , but not exclusively ) use the QYS 9.56 grn .. especially at the range up too 55mtrs .. gives a good balance of accuracy in still and slightly windy conditions ..
I also like the QYS 9gn, in the Streamline design. I very nearly changed to them earlier in the year but decided to go with what I knew, in the shape of the JSBs.
I would do the same experiment two plus more times under consistent conditions to really get a good base line to go off of.
Repeating the experiment and gathering more data for comparison would help but keeping things consistent ie eliminating unwanted variables as much as possible is a significant challenge. This was a commendable effort.
Thanks very interesting Video! Gives me inspiration to go do this experiment for myself.
💯 definitely an eye-opener!
Enjoyed that, cheers Dan!
Good video. In this case if I do want more speed with 8.44. Should I increase the regulator pressure or lower it? Thank you
Hi, if you're shooting 8.4s now then, if you want more speed, you could increase the Reg pressure.
However, I'd start by increasing the tension on the hammer (if you can) first.
Tip: heavier pellets generally want a slightly higher Reg pressure.
Have fun and thanks for watching 👍🏻
Nice vid Dan . Like it buddy . 👍👍
Increase the size of the transfer port and the size of the hole from where air bleeds while pressing the trigger to 4 mm , install a heavy hammer spring along with a heavy hammer, use jsb slugs @100 meters single hole , then u can go all the way upto 20 gr slug
Most of the time in longer than those distances and maybe at those ft or hft distances,a good patch of any weight is preferable than the perfect in theory !
💯
Hello. I'm very interested in your comparaison, as I'm looking for the right pellet to shoot at long distances with the 24 joules carbine I just ordered. I have been told that the heavier JSB handle power the best. So I was wondering, What is the power of your equipment in joules?
Thanks in advance.
I’d suggest the fairest way to compare pellets outdoors is by using 3 identical rifles all fired together. Wind will affect them at same time. Using only one rifle the wind can change between barrel cleaning etc giving false results. Just saying.
Yes, its not an exact science. Sadly I am but one man! 😎
There are so many variables in our sport, which is what makes it such much fun...and frustrating LOL
Great video thank you
Thanks for sharing 👍
Any charges in your pellet selection since the video?
For FT I shoot heavies in my lg110,
8.44 in my hw97 and RS in my fwb300
If you were using a Springer the 7.9 may be a good bet!
Springun shooting is a dark art! 😄
@@theinsideedge0707 We would happily welcome you to the dark side, young padwan.
Love the hat Dan 😉🤣
😆 well spotted Joel! Its one of my favourites and sees regular action on the FT circuit; for which I have you to thank of course 🙌🏻
Same manufacturer should also mean same lead composition you would think
Excelente video amigo like para ti y nuevo suscriptor,desde el canal amigo pcp joselu🤝
Great Hat !
Good test.
Very informative👍 subed👍
hello Dan,a quick question,,,why you used your Dad's gun,,rather than your own?? Thanks
Hi, because it has an extrnally accessible hammer adjuster.
My 9003 doesn't, so I would have had to take it out of the stock each time to change the power so as I was shooting each pellet at the same ft lbs energy.
Plus, my rig was shooting really well at the time and I didn't want to disturb it! 1😇
I’m in Fareham, do they still have hft here ?
Hi, hmm, Im not sure. Try Southampton Buccaneers:
sbftc.co.uk/
Have fun! 😊
i am assuming these were all shot at
10.3s at 11.5 ft lbs. I had trouble getting the power that high on the 8.4s and 7.9s, so they were both shot at 11ft lbs. Close enough to each other that I dont think it had a bearing anyway.
If you'd of listened you would of heard what the power was
Okay Danster, 25m benchrest ? I’d be going with the 7.9, but then drift wise, it seems 8.4s would be a better choice ?
What@@jamesgreen9665
Apologies, I dont know why I didnt see your comment earlier. Hmm🤔 I've not shor BR but...as you're shooting at a fixed distance, I would say weight is less relevant and its more about shot to shot consistency, which comes from minimal pellet to pellet variation. That said, if outdoors, then wind is a factor...so 8.4s a good compromise or starting place, for sure.
Thanks for watching, glad it was thought-provoking 😀
Results might be totally different in your gun.
Marginal gaines......I'll go with that.... good vid DE
You need to practice more , crank up the power at 900 fps accuracy will be much better, your gun has a shorter barrel like pistol also its sub 12 ft pound which sucks
and in the UK you would get 5 years in jail..
The UK with their castrated air guns. 😂
Not one single exspert on UT clearly exsplanes how to adjust the trigger pull on a 177 cal swarm . New longer screw , bla bla bla. Didn't ask for new tires 🤨 !. Remember setting fuel jets on a carb ? Half turn or full turn ect. Yall should work at the VA . 🙄
Jesuz, dude what an awful scope or and rifle. I put 10. 34gr on top of each other at all those ranges. Why is your zero so low ? Keep practicing fella.
Yeah, I was disappointed with them too. But mitigating circumstances, as I said in the vid.
I've always used a 35 yard zero. Most in FT run with a 25yds zero now, as its usually 'the bottom of the curve' and you only ever dial up. Im just a bluff old traditionalist at heart 🤣
@theinsideedge0707 Hey brother, good days n bad days. Rough with the smooth. Sometimes, reality is harsh. But don't give up or in. You have a great platform. So be great.
Oh dear, a truly scientific test takes no account of personal opinions i.e. wind and tumbling etc. A true test should first be indoors with no external forces and gun clamped, then same outside in windy conditions or even rain at 90 degrees to see how pellets are affected, if they are at all.
I’ll look forward to your video. 👍