Rishi Sunak’s Betting Scandal, The Labour Party’s Approach to Gaza & Optimism for Keir Starmer
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Ben Rhodes is joined by guest host David Lammy, British MP and Shadow Foreign Secretary. They discuss the upcoming election in the UK on July 4th and how historic a Labour win by Keir Starmer would be, how to read into popular support for Nigel Farage and his far-right party, an election betting scandal from people within Rishi Sunak’s inner circle, and the key domestic and economic issues on the line. They also talk about David’s theory of “progressive realism” and how a Labour foreign policy would continue to advocate for unity on the war in Ukraine, pressure Hamas and Netanyahu to agree to a ceasefire, and what it would mean for David to represent his country as Foreign Secretary. Then, Ben touches on the arrival of a Kenyan police force in Haiti, Julian Assange’s release from prison, and speaks to New York Times reporter Ed Wong about his new book, “At the Edge of Empire: A Family's Reckoning with China”.
CHAPTERS
0:00 - Intro
2:47 - David Lammy joins
4:54 - The Labour Party & Keir Starmer
10:40 - The crisis on The Right
16:35 - Rishi Sunak & The Tory Party
20:43 - Labour Party Foreign Policies
50:10 - Julian Assange
52:18 - Haiti Security Support Mission
54:53 - Ed Wong interview
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#podsavetheworld #rishisunak #thelabourparty
John Oliver put it best...if a rabid badger has been wrecking your house for 14 years, the first thing to do is get rid of that badger, then you can think about redecorating. Perfect analogy. ABC - anything but conservative.
The current incarnation of the Labour Party has essentially all the same policies as the conservatives.
Except they will have a giant majority. And a completely dictatorial party system that makes it impossible to kick out the leader.
The same policies will lead to the same failure and decline.
Which will send people into the arms of the far right.
It has happened many times in history and it's happening again.
@@michaelrchAgree Starmer is deeply disliked by the base. He hardly exhibits any labour value.
@@user36112 indeed. I would take out the word "hardky". He is a consummate liar and authoritarian. He has courted billionaires and alienated unions and the working class.
He is the establishment's man through and through.
@@user36112 So you’re voting conservative?
@@goldskygregor yes of course. The Labour Party are too far right so he's voting Conservative... 🤦♂️
I get being pragmatic, but if you can just jettison a principle for convenience sake then it isn’t a principle. The MP makes a decent case for big-picture progressivism but the way he dismissed even the concern about the possibility of over-correction is a worrying sign that some principles that are jettisoned to win over the public will not make their way back into the party and thus back into policy. In that respect, if we’re looking at the big picture then Labour has a chance to become more analogous to the Tories as much as it has a chance to be a long-term progressive shift in UK politics.
It's worse than that.
Labour are throwing out policies that have strong public support like nationalisation of the water companies and railways. The £28 billion for climate had majority support among TORY voters. But it doesn't fit their austerity ideology so it was simply deleted from the platform. What's left is work 5% of the spending they previously promised.
They have no agenda for change.
They are just the conservative B team.
He is drunk on his own supply, everybody except him knows they are winning by default. Poll after poll, it's anything but Tories and people hate Starme. Tossing the left wing was completely uncalled-for, especially their poor treatment even of those who were loyal and got results.
OMG, Starmer on Gaza is just gross. I would never want him to be my lawyer.
precisely - I was abt to comment this! 100% thanks for writing it out for me haha
guy says a lot of words but doesn't seem to say anything. if nish was interviewing, he would have pushed back on lamy's overcorrecting non-answer. a mp candidate was dropped for a like on a tweet. maybe that's why he isn't on pod save the uk.
I think the UK may have to wait for growth but if Labour wants to get more than 5 years they need to really improve the NHS.
they wont raise any meaningful money so how would they? They will be in for 5 years with nothing improved and then it's Farage's turn and it will be this labour government's fault!
I think it depends where YOU as a voter place your priorities. 'Improve' the NHS could mean anything and some can't be rectified in the space of five years.
Bold of you to assume anyone in the uk thinks about American independence day.
About 25 years ago I worked for Bass Brewers selling beer to Northern working Men's clubs, we sold some an Anheuser-Busch too. When the 4/7 came up, they wanted to do a beer promo on Budweizer with promo kits celebrating American Independence day. Saler people are always blind to what they are trying to do if they can make sale out of it. We were baffled they wanted us to get Northern working men celebrating independence day of America. (Only recently found out it's just 13 of 50 states that existed that went independent. I wonder if they have independence days America for the Spanish and the French owned states too).
Lammy self-describing as a progressive is hilarious. His response to Labour's "ruthless overcorrecting" is arrogant and dismissive. Labour seems more concerned about getting Tory votes than they are about maintaining their own left wing voters. So, identical to the Democrats.
Better to maintain that ideological purity and let conservatives remain in power, right?
Completely agree with @Kassofan. He presented a ridiculous reductive choice: stick to principles or win elections. In this case "purism"and litmus tests are being applied not BY progressives but ruthlessly just TO progressives so that they don't step out of line - heaven forbid they seek any serious solution to genocide in Gaza. British imperialism was a major reason Palestine was plundered and ravaged- they need to be a little more active in trying to find solutions, instead of conducting show trials and purges among their own.
@@archon9383 If you hold that belief, start a new party called, " Kick torries out" I imagine it will win many votes and you can leave labour and it's values alone.
@@archon9383 there's lirerally no point in kicking the tories out if you're just going to accept their right wing arguments.
All it does is tell the electorate there's no alternative to hating on immigrants and running the economy like it's a household budget (insane). It's set up perfectly for a far right government to get in in 5 years who will just do this stuff better.
Hearing a British person say it's wrong to live in a world where big powers redraw the map for their smaller neighbors is really just one of the most surreal moments I've had listening to this podcast
Well done K Rudd, Smith, Albanese govt to get Assange out. Eye opening to learn from US prosecutor that no one was EVER harmed from Wikileaks. Guess when Assange claimed he did indeed redact information with a code/ software he developed. That was true!. They didn't correct that misinformation for years!! Which spread like wildfire. Man that's up there with learning Hilary wanted to eliminate Assange. Geeze now I understand why she didn't get elected. Her actions aren't ageing well. Clappers comments also indicates the process i.e 14 years in confiment was part of the pain. Sorry I meant plan.
One question the public want to know, did those people who committed war crimes ever get disciplined? Like that helicopter operator and the guy shooting journalists and innocent civilians. Who gave that order? Were they subsequently promoted what happened. As a liberal democracy US should answer these questions. Otherwise the stain on its reputation will just continue to grow with its ever increasing list of war crimes.
I know. These people are either just compulsive liars or they live in a self-reinforced fantasy world where we actually are the good guys. Despite centuries of evidence to the contrary.
We won because we exploited and consumed the rest of the world most effectively.
Why? Would you find it more comforting that British people persist with the horrible prejudices of Empire and *insist* they had it right the first time?? Do you want them to have not progressed at all in their views?
Also David Lammy, though British and definitely someone with a bit more power than most as he's an MP - is not someone who you look at and say: "yeah I can definitely tell your ancestral family when it came to British Empire were living off the spoils colonised lands". Like, people do appreciate that modern Britian is not filled 100% with horrific people with horrific legacies? Don't get me wrong there are loads of in-denial racists who are still trying, but that goes for *everybody* in *every nation*. I mean I dont know about the country you're from - would you say ALL of your marginalised groups are all super-happy with both your past and present history, no complaints? Everything's perfect?
@@akinyiomer4589 I'm not sure why you've brought 'racism' into the discussion. Lammy's genetic heritage doesn't make him immune from being an 'elite'. I've had some dealing with him and he takes care of #1; he's typical of the Labour politicians such as Starmer and Thornberry - he'll say whatever it takes to position himself in power and doesn't identify with low income people, brown or white-skinned.
@@edelgyn2699 I think you need go re-read my comment because that is not what I was saying at all. Nor did I bring up racism by bringing up race. Drawing attention to Lammy's race and pointing out the *likelihood* that his ancestral family didn't have it easy is an absolute no-brainer from a historical point of view. I also very carefully prefaced my point by saying that Lammy has a lil' more power than the average citizen because of his political position so I don't know why you're arguing as if I left this unacknowledged?
I only brought up the word racism in the context that there are still some Brits - undeniably and evidentially so - that are in denial about the country's past and present. This should be such an uncontroversial truth given how much of the world struggles with xenophobia. I didn't mention who they were as I was making a generalised statement and was not making a specific accusation that they had acted badly towards Lammy specifically.
I'm just not sure the labour wave will last if it comes to pass. Starmer just seems like an empty suit who stands for nothing
This is genuinely my big fear. Starmer seems to be offering something between Blair and the pre-Boris Tories, which... fine, is better than what we're currently experiencing, but clearly won't fix the mess we're in because it helped get us here. I suspect Starmer's government will slightly halt the decline of our nation and MIGHT start some very mild inklings of improvement, but it won't be anywhere near enough because they're not willing to engage with any kind of radical change. So in five years time there will still be massive NHS waiting lists, significant levels of child poverty, mass food-bank usage, mass homelessness, potholes everywhere, a struggling education system, the list goes on. And when people are able to say "We've tried the Tories and we've tried Labour and neither of them fixed the issue", they'll turn to whoever makes the biggest, boldest promises about improving everything - which invariably will be whatever right-wing populist outfit catches the public attention most effectively during Starmer's first and likely only term. Probably Farage will lead it or else will endorse it in some way, but maybe it'll be some new populist liar. In either case, I'm not that bothered about this coming election, but I'm kind of terrified about the next one.
Imagine a Labour Party that is only in power for one in four elections thinking that we shouldn’t change the electoral system. Talk about voting for christmas
Is UK Labour government going to push for nuclear, the most expensive and security-vulnerable energy source?
Lammy is a liar and a coward. His track record on Gaza has been revolting.
Lamy is well known to be funded by the Israel lobby. This version of the Labour party is there for big businesses and the Super rich and not for the rest of the country.
Agreed!
No, he's been balanced and pragmatic.
I don’t know what a Labour government will look like for us Scots but the Tory grasp needs to be loosened.
It will look almost exactly the same as the Tories. They have been explicit that they are Thatcherites who want to further privatise the NHS. And they will spend next to nothing on things like climate or child poverty. But they will raise spending on the military.
So meet the new PM. Same as the old PM.
I doubt any of us (other than committed Labour members) will notice much difference and things won't change. I can envisage Labour politicians quoting vacuous stats in four years time and claiming low income people are better off, but I doubt many of us will be materially more secure or empowered.
Starmer is a douche. Yeah he'll win. But not because he's inspiring. But mainly cause the torries are soo awful. Starmer needs to learn humanity and compassion to remain labour leader. Something he's not capable to learn. Shame special interest groups targeted and destroyed Corbyn. Now that is the man who has the labour heart in truck loads. The world needs leaders like Corbyn who stand up for what's right. A rare entity in politics these days
Corbyn destroyed himself. Starmer is a smart operator. Labour wins with moderate leaders that normal people aren't scared of.
Lammy is so cringe. So anxious to demonstrate fealty to US FP positions. He’s execrable.
Did he mention proportional Representation? I've got 42 minutes in and I can't endure any more.
How very Szijjártó of him... this "Progressive Realism" is exactly what Orbán tried with the Global South, focusing on the Turk council, some African countries and of course China. This is the current level of thought in the UK. Incredible.
Thatcher achieved destruction. Really nothing to boast about or aspire to.
Anyone else feel second hand embarrassment when Lammy was praising Starmer? Being able to watch on the sidelines as the torries explode is not some 4D chess maneuver. The fanaticism borders on strange/cultish.
I stopped watching the interview there. But the host seemed to believe it as well, which is strange considering their British podcast spinoff.
@@TheJonHolstein Ben was clearly being 'Kind' to a friend. He clearly had the goods, but held back as it wasn't that kind of interview.
@@oohhboy-funhouse If you plan to do a "friendly", just don't do the interview at all. It is one thing if you land a rare interview with a really high profile person, to not dare to do a hard hitting interview. But what was the point of this interview. I stopped watching, but saw the chapter indexing, and from how the interview begun, I can't think that the guest would have any meaningful input on any of those topics.
@@TheJonHolstein Given how the comments are working out, Ben inadvertently or not, has given all the rope for Lammy to hang. But, yeah, I see where you are coming from on this, and it wasn't the best.
@@TheJonHolstein nish and coco would do better but they are controlled by these yanks
A move to proportional representation would help the Labour Party deliver a sustained progressive agenda. I am hugely disappointed by Kier Starmer’s reported comments in support of first past the post system. If the Labour Party abandons its support for PR, I will resign my membership and move to a progressive party that supports PR.
So power remains more important than calling a genocide a genocide. Gotcha.
Lmaoooo the gritted teeth "that's why we're friends" is such a mood
Incredible to hear these two people who come from these two countries, who have been involved in the history of hundreds of countries, provoking coups d'état, buying governments, installing dictators, invading, say these things about the war in Ukraine!! a little self-criticism, please!!!
Interesting episode
I'm a progressive in Canada and follow British politics pretty closely because we're staring down the barrel of a conservative majority next October. what ever plans he has with Trudeau he better get on that quick. The liberals just lost a seat they have held for 30 years in a by election. Hopefully hes gone by the end of the month cause to use a sporting term the coach has lost the room.
So sorry to hear that. Hope it turns out better for you all.
(I’m from the US and working/hoping to hold off the right. Probably not very realistic though given the polls in the US)
“Highest taxes in 70 years”
Imagine celebrating that Labour would have lower taxes than Thatcher
“We tried that more times than not and it’s failed”
We were this close to trying that back in the 90s. We had a Labour leader who had the union bosses under control in a way that benefitted everybody, we had a Tory party that were in ruins and guaranteed to lose the next election.
Then John Smith died.
Then Tony Blair took over and suddenly we had a Thatcherite running the Labour government and worst sort of people chalked it up to a win for electability when it was actually a win for destroying a good man’s legacy while the corpse was still fresh.
We still need to vote Labour where we need to vote Labour but anywhere that you can vote for somebody else without letting the tories in, do that. Then, when Labour win, we march on the capital and demand electoral reform because this is disgusting
Kier starmer made the labour party more like the tory party
David Lammy with Liz Truss politics. Ben, is this interview not frustrating?
Putin didn't need an excuse.
Lammy complaining that Labour has barely ever been in power during his lifetime (I would say they’ve never been in power during his adult life) and then deciding that the solution is to change the party to have Tory policies instead of the solution being to fix the electoral system is as damning as it gets
Blimey, I may almost feel proud to be British again in a week and a bit.
He speaks of a mandate for Starmer. Its hardly much of a mandate if there's barely anything in the manifesto. The mandate is basically the ability to say "this is all rather difficult, isn't it?"
Labour has one job, to back the unions. If you’re celebrating Labour moving to the centre then you are celebrating a fully broken political system that cares not at all about securing mandates on policies and only on securing power for power’s sake
Good luck to David, Labour Party and the UK!!!
Great episode !
Assange & Manning delivered. Watch and learn
Meh. Keir is a legit zionist. Totally side eye that dude.
"Legit Zionist", meaning....?
Growth and stability 😂. "Fiscal responsibility" and not taxing the rich. Good luck...
Pakistan is fortunate to have many brave beloved Journalists. Many of them get paid pittance and risk their lives and their families freedom should they speak out of turn.
Some of Pakistans beloved journalists are Imran Riaz Khan and Ashrad Sharif. Imran was illegally detained and torchered for months. When he was released he looked like he had aged 20+ years and the torcher has left him with the inability to speak properly. Ashrad Sharif was hunted, torchered and Murderd in Kenya. His murder to this day has not been investigated properly. Their crimes? Speaking out against the corrupt Military and Pakistani security powers.
Its interesting to note how a recent high profile case, also highlighted what can happen to journalists when not protected. If you care about Journalists in struggling developing counteries to have safety, the ability to work without fear of torcher, murder, threat or retaliation. Then all Journalists around the world should all have the safety and freedom to do what they do.
Nothing happens in a vacume. I really hope corrupt entities like Pakistans Generals do not take comfort in knowing that charging, prosecuting detaining, torchering journalists in custody, will have no consequences for them. A very dangerous precident for all journalists around the world. And those that believe in liberal democracy, and keeping folks in power accountable and transparent to its people. A free and robust media is crucial for that.
I for one am thrilled not to have a champagne socialist in charge of the Labour party. My political ideology may swing further to the left of Starmer, but he's someone who actually wants to govern the country and not let it continue to picked for scraps by big business. I'm ready for this conservative nightmare to be over and tired of purity fights in opposition.
Starmer is in hock to big business and special interests, that's why they shifted support from the Tories to kid starver
Lamie sell out. No thanks
Labour has to win & get rid of Tories, but Starmer kicked out Corbyn & has welcomed Tory defectors with open arms.
I'm sickened about voting for Biden. I will do it and then change my party to Independent. I'm 62 yo well informed white woman btw.
Why vote for Biden?
You're sickened about voting for a President whose done so much? 😂 Oh, yes the Gaza thing. Maybe you should look into how those weapon shipments have been going since this seems to be your issue. And imagine being sickened by a good man. Vote for Trump and see what you get.
@@edelgyn2699because he's been a fantastic President. Because some of us in the US are tired of those of us here whose only priority has been about what's going on in a foreign country, rather then our democracy here.
@virginiaforshee3638 I feel the same way-
I don't understand. When Biden came into office, thousands of people were dying from covid every day. There's no recession, just a slowdown despite the world collapse. He is investing in America. They are bringing computer chip factories back to America ! ! ! Investment in infrastructure and green energy, Europe backing Ukraine is largely the result of Biden's diplomacy. So he's too soft on Bibi. Even Isrealis can't get rid of Bibi! There are no viable third party candidates, or third parties for that matter. Elect progressives for your local city, but vote blue until the next generation comes in.
First! ❤
I totally disagree with the comments on the Farage interview. I disagree with him on almost everything, but a broken clock it right twice a day and NATO has been extremely expansionist towards Russia. The invasion and Putin are both horrible and moral wrong, but the invasion did not happen in a vacuum
NATO does not threaten Russia, as long as Russia has nuclear weapons. It has been clear since the first Chechnyan war that Russia was not trustworthy. So it is no wonder if former Soviet states wants to join Nato. The only way Nato is a threat to Russia is that it blocks Russian military expansion plans. Nato isn't a good organization however, so you would be right in criticising nato. But the expansion talk is just Russian propaganda.
Do you believe that any nation that borders Russia should be banned from choosing to join alliances that Russia does not approve of?
What other nations do you believe are entitled to this power over their geographical neighbours?
Perhaps China gets to decide what alliances Vietnam joins? Or Brazil can pick and choose the organisations to which Paraguay belongs?
Ukraine is a sovereign state. It can pick and choose which international organisations it belongs to, and shouldn't have to fear invasion if it looks too long in the direction of someone its neighbour disapproves of. (To say nothing of the fact that it HADN'T joined NATO when it got invaded, so this was a pre-emptive strike against a third party)
And this isn't some blanket "NATO is great!" statement either. I have no strong feelings towards NATO in and of itself. This is about a sovereign nation's right to determine its own path and future in the world. Russia is not entitled to control its neighbours national policy, any more than Mexico should have a right to decide what organisations the USA belongs to, or France to determine what alliances Britain can join.
This is deeply incorrect and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of history and NATO. It's a direct Russian talking point that has no basis in fact. I would seriously do some research on this topic.
@@SliceOfDog I do not believe that Russia (or any nation) should dictate what others do as far as joining multinational organizations. I never claimed that in my comment. I agree that any sovereign nation has the right to determine their own path.
All I was commenting on is that, from the perspective of Russia and Putin, NATO has been expansionist. Now I don’t think that any of this justifies the Russian invasion whatsoever.
Again, if Ukraine or Georgia or whoever else would like to join NATO or any other organization that is great and I support it.
Imagine a Labour Party that is only in power for one in four elections thinking that we shouldn’t change the electoral system. Talk about voting for Christmas