Aspen Baker: A better way to talk about abortion
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Abortion is extremely common. In America, for example, one in three women will have an abortion in their lifetime, yet the strong emotions sparked by the topic - and the highly politicized rhetoric around it - leave little room for thoughtful, open debate. In this personal, thoughtful talk, Aspen Baker makes the case for being neither “pro-life” nor “pro-choice” but rather "pro-voice" - and for the roles that listening and storytelling can play when it comes to discussing difficult topics.
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Facts are more important than feelings. As a child I felt like there were monsters under my bed. I could have started a support group where children could just talk and empathize with each others’ feelings. But instead I looked under my bed and determined the facts of the situation first. There were no monsters under my bed. Facts matter in the abortion discussion and feelings can change when a person knows the facts - just like my feelings of anxiety changed to a sense of calmness after I looked under my bed. As nice as it sounds, this popular idea of just affirming everyone’s’ feelings is actually, in the long run, destructive and harmful.
If it could be shown that most people connect first with the emotions of a story and then with the facts, would this change your mind that affirming feelings is harmful and destructive?
@@questioneveryclaim1159 I think most people connect with the feelings of a story and often don’t bother confirming the facts. Telling people emotion laden stories is manipulation and propaganda when the facts are secondary.
I interpreted the program as a means to listen, not necessarily affirm or agree with. Like she said about the non-Christian listening to Christian women. Sometimes, people just need to share how they feel, no matter how irrational or separate from the facts, without being judged. People become irrational because they are afraid, and sometimes fear is not so easily dismissed by simply 'looking under the bed' or looking at facts. A lot of times, fear can be released when we don't feel like we have to hide it or change it, we can just simply open up about it. Then it's like removing a big weight which leaves us with more of a capacity to think clearly and critically about things.
I think both of you are correct. Facts are crucial but they don’t necessarily alleviate the feelings & the feelings can be very valid. The thing causing the anxiety can be a very rational concern not just based on imaginary creatures out to get us. We should empathize w/the feelings but can definitely disagree w/how to proceed. The action taken can actually cause more damage & the underling causes of the fear never resolved.
Yo can always get pregnant again but u can never take it back once it’s too late
Everyone is indeed talking about the wrong thing. We should be discussing how to prevent unplanned pregnancies.
AGREED
Some women who want the child have to get abortions to save their own lives. Are you just going to not talk about that?
Absolutely!
@@earnthis1 - That is more difficult to prevent beforehand. And she didn't claim to be against abortions.
Yeah, this is why I don’t get why the pro life movement isn’t for better methods of contraception
"Empathy is created the moment we imagine ourselves in someone else's shoes. It doesn't mean we all have to end up in the same place." Loved when she made this important distinction
True, some end up in a dumpster.
The Yellow Tub LOL so true. Greatest response to idealistic nihilism I've ever read.
This is actually a really weak argument made by her. You can feel empathy towards someone however still understand that their choice is an immoral one. Empathy isn't the sole voice on if something is moral or immoral. That's the whole premise of a vigilante. Yes we can sympathize with them. No it is not moral to become judge, jury, and executioner, just because something traumatic happened to you.
Tyler No +1 check out Paul Bloom’s Against Empathy
Tyler, moral behavior is that which is deliberate and has a positive effect on the well-being of another sentient being. In regards to abortion; a first trimester abortion is not a moral consideration since no one yet exists to harm. Keep in mind that an organism must be sentient to possess any moral consideration. Even second and third trimester abortions are not within cultural moral concerns since the organism resides within the body of a sentient host entity. The host entity must retain bodily autonomy rights, always.
People on reddit attacked and harassed me calling me worthless, evil, vile, told me I wanted people to suffer and that they hope I get what I “deserve”. Why? Because I asked someone if they were pro-life “as well”.
I am prolife too. Dont let them shame you.
That's really sad! I'm very much pro-choice but everyone has a right to have their own personal opinion (as long as it doesn't affect someone's life) And they shouldn't have disrespected you like that!❤
Abortion is a very complex issue that needs perspective from all sides. Hopefully this event does not discourage you from joining in on the conversation
Nothing makes a baby killer gnash their teeth harder than when confronted with another person who thinks it's a bad idea to kill babies.
People are very angry, and rightly so. Because taking bodily autonomy away is a slippery slope. Judge Thomas says he is moving on to the right to birth control and gay rights. Religious people may rejoice until we turn into the middle east and our right to vote, drive and just existing starts to get stripped. Nothing else can describe this but pure evil
This talk is really more about being a good listener than it is about abortion.
***** very well said.
***** Yeah. There really wasn't anything about actual abortion or the discussion of it. Quite disappointing.
***** I call Bullshit, if that were the case it would have been titled as such, the title if you had not noticed was, "A better way to talk about abortion".
***** Tell me, what did you expect when clicking on the video?
Based on what TED used to be, it hinted that his would be a talk which doesn't focus on the beaten horse of whether abortion is murder or not, but elevates the discussion to the next level. With stats, graphs, deep philosophical questions and stories about how various legal measures by various countries lead to different outcomes.
My disappointment, and I didn't even feel like voting this down, really, is that this talk could have just as easily been about any traumatic experience any person could have to deal with. It could've been a suicide helpline, it could've been about school bullying, it could've been about listening to people who have lost a loved one. It's just very misleading.
***** I'm not sure we should judge the speaker for that. TED has a long history of mangling the names of presentations. This very well could have had a logical name, and the person who posted the video might have messed it up.
Slavery was also Common, did that make it right or moral?
That's always been leftist logic no wonder they were the ones to enforce slavery and Jim crow laws
Slavery was not common... Only a small portion of people owned slaves. Calm down, there are better arguments against Abortion.
Slavery violates a person’s right to bodily autonomy and agency, much like forced pregnancy
Forced pregnancy would be rape. That's a tiny percentage of pregnancies. Being expected to provide the basic needs to your child, (which was created and made dependent by your own choices) which is what pregnancy does, is not "slavery." Legally declaring that another human is a "non-person," so you can abuse, exploit or kill them for your own convenience or profit? That's slavery. It's also the ideology of abortion.
ydely Suarez nope
Sounds like RELATIVISM. Just because something is common doesn’t make it right.
Exactly!! some years ago it was common between american rich business man's to own slaves.... so it was a good thing?
Relativism is killing common sense these days!
Maria Baysa,
Before you critcise any of the speakers chosen to give talks on TedEx, TED, or any of the other intellectual and scientific think tanks, look up the speaker's credentials. Most of these speakers are highly educated, experienced, and intelligent people who bring unique perspectives to our world. To flippantly dismiss a speaker as obviously intellectual, intelligent, and educated as Aspen Baker simply out of personal disagreement is to do one's self a disservice.
What Aspen Baker suggests is not relativism. Aspen Baker suggests in this talk that people can get together to discuss abortion and other very complex moral topics without going to war with each other. What is happening over abortion, gun control, and other complex issues is nothing short of the beginnings of a civil war. Democrats want to ban guns. Republicans want to ban abortion. Each side is convinced that they are right in their desire for a 100% ban of the other side's rights. In the end, we will end up with a series of ever tighter bans on our inalienable rights with large numbers of people initially satisfied with their pet bans. After a while, we will discover that it is much easier to pass bans than it is to remove bans. At that point we will realize that we have given up many of our basic rights to infringement by pressure groups which never had a right to pass the bans to begin with. Think carefully before you agree to sell out the rights of others because others will also feel free to sell out those rights which you hold precious.
@@AMERICANPATRIOT1945 discussions without a common moral standard are useless.
the major problem is the difference between the moral standards... a side believes that every human life has value (starting from the conception) the other side say that a life doesn't have value... because it's not wanted.
@@racer2heaven ,
How sure are you that this is the case with Aspen Baker, or for that matter any other woman who believes in the sanctity of her body? Are you aware that a lot of the people who are pro-choice, especially women, take such a stance not because they don't value life, but because they see that about 80% of the anti-choice side comes from religion. Those people correctly see a mostly white male religious leadership with the arrogant nerve to believe that they alone have the right to set moral standards for women of all races, colors, and nationalities in regards to the reproductive plumbing of those women. Those women don't want their reproductive rights to be decided by men.
Aspen Baker and others like her correctly see that there is a large middle ground where abortion is not an absolute right. One does not just have the right to kill a viable fetus two days before birth. On the other hand, one does not have the right to force a woman to bring a 1 day zygote through all 9 months of pregnancy. The transition from zygote to baby occurs over nine months and is a gradual change. At a certain point, the fetus becomes viable and attains the right through actual or implied consent to inhabit the mother's womb and to continue to draw its sustenance from the mother until birth. Scientists have determined that this point is reached at the point at which the fetus becomes viable, conscious, sentient, and capable of feeling pain. These conditions are met at around 28 weeks of gestation. Secular legal scholars set the bar for viability and implied consent at around 24 weeks just to give the benefit of the doubt to the fetus and to err on the side of saving life.
Religious groups don't feel this way because they are taught by religious leaders and not scientists. Those who feel that a woman should be allowed to kill an 8.8 month fetus are also immoral to say the least, and they are exceedingly rare. Even so called laws in some states which say that a woman can kill an 8.8 month fetus are not in fact stating that at all. Such laws are merely stating that a woman cannot be compelled to kill herself to deliver a baby and that the mother comes first. That is in fact morally correct. No healthcare provider will kill a baby which is about to be delivered unless absolutely necessary to save the mother. If the mother's life is in danger, labor will be induced and the baby will be delivered a little early and saved if at all possible.
This is the type of dialogue which Aspen Baker refers to in her lecture on TED. It is absolutely possible for two sides of a debate to reach common ground on even the toughest moral issues. That is called democracy. Religious and political extremists should learn to understand this or at least acknowledge that their beliefs as pushed by the leaders of their movements are not absolute and can in fact be compromised to balance rights against rights. That is what separates our great US republic from lesser forms of government.
@@AMERICANPATRIOT1945 If people's credentials were the basis of right and wrong, thief and murder would be legal by now.
A society that refuses to recognize one absolute TRUTH will never work, no matter how nicely or calmly we try to discuss issues. (sidenote: have you ever noticed that aggression only comes from one side? have you watched BOTH pro-life and pro-choice rallies?)
Absolute Truth exists and we are all accountable to it. Murder is wrong and will never ever be justified - no matter what circumstance one faces. It will always be wrong. Truth will remain TRUE even if people stops believing it to be true.
I agree, we have to "think carefully before you agree to sell out the rights of others because others will also feel free to sell out those rights which you hold precious." And what right could be more precious than the RIGHT TO LIFE?
Pretty sad that this video is getting so many dislikes. Lame.
Why is it sad? Why is it lame?
Rick Wolford This video should not exist in the first place.
TheSpaceTiger
This is why we can't have nice things.
And I'm not advocating for censorship, unlike you people, I'm just saying that it is stupid and pointless, which it is.
***** I'm sure nazi's said that as they burned all books they deemed pointless or harmful
TheSpaceTiger
Ok there Godwin, nice try.
this video is about talking to each other and listening. not about abortion.
Its a misleading title, and despite denying it is pro choice, ends up being pro choice.
You missed the point. It's not about choosing or not. It's about advancing the dialogue.
Screaming 'baby murderer!' changes no one and nothing.
The point of the gentleman above is that the lady does not remove her pro-choice bias from the monologue, but she frames the monologue within the confines of the pro-choice fundamentals; yes, she is civilized, she encourages people to have a dialogue (which is a positive step) but it is disingenuous to come and claim you are pro-voice when you still assert the moral subjectivity of the decision to keep a baby or abort it. Just be upfront and say that I am pro-choice and I want to have a dialogue with pro-lifers so that we can find as much common-ground as possible
@@NihilSineDeo09 if you watch the vid, that was the point.
If everyone is screaming and emotional, no dialogue happens.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 -How long does it take for dialogue to happen?
The science has been out for decades that a human being is it's own complete person at conception. Many people have calmly brought this to the attention of the world.
The problem is the far left idealogies that prefer feelings over facts. They want to live in a fantasy world instead of this reality.
you mean pro dead babies of course.
"Safe, Legal, and RARE"???
I'm inclined to think that a service would become even rarer if that service was dangerous and illegal.
Remember fully informed decision? Lol, I guess too much real information made that untenable.
Why should it be rare if they believe that the baby is not a human being...
@@mikebalderston2723 - You'd think so, but for various reasons a lot of women and YOUNG GIRLS are seeking abortion for desperate reasons.
Merete Mitfuldenavn Sorry, but that’s not true😂 You can look up the statistics and almost every abortion is just out of inconvenience. It’s actually fairly rare that abortions are for desperate reasons
Even though I'm not sure if I would have an abortion, Im pro-choice. I've met a few women who had an abortion for various reasons including their life being in danger or the baby being unable to survive outside of the womb. Abortion is not an easy decision and it's so frustrating that many (not all) anti-choice people think people are only using abortion as a form of birth control.
That is not even a key argument against abortion
Sacrificing the life of the baby for the sake of the mother's is still pro-life because you are saving the life of the mom. All other situations are not. Just wanted to make this clarification.
Yep. That's how rights work. When you give rights, you give people the right to make choices that you don't like.
Same as freedom of speech.
You have the right attitude. Take it seriously. Make the best choice for your situation.
And don't tell everyone else what they are, or are not allowed to do with their bodies.
@swimgirl24 Girl I am with you. I am pro choice
Rights in our society are not without limits, except probably the right to think and have an opinion.
Your right to do whatever you want with your body stops the moment when you are hurting someone. For instance, I have the right to swing my arms in the air like a madman who yells there is no dog...no problems here. But if during my arm-swinging I land a punch on you just because you happened to be in my space, that's a problem and I should be held liable. Similarly, I have nothing against adult women doing anything to their own bodies (tattoos, mutilation, hormone treatment, etc) as long as they do not harm/kill a human being, regardless of where that human is on the life continuum.
With open conversation can come truth. I hope that more people speak civilly and respectfully about differences and difficult topics, if nothing else. We are still human beings. I am glad this organization exists for this reason.
I wish to understand why the majority of the thumbs on this video are down. While she did mention "oppression" it wasn't the main theme of the video. While she mentioned abortion it wasn't the main theme of the video (though I think many people just got on to downvote without watching; it seems likely).
It was about listening to (and telling of) other stories on politicized issues, It wasn't about shutting up and listening, as feminists want people to do.
It seemed somewhat clear to me that this person wasn't intending to push any ideology, but to say "politics is a horrible, innately censoring, machine that divides people on a fundamental level" (ok, that could be an ideology, but still). But, then again, it could just be confirmation bias, and me truly wishing to see the best in people...which is why I am asking why it's not liked. What did I blind myself to?
SangoProductions21 I'm guessing most thumbs down are from people who just considered this talk babble. Garbage like this is usually reserved for TEDx but TEDwomen seems to have the same level of competence. This talk is not what most people subscribe to this channel for, it's mostly complaining and the entire message of the video can be summed up with "I want more people to talk about things that I want them to talk about". The delivery is poor, it's all over the place with topics and the reason I didn't thumb it down is because it's just bad and at least not outright lying like some other feminist presentations tend to be.
SangoProductions21 I believe from my understanding of what she was talking about, which was very vague was relativity. She is advocating relativity and relativity's main purpose it to break boundaries and bias into a gray confusion. She wan't us to be more accepting for people and their choices and situations on a moral level. But morals of what is right or wrong is what makes us human. Pro-voice shouldn't create respect for all (contrary to her ending), maybe support. I advocate that we should indeed be finding new lines to create and greater understanding of what is good. Disagreement, Hate, Disrespect, Dishonor, Shame, Regret are not negative parts of society that need to be treated. They are beneficial parts of society that help the human race to grow in a hostile environment of ideologies.
shadowx089 Not being willing to include and manage complexity is willful ignorance.
Aaron565pwns you didn't even read my comment, let alone watch the video.
Not sure why you commented.
@the others, thanks for the comments. I think I have a better picture of why people downvoted, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.
Basically, i think most of them were triggered by abortion, and the second they discovered she was not pro-forced-birth.
And literally, they could not think past that.
You could have replaced the word abortion with any other word, and the conversation would have been the same. She was awesome! Abortion is sad though, always will be.
Do you mean replacing it with killing?
@@jrdelamancha9360 That is a good question.
And wrong. Will always be wrong.
Sorry lady, killing babies is horrible.
Farty DeBlank nah
Forcing a women to look after a child if horrible. U are refusing to give women the right over their own reproduction systems I'm sorry but it's not right. On many countries having an abortion is the only was that a women wouldn't be kicked out of their house or abused for having a child
It can ruin a young women's life
Of course women should be careful and take care of their own bodies and reduce the chances of being in a situation where they have a unwanted child. However there are loads of situations that can be found like rape and forcing a women to have the child which they can't look after (remember that people have abortion because either they can't look after the child or they are too young) It can cause the child to have a terrible life they may not even survive if for example the mother's parents disown her and she gets forced to fend for herself. It happened often and we can't take away someone's right to a life. I'm going to say it now that I'm a young woman (Age is classified) and if I was too find out that I'm pregnant it would ruin my life and I would be devastated. I would follow the abortion rules for example I think it's above 5 weeks u cannot abort but I'm afraid I think abortion would be my only option. To understand there point of view u must imagine a situation where I wouldn't and couldn't keep the child. It is a very difficult decision but I'm sure that alot of women will be able to make that choice and I want that choice to be available.
I support women's right to speak and be heard,
no matter what side,
an as much as possible, they should receive the support they need
to make a decision based on reason and on love
rather than fear of other people's anger.
Well that's the first time I got called a "cucksimp". Normally it's "lying, cheating playboy fuckhead". Care to expand on that?
+Perturbed Connoisseur I think... I don't have any imaginary friends, so... that would make them... part of your imagination and... if they're too loud... I'm not the one who's hearing them.
I'm sorry. I'd defend my self or apologise. In your case, I can't even work out what your point is at all.
I don't know if you're pro-choice, pro-life or replying to someone else's post on a whole other board.
"make decision based on reason and on love"...not much medical reasoning involved in an abortion, and definitely there is no love for the aborted baby
I'm on the baby side
Well, killing someone outside of the womb is illegal, ruthlessly slaughtering someone inside of a wombs should also be illegal.
Mental note: NEVER read the RUclips comments.
The two sides are vastly different; you can't just say any side is just as good as the other
The problem is, one side is killing people.
@@poliincredible770 exactly.
@@poliincredible770 Yes, forcing women to have babies and die during childbirth is killing women. Why do you support killing women?
Joseph Davidson there are also many women who die during uborshuns. Let’s save their lives and their babies.
@@earnthis1 Those cases are rare, and most pro-lifers would favour the mothers life in that case.
You are free to choose but you aren’t free from the consequences of your choice.
💯
Politicians (both males and females) in general should have no say with what a woman does with her own body. I also believe we should educate more women on this topic to prevent political nightmares and disagreements like this from getting worse in the future.
Except it's not about what a woman does with her body....it's what she's doing to someone else's body...
@@neilsimpson3359 we are not talking about the fetus, we are talking about the women's organs that are being used (and therefore her body). watch the video. abortion is something that is different for everyone.
That baby would probably really like not being violently slaughtered tho
@@sammyrae8591 i think you need to study science. Thats the female body works. The way you speak as if a fetus is a parasite to the mother😢
I personally feel that if a woman is seeking an abortion she should be told ALL of her options, not just the abortion option, but adoption and keeping the baby. To be a truly fully informed choice, I also feel she should at least be shown the ultrasound &/or the heartbeat at least once. No, Im not saying it should be forced on them but encouraged to do so. To abort without having all the facts is not a good way to go in my opinion. I think it just leads to more women having regret...especially after reading so many stories about women saying "If I had only known...that there was a real person in there..." and so forth. Im just saying...be fully informed before making a decision. :)
Absolutely.
But not coerced or pressured.
Is that why the liberals object to mandatory 24-hour wait periods and ultrasounds?
@@NihilSineDeo09 IT's not a liberal or conservative issue.
And by implying that it is, you paint yourself quite visibly.
Those who are against it, are so, because we know what it is: More pressure to convince the woman, not to have an abortion.
And it's bullshit, because most women who go in, have put considerable thought into it, for hours or days. Thanks to y'all, this minor medial issue is considered a big deal.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 I am personally in favour of socialization. I think that would solve this issue. If we can take the fertilized egg and simply impregnate another women who voluntarily agrees to carry out the birth via a social network, then abortions become obsolete. My position is probably just as horrifying to people. I think in a perfect world we would have artificial wombs.
@@antifascistafox7795 We already have a similar capability now.
All we have to do, is when a woman wants an abortion, we take a stem cell sample of the fetus, and store it.
Then, when she wants a baby later on, she can have THAT baby again.
this tech exists now. And will only get cheaper and more accessible over time.
And if that woman never gets into a place where she can raise a family, those potential fetuses can be donated to sterile couples.
That should keep the anti-choicers happy. That potential baby gets to live, later.
After all, they are forever ranting on about 'unique DNA' all the time.
Well this preserves it.
That should test their ideology.
"Women this, women that, women evertyhing" -TED
Omg exactly lol
Pirispanen And, is that a problem?
TheSpaceTiger Not if you're the average Buzzfeed reader or a vocal feminist. See TED shouldn't be pushing any agenda, merely tell us wide variety of stories, ideas and discoveries. In the past 1-1½ months there has been over 5 talks just about women's "issues", in which some of them aren't even real or relevant. As if women are the big victims in the western society.
Pirispanen This particular one is not just about women.
Pirispanen TED can push any agenda it deems will help the human race.
Women/girls and men/boys and transgender people have gender specific issues. I started watching TED about 3 years ago and I have yet to see someone taking about men/boy issues, though I have seen plenty talking about women's/girl's issues and few about transgender issues. Did I miss some videos? If not can we contact someone and ask them to increase the diversity on TED of gender issues.
Overonator Not sure if this is relevant, but the entire audience was women.
ScruffyTheJ uhhh are you sure about that...?
Hunter Johnson
Well like 90% at least. 3:50
Not sure if this is confirmation bias, but I'm believe you're right.
Check out Adam Garone, founder of Movember.
OpiatedBliss Do you have any more details about that TED talk? I want to find it.
Pro-voice: A better way to talk about any subject.
As long as you aren't the sheep, in a three way conversation, with two wolves..
@@harpjason208 Pro Life is a Give Birth or Die movement.
Its PRO LIFE not PRO DEATH...
Abortion is murder.
Slavery was common.
Smoking was common.
Logical fallacies galore.
I don't think smoking is comparable to slavery or murder
Slavery was not at all common, quite rare actually in the United states at its peak. Smoking is not necessarily bad, just unhealthy. Abortion ain't murder. Far from it actually.
K B wow not only do you need a history class you need a basic biology class
@@laurenelizabeth1644
How come. Do explain my fallacies
Abortion is justified homicide. No one, even the mentally unfit (innocent by lack of mental ability) have a right to harm others (cause blood loss, pain, trauma) to others against their will. A fetus does not get a to hurt women's vaginas and bodies without the continuous consent of women. Being pregnant is not a criminal act for which you can deny women their equal rights not to bleed and suffer wounds in favor of the fetus, with no due process, and no just compensation. Where is the draft? Abortion is justified homicide.
I wish she had talked more about abortion instead of going general with the pro-voice stuff .
Anyway, nice talk! :)
“I loved this video. I used to not really know where I stood pro-choice or pro-life. I knew personally I could never have one, I would feel too guilty being that I am such an emotional person. However, as I got older I started to lean very much so more towards pro-life. However, I love the program this woman started. The Exhale program is such an amazing idea for women and men all over. I know if I were to have an abortion (like I said before) I would feel so guilty and emotional throughout that time. Knowing there’s people like her and her program for men and women out there who may be struggling with the choice or with the choice they already made is amazing.”
Honestly abortion when the mother's life isn't in danger is so wrong. I would even go as far as to say it's murder.
The most important thing I got out of this talk was how important it is to approach talking about abortion with empathy and respect. Abortion is such a sensitive topic that it can be difficult to talk about in a constructive way. People have a variety of beliefs and experiences that shape their views on the topic, and it is important to recognize and acknowledge these differences. I thoroughly enjoyed how Aspen talked about how the language we use can either make it easier or more difficult to discuss the topic depending on how much practice we have saying uncomfortable words. I’d also like to mention how it is important to avoid using language that is dismissive or judgmental of those who hold different views, as this can cause further division and hinder productive conversation.
It can be easy to focus on the act of an abortion and the morality tied to it, but conversations around abortion are more productive when they focus on vital background information. The reasons why people seek abortions, and the health outcomes of different abortion procedures can help to provide a more nuanced understanding of the issue. Starting from neutral ground and with the goal of coming to an understanding with others starts by being open to learning from others and acknowledging the validity of their experiences and beliefs, even if they differ from your own.
The ethical principles of beneficence, non-maleficence, and autonomy are very closely related to the topic of abortion. No matter what we feel about the morality of abortions, we have to remember that both patients and doctors have the right to autonomy. If a doctor doesn’t want to perform an abortion, that is their right. However, I feel that beneficence, non-maleficence, and respect for patient autonomy would require that even if a physician refuses to offer an abortion as part of their healthcare services, they should be willing to refer their patients to other physicians who would be willing to help them.
This talk is unfortunately a bit snide, and aims at bringing a form of superficial peace or healing to an issue that requires genuine and deep touches of lasting help. For this reason it is also extremely arrogant as it claims to purport worth while endeavors when in fact it offers no real solutions or wisdom on the subject of abortion at all. This woman is disliked by many precisely because she lives in denial and confusion over her own past and life issues but has tried to project herself as a 'help' and source of genuine purpose. She has not come to terms with herself and her own issues with abortion, but wants to excuse her own weakness or double-mindedness by taking the attention away from objective reality and instead place it in a 'make believe' reality where she serves some purpose in her own 'make believe' world.
This is unfortunately a common theme in Western countries, particularly America which is nominally Christian. Women like this one are born into and raised in an environment where they believe they are Christian, a cut above the rest and with the key of eternal life; not realizing that on a subjective and personal level, in most cases, nothing could be further from the truth. Then their 'world view' sense of self-worth, morality and everything they believe is personally tested when they are faced with the choice to have something like an abortion. From that day on they live in denial, never willing to forsake the false narratives of their moral upbringing which has given them so much fake righteousness and moral superiority, and yet, on the other hand, never wanting to own up to the decision they made to have an abortion which devalues them according to their sense of morality. People like this woman NEVER bring any help to the issues they address because they ignore the root problems and are living in denial having not sorted out or owned their own life choices.
And in case you are inclined to disagree with me, think about this woman's logic and methodology or approach in relation to other 'hot topics' such as racism, split families, economic inequality and the suppression of the poor by the rich through dishonest financial practices, etc. Or take an issue that is both personal and important to you. The conclusion is simple: Ignoring the real and root issues to any subject NEVER helps in the long run. And btw, further above where it seemed I may have been bashing Christianity, please understand dear Christians that I was not. I was merely bashing the superficial and counterfeit forms of 'Christianity' which is based in traditions, structures and rules, which has usurped what could be genuine. When an issue in someones life is causing guilt, like it clearly is with this woman, then it must be addressed no matter how painful. What this woman is doing is trying to create an environment where this guilt can be hid from and never faced. It is a coward's approach. A cowardice brought on by self-righteousness, which doesn't bring any lasting healing or closure or intrinsic power to bear on the situation.
I wish your reply was required reading in school - that's how eloquent and thorough it is.Wisdom is standing in the middle of the road, but most people pass by it and they keep their course.
This is the truest thing I've seen all day.
Yes!!!
I'm sorry, have you ever had an abortion? Are you a woman? I can concretely say that her points are very valid. I can also say, with complete certainty, that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to this matter. What is her weakness? What do you think she needs to come to terms with?
@@kaitlincarlberg4283 what points? This woman made no comments about the morality of abortion other than it is okay because it is common. Explain to me the validity of that argument since you are female and somehow that overrides the opinions of other people solely because of gender. On top of that, I don't think you realize that specifically the lack of taking sides on the speaker's part is what prompted mike's response, and is precisely why he made the completely sound point that the speaker is in denial of her own actions. You're just another pawn in the abortion activist political movement, making the same old, flawed points over and over again like "Are you a woman? If not, my opinion is worth more than yours" or "You have never had an abortion so you have no room to judge!" Which are both inherently flawed fallacies, and both completely irrelevant to the points brought up prior. Here's a good rule of thumb: Actually understand the argument you are responding to before you attempt to refute it.
The one-in-three figure is not accurate, it's more like 28 percent of women.
fouroverseven Still pretty close, but closer to 1/4 if that stat is accurate.
fouroverseven Yup, it’s more like 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 now.
This talk is essential, even though it was 7 years ago It is very relevant today with the overturn of Roe v. Wade. Those who are Pro-life may not see the bigger picture of why women choose abortion, they see it as murdering a human, not caring about the circumstance of the person that is carrying the baby. I'm currently taking a philosophy class where we are studying the arguments for abortion. We look at arguments that claim that abortion is killing humans and we find reasons or may argue what makes a human a human. Are there certain attributes that make you different from a fetus? We look and argue about the time in which you do the procedure, and whether is it permissible to wait until the fetus is developed. I say all that to say that this was a good talk especially for me while I am studying these arguments and claims. There should be a community that surrounds itself with those who feel that they don't have a voice.
A bit of an oxymoron to say that, regardless of the stance taken on any issue, 'we're on your side' is either helpful or meaningful to someone confused/in distress. It is both possible and necessary to be able to have a stance on something as important as the right to life while being an excellent listener. There's a difference between withholding your opinion for the sake of empathy and conceding to relativistic nonsense. If help is the outcome aimed at, the latter helps no one. Moreover, if nonsense is nonexistent sense, and its impossible to respect something that doesn't exist, then how could we respect nonsense? It's impossible to respect someone without respecting his/her opinion, and how could you respect his/her opinion if relativism tells you that his/her opinion doesn't matter? No one has an opinion without the possibility of a truth higher than the opinion itself.
I wonder if she wonders what that child could have become.
Shaun Parkinson It’s called adoption; hundreds of thousands of families are looking for a child to adopt.
Shaun Parkinson I never said it should be illegal. We need to focus on providing much more birth control than there already is. Not just killing half a million people and acting like there’s nothing we can do about it.
i wonder if you ever consider what happens to the baby if there brought into the world.
@@bentonschaefer Yes! We should focus on making birth control and condoms more available. And we should help prevent unwanted pregnancies
I've never understood pro life's obsession with nonexistent people. If you mourn all the babies who are aborted, do you also mourn those who are miscarried? Do you mourn all the zygotes who weren't able to attach to the uterus? Do you mourn the millions of other potential people who could've been created in each ejaculation?
I don't care if the baby is six months or 10 months. killing a baby is murder.
Sara L 10 months?
No one cares what you think. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
I don't think that's the area of discussion here though. What she's saying is that, whether it is moral or not, people get abortions. And when they do, they need real support. I don't know what you believe, but if you think of someone like Jesus, he hung out with the people who had already done their awful deeds, and restored them to wholeness. We need a society more like that. What do you think?
Sara L "BABY"? So when you have a child he is actually born 9 months old already? At the stage of an abortion it is not yet even a fully formed foetus
Unknown024 quotes are also like assholes :D
There needs to be explicitly documented stories cataloged of aaaalll the disposed/abandoned/unwanted birthed babies that a lot of elderly women admitted to in their later years. That removing abortion has never stopped the reality of women's lives.
It's great how much emphaty there is for woman but we're is the emphaty for the baby?
So you want to force women to have a baby? No matter the circumstances? What is your power trip?
@@earnthis1 If her life is at risk, it's her choice to abort. Otherwise no abortions in any other case are justified, it's murder.
@@earnthis1 so you just take away the future of a potential human being bcoz of inconvenience of the mother or father or doesn't want to take the responsibility of their own action?
@@earnthis1 what is your power trip, that you think any person has the right to take an innocent life?
There never was a baby,it was a fetus/zygote
This was really good. People should have these discussions. I think it would help us all politically. I am pro life but I have reservations recently. I just feel different and I don’t know why.
I used to be pro choice all my life until i became pro life a few years ago, after taking a deep dive into the issue and started researching and listening to all available viewpoints and arguments from all sides.
Im curious as to why you are pro life and what reservations you are starting to have?
@@edres7563 same here, always been pro choice but very recently I struggle to stand by that. I'm starting to lean toward pro life but I don't want to be "that guy"... You know what I mean.
@@Bugbuns I understand what you mean. Its not easy having the courage of your convictions, in a society that is so heavily indoctrinated with pro abortion lies, propaganda and illogical and emotional lack of reason.
They have succeeded in making most people forget about the basic facts of human biolgy and devlopment, and emotionally manipluating the rest, not to mention created millions of walking wounded psychologically damaged post abortive women and men, who are in bitter denial with their own conscience, that they will fight with a violent vehemence for the right to kill, that will make any sensible shudder with horror, once their cognitive dissonance has lifted.
So its hard to stand up in the face of such madness and such blatant pro abortion lies and manipulative proaganda that stikes at the emotional core of most people. Its a billion dollar industry with a fiendishly cunniing sophistry to legitimize the killing of human children, that would make any mass murderer stunned with disbelief.
@@edres7563 I appreciate the response. I'm still very much struggling with both sides of the debate but I can firmly conclude that contraceptives need to be talked about more. Whether you are pro life or pro choice you must agree that we live in a world where abortions don't ever really have to take place because there are so many options for birth control.
I used to be pro life until I feared becoming pregnant myself. I would never want to have the choice taken away from me.
Being prochoice means that you are pro self defense. I want to have the right to decide that possible sepsis and death is not a risk I want to take and I want to defend myself against the thing that can do that harm to me.
Pregnancy is hella dangerous and those who change their mind about taking the risk to go all the way through with it should have the option to get out of it.
I know someone who had 5 children. She told me it was the 5th pregnancy that almost killed her. One can go through multiple pregnancies and still risk their life with the next one.
_"one in three women will have an abortion in their lifetime (U.S.)"_
Wow, I had no idea it was this prevalent. I would have guess it to be an order of magnitude less common.
Still, I'm in total support of abortion (except for _very_ late term ones). Babies that their mothers don't want to have, shouldn't be had. That's compassionate and responsible in my eyes; not condemning children to grow up in difficult conditions where they develop pathologies, become a problem demographic and continue the cycle.
Super boring talk though, very little substance.
Where do you draw the line between very late abortions? Let's say you drew the line at 38 weeks. Is a baby at the age of 37 weeks and 6 days (technically before your line) less worthy to live than one who is 38 weeks?
Nope, flawed. An embryo is entirely depended on the mothers body. Pregnancy causes nausea and vomiting, heartburn, fatigue, discomfort, pain, in some cases cracked ribs, death, illness, depression, and more. It literally changes everything about the body, and it is no longer just yours. A living child is an actually human that can survive without being attached to the mother. And, if you'll notice, parents generally just get their children removed for neglect, because once you have the child, it has it's own body autonomy. Abuse is illegal, obviously because you're not allowed to legally harm others, even if they are your children.
So, basically all you are saying is this-
"I killed my baby. Now let me justify that".
kundan kumar It was a foetus, not a baby therefore no justification is required.
TheSpaceTiger you sound like you are taking sides by listening to the pro abortion crowd. Do the research and you find there is something call partial live birth abortions. Within the last couple years abortion doctors have been outed due to the babies being alive and left to die in the disposal buckets. Do they pro abortion crowd agree with it or not? They won't even discuss the point because it would influence common sense, the baby was alive.
Did you actually read the article? The bellow quote from your source makes me think you didn't or are just cold to the facts.
"Pain. Nociceptive reactions such as withdrawal reflexes can be recorded from the 19th wk"
Jordan Haines "It's not that they're afraid of hurting the baby. It's going to die either way."
so what's the problem here?
Because killing something that is/could be alive is unethical. Think of it this way: you are getting a puppy for Christmas. The puppy is in a box, and you're about to open it, but your dad then takes away the box and kills the puppy. "But its okay, you never saw the puppy therefore it couldn't be much of a problem right?" That's how you guys are rationalizing it
Mastering financial responsibility before procreating is more ethical and successful than after procreating. It could even be said that being financially unprepared to procreate and procreating regardless is irresponsible and unethical, especially in today’s first world societies.
Exactly.
Here’s an open-ended question: How can we get people to value life at all stages?
Poli Incredible artificial wombs
that's exactly what pro-choice people ask. Unless you can prove that you value life after birth, it's hard to believe you value life at all.
Probablepossible are you saying that you display your value for life by ending life???
Pro-lifers support numerous efforts to assist mothers in crisis pregnancies, adoption agencies, and impoverished families, thereby demonstrating our value for life 🥰
@@poliincredible770 - Except that most of you don't seem to care after the babies are born. And pregnancies are sometimes a threat to the mothers life.
@Merete Mitfuldenavn are you saying that you display your value for life by ending life???
Pro-lifers support numerous efforts to assist mothers in crisis pregnancies including counseling, adoption agencies, food pantries, and more, demonstrating our value for life 🥰
Being pro-voice is fine in general. Being an attentive listener is great. I do not even mind using the same language for reflection as tehe person telling the story as long as it does not give an impression that you are agreeing with them necessarily. Somethings we should not agree with even if someone is telling you about it as their own story.
But if abortion is killing an innocent human being in normal and natural circumstances like a fetus being inside a mother's uterus then it seems like the morality is clear for at least the vast majority of abortions. It is wrong. It should also be illegal in the vast majority of cases also if that is the case.
You can and should hear stories of women who had abortions but again this does not have to mean that you agree with the woman. She can be wrong. So one can leave room for stories and debate but not acceptance of everything. That is how I think that much of listening advice goes wrong. I had to learn empathy and attentive and compassionate listening as a chaplain. I did not agree with everyone I heard. I did listen and use empathy, etc. Whether one believes abortion is right or wrong I cannot see how my ideas about listening are not correct.
"killing an innocent human being in normal and natural circumstance" But that's the whole point. by saying it is a human being you are ascribing personhood to something that simply is not the case. you wouldn't call blueprints a house or an egg a chicken. even if there is a whole different set of human DNA. that does not naturally mean it is a person. And oftentimes the morality question does not necessitate that the fetus is a person to understand that a woman has autonomy of her own body. it is not killing so much as it is simply removal of a life form and preventing that life form from robbing you of your own body's natural resources. in the same manner that I cannot simply force you to donate blood to save my life or give me the right to take a kideny from you even if your kidney is the ONLY one that would save me. You have every right to say no.
In this case, the mother has every right to say no. If the fetus is a person, then that person in the womb has no right to take away resources from another human being. it has no right to survival if that survival is 100% dependent on the woman's womb. We have a right to live, but not at the expense of invading another person's body.
So the morality is clear. abortion cannot ever be considered murder or killing.
@@mattolmedo4690 "you wouldn't call blueprints a house or an egg a chicken. even if there is a whole different set of human DNA. that does not naturally mean it is a person. "
If I break open and egg and chick pops out then yes I call that a chicken. The fetus is not like a blue print. Scientifically, the fetus is alive and human. You are just saying that not all living humans should be given the normal rights as a human being. That is scary.
" it is not killing so much as it is simply removal of a life form and preventing that life form from robbing you of your own body's natural resources n the same manner that I cannot simply force you to donate blood to save my life or give me the right to take a kideny from you even if your kidney is the ONLY one that would save me. You have every right to say no."
The problem is the life form is human and you are doing something to another human body. Thus, only if you give no rights to that living human can you say that you can do what you want to his/her body. It is not just the woman's body and that is why that argument does not work. the kidney argument does not work either since this is a natural process. Giving a kidney to someone else is a completely different situation. That is not a natural or normal thing to do. It is normal for a baby to grow inside its mother. Also there is no other choice. We cannot take the fetus out right now so we cannot stop it besides killing the baby. Thus you have to judge what right is more important. The right to life or the right to one's body. We have many cases and laws that show that the right to life trumps any supposed right to the right to your own body. Except Roe vs. Wade which makes no sense. The government says all the time what I have to do or what I cannot do with our bodies. But again the fetus is alive and human. We even say it is much worse or even double murder if a pregnant woman is killed.
"n this case, the mother has every right to say no. If the fetus is a person, then that person in the womb has no right to take away resources from another human being. it has no right to survival if that survival is 100% dependent on the woman's womb. We have a right to live, but not at the expense of invading another person's body. So the morality is clear. abortion cannot ever be considered murder or killing.".
That makes no sense. If you have a baby you must either take care of the baby or find someone to take care of him. If you just leave it alone and she dies then you are a murderer. Thus the government says you must do something to protect this baby. The fetus had no choice whether to be inside the mother's body or not. She cannot be given to another person. Thus, the only choice is for the baby to get the nutrition it needs to survive from his mother. An infant just born is totally dependent on another. If you leave it alone she will soon die. We do have a right to live. The morality is clear. The baby in the womb is doing what babies do normally. It is not strange or asking for something that is not natural or not asking for something in which we all asked for in the past.
So you have to say that some living humans do not have a right to live under normal situations and asking for normal things for his or her survival. Thus, you say the right to a woman's body is more important than a right to life of another innocent human. I think legally that should be against the law given other laws we have. Morally it is super clear. We have a moral responsibility to the innocent fetus. The fetus is the only one who is always completely innocent. The one human that has done nothing wrong. You want to say it is okay to kill him or her. I say it is wrong to kill an innocent human. You say it is fine if that human is naturally and normally relyign on its mother for survival. That seems super strange and evil.
@@carlpeterson8182 i understand why they didn't reply to you. your entire take is just laughable and you're constantly contradicting yourself its embarrassing
@@abbeytriplett8194 Please back up your statement. If you cannot then I will then I will just ignore you and hope others do also.
@@carlpeterson8182 my backup statement is your entire reply 1 inch above^! (-:
Great talk, sad that so many people downvoted it. I just get the image of a child with their fingers in their ears screaming '"la la la la"
Since you are the adult in the room, why don't you join the conversation and have a meaningful discussion with those who disagreed with the speaker?
I don’t get the picture of that child, because, sadly, it’s life was cut short.
@@thesimplegospel3529 You are assuming that most people who down voted the video didn't watch it. That may be false. I watched all of it but still down voted it.
@@thesimplegospel3529
It was about listening AND about being non-judgemental. First part of the message is OK, we need to listen to each other with civility and respect. Second part is not OK, not if you are talking about something as fundamental as whether a fetus is human or not. People are moral beings and we have the capacity to pass moral judgement on a stance like abortion. Asking a pro-lifer to be non-judgemental about abortion is like asking an abolitionist in the 19th century to keep his opinions about slavery private.
That's a better image then a child being pulled apart and flushes down the drain. Any woman who has an abortion and isn't emotionally wrecked by it is either acting like that child you spoke of or lacking a soul.
This is a good video, for it lets women know that talking about abortion is okay. Abortion has always been a topic that is kept quiet, and I think the speaker makes a good point at saying this causes women to feel alone. In fact, abortion is rather common and nothing to be ashamed of. The speaker does an excellent job in leaving politics out of the case, and just letting women and men talk about their abortion experiences. She makes a stand to call her point of view on abortion "pro voice", and says that people should tell stories and listen to each other about their deep personal stories. This is not always easy, for people have such opinionated views on abortion, and cannot help but bring politics into it. Everyone needs an outlet and emotional support after a life changing decision like abortion. This video bring a whole new positive side to abortion, and I think it is a step in the right direction.
Abortion OK unless you are the baby
It's as simple as this: whether you support pro life or pro choice abortion will never stop, they banned alcohol, guns, drugs, etc. And people always find a way to get their hands on it. making abortion illegal doesn't stop it, it just makes it more dangerous when people seek it out. And projecting morals is laughable coming from humans considering all the unethical things we do.
yes, murder and robbery are illegal yet people are still doing it. Imagine if those things are legal, imagine if those things are morally accepted.
I see right wing conservatives everywhere. I'm scared.
Go back to your echo chamber
@@NihilSineDeo09 Hilariously, like 'triggered' and 'snowflakes' the right seems vastly more prone to the ills that they paint the left with.
Watch them explode about 'happy holidays.'
I am perfectly fine with "Happy Holiday" for Christmas, because Christmas is indeed a Holy Day ;)You won't see any conservatives being scared just because their neighbors (or fellow youtubers) identify as liberal. We have a thick skin and we do not need safe spaces, just our God, guns and girls :)))
@@NihilSineDeo09 And yet one of those things doesn't exist, and another is expressly designed for death.
The visible freaking out about nothing, suggests very strongly that conservatives are not thick skinned.
Far from it.
You are confusing moral outrage with freaking out. Moral outrage is the right response when facing such a moral catastrophe like the selective genocide against babies in the womb
There are nearly 8 billion people on a planet suited to sustain 2 billion. Abortion would not even be an issue if contraception were safe and widely available.
So you should be asking yourself... why isn't it?
chas ames Technically the planet is able to sustain the amount we have right now.
If it wasn't able to, the population of the planet would be dropping.
What contraception isn't safe and widely available in the United States, or any other first world country?
chas ames Contraception fails... and in many countries religious beliefs negate contraception... and causes crap load of deceases instead.. nice going Pope and church... just check out WikiPedia -> Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
Agreed. Why ppl can't understand that 8 billion ppl and growing is TOTALLY unsustainable.
This is the biggest elephant in the room, no one will discuss the truth. Its the key to all environmental issues.
Its sad that people think that going through a difficult situation is a way to justify a story that ends with "and so I killed my baby"
Yeah honestly.......
We live in a fallen world 😔
Abortion is not 'killing a baby'. If you see a woman killing a baby, call the police. Removing a fetus with no ability to live independently from your uterus is not the same as killing a born baby.
It doesn’t change the fact that it is a baby
@@acvideos47 Whether it's a baby or not is completely irrelevant. It violates a woman's human rights to make her stay pregnant and give birth against her wishes.
Why is it a pro choice argument to state the whole "1 in 3" or "1 in 4" women will have an abortion..... that's disgusting!! Proves the point that we need to do something about it as a society!! Makes me sick.
Where is the pro life TED talk? Even though half the country believes a baby is baby, TED talk still does not allow it I suppose.
There is nothing more sad that bring a life not planed and that will not be loved and also will be poor. Abortion drop crime, give great life to women and childrens...
Give it for adoption, baby! And by the way, most women who decide to go ahead with a pregnancy (despite having second thoughts) fall in love with their babies when they get born. Even the ones who give up the babies for adoption still remain attached to them. For every child who regrets being born there are hundreds who are happy that they were allowed to come out of the womb.
Mike Nica that might be true but what about women who are raped
@@Luna-mq8ke
If the rapist is caught a publicly televised castration should be done. The child should not have to pay for the sin of a deranged man. That child has equal dignity with the kids who are procreated and later born in loving families. Having said that, as a society we need to build a better infrastructure to support the women who due to rape, age, economic reasons etc do not want to keep their babies and to help them to bring those babies to life, while also respecting their desire to be childless.
Murdering 2 year old children in the inner city will prevent the sad problem of children not being loved their entire life and them being poor. It will also drop the crime rate and will give great life to everyone
Also, ask every single foster child, even the ones that did not find "loving families" to adopt: 90+ percent will tell you that they are grateful that they have been brought in this world, instead of being aborted.
If the life of a newborn should be dictated by the feelings of the parents towards the infant, then wr should have the right to kill babies out of the womb if we don't feel like taking care of them. Wait, isn't this already suggested by some Democrats?!
Abortion is murder. Unless (and this is a relatively rare unless) your life is in danger. I am not the one to make the decision in this situation and it is a extremely sad situation to go through because there will be a definite loss of a human life. Another point is that if you are unable to support the child in which you are birthing, there are many solutions for you that do not include abortion.
Thumb down for the title not really matching the content.👎🏻
(I'm pro-listening, but I had the hope to hear more talk about what's in the title instead of kind of an advertisement for her talkline.)
I was a little apprehensive about watching this video because it is such a taboo topic and I thought it would make me feel uncomfortable listening to this but I really enjoyed this talk and how she was felt about abortion and how other women feel about it. Very accurate of her to say - regarding this topic- many people are heavily influenced by their upbringing and beliefs and it was very eye and ear opening for me.
"Support and respect for all" sounds nice, but I'm skeptical. Am I wrong to say that the outcome of these conversations is usually for the person to feel less conflicted about their experience? What if they did something genuinely despicable? Imagine an evangelical mother calling, conflicted about her decision to cut off all contact with her son who recently came out as gay. Is it right for her to walk away feeling more confident about that decision? Does she deserve "support?"
Emphasizing with her is important, yes. Understanding how she came to that decision, to see it as a real and serious conflict between two things she holds very dear, and not as simply callous, is important. But I would feel uncomfortable endorsing something that made such a person feel more secure in a decision to be a bigot. On the flip side, I can see pro-lifers being aghast at letting a women who had (in their eyes) *killed an innocent child* be comforted. What kind of value these interactions have seems highly sensitive to an individual's personal view point.
The only way this makes sense is if it's more an exercise in understanding other points of view than providing a service. In other words, if it's more about us than them. Which seems... Odd. Maybe I'm missing the point?
You nailed it!
well said
Here's why this woman's "pro-voice" stance is nonsense to those who are anti-abortion. It's fine that listening and sharing stories is at the heart of being pro-voice. Indeed, at the heart of the pro-life stance is the act of giving a voice to the voiceless. The pre-born victims of abortion cannot call a friend and talk about their abortion experience. No one takes them to coffee so they can listen to their perspective. This inability to tell evocative stories does not mean they are any less human or that they should be ignored. But by ignoring them, this supposedly "pro-everybody" pro-voice perspective is already unavoidably skewed to one side, and it's not the side that takes into account the humanity of the pre-born. And so, because so many still aren't really listening, the heinous injustice of abortion blithely continues. But hey, at least some of us are telling stories.
You’re taking a life. It is something you should regret.
What is the definition of taking a life? Is it when it has its first heartbeat or when it can survive outside the mother? What is the difference between a fetus and a bunch of cells?
The Mountain, haha, great comment
The Mountain there’s a difference between a living skin cell and living human being buddy.
1 in 3 women?
Yes. Was there more to that question?
"In a life-time"
So they probably had baby later.
If a woman is raped should she be forced to keep a child? If a contraceptive method fails should she be forced to keep a child? If she takes the pill every single day but is in the 2% that gets pregnant should she have to keep a child she wanted to prevent? Some people are unlucky and the woman should always have the final say when a child is growing inside her, causing sickness and pain, pretty much leaving her on her own with a unlucky accident she did everything to prevent. We trust women. #prochoice
“We all don’t have to end up in the same place...”
But every aborted child ends up in the same place 🤔
Poli Incredible just like us someday-we’re all going to die at some point
Tara Jordan but hopefully after we’ve lived out our purpose, and have had a chance to contribute to the betterment of our world.
Poli Incredible hopefully, but not everyone has that chance. I’m just saying, there’s no sense in being afraid of death since we’re all going to do it someday
Tara, I’m not afraid of death. Death is a natural part of life, actually it’s a welcomed transition into an eternal reward for those of us who believe in Christ. But it is even more welcomed and more rewarding when we have had the opportunity to live out our purpose here on earth.
We can only imagine how many gifted physicians, scientists, writers, and artists have been snuffed out in the womb. How many times the cures for cancer, HIV/AIDS, and other chronic illnesses have been brutally destroyed in the name of convenience.
Rather than celebrating or getting comfortable with premature death, we should choose and embrace life at all stages.
Poli Incredible you seem to assume that the women who chose to abort do not hold the answers to some of life’s greatest mysteries themselves.
A lot of good information here but let’s be honest… This is a pro-choice video. How could anyone who believes in pro life gain anything from this? How could anyone who doesn’t agree with killing a child in the name of freedom use this to help them?
Shaun Parkinson
By LadyRachel Heath : “Everyone is indeed talking about the wrong thing. We should be discussing how to prevent unplanned pregnancies.” . So stop wasting all of your/our time going to the extreme with examples of all that can go wrong. There’s a lot of things that can happen to make positive changes before everything you mentioned. …But if you’re going to live by an extreme… At least do it on the side of good and not killing human life. Not killing babies. It’s amazing that anyone would ever stand for killing babies. It’s also amazing how far people will go to try to justify or prove that a baby in the womb is not a human life. My father who just died, God bless his soul, Looked at me when I was 15 years old. The subject of abortion had come up when he and my stepmother were discussing teen pregnancy. He looked at me with the most sad and passionate eyes and said, “Bren… No matter what anyone says or thinks...(And he held both his hands in the air with his index fingers pointing toward each other and slowly brought his fingertips together) the moment that that sperm meets with that egg… It is a life!” Thank You God 🙏🏼 so much for my earthly father’s great wisdom and also thank You that I didn’t get pregnant back then because my stepmother had a plan and had me convinced that if it happened she would take me downtown and take care of everything and no one would ever know. I guess she forgot about my own heart knowing… And God knowing…. I have been the shoulder for many women who have made this decision and it destroyed decades of their lives because it starts in the soul. The pain doesn’t go away. You always know how old your child would be each year and always wonder who they would be...what they would look like... how much they would love you...how much you would love them. You’re healthy thought patterns change possibly forever because you can’t even look at the loving moment with a child and their parent because it remind you of what you would have had. How healthy is it to shut down those beautiful emotions? To have to fight them your entire life until you find forgiveness and reconciliation in your heart before your own Creator who made sure that you made it here and had a chance at life. You always know you killed destroyed something beautiful that God gave you. A miracle that He gave you. I’m not just for protecting the babies...Im also for protecting the mothers from lifelong pain and mental illness due to deep sadness in the soul that no busy life or material possessions can ever heal.. That’s something that Planned Parenthood and pro abortion and pro-choice activist never talk about.
focus, people, focus!
the topic isn't "abortion" it is "listening 101"
she is using abortion & giving birth as a spectrum of understanding. You don't have to agree with someone to have empathy for them. christ! this title will have such a negative impact on the message. great job TED!
Well, conversation on topics such as seeking a moral justification for killing people is good. Conversation, commonality, and story telling however does not change the fact that abortion is the extermination of a living human being developing within its mother's womb.
Listening, and storytelling...and justifying killing. What a calm and beautiful time. Anything to keep people's eyes away from reality.
The human brain is intricately designed to execute cognitive functions, such as perception, attention, action, memory and learning. The complete nervous system is active during prenatal development and the aim of this review is to present data on fetal cognitive functions. The fetus processes sensory stimuli at a cortical level, including painful stimulus, from about 25 weeks of gestation onwards. At gestational week 34, the fetus is able not only to perceive complex acoustic external sounds but also to discriminate between different sounds. Fetal action planning is established by 22 weeks and investigations using four-dimensional ultrasound reveal that complexity of fetal motor action and behavior increases as pregnancy progresses. The capacity of the fetus to learn and memory are prodigious. At term, subcortical structures of the brain are well developed. There is high activity in primary cortical areas and low activity in association areas. Clinically relevant data on cognitive functions of the fetus could be important for the management of fetal pain and treatment of preterm infants as well as for improved neurodevelopmental outcome of fetuses from high-risk pregnancies. Finally, the brain's developmental journey, including development of cognitive functions, continues with the same intensity in the postnatal period.
The fetus does not have consciousness until the 20th to 22nd week. Having the right to abort a baby under the 12 weeks of pregnancy is not inhumane. Try disproving me other than with religious morality.
@@bloodcottoncandy Just trying to understand your logic. Does this mean it is okay to kill people who are in a coma based solely on how we (who aren't in a coma) feel? Humans who are asleep are unconscious - is it okay to kill them, as long as they die instantly without time for their "consciousness" to return? By the way, your information is incorrect in some places. For example, babies prior to 20th week are known to respond distinctly to specific human voices, including the ability to recognize specific voices of specific people.
I also said nothing about "humane." Under what moral code or justifiable logical process is it "humane" to give one person the right to kill an innocent human? Killing a human in a "humane" way doesn't make it right. We're not talking about a goldfish here. We're talking about a distinct human life. A baby with his own genetic code, blood type, and separate existence. The entire genetic makeup of the child is in place at the moment of conception, when the entire DNA code is set. The science, reason, facts and logic of "when life begins" is so clear that it's not even necessary to appeal to religious authority, which is the main reason I don't during these discussions. Though, I would submit to you that you really can't have any type of justifiable "morality" without God. After all, if your morality comes from any other source, it is subject to fault, fallacy, and replacement. But I guess that's another discussion altogether. A great many people who are "pro-life" are not religious whatsoever. Thus the seeming insinuation from your statement that "people only think abortion is wrong is because of religion" runs into a pretty hefty brick wall.
On a personal note - are you expecting people to take the information you present seriously, when you use a screen name like "Blood Cotton Candy"? It doesn't exactly scream "I'm a critical thinker with verifiable facts to share!" does it? I'm putting this as a separate item, because it is separate from our discussion, but just struck me as odd.
@@johnburke3693
>Just trying to understand your logic. Does this mean it is okay to kill people who are in a coma based solely on how we (who aren't in a coma) feel?
that's called euthanasia, and yes it is justified in many cases
The more you wait, the more it is criminal, end of discussion..
I.😢
Did three abortions Because of my mental issues
0:50 " i did not know how to decide" what about balancing what's more "important" a human life or ones own irresponsibility and convenience ? I'd choose the former.
Pro life. Need to stop abortion it is evil.
As someone who had an unplanned pregnancy it was a lonely place, but I knew that abortion was not morally neutral. I chose life first actually to safeguard my mental health because I am an empath. People make the argument that the fetus' intense dependence points to it being okay to remove it, but birthed babies are just as dependent. Life begins at conception when oocyte and sperm lead to an organism under constant development. It is like a asteroid ripping through space, the potential is being actualized; development is continuing from conception until the brain is done development in the mid-twenties. My heart breaks for women who have had to make that decision. Unwanted pregnancies should be prevented in society, but sometimes unwanted pregnancies turn into the best thing to ever happen to someone. Children are a blessing. (:
Not every ejaculation deserves a name
Just like not every rambling deserves a reply lol
Terrible title. Should be "Aspen Baker: How to be a good listener"
Not all abortions are Moloch Worship. If the fetus is thrown away, that’s not a proper sacrifice. Read Leviticus 18:21 for guidelines.
so amazing :) Thank you so much for sharing and for positively changing the conversation!! such a courageous, powerful woman and very well spoken.
Could barely struggle through the boredom on this one.
I agree that the focus can and should be on preventing unplanned pregnancies, but normalizing the taking away of innocent life like this is not okay.
This topic was more about her branding she created "Pro-Voice". I was hoping to get her side of abortion and how she feels towards it.
I'm pro voice. Pro being the voice of the defensless unborn babies.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
Hi there, I understand what you are saying and your concerns that abortion is killing an unborn child. That being said, it is important for women to have access to abortion for a variety of reasons. For one, the health of the mother may be at extreme risk due to the pregnancy, and who is to say that the unborn child as you put it- or really just a collection of cells- is more important than the life of that mother. Our healthcare system needs to treat all patients with the principles of beneficence and nonmaleficience by creating an environment where providers are doing no harm to their patient and actually doing what is best for their patient. I understand that can be confusing- as doing what is best for the mother may not be doing best for the fetus. But what if the fetus has a severe genetic mutation that will cause it to lead a short and painful life? Then an abortion may be truly a better option for both the mother and the fetus, instead of making that unborn child and the mother suffer both physical and emotional trauma.
While there. is value in a fetus, do we really value the life of that fetus over the lufe of the mother. The mother is alive rihgt now, with human connections- family, friends, coworkers etc. Her autonomy to chose not only affects her butaffects the people around her. Is the healthcare system and our government the best people to make forced medical decisions for patients? or should patients be provided with autonomy to make decisions about their own bodies. Additionally, is it just for the people to be making decisions about women's bodies to not be women? Why are men in politics able to make decisions about what a women does with her body?
@@medstudent-w6k You yourself are just a collection of cells.
Also I'm not in favor of euthanizing the disabled.
It's either your for abortion or your not you can't sugar coat it either way
In 1915, my grandmother was having trouble with her pregnancy, the local doctors encouraged her to abort the baby, for her own survival, but she refused to kill her soon to be born child. She was in an area where illegal, but "safe" abortions were performed. She told the doctors that "God could not forgive her for killing her baby, and she could not forgive herself." She felt the love she had for her child in her womb. She went on to give birth her third child in January of 1916. The baby was premature, but survived. My grandmother sadly died one month after giving birth. That child grew up to marry and had two children of which I am the oldest. I am married and my wife and I have two sons. Both are married and one has a son. So, three generations later, my family is thriving thanks to the courage and strong faith that my grandmother had.
My grandmother made a decision based on her bonding with her child, faith and the risks at the time, to keep her baby to term and risk her life in the process. My family is forever grateful to her for that.
Now, if a woman chooses to terminate her pregnancy, and kill her baby, that's her option, but my faith tells me to thank God every day that I can live this life thanks to the faith and love of my grandmother.
If a woman decides to terminate their pregnancy for no good reason, she will have to answer to God for eternity.
How I wish that my monster mother should aborted me while I was a baby, she would be having less sin in aborted me as a baby than let me suffering in this world with her cause. She was the cause of my great suffering. Those kids aborted were much much luckier than me.
What she proposes is really nice. But defibitelly, she didn't undestand the claim of the anti-anortionist at all. This solves almost nothing
If someone says they are suicidal it's OK. Someone talks about the rage they feel towards society and their urges to do something about it...OK.
Really? That doesn't sound like a good approach.
I would argue that the whole world is NOT on the “side of the women” making the choice for abortion. Your talk is just a play on words to make this all acceptable and okay. What is being said is- it’s a hard choice so if we “just listen” it will be okay. “When we reflect on the words people are saying we are conveying that we have an interest in who they are and what they are going through.”
So we want to be able to “listen and talk” with empathy, okay, but no matter how well people are taught to listen and talk with someone about abortion, no listening ear or kind words can take away the FACT that an innocent human being’s life is at stake of being ended by the choice of the person who is the host (the mother) of that newly formed life. No matter how hard we listen or what kind words are used in talking with someone about abortion only the right of the host (mother) is being considered and the right of the life of the newly formed human being (the baby) is being denied.
If we can talk about it it's okay to do what we want. What's a life compared to me having fun. Impregnating a women if she can't cope with the pregnancy is violence against women of the worst kind, to put them into a situation where they feel to have to kill their own child, thus something to help them out of, not to make them permanent victims of the men that exploit them. Thus if faced with such a situation it helps to understand the crisis of the other person, but to reinforce actions that kill lives is not pro humanity. Otherwise she is just a hollow echo chamber like the social media you search and find arguments to reinforce your own thinking.
Listen to Stephanie Gray instead if you want to find a better way to talk about abortion
Thank you for posting this, TED! 😀
Of course women should be careful and take care of their own bodies and reduce the chances of being in a situation where they have a unwanted child. However there are loads of situations that can be found like rape and forcing a women to have the child which they can't look after (remember that people have abortion because either they can't look after the child or they are too young) It can cause the child to have a terrible life they may not even survive if for example the mother's parents disown her and she gets forced to fend for herself. It happened often and we can't take away someone's right to a life. I'm going to say it now that I'm a young woman (Age is classified) and if I was too find out that I'm pregnant it would ruin my life and I would be devastated. I would follow the abortion rules for example I think it's above 5 weeks u cannot abort but I'm afraid I think abortion would be my only option. To understand there point of view u must imagine a situation where I wouldn't and couldn't keep the child. It is a very difficult decision but I'm sure that alot of women will be able to make that choice and I want that choice to be available. Forcing a women to have a child is not morally right either so if ur using the moral argument then it doesn't work.
I don’t think if anyone forces women to have the child
The child just need to live the same way you did
If you find a bird egg in the wild and you eat it do you say "I ate a bird" or "I ate an egg"?
Is the egg fertilized already? :)
@@NihilSineDeo09 ahahahhaa. So you don't respect the potential life? If we keep the egg warm in an incubator that give birth to a little bird. So yes the egg is already fertilized.y god, you're so dumb.
ginger, you're the dumbest
@@bp6329 The really dumb ones don't know how dumb they are. Knowing basic biology is a luxury.
This it's another pro abortion piece wrapped up in a we need to hear both sides of the story. When do we hear the murdered child's side? When do you ever hear about the decent men and women who decided to take responsibility and not get pregnant until they were ready? When do you hear about the parent who decided not to murder and instead stood up for life and gave the child a chance to live through adoption?
Sometimes the hardest choice is making the right choice before making a wrong choice out of convenience.
Jeffrey Kuster Well there is no child, theres a puddle of cells with no conscious so if you're going to give that a voice you might as well fight for the rights of plastic blocks or the rights of brain tumours.
Jeffrey Kuster ...aaaand most of the time children that weren't wanted don't have the happy life they would deserve. especially with children concieved by rape. Not to mention that little human running around reminding the mother of a traumatic experience every single day.
Jeffrey Kuster The problem is, the child's side is far sadder when they are born. "Just put the kid up for adoption" and then what? The child doesn't just grow up without parents. The child grows up UNWANTED. And what is life, if you spend the whole thing knowing you're unwanted. No one likes abortion. No one is happy to have one. No one is "pro abortion". But being anti abortion doesn't make you "pro life" it's pro birth. If that child is born and then abused and unwanted, then that's okay. But it's not.
And lots of people take the responsibility to not get pregnant until they are ready. But things happen. If someone is killed in a car accident, no one runs over and yells at them for not taking the responsibility to drive safe.
kalzorath when you don't tell both sides of the story here, then yes you are pro abortion. They are depicting it as a normal decision with no regard to others. There are probable causes to consider an abortion but to tell it as an easy out for 99% of the women then it's just pro abortion.
Jeffrey Kuster 13 year old girl get's raped... What then... There are times when it is necessary.
If we understand the science we have to accept that life begins at conception and abortion is a human rights issue. Perhaps this person should explain what happens to the baby during the abortion.
I know it is hard to think outside your established self and values. I was pro life before. Then I learned that children can get pregnant by rape. Read up on the foster care statistics. Learned about Narcissistic personality disorder and the damage it brings to children raised by these people. Then it made me realize that no matter how ugly it is to terminate, we are not doing this potential life any favors by forcing its mother to have it. Being born for those people is just a life of suffering
All I hear is a woman promoting her company for financial gain
Ok personally i think if you have a late pregnancy then you should put the baby up for adoption.
Should the government have the legal right to force people to use their bodies against their will to save the life of another person? Even at risk Of death, quality of life, physical damage to self, and financial ruin? Body autonomy is important.
The ALMIGHTY sees and hears the crying of the BLOOD of these precious babies. The innocent BLOOD screams from the ground as The BLOOD of Abel did!
Genesis 4:10
The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.
Psalm 139:16 (NLT)
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.
Isaiah 49:15-16
15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, or lack compassion for the child of her womb? Even if these forget, yet I will not forget you.
16 Look, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; your walls are continually before Me.
Psalm 23:9
Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother's breast.
Psalm 142:6 (NIV)
6 Listen to my cry, for I am in desperate need; rescue me from those who pursue me, for they are too strong for me.
Psalm 38:21-22 (NIV)
21 Lord, do not forsake me;
do not be far from me, my God.
22 Come quickly to help me,
my Lord and my Savior.
Teri Wayne Ballard amen !
Seagullson what if you don’t believe there is a God? I personally am a pro-choice atheist, and I’m interested if you have any further opinions on the subject beyond bible quotes? 🤔
(no shade, just asking).
@@natalie-cu3to honestly, it's scientifically proven that life begins at conception. Now Im going to assume that you would agree with me that murder is wrong, so why is abortion am exception? Here's my biggest points.
One, yes you have the right to make decisions about your body, the baby is not your body. It is within your body but it is not "your" body.
Two. People bring up health of the mother, but after an abortion, the baby can't stay inside. They have to take it out still. And any doctor will tell you (believe me, I have several family members who are doctors or in the medical field one of whom specifically worked with delivery.) That in no situation is abortion the only way to save the mother.
Three. People also bring up rape, but why should the baby be punished for something that the rapist did?
4. Even if rape and health of the mother were valid arguments, that only accounts for about 2-3 percent of abortions (I can't remember the exact statistics but it's around that) so why should we justify all abortion based on such a tiny percent of abortions?
Then there's my faith, witch Trump's all of this, but if you want scientific proof then here you go.
@@cameronbrown_music What you are using is emotionally loaded language to create a subjective narrative, not science which is objective. The (objective) science is; that once an egg is fertilized (genetic material is added) a chemical reaction starts toward slowing forming a new human unit. This is not the beginning of life, but an extension of life.
Life is a continuum that began millions of years ago. Organic life in mammals, is the combining of cells to make new variations through reproduction, then die. Not every unit must copy itself for the process to continue.
Murder is legal terminology (subjective) for the breaking of the social consensus. Better known as law. The social consensus is that a woman has the choice (by law) to stop the process of constructing a new unit in the early stages of the project.
The law takes into account the fact that accidents happen, and that there is only a tiny difference between a fertilized egg, and a fertilized one. Once the project unit reaches the stage of awareness, the law then starts to consider the unit a person with limited rights. This is the best compromise that can be made, given the competing interests.
@@LogicAndReason2025 well I'm sure you would agree with me that killing a human being is wrong, if not I would honestly be a bit concerned. But life does begin at conception, scientists agree about that. I definitely disagree with you about religion but besides that, by the time most mothers even know they are pregnant, almost everything is already formed,
So how does a change of location change the value of the baby?
Abortion shouldn’t be banned it should still be legal under certain circumstances if the baby isn’t going to survive if the mother can’t physically have the baby safely if the pregnancy is threatening the mother’s life or if the pregnancy was the result of rape those are real legitimate reasons for abortion where the mother would actually need it.
Fertilization and death are the only 2 clear-cut changes of status in the human life cycle. Everything else is gradual change. 12 or 20 weeks is arbitrary. That’s why scientifically, human life begins at fertilization. A fertilized cell is a human being. Almost all arguments for abortion are not good enough reasons to kill a person. It’s crucial that women are loved and supported in pregnancy, and that all unborn children are valued as unique individuals. Having your baby isn’t the end of the world. It’s possible. Someone will adopt them if need be. Your concerns are really important. But the right to life of your unborn child is the most basic right it has. Consider the baby’s right to choose life. If you’re tempted by abortion, get an ultrasound & see what the foetus truly is: a tiny person.
Human being is not scientific at all. It is a philosophical construct. Moreover, murder is a legal term and has no basis in science. It is not even a scientific concept, as literally everything would be murder. Abortion does not kill a human being. It kills a fetus. This is not murder.
Yes, abortion kills a fetus, but you are not disputing Tom's point - namely that a fetus is human.
As someone who places a high value on life and may never be able to have children, it deeply angers me when women choose to throw away the lives of their unborn children like they don't have any worth instead of giving them to someone like myself who would love them and give them a great life.
The foster system is overloaded. Go adopt one.
Some couples who wish to adopt want to have a newborn baby, not a child who comes with a lot of baggage. Unless you yourself has adopted loads of kids from the foster system, you are in no position to criticize those who wish to adopt a newborn. Otherwise, you would be like someone who gives no money to charity and criticizes the one who gives a certain amount for not giving more of his income to charity.
@@NihilSineDeo09 they have newborns at foster homes. Baby so young their baggage hasn't even effected them yet.
Plus it's a noble thing to do, to go through our foster care system
@@NihilSineDeo09 children are not some toy where you can just throw out the old ones and get the shiny new one. honestly that's just disgusting of you to say things like that. nothing wrong with adopting babies but arguments like that make me sick. all children in the system deserve a home no matter what their age is.
@@katzmanon
Exactly, you said it yourself, they aren't toys that you can just be thrown away. Does that mean you are against abortion (which essentially is throwing away a child's life)?
I kind of disagree with her. We need to be able to discuss ideas rather than people. When "lived experience" is the central evidence in a point that one its trying to make, to deny it, one has to deny something about that person's identity. Consensus is important, but only if we're coming together around something approaching truth. Truth is found through a clash of ideas, which this listening and story telling agenda makes impossibly personal.
Murdering the unborn is not only a-moral... but also... contemptuous!
TED has found its Yoko ono.
its called feminism.
DIVAD291 SUCH a childish & immature comment.
It is extremely upsetting how she boasts about having an abortion as if it's an achievement. I'm sure she was traumatized by it like so many, unless she's not human
Also, you don't want to feel bad about snuffing your own baby, why is it anyone else's problem? FTS
***** "issues we can't talk about" How about men's lack of reproductive rights? (this actually affects everyone)
Sean Walsh
How about adoption? Or legal abandonment? Both options available for women, not for men, even if they were raped or can't afford a child.
And women don't have abortions to prevent children's suffering most times. Killing a kid because they suffer or would potentially suffer is a crime if done by a man.
And why is it anyone else's problem? Why does she need us to accept her for her personal choices of killing her kid? (BTW, when she had an abortion, she wasn't raped and the kid wasn't deformed, lol)
***** thank you! I've been having an argument with another person for an hour, and they seem completely blind about how abortion is wrong and unethical. I'm so against it because people can save a baby and place them for adoption. I know this because I was adopted, and placed in foster care and I made it perfectly fine. People need to realize that yeah, adoption can make you feel guilty for abandoning a child, but wouldn't abortion make you feel worse? Wouldn't abortion make you feel like you murdered a potential life? Honestly, I'm glad I was placed in foster care and adopted because now I am going to use that to my advantage to become a police officer so I can hopefully prevent other homes from falling apart like mine did, and prevent events leading up to abortion, because it really isn't worth it, when you look at a new born child and see how fragile he or she is, and think to yourself: "would someone seriously want to murder something so innocent, defenceless and special as this?"
Jordan Haines
Some women actually do murder their babies, and they get away with it too because it's classified as a different, lesser crime called "infanticide".
Jordan Haines If the woman and the man didn't plan on having a baby and contraception failed, surely it should at least be open to discussion -> and as the TED showed that is where people need to learn to LISTEN and have Empathy with either party (the man or woman concerned). Also no mention has been made about rape cases which are very prevalent in 3rd world countries... but then because of religious pressure safe and medically sounds abortions aren't available... and many many people die in back-alley abortions... surely there is a huge problem that at least needs open discussion.