Super helpful video. I like how you showed the comparisons side by side by side for various ISOs. This helped me visualize things. For most shoots I’m going to start shooting compressed to save myself some storage. Thank you.
Very good video, concise information, well explained. Just one question...does the Sony a7iv, 33 mpx, lower its megapixel resolution when shooting in lossless compressed RAW and compressed raw? I mean, is it no longer a 33 MPX camera? It seems that in RAW compressed without loss LARGE, it takes 20 MPX photos In MEDIUM lossless compressed Raw, photos of approximately 14 MPX And Raw compressed without loss CHICO, photos of approximately 8 MPX Is this true? We look forward to your kind and honest response.
You just saved me a lot of testing time. I moved from Canon DSLR to a Sony A7RIIIa recently. I shoot models, and there I don't need much of the dynamic range of uncompressed. No way can I have a folder of 3000 images of a model in uncompressed 42Mpx images that will be used for an iPad. I've been shooting compressed, and often in APS-C crop to reduce file size. YUet I was curious to find out if I am missing anything! Thanks to you, No worries there.
Thanks for your testing, but I think there is a misconception that compression inherently requires irrecoverable loss of information. From Sony - "A lossless compressed image is processed by post-processing software and the data is decompressed like a ZIP file. Decompression allows you to expand the compressed file back to its original size." This is, of course, the definition of "lossless". So there are absolutely NO DIFFERENCES between lossless compressed and uncompressed (unless Sony is intentionally misleading its customers regarding lossless file compression ... which I highly doubt.)
I would trade getting a little bit of a buffer but still being able to shoot uncompressed RAWs at 10 fps when/if using a cf express type a card. Granted, like you said, most people wouldn’t need that, but it would be nice not having to make a decision of whether or not I’d need to switch from uncompressed to compressed when being out shooting.
One of the main things to consider is software that doesn't fully support the compressed formats, including LR and DxO that turn off features or won't open the files at all.
Thanks for the comparisons, I was dead set at only using uncompressed until I daw this video. that being said I'll likely only switch to compressed when I need that 10 frames.
I have started up with lossless compressed. It gives me filesizes about 40 mb. When I start up with birds in the spring I will probably use compressed. It is a bit strange that both 60 mb and 40 mb should reduce the spreed to 6 pps. The camera should be able to shoot 8 pps in lossless compressed.
Found this useful as I often shoot combat sports and while 6 fps is acceptable when I want the best IQ with Uncompressed Lossless the 10 fps is a much needed benefit for sports.
thank you very much for this video. For weddings, do you think it is a good solution to shoot in lossless compressed RAW (whit new firmware it is RAW L) and then convert to lossless DNG with LR to save 30% more space?
It's not the MAC, or whatever PC you might have, that is the issue. The issue is in the program you use to read/edit RAW files from cameras. Which program are you using?! If you're using LRC/PS/CO, then make sure to update the program to the latest patch or at least to the patch that has the support for that camera. You can't use e.g; Lightroom 1.0, if Adobe released the support for the Sony alpha 7 IV in patch 1.1. You would have to update your Lightroom to version/patch 1.1 to have the support/ability to read/edit a7IV RAW files.
@@nogerboher5266 how is not the Mac? Mac Preview can read all my other raw files besides the a7iv.. I don’t have an issue viewing the a74 files in light room …
@@alansarpy Because, as I said, it's not the Mac, it's the Mac Preview. You will need to wait until Apple releases an update for Mac Preview that supports Sony a7IV files - and that can take months... For example, the most recent cameras from Canon and Nikon; R6 and R5 took 4 or 5 months to get supported by most well known programs... Same for Z6ll and Z7ll. I remember I waited until somewhere around June, 2021 for the support update for Z6ll and Z7ll on Lightroom Classic and the cameras were available for purchase in October 2020... That's about 7 months.
I appreciate you taking the time to do these tests, but I’m not convinced that they’re the best sort of test to show how compression affects the image. Firstly, lossless is lossless… once lossless is uncompressed, the image is identical to uncompressed. So if you’re seeing differences between these two it’s probably just due to the random nature of noise between these shots… real quality differences are impossible. Lossy compression mostly degrades transition areas around bright/dark areas, or subtle shading in areas of changing contrast. This test chart is mainly color blocks… I’m just not sure it’s the type of picture where you’d see the worst effects.
@@RUclipsr-ku4nk On my A1 testing i found the same thing not 100% sure yet since lossless implies well its lossless but i feel like many brands sony also 'cooks' his raws and almost looks like they add a little more noise reduction at times.
@@StefanMalloch i found i was using the bluetooth imaging transfer from my camera to my phone which was trasferring images at a low bitrate 980kb. I downloaded it directly from the camera to a computer and the 30mp image was transferred
Ok one remark (ill leave uncompressed vs lossless compressed out of the picture) .. NOT all sony cameras are the same on compressed (lossy) compression. The older models used a 12bits compression and slightly worse method in my view. The newer cameras like the A7IV still use 12bits for compressed raw but seems to me better quality (less edge cases thing they also smooth a little in raw). But the A1 does compressed in 14bits ! and the compression alg. seems to be 13bits at least (so thats why they use a 14bits tag in the exif data where the others show 12bits in the exif data). So result is we see many reviews just 'assume' its sony compressed so allways the same on each camera and thats simply not true. Still preparing to make a video on the R3/R4 vs A1 compressed encoding when i have the time but test shots clearly show they are not the same format anymore. Also never listen to what others say like Stefan here test for yourself and your usage. The downsides of uncompresssed or lossless compressed are always the upsides are personal and probably limited.
PLEASE HELP!!... I RECENTLY DID A WEDDING IN LOSSLESS COMPRESSION FORMAT. I AM NOT ABLE TO OPEN RAW FILES. BUT WHEN I SHOOT UNCOMPRESSED THEN THEY ARE TOTALLY WORKING. ONLY WHEN I SHOOT COMPRESSED THEN I AM NOT ABLE TO OPEN OR EDIT THEM. I HAVE LATEST VERSION OF LIGHTROOM CLASSIC.
@@StefanMalloch I can't see preview in Lightroom. From where can I get sony codec? I tried to open it in Sony Image viewer but there it shows that it is raw file but i see jpeg version only.
Thanks for the reply. I don't know what is happening. I am able to open UNCOMPRESSED RAW FILES but in my laptop when I try to open compressed one it's shows that the file is currupted.
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Super helpful video. I like how you showed the comparisons side by side by side for various ISOs. This helped me visualize things. For most shoots I’m going to start shooting compressed to save myself some storage. Thank you.
Exellent, very useful video! Shooting compress from here on. Thanks.
Very good video, concise information, well explained. Just one question...does the Sony a7iv, 33 mpx, lower its megapixel resolution when shooting in lossless compressed RAW and compressed raw? I mean, is it no longer a 33 MPX camera? It seems that in RAW compressed without loss LARGE, it takes 20 MPX photos In MEDIUM lossless compressed Raw, photos of approximately 14 MPX And Raw compressed without loss CHICO, photos of approximately 8 MPX Is this true? We look forward to your kind and honest response.
You just saved me a lot of testing time. I moved from Canon DSLR to a Sony A7RIIIa recently. I shoot models, and there I don't need much of the dynamic range of uncompressed. No way can I have a folder of 3000 images of a model in uncompressed 42Mpx images that will be used for an iPad. I've been shooting compressed, and often in APS-C crop to reduce file size. YUet I was curious to find out if I am missing anything! Thanks to you, No worries there.
Thanks for your testing, but I think there is a misconception that compression inherently requires irrecoverable loss of information.
From Sony - "A lossless compressed image is processed by post-processing software and the data is decompressed like a ZIP file. Decompression allows you to expand the compressed file back to its original size." This is, of course, the definition of "lossless".
So there are absolutely NO DIFFERENCES between lossless compressed and uncompressed (unless Sony is intentionally misleading its customers regarding lossless file compression ... which I highly doubt.)
Thanks! I’ve never shot burst in my life. On an A7r iii now and I’ll stick with compressed.
I would trade getting a little bit of a buffer but still being able to shoot uncompressed RAWs at 10 fps when/if using a cf express type a card. Granted, like you said, most people wouldn’t need that, but it would be nice not having to make a decision of whether or not I’d need to switch from uncompressed to compressed when being out shooting.
One of the main things to consider is software that doesn't fully support the compressed formats, including LR and DxO that turn off features or won't open the files at all.
This video really helps. Very practical.
Very valuable and helpful video seeing as yesterday I bought an a7iv. Just subbed too! 🇬🇧
Glad it was helpful! Welcome
Thanks for thanking time out to share this very valuable info. very much appreciated.😁
Glad it was helpful
Thanks for the comparisons, I was dead set at only using uncompressed until I daw this video. that being said I'll likely only switch to compressed when I need that 10 frames.
Good format, good testing.
Thanks very much Stefan.
I have started up with lossless compressed. It gives me filesizes about 40 mb. When I start up with birds in the spring I will probably use compressed. It is a bit strange that both 60 mb and 40 mb should reduce the spreed to 6 pps. The camera should be able to shoot 8 pps in lossless compressed.
Found this useful as I often shoot combat sports and while 6 fps is acceptable when I want the best IQ with Uncompressed Lossless the 10 fps is a much needed benefit for sports.
This is great! Thank you
thank you very much for this video. For weddings, do you think it is a good solution to shoot in lossless compressed RAW (whit new firmware it is RAW L) and then convert to lossless DNG with LR to save 30% more space?
You bet. That's what I would be doing.
Try testing highlight recovery
My New Mac m1max can’t read the raw files from the A7iv :(
It's not the MAC, or whatever PC you might have, that is the issue. The issue is in the program you use to read/edit RAW files from cameras. Which program are you using?! If you're using LRC/PS/CO, then make sure to update the program to the latest patch or at least to the patch that has the support for that camera. You can't use e.g; Lightroom 1.0, if Adobe released the support for the Sony alpha 7 IV in patch 1.1. You would have to update your Lightroom to version/patch 1.1 to have the support/ability to read/edit a7IV RAW files.
@@nogerboher5266 how is not the Mac? Mac Preview can read all my other raw files besides the a7iv.. I don’t have an issue viewing the a74 files in light room …
@@alansarpy Because, as I said, it's not the Mac, it's the Mac Preview. You will need to wait until Apple releases an update for Mac Preview that supports Sony a7IV files - and that can take months... For example, the most recent cameras from Canon and Nikon; R6 and R5 took 4 or 5 months to get supported by most well known programs... Same for Z6ll and Z7ll. I remember I waited until somewhere around June, 2021 for the support update for Z6ll and Z7ll on Lightroom Classic and the cameras were available for purchase in October 2020... That's about 7 months.
Nice bro🙂✌️
I appreciate you taking the time to do these tests, but I’m not convinced that they’re the best sort of test to show how compression affects the image.
Firstly, lossless is lossless… once lossless is uncompressed, the image is identical to uncompressed. So if you’re seeing differences between these two it’s probably just due to the random nature of noise between these shots… real quality differences are impossible.
Lossy compression mostly degrades transition areas around bright/dark areas, or subtle shading in areas of changing contrast. This test chart is mainly color blocks… I’m just not sure it’s the type of picture where you’d see the worst effects.
I agree. So maybe Sony's lossless isn't really lossless - in the last picture at 5:10 the lossless clearly has less detail.
@@RUclipsr-ku4nk On my A1 testing i found the same thing not 100% sure yet since lossless implies well its lossless but i feel like many brands sony also 'cooks' his raws and almost looks like they add a little more noise reduction at times.
So the lossless raw is just like a Canon R6 raw file? 🤭
What are your settings for the sony a74? I have everything set to raw and am getting 600kb average with a sony 4/18-108 g lens
Your shooting with a crop lens in jpeg is sounds like. Use FF lenses and shoot raw for bigger files.
@@StefanMalloch i found i was using the bluetooth imaging transfer from my camera to my phone which was trasferring images at a low bitrate 980kb. I downloaded it directly from the camera to a computer and the 30mp image was transferred
Ok one remark (ill leave uncompressed vs lossless compressed out of the picture) .. NOT all sony cameras are the same on compressed (lossy) compression. The older models used a 12bits compression and slightly worse method in my view. The newer cameras like the A7IV still use 12bits for compressed raw but seems to me better quality (less edge cases thing they also smooth a little in raw). But the A1 does compressed in 14bits ! and the compression alg. seems to be 13bits at least (so thats why they use a 14bits tag in the exif data where the others show 12bits in the exif data). So result is we see many reviews just 'assume' its sony compressed so allways the same on each camera and thats simply not true. Still preparing to make a video on the R3/R4 vs A1 compressed encoding when i have the time but test shots clearly show they are not the same format anymore. Also never listen to what others say like Stefan here test for yourself and your usage. The downsides of uncompresssed or lossless compressed are always the upsides are personal and probably limited.
PLEASE HELP!!... I RECENTLY DID A WEDDING IN LOSSLESS COMPRESSION FORMAT. I AM NOT ABLE TO OPEN RAW FILES. BUT WHEN I SHOOT UNCOMPRESSED THEN THEY ARE TOTALLY WORKING. ONLY WHEN I SHOOT COMPRESSED THEN I AM NOT ABLE TO OPEN OR EDIT THEM. I HAVE LATEST VERSION OF LIGHTROOM CLASSIC.
Can you open them but not see a preview? Do you have the Sony codec installed?
@@StefanMalloch I can't see preview in Lightroom. From where can I get sony codec? I tried to open it in Sony Image viewer but there it shows that it is raw file but i see jpeg version only.
Thanks for the reply. I don't know what is happening. I am able to open UNCOMPRESSED RAW FILES but in my laptop when I try to open compressed one it's shows that the file is currupted.
He said: Let's do one more real world example that I did here IN THE STUDIO
Crappy high contrast lighting with high iso.. yep
A studio is part of the real world.
🤗