As a Jamaican, born, raised and living in Jamaica... I appreciated his accent. He did good. Obviously he doesn't sound authentically Jamaican because he's not, the biggest thing I sentence structure isn't how we would speak naturally but I get that the international audience also needs to understand. And we don't use the word irie in casual conversation. But I liked it.
Yes, I feel like you may be right, but I really have a couple of different problems with this analyses: 1) Joe Black is also foreign to English, he is other worldly and his syntax isn't always the most normal through the movie, it works to distinguish him from the humans 2) The creator seems gleeful in her criticism, dare I say disparaging? 3) "caricature" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable is something I have never heard before. Unique, interesting 4) My favorite expression from a Jamaican was : "Chingauo" which is Spanish "chingada" learned from native Vietnamese speakers. She used it to show excitement at a fireworks display. Language is fun sometimes.
As a non Jamaican, I can't speak to the accuracy of his dialect or accent, but as a anglo I can tell you that Joe Black very much wasn't 'all there' in english either. I think his character's point is that no matter what language he's speaking, he's 'Other'. He's wrong in some way. And that's because he's the literal Angel of Death. He's this entity wearing a human, so no matter what language he speaks, he's alien.
I realize it probably wasn't real authentic to a Jamaican, but it was passable to me. I thought it was one of the most poignant, fascinating scenes in the movie. Here was Death, the Grim Reaper, and this Jamaican lady immediately recognized him for who he was. He knew it, but still patiently tried to ease her fear and anxiety, and lovingly helped her pass when it was time. I truly understand how a native speaker might cringe at the dialog, but I think the scenes' messages were what was important.
Well you gotta keep in mind, Brad Pitts character is playing Death, So while yes Death should know the language cause well its Death and its been around since the dawn of time BUT its Death so hes or its going to say things with a bit more and this might not be the best word but "mystical" or prolonged way cause as death its talking to a being it doesnt see as its equal, lesser or greater. So imo its like it (Brad) was slowing or prolonging words to be easier on Lois Kelly-Millers character cause well its a human being that realizes shes in the presence of like the actual Death. But thats just my take on it lol
@@eightfold189 That's a great point! His English speech wasn't exactly normal, either. For example, if a Finnish actor was playing an average American guy and he sounded like Brad Pitt in this movie, I'd have criticisms too. Joe is an angel trying to act human, but he's still an alien being so he misses the mark a lot.
@@VictorLugosi ok, what does that have to do with Brad Pitt doing a terrible accent and the old lady not wanting to be alone with him? Sorry if I sounded rude, when I asked that, but I’m legitimately confused about why that was relevant.
@@VictorLugosi They weren't "Indian." They were natives. These native people had two names which historians usually go by: Arawak and Taíno. If you're gonna be a pedant with a strawman, then please, at the very least, just get your facts straight.
I think the “mistakes” in the pronunciation aren’t due to a lack of linguistics expertise, but rather slight changes to some words to make them more understandable to the general audience. Otherwise, it would be very hard for the average non-Jamaican speaker to follow the dialogue
I mean they could have had subtitles I guess. Other than that I cant speak to the accuracy since I have absolutely no idea about the correct pronounciation/grammar so I defer to the experts😂 What I did like is the concept itself. Of Death or the Reaper speaking your language/dialect. I think its criminally underused. In general the idea of a kind reaper is just so underused! I would love more movies and shows that portray death as sad, yes, but not an evil thing.
Perhaps, but the actual Jamaican lady already made an adjustment in her accent for that. Brad's accent was good though but it was just a little off in terms of cadence and Pronunciation which is typical of North Americans per se. Very hard to describe because the distinction is so subtle. The fact that his English is also loopy means the screenwriting corrected for these scenes and seems to balance out the rest of the movie nicely
Its the same way with Hollywood film when they try to sound African like Black Panther, Coming to America etc The so called African accent they protray sounds awful to the ears of an African person. But they don't care to get it right. ... As long as the Americans don't notice, they are fine
It's kinda frustrating how much hate he gets for it. It was literally like 20 seconds of a 2 hour movie. I could understand if it was the entire film. Also, nobody @ me 😂. I was born and raised in Kingston which wasn't always great because I'm Irish and my parents are white.
I wonder if an English actor for instance has ever done a Southern accent in a movie and really messed it up? I guess the problem with that is there would be plenty of Americans to make sure the vocabulary and pronunciation were correct. But if it was a British production, who knows? Benny Hill did some bad southern accents just to be funny.
@@craftsandstuff3349 plenty of people ragging on Emma Watson's American English in Perks of Being a Wallflower, and Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch's in their MCU appearances. Learning another language is hard, but learning another accent, even if only enough for a movie role, is arguably much more difficult.
Something I noticed about Jamaica during my first trip to the island as a “My Fair Lady” obsessed teenager was that there isn’t one static accent that everyone has. You listen to the radio (at least in 2003) and you’d hear a crisp British accent with only wisps of Jamaican in the corners, you’d speak to a doctor in a rich neighborhood and he’d have what sounded closer to what I had expected Jamaican to sound like as an American but still different like guava jelly on a pb&j, then you wind your way up into the bush and people are speaking with an English so thick it rivals the humidity. I was fascinated. I think something that’s really important to remember when talking about this is how much socioeconomics and geography factor into this discussion. It’s a tiny island, but it’s as diverse as anything I’ve found in my home state of New York. Another thing that affects this specific example is how filmmaking works (yeah, I’ve spent a collective few months in Jamaica and also went to film school in California, I felt compelled to post a comment). You have the original script-writer who may or may not know anything about what they’re writing about who comes up with the original dialogue for the film. Maybe they chose Jamaican because there was a Miss Cleo ad they heard earlier and they wrote it with Sebastian the crab’s voice. A director gets ahold of this and takes it to an actor and maybe lets them play around with the words that are written, maybe not. I suspect that in this case, Martin Brest and Brad Pitt probably really did want to make this authentic and asked Lois Kelly-Miller to help. Or she took one look at the script, laughed really hard, and helped the poor clueless white boy out. However, the actor doesn’t have final say, and neither does the director really. On the day of shooting you have a person called the Script Supervisor who has to make sure everything on the script is shot exactly as written on the paper at least once, and then that person has to take notes and document everything that was changed and which take changed what. Shooting just one of these two scenes might have taken an entire eight hour day, and if they pushed it and shot both scenes it definitely did. Brad had (worst case scenario, no accent coach) 8 hours to learn from Lois and give his best shot at this incredibly nuanced foreign language while cameras are rolling picking up every attempt along the way. The script sup. makes a note about which take is the best one, but then hands those notes off to the next person - an editor. In addition to choosing how the words sound the editor is also looking at how the actors performed each take and everything else that’s going on in the frame. Maybe they have one take where Brad Pitt absolutely nailed the accent, but he moved his arm weird and his jacket rucked up a little and that looked awkward so they went with the take right before he nailed it because the editor couldn’t tell the difference and they prioritized the jacked arm thing. Finally this all goes to a (or more likely a few) producers who are trying to see the film from the point of view of the average (read: dumbest) audience member. If something doesn’t make sense to them or they don’t like it, then the editor has to change it. If they want to have an over-annunciated “Aaaiiiiiiirrrreeeeeee” because they think it’s more “Jamaican” then that’s what we get. Tl;dr: There probably is a theoretical version of these scenes were Brad Pitt absolutely nailed every aspect of the accent (he’s really quite good at most of it, as was pointed out in the video). Then the probably clueless American script sup. director, editor, and producers made changes and we’re lucky to have what we’ve got.
I asked a Jamaican coworker of mine about these scenes and she said one or two of the colloquialisms or phrases he used sounded more Trinidadian than Jamaican
What minority did he play? What I miss? He played a helluva role in snatch...but damn sure looked like a white man/Caucasian whatever you wanna call him to me
@@thurmondcaldwell5482 'pikeys' or irish travellers are an ethnic minority in ireland and the UK. Still white but ethnically and culterally different from the majority.
I am a real linguist. And, while Brad Pitt's crack at the Jamaican accent may not have been perfect, it was close enough to get the job done. And this YaadPikni says why, at one point in her piece. The actress playing the mother is (or was, because I believe she may be dead now) a very famous Jamaican actress. And she was helping Brad get this right. She had just as much of stake in that as he did. So, I'd say its close enough. And we can give them a break because of the wonderful strains of Thomas Newman's (Uncle of Randy Newman) music, both here and through the entire movie.
The beauty of this scene is that death is universal and knows us all no matter where we're from. Also showed that death can be a mercy when someone is in pain. In the end when he said soon it was almost loving.
That was really cool. I never saw this movie yet but I saw the scenes of Brad Pitt speaking in a Jamaican English accent and it intrigued me. Your analysis was really cool and appreciated. Many keen Native English speakers that have been around many parts of the US and the World can really point out accents where people are from but having a native speaker is very helpful. Looks like Brad did pretty good to adapt as an actor.
Im not Jamaican but personally i don't see any problem with it because he's not trying to be Jamaican in the movie he's just trying to talk with a Jamaican accent Probably to help ease the worry of a sick old lady. All he claimed is that he's spent some time in the islands.
i know it may not have been perfect but the scenes with Lois are the best scenes of this entire movie....she plays such a good part and this scene is wonderful....i'm from the South and that's how we feel too when people try to talk southern....its so forcing it like its cartooney
As a Brit I feel the same when an American does a flat cockney accent in an attempt to sound British... weird thing is, Jason Statham is one of the worst offenders:)
This was really interesting! I love when he’s sitting by her bed just nodding and not speaking the most actually…I love how they’re looking at each other. Thanks for breaking this down for us!
I really wish that book was available!! I appreciate your videos so much. I am Jamaican and also knew right away Brad’s Pitt’s accent while it may have been the best he could do, we wouldn’t pronounce that line like that 😂. Thank you for your work in letting it be known that Jamaican Patois is indeed a language.
The problem here is that it is Brad Pitt that is speaking Jamican. We know he is not Jamaican. But even English among English-speaking nations will have a different intonations and even to some extent pronunciation. If Brad Pitt was Jamaican, no one will fault him from being off in speaking some Jamiacan words.
I was on a holiday 3 years back. Where i stayed, Was a bar was next door. The employees were mostly 21-30 year old real Jamaican women. They gave me countless tips for when i visit the island. However till that point i could not even google a good answer for Obeah / Obia. Those lovely women helped explain it to me. So i have extra appreciation for this video. You explaining it, maybe even over simplifying it for the general public. Then the Granny i think would come by time to time telling them get back to work. They would end up bickering a bit. Perhaps in creole?? I could not make out a word they said, And i am very good with accents even real thick ones.
That's so cute! Was the grandma the owner of the bar? If you couldn't understand them, it's very likely they were speaking in creole. Glad you found my obeah explanation helpful!
Great reaction. My ex was from Kingston and when we watched this he said that they should went for a straight Jamaican script for Pitt and subbed in English instead of the Jamaican- American English mix sentence. A for effort. RIP Lois Miller.
Nice breakdown. Frankly it sounded fine to me with little exposure to Jamaican language which I suppose is the point. I'm Scottish so I've learnt a long time ago to let piss poor attempts at Scottish accents in movies slide. Most people think that we have 1 accent which is just crazy, it depends on where you come from and, being a small country, the accents can change from town to town never mind region to region. doric, lallands, etc. Etc. Anyway minor rant aside to my ear the Jamaican accent is musical and pleasant to listen to.
98% of the people who watched this don't know if the Jamaican languages is butchered or not, which it wasn't, just slight nuances. They are enjoying a good moment in the movie. This was a good movie, and had many fine moments.
@@FirstLast-yc9lq If you knew anything about the Jamaican accent, you would be laughing too! I love Brad. He's a great actor. But he definitely did one of the worst Jamaican accents I've her in entertainment. It's the truth. Deal with it.
@@autumnjade815 You can know about accents, but you also need to understand acting - accents aren't easy, some are far more difficult than others especially depending on your native language. You're also not going to spend a ton of time mastering the accent for something you do for a few lines in a 3 hour movie. Again, this is why I say....you need to grow up. Also, he wasn't JUST doing an accent here - he was also adding in a playful snark while dropping his persona and going back to death. Also if you're going to be a perpetually online guy, do a bit of research rather than laughing. That's where this conversation will end.
Thank you for your breakdown and knowledge. I have always loved this movie and always wondered how true to the language he was. I also just learned that Lois Kelly Miller passed on. What a treasure.
I love all accents and have one too, my ex husband was from Egypt my son adopted from Russia and my family all Irish! I feel accents makes us interesting and everyone should b proud of their backgrounds. The Jamaican accent is just as beautiful as all the rest !☘️
I have always enjoyed the joyfulness of the Jamaican language. It sounds peaceful to me. That was my fav part of the movie. Enjoyed this well done video.
Thank you so much for that. I love those accents. I’ve lived in coastal South Carolina my whole life. My friends here are Gullah and they speak Geechee. It’s nowhere near as hard as Creole or Patois (in my Caucasian opinion) and I understand it much better. I wouldn’t ever attempt to try to speak it though. God bless.
My absolute pleasure, William! Like the Jamaican language, Gullah is an English-based creole, and while watching a few videos on it, I was able to understand most everything being said without needing to look at the subtitles. The speakers were speaking slowly though, so the true test will be listening to native speakers having a conversation entirely in Gullah. Thanks for reminding me about such a beautiful language!
I really appreciated this video. I was mesmerized watching the clip of the first scene for obvious reasons (having not seen the movie), so it’s interesting to see an explanation of what the movie and Pitt get wrong or right.
I really appreciated this analysis, with its descriptiveness and detail, the "not this, but that" specificity. It elevates it from how some describe it as if it were mere opinion or 'gut feel' and nails it down point by point. I'm from the southern US, and have cringed over the years at actors playing southern roles, who sound like they never heard our accent at all, as if they're reading it phonetically from a page, or worse, making up how they imagine it sounds. They sound like the southern equivalent of Hugh Grant in _Mickey Blue Eyes (1999)_ trying (and failing) to say 'Fuhgeddaboudit' like an NYC mobster. Your precise descriptions would have cleared it right up for him! Oh, and how about that Lois Kelly-Miller! She's beautiful! What a talent! I'm somewhat a student of facial expressions, and hers were spot-on! One moment in particular, when Death takes her, she sighs out her last breath and relaxes her head slightly to the side, her facial muscles then appear to 'deflate' somehow, as if no longer plumped up by blood pressure. She literally empties all expression (and, seemingly, fluid volume) from her face! How's she do that? Phenomenal actress!
I Was raised around Jamaicans and West Indies / Caribbean culture is a major part of my early childhood, I could never put a finger on exactly why Pitt's performance sounded weird to me, just that it was off. Thank you for breaking it down.
Jane here. I knew nothing about the movie before seeing your video. What a lovely lady. Her accent was very relaxed. Perhaps Brad Pitt just needed a bit more time rehearsing his accent until it was flawless. I remember the very British Michael Caine played an uncle from Texas, and his Texan drawl sounded perfect to my untrained ears. I wish you all great success in getting your language legally back. I think, but I'm not sure, that the Welsh have just recently won their native tongue back as the official language.
I am from Texas. I like Michael Caine, relatively speaking, but he has a really hard time sounding like anyone but Michael Caine. There were moments when he sounded vaguely American (forget Texan), but for the most part to natives he still sounded exceedingly British. Cockney, even. 😜 B+ for effort, though.
05:10 I can understand how a native speaker would have issues but for wider audience the scene seems very authentic and not patronizing. Thanks for review.
Interesting video you have made . Here is my take on the Pitt scenes with the Jamaican lady . While I,m not going to say Pitts version is perfect or legit . Have you ever gone to a store , rec centre , park etc and seen an older person of any ethnicity , and meet up with a stranger who can speak to them in their own language , and of the same era of speaking . Have you seen how their faces light up to find some one who speaks like they do ? . Its like they get to go home for a few minutes or found and old friend in some one they dont even know . For sure there are many different styles of speaking any language . But in the movie , the daughter is speaking an weak sounding American / Jamaican accent . While she may be Jamaican and she can talk to her mother , she cant really have that deep back home conversation with her Mother . Did you notice after realizing Pitt was Death , how she calmed down and slipped right into a deep conversation with him ? , just like she was back home or talking to an old friend ? . Dont take this the wrong way but your own accent sounds more like the valley girls from Sir Mixalots , I like big butts and I cannot Lie video . You would be able to speak with the old lady , but not really talk to her on her level . Another example , My wife of 31 years is a Trini , she came here in December of 1979 , and even tho her accent can sound a bit white washed from being here so long . I have heard many Trini,s say over the years , when she is having conversation with them , because she speaks in pre 1979 Trini , people say with a big smile , talking to you is like talking to my Granny . And that is what Pitts character did for the old lady in this movie . He gave her a few moments of home or kinship . I dont think his version of the accent is as important as the kindness he showed her in her last while being here . Its true it might not be a " perfect " Jamaican accent . But what is ? .
How do you know he didn't have a Jamaican coach? That's a rather bold assumption. I don't think the audience cares about the fine points you are making. But thanks for playing. And putting it in that victimhood narrative of Hollywood not concerned about the minority languages is typical. Not buying it. My late wife was Chinese. I learned Mandarin and always had an English accent. My wife always had a Chinese accent speaking English. Henry Kissinger always had a German accent speaking English. No amount of language coaches would change that.
I agree with you completely but I don’t think she had any ill-intentions when making her points. I’ve seen many linguists analyze the use of their language or the language they’re studying in film. What she’s doing is nothing new.
It's wonderful to see someone willing to get into the details and the weeds on something like this. Including how things should have sounded. Thank you so much!
Ok, well, he was playing a character playing dead, and they probably wanted to give the idea to the people watching he spoke every language, and a lot of people have accents speaking Spanish, English etc
As Death, they should have proper speaking. But him looking foreign, maybe the director wanted Brad to have a specific accent compared to to her, which knows and speaks like that. Ty for the knowledge and now I understand why you took interest in the Japanese language, that Ooh, to O... Is different. Brad is a different kind of actor, not just a pretty face. Snatch, is a great movie to see him performing a whole different accent/dialect/language.
I watched this with an interest. Languages fascinate me and I wanted to see something about this. This is one of my favorite movies and was the first movie where I saw Brad Pitt as not just a pretty boy actor, but as one who took the craft seriously. Accents can be difficult for non native speakers and Brad grew up in the Ozarks in Missouri, not far from where I grew up. People have mangled the Ozark Accents in roles, confusing it with a pure Southern or Appalachian accent. Brad probably had to overcome barriers to accomplish his neutral accent, then to feign a Jamacian is a step apart. Not being from the islands, I can get it, but I do understand it's a characture and not an accurate accent. I can give Brad credit for trying and like I said he really came of age as an actor here in this project breaking out of the mold, becoming an a-lister here. I do encounter a lot of the accent with people on my job. I do a fascination with Accents and I see it as a charactiure, and not a real accent.
I'm happy I found this video. I am just learning Patois, and out of curiosity, I wanted to see how Jamaicans felt about Brad's accent here. Because, as a non-Jamaican, he sounded .. I guess "Jamaican enough" lol The reactors I watched all, naturally, laughed it off, gave it a "0", one other gave it a "3/10", but nobody explained why. I thought maybe the terminology was wrong, because they all lost it at "Everyting gwaan be irie". So, I thought maybe "irie" wasn't a word.. then I learned, it was. So.. why were they all laughing and remarking how bad he sounded?? I'm happy to hear it was in the delivery. I can overlook someone who is not a native Patois speaker, learning from, presumably quick lessons from an opposing actress on set, not having a proper delivery. Good upload, thanks for sharing!
Great explanation. I'm Welsh and it's my first language. I can't count the times that I've seen actors massacre our accent and language, it makes your toes curl sometimes! Classic example is Elizibeth Taylor in Under Milk Wood.
For me, an American it is REALLY hard to distinguish between a Welsh accent and other British accents. It hasn't been very long since I even realized there IS a Welsh accent. But in my opinion the Welsh accent wins a prize for most agreeable and "fun" sound in all of Britain. I am descended from Welsh folks and I think in some way, when I hear Welsh folks speak, it feels like home to me. But what psychotic bunch of pranksters came up with the way Welsh words are spelled?
Your use of “makes your toes curl “ to express discomfort is baffling to me because in my experience it means downright orgasmic pleasure. I definitely feel your pain hearing bad accents in film and plays. I come from a wonderful sweet southern family but spent 40 years in Boston. In both areas you can travel 20 miles or less and hear very different accents but when you hear a bad one spoken it hurts!
Thank you for taking the time to really break it down. Found this video simply googling for a translation of the dialogue. As an opera singer, I have to sing different languages and I promise you, even with the smallest part, I always reach towards perfection. So, I know that Brad is sexy and famous, and the scene isn't exactly important to the plot of the movie, but it'd be nice if he did a better job. I love that scene, but always suspected something wasn't quite right about his accent. As a musician, I could definitely tell something was off key, if you will, with the the musicality of his phrasing. I expected to find at least one other comment from another Jamaican, besides yourself, that would corroborate or add to your observations. Would have also loved to hear comments from others in your field of linguistics. Instead, of course, lots of individuals unnecessarily offended. Just as a musician will wince when a performer sings the wrong notes, so will those whose native tongue is being butchered by someone trying to mimic it. Its just a nature response, and the faces you make when you hear his accent say it all. Good stuff!
I appreciate you so much! Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. This was my most requested breakdown after I did the one on the Jamaican language scene in Marvel's Luke Cage. I LOVE movies, and I get excited when our language is spoken in them! When its use is off/ bad however, and it takes you out of the scene or is such complete gibberish, you need subtitles, it gets comical. I live in Japan, and if the Japanese did something similar with English, people would lose it. However, I get the distinct impression that despite there being so little effort put into speaking our Jamaican language, we're expected to be grateful that an effort was made at all...
I’ve definitely heard worse on movies. and I’ve seen Jamaican plays where they over do the accent for comedic effect. My Brad did a fine job...considering he was completely committed to that scene and probably so far out his comfort zone. I loved this movie. What an interesting concept.
I was raised in the rural northern part of the United States and at 26 I took a job in a deep southern city where I worked closely with African Americans for over 20 years. Eventually I realized that I had become fluent in Ebonics that I spoke at work, even with other Whites. After retirement I moved back up north and to this day, I find myself still using some Ebonics words.
Thanks so much for this detailed analysis! As someone who worked for local government services in areas with big Afro-Caribbean communities, I prided myself on being able to follow even the broadest patios...although of course as a white British fella I'd never dream of being so disrespectful as to try speaking it (yes I do know there are white yardies, before someone points that out)! I doubt Mr. Pitt would have fooled me with a telephone prank using this accent, and it was informative to have it explained to me exactly where he went wrong. I already knew that real Jamaican people rarely say "irie" in casual conversation, and the "gonna" thing would probably have red-flagged to me as well, 'cos that's mainly north American slang. I will say one thing about Mr. Pitt though, he did nail the Irish traveller accent in Snatch, if not perfectly then still better than anyone else in a mainstream movie. So the man does do his research, this just sadly isn't the best example...
I love the breakdown. I just rewatched this movie recently, and I love Brad Pitt in this movie. I definitely think that they purposely changed some of the sentence structure and words so that it would be easier for audiences to understand what is being said. There have been quite a few times when I've heard someone speaking Jamaican English/with a Jamaican accent and I have trouble understanding half of what they're saying. Especially if they speak quickly.
I saw somewhere once he learned about this scene he took lessons from a linguist to make the scene more real. And then he developed a nice bond with the lady and eventually paid for her funeral.
I spent long time in Tobago, i m Italian and learned english from scratch there, was a sailor and definitely not a linguist :). What i hear is very similar to Tobagonian especially the "airi" thing. A major difference, pronoun I is said Ma. High pitching in dialogue is less marked but ever present and vowels less elongated. Obeahs aren 't the major boogeyman in the island. Thanks a lot for this video!
In this take he speaks a phrase that in Brazil only the African language brought here, but it has not been used for over 100 years, he says to her "vossuncê" which was the same as "your mercy" It was and is heard or heard a lot here in Brazil in terreiro de candomblé
I really liked these scenes, they were the best scenes in the movie. Since I'm no Jamaican accent expert, the only thing I can draw upon is when British actors do an American accent. I feel if they stay in character and try their best, I usually give it a pass so it doesn't take me out of the film. I'm glad you maintained a professional distance, it would've been easy to make jokes, and like I said, I really like these scenes. Thank you.
Meet Joe Black is one of the best most beautiful movies of all time. But did you know it's a remake? Of a movie called "Death takes a holiday." In fact in this scene he tells her that hes on holiday lol
@@RossIsFine I haven't, but I did watch The Preacher's Wife starring Denzel Washington and Whitney Houston wayyyy back in the day. You sound like quite the old film connoisseur!
omg, I love that bit in the film, even if I do end up in tears!... so interesting. though I would like to think of it as maybe an 'Older' version of the language? It's like I'm from Yorkshire in the UK, and we have about 10 diffrent accents in just this part of England. and that not counting OLD old Yorkshire that even I struggle to understand... BUT. my point is. in my Yorkshire accent we NEVER say 'The', like "I'm going to the shop." it would be "M' gonn T shop" (sometime we dont even say the hard T. but, the rest of the UK think the hard 'T' = the, and it doesnt it = 'to'... I figured we dont say 'the' when I was watching a comedian taking the piss out of a Yorkshire accent, and he said "T lion, T witch and T wardrobe!".. and my brain came sreaching to a holt. I've always called it "Lion, Wich un Wardrobe." the 'un' being more a gutteral noise, and no T in witch, more pronounced 'Which' Arck, sorry for rant, but I now how it is when ppl get your accent wrong, after all, also being British, we have to deal with american bitchering our accents XD
Maybe death/ Brad Pitt only visited Jamaican vacation and didn’t have time to pick up the full pronunciation. So death kinda wings it with what he gots ;)
Irie is a slang from the yester-years kept alive by the tourism industry. Normal modern Jamaicans can live their whole lives never saying that word, lol
Yeah, they would only hire a linguist if the accent was for a central part of the story/film, and they would only have him seriously practice it if it was a central part of his character, because time is money and money is time. Both of which are at a premium for film sets. So this was probably and instance of "Hey Brad, we want Joe to meet a Jamaican woman who he befriends and you will have two scenes with her, please learn the Jamaican accent for those two scenes". And then its up to the actor/Brad Pitt to do as much or as little research on his own as he can. His character wasnt Jamaican, so there would be no justification to put any time and money into him learning the accent for two scenes with a minor character. So he probably listened to a few tapes/watched a few videos and maaaybe talked to a few people, and then when they filmed she helped him as much as she could. And then you have to compound it with the fact that maybe there were takes where he did a more accurate job but they didnt use it for one reason or another or directed him to do it in a way that wasnt accurate but was more of what they wanted. I think that the instance of "iree" and his over-emphasizing that word was more of a directing choice, to make it so that Joe was trying to comfort her. So I think what they did was they used "iree" in place of "everything is going to be fine!" which could be said in a more emphasized tone because if he had said it in the more casual tone, while it would have been more correct, to American audiences it might have come off as too casual.
Great video and analysis. You should do more. Very informative and enjoyable. Lois Kelly-Miller stole the show with her excellent acting. BP doesn't have the experience and talent LKM has....what a performance!
Thank you so much for this. I guess the question is, is this a case of lack of effort and consideration for the accent, or an honest attempt to represent it that fell short because of a lack of practice or ability? From what you’ve said it seems to me like an attempt was made, but it still falls short. That seems better than many of the overblown stereotypical impersonations that are found elsewhere. Would love to see a tier-list vid!
Fascinating video, thanks. But as an English speaking Englishman I have to say, that there is also an excruciating trail of debris along the road between Hollywood and the convincing English accent. Going back the other way is as bad. I have family and friends across the globe (including Japan). We all tend to crash land some words and phrases from each other’s dialects. To me that is a natural and inevitable part of a relaxed conversation. I could tell a bunch of stories that I’m sure you would identify with about speaking French or English or American or Indian English. The question I want to ask is ‘What is the character trying to do?’ He recognises the very wonderful Lois Kelly-Miller as Jamaican and tries to make her feel at ease. I don’t think he’s trying to be Jamaican. The clangers are a natural part of that. I don’t know if thay changed the character arc for Scott Baluka in NCIS New Orleans, but his accent initially made ME wince. When it was clarified that he was from out of state but loved being in the city, his mash-up made sense. For 35 years I have lived with an American in the UK. She still sounds American to me, but she sounds English to the friends she was at school with. It’s a mix. Thank you for sharing how good Brad Pitt was. But it’s a rare actor that can nail an accent that different to their own. Don’t sweat it, there will always be Dick Van Dyke in Marry Poppins.
I appreciate the intention of judging how well Brad Pitt spoke with a Jamaican accent, but I think it over-analyzes the intention of the film maker, but that is just my opinion. I think the film does quite well what was intended, that death, or the grim reaper, would be able to speak to the nearly departed in their own language/dialect to help make them less anxious; in essence, death was not obeah man, he was simply the escort into "the next place" as Joe Black asserted. A sweet scene in a very good movie, almost a great movie, were it not for the heavy handed corporate takeover subplot which was just necessary to take Drew out of the picture (Yay! Drew is evil, therefore Susan is still virtuous).
![Tee Grizzley - Detroit (Feat. 42 Dugg) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aeKfTtt0x14/mqdefault.jpg)
As a Jamaican, born, raised and living in Jamaica... I appreciated his accent. He did good. Obviously he doesn't sound authentically Jamaican because he's not, the biggest thing I sentence structure isn't how we would speak naturally but I get that the international audience also needs to understand. And we don't use the word irie in casual conversation. But I liked it.
Yes, I feel like you may be right, but I really have a couple of different problems with this analyses:
1) Joe Black is also foreign to English, he is other worldly and his syntax isn't always the most normal through the movie, it works to distinguish him from the humans
2) The creator seems gleeful in her criticism, dare I say disparaging?
3) "caricature" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable is something I have never heard before. Unique, interesting
4) My favorite expression from a Jamaican was : "Chingauo" which is Spanish "chingada" learned from native Vietnamese speakers. She used it to show excitement at a fireworks display. Language is fun sometimes.
@@craigthomas2497weird that you got "disparaging" from the creator
It was a good attempt for a white boy😮
He did well how many foreigners can do that ..
Yes he’s not Jamaican so what you expect
As a non Jamaican, I can't speak to the accuracy of his dialect or accent, but as a anglo I can tell you that Joe Black very much wasn't 'all there' in english either. I think his character's point is that no matter what language he's speaking, he's 'Other'. He's wrong in some way. And that's because he's the literal Angel of Death. He's this entity wearing a human, so no matter what language he speaks, he's alien.
Yeah… this is it. I made my comment before I read yours. Well put.
Bingo!
@@tommiegirl2441 Yes, you were spot on.
Not all a we died badda Don. Some a we still deh pon di rock same way a plant corn
Corect
I realize it probably wasn't real authentic to a Jamaican, but it was passable to me. I thought it was one of the most poignant, fascinating scenes in the movie. Here was Death, the Grim Reaper, and this Jamaican lady immediately recognized him for who he was. He knew it, but still patiently tried to ease her fear and anxiety, and lovingly helped her pass when it was time. I truly understand how a native speaker might cringe at the dialog, but I think the scenes' messages were what was important.
Well you gotta keep in mind, Brad Pitts character is playing Death, So while yes Death should know the language cause well its Death and its been around since the dawn of time BUT its Death so hes or its going to say things with a bit more and this might not be the best word but "mystical" or prolonged way cause as death its talking to a being it doesnt see as its equal, lesser or greater. So imo its like it (Brad) was slowing or prolonging words to be easier on Lois Kelly-Millers character cause well its a human being that realizes shes in the presence of like the actual Death.
But thats just my take on it lol
@@eightfold189 That's a great point! His English speech wasn't exactly normal, either. For example, if a Finnish actor was playing an average American guy and he sounded like Brad Pitt in this movie, I'd have criticisms too. Joe is an angel trying to act human, but he's still an alien being so he misses the mark a lot.
Brad Pitt: *says Irie*
Old lady: “don’t leave me alone with him!”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You? Realise real Jamaicans are dead and weren’t black they were Indian.
@@VictorLugosi ok, what does that have to do with Brad Pitt doing a terrible accent and the old lady not wanting to be alone with him?
Sorry if I sounded rude, when I asked that, but I’m legitimately confused about why that was relevant.
@@VictorLugosi Take your pills, man. You're slipping.
@@VictorLugosi
They weren't "Indian." They were natives. These native people had two names which historians usually go by: Arawak and Taíno. If you're gonna be a pedant with a strawman, then please, at the very least, just get your facts straight.
I think the “mistakes” in the pronunciation aren’t due to a lack of linguistics expertise, but rather slight changes to some words to make them more understandable to the general audience. Otherwise, it would be very hard for the average non-Jamaican speaker to follow the dialogue
I mean they could have had subtitles I guess.
Other than that I cant speak to the accuracy since I have absolutely no idea about the correct pronounciation/grammar so I defer to the experts😂
What I did like is the concept itself. Of Death or the Reaper speaking your language/dialect.
I think its criminally underused.
In general the idea of a kind reaper is just so underused!
I would love more movies and shows that portray death as sad, yes, but not an evil thing.
Perhaps, but the actual Jamaican lady already made an adjustment in her accent for that. Brad's accent was good though but it was just a little off in terms of cadence and Pronunciation which is typical of North Americans per se. Very hard to describe because the distinction is so subtle. The fact that his English is also loopy means the screenwriting corrected for these scenes and seems to balance out the rest of the movie nicely
I guess they didn't have a Jamaican Linguist on set but it was still a convincing enough performance to anyone who doesn't speak Jamaican
It was REALLY bad
Its the same way with Hollywood film when they try to sound African like Black Panther, Coming to America etc The so called African accent they protray sounds awful to the ears of an African person. But they don't care to get it right. ... As long as the Americans don't notice, they are fine
It's kinda frustrating how much hate he gets for it. It was literally like 20 seconds of a 2 hour movie. I could understand if it was the entire film. Also, nobody @ me 😂. I was born and raised in Kingston which wasn't always great because I'm Irish and my parents are white.
I wonder if an English actor for instance has ever done a Southern accent in a movie and really messed it up? I guess the problem with that is there would be plenty of Americans to make sure the vocabulary and pronunciation were correct. But if it was a British production, who knows? Benny Hill did some bad southern accents just to be funny.
@@craftsandstuff3349 plenty of people ragging on Emma Watson's American English in Perks of Being a Wallflower, and Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch's in their MCU appearances. Learning another language is hard, but learning another accent, even if only enough for a movie role, is arguably much more difficult.
Something I noticed about Jamaica during my first trip to the island as a “My Fair Lady” obsessed teenager was that there isn’t one static accent that everyone has. You listen to the radio (at least in 2003) and you’d hear a crisp British accent with only wisps of Jamaican in the corners, you’d speak to a doctor in a rich neighborhood and he’d have what sounded closer to what I had expected Jamaican to sound like as an American but still different like guava jelly on a pb&j, then you wind your way up into the bush and people are speaking with an English so thick it rivals the humidity. I was fascinated. I think something that’s really important to remember when talking about this is how much socioeconomics and geography factor into this discussion. It’s a tiny island, but it’s as diverse as anything I’ve found in my home state of New York.
Another thing that affects this specific example is how filmmaking works (yeah, I’ve spent a collective few months in Jamaica and also went to film school in California, I felt compelled to post a comment). You have the original script-writer who may or may not know anything about what they’re writing about who comes up with the original dialogue for the film. Maybe they chose Jamaican because there was a Miss Cleo ad they heard earlier and they wrote it with Sebastian the crab’s voice. A director gets ahold of this and takes it to an actor and maybe lets them play around with the words that are written, maybe not. I suspect that in this case, Martin Brest and Brad Pitt probably really did want to make this authentic and asked Lois Kelly-Miller to help. Or she took one look at the script, laughed really hard, and helped the poor clueless white boy out. However, the actor doesn’t have final say, and neither does the director really. On the day of shooting you have a person called the Script Supervisor who has to make sure everything on the script is shot exactly as written on the paper at least once, and then that person has to take notes and document everything that was changed and which take changed what. Shooting just one of these two scenes might have taken an entire eight hour day, and if they pushed it and shot both scenes it definitely did. Brad had (worst case scenario, no accent coach) 8 hours to learn from Lois and give his best shot at this incredibly nuanced foreign language while cameras are rolling picking up every attempt along the way. The script sup. makes a note about which take is the best one, but then hands those notes off to the next person - an editor. In addition to choosing how the words sound the editor is also looking at how the actors performed each take and everything else that’s going on in the frame. Maybe they have one take where Brad Pitt absolutely nailed the accent, but he moved his arm weird and his jacket rucked up a little and that looked awkward so they went with the take right before he nailed it because the editor couldn’t tell the difference and they prioritized the jacked arm thing. Finally this all goes to a (or more likely a few) producers who are trying to see the film from the point of view of the average (read: dumbest) audience member. If something doesn’t make sense to them or they don’t like it, then the editor has to change it. If they want to have an over-annunciated “Aaaiiiiiiirrrreeeeeee” because they think it’s more “Jamaican” then that’s what we get.
Tl;dr: There probably is a theoretical version of these scenes were Brad Pitt absolutely nailed every aspect of the accent (he’s really quite good at most of it, as was pointed out in the video). Then the probably clueless American script sup. director, editor, and producers made changes and we’re lucky to have what we’ve got.
I’m not a film or accent person but I kind of sussed this while watching the analysis. Yes, it makes sense.
I asked a Jamaican coworker of mine about these scenes and she said one or two of the colloquialisms or phrases he used sounded more Trinidadian than Jamaican
He played a minority in snatch and got our language spot on, much respect to Mr.pitt
that was great.
What minority did he play? What I miss? He played a helluva role in snatch...but damn sure looked like a white man/Caucasian whatever you wanna call him to me
Traveller. @@thurmondcaldwell5482
@@thurmondcaldwell5482 'pikeys' or irish travellers are an ethnic minority in ireland and the UK. Still white but ethnically and culterally different from the majority.
@mikhailborgachov7512 my man 💪 got it appreciate the explanation
I am a real linguist. And, while Brad Pitt's crack at the Jamaican accent may not have been perfect, it was close enough to get the job done. And this YaadPikni says why, at one point in her piece. The actress playing the mother is (or was, because I believe she may be dead now) a very famous Jamaican actress. And she was helping Brad get this right. She had just as much of stake in that as he did. So, I'd say its close enough. And we can give them a break because of the wonderful strains of Thomas Newman's (Uncle of Randy Newman) music, both here and through the entire movie.
how cool...did not know the music was Randy N's uncle.
Her name was Lois Kelly Miller and was established for her work in Jamaican theatre. She died April 2020.
I think she was close to 100 years old when she passed. Is that right?@@KristineMaitland
@@goffredo29 102. It's mentioned in the video.
He put in a ton of work for 10 minutes of screen time. He did the work which is amazing.
The beauty of this scene is that death is universal and knows us all no matter where we're from. Also showed that death can be a mercy when someone is in pain. In the end when he said soon it was almost loving.
That was really cool. I never saw this movie yet but I saw the scenes of Brad Pitt speaking in a Jamaican English accent and it intrigued me. Your analysis was really cool and appreciated. Many keen Native English speakers that have been around many parts of the US and the World can really point out accents where people are from but having a native speaker is very helpful. Looks like Brad did pretty good to adapt as an actor.
I need to watch this movie. It looks fascinating. I love Brad Pitt..
I think his accent was fine for someone who doesn’t speak it naturally
Im not Jamaican but personally i don't see any problem with it because he's not trying to be Jamaican in the movie he's just trying to talk with a Jamaican accent
Probably to help ease the worry of a sick old lady. All he claimed is that he's spent some time in the islands.
i know it may not have been perfect but the scenes with Lois are the best scenes of this entire movie....she plays such a good part and this scene is wonderful....i'm from the South and that's how we feel too when people try to talk southern....its so forcing it like its cartooney
Well, ah declare!
Apropos to that, I wonder how well Gone with the Wind fared with the Georgian accent?
As a Brit I feel the same when an American does a flat cockney accent in an attempt to sound British... weird thing is, Jason Statham is one of the worst offenders:)
This is one of the greatest scenes of any movie anywhere whatsoever and as such it it stands far above any form of criticism.
This was really interesting! I love when he’s sitting by her bed just nodding and not speaking the most actually…I love how they’re looking at each other. Thanks for breaking this down for us!
Anytime! Thanks for watching and commenting
I really wish that book was available!! I appreciate your videos so much. I am Jamaican and also knew right away Brad’s Pitt’s accent while it may have been the best he could do, we wouldn’t pronounce that line like that 😂. Thank you for your work in letting it be known that Jamaican Patois is indeed a language.
The problem here is that it is Brad Pitt that is speaking Jamican. We know he is not Jamaican. But even English among English-speaking nations will have a different intonations and even to some extent pronunciation. If Brad Pitt was Jamaican, no one will fault him from being off in speaking some Jamiacan words.
I was on a holiday 3 years back. Where i stayed, Was a bar was next door. The employees were mostly 21-30 year old real Jamaican women. They gave me countless tips for when i visit the island. However till that point i could not even google a good answer for Obeah / Obia. Those lovely women helped explain it to me. So i have extra appreciation for this video. You explaining it, maybe even over simplifying it for the general public. Then the Granny i think would come by time to time telling them get back to work. They would end up bickering a bit. Perhaps in creole?? I could not make out a word they said, And i am very good with accents even real thick ones.
That's so cute! Was the grandma the owner of the bar? If you couldn't understand them, it's very likely they were speaking in creole. Glad you found my obeah explanation helpful!
Great reaction.
My ex was from Kingston and when we watched this he said that they should went for a straight Jamaican script for Pitt and subbed in English instead of the Jamaican- American English mix sentence. A for effort. RIP Lois Miller.
Nice breakdown. Frankly it sounded fine to me with little exposure to Jamaican language which I suppose is the point.
I'm Scottish so I've learnt a long time ago to let piss poor attempts at Scottish accents in movies slide. Most people think that we have 1 accent which is just crazy, it depends on where you come from and, being a small country, the accents can change from town to town never mind region to region. doric, lallands, etc. Etc.
Anyway minor rant aside to my ear the Jamaican accent is musical and pleasant to listen to.
Wouldn't this be more analogous to a character in a movie who isn't meant to be Scottish but is meant to be fluently speaking Scots?
98% of the people who watched this don't know if the Jamaican languages is butchered or not, which it wasn't, just slight nuances. They are enjoying a good moment in the movie. This was a good movie, and had many fine moments.
The Jamaican language was totally butchered.
It’s so bad it prompts immediate laughter. It’s really cringe.
@@autumnjade815 No, it doesn't. Grow up.
@@FirstLast-yc9lq If you knew anything about the Jamaican accent, you would be laughing too!
I love Brad. He's a great actor. But he definitely did one of the worst Jamaican accents I've her in entertainment.
It's the truth. Deal with it.
@@autumnjade815 You can know about accents, but you also need to understand acting - accents aren't easy, some are far more difficult than others especially depending on your native language. You're also not going to spend a ton of time mastering the accent for something you do for a few lines in a 3 hour movie. Again, this is why I say....you need to grow up. Also, he wasn't JUST doing an accent here - he was also adding in a playful snark while dropping his persona and going back to death.
Also if you're going to be a perpetually online guy, do a bit of research rather than laughing. That's where this conversation will end.
I wish Hollywood would take more time to be authentic no matter the language, culture, or customs.
Thank you for your breakdown and knowledge. I have always loved this movie and always wondered how true to the language he was.
I also just learned that Lois Kelly Miller passed on. What a treasure.
I love all accents and have one too, my ex husband was from Egypt my son adopted from Russia and my family all Irish! I feel accents makes us interesting and everyone should b proud of their backgrounds. The Jamaican accent is just as beautiful as all the rest !☘️
I have always enjoyed the joyfulness of the Jamaican language. It sounds peaceful to me. That was my fav part of the movie. Enjoyed this well done video.
And yet, it remains the best part of the movie.
She is an absolutely amazing actress as it is evident in this matter, plus she lived until 102? I am intrigued, really wanna check her movie career.
Thank you so much for that. I love those accents. I’ve lived in coastal South Carolina my whole life. My friends here are Gullah and they speak Geechee. It’s nowhere near as hard as Creole or Patois (in my Caucasian opinion) and I understand it much better. I wouldn’t ever attempt to try to speak it though. God bless.
My absolute pleasure, William! Like the Jamaican language, Gullah is an English-based creole, and while watching a few videos on it, I was able to understand most everything being said without needing to look at the subtitles. The speakers were speaking slowly though, so the true test will be listening to native speakers having a conversation entirely in Gullah. Thanks for reminding me about such a beautiful language!
I love language and I love your explaining. Thank you for making this!
Yah mon a true and mi to and mi gone yah mon.h🙏🏽😇🥰
FJ and Ericka, thanks so much! Happy you both enjoyed it.
I really appreciated this video. I was mesmerized watching the clip of the first scene for obvious reasons (having not seen the movie), so it’s interesting to see an explanation of what the movie and Pitt get wrong or right.
I really appreciated this analysis, with its descriptiveness and detail, the "not this, but that" specificity. It elevates it from how some describe it as if it were mere opinion or 'gut feel' and nails it down point by point.
I'm from the southern US, and have cringed over the years at actors playing southern roles, who sound like they never heard our accent at all, as if they're reading it phonetically from a page, or worse, making up how they imagine it sounds. They sound like the southern equivalent of Hugh Grant in _Mickey Blue Eyes (1999)_ trying (and failing) to say 'Fuhgeddaboudit' like an NYC mobster. Your precise descriptions would have cleared it right up for him!
Oh, and how about that Lois Kelly-Miller! She's beautiful! What a talent! I'm somewhat a student of facial expressions, and hers were spot-on! One moment in particular, when Death takes her, she sighs out her last breath and relaxes her head slightly to the side, her facial muscles then appear to 'deflate' somehow, as if no longer plumped up by blood pressure. She literally empties all expression (and, seemingly, fluid volume) from her face! How's she do that? Phenomenal actress!
Somehow I missed your comment. I'm glad you liked the analysis, and thanks for the feedback!
I Was raised around Jamaicans and West Indies / Caribbean culture is a major part of my early childhood, I could never put a finger on exactly why Pitt's performance sounded weird to me, just that it was off. Thank you for breaking it down.
Jane here. I knew nothing about the movie before seeing your video. What a lovely lady. Her accent was very relaxed. Perhaps Brad Pitt just needed a bit more time rehearsing his accent until it was flawless.
I remember the very British Michael Caine played an uncle from Texas, and his Texan drawl sounded perfect to my untrained ears. I wish you all great success in getting your language legally back. I think, but I'm not sure, that the Welsh have just recently won their native tongue back as the official language.
I am from Texas. I like Michael Caine, relatively speaking, but he has a really hard time sounding like anyone but Michael Caine. There were moments when he sounded vaguely American (forget Texan), but for the most part to natives he still sounded exceedingly British. Cockney, even. 😜 B+ for effort, though.
05:10 I can understand how a native speaker would have issues but for wider audience the scene seems very authentic and not patronizing. Thanks for review.
This is amazing and I learned so much! Thank you for sharing your warmth as nd knowledge with us!
So happy you enjoyed it!
Interesting video you have made . Here is my take on the Pitt scenes with the Jamaican lady . While I,m not going to say Pitts version is perfect or legit . Have you ever gone to a store , rec centre , park etc and seen an older person of any ethnicity , and meet up with a stranger who can speak to them in their own language , and of the same era of speaking . Have you seen how their faces light up to find some one who speaks like they do ? . Its like they get to go home for a few minutes or found and old friend in some one they dont even know .
For sure there are many different styles of speaking any language . But in the movie , the daughter is speaking an weak sounding American / Jamaican accent . While she may be Jamaican and she can talk to her mother , she cant really have that deep back home conversation with her Mother . Did you notice after realizing Pitt was Death , how she calmed down and slipped right into a deep conversation with him ? , just like she was back home or talking to an old friend ? . Dont take this the wrong way but your own accent sounds more like the valley girls from Sir Mixalots , I like big butts and I cannot Lie video . You would be able to speak with the old lady , but not really talk to her on her level . Another example , My wife of 31 years is a Trini , she came here in December of 1979 , and even tho her accent can sound a bit white washed from being here so long . I have heard many Trini,s say over the years , when she is having conversation with them , because she speaks in pre 1979 Trini , people say with a big smile , talking to you is like talking to my Granny . And that is what Pitts character did for the old lady in this movie . He gave her a few moments of home or kinship . I dont think his version of the accent is as important as the kindness he showed her in her last while being here . Its true it might not be a " perfect " Jamaican accent . But what is ? .
Brad Pitt doesn't have to be perfect, but Death does.
Thank you for making such an insightful and informative video- I loved learning from your in-depth analysis and information. Keep it up!
From what I have read and learned, his Patois was good enough to be able to get around the Islands.
How do you know he didn't have a Jamaican coach? That's a rather bold assumption. I don't think the audience cares about the fine points you are making. But thanks for playing.
And putting it in that victimhood narrative of Hollywood not concerned about the minority languages is typical. Not buying it.
My late wife was Chinese. I learned Mandarin and always had an English accent. My wife always had a Chinese accent speaking English. Henry Kissinger always had a German accent speaking English.
No amount of language coaches would change that.
I agree with you completely but I don’t think she had any ill-intentions when making her points. I’ve seen many linguists analyze the use of their language or the language they’re studying in film. What she’s doing is nothing new.
I suspect that his pronunciation was designed to be understandable to the main audience, from the US.
He sounds more Jamaican than you 😂🎉
You never told us anything about what he said. You just analyzed his pronunciation.
It's wonderful to see someone willing to get into the details and the weeds on something like this. Including how things should have sounded. Thank you so much!
Appreciate he actually showed the language and the culture hes trying. Not many movies show the language
Yeah I’m pretty sure they didn’t hire him because of his world renowned Jamaican accent…
Very very interested, I love different languages 😍, it's amazing how how people can teach other languages,
Ok, well, he was playing a character playing dead, and they probably wanted to give the idea to the people watching he spoke every language, and a lot of people have accents speaking Spanish, English etc
As Death, they should have proper speaking. But him looking foreign, maybe the director wanted Brad to have a specific accent compared to to her, which knows and speaks like that. Ty for the knowledge and now I understand why you took interest in the Japanese language, that Ooh, to O... Is different.
Brad is a different kind of actor, not just a pretty face. Snatch, is a great movie to see him performing a whole different accent/dialect/language.
I watched this with an interest. Languages fascinate me and I wanted to see something about this. This is one of my favorite movies and was the first movie where I saw Brad Pitt as not just a pretty boy actor, but as one who took the craft seriously. Accents can be difficult for non native speakers and Brad grew up in the Ozarks in Missouri, not far from where I grew up. People have mangled the Ozark Accents in roles, confusing it with a pure Southern or Appalachian accent. Brad probably had to overcome barriers to accomplish his neutral accent, then to feign a Jamacian is a step apart. Not being from the islands, I can get it, but I do understand it's a characture and not an accurate accent. I can give Brad credit for trying and like I said he really came of age as an actor here in this project breaking out of the mold, becoming an a-lister here. I do encounter a lot of the accent with people on my job. I do a fascination with Accents and I see it as a charactiure, and not a real accent.
I'm happy I found this video. I am just learning Patois, and out of curiosity, I wanted to see how Jamaicans felt about Brad's accent here.
Because, as a non-Jamaican, he sounded .. I guess "Jamaican enough" lol
The reactors I watched all, naturally, laughed it off, gave it a "0", one other gave it a "3/10", but nobody explained why.
I thought maybe the terminology was wrong, because they all lost it at "Everyting gwaan be irie". So, I thought maybe "irie" wasn't a word.. then I learned, it was. So.. why were they all laughing and remarking how bad he sounded??
I'm happy to hear it was in the delivery. I can overlook someone who is not a native Patois speaker, learning from, presumably quick lessons from an opposing actress on set, not having a proper delivery. Good upload, thanks for sharing!
Happy you found it informative!
I'm Jamaican,sound ok to me
Great explanation. I'm Welsh and it's my first language. I can't count the times that I've seen actors massacre our accent and language, it makes your toes curl sometimes! Classic example is Elizibeth Taylor in Under Milk Wood.
May I ask, is Welsh now officially the first language of Wales?
@@Orpilorp it has equal legal status.
For me, an American it is REALLY hard to distinguish between a Welsh accent and other British accents. It hasn't been very long since I even realized there IS a Welsh accent. But in my opinion the Welsh accent wins a prize for most agreeable and "fun" sound in all of Britain. I am descended from Welsh folks and I think in some way, when I hear Welsh folks speak, it feels like home to me. But what psychotic bunch of pranksters came up with the way Welsh words are spelled?
Don't forget that one of Taylor's husbands was Richard Burton who I believe was Welsh.
Your use of “makes your toes curl “ to express discomfort is baffling to me because in my experience it means downright orgasmic pleasure. I definitely feel your pain hearing bad accents in film and plays. I come from a wonderful sweet southern family but spent 40 years in Boston. In both areas you can travel 20 miles or less and hear very different accents but when you hear a bad one spoken it hurts!
He’s a actor playing apart! Think about if it was you coming up with a foreign dialect for a part.
Thank you for taking the time to really break it down. Found this video simply googling for a translation of the dialogue. As an opera singer, I have to sing different languages and I promise you, even with the smallest part, I always reach towards perfection. So, I know that Brad is sexy and famous, and the scene isn't exactly important to the plot of the movie, but it'd be nice if he did a better job. I love that scene, but always suspected something wasn't quite right about his accent. As a musician, I could definitely tell something was off key, if you will, with the the musicality of his phrasing. I expected to find at least one other comment from another Jamaican, besides yourself, that would corroborate or add to your observations. Would have also loved to hear comments from others in your field of linguistics. Instead, of course, lots of individuals unnecessarily offended. Just as a musician will wince when a performer sings the wrong notes, so will those whose native tongue is being butchered by someone trying to mimic it. Its just a nature response, and the faces you make when you hear his accent say it all. Good stuff!
I appreciate you so much! Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. This was my most requested breakdown after I did the one on the Jamaican language scene in Marvel's Luke Cage.
I LOVE movies, and I get excited when our language is spoken in them! When its use is off/ bad however, and it takes you out of the scene or is such complete gibberish, you need subtitles, it gets comical.
I live in Japan, and if the Japanese did something similar with English, people would lose it. However, I get the distinct impression that despite there being so little effort put into speaking our Jamaican language, we're expected to be grateful that an effort was made at all...
I still have trouble making out what they are saying. Could you give a summary of both scenes?
I think Pitt did great considering he's playing Death stuck in a Yankee from New Yorks body.
I’ve definitely heard worse on movies. and I’ve seen Jamaican plays where they over do the accent for comedic effect. My Brad did a fine job...considering he was completely committed to that scene and probably so far out his comfort zone. I loved this movie. What an interesting concept.
You realize it's a movie, all fantasy! Enough said!
Been to Jamaica many times and love Mandeville!
Not jamaican.. i think he did a damn good job. But as a celtic viking pagan i have my own issues when people mispronounce my languages.. cheers
I was raised in the rural northern part of the United States and at 26 I took a job in a deep southern city where I worked closely with African Americans for over 20 years. Eventually I realized that I had become fluent in Ebonics that I spoke at work, even with other Whites. After retirement I moved back up north and to this day, I find myself still using some Ebonics words.
He’s Death not Jamaican …. Not supposed to be accurate , check box marked OTHER
Yes, Thomas Newman, who does the music in this movie, is Randy Newman's uncle.
Konnichiwa
Thank for the wonderful video-great explanations. I love language, its history and its culture of the language. Thank you.
ありがとうございました。I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
So what exactly does Raatid mean?
Rhaatid can mean either “D*mn” or “H€!1”
20 years ago when you was...3? 😐
I wonder what the character Joe black actually said to the old lady in that scene?
thank god this scene came before the "culture appropiation" bullshit, its a really nice scene
Thanks so much for this detailed analysis! As someone who worked for local government services in areas with big Afro-Caribbean communities, I prided myself on being able to follow even the broadest patios...although of course as a white British fella I'd never dream of being so disrespectful as to try speaking it (yes I do know there are white yardies, before someone points that out)! I doubt Mr. Pitt would have fooled me with a telephone prank using this accent, and it was informative to have it explained to me exactly where he went wrong. I already knew that real Jamaican people rarely say "irie" in casual conversation, and the "gonna" thing would probably have red-flagged to me as well, 'cos that's mainly north American slang.
I will say one thing about Mr. Pitt though, he did nail the Irish traveller accent in Snatch, if not perfectly then still better than anyone else in a mainstream movie. So the man does do his research, this just sadly isn't the best example...
Honestly I didn’t think it was supposed to be perfect.
We will also say "mi" in place of "I".
Nice! What country/ language?
Love to hear a discussion of Whoopi Goldberg's accent in the movie Clara's Heart, since she took on that persona for the whole film.
I have always been fascinated by the Latin-speaking scenes in Man for all Seasons. I wonder how accurate the Latin was.
i think raatid was a vulgar expletive of surprise or disgust, as in "raatid!". It's probably a polite permutation of "ras", a la "gosh" or "heck.
First you wanna go now you wanna stay RIP beautiful lady legends never die diamonds are forever xxx
Indeed. RIP Lady Kelly-Miller
I love the breakdown. I just rewatched this movie recently, and I love Brad Pitt in this movie.
I definitely think that they purposely changed some of the sentence structure and words so that it would be easier for audiences to understand what is being said. There have been quite a few times when I've heard someone speaking Jamaican English/with a Jamaican accent and I have trouble understanding half of what they're saying. Especially if they speak quickly.
I think all the Jamaicans complaining and making fun of Brad's accent are just wrong. He should be given credit for even attempting it.
That's the point that's like someone from America speaking French or German or any other foreign language it's going to have an American accent
It sounds like a mix of Irish and Jamaican
I saw somewhere once he learned about this scene he took lessons from a linguist to make the scene more real. And then he developed a nice bond with the lady and eventually paid for her funeral.
I spent long time in Tobago, i m Italian and learned english from scratch there, was a sailor and definitely not a linguist :). What i hear is very similar to Tobagonian especially the "airi" thing. A major difference, pronoun I is said Ma. High pitching in dialogue is less marked but ever present and vowels less elongated. Obeahs aren 't the major boogeyman in the island. Thanks a lot for this video!
The only thing funnier than this clip is you doing Brad doing “ireeeeee”!
Para una persona que no habla el dialecto.. quedo muy buena la escena 👌..la mejor diagolo con un obeah
In this take he speaks a phrase that in Brazil only the African language brought here, but it has not been used for over 100 years, he says to her "vossuncê" which was the same as "your mercy" It was and is heard or heard a lot here in Brazil in terreiro de candomblé
Oh wow! What's the timestamp for when he said it?
I really liked these scenes, they were the best scenes in the movie. Since I'm no Jamaican accent expert, the only thing I can draw upon is when British actors do an American accent. I feel if they stay in character and try their best, I usually give it a pass so it doesn't take me out of the film. I'm glad you maintained a professional distance, it would've been easy to make jokes, and like I said, I really like these scenes. Thank you.
Meet Joe Black is one of the best most beautiful movies of all time. But did you know it's a remake? Of a movie called "Death takes a holiday." In fact in this scene he tells her that hes on holiday lol
Now, that is a fun fact that I did not know!
@@YaadPikni yeah so cool! Ever see the old movie with Cary Grant "The preacher's wife?" Great hidden gem of a film
@@RossIsFine I haven't, but I did watch The Preacher's Wife starring Denzel Washington and Whitney Houston wayyyy back in the day. You sound like quite the old film connoisseur!
This woman doin too much drama over this. She sounds no different😂
I hope you dont let these ridiculous comments get to you. Its like people have no idea what theyre watching. Great video.
omg, I love that bit in the film, even if I do end up in tears!... so interesting. though I would like to think of it as maybe an 'Older' version of the language?
It's like I'm from Yorkshire in the UK, and we have about 10 diffrent accents in just this part of England. and that not counting OLD old Yorkshire that even I struggle to understand... BUT. my point is. in my Yorkshire accent we NEVER say 'The', like "I'm going to the shop." it would be "M' gonn T shop" (sometime we dont even say the hard T. but, the rest of the UK think the hard 'T' = the, and it doesnt it = 'to'... I figured we dont say 'the' when I was watching a comedian taking the piss out of a Yorkshire accent, and he said "T lion, T witch and T wardrobe!".. and my brain came sreaching to a holt. I've always called it "Lion, Wich un Wardrobe." the 'un' being more a gutteral noise, and no T in witch, more pronounced 'Which'
Arck, sorry for rant, but I now how it is when ppl get your accent wrong, after all, also being British, we have to deal with american bitchering our accents XD
The guy was only as good as his dialect coach and the script writers. He did the best he could with what he was given.
Maybe death/ Brad Pitt only visited Jamaican vacation and didn’t have time to pick up the full pronunciation. So death kinda wings it with what he gots ;)
Irie is a slang from the yester-years kept alive by the tourism industry. Normal modern Jamaicans can live their whole lives never saying that word, lol
Agreed! I'm basically a middle-aged woman, born and raised in town, and I don't think I've heard it used in my lifetime 🤔
Would love to see more Patois content from a Jamaican like this..
Yeah, they would only hire a linguist if the accent was for a central part of the story/film, and they would only have him seriously practice it if it was a central part of his character, because time is money and money is time. Both of which are at a premium for film sets. So this was probably and instance of "Hey Brad, we want Joe to meet a Jamaican woman who he befriends and you will have two scenes with her, please learn the Jamaican accent for those two scenes". And then its up to the actor/Brad Pitt to do as much or as little research on his own as he can. His character wasnt Jamaican, so there would be no justification to put any time and money into him learning the accent for two scenes with a minor character. So he probably listened to a few tapes/watched a few videos and maaaybe talked to a few people, and then when they filmed she helped him as much as she could. And then you have to compound it with the fact that maybe there were takes where he did a more accurate job but they didnt use it for one reason or another or directed him to do it in a way that wasnt accurate but was more of what they wanted. I think that the instance of "iree" and his over-emphasizing that word was more of a directing choice, to make it so that Joe was trying to comfort her. So I think what they did was they used "iree" in place of "everything is going to be fine!" which could be said in a more emphasized tone because if he had said it in the more casual tone, while it would have been more correct, to American audiences it might have come off as too casual.
How do you "everything", in Jamaican English?
Great video and analysis. You should do more. Very informative and enjoyable. Lois Kelly-Miller stole the show with her excellent acting. BP doesn't have the experience and talent LKM has....what a performance!
She was truly a phenomenal actress.
Thank you so much for this.
I guess the question is, is this a case of lack of effort and consideration for the accent, or an honest attempt to represent it that fell short because of a lack of practice or ability?
From what you’ve said it seems to me like an attempt was made, but it still falls short. That seems better than many of the overblown stereotypical
impersonations that are found elsewhere.
Would love to see a tier-list vid!
Fascinating video, thanks. But as an English speaking Englishman I have to say, that there is also an excruciating trail of debris along the road between Hollywood and the convincing English accent. Going back the other way is as bad.
I have family and friends across the globe (including Japan). We all tend to crash land some words and phrases from each other’s dialects. To me that is a natural and inevitable part of a relaxed conversation. I could tell a bunch of stories that I’m sure you would identify with about speaking French or English or American or Indian English.
The question I want to ask is ‘What is the character trying to do?’ He recognises the very wonderful Lois Kelly-Miller as Jamaican and tries to make her feel at ease. I don’t think he’s trying to be Jamaican. The clangers are a natural part of that.
I don’t know if thay changed the character arc for Scott Baluka in NCIS New Orleans, but his accent initially made ME wince. When it was clarified that he was from out of state but loved being in the city, his mash-up made sense.
For 35 years I have lived with an American in the UK. She still sounds American to me, but she sounds English to the friends she was at school with. It’s a mix.
Thank you for sharing how good Brad Pitt was. But it’s a rare actor that can nail an accent that different to their own. Don’t sweat it, there will always be Dick Van Dyke in Marry Poppins.
I appreciate the intention of judging how well Brad Pitt spoke with a Jamaican accent, but I think it over-analyzes the intention of the film maker, but that is just my opinion. I think the film does quite well what was intended, that death, or the grim reaper, would be able to speak to the nearly departed in their own language/dialect to help make them less anxious; in essence, death was not obeah man, he was simply the escort into "the next place" as Joe Black asserted. A sweet scene in a very good movie, almost a great movie, were it not for the heavy handed corporate takeover subplot which was just necessary to take Drew out of the picture (Yay! Drew is evil, therefore Susan is still virtuous).